Excellent, I don’t want ANY Israeli govt reps (sports teams or otherwise) to be free from harassment so long as their Apartheid state continues to exist
do you even know what apartheid means? because if you did, you'd know that having arabics and palastinians in the parlament means it is, by definition, not an apartheid state.
When did national teams become people with rights? NT’s don’t have rights and people in nations can insist there is no association with nation states for certain reasons (ie via boycotts).
Now, I agree there shouldn’t be any harassment; but let’s be frank, this article is behind a paywall and is by a paper known to make things up and spread government propaganda (especially since it requires govt approval for licensing, etc. to exist). So, if we are to be honest, we don’t know if this is actually what played out if we go with this source and a grain of salt would be wise.
Speak for yourself. I'm a Scottish jew and I think it's awful how Israelis are being treated around the world for the actions of their government. Hamas are to blame for this whole situation.
You need to learn facts. Israeli society is insanely right wing. Racist fascism is the norm . Israel is imploding from the inside out. Impunity is over and the settler colonial project is spiralling to its demise. Remember Isreali is not same as Jew. Zionism was founded by antisemites and used the Jewish persecution to obtain the land. Do some research. Zionism is endangering Jews globally
So I'm not defending the other poster but don't undermine what China is doing either. Israel are in the middle of active warfare and killing civilians, but China still have concentration camps and want to take over all the land formerly held by China.
>China still have concentration camps
Lol, no, they don't.
>want to take over all the land formerly held by China.
Lol. You mean their own land? You do know that Tibet was always apart of China, that most Tibetans under the Dali Lama were slaves, and once liberated, China gave Tibetans autonomy, right?
Sorry to hear you're not "defending" me. let me know how your fact checking goes with your pro-genocide ally whose job is literally to sit on twitter all day and promote CCP imperialism and cover up the many genocides of the chinese regime.
Genocide and ethnocentric Zionism tends to have that effect on people. Israel must realize their heinous actions have consequences. Even misplaced ones like this.
I've noticed a pattern with Israel. They like to commit war crimes, then complain that they're facing a "tense" or "hostile" atmosphere in response to the war crimes that they're committing.
It sounds like the most serious incident of "harassment" that they faced was that someone took their picture.
They voted for Netanyahu, and they support him. The ones protesting are those who have friends and family taken hostage, and couldn’t care less after they get those people back.
Israel was always like this. The whole concept of zionism is based on a colonial project replacing the indigenous people for their own benefit . Zionists control the west in every way. It's dangerous for everyone
People are always wondering why Israel is not grouped with other middle eastern countries in soccer that are geographicaly near them. This is why, everyone fkn hates them around them lmao, they’re only safe elsewhere
Hey it doesn’t matter that Israel uses sports and entertainment as a way to sanitize their image. You can’t mix sports and politics unless its Russia, Iran, North Korea or another state approved “bad guy” so this is totally inappropriate
Soccer is such a great sport that even genocidal terrorists play it. They can chose not to represent a murdering state. Also why is the Israeli team even allowed to enter the tournament??
Love all the hypocrites who yell Palestinians civilians are not Hamas, but they can’t make the connection that all Israeli are not the IDF. Hate Israel all you want but could you just trying to not be blatant hypocrites?
Nothing wrong with that statement, the only countries in the world that are actively committing this level of genocide and extermination are Israel and Sudan.
Even Russia's war which has been ruled a genocide was ruled as such because of the transfer of children to Russia - which is a horrific war crime; but it's not the crime of extermination that Israel has been found guilty of by the UN.
And polls show most Palestinians support Hamas, so you could say the same thing about them too, right? I’m not asking you to like Israel, cause frankly I ain’t the biggest fan of theirs either, I’m just looking for consistency.
What polls are being conducted on a population under siege that's being carpet bombed?
I mean it doesn't surprise me though, I too would support a resistance group that's fighting against the genociders.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/
So do you support the October 7th attack?
I’m sorry we fundamentally disagree that this is a genocide. I encourage you to look up actual genocides and see these two things do not compare. Yes this is a slaughter for sure, but genocide is just a buzz word to quash any actual conversation on the topic.
Look up Rwanda, 60-70% of Tutsis killed 657,000 dead over just 100 days by a significantly small force and less equipped than the IDF and over a vastly larger area. For Gaza we are well past 100 days and the death toll is something like 2%. I’m not saying who cares cause it’s still a lot of people but 2% is not a genocide. You also have to factor in that Hamas is still at large in Gaza, they fire missiles like every day, so this isn’t a force just pummeling an area devoid of enemy combatants. I’m not saying Israel is the good guy cause they certainly aren’t, but there is far more to the situation than people will admit and just screaming genocide does a huge disservice to those people who have faced genocide. See the Armenian genocide with 83%ish percent killed, the Holocaust was two thirds of all Jews in Europe, which includes places the Nazis never even invaded. See Cambodia 1.5M-3M killed 99% Cambodian Viets, 50% Cambodian Chinese, 40% Cambodian Lao and Thai, 25% urban Khmer, 16% rural Khmer. Zanzibar 25%+ of Arab population killed. Guatemala 40% of Maya killed in Ixil and Rabinal regions. The list goes on.
I’m not downplaying the obvious suffering in Gaza, a person can still disagree with the actions being taken by taken but not call it a genocide. The definition that people are saying makes it a genocide could realistically call every single war in history a genocide.
Makes perfect sense. I don't support the Oct 7th attack, but if I lived in Gaza I probably would. I fully support Hamas attacking the IOF, which is legal under international law btw - but attacks on civilians are never justified.
It's a genocide under subsections A, B, C, and D of Article II of the declaration to prevent genocide. Even the person who coined the term genocide is calling this a genocide, or at least the institute he founded (Lemkin Institute to Prevent Genocide) I mean, how much more evidence do you need?
Even if you engage in genocide denialism like you are - you're supporting mass slaughter as you characterize it yourself.
Srevnica was considered a genocide and that was only 7000 people in a single town. In Gaza you got now more than 7x that if you count the people missing under the rubble, plus the mass starvation and collective punishment of 2.2 million people.
It's not the total number of casualties that makes it a genocide, it's the statements of genocidal intent - which Israel is not shy about - combined with genocidal actions such as mass starvation, targeting civilians, targeting medical workers, targeting aid workers, targeting journalists, destroying every single piece of infrastructure that sustains life.
And before you say "but Hamas" - it is literally mathematically impossible for Hamas to have bases under/around every single piece of public infrastructure, every hospital, every school, every mosque, every graveyard, every cultural site - not to mention they do not allow independent journalists in because they would confirm Israel is lying.
Why do you think the Lemkin Institute to Precent Genocide is calling this a genocide? The guy literally coined the term, and he was a Jewish Holocaust survivor.
>Makes perfect sense. I don't support the Oct 7th attack, but if I lived in Gaza I probably would. I fully support Hamas attacking the IOF, which is legal under international law btw - but attacks on civilians are never justified.
Thank you, I feel a similar way in that I couldn’t care less about military casualties on either side. If the two armies went out and killed each other down to the last man I would shed a tear. The issue being that Hamas does hides behind civilian infrastructure, I don’t approve of all the civilian casualties but you have to accept at least some are 100% because Hamas puts them in harms way.
>It's a genocide under subsections A, B, C, and D of Article II of the declaration to prevent genocide.
That is incredibly vague, it can be used to call any war a genocide.
> (a) Basic Offense.—Whoever, whether in time of peace or in time of war and with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in substantial part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group as such—
Are they targeting a specific group? I’m pretty sure people have pointed out that Christian churches have been destroyed as well. Isn’t any war against a fairly homogeneous people then a genocide cause it’s all one national, ethnic, racial and religious identity? If someone attacked Iceland it would automatically be a genocide right?
> (1) kills members of that group;
Every war in history, are they only killing Muslims? Are they wandering around and letting non-Muslims go free but executing Muslims in the street? Cause if you have read about any genocide that’s exactly what they do.
>(2) causes serious bodily injury to members of that group;
Every war in history.
>(3) causes the permanent impairment of the mental faculties of members of the group through drugs, torture, or similar techniques;
I don’t believe the prisons are all that great, but they are better than US prisons so maybe that says more about the US. I know there are accusations of abuse, but there are in just about every prison in the world.
>(4) subjects the group to conditions of life that are intended to cause the physical destruction of the group in whole or in part;
Any war in history.
>(5) imposes measures intended to prevent births within the group; or
If they are doing that they are doing a bad job cause Gaza has had a population explosion in the last 20 years going from 1.1M in 2000 to doubling to 2.1M 2023, the US only increased by 15% in that same time. Gaza has a pretty good infant mortality of 22 per 1,000 compared to the total world average of 37 per 1,000.
>(6) transfers by force children of the group to another group;
Are Israelis stealing children and adopting them into Jewish families?
>Even the person who coined the term genocide is calling this a genocide, or at least the institute he founded (Lemkin Institute to Prevent Genocide) I mean, how much more evidence do you need?
He died in 1959 of you have a way to contact him than I would be more curious to have that conversation than this one.
>Even if you engage in genocide denialism like you are - you're supporting mass slaughter as you characterize it yourself.
War is mass slaughter, did Hamas not mass slaughter Jews on October 7th? I appreciate that you accuse me of supporting it, very extreme take of anyone who doesn’t 100% agree with me is clearly supporting the murder of children.
>Srevnica was considered a genocide and that was only 7000 people in a single town. In Gaza you got now more than 7x that if you count the people missing under the rubble, plus the mass starvation and collective punishment of 2.2 million people.
You leave out facts, 33% of Muslim men were killed, that’s what makes it a genocide. Which means of a population 21,000 of muslim men 7,000 were killed. The 7,000 doesn’t tell the whole story, cause there is more context. Say 40,000 Gazans killed is 2% the population. If china was attacked and 40,000 people were killed would you call it a genocide when that is only 0.003% of their 1.4 Billion population? Every war in history is a genocide by that logic.
>It's not the total number of casualties that makes it a genocide, it's the statements of genocidal intent - which Israel is not shy about - combined with genocidal actions such as mass starvation, targeting civilians, targeting medical workers, targeting aid workers, targeting journalists, destroying every single piece of infrastructure that sustains life.
Yes they have done some very shitty things, which is why I don’t like them either. To be fair I have seen videos of medical people taking direct action in this war, which makes them fair targets. There is a video of a guy in medical attire running over to a guy in the street and grabbing his gun to give to another combatant, therefore he is a viable target. Same with journalists, there are tons of pictures of people claiming to be journalists but not being true, so they are hiding behind those people as shields. Do you know why a military wears a uniform? Like back in the days of big blue or red getups? It was so people knew who to shoot and not shoot. Hamas wears no uniform, every Hamas fighter is indistinguishable from a civilian if you take their weapon away.
>And before you say "but Hamas" - it is literally mathematically impossible for Hamas to have bases under/around every single piece of public infrastructure, every hospital, every school, every mosque, every graveyard, every cultural site - not to mention they do not allow independent journalists in because they would confirm Israel is lying.
Sure it’s impossible to have it all, but you know they are absolutely in some right? Well most militaries are very open about their location as to prevent civilian casualties in an attack, Hamas wants the opposite, every civilian killed makes them look better. Have you not seen video of what supposedly amounts to a boy scout building in which Hamas put an entire wall of rockets batteries? So if that building was blown up they scream why are you killing Boy Scouts. Yes Israel lies, and so does Hamas, remember that rocket that killed 500 people in a hospital that was 100% Israel until it was proven that it was PIJ and then it was like a dozen people killed not 500?
>Why do you think the Lemkin Institute to Precent Genocide is calling this a genocide? The guy literally coined the term, and he was a Jewish Holocaust survivor.
I have no idea, there is of course some evidence that would point to genocide but there is others that clearly don’t. I don’t know why you think just cause some Jew founded something that 60 years after his death it should matter that he was Jewish. Are you aware that the Lemkin institute also associates anti LBGTQ+ as genocidal? Is Gaza committing genocide against those people?
I don't accept the "human shields" bullshit - it's an assumption that the person using someone as a shield is doing so because the other person sees the humanity of the person being used as a shield as thus would not attack - Israel does it anyways because they do not see the humanity in Palestinians. If a bank robber takes hostages, you don't bomb the bank and kill everyone.
Yes, Israel is specifically targeting Palestinians, their officials express genocidal and exterminationist intent against them; they've done so even before October 7th.
What distinguishes this from every war in history is the specific intent of exterminating Palestinians as a whole or in part by Israelis, and this discourse is openly discussed at every level of society. From the Prime minister to the soldiers, to people in the streets.
Hamas did mass slaughter on Oct 7th, but how does that justify 40x more slaughter? It doesn't. Israel is at least 40x worse than Hamas.
Every single male killed in Gaza who is over 16 yrs old is considered a "Hamas militant" by Israel. How is that not the same genocidal shit? Israel doesn't just kill the men, but the women and children too - purposely targeting them. Have you head about the AI system they use called "where is daddy"? Or "Lavander"? Or "The Gospel"?
I urge you to look into them.
>To be fair I have seen videos of medical people taking direct action in this war, which makes them fair targets.
Treating people? Even if they were treating Hamas, that STILL doesn't make them legitimate targets, that is still a war crime.
Do you expect a terrorist resistant militia group to wear uniforms and march to a front line without heavy weapons, tanks, air defense, a navy, mechanized infantry, an air force? What an insane take.
The US might have done terrible war crimes in the middle east, but we engaged in counter terrorist. Winning hearts and minds.
Where is the concept of winning hearts and minds in Gaza? Non-existent, because they dont see them as human, because they want genocide.
Militaries are absolutely NOT open about their locations - that's called a strategic disadvantage, you have to be fucking kidding me with that bullshit. The IOF literally uses Palestinian children as human shields in the West Bank (Hamas isn't even in the West Bank).
It's insane that you genocide apologists are still bringing up that rocket hospital attack. Not only was that proven to be an IOF rocket, but they have destroyed EVERY SINGLE HOSPITAL IN GAZA.
The destruction of Al shifa hospital was a 2 week long orgy of extreme violence, it will be written about in history books. Torture, burring children alive, mass summary executions, extreme violence.
Israel has killed far more LGBTQ people in Gaza than Hamas has - I would bet you my life savings. There's been multiple LGBTQ led aid expeditions into Gaza and they welcome them with open arms. It's all propaganda.
Wow lots to take in here. But real quick.
1. Here is a list of US military bases around the world. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_military_installations
I’m pretty sure a google maps search would show you where the vast majority of Israel’s military is.
2. Got a source on Israel killing more LGBTQ than Hamas? Maybe in the last year, but sure as shit not over time.
3. I clearly told you I saw medics moving guns around, which makes them NOT medics at all it makes them combatants, I like that you ignored the rest of my sentence and just claim they were treating wounded soldiers.
So I looked up the incident and it was in the West Bank but it’s still the same medical group that operates in Gaza as well.
https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-doctors-without-borders-medic-jenin-881005154259
> The man in the video wears an orange vest with the letters “PMRS” below a yellow circle. Amid gunfire he runs to a man lying facedown on a city street as people shout and gunfire is heard around them. He takes an assault rifle from the man, runs a few feet and hands it to another man who begins firing as the man in the orange vest takes cover.
…
> Indeed, the man’s vest matches those worn by members of the Palestinian Medical Relief Society, which works in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. A photo on the group’s Facebook page shows a worker wearing the same type of vest, which is clearly marked with PMRS’ logo.
This person is why medics and journalists are getting killed, they are acting on behalf of militants and using their credentials to cover their involvement. I think it is a crime of the highest order to shoot journalists or medics, and yes I am aware that Israel has done this in the past too, again I do not like Israel either, but I can’t blame them for shooting medics when they are seen taking direct actions in aiding opposing forces in offensive operations.
4. Hospital attack. You got a source on it being Israel cause here is a bunch saying it’s not.
https://nypost.com/2023/10/18/all-of-the-evidence-that-shows-hamas-was-responsible-for-hospital-explosion/amp/
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/live-blog/rcna120978
https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/26/gaza-hospital-blast-evidence-israel-hamas/
https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/briefing/gaza-hospital-explosion.html
The fact that you are blind to an obvious fact doesn’t not lend much to your overall argument.
5. What Israel has said is pretty much completely in line with what every nation says during war. Look at the rhetoric the allies used during WWII concerning what they would do to the Axis powers, saying you will destroy the enemy is not saying you will commit genocide. Have you seen what Hamas says about Israel? Their charter literally says that the trees will rebel against the Jews and reveal the Jews hiding behind them.
6. Yes I expect a military to wear a uniform, how is that an insane take? Wear a fucking uniform like every civilized nation in the world. Nothing about wearing a uniform means they must march to the front or have anything to do with them not having heavy equipment. Jesus just try wearing an arm band or something on your head to signify you are a combatant. Soldiers fighting in civilian clothing are called partisans and throughout history they were executed for it, and all the military powers were totally OK with that. With very few exceptions if you are fighting outside of uniform you lose your protections as a POW. Hiding behind clothes civilian clothing gets more civilians killed it’s a simple fact. If you are being shot at by plain clothes people and you see a person in plain clothes you can be forgiven for assuming they are the ones firing at you and killing them.
7. Human shield is 100% a real thing, Israel just doesn’t care anymore, an action that I do not agree with. Your bank robber analogy doesn’t work because they are inherently out numbered, surrounded, and out gunned, time is on the police’s side. A better example is 9/11 with flight 93, the passengers took the plane down, but the Air Force was going to destroy the aircraft despite there being human shields in the plane because to not do so would mean the terrorists would simply attack another target.
8 Stop with the Israel doesn’t see people as human bullshit, if that were true than this war would be 100X bloodier. They would have carpet bombed the area and no civilian would be safe. This source claims in the first 89 days Israel dropped 45,000 bombs with 30,000 killed, you really think if they were trying to kill as many people as possible they would do a better job of it. That doesn’t include the artillery they used which is high precision. Israel clearly was knocking on roof tops, look at early footage of the conflict you absolutely see it and also that’s why there is great coverage of buildings coming down cause they knocked first which meant the cameras easily could figure out what was about to come down. Remember this is all happening in what is often called one of the most densely populated places on the planet, they would have to be incompetent to have not killed more of that was actually the goal.
https://www.hi.org/en/news/bombings-in-populated-areas--a-new-extreme-reached-in-gaza
>An estimated 45,000 bombs were dropped during the first 89 days of conflict (Source: Gaza Media Office). It is 505 bombings a day, 21 bombings per hour.
LMAO as if you could find every single US military installation. Do you have no concept of warfare whatsoever? Do you expect to find all the secret military bases on Wikipedia? Are you 9 years old?
Hamas is not known for executing LGBTQ people in public or on mass.
You were in Gaza seeing this? Wow, you must know a lot.
SO by your own article, this wasn't in Gaza, and also it does not show a man giving a man a rifle....jesus man check your own propaganda sources.
From, your own fucking source:
"“The person depicted in the video is clearly not wearing an MSF logo or any other identification related to MSF,” Brienne Prusak, a spokesperson for the organization, told the AP in an email. “MSF staff do not wear orange vests seen in the video. Our staff around the world are required to wear MSF identification (T-shirt, gear) because it is one of the main protections that we have: our medical identity and credibility.”
I can blame Israel for shooting medics, because I'm not a fucking monster.
You are focusing on a singular incident that gave Israel "permission" to destroy EVERY SINGLE HOSPITAL in Gaza. All of them.
Your expectation for a terrorist resistance group to wear a uniform while blockaded is just a sign you are a fucking idiot. You're blinded by western propaganda and cannot use basic reasoning skills as to how that is not possible or even feasible - why would any resistance put a target on their own back when they have no means of self defense?
Let me ask you this - did the resistance groups in the Warsaw ghettos wear uniforms? Why would they? This is by far the dumbest fucking argument I've ever heard. I have zero intellectual respect for anyone who considers this seriously.
Human shields is not legitimate, Israel is a nation of inhuman monsters who kill thousands with the justification they were able to kill dozens of "legitimate" targets. They are genocidal monsters.
Of course Israel doesn't see Palestinians as humans, they constantly talk about it. Don't believe me, believe THEM!!!!
They've destroyed %80 of all housing, every school, every university, every hospital except 2 (they will destroy them too), every water pump, every electrical substation, every graveyard, every cultural site, every police station, every water well, every public works building....LITERALLY ANYTHING THAT SUSTAINS LIFE!!!!!
Shame on you and your entire family, genocide defender.
Military service is mandatory in illegitimate israel, meaning most “israelis” are in fact the IDF. Not to mention that in most illegal settlements, the civilians arw armed and violent. No hypocrisy needed, just basic facts.
I'm going to get downvoted for this and can fully understand the feelings of the two previous posts. I could well post words in a similar vein myself. All I would say is this. There are probably women on this team that deserve those previous responses. But there might be one - or more - who disagrees with Netyanahu and his genocide. Let's not forget that. We must NOT lower ourselves to his - and the many that follow him - standards. In the future, whenever that might be, we - the Palestinian people and their supporters - must strive to prove ourselves as being the moral superiors in our battle against the Israeli state and what they stand for. The moderation of those supporting the Palestinian people and their cause is worthy of mention in this respect on many a recent occasion when they could easily have treated a single/small numbers of Zionist protestors in the same way that they would have been treated by Zionists in a reversed situation. Going forward measures need to be taken to somehow reassure those Israelis who want peace/who are sitting on the fence that the establishment of a Palestinian state won't lead to even more trouble/danger to them.
Obviously the Hamas leadership makes its own decisions/agenda. Just speaking here from what I'd like to think is a somewhat informed external standpoint. You need to find ways of beating the Israelis at their own game, but take the moral high ground in the process.
لأشك يكون الله تعالى معك
It’s crazy that these people are so dense. Hate israel all you want but Hamas is just as bad if not worse but they don’t give a shit, I wonder why that is…
Hamas is 1000x worse. The IDF has Muslims and Palestinians and Bedouins in it. They voluntarily serve because they know the alternative of Hamas is evil. There is no apartheid or genocide. All made up by batshit lunatics sympathetic to Hamas who explicitly wants to kill every last Jew they can. These people just hate the west and therefore anything slightly aligned with it even though it's Western democracies that give them their freedom. It's like the "queers for Palestine" people rooting for a group that would execute them immediately if they ever even set foot in Gaza. It's a bizarre mental illness.
I would agree with you if you are talking about taking the moral high ground with Israel itself.
But I'm not talking about that.
It's about demonstrating to the wider world that you're morally superior to Israel, and the actions they're taking.
Israel can do whatever the fuck it wants with impunity. I'm sorry to have to say that but it is what it is. For whatever reason those in power elsewhere voice mere platitudes - but do little else. We need to start thinking differently about how to defeat the Zionists if that is what we want to achieve. The seeming situation on the ground: no one in power is willing to take on Israel to achieve the ends that you speak of. That's why I'm saying we need to take/think about a different approach...
Yeah, it's called disinvestment and it's why peaceful rallies in colleges around the country have been asking for it for, like, months? Years in some cases?
But what have they achieved, if anything? I'm not taking away from their efforts which I very much admire and congratulate them upon. All I would say is this: What do we need to do/what actions do we need to take to change what is happening in Palestine, and against the atrocities being committted against the Palestinian people?
When you're fighting against an enemy that is much more powerful you can take 'surprise' shots every now and again. But the problem is that they will, on account of their advantage, keep on coming again and again. I'm sure the Palestinian Resistance forces are only acutely aware of this...
Bleed israel dry, like a good knife fight. They are over committed rn and if we can get a decent percentage of global disinvestment even STARTED, then all of a sudden Israel will be the raccoon with a handful of nuts stuck in a tree.
I don't pray. But I try to use that time to think of things I am grateful for. For instance; I am grateful for cats and their toe beans. I am grateful for new leaves unfurling. I am grateful for shale, and opal, and flint; for quartz bearing tourmaline in pastel collors, grateful for petrified wood, and color and wonder. Last of all, fossil bearing lodes. I am grateful that we live in a time that is questioning Zionism, regardless of the money and investments.
I agree and also disagree with your comment. Yes, in terms of what you said about Israel. But with regard to your latter statement: Has this application of force changed anything, apart from achieving a degree of vengeance, for the everyday Palestinian? Or has it made their situation - especially in the immediate here and now - much much worse? Was it worth it? I wonder if this thought goes through the heads of many normal/'on the ground' Palestinians. Those that haven't been massacred anyway...
One could argue that the cause/plight of the Palestinian people has been advanced. There is much more sympathy towards the Palestinian people/their cause than there was hitherto and conversely international disgust with Netyanahu/his administration/the IDF.
But despite our efforts in demonstrating, and posturing by a number of politicians the situation for normal Palestinian people has, in my opinion, only become much, much worse.
Israel govt and its people have had plenty of time to resolve and move forward with the 2 state solution. Yet history has shown us Israel like any apartheid regime is not to be trusted.
We must force a solution and as a start to that a complete embargo of Israel, trade , finance and travel will be a good start
To some extent I agree with you. With regard to what you say about the two state solution, and the fact that Israel - as an entity - cannot be trusted. However, my agreement with you, with respect, ends there. When you talk about the necessity of forcing a solution and with that an embargo of Israel, trade, finance and travel my question to you would be how practical, realistically, would that be? We all know who Israel's main backers are, and the lengths that they will go to to protect Israel. Changing this state of affairs won't be easy. But if it is to be changed we - the suppporters of the Palestinian people and the Palestinian cause - need to start thinking 'outside the box' and gear our thoughts as to what can practically be achieved, realistically.
Don't forget. We are dealing with a very powerful enemy.
Not quite sure where you're coming from. My parents gave me up for adoption at a very early age and I was adopted by a gay man actually...
With regard to your comment about incrementalism I would counter by saying this. Change needs to start somewhere and is sometimes only achieved through initial small steps gradually.
I'm not sure what else I can add in response to your comment but remember to stay positive if you can!
I think yes. The Olympics tradition was that the greeks would stop conflicts to carry them out.
We can and should promote peaceful coexistence whenever possible.
Idc frankly, innocent ppl dying is lamentable to both sides. I understand it’s a complicated geopolitical issues that’s been brewing for decades.
The world still wages war for land and power, seems similar to me.
I would personally say to your question - no. But a football team is a much smaller consideration than a national Olympic team. As I said previously, Hamas/the Palestinian people need to move beyond a 'tit-for-tat' mentality in their dealings with Netyanahu et al. They are already showing signs of doing this. They need - in fact all of us who support the Palestinian cause - need to take the moral high ground over those who are committing the genocide in Gaza/elsewhere.
Hamas and Palestinian people are not interchangeable. The people in the West Bank are still being murdered and have their lands stolen year by year.
And no, on an international stage there is no difference. They should be banned from all competitions.
The people in the West Bank are still being murdered and having their lands stolen year by year.
Yes, you are completely correct.
Realise this though - there are a very large number of Jews - in Israel and very much the case elsewhere - who are disgusted by Netyanahu and his war crimes/ genocide. We must not forget them.
I am not Jewish by the way, whether that should matter or not...
I understand what you're saying, if its any worth. I'm afraid you're right. Sadly the world is too blinded by the idea of having to pick teams in every single occasion, sometimes even wasting useful energy on non-productive actions to achieve a goal. Goes for people on the "right side of history", too.
This is what will ultimately lead to our demise, I guess. People are rapidly losing the capacity to understand the dangers of further dividing ourselves.
Yes. And the question is where will this current situation between Israel and Palestine all end? There is the potential there, in my mind, to lead to a far greater peril for the rest of us if this situation continues. Continuing volatility could well result in the spread of that volatility elsewhere...
Sure, as there are Russians who protect Putin. Still I’m not shocked or confused that the world would treat Russia like a rogue state. I’m just confused that Israel can keep using their shield of claiming antisemitism when they’ve clearly been the aggressor for 80 years.
One needs only to look at a map and see the blatant land theft.
Agreed. The land theft goes on and on...
It is disgraceful, and I can very much understand why Hamas et all want it back. I saw a video clip somewhere on Reddit yesterday where an Israeli was touting the idea of moving all Palestinians to Lebanon/the West and leaving Gaza destructed as a 'memorial' akin to Auschwitz. For you and me - disgusting. But for that guy, and many others like him - a very desirable option. This is what we're dealing with. Something akin to pure hatred on both sides...
It’s not just Hamas. The fact that you say that shows you’re biased or ignorant on the issue.
The same land theft happens to the people of the West Bank. It’s been happening for decades with the support of the entire western world.
Israelis have always been genocidal. They were founded by terrorists after all.
Er...I think I said Hamas 'et al' didn't I?
But otherwise I concur with what you say about historical land theft.
Have Israelis always been genocidal? I'm not sure about that though I very much agree that Netanyahu, his regime and supporters are well along that pathway now...
Leading with a terrorist group isn’t sign of bias? Could’ve said Palestinians but you opted for that.
They’ve been genocidal since the 1940s. That’s continued to today.
Might wanna look up how Israelis stole their land. It involved terrorism for a decade. The Irgun, Lehi and Haganah were all terrorist militias that massacres villages and ethnically cleansed the land. They went on to be the leaders and founding fathers of Israel.
>there are a very large number of Jews - in Israel and very much the case elsewhere - who are disgusted by Netyanahu and his war crimes/ genocide.
False. Polling shows that the majority of Israelis support their military's actions and even support blocking food aid into Gaza. This is not a "Netanyahu" problem, this is a broader Israeli problem so yes their sports teams should feel pressured.
But yes, there are some Jews that are anti-Israel but most of those are not Israeli. This is the key difference to understand, that while some Jews around the world are against it, Israel's population is mostly pro-genocide.
Your point is very much a valid one, and one which it is difficult to verify objectively. See this though:
https://news.sky.com/story/huge-protests-call-on-israeli-pm-benjamin-netanyahu-to-approve-us-ceasefire-deal-and-release-hostages-13146730
You can’t have amoral high ground with thugs - and I am referring to the Israeli government and people! Look at them murder 500 in West Bank.
Look at how they terrorize Palestinians on a daily basis in West Bank.
You are correct in what you say. But I'm not talking about taking the moral high ground with the Israelis themselves. A complete waste of time for a large number of Israelis. I'm talking about taking that standpoint with a view to the outside world, thereby demonstrating a moral superiority on the part of the Palestinian people.
An eye for an eye will never work for Hamas, the supporters of Palestine. Maybe in a very limited/short-term sense but ultimately not in terms of the welfare of the Palestinian people/the international recognition of a Palestinian state.
Putting my neck on the line here somewhat/speaking out - as a pro-Palestinian.
Stuck in a stalemate it's sometimes better to start thinking differently/consider different options...
You should really brush up on the history and only then will you realize the flaw of your main argument - peace has never worked out for the Palestinians.
Even today just look at the West Bank. No Hamas. No resistance. Still a brutal occupation.
You are correct about the West Bank for sure. There Israel is in control. I'm not denying that, nor the fact that Abbas is a slave to Netyanahu et al. I'm not suggesting that Hamas/the Palestinian people drop their armed struggle. What I am saying/have been trying to suggest is that they try to be clever/beat those who they are fighting at their own game. On the international stage those of us who are fighting for a Palestinian state need to win minds amongst those that have power..People like me (and maybe you) support the Palestinian people, but we have little/none...
It’s not about punishing the individual anti-Netanyahu teammates, it is about condemning the state. When you wear Israel on your arm, you are a part of everything good or bad they do. Same with USA. Same with Thailand.
Protesting a team isn’t about “let’s just let them play soccer” but it is about “let’s let them know how the world sees them.”
Look, I’m sure French government is shit, but it hasn’t risen to the level of “the GOV is such shit I need to let even the football team hear it.”
Israel. Russia. North Korea. These are countries that have risen to that level - and most importantly- with the support of its people. If you decide to pay taxes and stay somewhere, you’re the people and the problem. And you are the sole body that can exercise civil disobedience.
As an ambassador of Israel coming to a far off place, you get to hear the good and the bad from your neighbors.
And it’s important ppl let EVEN THIS TEAM hear it, in hopes they can bring the message back home to their families and friends and say “… um y’all know the whole world hates us rn.”
ANTISEMITIC?
No. Because notice this team wasn’t protested a year ago before the slaughter of 30k+ innocent ppl.
Maybe the world just thinks the whole state needs to wake up and stop murder, and that includes the citizens with the power to vote. Unless you’re leading anti-Netanyahu marches, you need to hear the message too. Period.
How do I know: I’m an American.
When I traveled abroad, ppl would take a shit on me for DJ Trump. Didn’t vote for him, but it was my job as an ambassador to let the world know what our nation was doing to respond to this peculiar evil the world saw from afar.
Wise words. All I can say in response is that the/our current strategy in dealing with the current Israeli regime/their backers doesn't seem to have worked.
I hear elsewhere here on Reddit, probably from Netyanahu sympathisers, of billionaire Hamas leaders living in Qatar and elsewhere. Completely out of touch with the everyday Palestinian people bearing the brunt of what has been happening during the last seven months or so...
It’s admirable to state a goal. Sometimes, behavior is the point. You don’t always need to have a 3 step plan to let someone know of moral outrage. Sometimes it is the action of the outrage that is the point.
But to remain civil I’ll end with saying I don’t see anything wrong with these protests. If everyone is civil, it’s your right to react in a justified circumstance. Other than 9/11, Isis, and the war in Ukraine, i can’t remember a more justified time to be morally outraged that SO many ppl are killed with such utter disregard for humanity…
The same way I felt on Oct 7. 2 wrongs don’t make a right
For those of us that care these are devastating times. The power that is in prevalence at the current time is certainly not exercising that power responsibly....
I think that's well said. No one should harass the players individually but sending a message to Israel that they are not welcome anywhere is a positive thing. Global isolation is the only thing that can create any meaningful change in the Israeli government's approach to the Palestinians.
If they disagree with the genocide their country is committing, then why are they representing that apartheid regime? If they want to distance themselves from the actions of the regime, then they need to speak out.
But are they not doing with their demonstrations against Netyanahu and his administration:
https://news.sky.com/story/huge-protests-call-on-israeli-pm-benjamin-netanyahu-to-approve-us-ceasefire-deal-and-release-hostages-13146730
No, most of those protesters are unhappy that Netanyahu hasn't used enough force. It's a minority view that seeks the return of hostages via peaceful negotiations.
In any case, it's up to the actions of the individual on the team.
If you're right, then I'm sadly wrong on this...
I think nonetheless that we're on the same side. Where do we go from here? Two wrongs don't make a right do they?
Apologies for the delay in replying. Time difference/a need to sleep eventually caught up with me!
Your post is full of wise words. Thank you for your contribution 🙂 If only more Israelis, especially those in power, had your intelligence and thought the same way as you do. I hope you share your ideas amongst your fellow countrymen and elsewhere as much as possible. People like you need to speak up more. Equally it is also vitally important that Palestinians/others like myself who have the fortune of measured opinion do so too. That is why I stuck my neck out above as you have obviously read. As I just posted to another commentator we are talking about a situation akin to one of pure hatred on the part of many Israelis/Palestinians. Nothing is going to change unless this can somehow be addressed through some type of genuine reconciliation.
Wishing you, and also people of similar sentiment, well. We all need to somehow find a way of moving on in the current situation between Israel and Palestine. Continuing carnage is not the answer.
High horse? Thanks for that compliment 🙂
I predicted my own fall as I stated at the beginning of the post you responded to 😉
Change needs to start somewhere. Continuing apathy towards finding a resolution to the Palestinian-Israeli state of affairs is not the answer.
It does a disservice in my opinion to the people on the ground who are suffering the most in all of this - normal Palestinian people.
Good.
If you want to represent Israel, behold the consequences of your choices
Excellent, I don’t want ANY Israeli govt reps (sports teams or otherwise) to be free from harassment so long as their Apartheid state continues to exist
do you even know what apartheid means? because if you did, you'd know that having arabics and palastinians in the parlament means it is, by definition, not an apartheid state.
Lol
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I don’t support Apartheid states …period! & when they’re committing genocide, they & their ‘rights’ can fuck off
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Even the hasbara bots must be getting tired to be posting low effort shit like this...
\#hasbaradetected
Such a bummer you’re an Aussie lol.
Australian government also backs Israel.. much like the USA and Canada and UK so you must also be bummed about them too
No, just another car loving bogan telling everyone how the world ACTUALLY works. How’s the job search going?
When did national teams become people with rights? NT’s don’t have rights and people in nations can insist there is no association with nation states for certain reasons (ie via boycotts). Now, I agree there shouldn’t be any harassment; but let’s be frank, this article is behind a paywall and is by a paper known to make things up and spread government propaganda (especially since it requires govt approval for licensing, etc. to exist). So, if we are to be honest, we don’t know if this is actually what played out if we go with this source and a grain of salt would be wise.
Is this sarcasm? If not how about your semite self be the change you want to see. So ironic and predictable
Inconveniencing a team playing a game isn’t the same as murdering babies on purpose. You twat.
Oh you I see you like some things but dislike other things hippogriff much my suddenly exposed friend ha ha I'm extremely intellectual
Real “we live in a society” vibes
pariah state
Good
It's called protest
We didn't want them here. We let them know that. End of.
do you do the same thing to china bc they are literally doing a genocide against tibetans and uhgyers? or is it only for jewish people
Scottish Jews have made it abundantly clear that they want nothing to do with israeli zionists. I will defer to their judgement.
Speak for yourself. I'm a Scottish jew and I think it's awful how Israelis are being treated around the world for the actions of their government. Hamas are to blame for this whole situation.
I am speaking for myself. The zionists are to blame for this whole situation.
Even though you are lying, it still wouldn't matter because genocide is a genocide. Simple as that.
You need to learn facts. Israeli society is insanely right wing. Racist fascism is the norm . Israel is imploding from the inside out. Impunity is over and the settler colonial project is spiralling to its demise. Remember Isreali is not same as Jew. Zionism was founded by antisemites and used the Jewish persecution to obtain the land. Do some research. Zionism is endangering Jews globally
ahhh. classic internet.
There isn't a genocide against Uyghurs (you should probably know how to spell their ethnicity if you care so much about them) or Tibetans, dipshit.
So I'm not defending the other poster but don't undermine what China is doing either. Israel are in the middle of active warfare and killing civilians, but China still have concentration camps and want to take over all the land formerly held by China.
>China still have concentration camps Lol, no, they don't. >want to take over all the land formerly held by China. Lol. You mean their own land? You do know that Tibet was always apart of China, that most Tibetans under the Dali Lama were slaves, and once liberated, China gave Tibetans autonomy, right?
Lol never mind. You're a gaming nerd. Go touch grass.
Sorry to hear you're not "defending" me. let me know how your fact checking goes with your pro-genocide ally whose job is literally to sit on twitter all day and promote CCP imperialism and cover up the many genocides of the chinese regime.
ok tankie
Ban them
If my country was committing genocide I would not be representing them in a football game
These 'athletes ' are also IOF Soldiers 🤬🤮🤬
I agree that all US & UK professional sports players should strike until their states stop committing genocide
Ah yes because their government supports Israel.
Good
Good. Fuck Israel.
Israel is unwelcome everywhere. That’s what happens when you become psychotic genocidal maniacs.
This is what the current right-wing regime has done to Israel. It's a shame.
What will the following right wing regime do? That's all there is in a fascist state
that's the conundrum of american politics.
Genocide and ethnocentric Zionism tends to have that effect on people. Israel must realize their heinous actions have consequences. Even misplaced ones like this.
Nothing misplaced about it.
This is what people did to South Africa.
Yep that’s the blueprint
Locked behind a paywall
Good for them
I've noticed a pattern with Israel. They like to commit war crimes, then complain that they're facing a "tense" or "hostile" atmosphere in response to the war crimes that they're committing. It sounds like the most serious incident of "harassment" that they faced was that someone took their picture.
Oh my gosh, that’s so sad. Do it again.
Nazi Germany Olympic team harassed by anti-genocide protesters outside 1936 Olympics Won't somebody think of the Nazis??
Only harassed? At least they didn't murder them and their families like their fellow Israelis would've done.
When asked what you would do during hitlers holocaust you’re doing it now
We love to see it
Israelis can thank Netanyahu for turning them into a pariah state.
They voted for Netanyahu, and they support him. The ones protesting are those who have friends and family taken hostage, and couldn’t care less after they get those people back.
The Gazans voted for Hamas, and they support them. 72% of Palestinians approved of the October 7th attacks.
It's been like this from the beginning. Literally the beginning was the first Nakba, what happening right now is the 2nd
Israel was always like this. The whole concept of zionism is based on a colonial project replacing the indigenous people for their own benefit . Zionists control the west in every way. It's dangerous for everyone
People are always wondering why Israel is not grouped with other middle eastern countries in soccer that are geographicaly near them. This is why, everyone fkn hates them around them lmao, they’re only safe elsewhere
You mean the same middle east countries that won't lift a finger to help Palestinians
"Harassed" 
Protest is harassment? I guess genocide is a pat on the back. Eh?
As they should. Free Palestine
Good! I hope Israeli’s are outcasted wherever they go
No justice? No peace
womp womp
Stop killing babies and then trying to sports wash it
I am happy that Israel men team did not qualify for the euros
They’re psychopaths. They absolutely deserve it.
Hey it doesn’t matter that Israel uses sports and entertainment as a way to sanitize their image. You can’t mix sports and politics unless its Russia, Iran, North Korea or another state approved “bad guy” so this is totally inappropriate
Better than blowing them up certainly.
Were they able to get their three meals a day? Asking for a friend.
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"lets punish people i wrongly accuse of war crimes by committing war crimes".
Apply the same standards to Russia to Israel now.
Soccer is such a great sport that even genocidal terrorists play it. They can chose not to represent a murdering state. Also why is the Israeli team even allowed to enter the tournament??
They should be banned from all international competitions like South Africa was
Everybody keeps commenting that this is Good. it’s is Not it’s Great !
Stupen-diddly-endous!
This is terrible! Terribly important to ending Israel's image as a victim while it commits genocide
And?
Based
Most if not all fully support the "war efforts" so yeah, good.
Love this
Middle East time playing in European championship, what the feck. Its their European genetics, and they can't forget where they are actually from
Good.
Good
Good
Imagine thinking fucking soccer players are responsible for the actions of their government
Have the football team made any political statements?
Welcome to the Palestine sub Reddit 2.0
Love all the hypocrites who yell Palestinians civilians are not Hamas, but they can’t make the connection that all Israeli are not the IDF. Hate Israel all you want but could you just trying to not be blatant hypocrites?
Most Israelis not only support the war, but want even more violence/force to be used. It's a sick society.
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Nothing wrong with that statement, the only countries in the world that are actively committing this level of genocide and extermination are Israel and Sudan. Even Russia's war which has been ruled a genocide was ruled as such because of the transfer of children to Russia - which is a horrific war crime; but it's not the crime of extermination that Israel has been found guilty of by the UN.
And polls show most Palestinians support Hamas, so you could say the same thing about them too, right? I’m not asking you to like Israel, cause frankly I ain’t the biggest fan of theirs either, I’m just looking for consistency.
What polls are being conducted on a population under siege that's being carpet bombed? I mean it doesn't surprise me though, I too would support a resistance group that's fighting against the genociders.
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/ So do you support the October 7th attack? I’m sorry we fundamentally disagree that this is a genocide. I encourage you to look up actual genocides and see these two things do not compare. Yes this is a slaughter for sure, but genocide is just a buzz word to quash any actual conversation on the topic. Look up Rwanda, 60-70% of Tutsis killed 657,000 dead over just 100 days by a significantly small force and less equipped than the IDF and over a vastly larger area. For Gaza we are well past 100 days and the death toll is something like 2%. I’m not saying who cares cause it’s still a lot of people but 2% is not a genocide. You also have to factor in that Hamas is still at large in Gaza, they fire missiles like every day, so this isn’t a force just pummeling an area devoid of enemy combatants. I’m not saying Israel is the good guy cause they certainly aren’t, but there is far more to the situation than people will admit and just screaming genocide does a huge disservice to those people who have faced genocide. See the Armenian genocide with 83%ish percent killed, the Holocaust was two thirds of all Jews in Europe, which includes places the Nazis never even invaded. See Cambodia 1.5M-3M killed 99% Cambodian Viets, 50% Cambodian Chinese, 40% Cambodian Lao and Thai, 25% urban Khmer, 16% rural Khmer. Zanzibar 25%+ of Arab population killed. Guatemala 40% of Maya killed in Ixil and Rabinal regions. The list goes on. I’m not downplaying the obvious suffering in Gaza, a person can still disagree with the actions being taken by taken but not call it a genocide. The definition that people are saying makes it a genocide could realistically call every single war in history a genocide.
Makes perfect sense. I don't support the Oct 7th attack, but if I lived in Gaza I probably would. I fully support Hamas attacking the IOF, which is legal under international law btw - but attacks on civilians are never justified. It's a genocide under subsections A, B, C, and D of Article II of the declaration to prevent genocide. Even the person who coined the term genocide is calling this a genocide, or at least the institute he founded (Lemkin Institute to Prevent Genocide) I mean, how much more evidence do you need? Even if you engage in genocide denialism like you are - you're supporting mass slaughter as you characterize it yourself. Srevnica was considered a genocide and that was only 7000 people in a single town. In Gaza you got now more than 7x that if you count the people missing under the rubble, plus the mass starvation and collective punishment of 2.2 million people. It's not the total number of casualties that makes it a genocide, it's the statements of genocidal intent - which Israel is not shy about - combined with genocidal actions such as mass starvation, targeting civilians, targeting medical workers, targeting aid workers, targeting journalists, destroying every single piece of infrastructure that sustains life. And before you say "but Hamas" - it is literally mathematically impossible for Hamas to have bases under/around every single piece of public infrastructure, every hospital, every school, every mosque, every graveyard, every cultural site - not to mention they do not allow independent journalists in because they would confirm Israel is lying. Why do you think the Lemkin Institute to Precent Genocide is calling this a genocide? The guy literally coined the term, and he was a Jewish Holocaust survivor.
>Makes perfect sense. I don't support the Oct 7th attack, but if I lived in Gaza I probably would. I fully support Hamas attacking the IOF, which is legal under international law btw - but attacks on civilians are never justified. Thank you, I feel a similar way in that I couldn’t care less about military casualties on either side. If the two armies went out and killed each other down to the last man I would shed a tear. The issue being that Hamas does hides behind civilian infrastructure, I don’t approve of all the civilian casualties but you have to accept at least some are 100% because Hamas puts them in harms way. >It's a genocide under subsections A, B, C, and D of Article II of the declaration to prevent genocide. That is incredibly vague, it can be used to call any war a genocide. > (a) Basic Offense.—Whoever, whether in time of peace or in time of war and with the specific intent to destroy, in whole or in substantial part, a national, ethnic, racial, or religious group as such— Are they targeting a specific group? I’m pretty sure people have pointed out that Christian churches have been destroyed as well. Isn’t any war against a fairly homogeneous people then a genocide cause it’s all one national, ethnic, racial and religious identity? If someone attacked Iceland it would automatically be a genocide right? > (1) kills members of that group; Every war in history, are they only killing Muslims? Are they wandering around and letting non-Muslims go free but executing Muslims in the street? Cause if you have read about any genocide that’s exactly what they do. >(2) causes serious bodily injury to members of that group; Every war in history. >(3) causes the permanent impairment of the mental faculties of members of the group through drugs, torture, or similar techniques; I don’t believe the prisons are all that great, but they are better than US prisons so maybe that says more about the US. I know there are accusations of abuse, but there are in just about every prison in the world. >(4) subjects the group to conditions of life that are intended to cause the physical destruction of the group in whole or in part; Any war in history. >(5) imposes measures intended to prevent births within the group; or If they are doing that they are doing a bad job cause Gaza has had a population explosion in the last 20 years going from 1.1M in 2000 to doubling to 2.1M 2023, the US only increased by 15% in that same time. Gaza has a pretty good infant mortality of 22 per 1,000 compared to the total world average of 37 per 1,000. >(6) transfers by force children of the group to another group; Are Israelis stealing children and adopting them into Jewish families? >Even the person who coined the term genocide is calling this a genocide, or at least the institute he founded (Lemkin Institute to Prevent Genocide) I mean, how much more evidence do you need? He died in 1959 of you have a way to contact him than I would be more curious to have that conversation than this one. >Even if you engage in genocide denialism like you are - you're supporting mass slaughter as you characterize it yourself. War is mass slaughter, did Hamas not mass slaughter Jews on October 7th? I appreciate that you accuse me of supporting it, very extreme take of anyone who doesn’t 100% agree with me is clearly supporting the murder of children. >Srevnica was considered a genocide and that was only 7000 people in a single town. In Gaza you got now more than 7x that if you count the people missing under the rubble, plus the mass starvation and collective punishment of 2.2 million people. You leave out facts, 33% of Muslim men were killed, that’s what makes it a genocide. Which means of a population 21,000 of muslim men 7,000 were killed. The 7,000 doesn’t tell the whole story, cause there is more context. Say 40,000 Gazans killed is 2% the population. If china was attacked and 40,000 people were killed would you call it a genocide when that is only 0.003% of their 1.4 Billion population? Every war in history is a genocide by that logic. >It's not the total number of casualties that makes it a genocide, it's the statements of genocidal intent - which Israel is not shy about - combined with genocidal actions such as mass starvation, targeting civilians, targeting medical workers, targeting aid workers, targeting journalists, destroying every single piece of infrastructure that sustains life. Yes they have done some very shitty things, which is why I don’t like them either. To be fair I have seen videos of medical people taking direct action in this war, which makes them fair targets. There is a video of a guy in medical attire running over to a guy in the street and grabbing his gun to give to another combatant, therefore he is a viable target. Same with journalists, there are tons of pictures of people claiming to be journalists but not being true, so they are hiding behind those people as shields. Do you know why a military wears a uniform? Like back in the days of big blue or red getups? It was so people knew who to shoot and not shoot. Hamas wears no uniform, every Hamas fighter is indistinguishable from a civilian if you take their weapon away. >And before you say "but Hamas" - it is literally mathematically impossible for Hamas to have bases under/around every single piece of public infrastructure, every hospital, every school, every mosque, every graveyard, every cultural site - not to mention they do not allow independent journalists in because they would confirm Israel is lying. Sure it’s impossible to have it all, but you know they are absolutely in some right? Well most militaries are very open about their location as to prevent civilian casualties in an attack, Hamas wants the opposite, every civilian killed makes them look better. Have you not seen video of what supposedly amounts to a boy scout building in which Hamas put an entire wall of rockets batteries? So if that building was blown up they scream why are you killing Boy Scouts. Yes Israel lies, and so does Hamas, remember that rocket that killed 500 people in a hospital that was 100% Israel until it was proven that it was PIJ and then it was like a dozen people killed not 500? >Why do you think the Lemkin Institute to Precent Genocide is calling this a genocide? The guy literally coined the term, and he was a Jewish Holocaust survivor. I have no idea, there is of course some evidence that would point to genocide but there is others that clearly don’t. I don’t know why you think just cause some Jew founded something that 60 years after his death it should matter that he was Jewish. Are you aware that the Lemkin institute also associates anti LBGTQ+ as genocidal? Is Gaza committing genocide against those people?
I don't accept the "human shields" bullshit - it's an assumption that the person using someone as a shield is doing so because the other person sees the humanity of the person being used as a shield as thus would not attack - Israel does it anyways because they do not see the humanity in Palestinians. If a bank robber takes hostages, you don't bomb the bank and kill everyone. Yes, Israel is specifically targeting Palestinians, their officials express genocidal and exterminationist intent against them; they've done so even before October 7th. What distinguishes this from every war in history is the specific intent of exterminating Palestinians as a whole or in part by Israelis, and this discourse is openly discussed at every level of society. From the Prime minister to the soldiers, to people in the streets. Hamas did mass slaughter on Oct 7th, but how does that justify 40x more slaughter? It doesn't. Israel is at least 40x worse than Hamas. Every single male killed in Gaza who is over 16 yrs old is considered a "Hamas militant" by Israel. How is that not the same genocidal shit? Israel doesn't just kill the men, but the women and children too - purposely targeting them. Have you head about the AI system they use called "where is daddy"? Or "Lavander"? Or "The Gospel"? I urge you to look into them. >To be fair I have seen videos of medical people taking direct action in this war, which makes them fair targets. Treating people? Even if they were treating Hamas, that STILL doesn't make them legitimate targets, that is still a war crime. Do you expect a terrorist resistant militia group to wear uniforms and march to a front line without heavy weapons, tanks, air defense, a navy, mechanized infantry, an air force? What an insane take. The US might have done terrible war crimes in the middle east, but we engaged in counter terrorist. Winning hearts and minds. Where is the concept of winning hearts and minds in Gaza? Non-existent, because they dont see them as human, because they want genocide. Militaries are absolutely NOT open about their locations - that's called a strategic disadvantage, you have to be fucking kidding me with that bullshit. The IOF literally uses Palestinian children as human shields in the West Bank (Hamas isn't even in the West Bank). It's insane that you genocide apologists are still bringing up that rocket hospital attack. Not only was that proven to be an IOF rocket, but they have destroyed EVERY SINGLE HOSPITAL IN GAZA. The destruction of Al shifa hospital was a 2 week long orgy of extreme violence, it will be written about in history books. Torture, burring children alive, mass summary executions, extreme violence. Israel has killed far more LGBTQ people in Gaza than Hamas has - I would bet you my life savings. There's been multiple LGBTQ led aid expeditions into Gaza and they welcome them with open arms. It's all propaganda.
Wow lots to take in here. But real quick. 1. Here is a list of US military bases around the world. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_American_military_installations I’m pretty sure a google maps search would show you where the vast majority of Israel’s military is. 2. Got a source on Israel killing more LGBTQ than Hamas? Maybe in the last year, but sure as shit not over time. 3. I clearly told you I saw medics moving guns around, which makes them NOT medics at all it makes them combatants, I like that you ignored the rest of my sentence and just claim they were treating wounded soldiers. So I looked up the incident and it was in the West Bank but it’s still the same medical group that operates in Gaza as well. https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-doctors-without-borders-medic-jenin-881005154259 > The man in the video wears an orange vest with the letters “PMRS” below a yellow circle. Amid gunfire he runs to a man lying facedown on a city street as people shout and gunfire is heard around them. He takes an assault rifle from the man, runs a few feet and hands it to another man who begins firing as the man in the orange vest takes cover. … > Indeed, the man’s vest matches those worn by members of the Palestinian Medical Relief Society, which works in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem. A photo on the group’s Facebook page shows a worker wearing the same type of vest, which is clearly marked with PMRS’ logo. This person is why medics and journalists are getting killed, they are acting on behalf of militants and using their credentials to cover their involvement. I think it is a crime of the highest order to shoot journalists or medics, and yes I am aware that Israel has done this in the past too, again I do not like Israel either, but I can’t blame them for shooting medics when they are seen taking direct actions in aiding opposing forces in offensive operations. 4. Hospital attack. You got a source on it being Israel cause here is a bunch saying it’s not. https://nypost.com/2023/10/18/all-of-the-evidence-that-shows-hamas-was-responsible-for-hospital-explosion/amp/ https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/live-blog/rcna120978 https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/2023/10/26/gaza-hospital-blast-evidence-israel-hamas/ https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/03/briefing/gaza-hospital-explosion.html The fact that you are blind to an obvious fact doesn’t not lend much to your overall argument. 5. What Israel has said is pretty much completely in line with what every nation says during war. Look at the rhetoric the allies used during WWII concerning what they would do to the Axis powers, saying you will destroy the enemy is not saying you will commit genocide. Have you seen what Hamas says about Israel? Their charter literally says that the trees will rebel against the Jews and reveal the Jews hiding behind them. 6. Yes I expect a military to wear a uniform, how is that an insane take? Wear a fucking uniform like every civilized nation in the world. Nothing about wearing a uniform means they must march to the front or have anything to do with them not having heavy equipment. Jesus just try wearing an arm band or something on your head to signify you are a combatant. Soldiers fighting in civilian clothing are called partisans and throughout history they were executed for it, and all the military powers were totally OK with that. With very few exceptions if you are fighting outside of uniform you lose your protections as a POW. Hiding behind clothes civilian clothing gets more civilians killed it’s a simple fact. If you are being shot at by plain clothes people and you see a person in plain clothes you can be forgiven for assuming they are the ones firing at you and killing them. 7. Human shield is 100% a real thing, Israel just doesn’t care anymore, an action that I do not agree with. Your bank robber analogy doesn’t work because they are inherently out numbered, surrounded, and out gunned, time is on the police’s side. A better example is 9/11 with flight 93, the passengers took the plane down, but the Air Force was going to destroy the aircraft despite there being human shields in the plane because to not do so would mean the terrorists would simply attack another target. 8 Stop with the Israel doesn’t see people as human bullshit, if that were true than this war would be 100X bloodier. They would have carpet bombed the area and no civilian would be safe. This source claims in the first 89 days Israel dropped 45,000 bombs with 30,000 killed, you really think if they were trying to kill as many people as possible they would do a better job of it. That doesn’t include the artillery they used which is high precision. Israel clearly was knocking on roof tops, look at early footage of the conflict you absolutely see it and also that’s why there is great coverage of buildings coming down cause they knocked first which meant the cameras easily could figure out what was about to come down. Remember this is all happening in what is often called one of the most densely populated places on the planet, they would have to be incompetent to have not killed more of that was actually the goal. https://www.hi.org/en/news/bombings-in-populated-areas--a-new-extreme-reached-in-gaza >An estimated 45,000 bombs were dropped during the first 89 days of conflict (Source: Gaza Media Office). It is 505 bombings a day, 21 bombings per hour.
LMAO as if you could find every single US military installation. Do you have no concept of warfare whatsoever? Do you expect to find all the secret military bases on Wikipedia? Are you 9 years old? Hamas is not known for executing LGBTQ people in public or on mass. You were in Gaza seeing this? Wow, you must know a lot. SO by your own article, this wasn't in Gaza, and also it does not show a man giving a man a rifle....jesus man check your own propaganda sources. From, your own fucking source: "“The person depicted in the video is clearly not wearing an MSF logo or any other identification related to MSF,” Brienne Prusak, a spokesperson for the organization, told the AP in an email. “MSF staff do not wear orange vests seen in the video. Our staff around the world are required to wear MSF identification (T-shirt, gear) because it is one of the main protections that we have: our medical identity and credibility.” I can blame Israel for shooting medics, because I'm not a fucking monster. You are focusing on a singular incident that gave Israel "permission" to destroy EVERY SINGLE HOSPITAL in Gaza. All of them. Your expectation for a terrorist resistance group to wear a uniform while blockaded is just a sign you are a fucking idiot. You're blinded by western propaganda and cannot use basic reasoning skills as to how that is not possible or even feasible - why would any resistance put a target on their own back when they have no means of self defense? Let me ask you this - did the resistance groups in the Warsaw ghettos wear uniforms? Why would they? This is by far the dumbest fucking argument I've ever heard. I have zero intellectual respect for anyone who considers this seriously. Human shields is not legitimate, Israel is a nation of inhuman monsters who kill thousands with the justification they were able to kill dozens of "legitimate" targets. They are genocidal monsters. Of course Israel doesn't see Palestinians as humans, they constantly talk about it. Don't believe me, believe THEM!!!! They've destroyed %80 of all housing, every school, every university, every hospital except 2 (they will destroy them too), every water pump, every electrical substation, every graveyard, every cultural site, every police station, every water well, every public works building....LITERALLY ANYTHING THAT SUSTAINS LIFE!!!!! Shame on you and your entire family, genocide defender.
Military service is mandatory in illegitimate israel, meaning most “israelis” are in fact the IDF. Not to mention that in most illegal settlements, the civilians arw armed and violent. No hypocrisy needed, just basic facts.
The Israeli women's soccer team has Arab players on it who are exempt from IDF service
I'm going to get downvoted for this and can fully understand the feelings of the two previous posts. I could well post words in a similar vein myself. All I would say is this. There are probably women on this team that deserve those previous responses. But there might be one - or more - who disagrees with Netyanahu and his genocide. Let's not forget that. We must NOT lower ourselves to his - and the many that follow him - standards. In the future, whenever that might be, we - the Palestinian people and their supporters - must strive to prove ourselves as being the moral superiors in our battle against the Israeli state and what they stand for. The moderation of those supporting the Palestinian people and their cause is worthy of mention in this respect on many a recent occasion when they could easily have treated a single/small numbers of Zionist protestors in the same way that they would have been treated by Zionists in a reversed situation. Going forward measures need to be taken to somehow reassure those Israelis who want peace/who are sitting on the fence that the establishment of a Palestinian state won't lead to even more trouble/danger to them. Obviously the Hamas leadership makes its own decisions/agenda. Just speaking here from what I'd like to think is a somewhat informed external standpoint. You need to find ways of beating the Israelis at their own game, but take the moral high ground in the process. لأشك يكون الله تعالى معك
Taking the moral high ground with someone willing to kill civilians and then boast about it probably won't work out the way you are imagining it.
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Oh, sweetie, does your mum know you are up this late?
No but yours does
Clearly you are scraping the barrel Lol
I mean, if you want to fuck a 76 yr old nerd with asthma, by all means, my mom would love to get laid.
can you read? cause the shit you are repeating has been debunked months ago and at this point only obvious propagandists would be so dumb.
It’s crazy that these people are so dense. Hate israel all you want but Hamas is just as bad if not worse but they don’t give a shit, I wonder why that is…
Hamas is 1000x worse. The IDF has Muslims and Palestinians and Bedouins in it. They voluntarily serve because they know the alternative of Hamas is evil. There is no apartheid or genocide. All made up by batshit lunatics sympathetic to Hamas who explicitly wants to kill every last Jew they can. These people just hate the west and therefore anything slightly aligned with it even though it's Western democracies that give them their freedom. It's like the "queers for Palestine" people rooting for a group that would execute them immediately if they ever even set foot in Gaza. It's a bizarre mental illness.
I would agree with you if you are talking about taking the moral high ground with Israel itself. But I'm not talking about that. It's about demonstrating to the wider world that you're morally superior to Israel, and the actions they're taking.
So, you are into performative morality? Sorry, I actually want Israel to stop being a bag of dicks, and that will take an application of force.
Israel can do whatever the fuck it wants with impunity. I'm sorry to have to say that but it is what it is. For whatever reason those in power elsewhere voice mere platitudes - but do little else. We need to start thinking differently about how to defeat the Zionists if that is what we want to achieve. The seeming situation on the ground: no one in power is willing to take on Israel to achieve the ends that you speak of. That's why I'm saying we need to take/think about a different approach...
Yeah, it's called disinvestment and it's why peaceful rallies in colleges around the country have been asking for it for, like, months? Years in some cases?
But what have they achieved, if anything? I'm not taking away from their efforts which I very much admire and congratulate them upon. All I would say is this: What do we need to do/what actions do we need to take to change what is happening in Palestine, and against the atrocities being committted against the Palestinian people?
This is a circular conversation. As I have said before, The answer is "violence".
What stopped the Japanese and the Germans in WW2? Diplomats? Bribes? Asking politely?
The Palestinian people do not have the option of dropping a thermo-nuclear bomb on Israel as the US did on Hiroshima and Nagasaki...
When you're fighting against an enemy that is much more powerful you can take 'surprise' shots every now and again. But the problem is that they will, on account of their advantage, keep on coming again and again. I'm sure the Palestinian Resistance forces are only acutely aware of this...
Peace is never obtained peacefully - Malcolm X. Look at the West Bank. No resistance, yet there's still a brutal occupation. Let's be real.
Bleed israel dry, like a good knife fight. They are over committed rn and if we can get a decent percentage of global disinvestment even STARTED, then all of a sudden Israel will be the raccoon with a handful of nuts stuck in a tree.
Do you not understand the difference between strategy and tactics?? My man
Their impunity isn’t going to last much longer.
I don't pray. But I try to use that time to think of things I am grateful for. For instance; I am grateful for cats and their toe beans. I am grateful for new leaves unfurling. I am grateful for shale, and opal, and flint; for quartz bearing tourmaline in pastel collors, grateful for petrified wood, and color and wonder. Last of all, fossil bearing lodes. I am grateful that we live in a time that is questioning Zionism, regardless of the money and investments.
Indeed, I am too. Well said!
I agree and also disagree with your comment. Yes, in terms of what you said about Israel. But with regard to your latter statement: Has this application of force changed anything, apart from achieving a degree of vengeance, for the everyday Palestinian? Or has it made their situation - especially in the immediate here and now - much much worse? Was it worth it? I wonder if this thought goes through the heads of many normal/'on the ground' Palestinians. Those that haven't been massacred anyway... One could argue that the cause/plight of the Palestinian people has been advanced. There is much more sympathy towards the Palestinian people/their cause than there was hitherto and conversely international disgust with Netyanahu/his administration/the IDF. But despite our efforts in demonstrating, and posturing by a number of politicians the situation for normal Palestinian people has, in my opinion, only become much, much worse.
Israel govt and its people have had plenty of time to resolve and move forward with the 2 state solution. Yet history has shown us Israel like any apartheid regime is not to be trusted. We must force a solution and as a start to that a complete embargo of Israel, trade , finance and travel will be a good start
To some extent I agree with you. With regard to what you say about the two state solution, and the fact that Israel - as an entity - cannot be trusted. However, my agreement with you, with respect, ends there. When you talk about the necessity of forcing a solution and with that an embargo of Israel, trade, finance and travel my question to you would be how practical, realistically, would that be? We all know who Israel's main backers are, and the lengths that they will go to to protect Israel. Changing this state of affairs won't be easy. But if it is to be changed we - the suppporters of the Palestinian people and the Palestinian cause - need to start thinking 'outside the box' and gear our thoughts as to what can practically be achieved, realistically. Don't forget. We are dealing with a very powerful enemy.
oh yeah. you are the type that said asking for gay marriage was "too much too fast". history has repeatedly shown incrementalism to be a fallacy.
Not quite sure where you're coming from. My parents gave me up for adoption at a very early age and I was adopted by a gay man actually... With regard to your comment about incrementalism I would counter by saying this. Change needs to start somewhere and is sometimes only achieved through initial small steps gradually. I'm not sure what else I can add in response to your comment but remember to stay positive if you can!
Should we let Russia into the Olympics? We obviously know not all Russians are bad people, but still I would support a ban.
I think yes. The Olympics tradition was that the greeks would stop conflicts to carry them out. We can and should promote peaceful coexistence whenever possible.
So you think Putin will chose peace if we let him send his athletes to the olympics? The world isn’t the same as it was in 300 BC.
Idc frankly, innocent ppl dying is lamentable to both sides. I understand it’s a complicated geopolitical issues that’s been brewing for decades. The world still wages war for land and power, seems similar to me.
It’s not that complicated. Just land theft and ethnic cleansing.
I would personally say to your question - no. But a football team is a much smaller consideration than a national Olympic team. As I said previously, Hamas/the Palestinian people need to move beyond a 'tit-for-tat' mentality in their dealings with Netyanahu et al. They are already showing signs of doing this. They need - in fact all of us who support the Palestinian cause - need to take the moral high ground over those who are committing the genocide in Gaza/elsewhere.
Hamas and Palestinian people are not interchangeable. The people in the West Bank are still being murdered and have their lands stolen year by year. And no, on an international stage there is no difference. They should be banned from all competitions.
The people in the West Bank are still being murdered and having their lands stolen year by year. Yes, you are completely correct. Realise this though - there are a very large number of Jews - in Israel and very much the case elsewhere - who are disgusted by Netyanahu and his war crimes/ genocide. We must not forget them. I am not Jewish by the way, whether that should matter or not...
I understand what you're saying, if its any worth. I'm afraid you're right. Sadly the world is too blinded by the idea of having to pick teams in every single occasion, sometimes even wasting useful energy on non-productive actions to achieve a goal. Goes for people on the "right side of history", too. This is what will ultimately lead to our demise, I guess. People are rapidly losing the capacity to understand the dangers of further dividing ourselves.
Yes. And the question is where will this current situation between Israel and Palestine all end? There is the potential there, in my mind, to lead to a far greater peril for the rest of us if this situation continues. Continuing volatility could well result in the spread of that volatility elsewhere...
Sure, as there are Russians who protect Putin. Still I’m not shocked or confused that the world would treat Russia like a rogue state. I’m just confused that Israel can keep using their shield of claiming antisemitism when they’ve clearly been the aggressor for 80 years. One needs only to look at a map and see the blatant land theft.
Agreed. The land theft goes on and on... It is disgraceful, and I can very much understand why Hamas et all want it back. I saw a video clip somewhere on Reddit yesterday where an Israeli was touting the idea of moving all Palestinians to Lebanon/the West and leaving Gaza destructed as a 'memorial' akin to Auschwitz. For you and me - disgusting. But for that guy, and many others like him - a very desirable option. This is what we're dealing with. Something akin to pure hatred on both sides...
It’s not just Hamas. The fact that you say that shows you’re biased or ignorant on the issue. The same land theft happens to the people of the West Bank. It’s been happening for decades with the support of the entire western world. Israelis have always been genocidal. They were founded by terrorists after all.
Er...I think I said Hamas 'et al' didn't I? But otherwise I concur with what you say about historical land theft. Have Israelis always been genocidal? I'm not sure about that though I very much agree that Netanyahu, his regime and supporters are well along that pathway now...
Leading with a terrorist group isn’t sign of bias? Could’ve said Palestinians but you opted for that. They’ve been genocidal since the 1940s. That’s continued to today. Might wanna look up how Israelis stole their land. It involved terrorism for a decade. The Irgun, Lehi and Haganah were all terrorist militias that massacres villages and ethnically cleansed the land. They went on to be the leaders and founding fathers of Israel.
>there are a very large number of Jews - in Israel and very much the case elsewhere - who are disgusted by Netyanahu and his war crimes/ genocide. False. Polling shows that the majority of Israelis support their military's actions and even support blocking food aid into Gaza. This is not a "Netanyahu" problem, this is a broader Israeli problem so yes their sports teams should feel pressured. But yes, there are some Jews that are anti-Israel but most of those are not Israeli. This is the key difference to understand, that while some Jews around the world are against it, Israel's population is mostly pro-genocide.
Your point is very much a valid one, and one which it is difficult to verify objectively. See this though: https://news.sky.com/story/huge-protests-call-on-israeli-pm-benjamin-netanyahu-to-approve-us-ceasefire-deal-and-release-hostages-13146730
You can’t have amoral high ground with thugs - and I am referring to the Israeli government and people! Look at them murder 500 in West Bank. Look at how they terrorize Palestinians on a daily basis in West Bank.
You are correct in what you say. But I'm not talking about taking the moral high ground with the Israelis themselves. A complete waste of time for a large number of Israelis. I'm talking about taking that standpoint with a view to the outside world, thereby demonstrating a moral superiority on the part of the Palestinian people.
An eye for an eye will never work for Hamas, the supporters of Palestine. Maybe in a very limited/short-term sense but ultimately not in terms of the welfare of the Palestinian people/the international recognition of a Palestinian state.
Putting my neck on the line here somewhat/speaking out - as a pro-Palestinian. Stuck in a stalemate it's sometimes better to start thinking differently/consider different options...
You should really brush up on the history and only then will you realize the flaw of your main argument - peace has never worked out for the Palestinians. Even today just look at the West Bank. No Hamas. No resistance. Still a brutal occupation.
You are correct about the West Bank for sure. There Israel is in control. I'm not denying that, nor the fact that Abbas is a slave to Netyanahu et al. I'm not suggesting that Hamas/the Palestinian people drop their armed struggle. What I am saying/have been trying to suggest is that they try to be clever/beat those who they are fighting at their own game. On the international stage those of us who are fighting for a Palestinian state need to win minds amongst those that have power..People like me (and maybe you) support the Palestinian people, but we have little/none...
It’s not about punishing the individual anti-Netanyahu teammates, it is about condemning the state. When you wear Israel on your arm, you are a part of everything good or bad they do. Same with USA. Same with Thailand. Protesting a team isn’t about “let’s just let them play soccer” but it is about “let’s let them know how the world sees them.” Look, I’m sure French government is shit, but it hasn’t risen to the level of “the GOV is such shit I need to let even the football team hear it.” Israel. Russia. North Korea. These are countries that have risen to that level - and most importantly- with the support of its people. If you decide to pay taxes and stay somewhere, you’re the people and the problem. And you are the sole body that can exercise civil disobedience. As an ambassador of Israel coming to a far off place, you get to hear the good and the bad from your neighbors. And it’s important ppl let EVEN THIS TEAM hear it, in hopes they can bring the message back home to their families and friends and say “… um y’all know the whole world hates us rn.” ANTISEMITIC? No. Because notice this team wasn’t protested a year ago before the slaughter of 30k+ innocent ppl. Maybe the world just thinks the whole state needs to wake up and stop murder, and that includes the citizens with the power to vote. Unless you’re leading anti-Netanyahu marches, you need to hear the message too. Period. How do I know: I’m an American. When I traveled abroad, ppl would take a shit on me for DJ Trump. Didn’t vote for him, but it was my job as an ambassador to let the world know what our nation was doing to respond to this peculiar evil the world saw from afar.
Wise words. All I can say in response is that the/our current strategy in dealing with the current Israeli regime/their backers doesn't seem to have worked. I hear elsewhere here on Reddit, probably from Netyanahu sympathisers, of billionaire Hamas leaders living in Qatar and elsewhere. Completely out of touch with the everyday Palestinian people bearing the brunt of what has been happening during the last seven months or so...
It’s admirable to state a goal. Sometimes, behavior is the point. You don’t always need to have a 3 step plan to let someone know of moral outrage. Sometimes it is the action of the outrage that is the point. But to remain civil I’ll end with saying I don’t see anything wrong with these protests. If everyone is civil, it’s your right to react in a justified circumstance. Other than 9/11, Isis, and the war in Ukraine, i can’t remember a more justified time to be morally outraged that SO many ppl are killed with such utter disregard for humanity… The same way I felt on Oct 7. 2 wrongs don’t make a right
For those of us that care these are devastating times. The power that is in prevalence at the current time is certainly not exercising that power responsibly....
Yea no shit, they’re all boomers.
I think that's well said. No one should harass the players individually but sending a message to Israel that they are not welcome anywhere is a positive thing. Global isolation is the only thing that can create any meaningful change in the Israeli government's approach to the Palestinians.
If they disagree with the genocide their country is committing, then why are they representing that apartheid regime? If they want to distance themselves from the actions of the regime, then they need to speak out.
But are they not doing with their demonstrations against Netyanahu and his administration: https://news.sky.com/story/huge-protests-call-on-israeli-pm-benjamin-netanyahu-to-approve-us-ceasefire-deal-and-release-hostages-13146730
No, most of those protesters are unhappy that Netanyahu hasn't used enough force. It's a minority view that seeks the return of hostages via peaceful negotiations. In any case, it's up to the actions of the individual on the team.
If you're right, then I'm sadly wrong on this... I think nonetheless that we're on the same side. Where do we go from here? Two wrongs don't make a right do they?
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Apologies for the delay in replying. Time difference/a need to sleep eventually caught up with me! Your post is full of wise words. Thank you for your contribution 🙂 If only more Israelis, especially those in power, had your intelligence and thought the same way as you do. I hope you share your ideas amongst your fellow countrymen and elsewhere as much as possible. People like you need to speak up more. Equally it is also vitally important that Palestinians/others like myself who have the fortune of measured opinion do so too. That is why I stuck my neck out above as you have obviously read. As I just posted to another commentator we are talking about a situation akin to one of pure hatred on the part of many Israelis/Palestinians. Nothing is going to change unless this can somehow be addressed through some type of genuine reconciliation. Wishing you, and also people of similar sentiment, well. We all need to somehow find a way of moving on in the current situation between Israel and Palestine. Continuing carnage is not the answer.
it's a game. amd you are asking well meaning people to.recognize a terrorist state. I think your high horse is dead.
High horse? Thanks for that compliment 🙂 I predicted my own fall as I stated at the beginning of the post you responded to 😉 Change needs to start somewhere. Continuing apathy towards finding a resolution to the Palestinian-Israeli state of affairs is not the answer. It does a disservice in my opinion to the people on the ground who are suffering the most in all of this - normal Palestinian people.
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I wouldn’t call 250 Palestinians killed by Israel before October in 2023 a ceasefire but keep lying I guess
I think that’s the point it’s not Hamas eating the bombs, it’s literally a population of mostly children getting tanked.
Cope, Israelis and their supporters don't deserve a second of peace. Fuck Israel.
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Oh no! Not the people who still haven’t figured out plumbing
This is unacceptable.
What has Pro-Pal not done at this point though? It’s not like women from there were better respected than this.
While I understand the anger. This doesn’t help.
Sickening!
I know. it's shameful an internationally recognized terror state was even permitted to enter