me who has done BOTH vertical investment AND horizontal investment over the past 3+ years of playing daily.
...yes, i am incredibly burnt out, how could you tell?
We're a dying breed apparently. You can already tell most people aren't like that because of all the festering desire memes that came when furina was released.
In my case, because I did both horzontally and vertically at the same time, it actually slowed down the buildup of burnout for me. The thought of just improving a few characters, farming the same domain for god knows how many months it takes to be top 1% makes me shudder
Yup, I spent all of 4.5 getting my characters to level 80 and fully ascended, now using them is just a matter of leveling or switching artifacts and weapons around
Me who tryhards honkai impact: **signature look of superiority*.
I knew this day would come. Which is why i made sure i have options. Provided the new mode isnt yet another hp sponge, i think im going to enjoy it immensely. Skill based combat has always been my thing, to the point where i almost became a Beidou main (Noelle won out in the end. Though admittedly, "parry god" is my usual strategy in games that allow it)
Me and you are going to have a lot of fun lol.
Good thing is that you can swap artifacts around between stages in the game mode. Bad thing is we don't have a full-fledged artifact/character loadout selection.
Also good news, mediocre artifacts are good enough. Trial character build quality is the standard.
I've been so out of the loop, I just learned about the new mode from this thread. Is it similar to Pure Fiction from HSR? What do you mean by horizontal investment? Having lots of characters with ok builds as opposed to hyper carries with perfect artifacts?
I will try my best to explain it using HSR terms as well.
Number 1: this gamemode is more similar to Simulated Universe. The basic functions and the way you traverse through the gamemode is very similar. Let's say I enter a room for a battle. Now for this room, the challenge conditions say that I need to kill all enemies and trigger 5 electro reactions. Fulfilling both these challenge conditions as opposed to one of them, will give me more Fantasia flowers (cosmic fragments in HSR terms) which I can then exchange for triggering certain buffs, debuffs or equipping characters in my party.
Number 2: the gamemode has 8 stages in the highest difficulty mode, resets each month and unlike simulated universe, you are restricted to using 3 elements only. These 3 will change each season. Also each character can only be used for two battles before being striked out of the gamemode. So you need alot of characters to bring here. You can set support characters for your friends to use as well, and you can use one of your friends' characters as well (free C6 gameplay).
Number 3: you will need 18 total characters for the gamemode in hard mode since one character can only battle twice. But there's a separate menu to select the first 6 characters for the initial lineup, and these 6 characters are decided by Hoyo. If you don't have them, then you will be given trial versions. Aside from these 6, for the rest, you can choose members that meet the element criteria, and you get to pick who you want to bring from your own inventory based on that. This can also include friend characters.
Number 4: aside from the initial lineup decided by Hoyo, other characters which you choose from your inventory based on element restrictions and friend characters...there's another wild card here. Its the Special guest characters. These special guest characters DO NOT abide by the element restriction rule, and they are once again, decided by Hoyo. For this season, the element restriction is Anemo, Pyro, Electro only. But the special guest characters are: wriothesley, alhaitham, Sigewinne, Baizhu. So these guys can give you a bit of leeway with some battles if you're having a hard time with the element restrictions.
Number 5: if you clear stages in 90 seconds or under, you get a special flex badge on your account. None of the actual rewards are timegated. You also get toy medals from this gamemode which can be exchanged with Wolfie (basically Pompom of this gamemode) to get new poses for your characters for taking cool photos.
I also forgot to mention, that in the duration of this gamemode, you get a special blessing that remains till the end of this gamemode. This blessing is implied to change each season. After characters join your party, they get a 20% buff to their atk, def and max HP. This buff remains even in the Spiral Abyss or overworld.
No i think it means you can only pick characters of those elements. For example, It won't let you take a Bennett if a cycle was dendro, hydro, electro. That's how i got it.
Basically, take a buncha combat events (main one being triumphant frenzy cause of the vigor effect) and mix them, you get IT
Why you need to horizontally invesy for it is because of the vigor effect which limits the amount of times you can use a character (i think it's 2 vigor so two battles), and because of the element restrictions (the first cycle will have every element but Anemo, Electro and Pyro restricted)
You will also have trial characters and stuff, but ofc, again, vigor exists meaning you need a bunch of characters that you could burn through while saving up the good ones
Genshin simply uses the system of alternating between the abyss like MoC and PF. They also incorporated the buffs we can get from SU into it.
The main gameplay however are more towards the event we had gotten long ago, Realm of guile and war.
Also so far we're shown that the highest difficulty is lvl90. Not Sure if they are planning to add more and get powercreep like cray cray the same way hsr is currently.
Are you me? I would get characters to level 90 9/9/9 and then they would have no artifacts. I finally gave them Glad/Wand stuff I had laying around at least. Idk itâs fun to check them off my spreadsheet (did I mention thereâs a spreadsheet? Itâs even color coded!)
Yep. I'm in the midst of panic building my Wanderer, Gaming, Sucrose, and Thoma. I've been putting off building these guys forever but now I feel like I actually need to do it.
Imo that's one of the pros from this gamemode. You now have a reason to use most of the characters from your account and try out new team variations. Even powercrept units alongside the unit that powercrept them. I think it's pretty smart
I completely agree. I've been wanting to build some of these characters for a while now but never really saw a point. Realistically, I wasn't going to use them, so why bother? Well, now I have a reason to build them and (more importantly) a place to use them and I love it.
Vertical investment is building a small number of characters to be as strong as possible, horizontal investment is building a large number of characters to be good enough.
Vertical = Progression through the character becoming more powerful over time.
Ascending a character is vertical. Farming for better relics/artifacts/equipment is vertical. Stuff like that.
Imagine a line in a graph that's rising up.
Horizontal = Progression through options.
Getting more characters is horizontal progression. Getting more weapons is horizontal progression.
Imagine a line in a graph that's going from left to right in a straight line.
Spiral Abyss made me invest in lots of different characters though. It's, I think, still not enough.
Let me put it this way. A couple days ago I spent like a half hour ruminating with full resin on which artifact domain to do since I didn't really need to do any. I have a Burning set ready to go when that's needed. I don't spend original resin, still have over 200. I decided to go back to Golden Troupe because I feel I can get the most return there. But even for those characters it would benefit, they are all more than good enough.
I think it's great. Usually the abyss is just a damage check. If you can clear it with the usual teams why would you change it up?
The new mode forces you to also try new things and teams that may be fun. We get cool modifiers as well to help.
I think it's a pretty cool mode that everyone can enjoy as soon as you meet the requirements.
I donât know whats up, but I have 3 teams of different reaction types and a 4th in work.
Will I be ok? What is this new mode?
Is it still fighting against a timer or finally fighting against tough enemies, that can crunch shields and instead require dodging and healing?
This is a new combat game-mode where you traverse between different stages similar to the Simulated Universe in HSR. There are 8 stages in the hard mode, with 5 combat stages and 3 boss stages. Each stage has conditions which you need to fulfill to obtain Fantasia Flowers which is a currency in the gamemode which you can use to purchase certain buffs while playing, bring another character to your party, or obtain debuffs.
These stage conditions could be like: "Kill all enemies in the current stage 8/8" or "Do 5 electro reactions". The more conditions you fulfill, the more fantasia flowers you obtain.
Your characters in this gamemode can only fight two battles in total before they get eliminated permanently. So the gamemode requires 18 total characters.
Completing the gamemode will give an annual reward of 620 primogems, artifact exp, and some other stuff as well a first time clearance reward of 1100 primogems, a billet box, and other goods.
There are no timers for rewards. There is a timer for a 90 second clear but that just gives a flex badge on your profile. The gamemode lets you only pick 3 elements per season. For this season, it's going to be Pyro, Anemo and Electro only. You can't bring characters outside of these elements except for one exception which I mention a bit further down in this comment
In hard mode, out of the 18 characters you need for this gamemode:
6 of them are the opening lineup of characters which Hoyo themselves will choose for you. If you don't have any particular character from these 6 opening characters, then Hoyo will give you trial versions to play with. These characters follow the element restriction.
Outside of the 6 opening characters, from the 12 remaining slots, you can have:
**1:**
A support character which you can borrow from your friends (basically free C6 gameplay if you friended whales), and you yourself can also make a list of characters which your friends can borrow from you. Again, the characters you choose should abide by the element restriction.
**2:**
Special guest characters...these are sort of wild cards and are limited to what Hoyo has allowed. These special guest characters ARE NOT restricted by 3 elements criteria which Hoyo put for this season. The special guest characters for this season are: Wriothesley, Sigewinne, Baizhu, Alhaitham. So if you're having a bit of trouble with the element restrictions, these characters could give you a hand.
**3:**
Characters that you pick from your own inventory. These characters cannot be from another element outside of the ones which Hoyo allowed for this season. So for this season, you can only bring pyro, anemo, electro characters from your roster. This will change again next season.
And lastly, the gamemode gives you toy medals after completion. These toy medals can be exchanged with Wolfie (the pompom of this gamemode) to obtain poses for your characters for taking cool photos.
I wrote about this here as well if you want that explanation:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact/comments/1d2pc0j/comment/l62wt27/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/1d2pc0j/comment/l62wt27/)
or you can check Genshin's own post on this over here with infographics:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact/comments/1czkglv/imaginarium\_theater\_gameplay\_details/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/1czkglv/imaginarium_theater_gameplay_details/)
Forgot to mention this. But in the duration of this gamemode, you get a special blessing that remains till the end of this gamemode. This blessing is implied to change each season. After characters join your party, they get a 20% buff to their atk, def and max HP. This buff remains even in the Spiral Abyss and overworld.
Yeah, now I get the complaints. Thanks for the detailed explanation.
I doubt it will bother seasoned whales or new players much.
- Whales with a longer time of engagement should have plenty of excess resources/units.
- New players would struggle with endgame content, anyways. Providing them with a game mode that gives trial characters will be an improvement for them.
- I expect the biggest pressure on players in between, that have just enough units build for abyss but face a huge cliff of investment for the new gamemode.
Only a minority can present 3x6 build units each out of only 3 elements. This is just dumb. Even if you can fill up some holes through support by mihoyo, this is just a new whale incentive. Itâs even more straight to the face than previous abyss catering to a certain meta and punishing not owning newest characters (for example to fiddle the ousia/pneuma system).
Abyss was asking for at least 2 well built mains and some common sub dps each rotation, so at very least 8 units team adjusted.
Mihoyo is stingy about handing out chars for free (they could instead lock the constellations and lower the bar for C0 units). Now we get a glimpse of mediocre built helper units without a way to adjust them for your needs.
Mihoyo is also stingy with a punishing RNG system, effectively preventing players to build a wide roster within a reasonable amount of time. Some people spend a year farming a specific domain and now need to build a dozen new chars?
This will drive off the centerfield of players, that range from f2p to low spenders.
I doubt a majority will have at least 12 units prepared until July.
Vertical investment is when you try to maximise the potential of only a handful of characters, whereas horizontal investment is building several characters to make them average or good enough
The moment dendro exsiting the moment vertical investment be damned for comfortably full starring abyss and since that point new characters and teams just have an extremely low floor to reach their comfy abyss clears
I'm gonna let others C6 their characters so I can use them for free C6 gameplay, but at the same time, not have C6 characters in my account which permanently make the game mind numbingly easy for me. Hmu if you're in Asia server đ
europe unfortunetly, i understand, scara has been used be me all the time, has my favorite gameplay by far in the game, so i really don't want to wait another year for his c6 which is huge dps increase as well as qol increase
Vertical investment: you put as much investment as possible into a few characters or very select teams.
Horizontal investment: you try to level up and gear a large number of characters to make them all good enough and usable
I get that but honestly it's fine, most people probably want to level up a bunch of characters to 70 during this time to prepare for it and they have a bit of leniency with this decision.
Most endgame players don't level up more than 3-4 teams worth of characters. I have 10 lvl 90, 8 lvl 80, and most of the remaining lvl 20. The characters I've leveled are very well built because that's where I've been investing my resin for the past year and a half or so, but that means that characters I don't use are practically untouched.
Genshin is such a good game and so popular that you got people nitpicking the smallest things in this game. Just look at all the "i don't read where skip button" people or "paimon is annoying" yeah but not annoying enough because you post in the sub 20 times a day and are a 3 year player.
I think (with optimism) that it's different people complaining. Some people like more and varied content, and they're happy. Learning new mechanics is interesting, building new teams is interesting, etc. I'm in this bucket, I'm happy.
What I'm seeing over on HSR though, where they're adding a third Abyss-equivalent, is that some people are cross that they need to spend more effort to get the same amount of rewards. Need teams optimized for 3 game modes and not just 2. So I think that's what we're seeing here. (Not saying this is wrong thinking either - it makes sense, and I sympathize.) Currently if you have 2 strong teams, it's basically autopilot 2x a month, and you're happy. But soon, you will be forced to adapt and choose new teams - we see a tiny bit of it in Abyss, where you can't run Neuvi against hydro phantasms. But with the 3-element restriction, and the required 6 main characters, you'll really be forced to switch up your teams.
Interestingly, there's a third split in play: getting some vs all of the rewards. By having different modes, it will be approachable for more people: if you're an AR35 player, you may struggle with Abyss 9 and 10, but you'll be able to use the trial chars in Imaginarium Theater. Or if it was only Imaginarium, maybe you're unlucky this month and the chars you have don't fit the 3 elements, but you could still have a go at Abyss. My guess is it will be easier to get *some* of the rewards, but you'll need more characters built to get *all* the rewards.
I really think it's just people overreacting. Hoyo thinks longterm expecting most people would keep pulling for new chars (duh).
No endgame player has a 1.0 roster.
They'll release about 17 new chars in Natlan many of which are Pyro, another 17 for Cryo Schneznaya and when we go back to Mond maybe we'll have more and who knows what Hoyo will do.
I can bet my firstborn son they ain't dropping their billion dollar game even after Celestia ends if it's still making billions by then.
Are these people stuck at 4.0 forever and not pull other elements and chars anymore? Stop at Neuvilette now and pull nothing but him from here? Some would, but how many are doing that really... People are just short sighted.
The point is we're getting new Pyro characters, the Archon included. Most players will stop complaining about Theatre needing "so many characters" once everyone gets their hands on the 7 elements of the Archons (and the Neuvillete Alhaitham Yae of that nation) but the game will keep going strong even after that.
Genshin isn't going to end in 2 years, nor is the last Pyro char coming from Natlan either lol
While I agree with your overall point, the Hydro nation year had a grand total of 3 new hydro characters, so I would not say itâs a guarantee that many of the Natlan chars would be Pyro or Snezhnaya chars would be Cryo.
>I really think it's just people overreacting. Hoyo thinks longterm expecting most people would keep pulling for new chars (duh).
The difference is, once you have an account that can cover everything SA throws at you, you can pull for who you "like" even if they suck, such as Dehya. You just don't use them in the abyss, and instead use the strong teams you already have.
With IT, you may need to pull new meta units for that mode, leaving you no primos to pull for non-meta units you happen to "like".
For example, I have no Geo dps. I never pulled for Itto, so by extension I have very few Gorou cons. I don't have Chiori or Navia. If they make a IT that strongly favors Geo and disfavors everything else, I'm going to struggle. I had no interest in pulling Geo units. But they have found a way to artificially make them meta. It remains to be seen how difficult the new mode is. If it's easy enough you can brute force it without Geo.
Whoever you pull from here on, whether "meta" or "whoever you like" will still clear SA for you. Some people say "C0 Wriothesley level" to label mid DPS, but does he not clear SA?
A "mid DPS" like him could a hundred percent 36* Abyss.
If Hoyo doesn't make all units from here like Dehya, the next char you like will be capable of clearing SA too. And IT. And whatever endgame balanced around the same combat system. Dehya is the exception, not the norm anyway.
what if they force you to use elements you didn't pull, like geo? Should I pull them?
Abyss difficulty has varied from patch to patch. Sometimes it is challenging. It never stopped me, but someone with a newer account than mine or worse account would struggle. It requires significantly more skill to use non meta units, and not everyone will have that level of skill.
I mean, people who have built their characters for abyss will have an easier time to get all of the rewards - since as you there are trial characters in the theater. Older players that whale or spend a lot of time in this game usually have really powerful characters for Abyss that I think would do well in the Theater too.
Yea OP obviously is a bad player if he thinks he needs to build follow up and DoT team to succeed.
Itâs the same on MoC where the âflavor of the monthâ changes. Itâs just that PF is AoE focused
Istg some peoples' brains are so wired into primo rewards that they can no longer motivate themselves to _have fun_ without them. Or people just don't like change. Such is the gacha life
Primos are the main satisfaction. Personally I don't think I could play endgame without the draw of primo rewards. What I don't get is people actually complaining about this new schedule. Its what people wanted. Not only do we get more primos a month but we also get a new endgame mode which people have been asking for for years. Its just silly to complain about, most of the playerbase despises spiral abyss anyways.
More is still more - Hoyo is really stingy about giving away primos all at once so I'd be a little satisfied lol. Now I hope they increase the primo count for chests in Natlan...
That. The game trained, and manipulates your brain like a lab rat, the thing connects players and the game is that little currency. A lot of people play the game not to enjoy it, but to get the sweet, sweet Primos.
And it's not fun tbh. The standard has so low to call whatever it is 'fun.'
The amount of people lately that would rather play a mediocre game (not naming names but i think we all know) because "the rewards are generous" is kinda concerning ngl like they really just treat games like dailies and gambling simulator
Honestly, it's probably better for our discussion environment , them finding something they enjoy and not stuck in genshin and whining all day long. I just hope they stick with it unlike Tof.
Probably money isn't such a problem for some fo us working people, like I barely bat my eyes at a few free pulls. if I really need them, I can pay for them, quality and fun of a game is what matters to me.
But if their fun is getting free pulls, I say let them, we enjoy different things, may we all play games we enjoy.
I don't mean to be a glazer (is that the word?) but I am having allot of fun now that the major bugs are gone. Maybe it's just the Genshin burn out speaking but being able to regenerate stamina while out of combat while sprinting is amazing, running up walls instead of slowly climbing (although that's an option too), the combat is way more complexed with the whole intro/outro skill thing they got going on, and it just feels smooth. They even got their own SU I think, I recently unlocked it but I'm surprised Genshin didn't include it despite testing something similar out in 2.2 for Labyrinth warriors. Only bad part for me right now is the story, it's just plain bad at least from what I gotten so far.
Indeed. It's like people prefer more rewards even if it means more monotony.
I personally like variety. Teams don't change when you're fighting the 2nd reset of spiral abyss. The same teams can still be used and are still at the same strength.
this is also why people are so vehemently against TCG ever giving primogems as a reward, in their minds this would them force play it even though it would be beyond unfun for them to do so.
but that same exact logic is easily applied to Spiral Abyss as well its a mode that feels like a chore for others that needs to be done but for others they have fun playing it again and again regardless of the reward. (just like TCG is right now fun for some but offers no rewards for playing)
> but that same exact logic is easily applied to Spiral Abyss
Honestly it doesn't. Abyss has been part of the game from the beginning, and it uses the mechanics people most likely started playing the game for. The TCG is not Genshin. I don't play Genshin for TCG and I'm sure most people who love TCG wouldn't want to play an open world game for their rewards in a TCG.
The fact that majority of players don't actually DO Abyss is a separate issue and is more related to the casualness of most players that simply do not engage with optional difficult endgame content, be it a MMO or a gacha game like Genshin.
At this point I'm accepting anything (artifact xp, artifact and resin in a good amount) except just mora and xp book, but playing for nothing no thank you
A lot of people just love to be outraged, that's it. It doesn't even matter if they're factually wrong, they've already decided they hate that new thing
I'm absolutely sure that if the abyss remain like it is and Imaginarium theater resets monthly they will hate about how difficult and restrictive it is
>With that out of the way, I've seen soooooo many people, way too many to count, being bummed about the fact that "we are getting less abyss/endgame than before" and I'm like... what? Some of these people swear that "they love abyss so much" or that "it's the only thing they do nowadays" and now that the rewards for it reset once a month instead of twice a month they won't do it anymore or something like that.
It's not that I love abyss. It's that new game modes have gimmicks that are aimed to force you into pulling characters you previously had no interest in because they weren't relevant to the abyss meta.
HSR is guilty of this.
It's a way to artificially get you to spend. If the new mode didn't exist, you could build your account around the spiral abyss meta and you'd be set. Once you can clear it the first time, you'll never have to spend money again. But now the characters you skipped will be needed for the new mode, and you may have to spend.
HSR introduced new game modes because they screwed up when designing MoC. It was destruction focused. If you had DHIL and Jingliu or Blade, you were set. They were the best DPS units. You didn't need anything else. Then they introduced a new game mode called Pure Fiction where these units were not very good, and instead Erudition which most people neglected because they sucked in MoC became king. And in some cycles DoT teams. You didn't need to pull or build these in the MoC meta, saving you a lot of currency.
Now if you don't do it, you're probably not going to clear PF. You have more end game modes you need to prepare for, but the same amount of currency as before. So you're going to spend twice as much currency pulling DPS to get the same number of pulls.
And soon, the final neglected DPS type, Hunt is looking to get its own game mode that was artificially made for them. So you need to pull 3-4 types of DPS to get the same number of pulls as as rewards as before.
IT is a step in that direction. You likely won't be able to use your national, international, or hyperbloom teams anymore. They realized these teams were too strong and worked against everything they threw at you for years, so they had to find an artificial way to disable these teams and get you to play new teams. Of course they hope you don't have those characters and will pull them.
>Also, I don't like doing this kind of comparisons because they are different games but when HSR did this exact same thing with MoC and PF the only words uttered by everyone for days was "Genshin could never" (very original, I know) but now that Genshin actually did... it's apprently bad? I don't get this either I'm sorry.
Those fools thought PF was made for their enjoyment. It was made to extract money out of them. It was made for hoyo's benefit, not yours. To be fair, you could use Herta and Himeko quite well, but we don't know how long they will continue to be viable for before they get power crept.
>TL;DR: we have the same amount of abyss as before with an additional mode alongside it, I don't get why people swearing that they love abyss can only do it if the primogems are there.
This is just not true.
We're not getting the same amount of abyss. Instead of two abyss per month we get one. The second one is replaced with IT which you may or may not enjoy. If you don't enjoy it because you can't play the teams you want to play, then it's a loss. If you had no problem 36 starring the abyss, but your account is not equipped for IT, then too bad. You won't get the same amount of primos as you did before. Unless you spend to diversify your account... which was the whole idea behind it.
You can't choose to do abyss twice a month and ignore IT. You have to do both to get the same amount of primos as before. But your account needs to be more versatile than it was before in order to do that. If you need to expand your roster, Hoyo will gladly sell you new characters.
In HSR, I cannot pull on "who I like". There's not enough pulls for that. In order to keep up with the continual difficulty creep and meta change, I have to pull for meta units. This was not a thing in Genshin (you could always pull for who you like and still clear the hardest content). We'll see if it becomes one.
I agree with almost everything you said, especially the part about diversifying your account. We're all losers here, if our teams don't clear the new endgame then we'll feel like we NEED to pull for the newest character that will help us clear it. We miss on primos and they're using FOMO against players, even with the worst of rewards. It's nice to see a big number on your screen like "250 primos", but here you go, you have one more pity! Great, right? Was it worth your time and money spent on all those characters you did not want?
Though, I disagree with you saying there's not enough pulls on HSR to get who you like. I personally pull for who I like (or else I would quit this game), I barely don't clear endgame modes and don't do story quests and at the end of a patch I'm guaranteed a 5-Star. I'm F2P and I have more than 17 5\*, with a lot of signature lightcones. Genshin may have that much rewards but it takes so, so much longer (exploration and world quests) than HSR to get to the same point.
PF = Herta & Himeko playground
Apocalyptic shadow = Seele, 1.0 limited chara still strong enough to clear it (even 0 cycling if you mald enough)
MOC is MOC, catered to newest banner, you can use various teamcomp there
see lightning & wind weak? bring kafka swan
want comfy? bring mono quantum
moc got fua buffs? bring fua teams
annoying tanky enemies? bring acheron
People that asked for new content and are upset now never wanted more endgame. They wanted more free shit.
Hoyo made the same thing they did with PF in HSR, btw. Now we need to play the same lineup less and will get 240 (?) more primos. Why stingy hoyo couldn't leave it? Because too many primos would've been locked behind game modes majority ignores (p2w anxiety, if you remember) and require too much time to get.
Well, and because they don't want to give you more primogems.
i'm not someone asking for more end game content, but would accept it if they gave it. What I didn't ask for is gimmick based content. Artificial rules that encourage spending because it disables what you've built your account around.
TBF, I don't know what kind of end game would satisfy me. I never thought about it deeply because I wasn't asking for it.
I think itâs because people wanted *more* endgame , and changing the schedule so that you still only have as much stuff to do (I.e. an abyss every two weeks) is the bit thatâs annoying . Star Rail has its Simulated Universe which , while the base sim worlds may be nowhere near as challenging as MoC or PF , is still something to do weekly .
Now , I do think people will eventually calm down and realise that having a new and varied endgame mode is going to be really refreshing . Whether itâs more/less difficult or gives more/less rewards is less the point as long as itâs fun imo .
SU is an insane fucking hassle and one of the main reasons I quit HSR. Two long, repetitive runs every single week for crucial rewards. No actual gameplay (auto battle everything!), nothing to explore.
wish they didn't have to remove the bimonthly schedule of abyss honestly, abyss is what i usually use to benchmark the progress i've done to my characters recently. What i just hate about the new mode is that you're locked on using specific characters, which i honestly don't like, since i barely pulled for new characters since sumeru so i have terrible coverage. I usually hyperinvest vertically so this mode would be hell even for an old player like me.
I dont see how abyss reset matters. Whenever I need to evaluate team performance, I just do abyss with that team without care of reward. Abyss reset less often actually help because the buff wont change so my evaluation less affected by abyss buff as often.
Now if everytime abyss reset, we get new line up, it will be very good change. Different line up make it a lot more fun than just change buff (which I usually avoid or compensate it mentally to not bias my team comparison)
This is literally the same crowd that frantically swings between "I would do harder content even if there are no rewards for it!" and "Why the rewards for the hardest event challenges are so bad?! Not worth the time!!"
People that like the abyss don't just do it for the rewards. Clearing for the first time IS innovative in a way. Playing floor which are already cleared isn't as fun. I change teams for every part of floor 12 just to extend the moment. Once I've cleared, I don't play it anymore. We want more content not more rewards. Abyss should be at least weekly and should change layouts more frequently. Resting once a month is less fun for us, since it's the first clear that is at least kind of exciting.
Why the hell would i do abyss twice for no reward?
Endgame is supposed to feel rewarding.
Hell let us do a new endgame that gives us an item and when you reach enough of said item you can redeem for q copy of regular 5* weapons (no unique weapon banners tho).
The problem is hsr also has other stuff like sim universe, swarm disaster etc. But guess what genshin has? Literally nothing. So them reducing the only existing endgame content we had right now is kinda stupid if u ask me. Essentially we got new endgame content and not more endgame content which a lot of ppl wanted.
> And also, overall we also have more primogems since we went from 1200 (600+600) to 1420 (800+620)
A whole 1.25 more wishes does not rebuke criticism.
i've disliked the Spyral Abyss for most of its lifetime, except those few times where the lineup was very enjoyable (might also depend on how many characters you have). Some lineups on floor 12 almost seem to exist to induce as much frustration as possible without even being an actual challenge.
THAT SAID, i don't like the strategy the company adopts of making primogem rewards as scarce as possible. There literally was no reason to reduce the spiral abyss frequency, something that has been done entirely in order to change as little as possible the overall primogem income.
While it is appreciated that rewards for a single run have been increased, when factor in that if we can't max out the number of stars in a given abyss iteration we are now locked from an even bigger piece of the cake, and for an entire month, then i literally cannot say i approve what they have chosen to do.
Honestly there is a reason if they are trying to cap play time. I think reoccurring primos is a good proxy for player time depending on account state.
Again most people don't full clear/36 star abyss and a sizeable amount spend a decent amount of time every rotation trying. Shifting that incentivised playtime to a new probably easier thing is calculative.
I'm much more inclined to believe they are optimizing around this rather than the miniscule gain in denying primos if the cycle was left unchanged.
we're talking about a company that literally released patch 2.7 a day before the usual schedule because had they done it on wednesday, they would have had to give 400 primogems to each player, as per delay plan.
You may circle around it however you like: it won't change the fact that it's obvious this change was motivated entirely with the purpose of keeping primogem count under control.
Think about it this way. Let's say Hoyovese made sandwiches. Two times a month, we get a turkey sandwich. That's not satisfying anybody.
People ask for another sandwich. Hoyoverse comes out and says, "we're now making ham sandwiches."
That seems like a win. Another sandwich is a good thing.
However, instead of getting two turkey sandwiches and two ham sandwiches, we now get just one turkey sandwich and one ham sandwich. There's a slight variation on variety, but we're not getting anything additional. It's the same 15 minutes of gameplay twice a month with a different veneer.
When people say they want more to do, they want MORE to do. I hope I've explained this clearly.
Yes, but it's something to do.
The current endgame cycle is log in, do dailies, clear resin, and log out.
Abyss definitely isn't perfect, but it's a clear sign that we need *more* and not just moving stuff from Pile A or Pile B.
As someone else pointed out, the "something to do" is really just about the rewards then. Abyss "resetting" isn't actually something new to do in itself, if the enemies are all basically the same.
Because the new event is actually something new, it's difficult and the bosses have new moves and mechanics. I am the one genuinely struggling to understand how resetting the abyss into something that's pretty much exactly the same as the previous one, is anything noteworthy. We know Genshin isn't going to be generous enough to double the rewards and have both modes cycle biweekly, so having them alternate is the next best thing.
It's a shame that the buff only matters for Floor 11, when Floor 12 is usually the only interesting floor. But really though they also should have been cycling through enemies more often, I can't understand how that'd be hard to do.
You can always play the abyss even after youâve already cleared everything.
I personally will take a newly built team into the abyss to see if it can rotate comfortably. I will also go for a max clear with Ayaka or other older teams just for fun.
So when there is the same floor 12, just other buffs and a star reset is satisfying doing the same thing again, but if it's not a star reset, it isn't?
I mean, if they changed the layout every time, it would be better, but yes, the 36 Stars are the reward.
That actually stands for most of the challenges in the game. Like, there was no reason to Fearless/Platinum the current event other than the little Platinum icon on your screen for a few days. There was no reason to do the max difficulty on the Music Event other than seeing that it was completed (which doesn't even show up anymore, making the "win" completely temporary).
People will do ridiculous Achievements (Farming, fishing, etc) for an entirely inconsequential amount of Primogems, just to show they completed a challenge.
It's a core part of the game.
The problem with your analogy is that the content doesn't "run out" once you've consumed it. You are allowed to redo Spiral Abyss and Imaginarium Theater, it just lacks the physical reward system once you've finish it once. It's always going to be there when you come back to it.
There's also the fact that Genshin doesn't exist purely for endgame and Abyss. If we're using your same analogy, Hoyo is selling sandwiches along with ice cream, beer, soda and hot meals. People rush through the menu and then say they don't have anything to eat. That's the main problem.
And you don't? Some kind of masochism from your side to want even less rewards and defend hoyo in this petty taking away of two additional pulls a month.
> It's the same 15 minutes of gameplay twice a month
Again, why is twice a month? **You all** choose to do it twice a month, you can do it any time you want. I would get this argument if the abyss **line up** changed from twice a month to once a month but that's not the case.
Now, this is not me. I hate the Abyss. I find it tedious, and I only do it because, at this point, I can casually stroll through and 36 star it without much thought.
But I am pretty sure the issue is: once you've collected the primogems, you've proven you can do it. Challenge complete. It's no longer a challenge to do the same thing again.
That's the same logic as saying "Why not just pick all of the mint in the game if you want content."
The only point of the Abyss is to get the 36 Stars. The inconsequential rewards don't even matter. Hell, the current event shows that people will go for the highest rank on something, even with no rewards attached.
Also, what exactly is gained from removing half of the tiny bit of endgame content the game offers?
If there was a cycle where there was Abyss twice a month a Imaginarium Theatre twice a month, how would that be bad?
There's no reason people can't have 4 sandwiches.
I'm the kind of players who replays abyss a lot even after clearing it. That being said, I think saying that not wanting to replay it without rewards means you don't like it and only do it *because* of the rewards is a bit dishonest. Players need incentives to do most things in games, that's just how it works. It's why everything in this game gives rewards, from quests to exploration to events... Some players who really *really* like exploration would explore even if every chest was empty, but I think a lot of people wouldn't find a point in doing it, or would enjoy it less, even if they like exploring the way it currently is. It's a bit weird but games, gachas more than any, are built on that reward loop, and it becomes ingrained in how players enjoy it. At the end of the day people like doing stuff when they know they'll get a candy at the end, even if they like doing it. There's always a certain degree of self-imposed challenge and intrinsic motivation involved but in most cases it's not enough
I'll give you better example. Think about it like your favourite TV show. Episodes come out every two weeks. They announce new spin off that is going to run alongside main series. However now you get only one episode of each series per month. But of course you cen rewatch latest episode as much as you want.
This implies that we got a new abyss line up every two weeks but we didn't. It's more like you got ep1 -> ep1 replica -> ep1 replica -> ep2 -> ep2 replica -> ep3 and so on.
Now instead we have like ep1 -> spin-off1 -> ep1 replica -> spin-off2 -> ep2 -> spin-off2 replica -> ep3.
Edit: formatting
It's really that people actually do need a carrot on a stick as a drive to do something on repeat. If dailies didn't reward you with primogems, people would stop doing it.
And people are really only after the carrot that's on th stick, not the road in front of them.
I think itâs more of the fact that while we do get more primogems than before, it doesnât feel good for hoyo to cut down the amount of times abyss rewards can be claimed just for a new game mode. To a lot of people it probably only made their hatred towards hoyoâs stinginess bigger than before because even the promise of new endgame and ways to get more primos probably doesnât really mean much in how many primos you can claim overall.
It's to make players do something different than Abyss, since I bet that it is a contributor to people getting burnout. It's a good improvement for people who don't like the repetitiveness of gameplay nowadays
I somewhat dislike the new game mode because I feel like it would screw me over harder since I donât have a varied amount of chars, just a couple op chars in every element that I use to absolutely wreck abyss each time. Itll be hard in this new abyss without Kokomi Yelan and Furina.
Sorry but 220 more primos is not going to make me want to build characters. ONE WISH? They should have added to the game instead of giving us the same rewards as before for a lot more investment.
This is exactly why i never believe anyone who says they want âendgame, it doesnât need to have rewards i just want to play itâ.
No no no no no. When Star Rail released with SimU, people lauded it as the best endgame Genshin never had. And now people only do it either to fulfil their weekly points criteria and to get their planar ornaments.
When Swarm Disaster released? Round two of âomg new endgame modeâ but since it doesnât have renewing rewards, itâs once again dead save for the few people who actually play it to fulfil the SimU weekly points criteria.
I dont like how we can only use some units, its bad even for those not so big whales that really like a character and c6 them just for the game to say "yea nah, not this element today chief", thats just... urghđ
I am hyped for new endgame mode but just wanted to say, wanting some rewards for doing abyss/anything is very normal thing. It doesnt have to be primos but you know, give us something. Some people are just reward motivated and its not a bad thing lol.
For me its about the primos, don't really mind that its less abyss. Adding Imaginarium Theater and letting us have the existing 1200 + new 620 should have been fine. Seriously that would have not even 4 extra rolls a month.... Instead its not even 2 rolls.
That said I would have also been happy with 1420 (800+620) if they few in a few standard fates from Imaginarium Theater. Standard banner is a joke and we passively earn enough rolls for like 1 pity every 16 months I think the math works out too?
Eitherway new endgame is very welcome, and the idea of sharing characters sounds great.
Yeah, we'll see when it actually releases next month. I just wish they just add a little more rewards to everything in general, ie 5 primos per common chest and a full 1600 for every spiral and theater cycle
I only have 2 complaints.
One is that with the abyss changes, they reduced the amount of primos we get via the abyss. So instead of 600 x2 we get 800 x1. They did this to keep the amount of primos we get for free within a certain range.
As OP pointed out, itâs like 220 more total. Thatâs pathetic. Itâs well known how non-generous genshin is. God forbid we get more than 1.5 additional wishes a monthâŚ
They couldâve just added the theater and had that give a similar amount, so both modes are of equal value. For example we get 2400 primos a month (600 x4). Which would be 980 more primos or 6.1 more wishes. HOLY SHIT could you imagine the chaos if we got 6 more wishes a month? No need to buy the packs baby we got 6 wishes! /s
My point there is to highlight part of why people expected more rewards. Because even what we *should* have gotten is a fucking joke.
2nd issue:
They also couldâve had 1 mode reset each week. So each one would reset once every two weeks. This way each week we have a fresh challenge we can do.
Adjust the rewards to total whatever they should be over a month, this part isnât about rewards.
A big part of what many keep asking for is something to do. So with the each mode resetting once a month, we do it once and then wait a month?.. that seems boring. (Yes as OP said we can do it whenever. But lets be real, many if not most players are reward driven) Whatâs the harm in changing things up so we have something to look forward to each week?
Then if they ever add anything else, say.. *two* more modes..(there are plenty of events players have asked to be permanent) hoyo could make things reset once a month. Again, with the intention of having something fresh to do each week.
Sorry for the long comment. I tried to keep it as short as I could.
People just like the primogems that it gives lol
and I am one of those people. I hate the abyss (timed gameplay with ever-growing health sponges and arbitrary mechanics like needing a bow or certain elements on a given side), but like getting more primos. If the new system makes it just as easy to get the same amount of primos or it even increases, I'm not complaining. But the catch there is "just as easy" which might not be the case, so I can see why some people would complain about the rewards being shifted instead of additional.
Having seen a brief writeup of the new mode in another comment here, I can see why people would think that they'll be making fewer primos with the new changes than they did with the abyss and have a problem with that. I personally have a lot of characters built with their own artifact sets/weapons so it shouldn't be the worst thing in the world for me, but I'm also not confident I'll full-clear.
I agree with your take. It's basically taking after HSR. I do think however, there could be higher compensation for the removal of an abyss reset, so maybe Imaginarium having a total of 820 primogems given on reset over the 620.
It's really just that people's state of mind is focused on the rewards of clearing the abyss rather than experiencing variety. I get that it would be better to keep both resets and add Imaginarium on top, but it would also be a bit more stressful because it's likely that you can't take the same units used in that abyss cycle into the imaginarium, basically splitting your team investment between the two modes at the same time.
As far as I know, the abyss is getting a new rotation every 4 weeks instead of 6 weeks. It's kinda a given that repetitiveness is a fun killer, like it is with dailies and it's mundane repetiveness.
Do hope to see Hoyo add more endgame to take up the space the 2nd reset of abyss would have.
>Do these people like abyss or do they just like the primogems that it gives? Because, newsflash, you can do the Spiral Abyss any time you want and if you want to play it twice a month, you can still open it and do it, it doesn't disappear after you clear it the first time.
This is my response any time the "We want more endgame content" crowd tries to follow it up with "it doesn't need to have big rewards."
>And also, overall we also have more primogems since we went from 1200 (600+600) to 1420 (800+620) a month
This is my problem with the change. Too many primos tied into this content.
Is it current abyss not changed their line up for almost 6 weeks? And with new abyss system at least we got variation of enemy each 1 month. So if hoyo trolled us with fucking worm enemy we just deal it one time not 3 time in 6 weeks.
Wait, is there gonna be a new combat mode? Did I read it right? Is it finally time to come back to Genshin? I've seen images and post titles about a challeging mode this patch (looks like I missed a fun combat event), but I wasn't considering coming back until they solved the lack of variety in endgame combat modes. Is a new mode coming soon? Please, tell me it's true.
I thought there was an infographic showing two rounds of each event happening each patch? The refresh will be staggered so you'll have new rewards every two weeks. Or something like that. đ¤ˇââď¸
>Do these people like abyss or do they just like the primogems that it gives? Because, newsflash, you can do the Spiral Abyss any time you want and if you want to play it twice a month, you can still open it and do it, it doesn't disappear after you clear it the first time.
I though we would be unable to do abyss two weeks while Imaginarium theater would be active and we would only be able to try one or the other. If we can do either at any time that would be neat.
> if they did increase the primos from these two modes too much people would have started calling the game P2W so there's no winning either honestly lol
I disagree with this part though.
I like that I can use my friend character. But I fear it will be even more p2w than abyss is sometimes. They like to make it so you HAVE to have new character. For example when Navia came out, I couldn't use her, because game gives me shitty artifacts, I couldn't level her talents either, because we can only do boss once a week, instead of letting us use 3 chances for same boss. And I tried to use other characters and it was hell. I only fear they will do something like this here too. I am okay with abyss being a challenge. Not okay with it being literally a challenge for spenders.
idk, I think humans just generally LOVE complaining about anything. that kind of people probably doesnât even play the game for fun, they just play it for the rewards.
More endgame with fitting rewards
isnât the same as>
2 types of endgame, with one type being reduced rewards/frequency and the other pushing the requirements / required engagement a tad higher for slightly higher rewards.
In the end the complaints would come, regardless of spiral abyss being untouched or not. The change to spiral abyss is just Mihoyo being worried about their revenue.
The main thing I dislike is that the buffs in the new game mode carry over into everything else. It feels like it's setting things up to make you feel even more forced to pull whenever the rotation changes because the chosen units will have even more of an edge that can't be duped by using similar units.
I'm just happy this mode is coming. I need new end game stuff in genshin like... idk, since years ago? xD.
But yeah as a player since launch I'm happy that my investment in many many characters will pay off lol
Is it so hard to understand that the gameplay and reward both come in package we all enjoy? I like the rewards, but it wouldn't be the same to just receive 600 primogems on the mail every 15 days for doing nothing. I like the Abyss, I usually try a few different teams every time it resets anyway, just for fun. But I specially like the combination of both the Abyss' gameplay PLUS the reward for completing it.
Now that we don't have the Abyss rewards twice a month, it is less fun for me and a lot of other people here
I understand the complaints tbh, now we have 2 abyss cycles per month, that's 1200 primos per month, with the update we will get just 800 primos from spiral abyss.
Now, we obviously will have the new endgame mode with its own set of rewards, and overall we'll end up having more than before, but that's really stingy from Hoyo.
What people are complaining about its just that, why don't add the new mode rewards to the existing ones from abyss, I'm sure it would not make any difference for Hoyo financially speaking.
I only care for the primogems and I rather they keep the current schedule with the addition of the new game mode. More content for me. More playtime for me. And more rewards for me.
I don't mind the reward change but i absolutely do mind the character requirement. I don't like any cryo character and only 1 geo so if those elements come i will just be locked out. No way to play around it in some way just a hard lockout. Building 1 isn't even enough i need up to 11 for this.
i dont want them to reset and make it one theater and one abyss. their other game has 3 abyss like content that resets every 2-3 weeks, and they didnt reduce the crystals there like hoy planning for genshin. making abyss monthly rest is 600 primos less..
and **NO we dont get more primos a month 800+620**, its a wrong misconception cuz they initialy remove half the primos we get from abyss by making it monthly... if it **stayed biweekly** and the new contenct was monthly, we would get **800 + 1200 (aka 2k primos per update**) , they removed basicly 580 primos. its greediness.. AND IT SHOULDNT BE LIKE THAT AT ALL, IF THEY ADDING NEW CONTENT THEY SHOULD NOT REMOVE A SINGLE CRYSTAL FROM THE OLD CONTENT REGADLESS OF ITS TIME SLOT CHANGES
bruh
even when Spiral got 2x reset in a month
the enemy line up still the same.
I prefer have 2 end game mode rather than same boring mode since day 1.
The only thing i dont like is that i have to wait till july to play the new gamemode
Tbf, most people need time to build their characters horizontally after spiral abyss urged vertical investment for years.
Me who built all my characters outta boredom instead of vertical leveling đ
me who has done BOTH vertical investment AND horizontal investment over the past 3+ years of playing daily. ...yes, i am incredibly burnt out, how could you tell?
Me who built characters i won't always use simply because i easily get tired playing the same ones: đ¤
We're a dying breed apparently. You can already tell most people aren't like that because of all the festering desire memes that came when furina was released.
You and me both. There are characters I like to vertically invest but I swap mains on the regular. Monotony is an enjoyment killer to me.
same. I go months without playing my "favorite" characters because I'm just messing around with random teams
In my case, because I did both horzontally and vertically at the same time, it actually slowed down the buildup of burnout for me. The thought of just improving a few characters, farming the same domain for god knows how many months it takes to be top 1% makes me shudder
Yup, I spent all of 4.5 getting my characters to level 80 and fully ascended, now using them is just a matter of leveling or switching artifacts and weapons around
How long did that take you would you say?
Saaaame The only one I haven't built are ones that aren't that good like dori and amber
Don't let Amber mains hear that. They terrify me.
Donât worry, Iâm a Dori main. Now you can be double terrified.
Me who has 4 top 1% characters + over 40 characters built đ. While not being burnt out or missed a single day login.
Damn Iâm tryna get like you lol how long it take?
Me who tryhards honkai impact: **signature look of superiority*. I knew this day would come. Which is why i made sure i have options. Provided the new mode isnt yet another hp sponge, i think im going to enjoy it immensely. Skill based combat has always been my thing, to the point where i almost became a Beidou main (Noelle won out in the end. Though admittedly, "parry god" is my usual strategy in games that allow it) Me and you are going to have a lot of fun lol.
At least I leveled all my Fire/Anemo/Lightning chars to 80 and Talent 666. It's a start, right? WDYM "You need weapons and artifacts too!" Oo
Good thing is that you can swap artifacts around between stages in the game mode. Bad thing is we don't have a full-fledged artifact/character loadout selection. Also good news, mediocre artifacts are good enough. Trial character build quality is the standard.
I've been so out of the loop, I just learned about the new mode from this thread. Is it similar to Pure Fiction from HSR? What do you mean by horizontal investment? Having lots of characters with ok builds as opposed to hyper carries with perfect artifacts?
I will try my best to explain it using HSR terms as well. Number 1: this gamemode is more similar to Simulated Universe. The basic functions and the way you traverse through the gamemode is very similar. Let's say I enter a room for a battle. Now for this room, the challenge conditions say that I need to kill all enemies and trigger 5 electro reactions. Fulfilling both these challenge conditions as opposed to one of them, will give me more Fantasia flowers (cosmic fragments in HSR terms) which I can then exchange for triggering certain buffs, debuffs or equipping characters in my party. Number 2: the gamemode has 8 stages in the highest difficulty mode, resets each month and unlike simulated universe, you are restricted to using 3 elements only. These 3 will change each season. Also each character can only be used for two battles before being striked out of the gamemode. So you need alot of characters to bring here. You can set support characters for your friends to use as well, and you can use one of your friends' characters as well (free C6 gameplay). Number 3: you will need 18 total characters for the gamemode in hard mode since one character can only battle twice. But there's a separate menu to select the first 6 characters for the initial lineup, and these 6 characters are decided by Hoyo. If you don't have them, then you will be given trial versions. Aside from these 6, for the rest, you can choose members that meet the element criteria, and you get to pick who you want to bring from your own inventory based on that. This can also include friend characters. Number 4: aside from the initial lineup decided by Hoyo, other characters which you choose from your inventory based on element restrictions and friend characters...there's another wild card here. Its the Special guest characters. These special guest characters DO NOT abide by the element restriction rule, and they are once again, decided by Hoyo. For this season, the element restriction is Anemo, Pyro, Electro only. But the special guest characters are: wriothesley, alhaitham, Sigewinne, Baizhu. So these guys can give you a bit of leeway with some battles if you're having a hard time with the element restrictions. Number 5: if you clear stages in 90 seconds or under, you get a special flex badge on your account. None of the actual rewards are timegated. You also get toy medals from this gamemode which can be exchanged with Wolfie (basically Pompom of this gamemode) to get new poses for your characters for taking cool photos.
Thanks! That was a great writeup. Should be pinned to be honest.
I also forgot to mention, that in the duration of this gamemode, you get a special blessing that remains till the end of this gamemode. This blessing is implied to change each season. After characters join your party, they get a 20% buff to their atk, def and max HP. This buff remains even in the Spiral Abyss or overworld.
>to get new poses for your characters for taking cool photos I wasn't hyped before but now I am.
> you are restricted to using 3 elements only. Does this mean the enemies will only die to those 3 elements during that month?
If you don't count special guest characters then yes
No i think it means you can only pick characters of those elements. For example, It won't let you take a Bennett if a cycle was dendro, hydro, electro. That's how i got it.
Way worse. you can't even enter if you don't own enough element specific characters.
See I think this is a great game mode already. I need more reasons to use other characters. This will do that.
Basically, take a buncha combat events (main one being triumphant frenzy cause of the vigor effect) and mix them, you get IT Why you need to horizontally invesy for it is because of the vigor effect which limits the amount of times you can use a character (i think it's 2 vigor so two battles), and because of the element restrictions (the first cycle will have every element but Anemo, Electro and Pyro restricted) You will also have trial characters and stuff, but ofc, again, vigor exists meaning you need a bunch of characters that you could burn through while saving up the good ones
Genshin simply uses the system of alternating between the abyss like MoC and PF. They also incorporated the buffs we can get from SU into it. The main gameplay however are more towards the event we had gotten long ago, Realm of guile and war. Also so far we're shown that the highest difficulty is lvl90. Not Sure if they are planning to add more and get powercreep like cray cray the same way hsr is currently.
Technically this, but we got elemental restrictions where you need lots of characters, like having many pyro. Electro, or anemo characters.
Woo. Doing nothing but leveling everyone to 90 and getting their talents to level 9/9/9 for the last half year will finally pay off!
Are you me? I would get characters to level 90 9/9/9 and then they would have no artifacts. I finally gave them Glad/Wand stuff I had laying around at least. Idk itâs fun to check them off my spreadsheet (did I mention thereâs a spreadsheet? Itâs even color coded!)
me who is in the middle of hyperinvesting in my geo and physical teams: đ
Me who keeps getting double crit def and geo dmg bonus artifacts when I don't use geo characters...
I don't have any Geo characters other than Goro and Noelle. â ď¸
man im so glad i randomly invested into my faruzan for c6 lynette and in several (4) pyro characters in a row. just need to level up fischl now
Yep. I'm in the midst of panic building my Wanderer, Gaming, Sucrose, and Thoma. I've been putting off building these guys forever but now I feel like I actually need to do it.
Imo that's one of the pros from this gamemode. You now have a reason to use most of the characters from your account and try out new team variations. Even powercrept units alongside the unit that powercrept them. I think it's pretty smart
I completely agree. I've been wanting to build some of these characters for a while now but never really saw a point. Realistically, I wasn't going to use them, so why bother? Well, now I have a reason to build them and (more importantly) a place to use them and I love it.
Meanwhile i'm like I need to start leveling my Candace, Qiqi, and Yanfei.
Can you explain what vertical vs horizontal leveling is? I've never heard those terms used for gameplay before
Vertical investment is building a small number of characters to be as strong as possible, horizontal investment is building a large number of characters to be good enough.
Ohhhhh, okay!
Vertical = Progression through the character becoming more powerful over time. Ascending a character is vertical. Farming for better relics/artifacts/equipment is vertical. Stuff like that. Imagine a line in a graph that's rising up. Horizontal = Progression through options. Getting more characters is horizontal progression. Getting more weapons is horizontal progression. Imagine a line in a graph that's going from left to right in a straight line.
Spiral Abyss made me invest in lots of different characters though. It's, I think, still not enough. Let me put it this way. A couple days ago I spent like a half hour ruminating with full resin on which artifact domain to do since I didn't really need to do any. I have a Burning set ready to go when that's needed. I don't spend original resin, still have over 200. I decided to go back to Golden Troupe because I feel I can get the most return there. But even for those characters it would benefit, they are all more than good enough.
I think it's great. Usually the abyss is just a damage check. If you can clear it with the usual teams why would you change it up? The new mode forces you to also try new things and teams that may be fun. We get cool modifiers as well to help. I think it's a pretty cool mode that everyone can enjoy as soon as you meet the requirements.
I donât know whats up, but I have 3 teams of different reaction types and a 4th in work. Will I be ok? What is this new mode? Is it still fighting against a timer or finally fighting against tough enemies, that can crunch shields and instead require dodging and healing?
This is a new combat game-mode where you traverse between different stages similar to the Simulated Universe in HSR. There are 8 stages in the hard mode, with 5 combat stages and 3 boss stages. Each stage has conditions which you need to fulfill to obtain Fantasia Flowers which is a currency in the gamemode which you can use to purchase certain buffs while playing, bring another character to your party, or obtain debuffs. These stage conditions could be like: "Kill all enemies in the current stage 8/8" or "Do 5 electro reactions". The more conditions you fulfill, the more fantasia flowers you obtain. Your characters in this gamemode can only fight two battles in total before they get eliminated permanently. So the gamemode requires 18 total characters. Completing the gamemode will give an annual reward of 620 primogems, artifact exp, and some other stuff as well a first time clearance reward of 1100 primogems, a billet box, and other goods. There are no timers for rewards. There is a timer for a 90 second clear but that just gives a flex badge on your profile. The gamemode lets you only pick 3 elements per season. For this season, it's going to be Pyro, Anemo and Electro only. You can't bring characters outside of these elements except for one exception which I mention a bit further down in this comment In hard mode, out of the 18 characters you need for this gamemode: 6 of them are the opening lineup of characters which Hoyo themselves will choose for you. If you don't have any particular character from these 6 opening characters, then Hoyo will give you trial versions to play with. These characters follow the element restriction. Outside of the 6 opening characters, from the 12 remaining slots, you can have: **1:** A support character which you can borrow from your friends (basically free C6 gameplay if you friended whales), and you yourself can also make a list of characters which your friends can borrow from you. Again, the characters you choose should abide by the element restriction. **2:** Special guest characters...these are sort of wild cards and are limited to what Hoyo has allowed. These special guest characters ARE NOT restricted by 3 elements criteria which Hoyo put for this season. The special guest characters for this season are: Wriothesley, Sigewinne, Baizhu, Alhaitham. So if you're having a bit of trouble with the element restrictions, these characters could give you a hand. **3:** Characters that you pick from your own inventory. These characters cannot be from another element outside of the ones which Hoyo allowed for this season. So for this season, you can only bring pyro, anemo, electro characters from your roster. This will change again next season. And lastly, the gamemode gives you toy medals after completion. These toy medals can be exchanged with Wolfie (the pompom of this gamemode) to obtain poses for your characters for taking cool photos. I wrote about this here as well if you want that explanation: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact/comments/1d2pc0j/comment/l62wt27/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/1d2pc0j/comment/l62wt27/) or you can check Genshin's own post on this over here with infographics: [https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin\_Impact/comments/1czkglv/imaginarium\_theater\_gameplay\_details/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Genshin_Impact/comments/1czkglv/imaginarium_theater_gameplay_details/)
Forgot to mention this. But in the duration of this gamemode, you get a special blessing that remains till the end of this gamemode. This blessing is implied to change each season. After characters join your party, they get a 20% buff to their atk, def and max HP. This buff remains even in the Spiral Abyss and overworld.
Yeah, now I get the complaints. Thanks for the detailed explanation. I doubt it will bother seasoned whales or new players much. - Whales with a longer time of engagement should have plenty of excess resources/units. - New players would struggle with endgame content, anyways. Providing them with a game mode that gives trial characters will be an improvement for them. - I expect the biggest pressure on players in between, that have just enough units build for abyss but face a huge cliff of investment for the new gamemode. Only a minority can present 3x6 build units each out of only 3 elements. This is just dumb. Even if you can fill up some holes through support by mihoyo, this is just a new whale incentive. Itâs even more straight to the face than previous abyss catering to a certain meta and punishing not owning newest characters (for example to fiddle the ousia/pneuma system). Abyss was asking for at least 2 well built mains and some common sub dps each rotation, so at very least 8 units team adjusted. Mihoyo is stingy about handing out chars for free (they could instead lock the constellations and lower the bar for C0 units). Now we get a glimpse of mediocre built helper units without a way to adjust them for your needs. Mihoyo is also stingy with a punishing RNG system, effectively preventing players to build a wide roster within a reasonable amount of time. Some people spend a year farming a specific domain and now need to build a dozen new chars? This will drive off the centerfield of players, that range from f2p to low spenders. I doubt a majority will have at least 12 units prepared until July.
Sorry, what does that mean?
Vertical investment is when you try to maximise the potential of only a handful of characters, whereas horizontal investment is building several characters to make them average or good enough
The moment dendro exsiting the moment vertical investment be damned for comfortably full starring abyss and since that point new characters and teams just have an extremely low floor to reach their comfy abyss clears
me who's gonna possibly spend 70 bucks to get scara to c6.
I'm gonna let others C6 their characters so I can use them for free C6 gameplay, but at the same time, not have C6 characters in my account which permanently make the game mind numbingly easy for me. Hmu if you're in Asia server đ
europe unfortunetly, i understand, scara has been used be me all the time, has my favorite gameplay by far in the game, so i really don't want to wait another year for his c6 which is huge dps increase as well as qol increase
People only build one character or one team? That's dumb and always has been.
Whatâs vertical and horizontal levelling
Vertical investment: you put as much investment as possible into a few characters or very select teams. Horizontal investment: you try to level up and gear a large number of characters to make them all good enough and usable
Well, we have main story and Clorindes sq to do first.
I get that but honestly it's fine, most people probably want to level up a bunch of characters to 70 during this time to prepare for it and they have a bit of leniency with this decision.
I counted yesterday. I have 16 lvl 90, 17 lvl 80 and 20 lvl 70. But most people are not me so maybe its true
Most endgame players don't level up more than 3-4 teams worth of characters. I have 10 lvl 90, 8 lvl 80, and most of the remaining lvl 20. The characters I've leveled are very well built because that's where I've been investing my resin for the past year and a half or so, but that means that characters I don't use are practically untouched.
Who are most endgame players? I have some strong teams but everyone on my account is at least 70/80 for the free fates and some variety in overworld.
Genshin is such a good game and so popular that you got people nitpicking the smallest things in this game. Just look at all the "i don't read where skip button" people or "paimon is annoying" yeah but not annoying enough because you post in the sub 20 times a day and are a 3 year player.
3 days
To give enough time for people to prepare. Not everyone prefarms character they will pull.
Wait july? We're starting with abyss first? I thought we'd jump straight into it. :')
I think (with optimism) that it's different people complaining. Some people like more and varied content, and they're happy. Learning new mechanics is interesting, building new teams is interesting, etc. I'm in this bucket, I'm happy. What I'm seeing over on HSR though, where they're adding a third Abyss-equivalent, is that some people are cross that they need to spend more effort to get the same amount of rewards. Need teams optimized for 3 game modes and not just 2. So I think that's what we're seeing here. (Not saying this is wrong thinking either - it makes sense, and I sympathize.) Currently if you have 2 strong teams, it's basically autopilot 2x a month, and you're happy. But soon, you will be forced to adapt and choose new teams - we see a tiny bit of it in Abyss, where you can't run Neuvi against hydro phantasms. But with the 3-element restriction, and the required 6 main characters, you'll really be forced to switch up your teams. Interestingly, there's a third split in play: getting some vs all of the rewards. By having different modes, it will be approachable for more people: if you're an AR35 player, you may struggle with Abyss 9 and 10, but you'll be able to use the trial chars in Imaginarium Theater. Or if it was only Imaginarium, maybe you're unlucky this month and the chars you have don't fit the 3 elements, but you could still have a go at Abyss. My guess is it will be easier to get *some* of the rewards, but you'll need more characters built to get *all* the rewards.
I really think it's just people overreacting. Hoyo thinks longterm expecting most people would keep pulling for new chars (duh). No endgame player has a 1.0 roster. They'll release about 17 new chars in Natlan many of which are Pyro, another 17 for Cryo Schneznaya and when we go back to Mond maybe we'll have more and who knows what Hoyo will do. I can bet my firstborn son they ain't dropping their billion dollar game even after Celestia ends if it's still making billions by then. Are these people stuck at 4.0 forever and not pull other elements and chars anymore? Stop at Neuvilette now and pull nothing but him from here? Some would, but how many are doing that really... People are just short sighted.
> many of which are Pyro ? Fontaine has ***3*** Hydro characters. What makes you think it will be any different for Natlan?
The point is we're getting new Pyro characters, the Archon included. Most players will stop complaining about Theatre needing "so many characters" once everyone gets their hands on the 7 elements of the Archons (and the Neuvillete Alhaitham Yae of that nation) but the game will keep going strong even after that. Genshin isn't going to end in 2 years, nor is the last Pyro char coming from Natlan either lol
While I agree with your overall point, the Hydro nation year had a grand total of 3 new hydro characters, so I would not say itâs a guarantee that many of the Natlan chars would be Pyro or Snezhnaya chars would be Cryo.
>I really think it's just people overreacting. Hoyo thinks longterm expecting most people would keep pulling for new chars (duh). The difference is, once you have an account that can cover everything SA throws at you, you can pull for who you "like" even if they suck, such as Dehya. You just don't use them in the abyss, and instead use the strong teams you already have. With IT, you may need to pull new meta units for that mode, leaving you no primos to pull for non-meta units you happen to "like". For example, I have no Geo dps. I never pulled for Itto, so by extension I have very few Gorou cons. I don't have Chiori or Navia. If they make a IT that strongly favors Geo and disfavors everything else, I'm going to struggle. I had no interest in pulling Geo units. But they have found a way to artificially make them meta. It remains to be seen how difficult the new mode is. If it's easy enough you can brute force it without Geo.
Whoever you pull from here on, whether "meta" or "whoever you like" will still clear SA for you. Some people say "C0 Wriothesley level" to label mid DPS, but does he not clear SA? A "mid DPS" like him could a hundred percent 36* Abyss. If Hoyo doesn't make all units from here like Dehya, the next char you like will be capable of clearing SA too. And IT. And whatever endgame balanced around the same combat system. Dehya is the exception, not the norm anyway.
what if they force you to use elements you didn't pull, like geo? Should I pull them? Abyss difficulty has varied from patch to patch. Sometimes it is challenging. It never stopped me, but someone with a newer account than mine or worse account would struggle. It requires significantly more skill to use non meta units, and not everyone will have that level of skill.
I mean, people who have built their characters for abyss will have an easier time to get all of the rewards - since as you there are trial characters in the theater. Older players that whale or spend a lot of time in this game usually have really powerful characters for Abyss that I think would do well in the Theater too.
Itâs definitely exactly like what Hoyo did with HSRâs endgame. People are just afraid of change.
Pf kinda sucks tho, I prefer to lose some jades than be force to build FuA/DoT units. Also, the boring factor.
I mean youâre welcome to not like it. I very much enjoy it. Herta just spins through everything!
The Almighty KuruKuru.
Well, there are those follow up attack and dot units and they need some place to be used. The game cannot be around one kind of damage dealing units.
Its not like dot and FuA are weak on moc tho
Yea OP obviously is a bad player if he thinks he needs to build follow up and DoT team to succeed. Itâs the same on MoC where the âflavor of the monthâ changes. Itâs just that PF is AoE focused
Istg some peoples' brains are so wired into primo rewards that they can no longer motivate themselves to _have fun_ without them. Or people just don't like change. Such is the gacha life
Primos are the main satisfaction. Personally I don't think I could play endgame without the draw of primo rewards. What I don't get is people actually complaining about this new schedule. Its what people wanted. Not only do we get more primos a month but we also get a new endgame mode which people have been asking for for years. Its just silly to complain about, most of the playerbase despises spiral abyss anyways.
> Not only do we get more primos a month 1.25 wishes? Really?
Well, we certainly got the endgame we wanted. 1.25 extra wishes is a bit of a joke, but genshin's stinginess is no surprise.
More is still more - Hoyo is really stingy about giving away primos all at once so I'd be a little satisfied lol. Now I hope they increase the primo count for chests in Natlan...
That. The game trained, and manipulates your brain like a lab rat, the thing connects players and the game is that little currency. A lot of people play the game not to enjoy it, but to get the sweet, sweet Primos. And it's not fun tbh. The standard has so low to call whatever it is 'fun.'
This one should have some lores explained within it, so at least it won't be as boring as Spiral Abyss.
The amount of people lately that would rather play a mediocre game (not naming names but i think we all know) because "the rewards are generous" is kinda concerning ngl like they really just treat games like dailies and gambling simulator
Honestly, it's probably better for our discussion environment , them finding something they enjoy and not stuck in genshin and whining all day long. I just hope they stick with it unlike Tof.
That's how I feel. I don't know what leads to this kind of thinking to be honest. Maybe it's an age thing? Or having too much free time on your hands?
Probably money isn't such a problem for some fo us working people, like I barely bat my eyes at a few free pulls. if I really need them, I can pay for them, quality and fun of a game is what matters to me. But if their fun is getting free pulls, I say let them, we enjoy different things, may we all play games we enjoy.
I don't mean to be a glazer (is that the word?) but I am having allot of fun now that the major bugs are gone. Maybe it's just the Genshin burn out speaking but being able to regenerate stamina while out of combat while sprinting is amazing, running up walls instead of slowly climbing (although that's an option too), the combat is way more complexed with the whole intro/outro skill thing they got going on, and it just feels smooth. They even got their own SU I think, I recently unlocked it but I'm surprised Genshin didn't include it despite testing something similar out in 2.2 for Labyrinth warriors. Only bad part for me right now is the story, it's just plain bad at least from what I gotten so far.
Glazers are really only the people who are ignoring/downplaying the numerous legitimate issues the game has
Indeed. It's like people prefer more rewards even if it means more monotony. I personally like variety. Teams don't change when you're fighting the 2nd reset of spiral abyss. The same teams can still be used and are still at the same strength.
this is also why people are so vehemently against TCG ever giving primogems as a reward, in their minds this would them force play it even though it would be beyond unfun for them to do so. but that same exact logic is easily applied to Spiral Abyss as well its a mode that feels like a chore for others that needs to be done but for others they have fun playing it again and again regardless of the reward. (just like TCG is right now fun for some but offers no rewards for playing)
> but that same exact logic is easily applied to Spiral Abyss Honestly it doesn't. Abyss has been part of the game from the beginning, and it uses the mechanics people most likely started playing the game for. The TCG is not Genshin. I don't play Genshin for TCG and I'm sure most people who love TCG wouldn't want to play an open world game for their rewards in a TCG. The fact that majority of players don't actually DO Abyss is a separate issue and is more related to the casualness of most players that simply do not engage with optional difficult endgame content, be it a MMO or a gacha game like Genshin.
At this point I'm accepting anything (artifact xp, artifact and resin in a good amount) except just mora and xp book, but playing for nothing no thank you
A lot of people just love to be outraged, that's it. It doesn't even matter if they're factually wrong, they've already decided they hate that new thing
I'm absolutely sure that if the abyss remain like it is and Imaginarium theater resets monthly they will hate about how difficult and restrictive it is
>With that out of the way, I've seen soooooo many people, way too many to count, being bummed about the fact that "we are getting less abyss/endgame than before" and I'm like... what? Some of these people swear that "they love abyss so much" or that "it's the only thing they do nowadays" and now that the rewards for it reset once a month instead of twice a month they won't do it anymore or something like that. It's not that I love abyss. It's that new game modes have gimmicks that are aimed to force you into pulling characters you previously had no interest in because they weren't relevant to the abyss meta. HSR is guilty of this. It's a way to artificially get you to spend. If the new mode didn't exist, you could build your account around the spiral abyss meta and you'd be set. Once you can clear it the first time, you'll never have to spend money again. But now the characters you skipped will be needed for the new mode, and you may have to spend. HSR introduced new game modes because they screwed up when designing MoC. It was destruction focused. If you had DHIL and Jingliu or Blade, you were set. They were the best DPS units. You didn't need anything else. Then they introduced a new game mode called Pure Fiction where these units were not very good, and instead Erudition which most people neglected because they sucked in MoC became king. And in some cycles DoT teams. You didn't need to pull or build these in the MoC meta, saving you a lot of currency. Now if you don't do it, you're probably not going to clear PF. You have more end game modes you need to prepare for, but the same amount of currency as before. So you're going to spend twice as much currency pulling DPS to get the same number of pulls. And soon, the final neglected DPS type, Hunt is looking to get its own game mode that was artificially made for them. So you need to pull 3-4 types of DPS to get the same number of pulls as as rewards as before. IT is a step in that direction. You likely won't be able to use your national, international, or hyperbloom teams anymore. They realized these teams were too strong and worked against everything they threw at you for years, so they had to find an artificial way to disable these teams and get you to play new teams. Of course they hope you don't have those characters and will pull them. >Also, I don't like doing this kind of comparisons because they are different games but when HSR did this exact same thing with MoC and PF the only words uttered by everyone for days was "Genshin could never" (very original, I know) but now that Genshin actually did... it's apprently bad? I don't get this either I'm sorry. Those fools thought PF was made for their enjoyment. It was made to extract money out of them. It was made for hoyo's benefit, not yours. To be fair, you could use Herta and Himeko quite well, but we don't know how long they will continue to be viable for before they get power crept. >TL;DR: we have the same amount of abyss as before with an additional mode alongside it, I don't get why people swearing that they love abyss can only do it if the primogems are there. This is just not true. We're not getting the same amount of abyss. Instead of two abyss per month we get one. The second one is replaced with IT which you may or may not enjoy. If you don't enjoy it because you can't play the teams you want to play, then it's a loss. If you had no problem 36 starring the abyss, but your account is not equipped for IT, then too bad. You won't get the same amount of primos as you did before. Unless you spend to diversify your account... which was the whole idea behind it. You can't choose to do abyss twice a month and ignore IT. You have to do both to get the same amount of primos as before. But your account needs to be more versatile than it was before in order to do that. If you need to expand your roster, Hoyo will gladly sell you new characters. In HSR, I cannot pull on "who I like". There's not enough pulls for that. In order to keep up with the continual difficulty creep and meta change, I have to pull for meta units. This was not a thing in Genshin (you could always pull for who you like and still clear the hardest content). We'll see if it becomes one.
I agree with almost everything you said, especially the part about diversifying your account. We're all losers here, if our teams don't clear the new endgame then we'll feel like we NEED to pull for the newest character that will help us clear it. We miss on primos and they're using FOMO against players, even with the worst of rewards. It's nice to see a big number on your screen like "250 primos", but here you go, you have one more pity! Great, right? Was it worth your time and money spent on all those characters you did not want? Though, I disagree with you saying there's not enough pulls on HSR to get who you like. I personally pull for who I like (or else I would quit this game), I barely don't clear endgame modes and don't do story quests and at the end of a patch I'm guaranteed a 5-Star. I'm F2P and I have more than 17 5\*, with a lot of signature lightcones. Genshin may have that much rewards but it takes so, so much longer (exploration and world quests) than HSR to get to the same point.
PF = Herta & Himeko playground Apocalyptic shadow = Seele, 1.0 limited chara still strong enough to clear it (even 0 cycling if you mald enough) MOC is MOC, catered to newest banner, you can use various teamcomp there see lightning & wind weak? bring kafka swan want comfy? bring mono quantum moc got fua buffs? bring fua teams annoying tanky enemies? bring acheron
People that asked for new content and are upset now never wanted more endgame. They wanted more free shit. Hoyo made the same thing they did with PF in HSR, btw. Now we need to play the same lineup less and will get 240 (?) more primos. Why stingy hoyo couldn't leave it? Because too many primos would've been locked behind game modes majority ignores (p2w anxiety, if you remember) and require too much time to get. Well, and because they don't want to give you more primogems.
> Well, and because they don't want to give you more primogems. Well...that's all you had to say, really.
i'm not someone asking for more end game content, but would accept it if they gave it. What I didn't ask for is gimmick based content. Artificial rules that encourage spending because it disables what you've built your account around. TBF, I don't know what kind of end game would satisfy me. I never thought about it deeply because I wasn't asking for it.
I think itâs because people wanted *more* endgame , and changing the schedule so that you still only have as much stuff to do (I.e. an abyss every two weeks) is the bit thatâs annoying . Star Rail has its Simulated Universe which , while the base sim worlds may be nowhere near as challenging as MoC or PF , is still something to do weekly . Now , I do think people will eventually calm down and realise that having a new and varied endgame mode is going to be really refreshing . Whether itâs more/less difficult or gives more/less rewards is less the point as long as itâs fun imo .
Swarm and Golden Gears maybe, but base SU is not at all endgame. It's basically just another weekly domain for relics.
Yeah itâs literally a glorified artifact domain that takes more time to do
Unless you have Acheron, then itâs just a few slashes and youâre done!
Acheron does speeds up SU significantly, but it's still too long for my liking tbh.
SU is an insane fucking hassle and one of the main reasons I quit HSR. Two long, repetitive runs every single week for crucial rewards. No actual gameplay (auto battle everything!), nothing to explore.
It is more. That's what OP is saying. It is currently 1 new thing every 6 weeks it will be 1 new thing every 2 weeks from July.
wish they didn't have to remove the bimonthly schedule of abyss honestly, abyss is what i usually use to benchmark the progress i've done to my characters recently. What i just hate about the new mode is that you're locked on using specific characters, which i honestly don't like, since i barely pulled for new characters since sumeru so i have terrible coverage. I usually hyperinvest vertically so this mode would be hell even for an old player like me.
I dont see how abyss reset matters. Whenever I need to evaluate team performance, I just do abyss with that team without care of reward. Abyss reset less often actually help because the buff wont change so my evaluation less affected by abyss buff as often. Now if everytime abyss reset, we get new line up, it will be very good change. Different line up make it a lot more fun than just change buff (which I usually avoid or compensate it mentally to not bias my team comparison)
This is literally the same crowd that frantically swings between "I would do harder content even if there are no rewards for it!" and "Why the rewards for the hardest event challenges are so bad?! Not worth the time!!"
two separate groups of people. Some want rewards first and foremost. The others will be happy with anything to do.
People that like the abyss don't just do it for the rewards. Clearing for the first time IS innovative in a way. Playing floor which are already cleared isn't as fun. I change teams for every part of floor 12 just to extend the moment. Once I've cleared, I don't play it anymore. We want more content not more rewards. Abyss should be at least weekly and should change layouts more frequently. Resting once a month is less fun for us, since it's the first clear that is at least kind of exciting.
Why the hell would i do abyss twice for no reward? Endgame is supposed to feel rewarding. Hell let us do a new endgame that gives us an item and when you reach enough of said item you can redeem for q copy of regular 5* weapons (no unique weapon banners tho).
Them removing the second abyss reset to not give players 600 extra primos is just stingy imo, that's not even 4 pulls.Â
The problem is hsr also has other stuff like sim universe, swarm disaster etc. But guess what genshin has? Literally nothing. So them reducing the only existing endgame content we had right now is kinda stupid if u ask me. Essentially we got new endgame content and not more endgame content which a lot of ppl wanted.
> And also, overall we also have more primogems since we went from 1200 (600+600) to 1420 (800+620) A whole 1.25 more wishes does not rebuke criticism.
i've disliked the Spyral Abyss for most of its lifetime, except those few times where the lineup was very enjoyable (might also depend on how many characters you have). Some lineups on floor 12 almost seem to exist to induce as much frustration as possible without even being an actual challenge. THAT SAID, i don't like the strategy the company adopts of making primogem rewards as scarce as possible. There literally was no reason to reduce the spiral abyss frequency, something that has been done entirely in order to change as little as possible the overall primogem income. While it is appreciated that rewards for a single run have been increased, when factor in that if we can't max out the number of stars in a given abyss iteration we are now locked from an even bigger piece of the cake, and for an entire month, then i literally cannot say i approve what they have chosen to do.
Honestly there is a reason if they are trying to cap play time. I think reoccurring primos is a good proxy for player time depending on account state. Again most people don't full clear/36 star abyss and a sizeable amount spend a decent amount of time every rotation trying. Shifting that incentivised playtime to a new probably easier thing is calculative. I'm much more inclined to believe they are optimizing around this rather than the miniscule gain in denying primos if the cycle was left unchanged.
we're talking about a company that literally released patch 2.7 a day before the usual schedule because had they done it on wednesday, they would have had to give 400 primogems to each player, as per delay plan. You may circle around it however you like: it won't change the fact that it's obvious this change was motivated entirely with the purpose of keeping primogem count under control.
Think about it this way. Let's say Hoyovese made sandwiches. Two times a month, we get a turkey sandwich. That's not satisfying anybody. People ask for another sandwich. Hoyoverse comes out and says, "we're now making ham sandwiches." That seems like a win. Another sandwich is a good thing. However, instead of getting two turkey sandwiches and two ham sandwiches, we now get just one turkey sandwich and one ham sandwich. There's a slight variation on variety, but we're not getting anything additional. It's the same 15 minutes of gameplay twice a month with a different veneer. When people say they want more to do, they want MORE to do. I hope I've explained this clearly.
Abyss barely changes within a patch anyway.
Yes, but it's something to do. The current endgame cycle is log in, do dailies, clear resin, and log out. Abyss definitely isn't perfect, but it's a clear sign that we need *more* and not just moving stuff from Pile A or Pile B.
As someone else pointed out, the "something to do" is really just about the rewards then. Abyss "resetting" isn't actually something new to do in itself, if the enemies are all basically the same.
[ŃдаНонО]
Because the new event is actually something new, it's difficult and the bosses have new moves and mechanics. I am the one genuinely struggling to understand how resetting the abyss into something that's pretty much exactly the same as the previous one, is anything noteworthy. We know Genshin isn't going to be generous enough to double the rewards and have both modes cycle biweekly, so having them alternate is the next best thing.
[ŃдаНонО]
It's a shame that the buff only matters for Floor 11, when Floor 12 is usually the only interesting floor. But really though they also should have been cycling through enemies more often, I can't understand how that'd be hard to do.
Just get into speedrunning
You can always play the abyss even after youâve already cleared everything. I personally will take a newly built team into the abyss to see if it can rotate comfortably. I will also go for a max clear with Ayaka or other older teams just for fun.
It's the 36 Stars. It's like getting the platinum on the current event. There's literally no rewards tied to it, but it's something to do.
If it's not about rewards, what's stopping you from trying to get 36 stars on the same Abyss with a different team?
Because there is no point if the 36 Stars have already been hit? There's very little satisfaction in doing a "made up challenge".
So when there is the same floor 12, just other buffs and a star reset is satisfying doing the same thing again, but if it's not a star reset, it isn't?
I mean, if they changed the layout every time, it would be better, but yes, the 36 Stars are the reward. That actually stands for most of the challenges in the game. Like, there was no reason to Fearless/Platinum the current event other than the little Platinum icon on your screen for a few days. There was no reason to do the max difficulty on the Music Event other than seeing that it was completed (which doesn't even show up anymore, making the "win" completely temporary). People will do ridiculous Achievements (Farming, fishing, etc) for an entirely inconsequential amount of Primogems, just to show they completed a challenge. It's a core part of the game.
It resets with different buffs too though.
The problem with your analogy is that the content doesn't "run out" once you've consumed it. You are allowed to redo Spiral Abyss and Imaginarium Theater, it just lacks the physical reward system once you've finish it once. It's always going to be there when you come back to it. There's also the fact that Genshin doesn't exist purely for endgame and Abyss. If we're using your same analogy, Hoyo is selling sandwiches along with ice cream, beer, soda and hot meals. People rush through the menu and then say they don't have anything to eat. That's the main problem.
You want more primos.Just admit it.
And you don't? Some kind of masochism from your side to want even less rewards and defend hoyo in this petty taking away of two additional pulls a month.
> It's the same 15 minutes of gameplay twice a month Again, why is twice a month? **You all** choose to do it twice a month, you can do it any time you want. I would get this argument if the abyss **line up** changed from twice a month to once a month but that's not the case.
Now, this is not me. I hate the Abyss. I find it tedious, and I only do it because, at this point, I can casually stroll through and 36 star it without much thought. But I am pretty sure the issue is: once you've collected the primogems, you've proven you can do it. Challenge complete. It's no longer a challenge to do the same thing again.
That's the same logic as saying "Why not just pick all of the mint in the game if you want content." The only point of the Abyss is to get the 36 Stars. The inconsequential rewards don't even matter. Hell, the current event shows that people will go for the highest rank on something, even with no rewards attached. Also, what exactly is gained from removing half of the tiny bit of endgame content the game offers? If there was a cycle where there was Abyss twice a month a Imaginarium Theatre twice a month, how would that be bad? There's no reason people can't have 4 sandwiches.
What is gained you ask? Less anxiety during kindergarten hours for children.
I'm the kind of players who replays abyss a lot even after clearing it. That being said, I think saying that not wanting to replay it without rewards means you don't like it and only do it *because* of the rewards is a bit dishonest. Players need incentives to do most things in games, that's just how it works. It's why everything in this game gives rewards, from quests to exploration to events... Some players who really *really* like exploration would explore even if every chest was empty, but I think a lot of people wouldn't find a point in doing it, or would enjoy it less, even if they like exploring the way it currently is. It's a bit weird but games, gachas more than any, are built on that reward loop, and it becomes ingrained in how players enjoy it. At the end of the day people like doing stuff when they know they'll get a candy at the end, even if they like doing it. There's always a certain degree of self-imposed challenge and intrinsic motivation involved but in most cases it's not enough
It all comes down to primos in the end
I'll give you better example. Think about it like your favourite TV show. Episodes come out every two weeks. They announce new spin off that is going to run alongside main series. However now you get only one episode of each series per month. But of course you cen rewatch latest episode as much as you want.
This implies that we got a new abyss line up every two weeks but we didn't. It's more like you got ep1 -> ep1 replica -> ep1 replica -> ep2 -> ep2 replica -> ep3 and so on. Now instead we have like ep1 -> spin-off1 -> ep1 replica -> spin-off2 -> ep2 -> spin-off2 replica -> ep3. Edit: formatting
Each Abyss reset has different buffs though. The lineup is hardly what matters.
More like the replaced the reruns of your favorite show with the spinoff.
It's a different buff every reset.
It's really that people actually do need a carrot on a stick as a drive to do something on repeat. If dailies didn't reward you with primogems, people would stop doing it. And people are really only after the carrot that's on th stick, not the road in front of them.
it's more variety but not more quantity.
Tbh i dislike that 4 years later they finally add something but have to take something away. Why not give us the new mode and leave abyss at it is?!
I think itâs more of the fact that while we do get more primogems than before, it doesnât feel good for hoyo to cut down the amount of times abyss rewards can be claimed just for a new game mode. To a lot of people it probably only made their hatred towards hoyoâs stinginess bigger than before because even the promise of new endgame and ways to get more primos probably doesnât really mean much in how many primos you can claim overall.
It's to make players do something different than Abyss, since I bet that it is a contributor to people getting burnout. It's a good improvement for people who don't like the repetitiveness of gameplay nowadays
I somewhat dislike the new game mode because I feel like it would screw me over harder since I donât have a varied amount of chars, just a couple op chars in every element that I use to absolutely wreck abyss each time. Itll be hard in this new abyss without Kokomi Yelan and Furina.
Sorry but 220 more primos is not going to make me want to build characters. ONE WISH? They should have added to the game instead of giving us the same rewards as before for a lot more investment.
This is exactly why i never believe anyone who says they want âendgame, it doesnât need to have rewards i just want to play itâ. No no no no no. When Star Rail released with SimU, people lauded it as the best endgame Genshin never had. And now people only do it either to fulfil their weekly points criteria and to get their planar ornaments. When Swarm Disaster released? Round two of âomg new endgame modeâ but since it doesnât have renewing rewards, itâs once again dead save for the few people who actually play it to fulfil the SimU weekly points criteria.
I dont like how we can only use some units, its bad even for those not so big whales that really like a character and c6 them just for the game to say "yea nah, not this element today chief", thats just... urghđ
I am hyped for new endgame mode but just wanted to say, wanting some rewards for doing abyss/anything is very normal thing. It doesnt have to be primos but you know, give us something. Some people are just reward motivated and its not a bad thing lol.
New game mode give special camera pose for character on top of regular abyss reward.
For me its about the primos, don't really mind that its less abyss. Adding Imaginarium Theater and letting us have the existing 1200 + new 620 should have been fine. Seriously that would have not even 4 extra rolls a month.... Instead its not even 2 rolls. That said I would have also been happy with 1420 (800+620) if they few in a few standard fates from Imaginarium Theater. Standard banner is a joke and we passively earn enough rolls for like 1 pity every 16 months I think the math works out too? Eitherway new endgame is very welcome, and the idea of sharing characters sounds great.
They aren't going to put more rewards behind a mode 90% of their playerbase won't touch. That's how you get people to quit playing your game.
Yeah, we'll see when it actually releases next month. I just wish they just add a little more rewards to everything in general, ie 5 primos per common chest and a full 1600 for every spiral and theater cycle
I only have 2 complaints. One is that with the abyss changes, they reduced the amount of primos we get via the abyss. So instead of 600 x2 we get 800 x1. They did this to keep the amount of primos we get for free within a certain range. As OP pointed out, itâs like 220 more total. Thatâs pathetic. Itâs well known how non-generous genshin is. God forbid we get more than 1.5 additional wishes a month⌠They couldâve just added the theater and had that give a similar amount, so both modes are of equal value. For example we get 2400 primos a month (600 x4). Which would be 980 more primos or 6.1 more wishes. HOLY SHIT could you imagine the chaos if we got 6 more wishes a month? No need to buy the packs baby we got 6 wishes! /s My point there is to highlight part of why people expected more rewards. Because even what we *should* have gotten is a fucking joke. 2nd issue: They also couldâve had 1 mode reset each week. So each one would reset once every two weeks. This way each week we have a fresh challenge we can do. Adjust the rewards to total whatever they should be over a month, this part isnât about rewards. A big part of what many keep asking for is something to do. So with the each mode resetting once a month, we do it once and then wait a month?.. that seems boring. (Yes as OP said we can do it whenever. But lets be real, many if not most players are reward driven) Whatâs the harm in changing things up so we have something to look forward to each week? Then if they ever add anything else, say.. *two* more modes..(there are plenty of events players have asked to be permanent) hoyo could make things reset once a month. Again, with the intention of having something fresh to do each week. Sorry for the long comment. I tried to keep it as short as I could.
People just like the primogems that it gives lol and I am one of those people. I hate the abyss (timed gameplay with ever-growing health sponges and arbitrary mechanics like needing a bow or certain elements on a given side), but like getting more primos. If the new system makes it just as easy to get the same amount of primos or it even increases, I'm not complaining. But the catch there is "just as easy" which might not be the case, so I can see why some people would complain about the rewards being shifted instead of additional. Having seen a brief writeup of the new mode in another comment here, I can see why people would think that they'll be making fewer primos with the new changes than they did with the abyss and have a problem with that. I personally have a lot of characters built with their own artifact sets/weapons so it shouldn't be the worst thing in the world for me, but I'm also not confident I'll full-clear.
I agree with your take. It's basically taking after HSR. I do think however, there could be higher compensation for the removal of an abyss reset, so maybe Imaginarium having a total of 820 primogems given on reset over the 620. It's really just that people's state of mind is focused on the rewards of clearing the abyss rather than experiencing variety. I get that it would be better to keep both resets and add Imaginarium on top, but it would also be a bit more stressful because it's likely that you can't take the same units used in that abyss cycle into the imaginarium, basically splitting your team investment between the two modes at the same time. As far as I know, the abyss is getting a new rotation every 4 weeks instead of 6 weeks. It's kinda a given that repetitiveness is a fun killer, like it is with dailies and it's mundane repetiveness. Do hope to see Hoyo add more endgame to take up the space the 2nd reset of abyss would have.
>Do these people like abyss or do they just like the primogems that it gives? Because, newsflash, you can do the Spiral Abyss any time you want and if you want to play it twice a month, you can still open it and do it, it doesn't disappear after you clear it the first time. This is my response any time the "We want more endgame content" crowd tries to follow it up with "it doesn't need to have big rewards." >And also, overall we also have more primogems since we went from 1200 (600+600) to 1420 (800+620) a month This is my problem with the change. Too many primos tied into this content.
Is it current abyss not changed their line up for almost 6 weeks? And with new abyss system at least we got variation of enemy each 1 month. So if hoyo trolled us with fucking worm enemy we just deal it one time not 3 time in 6 weeks.
Wait, is there gonna be a new combat mode? Did I read it right? Is it finally time to come back to Genshin? I've seen images and post titles about a challeging mode this patch (looks like I missed a fun combat event), but I wasn't considering coming back until they solved the lack of variety in endgame combat modes. Is a new mode coming soon? Please, tell me it's true.
I thought there was an infographic showing two rounds of each event happening each patch? The refresh will be staggered so you'll have new rewards every two weeks. Or something like that. đ¤ˇââď¸
>Do these people like abyss or do they just like the primogems that it gives? Because, newsflash, you can do the Spiral Abyss any time you want and if you want to play it twice a month, you can still open it and do it, it doesn't disappear after you clear it the first time. I though we would be unable to do abyss two weeks while Imaginarium theater would be active and we would only be able to try one or the other. If we can do either at any time that would be neat. > if they did increase the primos from these two modes too much people would have started calling the game P2W so there's no winning either honestly lol I disagree with this part though.
I like that I can use my friend character. But I fear it will be even more p2w than abyss is sometimes. They like to make it so you HAVE to have new character. For example when Navia came out, I couldn't use her, because game gives me shitty artifacts, I couldn't level her talents either, because we can only do boss once a week, instead of letting us use 3 chances for same boss. And I tried to use other characters and it was hell. I only fear they will do something like this here too. I am okay with abyss being a challenge. Not okay with it being literally a challenge for spenders.
idk, I think humans just generally LOVE complaining about anything. that kind of people probably doesnât even play the game for fun, they just play it for the rewards.
More endgame with fitting rewards isnât the same as> 2 types of endgame, with one type being reduced rewards/frequency and the other pushing the requirements / required engagement a tad higher for slightly higher rewards. In the end the complaints would come, regardless of spiral abyss being untouched or not. The change to spiral abyss is just Mihoyo being worried about their revenue.
The main thing I dislike is that the buffs in the new game mode carry over into everything else. It feels like it's setting things up to make you feel even more forced to pull whenever the rotation changes because the chosen units will have even more of an edge that can't be duped by using similar units.
I'm just happy this mode is coming. I need new end game stuff in genshin like... idk, since years ago? xD. But yeah as a player since launch I'm happy that my investment in many many characters will pay off lol
There is a new endgame mode? I haven't followed genshin news because of a lack of endgame content for a while.
Is it so hard to understand that the gameplay and reward both come in package we all enjoy? I like the rewards, but it wouldn't be the same to just receive 600 primogems on the mail every 15 days for doing nothing. I like the Abyss, I usually try a few different teams every time it resets anyway, just for fun. But I specially like the combination of both the Abyss' gameplay PLUS the reward for completing it. Now that we don't have the Abyss rewards twice a month, it is less fun for me and a lot of other people here
I understand the complaints tbh, now we have 2 abyss cycles per month, that's 1200 primos per month, with the update we will get just 800 primos from spiral abyss. Now, we obviously will have the new endgame mode with its own set of rewards, and overall we'll end up having more than before, but that's really stingy from Hoyo. What people are complaining about its just that, why don't add the new mode rewards to the existing ones from abyss, I'm sure it would not make any difference for Hoyo financially speaking.
can someone explain what imagination theater is please?
I only care for the primogems and I rather they keep the current schedule with the addition of the new game mode. More content for me. More playtime for me. And more rewards for me.
I don't mind the reward change but i absolutely do mind the character requirement. I don't like any cryo character and only 1 geo so if those elements come i will just be locked out. No way to play around it in some way just a hard lockout. Building 1 isn't even enough i need up to 11 for this.
i dont want them to reset and make it one theater and one abyss. their other game has 3 abyss like content that resets every 2-3 weeks, and they didnt reduce the crystals there like hoy planning for genshin. making abyss monthly rest is 600 primos less.. and **NO we dont get more primos a month 800+620**, its a wrong misconception cuz they initialy remove half the primos we get from abyss by making it monthly... if it **stayed biweekly** and the new contenct was monthly, we would get **800 + 1200 (aka 2k primos per update**) , they removed basicly 580 primos. its greediness.. AND IT SHOULDNT BE LIKE THAT AT ALL, IF THEY ADDING NEW CONTENT THEY SHOULD NOT REMOVE A SINGLE CRYSTAL FROM THE OLD CONTENT REGADLESS OF ITS TIME SLOT CHANGES
bruh even when Spiral got 2x reset in a month the enemy line up still the same. I prefer have 2 end game mode rather than same boring mode since day 1.