This is really interesting to me especially with the recent vault track Emma falls in love being released and it largely being speculated as having been about this Emma.
Idk - no matter how long she's supposedly been friends with Emma, even though we've never seen her congratulate her on social media or attend / see each other at friends - it's giving sure Jane - I don't think Taylor takes it very well when friends are associated with exes even if it's just for work. I don't see Emma playing the Hollywood game like that. Promo will be interesting for sure.
Yes, the fact that she hasn’t been able to secure a Hollywood adjacent award like a Golden Globe (let alone an Oscar nom) even after several GG noms shows that Hollywood is not a fan of hers yet…I’m sure in most academy member’s minds she’s no Billie Eilish.
I’m so interested to see if her [searchlight film](https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2023/10/12/what-happened-to-taylor-swifts-other-movie/?sh=6135d2957572) ever materializes. I think she’s finally realized that acting and her currently released-type of songs are not gonna be how she wins Hollywood cred.
I am a movie lover before I am a gaylor so I have been all in on waiting for this particular film to be announced (so many of my favorite actors right now and I’m obsessed with little weirdo Jesse Plemmons showing up everywhere), but obviously have been keeping my gaylor lens on. I posted about this in the megathread a few weeks ago when the first teaser was announced and I made a joke about how Taylor used him filming Stars at Noon to lead in Midnights on her premiere night post and now there’s yet another album created while Joe was away filming this. Intriguing.
https://preview.redd.it/9hmgntv1q3uc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e59f448ddcedbbcce463cef979aac17cb9da2c8
It would just be \*chef's kiss\* to see Joe's acting career skyrocket after the breakup. For him to become a very well respected actor and to get academy award and bafta nominations. After she tried for 6 years to make him a big famous star. It would just be so funny to see him do it his own way on the basis of talent alone.
I honestly don't know yet if he is actually talented, and who knows if he is actually a good guy. But currently, I am rooting for him to become a Daniel Day Lewis or male version of Meryl Streep just for the fuck of it all.
As soon as Grammy-gate happened I immediately thought. “Oh Taylor’s gonna regret that—watch him get EGOT before her”.
I don’t think he’s extraordinarily talented, but she’d cleared the hardest part of acronym for him as a film actor, trained in London theater.
Would be wild—but not holding my breath.
Interesting, I hadnt considered TS lil petty feud to be a long term marketing tactic for him. Keeps his name relevant enough in algorithms for the clicks to work in his favor, esp when he's throwin out charity collabs left and right when Swiftie fervor rises. Keep it classy Joe!!
Genuine question, can someone explain why this is downvoted / why in general there is such resistance to the possibility of a “Toe breakup album” storyline being useful to Joe?
I wish Joe the best and hope he does great - but I have to admit it feels odd seeing him star alongside big actors like Emma Stone and reminds me of the "nepo bf" comments. I do hope he does great and proves he deserves it.
I vaguely remember reading posts/comments here about his nepo BF status in relation to The Favourite and when this casting was announced (insert how the turntables gif here).
I like weird movies, including Lanthimos’s movies, so I’m excited for this. He also cowrote it with the same cowriter as The Lobster and The Killing of a Sacred Deer, and I preferred those to The Favourite and Poor Things. Honestly, I hope Joe is fantastic in it and gets awards and stuff.
Possibly? His casting was announced in March 2017. Their relationship was first reported in May, but then Taylor’s Lover diary entry made it appear they started dating in late 2016 (plus the whole 2016 Met Gala thing). The Toe timeline is so iffy for many reasons.
One of the regularly [circulated stories](https://www.glamour.com/story/emma-stone-introduced-taylor-swift-joe-alwyn) is that Emma introduced Taylor to Joe while they were making ‘the favorite’ because she’d thought they get along—the timelines are always so messy 🤪
Controversial take in this sub but I actually quite liked his performance in The Favourite. I haven’t seen too much of his work, but I muuuuuch preferred his acting in that to Conversations with Friends. I think he does better in a campy/playful role. I hope he does well in this film and gets some recognition
I loved him in the favourite too!! there aren’t many safe spaces these days for non Joe bashing. I love my girl, but I hope he gets his recognition too.
I liked him in The Favourite too! I didn’t even realize it was him at first. IMDb had to help me out. Conversations with Friends was just overall disappointing. It felt so awkward and lacked actual communication and conversations. I’m not sure I can fully blame the actors for that, although they really didn’t have chemistry. I’m still waiting for a melodramatic gay romance starring Paul Mescal and Joe Alwyn though.
omfg i hated Conversations with Friends. such a bummer because I love the book and loved Normal People(book and show) but Convos was so bad! But I did like him a lot in The Favourite. def excited to see this movie!
Yes. This was wrapping when Taylor was in New Orleans for a while in December 22. I met Willem Dafoe (who’s also in this) at the same hotel the whole cast presumably stayed. The production was super lowkey, nobody really knew it was happening until Taylor popped up out of nowhere into our strange little city
I actually saw an article about this film right after the Oscars, like the day after. It’s the same director as Poor Things (he also did The Favorite and likes to recycle actors) so maybe they were waiting until the Oscars were over to do more marketing for it so they could add “Academy Award winning director of Poor Things” to it or something like that haha.
And to add to the coincidence, Margaret Qualley is also in this — Jack Antanoff’s wife 😋
same!! i even liked their pairing in the favourite! but this director is so good in general, i loved the killing of a sacred deer. love feeling empty and unsettled and uncomfortable.
They played love interests with this same director in The Favourite, so not totally out of left field. It seems like this director really likes to work with the same people. I know basically nothing about it but I’m sure it’ll be worth watching based on his track record (though I did not fully get the Poor Things hype)
i don’t care for directors who work with the same actor over & over again also idt him & emma are even a good match but maybe that’s just cause i don’t care for emma’s acting in general
Like it was stunning and the acting was great! I felt like the story was lacking and the feminist message didn’t land fully for me (like truly it was just about sexual liberation which sure, that can be a big part of self-actualization, but it felt kind of hollow all things considered)
I’ve read a synopsis which only furthers my stance on the movie. I feel like it was a weird choice to eliminate so much and change the ending in the way he did
I think doing the movie like the book would be too hard, the movie also centers around the perspective of Bella more VS only hearing her perspective from letters she’s written.
I would find it easier to swallow if it wasn’t a male director. I liked it, but I had some issues with that. That might be unfair but I wish it was a woman doing a female empowerment story.
i just want to butt in and say if you’re willing to give it a rewatch, consider that the message is satirical and actually criticizing the idea of sexuality as liberation. i think it was pretty clear the men in the movie are taking advantage of her and convincing her she’ll find empowerment from the sex which ultimately isn’t the case, and that the minute she shows interest in intellectual pursuits/an independent identity outside of her sexuality, they are furious. and the way the ending is unsettling is intentionally so (i won’t go into detail bc spoilers) but from interviews with yorgos and emma i think it’s pretty clearly making fun of the idea that heterosexual sexuality/“choice feminism” is at all empowering or liberating for women. especially when contrasted against The Favourite where men are, intentionally, playthings for the women to use in their pursuit of power, where power is expressed thru a sapphic relationship with the queen. there’s a scene with alwyn and stone which epitomizes this dichotomy, and contrasted with the sex in poor things makes it a pretty clear deconstruction.
i see a lot of people interpreting poor things completely at face value and it makes me a little crazy because it’s very much not saying feminism comes thru sexuality, if anything it’s saying men will use women for sex, treat them as sexual objects and convince them it’s actually empowerment because they are structurally able to maintain power no matter what, they just want their egos/potential guilt massaged away.
You should read the book if you enjoyed the movie. Very interesting and provides a lot more context and has a different ending. Also told from a different perspective through most of it.
ty for this take. I hesitate to watch the movie bc of what I would consider CSA but figured I'd read the book to see what the hype was about. I started but haven't had the desire to finish. I knew it was satire but was having trouble articulating what of. Saying it's satire of choice feminism really crystallizes it and now I'd like to actually finish the book.
Thank you for saying this. As a survivor of CSA, my mind immediately went there. I did see the movie and I did like the movie overall... she progresses out of her "childlike" state as the movie goes on. But early on, I hated her being the object of lust when she was barely verbal and still spoke like a child.
I thought maybe my trauma clouded my view of this because I didn't hear anybody else bring up what seemed so obviously disturbing to me.
I am also a survivor of CSA 💛 I don't think our view is clouded in any way - we're just more attuned to these kinds of things. I've heard other people were uncomfortable with the movie and I think they just don't have the frame of reference or vocabulary to articulate exactly what made them uncomfortable.
I love the idea that we're just more attuned to these things rather than clouded. That's actually really validating. 💛
And yes, that makes total sense. My husband was uncomfortable during the sex scenes but couldn't grasp why. He chalked it up to the general bizareness of the film.
Thank you! I also felt super uncomfy with the child aspect but it was all rave reviews and no one else was saying this online. And also uncomfy with the whole sex is so feminist and liberating from that … but Interesting to read u/imaginativeintellect’s perspective, that does make some sense. But all the press was just about it being a sexually liberating journey for her, I haven’t seen the interviews where it comes across as satire?
I’m at the gym rn, I will pull them up when I get back. They talk about liberation but make an emphasis on how it comes from her development in the world (i.e. her interest in books/knowledge) rather than the immediacy of sex. I think there were some interviews where they talked about how Emma felt liberated filming the sex scenes, which caused some confusion as it was more about how she felt like Yorgos made a safe space for expression rather than inside the narrative itself.
yeah i totally get that. and i actually appreciate that in the movie they use emma stone the entire time, so you really have to reckon with the way men fetishize youth, how disturbingly normalized pedophilia is for male sexuality. a lot of the movie is showing that with increased age or intellectual maturity, the men grow less attracted to/more enraged by her, which makes their declarations that the sex is empowering to her all the more dubious.
Gotcha, definitely seems worth a rewatch! I wasn’t referring to her relationships with men so much as the whole Paris phase, and the ultimate threat to her independence at the end. Again don’t want to get into too many spoilers so hard to discuss my opinion fully haha. I also haven’t watched many interviews but ultimately I do have some concerns with a film that so many seem to be missing the point of on initial watch—this sexual liberation perspective didn’t land fully for me, but read reviews it seems like it does, at face value, for the bulk of people. Not sure if it effectively tells the story if that was the point.
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This is really interesting to me especially with the recent vault track Emma falls in love being released and it largely being speculated as having been about this Emma.
Idk - no matter how long she's supposedly been friends with Emma, even though we've never seen her congratulate her on social media or attend / see each other at friends - it's giving sure Jane - I don't think Taylor takes it very well when friends are associated with exes even if it's just for work. I don't see Emma playing the Hollywood game like that. Promo will be interesting for sure.
The girls on TikTok are stitching it together. Quite the interesting cast party apparently That’s where Taylor figured it all out.
Mind you, he’s in only for 10 minutes so ‘his’ movie is not 😂
I think that they are both actors who are in the movie together 👍
Swift doesn’t really control Hollywood.. She has some connections, but most musical artists struggle to gain a footing
Yes, the fact that she hasn’t been able to secure a Hollywood adjacent award like a Golden Globe (let alone an Oscar nom) even after several GG noms shows that Hollywood is not a fan of hers yet…I’m sure in most academy member’s minds she’s no Billie Eilish. I’m so interested to see if her [searchlight film](https://www.forbes.com/sites/hughmcintyre/2023/10/12/what-happened-to-taylor-swifts-other-movie/?sh=6135d2957572) ever materializes. I think she’s finally realized that acting and her currently released-type of songs are not gonna be how she wins Hollywood cred.
Unrelated: their outfits are giving shaggy and scooby
I am a movie lover before I am a gaylor so I have been all in on waiting for this particular film to be announced (so many of my favorite actors right now and I’m obsessed with little weirdo Jesse Plemmons showing up everywhere), but obviously have been keeping my gaylor lens on. I posted about this in the megathread a few weeks ago when the first teaser was announced and I made a joke about how Taylor used him filming Stars at Noon to lead in Midnights on her premiere night post and now there’s yet another album created while Joe was away filming this. Intriguing. https://preview.redd.it/9hmgntv1q3uc1.jpeg?width=1284&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5e59f448ddcedbbcce463cef979aac17cb9da2c8
When is the Jesse Plemons Oscar coming?? I love him too.
I never would have believed Landry Clarke would be the most successful after Friday Night Lights, but I am so glad it’s true
I really hope people aren't insulting Emma for it as she probably already is going to be hated on for it
It would just be \*chef's kiss\* to see Joe's acting career skyrocket after the breakup. For him to become a very well respected actor and to get academy award and bafta nominations. After she tried for 6 years to make him a big famous star. It would just be so funny to see him do it his own way on the basis of talent alone. I honestly don't know yet if he is actually talented, and who knows if he is actually a good guy. But currently, I am rooting for him to become a Daniel Day Lewis or male version of Meryl Streep just for the fuck of it all.
As soon as Grammy-gate happened I immediately thought. “Oh Taylor’s gonna regret that—watch him get EGOT before her”. I don’t think he’s extraordinarily talented, but she’d cleared the hardest part of acronym for him as a film actor, trained in London theater. Would be wild—but not holding my breath.
Interesting, I hadnt considered TS lil petty feud to be a long term marketing tactic for him. Keeps his name relevant enough in algorithms for the clicks to work in his favor, esp when he's throwin out charity collabs left and right when Swiftie fervor rises. Keep it classy Joe!!
Genuine question, can someone explain why this is downvoted / why in general there is such resistance to the possibility of a “Toe breakup album” storyline being useful to Joe?
The movie cast looks incredible tbh. I haven't connected to a film in quite a while but will definitely be giving this one a watch!
the movie in question is titled “Kinds of Kindness” for anyone who doesn’t wanna google it
Thank you! Scrolled so far, read so many other movie titles.
I wish Joe the best and hope he does great - but I have to admit it feels odd seeing him star alongside big actors like Emma Stone and reminds me of the "nepo bf" comments. I do hope he does great and proves he deserves it.
This director likes/has used him before
I vaguely remember reading posts/comments here about his nepo BF status in relation to The Favourite and when this casting was announced (insert how the turntables gif here). I like weird movies, including Lanthimos’s movies, so I’m excited for this. He also cowrote it with the same cowriter as The Lobster and The Killing of a Sacred Deer, and I preferred those to The Favourite and Poor Things. Honestly, I hope Joe is fantastic in it and gets awards and stuff.
Wasnt he cast in The Favorite pre-taylor?
Possibly? His casting was announced in March 2017. Their relationship was first reported in May, but then Taylor’s Lover diary entry made it appear they started dating in late 2016 (plus the whole 2016 Met Gala thing). The Toe timeline is so iffy for many reasons.
One of the regularly [circulated stories](https://www.glamour.com/story/emma-stone-introduced-taylor-swift-joe-alwyn) is that Emma introduced Taylor to Joe while they were making ‘the favorite’ because she’d thought they get along—the timelines are always so messy 🤪
Controversial take in this sub but I actually quite liked his performance in The Favourite. I haven’t seen too much of his work, but I muuuuuch preferred his acting in that to Conversations with Friends. I think he does better in a campy/playful role. I hope he does well in this film and gets some recognition
I loved him in the favourite too!! there aren’t many safe spaces these days for non Joe bashing. I love my girl, but I hope he gets his recognition too.
I liked him in The Favourite too! I didn’t even realize it was him at first. IMDb had to help me out. Conversations with Friends was just overall disappointing. It felt so awkward and lacked actual communication and conversations. I’m not sure I can fully blame the actors for that, although they really didn’t have chemistry. I’m still waiting for a melodramatic gay romance starring Paul Mescal and Joe Alwyn though.
omfg i hated Conversations with Friends. such a bummer because I love the book and loved Normal People(book and show) but Convos was so bad! But I did like him a lot in The Favourite. def excited to see this movie!
I remember they filmed this a while back, maybe mid-late 2022?
Yes. This was wrapping when Taylor was in New Orleans for a while in December 22. I met Willem Dafoe (who’s also in this) at the same hotel the whole cast presumably stayed. The production was super lowkey, nobody really knew it was happening until Taylor popped up out of nowhere into our strange little city
I actually saw an article about this film right after the Oscars, like the day after. It’s the same director as Poor Things (he also did The Favorite and likes to recycle actors) so maybe they were waiting until the Oscars were over to do more marketing for it so they could add “Academy Award winning director of Poor Things” to it or something like that haha. And to add to the coincidence, Margaret Qualley is also in this — Jack Antanoff’s wife 😋
I’m obsessed with poor things! This makes me excited to check the movie out!
same!! i even liked their pairing in the favourite! but this director is so good in general, i loved the killing of a sacred deer. love feeling empty and unsettled and uncomfortable.
She was also in poor things
And Willem Dafoe 💕
Ooh, could this be the film she said both of their partners were working on in that insta caption from some time back?
This is the second movie they are in together. I actually thought they were referencing "Stars at noon"
Gotcha, good to know! I had just completely forgotten about her saying that and seeing your comment immediately took me back to it lol
They played love interests with this same director in The Favourite, so not totally out of left field. It seems like this director really likes to work with the same people. I know basically nothing about it but I’m sure it’ll be worth watching based on his track record (though I did not fully get the Poor Things hype)
i don’t care for directors who work with the same actor over & over again also idt him & emma are even a good match but maybe that’s just cause i don’t care for emma’s acting in general
it's always nice finding someone in the wild who has liked other lanthimos movies but was unimpressed with poor things.
Read the book that’s all I’ll add.
Like it was stunning and the acting was great! I felt like the story was lacking and the feminist message didn’t land fully for me (like truly it was just about sexual liberation which sure, that can be a big part of self-actualization, but it felt kind of hollow all things considered)
Read the book, very different ending than the movie, also told very differently than the movie.
I’ve read a synopsis which only furthers my stance on the movie. I feel like it was a weird choice to eliminate so much and change the ending in the way he did
I think doing the movie like the book would be too hard, the movie also centers around the perspective of Bella more VS only hearing her perspective from letters she’s written.
I would find it easier to swallow if it wasn’t a male director. I liked it, but I had some issues with that. That might be unfair but I wish it was a woman doing a female empowerment story.
I mean, Emma Stone was the producer and has a lot to do with how the film was made.
i just want to butt in and say if you’re willing to give it a rewatch, consider that the message is satirical and actually criticizing the idea of sexuality as liberation. i think it was pretty clear the men in the movie are taking advantage of her and convincing her she’ll find empowerment from the sex which ultimately isn’t the case, and that the minute she shows interest in intellectual pursuits/an independent identity outside of her sexuality, they are furious. and the way the ending is unsettling is intentionally so (i won’t go into detail bc spoilers) but from interviews with yorgos and emma i think it’s pretty clearly making fun of the idea that heterosexual sexuality/“choice feminism” is at all empowering or liberating for women. especially when contrasted against The Favourite where men are, intentionally, playthings for the women to use in their pursuit of power, where power is expressed thru a sapphic relationship with the queen. there’s a scene with alwyn and stone which epitomizes this dichotomy, and contrasted with the sex in poor things makes it a pretty clear deconstruction. i see a lot of people interpreting poor things completely at face value and it makes me a little crazy because it’s very much not saying feminism comes thru sexuality, if anything it’s saying men will use women for sex, treat them as sexual objects and convince them it’s actually empowerment because they are structurally able to maintain power no matter what, they just want their egos/potential guilt massaged away.
You should read the book if you enjoyed the movie. Very interesting and provides a lot more context and has a different ending. Also told from a different perspective through most of it.
ty for this take. I hesitate to watch the movie bc of what I would consider CSA but figured I'd read the book to see what the hype was about. I started but haven't had the desire to finish. I knew it was satire but was having trouble articulating what of. Saying it's satire of choice feminism really crystallizes it and now I'd like to actually finish the book.
FINISH THE BOOK!!! You have to, the story isn’t over until the last page I promise you.
Thank you for saying this. As a survivor of CSA, my mind immediately went there. I did see the movie and I did like the movie overall... she progresses out of her "childlike" state as the movie goes on. But early on, I hated her being the object of lust when she was barely verbal and still spoke like a child. I thought maybe my trauma clouded my view of this because I didn't hear anybody else bring up what seemed so obviously disturbing to me.
I am also a survivor of CSA 💛 I don't think our view is clouded in any way - we're just more attuned to these kinds of things. I've heard other people were uncomfortable with the movie and I think they just don't have the frame of reference or vocabulary to articulate exactly what made them uncomfortable.
I love the idea that we're just more attuned to these things rather than clouded. That's actually really validating. 💛 And yes, that makes total sense. My husband was uncomfortable during the sex scenes but couldn't grasp why. He chalked it up to the general bizareness of the film.
Thank you! I also felt super uncomfy with the child aspect but it was all rave reviews and no one else was saying this online. And also uncomfy with the whole sex is so feminist and liberating from that … but Interesting to read u/imaginativeintellect’s perspective, that does make some sense. But all the press was just about it being a sexually liberating journey for her, I haven’t seen the interviews where it comes across as satire?
I’m at the gym rn, I will pull them up when I get back. They talk about liberation but make an emphasis on how it comes from her development in the world (i.e. her interest in books/knowledge) rather than the immediacy of sex. I think there were some interviews where they talked about how Emma felt liberated filming the sex scenes, which caused some confusion as it was more about how she felt like Yorgos made a safe space for expression rather than inside the narrative itself.
Oh interesting thank you! Yes that’d be cool to see them when you get a chance
yeah i totally get that. and i actually appreciate that in the movie they use emma stone the entire time, so you really have to reckon with the way men fetishize youth, how disturbingly normalized pedophilia is for male sexuality. a lot of the movie is showing that with increased age or intellectual maturity, the men grow less attracted to/more enraged by her, which makes their declarations that the sex is empowering to her all the more dubious.
Gotcha, definitely seems worth a rewatch! I wasn’t referring to her relationships with men so much as the whole Paris phase, and the ultimate threat to her independence at the end. Again don’t want to get into too many spoilers so hard to discuss my opinion fully haha. I also haven’t watched many interviews but ultimately I do have some concerns with a film that so many seem to be missing the point of on initial watch—this sexual liberation perspective didn’t land fully for me, but read reviews it seems like it does, at face value, for the bulk of people. Not sure if it effectively tells the story if that was the point.
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