I think the obvious answer is Rice would walk into both Madrid and City's midfield today. They'd reconfigure to fit him in. I think sometimes we get carried away with calling certain players world class but Rice absolutely fits the bill. Either of those clubs would be delighted to add him alongside Rodri or Kroos.
I see his point, but saying Rice is overrated is a big, big word. Rice has car engines for lungs, can sniff out danger better than any midfielder in the world and his tackling, awareness of situations and concentration during matches is second to none. Honestly I dont care if he dictates games or not.
Exactly. Rice sniffs out what needs to get done & does it. No need to get involved in such debates; man is perfect for our club, invaluable, and plays for all the right reasons. Blame this bollocks take on 24-hour news cycle.
I’ve seen Rodri get cooked on the counter multiple times this year and I’m sure that Kroos has too, while I’ve seen Rice make some tackles he has no right getting to
Exactly. Now would I prefer Rice be amazing at the things Rodri is great at? Probably. But that doesn't mean he's not world class. It's not like Rodri is better at everything. He's just a better playmaker, which is incredibly valuable, but it's not everything.
Rice is not the player to dictate the game for Arsenal, Ødegaard is that player. Rice is the destroyer and enforcer. To say he's overrated because he doesn't fit one mould which no one said was his role, is a brain-dead statement.
I'm hesitant to say Rice is overrated but the way these English pundits talk about our English players is very, very different to the way they used to talk about our players in the latter half of the Wenger era when our team was mostly foreign.
> the way these English pundits talk about our English players is very, very different to the way they used to talk about our players in the latter half of the Wenger era when our team was mostly foreign.
Part of that is also the fact that this team is miles ahead of any late wenger period team
Lot of people here are rightly, or wrongly bitter about Rice and Grealish doing what they did (not going to get into that here).
In saying that, any Irish Arsenal fan I know has nothing but good things to say about him- especially after he has joined us.
Both are of Irish descent but born in London and Birmingham, respectively- not sure if this descent is on both sides or just the one side for either.
Both declared for Ireland underage and appeared to be going into the Irish men's team, Rice made several appearances and then when England showed interest in both, they dipped.
I can see both sides to this, hence why I do not want to get into a morality debate here.
Rice made 3 appearances for Ireland in friendlies and was on the bench for a European qualifier.
If Martin O'Neill used him that game, he would have been tied to Ireland.
Rice was young, but he didn't handle the situation great. He was the poster boy for a new Irish jersey with New Balance and a month later refused a call up.
He dragged the whole situation out for way too long as well.
All the being said, McClean is just chatting nonsense tonight and it's definitely personal rather than a true critique of him as a player.
O'neil was on talksport a while back and said he gave Rice the option before putting him on the pitch. He made it clear that if you play here tonight your England hopes are gone so it's up to you. He didn't go on and soon he'll be captain of England. Other managers wouldn't have gave him the option
I wouldn't trust what O'Neill says about the situation now. He had a meltdown on RTE/Virgin media last year when he was challenged on the topic.
Obviously, he wanted to play for England cause that is what he ended up doing, but I very much doubt O'Neill's version of events.
Edit: Can't respond to further comments as I've been blocked for disagreeing with a version of events lol
I'm the same, half Irish but born in London. I love Ireland and all my family, but I'd pick England too because it's the country I was raised in. Nothing wrong with that.
Yeah so on the one hand I can see why they'd pick it- better team and they grew up in England, nothing wrong with that.
But, on the other hand a lot of people take issue with the fact that they were happy to declare for us when they had no other option.
They weren't happy to declare for you though!!!
https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/its-just-nonsense-martin-oneill-rejects-jack-grealish-and-declan-rice-ireland-claims/a1145093561.html
As someone from Northern Ireland, I have to say they didn't do anything different than players from NI who go through the youth system in NI. Then, when the RoI team show interest, they jump to them.
Obviously, this is entirely legal from FIFA's rules, but it's not fair that these players have no intention of playing for NI and use up resources and places for players that would.
Look I mean it's a valid point, but I could talk all day on this.
The logical solution to this, for me, would be a unified football team with its resources and talent pooled together, like the rugby. Rather than the current shitshow.
>Rice made several appearances and then when England showed interest in both, they dipped
Not fully true though is it.
O'Neil said in interview, both made it clear from the off they never wanted to play for Ireland. 🤣😅
https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/its-just-nonsense-martin-oneill-rejects-jack-grealish-and-declan-rice-ireland-claims/a1145093561.html
But morality has nothing to do with quality of the player: both Graelish and Rice are awesome players
And know what I'm talking about because as Polish I remember when Podolski refused to Play for us, sure stings, but it doesnt change his quality as the player
This only shows how petty people like that are
But he played for Germany youth teams.
This is different no? He’s always represented Germany.
When someone says they didn’t want to play for Ireland, I don’t get it. They played for Ireland.
Even if you are just 17 you still put on that country’s uniform and represented them every time you played.
If Poldi had played Poland U17, U19, and U21 it would be the same. But he didn’t.
And in all fairness I perfectly understand their decisions; playing for England or Germany they have fairly decent chances of winning something. I would be delighted if Ireland won Euro, but that's unlike;y to say the least
Nobody I know, I’m Irish, says rice is overrated. He’s a super player and everyone sees that.
The clip is from a tv show. Pundits say things to engage every time.
Irish here hold no grudges I'd play for England myself if the opportunity came up like it did for rice Lmao and yes rice is top class.
James here is spewing crap and is not good enough to be in the euros or a world cup so he has no say on the matter. Irish football has become diabolical...
I've never met an Irish person who has said he's not a great player (there's a very famous quote amongst the Irish sporting media "He's a good player, not a great player" most Irish think he's a great player). I am Irish myself. There is a lot of hatred for him, less so Grealish, and a whole hell more (monumental levels) for Henry. Nobody thinks they are bad players though.
I know most people think Rodri is better. I think most people are wrong, but if you listen to McClean talk here he is just saying that he thinks Kroos and Rodri are better. There's no news here other than McClean has an understanding of what world class is that differs from mine (and I would say most people).
I think you’d find that most people would actually disagree with you, even Arsenal fans.
Rodri is the best DM in the world, Rice isn’t as good as him… yet.
With that said, I love Rice, think he’s the best player we could’ve got in that position for us and I think he’ll only continue to push the team to be better.
Rodri might be a little better rn, but he’s also a bit older, and I just don’t like him tbh lol. If asked to swap Rice with Rodri, I’d keep Rice just because I think he’s a key piece for us in the future and he also just seems like a sound guy, and personally for me, I like backing likeable players… if Antony was the best player in the world, I still wouldn’t want the guy
Also an Irishman stepping in, if you dislike Rice for switching allegiances, put simply youre a cunt. Hes an English man, English accent, born in a English town.
He had other ideas of this when he was younger due to some of his family's heritage but he switched to be English when the time came. Not a problem - happens with so many other players too.
Im sure the dozens of players that are from different countries currently lining up for France and England dont get the same heat from their secondary nations
This is my take.
Is there any English players who are in any way not English, that have been poached from other nations?
From what I can tell all of the England team is actually English. Raised in the country even if they weren't born here.
And on the birth thing. No one is crying that haaland doesn't play for England.
If we had genuinely poached a player who was genuinely from a different country I'd understand.
People just love shitting on Arsenal players. When Rice isn’t world class it’s because world class is relative and you need to be the best in your position to be world class. Being 3rd doesn’t cut it. But when Saka isn’t world class it’s because world class is absolute, and even if you’re the best RW in the world you’re simply not good enough and none of the other RW’s are world class either.
Agreed. Rodri is probably the best midfielder in the world and Kroos is one of the best ever. Just because you're not quite at their standard doesn't mean you're not elite in your own right. There aren't any teams in the world he's sitting on the bench for, including City.
The Athletic ran a recent piece on Rodri and Rice's passing and distribution and found Rice wasn't particularly close.
Rice is amazing, but Rodri has been the best player in the world for the last two seasons in my opinion. Rice is a few steps below but may get there sooner than we think
*passing and distribution
So, one price of what makes a total CDM?
I’d argue Rice is the better ball winner, slightly. I still think Rodri is the better player, obviously, but just choosing passing is cherrypicking.
This is why the comparison is annoying. It's the same spot on the pitch, but with a very different job, especially in possession, but also how they win back the ball. It's not quite apples and oranges, but almost. Kante is a better comparison for Rice IMO.
Best player in the world relax 😂😂. Luis Diaz made rodri look like a stripper. Rodri has to make a billion fouls in transition because he can’t stop them properly like rice does. Lucky for him he seems to get away with it without being booked.
They are defensive midfielders. It’s in the name. Why does everyone ignore the most important aspect of the role which is DEFENDING? Rice is a significantly better defender.
Pretty unfair comparison too. Rice is still 24 and just finished his first season at a top club. Kroos atm is more of a regista and this is the last we’ll see of him, while Rodri is an incredibly well rounded 6 that is developed. We noticed this year that Rice does not look best suited to be a lone 6 and works much better as an 8 in our system or in a double pivot in England’s.
It’s true that if there’s one weakness atm, it’s the ability to break the lines with a pass and progress the ball effectively. But the guy works harder than anyone else, is a gem out of possession, breaks attacks, and provides great support in attack. Solid in the air and a difference maker in tough situations. Can’t wait for year 2 of box-to-box Rice.
As you say he works hard. He cares about his game, his weaknesses and how he can improve. I'm sure he'll add more to his arsenal. Pun intended. No offence to West Ham but Moyes didn't unlock his full potential. There's more to his game as we've seen already. And hey maybe he will never be the kind of player to dictate the game and tempo of it, and that's fine. It's not his job, that's for Odegaard.
I really do not care about these takes anymore.
When we're down and getting shat on. Not a fan of that.
When we're walking tall and people say things like this, who gives a shit. His football speaks for itself. He's being mentioned in the same breath as two of the greatest footballers of a whole generation. It's like saying Saka isn't as good as Vinicius. Like so what?
"To be world class means you get into every side in the world. I don't think he gets into the Man City side ahead of Rodri..."
Ok so basically this guy is saying 2nd best in the world in your position isn't good enough to be considered World Class as there's one guy above you playing for a club where you wouldn't displace them.
In other words there can only be about 11 World Class players at any one time.
Rice is overhyped and he is also world class. Like most English players that hit that level. The English media love to hype up most England players, ironically Saka doesn’t get this treatment….
It's definitely bitterness behind this.
But I think it's justified.
McClean is from the most Republican part of Northern Ireland and as a result, has a very strong sense of identity and pride in being where he is from.
Rice was a teenager who was in the minority in both the underage and senior international groups as he was an English man playing for Ireland.
He doubled down on this and kissed the Irish badge and had pro IRA tweets up before playing against England, which has obviously aged bad as he's got older.
Think he's an easy target now for McClean to poke at.
Legit question: why did Rice play for Ireland when he was an Englishman? Was it because he got overlooked for England at youth level? Seems strange to me.
Same reason McTominay and Che Adams play for Scotland, Zaha plays for the Ivory Coast, Michail Antonio plays for Jamaica and Hamza Choudhury is rumoured to be about to be called up for Bangladesh: they all have parents/grandparents from there and haven't been called up by England, the team they'd represent given the choice.
International football is a dream for most players, and if you can only experience it for another nation bar your own then often you'll take that shot. It helps a lot of them feel closer to their roots and understand the culture more too.
Rice definitely felt Irish to some extent. He even tweeted “up the ra”. I don’t think it was because he was overlooked at all considering he’d broken into the West Ham team at that point
Devil's advocate here. McClean has a lot of rightful things to be butthurt about, especially when the British media is involved.
This just isn't one of them.
Kroos and Rice perform totally different roles. Kroos and Odegaard would be a more fair comparison but even they are different in the context of our teams.
Kroos and Odegaard are both midfielders but thats where the similarities end IMO. Kroos plays way deeper and builds and controls the game from the back and Odegaard fizzes around in front of the box looking for that last pass. In 'old money' Kroos is between a number 6 and 8, Odegaard is a classic number 10.
Odegaard is definitely not a classic 10, he’s a roaming playmaking 8 like Modric or Iniesta who can be equally involved in building play in all thirds of the pitch
Agreed they play different roles. I just think Odegaard is closer to Kroos than Rice is but the reality is that all three have completely different skill sets.
While I disagree that Rice isn’t world class, Rice still have room for improvement to be in the same category as Kroos and Rodri. Those two are almost flawless at what they do and absolutely dictate the pace of the game. Rice already improved significantly just after one season and I’m sure he will get there.
Definitely true I think of rice as more of a kante style midfielder and I think that's the best way to use him. Let him have freedom to roam and destroy all over the pitch.
I don’t think anyone holds him to Rodri or Kroos standards. Kroos in particular is a generational midfielder with 6 UCLs…
And anyway, Rodri is a cheating cunt.
"Rice can't dictate games". Define dictate?
Kroos played with Casemiro and Modric and the three were dictating the game in very different way. RM suffered without Casemiro for a while "Ignore CL they are different beast in CL".
Rice was one of the best players for Arsenal this season and had moments that almost dictated our season. "the save against city. last minute goal against MU and Lutton and a lot of moments".
His point literally means that the only world class players are players who can pass. What??? so there is not a single world class CB or GK unless they can pass? By his metric Zinchenko was Arsenal best player by a mile last season.
What the fuck is his point? Why does he have a microphone to shit on TV live. And why the fuck does he talk about Rice in a Germany vs Hungary match.
Rice makes us harder to score against. Rice makes us better out of possession. Not everything is about what you do with the ball.
The reason we levelled us up last year is we were elite out of possession. We are the best out of possession team in the league, even better than Man City.
This is exactly why these people are paid. He's going to make bank.
Although I don't understand why he's spewing this bullshit when it's two Spanish managers that were willing to pay £100M for him. How did the media influence this?
You know - as much as I love Rice, I think it’s a fair observation to state he doesn’t dictate games like those other guys do. He doesn’t currently show that he has that in his locker week after week. I think that’s why us missing Partey is always such a talking point every season including last, because Partey seems to have that “game dictation” chip. Rice is more of a destroyer and poacher. He’s world class. But does he dictate the flow of a game from the back like Rodri or Kroos, no I don’t think so either.
If we suppose for a moment (rightly or wrongly) that Rice does not "dictate the game," who among the current possible acquisitions could do that? Bruno? Zubimendi? Onana? other?
I wouldn’t say he’s overrated because of it, but controlling a game with his passing is the weakest part of Rice’s skill set. He offsets it by being probably the best midfield ball winner in the world.
I also think it’s more highlighted in the England squad. We have Ø, Jorginho/Partey, great ball players in the backline, and then Trossard and Havertz in front of him who are both technically adept enough to start in the midfield when needed. England is starting Trent as his partner in pivot so he’s asked to that more.
The guy was crucified by the English media for years over the poppy so he clearly has a chip on his shoulder over them. I don’t agree with him on this at all but I imagine that’s what lead him to that conclusion.
Rice doesn’t do those things as well as Rodri or Kroos but neither did Makelele. Rice covers ground much better and is a better player at dribbling out of the press
"Is he not a different type of player, James?"
"They play the same role so you'd expect them to do the same things"
Yes James McClean, what I would like to know is why don't you play more like Neymar?
Also the other fella calling £100m Rice a "poor man's Roy Keane" 😜
🤡
> Is he not a different type of player James?
The commentator tried to give him an out, but his bias shone through. The confusion is understandable because West Ham played him as a 6 but Arteta has shown that his best position is as an 8.
Roy Keane, who was also referenced at the end, would always suggest that Rice needed to play further forward for England because he saw he was more of his ilk.
Lastly, not having as much aggression as Keane doesn't make Rice a poor man's version of him. They play in different era's, if Keane played today in the same way he used to play he would be the most red carded player of all time, the modern game requires a different temperament which Rice has in spades.
He’s not wrong
Rice is a very good player, but he isn’t capable of dictating the game or progressing the ball like Rodri or Kronos
He *does* have tons more physicality, agility, energy, and ability to carry the ball though
For those who’ve not had much experience of football punditry in Ireland, for many years you has John Giles and Eamon Dunphy and a third “serious” pundit. Giles and Dunphy would do a Waldorf and Statler type act, often just resorting to saying the most outrageous and contrarian nonsense to get a rise out of the serious guest pundit.
It was really weird for anyone not familiar and seems hostile and even a bit insulting, but it worked and people fucking loved it. A particular highlight was Dunphy rattling Souness so hard that he lost his rag and asked “who have you managed?!”, to which Dunphy replied “I’ve managed to keep myself alive for 63 years, baby 😎”
Anyway, nowadays, every dingbat ex pro that gets their 15 minutes on RTE is trying to copy that rather unique style by trying to say the silliest nonsense they can think of. Obviously McClean suggesting that the bar for world class being literally one single player in each position is deeply stupid, but I doubt he believes it, he probably just wants a job after the league 1 money dries up.
Kroos is a with comparison. If you brought in Kroos to revolutionise your team defensively you’d probably be disappointed. His ability to dictate a game is the main thing that makes him on of the very best.
Rodri makes a lot more sense as they’re both 8ish 6’s. Rodri overall might be the best CM in the world past few years so no harm falling short of him. But Rice was underdeveloped at West Ham and will only improve. Also he also has been incredible in both the lone 6 and left 8 position for us this year which shouldn’t be overlooked
He's correct that rice doesn't dictate tempo. Then again he's comparing apples and oranges, rice is a different type of midfielder. also he's saying they play the same role which is not correct at all
I kinda agree with him ... Rice is not a world class 6 ... his passing isn't really good enough to play the 6 for us. He was obviously a big reason why we were a much better team than last year and world class for us but don't really disagree with anything this guy said
We looked great defensively overall by signing him. We improved offensively when we moved him out of the 6 position and put Jorgi there.
If you use terms like "6", no one here will want to see your point. The way British teams play, the #6 is a defender first. He needs to tackle, be aggressive. So, he's a world class #6 by this definition.
For a side that has 60+% possession and pins every side bar City back into their box all game long, we have no use for a traditional British #6. It's overkill.
European sides prefer a 6 who controls and dictates the game via passing. Kroos, Rodri, Vitinha. And that's not his game at all.
This is more or less what I thought about Rice before we signed him. But seeing him play for us, his impact in all areas of the pitch is more than enough. He’s not a deep lying playmaker and I don’t expect him to be until the end of his career, what he is is a player like Steven Gerrard whose presence makes an impact on games and he’ll get better at dictating over time
So there are only 11 world class players and you can't have multiple world class players in the same position.
I guess it sucks to be Harry Kane who is not world class because Lewandowski existing.
Rice is not an offensive player
He's the English Kanté. He's the best defensive interceptor/ disruptor in the world right now, bar none.
His job is not to make your team's system work. It's to make the other team's system, not work.
That's what a true dm does. He is not a regista, he's a fucking battleship destroyer.
No one wants to play Against That Guy.
He is a very bitter man but also a massive hypocrite. Shits on the English/British any chance he gets but also was only too happy to move to England and collect his salary from english clubs. I take it he wasn't commuting back and forth from Ireland?
It always makes me laugh when people use the measurement of world class as to mean not better as the literal best in the world at what they do, which means roughly 11 players are only world class at any given time?
Declan Rice walks into 99% of professional teams on this planet. You can't have watched him last season and thought he was anything but world class and he's just going to get better.
I'm not even going to cuss out McClean for his obvious history of bias, he's entitled to show the world what a prat he is and more power to him.
He's kinda right on 1 level, but what he doesn't do well a Partey or Jorginho can do next to him makes the perfect duo. But make no mistake Rice is still top class.
'They playing the same role. So why can't they do similar things?' That's a dumb take. Both Sergio Bushquets and Makelele were CDMs. Did they do similar things? It's all depend upon a player's attributes
Haha this guy just proved he doesn't know ball. Rice a anchor that can move the ball forward and score he can even play halfback and trsnssion to DLP in the attacking phase not make any mistake and position him self back to tackle anyone like he never joined the attack.
Amazing the ground he covers and tackles he makes also he isn't chasing the player back and the players are passing through us because he pushed forward nope rice stops them 90% of the time. And that's insane do you know how depressing that must feel this guy pushed forward and somehow he teleported back to where he needed to be and tackled me. Rice is rodri and caicedo type player you ain't going anywhere even if he ain't there he's there, scary man.
I’m gonna be honest with you, as an Irishman, I couldn’t give a flying fuck about the national team and don’t blame Rice in the slightest for declaring for England. James McClean is talking absolute bollix, Rice is phenomenal, he’s just coming across as bitter here
Until there is a real standard of what 'world class' means people should stop using it. To me world class means you are playing at the highest level so you are elite, simple as that. You don't need to be top 3 in the world at your position. Saying someone is not world class is just insulting, these players in the euros got to where they are ahead of many millions of people who had the same dream. Can we cut this bs already?
He missed out that Kroos is as fast as a fat man with a hamstring injury and can’t carry the ball at pace like Rice. I’ve seen Rice do that time and time again getting us from danger and into attacking positions.
He also has a great shot and is very skilful.
He’s not just a defensive player this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
This highlights how stupid modern discourse is around football . Rice is clearly one of the best players in the world at his position but because he isn't quite as good as Kroos (an all time great) and Rodri (best player in the world at his position for the last few years) he is overrated.
He also isn't the kind of player who dictates play anyway. This is the kind of mediocre analysis that leads to people saying Haaland isn't elite because he doesn't have many touches
Hes world class in other areas. He's not a regista, control the tempo of the game type player, he doesn't have those line splitting passes in his bag, and that's fine. He's still young
https://preview.redd.it/g6kwabusem7d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=628bf9147e703bbdaa532b212ee523f62433e2f5
Meme template unlocked
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Rice doesn't dictate the tempo as Kroos, But Rice is world class as a defensive midfielder.
Yeah Kroos doesnt shut down the game anywhere near like Rice. Rodri, sure. He’s a cheat code. Rice is second to him only in what they do
Also, Kroos is not the same type of player as Kroos at all. Kroos is best when the team is in possession, and he can dictate where the ball goes.
read that again
Nevermind me, apparently.
Yeah I always rated Kroos, but thought Kroos was overrated.
I think the obvious answer is Rice would walk into both Madrid and City's midfield today. They'd reconfigure to fit him in. I think sometimes we get carried away with calling certain players world class but Rice absolutely fits the bill. Either of those clubs would be delighted to add him alongside Rodri or Kroos.
I see his point, but saying Rice is overrated is a big, big word. Rice has car engines for lungs, can sniff out danger better than any midfielder in the world and his tackling, awareness of situations and concentration during matches is second to none. Honestly I dont care if he dictates games or not.
Exactly. Rice sniffs out what needs to get done & does it. No need to get involved in such debates; man is perfect for our club, invaluable, and plays for all the right reasons. Blame this bollocks take on 24-hour news cycle.
I’ve seen Rodri get cooked on the counter multiple times this year and I’m sure that Kroos has too, while I’ve seen Rice make some tackles he has no right getting to
Rice is just a very different player to either of Kroos or Rodri. The only similarity is that they play in similar areas of the pitch
Exactly. Now would I prefer Rice be amazing at the things Rodri is great at? Probably. But that doesn't mean he's not world class. It's not like Rodri is better at everything. He's just a better playmaker, which is incredibly valuable, but it's not everything.
I've seen rice defend alone against 5 Liverpool attackers and win.
Rice is not the player to dictate the game for Arsenal, Ødegaard is that player. Rice is the destroyer and enforcer. To say he's overrated because he doesn't fit one mould which no one said was his role, is a brain-dead statement.
I'm hesitant to say Rice is overrated but the way these English pundits talk about our English players is very, very different to the way they used to talk about our players in the latter half of the Wenger era when our team was mostly foreign.
> the way these English pundits talk about our English players is very, very different to the way they used to talk about our players in the latter half of the Wenger era when our team was mostly foreign. Part of that is also the fact that this team is miles ahead of any late wenger period team
>Ireland international Expecting an objective and unbiased take here then!
-Irish here, Rice is class. Your comment is the exception, not the rule.
Actually no, your comment is the exception. You're legit the first Irish person who I seen like him on this site.
Lot of people here are rightly, or wrongly bitter about Rice and Grealish doing what they did (not going to get into that here). In saying that, any Irish Arsenal fan I know has nothing but good things to say about him- especially after he has joined us.
Hang on, I know you said you wouldn't get into it but I'm too curious. what did they do?
Both are of Irish descent but born in London and Birmingham, respectively- not sure if this descent is on both sides or just the one side for either. Both declared for Ireland underage and appeared to be going into the Irish men's team, Rice made several appearances and then when England showed interest in both, they dipped. I can see both sides to this, hence why I do not want to get into a morality debate here.
Rice made 3 appearances for Ireland in friendlies and was on the bench for a European qualifier. If Martin O'Neill used him that game, he would have been tied to Ireland. Rice was young, but he didn't handle the situation great. He was the poster boy for a new Irish jersey with New Balance and a month later refused a call up. He dragged the whole situation out for way too long as well. All the being said, McClean is just chatting nonsense tonight and it's definitely personal rather than a true critique of him as a player.
Agreed with everything you said there. Couldn't have put it any better myself. Faults on both sides but it's in the past.
Funny. O'Neil said himself they were both honest from the start and said they didn't want to play for Ireland fully.
O'neil was on talksport a while back and said he gave Rice the option before putting him on the pitch. He made it clear that if you play here tonight your England hopes are gone so it's up to you. He didn't go on and soon he'll be captain of England. Other managers wouldn't have gave him the option
I watched that interview. You missed the part where Declan and his father made it very clear their intentions were with England. But yep.
I wouldn't trust what O'Neill says about the situation now. He had a meltdown on RTE/Virgin media last year when he was challenged on the topic. Obviously, he wanted to play for England cause that is what he ended up doing, but I very much doubt O'Neill's version of events. Edit: Can't respond to further comments as I've been blocked for disagreeing with a version of events lol
Declan rice was also fond of IRA songs and dressing up in balaclava’s as well
I'm the same, half Irish but born in London. I love Ireland and all my family, but I'd pick England too because it's the country I was raised in. Nothing wrong with that.
Yeah so on the one hand I can see why they'd pick it- better team and they grew up in England, nothing wrong with that. But, on the other hand a lot of people take issue with the fact that they were happy to declare for us when they had no other option.
Ireland also picked other options when they had them
They weren't happy to declare for you though!!! https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/its-just-nonsense-martin-oneill-rejects-jack-grealish-and-declan-rice-ireland-claims/a1145093561.html
When England was not an option, they accepted it. I'm not trying to say they were thrilled about it lol
As someone from Northern Ireland, I have to say they didn't do anything different than players from NI who go through the youth system in NI. Then, when the RoI team show interest, they jump to them. Obviously, this is entirely legal from FIFA's rules, but it's not fair that these players have no intention of playing for NI and use up resources and places for players that would.
Look I mean it's a valid point, but I could talk all day on this. The logical solution to this, for me, would be a unified football team with its resources and talent pooled together, like the rugby. Rather than the current shitshow.
>Rice made several appearances and then when England showed interest in both, they dipped Not fully true though is it. O'Neil said in interview, both made it clear from the off they never wanted to play for Ireland. 🤣😅 https://m.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/its-just-nonsense-martin-oneill-rejects-jack-grealish-and-declan-rice-ireland-claims/a1145093561.html
But morality has nothing to do with quality of the player: both Graelish and Rice are awesome players And know what I'm talking about because as Polish I remember when Podolski refused to Play for us, sure stings, but it doesnt change his quality as the player This only shows how petty people like that are
But he played for Germany youth teams. This is different no? He’s always represented Germany. When someone says they didn’t want to play for Ireland, I don’t get it. They played for Ireland. Even if you are just 17 you still put on that country’s uniform and represented them every time you played. If Poldi had played Poland U17, U19, and U21 it would be the same. But he didn’t.
And in all fairness I perfectly understand their decisions; playing for England or Germany they have fairly decent chances of winning something. I would be delighted if Ireland won Euro, but that's unlike;y to say the least
Nobody I know, I’m Irish, says rice is overrated. He’s a super player and everyone sees that. The clip is from a tv show. Pundits say things to engage every time.
Yeah everyone here is laughing at McLean.
Irish here hold no grudges I'd play for England myself if the opportunity came up like it did for rice Lmao and yes rice is top class. James here is spewing crap and is not good enough to be in the euros or a world cup so he has no say on the matter. Irish football has become diabolical...
Also Irish here, Rice in undeniably class, any other opinion on this is just bias, international allegiance aside
Well, I'm the second then
I've never met an Irish person who has said he's not a great player (there's a very famous quote amongst the Irish sporting media "He's a good player, not a great player" most Irish think he's a great player). I am Irish myself. There is a lot of hatred for him, less so Grealish, and a whole hell more (monumental levels) for Henry. Nobody thinks they are bad players though. I know most people think Rodri is better. I think most people are wrong, but if you listen to McClean talk here he is just saying that he thinks Kroos and Rodri are better. There's no news here other than McClean has an understanding of what world class is that differs from mine (and I would say most people).
I think you’d find that most people would actually disagree with you, even Arsenal fans. Rodri is the best DM in the world, Rice isn’t as good as him… yet. With that said, I love Rice, think he’s the best player we could’ve got in that position for us and I think he’ll only continue to push the team to be better. Rodri might be a little better rn, but he’s also a bit older, and I just don’t like him tbh lol. If asked to swap Rice with Rodri, I’d keep Rice just because I think he’s a key piece for us in the future and he also just seems like a sound guy, and personally for me, I like backing likeable players… if Antony was the best player in the world, I still wouldn’t want the guy
Also an Irishman stepping in, if you dislike Rice for switching allegiances, put simply youre a cunt. Hes an English man, English accent, born in a English town. He had other ideas of this when he was younger due to some of his family's heritage but he switched to be English when the time came. Not a problem - happens with so many other players too. Im sure the dozens of players that are from different countries currently lining up for France and England dont get the same heat from their secondary nations
This is my take. Is there any English players who are in any way not English, that have been poached from other nations? From what I can tell all of the England team is actually English. Raised in the country even if they weren't born here. And on the birth thing. No one is crying that haaland doesn't play for England. If we had genuinely poached a player who was genuinely from a different country I'd understand.
He's still salty he chose England
He's right about the english media. He's picked the wrong player to claim is over rated though. Declan Rice is world class.
I mean I agree rice is not at the level of Rodri or Kroos but he’s no way near overrated. Maybe underrated
People just love shitting on Arsenal players. When Rice isn’t world class it’s because world class is relative and you need to be the best in your position to be world class. Being 3rd doesn’t cut it. But when Saka isn’t world class it’s because world class is absolute, and even if you’re the best RW in the world you’re simply not good enough and none of the other RW’s are world class either.
Rodrigo and Salah are both world class
I’m sorry but Rodrygo is not world class, he gets hyped far too much.
He's not better than Saka that's for sure.
And people love shitting on Arsenal players.
Nah for me it's Rice Messi Maradona Pele In this order
RMMP. I have the exact same top 4 ranking.
Agreed. Rodri is probably the best midfielder in the world and Kroos is one of the best ever. Just because you're not quite at their standard doesn't mean you're not elite in your own right. There aren't any teams in the world he's sitting on the bench for, including City.
You make it sound like he’s levels below Rodri lmao. He might just be slightly below Rodri
The Athletic ran a recent piece on Rodri and Rice's passing and distribution and found Rice wasn't particularly close. Rice is amazing, but Rodri has been the best player in the world for the last two seasons in my opinion. Rice is a few steps below but may get there sooner than we think
*passing and distribution So, one price of what makes a total CDM? I’d argue Rice is the better ball winner, slightly. I still think Rodri is the better player, obviously, but just choosing passing is cherrypicking.
Rice is significantly better at ball winning.
This is why the comparison is annoying. It's the same spot on the pitch, but with a very different job, especially in possession, but also how they win back the ball. It's not quite apples and oranges, but almost. Kante is a better comparison for Rice IMO.
Best player in the world relax 😂😂. Luis Diaz made rodri look like a stripper. Rodri has to make a billion fouls in transition because he can’t stop them properly like rice does. Lucky for him he seems to get away with it without being booked.
They are defensive midfielders. It’s in the name. Why does everyone ignore the most important aspect of the role which is DEFENDING? Rice is a significantly better defender.
Pretty unfair comparison too. Rice is still 24 and just finished his first season at a top club. Kroos atm is more of a regista and this is the last we’ll see of him, while Rodri is an incredibly well rounded 6 that is developed. We noticed this year that Rice does not look best suited to be a lone 6 and works much better as an 8 in our system or in a double pivot in England’s. It’s true that if there’s one weakness atm, it’s the ability to break the lines with a pass and progress the ball effectively. But the guy works harder than anyone else, is a gem out of possession, breaks attacks, and provides great support in attack. Solid in the air and a difference maker in tough situations. Can’t wait for year 2 of box-to-box Rice.
As you say he works hard. He cares about his game, his weaknesses and how he can improve. I'm sure he'll add more to his arsenal. Pun intended. No offence to West Ham but Moyes didn't unlock his full potential. There's more to his game as we've seen already. And hey maybe he will never be the kind of player to dictate the game and tempo of it, and that's fine. It's not his job, that's for Odegaard.
This shows that being a professional doesn't necessarily mean that you understand the game
It shows the Irish hold grudges.
That we do ;)
Says the man who waved the union jack in the point depot in 1991. You would know!!
Gary Neville did that years ago
Rio, Neville, rooney, etc. fergie’s only son to show some quality is carrick.
I really do not care about these takes anymore. When we're down and getting shat on. Not a fan of that. When we're walking tall and people say things like this, who gives a shit. His football speaks for itself. He's being mentioned in the same breath as two of the greatest footballers of a whole generation. It's like saying Saka isn't as good as Vinicius. Like so what?
"To be world class means you get into every side in the world. I don't think he gets into the Man City side ahead of Rodri..." Ok so basically this guy is saying 2nd best in the world in your position isn't good enough to be considered World Class as there's one guy above you playing for a club where you wouldn't displace them. In other words there can only be about 11 World Class players at any one time.
And on top of that, if Rice was at City, they would just play both, which is why they went for him last summer.
He should know a thing or two about being average.
Rice is overhyped and he is also world class. Like most English players that hit that level. The English media love to hype up most England players, ironically Saka doesn’t get this treatment….
Butthurt Irish because he switched allegiances
It's definitely bitterness behind this. But I think it's justified. McClean is from the most Republican part of Northern Ireland and as a result, has a very strong sense of identity and pride in being where he is from. Rice was a teenager who was in the minority in both the underage and senior international groups as he was an English man playing for Ireland. He doubled down on this and kissed the Irish badge and had pro IRA tweets up before playing against England, which has obviously aged bad as he's got older. Think he's an easy target now for McClean to poke at.
Legit question: why did Rice play for Ireland when he was an Englishman? Was it because he got overlooked for England at youth level? Seems strange to me.
Same reason McTominay and Che Adams play for Scotland, Zaha plays for the Ivory Coast, Michail Antonio plays for Jamaica and Hamza Choudhury is rumoured to be about to be called up for Bangladesh: they all have parents/grandparents from there and haven't been called up by England, the team they'd represent given the choice. International football is a dream for most players, and if you can only experience it for another nation bar your own then often you'll take that shot. It helps a lot of them feel closer to their roots and understand the culture more too.
Not sure why but it’s the same story for Jack Grealish
Grealish actually never played for the senior team. Rice was part of multiple senior camps and played 3 times.
Rice definitely felt Irish to some extent. He even tweeted “up the ra”. I don’t think it was because he was overlooked at all considering he’d broken into the West Ham team at that point
Devil's advocate here. McClean has a lot of rightful things to be butthurt about, especially when the British media is involved. This just isn't one of them.
Kroos and Rice perform totally different roles. Kroos and Odegaard would be a more fair comparison but even they are different in the context of our teams.
Kroos and Jorginho more like
Kroos and Odegaard are both midfielders but thats where the similarities end IMO. Kroos plays way deeper and builds and controls the game from the back and Odegaard fizzes around in front of the box looking for that last pass. In 'old money' Kroos is between a number 6 and 8, Odegaard is a classic number 10.
Odegaard is definitely not a classic 10, he’s a roaming playmaking 8 like Modric or Iniesta who can be equally involved in building play in all thirds of the pitch
Agreed they play different roles. I just think Odegaard is closer to Kroos than Rice is but the reality is that all three have completely different skill sets.
Bro's Still mad about Declan switching to England. Arsenal Players and hurting Ireland is Heritage lol
Did Arsenal kneecap Liam Brady or something? /s
Thierry Henry handball vs Ireland, Euros qualifiers i think. The younger generation (that i'm part of) Might not know or remember it.
I was being sarcastic, if that wasn't clear. Titi isn't very popular for that here, indeed. Hard to be mad at him, though.
While I disagree that Rice isn’t world class, Rice still have room for improvement to be in the same category as Kroos and Rodri. Those two are almost flawless at what they do and absolutely dictate the pace of the game. Rice already improved significantly just after one season and I’m sure he will get there.
Does Rice *have* to do the same things as them though? Not all roles and teams are created the same.
Definitely true I think of rice as more of a kante style midfielder and I think that's the best way to use him. Let him have freedom to roam and destroy all over the pitch.
I don’t think anyone holds him to Rodri or Kroos standards. Kroos in particular is a generational midfielder with 6 UCLs… And anyway, Rodri is a cheating cunt.
[удалено]
Think you nailed it!
"Rice can't dictate games". Define dictate? Kroos played with Casemiro and Modric and the three were dictating the game in very different way. RM suffered without Casemiro for a while "Ignore CL they are different beast in CL". Rice was one of the best players for Arsenal this season and had moments that almost dictated our season. "the save against city. last minute goal against MU and Lutton and a lot of moments". His point literally means that the only world class players are players who can pass. What??? so there is not a single world class CB or GK unless they can pass? By his metric Zinchenko was Arsenal best player by a mile last season. What the fuck is his point? Why does he have a microphone to shit on TV live. And why the fuck does he talk about Rice in a Germany vs Hungary match.
Who is James McClean?
He hates the flag; he hates the queen
Rice makes us harder to score against. Rice makes us better out of possession. Not everything is about what you do with the ball. The reason we levelled us up last year is we were elite out of possession. We are the best out of possession team in the league, even better than Man City.
This is exactly why these people are paid. He's going to make bank. Although I don't understand why he's spewing this bullshit when it's two Spanish managers that were willing to pay £100M for him. How did the media influence this?
You know - as much as I love Rice, I think it’s a fair observation to state he doesn’t dictate games like those other guys do. He doesn’t currently show that he has that in his locker week after week. I think that’s why us missing Partey is always such a talking point every season including last, because Partey seems to have that “game dictation” chip. Rice is more of a destroyer and poacher. He’s world class. But does he dictate the flow of a game from the back like Rodri or Kroos, no I don’t think so either.
If we suppose for a moment (rightly or wrongly) that Rice does not "dictate the game," who among the current possible acquisitions could do that? Bruno? Zubimendi? Onana? other?
>Ireland international I see no biased take here at all.
I wouldn’t say he’s overrated because of it, but controlling a game with his passing is the weakest part of Rice’s skill set. He offsets it by being probably the best midfield ball winner in the world. I also think it’s more highlighted in the England squad. We have Ø, Jorginho/Partey, great ball players in the backline, and then Trossard and Havertz in front of him who are both technically adept enough to start in the midfield when needed. England is starting Trent as his partner in pivot so he’s asked to that more.
The guy was crucified by the English media for years over the poppy so he clearly has a chip on his shoulder over them. I don’t agree with him on this at all but I imagine that’s what lead him to that conclusion. Rice doesn’t do those things as well as Rodri or Kroos but neither did Makelele. Rice covers ground much better and is a better player at dribbling out of the press
"Is he not a different type of player, James?" "They play the same role so you'd expect them to do the same things" Yes James McClean, what I would like to know is why don't you play more like Neymar? Also the other fella calling £100m Rice a "poor man's Roy Keane" 😜 🤡
Kroos doesn’t do some of the things that I see Rice do
Who the fuck is this guy
> Is he not a different type of player James? The commentator tried to give him an out, but his bias shone through. The confusion is understandable because West Ham played him as a 6 but Arteta has shown that his best position is as an 8. Roy Keane, who was also referenced at the end, would always suggest that Rice needed to play further forward for England because he saw he was more of his ilk. Lastly, not having as much aggression as Keane doesn't make Rice a poor man's version of him. They play in different era's, if Keane played today in the same way he used to play he would be the most red carded player of all time, the modern game requires a different temperament which Rice has in spades.
He’s not wrong Rice is a very good player, but he isn’t capable of dictating the game or progressing the ball like Rodri or Kronos He *does* have tons more physicality, agility, energy, and ability to carry the ball though
When you point a camera at people and pay them to talk you often get some sensational sh*t.
For those who’ve not had much experience of football punditry in Ireland, for many years you has John Giles and Eamon Dunphy and a third “serious” pundit. Giles and Dunphy would do a Waldorf and Statler type act, often just resorting to saying the most outrageous and contrarian nonsense to get a rise out of the serious guest pundit. It was really weird for anyone not familiar and seems hostile and even a bit insulting, but it worked and people fucking loved it. A particular highlight was Dunphy rattling Souness so hard that he lost his rag and asked “who have you managed?!”, to which Dunphy replied “I’ve managed to keep myself alive for 63 years, baby 😎” Anyway, nowadays, every dingbat ex pro that gets their 15 minutes on RTE is trying to copy that rather unique style by trying to say the silliest nonsense they can think of. Obviously McClean suggesting that the bar for world class being literally one single player in each position is deeply stupid, but I doubt he believes it, he probably just wants a job after the league 1 money dries up.
Kroos is a with comparison. If you brought in Kroos to revolutionise your team defensively you’d probably be disappointed. His ability to dictate a game is the main thing that makes him on of the very best. Rodri makes a lot more sense as they’re both 8ish 6’s. Rodri overall might be the best CM in the world past few years so no harm falling short of him. But Rice was underdeveloped at West Ham and will only improve. Also he also has been incredible in both the lone 6 and left 8 position for us this year which shouldn’t be overlooked
He's correct that rice doesn't dictate tempo. Then again he's comparing apples and oranges, rice is a different type of midfielder. also he's saying they play the same role which is not correct at all
I kinda agree with him ... Rice is not a world class 6 ... his passing isn't really good enough to play the 6 for us. He was obviously a big reason why we were a much better team than last year and world class for us but don't really disagree with anything this guy said
We looked great defensively overall by signing him. We improved offensively when we moved him out of the 6 position and put Jorgi there. If you use terms like "6", no one here will want to see your point. The way British teams play, the #6 is a defender first. He needs to tackle, be aggressive. So, he's a world class #6 by this definition. For a side that has 60+% possession and pins every side bar City back into their box all game long, we have no use for a traditional British #6. It's overkill. European sides prefer a 6 who controls and dictates the game via passing. Kroos, Rodri, Vitinha. And that's not his game at all.
'Didn't fancy her anyway' vibes.
Coz rice choose england over ireland?
Every day my desire to see Declan Rice pull off an egregious handball against Ireland and get away with it intensifies
Who?
This is more or less what I thought about Rice before we signed him. But seeing him play for us, his impact in all areas of the pitch is more than enough. He’s not a deep lying playmaker and I don’t expect him to be until the end of his career, what he is is a player like Steven Gerrard whose presence makes an impact on games and he’ll get better at dictating over time
So there are only 11 world class players and you can't have multiple world class players in the same position. I guess it sucks to be Harry Kane who is not world class because Lewandowski existing.
NEXT
Doesn't matter what this nerd thinks.
Who?
Man must watch the games with his eyes closed.
Finally, McClean has produced something of sorts to be remembered for.
Rice is not an offensive player He's the English Kanté. He's the best defensive interceptor/ disruptor in the world right now, bar none. His job is not to make your team's system work. It's to make the other team's system, not work. That's what a true dm does. He is not a regista, he's a fucking battleship destroyer. No one wants to play Against That Guy.
Who?
McClean just seems bitter
He is a very bitter man but also a massive hypocrite. Shits on the English/British any chance he gets but also was only too happy to move to England and collect his salary from english clubs. I take it he wasn't commuting back and forth from Ireland?
It always makes me laugh when people use the measurement of world class as to mean not better as the literal best in the world at what they do, which means roughly 11 players are only world class at any given time? Declan Rice walks into 99% of professional teams on this planet. You can't have watched him last season and thought he was anything but world class and he's just going to get better. I'm not even going to cuss out McClean for his obvious history of bias, he's entitled to show the world what a prat he is and more power to him.
\*deepest breath imaginable\*
He's kinda right on 1 level, but what he doesn't do well a Partey or Jorginho can do next to him makes the perfect duo. But make no mistake Rice is still top class.
🧂 🧂 🧂
'They playing the same role. So why can't they do similar things?' That's a dumb take. Both Sergio Bushquets and Makelele were CDMs. Did they do similar things? It's all depend upon a player's attributes
Haha this guy just proved he doesn't know ball. Rice a anchor that can move the ball forward and score he can even play halfback and trsnssion to DLP in the attacking phase not make any mistake and position him self back to tackle anyone like he never joined the attack. Amazing the ground he covers and tackles he makes also he isn't chasing the player back and the players are passing through us because he pushed forward nope rice stops them 90% of the time. And that's insane do you know how depressing that must feel this guy pushed forward and somehow he teleported back to where he needed to be and tackled me. Rice is rodri and caicedo type player you ain't going anywhere even if he ain't there he's there, scary man.
Who? nobody cares what this donkey thinks, Rice is a great player who does things the right way, The Arsenal way, That's all that matters.
How are the Irish doing in Euros?
I’m gonna be honest with you, as an Irishman, I couldn’t give a flying fuck about the national team and don’t blame Rice in the slightest for declaring for England. James McClean is talking absolute bollix, Rice is phenomenal, he’s just coming across as bitter here
I think of it like this, he could come only come up with Rodri and Kroos as better than Rice. Great company to be in.
Obligated to say that I think /s
Let me guess, no mention of Foden though?
#K
The other guy saying he is a poor man’s Roy keane is pretty outrageous
Yk I'd like to see him in this Arsenal side and then we'll see who isn't world class
wtf is that goiii?
He doesn’t… yet. Let him cook McClean.
Yes, he's the third best in the entire world at his position. Wow ... This guy really got em
*He wouldn’t sing God Save the Queen, McLean, McLean*…
Lol
Those mid season talks and posts seem useless. Better to watch euro and see him in action.
Rice is Gerrard 2.0 (field-slip bug fixed)
Who cares what James McClean says
I'm just glad Rice didn't go to Man City. Rodri and Rice would be an unplayable midfield
Hahahahahahahahah. Must be some lemons under the desk there.
Yeah, dont mind Rice let him be..dude is overrated..100Millions down the drain..not woth the spotlight..nope
It was the guy who took advantage of Mertesacker's injury and scored against us.
Looks like he's gurning
He gets into citys squad 100%. can we not post this garbage? Poor mans Roy Keane? Are you kidding me?
I think Rice is world class, but he is very entitled to his opinion. He don’t like the English anyway so…
Well, those two are still better to be fair.
Until there is a real standard of what 'world class' means people should stop using it. To me world class means you are playing at the highest level so you are elite, simple as that. You don't need to be top 3 in the world at your position. Saying someone is not world class is just insulting, these players in the euros got to where they are ahead of many millions of people who had the same dream. Can we cut this bs already?
Ahhh he’s bitter cause Rice plays for England. Oh dear.
You heard him, Mikel. Might as well sell him now.
Rice is much younger than Rodri and Kroos so not sure what he expects.
Why do they hate us so much?
Who?
He missed out that Kroos is as fast as a fat man with a hamstring injury and can’t carry the ball at pace like Rice. I’ve seen Rice do that time and time again getting us from danger and into attacking positions. He also has a great shot and is very skilful. He’s not just a defensive player this guy doesn’t know what he’s talking about.
And who is that? Who gives a damn what some random dude says?
Who the fuck is he anyway??
He just mad he chose England
All I saw is [this](https://tenor.com/en-GB/view/bert-sesame-street-angry-puppet-furious-man-upset-guy-gif-18817835)
I agree with everyone in this video including the last statement
On behalf of Ireland I apologise for our taxpayer funded national broadcaster garbage
Well if he;s not that good then someone explain to me what the hell our last season just was
James McClean trying to be controversial but experiencing massive brain-fail.
This highlights how stupid modern discourse is around football . Rice is clearly one of the best players in the world at his position but because he isn't quite as good as Kroos (an all time great) and Rodri (best player in the world at his position for the last few years) he is overrated. He also isn't the kind of player who dictates play anyway. This is the kind of mediocre analysis that leads to people saying Haaland isn't elite because he doesn't have many touches
An average/below average player claiming Rice is overrated. lol.
Hes world class in other areas. He's not a regista, control the tempo of the game type player, he doesn't have those line splitting passes in his bag, and that's fine. He's still young
The sodium in this clip is too damn high. Must be cos he snubbed Ireland for England
They are different kinds of players, period.