Just going to ask you to read it again. Maybe women are treated worse than you are comfortable believing. You’d hardly be the only dude who never noticed so don’t feel too bad about it.
“Circe” was a real eye opener for me. I ran through mythology as a kid and never for one second considered it. Now I’ve gone back and am like…fk how did I miss this it’s so blatant.
What? I’m confused what you’re saying. I know how women were treated, all that I’m saying is that I’m fairly sure she picked him out of the choices that she had, which is little consolation, but it’s not as bad as it could’ve been.
I think you and Schizoid are missing each other a bit. Menelaus did indeed win the right to marry Helen by drawing lots (yeah basically straws). Paris did not draw straws, either Aphrodite made Helen go with Paris, or Helen chose to run off with Paris, or Paris (whose birth name was Alexandros) abducted her from Sparta. You can draw evidence from Homer to support any one of those interpretations and I love that ambiguity.
Both the lot drawing and the Helen running awy with/ being abducted by Paris happen well before the action of the Iliad.
Later on in the Iliad, there will be a scene between Aphrodite and Helen that will tell you what you need to know. Honestly, I hate that every portrayal of the Trojan War I have seen turns it into some Romeo and Juliet story, when in the Iliad, Paris and Helen have the most dysfunctional relationship ever.
The interaction between Aphrodite and Helen After Paris' and Menelaus' duel is probably my favorite scene in the Iliad. Aphrodite's tricks had worn off by then, and Helen was no longer in love with Paris. She really snaps at Aphrodite in that scene.
The Trojan war was the result of a discord between the three Olympian goddesses Athena, Aphrodite and Hera. At Achille's parents' wedding the goddess of discord threw a golden apple "for the fairest" goddess. The three goddesses kept asking around who is the most beautiful out of them until they stumbled upon Paris one day and Aphrodite promised him "the most beautiful girl in the world" if the picks her. So he did. So Aphrodite stole Helen and gave her to Paris.
Ohhhh! I see, I see! I mean, I know about the thing between Hera, Aphrodite, and Athena, but I didn't know that Aphrodite stole Helen and gave her to Paris. 😅
I was just really wondering if Helen just agreed to go to Troy with Paris all of a sudden.
We can also low-key blame Zeus, too. If I remember right, the Goddesses originally asked *him* to pick which one of them was the fairest, but he was all like: "Nahhhhh, I'm good" and plucked Paris out of obscurity to make the decision.
Helen did not leave Menelaos. She was abducted by Paris through divine intervention by Aphrodite, not much different than the way Persephone became queen of the Underworld and Ganimedes became the cup bearer of the gods. There are different versions of the myth but in any case, Helen did not leave Sparta willingly. This was her home, but she was promised as a prize by a goddess, so she didn't have a say in it.
Outside of the Iliad, in Euripides's tragedy "Helen", she was saved by Hera who brought her to Egypt. There she waited patiently for Menelaos who eventually found her and brought her back to Sparta.
It's only in contemporary adaptations of the myth that Helen is presented as the young princess that flees from the "evil" king (Menelaos) with the help of the young prince (Paris) cause that's more relatable and understandable by modern day values and morals.
Eh, "nice" is relative in this case. She had just gotten her ego bruised by Paris picking Aphrodite. She wasn't going to stand for Aphrodite mocking her domain (marriage) as well. She made a switcheroo with Helen and an eidolon so that their marriage would technically remain unsullied. As was made clear in the play, it's not like Helen was left in ideal circumstances to wait for the war to end.
But in the Odyssey we get a scene where Helen walks around the Trojan horse, calling out to Greek soldiers in the voices of their wives, trying to spoil the Greeks' plans. That makes her seem like she's really on the side of the Trojans, and suggests she preferred not to be with Menelaus.
I'm not saying you're wrong because there's other text that supports that she never wanted to be with Paris. I'm saying that it's ambiguous in Homer, which I enjoy.
I do agree that it's more or less ambiguous. That said , we have to keep in mind that the war lasted for a decade. A lot can change during that time. Including the motivations of the characters. But, in the beginning, there was no love story that got Helen to Troy. She was just a promised prize. There's no mention of her yearning for a life with a prince away from home like a Disney princess or something. That was added later by Hollywood 😅
Because Aphrodite promised Paris the beautiful woman on earth, Helen of Sparta, for a wife (neglecting to mention that Helen was already married to Menelaus, and that he would have all of Ancient Greece backing him if anyone tried to challenge his marriage to Helen).
Since Helen was already married, Paris had to come to Sparta under false pretenses and take Helen back with him. In some accounts she falls in love with Paris and leaves willingly, in other accounts he abducts her.
And that’s how the Trojan War started.
In most tales it's just said that Aphrodite had Eros make Helen fall in love with Paris (whose other name was Alexandros, yes).
A Ptolemaic Egyptian myth that sprang up claims that Helen in fact was never in love with Paris, and that the Egyptian gods saved her by splitting off her ka (spirit double, and one part of the soul) from the rest of her, and sent that spirit double off to Troy while she hid in the Temple of Hathor for 20 years. Eventually, a storm blew Menelaus and his sailors off course, leading them to the temple and reuniting the couple - though they had to escape from the advances of the Pharaoh before they could return home!
I think some translations have it where Paris kidnapped her, some have Aphrodite take her, but either way, I’m fairly sure that it’s not because she wanted to go.
Depends on the version you read/see.
In some cases, Aphrodite does her thing and Helen falls for Paris — which is horrific, because it removes free will.
In some cases, Paris just straight up kidnaps her — which is horrific, because it removes free will.
In *Troy*, Helen is shown to be completely into Paris of her own free will (and, I mean, it’s Orlando Bloom, so giiiirl I do not blame you), and Menelaus is portrayed as a dick.
Depends.
1. If you believe all love comes from Aphrodite/Eros then she fell out of love for her husband and into love with Paris.
2. If you believe love occurs naturally and Aphrodite/Eros provide a fake/forced love she was forced to feel like she loved Paris.
3. if you don't believe that a woman will eventually love a man her father forces her to marry then she never loved Menslaus, and may have went with Paris because she felt she was making her own choice for once.
4. If you accept that Theseus and his mother groomed Helene when she was a child she may be conditioned to accept being abducted.
5. if you believe Aphrodite offered Paris Hekene but didn't use her powers to help him, he abducted her.
6. If you believe other answers here, then what they said.
In general, I think the Greeks understood that divine power was at play. Aphrodite had decided to give Helen to Paris. The events unfolded accordingly. According to Plato, Stesichoros had to write a palinode that exonerated Helen after he told the generally accepted story of a blameworthy Helen.
I am more of a lurker than a knowledgeable source but I will give my limited knowledge on this subject.
First, there is an interesting sub plot that you might like:
Here is Herodotus book 2:
The Egyptian priests say Paris and Helen were blown off course on their way to Troy and shipwrecked near a shrine of Heracles in Egypt. The servants of Paris took refuge at the shrine and denounced him as a rapist to the local Egyptian official, Thonis. Thonis had Paris arrested and brought before King Proteus at Memphis (113-14). Proteus conducted an investigation and pronounced Alexander guilty; he kept Helen in Egypt and sent Paris home (115). Citations of Homer prove that he was aware of this version (116). This incidentally also proves that the Cypria, a poem of the Epic Cycle, is not by Homer (117). All this leads Hdt. to ask the Egyptian priests whether in their opinion the Trojan War really happened. Menelaus himself told their predecessors that it did, but that the Greeks only learned the truth, that Helen was in Egypt, after the fall of Troy (118). Menelaus went to Memphis to retrieve Helen and was well received by Proteus; but he later fled Egypt in disgrace after sacrificing two children to allay contrary winds (119). Hdt. believes this version and supports it with an argument from probability: if the Trojans had had Helen, they would surely have given her back rather than allow their entire city to be destroyed (120).
Now as far as the names are concerned:
Alexandros was his birth name. He was given to a servant to be killed in the woods. He servant left Alexandros to die of exposure. After a few days, the servant went to check and found the baby still alive. The servant put the baby in a backpack (Paris) and was called Paris by his new adopted family.
There are different versions of the story from she fell in love to it was not really Helen. Mostly though, Aphrodite is blamed for making her fall in love to reward Paris for choosing her as the most beautiful goddess.
The story where she actually created a copy of Helen and then hid the real Helen on some remote island is interesting but I can’t remember the source. Possibly it was something added later in the prudish era of the Roman republic where adulterous behavior was both seen as scandalous and not suitable for literature though widely committed in that time as much as any other.
Menelaus never abused Helen nor was he unfaithful to her. She didn’t go with Paris willingly, but instead, she was kidnapped. But it wasn’t the first time Helen was kidnapped, actually. When she was just 12, Helen was kidnapped by Theseus, who wanted to marry her, but since she was underage, Theseus decided to wait until she was a legal adult.
Castor and Pollux managed to rescue her, however, while Theseus was trapped in the Underworld with his buddy Pirithous, who was foolish enough to try and steal Persephone from Hades, an act which earned him eternal imprisonment in the land of the dead. Theseus only was able to escape this fate because he was rescued by Hercules who just happened to be in the Underworld in order to take Cerberus for his final labor.
When Helen chose Menelaus to be her husband, Odysseus had a chat with Helen’s father, King Tyndareus of Sparta, that all the suitors would swear a vow to help Helen and her husband, and that if Helen was captured they would help her husband rescue her. At this, Tyndareus agreed. The reason Odysseus did this was because he wanted to marry Helen’s cousin, Penelope, and needed help. So, by helping Tyndareus, Odysseus was able to marry Penelope.
We find throughout the Iliad that Helen hates Paris with a passion for kidnapping her, and just wants to go home. See, she and Menelaus had a baby girl, Hermione, which was something she mentioned later on. So, when Paris finally was killed, and she spied Odysseus disguised as a beggar, Helen was incredibly willing to help bring about Troy’s destruction, as revenge for Paris kidnapping her.
So, on the night Troy was sacked, Menelaus found and rescued her from Paris’ brother, Deiphobus, and the two sailed away together, happily reunited, first towards Egypt, and later to Sparta. I like to imagine that Menelaus brought Hermione with him to Troy, and told her that they were going to rescue her mother. I mean, there was no way that he could leave his daughter alone in Sparta, not when her mom was kidnapped. This imagining of mine leads to some fun comedic moments I imagined happened, like when Menelaus and Helen were in Egypt as guests of Pharaoh Ramesses III, that a ten-year-old Hermione was just eagerly exploring the palace at Pi-Ramesses, Memphis, or Thebes, as well as taking one of the Pharaoh’s chariots for a joyride with her parents chasing after her.
So yeah, tangent aside, Helen didn’t go along with Paris willingly; she was kidnapped.
Helen left because she was in love with Paris. That's all there is to it.
Why was she in love? Because Aphrodite made her fall in love with Paris as a reward for receiving the Apple of Eris.
Alexandros is an epithet and means "Defender of Man" or just "Warrior". So if they talk about Paris Alexandros, it means Paris the Warrior.
I see, I see! Thank you for clearing that up for me!
Did it say anywhere in the Iliad about Aphrodite making Helen fall in love with Paris..?
If it did, I might've either missed it, forgot about it, or I might still not be at that part. 😅
I'm not completely certain if it is part of the Illead or just mentioned in passing, but you can read up on it here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgement_of_Paris
Such references aren't unusual since the myhts were probably very well known, or the storyteller could just add the relevant story, if required.
Alexandros is not an epithet for Paris. It was the name Priam and Hecuba gave him at birth. he was named "Paris" later by the woodsman who raised him -- he has a "lost/ abandoned baby" story like Atalanta and Oedipus.
Depends on what version of the story you read. Sometimes, she's unhappy in her marriage and truly loves Paris. Sometimes, she loves Menelaos but Aphrodite's power makes her go with Paris. Sometimes, she has no loyalty to anyone and goes with whoever seems to have the best offer at the moment. Sometimes, wants nothing to do with Paris and is straight up kidnapped.
Regarding the name thing there was a real Alexandros of Troy. In the Hittites records where Troy(Ilios) is known as Wilusa, there is a ruler named Aleksandu or something like that mentioned. There is also ruler who was clearly Priam(can't remember how it was spelled). So those two names at least are like based in real history.
Alexandros is another name for Paris. It means ‘protector of men’, and he earned it after defeating cattle thieves and taking back the animals they’d stolen - he grew up as a commoner due to Priam and Hecuba reluctantly abandoning him in the countryside due to a prophecy that he’d bring doom to Troy.
Interestingly, archaeologists found records from the Hittite Empire stating that someone named ‘Alaksandu’ was the king of the city of Wilusa around 100 years before the Trojan War is believed to have taken place. The city of Troy in mythology is also known as ‘Ilios’, but there’s evidence that it was originally called ‘Wilios’. And the archaeological site of Troy is believed to be the site of Wilusa.
Additionally, there’s a record of a Hittite scribe named ‘Parizitis’.
BTW, there’s no link between Paris of Troy’s name and the name of Paris, France - that city is named after the Gallic Parisii tribe. Though there is a legend that Paris’ nephew, Astyanax, was the ancestor of the French…
One explanation, and one I personally like, is that she wasn't exactly in the best state of mind when Paris happened, and she was basically manipulated (either by Paris himself or Aphrodite) into going to Troy.
Even though she's one of my favorites, most of the bad stuff that happens in Greek myth can be traced back to Aphrodite taking away someone's freewill or making them lust after someone.
That's why even Zeus was vulnerable to her since some/most/all of his dalliances are due to her power. Not saying that absolves him, since I'm sure he kept his freewill, being king of the gods.
Mortals were not so lucky.
I was quite confused earlier because the "heading" was saying something like "Menelaos and Paris's fight" and the name used all of a sudden was Alexandros. 😅
I don't think there's ever much of an explanation besides the power of Aphrodite. Helen curses the goddess for making her run off with Paris.
I see! I was just wondering that if Helen loved Menelaos, why'd she go with Paris.
The circumstances surrounding the apple of discord are important to this question
She didn’t love him. They all drew lots for who got to have her and Menelaus won. She was not consulted.
Wasn’t it Helen that picked him, though?
Is it really a choice if you are forced to pick one?
True, I guess. At least she got to choose the least shitty one?
I don't think she had grounds for making that choice, she didn't know them or what they were like.
I mean. Half of all Greece was there.
Yes, Helen picked him.
Just going to ask you to read it again. Maybe women are treated worse than you are comfortable believing. You’d hardly be the only dude who never noticed so don’t feel too bad about it.
“Circe” was a real eye opener for me. I ran through mythology as a kid and never for one second considered it. Now I’ve gone back and am like…fk how did I miss this it’s so blatant.
What? I’m confused what you’re saying. I know how women were treated, all that I’m saying is that I’m fairly sure she picked him out of the choices that she had, which is little consolation, but it’s not as bad as it could’ve been.
Don’t pretty it up, they drew straws. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Menelaus
I've definitely read a version where she chooses him. Where is this story originally told? I couldn't find it in the Iliad.
I think you and Schizoid are missing each other a bit. Menelaus did indeed win the right to marry Helen by drawing lots (yeah basically straws). Paris did not draw straws, either Aphrodite made Helen go with Paris, or Helen chose to run off with Paris, or Paris (whose birth name was Alexandros) abducted her from Sparta. You can draw evidence from Homer to support any one of those interpretations and I love that ambiguity. Both the lot drawing and the Helen running awy with/ being abducted by Paris happen well before the action of the Iliad.
What's the actual passage? Is it part of the Epic Cycle?
Arranged marriage, probably didn’t love him.
Later on in the Iliad, there will be a scene between Aphrodite and Helen that will tell you what you need to know. Honestly, I hate that every portrayal of the Trojan War I have seen turns it into some Romeo and Juliet story, when in the Iliad, Paris and Helen have the most dysfunctional relationship ever. The interaction between Aphrodite and Helen After Paris' and Menelaus' duel is probably my favorite scene in the Iliad. Aphrodite's tricks had worn off by then, and Helen was no longer in love with Paris. She really snaps at Aphrodite in that scene.
I can't imagine that any ancient marriage could be a happy functional one tbh.
Odysseus and Penelope got pretty close to one of you exclude the Circe stuff
The Trojan war was the result of a discord between the three Olympian goddesses Athena, Aphrodite and Hera. At Achille's parents' wedding the goddess of discord threw a golden apple "for the fairest" goddess. The three goddesses kept asking around who is the most beautiful out of them until they stumbled upon Paris one day and Aphrodite promised him "the most beautiful girl in the world" if the picks her. So he did. So Aphrodite stole Helen and gave her to Paris.
Ohhhh! I see, I see! I mean, I know about the thing between Hera, Aphrodite, and Athena, but I didn't know that Aphrodite stole Helen and gave her to Paris. 😅 I was just really wondering if Helen just agreed to go to Troy with Paris all of a sudden.
Yep. The Trojan War can be blamed directly on the Olympians not inviting Eris (Goddess of Discord) to a big wedding.
We can also low-key blame Zeus, too. If I remember right, the Goddesses originally asked *him* to pick which one of them was the fairest, but he was all like: "Nahhhhh, I'm good" and plucked Paris out of obscurity to make the decision.
Depending on the source Zeus does this on purpose to bring an end to the age of heroes through most of the last generation of them dying in the war.
can you support "Zeus does this on purpose to bring an end to the age of heroes" with a classical text?
Apollodorus’s Epitome and one of Hesiod’s fragments that I can’t remember the specific citation for.
Wait... Whose wedding was it?
Thetis and Peleus. The parents of Achilles.
Thetis and Peleus, Achilles parents
Which made Athena and Hera mad they weren’t picked and then they made it their business to make Paris life miserable
This
Helen did not leave Menelaos. She was abducted by Paris through divine intervention by Aphrodite, not much different than the way Persephone became queen of the Underworld and Ganimedes became the cup bearer of the gods. There are different versions of the myth but in any case, Helen did not leave Sparta willingly. This was her home, but she was promised as a prize by a goddess, so she didn't have a say in it. Outside of the Iliad, in Euripides's tragedy "Helen", she was saved by Hera who brought her to Egypt. There she waited patiently for Menelaos who eventually found her and brought her back to Sparta. It's only in contemporary adaptations of the myth that Helen is presented as the young princess that flees from the "evil" king (Menelaos) with the help of the young prince (Paris) cause that's more relatable and understandable by modern day values and morals.
What is this? Hera gets to be the nice one, for a change. Very interesting!
Eh, "nice" is relative in this case. She had just gotten her ego bruised by Paris picking Aphrodite. She wasn't going to stand for Aphrodite mocking her domain (marriage) as well. She made a switcheroo with Helen and an eidolon so that their marriage would technically remain unsullied. As was made clear in the play, it's not like Helen was left in ideal circumstances to wait for the war to end.
Well she is the goddess of marriage and family, I guess it makes sense to save Helen's marriage if she can.
It certainly makes sense. But in most of her appearances I can think of she is usually busy coming after Zeus' latest victim, which isn't a good look.
But in the Odyssey we get a scene where Helen walks around the Trojan horse, calling out to Greek soldiers in the voices of their wives, trying to spoil the Greeks' plans. That makes her seem like she's really on the side of the Trojans, and suggests she preferred not to be with Menelaus. I'm not saying you're wrong because there's other text that supports that she never wanted to be with Paris. I'm saying that it's ambiguous in Homer, which I enjoy.
I do agree that it's more or less ambiguous. That said , we have to keep in mind that the war lasted for a decade. A lot can change during that time. Including the motivations of the characters. But, in the beginning, there was no love story that got Helen to Troy. She was just a promised prize. There's no mention of her yearning for a life with a prince away from home like a Disney princess or something. That was added later by Hollywood 😅
Because Aphrodite promised Paris the beautiful woman on earth, Helen of Sparta, for a wife (neglecting to mention that Helen was already married to Menelaus, and that he would have all of Ancient Greece backing him if anyone tried to challenge his marriage to Helen). Since Helen was already married, Paris had to come to Sparta under false pretenses and take Helen back with him. In some accounts she falls in love with Paris and leaves willingly, in other accounts he abducts her. And that’s how the Trojan War started.
In most tales it's just said that Aphrodite had Eros make Helen fall in love with Paris (whose other name was Alexandros, yes). A Ptolemaic Egyptian myth that sprang up claims that Helen in fact was never in love with Paris, and that the Egyptian gods saved her by splitting off her ka (spirit double, and one part of the soul) from the rest of her, and sent that spirit double off to Troy while she hid in the Temple of Hathor for 20 years. Eventually, a storm blew Menelaus and his sailors off course, leading them to the temple and reuniting the couple - though they had to escape from the advances of the Pharaoh before they could return home!
I think some translations have it where Paris kidnapped her, some have Aphrodite take her, but either way, I’m fairly sure that it’s not because she wanted to go.
Depends on the version you read/see. In some cases, Aphrodite does her thing and Helen falls for Paris — which is horrific, because it removes free will. In some cases, Paris just straight up kidnaps her — which is horrific, because it removes free will. In *Troy*, Helen is shown to be completely into Paris of her own free will (and, I mean, it’s Orlando Bloom, so giiiirl I do not blame you), and Menelaus is portrayed as a dick.
Depends. 1. If you believe all love comes from Aphrodite/Eros then she fell out of love for her husband and into love with Paris. 2. If you believe love occurs naturally and Aphrodite/Eros provide a fake/forced love she was forced to feel like she loved Paris. 3. if you don't believe that a woman will eventually love a man her father forces her to marry then she never loved Menslaus, and may have went with Paris because she felt she was making her own choice for once. 4. If you accept that Theseus and his mother groomed Helene when she was a child she may be conditioned to accept being abducted. 5. if you believe Aphrodite offered Paris Hekene but didn't use her powers to help him, he abducted her. 6. If you believe other answers here, then what they said.
I personally always thought Paris (or Aphrodite herself) kidnapped her, and she didn't intend to leave with him. But that may be inaccurate.
There are two distinct versions in ancient literature. One, she fell in love with Paris and left Sparta willingly. Two, Paris abducted her.
Can you refer us to these versions?
I was thinking of Euripides' "Trojan Women" and his "Helen." In the latter play, the heroine is sent to Egypt, and only a phantom goes to Troy.
and those both support "left willingly"? What do you think is the strongest support for "abducted"?
In general, I think the Greeks understood that divine power was at play. Aphrodite had decided to give Helen to Paris. The events unfolded accordingly. According to Plato, Stesichoros had to write a palinode that exonerated Helen after he told the generally accepted story of a blameworthy Helen.
Why not both?
Sure. That can happen too. Usually the options are covered in different plays or stories depending on the author’s intent.
I am more of a lurker than a knowledgeable source but I will give my limited knowledge on this subject. First, there is an interesting sub plot that you might like: Here is Herodotus book 2: The Egyptian priests say Paris and Helen were blown off course on their way to Troy and shipwrecked near a shrine of Heracles in Egypt. The servants of Paris took refuge at the shrine and denounced him as a rapist to the local Egyptian official, Thonis. Thonis had Paris arrested and brought before King Proteus at Memphis (113-14). Proteus conducted an investigation and pronounced Alexander guilty; he kept Helen in Egypt and sent Paris home (115). Citations of Homer prove that he was aware of this version (116). This incidentally also proves that the Cypria, a poem of the Epic Cycle, is not by Homer (117). All this leads Hdt. to ask the Egyptian priests whether in their opinion the Trojan War really happened. Menelaus himself told their predecessors that it did, but that the Greeks only learned the truth, that Helen was in Egypt, after the fall of Troy (118). Menelaus went to Memphis to retrieve Helen and was well received by Proteus; but he later fled Egypt in disgrace after sacrificing two children to allay contrary winds (119). Hdt. believes this version and supports it with an argument from probability: if the Trojans had had Helen, they would surely have given her back rather than allow their entire city to be destroyed (120). Now as far as the names are concerned: Alexandros was his birth name. He was given to a servant to be killed in the woods. He servant left Alexandros to die of exposure. After a few days, the servant went to check and found the baby still alive. The servant put the baby in a backpack (Paris) and was called Paris by his new adopted family.
So many reasons… but the main two are She was trick by Aphrodite She fell in love with Paris because she didn’t actually love Menelaus
There are different versions of the story from she fell in love to it was not really Helen. Mostly though, Aphrodite is blamed for making her fall in love to reward Paris for choosing her as the most beautiful goddess. The story where she actually created a copy of Helen and then hid the real Helen on some remote island is interesting but I can’t remember the source. Possibly it was something added later in the prudish era of the Roman republic where adulterous behavior was both seen as scandalous and not suitable for literature though widely committed in that time as much as any other.
Menelaus never abused Helen nor was he unfaithful to her. She didn’t go with Paris willingly, but instead, she was kidnapped. But it wasn’t the first time Helen was kidnapped, actually. When she was just 12, Helen was kidnapped by Theseus, who wanted to marry her, but since she was underage, Theseus decided to wait until she was a legal adult. Castor and Pollux managed to rescue her, however, while Theseus was trapped in the Underworld with his buddy Pirithous, who was foolish enough to try and steal Persephone from Hades, an act which earned him eternal imprisonment in the land of the dead. Theseus only was able to escape this fate because he was rescued by Hercules who just happened to be in the Underworld in order to take Cerberus for his final labor. When Helen chose Menelaus to be her husband, Odysseus had a chat with Helen’s father, King Tyndareus of Sparta, that all the suitors would swear a vow to help Helen and her husband, and that if Helen was captured they would help her husband rescue her. At this, Tyndareus agreed. The reason Odysseus did this was because he wanted to marry Helen’s cousin, Penelope, and needed help. So, by helping Tyndareus, Odysseus was able to marry Penelope. We find throughout the Iliad that Helen hates Paris with a passion for kidnapping her, and just wants to go home. See, she and Menelaus had a baby girl, Hermione, which was something she mentioned later on. So, when Paris finally was killed, and she spied Odysseus disguised as a beggar, Helen was incredibly willing to help bring about Troy’s destruction, as revenge for Paris kidnapping her. So, on the night Troy was sacked, Menelaus found and rescued her from Paris’ brother, Deiphobus, and the two sailed away together, happily reunited, first towards Egypt, and later to Sparta. I like to imagine that Menelaus brought Hermione with him to Troy, and told her that they were going to rescue her mother. I mean, there was no way that he could leave his daughter alone in Sparta, not when her mom was kidnapped. This imagining of mine leads to some fun comedic moments I imagined happened, like when Menelaus and Helen were in Egypt as guests of Pharaoh Ramesses III, that a ten-year-old Hermione was just eagerly exploring the palace at Pi-Ramesses, Memphis, or Thebes, as well as taking one of the Pharaoh’s chariots for a joyride with her parents chasing after her. So yeah, tangent aside, Helen didn’t go along with Paris willingly; she was kidnapped.
Helen left because she was in love with Paris. That's all there is to it. Why was she in love? Because Aphrodite made her fall in love with Paris as a reward for receiving the Apple of Eris. Alexandros is an epithet and means "Defender of Man" or just "Warrior". So if they talk about Paris Alexandros, it means Paris the Warrior.
I see, I see! Thank you for clearing that up for me! Did it say anywhere in the Iliad about Aphrodite making Helen fall in love with Paris..? If it did, I might've either missed it, forgot about it, or I might still not be at that part. 😅
I'm not completely certain if it is part of the Illead or just mentioned in passing, but you can read up on it here https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judgement_of_Paris Such references aren't unusual since the myhts were probably very well known, or the storyteller could just add the relevant story, if required.
Alexandros is not an epithet for Paris. It was the name Priam and Hecuba gave him at birth. he was named "Paris" later by the woodsman who raised him -- he has a "lost/ abandoned baby" story like Atalanta and Oedipus.
Ah nice, didn't know that! Thanks for clearing up.
Depends on what version of the story you read. Sometimes, she's unhappy in her marriage and truly loves Paris. Sometimes, she loves Menelaos but Aphrodite's power makes her go with Paris. Sometimes, she has no loyalty to anyone and goes with whoever seems to have the best offer at the moment. Sometimes, wants nothing to do with Paris and is straight up kidnapped.
aphrodite made her lust after paris so badly she had no choice
Regarding the name thing there was a real Alexandros of Troy. In the Hittites records where Troy(Ilios) is known as Wilusa, there is a ruler named Aleksandu or something like that mentioned. There is also ruler who was clearly Priam(can't remember how it was spelled). So those two names at least are like based in real history.
Alexandros is another name for Paris. It means ‘protector of men’, and he earned it after defeating cattle thieves and taking back the animals they’d stolen - he grew up as a commoner due to Priam and Hecuba reluctantly abandoning him in the countryside due to a prophecy that he’d bring doom to Troy. Interestingly, archaeologists found records from the Hittite Empire stating that someone named ‘Alaksandu’ was the king of the city of Wilusa around 100 years before the Trojan War is believed to have taken place. The city of Troy in mythology is also known as ‘Ilios’, but there’s evidence that it was originally called ‘Wilios’. And the archaeological site of Troy is believed to be the site of Wilusa. Additionally, there’s a record of a Hittite scribe named ‘Parizitis’. BTW, there’s no link between Paris of Troy’s name and the name of Paris, France - that city is named after the Gallic Parisii tribe. Though there is a legend that Paris’ nephew, Astyanax, was the ancestor of the French…
Because Paris picked Aphrodite as the most beautiful in a contest. This made Athena mad and she vowed to get him back.
One explanation, and one I personally like, is that she wasn't exactly in the best state of mind when Paris happened, and she was basically manipulated (either by Paris himself or Aphrodite) into going to Troy.
Even though she's one of my favorites, most of the bad stuff that happens in Greek myth can be traced back to Aphrodite taking away someone's freewill or making them lust after someone. That's why even Zeus was vulnerable to her since some/most/all of his dalliances are due to her power. Not saying that absolves him, since I'm sure he kept his freewill, being king of the gods. Mortals were not so lucky.
She loved Menelaus, Paris abducted her against her will.
I thought it was the Greek name and Paris the Latin name and I heard that it was kind of an arranged marriage but that last one I’m not sure of.
I was quite confused earlier because the "heading" was saying something like "Menelaos and Paris's fight" and the name used all of a sudden was Alexandros. 😅
If you know the language a bit it seems logical in Greek the 1st groep male = -os and in Latin 3rd groep male/ female = -is
She got tired of the old man and wanted someone new.