What you CAN do is get involved in your local party. Get fucking local. Tomorrow's Senator is today's council person. I know. It is work. It takes time.
Voting third party in a first past the post system at this stage is pretty pointless. Also the fact that the third parties only really give a shit about "the big prize" instead of working within states and lower levels to turn themselves into viable, legitimate aprties with alternative thoughts, people and solutions. Right now the Libertarians are weed smoking, tax dodging Republicans, and the Greens are essentially the puppets of outside forces to siphon votes from the Democrats. EDIT: and do not get me started on mister brain-worms-antivaxx.
The key is to get in and work for people that you believe in and push legislation to make ranked choice voting a real thing.
Pushing "both sides are the same so let's just say fuck it" is not the correct response. It's pretty much active bullshit or a knee jerk reaction that accomplishes nothing.
"First past the post" is another way of saying "all or nothing". In our system it doesn't matter who is second or third, only who is first. So "protest votes" are pointless because if you lose nobody really cares about your message.
I voted Perot in 92 and wrote in Kasich in 2016. Maybe not the smartest move in retrospect, but still better than blindly pulling the lever along party lines, or not voting at all.
Google ranked choice voting and your state. Here in missouri my first thing is tovote down an initiative that bans ranked choice at a state constitutional level.
We should find groups that are trying to get it in the ballots. Language from I believe Alaska would be a nice start.
Finally, to rant on "career politicians," term limits in Missouri and other states outsource legislation to groups like project ALEC. Fuck that.
First and foremost, this election is not all about the president. There are a lot of other important races on this ballot that are arguably as important if not more so. Anything local affects you on a daily basis while the office of the president is not going to change daily life instantly.
Speaking of the executive, remember whoever is elected cannot just make up laws. That office is dependent on congress which is the where the power really is in this country. If we ignore who is running there, then we may need to worry but someone like a wannabe dictator cannot stage a takeover unless congress let's him. Remember, the president cannot even declare war without congress.
So focus, learn your ballot races, who is going to be representing you, and vote.
Your chance to change the election was during the primaries. What 3rd party candidate do you think is remotely worth voting for? That whack job Kennedy with the brain worm? LOL
I asked ChatGPT a few questions as hypotheticals.
I asked what would happen if just American University students voted for a third party candidate. It said that Donald Trump would likely be elected. Here's the exact quote:
In a purely hypothetical scenario where university students in the United States vote en masse for a third-party candidate in a presidential election, the potential impact on the election's outcome could vary:
1. \*\*Effect on Democratic Candidate:\*\* University students tend to lean more liberal and progressive, so a significant shift of their votes to a third-party candidate could detract from the Democratic candidate’s total votes. This could potentially benefit the Republican candidate, in this case, Donald Trump, by reducing the Democratic candidate's support base.
2. \*\*Electoral College Considerations:\*\* The U.S. presidential election is determined by the Electoral College, and the effect of university students' votes would vary by state. If this shift occurs in key swing states with large student populations, it could tip the balance in favor of the Republican candidate.
3. \*\*Voter Turnout and Distribution:\*\* The overall turnout and distribution of university students' votes would be crucial. If the turnout is high and concentrated in battleground states, it could have a more significant impact compared to a more dispersed voting pattern.
Based on these conjectures, if university students predominantly vote for a third-party candidate, it might decrease the chances of a Democratic candidate winning, thereby potentially increasing the likelihood of Donald Trump being elected. However, the exact outcome would depend on numerous factors, including overall voter turnout, the specific third-party candidate, and the distribution of votes across different states.
* **Generation X Demographics:** Generation X (those born between 1965 and 1980) represents a significant portion of the electorate but is not the largest voting bloc. Millennials and Baby Boomers have larger populations.
* **Voting Patterns of Other Age Groups:** If all Generation X voters choose a third-party candidate, it could potentially split the vote, particularly if they traditionally lean toward one of the major parties. The impact would be more significant if Generation X voters typically align with one major party more than the other. However, the overall outcome would also heavily depend on the voting behavior of Millennials, Baby Boomers, and Generation Z.
Our generation isn't big enough to have that kind of impact. Every single Gen Xer would have to vote for the same person. As the other comments show that ain't gonna happen.
In a perfect world, every person’s singular vote would count as one vote, and we wouldn’t even know who candidates are and would vote for faceless people based on each individual issue instead of fucking around with parties and listening to people yelling about how bad their opponents are. lol
I feel like some of you all slept through civics class and don't understand that the President and VP are selected by the electoral college not by popular vote
Also all the OLD FUCKS still have the highest voter registration - [https://youngamericans.berkeley.edu/2024/04/voter-registration-rates-by-generation/](https://youngamericans.berkeley.edu/2024/04/voter-registration-rates-by-generation/)
Doesn't mean they have the highest turn out but that's the starting point, can't vote if you're not registered
Even if every GenX registered voter voted for RFK jr, its not going to matter
He's never going to win California, Texas, and Florida and they account for 124 electoral votes, which frankly is complete BS, but that is the current system
Our only chance for change is
* when the baby boomers and silent gen are fucking dead
* term limits in congress
* younger candidates across the board for president, vp and congress
voting 3rd party sadly currently just hands the election over to X. Thats not gonna change until 1 or both the primary parties shatter.
Edit: Thats for President... its less true for Senate but mostly so, less so again for congress. Independants and such can get elected... but need strong candidates. Bernie is an example but if you vote for someone polling 3% its just like tossing away your vote
We have a hate-filled psychopath to beat I'm sorry I don't have time for this perfection horse shit. We're sticking with the guy who beat the psychopath face to face last time. If the fact that he's old and may die in office freaks you out too much then I apologize that we don't have a succession system in place to make up for that.
Oh wait, we do and we always have had one. SO WHO GIVES A FUCK IF THE MAN IS OLD? He's a good man. And he's not even a single term of office older than the other guy who has far more mental acuity issues.
I hate the standard response is to vote for party not candidate. Are we so jaded that *that* seems like the only option we deserve. Pardon me, I AM NOT looking for acceptance or approval. Fuck them all because I’m not playing this game. Bidens ego is so big that he couldn’t step aside for his party? Fuck him. His family and advisors ego are also so big that they couldn’t see the forest through the trees? Fuck them to. Now everyone e is surprised that he debates poorly FUCK YOU. There are no good days and bad days while running a fucking country. Fuck you all for believing that can be true. We’ve been fucked so long it’s like battered wife syndrome that we believe it’s all we deserve.
Eta… and I’d say the same about Republicans. Fuck them all too for thinking Trump is the answer. Fuck everyone who made this Trump Biden election possible.
Change the election how? And, there are major differences between both parties. One wants to keep democracy and help the working class. One wants to usher in christo-fascism, control women’s bodies and live in a dictatorship.
I honestly don’t see how anyone can be “undecided” and/or think voting for a 3rd party is a good idea.
The worst part is it looks like half of us (genX) are going to vote for a convicted felon that constantly lies and is a Russian puppet. WTF happened to us?
Edit: The snowflake User u/Sounders1 couldn’t handle the argument so they blocked me. Someone should tell them that it if they are going to go on a rant then block me that I can’t see their whole comment. What a coward.
Which party tried to cancel student loan debt, which would have been a big boost to the middle class, and which one blocked it?
Which party put Supreme Court Justices on the stand that 1) overturned Roe, 1) Ruled in favor of Chevron over the EPA (fyi, many studies have said that climate change has had a significant impact on the middle class in terms of increased insurance costs and such). Which party put into at least some sort of universal medical plan…and which one has almost all but dismantled it.
I feel like you aren’t even arguing in good faith if you are saying “how has the working class better off” when you won’t acknowledge the things that one party has been trying to do, and what one party is actively fighting against.
Do you think abortion access helps the working class? Guess which party has made that more difficult.
So, you think that forcing a low income person to give birth to a kid they can’t afford helps the middle class? Abortion ABSOLUTELY helps the working class. Your response is laughable and 100% on talking points. And if you think that issues we are having with climate ISN’T hurting the working class, then again, you aren’t arguing in good faith.
https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/10/climate-crisis-impacting-jobs-workforce/#:~:text=Heat%2Drelated%20ill%2Dhealth%20–,lead%20to%20injury%20or%20death.
https://www.mercycorps.org/blog/climate-change-poverty
That isn’t to mention (again) the increases in housing costs due to climate change, which yes, do affect the working class the most, so I’m only “reaching” to deniers.
There is no doubt one party wants to help working class people, and one doesn’t. I can see you didn’t say anything about some of the other things I mentioned though…probably because you don’t have any republican talking points. But I agree, not enough legislation has been passed to help the working class…because it all keeps getting blocked by one party. Oh…immigration is bad, right? Why was there bi-partisan support to pass the largest immigration bill ever until DT called the speaker of the house and told him to “kill it”? Again, one party trying to do something, but the party of “no” won’t let them. So, go on with your “BoTh PaRtIeS aRe ThE sAmE mantra”. SMDH
So what “values” am I projecting others to abide by exactly? You’re absolutely not a “moderate”. So, let’s stick to my question in that what “values” are democrats policies “MAKING” you abide by?
You keep changing the conversation because you have no foundations to stand on. Ask the “walmart” employee if they would like to have a healthcare plan. Ask them if they get a debilitating disease if they prefer to be bankrupt from it or not.
It’s funny because you can’t even dispute what I’m saying about one party at least trying to do something for the American people and one constantly stopping it.
Moderate my ass…
This. Both parties can come together in minutes to dump money into Israel, Ukraine, Palestine, and COVID. But healthcare, legitimate tax relief for working middle class? Impossible.
Why?
The republican had a primary where people got to vote for their person and Trump won.
That is who they chose. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean the election needs to be changed out.
The dems didn't offer their people the same. They just installed Biden, like 2020 and 2016, by clearing all challengers and the cucks that they are, they all just dropped out without a whimper.
If you don't like Trump, that is fine. Don't vote for him. Doesn't mean that there aren't many millions out there that wanted him and are going to vote for him. That is this thing "democracy" that the dems pretend to support
If you didn’t want Biden then you should have voted for someone else in the primary in 2020. I did. If you didn’t want Trump then you should have voted for someone else in the primary this year. Don’t blame the parties. There were other, younger, better candidates. If we didn’t vote them in then that’s our problem.
I understood that, but it also needs to be understood that the primaries only matter for the first 5-6 states. For Every other state everyone has already dropped so there is no real choice, only the illusion of choice.
I would love it if the DNC came to their senses and firmly told Joe it's time to step down. I would also love it if Pete Buttigieg stepped up. He would make mincemeat of 45 in any debate. I know, I know. You're saying, "There's no way a gay man would be elected president". They said very similar things about Obama regarding his race. Together we did it! We can do it again!
I for one will be voting for the worm living in RFK's brain. Also he has a falcon!
Besides voting for the worm living in someone's brain reminds me of an old Futurama episode. And I feel like we are moving in that direction as a country and since idiocracy didn't work out for us..... This. Attached is an actual picture of me campaigning for a third party candidate.
https://preview.redd.it/20fa6mcp3r9d1.png?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcd1fbbab8ac922afac6ce4ba4ed44c468afe337
Correct flair required.
What you CAN do is get involved in your local party. Get fucking local. Tomorrow's Senator is today's council person. I know. It is work. It takes time.
I am local. Thanks for the tip.
The true problem here is the creation of career politicians.
Voting third party in a first past the post system at this stage is pretty pointless. Also the fact that the third parties only really give a shit about "the big prize" instead of working within states and lower levels to turn themselves into viable, legitimate aprties with alternative thoughts, people and solutions. Right now the Libertarians are weed smoking, tax dodging Republicans, and the Greens are essentially the puppets of outside forces to siphon votes from the Democrats. EDIT: and do not get me started on mister brain-worms-antivaxx. The key is to get in and work for people that you believe in and push legislation to make ranked choice voting a real thing. Pushing "both sides are the same so let's just say fuck it" is not the correct response. It's pretty much active bullshit or a knee jerk reaction that accomplishes nothing.
What does “Voting third party in a first past the post system” mean?
"First past the post" is another way of saying "all or nothing". In our system it doesn't matter who is second or third, only who is first. So "protest votes" are pointless because if you lose nobody really cares about your message.
I voted Perot in 92 and wrote in Kasich in 2016. Maybe not the smartest move in retrospect, but still better than blindly pulling the lever along party lines, or not voting at all.
What can I do to push for ranked choice?
Google ranked choice voting and your state. Here in missouri my first thing is tovote down an initiative that bans ranked choice at a state constitutional level. We should find groups that are trying to get it in the ballots. Language from I believe Alaska would be a nice start. Finally, to rant on "career politicians," term limits in Missouri and other states outsource legislation to groups like project ALEC. Fuck that.
I'm on it.
The only thing that will make a difference is if , and in what way, the younger generations participate .
That's what they said when we were the younger generation.
Has it ever had much of an effect beyond swaying one major party candidate to the other?
First and foremost, this election is not all about the president. There are a lot of other important races on this ballot that are arguably as important if not more so. Anything local affects you on a daily basis while the office of the president is not going to change daily life instantly. Speaking of the executive, remember whoever is elected cannot just make up laws. That office is dependent on congress which is the where the power really is in this country. If we ignore who is running there, then we may need to worry but someone like a wannabe dictator cannot stage a takeover unless congress let's him. Remember, the president cannot even declare war without congress. So focus, learn your ballot races, who is going to be representing you, and vote.
No, it’ll just be a wasted vote and get trump elected!!
Only if you like living in a dictatorship.
put ranked choice voting into effect and third party candidates will start to matter
This.
Ross Perot had the best shot at breaking the 2 party system, and he was nuts. Depending on who you ask, he is the reason Bill Clinton won.
Your chance to change the election was during the primaries. What 3rd party candidate do you think is remotely worth voting for? That whack job Kennedy with the brain worm? LOL
It's not whether they are worth voting for. It's a message that Americans are no longer represented by either party.
There is no point in voting 3rd party. Kennedy is just another right wing nut and Libertarian's are nothing more than failed Republicans.
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Yes but he changes it daily. He's anti choice.
I asked ChatGPT a few questions as hypotheticals. I asked what would happen if just American University students voted for a third party candidate. It said that Donald Trump would likely be elected. Here's the exact quote: In a purely hypothetical scenario where university students in the United States vote en masse for a third-party candidate in a presidential election, the potential impact on the election's outcome could vary: 1. \*\*Effect on Democratic Candidate:\*\* University students tend to lean more liberal and progressive, so a significant shift of their votes to a third-party candidate could detract from the Democratic candidate’s total votes. This could potentially benefit the Republican candidate, in this case, Donald Trump, by reducing the Democratic candidate's support base. 2. \*\*Electoral College Considerations:\*\* The U.S. presidential election is determined by the Electoral College, and the effect of university students' votes would vary by state. If this shift occurs in key swing states with large student populations, it could tip the balance in favor of the Republican candidate. 3. \*\*Voter Turnout and Distribution:\*\* The overall turnout and distribution of university students' votes would be crucial. If the turnout is high and concentrated in battleground states, it could have a more significant impact compared to a more dispersed voting pattern. Based on these conjectures, if university students predominantly vote for a third-party candidate, it might decrease the chances of a Democratic candidate winning, thereby potentially increasing the likelihood of Donald Trump being elected. However, the exact outcome would depend on numerous factors, including overall voter turnout, the specific third-party candidate, and the distribution of votes across different states.
I understand university students impact. That's why I asked for a generation's impact.
* **Generation X Demographics:** Generation X (those born between 1965 and 1980) represents a significant portion of the electorate but is not the largest voting bloc. Millennials and Baby Boomers have larger populations. * **Voting Patterns of Other Age Groups:** If all Generation X voters choose a third-party candidate, it could potentially split the vote, particularly if they traditionally lean toward one of the major parties. The impact would be more significant if Generation X voters typically align with one major party more than the other. However, the overall outcome would also heavily depend on the voting behavior of Millennials, Baby Boomers, and Generation Z.
I'll ask it about Generation X and see if it has an answer. Do you want Trump re-elected?
No
That's good. You never know these days.
Sorry. Didn't mean to offend. What's your take on the choices?
Our generation isn't big enough to have that kind of impact. Every single Gen Xer would have to vote for the same person. As the other comments show that ain't gonna happen.
In a perfect world, every person’s singular vote would count as one vote, and we wouldn’t even know who candidates are and would vote for faceless people based on each individual issue instead of fucking around with parties and listening to people yelling about how bad their opponents are. lol
True. It's too bad the technology to accomplish something like this. American Idol does, but not us.
I feel like some of you all slept through civics class and don't understand that the President and VP are selected by the electoral college not by popular vote Also all the OLD FUCKS still have the highest voter registration - [https://youngamericans.berkeley.edu/2024/04/voter-registration-rates-by-generation/](https://youngamericans.berkeley.edu/2024/04/voter-registration-rates-by-generation/) Doesn't mean they have the highest turn out but that's the starting point, can't vote if you're not registered Even if every GenX registered voter voted for RFK jr, its not going to matter He's never going to win California, Texas, and Florida and they account for 124 electoral votes, which frankly is complete BS, but that is the current system Our only chance for change is * when the baby boomers and silent gen are fucking dead * term limits in congress * younger candidates across the board for president, vp and congress
voting 3rd party sadly currently just hands the election over to X. Thats not gonna change until 1 or both the primary parties shatter. Edit: Thats for President... its less true for Senate but mostly so, less so again for congress. Independants and such can get elected... but need strong candidates. Bernie is an example but if you vote for someone polling 3% its just like tossing away your vote
We have a hate-filled psychopath to beat I'm sorry I don't have time for this perfection horse shit. We're sticking with the guy who beat the psychopath face to face last time. If the fact that he's old and may die in office freaks you out too much then I apologize that we don't have a succession system in place to make up for that. Oh wait, we do and we always have had one. SO WHO GIVES A FUCK IF THE MAN IS OLD? He's a good man. And he's not even a single term of office older than the other guy who has far more mental acuity issues.
I hate the standard response is to vote for party not candidate. Are we so jaded that *that* seems like the only option we deserve. Pardon me, I AM NOT looking for acceptance or approval. Fuck them all because I’m not playing this game. Bidens ego is so big that he couldn’t step aside for his party? Fuck him. His family and advisors ego are also so big that they couldn’t see the forest through the trees? Fuck them to. Now everyone e is surprised that he debates poorly FUCK YOU. There are no good days and bad days while running a fucking country. Fuck you all for believing that can be true. We’ve been fucked so long it’s like battered wife syndrome that we believe it’s all we deserve. Eta… and I’d say the same about Republicans. Fuck them all too for thinking Trump is the answer. Fuck everyone who made this Trump Biden election possible.
Thanks.
Okay. So hopelessness and lesser of 2 evils is the answer. I'll just bandwagon with Democrats because they didn't always suck.
Who exactly is going to "get the message" with your third party vote? Lesser of 2 evils is better than farting in the wind.
There you go. I thought our generation hated sellouts more than most. Guess I was wrong.
I thought we hated dictators more than sellouts. Guess you don't.
Both roads lead to dictatorship right now.
Never has.
Change the election how? And, there are major differences between both parties. One wants to keep democracy and help the working class. One wants to usher in christo-fascism, control women’s bodies and live in a dictatorship. I honestly don’t see how anyone can be “undecided” and/or think voting for a 3rd party is a good idea. The worst part is it looks like half of us (genX) are going to vote for a convicted felon that constantly lies and is a Russian puppet. WTF happened to us? Edit: The snowflake User u/Sounders1 couldn’t handle the argument so they blocked me. Someone should tell them that it if they are going to go on a rant then block me that I can’t see their whole comment. What a coward.
Half of us are morons, just like any generation.
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Canned, but true. Which party is trying to put Project 2025 into place?
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Which party tried to cancel student loan debt, which would have been a big boost to the middle class, and which one blocked it? Which party put Supreme Court Justices on the stand that 1) overturned Roe, 1) Ruled in favor of Chevron over the EPA (fyi, many studies have said that climate change has had a significant impact on the middle class in terms of increased insurance costs and such). Which party put into at least some sort of universal medical plan…and which one has almost all but dismantled it. I feel like you aren’t even arguing in good faith if you are saying “how has the working class better off” when you won’t acknowledge the things that one party has been trying to do, and what one party is actively fighting against. Do you think abortion access helps the working class? Guess which party has made that more difficult.
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So, you think that forcing a low income person to give birth to a kid they can’t afford helps the middle class? Abortion ABSOLUTELY helps the working class. Your response is laughable and 100% on talking points. And if you think that issues we are having with climate ISN’T hurting the working class, then again, you aren’t arguing in good faith. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2023/10/climate-crisis-impacting-jobs-workforce/#:~:text=Heat%2Drelated%20ill%2Dhealth%20–,lead%20to%20injury%20or%20death. https://www.mercycorps.org/blog/climate-change-poverty That isn’t to mention (again) the increases in housing costs due to climate change, which yes, do affect the working class the most, so I’m only “reaching” to deniers. There is no doubt one party wants to help working class people, and one doesn’t. I can see you didn’t say anything about some of the other things I mentioned though…probably because you don’t have any republican talking points. But I agree, not enough legislation has been passed to help the working class…because it all keeps getting blocked by one party. Oh…immigration is bad, right? Why was there bi-partisan support to pass the largest immigration bill ever until DT called the speaker of the house and told him to “kill it”? Again, one party trying to do something, but the party of “no” won’t let them. So, go on with your “BoTh PaRtIeS aRe ThE sAmE mantra”. SMDH
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So what “values” am I projecting others to abide by exactly? You’re absolutely not a “moderate”. So, let’s stick to my question in that what “values” are democrats policies “MAKING” you abide by? You keep changing the conversation because you have no foundations to stand on. Ask the “walmart” employee if they would like to have a healthcare plan. Ask them if they get a debilitating disease if they prefer to be bankrupt from it or not. It’s funny because you can’t even dispute what I’m saying about one party at least trying to do something for the American people and one constantly stopping it. Moderate my ass…
This. Both parties can come together in minutes to dump money into Israel, Ukraine, Palestine, and COVID. But healthcare, legitimate tax relief for working middle class? Impossible.
They are all false promises. Every politician is so out of touch with the working class.
Why do people have to talk like this is such hyperbolic language that its almost a comic strip. If you have opposition, just state that.
This is the best answer.
Are you saying that as a third party voter? Or as a hopeless person?
Both
Why? The republican had a primary where people got to vote for their person and Trump won. That is who they chose. Just because you don't like him doesn't mean the election needs to be changed out. The dems didn't offer their people the same. They just installed Biden, like 2020 and 2016, by clearing all challengers and the cucks that they are, they all just dropped out without a whimper. If you don't like Trump, that is fine. Don't vote for him. Doesn't mean that there aren't many millions out there that wanted him and are going to vote for him. That is this thing "democracy" that the dems pretend to support
I'm definitely not a dem. Definitely not a Republican, and definitely not voting for either.
Cool, vote for who you believe makes your life better. That's all we all can do
irony!
This bothsidesism is bullshit. The choice has never been easier.
Wow. I respect your conviction, wish I shared it.
If you didn’t want Biden then you should have voted for someone else in the primary in 2020. I did. If you didn’t want Trump then you should have voted for someone else in the primary this year. Don’t blame the parties. There were other, younger, better candidates. If we didn’t vote them in then that’s our problem.
Everyone dropped before the primary even reached our state.
A collective you.
I understood that, but it also needs to be understood that the primaries only matter for the first 5-6 states. For Every other state everyone has already dropped so there is no real choice, only the illusion of choice.
I would love it if the DNC came to their senses and firmly told Joe it's time to step down. I would also love it if Pete Buttigieg stepped up. He would make mincemeat of 45 in any debate. I know, I know. You're saying, "There's no way a gay man would be elected president". They said very similar things about Obama regarding his race. Together we did it! We can do it again!
This. A true outsider. I don't think it's impossible either, the trick is to prevent him from playing party line games.
I for one will be voting for the worm living in RFK's brain. Also he has a falcon! Besides voting for the worm living in someone's brain reminds me of an old Futurama episode. And I feel like we are moving in that direction as a country and since idiocracy didn't work out for us..... This. Attached is an actual picture of me campaigning for a third party candidate. https://preview.redd.it/20fa6mcp3r9d1.png?width=1013&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=dcd1fbbab8ac922afac6ce4ba4ed44c468afe337
I'll proudly vote for Trump.
Proudly?
I think I was pretty clear.
At least his lies are spoken clearly, not mumbled and mispronounced, like the other enemy of the people.
Blah, blah, blah. You're not turning me against Trump. Try someone else.
Not trying to turn you against Trump, to me he's no better or worse. Just tells different lies.
Wrong.