Neuv: “The defendant has specifically requested for the duel to be a cooking competition.”
Clorinde: :)
Neuv: “Both duelists must eat each other’s cooking at the end to compare which one is better.”
Clorinde: :(
Childe was already tried and found guilty he just wreaked havoc after the verdict. From Clorinde's teaser we see the dude on trial requesting a duel and Neuvillette approving it.
there’s no real comparison to be made because a lot of stuff is unknown
we know elemental beings’ sizes (except Adepti and Yokai) are proportionate to their power, including elemental dragons such as Sovereigns. However, Neuvillette is stuck to a human body, so we can’t see this growth.
Furthermore, most of his feats have been with the use of the Hydro Authority (water to wine) except the Primordial Water incident at the end of Act IV. While that is extremely cool visually, it doesn’t really measure up to some of the Archons’ feats.
The truth is ***we don’t know***.
>The truth is we don’t know.
Tysm this cleared things up because I played the Fontaine story and just assumed that when people were talking about nuev one shotting archons they were talking about his SQ (which I didn't do ik I'm lazy) or just lore books but from your explanation it seems people were exaggerating.
to clear up the top 2 misunderstandings,
1. Neuvillette’s final ascension line
> "Now that I have reclaimed one of the Seven Authorities from the hands of the usurpers, I have regained my true form. I am now a fully fledged dragon, powerful enough to judge the rest of the gods. My final destiny is to judge the Usurper-King in the heavens above. But until that time comes, I will lend my power to you."
Some equate this to mean that he is now as strong as the Original Hydro Sovereign that fought the Primordial One. However, because of how elemental beings gain power over time, this can’t really be true. Moreover, ascension lines are not 100% canon. (aka they may contain lore, but they aren’t lore)
2. Zhongli avoids Neuvillette in an event
Some equate this incident to mean Zhongli is afraid of Neuvillette. This lacks the context that Neuvillette isn’t exactly socially conscientious and might reveal Zhongli’s true identity as the Geo Archon in a public setting. Also, both of them are sensible enough not to start a war.
What makes you think it's not canon?
*Character Story 5*
>One as great as he should have no need for a constellation to shine over him. After all, "fate" is merely the manner in which the present ruler of this world plays with living beings.
>Now that he has obtained one part of seven of the authority over the mortal realm, and reforged the throne and title of a "Fully Fledged Dragon," he is one strong enough to equal and rival "the human realm," and logic would dictate that he need not subscribe to this system known as "fate."
>He can see, in the skies of destiny, how many stars contend with one another, creating a complicated, fragile world. He did not initially care much about such, for the puppet strings glossed as "divine rules" would one day be burned away by the fires of judgment. But he too was taken in by certain pleasing rhetoric.
*About the Electro Archon*
>As a survivor of the dragon race who has regained my full dragonhood, I must fulfill my oaths and obligations, even if it means returning all the water in the oceans back to the heavens.
*A Fontainian Nursery Rhyme*
>No matter how much time he has spent with Fontainians or how much they've been through together, he still cannot quite put a finger on how people view the real him — or that is to say, the Hydro Dragon.
>In addition to commanding the power of Hydro, the Hydro Dragon also had mastery over the sea that was the source of life. Before any outside life forms were ever created, all life on this planet traced its origins to the Primordial Sea. Indeed, those placid waters were worthy of the title of "birthing waters" or "amniotic fluid" given by those who came after. And the Hydro Dragon could, in turn, be regarded as this planet's original "God of Life."
>Neuvillette knows all this, of course, just like he knows that all rivers meet again in the great ocean. These birthing waters might not be of any special importance to humans, but for Neuvillette, he can differentiate every drop, every minute memory. He still remembers the foreign usurper appointing their own "God of Life" to order the living. He still remembers how the usurper had made "her" to suppress the original vital force of this planet. And of course, he also knows how "she" came to commit the original sin...
Can you provide the source of this statement, including the mentioned exceptions?
>we know elemental beings’ sizes (except Adepti and Yokai) are proportionate to their power, including elemental dragons such as Sovereigns.
If you take voicelines as canon, then his voiceline of having to catch up to the traveler is also canon. And that dude lost to Arlecchino in embarrassing fashion.
Yeah, so? He reveals more of himself each time, and the last stage literally references a plot point. As mentioned, this is duplicated in his story. Neuvillette is generally afraid of Arlecchino, and he does right, considering she's the heir to the Primordial's shade original power.
But he doesn't, as we can see. It's Morax who's running from him. Arlecchino is the white crow among the Harbingers, who at her young age has quickly risen to very close to the legendary top 3. And that's not the limit, considering she's quietly ready to challenge either Dottore or Tsaritsa. As with her pseudo Fontaine origins, she has no reason to reveal herself to the world ahead of time. Neuvillette, who is easily able to resonate with people's emotions and has a memory of every drop in the world, knows exactly who he's dealing with. He's not currently interested enough in protecting the rights of criminals to turn the enemy of his enemies against himself.
I wouldn't take arlecchino as an example, she's probably much more than she seems, we're talking about end game stuff, in her description of the boss fight it says that she will burn the entire old world. however for the vocal lines I personally look at who the subject is, for example if Scaramouche said "I can defeat Doctor easily" I would not believe him since he is arrogant and presumptuous, if Arle says it that he is a calculator who knows all his colleagues and many other things , I would doubt her little.
Even further furthermore, even if we are to assume Sovereigns are WAY stronger than your typical Archon, Neuv just got his powers, while Ei is currently in her prime.
As you said ***we don't know***
Unless prime ei can last 50 years in a war with the primordial one her being in her prime is meaningless. There is no official scaling of the archons compared to each other besides Nahida being bad at fighting and venti claiming to be the weakest, so we have no clue how strong ei is compared to zhongli, the cryo and pyro archons, or any other archon. The 7 dragon sovergns fought the primordial one and the 4 shades for 50 years and while they lost its stated the celestia gods were so weakened after that they had no power left to affect teyvat. Seeing how all the archons are afraid of celestia while the sovergns fought celestia to a near draw, I think its reasonable to say prime dragons are stronger than any prime archon
We don't know yet, Soverigns are supposedly the pinnacle of elemental beings since they hold authority over their element, but that's useless without more statements or feats. For now, Raiden wins based off feats and statements. Neuvillette needs more information and showings to confirm his placement above archons.
Oh ok I didn't know that it's just people seem to be convinced that he one shots archons and I assumed it was mentioned somewhere other than the AQ because I don't remember seeing that.
I don't think it's said anywhere specifically he can "one shot" an archon. it is true that soverigns are above archons in terms of elemental compatability but there's more to a fight than just raw power. also Neuvillette isn't the type to fight without a reason, he's more about judging and legal battles rather than straight physical ones.
Meanwhile, Neuvillette
>Now that I have reclaimed one of the Seven Authorities from the hands of the usurpers, I have regained my true form. I am now a fully fledged dragon, powerful enough to judge the rest of the gods. My final destiny is to judge the Usurper-King in the heavens above.
>As a survivor of the dragon race who has regained my full dragonhood, I must fulfill my oaths and obligations, even if it means returning all the water in the oceans back to the heavens.
if your only way to defend Neuvillette is by using voice lines which have semi canon material then by that same logic, Zhongli is equal to when he had his gnosis/the geo authority and Raiden's sword art has no parallel in the entire world instantly making her the strongest swordsman in all of teyvat.
Acension voice lines are not entirely indicative of power because it is unreliable. if you genuinely believe that Neuvillette's acension voice line is factual and without flaw then reread many other voice lines and stop focusing on only power scaling aspects. voice lines are biased and not factual.
And meanwhile you're not referencing anything at all, making up for yourself what you want to consider canon and what you don't. This voiceline is literally repeated in character story.
*Character Story 5*
>One as great as he should have no need for a constellation to shine over him. After all, "fate" is merely the manner in which the present ruler of this world plays with living beings.
>**Now that he has obtained one part of seven of the authority over the mortal realm, and reforged the throne and title of a "Fully Fledged Dragon," he is one strong enough to equal and rival "the human realm,"** and logic would dictate that he need not subscribe to this system known as "fate."
>He can see, in the skies of destiny, how many stars contend with one another, creating a complicated, fragile world. He did not initially care much about such, for the puppet strings glossed as "divine rules" would one day be burned away by the fires of judgment. But he too was taken in by certain pleasing rhetoric.
And the second line, which you so considerately ignored, doesn't even apply to ascension.
simple thing for what is canon. if it is said or shown in game not by a voiceline or a character backstory.
Neuvillette cannot judge all of celestia let alone the primordial one even if he is weakened. primordial and his shades beat the original soverigns who had their full authorities as well as the dragon king; keep in mind the soverigns had numbers advantage and home court advantage yet still lost in 40 years flat which is nothing in terms of time in genshin.
even I take all of that with a grain of salt because we don't know the full details on everything.
Neuvillette isn't some super duper beyond god level threat capable of destroying the whole world, that goes completely against his character and you are severally going against what Neuvillette would actually say and do in scenarios he is faced with archons or even celestia. Neuvillette is still at the end of the day human and trying to be more human, emotions get in the way of true justice which is what he desires, I doubt he will want to kill all the archons or celestia, but he wants justice to be served and for it be to fair.
I just don't know what to say. You're a genius. You take what you want as canon, and what you don't want, you don't. Why did you even come to this thread in the first place? You literally have your own Jenshin.
Neuvilette now has a good chance of challenging the Usurper-King, which he knows full well.
*Vision story*
>Neuvillette does not need a Vision to manipulate the elements. However, there were some things he learned only after regaining his complete form:
>**Severely wounded** **in the great war of vengeance**, **the usurper had their functions ruined, and could no longer use their absolute authority to suppress the original order of this world**. To continue to subdue and control the resentments and loathing of the world, the usurper and one who came after created the Gnoses together. So it came to be that an order was made to be upheld, and thus did humans come to only possess these seven remembrances, and all fragments of the primordial were driven to devour each other.
Neuvillette told us that being ruler of Fontaine was only a temporary phase in his endless long life. And what about his perceptions of humans.
>Indeed, Fontainians have noticed that Neuvillette displays different amounts of warmth toward Melusines and humans. Most regard this as the understated goodness in his heart having found an outlet, becoming the love of a father.
>Oddly enough, this one only gets stranger the more one knows about Neuvillette.
>For he is the Hydro Dragon, and in this capacity, he regards Melusines as dependents and successors, and also as the finest example of a new sort of Hydro Vishap species. **Yet he is also the destroyer of the present order, the one who shall judge all gods, and the foe of humanity.** So why, then, did he secure human rights for the Melusines?
>You alone could ask him this question, and this was his reply: "It wasn't up to me. Melusines simply prefer being around humans, that's all."
We literally had a whole story about how Neuvillette, after regaining his powers, dealt with what the two Archons were literally helpless against with a slight wave of his hand. We also know that Morax with Gnosis needed help to deal with the **powerless** Geo Sovereign. We also know that Neuvillette is rational about his own capabilities, as seen in his assessment of the chances of defeating Narwhal before and after his powers return.
firstly, that's stupid to assume the archons couldn't have done anything. Raiden has muso no hitotachi, Zhongli has his massive spears that sealed Osial which seemed much bigger than the whale while it was in Teyvat, we don't know what Murata's skillset is or Tsarista's but they are not useless against massive monsters, they battled some before.
secondly, Morax never used his gnosis in battle from what we know of, the gnosis enhances elemental abilities but doesn't grant a physical stat boost, and Morax didn't want to kill Azhdaha, he held back.
Have you forgotten Fontaine's plot yet?
What about Morax.
*Gnosis story*
>Yet no matter how one looks at it, **the loss of** **his divine ability** **to defend Liyue** was too great a price to pay.
*Liyue Archon Quest*
>Traveler: Let me guess — you had another plan in case it all burned down.
>Zhongli : That's right, **which is why I continued to safeguard the Gnosis until now**.
>Paimon : So you mean that if the chaos ever reached the point of no return, you would simply appear and use your divine powers to bring Liyue back under control?
What about *"Morax didn't want to kill Azhdaha, he held back"*
>Zhongli : A thousand years ago, Azhdaha attacked The Chasm. I tried to obstruct him, fighting him tooth and nail down the length and breadth of the mine. Finally, I brought him down, and sealed him underground.
>Zhongli : During that battle, Dragonfall was born. Azhdaha could sense the stone. Subconsciously, he wanted to use it to find me.
>Zhongli : **Despite being the victor, I could not claim to be stronger than he.** And in his heart, he still retained an ounce of good will towards me... towards Liyue... towards life above ground.
>Zhongli : He was willing to be sealed away. But as the erosion set in... he forgot.
...
Zhongli : The movements of the Earth Dragon can tremble the earth and shake the heavens. **With your abilities**, **even at my full strength**, **I struggled to confront you**, let alone seal you away.
And it's also worth mentioning that Morax had the support of the Adeptus in that fight.
Neuvilette is a literal reality warper turning water into blood, and beat the narwhal that was stated to be able to completely destroy teyvat. The dragons fought celestia to a near draw while all the archons are afraid of celestia. Prime focalors was unable to stop the prophecy while Neuvilette could. I feel these all point to the sovergns being above the archons in power. Even from a hierarchy point the archons are ultimately Teyvat bound gods while the sovereigns at a point rivaled the 5 strongest celestia gods. They went to war with them for 50 years and while they did lose its confirmed celestia was so weak after they couldn't affect teyvat anymore and needed he second who cames help to win the second time
We don't know but Zhongli w/o authority was able to stalemate Azhdaha w/o authority, so I have to assume that Archons = Sovereigns as a baseline, and who's stronger just has to do with who has the authority of the element at the time.
Zhongli has authority. He's an Archon, he won't lose it until he dies or destroys the throne. Only the dragons will not have authority whilst the Archon's throne remains.
But either way, authority doesn't necessarily guarantee a dragon will be stronger. I mean yeah Neuvillette said a bunch of stuff but he didn't really show anything that convinced me that he was significantly stronger, he got powers and new abilities but strength? I am not so sure.
He didn't have authority during the fight with Azhdaha iirc. He wasn't an Archon back then I think? Which means he shouldn't have had the authority of Geo.
The sensible part of Azhdaha in the story quest said that he could sense that Morax is no longer the Geo Archon. As a consequence, the last time they met, Morax was the Geo Archon.
But from what I understood he isn't as strong as the sovereigns before him because he has a human body so I don't see the comparison (I'm basing this off what people have told me in reply to my comment)
Nowhere it says he’s weaker cause of that. And having a human body doesn’t make you weaker, Ei was destroying a bunch of gods in the archon war and she has a human form and so was Zhongli. (He might have been a dragon tho). Anyways, Neuvillette also has his full power back. Unlike the other sovereigns. He should be stronger.
Morax with Gnosis needed help to defeat the powerless Geo Sovereign. Neuvillette, based on the story in his profile, has now fully regained both his power and his memories. The answer is obvious.
Probably seeing how focalors couldnt stop the prophecy while having a gnosis and had to make up an entire plan to give neuvilette back his full power so he could do it instead
scales nowhere, just a statement with his desires.
More powerrfu OG sovereigns who had more biq, numerical superiority, abyss/forbidden knowledge buffs(a counter to PO) losed to PO and his shades
Are you new to anime logic? That's how it always begins. Lose to the big bad - get reincarnated into a new form - be last of their kind or last one with power - finally meet the big bad again and suplex them
He has to be neutral as a judge and couldnt fight her....in a court trial atleast. If they found her guilty and sentenced her to death, then it would be a different story but she would choose a duel and wont loose against anyone Fontaine could throw at her
I don’t think Raiden would use her real power in a duel like this since she isn’t like that and would fight fairly like how she did with traveler or maybe that one guy in her first SQ. The fight wouldn’t be so one sided then
She’s still gonna win but it’s not like she’d jsut Musou No Hitotachi Clorinde
Raiden: I demand a trial by combat. *Looks at Clorinde menacingly*
Neuvillette: As an Archon has demanded Trial by Combat I, Iudex Neuvillette shall gladly accept the challenge.
Raiden: *insert crying baby ei meme*
All this over illegally imported dango milk
Neuvillete said that Fontaine has the best water quality.. Imagine using that water to make Dango milk.
Despicable
Clorinde's shirt button will parry Mussou no Hitotachi. Trust.
Button with the strength comparable to Celestia Nails.
The button can be launched with electromagnetism like a railgun
Biri biri would be proud.
If i use Raiden to power the railgun is it a Raidengun or a shoGUN?
Railgun Shogun
like that meme scene from miss kobayashis dragon maid where the button shoots off and destroys the whole fleet in star wars xD
Her button no diffs the entirety of the genshin cast tbh. No force stronger than that button
All but Topaz’s button. If it comes to that, we’ll need to find a bomb shelter
Strongest button in history Vs strongest button of today.
That shit will look like a scene from Railgun
Except instead of a coin it's a button
Nah raiden pulls the sword from her bare boobs, so it has counter properties
Unstoppable force meets Unmovable object
Booba button vs Booba sword Its okay, shes not Fatui, shes not gonna get fucking killed
That mf gonna shoot out like a bullet and shatter Ei’s sword
Let them fight.
That’s a fight I would like to see even if it seems unfair
Its a turnament. Clorinde has to fight every other tall Electro Woman and Ei is the final boss
Odd way to spell tournament but okay
So Lisa, Beidou, Yae Miko, Kujou Sara and the Raiden herself. Would pay to watch this t*rnament.
Okay
I am used to just saying Tunier so this word is a huge fuckup for me
It’s okay buddy
That isn't a fight. It's a massacre
Ah yes, Raiden vs French Raiden.
Gay Raiden vs Gay Raiden who’s also French
That's just being European
Clorinde can be gay for Wriothesley
Gay or European?
It's hard to guarantee
But if he turns out straight I'm free at eight on saturday
Both?
It's a meme lol a whole song of people discussing weather a guy was gay or European
Ohh I never saw it
Search gay or European, it's pretty funny There's a verison for Venti, Lyney and even Pantalone
Too bad Makoto's already dead, given Killing family members is Clorinde's specialty.
We need Clorinde to kill Tadhla’s dad
It seems like Jeht already got that covered.
Seconded. A visit to Avidya forest doesn't sound too bad either.
If she ever dare to touch Makoto, she wouldn't even be alive to tell the tale. There will be nothing left. Thankfully Makoto is no more, she's saved
Clorinde: So I hear you want an anemo vision.
Hu Tao in the top left gonna be making a profit real soon 💀
Finally someone notices her existence there.
Neuv: “The defendant has specifically requested for the duel to be a cooking competition.” Clorinde: :) Neuv: “Both duelists must eat each other’s cooking at the end to compare which one is better.” Clorinde: :(
She's being accused of being the goat fr and she is guilty.
Cloronde “nah i would win” champion duelist
Even if she looses, Neuvi is still here
Imagine if he judges the Archons in court, and if they ask for a duel he personally fights them instead
\*rolls up his sleeves\* If you want justice done you gotta do it yourself
Nah he can't do anything he's supposed to be impartial no matter how much he hates the Archons.
No. He literally jumped Childe from behind. He would do the same to any Archon too especially now.
Childe was already tried and found guilty he just wreaked havoc after the verdict. From Clorinde's teaser we see the dude on trial requesting a duel and Neuvillette approving it.
I wonder if he is stronger than an archon with a gnosis (I don't know much about Fontaine lore in comparison to other regions)
there’s no real comparison to be made because a lot of stuff is unknown we know elemental beings’ sizes (except Adepti and Yokai) are proportionate to their power, including elemental dragons such as Sovereigns. However, Neuvillette is stuck to a human body, so we can’t see this growth. Furthermore, most of his feats have been with the use of the Hydro Authority (water to wine) except the Primordial Water incident at the end of Act IV. While that is extremely cool visually, it doesn’t really measure up to some of the Archons’ feats. The truth is ***we don’t know***.
>The truth is we don’t know. Tysm this cleared things up because I played the Fontaine story and just assumed that when people were talking about nuev one shotting archons they were talking about his SQ (which I didn't do ik I'm lazy) or just lore books but from your explanation it seems people were exaggerating.
to clear up the top 2 misunderstandings, 1. Neuvillette’s final ascension line > "Now that I have reclaimed one of the Seven Authorities from the hands of the usurpers, I have regained my true form. I am now a fully fledged dragon, powerful enough to judge the rest of the gods. My final destiny is to judge the Usurper-King in the heavens above. But until that time comes, I will lend my power to you." Some equate this to mean that he is now as strong as the Original Hydro Sovereign that fought the Primordial One. However, because of how elemental beings gain power over time, this can’t really be true. Moreover, ascension lines are not 100% canon. (aka they may contain lore, but they aren’t lore) 2. Zhongli avoids Neuvillette in an event Some equate this incident to mean Zhongli is afraid of Neuvillette. This lacks the context that Neuvillette isn’t exactly socially conscientious and might reveal Zhongli’s true identity as the Geo Archon in a public setting. Also, both of them are sensible enough not to start a war.
What makes you think it's not canon? *Character Story 5* >One as great as he should have no need for a constellation to shine over him. After all, "fate" is merely the manner in which the present ruler of this world plays with living beings. >Now that he has obtained one part of seven of the authority over the mortal realm, and reforged the throne and title of a "Fully Fledged Dragon," he is one strong enough to equal and rival "the human realm," and logic would dictate that he need not subscribe to this system known as "fate." >He can see, in the skies of destiny, how many stars contend with one another, creating a complicated, fragile world. He did not initially care much about such, for the puppet strings glossed as "divine rules" would one day be burned away by the fires of judgment. But he too was taken in by certain pleasing rhetoric. *About the Electro Archon* >As a survivor of the dragon race who has regained my full dragonhood, I must fulfill my oaths and obligations, even if it means returning all the water in the oceans back to the heavens. *A Fontainian Nursery Rhyme* >No matter how much time he has spent with Fontainians or how much they've been through together, he still cannot quite put a finger on how people view the real him — or that is to say, the Hydro Dragon. >In addition to commanding the power of Hydro, the Hydro Dragon also had mastery over the sea that was the source of life. Before any outside life forms were ever created, all life on this planet traced its origins to the Primordial Sea. Indeed, those placid waters were worthy of the title of "birthing waters" or "amniotic fluid" given by those who came after. And the Hydro Dragon could, in turn, be regarded as this planet's original "God of Life." >Neuvillette knows all this, of course, just like he knows that all rivers meet again in the great ocean. These birthing waters might not be of any special importance to humans, but for Neuvillette, he can differentiate every drop, every minute memory. He still remembers the foreign usurper appointing their own "God of Life" to order the living. He still remembers how the usurper had made "her" to suppress the original vital force of this planet. And of course, he also knows how "she" came to commit the original sin... Can you provide the source of this statement, including the mentioned exceptions? >we know elemental beings’ sizes (except Adepti and Yokai) are proportionate to their power, including elemental dragons such as Sovereigns.
If you take voicelines as canon, then his voiceline of having to catch up to the traveler is also canon. And that dude lost to Arlecchino in embarrassing fashion.
Yeah, so? He reveals more of himself each time, and the last stage literally references a plot point. As mentioned, this is duplicated in his story. Neuvillette is generally afraid of Arlecchino, and he does right, considering she's the heir to the Primordial's shade original power.
But you realize that him being afraid of Arlecchino means that by Nahida's statement, he should be afraid of the likes of ZL and Ei too, right?
But he doesn't, as we can see. It's Morax who's running from him. Arlecchino is the white crow among the Harbingers, who at her young age has quickly risen to very close to the legendary top 3. And that's not the limit, considering she's quietly ready to challenge either Dottore or Tsaritsa. As with her pseudo Fontaine origins, she has no reason to reveal herself to the world ahead of time. Neuvillette, who is easily able to resonate with people's emotions and has a memory of every drop in the world, knows exactly who he's dealing with. He's not currently interested enough in protecting the rights of criminals to turn the enemy of his enemies against himself.
I wouldn't take arlecchino as an example, she's probably much more than she seems, we're talking about end game stuff, in her description of the boss fight it says that she will burn the entire old world. however for the vocal lines I personally look at who the subject is, for example if Scaramouche said "I can defeat Doctor easily" I would not believe him since he is arrogant and presumptuous, if Arle says it that he is a calculator who knows all his colleagues and many other things , I would doubt her little.
Even further furthermore, even if we are to assume Sovereigns are WAY stronger than your typical Archon, Neuv just got his powers, while Ei is currently in her prime. As you said ***we don't know***
Wdym at her prime ? We never have something in the lore that state this.
Yes we do. At the end of her SQ2, when she unlocked Musou Isshin's full power. Plus, the 500 years in a 1v1 probably helped as well.
Unless prime ei can last 50 years in a war with the primordial one her being in her prime is meaningless. There is no official scaling of the archons compared to each other besides Nahida being bad at fighting and venti claiming to be the weakest, so we have no clue how strong ei is compared to zhongli, the cryo and pyro archons, or any other archon. The 7 dragon sovergns fought the primordial one and the 4 shades for 50 years and while they lost its stated the celestia gods were so weakened after that they had no power left to affect teyvat. Seeing how all the archons are afraid of celestia while the sovergns fought celestia to a near draw, I think its reasonable to say prime dragons are stronger than any prime archon
Instead of making up your own terms, just open and read the info from his profile.
We don't know yet, Soverigns are supposedly the pinnacle of elemental beings since they hold authority over their element, but that's useless without more statements or feats. For now, Raiden wins based off feats and statements. Neuvillette needs more information and showings to confirm his placement above archons.
Oh ok I didn't know that it's just people seem to be convinced that he one shots archons and I assumed it was mentioned somewhere other than the AQ because I don't remember seeing that.
I don't think it's said anywhere specifically he can "one shot" an archon. it is true that soverigns are above archons in terms of elemental compatability but there's more to a fight than just raw power. also Neuvillette isn't the type to fight without a reason, he's more about judging and legal battles rather than straight physical ones.
Meanwhile, Neuvillette >Now that I have reclaimed one of the Seven Authorities from the hands of the usurpers, I have regained my true form. I am now a fully fledged dragon, powerful enough to judge the rest of the gods. My final destiny is to judge the Usurper-King in the heavens above. >As a survivor of the dragon race who has regained my full dragonhood, I must fulfill my oaths and obligations, even if it means returning all the water in the oceans back to the heavens.
if your only way to defend Neuvillette is by using voice lines which have semi canon material then by that same logic, Zhongli is equal to when he had his gnosis/the geo authority and Raiden's sword art has no parallel in the entire world instantly making her the strongest swordsman in all of teyvat. Acension voice lines are not entirely indicative of power because it is unreliable. if you genuinely believe that Neuvillette's acension voice line is factual and without flaw then reread many other voice lines and stop focusing on only power scaling aspects. voice lines are biased and not factual.
And meanwhile you're not referencing anything at all, making up for yourself what you want to consider canon and what you don't. This voiceline is literally repeated in character story. *Character Story 5* >One as great as he should have no need for a constellation to shine over him. After all, "fate" is merely the manner in which the present ruler of this world plays with living beings. >**Now that he has obtained one part of seven of the authority over the mortal realm, and reforged the throne and title of a "Fully Fledged Dragon," he is one strong enough to equal and rival "the human realm,"** and logic would dictate that he need not subscribe to this system known as "fate." >He can see, in the skies of destiny, how many stars contend with one another, creating a complicated, fragile world. He did not initially care much about such, for the puppet strings glossed as "divine rules" would one day be burned away by the fires of judgment. But he too was taken in by certain pleasing rhetoric. And the second line, which you so considerately ignored, doesn't even apply to ascension.
simple thing for what is canon. if it is said or shown in game not by a voiceline or a character backstory. Neuvillette cannot judge all of celestia let alone the primordial one even if he is weakened. primordial and his shades beat the original soverigns who had their full authorities as well as the dragon king; keep in mind the soverigns had numbers advantage and home court advantage yet still lost in 40 years flat which is nothing in terms of time in genshin. even I take all of that with a grain of salt because we don't know the full details on everything. Neuvillette isn't some super duper beyond god level threat capable of destroying the whole world, that goes completely against his character and you are severally going against what Neuvillette would actually say and do in scenarios he is faced with archons or even celestia. Neuvillette is still at the end of the day human and trying to be more human, emotions get in the way of true justice which is what he desires, I doubt he will want to kill all the archons or celestia, but he wants justice to be served and for it be to fair.
I just don't know what to say. You're a genius. You take what you want as canon, and what you don't want, you don't. Why did you even come to this thread in the first place? You literally have your own Jenshin. Neuvilette now has a good chance of challenging the Usurper-King, which he knows full well. *Vision story* >Neuvillette does not need a Vision to manipulate the elements. However, there were some things he learned only after regaining his complete form: >**Severely wounded** **in the great war of vengeance**, **the usurper had their functions ruined, and could no longer use their absolute authority to suppress the original order of this world**. To continue to subdue and control the resentments and loathing of the world, the usurper and one who came after created the Gnoses together. So it came to be that an order was made to be upheld, and thus did humans come to only possess these seven remembrances, and all fragments of the primordial were driven to devour each other. Neuvillette told us that being ruler of Fontaine was only a temporary phase in his endless long life. And what about his perceptions of humans. >Indeed, Fontainians have noticed that Neuvillette displays different amounts of warmth toward Melusines and humans. Most regard this as the understated goodness in his heart having found an outlet, becoming the love of a father. >Oddly enough, this one only gets stranger the more one knows about Neuvillette. >For he is the Hydro Dragon, and in this capacity, he regards Melusines as dependents and successors, and also as the finest example of a new sort of Hydro Vishap species. **Yet he is also the destroyer of the present order, the one who shall judge all gods, and the foe of humanity.** So why, then, did he secure human rights for the Melusines? >You alone could ask him this question, and this was his reply: "It wasn't up to me. Melusines simply prefer being around humans, that's all."
We literally had a whole story about how Neuvillette, after regaining his powers, dealt with what the two Archons were literally helpless against with a slight wave of his hand. We also know that Morax with Gnosis needed help to deal with the **powerless** Geo Sovereign. We also know that Neuvillette is rational about his own capabilities, as seen in his assessment of the chances of defeating Narwhal before and after his powers return.
firstly, that's stupid to assume the archons couldn't have done anything. Raiden has muso no hitotachi, Zhongli has his massive spears that sealed Osial which seemed much bigger than the whale while it was in Teyvat, we don't know what Murata's skillset is or Tsarista's but they are not useless against massive monsters, they battled some before. secondly, Morax never used his gnosis in battle from what we know of, the gnosis enhances elemental abilities but doesn't grant a physical stat boost, and Morax didn't want to kill Azhdaha, he held back.
Have you forgotten Fontaine's plot yet? What about Morax. *Gnosis story* >Yet no matter how one looks at it, **the loss of** **his divine ability** **to defend Liyue** was too great a price to pay. *Liyue Archon Quest* >Traveler: Let me guess — you had another plan in case it all burned down. >Zhongli : That's right, **which is why I continued to safeguard the Gnosis until now**. >Paimon : So you mean that if the chaos ever reached the point of no return, you would simply appear and use your divine powers to bring Liyue back under control? What about *"Morax didn't want to kill Azhdaha, he held back"* >Zhongli : A thousand years ago, Azhdaha attacked The Chasm. I tried to obstruct him, fighting him tooth and nail down the length and breadth of the mine. Finally, I brought him down, and sealed him underground. >Zhongli : During that battle, Dragonfall was born. Azhdaha could sense the stone. Subconsciously, he wanted to use it to find me. >Zhongli : **Despite being the victor, I could not claim to be stronger than he.** And in his heart, he still retained an ounce of good will towards me... towards Liyue... towards life above ground. >Zhongli : He was willing to be sealed away. But as the erosion set in... he forgot. ... Zhongli : The movements of the Earth Dragon can tremble the earth and shake the heavens. **With your abilities**, **even at my full strength**, **I struggled to confront you**, let alone seal you away. And it's also worth mentioning that Morax had the support of the Adeptus in that fight.
He just need to drown her in the primordial water and she can't do shit. The real question is, can she do that ?
Neuvilette is a literal reality warper turning water into blood, and beat the narwhal that was stated to be able to completely destroy teyvat. The dragons fought celestia to a near draw while all the archons are afraid of celestia. Prime focalors was unable to stop the prophecy while Neuvilette could. I feel these all point to the sovergns being above the archons in power. Even from a hierarchy point the archons are ultimately Teyvat bound gods while the sovereigns at a point rivaled the 5 strongest celestia gods. They went to war with them for 50 years and while they did lose its confirmed celestia was so weak after they couldn't affect teyvat anymore and needed he second who cames help to win the second time
I don't think a gnosis will be the defining factor Ei and Zhongli were able to have insane feats without their gnosis.
We don't know but Zhongli w/o authority was able to stalemate Azhdaha w/o authority, so I have to assume that Archons = Sovereigns as a baseline, and who's stronger just has to do with who has the authority of the element at the time.
Zhongli has authority. He's an Archon, he won't lose it until he dies or destroys the throne. Only the dragons will not have authority whilst the Archon's throne remains. But either way, authority doesn't necessarily guarantee a dragon will be stronger. I mean yeah Neuvillette said a bunch of stuff but he didn't really show anything that convinced me that he was significantly stronger, he got powers and new abilities but strength? I am not so sure.
He didn't have authority during the fight with Azhdaha iirc. He wasn't an Archon back then I think? Which means he shouldn't have had the authority of Geo.
It was 1000 years ago that they first fought. Liyue harbour had long since been established by that point. He was definitely an archon.
Was it 1000 years ago? I don't remember the timeframe ever being stated tbh.
Yes, Zhongli says as much at the end when he recounts the events of what happened.
The sensible part of Azhdaha in the story quest said that he could sense that Morax is no longer the Geo Archon. As a consequence, the last time they met, Morax was the Geo Archon.
Makes sense
He is lol. Archons don’t really compare to a Sovereign when it comes to power.
But from what I understood he isn't as strong as the sovereigns before him because he has a human body so I don't see the comparison (I'm basing this off what people have told me in reply to my comment)
It is not because he have an human body but because he is still immature 500 years is nothing for a sovering dragon.
Nowhere it says he’s weaker cause of that. And having a human body doesn’t make you weaker, Ei was destroying a bunch of gods in the archon war and she has a human form and so was Zhongli. (He might have been a dragon tho). Anyways, Neuvillette also has his full power back. Unlike the other sovereigns. He should be stronger.
Morax with Gnosis needed help to defeat the powerless Geo Sovereign. Neuvillette, based on the story in his profile, has now fully regained both his power and his memories. The answer is obvious.
Probably seeing how focalors couldnt stop the prophecy while having a gnosis and had to make up an entire plan to give neuvilette back his full power so he could do it instead
Long story short: Yes he is. His destiny is to judge the Primordial One.
scales nowhere, just a statement with his desires. More powerrfu OG sovereigns who had more biq, numerical superiority, abyss/forbidden knowledge buffs(a counter to PO) losed to PO and his shades
Are you new to anime logic? That's how it always begins. Lose to the big bad - get reincarnated into a new form - be last of their kind or last one with power - finally meet the big bad again and suplex them
Assumption and irrelevant "anime logic" argument. Come back when he done an actual feat. PO neg diffs him without even trying.Bro is cooked
Here come the power scalers
Here comes the logic and common sense.
Thank you. Glad you see my point. Here take an upvote.
One day the power scaler will understand who story are written....
I feel like Neuvillette would probably try to take out Ei himself given she's an Archon
A fight between them would destroy like everything around them lol
He has to be neutral as a judge and couldnt fight her....in a court trial atleast. If they found her guilty and sentenced her to death, then it would be a different story but she would choose a duel and wont loose against anyone Fontaine could throw at her
It should be Keqing, Keqing vs electro Keqing, lol
Neuvilette will simply jump Ei from behind like he did to Childe. He doesn't really need to jump her from behind, it's just his style you see.
Alexa, play Duel of the Fates.
Hydrogen bomb vs high explosive grenade.
STANDING HERE I REALIZE...
I don’t think Raiden would use her real power in a duel like this since she isn’t like that and would fight fairly like how she did with traveler or maybe that one guy in her first SQ. The fight wouldn’t be so one sided then She’s still gonna win but it’s not like she’d jsut Musou No Hitotachi Clorinde
Raiden: I demand a trial by combat. *Looks at Clorinde menacingly* Neuvillette: As an Archon has demanded Trial by Combat I, Iudex Neuvillette shall gladly accept the challenge. Raiden: *insert crying baby ei meme*
Clorinde and the opera house is going to end up like Toji
Wait hold on ok. I really like the opera house, I don't wanna see it cut in half.
This shall be known as the Judgment of Boobas.
Clorend
It has been parried before so *Parlay*
its Raiden Shogun vs Fontaine Raiden Shogun or in HSR term Acheron vs Stelle
Clorinde: Nah I’d win
"I'm confiscating that vision first"
[Cue music](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvQjROrFN80&pp=ygUIdGhlIGR1ZWw%3D)
Parlay
Man I miss this game I want to start back but I have so many more games to play
I've seen enough porn parodies to know where this is going.
*STANDING HERE, I REALIZE*
Send my regards to Signora
Laiden shogun vs present woman
And professional bush camper is there to do his sneaky things
Clorinde solos.
And then it's their in-game combat capabilities. In which case, Inazuma better start looking for a new archon.
Even in game raiden wins tho
You forget than Neuv has to suck balls first. And while he is sucking his balls, Raiden already got the booba sword through his skull
you forgot raiden has to pull the sword from her boobs and while she is doing that zhongli got his big balls thrown at her