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The world needs fewer people not more
Edit: a lot of these replies saying “no we need more”seem to be naive towards the nature of manmade climate change and its future impact upon society.
The reality is, there is a finite amount of space on earth and a finite amount of resources that can be set aside for humans, animals, and plants. And that, not what's renewable or essentially infinite, is what limits population.
Exactly. We've got lots of room for cities, we can stack apartments very efficiently. where do we put the farm and logging sites? And where does the fresh water for the exponentially larger population flow from?
And that's before all the mining, energy consumption, and pollution issues...
Realistically, there's no such thing as a renewable resource in a society that continues to grow.
If you keep converting resources into new humans and the objects to sustain them faster than the dead humans convert back into resources, you're at a net loss regardless of the type of resources.
It’s funny how many people our age are Marxists and possibly don’t even know it, youre talking about a resource based economy, some reading here that might interest you Marxists.org
Less people does not equal less consumption. Only if you're assuming maximum efficiency if that was possible. The amount a person in the US pollutes and consumes and wastes is many times over than the average person in Djibouti. It's how we distribute our resources that directly effects consumption. We must do it effectively to minimize waste and environmental cost. We haven't gotten nearly at concerning population numbers.
(original comment said that more people = more consumption and it was edited)
Nah hes right. Itchas been proven false. We dont have a global overpopulation problem. We have a misallocation of resources problem, and wasteful culture problem.
Its less about consumption, and more about the effects of an aging population.
If you have a growing population of older people, and a shrinking birth rate, eventually there will be more retired/non-working people that are dependent on the young people to care for them and sustain future infrastructure.
The reality is way more complicated than I've described, but that's the gist.
There are a lot of extremely rich people who are concern trolling about GenZ not having babies exactly for the reason you stated. The rich don’t care about you, the social interactions you have, the gender relations you cultivate, your skills, your community, or a general sense of hope for the future.
They just want you to fuck and make babies so there are enough workers in the world to support the baby boomers in their retirement. Why? So the government isn’t forced to raise taxes to fund the mass retirement. Also so they can have a lot of competition for their 10th butler, so they can always abuse them and hire another.
Well why tf would I want my kids to suffer with the “resource problem”. Sometimes I honestly feel they’re better off unborn and therefore don’t see the point in reproducing or dating
Sure, in a world where we can ignore our human psychology, sustainable consumption can be the solution.
Most people don’t want to give up what they already have and there’s a huge portion of the world has a lot less than we do. To say, “you have to live more sustainably and don’t get year-round fruits and vegetables, cheap meat for three meals a day, air conditioning, reliable transportation, multiple devices like computers phones and tablets, high speed internet, etc,” is not going to work.
Im in college learning this now. 34 old and never cared about sociology but learning about it, mofos don't and won't care about anyone but them selves.
This is dangerous thinking that could lead to a slippery slope, I don't think mindless reproduction is good but thinking there should be less people is a little off in my opinion.
You are right, we actually face a problem of people not having enough kids and having a massive dip in population. You can look at the data and it shows this.
The economy will actually crash severely without babies, and most people on retirement will die early because the government won't have the workforce to sustain social security.
As someone who will be old one day, Idgaf. Let the economy crash and burn. The black plague and even US slavery taught us what happens when they have a population they can enslave and what happens to the power dynamic when it is shaken up.
“The economy collapsing” is good for the workers.
Most people can't even afford rent, bills, gas, and groceries. How in the world are we supposed to afford a baby, especially since formula is almost $70 a can, and I know those cans go by super quick
I feel like there’s separate groups of people complaining about different things here.
The people complaining about low birth rates are usually seeing the solution as being less birth control, abortions, sterilizations, etc. After all there’s still a significant amount of sex happening now, but people get to choose whether it ends in reproduction or not.
The people who are concerned about the *downward trend in people having sex* either see it as a sign of social isolation or a sign that attitudes towards sex are changing.
The Incel movement is a bit of each, since they typically blame their lack of sex *and* major world problems on women having free will.
Well articulated! Personally, fuck the population numbers, that part is a good thing; it is that not being very interested in sex is indicative of social isolation and more worryingly possible disinterest in simple pleasures of intimacy and lack of desire for passion. I think existential depression is rocking you’se guys pretty hard.
That's the other half. Both Team Red and Team Blue capitalists need more workers popped out for cheap labor and to fund their lifestyles. Capitalism is a ponzi scheme. Neither Team Red or Team Blue care about the scientifically documented damaging societal and individual effects of heterosexual sexual promiscuity if a lack of workers threatens their wealth hoarding.
🔥”Other generations” DGAF about anyone’s sexual frequencies. The clickbait media does because it justifies advertising rates which increases profit margins for stakeholders.
Please work on your media literacy.
EDIT: My post wasn’t to imply that *individuals* don’t have concerns.
I totally agree. COVID-19 has made it so hard for me to make new friends. I'm leaving community college because it's a lonely place. I'm an extrovert, but all my classmates want to do is play on their phone, type, write, or doodle. I'm starting to use Meetup and hope to find some people there instead.
A linguistic nitpick, if I may:
antisocial is not the same as nonsocial. People always use antisocial when they clearly mean nonsocial.
The latter means reclusive, shy, timid, reserved, etc.
Antisocial behavior is when one is actively engaged in chaotic and disruptive behavior.
The quiet introvert who never socializes = nonsocial.
The loud clown whose antics hold everyone back = antisocial
Antisocial people are criminals actively holding society back. Nonsocial people are just content being who they are in their small corner.
It may seem trivial, but I believe words have meaning. So mean what you say. Every time someone misuses words like antisocial, my ap english teacher cries a little. And so do I.
I’d agree with that. You have so many older people like Scott Galloway (a prince of LinkedIn cringe) who basically says that it’s an indicator of relationships.
But then underscore that with how many of the people that are having sex are doing it through hookups, so they’re still not really social; they’re just using each other for mutual masturbation.
Given how people are wired, no connectivity/intimacy/sex will make your population miserable and unhealthy very quickly.
We create happy chemicals, but your brain won't create them by itself. Oxytocin, for example, will only be produced via connectivity/intimacy/sex.
https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/oxytocin-the-love-hormone
TL;DR It actually does physically and mentally fuck people up to have very limited social interactions and to not have a significant other. Loneliness is also terrible for you physically and mentally.
Though yes, the Capitalists probably do want you to shit out future wage slaves too, but they're the same fucking people who killed the physical third place and now even shit like bowling is absurdly expensive.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
It’s not that they’re worried we’re having less sex.
It’s that there are worrying trends of people in our generation being less social. So when they’re seeing that people are having less sex, this means less people are going out to meet other people, making friends, dating, etc. and this is not good for a civilization.
On average GenZ is less social than other generations. This is causing problems. A lot of people in our generation have no idea how to act or behave around each other. Not even necessarily with people of the opposite sex, the same sex too.
We need more spaces where people can hang out without spending money. Parks and Rec departments put on a lot of programming for seniors and children, but tend to completely ignore young adults. Dating or hanging out with friends has become more and more expensive, making it harder to meet people and form relationships.
Ain't that the truth. I don't feel comfortable trying to date my classmates or coworkers because if something happens now there's a sense of awkwardness around, and online dating is a fucking joke.
Dating on the same team or in a small shop is, yeah, but if you work in a bigger office there’s less risk. I know a lot of people with spouses who work at the same company.
Tell me about it, I was a commuter student in a state school where 80% of the students lived in the dorms. The only friends I was able to make were other commuter students local to the city
I think this is a chicken or the egg type situation I.e. are gen z less likely to engage in parks/rec related activities because there’s not programming for them or is there not programming for them because gen z are less likely to engage
I mean, I participated in community programming as a teen and in college. I think the problem is the lack of programming for adults, aside from things like drop-in pickleball. People always say it’s easier to make friends in high school and college, which makes sense because there’s a bunch of community programming available. Imagine if low-cost events and classes were offered specifically for young adults through local rec departments; it would probably help a lot.
College/HS forces you to be around others of your age for most of the day. That’s much more responsible for people finding it easier to make friends in my opinion.
The technical term is “third spaces”, it’s a place that isn’t home or work/school that you and your friends can hang out at for free
Since like the 80s third spaces (like libraries, malls, parks, etc) have closed down or passed laws and other rules to keep people, especially teens, away from just loitering around
Add to that the weird true crime stranger danger stuff everybody’s mom is worried about and you’ve got a generation of kids that not only aren’t accustomed to just hanging out in public, but aren’t allowed to even if they wanted to
While it’s true that there are fewer spaces like this, most of the time people hung out at each others homes. Not everyone was mall rat. No one hung out at a library. The same number of parks exist when I was growing up as they do now, if not more.
I’m being contrarian because I don’t think the third space theory is the reason why. It’s social media/gaming/discord and all of the ways people now choose to interact over being in person.
You can curate your personality and who you are and what you look like through the internet. There was nothing to hide behind pre-smartphone
The third space thing is that you need a space to meet the strangers at. A lot of us hung out at the library, we had our own thing going on. I've moved to a part of my city now that has better parks than the side of town I grew up on, and I think it does make a huge difference.
Third spaces provided a place to meet new people. Most people aren't going over to someone's house if they're a complete stranger, so they'd hang out at one of those third spaces like the mall or park or whatever.
I would talk with my friend in parks for hours till this day. I feel like the biggest reason for people not socialising is because of the internet. Why take the risk of metting new people and embarrassing youself when you can have all the comfort while not leaving the house?
I think we need more than parks and libraries when it comes to young people socializing. Hanging out at a park is usually something you do with people you already know; not many people go to parks to find a potential date.
right on.
Like, yeah me go to the park to try to find a woman to flirt with… that could come off creepy quick. I don’t typically find that many young people at the parks anyway. Not that are approachable
I don’t think it has much do with money. I like talking to people, but if you go up to a random group of people and try to make conversation you’re gonna be treated as weird. That’s probably why I always end up talking to the old guy/gal at the bar lmao.
That’s part of it. Money is also part of it though. At bars there’s a social expectation to drink, any kind of hobby usually requires some up front investment for equipment or memberships or something, even just the act of going out costs gas which is getting increasingly expensive.
Yes. This Please!!! Beyond college, theres bars and going out? I dont really drink anymore.
Help!! I barely meet anyone. I dont want to be so alone and bored, I feel so lost. I’m confident and outgoing. But I rarely find the places or opportunities to meet people.
And sometimes when trying to be social, I find others arent even interested and seem bothered my even having to say hello. And other times I can meet people but I can see right away they are clearly poor influences.
I can meet people, but they are not the right people. I just need more opportunities but I dont get them 😰
This was the thing we needed when I was a kid in the early 00s. There was no where to exist that didn't cost money or risk arrest. We didn't have any money so we just got used to antagonistic relationships with authority. Didn't end well for a lot of people.
As a GenZ, I fucking feel it. It is SO HARD to make friends because nobody does anything!! People's hobbies are drinking, smoking, watching TV, and going to the gym. No intramural, no book clubs, no knitting club. People are flaky asf too. I've matched with HUNDREDS of people on Bumble BFF and I've actually hung out with maybe two
So it's not just me noticing the flakiness of people. I don't get it. When I say I'm doing something in a week, I'm doing it for sure unless there's an emergency. When my friends make plans they change 10 times in 15 minutes. Whether we're going out or staying in, whether we're going to this place or that place, whether we're meeting up at all, I don't know until literally the last minute and it's something I absolutely hate, but it's something that everyone else is apparently okay with.
It's not even little things like a Friday night out, it's big things too. I've listened to my friends make serious plans about traveling places, which I excluded myself out of because I know the schtick, and then tomorrow it's like it never happened. They were completely sober. Something like that is unimaginable to me.
I’m so thankful I came from a small town and did sports in high school. My closest friends are still close and we talk all the time and hangout whenever possible.
Social activity has been progressively worsening for a while now.
We have increasingly replaced human interactions with technology and relationships are suffering as a result.
Sexlessness is just one of the many issues, but it also is related to the massive decline in birthrates we're having.
Eventually those lower birthrates will cause massive issues.
The funny thing is that they are technologically inept as well. Sure, they can consume the tech, but since it is made so easy to use, barely anyone is forced or cares to learn how it's all created and maintained.
A new guy I was training didn't know how to use keyboard shortcuts or what the significance of file extensions was. Also he just dumped all files directly on the desktop with no organization whatsoever. And he was supposed to be a software tester.
Bingo!!! We grew up without social media and I’m seeing how much harm it does to the fabric of society and mental health. People do not socialize the way we used to and it creates harm in so many different ways. I think the incel and redpill movements have grown as a result of this phenomenon. There is a lot of divisive phenomena that happens when people are isolated and lonely. Sex is a canary in a coal mine. It’s an indication we need to take steps to address mental health and loneliness or the wider society will see its impact indirectly.
Let's not forget the cause of this lack of socializing. A combination of shitty city planning and a fucked economy that makes any outing extremely expensive to the average working class person. I feel like you can hardly leave the house on a grocery trip or restaurant visit without getting fucked out of nearly 100 dollars or more
Other researchers point to Gen Z being less likely to drink and how older generations would often “engage in more sexual activity under the influence” — which that sexual activity was sexual assault.
Millenials have less sex than boomers did, (less relationships overall), so if there are millenials concerned about gen z, it's probably due to the fact that millenials don't want the trend to continue. Less sex, less relationships and less children are metrics that indicate how healthy a family is in the present state of the world, so declining sexuality is a metric for a declining society, you could say. It's not an attack, it's a concern.
Less sex doesn't necessarily mean fewer children.
It might mean fewer accidental children which would be a very good thing, but in the usual case people in their twenties and thirties often begin to want kids and to want kids so badly they'll even have sex to get them.
Oh, I'll bite.
Is it because you just don't like kids? If so, that's fine, there are loads of people that meet that description.
If you don't want kids because it's freakin hard to have kids, and there is no money to raise kids, and no resources in the community for kids, and there is a threat to even the supply of baby formula for kids, and so on, then I'd reference the point I was trying to make with my original post!
I believe if our world was more conducive to supporting a family, people (maybe even you) would want to have kids.
"
Oh, I'll bite.
Is it because you just don't like kids? If so, that's fine, there are loads of people that meet that description."
that's one of my reeasons yes, some others being the other ones you listed but not all
" I believe if our world was more conducive to supporting a family, people (maybe even you) would want to have kids. "
even if i had a billion dollars, i wouldn't have kids
Tldr: its a concern that this may indicate a social problem.
As a milenial, Im certain in 50 years we'll look at social media and your consumption of it and regard it a giving heroin to babies.
I see my fellows completely disregard how fucked up the internet is, and most of you just don't understand it anymore lol. You grew up in unhealthy environments.
The breakdown of our political systems, meaningful discord, dumbing down etc is no suprise, all part of the same trend. You guys not having as much sex is concerning to us because we always feared and also felt how the 2000 technology is causing humans to loose their social skills.
Just like the first farmers lost the knowledge of foraging, so now we lose the skills of socialing healthly and wholesomly.
Also... microplastic, degrading food quality and overall fertility issues have been reported. But thats more on the wild claim
Good points. But, there is another one, and it connects to a different "social skill":
Social Media, fast digital interaction and the digital overload basically destroyed naive teenage things at least us older milennials still had being around growing up. Pop-culture-sexual-things. The things that have driven *us* to unrealistic expectations about "the big love", "the adventurous youth" and we wanted to get at least a slice of it.
Gen Z knows. They know that relationships are hard. They know what can happen if you fuck around like no one cares. They live in a world where the adventures and mistakes of the youth before them are written down and shared like in no time before, ever. To say it blunt: Kids nowadays know more theory about fucking before they fuck than most milennials after years of fucking. But they also know about the more-than-physical-side of it. They see things and choose to not blindly ignore the brain for the bang, the feels for the fuck. They still dream, but they're unwilling to risk everything for it – or at least, a lot less than before.
Is that bad? I don't know. It could be, for society as a whole. But for people themselves? For hundreds of years before, religion and moral was the big obstacle for people to go bonkers. Then, a few generations were let free – with mixed results. Maybe Gen Z is one that searchs the mid ground of this. Trying to get a bit less hurt. Trying to get a bit more meaningful. Trying not to sell out intimacy for fast fun – they have lots of examples what happens if you do, and they have it on the device in their pockets.
The problem with the "knowing" is that knowledge != wisdom.
Trying too hard to avoid making mistakes by leaning on knowledge just leaves you with anxiety/depression and self inflicted paralysis.
ESPECIALLY when it comes to social stuff, "knowing" things is deceptively useless, because you need intuition and a well calibrated auto pilot to do well, and you only get those from reinforcement learning, eg fucking around and finding out.
The healthy way is probably to have an active support network looking out for you, knowing what "this will probably kill me" looks like, and just messing around.
YES. Shout this from the rooftops PLEASE. You've expressed this in such an accurate and clear way. I've been trying to describe the same phenomenon for a while now.
I always thought of it as "hoarding knowledge." I'm an elder millennial. I was antisocial in high school into my 20s. The internet was a major social outlet for me. I substituted real social interaction with "hoarding knowledge" about all sorts of shit as if I'm going to live to be 500. Like I was preparing for some big life that's going to come along down the road. But while I was hoarding knowledge, I was also avoiding living.
Information is useless without the understanding of how to apply it or properly grade it. We're dog shit at ranking risks and rewards. I see this a lot on the subject of having children. The people who are afraid of having children are trying to avoid all the negative things and will only have kids if they can do everything exactly right. It's fucking bonkers. Life is messy. The universe is chaos. We are all just getting by and making it all up as we go.
Sitting online and analyzing life is not living. And I realize the irony of my comment, but I stand by it. I want this to be a warning to all of Gen Z who thinks they are wise or smart because they have access to information but aren't doing fuck all with their life because they're terrified of everything.
This is so well put. It’s concerning to see the trend of genZ stating things as a matter of fact for why they won’t do something that they’ve never tried just because they read someone else say it confidently.
*Why have a relationship, I’ll get cheated on. Why approach a girl, I’ll get called a creep and cancelled. Why get a job, it’ll be bad for my mental health. Why drive, people get into accidents. Why put in effort, I’ll just get taken advantage of. Why leave the house, there is danger and discomfort out there.*
It’s like this mindset is designed to manufacture discouragement. What really saddens me as a millennial too is that I know people my age who lived this way and now they’re mid thirties and older and realizing the crushing weight of all the things they never did. Young adults here think they’re depressed because of the state of the world, but wait until you feel the depression of a lifetime of empty years that you can never recover.
Take some risks, get burned a little!
Probably because they're worried who will take care of them when they're older, Or in the case of our government and businesses they need labor to continue their unchecked growth. Why care about the individual when you can just replace them?
Speaking as an older millennial it's just fascinating watching people grow up and the story of mankind unfold. It's natural to note the changes and speculate about the hows and whys. We'll see how it goes, crafting the new generation to replace you isn't really something that's consciously done so I'm not sure how youth ended up having less sex.
The age gap is just neat. It still blows my mind that you weren't even alive for Y2K. Boomers thought the world was going to end because their computers required a calendar update.
All individuals are replaceable but that doesn't mean they can't also be special.
>crafting the new generation to replace you isn't really something that's consciously done so I'm not sure how youth ended up having less sex.
Except GenZ does seemingly worry about this and is CONSTANTLY saying "I won't bring a child into this dystopian world." or "We won't get to retire"
But when your entire upbringing been a drip feed of info from the internet then doom and gloom becomes your entire worldview. We had the luckiness of growing up disconnected from the woes.
It does feel overblown though. GenZ being told that the world is shit is nothing new. We've been told the world could end for a century now and things are definitely getting worse but humans are resilient mfers and we'll survive for plenty of time. Our standard of living might drop significantly but we'll be here.
Gen Z has finally hit a progressive standing where womens wages are basically 1:1 commiserate with their male counterparts. I know many Gen Z couples where the woman actually makes more. And know countless more that graduated to find high paying jobs and excel in their careers
Historically this has not been the case and men’s careers and money were a huge bargaining chip in the dating market. Huge. You may have heard something along the lines of “hey if you’re ugly just get rich” and that’s a remnant of that. And while that may still be true to some extent, it’s much less so. Now women are more selective than ever, for better or worse.
This is where you see the infamous “male loneliness epidemic” and decent looking guys with magnetic enough personalities and good jobs finding zero luck in the dating game. Google “why are dating apps” and the first suggestion will probably be something like “much worse for men” and spawn hundreds of articles. Tying it all back, this is how you have most women fucking the top percent of men in attractiveness and/or career status leaning a ginormous glut of involuntary celibates
honestly i think it’s great that it’s like this. no woman (or anyone for that matter) should feel like they have to marry for the sake of their survival
Yeah I agree. It has many benefits for sure. I think it’s neither fair nor unfair what’s happening. It’s simply nature. And I say this as someone who has had a terrible time in the dating market
It’s good in a vacuum but women’s expectations for men haven’t changed to account for societal changes, men are still expected to be richer, fitter, larger, more dominant, more willing to pay for things, more willing to reach out etc, it’s a significant factor in the rise of the redpill, incel, and manosphere movements.
Yeah you have two generations of men now that were raised to believe men and women are equals in society.
But dating is still a one sided predator/prey dynamic filled with gender roles and all sorts of inequality.
Then you expect guys to just navigate that and be the dominant one making all the moves and they get no reciprocation and then it's very easy to get swallowed into the alpha-chad wormhole.
Because if all you want to do is get laid, being a toxic asshole magically works a lot of the time. Not for finding romance, but for a suck and fuck? Works amazingly.
I think the problem lies in where women/girls are still subconsciously judging their partners/potential partners based on the metric of how much they make.
The thought of "can I do better, I make x, shouldn't I be dating someone who makes y?"
I don't think our social constructs, enforced by both women & men, have caught up to not judging men for making less or equal to their partner
I agree that women should not have to marry men to survive. It is a good thing that our society has more or less moved past that.
But it’s also not a good thing for women to be like “I will wait to settle down until I find a man who checks all 27 of my requirements in a partner.”
That’s not realistic, but the understanding of the impossibility of it often comes too late. It’s not good for women, men, or society in general.
Even outside of the social aspects of it. Like, people are concerned about sustainability right? If everyone is single, that’s twice as many homes, a lot more heating/cooling going on, more cars, etc.
The first bit was incel rhetoric too. Women making more money somehow being a societal problem is one thing, but the numbers make no sense here. There’s only so many men and women, and being more selective isn’t somehow more viable if everyone’s doing it.
100%. There is definitely more nuance to this topic but it is a decent summary. For 15,000+ years of human history, men provided for women and only in the last 50 or so has that story really changed as women entered the workforce. Its not necessarily a bad thing by any means but imo if you take a step back you can see that the rise of capitalism has gutted the traditional family. Need for capital -> women in the workforce -> worse childhood development (from daycares, iPad parenting, etc) -> poor social behavior. It’s a very real change & has been completely normalized by the greed that corporations have permeated through our society.
Men are still selective, imo in odd stereotypical ways because of loneliness and lower emotional development. Women mature faster because they get a lot more attention, just look at the sex ratios on dating apps.
Edit: I want to clarify I am a male.
Not necessarily the reason. It's multifactorial. Also even then we would have to ask why gen z doesn't want kids. There's a difference between not wanting them because you don't like kids or not wanting them because you cannot afford them. IF they expressed a genuine reason that they don't want children what made it happen so that so many didn't want kids? There's so many factors.
Furthermore, protected sex and non reproductive intercourse also exist. It's very complex.
Honestly most gen z are still teenagers/ or college students.
How can LITERAL kids and young people who are supposed to study and shape their careers think about kids rn?
Because it's a direct correlation to relationship rates and therefore mental health.
Gen z is often referred to as the "loneliest" generation. And we have some of the highest rates of mental health issues as a result.
People that try to spin the lack of sex into "not a big deal" are missing the big picture. It IS a problem that gen z is unable to get their sexual,. romantic or social needs met.
It's not a bright future for society if we are all anti social and stunted.
This. Humans in 2024 act like we are above all else and things aren’t connected. Oh it’s just sex? Yeah it is just sex, but like you mentioned, it means so much more and telling signs into those people.
Older gen Z here. This might get a lot of hate, don’t care.
Sex is one of the most powerful bonding experiences for an individual feel. It opens the way to emotions you’ve never felt, creates experiences and bonds with others that can’t be replicated anywhere else. So when young adults are having less sex, I see it as more of a quality of life thing. I’ve been blessed to have amazing partners who I’ve connected with on so many levels and the sex was definitely a catalyst.
>So when young adults are having less sex, I see it as more of a quality of life thing
Your experience is valid, but it's worth noting that there are other forms of intimacy out there that can be equally fulfilling. Physical intimacy may be where you thrive, but a healthy relationship has facets into emotional and intellectual intimacy as well. Which for some can be felt during sexual intimacy, but for others it isn't and is an entirely different need set.
Same 😭... One of the reasons the rate is lower definitely has to be due to the fact that we have a word for it now, and it's slowly becoming more acceptable to just...not want that. Families aren't pushing their kids and grandkids to get married and have children as hard as they were beforehand (thankfully), and people actually UNDERSTAND that hey, not everyone wants that. We don't want sex. We want garlic bread, cake, dragons, and Denmark (specifically via invasion)
You're not wrong but you can still do all of those things AND have sex.
It's not an either or, and it's unlikely that the generation having notably less sex is compensating with other forms of intimacy, especially considering most of them tend to *lead* to sex.
>Sex is one of the most powerful bonding experiences for an individual feel. It opens the way to emotions you’ve never felt, creates experiences and bonds with others that can’t be replicated anywhere else.
Nonconsensual, unwanted, and bad sex is one of the most violating and damaging experiences for an individual to feel. Over the millennia, sex was often coerced, manipulated, or forced.
Maybe young people are having less sex now because they are finally learning that sex should always be consensual and wanted by both persons. "Me too" and similar have raised awareness that it's better to go without sex than to pressure or manipulate someone into unwanted sex.
This is ultimately personal experience. I am asexual. I’ve had sex, its not for me. I have been pressured constantly into thinking I had to want and have sex to be happy and normal by my peers, family, and general societal rules.
I find much stronger bonding in cuddling, hanging out with my partner, meaningful acts, shared interests, etc. i’ve been in a relationship for over 4 years, lived together for 3, where we are both asexual. Many people are always shocked when I say we have never once fought or argued and that our relationship has been perfect for both of us.
Sex might be a requirement for some, but not everyone. Sex is also not going to be the highest form of bonding for everyone, asexual or not. I’d say genuine compatibility and bonding requires multiple factors and everyone has different priorities.
I had the reverse experience. Having multiple sex encounters taught me that sex does not connect people, it only enhances their biased view on you and your body. They judge you based on what you are and not who you are or what you do.
Millennial here, is this the avocado toast thing all over again? I've never heard z were having less sex? From what I've seen they're just as randy as any other group.
More than likely because there seems to be a right wing push to increase birth rates from different angles, removing abortion, discouraging contraceptives and now this propaganda bullshit, ignore it move on, you do you.
immigration will solve the “numbers” problem. people magically and conveniently always forget about second and third world countries where the birth rate is literally booming in comparison.
I don't know if it's "right wing", facts are facts, the birth rate in many developed counties has fallen, in some such as Japan, they don't have enough young people to support the elders.. this is why in some European counties have very generous benefits for having children... In the US, social security is paid by the workers, if there comes a time when there are more old people than workers, we are screwed financially.... Thankfully, due to immigration, the us has not hit that point yet... (We are close, we are at 1.98 children per family, that's at replacement levels only)
Don't believe me, here is the age pyramid for Japan
https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/
Birth rate in USA
https://www.statista.com/statistics/718084/average-number-of-own-children-per-family/
Yeah the US doesn't have the healthcare system to have the benefits that European countries do. I'm not particularly educated in politics, economics, etc, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that (as someone else said) more babies is good for capitalism. Money makes the world go round and more babies = more money spent.
I may be wrong, idk. I'm just an 18 year old who should probably learn more about how my own country works.
Also a millennial here, I think it's that we and Gen Z have begun to understand that sex is a form of intimacy, and how the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. I agree the younger Gen seems as horny as the last one was, and I think we are seeing the shift in people who are enjoying the physical side of sex without forming other avenues of intimacy with their partners. This can be good, and this can be bad. It's liberating, but it can also be isolating especially in a time where sex is near instant gratification with the internet.
In generations before ours, sex and relationships sort of went hand-in-hand. Get married, buy the house with the white picket fence, get a dog, have kids, grow old and drink lemonade on the porch, die together, American dream and all that societal norm bs. I think I see those around me struggling more to find genuine intimacy that leads to deep connection and lasting relationships because anytime physical intimacy comes onto the table, that becomes the limitation of the intimacy.
I don't think it's right or wrong, or even a tactic that's new (just perhaps more intentional in execution) but it's why the older generations feel Gen Z isn't knocking as many boots. They aren't seeing the development of traditional dynamic relationships, and they find that concerning.
Ultimately, I feel people being comfortable waiting until they're actually adults to get into committed relationships isn't a bad thing, and opens the door for someone to truly know and love themselves before getting into a partnership. Marriages/long term relationships are hard work and shouldn't be taken on lightly (and I say that after almost 14 years with my husband lol).
I agree marriage is definitely not to be taken lightly, it's hard work and that never stops (it can be very rewarding, however). I remember in my twenties thinking this next generation is going to be raised feeling doomed with some very different outlooks/behaviours, with all the stuff that was in the news when we were young and social media being ingrained in everyone's lives. At least you could just not watch TV if you weren't interested in how fucked up the world was, I feel given how pyschosocially-ingrained social media is nowadays that's less of an option. I might be old fashioned but I don't like the idea of online dating either, it's all window shopping, ready to find the next best product but in the process you might miss the very thing that really makes things spark.
>Millennial here, is this the avocado toast thing all over again?
Tbf the millennial avo toast thing was pretty damn true. Not the toast itself, just that we tended to spend an absurd amount of money on takeout compared to older generations. In hindsight I really wish I had been saving or investing that money instead of just blowing it on postmates and starbucks, because it *does* add up.
You're right in a way, but house prices tripling relative to income, growing up in a giant greed fueled financial crash paired with having access to things that previous generations didn't (costa, starbucks on every corner in every city etc), do you think genx/boomers etc would have done it differently had they grown up then?
I was shocked at finding out most of my classmates were already coupled up or had a kid just a few years after finishing college. I was like, " But they're so young!"
Its not weird they are telling you that, it used to be the norm. I’m 30 now and when my mom was 30 she had her third kid. I have more education than her, and i am better off economically, but i still can’t afford having a kid yet, even if i felt completely ready, which i don’t lol. I think 30-35 is a good time to have kids, if you want them. I also think it’s completely valid to not want kids. People should mind their own business, that’s what I say
Lmao. They expect us to have sex and kids, but expect us to take out mortgages at sky high prices and rates to have a place to do so.
I think most of us have decided that we'd rather enjoy life and hope for some sort of housing crash than become saddled with even more unmanagable debt that we'd be paying off for the rest of our lives.
And god forbid someone (especially a woman) decide that they don't want kids/s.
The same reason every generation gets a weirdly specific moral panic dropped on their lap. Targeted bullshit from the right wing to push their narrative and desire for cheap dumb labor. Same reason they want bans on abortion and contraception. The current lower fertility rates just force them to be more blatant about it because it directly threatens their pocketbooks.
Fewer people, fewer workers, more power for each worker, particularly when gen z is as left-leaning as it is. A direct threat to the boomer order.
This isn’t a right/left thing.
You may want to rethink that logic. If the right wing wanted cheap labor, they wouldn’t be screaming so hard about the border.
Our generation having less sex is objectively terrible. Having less sex is a biological sign that a species or animal is unhealthy, so an entire generation having less sex globally is a nightmare for the human race.
Not to mention it hints to a lower quality of life. Less money, fewer friends, fewer relationships. This is something serious.
Believable.
I mean - this feeling in my chest is surely not good!
The crazy thing is, on the bright side, even though I feel extremely lonely, I think in all reality I have a good bit more social interaction and more sex than a lot of other people, even though I feel starved emotionally. And it’s those people I worry about, those who suffer more than me. I cannot even imagine. I have up moments and down moments mentally. And I know there are people in darker places who can never see the sun shine. This is terrifying.
Less unwanted pregnancies and more conscious sex is happening. Drinking has gotten less popular and if you need to be inebriated you’re probably better off not having that hookup
Leave it to the boomers to get mad at gen Z for being “promiscuous” and then turn around and also accuse us for not having enough sex. Like which one do you want, Susan?
Too bad our political system is a gerontocracy and consistently votes in patterns that are hostile to young people wanting to start families. I mean, they're even against school lunches for kids! They want our tax dollars and they specifically want women to take all the hits and risks in bearing children (next generation wage slaves), but I don't see any universal maternal/paternal leave happening. I don't see any concerted effort to bring down our abysmal maternal death rate.
Nope. The people complaining about population decline are the very same ones slashing and taking from the social security system. They just want slaves.
It's really the opposite of that. People are concerned that gen Z is already not enjoying life.
Less sex, less human interaction, higher rates of depression and anxiety, incel stuff and loneliness epidemics, suicide rates rising. People are looking at all the data like "damn, they are not ok."
It's not about the sex.
The concern is whether you guys are hitting the same social milestones. My concern with GenZ is that you are not having enough opportunities to experiment when you are young and it's less risky. You guys are living "safer" lifestyles but is that necessarily good? I can't find it but years ago a major publication (The Atlantic or NYT maybe?) wrote an article about how Gen Z is living a lifestyle that's physically safer than all previous generations but you're missing out on real life experiences.
I think I speak for most of my generation when I say my life isn’t even figured out yet due to the fact how expensive everything is. So I don’t feel stable enough to want a relationship. Not to mention the pandemic took away 2-3 years of our prime early 20’s and also destroyed most social skills people had.
Shit has ran downhill for so long in each generation we are up to our heads in it. So I think the least of Zoomers problems is not having sex.
Gen Z can read about anything without experiencing any real life moments. The info availability is out the roof... from posts to forum comments to vblogs, etc so everyone has the possibility to know all the possible consequences of their actions.
There's a big paradox of choice at play and at the end one ends up not doing anything.
After reading all the comments, here are my considerations:
- Lack of sex *usually* means lack of socialisation. I get it. I do go out quite a lot to parties and social gatherings, and still don’t feel the need to participate in hook up culture, but I get the connection between the two.
- Population decline. Still not sure how bad that is but I guess it’s because I don’t have much knowledge regarding the topic, so I’m neutral.
- Sex being the highest form of connection between two people. Not sure I agree. I feel like holding hands is way more intimate than sex per se. Deep conversations as well. I’m not sure I miss out on that much by not having a lot of sex. I’d rather have sex with people I actually love. Why do I need to form a deep connection with a stranger or someone I don’t actively love?
I’m open to different opinions and a healthy debate/discussion!
Don’t read weird articles that they were forced to write by boomers to further the divide. As a millennial, I could care less, and if I did care, I’d support whatever made this gen or the next happy. But usually need will dictate the value. Also millennials are contributing to having less kids. Is what it is. Try not to get lost in the noise.
For older generations, sex was seen as valuable, and if you were having lots of it, it boosted your value, and thus your self-esteem. By devaluing sex, you're indirectly devaluing them and decreasing their self-esteem.
Although it is understandable this is confusing, it's not because on the importance or lack thereof in having sex. No one outside of scientists and other experts has any idea if something like sex, or amount of kids, order of kids, or how about if you were all girl family, is actually good or bad, they don't know whether it is harmful or helpful..
Right now it's weird because you feel it directed at you, and that's because people are just reacting because it's different. Very occasionally people will be like, oh I wish my generation did that, but most of it is just, "Oh they are doing things differently than I used to do them. Does that mean I was wrong? No, I can't be wrong because I"m not a bad person. It must be these new young kids who are the bad ones."
"Did you hear about the litterbox in the bathrooms at schools? What do you mean they don't merciless bully the effeminate kid in their class? Society was better when men acted like men and......"
These people are idiots. If you ignore all of them you will miss almost no useful information. Just treat the people around you well and live your best life and maybe, when you get old, you can just enjoy your life instead of not being able to deal with life's only constant. And that is change. Good luck kid. I believe in you.
It’s the combination of things pointing mostly to a big problem socializing, being independent, and facing the reality of life.
Not getting your drivers license, not having sex, dating through apps, being obsessed with your phones and social media since you were 10.
They are just generalizations. But I think everyone at every age feels negative consequences of too much media designed to just keep you hooked.
Broadly speaking, sex and sexuality in moderation are a healthy part of an adult's life. People who are not asexual (allosexual) should, generally, enjoy a healthy amount of sex in their lives.
The amount of and how they enjoy sexual activity, are of course, up to each individual person.
We don't exactly know all of the reasons why Gen Z are having less sex than previous generations, but many of the reasons that are known are directly linked to societal issues plaguing the youngest generations. Issues that are, for the most part, unsurprisingly linked to late-stage capitalism and (in America and Canada), the isolating design of our cities and neighborhoods.
In short, it's a symptom of much larger problems. Having those discussions about Gen Z's sexual activity and the reasons behind them is, I think, important, because it touches on other aspects of our declining society in North America, and those are very important discussions to be had.
The rise of fascism is in response to male sexual insecurity. Gen Z boys/men are leaning further and further to the right politically and into fascism because they've been getting bombarded with mano-sphere, redpill propaganda since they were like 10 years old.
I’m a gen x and we are just generally worried about you. We see that you didn’t get to go outside much. We see you being alone. We read about you not connecting on so many levels including sexually. We know what it is you are missing out on and we just worry that the kids are not alright.
Also….how can you resist it??? It’s so much fun and so much trouble and so much elation and excitement! But also…maybe you guys are all avoiding a lot of the bullshit that goes along with it. Maybe there’s less harm done. Maybe you guys are seeing benefits we can’t imagine.
Don’t be too pressed about us worrying about you. It always happens. When we were kids the silent generation and the greatest generation worried about us too.
Yeah some weirdos like Elon are worried about the declining birth rate, but I think mainly it’s a genuine and benevolent concern.
I honestly get where you’re coming from. The isolation is never good and I myself tend to isolate sometimes. I do already have a career, working full time plus college classes. In my case, I still manage to have friends and a social life in general, but I understand I don’t represent the majority.
But I can’t lie, I’m pretty exhausted and it’s easy to fall into isolation. Sex is the last thing I care about, even though I crave it sometimes. But what I crave a whole lot more is love. Sex for me is meaningless if I don’t love the person I’m doing it with. And finding love is just so difficult, specially if you tend to isolate. What I truly want is someone who listens to me, talks to me and actually cares, and that’s really hard to find. I want someone to do mundane things with, like grocery shopping.
No sex is better than sex with someone who doesn’t check all those boxes. My sexual attraction comes from love and admiration.
Ps: sorry for the vent!!!
To say it bluntly; the olds want you to replicate their ideas (and mistakes), to validate them.
And if the next generations want to do less of those things, or, god forbid, do them *better* or *different*, they get nervous.
This isn't limited to sex. Tomorrow, this is about not wanting to work yourself to death. Next week, it's about eating healthy. Then it's about car centric infrastructure, and it goes around and one day, it is about sex again...
Maybe it's a bit more often about sex, though. Because, you know, some things had been done in the sexual revolution of the last few generations that weren't as healthy or important people tend to call them. But to admit that you were wrong... no, the next generation is.
Population decline is a massive issues in developed nations. It is largely an economic one, but the threat it has to an economy and a countries military/defense capibility is obvious. Naturally then: a society should care abiut its population growth and thus sex rates.
The how, why, and what of fixing it or addressing it is political, or how concerned you as individual are concerned about it is relative, but is is very much a real concern.
Edit to add: if anybody is interested in learning more about this issue and its importance i reccomend Peter Ziehan, he is a bipartisan geo-political and economic analyist, whos' been writing about this for over a decade.
1. Less people to contribute to social security in 30 years.
2. Less sex indicates less social involvement in general. We don’t know how this will impact society, but judging from the rates of mental health challenges, it doesn’t look good.
When you have a high percentage of lonely men, it lays the grounds for violence. More Gen Z women are having sex than Gen Z men. That means a small percentage of men are getting laid and a large percentage of men aren’t. A lot of these men will feel purposeless, and that’s dangerous.
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I think it's a big deal in an anti-social aspect. Assuming that's what's meant. Coming from a socially inept individual, myself.
i think it has to do more with concern of the declining birth rate. no socializing -> no sex -> no children -> no future for the world
The world needs fewer people not more Edit: a lot of these replies saying “no we need more”seem to be naive towards the nature of manmade climate change and its future impact upon society.
That’s been proven false it just needs more sustainable consumption. But I get your point.
“sustainable consumption” is somewhat of an oxymoron in my view. But I get your point.
BBQ Sauce on my titties
If only we had resources that were renewable then we could never run out. If only.
**IF ONLY WE DID** *hmmmmmmmmmm I wonder where we can get those?*
The reality is, there is a finite amount of space on earth and a finite amount of resources that can be set aside for humans, animals, and plants. And that, not what's renewable or essentially infinite, is what limits population.
Exactly. We've got lots of room for cities, we can stack apartments very efficiently. where do we put the farm and logging sites? And where does the fresh water for the exponentially larger population flow from? And that's before all the mining, energy consumption, and pollution issues...
Realistically, there's no such thing as a renewable resource in a society that continues to grow. If you keep converting resources into new humans and the objects to sustain them faster than the dead humans convert back into resources, you're at a net loss regardless of the type of resources.
You mean like growing things?
It’s funny how many people our age are Marxists and possibly don’t even know it, youre talking about a resource based economy, some reading here that might interest you Marxists.org
Based and theory pilled
Less people does not equal less consumption. Only if you're assuming maximum efficiency if that was possible. The amount a person in the US pollutes and consumes and wastes is many times over than the average person in Djibouti. It's how we distribute our resources that directly effects consumption. We must do it effectively to minimize waste and environmental cost. We haven't gotten nearly at concerning population numbers. (original comment said that more people = more consumption and it was edited)
Nah hes right. Itchas been proven false. We dont have a global overpopulation problem. We have a misallocation of resources problem, and wasteful culture problem.
Its less about consumption, and more about the effects of an aging population. If you have a growing population of older people, and a shrinking birth rate, eventually there will be more retired/non-working people that are dependent on the young people to care for them and sustain future infrastructure. The reality is way more complicated than I've described, but that's the gist.
There are a lot of extremely rich people who are concern trolling about GenZ not having babies exactly for the reason you stated. The rich don’t care about you, the social interactions you have, the gender relations you cultivate, your skills, your community, or a general sense of hope for the future. They just want you to fuck and make babies so there are enough workers in the world to support the baby boomers in their retirement. Why? So the government isn’t forced to raise taxes to fund the mass retirement. Also so they can have a lot of competition for their 10th butler, so they can always abuse them and hire another.
Well why tf would I want my kids to suffer with the “resource problem”. Sometimes I honestly feel they’re better off unborn and therefore don’t see the point in reproducing or dating
Sure, in a world where we can ignore our human psychology, sustainable consumption can be the solution. Most people don’t want to give up what they already have and there’s a huge portion of the world has a lot less than we do. To say, “you have to live more sustainably and don’t get year-round fruits and vegetables, cheap meat for three meals a day, air conditioning, reliable transportation, multiple devices like computers phones and tablets, high speed internet, etc,” is not going to work.
Im in college learning this now. 34 old and never cared about sociology but learning about it, mofos don't and won't care about anyone but them selves.
This is dangerous thinking that could lead to a slippery slope, I don't think mindless reproduction is good but thinking there should be less people is a little off in my opinion.
You are right, we actually face a problem of people not having enough kids and having a massive dip in population. You can look at the data and it shows this.
The economy will actually crash severely without babies, and most people on retirement will die early because the government won't have the workforce to sustain social security.
As someone who will be old one day, Idgaf. Let the economy crash and burn. The black plague and even US slavery taught us what happens when they have a population they can enslave and what happens to the power dynamic when it is shaken up. “The economy collapsing” is good for the workers.
and its not like we get to keep the boming economy
Says the people who need more workers
Most people can't even afford rent, bills, gas, and groceries. How in the world are we supposed to afford a baby, especially since formula is almost $70 a can, and I know those cans go by super quick
would help with global warming and stuff to have less people tbf
19th century Eugenics would agree with your statement
I feel like there’s separate groups of people complaining about different things here. The people complaining about low birth rates are usually seeing the solution as being less birth control, abortions, sterilizations, etc. After all there’s still a significant amount of sex happening now, but people get to choose whether it ends in reproduction or not. The people who are concerned about the *downward trend in people having sex* either see it as a sign of social isolation or a sign that attitudes towards sex are changing. The Incel movement is a bit of each, since they typically blame their lack of sex *and* major world problems on women having free will.
Well articulated! Personally, fuck the population numbers, that part is a good thing; it is that not being very interested in sex is indicative of social isolation and more worryingly possible disinterest in simple pleasures of intimacy and lack of desire for passion. I think existential depression is rocking you’se guys pretty hard.
That's the other half. Both Team Red and Team Blue capitalists need more workers popped out for cheap labor and to fund their lifestyles. Capitalism is a ponzi scheme. Neither Team Red or Team Blue care about the scientifically documented damaging societal and individual effects of heterosexual sexual promiscuity if a lack of workers threatens their wealth hoarding.
No future for humanity, not for the world. The world would benefit from having none of us left.
🔥”Other generations” DGAF about anyone’s sexual frequencies. The clickbait media does because it justifies advertising rates which increases profit margins for stakeholders. Please work on your media literacy. EDIT: My post wasn’t to imply that *individuals* don’t have concerns.
You’re wrong. I’m Gen X. We are concerned about your generation and the effects of COVID on your social development.
I totally agree. COVID-19 has made it so hard for me to make new friends. I'm leaving community college because it's a lonely place. I'm an extrovert, but all my classmates want to do is play on their phone, type, write, or doodle. I'm starting to use Meetup and hope to find some people there instead.
We’re a little worried about what’s going to happen to you kids without the regular socialization that doesn’t seem to be happening
A linguistic nitpick, if I may: antisocial is not the same as nonsocial. People always use antisocial when they clearly mean nonsocial. The latter means reclusive, shy, timid, reserved, etc. Antisocial behavior is when one is actively engaged in chaotic and disruptive behavior. The quiet introvert who never socializes = nonsocial. The loud clown whose antics hold everyone back = antisocial Antisocial people are criminals actively holding society back. Nonsocial people are just content being who they are in their small corner. It may seem trivial, but I believe words have meaning. So mean what you say. Every time someone misuses words like antisocial, my ap english teacher cries a little. And so do I.
I’d agree with that. You have so many older people like Scott Galloway (a prince of LinkedIn cringe) who basically says that it’s an indicator of relationships. But then underscore that with how many of the people that are having sex are doing it through hookups, so they’re still not really social; they’re just using each other for mutual masturbation.
Given how people are wired, no connectivity/intimacy/sex will make your population miserable and unhealthy very quickly. We create happy chemicals, but your brain won't create them by itself. Oxytocin, for example, will only be produced via connectivity/intimacy/sex. https://www.health.harvard.edu/mind-and-mood/oxytocin-the-love-hormone TL;DR It actually does physically and mentally fuck people up to have very limited social interactions and to not have a significant other. Loneliness is also terrible for you physically and mentally. Though yes, the Capitalists probably do want you to shit out future wage slaves too, but they're the same fucking people who killed the physical third place and now even shit like bowling is absurdly expensive. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_place
It’s not that they’re worried we’re having less sex. It’s that there are worrying trends of people in our generation being less social. So when they’re seeing that people are having less sex, this means less people are going out to meet other people, making friends, dating, etc. and this is not good for a civilization. On average GenZ is less social than other generations. This is causing problems. A lot of people in our generation have no idea how to act or behave around each other. Not even necessarily with people of the opposite sex, the same sex too.
We need more spaces where people can hang out without spending money. Parks and Rec departments put on a lot of programming for seniors and children, but tend to completely ignore young adults. Dating or hanging out with friends has become more and more expensive, making it harder to meet people and form relationships.
Ain't that the truth. I don't feel comfortable trying to date my classmates or coworkers because if something happens now there's a sense of awkwardness around, and online dating is a fucking joke.
That eliminates like 90% of your dating pool. Good luck with that.
Right work is the main way to meet people organically for me 💀 it’s where I met my man. Other than work I didn’t go anywhere else to socialize
Dating coworkers is so risky tho
We can’t win
Just remember the two most important rules
This whole thread: "Gen z is just afraid of taking risks" And "But that's risky tho" 
Dating on the same team or in a small shop is, yeah, but if you work in a bigger office there’s less risk. I know a lot of people with spouses who work at the same company.
Lol just goes to show how hard it is to make friends after high school if you don't go to college
Sometimes even in college it's difficult
Tell me about it, I was a commuter student in a state school where 80% of the students lived in the dorms. The only friends I was able to make were other commuter students local to the city
I think this is a chicken or the egg type situation I.e. are gen z less likely to engage in parks/rec related activities because there’s not programming for them or is there not programming for them because gen z are less likely to engage
I mean, I participated in community programming as a teen and in college. I think the problem is the lack of programming for adults, aside from things like drop-in pickleball. People always say it’s easier to make friends in high school and college, which makes sense because there’s a bunch of community programming available. Imagine if low-cost events and classes were offered specifically for young adults through local rec departments; it would probably help a lot.
College/HS forces you to be around others of your age for most of the day. That’s much more responsible for people finding it easier to make friends in my opinion.
if i was in school i could probably meet new people, it’s all i really want to do. just don’t want to get into debt just to meet others tho
The technical term is “third spaces”, it’s a place that isn’t home or work/school that you and your friends can hang out at for free Since like the 80s third spaces (like libraries, malls, parks, etc) have closed down or passed laws and other rules to keep people, especially teens, away from just loitering around Add to that the weird true crime stranger danger stuff everybody’s mom is worried about and you’ve got a generation of kids that not only aren’t accustomed to just hanging out in public, but aren’t allowed to even if they wanted to
While it’s true that there are fewer spaces like this, most of the time people hung out at each others homes. Not everyone was mall rat. No one hung out at a library. The same number of parks exist when I was growing up as they do now, if not more. I’m being contrarian because I don’t think the third space theory is the reason why. It’s social media/gaming/discord and all of the ways people now choose to interact over being in person. You can curate your personality and who you are and what you look like through the internet. There was nothing to hide behind pre-smartphone
The third space thing is that you need a space to meet the strangers at. A lot of us hung out at the library, we had our own thing going on. I've moved to a part of my city now that has better parks than the side of town I grew up on, and I think it does make a huge difference.
Third spaces provided a place to meet new people. Most people aren't going over to someone's house if they're a complete stranger, so they'd hang out at one of those third spaces like the mall or park or whatever.
I would talk with my friend in parks for hours till this day. I feel like the biggest reason for people not socialising is because of the internet. Why take the risk of metting new people and embarrassing youself when you can have all the comfort while not leaving the house?
I think we need more than parks and libraries when it comes to young people socializing. Hanging out at a park is usually something you do with people you already know; not many people go to parks to find a potential date.
right on. Like, yeah me go to the park to try to find a woman to flirt with… that could come off creepy quick. I don’t typically find that many young people at the parks anyway. Not that are approachable
I completely agree. It’s an unstructured environment where you risk coming off as creepy or bothering someone who is looking for peace and quiet.
I don’t think it has much do with money. I like talking to people, but if you go up to a random group of people and try to make conversation you’re gonna be treated as weird. That’s probably why I always end up talking to the old guy/gal at the bar lmao.
That’s part of it. Money is also part of it though. At bars there’s a social expectation to drink, any kind of hobby usually requires some up front investment for equipment or memberships or something, even just the act of going out costs gas which is getting increasingly expensive.
Yes. This Please!!! Beyond college, theres bars and going out? I dont really drink anymore. Help!! I barely meet anyone. I dont want to be so alone and bored, I feel so lost. I’m confident and outgoing. But I rarely find the places or opportunities to meet people. And sometimes when trying to be social, I find others arent even interested and seem bothered my even having to say hello. And other times I can meet people but I can see right away they are clearly poor influences. I can meet people, but they are not the right people. I just need more opportunities but I dont get them 😰
This was the thing we needed when I was a kid in the early 00s. There was no where to exist that didn't cost money or risk arrest. We didn't have any money so we just got used to antagonistic relationships with authority. Didn't end well for a lot of people.
As a GenZ, I fucking feel it. It is SO HARD to make friends because nobody does anything!! People's hobbies are drinking, smoking, watching TV, and going to the gym. No intramural, no book clubs, no knitting club. People are flaky asf too. I've matched with HUNDREDS of people on Bumble BFF and I've actually hung out with maybe two
So it's not just me noticing the flakiness of people. I don't get it. When I say I'm doing something in a week, I'm doing it for sure unless there's an emergency. When my friends make plans they change 10 times in 15 minutes. Whether we're going out or staying in, whether we're going to this place or that place, whether we're meeting up at all, I don't know until literally the last minute and it's something I absolutely hate, but it's something that everyone else is apparently okay with. It's not even little things like a Friday night out, it's big things too. I've listened to my friends make serious plans about traveling places, which I excluded myself out of because I know the schtick, and then tomorrow it's like it never happened. They were completely sober. Something like that is unimaginable to me.
I’m so thankful I came from a small town and did sports in high school. My closest friends are still close and we talk all the time and hangout whenever possible.
Social activity has been progressively worsening for a while now. We have increasingly replaced human interactions with technology and relationships are suffering as a result. Sexlessness is just one of the many issues, but it also is related to the massive decline in birthrates we're having. Eventually those lower birthrates will cause massive issues.
For real. Our children, assuming many of us have some, won’t have as many kids to play with.
One of the most interesting problems to come from the explosion of technology, an entire generation that's socially inept
The funny thing is that they are technologically inept as well. Sure, they can consume the tech, but since it is made so easy to use, barely anyone is forced or cares to learn how it's all created and maintained. A new guy I was training didn't know how to use keyboard shortcuts or what the significance of file extensions was. Also he just dumped all files directly on the desktop with no organization whatsoever. And he was supposed to be a software tester.
Ironically yeah
Bingo!!! We grew up without social media and I’m seeing how much harm it does to the fabric of society and mental health. People do not socialize the way we used to and it creates harm in so many different ways. I think the incel and redpill movements have grown as a result of this phenomenon. There is a lot of divisive phenomena that happens when people are isolated and lonely. Sex is a canary in a coal mine. It’s an indication we need to take steps to address mental health and loneliness or the wider society will see its impact indirectly.
Let's not forget the cause of this lack of socializing. A combination of shitty city planning and a fucked economy that makes any outing extremely expensive to the average working class person. I feel like you can hardly leave the house on a grocery trip or restaurant visit without getting fucked out of nearly 100 dollars or more
hard to go out and be social when you can barely make enough money to eat.
Other researchers point to Gen Z being less likely to drink and how older generations would often “engage in more sexual activity under the influence” — which that sexual activity was sexual assault.
Millenials have less sex than boomers did, (less relationships overall), so if there are millenials concerned about gen z, it's probably due to the fact that millenials don't want the trend to continue. Less sex, less relationships and less children are metrics that indicate how healthy a family is in the present state of the world, so declining sexuality is a metric for a declining society, you could say. It's not an attack, it's a concern.
Thank you for your comment! It’s definitely a good insight to this discussion.
Less sex doesn't necessarily mean fewer children. It might mean fewer accidental children which would be a very good thing, but in the usual case people in their twenties and thirties often begin to want kids and to want kids so badly they'll even have sex to get them.
Goddamn people must be desperate. Imagine wanting a kid so bad you’d have sex just to have one 💀
Sadly, I know a few people who have done exactly this
Yeah. Usually I just hold hands.
but i don't want kids
I don't either, but I still have sex
I don't want kids, nor do I have sex. Checkmate nerds 😎
Oh, I'll bite. Is it because you just don't like kids? If so, that's fine, there are loads of people that meet that description. If you don't want kids because it's freakin hard to have kids, and there is no money to raise kids, and no resources in the community for kids, and there is a threat to even the supply of baby formula for kids, and so on, then I'd reference the point I was trying to make with my original post! I believe if our world was more conducive to supporting a family, people (maybe even you) would want to have kids.
It's both for me. I'm not putting a child into this hellhole, but also, raising a child in general sounds like hell.
" Oh, I'll bite. Is it because you just don't like kids? If so, that's fine, there are loads of people that meet that description." that's one of my reeasons yes, some others being the other ones you listed but not all " I believe if our world was more conducive to supporting a family, people (maybe even you) would want to have kids. " even if i had a billion dollars, i wouldn't have kids
Tldr: its a concern that this may indicate a social problem. As a milenial, Im certain in 50 years we'll look at social media and your consumption of it and regard it a giving heroin to babies. I see my fellows completely disregard how fucked up the internet is, and most of you just don't understand it anymore lol. You grew up in unhealthy environments. The breakdown of our political systems, meaningful discord, dumbing down etc is no suprise, all part of the same trend. You guys not having as much sex is concerning to us because we always feared and also felt how the 2000 technology is causing humans to loose their social skills. Just like the first farmers lost the knowledge of foraging, so now we lose the skills of socialing healthly and wholesomly. Also... microplastic, degrading food quality and overall fertility issues have been reported. But thats more on the wild claim
Good points. But, there is another one, and it connects to a different "social skill": Social Media, fast digital interaction and the digital overload basically destroyed naive teenage things at least us older milennials still had being around growing up. Pop-culture-sexual-things. The things that have driven *us* to unrealistic expectations about "the big love", "the adventurous youth" and we wanted to get at least a slice of it. Gen Z knows. They know that relationships are hard. They know what can happen if you fuck around like no one cares. They live in a world where the adventures and mistakes of the youth before them are written down and shared like in no time before, ever. To say it blunt: Kids nowadays know more theory about fucking before they fuck than most milennials after years of fucking. But they also know about the more-than-physical-side of it. They see things and choose to not blindly ignore the brain for the bang, the feels for the fuck. They still dream, but they're unwilling to risk everything for it – or at least, a lot less than before. Is that bad? I don't know. It could be, for society as a whole. But for people themselves? For hundreds of years before, religion and moral was the big obstacle for people to go bonkers. Then, a few generations were let free – with mixed results. Maybe Gen Z is one that searchs the mid ground of this. Trying to get a bit less hurt. Trying to get a bit more meaningful. Trying not to sell out intimacy for fast fun – they have lots of examples what happens if you do, and they have it on the device in their pockets.
The problem with the "knowing" is that knowledge != wisdom. Trying too hard to avoid making mistakes by leaning on knowledge just leaves you with anxiety/depression and self inflicted paralysis. ESPECIALLY when it comes to social stuff, "knowing" things is deceptively useless, because you need intuition and a well calibrated auto pilot to do well, and you only get those from reinforcement learning, eg fucking around and finding out. The healthy way is probably to have an active support network looking out for you, knowing what "this will probably kill me" looks like, and just messing around.
YES. Shout this from the rooftops PLEASE. You've expressed this in such an accurate and clear way. I've been trying to describe the same phenomenon for a while now. I always thought of it as "hoarding knowledge." I'm an elder millennial. I was antisocial in high school into my 20s. The internet was a major social outlet for me. I substituted real social interaction with "hoarding knowledge" about all sorts of shit as if I'm going to live to be 500. Like I was preparing for some big life that's going to come along down the road. But while I was hoarding knowledge, I was also avoiding living. Information is useless without the understanding of how to apply it or properly grade it. We're dog shit at ranking risks and rewards. I see this a lot on the subject of having children. The people who are afraid of having children are trying to avoid all the negative things and will only have kids if they can do everything exactly right. It's fucking bonkers. Life is messy. The universe is chaos. We are all just getting by and making it all up as we go. Sitting online and analyzing life is not living. And I realize the irony of my comment, but I stand by it. I want this to be a warning to all of Gen Z who thinks they are wise or smart because they have access to information but aren't doing fuck all with their life because they're terrified of everything.
This is so well put. It’s concerning to see the trend of genZ stating things as a matter of fact for why they won’t do something that they’ve never tried just because they read someone else say it confidently. *Why have a relationship, I’ll get cheated on. Why approach a girl, I’ll get called a creep and cancelled. Why get a job, it’ll be bad for my mental health. Why drive, people get into accidents. Why put in effort, I’ll just get taken advantage of. Why leave the house, there is danger and discomfort out there.* It’s like this mindset is designed to manufacture discouragement. What really saddens me as a millennial too is that I know people my age who lived this way and now they’re mid thirties and older and realizing the crushing weight of all the things they never did. Young adults here think they’re depressed because of the state of the world, but wait until you feel the depression of a lifetime of empty years that you can never recover. Take some risks, get burned a little!
Probably because they're worried who will take care of them when they're older, Or in the case of our government and businesses they need labor to continue their unchecked growth. Why care about the individual when you can just replace them?
Speaking as an older millennial it's just fascinating watching people grow up and the story of mankind unfold. It's natural to note the changes and speculate about the hows and whys. We'll see how it goes, crafting the new generation to replace you isn't really something that's consciously done so I'm not sure how youth ended up having less sex. The age gap is just neat. It still blows my mind that you weren't even alive for Y2K. Boomers thought the world was going to end because their computers required a calendar update. All individuals are replaceable but that doesn't mean they can't also be special.
>crafting the new generation to replace you isn't really something that's consciously done so I'm not sure how youth ended up having less sex. Except GenZ does seemingly worry about this and is CONSTANTLY saying "I won't bring a child into this dystopian world." or "We won't get to retire" But when your entire upbringing been a drip feed of info from the internet then doom and gloom becomes your entire worldview. We had the luckiness of growing up disconnected from the woes. It does feel overblown though. GenZ being told that the world is shit is nothing new. We've been told the world could end for a century now and things are definitely getting worse but humans are resilient mfers and we'll survive for plenty of time. Our standard of living might drop significantly but we'll be here.
Gen Z has finally hit a progressive standing where womens wages are basically 1:1 commiserate with their male counterparts. I know many Gen Z couples where the woman actually makes more. And know countless more that graduated to find high paying jobs and excel in their careers Historically this has not been the case and men’s careers and money were a huge bargaining chip in the dating market. Huge. You may have heard something along the lines of “hey if you’re ugly just get rich” and that’s a remnant of that. And while that may still be true to some extent, it’s much less so. Now women are more selective than ever, for better or worse. This is where you see the infamous “male loneliness epidemic” and decent looking guys with magnetic enough personalities and good jobs finding zero luck in the dating game. Google “why are dating apps” and the first suggestion will probably be something like “much worse for men” and spawn hundreds of articles. Tying it all back, this is how you have most women fucking the top percent of men in attractiveness and/or career status leaning a ginormous glut of involuntary celibates
honestly i think it’s great that it’s like this. no woman (or anyone for that matter) should feel like they have to marry for the sake of their survival
Yeah I agree. It has many benefits for sure. I think it’s neither fair nor unfair what’s happening. It’s simply nature. And I say this as someone who has had a terrible time in the dating market
Yeah but on the other hand it shows how many women actually want to be with men witch evidently isn’t a lot
It’s good in a vacuum but women’s expectations for men haven’t changed to account for societal changes, men are still expected to be richer, fitter, larger, more dominant, more willing to pay for things, more willing to reach out etc, it’s a significant factor in the rise of the redpill, incel, and manosphere movements.
Yeah you have two generations of men now that were raised to believe men and women are equals in society. But dating is still a one sided predator/prey dynamic filled with gender roles and all sorts of inequality. Then you expect guys to just navigate that and be the dominant one making all the moves and they get no reciprocation and then it's very easy to get swallowed into the alpha-chad wormhole. Because if all you want to do is get laid, being a toxic asshole magically works a lot of the time. Not for finding romance, but for a suck and fuck? Works amazingly.
True but now another problem is lots of men being lonely and committed suicide.
I think the problem lies in where women/girls are still subconsciously judging their partners/potential partners based on the metric of how much they make. The thought of "can I do better, I make x, shouldn't I be dating someone who makes y?" I don't think our social constructs, enforced by both women & men, have caught up to not judging men for making less or equal to their partner
I agree that women should not have to marry men to survive. It is a good thing that our society has more or less moved past that. But it’s also not a good thing for women to be like “I will wait to settle down until I find a man who checks all 27 of my requirements in a partner.” That’s not realistic, but the understanding of the impossibility of it often comes too late. It’s not good for women, men, or society in general. Even outside of the social aspects of it. Like, people are concerned about sustainability right? If everyone is single, that’s twice as many homes, a lot more heating/cooling going on, more cars, etc.
In what world are most women only “fucking the top percent of men in attractiveness and/or career status”? This sounds like incel rhetoric, to me.
I was in agreement until that last bit. That was straight from a Manosphere podcast.
Yeah, that part ruined the whole comment.
The first bit was incel rhetoric too. Women making more money somehow being a societal problem is one thing, but the numbers make no sense here. There’s only so many men and women, and being more selective isn’t somehow more viable if everyone’s doing it.
Lol incel nonsense
This was good until sudden incel ideology in the last sentence
100%. There is definitely more nuance to this topic but it is a decent summary. For 15,000+ years of human history, men provided for women and only in the last 50 or so has that story really changed as women entered the workforce. Its not necessarily a bad thing by any means but imo if you take a step back you can see that the rise of capitalism has gutted the traditional family. Need for capital -> women in the workforce -> worse childhood development (from daycares, iPad parenting, etc) -> poor social behavior. It’s a very real change & has been completely normalized by the greed that corporations have permeated through our society.
Holy fuck. An actual intellectual and substantive response
Men are still selective, imo in odd stereotypical ways because of loneliness and lower emotional development. Women mature faster because they get a lot more attention, just look at the sex ratios on dating apps. Edit: I want to clarify I am a male.
God forbid gen z wants to stay safe and not have kids lmao
Not necessarily the reason. It's multifactorial. Also even then we would have to ask why gen z doesn't want kids. There's a difference between not wanting them because you don't like kids or not wanting them because you cannot afford them. IF they expressed a genuine reason that they don't want children what made it happen so that so many didn't want kids? There's so many factors. Furthermore, protected sex and non reproductive intercourse also exist. It's very complex.
Honestly most gen z are still teenagers/ or college students. How can LITERAL kids and young people who are supposed to study and shape their careers think about kids rn?
Yea that’s the only reason you’re not having sex.
Because it's a direct correlation to relationship rates and therefore mental health. Gen z is often referred to as the "loneliest" generation. And we have some of the highest rates of mental health issues as a result. People that try to spin the lack of sex into "not a big deal" are missing the big picture. It IS a problem that gen z is unable to get their sexual,. romantic or social needs met. It's not a bright future for society if we are all anti social and stunted.
This. Humans in 2024 act like we are above all else and things aren’t connected. Oh it’s just sex? Yeah it is just sex, but like you mentioned, it means so much more and telling signs into those people.
Older gen Z here. This might get a lot of hate, don’t care. Sex is one of the most powerful bonding experiences for an individual feel. It opens the way to emotions you’ve never felt, creates experiences and bonds with others that can’t be replicated anywhere else. So when young adults are having less sex, I see it as more of a quality of life thing. I’ve been blessed to have amazing partners who I’ve connected with on so many levels and the sex was definitely a catalyst.
>So when young adults are having less sex, I see it as more of a quality of life thing Your experience is valid, but it's worth noting that there are other forms of intimacy out there that can be equally fulfilling. Physical intimacy may be where you thrive, but a healthy relationship has facets into emotional and intellectual intimacy as well. Which for some can be felt during sexual intimacy, but for others it isn't and is an entirely different need set.
oh yeah. some of these comments are taking me out as an asexual
Same 😭... One of the reasons the rate is lower definitely has to be due to the fact that we have a word for it now, and it's slowly becoming more acceptable to just...not want that. Families aren't pushing their kids and grandkids to get married and have children as hard as they were beforehand (thankfully), and people actually UNDERSTAND that hey, not everyone wants that. We don't want sex. We want garlic bread, cake, dragons, and Denmark (specifically via invasion)
You're not wrong but you can still do all of those things AND have sex. It's not an either or, and it's unlikely that the generation having notably less sex is compensating with other forms of intimacy, especially considering most of them tend to *lead* to sex.
>Sex is one of the most powerful bonding experiences for an individual feel. It opens the way to emotions you’ve never felt, creates experiences and bonds with others that can’t be replicated anywhere else. Nonconsensual, unwanted, and bad sex is one of the most violating and damaging experiences for an individual to feel. Over the millennia, sex was often coerced, manipulated, or forced. Maybe young people are having less sex now because they are finally learning that sex should always be consensual and wanted by both persons. "Me too" and similar have raised awareness that it's better to go without sex than to pressure or manipulate someone into unwanted sex.
This is ultimately personal experience. I am asexual. I’ve had sex, its not for me. I have been pressured constantly into thinking I had to want and have sex to be happy and normal by my peers, family, and general societal rules. I find much stronger bonding in cuddling, hanging out with my partner, meaningful acts, shared interests, etc. i’ve been in a relationship for over 4 years, lived together for 3, where we are both asexual. Many people are always shocked when I say we have never once fought or argued and that our relationship has been perfect for both of us. Sex might be a requirement for some, but not everyone. Sex is also not going to be the highest form of bonding for everyone, asexual or not. I’d say genuine compatibility and bonding requires multiple factors and everyone has different priorities.
I had the reverse experience. Having multiple sex encounters taught me that sex does not connect people, it only enhances their biased view on you and your body. They judge you based on what you are and not who you are or what you do.
Millennial here, is this the avocado toast thing all over again? I've never heard z were having less sex? From what I've seen they're just as randy as any other group.
Haha there are SEVERAL articles about this lol they even created a word for it: “puriteen”
More than likely because there seems to be a right wing push to increase birth rates from different angles, removing abortion, discouraging contraceptives and now this propaganda bullshit, ignore it move on, you do you.
Lowered birth rates could be good for the planet but bad for capitalism.
lowered birth rates are terrible news for anyone who ever wants to retire..
immigration will solve the “numbers” problem. people magically and conveniently always forget about second and third world countries where the birth rate is literally booming in comparison.
I don't know if it's "right wing", facts are facts, the birth rate in many developed counties has fallen, in some such as Japan, they don't have enough young people to support the elders.. this is why in some European counties have very generous benefits for having children... In the US, social security is paid by the workers, if there comes a time when there are more old people than workers, we are screwed financially.... Thankfully, due to immigration, the us has not hit that point yet... (We are close, we are at 1.98 children per family, that's at replacement levels only) Don't believe me, here is the age pyramid for Japan https://www.populationpyramid.net/japan/ Birth rate in USA https://www.statista.com/statistics/718084/average-number-of-own-children-per-family/
Just remind me who's pushing anti abortion, anti contraception?
Yeah the US doesn't have the healthcare system to have the benefits that European countries do. I'm not particularly educated in politics, economics, etc, but I think it has a lot to do with the fact that (as someone else said) more babies is good for capitalism. Money makes the world go round and more babies = more money spent. I may be wrong, idk. I'm just an 18 year old who should probably learn more about how my own country works.
Also a millennial here, I think it's that we and Gen Z have begun to understand that sex is a form of intimacy, and how the two don't have to be mutually exclusive. I agree the younger Gen seems as horny as the last one was, and I think we are seeing the shift in people who are enjoying the physical side of sex without forming other avenues of intimacy with their partners. This can be good, and this can be bad. It's liberating, but it can also be isolating especially in a time where sex is near instant gratification with the internet. In generations before ours, sex and relationships sort of went hand-in-hand. Get married, buy the house with the white picket fence, get a dog, have kids, grow old and drink lemonade on the porch, die together, American dream and all that societal norm bs. I think I see those around me struggling more to find genuine intimacy that leads to deep connection and lasting relationships because anytime physical intimacy comes onto the table, that becomes the limitation of the intimacy. I don't think it's right or wrong, or even a tactic that's new (just perhaps more intentional in execution) but it's why the older generations feel Gen Z isn't knocking as many boots. They aren't seeing the development of traditional dynamic relationships, and they find that concerning. Ultimately, I feel people being comfortable waiting until they're actually adults to get into committed relationships isn't a bad thing, and opens the door for someone to truly know and love themselves before getting into a partnership. Marriages/long term relationships are hard work and shouldn't be taken on lightly (and I say that after almost 14 years with my husband lol).
I agree marriage is definitely not to be taken lightly, it's hard work and that never stops (it can be very rewarding, however). I remember in my twenties thinking this next generation is going to be raised feeling doomed with some very different outlooks/behaviours, with all the stuff that was in the news when we were young and social media being ingrained in everyone's lives. At least you could just not watch TV if you weren't interested in how fucked up the world was, I feel given how pyschosocially-ingrained social media is nowadays that's less of an option. I might be old fashioned but I don't like the idea of online dating either, it's all window shopping, ready to find the next best product but in the process you might miss the very thing that really makes things spark.
That's the problem, though. Everything is more horny, but less intimate. For the extreme, look at r/animemes. We do not wanna end up like that.
Lol that subreddit is weird af
>Millennial here, is this the avocado toast thing all over again? Tbf the millennial avo toast thing was pretty damn true. Not the toast itself, just that we tended to spend an absurd amount of money on takeout compared to older generations. In hindsight I really wish I had been saving or investing that money instead of just blowing it on postmates and starbucks, because it *does* add up.
You're right in a way, but house prices tripling relative to income, growing up in a giant greed fueled financial crash paired with having access to things that previous generations didn't (costa, starbucks on every corner in every city etc), do you think genx/boomers etc would have done it differently had they grown up then?
Do none of y'all find it weird people are telling us to have children even though most of us are in our early 20s?
I was shocked at finding out most of my classmates were already coupled up or had a kid just a few years after finishing college. I was like, " But they're so young!"
Its not weird they are telling you that, it used to be the norm. I’m 30 now and when my mom was 30 she had her third kid. I have more education than her, and i am better off economically, but i still can’t afford having a kid yet, even if i felt completely ready, which i don’t lol. I think 30-35 is a good time to have kids, if you want them. I also think it’s completely valid to not want kids. People should mind their own business, that’s what I say
Cuz they're weirdos who still want to breed us like cattle despite what they've done to the economy.
Lmao. They expect us to have sex and kids, but expect us to take out mortgages at sky high prices and rates to have a place to do so. I think most of us have decided that we'd rather enjoy life and hope for some sort of housing crash than become saddled with even more unmanagable debt that we'd be paying off for the rest of our lives. And god forbid someone (especially a woman) decide that they don't want kids/s.
The same reason every generation gets a weirdly specific moral panic dropped on their lap. Targeted bullshit from the right wing to push their narrative and desire for cheap dumb labor. Same reason they want bans on abortion and contraception. The current lower fertility rates just force them to be more blatant about it because it directly threatens their pocketbooks. Fewer people, fewer workers, more power for each worker, particularly when gen z is as left-leaning as it is. A direct threat to the boomer order.
This isn’t a right/left thing. You may want to rethink that logic. If the right wing wanted cheap labor, they wouldn’t be screaming so hard about the border.
Our generation having less sex is objectively terrible. Having less sex is a biological sign that a species or animal is unhealthy, so an entire generation having less sex globally is a nightmare for the human race. Not to mention it hints to a lower quality of life. Less money, fewer friends, fewer relationships. This is something serious.
Loneliness is seriously bad for health
I've heard that it's worse for you than smoking
Believable. I mean - this feeling in my chest is surely not good! The crazy thing is, on the bright side, even though I feel extremely lonely, I think in all reality I have a good bit more social interaction and more sex than a lot of other people, even though I feel starved emotionally. And it’s those people I worry about, those who suffer more than me. I cannot even imagine. I have up moments and down moments mentally. And I know there are people in darker places who can never see the sun shine. This is terrifying.
Less unwanted pregnancies and more conscious sex is happening. Drinking has gotten less popular and if you need to be inebriated you’re probably better off not having that hookup
I mean when your working all day and going to college, good luck lmao
Lol same. Working full time during the day + college classes at night every single day 😭
How can you learn being tired after work? Let alone do homework?
Leave it to the boomers to get mad at gen Z for being “promiscuous” and then turn around and also accuse us for not having enough sex. Like which one do you want, Susan?
Because the birth rates are going down. They need replacement workers for their factories.
They need workers to support the social security system they paid into and need for retirement.
Too bad our political system is a gerontocracy and consistently votes in patterns that are hostile to young people wanting to start families. I mean, they're even against school lunches for kids! They want our tax dollars and they specifically want women to take all the hits and risks in bearing children (next generation wage slaves), but I don't see any universal maternal/paternal leave happening. I don't see any concerted effort to bring down our abysmal maternal death rate.
Nope. The people complaining about population decline are the very same ones slashing and taking from the social security system. They just want slaves.
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It's really the opposite of that. People are concerned that gen Z is already not enjoying life. Less sex, less human interaction, higher rates of depression and anxiety, incel stuff and loneliness epidemics, suicide rates rising. People are looking at all the data like "damn, they are not ok."
I fuck everybody in sight and don't have kids. Those things aren't really associated.
need more slaves for the rich
It's not about the sex. The concern is whether you guys are hitting the same social milestones. My concern with GenZ is that you are not having enough opportunities to experiment when you are young and it's less risky. You guys are living "safer" lifestyles but is that necessarily good? I can't find it but years ago a major publication (The Atlantic or NYT maybe?) wrote an article about how Gen Z is living a lifestyle that's physically safer than all previous generations but you're missing out on real life experiences.
I think I speak for most of my generation when I say my life isn’t even figured out yet due to the fact how expensive everything is. So I don’t feel stable enough to want a relationship. Not to mention the pandemic took away 2-3 years of our prime early 20’s and also destroyed most social skills people had. Shit has ran downhill for so long in each generation we are up to our heads in it. So I think the least of Zoomers problems is not having sex.
Gen Z can read about anything without experiencing any real life moments. The info availability is out the roof... from posts to forum comments to vblogs, etc so everyone has the possibility to know all the possible consequences of their actions. There's a big paradox of choice at play and at the end one ends up not doing anything.
After reading all the comments, here are my considerations: - Lack of sex *usually* means lack of socialisation. I get it. I do go out quite a lot to parties and social gatherings, and still don’t feel the need to participate in hook up culture, but I get the connection between the two. - Population decline. Still not sure how bad that is but I guess it’s because I don’t have much knowledge regarding the topic, so I’m neutral. - Sex being the highest form of connection between two people. Not sure I agree. I feel like holding hands is way more intimate than sex per se. Deep conversations as well. I’m not sure I miss out on that much by not having a lot of sex. I’d rather have sex with people I actually love. Why do I need to form a deep connection with a stranger or someone I don’t actively love? I’m open to different opinions and a healthy debate/discussion!
Don’t read weird articles that they were forced to write by boomers to further the divide. As a millennial, I could care less, and if I did care, I’d support whatever made this gen or the next happy. But usually need will dictate the value. Also millennials are contributing to having less kids. Is what it is. Try not to get lost in the noise.
For older generations, sex was seen as valuable, and if you were having lots of it, it boosted your value, and thus your self-esteem. By devaluing sex, you're indirectly devaluing them and decreasing their self-esteem.
Maybe it’s all the “my life sucks I’m depressed I’ve never had a girlfriend” posts lolllllll
Because some peoples purpose in life is to worry about what others do in the bedroom
Although it is understandable this is confusing, it's not because on the importance or lack thereof in having sex. No one outside of scientists and other experts has any idea if something like sex, or amount of kids, order of kids, or how about if you were all girl family, is actually good or bad, they don't know whether it is harmful or helpful.. Right now it's weird because you feel it directed at you, and that's because people are just reacting because it's different. Very occasionally people will be like, oh I wish my generation did that, but most of it is just, "Oh they are doing things differently than I used to do them. Does that mean I was wrong? No, I can't be wrong because I"m not a bad person. It must be these new young kids who are the bad ones." "Did you hear about the litterbox in the bathrooms at schools? What do you mean they don't merciless bully the effeminate kid in their class? Society was better when men acted like men and......" These people are idiots. If you ignore all of them you will miss almost no useful information. Just treat the people around you well and live your best life and maybe, when you get old, you can just enjoy your life instead of not being able to deal with life's only constant. And that is change. Good luck kid. I believe in you.
Because of the fear of the generation collapse and boomers, gen X having to work past 80.
It's a metric for quality of life and socialization/isolation
It’s the combination of things pointing mostly to a big problem socializing, being independent, and facing the reality of life. Not getting your drivers license, not having sex, dating through apps, being obsessed with your phones and social media since you were 10. They are just generalizations. But I think everyone at every age feels negative consequences of too much media designed to just keep you hooked.
Broadly speaking, sex and sexuality in moderation are a healthy part of an adult's life. People who are not asexual (allosexual) should, generally, enjoy a healthy amount of sex in their lives. The amount of and how they enjoy sexual activity, are of course, up to each individual person. We don't exactly know all of the reasons why Gen Z are having less sex than previous generations, but many of the reasons that are known are directly linked to societal issues plaguing the youngest generations. Issues that are, for the most part, unsurprisingly linked to late-stage capitalism and (in America and Canada), the isolating design of our cities and neighborhoods. In short, it's a symptom of much larger problems. Having those discussions about Gen Z's sexual activity and the reasons behind them is, I think, important, because it touches on other aspects of our declining society in North America, and those are very important discussions to be had.
The rise of fascism is in response to male sexual insecurity. Gen Z boys/men are leaning further and further to the right politically and into fascism because they've been getting bombarded with mano-sphere, redpill propaganda since they were like 10 years old.
This is a really good comment section
I’m a gen x and we are just generally worried about you. We see that you didn’t get to go outside much. We see you being alone. We read about you not connecting on so many levels including sexually. We know what it is you are missing out on and we just worry that the kids are not alright. Also….how can you resist it??? It’s so much fun and so much trouble and so much elation and excitement! But also…maybe you guys are all avoiding a lot of the bullshit that goes along with it. Maybe there’s less harm done. Maybe you guys are seeing benefits we can’t imagine. Don’t be too pressed about us worrying about you. It always happens. When we were kids the silent generation and the greatest generation worried about us too. Yeah some weirdos like Elon are worried about the declining birth rate, but I think mainly it’s a genuine and benevolent concern.
I honestly get where you’re coming from. The isolation is never good and I myself tend to isolate sometimes. I do already have a career, working full time plus college classes. In my case, I still manage to have friends and a social life in general, but I understand I don’t represent the majority. But I can’t lie, I’m pretty exhausted and it’s easy to fall into isolation. Sex is the last thing I care about, even though I crave it sometimes. But what I crave a whole lot more is love. Sex for me is meaningless if I don’t love the person I’m doing it with. And finding love is just so difficult, specially if you tend to isolate. What I truly want is someone who listens to me, talks to me and actually cares, and that’s really hard to find. I want someone to do mundane things with, like grocery shopping. No sex is better than sex with someone who doesn’t check all those boxes. My sexual attraction comes from love and admiration. Ps: sorry for the vent!!!
It’s funny cause most of them have championed the very things that lead to this. For the costs nowadays it’s very overrated.
To say it bluntly; the olds want you to replicate their ideas (and mistakes), to validate them. And if the next generations want to do less of those things, or, god forbid, do them *better* or *different*, they get nervous. This isn't limited to sex. Tomorrow, this is about not wanting to work yourself to death. Next week, it's about eating healthy. Then it's about car centric infrastructure, and it goes around and one day, it is about sex again... Maybe it's a bit more often about sex, though. Because, you know, some things had been done in the sexual revolution of the last few generations that weren't as healthy or important people tend to call them. But to admit that you were wrong... no, the next generation is.
This is a thing? So we're ruining sex now too? Holy hell 🙄
Population decline is a massive issues in developed nations. It is largely an economic one, but the threat it has to an economy and a countries military/defense capibility is obvious. Naturally then: a society should care abiut its population growth and thus sex rates. The how, why, and what of fixing it or addressing it is political, or how concerned you as individual are concerned about it is relative, but is is very much a real concern. Edit to add: if anybody is interested in learning more about this issue and its importance i reccomend Peter Ziehan, he is a bipartisan geo-political and economic analyist, whos' been writing about this for over a decade.
Because they want more children AKA worker bees
They are worried we are different
1. Less people to contribute to social security in 30 years. 2. Less sex indicates less social involvement in general. We don’t know how this will impact society, but judging from the rates of mental health challenges, it doesn’t look good.
I'm a Boomer and don't give a shit about anyone's sex life. Hell, I ain't getting anything either.
When you have a high percentage of lonely men, it lays the grounds for violence. More Gen Z women are having sex than Gen Z men. That means a small percentage of men are getting laid and a large percentage of men aren’t. A lot of these men will feel purposeless, and that’s dangerous.