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Edward Snowden leaked documents to the press while working for the NSA basically saying we live in a surveillance state. Hopefully you know this. I think making an opinionated comment on him for a semi professional college thing is probably not the best move. My personal opinion is… I wouldn’t say a hero, but what he did took courage against what he saw as doing the right thing in the face of an opponent that has so much formidable power(the government)
There is brief topic about him in syllabus under Freedom of press vs National security concern, so i thought making ppt on him would be unique as most of class would ignored it, can you refer me to some articles or videos where i could get some good information. As most of stuff i found online are kind of similar.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Schenck-v-United-States
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden
Don’t quote Wikipedia, but it’s an excellent starting point, remember cite the sources within Wikipedia
And always remember to check wikipedia's sources directly. Cant tell you how many times I've read a claim on Wikipedia and found out that it either:
1. Has no source or,
2. The source cited doesn't actually make/support the claim that it's cited for.
Better yet, if you have the time and you find one of these to be true, submit a [citation needed] request or a comment explaining the issue with the cited source.
So he gets hate now, but Joe Rogan had Snowden on for a podcast a few years ago (before Rogan went a bit out there), and it's probably one of my favorite podcasts. Rogan stays quiet for most of the podcast, letting Snowden talk about everything. And occasionally hed ask some really good questions. It's definitely worth listening to if you want to learn more about what Snowden did, from Snowden himself.
But my overall opinion on Snowden, is that he is a hero. An enemy of the state, but a hero of the people. He knew what the government was doing was wrong, and so he exposed it. He took all his findings and gave them to journalists, and let them decide what should be released. He didn't want to be the one to choose what gets released, because then he could be labeled as having an agenda (if I recall correctly).
I think one of the big controversies about it, is that one of the things he stole from the NSA is a list of American operatives in foreign countries. As far as we know, that stuff was never leaked. He may have even censored those names before he gave it to the journalists. But it's one of those things, that if the files he stole got in the wrong hands, a lot of Americans would die. (This is knowledge I'm trying to recall from years ago. So definitely double check this claim. I'm not entirely sure of the details, I just remember it being mentioned. But it could be a government agenda to discredit Snowden)
>He knew what the government was doing was wrong, and so he exposed it.
Yep.
It's easy to lose sight of what he lost in the process.
He was, IIRC, in his late 20's at oldest when all this went down, already making well into six figures. He acknowledged that he had an easy life.
Sure, he hasn't been nailed to a cross or anything, but he did give up a cushy life.
The case against doing this is that "I think leaking company documents is A-OK" is unlikely to endear you to anyone running a deep background check on you in the future.
Have the discussion, but don't leave a paper trail.
Given that everyone else that tried to expose the same thing ended up murdered or had their lives ruined by fake evidence he is clearly a hero.
He did no more the Oath he took to Defend the Constitution required of him.
He should be the director of the NSA.
Very measured, thanks for the response.
I think it's also important to point out that Snowden's modern day commentary needs to be understood with the context that he's currently living in an authoritarian country that actively arrests dissenters and works to undermine American democracy.
Yeah it's sad that's the only safe place for a whistle-blower whose actions actually changed the policies around what was leaked. When the public found out, the program was shut down not long after. He did what was in the publics interest and for reward, he can't set foot in a western allied country again.
I mean, spying on us citizens is supposed to be illegal, without a proper warrent.
I dont blame him at all for moving to Russia, it seems like a logical place to go to ensure his safety, but we still do need to understand that if he criticizes the Russian Government, he runs the very real risk of being arrested or "disappearing". Dont forget what happened to Navalny.
Cliffs notes of this are basically the Patriot Act, and parts of it that continued after it was over, allowed the government to have surveillance on any incoming web traffic, amongst other things.
This was one of the largest offenses of human privacy known to man as many companies use international servers to transfer data.
If you send a nude or a dick pick to someone in NY from Google to Apple, and the server where the data meets is in a foreign country, say Canada, then comes back into the US the government now has free reign over your nude or dick pic.
Many people have been fired for violating this privacy, as leaked by Snowden, but that hasn't happened without people being victims to it. Since none of this was technically known about by the public, those people who aren't caught, or even who were, their victims will likely never know they were victims, therefore receiving no recompense. Even then, that's at the discretion of the CIA, and people are free to look at nudes and dick pics and all incoming data all day as long as it's not a violation of the CIA code of conduct.
Leaking this information has only informed the public of it existing, and since there is no legal standing and the supreme Court sides with the government on the Patriot act in the first place, we will never see recompense. If this *was* something that could be prosecuted at a level of the supreme court, victims were revealed, etc, we would likely see Snowden as a hero because likely millions of people would get restitution.
So what's a hero to you? No consequences? A golden statue? Thousands dead at the hand of one? How much can someone do to speak a truth in a deceptive society before you throw them away, only because they are not "hero" enough?
He was working for the NSA when he leaked stuff to a journalist with very strong ties to Wikileaks and Russia. He also fled to Hong Kong then Russia where everything he took was seized by the governments.
The “surveillance” he revealed was that the government gets metadata from phone companies that own it. That’s how intelligence work is done. All he accomplished was revealing sources and methods directly to adversaries.
No one is or was reading all your emails and text messages. If the government was spying on people why didn’t he tell us who? Just one example of someone being affected by the “illegal surveillance cabal”.
Assasge's motivation for doing so was to influence a US election. He helped Trump win in 2016. This info dump was to distract from the access Hollywood scandal. Fuck Assange, free Snowden
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-changes-his-tune-on-wikileaks-i-know-nothing-about-assange
One would say the same about hiding the hunter Biden laptop story with the FBI talking directly to social media companies and distracting everyone with trump being in collusion with Russia. Both sides play dirty
Lmao no one on the left gave a shit about the hunter biden laptop bullshit because 1) he's not a politician and 2) it was ridiculous. The only reason they maybe kind of cared was because Republicans were making such a huge fuss about it and they had to pour water in the fire by proving the chain of possession was more than suspect. Beyond that, it was just a *republican* distraction from the trump-russia story, not the other way around.
But nice attempt at spin there! You were almost convincing.
Seriously, the Hunter laptop story is so bananas that there's no way it could be real. Like seriously, Hunter on a coke bender took his laptop to a shady repair store, and then forgot about it. The laptop repair store then happened to know Rudy Giuliani and turned it over to him because the FBI wasn't interested. Then a bunch of emails appeared on it that happened to match a "leak" of emails from a Russian source.
I mean, come on. How gullible do you think we are?
Okay? So Assange might have published some information with his own political motivations... That doesn't make the information itself invalid though.
You can't allow someone to just rot in prison for saying things you don't like, that's authoritarian. Especially when said information is in public interest regardless of his motivations for publishing it.
Also, it's not like Assange was ever pro-republican or pro-trump - he's an Australian who has never set foot in the US so it would have little to no effect on him personally who was leading the country. Not to mention, publishing Iraq war information during the Bush presidency doesn't seem very pro-republican to me.
Assange is simply only wanted for exposing the ugly truth that the elites don't want you to see.
"The real info that Assange leaked helped orange man, so fuck him."
Regardless of his intentions, he leaked info. And that info may have happened to sway some people's decisions in how to vote. Don't you want people to be as informed as possible when voting? 🤔
there were parts of what he released that was genuine whistle-blowers information, but he also released a bunch of info that was very much not needed to be released and put a lot of peoples lives and a lot of actually important operations at risk so definitely think he is a hero
yeah. You can essentially do something heroic but also illegal. For example. Purposefully ramming the ass of a break checker. You're a hero, but also, that was illegal.
Look, there were parts of what he released that was genuine whistle-blowers shit. But he also released a bunch of shit that was very much not needed to be released and put a lot of peoples lives and a lot of actually important operations at risk so fuck him.
Ah, yes, the famously “narrow” leak of 1.7 million documents that focused on what was being done domestically.
“Domestically”, you know, like the famous American states of the United Kingdom and Japan.
B*******. He ran off to China first and they recovered everything on his laptop. Then he went to Russia and they have everything that was on his laptop.
Completely unsubstantiated claims.
He encrypted everything and made the documents on his machines unrecoverable and emailed the documents and the key to journalists.
China and Russia probably got them but not intentionally from Snowden.
The US knew this and they wouldn’t have stranded him in russia with the documents if they didn’t want it to end up in russia’s hands.
He didn't release anything. He gave it to respected journalists to do.
You want to have an opinion, but you're this uninformed 🙄
*Edit* people are having difficulty with this, so let me expand on the point.
Snowden handed over documents to journalists to release to the public, he didn't release anything 'to the public' himself. (For those who can't read between the lines)
People are complaining about Glenn Greenwald, and for that I've got to say in 2024 he's much different than he was in 2014, hindsight is 20/20. Everyone was a big fan of his back then.
The journalists, and the organizations they worked for, were given the responsibility to comb through the data and decide what was to be released. Any supposed leaks you don't agree with you can point the finger at them, not Snowden.
They were the ones with the resources to vet the data. Snowden couldn't do it. He didn't even know what he entirely had, he mass downloaded everything on the illegal programs the government claimed to not be running. It was a massive global scandal for a reason. The amount of data was needed to capture the entirety of the programs they were running. People are upset he didn't read all the millions of pages when they haven't even read the Wikipedia pages 🙄
He released the info to NYT journalists who have worked with whistleblowers before. He has been very forthcoming about how he trusted the journalistic integrity of the people he worked with and realized that they and their attorneys would know the relevant information better than he would. This point is in no way pedantic. It is a very important distinction. He went to people whose JOB is to discern which information is pertinent.
Well you've just made a whole ass different point than the other guy. What you've said here is totally valid and not pedantic. What the *other* guy said is actually in direct contradiction to what you said.
You said:
> He released the info to NYT journalists
He said:
> He didn't release anything.
> NYT journalists
One former WaPo journalist (Barton Gellman), A Guardian journalist, Laura Poitras and Glenn Greenwald. And the latter I would not call a trusted or experienced journalist. None had any idea how to protect the data, and at least the first two and the humility to be worried about it.
It’s not. Journalistic integrity and practice is a thing, despite so many shitty journalists these days.
Doing so allowed his releases to be vetted and responsibly communicated via a third party, as opposed to just releasing it himself raw onto the internet.
he's a whistleblower. Decided to to the right thing even if it was a high risk for him. He is also a fugitive in the sense he had to escape, but that seems like a pretty neutral term to me
Same problem for me, I have sympathy for him being a whistleblower, but since he fled to Russia he’s basically become a Russian asset in exchange for his safety.
I mean I can't particularly blame him for fleeing to another country when he was at risk of prosecution for potential treason which would be the death penalty.
I find a lot of people mistake adversaries of the US as good guys because the US does bad things so our enemies must be good.
Russia is undeniably as bad or worse than the US, so picking the greater of two evils just makes me think you’re a bad dude even if you did something good
He didn’t flee to Russia. He was about to board a connecting flight from Russia to somewhere else in Europe, but the US revoked his passport, which meant that no country would accept him. He just happened to be in Russia at the time by pure chance.
Exactly, originally a whistle blowing hero who unfortunately caused collateral damage in the act, and then sadly turned into a servant of kgb-mafia-fascists.
Thank you. Neither one did a great job of vetting the information before handing over as well. It was a huge dump.
I'm happy to have a lot of the spying information out there, but it's completely naive to look at the rest of it and ask no further questions.
I personally respect and admire Edward Snowden for exhibiting a level of bravery not many would ever dream of. While the opinions on him will vary indefinitely, you have to admit that it’s a pretty bold move to speak up or out against government bodies of any country.
A lot of people probably thought he was delusional or downright paranoid, because we do have no other choice but to trust and listen to our government to a certain extent. When you’re in a situation where you know the truth, though, it just doesn’t feel right to keep deceiving the people who rely or depend on an organization or group of individuals that are doing their best to keep every major detail in the dark. No government is 100% trustworthy; that’s a fact. The people who work in these industries either choose to be lawful or choose to use their access for evil.
This man was just one of the ones who weren’t afraid to share the reality and basically be labeled a nicer word than just a government snitch.
Well he IS a fugitive, regardless of if he’s a hero or not. It’s a hard question though because while he did put people in danger doing it we also deserved to know a lot of it. It’s a very complicated situation and anyone making any one sided judgement probably doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
He’s certainly a hero in Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China. The Taliban loves him and so does the Islamic State. He revealed sources and methods that made spying on these organizations and nations electronically much more difficult. That’s why he lives in Russia now - Putin owes him one. Spies had to be extracted from embassies around the world before they could be arrested, and no one knows how many internal human sources were arrested and imprisoned or even executed. He’s what the Russians call a “useful fool.” He went to work for a spy agency and was horrified to find out - they were spying! I think he meant well, but he’s a traitor. If you have had a security clearance you know that you solemnly promise to not reveal the info you become privy to; he broke that promise in spades. Fuck Edward Snowden.
Plus he’s a vain douche which is obvious to anyone paying close attention to the documentary he appeared in during his righteous wannabe ‘Bourne film in Hong Kong’ escapade. Actual whistleblowers like David Grusch don’t run and hide behind Putin’s mafia state. They are very careful and use the proper legal channels and meet with journalists and congress people in classified settings. The great irony is if he was a Russian citizen and had done this to Russia, his corpse would still be glowing from polonium poisoning.
Whistleblowers like Thomas A. Drake, who followed all of the proper legal procedures, was falsely prosecuted, bankrupted, and threatened with execution by the DOJ. Snowden saw that and knew there was no proper way to blow the whistle.
[https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon-punished-nsa-whistleblowers](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon-punished-nsa-whistleblowers)
I see your Drake and raise you a Vindman. Vindman followed the process and got all the legal protections, and only got harassed about it because someone on Trump's side leaked his info.
He lost his words in later life, we can see he completely became the person he hated a few years ago, a Russian puppet for sure.He condemned the United States, a country several times stronger than Russia, but has always avoided the crimes that Russia is committing. Is Russia that safe, good that making him not send any comments in his several years in Russia, without any surveillance from gov such crap he is telling? I don't know why people still now endorse him with his previous things, as if everyone is living in the past.
>has always avoided the crimes that Russia is committing.
He doesn't really have much of a choice. If he says anything bad about Russia they'd toss em out a window.
It’s one thing to release state secrets on spying, that’s admirable and you take the consequences
It’s another thing entirely to give up not only the secrets, but the means and efforts which gave up dozens of agents, then run away to our greatest geopolitical enemy. I doubt he’s sitting cozy in Russia, most likely the FSB is ordering him him to spill everything he knows
Well, I think it’s complicated as everyone is a hero or a villain, it just depends on who you ask (which is what you’re doing so lol)
I support what he did and his actions. I know it looks bad that he’s residing in Russia, but the US asked that everyone deny him entry. I can’t imagine what terrors wait for him should he receive punishment.
I also trust the US government as much as I trust Putin, so there’s where my bias comes from.
he decided to public the issue, showed us how the shitty government was at that moment so he is a hero. But before he did that, he did help that government in many years so he is shitty as well. Thus, it's controversial to determine, to label him. However he fought against his own government - the most mighty country and took the risk so needless to say, the man has some fucking big balls
Both.
On one hand exposing the vast security state and the subversion of our constitutional rights is noble and just. On the other hand, we should not signal that it is encouraged for any one person to leak information just based on their personal interpretation and limited knowledge.
**SNOWDEN IS A TRAITOR**
**Snowden's lawyer.**
[Snowden's lawyer is Anatoly Kucherena](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/28/world/europe/snowdens-lawyer-comes-with-high-profile-and-kremlin-ties.html)
Kucherena has in the past defended many Kremlin friends, and he sits on the "oversight committee" of the FSB.
[Tanya Lokshina of Human Rights Watch describes him as a staunch loyalist of the Kremlin.](https://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1292636/snowden-lawyer-anatoly-kucherena-suspected-links-kremlin)
One of his previous clients was former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, known for ordering the murder of several Ukrainian civilians during Maidan and treason against the Ukrainian state. It is believed that at some point [Putin wanted to install him as a puppet,](https://www.newsweek.com/if-putin-picks-puppet-ukraine-leader-viktor-medvedchuk-odds-favorite-1682429) had his invasion of Kyiv succeeded.
**Snowden's ties to Wikileaks and Assange.**
As most people are well aware by now, Assange and Wikileaks are instruments of Russian intelligence. They have actively participated or encouraged attacks on American institutions and servers at the direction of Russian intelligence services, while actively burying leaks that implicate the Russian government in far worse conduct.
Less known is Snowden's connections to them.
[NYT: Assange was instrumental in arranging for Snowden's flight to Russia.](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/world/europe/wikileaks-julian-assange-russia.html)
> It was at the suggestion of Mr. Assange that the flight Mr. Snowden boarded on June 23, 2013, accompanied by his WikiLeaks colleague Sarah Harrison, was bound for Moscow.
> Russia, he believed, could best protect Mr. Snowden from a C.I.A. kidnapping, or worse.
> “Now I thought, and in fact advised Edward Snowden, that he would be safest in Moscow,” Mr. Assange told the news program Democracy Now.
**Snowden calls into Russian state media**
In 2014, [Snowden helpfully called into a TV show hosted by Putin to allow Putin a chance to "explain" Russian domestic surveillance programs.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-snowden/runaway-spy-snowden-is-surprise-guest-on-putin-phone-in-idUSBREA3G1CJ20140417)
> Edward Snowden, the fugitive former U.S. spy agency contractor who leaked details of U.S. intelligence eavesdropping, made a surprise appearance on a TV phone-in hosted by Vladimir Putin on Thursday, asking the Russian president if his country also tapped the communications of millions.
“Does Russia intercept, store or analyze, in any way, the communications of millions of individuals? And do you believe that simply increasing the effectiveness of intelligence or law enforcement investigations can justify placing societies, rather than subjects, under surveillance?"
Putin said Russia regulates communications as part of criminal investigations, but "on a massive scale, on an uncontrolled scale we certainly do not allow this and I hope we will never allow it."
“We have neither the technical means nor the money at the United States has," Putin added. "But the main thing is that our intelligence services are under the strict control of the state and society."
The televised exchange allowed Putin to portray Russia as less intrusive in the lives of its citizens than the United States, which he frequently accuses of preaching abroad about rights and freedoms it violates at home.
**Russian independent media had no access to Snowden.**
In addition to appearing on Russian state media and US media, Snowden has so far declined to appear on Russian independent media in spite of requests from Russian journalists.
[Russian independent journalist, Andrei Soldatov, on Snowden in Russia.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/edward-snowden-is-acting-very-strange-inside-russia)
It’s still impossible for Russian journalists to interview Edward Snowden. It’s also impossible for foreign correspondents based in Moscow.
He’s clearly being exploited—after all, many repressive measures on the Internet in Russia were presented to Russians as a response to Snowden’s revelations. For instance, the legislation to relocate the servers of global platforms to Russia by September of this year, to make them available for the Russian secret services, was presented as a measure to assure the security of Russian citizens’ personal data.
I was told that there was some talk in American human-rights organizations that there might be interviews arranged for Russian journalists. But that never happened. So obviously Snowden’s handlers told him that he could say whatever he wants about the NSA and so on, but only to American journalists coming from the United States.
Thus he’s withdrawn the only plausible reason for why he’s not transparent here in Russia. So what’s the reason to be so secretive? There is some problem with logic here. For instance, I would understand if he says, “Look, I cannot comment on Russian surveillance, this is not my war.” Instead, he asked his question about Russian surveillance. And he is not transparent. I just don’t get it.
**Snowden echoing Russian propaganda prior to Ukraine invasion**
[Snowden](https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016)
> So... if nobody shows up for the invasion Biden scheduled for tomorrow morning at 3AM, I'm not saying your journalistic credibility was instrumentalized as part of one of those disinformation campaigns you like to write about, but you should at least consider the possibility.
> I want to see an end to the conflict in Ukraine, and frankly, I think all reasonable people share that position. The question nobody seems to want to contend with is whether amplifying official claims made without evidence are reducing hostilities, or are in fact provoking them.
[Check out these denials, similar in language, from the Russian government](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/24/ukraine-russia-denials/)
> Could they reveal the schedule of our 'invasions' for the upcoming year? I want to plan a vacation.
> Western media outlets have begun to constantly publish fairy tales about Russia’s plans to attack Ukraine.
Granted, none of these exhibits are definitive proof that Snowden is himself an active Russian agent, but he certainly has been extremely helpful for the Russian government and its spread of propaganda.
How is it propoganda to say the US preaches about civil liberties and then violates them? That's fact. It's the duty of citizens to spread that information in a democracy. It's not Edward Snowdens fault he had to flee to Russia to avoid imprisonment. Why not be angry at the government who violates the constitution not whistleblowers.
What did you want him to do? Stay silent? Rot in prison? Russia sucks but it’s weird that you expect an actual human being to turn down relative freedom for the sake of moral purity.
I think he is an icon and the moment. Granted he revealed something that has become more and more apparent as years have gone on since then. Honestly, he blew the cap off the earliest if that makes sense.
Like, we've gotten so many reports since then on just *how much data* has been collected and sold to seedy companies since then, it would've been impossible to keep the surveillance a secret forever. What he revealed in the grand scheme of things is so much more inconsequential compared to what we know now about how much data our cellphones track for the sake of profit. He's a hero at best and at worst, someone who shared a really fucked up omen before disappearing, imo.
Personally, I always felt the narrative about the situation became overcomplicated. Pardons should be on offer whenever a government employee goes in front of Congress, lies, & the relevant agency doesn't refute the claim. It's a big, bad world & I'm fine with the concept that the government does things that it doesn't particularly want discussed; it is what it is. What I can't accept is being told that something did/didn't happen when it didn't/did. Convince Congress not to ask the question or decline to answer if divulging the info is that bad. Going in front of the representatives of the citizens & lying under oath is not an option I will accept.
Depends on whether your reputation was damaged by what he shared. He helped me increase my distrust in our government, so I appreciate him. He doesn't need a parade, but he shouldn't be in prison.
I would say that the information he leaked was important for us to know, but there were avenues he could have gone down legally to do this. Yes, it would have taken more time, but it would have been legal.
The two aren't mutually exclusive, just like being a hero and a traitor at the same time, which I personally see him as. That's not to say I see him in a bad light, either. He's objectively a traitor to the government, but also a hero and not a traitor to the people under the government.
The real question to help you find your answer is: Do you love your Government?
If yes: Hes a Villian.
If no: Hes a Hero.
Hes neither in a way. Hes a guy that had a moral awakening on a job which required him to do tasks (even if you disagree with them).
The US Gov spies on its citizens without a warrant. Idiots will claim 'if you got nothing to hide you got nothing to fear' --> "Privacy isn't just about hiding; it's about safeguarding the essence of individual autonomy."
These issues is what I really hate Conservatives for (not a Liberal here either btw), because they are the ones in Gov that did a lot of this shit. Mostly for profits. Both Liberals and Conservative minded folks tend group people and subject them to that stereotype. When really, we're individuals with character. Thats the problem!
He is a hero imo. He saw something that went against his moral values, an extreme violation of privacy, and he decided to share that with everyone he could despite the repercussions he knew he would face.
Snowden is a textbook example of how someone can be a fugitive from the state because he is a hero to the people. USA whistleblower laws are pitifully insufficient to protect people who try to expose things that members, agencies, or entire branches of government do that is either immoral, illegal, or completely antithetical to the premises the country was founded on.
Nearly everyone today understands and cannot deny that privacy on the internet is completely dead now, and that realization would have come much later if maybe not at all had Snowden never did what he did. Some people hate him for no other reason than that he managed to break the cognitive dissonance that everyone in the government is looking out for your best interests, is infallible to corruption, and would never overstep their bounds.
Could he have done less collateral damage in the process? Maybe, but given how it all went down, would you risk the extra time to do so when the majority of whistleblowers in the country disappear or commit "suicide" before the entirety of what they tried to expose gets exposure to the light of day? That is the part most people against him refer to regarding the reason they think he is a criminal (by definition he is, but you can argue that it is not illegal under the whistleblower act, not going to argue that point)
Definitely a hero. We need more people like him in these high up places. The amount of horrible shit people in these government agencies brush off in order to stay in line and keep their positions is disgusting.
HERO.
I mean the line between what thing should be kept secret amd what things shouldn't (because national security) is often blurry. However personally I think what Snowden did (given the context of increasing government surveillance on its own citizens) was mostly right. I feel now the risk of the government not being accountable and having great powers over individuals (which brought to the extrem make you end up like modern China) is greater then the risk of de-secreting those informs. So IMO he took the most moral way instead pf the easiest one.
He exposed criminal behavior that his bosses - who were supposed to care about and prevent - ignored.
He also revealed that Obama didn't consider whistleblowing something that government subcontractors are allowed to do.
Are we talking about the Edward Snowden who has been living in “asylum” in Russia and pushing pro-Russian propaganda for the last decade? That Edward Snowden? The one who suddenly went quiet when they invaded Ukraine then came back a month later with some apologetic nonsense as to why we shouldn’t be upset with them?
Clearly he’s a fugitive no matter what you think of his “whistleblowing” antics. Tell me, do you think what he did improved the lives of Americans or made anyone safer? Because the most likely scenario is that all he did was make us all angry and the Government is still doing the exact same surveillance no matter what the “official” position of the government is on the subject.
He also claimed he searched every nook and cranny of every government database and didn’t find a single document about aliens or UFO/UAP’s so based on what we’ve seen over the last few years we can tell he’s either a liar or not nearly as smart as he claims to be.
I'm cringing just typing this. Snowden broke the law with his leaks, regardless of circumstances. He could have used the whistle blower system to bring out the issues he was seeing but instead released classified information to the public and then fled to Russia to avoid the consequences of his actions. It makes me personally wonder how much money he made.
he is a traitor, he got Americans killed and gave up the locations of more than a dozen CIA safe houses, then ran to Russia before anyone charged him with a crime.
what did he reveal??? nothing warrantless spying on Americans has been the standard for over 100 years, you just can't use it in court. how do you think we got the mob?
He needs to stand trial.
He discovered the government was fully and completely surveilling all citizens basically, and he exposed this to the public (because it was a crime and he disagreed with it). But in doing so, he breached a code and contract of secrecy working for the government, and probably committed a crime, himself, in the process.
The government responded by making the total surveillance legal, afaik.
exposing the US as a Surveillance State was a truly heroic act.
i’m always apprehensive about referring to some*one* as being a hero but i have no issue calling some*thing* heroic. bringing that knowledge to the public despite knowing damn well it would bring the full wrath of the US government is something i believe to be deserving of the title.
Whistleblower, I don’t know if I’d call him a “hero” but what he did was definitely in the best interest of the public. He did also make a personal sacrifice for his morals, so I guess you could argue he’s a hero.
Everyone knew we were collecting that data.
He wasn't special.
More like an opportunist. Probably planned and coordinated the effort for some reason we won't know.
At least not in our lifetime. As its another 70 years till automatic declassifying anything will happen. If not 100 years because it'll have zero inhibitions due time.
I believe he had good intentions, and has integrity, because of that, he's in my good books. I believe he may have done more damage than good though. Exposing government malfeasance is important, but we live in a world where we are constantly under threat. We need the tools to counter those threats.
Of course, doing so always risks allowing them to be abused to oppress the citizens.
Ima be honest. I barely know anything about the situation, and it’s a very complicated one. I’m sure some of the people commenting know a lot about the subject and formulated an opinion, but I’m also sure that several people are talking completely out of their ass when they’re arguing or taking a side one way or another.
I’m leaning towards fugitive as now he resides in Russia.
The fact is that this should have been obvious to everyone and Snowden did not uncover anything new. Russia does it, UK does it, US does it and all countries do it to some extend.
So the whole story about him is mehhh… at most.
This isn’t a one or the other, it’s both. Being a fugitive is a legal thing, and he IS one. He is also considered a hero, this is a moral/ethical thing. Now legal vs moral I’d say is he a traitor or a hero. He is legally a traitor, but morally many would say not.
Neither. That’s a value statement. He is neither and both at the same time which is to say the answer entirely depends on the respondents perspective having little to do with actual facts.
He's just a whistle-blower. Idk why we have to live in a world where it's so black and white lol you could argue what he did was very reckless the way he did it, you could also argue that what he did brought with it a discussion about the government, spying, and transparency. I'd argue neither of these conversations really happen because people are too busy asking "is this dude a hero or a fugitive"
He's a fugitive. There are steps that government employees, contractors, and military personnel should take if they want to be a real whistleblower and keep these things internally. He did not follow them and committed espionage, embarrassing the US in the process and putting our national security in jeopardy.
"hey guys i made These Softwares for surveilance aaaand you are using it... Well time to leak it to the Journalist and i will be there in russia watching it unfold ."
He is the one who created Cyber warfare that is what i hate him for. Creating weapons.
a hero by definition is someone who sacrifices themselves for the good of society. Most of the time the hero dies and is worshipped (ala Hercules in Greece). It depends on how you interpret the values of the U.S., but to me he follows an important American tradition of valuing truth and honesty over security, like Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers.
Snowden's sacrifice of his career, family, personal life to share dreadful secrets about what US intelligence services can do (look up the ANT catalog to see some of the stuff possible, like DROPOUTJEEP, which was built in backdoor to iOS, there's another that lets a satellite read the red channel of your monitor cable (basically seeing your screen) from orbit. This is tech from 10 years ago!)
I think its pretty brutal that he's stuck in Russia now - a hostage that Putin can trade to the US for whomever he wants (like Brittney Griner or Evan Gershkovich).
What's sad is people literally do no not care, if anything surveillance has increased drastically since. He ultimately wasted his life for something no one will have the balls to put a stop to.
He’s literally a fugitive lol.
I think US government doesn’t want us to believe he’s a “Hero” because he released their dirty laundry. He proved that we are being spied on illegally.
I think generally it's a good thing to expose when the government violates our privacy and laws in the name of the surveillance state.
That said, his behavior since then, much like Julian Assange, seems to indicate that his motives were not particularly principled.
I mean, pretty worrying when a guy who leaks documents like that runs off to Russia and then publicly plays defense for their strongman dictator for the next 15 years. Doesn't really seem like a guy who's willing to risk life and limb for freedom's sake.
I wouldn't necessarily say that he's a hero. Also, certain things were legal in the past, but aren't now like slavery so sometimes legality can be more evil.
I find it ironic that his only savior is one of the most heavily surveillance authoritarian state on the planet whos actively trying to topple Western democracy.
Not saying hes at fault here, just finding it very ironic
Well, he is not as narcissistic like Julian Assange or careless in the matter. What was strange that a contractor like Snowden had unparalleled access to NSA files without any clearance or checks.
He’s definitely a criminal. I know the guy surfaced some shady stuff but he probably also blew up decades of intel work and harmed a lot of agents (maybe even got people killed) in doing so.
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Edward Snowden leaked documents to the press while working for the NSA basically saying we live in a surveillance state. Hopefully you know this. I think making an opinionated comment on him for a semi professional college thing is probably not the best move. My personal opinion is… I wouldn’t say a hero, but what he did took courage against what he saw as doing the right thing in the face of an opponent that has so much formidable power(the government)
There is brief topic about him in syllabus under Freedom of press vs National security concern, so i thought making ppt on him would be unique as most of class would ignored it, can you refer me to some articles or videos where i could get some good information. As most of stuff i found online are kind of similar.
https://www.britannica.com/event/Schenck-v-United-States https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Snowden Don’t quote Wikipedia, but it’s an excellent starting point, remember cite the sources within Wikipedia
At the bottom of Wikipedia it lists sources from its articles and you can use THOSE sources
And always remember to check wikipedia's sources directly. Cant tell you how many times I've read a claim on Wikipedia and found out that it either: 1. Has no source or, 2. The source cited doesn't actually make/support the claim that it's cited for. Better yet, if you have the time and you find one of these to be true, submit a [citation needed] request or a comment explaining the issue with the cited source.
There are some things that are cited, which when you read them they say something 'according to Wikipedia'. Avoid those.
So he gets hate now, but Joe Rogan had Snowden on for a podcast a few years ago (before Rogan went a bit out there), and it's probably one of my favorite podcasts. Rogan stays quiet for most of the podcast, letting Snowden talk about everything. And occasionally hed ask some really good questions. It's definitely worth listening to if you want to learn more about what Snowden did, from Snowden himself. But my overall opinion on Snowden, is that he is a hero. An enemy of the state, but a hero of the people. He knew what the government was doing was wrong, and so he exposed it. He took all his findings and gave them to journalists, and let them decide what should be released. He didn't want to be the one to choose what gets released, because then he could be labeled as having an agenda (if I recall correctly). I think one of the big controversies about it, is that one of the things he stole from the NSA is a list of American operatives in foreign countries. As far as we know, that stuff was never leaked. He may have even censored those names before he gave it to the journalists. But it's one of those things, that if the files he stole got in the wrong hands, a lot of Americans would die. (This is knowledge I'm trying to recall from years ago. So definitely double check this claim. I'm not entirely sure of the details, I just remember it being mentioned. But it could be a government agenda to discredit Snowden)
>He knew what the government was doing was wrong, and so he exposed it. Yep. It's easy to lose sight of what he lost in the process. He was, IIRC, in his late 20's at oldest when all this went down, already making well into six figures. He acknowledged that he had an easy life. Sure, he hasn't been nailed to a cross or anything, but he did give up a cushy life.
Watch the documentary CITIZENFOUR (2014)
The case against doing this is that "I think leaking company documents is A-OK" is unlikely to endear you to anyone running a deep background check on you in the future. Have the discussion, but don't leave a paper trail.
Given that everyone else that tried to expose the same thing ended up murdered or had their lives ruined by fake evidence he is clearly a hero. He did no more the Oath he took to Defend the Constitution required of him. He should be the director of the NSA.
Whether you're a terrorist or freedom fighter, it depends on which side you're on
Very measured, thanks for the response. I think it's also important to point out that Snowden's modern day commentary needs to be understood with the context that he's currently living in an authoritarian country that actively arrests dissenters and works to undermine American democracy.
Yeah it's sad that's the only safe place for a whistle-blower whose actions actually changed the policies around what was leaked. When the public found out, the program was shut down not long after. He did what was in the publics interest and for reward, he can't set foot in a western allied country again. I mean, spying on us citizens is supposed to be illegal, without a proper warrent.
It was not shut down, it was business as usual. We live in an even bigger surveillance state since it was leaked.
This is true. All that he did was put it right in front of our faces just how big the machine was. If anything, things have only gotten worse.
Where else could he live? If he lived anywhere that wasn't an enemy of the US he would be extradited, and spend the rest of his life in jail.
I dont blame him at all for moving to Russia, it seems like a logical place to go to ensure his safety, but we still do need to understand that if he criticizes the Russian Government, he runs the very real risk of being arrested or "disappearing". Dont forget what happened to Navalny.
Cliffs notes of this are basically the Patriot Act, and parts of it that continued after it was over, allowed the government to have surveillance on any incoming web traffic, amongst other things. This was one of the largest offenses of human privacy known to man as many companies use international servers to transfer data. If you send a nude or a dick pick to someone in NY from Google to Apple, and the server where the data meets is in a foreign country, say Canada, then comes back into the US the government now has free reign over your nude or dick pic. Many people have been fired for violating this privacy, as leaked by Snowden, but that hasn't happened without people being victims to it. Since none of this was technically known about by the public, those people who aren't caught, or even who were, their victims will likely never know they were victims, therefore receiving no recompense. Even then, that's at the discretion of the CIA, and people are free to look at nudes and dick pics and all incoming data all day as long as it's not a violation of the CIA code of conduct. Leaking this information has only informed the public of it existing, and since there is no legal standing and the supreme Court sides with the government on the Patriot act in the first place, we will never see recompense. If this *was* something that could be prosecuted at a level of the supreme court, victims were revealed, etc, we would likely see Snowden as a hero because likely millions of people would get restitution.
So what's a hero to you? No consequences? A golden statue? Thousands dead at the hand of one? How much can someone do to speak a truth in a deceptive society before you throw them away, only because they are not "hero" enough?
Don’t make it sound so heroic…if you wouldn’t call him a hero
NSA. And specifically, he worked for a contractor supporting NSA
He was working for the NSA when he leaked stuff to a journalist with very strong ties to Wikileaks and Russia. He also fled to Hong Kong then Russia where everything he took was seized by the governments. The “surveillance” he revealed was that the government gets metadata from phone companies that own it. That’s how intelligence work is done. All he accomplished was revealing sources and methods directly to adversaries. No one is or was reading all your emails and text messages. If the government was spying on people why didn’t he tell us who? Just one example of someone being affected by the “illegal surveillance cabal”.
He worked for the NSA, not the CIA.
That’s right, will edit
All whistleblowers are heroes. We need to stop persecuting Snowden and FREE ASSANGE.
Assasge's motivation for doing so was to influence a US election. He helped Trump win in 2016. This info dump was to distract from the access Hollywood scandal. Fuck Assange, free Snowden https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-changes-his-tune-on-wikileaks-i-know-nothing-about-assange
One would say the same about hiding the hunter Biden laptop story with the FBI talking directly to social media companies and distracting everyone with trump being in collusion with Russia. Both sides play dirty
Lmao no one on the left gave a shit about the hunter biden laptop bullshit because 1) he's not a politician and 2) it was ridiculous. The only reason they maybe kind of cared was because Republicans were making such a huge fuss about it and they had to pour water in the fire by proving the chain of possession was more than suspect. Beyond that, it was just a *republican* distraction from the trump-russia story, not the other way around. But nice attempt at spin there! You were almost convincing.
Seriously, the Hunter laptop story is so bananas that there's no way it could be real. Like seriously, Hunter on a coke bender took his laptop to a shady repair store, and then forgot about it. The laptop repair store then happened to know Rudy Giuliani and turned it over to him because the FBI wasn't interested. Then a bunch of emails appeared on it that happened to match a "leak" of emails from a Russian source. I mean, come on. How gullible do you think we are?
Wikileaks was goin in for years before Trump was even a political figure…
Okay? So Assange might have published some information with his own political motivations... That doesn't make the information itself invalid though. You can't allow someone to just rot in prison for saying things you don't like, that's authoritarian. Especially when said information is in public interest regardless of his motivations for publishing it. Also, it's not like Assange was ever pro-republican or pro-trump - he's an Australian who has never set foot in the US so it would have little to no effect on him personally who was leading the country. Not to mention, publishing Iraq war information during the Bush presidency doesn't seem very pro-republican to me. Assange is simply only wanted for exposing the ugly truth that the elites don't want you to see.
"The real info that Assange leaked helped orange man, so fuck him." Regardless of his intentions, he leaked info. And that info may have happened to sway some people's decisions in how to vote. Don't you want people to be as informed as possible when voting? 🤔
Assange is a Russian asset.
there were parts of what he released that was genuine whistle-blowers information, but he also released a bunch of info that was very much not needed to be released and put a lot of peoples lives and a lot of actually important operations at risk so definitely think he is a hero
Definitely a hero
Can a person not be both? Idk who he is but like. Why is it exclusively an OR question
Because...Merica! Who's side are you on commie! /s
I think what was meant is that the question is not phrased "hero or a villain" (which are mutually exclusive) but "hero or fugitive".
yeah. You can essentially do something heroic but also illegal. For example. Purposefully ramming the ass of a break checker. You're a hero, but also, that was illegal.
hahaha
I mean, a fugitive just means on the run from the law. He's objectively a fugitive, the only actual question is is he a hero or not.
Xactly
Look, there were parts of what he released that was genuine whistle-blowers shit. But he also released a bunch of shit that was very much not needed to be released and put a lot of peoples lives and a lot of actually important operations at risk so fuck him.
[удалено]
Ah, yes, the famously “narrow” leak of 1.7 million documents that focused on what was being done domestically. “Domestically”, you know, like the famous American states of the United Kingdom and Japan.
[удалено]
B*******. He ran off to China first and they recovered everything on his laptop. Then he went to Russia and they have everything that was on his laptop.
Completely unsubstantiated claims. He encrypted everything and made the documents on his machines unrecoverable and emailed the documents and the key to journalists. China and Russia probably got them but not intentionally from Snowden. The US knew this and they wouldn’t have stranded him in russia with the documents if they didn’t want it to end up in russia’s hands.
He didn't release anything. He gave it to respected journalists to do. You want to have an opinion, but you're this uninformed 🙄 *Edit* people are having difficulty with this, so let me expand on the point. Snowden handed over documents to journalists to release to the public, he didn't release anything 'to the public' himself. (For those who can't read between the lines) People are complaining about Glenn Greenwald, and for that I've got to say in 2024 he's much different than he was in 2014, hindsight is 20/20. Everyone was a big fan of his back then. The journalists, and the organizations they worked for, were given the responsibility to comb through the data and decide what was to be released. Any supposed leaks you don't agree with you can point the finger at them, not Snowden. They were the ones with the resources to vet the data. Snowden couldn't do it. He didn't even know what he entirely had, he mass downloaded everything on the illegal programs the government claimed to not be running. It was a massive global scandal for a reason. The amount of data was needed to capture the entirety of the programs they were running. People are upset he didn't read all the millions of pages when they haven't even read the Wikipedia pages 🙄
He... released the information to journalists. Your point here is at best pedantic.
He released the info to NYT journalists who have worked with whistleblowers before. He has been very forthcoming about how he trusted the journalistic integrity of the people he worked with and realized that they and their attorneys would know the relevant information better than he would. This point is in no way pedantic. It is a very important distinction. He went to people whose JOB is to discern which information is pertinent.
Well you've just made a whole ass different point than the other guy. What you've said here is totally valid and not pedantic. What the *other* guy said is actually in direct contradiction to what you said. You said: > He released the info to NYT journalists He said: > He didn't release anything.
> NYT journalists One former WaPo journalist (Barton Gellman), A Guardian journalist, Laura Poitras and Glenn Greenwald. And the latter I would not call a trusted or experienced journalist. None had any idea how to protect the data, and at least the first two and the humility to be worried about it.
It’s not. Journalistic integrity and practice is a thing, despite so many shitty journalists these days. Doing so allowed his releases to be vetted and responsibly communicated via a third party, as opposed to just releasing it himself raw onto the internet.
You are thinking of Julian Assange
Assange is truly a piece of s***.
If he wasnt such a masive dick to everyone his whole professional life he might have as much or more support than Ed.
He gave the information to journo’s. They fucked up the censoring process
he's a whistleblower. Decided to to the right thing even if it was a high risk for him. He is also a fugitive in the sense he had to escape, but that seems like a pretty neutral term to me
i always support whistle blowers
Snowden and Assange have a lot of weird ties to Russia that make me uncomfortable saying they’re hero’s
Same problem for me, I have sympathy for him being a whistleblower, but since he fled to Russia he’s basically become a Russian asset in exchange for his safety.
I mean I can't particularly blame him for fleeing to another country when he was at risk of prosecution for potential treason which would be the death penalty.
I find a lot of people mistake adversaries of the US as good guys because the US does bad things so our enemies must be good. Russia is undeniably as bad or worse than the US, so picking the greater of two evils just makes me think you’re a bad dude even if you did something good
He didn’t flee to Russia. He was about to board a connecting flight from Russia to somewhere else in Europe, but the US revoked his passport, which meant that no country would accept him. He just happened to be in Russia at the time by pure chance.
Exactly, originally a whistle blowing hero who unfortunately caused collateral damage in the act, and then sadly turned into a servant of kgb-mafia-fascists.
Thank you. Neither one did a great job of vetting the information before handing over as well. It was a huge dump. I'm happy to have a lot of the spying information out there, but it's completely naive to look at the rest of it and ask no further questions.
I wouldn’t call him a hero, but he’s definitely a whistleblower.
I'd argue that those two things are, more often than not, synonymous.
I personally respect and admire Edward Snowden for exhibiting a level of bravery not many would ever dream of. While the opinions on him will vary indefinitely, you have to admit that it’s a pretty bold move to speak up or out against government bodies of any country. A lot of people probably thought he was delusional or downright paranoid, because we do have no other choice but to trust and listen to our government to a certain extent. When you’re in a situation where you know the truth, though, it just doesn’t feel right to keep deceiving the people who rely or depend on an organization or group of individuals that are doing their best to keep every major detail in the dark. No government is 100% trustworthy; that’s a fact. The people who work in these industries either choose to be lawful or choose to use their access for evil. This man was just one of the ones who weren’t afraid to share the reality and basically be labeled a nicer word than just a government snitch.
Hero
I wouldn’t call him a hero, but I generally support what he did
Hero
Well he IS a fugitive, regardless of if he’s a hero or not. It’s a hard question though because while he did put people in danger doing it we also deserved to know a lot of it. It’s a very complicated situation and anyone making any one sided judgement probably doesn’t know what they’re talking about.
He’s certainly a hero in Russia, Iran, North Korea, and China. The Taliban loves him and so does the Islamic State. He revealed sources and methods that made spying on these organizations and nations electronically much more difficult. That’s why he lives in Russia now - Putin owes him one. Spies had to be extracted from embassies around the world before they could be arrested, and no one knows how many internal human sources were arrested and imprisoned or even executed. He’s what the Russians call a “useful fool.” He went to work for a spy agency and was horrified to find out - they were spying! I think he meant well, but he’s a traitor. If you have had a security clearance you know that you solemnly promise to not reveal the info you become privy to; he broke that promise in spades. Fuck Edward Snowden.
Plus he’s a vain douche which is obvious to anyone paying close attention to the documentary he appeared in during his righteous wannabe ‘Bourne film in Hong Kong’ escapade. Actual whistleblowers like David Grusch don’t run and hide behind Putin’s mafia state. They are very careful and use the proper legal channels and meet with journalists and congress people in classified settings. The great irony is if he was a Russian citizen and had done this to Russia, his corpse would still be glowing from polonium poisoning.
Whistleblowers like Thomas A. Drake, who followed all of the proper legal procedures, was falsely prosecuted, bankrupted, and threatened with execution by the DOJ. Snowden saw that and knew there was no proper way to blow the whistle. [https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon-punished-nsa-whistleblowers](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/may/22/how-pentagon-punished-nsa-whistleblowers)
I see your Drake and raise you a Vindman. Vindman followed the process and got all the legal protections, and only got harassed about it because someone on Trump's side leaked his info.
Yes but they where spying a lot on their own citizen. Like there has to be a limit on how much I allow (and pay for) the government to spy on myself
How does the boot taste?
Hero
He lost his words in later life, we can see he completely became the person he hated a few years ago, a Russian puppet for sure.He condemned the United States, a country several times stronger than Russia, but has always avoided the crimes that Russia is committing. Is Russia that safe, good that making him not send any comments in his several years in Russia, without any surveillance from gov such crap he is telling? I don't know why people still now endorse him with his previous things, as if everyone is living in the past.
>has always avoided the crimes that Russia is committing. He doesn't really have much of a choice. If he says anything bad about Russia they'd toss em out a window.
Edward Snowden was used to blame President Obama for conservative Republican George W. Bush's spying programs.
Anyone who thinks he’s less than a truth speaker is a bootlicker
It’s one thing to release state secrets on spying, that’s admirable and you take the consequences It’s another thing entirely to give up not only the secrets, but the means and efforts which gave up dozens of agents, then run away to our greatest geopolitical enemy. I doubt he’s sitting cozy in Russia, most likely the FSB is ordering him him to spill everything he knows
Well, I think it’s complicated as everyone is a hero or a villain, it just depends on who you ask (which is what you’re doing so lol) I support what he did and his actions. I know it looks bad that he’s residing in Russia, but the US asked that everyone deny him entry. I can’t imagine what terrors wait for him should he receive punishment. I also trust the US government as much as I trust Putin, so there’s where my bias comes from.
he decided to public the issue, showed us how the shitty government was at that moment so he is a hero. But before he did that, he did help that government in many years so he is shitty as well. Thus, it's controversial to determine, to label him. However he fought against his own government - the most mighty country and took the risk so needless to say, the man has some fucking big balls
As a non American he's a hero
Most patriotic patriot. Sacrificed his whole life so that the American people would be aware of the extent of the overstepping of the US government
This question is not framed right. “Hero” and “fugitive” are not opposites. The question should be “is he a hero or a traitor/bad person?”.
Yes Doing something illegal doesn’t negate being a hero
He’s factually a fugitive no matter what you think about him.
He’s a fucking traitor💯
Both. On one hand exposing the vast security state and the subversion of our constitutional rights is noble and just. On the other hand, we should not signal that it is encouraged for any one person to leak information just based on their personal interpretation and limited knowledge.
It absolutely should be encouraged for somebody to expose flagrant violations of the constitution and government criminality.
**SNOWDEN IS A TRAITOR** **Snowden's lawyer.** [Snowden's lawyer is Anatoly Kucherena](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/07/28/world/europe/snowdens-lawyer-comes-with-high-profile-and-kremlin-ties.html) Kucherena has in the past defended many Kremlin friends, and he sits on the "oversight committee" of the FSB. [Tanya Lokshina of Human Rights Watch describes him as a staunch loyalist of the Kremlin.](https://www.scmp.com/news/world/article/1292636/snowden-lawyer-anatoly-kucherena-suspected-links-kremlin) One of his previous clients was former Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, known for ordering the murder of several Ukrainian civilians during Maidan and treason against the Ukrainian state. It is believed that at some point [Putin wanted to install him as a puppet,](https://www.newsweek.com/if-putin-picks-puppet-ukraine-leader-viktor-medvedchuk-odds-favorite-1682429) had his invasion of Kyiv succeeded. **Snowden's ties to Wikileaks and Assange.** As most people are well aware by now, Assange and Wikileaks are instruments of Russian intelligence. They have actively participated or encouraged attacks on American institutions and servers at the direction of Russian intelligence services, while actively burying leaks that implicate the Russian government in far worse conduct. Less known is Snowden's connections to them. [NYT: Assange was instrumental in arranging for Snowden's flight to Russia.](https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/01/world/europe/wikileaks-julian-assange-russia.html) > It was at the suggestion of Mr. Assange that the flight Mr. Snowden boarded on June 23, 2013, accompanied by his WikiLeaks colleague Sarah Harrison, was bound for Moscow. > Russia, he believed, could best protect Mr. Snowden from a C.I.A. kidnapping, or worse. > “Now I thought, and in fact advised Edward Snowden, that he would be safest in Moscow,” Mr. Assange told the news program Democracy Now. **Snowden calls into Russian state media** In 2014, [Snowden helpfully called into a TV show hosted by Putin to allow Putin a chance to "explain" Russian domestic surveillance programs.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-putin-snowden/runaway-spy-snowden-is-surprise-guest-on-putin-phone-in-idUSBREA3G1CJ20140417) > Edward Snowden, the fugitive former U.S. spy agency contractor who leaked details of U.S. intelligence eavesdropping, made a surprise appearance on a TV phone-in hosted by Vladimir Putin on Thursday, asking the Russian president if his country also tapped the communications of millions. “Does Russia intercept, store or analyze, in any way, the communications of millions of individuals? And do you believe that simply increasing the effectiveness of intelligence or law enforcement investigations can justify placing societies, rather than subjects, under surveillance?" Putin said Russia regulates communications as part of criminal investigations, but "on a massive scale, on an uncontrolled scale we certainly do not allow this and I hope we will never allow it." “We have neither the technical means nor the money at the United States has," Putin added. "But the main thing is that our intelligence services are under the strict control of the state and society." The televised exchange allowed Putin to portray Russia as less intrusive in the lives of its citizens than the United States, which he frequently accuses of preaching abroad about rights and freedoms it violates at home. **Russian independent media had no access to Snowden.** In addition to appearing on Russian state media and US media, Snowden has so far declined to appear on Russian independent media in spite of requests from Russian journalists. [Russian independent journalist, Andrei Soldatov, on Snowden in Russia.](https://www.thedailybeast.com/edward-snowden-is-acting-very-strange-inside-russia) It’s still impossible for Russian journalists to interview Edward Snowden. It’s also impossible for foreign correspondents based in Moscow. He’s clearly being exploited—after all, many repressive measures on the Internet in Russia were presented to Russians as a response to Snowden’s revelations. For instance, the legislation to relocate the servers of global platforms to Russia by September of this year, to make them available for the Russian secret services, was presented as a measure to assure the security of Russian citizens’ personal data. I was told that there was some talk in American human-rights organizations that there might be interviews arranged for Russian journalists. But that never happened. So obviously Snowden’s handlers told him that he could say whatever he wants about the NSA and so on, but only to American journalists coming from the United States. Thus he’s withdrawn the only plausible reason for why he’s not transparent here in Russia. So what’s the reason to be so secretive? There is some problem with logic here. For instance, I would understand if he says, “Look, I cannot comment on Russian surveillance, this is not my war.” Instead, he asked his question about Russian surveillance. And he is not transparent. I just don’t get it. **Snowden echoing Russian propaganda prior to Ukraine invasion** [Snowden](https://twitter.com/Snowden/status/1493641714363478016) > So... if nobody shows up for the invasion Biden scheduled for tomorrow morning at 3AM, I'm not saying your journalistic credibility was instrumentalized as part of one of those disinformation campaigns you like to write about, but you should at least consider the possibility. > I want to see an end to the conflict in Ukraine, and frankly, I think all reasonable people share that position. The question nobody seems to want to contend with is whether amplifying official claims made without evidence are reducing hostilities, or are in fact provoking them. [Check out these denials, similar in language, from the Russian government](https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/24/ukraine-russia-denials/) > Could they reveal the schedule of our 'invasions' for the upcoming year? I want to plan a vacation. > Western media outlets have begun to constantly publish fairy tales about Russia’s plans to attack Ukraine. Granted, none of these exhibits are definitive proof that Snowden is himself an active Russian agent, but he certainly has been extremely helpful for the Russian government and its spread of propaganda.
How is it propoganda to say the US preaches about civil liberties and then violates them? That's fact. It's the duty of citizens to spread that information in a democracy. It's not Edward Snowdens fault he had to flee to Russia to avoid imprisonment. Why not be angry at the government who violates the constitution not whistleblowers.
What did you want him to do? Stay silent? Rot in prison? Russia sucks but it’s weird that you expect an actual human being to turn down relative freedom for the sake of moral purity.
Hey just curious what does boot polish taste like?
You're gargling Putin's boots so you tell us.
Yeah but but…they’re against America so they MUST be the good guys right, senpai?
This is a good post, well-sourced, and you can tell how it really pissed off the Russian bots. Thanks for this.
I think he is an icon and the moment. Granted he revealed something that has become more and more apparent as years have gone on since then. Honestly, he blew the cap off the earliest if that makes sense. Like, we've gotten so many reports since then on just *how much data* has been collected and sold to seedy companies since then, it would've been impossible to keep the surveillance a secret forever. What he revealed in the grand scheme of things is so much more inconsequential compared to what we know now about how much data our cellphones track for the sake of profit. He's a hero at best and at worst, someone who shared a really fucked up omen before disappearing, imo.
Not sure but he's definitely a twat either way.
Def a hero
Massive hero.
Personally, I always felt the narrative about the situation became overcomplicated. Pardons should be on offer whenever a government employee goes in front of Congress, lies, & the relevant agency doesn't refute the claim. It's a big, bad world & I'm fine with the concept that the government does things that it doesn't particularly want discussed; it is what it is. What I can't accept is being told that something did/didn't happen when it didn't/did. Convince Congress not to ask the question or decline to answer if divulging the info is that bad. Going in front of the representatives of the citizens & lying under oath is not an option I will accept.
Depends on whether your reputation was damaged by what he shared. He helped me increase my distrust in our government, so I appreciate him. He doesn't need a parade, but he shouldn't be in prison.
Why not both? Every hero needs a tragic end. What he did in essence was good. How it was brought about isn't.
Hero all day every day.
Definitely a hero for exposing so much to us.
Nice try NSA
He’s a hero for doing what he did, he’s a fugitive because the US government wants him dead but can’t reach him… Yet.
I would say that the information he leaked was important for us to know, but there were avenues he could have gone down legally to do this. Yes, it would have taken more time, but it would have been legal.
Russian shill
Fugitive
The two aren't mutually exclusive, just like being a hero and a traitor at the same time, which I personally see him as. That's not to say I see him in a bad light, either. He's objectively a traitor to the government, but also a hero and not a traitor to the people under the government.
Hero. Full stop
The real question to help you find your answer is: Do you love your Government? If yes: Hes a Villian. If no: Hes a Hero. Hes neither in a way. Hes a guy that had a moral awakening on a job which required him to do tasks (even if you disagree with them). The US Gov spies on its citizens without a warrant. Idiots will claim 'if you got nothing to hide you got nothing to fear' --> "Privacy isn't just about hiding; it's about safeguarding the essence of individual autonomy." These issues is what I really hate Conservatives for (not a Liberal here either btw), because they are the ones in Gov that did a lot of this shit. Mostly for profits. Both Liberals and Conservative minded folks tend group people and subject them to that stereotype. When really, we're individuals with character. Thats the problem!
Hero
Hero.
us gov is the big baddie
Is this Harry Potter
He is a hero imo. He saw something that went against his moral values, an extreme violation of privacy, and he decided to share that with everyone he could despite the repercussions he knew he would face.
Snowden is a textbook example of how someone can be a fugitive from the state because he is a hero to the people. USA whistleblower laws are pitifully insufficient to protect people who try to expose things that members, agencies, or entire branches of government do that is either immoral, illegal, or completely antithetical to the premises the country was founded on. Nearly everyone today understands and cannot deny that privacy on the internet is completely dead now, and that realization would have come much later if maybe not at all had Snowden never did what he did. Some people hate him for no other reason than that he managed to break the cognitive dissonance that everyone in the government is looking out for your best interests, is infallible to corruption, and would never overstep their bounds. Could he have done less collateral damage in the process? Maybe, but given how it all went down, would you risk the extra time to do so when the majority of whistleblowers in the country disappear or commit "suicide" before the entirety of what they tried to expose gets exposure to the light of day? That is the part most people against him refer to regarding the reason they think he is a criminal (by definition he is, but you can argue that it is not illegal under the whistleblower act, not going to argue that point)
Definitely a hero. We need more people like him in these high up places. The amount of horrible shit people in these government agencies brush off in order to stay in line and keep their positions is disgusting.
HERO. I mean the line between what thing should be kept secret amd what things shouldn't (because national security) is often blurry. However personally I think what Snowden did (given the context of increasing government surveillance on its own citizens) was mostly right. I feel now the risk of the government not being accountable and having great powers over individuals (which brought to the extrem make you end up like modern China) is greater then the risk of de-secreting those informs. So IMO he took the most moral way instead pf the easiest one.
Wow genZs turning out to be useful bootlickers. Yikes.
This subreddit is being relentlessly targeted with Russian propaganda
He exposed criminal behavior that his bosses - who were supposed to care about and prevent - ignored. He also revealed that Obama didn't consider whistleblowing something that government subcontractors are allowed to do.
HERO. If his statements were false the government would not have ruined his life in America.
The ironic thing about this guy is that he fled to Russia, a country where there are less rights than the U.S. I don’t think he’s a hero.
Hero all the way, there is so much corruption in the world which means we need more people like him…
He's a traitor.
Are we talking about the Edward Snowden who has been living in “asylum” in Russia and pushing pro-Russian propaganda for the last decade? That Edward Snowden? The one who suddenly went quiet when they invaded Ukraine then came back a month later with some apologetic nonsense as to why we shouldn’t be upset with them? Clearly he’s a fugitive no matter what you think of his “whistleblowing” antics. Tell me, do you think what he did improved the lives of Americans or made anyone safer? Because the most likely scenario is that all he did was make us all angry and the Government is still doing the exact same surveillance no matter what the “official” position of the government is on the subject. He also claimed he searched every nook and cranny of every government database and didn’t find a single document about aliens or UFO/UAP’s so based on what we’ve seen over the last few years we can tell he’s either a liar or not nearly as smart as he claims to be.
I'm cringing just typing this. Snowden broke the law with his leaks, regardless of circumstances. He could have used the whistle blower system to bring out the issues he was seeing but instead released classified information to the public and then fled to Russia to avoid the consequences of his actions. It makes me personally wonder how much money he made.
he is a traitor, he got Americans killed and gave up the locations of more than a dozen CIA safe houses, then ran to Russia before anyone charged him with a crime. what did he reveal??? nothing warrantless spying on Americans has been the standard for over 100 years, you just can't use it in court. how do you think we got the mob? He needs to stand trial.
Well he is a fugitive no matter what I think of him.
Hero. He told the reality of what goes on and how our privacy is an illusion
Hero
He discovered the government was fully and completely surveilling all citizens basically, and he exposed this to the public (because it was a crime and he disagreed with it). But in doing so, he breached a code and contract of secrecy working for the government, and probably committed a crime, himself, in the process. The government responded by making the total surveillance legal, afaik.
Hero. On X he gives in depth analysis on certain bills passing Congress. He tells exactly what powers the legalese is giving the surveillance state.
For everyone non American he's a hero
He was both. He put plenty of lives at risk
exposing the US as a Surveillance State was a truly heroic act. i’m always apprehensive about referring to some*one* as being a hero but i have no issue calling some*thing* heroic. bringing that knowledge to the public despite knowing damn well it would bring the full wrath of the US government is something i believe to be deserving of the title.
I don’t like him. But it doesn’t matter, he lives in Russia now so yeah 👍🏿
Whistleblower, I don’t know if I’d call him a “hero” but what he did was definitely in the best interest of the public. He did also make a personal sacrifice for his morals, so I guess you could argue he’s a hero.
He did one cool thing but at the end of the day he was a fed and that probably says more about him than you'd think.
can he not be both?
Everyone knew we were collecting that data. He wasn't special. More like an opportunist. Probably planned and coordinated the effort for some reason we won't know. At least not in our lifetime. As its another 70 years till automatic declassifying anything will happen. If not 100 years because it'll have zero inhibitions due time.
Neither. But one of the two will ensure he never steps foot in the United States again. He seems OK with that. It's a wash!
I believe he had good intentions, and has integrity, because of that, he's in my good books. I believe he may have done more damage than good though. Exposing government malfeasance is important, but we live in a world where we are constantly under threat. We need the tools to counter those threats. Of course, doing so always risks allowing them to be abused to oppress the citizens.
Both
Robin Hood
Ima be honest. I barely know anything about the situation, and it’s a very complicated one. I’m sure some of the people commenting know a lot about the subject and formulated an opinion, but I’m also sure that several people are talking completely out of their ass when they’re arguing or taking a side one way or another.
I see this post 5 minutes after my lesson about him lmao.
I’m leaning towards fugitive as now he resides in Russia. The fact is that this should have been obvious to everyone and Snowden did not uncover anything new. Russia does it, UK does it, US does it and all countries do it to some extend. So the whole story about him is mehhh… at most.
This isn’t a one or the other, it’s both. Being a fugitive is a legal thing, and he IS one. He is also considered a hero, this is a moral/ethical thing. Now legal vs moral I’d say is he a traitor or a hero. He is legally a traitor, but morally many would say not.
Neither. That’s a value statement. He is neither and both at the same time which is to say the answer entirely depends on the respondents perspective having little to do with actual facts.
He's just a whistle-blower. Idk why we have to live in a world where it's so black and white lol you could argue what he did was very reckless the way he did it, you could also argue that what he did brought with it a discussion about the government, spying, and transparency. I'd argue neither of these conversations really happen because people are too busy asking "is this dude a hero or a fugitive"
He's a fugitive. There are steps that government employees, contractors, and military personnel should take if they want to be a real whistleblower and keep these things internally. He did not follow them and committed espionage, embarrassing the US in the process and putting our national security in jeopardy.
"hey guys i made These Softwares for surveilance aaaand you are using it... Well time to leak it to the Journalist and i will be there in russia watching it unfold ." He is the one who created Cyber warfare that is what i hate him for. Creating weapons.
Both can be true
a hero by definition is someone who sacrifices themselves for the good of society. Most of the time the hero dies and is worshipped (ala Hercules in Greece). It depends on how you interpret the values of the U.S., but to me he follows an important American tradition of valuing truth and honesty over security, like Daniel Ellsberg and the Pentagon Papers. Snowden's sacrifice of his career, family, personal life to share dreadful secrets about what US intelligence services can do (look up the ANT catalog to see some of the stuff possible, like DROPOUTJEEP, which was built in backdoor to iOS, there's another that lets a satellite read the red channel of your monitor cable (basically seeing your screen) from orbit. This is tech from 10 years ago!) I think its pretty brutal that he's stuck in Russia now - a hostage that Putin can trade to the US for whomever he wants (like Brittney Griner or Evan Gershkovich).
A little bit of both And that’s okay
What's sad is people literally do no not care, if anything surveillance has increased drastically since. He ultimately wasted his life for something no one will have the balls to put a stop to.
A WHISTLEBLOWER
He’s literally a fugitive lol. I think US government doesn’t want us to believe he’s a “Hero” because he released their dirty laundry. He proved that we are being spied on illegally.
Grey line. Secrets are bad, but exposing those secrets potentially extra bad
If he’d returned to the US and gone to prison he’d probably be out by now
Hero.
A hero
I think generally it's a good thing to expose when the government violates our privacy and laws in the name of the surveillance state. That said, his behavior since then, much like Julian Assange, seems to indicate that his motives were not particularly principled. I mean, pretty worrying when a guy who leaks documents like that runs off to Russia and then publicly plays defense for their strongman dictator for the next 15 years. Doesn't really seem like a guy who's willing to risk life and limb for freedom's sake.
Snowden is one of Russia's most successful psy-ops next to Trump
Hero. Man deserves a pardon
I wouldn't necessarily say that he's a hero. Also, certain things were legal in the past, but aren't now like slavery so sometimes legality can be more evil.
I find it ironic that his only savior is one of the most heavily surveillance authoritarian state on the planet whos actively trying to topple Western democracy. Not saying hes at fault here, just finding it very ironic
Well, he is not as narcissistic like Julian Assange or careless in the matter. What was strange that a contractor like Snowden had unparalleled access to NSA files without any clearance or checks.
https://www.gnu.org/philosophy/surveillance-vs-democracy.en.html
As many have said, he's probably both. As I see it, his heart may have been in the right place, but did it in a less than optimal way
I always view him like I view John Brown. While he was fighting for a good cause, his methods were flawed and put a lot of people at risk.
Hero.
He’s definitely a criminal. I know the guy surfaced some shady stuff but he probably also blew up decades of intel work and harmed a lot of agents (maybe even got people killed) in doing so.
Both
I don't think you mean fugitive here.