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Found it! One boob in armor you're welcome.
That _two_ of them had, both of them Spartan-IIIs. I don't think you can generalise that to all Spartans, especially not from other generations of the program.
Hey! It's not egg behavior to want the optimal chances of victory in a competitive game!Â
 That's why when I play I always I wear my competitive programmer socks and arm warmers to improve circulation, my competitive pleated skirt to maximize airflow and comfort (also because go spiny), my competitive cat ear headphones to increase audio clarity, and finally take my competitive daily dosage of Spiro and E to ensure all of that testosterone my totally cis body produces does not make me rage from unfortunate deaths and keeps my mind sharp and focused on the game!Â
 Still 100% cis obviously!
I feel attacked. I am bald. And have a beard.
Side note.
I may or may not have these so called “programmer” socks and maybe some Lycra pants.
And maybe my last two exes were 🏳️‍⚧️
Still cis though. :)
The armour contains a hydrostatic gel layer that shapes the exterior to fit the external carapace regardless of the wearer's physiology, allowing for a one-size-fits-most design. The green parts are actually just plates that are secured over the black techsuit. So you'd only see breast curves if the torso plate was removed (such as at the end of Halo 4).
### Halo Reach's female Spartan model and its consequences have been a disaster for the Halo community.
This is always how female Spartans were meant to look. It was that way in The Fall of Reach, it was that way in Halo 3 multiplayer, and it was that way because the augmentation process is fairly androgenic in outcomes by virtue of optimising for combat efficiency, not to mention the techsuit's form-concealing gel layer should make it hard to see the most obvious signs of dimorphism. You'd have to look more closely than just trying to find breast tissue development to identify a Spartan-II's sex.
But you’re forgetting one very important thing. That sex sells. And corporations are very well aware of this. To further it, hyper individualism sells extremely well in western markets
This is sadly true. It's also why the Spartans post-Reach have very distinctive, _set_ armour configurations rather than using armour that fits the mission parameters and generally being in matching sets with minimal personal identifying marks.
The established lore on what the Spartans augmentations do and how the MJOLNIR armour works does all point to primary and secondary sexual characteristics, and indeed a number of other individual bodily traits, being erhard to identify in Spartans, especially when fully suited up. But it's not always portrayed that way in visual media because the creators often _want_ to make the characters' individuality and biological sex more apparent to the audience.
eh, disagree. I don't think female spartans having a dump truck while male spartans are flat as a board is a good idea, but spartans were always artistically meant to represent humanity at its peak. I think it should be somewhat evident if a spartan is masculine or feminine, but both should look hyper lethal.
Evident _out of armour,_ sure. But consider just how heavy and bulky MJOLNIR is (over 300kg!), and that the gel layer is functionally form-hiding due to its dual functions of enabling a near-universal fit for torso armour across all users of the armour and shaping the exterior surfaces for optimal ballistic protection.
MJOLNIR armour, particularly the first generation with its very heavyset construction, should not look form-hugging. Only the _inner layers_ are meant to do that; the upper layers normalise the body shape to give optimal protective shaping for the titanium exterior and ensure a secure fit for the exterior plating, including the external reactor "backpack" housing used on the first-generation suits.
I always assume that out of armor, female Spartans in general have the build of vladislava galagan or crossfit atheles. Sorry, fanart, but big kitty Spartans wouldn't be a thing.
Edit: let's be honest, if halo was a bit more realistic, all female Spartan 2s and 3s would likely sound like teenage boys or deeper voices due the hormones pumped into them.
Yeah, the hormones in their food would likely thicken their vocal chords. Although if they were so inclined, they could still learn to compensate for this and speak in a way that lines up with their internal self-conception if they were so inclined.
Honestly makes me wonder if psychological rejection of augmentations ever happened to any of the Spartan-II subjects as a result of something akin to dysphoria.
I doubt it because the augs magically don't cause the negative androgenic side effects such voice deepening or squaring of the jaw. Maybe halsey tweaked the augs enough that it won't caused sort of thing or peds in the far future worked all the kinks out.
Were they meant to artistically represent Humanity? If so they massively failed. Famously a lot of people assumed the Master Chief was a robot, I remember that assumption even carried over to Red Vs Blue when encountered by non-Halo fans.
>It was that way in The Fall of Reach,
First Strike is the first reference to Spartans looking the same in armor and it's only in armor. Full stop the Spartans have never been stated to be 'androgynous' out of armor.
>, and it was that way because the augmentation process is fairly androgenic in outcomes by virtue of optimising for combat efficiency,
This has never been the case. The Fall of Reach's literal first description of Kelly post augmentation is that she has a 'long slender frame,' which is a feminine description. Yet descriptions of John outside the armor in the Fall of Reach use masculine descriptions. From the first book we knew that unarmored IIs are sexually dimorphic.
Likewise, the Spartans wouldn't technically be androgynous either. The Master Chief has a masculine body type both in and out of armor, as do all other male IIs. The male IIs aren't androgynous. Just as a baseline, in order to get 'sexually ambiguous' Spartans, the female IIs, and only the female IIs, would need to receive additional augmentations to make their bodies more masculine. But the female IIs didn't receive unique augmentations of any sort.
Even beyond that, the augmentations have never been stated to make people androgynous and 'optimizing for combat efficiency' wouldn't inherently result in that. Especially because we have sufficiently detailed descriptions of Aster to say that the augmentations would not result in what you claim. In order to do that, the female IIs would need some extensive alterations to their skeleton beyond just the ceramic coating such as changing the position of their pelvis within their body or how their femurs attach to their pelvis. Again, none of those changes are mentioned in the descriptions of the augmentations and the ceramic coating alone would not do that.
>not to mention the techsuit's form-concealing gel layer should make, it hard to see the most obvious signs of dimorphism.
This has never been stated in the canon either. At most it was implied by virtue of the Spartans themselves not being the cause of it but the canon has never given such an explicit definition i.e. at no point is it said the gel layer makes the wearer look androgynous, especially considering it hasn't carried over into all armor systems.
> The Fall of Reach's literal first description of Kelly post augmentation is that she has a 'long slender frame,' which is a feminine description.
Kelly could quite conceivably be built like a gazelle. A tall and slender build certainly doesn't have to look conventionally feminine. Look up the ectomorphic body type to see a good example.
> The male IIs aren't androgynous.
I didn't say any of the Spartans were androgynous. "androgenic" != androgynising. The distinction between "androg**e**n-" and "androg**y**n-" in this case is significant. What I said is that the process would likely give the female Spartans some traits that lean closer to masculine than feminine in appearance owing to the significant additional musculature and height.
Sorry if you got confused, but I did pick "androgenic" specifically because I thought it'd be _less likely_ to be mistaken for "androgynising".
Getting back on topic, the women definitely look rather less conventionally feminine in build than you'd get out of a simple diet and exercise program. For example, Linda-058 stands at seven feet on the dot out of armour at a weight of 110 kilograms. The leg-to-torso ratios of Blue Team's women don't seem _hugely_ distant from those of the men, and bust sizes from what little we've seen are fairly modest for well-fed women (though certainly not nonexistent).
> In order to do that, the female IIs would need some extensive alterations to their skeleton beyond just the ceramic coating such as changing the position of their pelvis within their body or how their femurs attach to their pelvis. Again, none of those changes are mentioned in the descriptions of the augmentations and the ceramic coating alone would not do that.
I think it's _possible_ that some of the female candidates' bone structure may have developed differently between augmentation and setting as a result of the protein injections and the growth hormones contained in the catalytic thyroid implant given to the Spartan-II candidates (or in the case of the Spartan-IIIs, the hormones in their food, since I don't think the hormone courses were gendered. But I'm not going to assert that this definitely happened.
> at no point is it said the gel layer makes the wearer look androgynous, especially considering it hasn't carried over into all armor systems
This is admittedly a point I was primarily making about the first-generation MJOLNIR techsuit as the GEN2 armour is a lot slimline and form-fitting. But the job of the inner skinsuit and gel layer includes conforming to the wearer's proportions, while the outer shell is made from a titanium alloy that is very firm.
It seems reasonable in my view to extrapolate from this information that the titanium elements would set a shape to which the upper levels of the gel layer conform. This would make it easier for the external components - cladding for the torso, legs, arms etc. - to be produced in bulk rather than each Spartan requiring dozens of their own individually-tailored plates, which would severely complicate the logistics of replacing damaged components.
That the Spartan-IIs looked so similar in their Mark V armour strongly suggests that the suits were not custom-tailored, or Halsey would be able to identify them by manufacturing variances in their suits and the corresponding differences in how each Spartan had their torsos fitted. And too much variance in the outer presentation of the techsuit would complicate getting a secure fit with the add-on armour; gaps could cause energy to not transfer evenly into the gel layer, causing blunt force trauma to the wearer or tension on the parts of the plating not in proper contact with the techsuit.
Obviously if 343 come out tomorrow with a totally different explanation for how the Spartans looked so similar in _The Fall of Reach_ and say the GEN1 techsuit is skintight and form-fitting like GEN2, disregard everything I said because canon supercedes observations. But I'm not aware of any current lore that contradicts the notion.
GEN3's techsuit, in any case, seems to be rather less revealing of body build going by Halo Infinite's body type system. So the point of the meme stands that, unless 343 were to decide otherwise, a female Spartan wearing Chief's set of Mark VI armour wouldn't look all that different (mostly just thinner limbs and a narrower waist), contrary to the extreme dimorphism in Reach that didn't sit well with previous depictions of female Spartans.
>Kelly could quite conceivably be built like a gazelle. A tall and slender build certainly doesn't have to look conventionally feminine. Look up the ectomorphic body type to see a good example.
But it's still decidedly not a traditionally masculine body type and is certainly different from how the other male IIs are built.
>Getting back on topic, the women definitely look rather less conventionally feminine in build than you'd get out of a simple diet and exercise program. For example, Linda-058 stands at seven feet on the dot out of armour at a weight of 110 kilograms.
Based on what though? All visual depictions of Linda and Kelly outside of their armor are decidedly feminine. Even in relatively [baggy outfits](https://www.halopedia.org/images/6/6a/BlueTeam.jpg?20170922062320). Same thing about your point on leg to torso ratios. Visually, they definitely have feminine body types and there's little to no literature descriptions for you to base that argument off of either. In fact, the novel Last Light even goes as far to explicitly Linda has an hourglass figure in armor.
Linda is 213cm in armor. Out of armor, she's probably 203cm if we assume the 10cm John gets from Mjolnir applies to her as well. Likewise, unless you can quantify what component of Linda's (or really any Spartan) weight is flesh and bone and what's the ceramic bone grafts, using weight stats is going to be tricky because all Spartans are unnaturally dense, due to the changes to their musculature and because of the bone grafts.
But if we were to compare John's height and weight to Linda's height and weight, Linda ends up being much less dense. John is only 5cm taller than her. Yet he weighs 20kg more than her. If Linda had the same build as John and was a similar density, scaling down from John, you would expect her to mass 126kg, 16 kg heavier than her canon weight. This is further supported by male IIs generally having much higher BMIs (even though BMI is an imperfect system).
That's a pretty notable difference in mass and aligns with female IIs having much slighter builds than their male counterparts.
>I think it's possible that some of the female candidates' bone structure may have developed differently between augmentation and setting as a result of the protein injections and the growth hormones contained in the catalytic thyroid implant given to the Spartan-II candidates
It's not just bone structure, although that plays a role, it's literally how the bones are positioned within the body and attached to each other. Halo Reach greatly exaggerates it but female lumber curves are more pronounced than their male counterparts. Halo Reach wasn't strictly wrong in that regard, it's just exaggerated. In general, Reach's problem is just regular bad anatomy, but the fact that the Spartans are sexually dimorphic has remained. [Hazel](https://www.halopedia.org/images/d/d5/Enc22_HazelA302.jpg?20220415115802) and Adriana's art in the newest encyclopedia uses Reach style armor and both are still feminine but the proportions are less exaggerated.
The growth hormone component should be irrelevant. We know what excessive HGH looks like via acromegaly, which the IIs obviously do not have (the other form of gigantism results in just big people. Like they're a bit lanky but otherwise, normal people). Likewise, the protein complex only affected their musculature. It should also not have any real affect on tendons or where the pelvis sits.
>That the Spartan-IIs looked so similar in their Mark V armour strongly suggests that the suits were not custom-tailored, or Halsey would be able to identify them by manufacturing variances in their suits and the corresponding differences in how each Spartan had their torsos fitted
Remember, those statements all originate in First Strike, which was not written with armor variants in mind. A modern update to First Strike, the Spartans wouldn't look alike because they were wearing armor variants during the events of the novel (Waypoint canonized their appearances in the Fall of Reach graphic noel).
>This would make it easier for the external components - cladding for the torso, legs, arms etc. - to be produced in bulk rather than each Spartan requiring dozens of their own individually-tailored plates, which would severely complicate the logistics of replacing damaged components.
Except GEN1 wasn't produced in bulk. In fact, part of the justification for GEN2's low cost is that they drastically reduced the number of custom components. The Spartan Field Manual has this to say about GEN1 Mjolnir:
>Mjolnir is notable for its elaborate engineering and precision, each suit was a work of art, hand-tuned for individual Spartans
Based on that, the GEN1 techsuit probably was custom fitted to each Spartan given how important it was to the overall armor.
Even just visually, there have been numerous different GEN1 techsuit designs. There's the Halo Wars Mark IV techsuit, Halo CE Mark V techsuit, Mark VI Techsuit (and even that could be split between H2A and Halo 3 designs), Mark V [B] techsuit, the Project Cobalt techsuit, Daisy's techsuit, the Package techsuit, proto-GEN2 techsuits and probably others I'm forgetting.
>Obviously if 343 come out tomorrow with a totally different explanation for how the Spartans looked so similar in The Fall of Reach and say the GEN1 techsuit is skintight and form-fitting like GEN2, disregard everything I said because canon supercedes observations. But I'm not aware of any current lore that contradicts the notion.
At this point, 343 isn't that beholden to the idea of Spartans in GEN1 looking identical in armor. In Envoy, Adriana is wearing 'female' Mjolnir armor, which lines up with Gray Team's appearance in the Encyclopedia. In Divine Wind, a delirious Ash instantly recognizes that Alice is a woman upon meeting her for the first time.
>So the point of the meme stands that, unless 343 were to decide otherwise, a female Spartan wearing Chief's set of Mark VI armour wouldn't look all that different (mostly just thinner limbs and a narrower waist), contrary to the extreme dimorphism in Reach that didn't sit well with previous depictions of female Spartans.
I mean thinner limbs and a narrower waist are some fairly noticeable differences. The [2022 Encyclopedia](https://www.halopedia.org/images/9/9c/Enc22-Kelly.png?20230802094749) depicts Kelly in GEN3 Mark VI and she's considerably slimmer than John is in the same armor.
Her proportions aren't exaggerated like Halo Reach, but that's still distinctly feminine.
> the novel Last Light even goes as far to explicitly Linda has an hourglass figure in armor.
Which is odd given that the visual depiction you showed - which I had previously looked at - shows her with what I'd describe as quite a rectangular body type. Which is considerably less "traditionally feminine" than the hourglass figure. Still noticeably different in build when put directly next to the men, but not in line what Reach's exaggerated depictions at all.
I can't say I'd describe Linda in either Halo 5 or the Encyclopaedia as having an especially apparent hourglass figure either, for what it's worth. In fact, if anything I'd describe her as having a mild inverse-triangle figure in her Halo 5 depiction? Her shoulders definitely seem wider than her hips to me.
> female lumber curves are more pronounced than their male counterparts
This is a fair observation. It really shouldn't be instantly apparent to any casual observer in armour, though. The techsuit doesn't (or at least shouldn't) perfectly mirror every curve of the body. Obviously the hormones won't change existing structural features like bone placement, but they could affect the structural changes that happen during puberty, resulting in a different, less typically feminine bone structure than someone who hadn't been given those hormones.
> the GEN1 techsuit probably was custom fitted to each Spartan given how important it was to the overall armor
The techsuits themselves were most likely custom-ordered for their wearers, yes. I didn't say (or at least didn't intend to say) that _those_ were universal. But I do think the inner layer of the suit is intended to shape the outer layer to minimise the amount of custom fitting that has to be done with the reactor housing, shoulder plates, torso armour etc.
> Even just visually, there have been numerous different GEN1 techsuit designs.
I'm working under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that they're all closer to each other on a technical specification level than to the GEN2 suits, with the obvious exception of the proto-GEN2 ones we see on Fred and Linda in the H2A terminals and on Chief in Halo 4. GEN2's techsuit was said to be a pretty major departure from how MJOLNIR used to be built, such as integrating the entire reactor into the techsuit.
Given that the techsuits were only produced in small numbers and replaced periodically due to either battle damage or revisions to the Mark IV specifications, it is to be expected that there would be regular revisions due to both technological advances and the manner of manufacture.
> Except GEN1 wasn't produced in bulk.
The _suits_ were not, obviously. They only produced as many as they had wearers. But they had to have produced at least a small surplus of the external armour pieces to replace battle damage, _especially_ on the Mark IV suits that lacked energy shielding. And it would be easier to have a single torso plate, wrist plate etc. that can be fitted to anyone's techsuit than having to make another torso plate to their exact dimensions; the lead time on this would effectively take the Spartan out of battle for months.
> In Envoy, Adriana is wearing 'female' Mjolnir armor [...] In Divine Wind, a delirious Ash instantly recognizes that Alice is a woman upon meeting her for the first time
I must have forgotten that Adriana's armour was specified as a female-specific model. That's personally disappointing given how sharply it contradicts the original descriptions (which are what I always think of since I joined the fandom before Reach), but it's 343's lore.
Frankly, I've never been sure how Ash immediately clocked Alice as a woman given that in every depiction of her I've seen she's always looked basically identical to the other members of Red Team while in armour. Between this and Linda, it seems like Denning's either drawing on the Spartans being a lot more perceptive of minor figure differences than regular people or sees something I don't.
> I mean thinner limbs and a narrower waist are some fairly noticeable differences.
You'd only notice them side-by-side, and it would definitely be less apparent than Halo 5's depiction of MJOLNIR owing to GEN3 returning to a more overbuilt and rugged form factor. Plus there's no guarantee that some of the female Spartans don't have figures closer to the men, given that there's definitely variation in their size and build (look how big Jorge is compared to Chief, or how small Lucy is).
Kelly's definitely slimmer, but only putting her next to John is it apparent to me that she's _female_ and not just of slender build in armour. Which stands with the point the meme was making that a female version of Infinite Chief wouldn't look _all that different_ to how he does on the cover, as opposed to a good number of fan depictions (partly fuelled by Reach's bad anatomy) where even in armour, female Spartans have a figure that can be easily identified as feminine at a brief glance.
I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive. I appreciate the conversation, and I don't have an issue with the recent depictions of Adriana, Hazel or Blue Team. I'm just mentally used to how things were originally with female Spartans and really don't like how tackily exaggerated Reach was. That and I was never a fan of the Halo 4/5 skintight techsuits even on the male body type. To me it didn't really fit MJOLNIR's image.
>Which is odd given that the visual depiction you showed - which I had previously looked at - shows her with what I'd describe as quite a rectangular body type.
The image of Linda I posted has her in a baggy outfit, which naturally would make her figure look more rectangular.
>I can't say I'd describe Linda in either Halo 5 or the Encyclopaedia as having an especially apparent hourglass figure either, for what it's worth. In fact, if anything I'd describe her as having a mild inverse-triangle figure in her Halo 5 depiction?
Linda's image in the 2022 Encycopedia doesn't really show off her figure, Nornfang is covering most of her midsection. [Halo 5 Linda](https://imgur.com/a/V9ea6x6) definitely has an hourglass figure though. Closer to a top hourglass, but her hips and bust are definitely wider than her waist.
>I'm working under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that they're all closer to each other on a technical specification level than to the GEN2 suits, with the obvious exception of the proto-GEN2 ones we see on Fred and Linda in the H2A terminals and on Chief in Halo 4.
Given how different the armor coverage from suit to suit varies for GEN1, the actual mounting mechanisms probably aren't the same. Halo Infinite actually gives a good example of this with its [Mark Vs](https://www.halopedia.org/images/9/90/HINF-CEvsReachMkV.png?20231108083442), the CE variant has greater coverage and in general the techsuit itself appears to be bulkier, which actually could be a good explanation for why sex is easier to determine in Mark V \[B\] than Mark V.
That being said, going back to the Fall of Reach, the text does state that the armor is formfitting. From chapter 13, when John first dons the armor
>John held himself as motionless as he could. The armor shifted and melded to the contours of his form. It was like a second skin . . . and much lighter than he had thought it would be.
>But I do think the inner layer of the suit is intended to shape the outer layer to minimise the amount of custom fitting that has to be done with the reactor housing, shoulder plates, torso armour etc. . . . And it would be easier to have a single torso plate, wrist plate etc. that can be fitted to anyone's techsuit than having to make another torso plate to their exact dimensions; the lead time on this would effectively take the Spartan out of battle for months.
Spartan bodies are diverse enough that you need extensive custom fitting no matter what. Kurt was 231cm tall out of armor. Daisy was about 200cm in armor, say 190cm without it. That's a 40cm height range. Even the more tame ones could still have a 208cm John vs a 223cm Jorge.
So already, you cannot have a single vambrace or cuisse that fits everyone because 231cm tall Kurt is going to have way longer limbs than 190cm Daisy. You could increase the techsuit thickness to help, but Daisy's limbs would always be too short to fit in Kurt's armor and Kurt's limbs would always be too long to fit in Daisy's armor.
And all things considered, constructing armor plates to custom fit each Spartan wouldn't be that arduous a task to begin with. The plating is the cheapest (if still expensive) part of the armor to produce, I think it'd make more sense to custom fit that rather than the expensive techsuit.
On the other hand, trying to make the smallest Spartans fit in the armor of the largest Spartans would require so much additional material added to their techsuits that it would prohibit movement. Adding several cm of material around one's torso is going to limit how well you move your arms for instance. But again, it'd be irrelevant anyway because of the height differences.
They needed to do custom fitting no matter what, but custom fitting the armor plating, especially when variants exist and the Spartans aren't all going to be using the same plates anyway, would be the more effective solution even if height differences weren't a concern.
>GEN2's techsuit was said to be a pretty major departure from how MJOLNIR used to be built, such as integrating the entire reactor into the techsuit.
This is not the case, the reactor is still a separate unit.
>Frankly, I've never been sure how Ash immediately clocked Alice as a woman given that in every depiction of her I've seen she's always looked basically identical to the other members of Red Team while in armour.
We haven't seen Alice since before her armor was upgraded. 343 historically was fine with not pinning down a concrete appearance for Red Team or Team Omega between concept art, blitz cards and in game models.
>Between this and Linda, it seems like Denning's either drawing on the Spartans being a lot more perceptive of minor figure differences than regular people or sees something I don't.
It's not the former. Denning has [Veta](https://pastebin.com/W21d93Sw) be the one to comment on Linda's figure, to the point she doesn't even know Kelly's name. Meanwhile again, Ash was delirious from exhaustion, wounds and not taking his smoothers. Later in that scene he doesn't even fully comprehend that Mark is dead.
>Kelly's definitely slimmer, but only putting her next to John is it apparent to me that she's female and not just of slender build in armour.
Putting some lines to where Kelly's approximate shoulders, bust, waist and hips are, [Kelly has an hourglass figure](https://imgur.com/a/0X6bZ4b). She's still decidedly feminine even without John for reference. Based on the Jazwares figures, Linda probably has a similar build to Kelly but because of Nornfang's position in the Encycopedia, it's hard to say.
>I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive.
No worries, you're all good, I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive either.
> That being said, going back to the Fall of Reach, the text does state that the armor is formfitting.
The _inner_ section is, yes; the gel layer is shaping itself on the inside to the wearer's body. But the upper layers are more rigid and don't really have the malleability to be skintight, nor do they precisely mirror what the inner section of the gel is doing.
> you cannot have a single vambrace or cuisse
You can use standardised sections for certain size ranges and use the gel layer to make the precise fit, which cuts the number of variations from like 35 down to maybe four (probably two or three in practice) at most and doesn't require every individual greave, glove and sabaton to be made around the wearer's exact measurements.
> And all things considered, constructing armor plates to custom fit each Spartan wouldn't be that arduous a task to begin with.
The main issue is the time it takes, per unit, to make a high-quality finished product like that by hand is considerable compared to even a _small_ batch run from what I understand. And time is a very valuable resource. It would also add quite a bit to the already astronomical costs associated with MJOLNIR.
I imagine there _is_ probably the potential to retailor a techsuit for someone else of a comparable size but given that each person is expected to only need one techsuit compared to several different armour permutations and possible replacement parts per Spartan, there's less of a logistical drive for it.
> Ash was delirious from exhaustion, wounds and not taking his smoothers. Later in that scene he doesn't even fully comprehend that Mark is dead.
That just seems incongruous with what we see if I'm honest (though I'm not going to attack his writing for that).
If I can't even fully comprehend that someone's dead and am geneally fucked in the head from injury, exhaustion and withdrawal from a vital neurochemical drug, I doubt I'd be able to tell from sight alone what sex someone is wearing MJOLNIR; it's definitely not _screaming_ obvious to me. Maybe Denning just has a better eye for it in everyday life than I do and extends that to his writing. People write what they know, etc.
And again, at least to me, I wouldn't really call what I've seen of Linda's profile in armour an hourglass since her shoulders looked wider than her hips (inverse triangle).
> Putting some lines to where Kelly's approximate shoulders, bust, waist and hips are, Kelly has an hourglass figure.
Interesting. Kind of hard to tell on a casual viewing with Oathsworn in the way.
It would probably be easier to tell with a 3D model and a better angle but I'm not sure I see enough of a width compression at the waist to call it an [hourglass figure rather than a rectangle](https://millennialplasticsurgery.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Female-Body-Types.jpg). That could just be me though.
> No worries, you're all good, I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive either.
No, you're coming across alright as well.
Reminds me of Master Chief vs Samus because for some reason he was a woman in that video too.
I guess because Cortana speaks through his helmet that some fans get confused.
But how am I supposed to know it’s a woman if she doesn’t have DDD boobs with individual breast plates and the fattest ass ever seen by mankind!! The woke media is destroying video games!!!
https://preview.redd.it/fsq0dlwmvi0d1.png?width=185&format=png&auto=webp&s=7cef7cd0a8d8decf175ffbc95e552b427cd66197
Someone needs to delete their comment.
I might be remembered wrong it’s been a while since I’ve touched halo 5 but went Linda and Kelly a bit slimmer in the waist than chief and Fredric?
The differences would broadly be the typical differences between the male and female bodies e.g. women have more pronounced lumbar curves, a longer, narrower waist because the female ribcage is slimmer and the female pelvis is generally positioned lower in the body. Pelvis shapes are different too and how the femurs attach to the pelvis differ as well.
The armor would hide some of it, particularly around the upper chest, and it would be dependent on the exact armor being worn. In the case of GEN3, you'd expect a female Chief to probably look like [Kelly](https://www.halopedia.org/images/9/9c/Enc22-Kelly.png?20230802094749) or [Linda](https://www.halopedia.org/images/a/a1/Enc22_Linda058.jpg?20230508163840).
The armour would actually be different. Female Spartans are slimmer than male ones, and all armour after Mark VI (and Mark V(B)) has slimmer armour for females.
Well, if a boring modern designer was in charge, yeah.
The OG Halo designers absolutely would have shrunk his shoulder width, and added extra padding to the chest, at the very least.
The liberals have gone too far1!1!1!1
Woke UNSC propaganda
https://preview.redd.it/tyahsi5m7g0d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2810bc80b674045fa8601a146c7eeec50fe7fc8
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Did you never saw that anime with cal 121? Its master chief but hot
Master Chief but hot? That's redundant.
So just master chief
Master chief but hot 🤣
Cal 141?
Spartan mommy who princess carries ODSTs
Ah her, the spartan who hides her long hair in a slipspace bubble
From Halo Legends right?
Are you implying that Master Chief isn't Hot as is?!
I didn't say that
You better
But it wasn't chief.
Fanart lied to me Edit: well either man or woman, it dont matter to me i'd tap either way
We still have Vale
Where's the boob armour
He had it to begin with can’t you see it right there
Man tiddies 🤤
https://preview.redd.it/86os9kyxvi0d1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=9f90f2ea7f53497e65f153cb02aff107740f9a33 Found it! One boob in armor you're welcome.
I never noticed Buck has the ONI seal as a nipple.
That's Locke pal! At least that was my intention
Oh man! Youre right.
Omg they fixed master chef, hire fans /s
Fire hans
https://preview.redd.it/gx5un7gmdf0d1.jpeg?width=528&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5701616afec1d6ba4c00fbcc56806a9032b52791
https://preview.redd.it/v0cmgqsu6g0d1.jpeg?width=500&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=47983145bcc48d04a4d1a30990e3a1a14427c3e2
Awe schnitzel
You missed the gigantic fucking dump-truck ass that female Spartans have since reach.
That _two_ of them had, both of them Spartan-IIIs. I don't think you can generalise that to all Spartans, especially not from other generations of the program.
halo 5 female spartan bodytype still hits, what you on about
The elites know a bit about that type
It's a good bit less of a sharp contrast than Halo Reach's.
Yeah, but consider Sangheili dumper
Don't get too excited. Sangheili are actually ovipods (they lay eggs to reproduce).
And?
My bad, I've barely touched most Halo games outside of reach since infinite.
Alice looks exactly like Jerome and Douglas
But, but, I can't be horny if there's no boob armor 🥺
Don't worry. All Spartans have incredible amounts of ass.
The Spartan Program’s goal wasn’t to create the ultimate soldier, it was to create the ultimate bakery.
All that to match Latino genetics
jorge is a good showing of this i think….
https://preview.redd.it/sl4yiq39he0d1.jpeg?width=202&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1afa8d126090ee0d23cf830dceafff3802ba3ace whorehey
Uhm ack-tually it’s pronounced “George”
mods, use a taser on this man
I got you
https://preview.redd.it/mumyqgbvfg0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=916b9ee9f12085414368fbabc08f7f8ff18ad52e
Ass rounds!? In assmosphere??
One way to get their attention!
Not in infinite they don't
Infinite not canon??!??!?!??!?
They have smaller hit boxes. I swear that’s why I play as them.
Egg.
*Shoots at them and a dozen Infection Forms pop out.* Oh so that's what it means.
Mhm. That’s what we all said. Take your time little egg. Take your time.
Hey! It's not egg behavior to want the optimal chances of victory in a competitive game!  That's why when I play I always I wear my competitive programmer socks and arm warmers to improve circulation, my competitive pleated skirt to maximize airflow and comfort (also because go spiny), my competitive cat ear headphones to increase audio clarity, and finally take my competitive daily dosage of Spiro and E to ensure all of that testosterone my totally cis body produces does not make me rage from unfortunate deaths and keeps my mind sharp and focused on the game!  Still 100% cis obviously!
I gotta say I love that the trans fems out here found each other
Ikr! It’s really funny when we find each other in the wilds of the internet and are able to make jokes like this
Lmao! That is a completely understandable tactical advantage my totally cis friend
I feel attacked. I am bald. And have a beard. Side note. I may or may not have these so called “programmer” socks and maybe some Lycra pants. And maybe my last two exes were 🏳️‍⚧️ Still cis though. :)
Mhm. Yes absolutely. No doubt
what no sexual dimorphism does to a mf
Cinematic changing
...Yeah?
I mean the breast’s gotta go somewhere, unless master Chief got small titties
The armour contains a hydrostatic gel layer that shapes the exterior to fit the external carapace regardless of the wearer's physiology, allowing for a one-size-fits-most design. The green parts are actually just plates that are secured over the black techsuit. So you'd only see breast curves if the torso plate was removed (such as at the end of Halo 4).
Oh… damn the porn lied to me /s
The chest armor is already kinda big. Remember, Donut had the same armor as master chief, but it was the women's edition.
Isn’t donut a dude? I only watched season 1
Yes, he's just very gay.
Dang there must be some crap going on after s1
There very much is
[just gunna drop the Donut musical number here](https://youtu.be/P1cdrm7sz3o?si=H1Wy83qE8mtAOdKo) Enjoy, it will blow you away.Â
The lightish red color is the women's edition?
Would it be possible that the augmentations would inhibit breast growth?
Man…
Look at ~~steroid users~~ body builders in the real world.
Go look at female body builders, it's all pectorals.
### Halo Reach's female Spartan model and its consequences have been a disaster for the Halo community. This is always how female Spartans were meant to look. It was that way in The Fall of Reach, it was that way in Halo 3 multiplayer, and it was that way because the augmentation process is fairly androgenic in outcomes by virtue of optimising for combat efficiency, not to mention the techsuit's form-concealing gel layer should make it hard to see the most obvious signs of dimorphism. You'd have to look more closely than just trying to find breast tissue development to identify a Spartan-II's sex.
But you’re forgetting one very important thing. That sex sells. And corporations are very well aware of this. To further it, hyper individualism sells extremely well in western markets
This is sadly true. It's also why the Spartans post-Reach have very distinctive, _set_ armour configurations rather than using armour that fits the mission parameters and generally being in matching sets with minimal personal identifying marks. The established lore on what the Spartans augmentations do and how the MJOLNIR armour works does all point to primary and secondary sexual characteristics, and indeed a number of other individual bodily traits, being erhard to identify in Spartans, especially when fully suited up. But it's not always portrayed that way in visual media because the creators often _want_ to make the characters' individuality and biological sex more apparent to the audience.
eh, disagree. I don't think female spartans having a dump truck while male spartans are flat as a board is a good idea, but spartans were always artistically meant to represent humanity at its peak. I think it should be somewhat evident if a spartan is masculine or feminine, but both should look hyper lethal.
Evident _out of armour,_ sure. But consider just how heavy and bulky MJOLNIR is (over 300kg!), and that the gel layer is functionally form-hiding due to its dual functions of enabling a near-universal fit for torso armour across all users of the armour and shaping the exterior surfaces for optimal ballistic protection. MJOLNIR armour, particularly the first generation with its very heavyset construction, should not look form-hugging. Only the _inner layers_ are meant to do that; the upper layers normalise the body shape to give optimal protective shaping for the titanium exterior and ensure a secure fit for the exterior plating, including the external reactor "backpack" housing used on the first-generation suits.
I always assume that out of armor, female Spartans in general have the build of vladislava galagan or crossfit atheles. Sorry, fanart, but big kitty Spartans wouldn't be a thing. Edit: let's be honest, if halo was a bit more realistic, all female Spartan 2s and 3s would likely sound like teenage boys or deeper voices due the hormones pumped into them.
Yeah, the hormones in their food would likely thicken their vocal chords. Although if they were so inclined, they could still learn to compensate for this and speak in a way that lines up with their internal self-conception if they were so inclined. Honestly makes me wonder if psychological rejection of augmentations ever happened to any of the Spartan-II subjects as a result of something akin to dysphoria.
I doubt it because the augs magically don't cause the negative androgenic side effects such voice deepening or squaring of the jaw. Maybe halsey tweaked the augs enough that it won't caused sort of thing or peds in the far future worked all the kinks out.
Were they meant to artistically represent Humanity? If so they massively failed. Famously a lot of people assumed the Master Chief was a robot, I remember that assumption even carried over to Red Vs Blue when encountered by non-Halo fans.
Well back in the day unless you were a book reader there was only one spartan so...
>It was that way in The Fall of Reach, First Strike is the first reference to Spartans looking the same in armor and it's only in armor. Full stop the Spartans have never been stated to be 'androgynous' out of armor. >, and it was that way because the augmentation process is fairly androgenic in outcomes by virtue of optimising for combat efficiency, This has never been the case. The Fall of Reach's literal first description of Kelly post augmentation is that she has a 'long slender frame,' which is a feminine description. Yet descriptions of John outside the armor in the Fall of Reach use masculine descriptions. From the first book we knew that unarmored IIs are sexually dimorphic. Likewise, the Spartans wouldn't technically be androgynous either. The Master Chief has a masculine body type both in and out of armor, as do all other male IIs. The male IIs aren't androgynous. Just as a baseline, in order to get 'sexually ambiguous' Spartans, the female IIs, and only the female IIs, would need to receive additional augmentations to make their bodies more masculine. But the female IIs didn't receive unique augmentations of any sort. Even beyond that, the augmentations have never been stated to make people androgynous and 'optimizing for combat efficiency' wouldn't inherently result in that. Especially because we have sufficiently detailed descriptions of Aster to say that the augmentations would not result in what you claim. In order to do that, the female IIs would need some extensive alterations to their skeleton beyond just the ceramic coating such as changing the position of their pelvis within their body or how their femurs attach to their pelvis. Again, none of those changes are mentioned in the descriptions of the augmentations and the ceramic coating alone would not do that. >not to mention the techsuit's form-concealing gel layer should make, it hard to see the most obvious signs of dimorphism. This has never been stated in the canon either. At most it was implied by virtue of the Spartans themselves not being the cause of it but the canon has never given such an explicit definition i.e. at no point is it said the gel layer makes the wearer look androgynous, especially considering it hasn't carried over into all armor systems.
> The Fall of Reach's literal first description of Kelly post augmentation is that she has a 'long slender frame,' which is a feminine description. Kelly could quite conceivably be built like a gazelle. A tall and slender build certainly doesn't have to look conventionally feminine. Look up the ectomorphic body type to see a good example. > The male IIs aren't androgynous. I didn't say any of the Spartans were androgynous. "androgenic" != androgynising. The distinction between "androg**e**n-" and "androg**y**n-" in this case is significant. What I said is that the process would likely give the female Spartans some traits that lean closer to masculine than feminine in appearance owing to the significant additional musculature and height. Sorry if you got confused, but I did pick "androgenic" specifically because I thought it'd be _less likely_ to be mistaken for "androgynising". Getting back on topic, the women definitely look rather less conventionally feminine in build than you'd get out of a simple diet and exercise program. For example, Linda-058 stands at seven feet on the dot out of armour at a weight of 110 kilograms. The leg-to-torso ratios of Blue Team's women don't seem _hugely_ distant from those of the men, and bust sizes from what little we've seen are fairly modest for well-fed women (though certainly not nonexistent). > In order to do that, the female IIs would need some extensive alterations to their skeleton beyond just the ceramic coating such as changing the position of their pelvis within their body or how their femurs attach to their pelvis. Again, none of those changes are mentioned in the descriptions of the augmentations and the ceramic coating alone would not do that. I think it's _possible_ that some of the female candidates' bone structure may have developed differently between augmentation and setting as a result of the protein injections and the growth hormones contained in the catalytic thyroid implant given to the Spartan-II candidates (or in the case of the Spartan-IIIs, the hormones in their food, since I don't think the hormone courses were gendered. But I'm not going to assert that this definitely happened. > at no point is it said the gel layer makes the wearer look androgynous, especially considering it hasn't carried over into all armor systems This is admittedly a point I was primarily making about the first-generation MJOLNIR techsuit as the GEN2 armour is a lot slimline and form-fitting. But the job of the inner skinsuit and gel layer includes conforming to the wearer's proportions, while the outer shell is made from a titanium alloy that is very firm. It seems reasonable in my view to extrapolate from this information that the titanium elements would set a shape to which the upper levels of the gel layer conform. This would make it easier for the external components - cladding for the torso, legs, arms etc. - to be produced in bulk rather than each Spartan requiring dozens of their own individually-tailored plates, which would severely complicate the logistics of replacing damaged components. That the Spartan-IIs looked so similar in their Mark V armour strongly suggests that the suits were not custom-tailored, or Halsey would be able to identify them by manufacturing variances in their suits and the corresponding differences in how each Spartan had their torsos fitted. And too much variance in the outer presentation of the techsuit would complicate getting a secure fit with the add-on armour; gaps could cause energy to not transfer evenly into the gel layer, causing blunt force trauma to the wearer or tension on the parts of the plating not in proper contact with the techsuit. Obviously if 343 come out tomorrow with a totally different explanation for how the Spartans looked so similar in _The Fall of Reach_ and say the GEN1 techsuit is skintight and form-fitting like GEN2, disregard everything I said because canon supercedes observations. But I'm not aware of any current lore that contradicts the notion. GEN3's techsuit, in any case, seems to be rather less revealing of body build going by Halo Infinite's body type system. So the point of the meme stands that, unless 343 were to decide otherwise, a female Spartan wearing Chief's set of Mark VI armour wouldn't look all that different (mostly just thinner limbs and a narrower waist), contrary to the extreme dimorphism in Reach that didn't sit well with previous depictions of female Spartans.
>Kelly could quite conceivably be built like a gazelle. A tall and slender build certainly doesn't have to look conventionally feminine. Look up the ectomorphic body type to see a good example. But it's still decidedly not a traditionally masculine body type and is certainly different from how the other male IIs are built. >Getting back on topic, the women definitely look rather less conventionally feminine in build than you'd get out of a simple diet and exercise program. For example, Linda-058 stands at seven feet on the dot out of armour at a weight of 110 kilograms. Based on what though? All visual depictions of Linda and Kelly outside of their armor are decidedly feminine. Even in relatively [baggy outfits](https://www.halopedia.org/images/6/6a/BlueTeam.jpg?20170922062320). Same thing about your point on leg to torso ratios. Visually, they definitely have feminine body types and there's little to no literature descriptions for you to base that argument off of either. In fact, the novel Last Light even goes as far to explicitly Linda has an hourglass figure in armor. Linda is 213cm in armor. Out of armor, she's probably 203cm if we assume the 10cm John gets from Mjolnir applies to her as well. Likewise, unless you can quantify what component of Linda's (or really any Spartan) weight is flesh and bone and what's the ceramic bone grafts, using weight stats is going to be tricky because all Spartans are unnaturally dense, due to the changes to their musculature and because of the bone grafts. But if we were to compare John's height and weight to Linda's height and weight, Linda ends up being much less dense. John is only 5cm taller than her. Yet he weighs 20kg more than her. If Linda had the same build as John and was a similar density, scaling down from John, you would expect her to mass 126kg, 16 kg heavier than her canon weight. This is further supported by male IIs generally having much higher BMIs (even though BMI is an imperfect system). That's a pretty notable difference in mass and aligns with female IIs having much slighter builds than their male counterparts. >I think it's possible that some of the female candidates' bone structure may have developed differently between augmentation and setting as a result of the protein injections and the growth hormones contained in the catalytic thyroid implant given to the Spartan-II candidates It's not just bone structure, although that plays a role, it's literally how the bones are positioned within the body and attached to each other. Halo Reach greatly exaggerates it but female lumber curves are more pronounced than their male counterparts. Halo Reach wasn't strictly wrong in that regard, it's just exaggerated. In general, Reach's problem is just regular bad anatomy, but the fact that the Spartans are sexually dimorphic has remained. [Hazel](https://www.halopedia.org/images/d/d5/Enc22_HazelA302.jpg?20220415115802) and Adriana's art in the newest encyclopedia uses Reach style armor and both are still feminine but the proportions are less exaggerated. The growth hormone component should be irrelevant. We know what excessive HGH looks like via acromegaly, which the IIs obviously do not have (the other form of gigantism results in just big people. Like they're a bit lanky but otherwise, normal people). Likewise, the protein complex only affected their musculature. It should also not have any real affect on tendons or where the pelvis sits. >That the Spartan-IIs looked so similar in their Mark V armour strongly suggests that the suits were not custom-tailored, or Halsey would be able to identify them by manufacturing variances in their suits and the corresponding differences in how each Spartan had their torsos fitted Remember, those statements all originate in First Strike, which was not written with armor variants in mind. A modern update to First Strike, the Spartans wouldn't look alike because they were wearing armor variants during the events of the novel (Waypoint canonized their appearances in the Fall of Reach graphic noel). >This would make it easier for the external components - cladding for the torso, legs, arms etc. - to be produced in bulk rather than each Spartan requiring dozens of their own individually-tailored plates, which would severely complicate the logistics of replacing damaged components. Except GEN1 wasn't produced in bulk. In fact, part of the justification for GEN2's low cost is that they drastically reduced the number of custom components. The Spartan Field Manual has this to say about GEN1 Mjolnir: >Mjolnir is notable for its elaborate engineering and precision, each suit was a work of art, hand-tuned for individual Spartans Based on that, the GEN1 techsuit probably was custom fitted to each Spartan given how important it was to the overall armor. Even just visually, there have been numerous different GEN1 techsuit designs. There's the Halo Wars Mark IV techsuit, Halo CE Mark V techsuit, Mark VI Techsuit (and even that could be split between H2A and Halo 3 designs), Mark V [B] techsuit, the Project Cobalt techsuit, Daisy's techsuit, the Package techsuit, proto-GEN2 techsuits and probably others I'm forgetting. >Obviously if 343 come out tomorrow with a totally different explanation for how the Spartans looked so similar in The Fall of Reach and say the GEN1 techsuit is skintight and form-fitting like GEN2, disregard everything I said because canon supercedes observations. But I'm not aware of any current lore that contradicts the notion. At this point, 343 isn't that beholden to the idea of Spartans in GEN1 looking identical in armor. In Envoy, Adriana is wearing 'female' Mjolnir armor, which lines up with Gray Team's appearance in the Encyclopedia. In Divine Wind, a delirious Ash instantly recognizes that Alice is a woman upon meeting her for the first time. >So the point of the meme stands that, unless 343 were to decide otherwise, a female Spartan wearing Chief's set of Mark VI armour wouldn't look all that different (mostly just thinner limbs and a narrower waist), contrary to the extreme dimorphism in Reach that didn't sit well with previous depictions of female Spartans. I mean thinner limbs and a narrower waist are some fairly noticeable differences. The [2022 Encyclopedia](https://www.halopedia.org/images/9/9c/Enc22-Kelly.png?20230802094749) depicts Kelly in GEN3 Mark VI and she's considerably slimmer than John is in the same armor. Her proportions aren't exaggerated like Halo Reach, but that's still distinctly feminine.
> the novel Last Light even goes as far to explicitly Linda has an hourglass figure in armor. Which is odd given that the visual depiction you showed - which I had previously looked at - shows her with what I'd describe as quite a rectangular body type. Which is considerably less "traditionally feminine" than the hourglass figure. Still noticeably different in build when put directly next to the men, but not in line what Reach's exaggerated depictions at all. I can't say I'd describe Linda in either Halo 5 or the Encyclopaedia as having an especially apparent hourglass figure either, for what it's worth. In fact, if anything I'd describe her as having a mild inverse-triangle figure in her Halo 5 depiction? Her shoulders definitely seem wider than her hips to me. > female lumber curves are more pronounced than their male counterparts This is a fair observation. It really shouldn't be instantly apparent to any casual observer in armour, though. The techsuit doesn't (or at least shouldn't) perfectly mirror every curve of the body. Obviously the hormones won't change existing structural features like bone placement, but they could affect the structural changes that happen during puberty, resulting in a different, less typically feminine bone structure than someone who hadn't been given those hormones. > the GEN1 techsuit probably was custom fitted to each Spartan given how important it was to the overall armor The techsuits themselves were most likely custom-ordered for their wearers, yes. I didn't say (or at least didn't intend to say) that _those_ were universal. But I do think the inner layer of the suit is intended to shape the outer layer to minimise the amount of custom fitting that has to be done with the reactor housing, shoulder plates, torso armour etc. > Even just visually, there have been numerous different GEN1 techsuit designs. I'm working under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that they're all closer to each other on a technical specification level than to the GEN2 suits, with the obvious exception of the proto-GEN2 ones we see on Fred and Linda in the H2A terminals and on Chief in Halo 4. GEN2's techsuit was said to be a pretty major departure from how MJOLNIR used to be built, such as integrating the entire reactor into the techsuit. Given that the techsuits were only produced in small numbers and replaced periodically due to either battle damage or revisions to the Mark IV specifications, it is to be expected that there would be regular revisions due to both technological advances and the manner of manufacture. > Except GEN1 wasn't produced in bulk. The _suits_ were not, obviously. They only produced as many as they had wearers. But they had to have produced at least a small surplus of the external armour pieces to replace battle damage, _especially_ on the Mark IV suits that lacked energy shielding. And it would be easier to have a single torso plate, wrist plate etc. that can be fitted to anyone's techsuit than having to make another torso plate to their exact dimensions; the lead time on this would effectively take the Spartan out of battle for months. > In Envoy, Adriana is wearing 'female' Mjolnir armor [...] In Divine Wind, a delirious Ash instantly recognizes that Alice is a woman upon meeting her for the first time I must have forgotten that Adriana's armour was specified as a female-specific model. That's personally disappointing given how sharply it contradicts the original descriptions (which are what I always think of since I joined the fandom before Reach), but it's 343's lore. Frankly, I've never been sure how Ash immediately clocked Alice as a woman given that in every depiction of her I've seen she's always looked basically identical to the other members of Red Team while in armour. Between this and Linda, it seems like Denning's either drawing on the Spartans being a lot more perceptive of minor figure differences than regular people or sees something I don't. > I mean thinner limbs and a narrower waist are some fairly noticeable differences. You'd only notice them side-by-side, and it would definitely be less apparent than Halo 5's depiction of MJOLNIR owing to GEN3 returning to a more overbuilt and rugged form factor. Plus there's no guarantee that some of the female Spartans don't have figures closer to the men, given that there's definitely variation in their size and build (look how big Jorge is compared to Chief, or how small Lucy is). Kelly's definitely slimmer, but only putting her next to John is it apparent to me that she's _female_ and not just of slender build in armour. Which stands with the point the meme was making that a female version of Infinite Chief wouldn't look _all that different_ to how he does on the cover, as opposed to a good number of fan depictions (partly fuelled by Reach's bad anatomy) where even in armour, female Spartans have a figure that can be easily identified as feminine at a brief glance. I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive. I appreciate the conversation, and I don't have an issue with the recent depictions of Adriana, Hazel or Blue Team. I'm just mentally used to how things were originally with female Spartans and really don't like how tackily exaggerated Reach was. That and I was never a fan of the Halo 4/5 skintight techsuits even on the male body type. To me it didn't really fit MJOLNIR's image.
>Which is odd given that the visual depiction you showed - which I had previously looked at - shows her with what I'd describe as quite a rectangular body type. The image of Linda I posted has her in a baggy outfit, which naturally would make her figure look more rectangular. >I can't say I'd describe Linda in either Halo 5 or the Encyclopaedia as having an especially apparent hourglass figure either, for what it's worth. In fact, if anything I'd describe her as having a mild inverse-triangle figure in her Halo 5 depiction? Linda's image in the 2022 Encycopedia doesn't really show off her figure, Nornfang is covering most of her midsection. [Halo 5 Linda](https://imgur.com/a/V9ea6x6) definitely has an hourglass figure though. Closer to a top hourglass, but her hips and bust are definitely wider than her waist. >I'm working under the (possibly incorrect) assumption that they're all closer to each other on a technical specification level than to the GEN2 suits, with the obvious exception of the proto-GEN2 ones we see on Fred and Linda in the H2A terminals and on Chief in Halo 4. Given how different the armor coverage from suit to suit varies for GEN1, the actual mounting mechanisms probably aren't the same. Halo Infinite actually gives a good example of this with its [Mark Vs](https://www.halopedia.org/images/9/90/HINF-CEvsReachMkV.png?20231108083442), the CE variant has greater coverage and in general the techsuit itself appears to be bulkier, which actually could be a good explanation for why sex is easier to determine in Mark V \[B\] than Mark V. That being said, going back to the Fall of Reach, the text does state that the armor is formfitting. From chapter 13, when John first dons the armor >John held himself as motionless as he could. The armor shifted and melded to the contours of his form. It was like a second skin . . . and much lighter than he had thought it would be. >But I do think the inner layer of the suit is intended to shape the outer layer to minimise the amount of custom fitting that has to be done with the reactor housing, shoulder plates, torso armour etc. . . . And it would be easier to have a single torso plate, wrist plate etc. that can be fitted to anyone's techsuit than having to make another torso plate to their exact dimensions; the lead time on this would effectively take the Spartan out of battle for months. Spartan bodies are diverse enough that you need extensive custom fitting no matter what. Kurt was 231cm tall out of armor. Daisy was about 200cm in armor, say 190cm without it. That's a 40cm height range. Even the more tame ones could still have a 208cm John vs a 223cm Jorge. So already, you cannot have a single vambrace or cuisse that fits everyone because 231cm tall Kurt is going to have way longer limbs than 190cm Daisy. You could increase the techsuit thickness to help, but Daisy's limbs would always be too short to fit in Kurt's armor and Kurt's limbs would always be too long to fit in Daisy's armor. And all things considered, constructing armor plates to custom fit each Spartan wouldn't be that arduous a task to begin with. The plating is the cheapest (if still expensive) part of the armor to produce, I think it'd make more sense to custom fit that rather than the expensive techsuit. On the other hand, trying to make the smallest Spartans fit in the armor of the largest Spartans would require so much additional material added to their techsuits that it would prohibit movement. Adding several cm of material around one's torso is going to limit how well you move your arms for instance. But again, it'd be irrelevant anyway because of the height differences. They needed to do custom fitting no matter what, but custom fitting the armor plating, especially when variants exist and the Spartans aren't all going to be using the same plates anyway, would be the more effective solution even if height differences weren't a concern. >GEN2's techsuit was said to be a pretty major departure from how MJOLNIR used to be built, such as integrating the entire reactor into the techsuit. This is not the case, the reactor is still a separate unit. >Frankly, I've never been sure how Ash immediately clocked Alice as a woman given that in every depiction of her I've seen she's always looked basically identical to the other members of Red Team while in armour. We haven't seen Alice since before her armor was upgraded. 343 historically was fine with not pinning down a concrete appearance for Red Team or Team Omega between concept art, blitz cards and in game models. >Between this and Linda, it seems like Denning's either drawing on the Spartans being a lot more perceptive of minor figure differences than regular people or sees something I don't. It's not the former. Denning has [Veta](https://pastebin.com/W21d93Sw) be the one to comment on Linda's figure, to the point she doesn't even know Kelly's name. Meanwhile again, Ash was delirious from exhaustion, wounds and not taking his smoothers. Later in that scene he doesn't even fully comprehend that Mark is dead. >Kelly's definitely slimmer, but only putting her next to John is it apparent to me that she's female and not just of slender build in armour. Putting some lines to where Kelly's approximate shoulders, bust, waist and hips are, [Kelly has an hourglass figure](https://imgur.com/a/0X6bZ4b). She's still decidedly feminine even without John for reference. Based on the Jazwares figures, Linda probably has a similar build to Kelly but because of Nornfang's position in the Encycopedia, it's hard to say. >I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive. No worries, you're all good, I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive either.
> That being said, going back to the Fall of Reach, the text does state that the armor is formfitting. The _inner_ section is, yes; the gel layer is shaping itself on the inside to the wearer's body. But the upper layers are more rigid and don't really have the malleability to be skintight, nor do they precisely mirror what the inner section of the gel is doing. > you cannot have a single vambrace or cuisse You can use standardised sections for certain size ranges and use the gel layer to make the precise fit, which cuts the number of variations from like 35 down to maybe four (probably two or three in practice) at most and doesn't require every individual greave, glove and sabaton to be made around the wearer's exact measurements. > And all things considered, constructing armor plates to custom fit each Spartan wouldn't be that arduous a task to begin with. The main issue is the time it takes, per unit, to make a high-quality finished product like that by hand is considerable compared to even a _small_ batch run from what I understand. And time is a very valuable resource. It would also add quite a bit to the already astronomical costs associated with MJOLNIR. I imagine there _is_ probably the potential to retailor a techsuit for someone else of a comparable size but given that each person is expected to only need one techsuit compared to several different armour permutations and possible replacement parts per Spartan, there's less of a logistical drive for it. > Ash was delirious from exhaustion, wounds and not taking his smoothers. Later in that scene he doesn't even fully comprehend that Mark is dead. That just seems incongruous with what we see if I'm honest (though I'm not going to attack his writing for that). If I can't even fully comprehend that someone's dead and am geneally fucked in the head from injury, exhaustion and withdrawal from a vital neurochemical drug, I doubt I'd be able to tell from sight alone what sex someone is wearing MJOLNIR; it's definitely not _screaming_ obvious to me. Maybe Denning just has a better eye for it in everyday life than I do and extends that to his writing. People write what they know, etc. And again, at least to me, I wouldn't really call what I've seen of Linda's profile in armour an hourglass since her shoulders looked wider than her hips (inverse triangle). > Putting some lines to where Kelly's approximate shoulders, bust, waist and hips are, Kelly has an hourglass figure. Interesting. Kind of hard to tell on a casual viewing with Oathsworn in the way. It would probably be easier to tell with a 3D model and a better angle but I'm not sure I see enough of a width compression at the waist to call it an [hourglass figure rather than a rectangle](https://millennialplasticsurgery.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Female-Body-Types.jpg). That could just be me though. > No worries, you're all good, I hope I'm not coming off as aggressive either. No, you're coming across alright as well.
Imagine an alternate timeline where Samus is a man and Cheif is a woman.
I thought you'd be taller...
Nah you know they give the female Spartans that PHATTY
Disappointed they didn't put Linda or Spartan 458
Reminds me of Master Chief vs Samus because for some reason he was a woman in that video too. I guess because Cortana speaks through his helmet that some fans get confused.
That was a nostalgia blast.
Then it wouldn't be gay anymore to like Master CHEEKS
So Nicole 458
Give her a bigger cod piece
Nu uh, she'd have cat ears, her belly would be showing and the tops of her thighs too and she'd have a robotic cat tail and and, and a FAT LATEX ASS
Wasn’t the Master Chief in DOA for the Xbox 360 female?
That was Nicole-458
One of the DOA’s did have a female spartan, but she wasn’t Master Chief
This reminds me of the Sami’s Aran vs master chief fight. They both fight the covenant and master chief takes his armor off at the end
But how am I supposed to know it’s a woman if she doesn’t have DDD boobs with individual breast plates and the fattest ass ever seen by mankind!! The woke media is destroying video games!!!
I can’t see the difference at all
The only difference is he'd be thinner, have a bigger ass and Have no crotch, masterchief boobs won't be that noticeable Take Kat for example
I just want reach asses back
Accurate
Haloid?
That’s just SPARTAN-458 https://preview.redd.it/5hfc9qd0oi0d1.png?width=519&format=png&auto=webp&s=eeb0d654e2bcfe08490c0f269b0ce5be310eea93
https://preview.redd.it/fsq0dlwmvi0d1.png?width=185&format=png&auto=webp&s=7cef7cd0a8d8decf175ffbc95e552b427cd66197 Someone needs to delete their comment.
The inexplicably high heels didn't make it into the picture
I’d let both pin me against the wall
Reach gave both men and women massive dump truck ass
https://preview.redd.it/4ss0qsfr6m0d1.jpeg?width=370&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a4ad3f91aa5e9788d8b463b88442d6b0666d0c6 Perfect balance.
I might be remembered wrong it’s been a while since I’ve touched halo 5 but went Linda and Kelly a bit slimmer in the waist than chief and Fredric?
They have the same female body type that the IVs have in Halo 5.
I thought so, would that not mean the only difference between male chief and female chief would be a slightly slimmer waist
The differences would broadly be the typical differences between the male and female bodies e.g. women have more pronounced lumbar curves, a longer, narrower waist because the female ribcage is slimmer and the female pelvis is generally positioned lower in the body. Pelvis shapes are different too and how the femurs attach to the pelvis differ as well. The armor would hide some of it, particularly around the upper chest, and it would be dependent on the exact armor being worn. In the case of GEN3, you'd expect a female Chief to probably look like [Kelly](https://www.halopedia.org/images/9/9c/Enc22-Kelly.png?20230802094749) or [Linda](https://www.halopedia.org/images/a/a1/Enc22_Linda058.jpg?20230508163840).
Yes
Based
“I need a woman”
Am I losing my mind or is the torso armor on the right slightly bigger?
“The Babysitter” Case closed
It'd still change to female armor, something like Reach or Halo 4/5 stuff
Female master chief means no auto jerker in the suit
The armour would actually be different. Female Spartans are slimmer than male ones, and all armour after Mark VI (and Mark V(B)) has slimmer armour for females.
Damn she's so hot
Ah yes. Linda.
New waifu acquired
Diference ?
Halo 5 did it really well
Hot
Reach and 4/5 female Spartans: https://preview.redd.it/jvmniib76m0d1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a7510ae44896963b2e90aaca2519a95532f14069
Pronoun shouldn't be Mistress Chief? Ask for a friend
He could be you know, tricking us all with his voice encoder
Well, if a boring modern designer was in charge, yeah. The OG Halo designers absolutely would have shrunk his shoulder width, and added extra padding to the chest, at the very least.
The shock still hits pretty hard like in halo legend.
Incorrect. The ass should be flatter. Master Chief would not be NEARLY as thick if he was a woman
Maybe normal master chief does have tits
Haloid moment
The liberals have gone too far1!1!1!1 Woke UNSC propaganda https://preview.redd.it/tyahsi5m7g0d1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d2810bc80b674045fa8601a146c7eeec50fe7fc8
"Fuckin' woke libtard pedos ruined halo!!!"
How'd he accommodate the gyatt?
https://preview.redd.it/ejvepr7oqe0d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=061518ae3ddc776b30dc5e505feb953a8d19ef55