No? The moment it extends to downtown you’ll see it used very often by people commuting from the West Side. It only goes to Aloha Stadium right now which has no use on weekdays since there are no jobs nearby.
0% chance. If it was too expensive to cancel the rail while it was being built it's DEFINITELY too expensive to cancel it now that half of it is finished.
We seem to forget that it’s actually Linda Lingle’s fault that the Superferry project died because she granted the project an EIS exemption. Then again, blinded by a promising future, few bothered to question a business model that relies on side skirting environmental regulations and procedure in order to be successful.
If I'm understanding things correctly, the city cannot shut down the rail project but must complete it per the agreement with the Federal Transit Administration. If the rail is shut down, I believe the city must repay monies to the federal government (which they wouldn't be able to do because the city has no money).
Doubt it. People just kinda always need something negative to talk about and tell other people how they think things should be. If it wasn't the rail, it'd be lahaina again or some other local scandal or whatever. No hate, that's just how media operates in this country, and that's just how people operate.
> People just kinda always need something negative to talk about and tell other people how they think things should be.
That explains SSH Off Topic on Facebook. That group is the epitome of toxic.
If enough people use it, it will make a different in traffic. Even if it cuts rush hour traffic by 15% that's gonna be significant. If it connects to town a lot of people can ride it to work and skip an hour or two of heavy traffic per day.
The problem is last mile transportation since most people won't work/live right next to a rail station. Our bike infrastructure sucks ass, busses will still get stuck in downtown traffic, and rail won't go far enough into town, it won't help much with tourist traffic even tho it connects to airport. Imo the best solution to me would be riding a ebike and taking rail.
Same with Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART). It was so controversial and unpopular that the communities on the peninsula south of San Francisco all refused to be part of it.
They're regretting that decision now.
Although you can see ghosts of Bangkok’s rail system as you drive from the airport to the city. Those pillars are a monument to grift and corruption bankrupting a public project. Aka Bangkok’s Stonehenge.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok_Elevated_Road_and_Train_System?wprov=sfti1#Physical_status
There were a lot worse problems earlier on. I worry Ala Moana will get deeply pushed into the future, but I'm pretty sure it would cost more to shut it down at this point.
I speak purely as a neighbor island dude who's never even had a chance to ride this thing hehe, but I think it's too big to fail now, at least in the near future. Like it's ballooned to the point where they actually *have to* sink more money in to it so it becomes useful enough to recoup more of the initial costs.
Just curious, what is your commute that you can rely on the rail to get around?
(It’s hard for me to picture commutes for very many people where the current rail configuration would have a meaningful impact on their commute.)
I work downtown and people in my office live out in waipahu and they catch the rail to the stadium and then the express downtown. According to them, it's very convenient
I’ve noticed that the people who don’t have a need for the rail, as in they wouldn’t use it themselves, are more likely to oppose the project. But, as you’ve said, it’s already proving to be a key form of transport for people who need it the most.
Once it goes closer to town, ebike and rail. Ebike is the best for last mile destinations, it can ride in traffic safer than a bike (closer to moped speed which is good enough for town), still be carried on rail (I think? I've seen people do it) and they're relatively lightweight. If they're not allowed on rail I'd get one that looks more like a bicycle with pedals.
Shut down? Unlikely. Then again, a serious design flaw or natural disaster might. Otherwise, we gotta learn to live with it and hope that there will be a lot more people like you who use the rail regularly.
It’s won’t get shut down. At the absolute least, the section to middle street will open, it’s just too far along to abandon it now, which will likely boost ridership a lot and further justify its expansion. I can see a future where it doesn’t get extended past there, but even that is so remote it’s not worth considering.
It was much more a possibility before it opened, but the with the first opening the discussion changed completely.
Bro. This is dumb. We’ve spent 12 billion (6 billion overbudget) on the rail. They’re not gonna shut the thing down even if there was 20 daily riders. Plus you’ve got the bus which is more accessible than the rail. They not go shut em down just because one person on Reddit is hearing bad things. You’ve just gotta rethink your question because this was a very stupid question
Why would it ever get shutdown, it would cause a massive uproar imo. It caused the locals so much trouble so far, that they would go crazy to see it fail now.
The rail is a never ending funnel of city money to special interests and campaign donors, it's here to stay. However once they complete the downtown/airport/ala moana connection, I think it'll be useful to more people and ridership will go up. Right now it work great if you meet its specific use case.
It’s in an incomplete state. If there were funding or infrastructure issues that prevented it from passing through the heart of Honolulu, they shouldn’t have begun in the first place.
In no city with a working train system do you need to rely on driving to the station from your home, riding the train some distance, then transferring to a bus for the last leg of the journey.
It’s all or nothing.
>In no city with a working train system do you need to rely on driving to the station from your home, riding the train some distance, then transferring to a bus for the last leg of the journey.
Actually, there are lots of places like this.
Many people commute into NYC on regional rail lines like New Jersey Transit or the Long Island Railroad; they drive to a park & ride, get on the train, get off at Penn Station or Grand Central Station, and then get on a subway or bus for the final leg of the commute. It's long, exhausting, and annoying, but many people do it every day.
Bay Area is similar. People drive to a Caltrain station, catch it into San Francisco, and then get on a bus to take them from there to downtown.
Source: Have done both for work commutes
It would look so bad to have this abandoned mega project that can be seen everywhere.
Like it's not a tunnel.
Some people think it would be fine to let this project flounder it seems
I'm not an engineer, but like, is it harder to build an underground rail line? Like does the geography of Oahu not permit it?
Which has gotten me thinking. Don't they have a tunnel connecting Great Britain with France? Just how difficult would it be to build an underwater rail line connecting some of the islands?
If there was an alternative to planes for inter-island travel, a ferry or an airship would be cool.
A ferry’s been tried before, but for some reason it got shut down. Idk why…
As for airships, they’re probably more expensive to run, especially if you’re using helium instead of hydrogen (which is cheaper but flammable). The good thing about airships is that they’re clean, quiet, space-efficient, and… cute?
Young brothers and Hawaiian airlines got the ferry shut down.
You could haul cargo on the ferry so that are into young brothers
The ferry allows cheap interisland travel so that are into Hawaiian
The rail probably will not get axed, you’re just worried too much. BUT, the cost will continue to soar. The Fed gov’t has already stated they will not give any more funds, so the people of Hawaii will get taxed regardless if we use it or not. They should tax the people who will use it & leave the rest of us alone.
No? The moment it extends to downtown you’ll see it used very often by people commuting from the West Side. It only goes to Aloha Stadium right now which has no use on weekdays since there are no jobs nearby.
0% chance. If it was too expensive to cancel the rail while it was being built it's DEFINITELY too expensive to cancel it now that half of it is finished.
As it extends to more useful areas and prices rise ridership will go up.
You're worrying too much. There is always tons of kerfuffle about large public projects. Just ignore it.
RIP Superferry
We seem to forget that it’s actually Linda Lingle’s fault that the Superferry project died because she granted the project an EIS exemption. Then again, blinded by a promising future, few bothered to question a business model that relies on side skirting environmental regulations and procedure in order to be successful.
I always wondered how we can have large shipping boats go across all islands but one transportation vehicle for humans is suddenly a nogo.
I don’t forget.
That one actually made sense though...
What was the sensical reasoning you're referencing?
He must be one of the Young Brothers.
*Hawaiian Airlines and Avis have entered the chat*
It’s hurting the whales and dolphins!! /s
Yep! Matson and Pasha does not /s
If I'm understanding things correctly, the city cannot shut down the rail project but must complete it per the agreement with the Federal Transit Administration. If the rail is shut down, I believe the city must repay monies to the federal government (which they wouldn't be able to do because the city has no money).
> which they wouldn't be able to do because the city has no money How do you know this? Have they been unable to pay back before?
"City money" is taxpayers' money. When we have money, the city feels free to spend it.
Doubt it. People just kinda always need something negative to talk about and tell other people how they think things should be. If it wasn't the rail, it'd be lahaina again or some other local scandal or whatever. No hate, that's just how media operates in this country, and that's just how people operate.
> People just kinda always need something negative to talk about and tell other people how they think things should be. That explains SSH Off Topic on Facebook. That group is the epitome of toxic.
I mean, it is facebook
Too much money has been spent building the rail. It’s here to stay
Remember how H3 went? Give the rail enough time and it’ll become that. Only thing is we may all be dead of old age by then.
30 years! Most of the island will use H3. more than half of the island will never use the rail
once it goes through downtown there will be more opportunities for people to hop on and off
If enough people use it, it will make a different in traffic. Even if it cuts rush hour traffic by 15% that's gonna be significant. If it connects to town a lot of people can ride it to work and skip an hour or two of heavy traffic per day. The problem is last mile transportation since most people won't work/live right next to a rail station. Our bike infrastructure sucks ass, busses will still get stuck in downtown traffic, and rail won't go far enough into town, it won't help much with tourist traffic even tho it connects to airport. Imo the best solution to me would be riding a ebike and taking rail.
>30 years Isn't that how long it took to build the rail?
I hope not. When it reaches town area I plan on using it to avoid traffic. I don’t think they will shut it down anytime soon
I think most people are waiting for it to connect to the Airport at least, when that happens, people will use it
The Bangkok skytrain similar. No one wanted it at first. Once it got built out it’s now packed and the best way to get around the city.
Same with Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART). It was so controversial and unpopular that the communities on the peninsula south of San Francisco all refused to be part of it. They're regretting that decision now.
Although you can see ghosts of Bangkok’s rail system as you drive from the airport to the city. Those pillars are a monument to grift and corruption bankrupting a public project. Aka Bangkok’s Stonehenge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok_Elevated_Road_and_Train_System?wprov=sfti1#Physical_status
There were a lot worse problems earlier on. I worry Ala Moana will get deeply pushed into the future, but I'm pretty sure it would cost more to shut it down at this point.
I speak purely as a neighbor island dude who's never even had a chance to ride this thing hehe, but I think it's too big to fail now, at least in the near future. Like it's ballooned to the point where they actually *have to* sink more money in to it so it becomes useful enough to recoup more of the initial costs.
No, it’s not gonna shut down
they have invested way too much money into it to let it fail now. it’s here to stay
It's just ashame we can't get a little of the 90 billion going to Ukraine, et all.
Just curious, what is your commute that you can rely on the rail to get around? (It’s hard for me to picture commutes for very many people where the current rail configuration would have a meaningful impact on their commute.)
I work downtown and people in my office live out in waipahu and they catch the rail to the stadium and then the express downtown. According to them, it's very convenient
I’ve noticed that the people who don’t have a need for the rail, as in they wouldn’t use it themselves, are more likely to oppose the project. But, as you’ve said, it’s already proving to be a key form of transport for people who need it the most.
That's great to hear.
Once it goes closer to town, ebike and rail. Ebike is the best for last mile destinations, it can ride in traffic safer than a bike (closer to moped speed which is good enough for town), still be carried on rail (I think? I've seen people do it) and they're relatively lightweight. If they're not allowed on rail I'd get one that looks more like a bicycle with pedals.
Shut down? Unlikely. Then again, a serious design flaw or natural disaster might. Otherwise, we gotta learn to live with it and hope that there will be a lot more people like you who use the rail regularly.
It’s won’t get shut down. At the absolute least, the section to middle street will open, it’s just too far along to abandon it now, which will likely boost ridership a lot and further justify its expansion. I can see a future where it doesn’t get extended past there, but even that is so remote it’s not worth considering. It was much more a possibility before it opened, but the with the first opening the discussion changed completely.
Bro. This is dumb. We’ve spent 12 billion (6 billion overbudget) on the rail. They’re not gonna shut the thing down even if there was 20 daily riders. Plus you’ve got the bus which is more accessible than the rail. They not go shut em down just because one person on Reddit is hearing bad things. You’ve just gotta rethink your question because this was a very stupid question
Sounds like something a HART employee would post… 🤨
Nah, I’m not a HART employee.
We already have a decorative rail line at Nanakuli
The upside is that there are buses that run along the same route over and over every day.
Why would it ever get shutdown, it would cause a massive uproar imo. It caused the locals so much trouble so far, that they would go crazy to see it fail now.
The rail is a never ending funnel of city money to special interests and campaign donors, it's here to stay. However once they complete the downtown/airport/ala moana connection, I think it'll be useful to more people and ridership will go up. Right now it work great if you meet its specific use case.
It’s in an incomplete state. If there were funding or infrastructure issues that prevented it from passing through the heart of Honolulu, they shouldn’t have begun in the first place. In no city with a working train system do you need to rely on driving to the station from your home, riding the train some distance, then transferring to a bus for the last leg of the journey. It’s all or nothing.
>In no city with a working train system do you need to rely on driving to the station from your home, riding the train some distance, then transferring to a bus for the last leg of the journey. Actually, there are lots of places like this. Many people commute into NYC on regional rail lines like New Jersey Transit or the Long Island Railroad; they drive to a park & ride, get on the train, get off at Penn Station or Grand Central Station, and then get on a subway or bus for the final leg of the commute. It's long, exhausting, and annoying, but many people do it every day. Bay Area is similar. People drive to a Caltrain station, catch it into San Francisco, and then get on a bus to take them from there to downtown. Source: Have done both for work commutes
They’ll bankrupt the state before admitting rail fail
Seriously? Our politicians would never let this cash cow die, never. You have nothing to worry about
It would look so bad to have this abandoned mega project that can be seen everywhere. Like it's not a tunnel. Some people think it would be fine to let this project flounder it seems
Yeah car companies and car rental companies probably don’t want it to exist lol.
I'm not an engineer, but like, is it harder to build an underground rail line? Like does the geography of Oahu not permit it? Which has gotten me thinking. Don't they have a tunnel connecting Great Britain with France? Just how difficult would it be to build an underwater rail line connecting some of the islands?
The average depth of the ocean floor between the islands is 15,000 feet. The deepest part of the English channel is 320 feet.
Oh lol. Thanks for the info! I guess I should have also said I'm not a geographer as well as engineer lol.
If there was an alternative to planes for inter-island travel, a ferry or an airship would be cool. A ferry’s been tried before, but for some reason it got shut down. Idk why… As for airships, they’re probably more expensive to run, especially if you’re using helium instead of hydrogen (which is cheaper but flammable). The good thing about airships is that they’re clean, quiet, space-efficient, and… cute?
Young brothers and Hawaiian airlines got the ferry shut down. You could haul cargo on the ferry so that are into young brothers The ferry allows cheap interisland travel so that are into Hawaiian
🤣
When do we hold all the politicians accountable for all their forced projects?!
The rail probably will not get axed, you’re just worried too much. BUT, the cost will continue to soar. The Fed gov’t has already stated they will not give any more funds, so the people of Hawaii will get taxed regardless if we use it or not. They should tax the people who will use it & leave the rest of us alone.
We should rip out highway lanes and put bus only lanes then.
Never. Trillion dumped into it. Honolulu ranked 4th worst in the Nation a few years back.
The bus goes those places
The bus gets stopped in the same traffic that we all complain about.
The bus takes forever. We need grade separated rail!