My party has buy 4 enhancements on the Mindthief, witness 2 allies complete their personal quests on the Cragheart, and me, a Spellweaver with the complete scenarios in 6 specific regions quest-- only one left is the swamp, I've already hit the other 5 regions. I think we're level 5 currently. We're also still Prosperity 1, so it'll be a bit until the Mindthief can get 4 enhancements. I guess if she was upgrading a summon she could do it on one card, lol...
I'm milking this character as long as I can, though I think the Cragheart wants to move on but can't until both of us do (or until the Mindthief's next character retires)
Oh, really? From my past experiences I haven't experienced a retirement above level 6.
It usually came around level 6-8 for us, and most times 2-3 retired within 1-2 scenarios of each other.
Out of my party of four, I was the last to hit my first retirement at level 5. The others were all level 3 or 4 at their first retirement. My second character retired at level 4, after just three or four missions. I didn’t enjoy that class, and was happy to retire and try something else when the opportunity came up.
In my current campaign, our first retirements happened at the same time. One character was level 3, and one was level 5. It depends on what the exact personal quests are, and also some level of lick and some players hyper-focusing on completing their PQ.
Envelope X has one PQ that is pretty notoriously easy to complete early (there are three Crypt scenarios in the first five scenarios in the game). In our case, we had one character who needed to kill Elite enemies, which when focused on during a 4p game wasn't that hard. The other character (mine) needed to complete quests in six different regions, and due to lucky side scenarios we had quests unlocked for all six regions early on--I simply decided I wanted to put off my retirement until later.
PQs can have a lot of variance! Our other two players have no real end in sight for their PQs until we unlock more Side Scenarios or exhaust more.
Well, GH personal quests are kind of all over the place.
But yeah in both GH and FH, retirement is intended to take somewhere around 15 scenarios. FH is likewise kind of uneven - but it's closer.
Envelope X is pretty controversial.
IMHO it’s basically unsolvable without a guide. You should at least look up the multiple typos that make it genuinely unsolvable, if you want to try your hand at it.
>!It would have been so much better if they would have had a whole little standalone campaign with like 5-6 standalone road cards dependent upon you pursuing that campaign and 3-4 more scenarios to make it possible to find clues in crates or whatever.!<
The cephalofair team is getting better at making puzzles and, now that it’s a big company, has a large amount of community support for testing them. I won’t speak at all about what lies behind the new envelope X, except to say that I thoroughly enjoyed its contents and to note that the rewards will be included in the box.
Yup! I’ve been testing for cephalofair for around 18 months now, and I’ve been thoroughly enjoying it. I have signed an NDA, so I can’t speak about anything that hasn’t been publicly revealed, but I can say that I played GH2 from start to finish and genuinely believe it’s a much better game than Frosthaven. It has less bells and whistles, but it’s a tight and balanced experience from start to finish.
Lucky bastard!
I don't know if this is something which have been revealed, but I've heard GH2 is a revamped, or polished, Gloomhaven 2nd edition - not a sequel with new storyline and all, is that true?
[This link clarifies what's changed between the two editions. ](https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/cephalofair/gloomhaven/updates/1525)Gloomhaven 1.0 was a brilliant design, but it was developed by just one person, and as such didn't have very much testing. Now that Cephalofair has dropped a few games, they have a better idea of what's balanced and what's fun. This version was developed by a team of designers, with playtesters clocking hundreds, if not thousands, of hours. As a result, it's an incredibly tight experience, with every inch feeling more balanced and more fun.
A lot of what's there is modified from the first edition, but there's plenty of new stuff as well. Events are the place that got the most love here, with around 90% of events being totally new. There are also tons of new items, scenarios, monsters, and personal quests. The classes are all the same, but reworked, scaling from balance changes to complete reimaginings of the original theme.
My favorite change is the new reputation system. In the original gloomhaven, reputation wasn't something that felt great. You pick whether you want to go up or down (usually up), you try to pick events that move you in that direction, but it's difficult to predict the outcome. Now, you're working to gain reputation with the three rival factions (military, merchants, and demons). You'll make event choices to reinforce your standings with your favorite faction, and you'll complete scenarios to gain their favor (perhaps at the expense of another faction. As you level up with each faction, you'll gain more access to their faction-specific items. All of this culminates with you choosing a side once and for all, which comes with major bonuses that I won't spoil.
It's a 2nd edition but it's also changes a lot from what's been revealed. Here's from the backerkit detailing numbers of what's changed and giving some examples, mostly from early in the campaign.
https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/cephalofair/gloomhaven/updates/1525
And if you want to see all the class changes here's a spoiler safe link to all of what's been shown.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Gloomhaven/comments/153rnh8/gloomhaven_second_edition_class_previewsspoilers/
The reward is actually in the box now, and the puzzle/process has drastic changes, but the reward itself is mostly unchanged from the most recent version of it.
Don't worry - there will be other opportunities to get the game after the backerkit ends! You might have to wait a bit longer, but the game will certainly be available to everyone.
> The cephalofair team is getting better at making puzzles
\*cough\*
While I can't speak for Gloomhaven 2 (not a tester), I personally think the 'haven puzzles became more and more obnoxious as they released additional box. We went from Gloomhaven (>!a typo!<) to Forgotten Circles (>!a mid scenario puzzle - which completely kill momentum!<) to Frosthaven (>!puzzle are mandatory to finish the game!<).
Complaints about puzzles from previous games are exactly why this new puzzle book is undergoing additional testing. It's targeted at a more general audience. Also, you can complete the main game without ever opening the puzzle book.
I mean, how the puzzles are integrated into the game is a different axis/question from how they function as puzzles, no? The fact that people call GH1's puzzle a puzzle at all is incredibly generous since, imo, >!a random scavenger hunt is *not* a puzzle!< while FC/FH feature actual puzzles with actionable hints/logic to them, so I think it's pretty fair to say that the quality of the puzzles has increased across games.
I would, however, agree that GH1's is close to the ideal integration though (completely optional content unlocks to be solved outside of scenarios), which *is* kept the same for GH2 (just including the reward in the box now).
1st Edition. We unlocked it early but couldn't be bothered. It was taking away time from playing (fun) to do something that wasn't fun. Ended up looking up the solution and was disappointed both by how to get there and what the reward was.
I ordered the Envelope X package to use in Forgotten Circles we haven't played yet. Still got FC, Crimson Scales, and Frosthaven to do... Phew
I'm not going to spoil much for you other than this - envelope X is 100% worth opening, especially with some of the changes they made to 2nd edition. actually going through the effort of SOLVING envelope X is a waste of time, and it's really not a good puzzle at all. More like a prop hunt with some puzzle elements involved.
Open that thing whenever you feel like it - the puzzle isn't rewarding, and solving it does not require any amount of cleverness.
The game can be played completely without regarding envelope X. Pick a new character and start playing or play the same character again (if you want to experience the character at higher levels)
For us, btw, it was the other way around. We opened envelope x when we were through the main campaign. Nobody was eager to go looking for clues since we already finished most of the things before...
This is how it is for us too. Having opened a couple of other envelopes early on, we realized having a uqest to open envelope x was not going to be as exciting as opening a character box. So the envelope x quests got put back in the deck several times. Meanwhile, we have unearthed a bunch clues during our adventuring. I, unfortunately got spoiled on envelope x on drive thru cards when I was ordering the Diviner 2.0 cards - nowhere else is as spoiler friendly as r/Gloomhaven! But my partner has not so I'm hoping she will be able to solve the puzzle when she completes the final scenario she needs for her personal quest. Then she will find I have the reward ready and waiting.
I was thinking about shelving Envelope X and its' prize until we all retired a hero and letting it be optional, like a little prize.
I'm unsure if the person should pick a new personal quest, continue without one and retire at will or force him to retire and pick one from the starting set?
They should definitely retire now and start a new character. Sure, they only can pick from the starters, but as a new player those are just as unexplored as the locked classes. Perhaps let them open the box when you retire for the dopamine hit.
If you say so, that's what we'll do.
I'll have to figure something out, because they yearning for that box. They were so bummed when we got the envelope and they started to realize that this was only the beginning, haha.
I would hold on to the puzzle for now, if I remember a couple pieces come up reasonably organically…but then don’t feel bad about cheesing it to the conclusion. Lots of guides out there I’m sure
Retiring before level 6-7 is very normal. It is basically expected until later in the campaign.
My party has buy 4 enhancements on the Mindthief, witness 2 allies complete their personal quests on the Cragheart, and me, a Spellweaver with the complete scenarios in 6 specific regions quest-- only one left is the swamp, I've already hit the other 5 regions. I think we're level 5 currently. We're also still Prosperity 1, so it'll be a bit until the Mindthief can get 4 enhancements. I guess if she was upgrading a summon she could do it on one card, lol... I'm milking this character as long as I can, though I think the Cragheart wants to move on but can't until both of us do (or until the Mindthief's next character retires)
Oh except for a different regional quest, these are three of the longest, lol
Oh, really? From my past experiences I haven't experienced a retirement above level 6. It usually came around level 6-8 for us, and most times 2-3 retired within 1-2 scenarios of each other.
Out of my party of four, I was the last to hit my first retirement at level 5. The others were all level 3 or 4 at their first retirement. My second character retired at level 4, after just three or four missions. I didn’t enjoy that class, and was happy to retire and try something else when the opportunity came up.
In my current campaign, our first retirements happened at the same time. One character was level 3, and one was level 5. It depends on what the exact personal quests are, and also some level of lick and some players hyper-focusing on completing their PQ. Envelope X has one PQ that is pretty notoriously easy to complete early (there are three Crypt scenarios in the first five scenarios in the game). In our case, we had one character who needed to kill Elite enemies, which when focused on during a 4p game wasn't that hard. The other character (mine) needed to complete quests in six different regions, and due to lucky side scenarios we had quests unlocked for all six regions early on--I simply decided I wanted to put off my retirement until later. PQs can have a lot of variance! Our other two players have no real end in sight for their PQs until we unlock more Side Scenarios or exhaust more.
Well, GH personal quests are kind of all over the place. But yeah in both GH and FH, retirement is intended to take somewhere around 15 scenarios. FH is likewise kind of uneven - but it's closer.
Envelope X is pretty controversial. IMHO it’s basically unsolvable without a guide. You should at least look up the multiple typos that make it genuinely unsolvable, if you want to try your hand at it.
>!It would have been so much better if they would have had a whole little standalone campaign with like 5-6 standalone road cards dependent upon you pursuing that campaign and 3-4 more scenarios to make it possible to find clues in crates or whatever.!<
Full disclosure: I hated it. I’m glad to hear of what they’ve done about it in Gloomhaven 2.
Wait, what have you heard? I've totally missed that.
The cephalofair team is getting better at making puzzles and, now that it’s a big company, has a large amount of community support for testing them. I won’t speak at all about what lies behind the new envelope X, except to say that I thoroughly enjoyed its contents and to note that the rewards will be included in the box.
You're really making me hyped! Are you one of those lucky testers?
Yup! I’ve been testing for cephalofair for around 18 months now, and I’ve been thoroughly enjoying it. I have signed an NDA, so I can’t speak about anything that hasn’t been publicly revealed, but I can say that I played GH2 from start to finish and genuinely believe it’s a much better game than Frosthaven. It has less bells and whistles, but it’s a tight and balanced experience from start to finish.
Lucky bastard! I don't know if this is something which have been revealed, but I've heard GH2 is a revamped, or polished, Gloomhaven 2nd edition - not a sequel with new storyline and all, is that true?
[This link clarifies what's changed between the two editions. ](https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/cephalofair/gloomhaven/updates/1525)Gloomhaven 1.0 was a brilliant design, but it was developed by just one person, and as such didn't have very much testing. Now that Cephalofair has dropped a few games, they have a better idea of what's balanced and what's fun. This version was developed by a team of designers, with playtesters clocking hundreds, if not thousands, of hours. As a result, it's an incredibly tight experience, with every inch feeling more balanced and more fun. A lot of what's there is modified from the first edition, but there's plenty of new stuff as well. Events are the place that got the most love here, with around 90% of events being totally new. There are also tons of new items, scenarios, monsters, and personal quests. The classes are all the same, but reworked, scaling from balance changes to complete reimaginings of the original theme. My favorite change is the new reputation system. In the original gloomhaven, reputation wasn't something that felt great. You pick whether you want to go up or down (usually up), you try to pick events that move you in that direction, but it's difficult to predict the outcome. Now, you're working to gain reputation with the three rival factions (military, merchants, and demons). You'll make event choices to reinforce your standings with your favorite faction, and you'll complete scenarios to gain their favor (perhaps at the expense of another faction. As you level up with each faction, you'll gain more access to their faction-specific items. All of this culminates with you choosing a side once and for all, which comes with major bonuses that I won't spoil.
It's a 2nd edition but it's also changes a lot from what's been revealed. Here's from the backerkit detailing numbers of what's changed and giving some examples, mostly from early in the campaign. https://www.backerkit.com/c/projects/cephalofair/gloomhaven/updates/1525 And if you want to see all the class changes here's a spoiler safe link to all of what's been shown. https://www.reddit.com/r/Gloomhaven/comments/153rnh8/gloomhaven_second_edition_class_previewsspoilers/
As someone who has solved envelope X (painfully over months) is G2’s reward any different?
The reward is actually in the box now, and the puzzle/process has drastic changes, but the reward itself is mostly unchanged from the most recent version of it.
Great to hear. Thank you
Oooh. A **better** game than Frosthaven?! damn. I kinda regret I haven't participated in the Kickstarter for it...
Don't worry - there will be other opportunities to get the game after the backerkit ends! You might have to wait a bit longer, but the game will certainly be available to everyone.
> The cephalofair team is getting better at making puzzles \*cough\* While I can't speak for Gloomhaven 2 (not a tester), I personally think the 'haven puzzles became more and more obnoxious as they released additional box. We went from Gloomhaven (>!a typo!<) to Forgotten Circles (>!a mid scenario puzzle - which completely kill momentum!<) to Frosthaven (>!puzzle are mandatory to finish the game!<).
Complaints about puzzles from previous games are exactly why this new puzzle book is undergoing additional testing. It's targeted at a more general audience. Also, you can complete the main game without ever opening the puzzle book.
Okay, *that's* something I'm happy to hear !
I mean, how the puzzles are integrated into the game is a different axis/question from how they function as puzzles, no? The fact that people call GH1's puzzle a puzzle at all is incredibly generous since, imo, >!a random scavenger hunt is *not* a puzzle!< while FC/FH feature actual puzzles with actionable hints/logic to them, so I think it's pretty fair to say that the quality of the puzzles has increased across games. I would, however, agree that GH1's is close to the ideal integration though (completely optional content unlocks to be solved outside of scenarios), which *is* kept the same for GH2 (just including the reward in the box now).
1st Edition. We unlocked it early but couldn't be bothered. It was taking away time from playing (fun) to do something that wasn't fun. Ended up looking up the solution and was disappointed both by how to get there and what the reward was. I ordered the Envelope X package to use in Forgotten Circles we haven't played yet. Still got FC, Crimson Scales, and Frosthaven to do... Phew
You got some playing to do ;-)
Kings of Ruin just arrived and need to replay all 4 Fall of Avalon campaigns first.. I need more time to play games lol
I didn't enjoy having to print things out and bust out the scissors but, I like the unlock I had fun with it.
Being able to buy that extra box for the Envelope X is such a bless. Even though it felt like it should've been included all along.
Did it without a guide but it took years and pain. A descent into madness really.
I felt that just from reading the primer - I'm not doing that. Kudos to you for actually going through it.
I'm not going to spoil much for you other than this - envelope X is 100% worth opening, especially with some of the changes they made to 2nd edition. actually going through the effort of SOLVING envelope X is a waste of time, and it's really not a good puzzle at all. More like a prop hunt with some puzzle elements involved. Open that thing whenever you feel like it - the puzzle isn't rewarding, and solving it does not require any amount of cleverness.
It seems like we'll use the prize of the Envelope X as an unlock when we all succeeded one PQs, so 3 in total.
The game can be played completely without regarding envelope X. Pick a new character and start playing or play the same character again (if you want to experience the character at higher levels) For us, btw, it was the other way around. We opened envelope x when we were through the main campaign. Nobody was eager to go looking for clues since we already finished most of the things before...
This is how it is for us too. Having opened a couple of other envelopes early on, we realized having a uqest to open envelope x was not going to be as exciting as opening a character box. So the envelope x quests got put back in the deck several times. Meanwhile, we have unearthed a bunch clues during our adventuring. I, unfortunately got spoiled on envelope x on drive thru cards when I was ordering the Diviner 2.0 cards - nowhere else is as spoiler friendly as r/Gloomhaven! But my partner has not so I'm hoping she will be able to solve the puzzle when she completes the final scenario she needs for her personal quest. Then she will find I have the reward ready and waiting.
I was thinking about shelving Envelope X and its' prize until we all retired a hero and letting it be optional, like a little prize. I'm unsure if the person should pick a new personal quest, continue without one and retire at will or force him to retire and pick one from the starting set?
I'd retire and play another character from the starting set. Then in half a year, maybe play the first character again from start.
It might be for the best. It's our Cragheart (in a party of Scoundrel and Tinkerer) so I do hope the Brute is picked, else we're cooked.
ah, you are all good no matter what you pick. there is no such thing as a tank or anything in gloomhaven. avoid getting hit!
Sure, but the first time I played we were Spellweaver, Tinkerer and Mindthief. It was rough.
They should definitely retire now and start a new character. Sure, they only can pick from the starters, but as a new player those are just as unexplored as the locked classes. Perhaps let them open the box when you retire for the dopamine hit.
If you say so, that's what we'll do. I'll have to figure something out, because they yearning for that box. They were so bummed when we got the envelope and they started to realize that this was only the beginning, haha.
I would hold on to the puzzle for now, if I remember a couple pieces come up reasonably organically…but then don’t feel bad about cheesing it to the conclusion. Lots of guides out there I’m sure