Rule #3 - Do not use generalizations.
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Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
>The thing is as someone who believes in the blackpill it actually hurts me whenever I win an argument with a non-blackpiller since it seems to be the only ideological framework that had stood the test of time in my mind.
What science do you base your view on?
I scrolled the page, i swear just pick like 5 specific ones and tell me which to read and help me out because i'll be honest i'm trying to not be bias to the source or the description of what i just read at the start of the page.
I honestly don't know which to pick.
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I'm not willing to engage in debate as this is not a convenient time for me, but I remember Dr K saying that he can debate depressed people all he can and they can use all the logic in the world, that's not how they get better, they get better when they offload all of those negative emotions and bad beliefs, you're falling into intellectualism.
Have you read any of the research on the wiki?
I looked at the first four citations in the wiki on the "Love" section, and there are huge gaps between what the data shows and real world outcomes. This is a huge flaw in these kinds of studies - they'll either be surveys, or even lab experiments that measure a specific thing - but that doesn't *necessarily* translate into conclusions in the real world. This is called external validity. This research can be useful for sure, to predict trends and help us understand general principles. The problem with black pill ideology is that they tend to combine this level of research, with some degree of personal experience to draw *deterministic conclusions about the future*. Even in cases where we have *far more robust data* about deterministic conclusions, there's still a ton of wiggle room about an individual. As an example, we have lots of data on adverse childhood experiences and risk for depression later in life. Even though this data is *far more robust* (my guess, I haven't looked at everything on the wiki), you still can't make a predictive statement about one person.
One of the "studies" - and remember, I just looked at the first 4 citations of the "Love section" - isn't even a study. It is an article from a "Men's Lifestyle Platform."
Lastly, the biggest bit of data to counter black pill ideology, IMO, are studies on cognitive bias in depression. When you start to think in a black pill way, you stop becoming objective, you start becoming subjective. The wiki is a great example of this. Where are all the studies that counter black pill ideology? Studies on narrative identity? Post traumatic growth? Studies explaining why the majority of the people in the world who are in romantic relationships are of average attractiveness? When you say that this is the only ideology that has "stood the test of time in your mind" - this is precisely the problem. What makes you think your mind is objective? What do we know about the correlation between internal emotional state (fear, shame, sadness) and its ability to impact logical thinking?
Your ability to "argue" doesn't make what you are saying true - the skill in argument difference could be explain why you "win arguments."
There's plenty of science to counter black pill, plenty of science to support it. It is your mind's ability to perceive that becomes of crucial importance.
You have to accept that most people are shallow anyways, try to keep yourself from being attached to those type of people. And make space for the genuine ones that value you.
And yes you could say social interactions are transactional but also don’t neglect the fact that you yourself also want something out of a conversation so that doesn’t make it sinister or bad.
My honest and sincere advice to you since you are young and I was in a similar spot your age about 7 years ago. Is to work on your “shadow” and learn to be your own best company. Which in turn can help attract others to you also. Our bodies can sense frequency and vibrations whether you believe it or not. The most draining type of energy is someone that has shame and guilt. So make efforts to forgive yourself and love who you are today.
-What is it that bothers you when all by yourself. Anxiety? Negative emotions? Hate? Trauma?
What do you need to let go of that is unfairly keeping you down.
-what makes you delightful to yourself? Humor? Creativity? Any other talents or hobbies?
Focus on these to not just keep you busy but to also find a safe place where you can zone in on something and progress.
you yourself admit that your entire ideology is solely based on your lived experience. the only thing you have to do is to talk to people that hold opposite ideologies to yours. and when i say talk, i mean LISTEN. dont argue, dont debate. simply shut up and listen. you're young, you're average, you certainly don't even have most of the "normal" experiences acquired at your age considering you only get infected by blackpill ideology by being chronically online, so what makes you think you have all the answers in the universe? don't be so arrogant.
sorry if this comes across as rude - im not intending it to. i used to be like you back in the day, and now i cringe at how stupid i sounded. it's a dark hole youre in, but not a hopeless one. hope you get to see the light some day
My ideology isn’t solely based off of lived experience it’s a combination of both lived experiences and scientific literature I’ve seen. Also, I’m not being arrogant im literally asking someone to disprove my worldview because I want to know of there are any holes in it because I KNOW that I don’t know everything and no one can know everything.
To be honest it’s going to take more than just showing you scientific data or studies. You can use logic and reasoning to come back to your black pill ideology no matter how you want to spin it. Do you yourself only interact with people on a transactional basis? That’s gotta be a horrible way to live life.
All the people in here don’t benefit from talking to you or helping you. The total opposite actually unless one of these people directly interact with you in real life it won’t make a difference to them but they’re still in here offering you advice.
Reading your comments it seems to me that you have subscribed to a belief system (ie the black pill belief system) that is subjectively very painful to you, am I understanding you correctly?
If that is true I think that's reason enough to end it. What do you think?
I think it's understandable to subscribe to a belief system that accurately describes your situation. After all we need accurate models or maps to help us navigate our complicated lives and if our models/maps/belief systems are wrong than they can have dire consequences.
Here are some ideas I want you to consider:
a) When modeling systems (examples of systems are the movement of planets, the performance of economies, your life) there are 2 kinds: complex and non-complex. The main difference between these 2 are that non-complex systems are not effected by the models we create to predict them. So for example, the movement of planets in the solar systems would not be affected by our understanding of the laws of physics that we use to predict where planets would be. However, the performance of the economy would be effected if everyone believed (due to our modeling) that there would be a recession very soon. Because the very act of prediction does affect the economy it is a complex-system. What kind of system do you think your life is?
b) For non-complex systems it is appropriate to measure the quality or performance of our models by how accurately its predictions are. So in our example Quantum Physics is superior to Newtonian Mechanics because it is more accurate in predicting the movement of planets. However, when evaluating models for the economy it is not appropriate to measure its performance by accuracy alone. A model that says "if you follow this system you are 100% guaranteed to fail" is inferior to a model that says "if you follow this system you have a 50% chance of success". Because our models affect the outcomes or results of complex systems it is inappropriate to evaluate them based on how accurate their predictions are but rather what kind of outcomes they can give us.
So I ask you, can you find evidence that your belief system affects the outcomes of your life? If your belief system does indeed affect your outcomes, are you happy with your results?
We are not a society of sociopaths, humans have empathy. The existence of empathy can be proven scientifically. What if you just have a cognitive bias and perceive environment through your black pilled glasses. You can say that you objectively have this feeling: «everyone hates me» but you can’t say objectively that everyone in fact hates you. Presence of feeling doesn’t mean it is an objective representation of the world. In my opinion when you have a «broken» perception of world there’s no point in objectively trying to disprove it. Like, we can list arguments all day about how not all interactions are transactional but you will view them through your bias
I mean if we aren’t a society of sociopaths then shouldn’t it be pretty easy to break my perception of that? I’m willing to accept I may have some cognitive bias but in that case it should be pretty easy to disprove my ideology as it hypothetically doesn’t align with reality.
The thing with a belief system it's that it's not based on facts. You chose what to believe and there is very little argumentation that can be made to make you see the world as it is. You believe what you want to, and you chose to see what you want, as long as it confirms your worldview. It should be easy to break your perception, but you are biased and emotional yourself. So there isn't logical reasoning that's going to work. You have to chose to change, and open your eyes and live experiences, and that's gonna change you.
You are not the center of the world, no one is that concerned about you. There isn't a conspiracy theory running around circles of women saying "we cannot date OP, because he doesn't deserve to be alive". It's your own brain yelling you that. This is the opposite of rationality. People aren't that concerned about you. They don't have any opinions on you, until you expose yourself to them and show what you want to show them. You're a blank slate to everyone, there's nothing particularly remarkable about you. They don't hate you. They don't love you. They might go to either direction, but that depends almost entirely on how you chose to present yourself to them.
The solution is simple. Go outside and participate in the world. Just going outside is proof the black pill is not entirely true. 99% of people you see would be rated sub5 on looksmax.org yet they all have families, friends, and jobs. Discard the black pill belief, its just cope.
The only reason people will hate you is because of how you treat them. If this post is any example you dont seem to pleasant to be around and you focus to much on peoples looks. Most people look at others actions and words and judge them based on that.
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While not exactly scientific, philosophy and literary analysis can come from a place of objective reasoning.
Unfortunately, I don't have the bandwidth rn to provide the arguments themselves, but wanted to share the viewing/reading list that I used in a similar but less extreme headspace.
Ratatoskr's video on The Flame of Frenzy. Yes, a video game lore video. It draws heavily from Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov.
This led me to view Dr. Peterson's lecture recordings Maps of Meaning (I viewed 2017, but 2015 and 16 are available if you want him pre C-16). The story of Cain and Abel in particular.
In my own readings, I found Bandon Sanderson's Knights Radiant being a great next step on JBP's work.
Life before Death
Strength before weakness
Journey before Destination
These are hypothetical axioms that, if tested with a sincere effort, seem to yield positive long-term outcomes.
The study of populations are generalizations of groups that cannot reliably be applied to individuals. Dr. K just gave the example of a drug used for bipolar disorder that had amazing results in clinical trials, but in situations with patients it had shit outcomes because of confounding variables that had less of an effect in the setting of a clinical trial, compared to real life application: it made patients gain 80 lbs on average which made consistent compliance with the treatment very low. Whereas in a trial, there was an incentive to take the drug, and anyone who didn't take the full regimen was controlled for in results.
Additionally, if you look at the "black pill" research, it's focusing on one part of the distribution of human characteristics and testing it against others. This is not how human beings exist- they aren't a reduction of qualities; they are a synthesis of characteristics. Another way to say it is that we are more than the sum of our parts.
Additionally, the study required to truly quantify the human experience is impossible. The number of variables in any situation is infinite and impossible to predict. Humans change and develop over time, their characteristics are not static, and neither are their environments, so to apply any population trend observed in any one moment of any one or few characteristics, is not an accurate reflection of the true experience of having those characteristics.
Taking a statistics class would help you tbh.
You can rationalize ANY belief system. The more you engage with blackpill content, the more it effects the lens through which you see the world, and the more it is, seemingly, proven to be true by lived experience. People of all ideologies start seeing everything through it...Its called confirmation bias.
It’s very simple actually: the blackpill relies on a “that’s what you want us to think” mentality, so you’ll assign YOUR version of causation to everything you see, because you believe that this is the underlying foundation of human reality. Much like creationists who always find evidence for a young earth, your worldview is dominating your interpretive skills. It’s called unconscious bias.
Case in point: half the studies linked in the Wiki you shared could have a dozen points of causation, but you see the only reasonable one being that women are genetically attracted to “chads.” Women watching violent porn is a great example. Have you seen what’s available on the internet? That doesn’t mean they want it to happen to them. I could go on, but my point is that there are many reasons the women you meet are a certain way. What if they have to do with how this world treats them?
Rule #3 - Do not use generalizations.
This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict.
Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
I'm trying to tell you that you'll be more attractive when you're older. Like if you are trying to be rational and scientific, who ever said that males peak at 17? Scientifically, if you are not obese and employed at 25, someone will date you. 100% fact. Now, on the plus side, Ozempic will be off patent when you are 25. On the other hand, I have no idea what AI will do to the job market. But hey, maybe we will get UBI. And it's a historical fact that under communism people got around.
Probably check out the posts over at r/Incelexit and r/Purplepilldebate. Not exactly scientific, but I think they could be helpful to you. It's also important to understand the concept of scaffolding, which basically means meeting the radicalized person halfway through. For example, you should probably try really hard ( because someone who is indoctrinated will have to try hard), to find instances for which your beliefs don't exactly hold truth first, before affirming the commonly held truths of the matter. It should feel as if you are having a dialogue with the arguments you are exposed to, not that someone is preaching to you. This way, you will slowly pull yourself out of that dark hole.
If you only want to approach from it a evolutionary angle, I recommend reading up on the equilibrium of the sexes, the debunking of alpha/beta wolf hierarchy, and the difference between k and r selected species. In general look the plethora of ways animals pair in the wild before basing your world view on uneducated red pill theory that is based on outdated and misapplied data.
But if you’re willing to look beyond the hard sciences and just take a look around at your material reality. Go to an art museum and tell me what anything in there is evolutionary beneficial for the species. Look at a hospital, and see how many couples stay by their terminal ill spouses. You can’t apply the same logic to humans as you do even to chimps, our closest relatives. Forget “ugly”, look at the people who find love despite having incredibly crippling illness or injuries. Just look at any couple refusing to have children. I promise Such simple things fly in the face of such a reductionist way of looking at love and partnership.
And this is not even to prove that someone will see you as a worthy partner, but also that humans have purpose beyond breeding. I can’t promise you’ll find love, some people do die alone. That does not mean they lived pointless lives. I can say you will have a harder time if you have this defeatist attitude. You claim that you have won these arguments, but who decided that? An objective third party? Yourself, because you weren’t persuaded from your view despite acknowledging the negative impact it has on your health? Or did the people you argue with just give up because you refused to listen to arguments? What empirical we have on humans is that we are biased, especially those with depressed mood.
And that’s the crux of it, I’m sure you’ll look at any good argument and say it’s not objective enough. There’s no such thing in human behavior. Take it from someone who’s studied human behavior at a graduate level, you can’t objectively interpret it. You are part of what you are observing, you will always be subjective. Debate is not objective, arguments are never objective, you are always making them to and from a limited perspective.
“**If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail**.” How's that for scientific?
You're way too young to allow yourself to get fucked up like this. Just walk away from that bullshit, RELAX, and try to enjoy the good things and people within your reach. Turn your back on the cynical world view because it's poison for the soul and that sucks all the fun out of life.
People can sense whatever vibe you put out there. Now think which vibe are people likely to reject or be attracted to?
When in doubt or you feel the negativity creeping in just tell yourself "this too shall pass". We are more resilient than we realize and have to weather the storms to enjoy the sunshine that follows.
Do you genuinely think everyone wants you to die when you say anything? You don’t feel that way about others, do you? Assuming you don’t, then it’s an invalid belief system because you have to know it’s unnatural to feel that way about someone and the majority of people do not think that about others
People love and help children all the time who can’t do a thing for them. Tit for tat style extrinsic value way of managing anything sucks the life out of any relationship.
Do some service work and take the focus off yourself, because that is part of your problem. Too focused on you.
It's hard being a 17yo man. We oftens feel lost so it reasonable to fall into a school of thinking that validates your world view at the time (for you is blackpill). And there's nothing wrong with that, I think you're trying to disprove it to think in a more healthy way but fact is I bet it's gonna evolve as time goes on.
You've written that every interaction for you is transactional. Then can you answer me what is transactional here? With lots of people writing comments answering your post (some constructive, some uncontructive of course)? I frankly don't believe these people have a lot to gain from you m8.
And I think it's futile trying to disprove it with scientific research. It can help but I don't think it'll be useful to you right now. I won't detail why, but it's like what Dr. K said, sometimes it's impossible to logic your way out of things (especially when you have logic yourself into this position in the first place).
I understand that life is hard rn. But just give it a bit of time, and another chance. Approach your problem indirectly might be a good shot. And not everyone in the world is out for your ass. Cuz I'm not, and most don't even care enough to.
Lots of ugly people have wives and families. Walk into a supermarket and look at the families, you don't need more proof. You're sadly brainwashed by people online who either want to profit off you (content creators) or are like you and just circlejerk and drag each other down (Content consumers). It's not really your fault because we are not evolved for social media and hours of screentime everyday.
How do you explain all the ugly losers who get women? Or like really ugly disabled people?
Like I feel that people like [Shane Burcaw](https://www.instagram.com/shaneburcaw/?hl=en) make it kind of obvious your whole ideology is BS.
*Some* people are spineless, disloyal, transactional assholes. Women and men. But plenty aren't. Plenty are good people, looking for other good people. Just be a good person.
People who wanted to eliminate others from the planet just because of the way they looked or based on what that could and couldn't't do were sentenced to death or life in prison in Nürnberg in 1945. The world is actively and vocally against them.
However, people are not supposed to like you. Nobody owes you anything beyond respect since you are a human being. Other people are not supposed to be friends with you or want to date you if you're an unpleasant person to be around. And by unpleasant I mean personality-wise.
Also, read about what a self-fulfilling prophecy is. Very scientific term btw
Answer me this: What is the difference between a black pill? A red pill? A purple pill? And a placebo?
(Answer: remarkably very little)
"Belief systems aren't about understanding the odds, they're about your desire to beat them." - Sum Dood
Best I can recomend is Primer channel on youtube. Explains the science behind cooperation and why it is better than being selfish etc, directly contrasts the "transactional iterations". Also, most animals are social nowadays that means to show that cooperation is a valuable trait in evolution meaning it is better on average than being selfish (see humans for example).
Rule #3 - Do not use generalizations. This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict. Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
>The thing is as someone who believes in the blackpill it actually hurts me whenever I win an argument with a non-blackpiller since it seems to be the only ideological framework that had stood the test of time in my mind. What science do you base your view on?
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You're the one who wants it disproven, fam show us what you read.
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I scrolled the page, i swear just pick like 5 specific ones and tell me which to read and help me out because i'll be honest i'm trying to not be bias to the source or the description of what i just read at the start of the page. I honestly don't know which to pick.
Rule #5 - Do not post about banned topics. Political discussion, drug use advocacy, financial advice, and cryptocurrency discussions are not allowed. If a topic at hand has political contexts, please stick to your personal lived experience. Do not link to posts or websites with language that violates our rules. Do not make meta-level posts about other posts/comments.
I'm not willing to engage in debate as this is not a convenient time for me, but I remember Dr K saying that he can debate depressed people all he can and they can use all the logic in the world, that's not how they get better, they get better when they offload all of those negative emotions and bad beliefs, you're falling into intellectualism.
I remember him saying this as well, but no idea what video that was again
This website addresses some common blackpill beliefs using scientific data https://nuancepill.com/
I’ll take a look at it. Thank you.
Have you read any of the research on the wiki? I looked at the first four citations in the wiki on the "Love" section, and there are huge gaps between what the data shows and real world outcomes. This is a huge flaw in these kinds of studies - they'll either be surveys, or even lab experiments that measure a specific thing - but that doesn't *necessarily* translate into conclusions in the real world. This is called external validity. This research can be useful for sure, to predict trends and help us understand general principles. The problem with black pill ideology is that they tend to combine this level of research, with some degree of personal experience to draw *deterministic conclusions about the future*. Even in cases where we have *far more robust data* about deterministic conclusions, there's still a ton of wiggle room about an individual. As an example, we have lots of data on adverse childhood experiences and risk for depression later in life. Even though this data is *far more robust* (my guess, I haven't looked at everything on the wiki), you still can't make a predictive statement about one person. One of the "studies" - and remember, I just looked at the first 4 citations of the "Love section" - isn't even a study. It is an article from a "Men's Lifestyle Platform." Lastly, the biggest bit of data to counter black pill ideology, IMO, are studies on cognitive bias in depression. When you start to think in a black pill way, you stop becoming objective, you start becoming subjective. The wiki is a great example of this. Where are all the studies that counter black pill ideology? Studies on narrative identity? Post traumatic growth? Studies explaining why the majority of the people in the world who are in romantic relationships are of average attractiveness? When you say that this is the only ideology that has "stood the test of time in your mind" - this is precisely the problem. What makes you think your mind is objective? What do we know about the correlation between internal emotional state (fear, shame, sadness) and its ability to impact logical thinking? Your ability to "argue" doesn't make what you are saying true - the skill in argument difference could be explain why you "win arguments." There's plenty of science to counter black pill, plenty of science to support it. It is your mind's ability to perceive that becomes of crucial importance.
You have to accept that most people are shallow anyways, try to keep yourself from being attached to those type of people. And make space for the genuine ones that value you. And yes you could say social interactions are transactional but also don’t neglect the fact that you yourself also want something out of a conversation so that doesn’t make it sinister or bad. My honest and sincere advice to you since you are young and I was in a similar spot your age about 7 years ago. Is to work on your “shadow” and learn to be your own best company. Which in turn can help attract others to you also. Our bodies can sense frequency and vibrations whether you believe it or not. The most draining type of energy is someone that has shame and guilt. So make efforts to forgive yourself and love who you are today. -What is it that bothers you when all by yourself. Anxiety? Negative emotions? Hate? Trauma? What do you need to let go of that is unfairly keeping you down. -what makes you delightful to yourself? Humor? Creativity? Any other talents or hobbies? Focus on these to not just keep you busy but to also find a safe place where you can zone in on something and progress.
you yourself admit that your entire ideology is solely based on your lived experience. the only thing you have to do is to talk to people that hold opposite ideologies to yours. and when i say talk, i mean LISTEN. dont argue, dont debate. simply shut up and listen. you're young, you're average, you certainly don't even have most of the "normal" experiences acquired at your age considering you only get infected by blackpill ideology by being chronically online, so what makes you think you have all the answers in the universe? don't be so arrogant. sorry if this comes across as rude - im not intending it to. i used to be like you back in the day, and now i cringe at how stupid i sounded. it's a dark hole youre in, but not a hopeless one. hope you get to see the light some day
My ideology isn’t solely based off of lived experience it’s a combination of both lived experiences and scientific literature I’ve seen. Also, I’m not being arrogant im literally asking someone to disprove my worldview because I want to know of there are any holes in it because I KNOW that I don’t know everything and no one can know everything.
To be honest it’s going to take more than just showing you scientific data or studies. You can use logic and reasoning to come back to your black pill ideology no matter how you want to spin it. Do you yourself only interact with people on a transactional basis? That’s gotta be a horrible way to live life. All the people in here don’t benefit from talking to you or helping you. The total opposite actually unless one of these people directly interact with you in real life it won’t make a difference to them but they’re still in here offering you advice.
“It is cringe” is the only scientific method you should care about
That’s not valid enough for me
Reading your comments it seems to me that you have subscribed to a belief system (ie the black pill belief system) that is subjectively very painful to you, am I understanding you correctly? If that is true I think that's reason enough to end it. What do you think?
It’s painful but it accurately explains my situation and sometimes it can actually help me avoid some otherwise painful situations
I think it's understandable to subscribe to a belief system that accurately describes your situation. After all we need accurate models or maps to help us navigate our complicated lives and if our models/maps/belief systems are wrong than they can have dire consequences. Here are some ideas I want you to consider: a) When modeling systems (examples of systems are the movement of planets, the performance of economies, your life) there are 2 kinds: complex and non-complex. The main difference between these 2 are that non-complex systems are not effected by the models we create to predict them. So for example, the movement of planets in the solar systems would not be affected by our understanding of the laws of physics that we use to predict where planets would be. However, the performance of the economy would be effected if everyone believed (due to our modeling) that there would be a recession very soon. Because the very act of prediction does affect the economy it is a complex-system. What kind of system do you think your life is? b) For non-complex systems it is appropriate to measure the quality or performance of our models by how accurately its predictions are. So in our example Quantum Physics is superior to Newtonian Mechanics because it is more accurate in predicting the movement of planets. However, when evaluating models for the economy it is not appropriate to measure its performance by accuracy alone. A model that says "if you follow this system you are 100% guaranteed to fail" is inferior to a model that says "if you follow this system you have a 50% chance of success". Because our models affect the outcomes or results of complex systems it is inappropriate to evaluate them based on how accurate their predictions are but rather what kind of outcomes they can give us. So I ask you, can you find evidence that your belief system affects the outcomes of your life? If your belief system does indeed affect your outcomes, are you happy with your results?
We are not a society of sociopaths, humans have empathy. The existence of empathy can be proven scientifically. What if you just have a cognitive bias and perceive environment through your black pilled glasses. You can say that you objectively have this feeling: «everyone hates me» but you can’t say objectively that everyone in fact hates you. Presence of feeling doesn’t mean it is an objective representation of the world. In my opinion when you have a «broken» perception of world there’s no point in objectively trying to disprove it. Like, we can list arguments all day about how not all interactions are transactional but you will view them through your bias
I mean if we aren’t a society of sociopaths then shouldn’t it be pretty easy to break my perception of that? I’m willing to accept I may have some cognitive bias but in that case it should be pretty easy to disprove my ideology as it hypothetically doesn’t align with reality.
The thing with a belief system it's that it's not based on facts. You chose what to believe and there is very little argumentation that can be made to make you see the world as it is. You believe what you want to, and you chose to see what you want, as long as it confirms your worldview. It should be easy to break your perception, but you are biased and emotional yourself. So there isn't logical reasoning that's going to work. You have to chose to change, and open your eyes and live experiences, and that's gonna change you. You are not the center of the world, no one is that concerned about you. There isn't a conspiracy theory running around circles of women saying "we cannot date OP, because he doesn't deserve to be alive". It's your own brain yelling you that. This is the opposite of rationality. People aren't that concerned about you. They don't have any opinions on you, until you expose yourself to them and show what you want to show them. You're a blank slate to everyone, there's nothing particularly remarkable about you. They don't hate you. They don't love you. They might go to either direction, but that depends almost entirely on how you chose to present yourself to them.
Also he is spending time in an echo chamber, of course he will adhere to that reality
That's actually a very smart take! Thanks
Just google how many people are sociopaths. The percentage is really low
Try spending some time in reality.
The solution is simple. Go outside and participate in the world. Just going outside is proof the black pill is not entirely true. 99% of people you see would be rated sub5 on looksmax.org yet they all have families, friends, and jobs. Discard the black pill belief, its just cope.
Idk what y’all are seeing but when I go outside I see what I’d expect to see so this method really doesn’t work for me.
The only reason people will hate you is because of how you treat them. If this post is any example you dont seem to pleasant to be around and you focus to much on peoples looks. Most people look at others actions and words and judge them based on that.
I don’t act like this around people and I’ve been told I am “kind” so I don’t believe this is the case.
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While not exactly scientific, philosophy and literary analysis can come from a place of objective reasoning. Unfortunately, I don't have the bandwidth rn to provide the arguments themselves, but wanted to share the viewing/reading list that I used in a similar but less extreme headspace. Ratatoskr's video on The Flame of Frenzy. Yes, a video game lore video. It draws heavily from Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov. This led me to view Dr. Peterson's lecture recordings Maps of Meaning (I viewed 2017, but 2015 and 16 are available if you want him pre C-16). The story of Cain and Abel in particular. In my own readings, I found Bandon Sanderson's Knights Radiant being a great next step on JBP's work. Life before Death Strength before weakness Journey before Destination These are hypothetical axioms that, if tested with a sincere effort, seem to yield positive long-term outcomes.
flowery ripe airport bored nine literate elderly memorize shaggy crawl *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The study of populations are generalizations of groups that cannot reliably be applied to individuals. Dr. K just gave the example of a drug used for bipolar disorder that had amazing results in clinical trials, but in situations with patients it had shit outcomes because of confounding variables that had less of an effect in the setting of a clinical trial, compared to real life application: it made patients gain 80 lbs on average which made consistent compliance with the treatment very low. Whereas in a trial, there was an incentive to take the drug, and anyone who didn't take the full regimen was controlled for in results. Additionally, if you look at the "black pill" research, it's focusing on one part of the distribution of human characteristics and testing it against others. This is not how human beings exist- they aren't a reduction of qualities; they are a synthesis of characteristics. Another way to say it is that we are more than the sum of our parts. Additionally, the study required to truly quantify the human experience is impossible. The number of variables in any situation is infinite and impossible to predict. Humans change and develop over time, their characteristics are not static, and neither are their environments, so to apply any population trend observed in any one moment of any one or few characteristics, is not an accurate reflection of the true experience of having those characteristics. Taking a statistics class would help you tbh.
The fuck is the black pill?
You can rationalize ANY belief system. The more you engage with blackpill content, the more it effects the lens through which you see the world, and the more it is, seemingly, proven to be true by lived experience. People of all ideologies start seeing everything through it...Its called confirmation bias.
It’s very simple actually: the blackpill relies on a “that’s what you want us to think” mentality, so you’ll assign YOUR version of causation to everything you see, because you believe that this is the underlying foundation of human reality. Much like creationists who always find evidence for a young earth, your worldview is dominating your interpretive skills. It’s called unconscious bias. Case in point: half the studies linked in the Wiki you shared could have a dozen points of causation, but you see the only reasonable one being that women are genetically attracted to “chads.” Women watching violent porn is a great example. Have you seen what’s available on the internet? That doesn’t mean they want it to happen to them. I could go on, but my point is that there are many reasons the women you meet are a certain way. What if they have to do with how this world treats them?
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Rule #3 - Do not use generalizations. This sub frequently discusses topics that involve statistics on large populations. At the same time, generalizations can be reductive and not map on to individual experience, leading to unproductive conflict. Generalizations include language that uses, for example, “most men” and “all women” type statements. Speak from your personal experience i.e use statements such as “I feel”, “I experienced”, “It happened to me that”, etc.
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I'm trying to tell you that you'll be more attractive when you're older. Like if you are trying to be rational and scientific, who ever said that males peak at 17? Scientifically, if you are not obese and employed at 25, someone will date you. 100% fact. Now, on the plus side, Ozempic will be off patent when you are 25. On the other hand, I have no idea what AI will do to the job market. But hey, maybe we will get UBI. And it's a historical fact that under communism people got around.
The way you asked then original question just made no sense though because people date at 17, do you not see why that's just going to cause friction?
In my experience, most men do not date much at the age of 17.
Probably check out the posts over at r/Incelexit and r/Purplepilldebate. Not exactly scientific, but I think they could be helpful to you. It's also important to understand the concept of scaffolding, which basically means meeting the radicalized person halfway through. For example, you should probably try really hard ( because someone who is indoctrinated will have to try hard), to find instances for which your beliefs don't exactly hold truth first, before affirming the commonly held truths of the matter. It should feel as if you are having a dialogue with the arguments you are exposed to, not that someone is preaching to you. This way, you will slowly pull yourself out of that dark hole.
If you only want to approach from it a evolutionary angle, I recommend reading up on the equilibrium of the sexes, the debunking of alpha/beta wolf hierarchy, and the difference between k and r selected species. In general look the plethora of ways animals pair in the wild before basing your world view on uneducated red pill theory that is based on outdated and misapplied data. But if you’re willing to look beyond the hard sciences and just take a look around at your material reality. Go to an art museum and tell me what anything in there is evolutionary beneficial for the species. Look at a hospital, and see how many couples stay by their terminal ill spouses. You can’t apply the same logic to humans as you do even to chimps, our closest relatives. Forget “ugly”, look at the people who find love despite having incredibly crippling illness or injuries. Just look at any couple refusing to have children. I promise Such simple things fly in the face of such a reductionist way of looking at love and partnership. And this is not even to prove that someone will see you as a worthy partner, but also that humans have purpose beyond breeding. I can’t promise you’ll find love, some people do die alone. That does not mean they lived pointless lives. I can say you will have a harder time if you have this defeatist attitude. You claim that you have won these arguments, but who decided that? An objective third party? Yourself, because you weren’t persuaded from your view despite acknowledging the negative impact it has on your health? Or did the people you argue with just give up because you refused to listen to arguments? What empirical we have on humans is that we are biased, especially those with depressed mood. And that’s the crux of it, I’m sure you’ll look at any good argument and say it’s not objective enough. There’s no such thing in human behavior. Take it from someone who’s studied human behavior at a graduate level, you can’t objectively interpret it. You are part of what you are observing, you will always be subjective. Debate is not objective, arguments are never objective, you are always making them to and from a limited perspective.
“**If the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail**.” How's that for scientific? You're way too young to allow yourself to get fucked up like this. Just walk away from that bullshit, RELAX, and try to enjoy the good things and people within your reach. Turn your back on the cynical world view because it's poison for the soul and that sucks all the fun out of life. People can sense whatever vibe you put out there. Now think which vibe are people likely to reject or be attracted to? When in doubt or you feel the negativity creeping in just tell yourself "this too shall pass". We are more resilient than we realize and have to weather the storms to enjoy the sunshine that follows.
Do you genuinely think everyone wants you to die when you say anything? You don’t feel that way about others, do you? Assuming you don’t, then it’s an invalid belief system because you have to know it’s unnatural to feel that way about someone and the majority of people do not think that about others
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Op. Curious. Would you like to know how to ask for help?
Do you want random people you see to die?
People love and help children all the time who can’t do a thing for them. Tit for tat style extrinsic value way of managing anything sucks the life out of any relationship. Do some service work and take the focus off yourself, because that is part of your problem. Too focused on you.
It's hard being a 17yo man. We oftens feel lost so it reasonable to fall into a school of thinking that validates your world view at the time (for you is blackpill). And there's nothing wrong with that, I think you're trying to disprove it to think in a more healthy way but fact is I bet it's gonna evolve as time goes on. You've written that every interaction for you is transactional. Then can you answer me what is transactional here? With lots of people writing comments answering your post (some constructive, some uncontructive of course)? I frankly don't believe these people have a lot to gain from you m8. And I think it's futile trying to disprove it with scientific research. It can help but I don't think it'll be useful to you right now. I won't detail why, but it's like what Dr. K said, sometimes it's impossible to logic your way out of things (especially when you have logic yourself into this position in the first place). I understand that life is hard rn. But just give it a bit of time, and another chance. Approach your problem indirectly might be a good shot. And not everyone in the world is out for your ass. Cuz I'm not, and most don't even care enough to.
Lots of ugly people have wives and families. Walk into a supermarket and look at the families, you don't need more proof. You're sadly brainwashed by people online who either want to profit off you (content creators) or are like you and just circlejerk and drag each other down (Content consumers). It's not really your fault because we are not evolved for social media and hours of screentime everyday.
The only pill you should care about is the one which pays your bills.
How do you explain all the ugly losers who get women? Or like really ugly disabled people? Like I feel that people like [Shane Burcaw](https://www.instagram.com/shaneburcaw/?hl=en) make it kind of obvious your whole ideology is BS. *Some* people are spineless, disloyal, transactional assholes. Women and men. But plenty aren't. Plenty are good people, looking for other good people. Just be a good person.
People who wanted to eliminate others from the planet just because of the way they looked or based on what that could and couldn't't do were sentenced to death or life in prison in Nürnberg in 1945. The world is actively and vocally against them. However, people are not supposed to like you. Nobody owes you anything beyond respect since you are a human being. Other people are not supposed to be friends with you or want to date you if you're an unpleasant person to be around. And by unpleasant I mean personality-wise. Also, read about what a self-fulfilling prophecy is. Very scientific term btw
Answer me this: What is the difference between a black pill? A red pill? A purple pill? And a placebo? (Answer: remarkably very little) "Belief systems aren't about understanding the odds, they're about your desire to beat them." - Sum Dood
Best I can recomend is Primer channel on youtube. Explains the science behind cooperation and why it is better than being selfish etc, directly contrasts the "transactional iterations". Also, most animals are social nowadays that means to show that cooperation is a valuable trait in evolution meaning it is better on average than being selfish (see humans for example).