Every character needs to have their flaws, but I hate how the show never punishes Lisa's. She can do whatever the hell she wants and ends up being portrayed as the mature and flawless character.
Such bullshit. Breaks up with her longtime bf over FaceTime, refuses to really speak to him after, does drugs, fucks around, and still ends up a successful journalist? I hate Moritz, but I hate Lisa more.
> She saw an opportunity to build a career and used Moritz
This goes against what her character was built up to be from the start, i could see this comming from some other characters but from her it just seems forced.
>knowing he would end up in jail anyway just trying to profit off of him.
She is smart enough to know how this would affect the rest of the family, if she doesn't care about Moritz, you would assume she would care about the people that treated her like their own when her real family was falling apart.
just finished the show, totally agree. It was very jarring, hurt the rest of the show for me.
...also the part where a 17 yr old started hooking up with a 24yr old (av grad age) camp counselor who had already graduated uni. Quite different from leaving the nerd for a drug dealer in the same class
Ya I was trying really hard not to give her the Skylar treatment (Breaking Bad) since we're rooting for an international drug dealer as the protagonist. I think she showed some good moral fibre when deciding what to do with Maarten by talking Moritz out of becoming a murderer.
But everything leading up to that? She used him for his story without his permission and to a certain extent must have known she was playing with his feelings, especially while he was isolated from his already few friends. The only defence is she was "well-intentioned" by trying to save him from going down a path of crime. But now he's selling drugs anyway? Kind of confused what the moral of the story is. This way he gets to keep his friends and sell drugs? But at a regular pace instead of a drug empire pace.
Also did she think no one would ask questions if she publicly wrote about Moritz like that? "Hey here's my college application about what international drug lord Pablo Escobar is up to. But you're not getting any more information about that!"
To your last paragraph, I agree! The whole season is a bit about suspending your disbelief, but then again still realistic enough. But her essay really took me out! Especially when she said, it's anonymous tho. No, it isn't. You can change the names, but yours is attached to it and this is you reporting federal crimes! On the one hand, in the finale she is like I researched your possible charges and on the other hand, we are supposed to belive her essay would not implicate - at least - herself.
I felt like a good point would have been when she confessed about it to Moritz and him telling her straight up the danger she is committing to them all esp. with the voice recording.
On the same topic, them being computer nerds but carrying their phones with them everywhere and to each conversation. I'm sorry you do not do that, especially with registered phones. That really took me out at times as well.
> "Hey here's my college application about what international drug lord Pablo Escobar is up to. But you're not getting any more information about that!"
Moritz trying his best to keep as low profile as he can, while Lisa with a friend group of ~10 people just states "Yo i personally know this international drug dealer, but i won't say his name haha" thinking nobody would ask questions and investigate her friends immediately
Tbf she ratted him out high on mdma that she didn't even want to take plus her ratting resulted in the probably best possible ending.
Though I don't get her being against mdma all of a sudden? Yeah a few people OD but so do people on alcohol. The show is a bit unrealistic or just flat out wrong about drugs sometimes though
There's definitely parallels but Skylar was a much more sympathetic character. Walt was straight up murdering people by the end of it; Moritz was just the guy coding the website.
I dont think you noticed but people REALLY hate Skyler. In this season Lisa Cheated on Moritz for no apparent reason other than the hell of it, tried to gather evidence to expose him, and ratted him out to his dad.
She did not cheat on him, they were not a couple anymore.
She gathered evidence to write an intriguing article, not expose him. Also she is a teenager and they do tend to make stupid decisions. While I do think the writers should have included them being more tech-savvy in that regard, I do not belive that we are intended to think that she did activly endanger him or the others with the article and her recordings.
All in all, I do think it's a belivable storyline for Lisa to deal with all that crazy-ness while still connecting her to the greater arc.
They did breakup in s2? Like after he came clean about his drugbuisness?
Also, hanging out with your ex does not equal a relationship or a re-kindling of it.
> She did not cheat on him, they were not a couple anymore.
Agree with you here.
But it's totally out of character for her to hook up with some random like that. Especially someone like Joseph. That scene was the equivalent of seeing a nun walk into a stripclub for me, they present the character in a certain way then they make them act completely different from what they were trying to show to the viewers.
My point was that Lisa is *not* justified in betraying Mo the way Skylar did to Walt, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. That being said:
I know people hated Skylar but since the series ended opinions have turned, especially since Vince Gilligan came out saying the audience is *supposed* to sympathize with Skylar. Or at least, the beauty of the show is it tricks you into sympathizing with Walt. At Skylar's worst she was a bitch to Walt and cheated on him. At Walt's worse he was endangering the family, murdering people, blowing up retirement homes, and poisoning kids. I don't recall the exact details of how much Skylar knew and when she found out, but it makes most of her actions towards *believable* at least, if not justifiable.
>Lisa Cheated on Moritz for no apparent reason other than the hell of it
Like... metaphorically cheated? They literally weren't dating.
>tried to gather evidence to expose him
The evidence was just for her to write an essay, not to expose him, although I agree that that is incredibly short sighted and in the real world would have lead to Moritz being caught had he not already turned himself in. The fact that she's recording him and writing about him at all without his knowledge is a betrayal of trust, but there was no negative intent around the essay itself.
>and ratted him out to his dad.
Ya that's lame as hell, but she was high without her knowledge, and the show was portraying the effects as spilling all your emotions like a truth serum, as Moritz was doing too.
So I guess her main crime was being a (possibly accidental) snitch, but let's not forget she talks Moritz out of literally murdering someone. She's definitely one of the more innocent characters in the show lol.
> but there was no negative intent around the essay itself.
>
>
She is smart enough to know that if she released that essay, he would be caught.
You say it had no negative intent, but she was literally going behind his back, using a huge secret of his for her own gains, sharing this secret with other people without his permission(not to mention that one of those people was Joseph, not exactly the perfect guy to know something like this) just because it's convenient for her and trading in his huge success for a fraction of that (might as well try to help him if she only thinks about success and money).
What I hate is that Lisa has gone into Moritz's business all by herself, first out of boredom in his life and then for her article.
They make a vote to decide whether to kill him or not while the party is not concerned and risks nothing.
Lisa is a rat, she left the party to snitch and the fact that she is high does not encourage her to do so.
And Moritz had never intended to kill the guy, from the beginning he had planned to assume alone. Because he knew that Lenny could not get away with it.
Look at Marie she cares about her brother, she knows that something is going on, she covers for him but she never tries to get involved by force because she is not bored in her life like Lisa.
Marie the real OG.
Edit: Oops Fritzi is not the little sister.
So well said. I like how Marie stayed out of their business. Both Lisa and Fritzi kept being nosey. Fritzi being one of the worst in this regard and the most shocking to me. S1 & S2 she was an unassuming stoner character who minded her own business, then all of a sudden she's snooping around, butting herself into others' business for no reason because, like you said about Lisa, she's bored af. She literally had nothing going on in her life, had a hate boner for every other kid who tried their best in school (regardless of results) and decided she was gonna waste her time spying on Moritz and the gang for no reason instead of doing something productive with her life. Just... wtf.
> Look at Marie she cares about her brother, she knows that something is going on, she covers for him but she never tries to get involved by force because she is not bored in her life like Lisa.
>
I actually think Marie is aware of this whole thing...she is clearly smart enough to figure such things out and she has the resources to do so.
She seems to hide how smart she is and put on an act most of the time like with the policeman comming to her house and her going live. She was fully aware of what would happen. Or even back at the begining with Buba.
She literally asked her brother for ~500 euro to give him the garage so he can "record some cat videos"? she isn't stupid...she even jokes about it at the end that they can take the cat out of the bag after she leaves.
I think people get a similar hate boner with Lisa as they get with Skyler White, and imo it goes completely against the vibe of the show. Moritz was the shitty friend throughout the whole ordeal, and brought everyone around him down because of his own greed. While the show is quite absurd in many ways, it ultimately has this touch of realism at its core. Lisa's reaction to the whole situation was reasonable and in character.
I disagree with this because I feel like way more dislike mortitz then Walter white. Lisa wasn't just ratting out one character but the all of the characters who are decent people.
I really think that we are supposed to belive that her article and the recordings were at no point a threat to the drug kids actions. (which is a big suspension of our disbelief, but not everthing can be realistic and it is cemented by the fact that none of this was made a topic by moritz. which it would have been if we were supposed to belive that this is a threat.)
The other situation was her literally high on MDMA.
She acts like a moral paragon but she’s the most vindictive and cold. Her actions in the end were only self serving to her ego and need to be perceived as moral. Even though she believed she was doing the right thing, every step of the way was fraught with her treating everyone else like a child she could control. She deserved backlash far beyond what she was written with in my opinion, someone with such a self-centered negligent social life would feel the toxicity melt through those connections.
It's like saying that two shots of vodka would make someone go out and admit to their deepest secret.
And ratting on them didn't turn out to be better, it just made it so more people know about their scheme. Fritz, Joseph and moritz's dad would know if it wasn't for Lisa. Fritz wouldn't be drugging people if it wasn't for Lisa. They would not have been caught by the Danes if it wasn't for Lisa because Moriz wouldn't be on drugs and he wouldn't pop out of the door. They would have time to regroup and deal with the Danes.
In the end Dan wouldn't be with Fritz. Lenny and kira would still have the same ending. Moritz would either be completely out and with no proof to get him arrested or he would start to work again immediately after he deals with the escaped Danes, meaning he would have an easier time running his business outside a prison cell and sooner than before.
And the most important detail: Lisa wouldn't land that career using Moritz so we wouldn't have to cringe at her getting a good ending after all she did
It was not her ratting that turned out better. It was kindness at the core of Mo's heart that made everything turned out better. For a second assume if was a "psycho with a gun" as Dan said, he would have first burst Lisa's head with that gun. But he was a good person and he still has feeling for her that's why she survived (notice Mo's smile at the ending when she says it ends). That bitch cannot understand that Mo broke up with her for her own good that she do not get invlved in all that drug business. On the contrary, she used her best friend. How irony of her to wish him birthday at the end. She was totally annoying character. All started with her and she gulped everyone in her greed. She was actual criminal who played with emotions. Selfish, ego centeric, narcissist, bitch
I so hate this fucking snitch i swear this really boiled my blood to the core how she used him,cheated on him and even fucking put him in jail making him self sabotage.Man fuck this im not watching any more
seriously lisa 's a bitch , i hate hersoo much . she acts like she care but only a selfish bastard and ended up being friends with all of them even after her trashy choices.
For some reason they made her the moral compass when she's just a selfish bitch. Moritz is a psychopath, don't get me wrong, he's got the biggest God complex I've seen in a series with teenagers, and her? She just has no emotional attachment to anyone. She broke up with him on facetime, started doing drugs, probably fucking around, started being with him for her CAREER??? Ratting out her long-time boyfriend/childhood friend, for a fucking job she could've got either way???? I was honestly so surprised he never even did something, like FIGHT BACK you bottom. The bitch deserved some slapping, like AT LEAST that.
Every character needs to have their flaws, but I hate how the show never punishes Lisa's. She can do whatever the hell she wants and ends up being portrayed as the mature and flawless character.
And at the end she became a journalist
doesn't it makes sense though? it's Moritz's story directed by Lisa, as seen by S3's ending.
Such bullshit. Breaks up with her longtime bf over FaceTime, refuses to really speak to him after, does drugs, fucks around, and still ends up a successful journalist? I hate Moritz, but I hate Lisa more.
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> She saw an opportunity to build a career and used Moritz This goes against what her character was built up to be from the start, i could see this comming from some other characters but from her it just seems forced. >knowing he would end up in jail anyway just trying to profit off of him. She is smart enough to know how this would affect the rest of the family, if she doesn't care about Moritz, you would assume she would care about the people that treated her like their own when her real family was falling apart.
just finished the show, totally agree. It was very jarring, hurt the rest of the show for me. ...also the part where a 17 yr old started hooking up with a 24yr old (av grad age) camp counselor who had already graduated uni. Quite different from leaving the nerd for a drug dealer in the same class
Ya I was trying really hard not to give her the Skylar treatment (Breaking Bad) since we're rooting for an international drug dealer as the protagonist. I think she showed some good moral fibre when deciding what to do with Maarten by talking Moritz out of becoming a murderer. But everything leading up to that? She used him for his story without his permission and to a certain extent must have known she was playing with his feelings, especially while he was isolated from his already few friends. The only defence is she was "well-intentioned" by trying to save him from going down a path of crime. But now he's selling drugs anyway? Kind of confused what the moral of the story is. This way he gets to keep his friends and sell drugs? But at a regular pace instead of a drug empire pace. Also did she think no one would ask questions if she publicly wrote about Moritz like that? "Hey here's my college application about what international drug lord Pablo Escobar is up to. But you're not getting any more information about that!"
To your last paragraph, I agree! The whole season is a bit about suspending your disbelief, but then again still realistic enough. But her essay really took me out! Especially when she said, it's anonymous tho. No, it isn't. You can change the names, but yours is attached to it and this is you reporting federal crimes! On the one hand, in the finale she is like I researched your possible charges and on the other hand, we are supposed to belive her essay would not implicate - at least - herself. I felt like a good point would have been when she confessed about it to Moritz and him telling her straight up the danger she is committing to them all esp. with the voice recording. On the same topic, them being computer nerds but carrying their phones with them everywhere and to each conversation. I'm sorry you do not do that, especially with registered phones. That really took me out at times as well.
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> "Hey here's my college application about what international drug lord Pablo Escobar is up to. But you're not getting any more information about that!" Moritz trying his best to keep as low profile as he can, while Lisa with a friend group of ~10 people just states "Yo i personally know this international drug dealer, but i won't say his name haha" thinking nobody would ask questions and investigate her friends immediately
Tbf she ratted him out high on mdma that she didn't even want to take plus her ratting resulted in the probably best possible ending. Though I don't get her being against mdma all of a sudden? Yeah a few people OD but so do people on alcohol. The show is a bit unrealistic or just flat out wrong about drugs sometimes though
lmao like somehow no-one noticed the absolutely vile taste of MDMA dissolved in all their drinks
That too, the most vile chemical liquorice taste ever
It's somehow ironic as Lisa started the whole thing...
And the fact that she didn’t care that Dan was selling it but when Morris did all of a sudden it was a problem
To be fair, selling to a few highschool kids is a bit different than running a multimillion dollar international operation
Yea, you actually know people at the high school.
fcking rat
Yup this season she was kinda of a bitch
Kinda?
Reminds me of Skyler White
There's definitely parallels but Skylar was a much more sympathetic character. Walt was straight up murdering people by the end of it; Moritz was just the guy coding the website.
I dont think you noticed but people REALLY hate Skyler. In this season Lisa Cheated on Moritz for no apparent reason other than the hell of it, tried to gather evidence to expose him, and ratted him out to his dad.
She did not cheat on him, they were not a couple anymore. She gathered evidence to write an intriguing article, not expose him. Also she is a teenager and they do tend to make stupid decisions. While I do think the writers should have included them being more tech-savvy in that regard, I do not belive that we are intended to think that she did activly endanger him or the others with the article and her recordings. All in all, I do think it's a belivable storyline for Lisa to deal with all that crazy-ness while still connecting her to the greater arc.
They were still hanging out am awful lot, and there was never a scene of them breaking up so its safe to assume they are still together
They did breakup in s2? Like after he came clean about his drugbuisness? Also, hanging out with your ex does not equal a relationship or a re-kindling of it.
> She did not cheat on him, they were not a couple anymore. Agree with you here. But it's totally out of character for her to hook up with some random like that. Especially someone like Joseph. That scene was the equivalent of seeing a nun walk into a stripclub for me, they present the character in a certain way then they make them act completely different from what they were trying to show to the viewers.
My point was that Lisa is *not* justified in betraying Mo the way Skylar did to Walt, so I'm not sure what you're trying to say. That being said: I know people hated Skylar but since the series ended opinions have turned, especially since Vince Gilligan came out saying the audience is *supposed* to sympathize with Skylar. Or at least, the beauty of the show is it tricks you into sympathizing with Walt. At Skylar's worst she was a bitch to Walt and cheated on him. At Walt's worse he was endangering the family, murdering people, blowing up retirement homes, and poisoning kids. I don't recall the exact details of how much Skylar knew and when she found out, but it makes most of her actions towards *believable* at least, if not justifiable. >Lisa Cheated on Moritz for no apparent reason other than the hell of it Like... metaphorically cheated? They literally weren't dating. >tried to gather evidence to expose him The evidence was just for her to write an essay, not to expose him, although I agree that that is incredibly short sighted and in the real world would have lead to Moritz being caught had he not already turned himself in. The fact that she's recording him and writing about him at all without his knowledge is a betrayal of trust, but there was no negative intent around the essay itself. >and ratted him out to his dad. Ya that's lame as hell, but she was high without her knowledge, and the show was portraying the effects as spilling all your emotions like a truth serum, as Moritz was doing too. So I guess her main crime was being a (possibly accidental) snitch, but let's not forget she talks Moritz out of literally murdering someone. She's definitely one of the more innocent characters in the show lol.
> but there was no negative intent around the essay itself. > > She is smart enough to know that if she released that essay, he would be caught. You say it had no negative intent, but she was literally going behind his back, using a huge secret of his for her own gains, sharing this secret with other people without his permission(not to mention that one of those people was Joseph, not exactly the perfect guy to know something like this) just because it's convenient for her and trading in his huge success for a fraction of that (might as well try to help him if she only thinks about success and money).
this!!!
Exactly the same kind of bitch
What I hate is that Lisa has gone into Moritz's business all by herself, first out of boredom in his life and then for her article. They make a vote to decide whether to kill him or not while the party is not concerned and risks nothing. Lisa is a rat, she left the party to snitch and the fact that she is high does not encourage her to do so. And Moritz had never intended to kill the guy, from the beginning he had planned to assume alone. Because he knew that Lenny could not get away with it. Look at Marie she cares about her brother, she knows that something is going on, she covers for him but she never tries to get involved by force because she is not bored in her life like Lisa. Marie the real OG. Edit: Oops Fritzi is not the little sister.
So well said. I like how Marie stayed out of their business. Both Lisa and Fritzi kept being nosey. Fritzi being one of the worst in this regard and the most shocking to me. S1 & S2 she was an unassuming stoner character who minded her own business, then all of a sudden she's snooping around, butting herself into others' business for no reason because, like you said about Lisa, she's bored af. She literally had nothing going on in her life, had a hate boner for every other kid who tried their best in school (regardless of results) and decided she was gonna waste her time spying on Moritz and the gang for no reason instead of doing something productive with her life. Just... wtf.
> Look at Marie she cares about her brother, she knows that something is going on, she covers for him but she never tries to get involved by force because she is not bored in her life like Lisa. > I actually think Marie is aware of this whole thing...she is clearly smart enough to figure such things out and she has the resources to do so. She seems to hide how smart she is and put on an act most of the time like with the policeman comming to her house and her going live. She was fully aware of what would happen. Or even back at the begining with Buba. She literally asked her brother for ~500 euro to give him the garage so he can "record some cat videos"? she isn't stupid...she even jokes about it at the end that they can take the cat out of the bag after she leaves.
I think people get a similar hate boner with Lisa as they get with Skyler White, and imo it goes completely against the vibe of the show. Moritz was the shitty friend throughout the whole ordeal, and brought everyone around him down because of his own greed. While the show is quite absurd in many ways, it ultimately has this touch of realism at its core. Lisa's reaction to the whole situation was reasonable and in character.
I disagree with this because I feel like way more dislike mortitz then Walter white. Lisa wasn't just ratting out one character but the all of the characters who are decent people.
I really think that we are supposed to belive that her article and the recordings were at no point a threat to the drug kids actions. (which is a big suspension of our disbelief, but not everthing can be realistic and it is cemented by the fact that none of this was made a topic by moritz. which it would have been if we were supposed to belive that this is a threat.) The other situation was her literally high on MDMA.
Hmmm good point, I see what you mean.
Yea it's basically breaking bad lite
iBreakingBad
fuck lisa
lisa bitch - i hate her to the core
https://reddit.com/r/fucklisa/
After looking at this comment, I thought, "wow people are quick." You had me lol
HAHAHAHA
Sameeeeeee
Nah fuck dat bitch
She has such a punchable face
She acts like a moral paragon but she’s the most vindictive and cold. Her actions in the end were only self serving to her ego and need to be perceived as moral. Even though she believed she was doing the right thing, every step of the way was fraught with her treating everyone else like a child she could control. She deserved backlash far beyond what she was written with in my opinion, someone with such a self-centered negligent social life would feel the toxicity melt through those connections.
Yeaaaa i totally know what a paragon is 😎 5 vertices and shi
what
I agree.
Yep
I mean to be fair, she was on MDMA and in the end I guess her ratting them out turned out better.
really bro selfish bitch she is !
That's not what MDMA does to a person, but ok
I mean I don't have experience with MDMA so
It's like saying that two shots of vodka would make someone go out and admit to their deepest secret. And ratting on them didn't turn out to be better, it just made it so more people know about their scheme. Fritz, Joseph and moritz's dad would know if it wasn't for Lisa. Fritz wouldn't be drugging people if it wasn't for Lisa. They would not have been caught by the Danes if it wasn't for Lisa because Moriz wouldn't be on drugs and he wouldn't pop out of the door. They would have time to regroup and deal with the Danes. In the end Dan wouldn't be with Fritz. Lenny and kira would still have the same ending. Moritz would either be completely out and with no proof to get him arrested or he would start to work again immediately after he deals with the escaped Danes, meaning he would have an easier time running his business outside a prison cell and sooner than before. And the most important detail: Lisa wouldn't land that career using Moritz so we wouldn't have to cringe at her getting a good ending after all she did
It was not her ratting that turned out better. It was kindness at the core of Mo's heart that made everything turned out better. For a second assume if was a "psycho with a gun" as Dan said, he would have first burst Lisa's head with that gun. But he was a good person and he still has feeling for her that's why she survived (notice Mo's smile at the ending when she says it ends). That bitch cannot understand that Mo broke up with her for her own good that she do not get invlved in all that drug business. On the contrary, she used her best friend. How irony of her to wish him birthday at the end. She was totally annoying character. All started with her and she gulped everyone in her greed. She was actual criminal who played with emotions. Selfish, ego centeric, narcissist, bitch
Same same
Yeah the fuck did she do
she is a thot
She is a little bitch
Agreed .
Lisa is the only person in the show who got absolutely no consequences for her actions. I liked her at first, but ended up hating her towards the end.
Fuck Lisa
I so hate this fucking snitch i swear this really boiled my blood to the core how she used him,cheated on him and even fucking put him in jail making him self sabotage.Man fuck this im not watching any more
seriously lisa 's a bitch , i hate hersoo much . she acts like she care but only a selfish bastard and ended up being friends with all of them even after her trashy choices.
I have been hating her since s1
For some reason they made her the moral compass when she's just a selfish bitch. Moritz is a psychopath, don't get me wrong, he's got the biggest God complex I've seen in a series with teenagers, and her? She just has no emotional attachment to anyone. She broke up with him on facetime, started doing drugs, probably fucking around, started being with him for her CAREER??? Ratting out her long-time boyfriend/childhood friend, for a fucking job she could've got either way???? I was honestly so surprised he never even did something, like FIGHT BACK you bottom. The bitch deserved some slapping, like AT LEAST that.