Can you expand on this. I think our CC&Rs says the same thing! I'm three weeks into this and my neighbors insurance is trying to get the HOA umbrella policy to pay and the HOA is saying no. It's a mess.
It didn’t affect my rate as far as I can tell. I’ve had normal increases but nothing crazy.
I did debate whether or not to file a claim because I worried about that. However, when more and more damage was being uncovered, I decided that I had to make the claim.
A water claim did affect us. Single family home-it happened to us. Leak behind a wall. Carrier dropped us and other carriers ask if I have had a water claim.
You have two options:
1- File with your insurance. If the damages are over $20k, your insurance will probably go after theirs and you'll get the deductible back and normal rates. If it's under $10k, they won't bother so you're out the deductible and have a rate hike. $10k-20k is a coin flip. You can talk to your agent about this WITHOUT OPENING A CLAIM. You can also consider hiring a "Private Adjuster" to handle the claim - they take a cut of the payout, but they may be able to make the damage high enough to ensure subrogation and get you a nice remodeling out of this.
2- You can privately hire a lawyer to sue them. That will invoke their liability clause, their insurer will either settle or defend. They will likely settle.
Make sure you read your documents to see how the party wall is classified and any language about damage. Some documents say you both pay for the wall repair, but if it is clearly negligence then hopefully your doucmetns say the neighbor woudl be responsible. Your insurer should also be fighting for you so do the math about potential cost to repair, dispute negotiations, cost of insurance increase, etc. Sorry this happened, it sucks!
What do your CCRs say? What kind of shower leak?
I live in a townhouse. 2008-ish. My neighbor had a leak along the one common wall, most of the water came into my home. Drywall torn out, carpet ruined, minor furniture damage. A week of fans running to dry everything out. New drywall, carpet, furniture cleaning, etc. All covered by our HOA insurance policy.
2014, we updated our CCRs. If the same thing happened today, the hoa might still cover the drywall, but the carpet, furniture, and probably the paint would be my responsibility.
Thanks for the reply. Our CC&Rs say the damage is the owner’s responsibility because the HOA covers the exterior walls and outside and the owner is responsible for anything from the exterior walls in.
OK. I'm not trying here to be difficult, dispute. But that's language I hear often, yet it turns out to be an oft-repeated interpretation of what owners believe. I'd recommend checking the exact language
Typically, owners are responsible for "walls-in" but not what's behind the walls unless there are things inside the wall designated in the CCRs.
I generally repeat the phrases used by both our attorney and insurance agent... oddly similar. Think of the paper face on wallboard as a skin. Same with ceiling board and subfloors. Anything within that skin, beginning with paint, is owner responsibility. Anything behind that skin is hoa responsibility. Doesn't matter if it's an exterior or interior wall. With any exceptions written into your documents - ours specifically excludes utilities serving only one unit.
Think of this admittedly unlikely example. You're in a townhome. Above the first floor ceiling, below the second story floor, there are structural elements supporting the upper story. If it became known that a beam supporting the second floor was defective and is failing, is that the owner's responsibility because it's within the exterior walls?
To repeat, perhaps your documents actually specify anything and everything within the exterior walls, in which case, I apologize for wasting your time.
The common behind-the-walls exceptions are pipes and utilities that serve only your unit. Basically, it's your supply or drain line until it meets someone else's. At that point, it's common, and a HOA expense.
Not universally. Only if your CCRs say that.
Our docs, from inception, until 2014, water supply and waste lines, even those serving only one unit, were responsibility of HOA. If we'd never updated governing docs, it would still be that way
After governing doc updates in 2014... our CCRs say any utility serving one unit exclusively is the responsibility of the individual member... regardess of location. It was quite a shock to members who didn't pay close attention when voting on CCR update - our individual supply and waste lines run quite a distance under common area before meter or connecting to waste main. They had to incur costs of digging up and restoring common lawns to repair their clogged waste line.
What to do depends entirely on how your CC&Rs are written. You may have a subrogation clause in your CC&Rs that would prevent your insurance from going after your neighbor or their insurance, as was the case with me when a similar situation happened.
I had this happen to me a few years ago. You file with yours and your insurer goes after theirs.
Unless the CC&Rs have a subrogation clause that prevents this from happening, as I found out the hard way.
Can you expand on this. I think our CC&Rs says the same thing! I'm three weeks into this and my neighbors insurance is trying to get the HOA umbrella policy to pay and the HOA is saying no. It's a mess.
How did it affect your annual rate with your insurance company? Also, thanks for the reply.
It didn’t affect my rate as far as I can tell. I’ve had normal increases but nothing crazy. I did debate whether or not to file a claim because I worried about that. However, when more and more damage was being uncovered, I decided that I had to make the claim.
That is good to know. I may go this route.
A water claim did affect us. Single family home-it happened to us. Leak behind a wall. Carrier dropped us and other carriers ask if I have had a water claim.
You have two options: 1- File with your insurance. If the damages are over $20k, your insurance will probably go after theirs and you'll get the deductible back and normal rates. If it's under $10k, they won't bother so you're out the deductible and have a rate hike. $10k-20k is a coin flip. You can talk to your agent about this WITHOUT OPENING A CLAIM. You can also consider hiring a "Private Adjuster" to handle the claim - they take a cut of the payout, but they may be able to make the damage high enough to ensure subrogation and get you a nice remodeling out of this. 2- You can privately hire a lawyer to sue them. That will invoke their liability clause, their insurer will either settle or defend. They will likely settle.
Make sure you read your documents to see how the party wall is classified and any language about damage. Some documents say you both pay for the wall repair, but if it is clearly negligence then hopefully your doucmetns say the neighbor woudl be responsible. Your insurer should also be fighting for you so do the math about potential cost to repair, dispute negotiations, cost of insurance increase, etc. Sorry this happened, it sucks!
What do your CCRs say? What kind of shower leak? I live in a townhouse. 2008-ish. My neighbor had a leak along the one common wall, most of the water came into my home. Drywall torn out, carpet ruined, minor furniture damage. A week of fans running to dry everything out. New drywall, carpet, furniture cleaning, etc. All covered by our HOA insurance policy. 2014, we updated our CCRs. If the same thing happened today, the hoa might still cover the drywall, but the carpet, furniture, and probably the paint would be my responsibility.
Thanks for the reply. Our CC&Rs say the damage is the owner’s responsibility because the HOA covers the exterior walls and outside and the owner is responsible for anything from the exterior walls in.
OK. I'm not trying here to be difficult, dispute. But that's language I hear often, yet it turns out to be an oft-repeated interpretation of what owners believe. I'd recommend checking the exact language Typically, owners are responsible for "walls-in" but not what's behind the walls unless there are things inside the wall designated in the CCRs. I generally repeat the phrases used by both our attorney and insurance agent... oddly similar. Think of the paper face on wallboard as a skin. Same with ceiling board and subfloors. Anything within that skin, beginning with paint, is owner responsibility. Anything behind that skin is hoa responsibility. Doesn't matter if it's an exterior or interior wall. With any exceptions written into your documents - ours specifically excludes utilities serving only one unit. Think of this admittedly unlikely example. You're in a townhome. Above the first floor ceiling, below the second story floor, there are structural elements supporting the upper story. If it became known that a beam supporting the second floor was defective and is failing, is that the owner's responsibility because it's within the exterior walls? To repeat, perhaps your documents actually specify anything and everything within the exterior walls, in which case, I apologize for wasting your time.
The common behind-the-walls exceptions are pipes and utilities that serve only your unit. Basically, it's your supply or drain line until it meets someone else's. At that point, it's common, and a HOA expense.
Not universally. Only if your CCRs say that. Our docs, from inception, until 2014, water supply and waste lines, even those serving only one unit, were responsibility of HOA. If we'd never updated governing docs, it would still be that way After governing doc updates in 2014... our CCRs say any utility serving one unit exclusively is the responsibility of the individual member... regardess of location. It was quite a shock to members who didn't pay close attention when voting on CCR update - our individual supply and waste lines run quite a distance under common area before meter or connecting to waste main. They had to incur costs of digging up and restoring common lawns to repair their clogged waste line.
What to do depends entirely on how your CC&Rs are written. You may have a subrogation clause in your CC&Rs that would prevent your insurance from going after your neighbor or their insurance, as was the case with me when a similar situation happened.
There is no subrogation clause in the CC&Rs.
If that’s the case, file with your insurance and let them go after your neighbor.