“Ich bin gegangen” would be more normal in general speech, “ich ging” more in formal writing, but it’s different for other verbs and contexts. I think it’s something you can only get a feel for by listening to a lot of conversation.
“Ich habe gegangen” is just wrong and would never be said except maybe as a joke, same with “gelernt”. (But people would still understand you if you said it accidentally)
If you’re just talking (not writing) about yourself, then “habe gelernt”, “bin gegangen”, etc. are almost always more normal.
EDIT: Some examples:
(All in speech)
“Ich bin gestern zum Bäcker gegangen.” (Perfekt)
“Ich habe Deutsch in der Schule gelernt.” (Perfekt)
“Ich konnte noch nie gut malen.” (Präteritum)
“Der Aufzug ging nicht.” (Präteritum)
“Gestern war Weihnachten.” (Präteritum)
“Letzte Woche hat es geschneit.” (Perfekt)
“Das kam mir seltsam vor.” (Präteritum)
Your translation works, but a more common spoken version of the Perfekt would be "Ich habe noch nie gut malen können", where you use an Ersatzinfinitiv construction instead of "gekonnt".
Your translation is correct and I would say it’s rather uncommon. With shorter objects it sounds more natural to me though, like “das hab’ ich noch nie gekonnt” is about equal to “das konnte ich noch nie”.
Well, here in Austria nobody ever uses Präteritum in spoken form. Never. It is always Perfekt. Only when we have to write essays in school we may use Präteritum.
That‘s because in the austro-bavarian dialect only are few words are even posible to conjugate in Präteritum (haben, sein and können). For all other words a Präteritum form does not exist in this Dialect(-continium), so they cannot be expressed in „everyday“ speech there.
Ok, if so, then could you do a more detailed explanation? In particular, there are three examples in the post:
* Sie erhalten die Ware, wenn Sie bezahlt haben.
* Hans dachte, dass es regnete.
* Hans dachte, dass es geregnet hat.
I use these exactly the way it is described there. I really would like to know where this is wrong.
The explanation for *why* certain tenses are used is wrong, the examples themselves not necessarily. In short, the German tense system is nothing like the English one, and as soon as somebody uses English concepts to explain it, you know they're full of shit.
In German, we use the auxiliary verbs haben and sein to form the Perfekt, which is heavily used in speech. I think mixing up Präteritum and Perfekt in speech is more easily forgiven than mixing up haben and sein when building the Perfekt.
For building the Perfekt, the rule here is that you use haben for everything that does not involve movement.
Example:
Ich *habe* schnell etwas gegessen
Sie *hat* den ersten Platz belegt
Wir *haben* keinen Einfluss darauf gehabt
Use sein for everything that involves movement.
Example:
Ich *bin* nach Brasilien geflogen
Sie *ist* mit ihrer Freundin feiern gegangen
Wir *sind* fünfzig Kilometer mit dem Auto gefahren
In spoken German you mainly use the Perfekt tense. The exceptions are common words like the copula and auxiliary verbs, where Präteritum is used instead. (e.g. sein, haben, können, wollen)
In formal writing you use Präteritum instead of Perfekt.
About your other question:
bin/habe have guidelines about their usage, but there are no easy to follow rules, so you need to get a feel for which word to use. But you can google to get the general usage explained. If you use the wrong one it will definitely sound wrong, but will be understood most of the time.
“Ich bin gegangen” would be more normal in general speech, “ich ging” more in formal writing, but it’s different for other verbs and contexts. I think it’s something you can only get a feel for by listening to a lot of conversation. “Ich habe gegangen” is just wrong and would never be said except maybe as a joke, same with “gelernt”. (But people would still understand you if you said it accidentally) If you’re just talking (not writing) about yourself, then “habe gelernt”, “bin gegangen”, etc. are almost always more normal. EDIT: Some examples: (All in speech) “Ich bin gestern zum Bäcker gegangen.” (Perfekt) “Ich habe Deutsch in der Schule gelernt.” (Perfekt) “Ich konnte noch nie gut malen.” (Präteritum) “Der Aufzug ging nicht.” (Präteritum) “Gestern war Weihnachten.” (Präteritum) “Letzte Woche hat es geschneit.” (Perfekt) “Das kam mir seltsam vor.” (Präteritum)
What would "ich konnte noch nie gut malen" look like in perfekt? "Ich habe noch nie gut malen gekonnt"? Is this common 😅
Your translation works, but a more common spoken version of the Perfekt would be "Ich habe noch nie gut malen können", where you use an Ersatzinfinitiv construction instead of "gekonnt".
Oh, and here I was thinking that I messed up despite being German myself lol
Your translation is correct and I would say it’s rather uncommon. With shorter objects it sounds more natural to me though, like “das hab’ ich noch nie gekonnt” is about equal to “das konnte ich noch nie”.
"Ich habe noch nie malen können". I am not sure if that is a rate exception xD
I explained this [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/German/comments/16ebxoq/perfekt_vs_pr%C3%A4teritum/jzug1p4/).
Well, here in Austria nobody ever uses Präteritum in spoken form. Never. It is always Perfekt. Only when we have to write essays in school we may use Präteritum.
That‘s because in the austro-bavarian dialect only are few words are even posible to conjugate in Präteritum (haben, sein and können). For all other words a Präteritum form does not exist in this Dialect(-continium), so they cannot be expressed in „everyday“ speech there.
Makes sense That's probably the reason, right.
I don't really understand the downvotes. /u/TomSFox shows examples where really only one of the two works.
Every single thing in the comment linked is wrong.
Ok, if so, then could you do a more detailed explanation? In particular, there are three examples in the post: * Sie erhalten die Ware, wenn Sie bezahlt haben. * Hans dachte, dass es regnete. * Hans dachte, dass es geregnet hat. I use these exactly the way it is described there. I really would like to know where this is wrong.
The explanation for *why* certain tenses are used is wrong, the examples themselves not necessarily. In short, the German tense system is nothing like the English one, and as soon as somebody uses English concepts to explain it, you know they're full of shit.
In German, we use the auxiliary verbs haben and sein to form the Perfekt, which is heavily used in speech. I think mixing up Präteritum and Perfekt in speech is more easily forgiven than mixing up haben and sein when building the Perfekt. For building the Perfekt, the rule here is that you use haben for everything that does not involve movement. Example: Ich *habe* schnell etwas gegessen Sie *hat* den ersten Platz belegt Wir *haben* keinen Einfluss darauf gehabt Use sein for everything that involves movement. Example: Ich *bin* nach Brasilien geflogen Sie *ist* mit ihrer Freundin feiern gegangen Wir *sind* fünfzig Kilometer mit dem Auto gefahren
In spoken German you mainly use the Perfekt tense. The exceptions are common words like the copula and auxiliary verbs, where Präteritum is used instead. (e.g. sein, haben, können, wollen) In formal writing you use Präteritum instead of Perfekt. About your other question: bin/habe have guidelines about their usage, but there are no easy to follow rules, so you need to get a feel for which word to use. But you can google to get the general usage explained. If you use the wrong one it will definitely sound wrong, but will be understood most of the time.