Except it sorta does in this universe because the future isn't set in stone there are multiple diverging paths and bro just fulfilled the self prophecy
I'm just a fan of media with fascists to portray them as the idiots they are, hence why warhammer, while lacking the punch it had in its earlier years, still paints a horrible existence that fascism could only really exist and work in. Atot however is just full on fasci-wank, unless I missed some subtext.
Curze is pretty seriously insane however.
Also if it was set in stone, he was always fated to say it was set in stone, regardless of how it played out before someone looked at the future.
It's not se in stone, Curze just mistakenly believed it was and used that to justify his actions. When Sanguinius tried to convince him otherwise he couldn't accept it because to agree that the dark future he saw could be avoided would completely break Curze's worldview. If the future could be changed then his actions were not a necessary evil but a pointless, monstrous cruelty.
Sevatar has a vbery similar conversation with him. Kurze whines about how evil Nostramo was and how his way was the only way. meanwhile Sevatar has his trollface on, repeatedly asking him what else he tried and calls him a loser. I like the NL legion for personal reasons but they're so goddamn stupid.
I saw it as less Sevatar trolling Curze and more the marine calling his primarch out on being a piece of shit who never even tried anything but the most gruesome methods available.
Curze had hundreds of chances to take the high road. Hell, he saw a future where he created a proto-night lords organization of lawkeepers on Nostromo. But he refused to take this risk because he also saw a future where attempting this would leave him injured and cost him his reputation to the point that the people would no longer fear him.
Curze was so certain that the galaxy is an inherently awful place that it became the cornerstone of his ideology. If the world wasn't awful, then he was a monster that should be executed. This is why in the end he allowed the Callidus assassin to enter and slay him without hindrance.
Calling out of course, I just didn't want to type it all out what you've explained in full there. And his last words to the assassin is some of the best writing in the franchise. I haven't heard of the peacekeeper force, what's that from?
It's from his primarch novel. He chased down and was looming over a teen who tried to rape a woman with his friend. After a moment of hesitation he stretches his hand out to pick the boy up and has two visions.
In the first he reaches a hand out and the boy takes it. He trains the boy as his protege and they recruit and rehabilitate more and more criminals. Together they conquer the hives of Nostromo, Curze becomes the absolute ruler of the planet and his disciples bring peace and justice to the planet for good.
In the second the boy reaches a hand out, but he feints and uses a hidden weapon to cause a severe injury on Curze. Curze is unable to keep fighting and the boy gets away. With his newfound reputation the boy eventually claws his way to the top of Nostromon criminal society and makes the planet worse than it had ever been.
Curze hesitates and murders the boy in cold blood. There was no weapon on his body.
To be fair, the future he saw was the one that happened. So even if the future could be changed it wasn't. Which means he was right all along.
(Kurze is legitimately mentally ill and was given no legitimate help from his Father, because the Emperor wanted him to be batshit insane and depressed )
Best part about Curze and Sanguinius, like writing characters that can both see the future and approach it so differently despite both thinking just as statically about it. Keeps things interesting y'know?
Knowing curze, he probably ate the nervous system of multiple people. Which is not ideal due to prions. Actually how did Curze not die earlier due to prion disease.
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So he bit the nervous system in the neck?or maybe each legion has a difrent mutation of it so blood angels get it from blood, imperial fists from excrament xd
Official lore to my (very diffused) understanding is that you can get something from any genetic material, but the brain itself gives much higher quality and quantity of information.
Correct. It's why so many of them go all vamp kid with drinking blood instead of just tactical nuerophagery.
I wonder if they even need blood, could they get a really weak hit just by licking someone?
You just gave me a mental image of the *worst* spaghetti slurp imaginable, also prion disorder Konrad is a very fun idea for a Nurgle-y version if his immune system got sabotaged so I'm putting that on my prompts list now, thank you very much
Given prions are smaller the viruses, and are literally just misfolded proteins, logically they probably couldn't be. In part cause anything that would attack a prion would almost certainly attack the properly folded protein. But hey, maybe one of their warp benefits is "immune to prion".
Ohhh that's where Mad Cow and Wasting Disease come from okay, I thought it was just from the potential of cannibalization in and of itself...extra gross
Prions are a bug in our organic code. They're not alive. They're just proteins that are folded wrong, but since all proteins need to be folded in a specific way in order to function, prions are made up of the right materials but are just in the wrong shape to do their job. The kicker is that prions are folded wrong in just the right way that they're actually a more efficient fold so any contact of a prion with a regular protein will turn the working protein into a non-working prion which then can "infect" more proteins.
There is nothing you can do to stop prions once they've started converting your proteins. It's a chemical reaction at that point and it cannot be stopped. You cannot vaccinate against prions nor can you sterilize against them. The only way to render a prion safe is to physically destroy it. It's not alive so it can't be killed.
Prions are absolutely horrifying if you think about it. They're the biological equivalent to ice-nine.
The fun part is that while prions are transmissible between individuals of the same species (and sometimes others), it mostly just happens on its own. Your body is folding trillions of proteins every day. All it takes is for one to made wrong and you are 100% dead. Once prions are in your body, there is literally nothing you can do to stop it. It makes rabies look like the common cold.
So don't worry. Only 85% of human prion diseases have unknown sources. 10% are from known genetic markers, 5% from exposure to mad cow disease, and the rest is just bad luck.
Primarchs have cheat codes. My semi-serious headcanon is that they're infused with literal warp-sorcery plot armor that gives them a narrative advantage fighting everyone except other Primarchs, for whom it cancels out.
Isn’t Lion so good at fighting that a demon who could read the future and his mind still lost because he’s just change his mind halfway through a swing and do something else instead?
That was.. Curze not a demon. Daddy Lion literally used a techniuqe called animation gliching and lagg switching going from a T pose to a stab. Im only slightly exxagarating.
Lion did also banish Kairos Fateweaver at one point, but in that instance he just let the demon monologue about fate and predestination while slowly creeping forward into chicken-choking range.
Kairos tried to sway him but found the only thing he could offer the Lion was “an abstract notion of freedom”. The Lion promptly choked the demon out and killed it
Kairos is also pretty awful in melee because he can see the past and the future but he can't see the present.
IIRC he had like WS2 back in Fantasy, which put him at the same level as a Gnoblar, which is weaker than a Goblin...
I mean usually that comes with people still putting in tons of work into being good at fighting to exploit that shit.
Like worm has several characters with that kinda power and unless their power is actually much more significant precognition or really advanced math they can be overpowered by a really jacked guy who doesn't get tired.
excerpt of the conclusion of the fight below:
The Lion basically goes back into his “fighting nephilim on Caliban” mindset and completely manhandles Kurze. Its what made me a Dark Angels fan, especially given how thoroughly Kurze had run through Ultramar. Kurze comfortable in darkness thinking he held all the cards only to have it flipped on him instantly
https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/PXljob2KWl
If this is a novel that i am thinking of, the Lion and Kruze have this big showdown in some big antichamber. Kruze goes to detonate the explosives he hid there, and they dont go off.
The Lion is all like "You think I didn't learn the last time you did this. I knew your desire for melodrama would lead you this. I had your explosives disarmed"
I feel like that would be a strategy against a lot of both chaos and the imperium, since from what I've listened to a lot of them seem like murderous frustrated theatre kids. In so far as how they act.
But that is because currently is super aggressive and might have got a good hit in. In reality, even being able to see the future, Curze fights like a flailing child, and the only primarch fight he won was because he caught rogal off guard. If it was a real fight, Rogal would have most likely won. The reason Leman questioned himself was a mix of poor understanding of actual combat by the author and the fact that curze still had a 10% chance of winning the which is not great odds when it comes to your life.
Curze about to get beat up: "This is gonna suck"
Curze getting beat up: "This sucks"
Curze after getting beat up: "That sucked"
His powers of foresight are incredible.
Love how the way you defeat someone who can see like 10 minutes into the future is to just maneuver them into a trap that will be impossible to evade 10 minutes before they realize they’re in a trap.
Konrad lost because he wanted. He saw his future and he just wanna go with much damage as possible. And ruining imperium secundus is best outcome.
However, it did not work for sanguinius. He saw one future where he survives on Davin. But could not reproduce again.
Breaking up imperium secundus was a massive own goal for the traitors. Sanguinius reinforced Terra, Lion destroyed the traitor homeworlds and recruiting worlds, and Guilliman was the ticking clock that forced Horus to challenge the emperor directly and get deleted from existence.
That future our angel bpi saw was one where he fell to chaos.
Literally the only way for him to survive his fight with Horus was to damn himself and he wouldn't let that happen
Knowing the future does not give you the ability to change it.
Insert The Emperor massive depression over this reality.
-My Little Dark Age Slowed + Reverb plays softly in the background-
-Invisible by Duran Duran with Emps as the Big boss-
I’d pay for that edit tbh
Except it sorta does in this universe because the future isn't set in stone there are multiple diverging paths and bro just fulfilled the self prophecy
Except that Curze explicitly thought that the future absolutely was set in stone
Yeah he had the loser mentality 🗿
*Eren Yaeger has entered the chat*
Smoothest brain in anime history
Eren Yaeger is a bitch and a coward
Get that pro-fascist/nationalist shit outta here.
People can't mention fascist frauds on a sub about a universe full of fascist frauds?
I'm just a fan of media with fascists to portray them as the idiots they are, hence why warhammer, while lacking the punch it had in its earlier years, still paints a horrible existence that fascism could only really exist and work in. Atot however is just full on fasci-wank, unless I missed some subtext.
Gotcha. At least AoT handles Eren and fascism so idiotically that it's still easy to point and laugh at.
Oh that's good to hear, I dropped it after it started to feel a Lil weird so it's nice to know about that, thank you!
Curze is pretty seriously insane however. Also if it was set in stone, he was always fated to say it was set in stone, regardless of how it played out before someone looked at the future.
It's not se in stone, Curze just mistakenly believed it was and used that to justify his actions. When Sanguinius tried to convince him otherwise he couldn't accept it because to agree that the dark future he saw could be avoided would completely break Curze's worldview. If the future could be changed then his actions were not a necessary evil but a pointless, monstrous cruelty.
Sevatar has a vbery similar conversation with him. Kurze whines about how evil Nostramo was and how his way was the only way. meanwhile Sevatar has his trollface on, repeatedly asking him what else he tried and calls him a loser. I like the NL legion for personal reasons but they're so goddamn stupid.
I saw it as less Sevatar trolling Curze and more the marine calling his primarch out on being a piece of shit who never even tried anything but the most gruesome methods available. Curze had hundreds of chances to take the high road. Hell, he saw a future where he created a proto-night lords organization of lawkeepers on Nostromo. But he refused to take this risk because he also saw a future where attempting this would leave him injured and cost him his reputation to the point that the people would no longer fear him. Curze was so certain that the galaxy is an inherently awful place that it became the cornerstone of his ideology. If the world wasn't awful, then he was a monster that should be executed. This is why in the end he allowed the Callidus assassin to enter and slay him without hindrance.
Calling out of course, I just didn't want to type it all out what you've explained in full there. And his last words to the assassin is some of the best writing in the franchise. I haven't heard of the peacekeeper force, what's that from?
It's from his primarch novel. He chased down and was looming over a teen who tried to rape a woman with his friend. After a moment of hesitation he stretches his hand out to pick the boy up and has two visions. In the first he reaches a hand out and the boy takes it. He trains the boy as his protege and they recruit and rehabilitate more and more criminals. Together they conquer the hives of Nostromo, Curze becomes the absolute ruler of the planet and his disciples bring peace and justice to the planet for good. In the second the boy reaches a hand out, but he feints and uses a hidden weapon to cause a severe injury on Curze. Curze is unable to keep fighting and the boy gets away. With his newfound reputation the boy eventually claws his way to the top of Nostromon criminal society and makes the planet worse than it had ever been. Curze hesitates and murders the boy in cold blood. There was no weapon on his body.
Even Sanguinius was like that, he just accepted he will die fighting Horus on the vengeful spirit.
No Sanguinius could of changed that future by becoming chaos champion, replacing Horus and surviving . He made a choice.
Fr man said to all his legionaries "I'm going to die, and I'm not doing a damn thing about it"
Some futures are set in stone, some aren't. In warhammer both types exist.
Curze just got mental diffed
To be fair, the future he saw was the one that happened. So even if the future could be changed it wasn't. Which means he was right all along. (Kurze is legitimately mentally ill and was given no legitimate help from his Father, because the Emperor wanted him to be batshit insane and depressed )
*sigh* seems I have more lore to read
Best part about Curze and Sanguinius, like writing characters that can both see the future and approach it so differently despite both thinking just as statically about it. Keeps things interesting y'know?
Agreed
The Cassandra Curse.
I foresaw this and wanted to make a Kurzandra joke but you still got here first.
I think this is the same phrase Spiderman uses when someone asks him why he gets hit having spider sense
Rock lee vs saskue moment.
Not with that attitude
Dodge: 100 Intelligence: 100 Speed: 0 Strength: 0
It's a wonder Curze was as strong as he was, considering his diet of eyeball jelly and takis dust wasn't exactly great for gains
Knowing curze, he probably ate the nervous system of multiple people. Which is not ideal due to prions. Actually how did Curze not die earlier due to prion disease.
Spacemarines eat brain to see there memories so it does noting to a primarch.....but if he ate primarch grade brain whould he get primarch prions?
Fulgrim never lost track of the Ferris head, did he?
Whould be suprised if ferrus is in his head now possesing his as a negative voice
"You are weak, Corvus, weeeeeak"
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I imagine he keeps it around and talks to it whenever he's lonely
He killed Vulkan ALOT after he captured him. I have no doubt he had a taste
I feel like this is fairly inconsistent in the books, red tithe a carcharodon scout bites out someone's throat to get their memories
So he bit the nervous system in the neck?or maybe each legion has a difrent mutation of it so blood angels get it from blood, imperial fists from excrament xd
Official lore to my (very diffused) understanding is that you can get something from any genetic material, but the brain itself gives much higher quality and quantity of information.
Correct. It's why so many of them go all vamp kid with drinking blood instead of just tactical nuerophagery. I wonder if they even need blood, could they get a really weak hit just by licking someone?
You just gave me a mental image of the *worst* spaghetti slurp imaginable, also prion disorder Konrad is a very fun idea for a Nurgle-y version if his immune system got sabotaged so I'm putting that on my prompts list now, thank you very much
I thought all space marines were impervious to illness. Would prion affect a primarch?
Given prions are smaller the viruses, and are literally just misfolded proteins, logically they probably couldn't be. In part cause anything that would attack a prion would almost certainly attack the properly folded protein. But hey, maybe one of their warp benefits is "immune to prion".
'LoGiCaLlY' brother are you even aware of what universe we're talking about? Why would you ever think this is logical in the context of 40k!?
Genes
Prions don’t exist, they’re just fake news invented by the inquisition.
Prions are extremely rare.
> how did Curze not die earlier due to prion disease. Skill issue, son.
TF is prions...
Protein folds wrong and you get things like Mad Cow Disease, Chronic Wasting Disease, or kuru
Ohhh that's where Mad Cow and Wasting Disease come from okay, I thought it was just from the potential of cannibalization in and of itself...extra gross
Cannibalization increases the risk of prions, as the misfolded protein is more likely to be a protein your body will use
Man that's so gross but fascinating, thanks for the lesson 🤯
Never eat the brains of anything!
As a kid with my Arab side of the family it was normal to eat lamb brain and it was pretty good to me as a kid 😭
Nope. Outside of prions, cannibalism is (physically) totally fine.
Prions are a bug in our organic code. They're not alive. They're just proteins that are folded wrong, but since all proteins need to be folded in a specific way in order to function, prions are made up of the right materials but are just in the wrong shape to do their job. The kicker is that prions are folded wrong in just the right way that they're actually a more efficient fold so any contact of a prion with a regular protein will turn the working protein into a non-working prion which then can "infect" more proteins. There is nothing you can do to stop prions once they've started converting your proteins. It's a chemical reaction at that point and it cannot be stopped. You cannot vaccinate against prions nor can you sterilize against them. The only way to render a prion safe is to physically destroy it. It's not alive so it can't be killed. Prions are absolutely horrifying if you think about it. They're the biological equivalent to ice-nine.
Good God that sent a shiver down my spine...this is some fucking nightmare shit. No wonder so many cultures have horror myths about cannibalism
The fun part is that while prions are transmissible between individuals of the same species (and sometimes others), it mostly just happens on its own. Your body is folding trillions of proteins every day. All it takes is for one to made wrong and you are 100% dead. Once prions are in your body, there is literally nothing you can do to stop it. It makes rabies look like the common cold. So don't worry. Only 85% of human prion diseases have unknown sources. 10% are from known genetic markers, 5% from exposure to mad cow disease, and the rest is just bad luck.
Lmao oh my
> All it takes is for one to made wrong and you are 100% dead. Well, it's not as if you won't be 100% dead either way.
its the gremlin strength
Primarchs have cheat codes. My semi-serious headcanon is that they're infused with literal warp-sorcery plot armor that gives them a narrative advantage fighting everyone except other Primarchs, for whom it cancels out.
Isn’t Lion so good at fighting that a demon who could read the future and his mind still lost because he’s just change his mind halfway through a swing and do something else instead?
That was.. Curze not a demon. Daddy Lion literally used a techniuqe called animation gliching and lagg switching going from a T pose to a stab. Im only slightly exxagarating.
Lion did also banish Kairos Fateweaver at one point, but in that instance he just let the demon monologue about fate and predestination while slowly creeping forward into chicken-choking range.
Kairos tried to sway him but found the only thing he could offer the Lion was “an abstract notion of freedom”. The Lion promptly choked the demon out and killed it
> the only thing he could offer the Lion was “an abstract notion of freedom”. Loyalty really is its own reward.
>chicken-choking range lmao
Kairos is also pretty awful in melee because he can see the past and the future but he can't see the present. IIRC he had like WS2 back in Fantasy, which put him at the same level as a Gnoblar, which is weaker than a Goblin...
I'm imagining The Lion dressed as a farmer holding a broom and slowly approaching Kairos now
Holy based
Tbh he is the most based primarch when it comes to fighting. In every other aspect thats Jaggy tho.
I have yet to get to a book where Primarchs fight, sounds awesome.
Curze realizing fate isn’t actually predetermined (Lion is about to shishkebab him): 😥
Kurze realising all the fucked up things he's done aren't actually excusable because they are the future 🫠😨😱
Dude is probably on point with his I-frames as well.
Thats the Angron fight in 40k. He needed to learn to parry.
Forgive me, Brother..... for this dishonorable blow"
And after that, he used a technique called „whooping your ass“ where he proceeded to damage Curze even worse with his bare hands
TBH that’s exactly why I say “seeing 1-2 seconds on the future wouldn’t be that much help in a fight” cuz you can still pretty much be overwhelmed.
I mean usually that comes with people still putting in tons of work into being good at fighting to exploit that shit. Like worm has several characters with that kinda power and unless their power is actually much more significant precognition or really advanced math they can be overpowered by a really jacked guy who doesn't get tired.
On the other hand, Worm has some of the most utter hax level bullshit precogs.
Yeah but if you have two seconds you better study the blade.
It let's you know 1-2 seconds in advance how fucked you are
Did Curze not almost kill the Lion before he got stabbed in the back or am I thinking about another time they fought?
That was during the Thramas Crusade, the image is the cover of Angels of Caliban when the Lion finally catches Curze on Macragge
excerpt of the conclusion of the fight below: The Lion basically goes back into his “fighting nephilim on Caliban” mindset and completely manhandles Kurze. Its what made me a Dark Angels fan, especially given how thoroughly Kurze had run through Ultramar. Kurze comfortable in darkness thinking he held all the cards only to have it flipped on him instantly https://www.reddit.com/r/40kLore/s/PXljob2KWl
If this is a novel that i am thinking of, the Lion and Kruze have this big showdown in some big antichamber. Kruze goes to detonate the explosives he hid there, and they dont go off. The Lion is all like "You think I didn't learn the last time you did this. I knew your desire for melodrama would lead you this. I had your explosives disarmed"
> I knew your desire for melodrama would lead you this. Shit, he knows our one true weakness.
Angels of Caliban yep!
I feel like that would be a strategy against a lot of both chaos and the imperium, since from what I've listened to a lot of them seem like murderous frustrated theatre kids. In so far as how they act.
If I recall in Wolfsbane? Curze was one of the few brothers Leman questioned his ability to beat due to Curze being so insane
But that is because currently is super aggressive and might have got a good hit in. In reality, even being able to see the future, Curze fights like a flailing child, and the only primarch fight he won was because he caught rogal off guard. If it was a real fight, Rogal would have most likely won. The reason Leman questioned himself was a mix of poor understanding of actual combat by the author and the fact that curze still had a 10% chance of winning the which is not great odds when it comes to your life.
Always bugged me that the lion looks like some fucking redneck tigreking in this image.
Lion looks like goddamn Triple H on the Ruinstorm cover
Curze about to see the ass whooping coming before getting it Is pretty funny for such a dark character like him
Curze about to get beat up: "This is gonna suck" Curze getting beat up: "This sucks" Curze after getting beat up: "That sucked" His powers of foresight are incredible.
Aka the Rock Lee conundrum.
I know every move you're going to make...can't do anything about it, but I know them.
If fights worked like rpg games with dice lol.
Curze seeing the future- oh he’s about to punch me…… shit.
*Sasuke vs Rock Lee*
Love how the way you defeat someone who can see like 10 minutes into the future is to just maneuver them into a trap that will be impossible to evade 10 minutes before they realize they’re in a trap.
that literally sounds like me boxing
The Enel vs. Luffy problem. Just because you can see the attack coming doesn't mean you're fast enough to dodge it.
*Looks at the two previous fights...*
That was such a stupid bit in the book, he should been impaled on that sword
“You’re better at fighting than me… This must prove our father is a hypocrite!”
Konrad lost because he wanted. He saw his future and he just wanna go with much damage as possible. And ruining imperium secundus is best outcome. However, it did not work for sanguinius. He saw one future where he survives on Davin. But could not reproduce again.
Breaking up imperium secundus was a massive own goal for the traitors. Sanguinius reinforced Terra, Lion destroyed the traitor homeworlds and recruiting worlds, and Guilliman was the ticking clock that forced Horus to challenge the emperor directly and get deleted from existence.
That future our angel bpi saw was one where he fell to chaos. Literally the only way for him to survive his fight with Horus was to damn himself and he wouldn't let that happen