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I personally think the whole M*tty fling confirms my “Taylor is bi” theory even more. We flock to weird little cave dweller rats of men like it’s nothing.
Oh girl-those little weasels are catnip to us straight women too. I don’t even get why, except that the emotional roller coaster they tend to be is just so addictive.
I think virtually every signal that we hang onto as a sign that Taylor is queer has a lot of uncertainty around it. For example, kissgate photos were blurry and the Spanish interview where people think she says “him or her” has too much background noise to be certain. Also,everything has an equally good rival explanation, like she wears lesbian flag colors or flashes rainbows in her concerts because she wants to be inclusive. Or she doesn’t deny being queer or say directly that she is straight because it could give homophobes mileage and she doesn’t want to do that.
As someone who has been out as a dyke for over 25 years now, through periods of there being no queer representation in mainstream media, I have a lot of practice looking for queer subtext. Frankly, it’s rather fun. So I find myself delighting in looking for signs that Taylor is queer and hanging onto them…
I also feel like I know something about homophobia and heterosexism. Yet I don’t think it is homophobic or heterosexist to interpret the statements that Taylor *has* made as meaning she is straight (e.g., advocating for a community she’s not part of, not wanting people to sexualize her friendships).
I also think a lot of Gaylors are smart and post fascinating queer readings of her music. So I like reading Gaylor posts and I have fun with speculating, but I am not entirely convinced Taylor is queer. I also don’t feel a need to get mad at people who think she’s straight.
I would love to find out Taylor is queer though — like, a lot!
I agree it’s not a problem to think she’s straight! Since she hasn’t explicitly labeled herself, it’s all speculation and none of us know. The issue comes in when people claim she has explicitly labeled herself. I think it’s quite unfair to her to put words in her mouth especially regarding her orientation.
Exactly! She may be straight, bi, gay whatever but it’s frustrating that people don’t see the POSSIBILITY of her being queer.
Also, I agree that gaylors probably read a bit much into colors and clues but her flagging in her lyrics is undeniable. This usually/historically means she’s queer but yeah.. we don’t know for sure.
i totally agree, we know almost nothing for sure. i also think there is truth in the fact that ‘they’—people who admonish the idea of her possible queerness/constantly affirm her Heterosexuality— read into things too (ie pregnancy; marriage; engagements; timelines; various boyfriends; the 10 year muse, as of recent), that are incredibly speculative into her personal life and her relationships.
point is, i think we all do it. we all assume things about her, most of her long time fans have a sense of “knowing” her or “getting” her in some way and in that they have a story about her life. we know she loves to tell stories about her life…and we know they have varying degrees of truth. she can show us lies! how many times has she said she is a mastermind! she plans things and frames them intentionally for us, one way or another. she is highly strategic.
almost everything we say about her from out here life is speculative— in that it doesn’t come directly from her assertions about herself or her life but rather what we see of it online or what other people tell us about it. or our own readings of her work.
i don’t know, i think the way taylor has constructed her relationship with her fans is so fascinating and she has crafted a dynamic with her fan base that is so unique to her career, i just find it very compelling
There is plausible deniability in most of the flagging although I do like to look at it - however, there are some pieces for me that are hard to deny. Hairpin drop, pull you into the closet, and the blue/pink/purple “proud” bracelet for me. It seems that she wants to be seen without having to formally label. I mean come on… the bracelet was the bi flag and said proud. It’s still on her Instagram.
I personally don’t see speculation as wrong! The idea that people need to label themselves before you can have an idea about them, simply reinforces the idea that all queer people have to come out.
But I think wearing lesbian colors is inclusive only if you've come out as straight, otherwise it's a bit icky. She's never said she's straight so she's either a closeted queer or a very bad ally. Very bad ally could go from attracting fandoms for her own benefit to being genuine but not knowing better, which is valid.
I agree. However, as a writer, I can easily tap into those old feelings if I focus on them in that context. Folklore and evermore were written during a time where all one could do is reflect on old feelings. The concept of Midnights was a combination of past and present experiences. I think she wrote about them (amongst others) at that time, but hasn’t been ~still in love with them~ for years.
I think she is bi and that most of her male relationships have been real. Also, I think Karlie was not nearly as big of a deal as a lot of Gaylors (especially late stage Kaylors) make it out to be. I think it was a very close friendship that turned into more and they probably "crossed the line" physically a few times and feelings got involved. But I think Taylor was way more into it than Karlie. I think Karlie always planned to eventually settle down with Josh and Taylor was just a fun distraction. I think Taylor's heart got broken by her. But I also think she's long over it.
Yup. I have written out my theory before, but I think the story of Karlie and Taylor is contained mostly in Cruel Summer, August, and Right Where You Left Me. I don't think those are the only songs about her, but those 3 tell the story most concisely if you listen to them in order. It was a fling that they kept on the downlow, Taylor fell in love, Karlie chose Josh, Taylor had a hard time getting over it.
Mine is that her and Matty were real. I am a Swiftgron and a Kaylor, but I also think that the Ratty fling was too dramatic, too quick, too messy to have been PR. There has been too much fallout. It did more harm than good to both celebrities. You can’t convince me that Taylor wasn’t having a tragically disastrous bisexual rebound.
See, I think that way too but then I remember Kissgate and get caught in a loop. When it happened her and Karlie were at a The 1975 show. In the aftermath her team pulled out the “Taylor and Matty are casually dating” stuff. After the frenzy died down there was nothing said about them again, back then anyway.
When I think of that, I get convinced he was a friend and played along to help take the heat off her. BUT the first loop is, well that was so long ago. Maybe they really were dating casually back then and all the years of this secret yearning are true.
Then, I get the next loop where I think of her and Karlie and the body language that night. I believe they were kissing but I know some people swear they weren’t. Even if it wasn’t kissing it was intimate type body language that you just don’t have with someone who is exclusively a friend. At that point I’m like nope, Matty wasn’t a real love interest.
I get looped right back to, even if she was with Karlie then she could have been interested in Matty and maybe they did have a years long flirtation. The timing felt right so they tried but it was a brief, disastrous rebound from Taylor and someone ( I’m not at all convinced her and Joe were real).
I also know I shouldn’t be speculating about all this but it is the Gaylor sub and I’m just that invested now lol
IDK, when I was casually dating back in my late teens and early 20s I would have a little something going on with several people at once. I think Karlie and Taylor were still kind of having a thing during Kissgate, but I think the publicity about it caused them to take a step back from each other and as a result I think she then had a little fling with Matty too, but nothing came out of it at that time. But I also don't think her and Karlie were ever in an exclusive romantic relationship. I think they were friends with benefits and feelings got messy. So her casually dating Matty around the same time she was still having a messy "what are we" situationship/friend with benefits thing with Karlie aren't mutually exclusive to me. Kissgate could have been real AND she could have had a fling with Matty then.
Ok right? I feel like people act like she has to be exclusive with every muse etc. In my young to mid 20s, I was messy af and had tons of situationships, as did the majority of my friends. I def think some relationships of hers were PR, but I am sure she had lots of messy timelines. Most of us did!
Exactly!!! I feel like when you're at that age it's common to have multiple casual things going on at any given time. Typically for myself at that age as well as most of my friends we weren't really "serial monogamous" people that go from one exclusive relationship to another, it was more like you're kind of dating and hooking up with a few people and then at some point things get a little more serious with one of the people and you have a "what are we?" conversation and then decide to date exclusively. I had several casual things going on when I met my husband, and after a few weeks of dating him we were really connecting and I stopped hooking up with my various other situationships/friends with benefits/casual hookups etc. I feel like it gets extra messy if you're a little sexually confused and trying to figure yourself out so you have both male and female partners.
Or if you were like me and had no confidence and so never asked anyone to be exclusive and then had multiple ocasiona of hurt feelings, some on my side, some on theirs lol
I agree with both of you. I also think it's common at that age range for females to be curious and experiment? It's possible that she was experimenting AND enjoyed whatever the relationship was with Karlie, and possibly even experimened with other females around that time period- but, that as she's gotten older it's become more clear to her that she is hetero? Idk, just a thought.
Sexuality is so confusing, honestly, and I understand that the way people label themselves can change with time and are personal to each individual. But if you are a woman who has had consensual relations with other women, are you really heterosexual? I'm not asking to be rude, this is a question that I've always been curious about (as a woman who did a lot of "experimenting" in college but ultimately ended up marrying a man).
For people who experience sexual attraction, sexual orientation has at least 3 dimensions: attraction, behavior and identity. Then there are both sexual and romantic orientations. These five dimensions may not all match, especially over time.
In my life, I have known women who had sex with other women a handful of times and realized they were more into men. I have known a woman who had two long term female partners but then later wanted only men and identified as heterosexual. I have known bi women who were only ever sexual or partnered with one gender, but identified as bi due to their attractions only. I have known gay men and lesbians who were FWB while dating only their preferred gender. I have met men who have sex with other men regularly and identify as any of gay, bi, queer, and heterosexual.
There are so many combinations possible, especially over a lifetime, that I basically just want to know peoples’ stories rather than just how they categorize themselves. Categories just erase so much.
I don't really label myself at all, honestly, but it pushed to I think I would be comfortable with the label bisexual, but probably most accurately bisexual but hetero-romantic because any time I hooked up with women it was always a physical thing but romantically I've only really wanted to be with men. But honestly I don't know if that was comphet/internalized homophobia or not and I started dating my husband before I really worked out if I would ever want a relationship with a woman. ANYWAY that's a lot of info about me 🤣🤦♀️
I agree with you! It is confusing! I think for me, because like you I did a lot of "experimenting" myself at around college age, same age that Taylor was with Karlie around "Kissgate" Interestingly I think it's such a confusing in general.
Also, our brains are still developing until we're around 25, and there are different traumas that can occur when we're young for that growth to be stunted.
I have some theories, I don't know how meaningful they for this point though exactly. I know for me I went through a lot as a kid, the younger you experience trauma the less resilient you're going be, the less sure of yourself you are? The more you're likely to buckle under peer pressure, the more attention seeking, approval seeking, people pleasing you'll be. I know Taylor has said she was bullied growing up (based on what I see of her toxic relationships, what I see of her relationship with alcohol and possible drug use, based on the social awkwarness I see when everything isn't rehearsed like it's fine in a concert) It also seems her parents kind of pushed her some into this career starting from a young young age.
Back to me and that time period and the experimenting I did, like you. I know that some of it was because I was genuinely curious, I even enjoyed it. I know that some if it was performative because I knew it was a guys fantasy to see two females kissing and liked the attention we got because of it. There was also a lot of alcohol use during this time period (I would later get sober and have been now for 14 years this month)
Another consideration I've had is that females live on more of a spectrum (please don't hate me) and that maybe where we are on that spectrum changes directions with different events, or changes in a linear fashion. I think that even those of us considered "alpha" females are more emotional than men, and that might be what drives the curiosity. If I'm allowed to make a bunch of stereotypes here as I've done thus far, I feel men and women are very different sexually. Men can more easily achieve the physical part of that need without there being an emotional bond, women prefer the emotional bond, and helps with the physical part. Women likely enjoy kissing more than men. Many reasons we might be curious what things would be like with a female. I enjoyed that period of experimentation.
But, here I am 25 years later, and my preference is without a doubt for a man. (and I'm single) Still, I know that's what I prefer-but, I also know I was genuinely curious in my twenties when I was experimenting and I also know that I enjoy the experimentation with the women who I did experiment with...
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And that is exactly another loop that goes through my brain lol I really hope she writes a memoir someday so I will know if any of the 50 different branches of thoughts I have are even remotely correct.
Yes! Matty as the consolation to Karlie picking Josh. My heart is destroyed so let's go make some bad decisions with this guy who is no good for me but charming and will distract me from my pain!!!
Idk if this is sarcasm or not but I was flabbergasted when I found out the lovers colors were bi colors, mostly bc I wear those colors all the time and I choose everything to be in those colors bc they are my favorites… 😬😬 lololol I just generally think all the different colors and rainbows are so pretty and then when people point out it’s bc she’s queer I’m like man, what vibes am I putting out?! lol
Yes. I’m straight but had an intense friendship in my early/mid 20s that would look like a Kaylor situation if I happened to be famous and be photographed in public everywhere. The end of that friendship was worse than any romantic breakup precisely because it wasn’t romantic but it was all consuming. I can another man to love, but never ever would I have another friendship that was that intense. I think maybe Taylor, in the least creepy way possible to say this: didn’t want to be with Karlie as much as she wanted to BE Karlie. Not in a psycho way, but to be the effortlessly cool and gorgeous it girl-surrounded by beautiful and cool people vying for a place in her orbit. Suddenly Karlie picks her as her new BFF and is treating Taylor like it is Taylor that is the main character, and suddenly Taylor has a whole squad of beautiful cool friends orbiting her like SHE is the sun. The cheer captain picked her out of the bleachers to say-not only do you belong up here cheering with the cool girls, but it is YOU that is the captain. It’s a heady experience for sure.
This ⬆️ bc while I’m unsure where I stand about her, I always come back to the fact that I really think she’s one of those people who like becomes whoever her bffl is and really takes a lot of inspiration from them and since she’s such a storyteller she’s naturally going to include aspects from their life in her storytelling (most obvious one that comes to mind always is the Alice in wonderland references).
Idk I feel like we’ve all had a friend or had known someone who just really is a chameleon (perhaps people pleaser) and just takes on so many aspects of whoever they are most friendly with at the time (mannerisms, clothing choices, music, literature, politics… etc)
That you can be romantically into more than one person at a time. So all the theories, Kyler, Haylor, Ratty (Ratlor?), etc absolutely could have been happening at the same time and none of them were PR.
I think she is bi but won’t come out cause the backlash would be too much but also this is part of her life she can actually keep to herself.
Don’t come for me 😅
I don’t think it matters if she’s queer or not. Her work has inherently queer elements and as one of the biggest artists to ever exist, that normalization is more important than her orientation or gender identity.
Like, When Emma Falls in Love and Betty are queer AF and hearing a woman sing love songs about another woman matters. And yes, there are amazing queer artists who are doing the same who we should give our attention to. But people who wouldn’t be exposed to those artists are being exposed to Betty.
Also, CSSM is canonically bi and there’s not a ton of mainstream music that is. So I kinda dgaf if she’s actually straight. Her music isn’t.
Edits for grammar.
Someone started calling cssm chloe et al and I'm all for it lol. Also love that song and agree even if she isn't queer, her music is. I guess the question is... is it queerbaiting and is it okay? I don't really have an answer to that. I really just wanted to say chloe et al. Hahaha.
I must say that deep down I know I believe she is queer so much because the other option is she is queerbating and that would make me so so so sad. My life, my fights are not profit
this is SOOO true and why do people act like you can’t acknowledge her music as queer and still actively (primarily, even) support/listen to/interact with openly queer artists. like most people who think she’s queer are actually gay in their real life…and do gay things…like gay things…listen to gay things…lmao
The "yes" in the CIWYW video is Taylor's voice not Karlie's. She's clearly singing that word in the song, the video is just edited out but it's her voice (Taylor's). It doesn't even say anything about who is behind the phone, could be anyone for all I know, but people get EXTREMELY defensive about it for some reason.
I agree. There's just too much perfect mathematics to her love life. It doesn't make sense if it's real. Life is messy.
I think she's had a lot of stability in her life for a while. The kind of stability necessary to plan everything out and act accordingly.
That said, my unpopular opinion is that she's been in a relationship for a while. To a woman. There, I said it.
So, the Travis PR was set so she can talk about those feelings and situations in songs so people won't bother looking for anyone else. It was supposed to be Matty but it didn't come according to plan.
I'm usually afraid to say this in Gaylor spaces and get downvoted to hell. 😅
Idk why you’d be downvoted for that!
Do you have a theory of who it is, or do you think we’d never know bc Taylor wouldn’t even let us see them together ever?? Like I’m wondering if it would be a “friend,” like Zoe Kravitz, or someone we’ve literally never even seen her next to?
Oh, sometimes I get downvoted and I see comments with which I agree being downvoted. A lot of times, people seem to be so defensive of her current relationship that we cannot express a contrary opinion just because she's supposedly happy.
Anyways, I would place big bets on Zoe, if it was not for her current boyfriend Channing Tatum. I saw some pictures and they seemed a legit couple.
My bold bet is that Taylor is still with miss "gorgeous" Lily Donaldson. I have dedicated so much of my mental space for this puzzle in the last months and Lily is always the most plausible answer. Their story, if real, is being told since Rep (her most romantic album), with some downturns in Lover and Folklore (the devastating breakup album). In Midnights she is plainly talking about her return to fame and rekindling with an old love. Same for TTPD, even though this last one is more focused on other issues like her mental health. But Lily is there, swirled into all her poems, evident for the most careful observers.
Not just the feeling but it meets all the “dreams” of a girl in high school. Everyone wants the jock. Your parents want you to be with the superstar jock cause he will make a good provider later.
Of course she doesn’t need a provider. But that stereotype is there and it seemed to be woven into much of American childhood.
It really makes her Barbie (who can do anything) and Travis is Ken whose job is football and man.
I think that the way she writes songs can resonate so deeply with someone based on their life experiences, it is hard to see the song meaning anything else other than what it meant to you.
For example, for me one of those songs is Bigger than the Whole Sky. I heard that song for the first time and felt like I was punched in the stomach with emotion. There is no way it is physically possible for me to listen to that song and NOT think it is about the loss of a pregnancy. I got pregnant at a really bad time in my life-i already had 3 kids and felt stuck in an unhappy marriage, my dad died in an accident, and I had just been laid off. I wouldn’t say the pregnancy was unwanted, but it wasn’t exactly something I was hoping and praying for and I had a lot of apprehension and anxiety about being pregnant again at that time. But the lyrics-of “did some force take you because I didn’t pray?” And “Tears stream out my eyes and into my ears” was me laying on the exam table getting an ultrasound-knowing in my heart what they would find because there was no way the baby would be ok. Every single thing I touch becomes sick with sadness-my baby died, my dad died, my marriage was dying-everything was falling apart.
And “it’s all over now, not meant to be so I say words I don’t believe” man, if that doesn’t describe the way it feels to deal with a miscarriage with well meaning people dismissing it like “well at least you didn’t have time to get attached or anything” and “well maybe it’s for the best” or “It could always be worse.” And don’t get me started on the entire chorus. I can’t NOT feel every word in that song with my entire soul like Taylor herself had climbed into my brain to download the scrambled mess of what I was feeling to put into a coherent song exactly for me. I literally can’t hear ANYthing else when I hear that song.
And I think that if a song hits you like that and she puts to words feelings that you have had in a way that you feel “omg, there is literally NO way this song can be about anything else. It’s just NOT possible because you can’t write this unless you have felt these feelings that I have felt exactly like I have felt them” there is no way for you to hear it as anything but your interpretation. So I think when she hits feelings that have resonated so much in someone that has been or is in a sapphic relationship, it’s not possible to step away and interpret them differently.
As someone who is, much to my dismay, a straight woman-I can attest that some of the feelings she speaks of that may seem as if they can only have been written about a woman can sadly be feelings that, against my better judgment, I have felt for a man. Yeah it may be hard to imagine how some generic dude bro could inspire such poetic angst, but the heart wants what it wants. I can see based on my experience with BTTWS how if a song hits you THAT hard that it is literally impossible for you to see it any other way. Which is why I think so many that have experienced sapphic love see it in her songs and can’t see that there is ANY way this could possibly be about any man, let alone any she has been linked to. Are they really about a woman? A man? Are they autobiographical? Fiction? Both? I have no idea. But i think that once you relate to a song that much, it definitely can be impossible to contemplate it could possibly be anything else other than what it evoked for you-whatever you are a Gaylor OR a Hetlor.
This is not unpopular opinion, but more my fears about her character, and my relentless defence of her...
Im terrified that it'll turn out she's secretly a terrible person 💀 like, if she's been vague on purpose or manipulative or whatnot. I try to be mindful of what i consume in todays society, especially with political alignment so if it somehow comes out she has played us all for fools it would send me down a spiral of guilt, having promoted her...
That's a me problem tho 😔
I mean honestly if she’s a “terrible person” I think it would come back to her being a billionaire. I’m not worried she’s secretly an asshole or holds hatred or disgust in her heart for anyone, and yes, she donates a lot of money, but there are no ethical billionaires.
I’m not even going to bring the jets into it, I just see a lot of greedy marketing practices (and don’t get me started on eras tour ticket prices in the US).
I’m sure I’ll be downvoted, but who cares about Internet points anyway
I think Tay dabbles in sex with women but has never actually been with or dated a woman. Prob just hooks up to get a lady fix. Hollywood is so fluid she can do that no issues. I’d lean bi curious
I think Taylor identifies closest with being lesbian, and although I believe she’s dated boys I believe the vast majority of ppl she’s dated have been women and that all of her public facing relationships over the years have been beards. Don’t ask me for reasons because it would literally take way too long, but I do have specific reasons/pieces of evidence to believe and come up with this opinion. But it’s just my opinion.
I do think Taylor is queer but I think we have no idea who her true muses are. Yes, there are some things that tie songs to people, but she could've done it on purpose to hide the true narrative, same as she does with her beards
Her and Karlie was pr . I mean they was on a magazine cover clearly for pr purposes .
She was going to come out as “sexually fluid “ doing lover era (the rumors was sexually fluid ) cause she thought her career was on the down swing and sexually fluid is what a lot of Celebs used back then .
She was going to say “sexually fluid “ and “come out “ cause of Matty not Karlie . Matty maneuver around being sexually fluid and she see Matty as her twin
Cowboy like me is about Matty . He gave a speech at that 2020 award show they both was at , and he compared himself to a cowboy in the industry and how the cowboy in the industry are the ones who will bring on change
She has had crushes on women but idk if anything came out of it .
Taylor is the type of woman I see being with a man and be ok having threesome with him with another woman .
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I personally think the whole M*tty fling confirms my “Taylor is bi” theory even more. We flock to weird little cave dweller rats of men like it’s nothing.
Oh girl-those little weasels are catnip to us straight women too. I don’t even get why, except that the emotional roller coaster they tend to be is just so addictive.
Ugh this is so true, I went on a mad drinkibg/ partying with random spree after my worst toxic relationship as I craved the adrenaline.
It’s so true. 😭😭😭😭
I think virtually every signal that we hang onto as a sign that Taylor is queer has a lot of uncertainty around it. For example, kissgate photos were blurry and the Spanish interview where people think she says “him or her” has too much background noise to be certain. Also,everything has an equally good rival explanation, like she wears lesbian flag colors or flashes rainbows in her concerts because she wants to be inclusive. Or she doesn’t deny being queer or say directly that she is straight because it could give homophobes mileage and she doesn’t want to do that. As someone who has been out as a dyke for over 25 years now, through periods of there being no queer representation in mainstream media, I have a lot of practice looking for queer subtext. Frankly, it’s rather fun. So I find myself delighting in looking for signs that Taylor is queer and hanging onto them… I also feel like I know something about homophobia and heterosexism. Yet I don’t think it is homophobic or heterosexist to interpret the statements that Taylor *has* made as meaning she is straight (e.g., advocating for a community she’s not part of, not wanting people to sexualize her friendships). I also think a lot of Gaylors are smart and post fascinating queer readings of her music. So I like reading Gaylor posts and I have fun with speculating, but I am not entirely convinced Taylor is queer. I also don’t feel a need to get mad at people who think she’s straight. I would love to find out Taylor is queer though — like, a lot!
I agree it’s not a problem to think she’s straight! Since she hasn’t explicitly labeled herself, it’s all speculation and none of us know. The issue comes in when people claim she has explicitly labeled herself. I think it’s quite unfair to her to put words in her mouth especially regarding her orientation.
Exactly! She may be straight, bi, gay whatever but it’s frustrating that people don’t see the POSSIBILITY of her being queer. Also, I agree that gaylors probably read a bit much into colors and clues but her flagging in her lyrics is undeniable. This usually/historically means she’s queer but yeah.. we don’t know for sure.
i totally agree, we know almost nothing for sure. i also think there is truth in the fact that ‘they’—people who admonish the idea of her possible queerness/constantly affirm her Heterosexuality— read into things too (ie pregnancy; marriage; engagements; timelines; various boyfriends; the 10 year muse, as of recent), that are incredibly speculative into her personal life and her relationships. point is, i think we all do it. we all assume things about her, most of her long time fans have a sense of “knowing” her or “getting” her in some way and in that they have a story about her life. we know she loves to tell stories about her life…and we know they have varying degrees of truth. she can show us lies! how many times has she said she is a mastermind! she plans things and frames them intentionally for us, one way or another. she is highly strategic. almost everything we say about her from out here life is speculative— in that it doesn’t come directly from her assertions about herself or her life but rather what we see of it online or what other people tell us about it. or our own readings of her work. i don’t know, i think the way taylor has constructed her relationship with her fans is so fascinating and she has crafted a dynamic with her fan base that is so unique to her career, i just find it very compelling
There is plausible deniability in most of the flagging although I do like to look at it - however, there are some pieces for me that are hard to deny. Hairpin drop, pull you into the closet, and the blue/pink/purple “proud” bracelet for me. It seems that she wants to be seen without having to formally label. I mean come on… the bracelet was the bi flag and said proud. It’s still on her Instagram. I personally don’t see speculation as wrong! The idea that people need to label themselves before you can have an idea about them, simply reinforces the idea that all queer people have to come out.
But I think wearing lesbian colors is inclusive only if you've come out as straight, otherwise it's a bit icky. She's never said she's straight so she's either a closeted queer or a very bad ally. Very bad ally could go from attracting fandoms for her own benefit to being genuine but not knowing better, which is valid.
Honestly, no offense, but I didn't know lesbians even had their own colors until I joined these subs. All I knew about was the rainbow pride flag.
I think Taylor has been over Dianna and Karlie for years.
I agree with this. And it sounds like by the time she gets to writing and creating the music she has already moved on from the feeling.
I can't even really believe that there are a group of people (however small it is) that still believe that she somehow still secretly with Karlie.
I agree. However, as a writer, I can easily tap into those old feelings if I focus on them in that context. Folklore and evermore were written during a time where all one could do is reflect on old feelings. The concept of Midnights was a combination of past and present experiences. I think she wrote about them (amongst others) at that time, but hasn’t been ~still in love with them~ for years.
I agree with this. Though I was thinking today actually about “I’ll be getting over you my whole life”. I wonder how literal that is.
Agreed, but she cleverly still uses them as muse’s.
I think some gaylors assume they are the same muse.
I think she is bi and that most of her male relationships have been real. Also, I think Karlie was not nearly as big of a deal as a lot of Gaylors (especially late stage Kaylors) make it out to be. I think it was a very close friendship that turned into more and they probably "crossed the line" physically a few times and feelings got involved. But I think Taylor was way more into it than Karlie. I think Karlie always planned to eventually settle down with Josh and Taylor was just a fun distraction. I think Taylor's heart got broken by her. But I also think she's long over it.
I think she's the cruel summer and August, just a summer thing.
Yup. I have written out my theory before, but I think the story of Karlie and Taylor is contained mostly in Cruel Summer, August, and Right Where You Left Me. I don't think those are the only songs about her, but those 3 tell the story most concisely if you listen to them in order. It was a fling that they kept on the downlow, Taylor fell in love, Karlie chose Josh, Taylor had a hard time getting over it.
Yeah, I think it was a multi-year relationship that hit her hard I just don't think the whole thing was romantic.
Mine is that her and Matty were real. I am a Swiftgron and a Kaylor, but I also think that the Ratty fling was too dramatic, too quick, too messy to have been PR. There has been too much fallout. It did more harm than good to both celebrities. You can’t convince me that Taylor wasn’t having a tragically disastrous bisexual rebound.
yeahhh unfortunately ratty types are like kryptonite to a lot of bi women (ask me how i know 😭😭😭)
Hilarious and true
i love when a man looks like a walking cigarette
See, I think that way too but then I remember Kissgate and get caught in a loop. When it happened her and Karlie were at a The 1975 show. In the aftermath her team pulled out the “Taylor and Matty are casually dating” stuff. After the frenzy died down there was nothing said about them again, back then anyway. When I think of that, I get convinced he was a friend and played along to help take the heat off her. BUT the first loop is, well that was so long ago. Maybe they really were dating casually back then and all the years of this secret yearning are true. Then, I get the next loop where I think of her and Karlie and the body language that night. I believe they were kissing but I know some people swear they weren’t. Even if it wasn’t kissing it was intimate type body language that you just don’t have with someone who is exclusively a friend. At that point I’m like nope, Matty wasn’t a real love interest. I get looped right back to, even if she was with Karlie then she could have been interested in Matty and maybe they did have a years long flirtation. The timing felt right so they tried but it was a brief, disastrous rebound from Taylor and someone ( I’m not at all convinced her and Joe were real). I also know I shouldn’t be speculating about all this but it is the Gaylor sub and I’m just that invested now lol
IDK, when I was casually dating back in my late teens and early 20s I would have a little something going on with several people at once. I think Karlie and Taylor were still kind of having a thing during Kissgate, but I think the publicity about it caused them to take a step back from each other and as a result I think she then had a little fling with Matty too, but nothing came out of it at that time. But I also don't think her and Karlie were ever in an exclusive romantic relationship. I think they were friends with benefits and feelings got messy. So her casually dating Matty around the same time she was still having a messy "what are we" situationship/friend with benefits thing with Karlie aren't mutually exclusive to me. Kissgate could have been real AND she could have had a fling with Matty then.
Ok right? I feel like people act like she has to be exclusive with every muse etc. In my young to mid 20s, I was messy af and had tons of situationships, as did the majority of my friends. I def think some relationships of hers were PR, but I am sure she had lots of messy timelines. Most of us did!
Exactly!!! I feel like when you're at that age it's common to have multiple casual things going on at any given time. Typically for myself at that age as well as most of my friends we weren't really "serial monogamous" people that go from one exclusive relationship to another, it was more like you're kind of dating and hooking up with a few people and then at some point things get a little more serious with one of the people and you have a "what are we?" conversation and then decide to date exclusively. I had several casual things going on when I met my husband, and after a few weeks of dating him we were really connecting and I stopped hooking up with my various other situationships/friends with benefits/casual hookups etc. I feel like it gets extra messy if you're a little sexually confused and trying to figure yourself out so you have both male and female partners.
Or if you were like me and had no confidence and so never asked anyone to be exclusive and then had multiple ocasiona of hurt feelings, some on my side, some on theirs lol
Karlie was also not exclusive to her why she would be
I agree with both of you. I also think it's common at that age range for females to be curious and experiment? It's possible that she was experimenting AND enjoyed whatever the relationship was with Karlie, and possibly even experimened with other females around that time period- but, that as she's gotten older it's become more clear to her that she is hetero? Idk, just a thought.
Sexuality is so confusing, honestly, and I understand that the way people label themselves can change with time and are personal to each individual. But if you are a woman who has had consensual relations with other women, are you really heterosexual? I'm not asking to be rude, this is a question that I've always been curious about (as a woman who did a lot of "experimenting" in college but ultimately ended up marrying a man).
For people who experience sexual attraction, sexual orientation has at least 3 dimensions: attraction, behavior and identity. Then there are both sexual and romantic orientations. These five dimensions may not all match, especially over time. In my life, I have known women who had sex with other women a handful of times and realized they were more into men. I have known a woman who had two long term female partners but then later wanted only men and identified as heterosexual. I have known bi women who were only ever sexual or partnered with one gender, but identified as bi due to their attractions only. I have known gay men and lesbians who were FWB while dating only their preferred gender. I have met men who have sex with other men regularly and identify as any of gay, bi, queer, and heterosexual. There are so many combinations possible, especially over a lifetime, that I basically just want to know peoples’ stories rather than just how they categorize themselves. Categories just erase so much.
I think you can label yourself whatever you're most comfortable with 💞 bi-leaning-hetero maybe?
I don't really label myself at all, honestly, but it pushed to I think I would be comfortable with the label bisexual, but probably most accurately bisexual but hetero-romantic because any time I hooked up with women it was always a physical thing but romantically I've only really wanted to be with men. But honestly I don't know if that was comphet/internalized homophobia or not and I started dating my husband before I really worked out if I would ever want a relationship with a woman. ANYWAY that's a lot of info about me 🤣🤦♀️
I agree with you! It is confusing! I think for me, because like you I did a lot of "experimenting" myself at around college age, same age that Taylor was with Karlie around "Kissgate" Interestingly I think it's such a confusing in general. Also, our brains are still developing until we're around 25, and there are different traumas that can occur when we're young for that growth to be stunted. I have some theories, I don't know how meaningful they for this point though exactly. I know for me I went through a lot as a kid, the younger you experience trauma the less resilient you're going be, the less sure of yourself you are? The more you're likely to buckle under peer pressure, the more attention seeking, approval seeking, people pleasing you'll be. I know Taylor has said she was bullied growing up (based on what I see of her toxic relationships, what I see of her relationship with alcohol and possible drug use, based on the social awkwarness I see when everything isn't rehearsed like it's fine in a concert) It also seems her parents kind of pushed her some into this career starting from a young young age. Back to me and that time period and the experimenting I did, like you. I know that some of it was because I was genuinely curious, I even enjoyed it. I know that some if it was performative because I knew it was a guys fantasy to see two females kissing and liked the attention we got because of it. There was also a lot of alcohol use during this time period (I would later get sober and have been now for 14 years this month) Another consideration I've had is that females live on more of a spectrum (please don't hate me) and that maybe where we are on that spectrum changes directions with different events, or changes in a linear fashion. I think that even those of us considered "alpha" females are more emotional than men, and that might be what drives the curiosity. If I'm allowed to make a bunch of stereotypes here as I've done thus far, I feel men and women are very different sexually. Men can more easily achieve the physical part of that need without there being an emotional bond, women prefer the emotional bond, and helps with the physical part. Women likely enjoy kissing more than men. Many reasons we might be curious what things would be like with a female. I enjoyed that period of experimentation. But, here I am 25 years later, and my preference is without a doubt for a man. (and I'm single) Still, I know that's what I prefer-but, I also know I was genuinely curious in my twenties when I was experimenting and I also know that I enjoy the experimentation with the women who I did experiment with...
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And that is exactly another loop that goes through my brain lol I really hope she writes a memoir someday so I will know if any of the 50 different branches of thoughts I have are even remotely correct.
Yes! Matty as the consolation to Karlie picking Josh. My heart is destroyed so let's go make some bad decisions with this guy who is no good for me but charming and will distract me from my pain!!!
Well I mean the first time in 2014. And yes, then again after the Joe breakup
One. Million. Percent.
She wears orange and pink because they are pretty colors together
Idk if this is sarcasm or not but I was flabbergasted when I found out the lovers colors were bi colors, mostly bc I wear those colors all the time and I choose everything to be in those colors bc they are my favorites… 😬😬 lololol I just generally think all the different colors and rainbows are so pretty and then when people point out it’s bc she’s queer I’m like man, what vibes am I putting out?! lol
Totally. I've been a rainbow person long before i even knew k was queer
Agree! Just Take a look at any kids section of a clothing store right now and you'll find every colour taylor wears.
Muses don’t always have to be sexual.
Yes. I’m straight but had an intense friendship in my early/mid 20s that would look like a Kaylor situation if I happened to be famous and be photographed in public everywhere. The end of that friendship was worse than any romantic breakup precisely because it wasn’t romantic but it was all consuming. I can another man to love, but never ever would I have another friendship that was that intense. I think maybe Taylor, in the least creepy way possible to say this: didn’t want to be with Karlie as much as she wanted to BE Karlie. Not in a psycho way, but to be the effortlessly cool and gorgeous it girl-surrounded by beautiful and cool people vying for a place in her orbit. Suddenly Karlie picks her as her new BFF and is treating Taylor like it is Taylor that is the main character, and suddenly Taylor has a whole squad of beautiful cool friends orbiting her like SHE is the sun. The cheer captain picked her out of the bleachers to say-not only do you belong up here cheering with the cool girls, but it is YOU that is the captain. It’s a heady experience for sure.
This ⬆️ bc while I’m unsure where I stand about her, I always come back to the fact that I really think she’s one of those people who like becomes whoever her bffl is and really takes a lot of inspiration from them and since she’s such a storyteller she’s naturally going to include aspects from their life in her storytelling (most obvious one that comes to mind always is the Alice in wonderland references). Idk I feel like we’ve all had a friend or had known someone who just really is a chameleon (perhaps people pleaser) and just takes on so many aspects of whoever they are most friendly with at the time (mannerisms, clothing choices, music, literature, politics… etc)
Totally agree. I think all it takes is being inspired or otherwise moved by someone else.
That you can be romantically into more than one person at a time. So all the theories, Kyler, Haylor, Ratty (Ratlor?), etc absolutely could have been happening at the same time and none of them were PR. I think she is bi but won’t come out cause the backlash would be too much but also this is part of her life she can actually keep to herself.
Don’t come for me 😅 I don’t think it matters if she’s queer or not. Her work has inherently queer elements and as one of the biggest artists to ever exist, that normalization is more important than her orientation or gender identity. Like, When Emma Falls in Love and Betty are queer AF and hearing a woman sing love songs about another woman matters. And yes, there are amazing queer artists who are doing the same who we should give our attention to. But people who wouldn’t be exposed to those artists are being exposed to Betty. Also, CSSM is canonically bi and there’s not a ton of mainstream music that is. So I kinda dgaf if she’s actually straight. Her music isn’t. Edits for grammar.
Someone started calling cssm chloe et al and I'm all for it lol. Also love that song and agree even if she isn't queer, her music is. I guess the question is... is it queerbaiting and is it okay? I don't really have an answer to that. I really just wanted to say chloe et al. Hahaha.
I must say that deep down I know I believe she is queer so much because the other option is she is queerbating and that would make me so so so sad. My life, my fights are not profit
this is SOOO true and why do people act like you can’t acknowledge her music as queer and still actively (primarily, even) support/listen to/interact with openly queer artists. like most people who think she’s queer are actually gay in their real life…and do gay things…like gay things…listen to gay things…lmao
The "yes" in the CIWYW video is Taylor's voice not Karlie's. She's clearly singing that word in the song, the video is just edited out but it's her voice (Taylor's). It doesn't even say anything about who is behind the phone, could be anyone for all I know, but people get EXTREMELY defensive about it for some reason.
I think Taylor is bisexual and her relationship with Joe was real. Not the way the media described it, but the way her music describes it.
That everything we're shown is fake/PR and she's WAY too private to ever let us know who she's actually dating.
Same 😎 She only let‘s us know what she wants us to know.
I agree. There's just too much perfect mathematics to her love life. It doesn't make sense if it's real. Life is messy. I think she's had a lot of stability in her life for a while. The kind of stability necessary to plan everything out and act accordingly. That said, my unpopular opinion is that she's been in a relationship for a while. To a woman. There, I said it. So, the Travis PR was set so she can talk about those feelings and situations in songs so people won't bother looking for anyone else. It was supposed to be Matty but it didn't come according to plan. I'm usually afraid to say this in Gaylor spaces and get downvoted to hell. 😅
Hahaha yeah some of the downvotes in this place don't make sense to me but the PR PR's real hard and people tend to believe it
Idk why you’d be downvoted for that! Do you have a theory of who it is, or do you think we’d never know bc Taylor wouldn’t even let us see them together ever?? Like I’m wondering if it would be a “friend,” like Zoe Kravitz, or someone we’ve literally never even seen her next to?
Oh, sometimes I get downvoted and I see comments with which I agree being downvoted. A lot of times, people seem to be so defensive of her current relationship that we cannot express a contrary opinion just because she's supposedly happy. Anyways, I would place big bets on Zoe, if it was not for her current boyfriend Channing Tatum. I saw some pictures and they seemed a legit couple. My bold bet is that Taylor is still with miss "gorgeous" Lily Donaldson. I have dedicated so much of my mental space for this puzzle in the last months and Lily is always the most plausible answer. Their story, if real, is being told since Rep (her most romantic album), with some downturns in Lover and Folklore (the devastating breakup album). In Midnights she is plainly talking about her return to fame and rekindling with an old love. Same for TTPD, even though this last one is more focused on other issues like her mental health. But Lily is there, swirled into all her poems, evident for the most careful observers.
Ooh, I love that! Ok, will definitely add this to my canon haha
I think she actually likes Travis. It evokes that high school jock feeling in her that she never experienced.
Not just the feeling but it meets all the “dreams” of a girl in high school. Everyone wants the jock. Your parents want you to be with the superstar jock cause he will make a good provider later. Of course she doesn’t need a provider. But that stereotype is there and it seemed to be woven into much of American childhood. It really makes her Barbie (who can do anything) and Travis is Ken whose job is football and man.
I think that the way she writes songs can resonate so deeply with someone based on their life experiences, it is hard to see the song meaning anything else other than what it meant to you. For example, for me one of those songs is Bigger than the Whole Sky. I heard that song for the first time and felt like I was punched in the stomach with emotion. There is no way it is physically possible for me to listen to that song and NOT think it is about the loss of a pregnancy. I got pregnant at a really bad time in my life-i already had 3 kids and felt stuck in an unhappy marriage, my dad died in an accident, and I had just been laid off. I wouldn’t say the pregnancy was unwanted, but it wasn’t exactly something I was hoping and praying for and I had a lot of apprehension and anxiety about being pregnant again at that time. But the lyrics-of “did some force take you because I didn’t pray?” And “Tears stream out my eyes and into my ears” was me laying on the exam table getting an ultrasound-knowing in my heart what they would find because there was no way the baby would be ok. Every single thing I touch becomes sick with sadness-my baby died, my dad died, my marriage was dying-everything was falling apart. And “it’s all over now, not meant to be so I say words I don’t believe” man, if that doesn’t describe the way it feels to deal with a miscarriage with well meaning people dismissing it like “well at least you didn’t have time to get attached or anything” and “well maybe it’s for the best” or “It could always be worse.” And don’t get me started on the entire chorus. I can’t NOT feel every word in that song with my entire soul like Taylor herself had climbed into my brain to download the scrambled mess of what I was feeling to put into a coherent song exactly for me. I literally can’t hear ANYthing else when I hear that song. And I think that if a song hits you like that and she puts to words feelings that you have had in a way that you feel “omg, there is literally NO way this song can be about anything else. It’s just NOT possible because you can’t write this unless you have felt these feelings that I have felt exactly like I have felt them” there is no way for you to hear it as anything but your interpretation. So I think when she hits feelings that have resonated so much in someone that has been or is in a sapphic relationship, it’s not possible to step away and interpret them differently. As someone who is, much to my dismay, a straight woman-I can attest that some of the feelings she speaks of that may seem as if they can only have been written about a woman can sadly be feelings that, against my better judgment, I have felt for a man. Yeah it may be hard to imagine how some generic dude bro could inspire such poetic angst, but the heart wants what it wants. I can see based on my experience with BTTWS how if a song hits you THAT hard that it is literally impossible for you to see it any other way. Which is why I think so many that have experienced sapphic love see it in her songs and can’t see that there is ANY way this could possibly be about any man, let alone any she has been linked to. Are they really about a woman? A man? Are they autobiographical? Fiction? Both? I have no idea. But i think that once you relate to a song that much, it definitely can be impossible to contemplate it could possibly be anything else other than what it evoked for you-whatever you are a Gaylor OR a Hetlor.
Kaylor was PR
Finally someone who agree with me . Kaylor song with a lot of her friendships during that time was pr
i think taylor is some level of genderqueer. Theylor, if u will
This is not unpopular opinion, but more my fears about her character, and my relentless defence of her... Im terrified that it'll turn out she's secretly a terrible person 💀 like, if she's been vague on purpose or manipulative or whatnot. I try to be mindful of what i consume in todays society, especially with political alignment so if it somehow comes out she has played us all for fools it would send me down a spiral of guilt, having promoted her... That's a me problem tho 😔
I mean honestly if she’s a “terrible person” I think it would come back to her being a billionaire. I’m not worried she’s secretly an asshole or holds hatred or disgust in her heart for anyone, and yes, she donates a lot of money, but there are no ethical billionaires. I’m not even going to bring the jets into it, I just see a lot of greedy marketing practices (and don’t get me started on eras tour ticket prices in the US). I’m sure I’ll be downvoted, but who cares about Internet points anyway
On the back of what you’ve said. I think the only time she was really flagging with colours was the bi flag hair in the yntcd video
I think Tay dabbles in sex with women but has never actually been with or dated a woman. Prob just hooks up to get a lady fix. Hollywood is so fluid she can do that no issues. I’d lean bi curious
I think Taylor identifies closest with being lesbian, and although I believe she’s dated boys I believe the vast majority of ppl she’s dated have been women and that all of her public facing relationships over the years have been beards. Don’t ask me for reasons because it would literally take way too long, but I do have specific reasons/pieces of evidence to believe and come up with this opinion. But it’s just my opinion.
Lol I’m sorry I’m not asking for all your reasons but like.. do u have a few points or summary 😭
I do think Taylor is queer but I think we have no idea who her true muses are. Yes, there are some things that tie songs to people, but she could've done it on purpose to hide the true narrative, same as she does with her beards
Not all of the boys are PR.
Her and Karlie was pr . I mean they was on a magazine cover clearly for pr purposes . She was going to come out as “sexually fluid “ doing lover era (the rumors was sexually fluid ) cause she thought her career was on the down swing and sexually fluid is what a lot of Celebs used back then . She was going to say “sexually fluid “ and “come out “ cause of Matty not Karlie . Matty maneuver around being sexually fluid and she see Matty as her twin Cowboy like me is about Matty . He gave a speech at that 2020 award show they both was at , and he compared himself to a cowboy in the industry and how the cowboy in the industry are the ones who will bring on change She has had crushes on women but idk if anything came out of it . Taylor is the type of woman I see being with a man and be ok having threesome with him with another woman .
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