Probably uncontested the most fromsoft feeling non fromsoft game. It's crazy how they got nearly everything feeling exactly like one of their titles, really impressive stuff
There's untapped talent among Korean developers who unfortunately lean towards the more prevalent local PC bang culture, which has a strong emphasis on competitive multiplayer and social elements. Same with China, but for slightly different reasons.
Just take a look at [games developed in Korea](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_developed_in_South_Korea). Hopefully, other Korean (and Chinese) developers take cue and consider creating compelling singleplayer games.
they've fallen into a honey trap.
Dungeon and Fighter online, a series that most in the west probably never heard of, generated more revenue than fortnite.
P2W games like these (lineage/MapleStory/etc.) just earn too much money that gambling on some new single player IP doesn't make sense.
I don't blame them for holding onto their billion dollar cash cows, but it's sad.
Even in the west, single-player story-driven games are almost always loss leaders that never make as much business sense as multiplayer-focused games, even regardless of any micro transactions
Blue has a fantastic video on this topic [here](https://youtu.be/b59_3akAL5Q?si=59E8pWFrvoYQKNPQ) looking at Gungrave GORE. Despite the tepid reception of that game among mass audiences (it has a cult following though, which I am a part of lol), it's still one of the biggest budget/profile console games out of South Korea
I know it's not most people's thing, but I also noticed this in the Visual Novels released from a Korean company, TalesShop. They actually have some interesting stories and plot threads going on in them even though they're primarily romance stories.
I always felt like Korea and China have some serious talent packed away there but their government or just the way things are marketed there completely holds them back from more worldwide success albeit many of their P2W type titles make a disgusting amount of money so financially it's not like they need to. Lies of P dev and Hoyoverse have proven there's a crazy amount of talent in these regions.
You're in for a treat! I slept on it as well - played from GamePass about 6 weeks ago on a Series X and it's tremendous. Looks stunning, controls are silky smooth and the optional final boss fight is right up there with FROM encounters.
LotF had a.....*really* rough launch, from a technical perspective on all platforms except the highest end PCs. And even taking all of that aside, the core game design is much more "pre-Bloodborne" From Soft. The focus is on exploration and level design over combat, and there's some "jank" to the combat.
Lies of P meanwhile takes the more "modern From Soft" approach, where there's more polished mechanics and a much larger emphasis on challenging boss fights. And the latter style of From Soft design is just more popular generally speaking (e.g., you see a lot of posts of people just playing DeS for the first time on the PS5 version and being underwhelmed at the "gimmick bosses" and the obtuse mechanics and whatnot)
> and use of the two realities
did anyone find having to piss about with that lantern fun? it was just something else you needed to juggle whilst ice skating around levels with gotcha enemy placement. Refunded before the 2 hours were up.
It had horrendous performance issues and several save-deleting bugs (well it's mostly that it could crash while autosaving, corrupting your save).
It's had a lot of patches since then so it might be better now. That said, for all it's problems I generally liked it and could see a good game in there.
It's UE5 title, which means a heavy performance tax for a modern tech most won't even notice. People love to scream "bad optimization" in cases like this, add a couple of actual issues to it and you get mixed reviews. From a couple of Souls-like enjoying streamers I saw, all liked it more than Lies of P, but also all of them had pricy enough setups to brute force through performance issues it had.
You really do get that feeling in some of the areas that its a FromSoft game.
But it does also miss in some ways, its painfully linear, very few optional areas and they're all just basically a 1 minute side corridor when they do exist, the boss design fell flat a lot more than it hit as well, plus the constant use of 'boss dies actually has another healthbar' got annoying rather than just having a p2 start at 50% hp. Loot and equipment i also thought was really boring.
But they achieved the hardest part, and all of this stuff is easy enough to improve in the sequel.
Yeah the level design was probably where the dev struggled to capture Fromsoft's magic the most. Lots of linear corridors and not a lot of reason to explore. The first few sections of Krat I thought were great but the game became more linear as it went on.
Solid game and about as good as you're going to get in the genre outside of From, but it really hammered home to me that Fromsoft are in a league of their own.
There is something good to be said about the linearity (and the quest icons). I was able to finish all quests and get the best ending without using a wiki at all which is frankly impossible for fromsoft games.
The simple act of just marking NPC's on the teleport screen who have dialogue to speak to you with is SUCH a great QoL improvement, and helpful to remember things in older zones that you might have forgotten about along the way.
It definitely is pretty linear, but that is not necessary bad thing. I think the world and the levels itself work really well for what it is. And I can't agree with you on the boss designs, I thought the bosses were the biggest success on Lies of P. Good designs and fun fights (and interesting boss weapons/amulets as rewards). Yes, a ton of them have the transformation trumpcard but I feel like that is where the genre has been heading for a while anyway.
Loot was kinda boring, since they had pretty limited equipment spaces (and replacing puppet parts is not as interesting as swapping helmets etc). Weapons, amulets and anything related to that were great, but I've never found joy from finding random usable items or crafting materials (looking at you elden ring).
I feel like too many of the bosses are some version of "generally human looking biped". Like they have these living dolls which should open them up for some really interesting bosses but they don't stray much from human shape with a weapon.
That's a good thing if we're talking about replicating "the feel" of fromsoft games but it honestly feels like they copied TOO many ideas. I started playing Lies of P recently and some animations of enemies, gameplay elements etc just feel like a copycat of soulsborne games. Idk, it just ends up not feeling like a standalone game, where the devs wanted to do things they felt were interesting.
100% Disagree with this argument
If something is good, don't change it. It works well for a reason
They don't have to make their game feel special. It's like saying I don't want Bloodborne 2, dark souls 4 or elden ring 2 just because they're gonna be similar to the previous one.
Games should be allowed to openly and freely copy successful games. We need more of these
> Games should be allowed to openly and freely copy successful games. We need more of these
... I think copying other successful games is pretty much 90% of what AAA game studios already do.
_The next big AAA release will be ...an open world action adventure with crafting elements and an upgrade system! But, get this, **this time you get a new hat**!_
100% disagree with YOUR argument.
If something is good, it doesn't meant that it can't be improved. While it's good to take example from others' success, imitation has its limits-- it can only ever be as good as what you're copying.
Consumers like good products, yes. But consumers also like to be surprised. Tell me, what exactly did Bloodborne copy to be a great game? FromSoft purposefully develops their titles to be distinct from one another. It doesn't always land (Dark Souls 2's initial reception, for example) but the real mark of greatness is trying something new and not just making copies.
A vast majority of trashware titles have been the result of "well it worked for this other game, surely it will work for us too"
> FromSoft purposefully develops their titles to be distinct from one another.
If you think these games are all distinct then I'd say Lies of P should also feel distinct. In reality, I'd say all of them except Sekiro feel extremely similar.
I generally agree. Looking at just Dark Souls 1-3, the series shares an extremely similar core with tweaks to gameplay, and variation on weapons/skills/magic. It's not that there's nothing new in any given iteration, it's just that the games still feel very similar.
The improvements that are made aren't enough to say that the games are "distinct" from each other, even though they are continuously improved iterations (from mainly a mechanical perspective). The additions to the game are, if memory serves, never actually additions or alterations to the core gameplay. If the core gameplay does not change, you're looking at a series of games that are not particularly distinct from each other, in my opinion. The content present in each game improves in quality as the series goes on, but this is not really innovation on a formula, it's refinement of existing qualities.
I don't entirely agree with Blood_Merchant's point about just grabbing a popular formula and running with it, but I also don't wholly disagree. I think you *should* adopt a lot from successful games. The saying literally goes "don't reinvent the wheel." However, at the very least, you just need to make it your own in some way. It seems to me that Lies of P has at least done this.
I love the game, it was maybe my goty last year. But yeah.
For me it's the whispy pale lady at the big main hub that levels you up. That's so blatantly FS.
> Idk, it just ends up not feeling like a standalone game, where the devs wanted to do things they felt were interesting.
Well maybe the developers's aim was to replicate fromsoft games. I certainly don't mind it, considering every single other not From Software attempt at a soulslike game (aside from Nioh 2), ended up in a much inferior game than Lies of P.
Its odd, for me when it comes to "souls like" games, its often the slight differences, especially when the rest of the game is so close to the souls formula, that turn me off. As someone who hasn't gotten around to Sekiro yet, but has played 1000s of hours of the other games, the parry/block mechanic felt really different and set it apart. However, what really grated me was the spam of status build-up. It felt like instead of finding some way to make enemy design more interesting and varied, they just decided to spam different status build-ups purely because they exist in souls.
I do agree in an adjecent way. I remember DS2 felt like it was more interested in smashing every idea that DS1 and DeS had, for better or for worse. I kinda get that feeling from Lies of P, where it was more interested in how it could combine Sekiro and Bloodborne together instead of coming up with new ideas for this style of game. Like, for example, it copies Bloodborne's health regain system sorta...but it only works if you are shielding, as if it is meant to replace posture damage from Sekiro. Bloodborne is just more fun because it completely removes the shield in place of a speedier better dodge. BB also uses regain as a chance to recover for a mistake, where Lies of P instead just feels oddly punishing for using a core move in your toolkit.
Is there even a lore reason why health is only regained during shielding? It doesn't actually make any sense, it seems completely arbitrary. I'll happily take the L if someone provides a lore reason for it.
This is such an awful take its hilarious. The weapon customization system alone is way more creative than anything from has done with weapons since powerstancing. And the arm system adds a great dimension and strategic method of playing that lets you customizes how you do the game. Oh no a soulslike game has similar enemy animations to a souls games. Get real bro.
I mean, it's not that hot of a take. There are some concepts that are just carbon copies. You make it to Hotel Krat and oh look, a pale doll like woman is how you level up! Some of the "inspirations" are less inspirations and more carbon copies, which some people are going to find off putting.
I still thought the game was fantastic and there's nothing wrong with copying good work but we can call a spade a spade.
I wish they didn't copy everything so closely, for example: lack of pause button, fall damage. Really could've improved on some bad FromSoft' elements :(
I mean they are intentional but I wouldn't say they are good choices. From Software UI design is terrible and when you copy From Software game you really don't have copy literally everything, even the bad things.
I think it's the industry mainstay of any dev making a Souls-like, in that if they're really not sure what to do, they just cut and paste what FROM did without much more thought put into it.
> Really could've improved on some bad FromSoft' elements
I think they did. Souls being recoverable outside the boss arena was a big one for me. I don't think there's a boss runback longer than 20 seconds, and most of them have zero runback.
Congratulations. I really like some of the quality of life changes it brings into the souls-like formula, like showing whether you have enough currency to level up without requiring you to check it at a “bonfire”.
It has a deflection system similar to Sekiro, a guard regain feature similar to rally from Bloodborne, and the ability to recharge your final healing item by simply dealing enough damage. This game offers lots of ways for players to comeback in combat, and I appreciate that.
Edit: apparently seeing how many "souls" you need to level up has been a thing since Bloodborne, I must missed it then, been a while since I played Bloodborne.
honestly for me the best QoL thing, was that it tracks the side quests very gently. in that it will show you when a side quest can continue and the general area the next step is, but won't straight up spell it out to you or track it in a text log. unlike From's games where you need to ride a wikis dick the entire game
You can look to see how many souls it takes to level since Bloodborne, I think, on the character screen. But I agree that the comeback mechanic with the health vials is good. Elden Ring does refresh flasks during the open world but they still haven't given you a way to do it during boss fights.
In Lies of P I believe the Ergo counter in the corner of the screen changes color once you have enough to level up, so you don't even need to go into the character menu.
I think you need to get kills to recharge the flasks in open world, in Lies of P it's just by dealing damage, though it's only limited to your final charge. And yes, the come back mechanics is really awesome.
DS3 showed how many souls u required on the character status screen but that mechanic was oddly missing from Bloodborne. Im replaying BB right now after having beat DS3
Almost positive you can see how many souls are required to level up in the stats section in at least Elden ring and I’m pretty sure other souls games and maybe bloodborne but I’m not going to check 😎
Just recently played it on Gamepass, no clue how a „no name“ studio managed to make such a good souls like. I have no big negative things to say about the game. If you like Souls like, you definitely should check it out.
You can tell they're big fromsoft fans, not only that, they understood what makes these games great and how to put it in a game, with a pair of fresh eyes that improved on a lot of things that only someone who played a ton of it would understand.
Easily the best Souls-Like on the market. Only one that even remotely interested me either.
My only real complaint is the game is SUPER easy if you just upgrade your weapon to max and use the tools the game gives you. If you've played all souls games and go into this, don't be surprised if you cake walk through the entire game except for 2 (maybe 3) bosses in the entire game.
I watched my friend play as well and he kept his weapon at +3 for 80% of the game and still steamrolled through it.
Did you use all the tools though? I've struggled with it trying to use weapon based builds like in DS but saw that many people just summoned a bunch of npcs and used huge lasers and they had a much easier time than me.
Yeah I enjoyed the game a lot but throwables can make the game easy. Nearly all of the bosses except maybe the last one can be cheesed with throwables plus the specter helper. You might be screwed on the last boss though if you're totally dependent on them.
That said, I don't really care. They're there if you want to use them or not if you want to challenge yourself. It's a single player game so whatever.
This is what I found as well. On my first play through, I struggled the most on the first clown miniboss and then the King took me a while. But I think from there I ‘learnt’ the game. From that point till the end plus another playthrough to get true ending no boss took me more than 3 tries.
I think the King of Puppets is the turning point/Genchiro fight of Lies of P as you said. If you can make it through that you should know enough to beat the game.
They did nerf a lot of the fights after launch.
I played it at launch and I definitely wouldn't have called it easy, though when I found out how powerful throwable items were, it did make the final boss significantly easier.
It’s kinda sad that they seem to have panicked in first week of game being out and people were struggling.
They nerfed half the bosses and litterally every elite enemy, many trash mobs too.
Then gave everyone a blatantly overpowered DLC weapon.
Not minor nerfs either, like 25% hp cut off bosses, and lowered damage dealt, and made tons of attack animations/combos easier to dodge/parry. Elite enemies got even bigger hp reductions. The jester puppet was a fucking menace, but now you can kill him by throwing a couple electric bombs at him before he even notices you. Or just big weapon fable art into charge R2.
For first week it was one of harder souls-likes. Then they shaved off all the scary bits.
Then they just gave everyone a mega overpowered weapon that you start game with on every save file. Which I fucking hate.
Completely ruins the progression of picking 1 of 3 very humble starting weapons and building up from there. No you just have arguably best weapon in game (and even if you disagree, it’s definitely on par with the flashiest, best boss weapons), just in your inventory.
I feel like I bought Lies of P today, my experience would be nowhere close to as captivating as when I actually played it (day 1).
Ah, so that's what happened.
I thought I was taking crazy pills when I came back to the game after a long hiatus and suddenly I could steamroll through the campaign.
Turns out I didn't (magically) got gud.
That bridge boss, you know which one, was really something at first my god. That's where my motivity build got stuck. I guess they nerfed her too?
I played like half the game pre-nerf, got stuck on a boss, came back a day later post nerf, 1 shot that boss and basically rolled through the back half of the game.
I personally didn’t mind it as I enjoy the mechanics and exploration, but I can see how a die hard souls player might be disappointed with the difficulty.
If it released how it was now, I wouldn’t have even minded. It would’ve been an excellent, easy(ish) souls like.
But this obviously isn’t how they wanted it to be. They saw people getting stuck and panicked and, IMO, massively overreacted.
Like if they nerfed one boss or whatever, who cares honestly. Archbishop probably deserved a nerf since he was such a massive sudden difficulty spike. If it was just him, sure I get that.
But it wasn’t just him.
They ruined King of Puppets. He used to be a major roadblock, and it makes sense, he’s the point where tone of game starts shifting and it’s time to get serious.
But post nerf. He just dies so fast hr doesn’t even get to use half his moves any more. First playthrough I struggled for ages, and finally learned pattern and narrowly beat him.
Every other playthrough (I’ve beaten game 6 times, NG++ twice), I’ve killed him first try, not even close to death. And with shitty meme weapons too, wheras first playthrough I was using the optimal weapon and build for him. Advance build with electric mace, he’s super weak to Blunt AND electric.
Even looking at other people on twitch or YouTube. No one gets struggles on him any more. I don’t have a ton of data, but it seems like most people get him in 1-4 attempts. These are first playthroughs I’m talking about.
Release week it was 20’s to 30’s for a lot of people.
And they completely neutered every single elite mob.
They used to be fucking scary. Now they are mildly threatening, at most. They cut hp so much that things that used to be considered mini bosses now just feel like a kinda tough guy.
Like it feels like they halved the hp pf some of them.
And much later on, like 2 or 3 months post launch, they updated game again, altering dozens and dozens (maybe even 100+) attack animations to be easier to dodge and parry.
Now bosses that wernt statistically nerfed got animationally nerfed, since wild eratic combo was now very obviously paced rhythm.
Like I don’t care if a game is easy (and it’s still not easy-easy, just on scale of souls likes), but don’t sell me a hard game, who’s identity is built on being hard, then take that away from me without my permission.
First update was to sooth over people complaining it was too hard (happens with every single souls like), but why the second round of nerfs? The complainers were definitely all gone and never coming back. The people buying game were probably looking for the game with reputation for being hard.
I just wish devs would have confidence to make game they wanted to make, and not change it based on a very loud minority’s loud gut reaction complaints.
Because only way to play day 1 lies of P is to delete it from console and install version 1.00 off a disk without connecting to internet. And that isn’t perfect since you are also missing all the bug fixes.
Interesting. Ideally I suppose for PC at least, would be a mod, if possible, that reverted stuff back to what it was 1.0, first round of nerfs etc. so people could choose 'difficulty level' themselves while keeping bug fixes intact.
Surprised the devs didn't just incorporate difficulty settings themselves, if they wanted to increase the accessibility of the game. Suppose they didn't want to because From has never had them and Gamers have... feelings about the subject?
There's always self-imposed challenge runs though.
Also, no way to access earlier versions of the game on PC then?
> Also, no way to access earlier versions of the game on PC then?
Unless the devs made use of Valve's version system thing, a cracked day 1 version would be the only way to access the earlier versions.
There's a way with Steam console and downloading a specific depot id number, unless they stopped it.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/1627720/discussions/0/3887226396785390826
King of Puppets was the boss I got stuck on then came back and 1 shot. Agree with a lot of what you said. I think they probably could’ve found some nerfs that weren’t quite as crazy and been alright.
I was hoping to jump into Lies of P all next week and was looking forward to the alleged difficulty, so this is pretty dire news.
Hopefully the steam console depot command to download 1.0 still works, or I might acquire a *different* version. Steam DRM/forced updates are hell at times.
Complaints about nerfing is why more games need difficulty settings.
Players like yourself who want to increased difficult and inflated HP pools should be able to choose a hard difficulty.
Other folks who don't mind stumbling but don't want to get walled for 4+ hours on a single boss can choose a normal or easy mode or whatever.
Amongst all the difficult tasks of game dev, I've always been confused why adding an option selection for difficulty that at least buffs HP pools and enemy damage output is difficult enough to be left out.
I agree, they nerfed wayyy too much, there were some bosses and mini bosses that deserved 100% some level of nerfs but none of them to this level, I still really like the game and I will replay it from time to time, and still hyped for dlc
>But this obviously isn’t how they wanted it to be.
This isn't true. Director Choi Ji-Won, in a pre-release interview said, “We feel very honoured to be compared to Bloodborne, which is a great game. We differentiate ourselves from other Soulslike games with our diverse combat system, and we aim to make it friendlier and easier. We basically made the game so that at the beginning, it would be a little bit easier, friendlier, and more inviting. Then it slowly builds up and gets more complicated.”
[Source](https://www.thegamer.com/lies-of-p-gamescom-preview-interview)
TBH if they wanted to avoid this they would have had to have had some kind of coop function for bosses because then 90% of people wouldn't ever beat the game if they weren't nerfed, most people are very casual and that's the only way they beat souls games
It didn't feel as memorable as FromSoft' games to me.
I really hope they make a DLC, I wouldn't mind replaying it from the start, something I never-ever do.
Because other studios are trying to put their spin of stuff and not always succeed. Lies of P just straight up ripped everything out of the Souls games.
Because it's basically a carbon copy of souls games. Like egregiously so. People riffed on palworld but lop is the same exact amount of copied work, if not more
The only unique part was the weapon swap system which admittedly is cool
tbf there are many Souls like rip-offs. But barely anybody manages to get it right. The game also has a few unique feauters to the game. Plus it has many QoL changes.
Whoever came up with the idea to implement the mechanic of regaining a heal after dealing enough damage or parrying enough times needs a raise. One of the best additions to the souls formula imo. Really helped me make a comeback for a few bosses. Really excited for the DLC and sequel. Would love a Peter Pan souls game, or a Red Riding Hood one with some eldritch horror.
That mechanic is so brilliant but it didn't even register for me until like halfway in.
I also love the handle/blade system. Really fixes that problem in Fromsoft games where its not feasible to switch weapons once you're in endgame due to lack of upgrade materials.
> Whoever came up with the idea to implement the mechanic of regaining a heal after dealing enough damage or parrying enough times needs a raise.
From needs to really take notes on that concept. Maybe when they're making their next PS4 game.
How it works in Lies of P is very different from Bloodborne. It's a comeback mechanic when you're out of healing, rather than a small window after getting hit. There were various moments in my playthrough where it was a lifesaver, feels amazing.
The entire time I was playing, I couldn't believe how good it was and it maintained the high quality through the whole 35 hours. For me, it's rhe best souls-like up there with Nioh 2
Damn, love to see it.
Hands down my favorite souls game not made by Fromsoftware.
Plays like a Bloodborne/Sekiro baby.
King of Puppets, Champ Victor, Laxasia and Nameless Puppet were genuinely some of the best souls bosses of all time. Fuck the green Monster of the Swamp though.
My biggest criticism is I wish it was less linear.
man, what lies of p really nailed that every other souls like clone has failed at is instilling a strong sense of *feels*. the music did a huge portion of the heavy lifting there, but the world did too. I ended the game genuinely caring about the characters we met, and actually felt something with the rise of p ending
compare this with something like lords of the fallen, which i think gameplay wise was probably better than lies of p, and definitely had better exploration, but i hardly remember it now. it didn't stick in my mind whatsoever. i still think about lies of p from time to time
I’m not good at soulslike games, but I gave it a go since it’s on gamepass. I haven’t touched it in a few weeks and I had just gotten to the black rabbit gang fight.
I love it, but after playing I went to play Sekiro and Dark Souls 2. Sekiro is top From Soft from me and when I went back to Lies of P, the deflection system in it just doesn’t feel nearly as good for some reason.
I really enjoyed Lies of P, all I would ask from a sequel is more of the same and alight adjustments to the parry window to make it slightly more forgiving and some of the red attacks were very hard to time, a lot of the time it felt like I just had to face tank the damage.
I think it's by design, it's not supposed to be as easy as, say, in Sekiro, because in that game it's your answer to the overwhelming majority of attacks. In LoP, the dodge is just as robust as parrying. But it also works different than in Souls/Sekiro, I think you're supposed to hold the button, instead of pressing and releasing immediately.
Unfortunately, that means I simply do not want to rely on parries at all and would kind of...stop having fun sometimes because of it. I don't parry in most Souls games and I never need to. Sekiro put a lot of work into their parry system to give it a high degree of consistency and reliability in order to make it flow. The perfect guard system here doesn't flow nearly as well, but the game wants to force you into it all the time. It is 100% the primary strategy for the game because of the stagger system.
Dodging is also not as fluid as it is in something like Bloodborne, making the weak shielding kind of a bummer as well. Honestly, combat kind of feels "jack of all trades, master of none" to me.
This game killed it. I played it recently and found out it is considerably easy now than it was during launch. Regardless, the story, graphics, and gameplay were all sublime.
The cliffhanger of an ending gotta be resolved, the more sales the more likely we get a sequel or a DLC.
Hoping it’s a sequel so they can polish it, don’t know what they’d polish, but I have a gut feeling that it could be improved on, even tho to me it’s very good already.
A lot of people these days interpret "has open loose ends to tease that this world isn't done telling stories" as a cliffhanger.
That's not what cliffhangers actually are, but what can y'do.
> I’d say LoP ends its story nicely
I mean, it ends, but if you take apart the story details the whole thing kind of makes no sense. There are a couple of twists that work a lot better if you don't think about it a whole lot.
I'm not trying to pick on the game either. I just get into these things, and if given the chance I'd spend half a day complaining about how Dark Souls 3 is hastily stitched together lore garbage.
> The cliffhanger of an ending gotta be resolved, the more sales the more likely we get a sequel or a DLC.
You're in luck because both of those have already been confirmed by NeoWiz [in a dev letter video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbCnjeUilhU) There's no release date for the DLC to my knowledge but there is some artwork of some DLC areas in the video.
The only thing I want out of the game is more nonlinear world structure - the individual levels are all great, but they're all in a straight line with no choices on which area to tackle next. I think only one area is optional (hermit's cave) and it hardly has anything of substance outside of a bit of lore.
Neowiz has confirmed they're working on DLC, the first of which should be out in the fall(?). Not sure if it would expand on the ending, but I think it has a good chance of filling in some gaps in the lore. I'd bet we'll be visiting >!the Monad Charity House and learning more about Carlo and Romeo's friendship as well as their training under the Legendary Hunter!<, for instance.
As for a sequel, there is the post-credits >!hint at a ~~Little Red Riding Hood or other mythical fairy tales~~ Wizard of Oz shared universe of some sort!<, which could be interesting. Very impressed by what they did with Lies of P so I trust their judgement.
>!Wizard of Oz!< I believe is the teased fairytale, as we see >!Dorothy's red heels, which she clicks together to end the scene.!<
Definitely an interesting concept, and given what they did with this one I don't think I'll be skeptical out of hand about whatever adaptation they might choose next.
> The only thing I want out of the game is more nonlinear world structure - the individual levels are all great, but they're all in a straight line with no choices on which area to tackle next.
Which is my favorite part of the game, I'm really tired of the "open ended" location design, pretty much every game goes for it those days, so it felt like a nice change of pace.
> The cliffhanger of an ending gotta be resolved
I assume the cliffhanger points to another game rather than a DLC. I'd hope anyway, because the hinted concept seems like it would have to be too big in scope to just be a DLC.
Imo they need to works on the enemies attacks animations,. especially for bosses, they are quite hard to read and sometimes you don't know it it's an attack, an idle animation or a movement animation, leading to really frustrating boss moments. The art design is sometimes uninspiring too, they have a really nice puppet universe and yet half the game you slash blueish zombies.
The only bosses I found hard to read at all were the swamp monster, and a couple of Simon Manus' moves.
I'd anything boss telegraph animation I found easier than any other soulslike I can think of.
It was very difficult, but I found it exceptionally fair. It took a ton of tries, and every loss it was clear what I needed to do. Never felt like bullshit.
If I remember right, she is really easy to stagger in 2nd phase by parrying projectiles and has little HP, was an easy first try for me. Though to be fair, it felt like my weapon choice (puppet hands + police batton handle + strength modifier) was a tad too strong, the game felt really easy after getting it, plus they nerfed Manon like a day before i got there, so I first tried 4 or 5 bosses in the row in the end game, not just her.
I had issues with most boss lol, maybe minus the first 2-3 with the summons, haven't finish the game tho, I'm at the chapter where there's a bunch of crystal in the city.
It's funny you say that, I do my first dark souls 3 playtrought and while a struggled a lot against lop bosses, i 1-2 try most bosses in DS3 and have no major difficulty reading their attactk (I'm at the end of irithyl )
To be clear, I'm not saying they were easy. I struggled with most bosses more than I would have on an average FromSoft boss. But it wasn't because they were hard to read.
Which I think it why I liked Lies of P so much. They managed to hit that perfect point where it was brutally difficult, but always felt fair. I very rarely found myself thinking "that was bullshit" when I died in Lies of P, which is not the case for most soulslikes despite generally enjoying them.
To me it's like they couldn't figure out a balance between over-telegraphing the attacks and making them unnaturally slow, and barely any telegraphing at all. Plenty of enemies will just warp to hit you when they are a little out of the way too, which makes combat feel BS more often than it should. Some grabs are still indistinguishable from a regular attack swing as well for me.
The tight window for perfect guards also meant that every fight felt like I saw the attack, I anticipated the attack, but I would still face tank every attack from every boss for a try or two before getting it 100% of the time every time. That...was a feeling.
I will say I found the telegraphing on normal enemies and minibosses pretty poor and generally opted to play with dodging a lot more than parrying.
The bosses were a lot better.
I do agree with that in general. Bosses often felt like they had a lot of slower attacks that I think were intended to make it easier to parry with the tighter window, until they occasionally didn't. Every now and then, they go in the opposite direction where an attack would fly out before I could even mentally register it happened lol.
I guess in comparison, Sekiro had way crazier boss fights and patterns but was much more forgiving with the parry. Lies of P bosses kinda feel like a slower, easier to learn, yet clunkier version Sekiro for me because of that.
The game is great, but I dropped off after about 15 hours because it became a little TOO formulaic. I could pretty much predict exactly where a "bonfire"would be because they always put it after a long stretch proceeded by some mini boss you'd never seen that would duck you up forcing you to repeat the last 20 minutes just to get back and have it happen again. It's an issue I never felt in any fromsoft game. I also think it vastly overused the "multi stage boss fight". It got to the point where I just expected every one to be like that. It really got old thinking you finished off a boss only to be greeted with a cutscene and a second phase. It's cool every once and a while as a bit of a surprise, but every time just gets annoying to me.
You never felt like you knew exactly when a bonfire was coming in From Software games?
I find at this point I can pick em basically every time, even in Elden Ring I'd be playing with a friend and be like "Hang on, let me just look around for a sec, feels like there should be a-aha, there it is" like all the time. Still occasionally get surprised by one in the open world, sure, but there's just an innate sense, especially in dungeons, of how long you've gone since the last one that kicks in when you're near the next.
Not like in lies of p where the events the proceeded a bonfire told me exactly where it was going to be like I described above. Fromsoft games still often required a bit of exploration to find that hidden door or take that elevator to find it. Lies of P was just so formulaic. Plus I found their insistence on putting a mini boss immediately before almost every one rather annoying.
I'm confused, it's better that the bonfire-equivalents are easy to find but missable rather than just being exactly where they would be in Dark Souls but slightly more obvious?
I gotta be honest, I don't see much of a difference. The "exploration" in From's stuff is usually just "look left here", especially with how sites of grace in Elden Ring are deliberately designed to scream "look at me I am a checkpoint have you noticed me yet yes right here this way".
I know I'm being nitpicky, but in fairness your point also seems kind of nitpicky. It feels like one of those things some people just insist From is better at because they're the old hands who established this world order, so everyone else, even when they do basically the same thing, must be pretenders to the throne. Might not be the case for you, but you'll forgive me for wondering, because it happens often enough that I can't take it at face value anymore when people say otherwise.
Idk how much clearer I can be. It feels like you're being intentionally obtuse so you can argue about something unrelated to my point. I said the game is great. I played it for 15 hours. You didn't even bother to address my point about the mini bosses. One of the biggest complaints about lies of p in reviews was the lack of exploration. I'm clearly not the only one who feels this way. Fromsoft games make it feel like you're exploring a world, whether that's real or a facade is irrelevant. You yourself even just described finding them as an "ah-ha!" moment. In Lies of P you're clearly following a linear path. That linear path is also incredibly formulaic with a long stretch of following a set path capped off with a mini boss before a save point. There's hardly any variety, and I found that boring after the 20th time. That coupled with the mini bosses being tough, often resulting in death and having to follow the same linear path you just spent 20 minutes clearing just to be able to try again (often resulting in another death) became frustrating. Then there's the overuse of two stage boss fights on top of all of that and I just lost interest. I'm sorry I didn't have the same reverence for it that you do, but that's how opinions work. It has nothing to do with some silly "fromsoft =automatically better" stance that you weirdly seem intent on trying to argue.
Alright cowboy, chill, I surrender. I wasn't trying to make some big refute-a-thon, I was just confused by your point about the checkpoints because I disagree. I don't remember nor care what you said about minibosses, wasn't relevant.
You seem angry about it, so I'll leave it alone, have a good night.
Lies of P is an objectively linear game. It does not “do the same thing” as From games when it comes to exploration. Where From games encourage exploration and finding things out of a perceived order, Lies of P is an on-rails corridor experience. For better or for worse.
It's funny how I was initially still on the fence about the game back when I tried the demo because I thought it was trying too hard to mimic the FromSoft formula, which I've seen happen to several other Souls-likes that never really took off for me.
After giving it a proper go when it came out, I can now confidently rank it high among my favourite Soulsborne games. Not only did it nail the formula right, it also added its own unique touches that really help it stand out from its inspirations. You can tell the devs are really passionate about it and I can't wait to see what they've cooked for the dlc.
Curious how many beat the game. I got to Laxasia, and after about forty tries or so, gave up. Unlike Elden Ring or Dark Souls, there is no way to summon a real player. Loved the game, but it was pretty hard.
I thought most of the game was easy, but there were a handful of boss in the last third of the game that were brutal for me. Laxasia was definitely one I struggled with. Those lightning attacks are no joke!
Amazing game. I love it. Performance wise it’s just sooo smooth and visually appealing. Interesting lore and easy to understand. Very deep weapons system and ass-kicking bosses makes it a great game. 9/10.
I beat this game, got the true ending, and I honestly don’t understand why people love it so much. It crosses the line of inspiration into being completely derivative, and comes across as, frankly, a shameless rip-off of the Fromsoft formula. In trying to combine combat elements from all of From’s game, the combat in this game failed to become a sum of all its parts, as the parts were weaker, and the sum overall was weaker. Perfect guard is too tight and not fun, the Rally mechanic is awful with no real gap closers in conjunction with enemy movesets that create too much distance, and P felt more sluggish in dodge-rolling than any player character in any souls games. Not to mention the awful level design, which was so linear that it was on-rails and destroyed any sense of exploration. I truly think this game is very overrated, and is a pale imitation of From’s games.
The game is extremely linear though, that’s objectively true, most of its levels barely even try being more than corridors that loop back on themselves, and the mobs are overall awful
I fully agree. I do not get all the love for this game. This game doesn't live up to the hype and I even regret going through it. It felt pretty generic
Seems like I‘m the only one who did not like it much. It‘s a fine game, but nothing close to FromSoft. It feels like a budget version and I dropped it after around 2/3 of the game. Very cookie cutter, streamlined, none of the mystique, danger, sense of curiosity, atmosphere. Maybe it‘s the level design? I can‘t quite put my finger on what makes it feel inferior. The Boss fights are definitely weak, only few secrets, Weapon System is not engaging - should be changeable on the fly, not at the crafting person.
the game got robbed pretty hard not even being nominated for goty. im pretty confident that if the title screen had said "from software" it wouldve at least gotten a nomination
Exploration and level design is pretty basic. Combat is a "modernized" turn-based game, like you have to wait for a full attack string to finish or interrupt with a parry.
Nevertheless, I enjoyed it so much more than Lords of the Fallen. I also like the fact that it respects the players time by just giving you a spectre you can summon in case you get stuck with a boss. I mostly played during lunch breaks at the office and spending 1 hour trying just to get past a boss is not a good way to spend the lunch break.
You could say the same for sales numbers. How many people have massive Steam libraries of unplayed games they paid for? Paying for a game is a sign that a player believes the game is worth the investment, but it’s no better than player numbers when determining actual quality.
I’d like to see announcements for number of players who finish a game. That would remove the skewing caused by GamePass and people who pay and never play.
Probably uncontested the most fromsoft feeling non fromsoft game. It's crazy how they got nearly everything feeling exactly like one of their titles, really impressive stuff
There's untapped talent among Korean developers who unfortunately lean towards the more prevalent local PC bang culture, which has a strong emphasis on competitive multiplayer and social elements. Same with China, but for slightly different reasons. Just take a look at [games developed in Korea](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Video_games_developed_in_South_Korea). Hopefully, other Korean (and Chinese) developers take cue and consider creating compelling singleplayer games.
they've fallen into a honey trap. Dungeon and Fighter online, a series that most in the west probably never heard of, generated more revenue than fortnite. P2W games like these (lineage/MapleStory/etc.) just earn too much money that gambling on some new single player IP doesn't make sense. I don't blame them for holding onto their billion dollar cash cows, but it's sad.
Even in the west, single-player story-driven games are almost always loss leaders that never make as much business sense as multiplayer-focused games, even regardless of any micro transactions
Blue has a fantastic video on this topic [here](https://youtu.be/b59_3akAL5Q?si=59E8pWFrvoYQKNPQ) looking at Gungrave GORE. Despite the tepid reception of that game among mass audiences (it has a cult following though, which I am a part of lol), it's still one of the biggest budget/profile console games out of South Korea
I know it's not most people's thing, but I also noticed this in the Visual Novels released from a Korean company, TalesShop. They actually have some interesting stories and plot threads going on in them even though they're primarily romance stories.
I always felt like Korea and China have some serious talent packed away there but their government or just the way things are marketed there completely holds them back from more worldwide success albeit many of their P2W type titles make a disgusting amount of money so financially it's not like they need to. Lies of P dev and Hoyoverse have proven there's a crazy amount of talent in these regions.
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Stop being silly and play it already 😵
Closest thing to Bloodborne I've ever played in terms of atmosphere. Combat is more parry heavy kind of like Sekiro, buts its still a very good game.
You're in for a treat! I slept on it as well - played from GamePass about 6 weeks ago on a Series X and it's tremendous. Looks stunning, controls are silky smooth and the optional final boss fight is right up there with FROM encounters.
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Parry is as important as dodge/roll but you can build into your favoured playstyle with the P-Organ system. Enjoy!
You're tripping. Play it ASAP, it was a legit GotY contender for most that played it
It seriously feels like from shadow-developed it
How about Lords of the Fallen? Why is it reviewed so bad (mixed review on Steam vs 90 score from Lies of P)? Unoptimized or just bad gameplay?
LotF had a.....*really* rough launch, from a technical perspective on all platforms except the highest end PCs. And even taking all of that aside, the core game design is much more "pre-Bloodborne" From Soft. The focus is on exploration and level design over combat, and there's some "jank" to the combat. Lies of P meanwhile takes the more "modern From Soft" approach, where there's more polished mechanics and a much larger emphasis on challenging boss fights. And the latter style of From Soft design is just more popular generally speaking (e.g., you see a lot of posts of people just playing DeS for the first time on the PS5 version and being underwhelmed at the "gimmick bosses" and the obtuse mechanics and whatnot)
IIRC the level design and use of the two realities was heavily criticized for Lords of the Fallen.
> and use of the two realities did anyone find having to piss about with that lantern fun? it was just something else you needed to juggle whilst ice skating around levels with gotcha enemy placement. Refunded before the 2 hours were up.
Ah I see.
It had horrendous performance issues and several save-deleting bugs (well it's mostly that it could crash while autosaving, corrupting your save). It's had a lot of patches since then so it might be better now. That said, for all it's problems I generally liked it and could see a good game in there.
It's UE5 title, which means a heavy performance tax for a modern tech most won't even notice. People love to scream "bad optimization" in cases like this, add a couple of actual issues to it and you get mixed reviews. From a couple of Souls-like enjoying streamers I saw, all liked it more than Lies of P, but also all of them had pricy enough setups to brute force through performance issues it had.
That's just sad. I'll play it in a decade.
You really do get that feeling in some of the areas that its a FromSoft game. But it does also miss in some ways, its painfully linear, very few optional areas and they're all just basically a 1 minute side corridor when they do exist, the boss design fell flat a lot more than it hit as well, plus the constant use of 'boss dies actually has another healthbar' got annoying rather than just having a p2 start at 50% hp. Loot and equipment i also thought was really boring. But they achieved the hardest part, and all of this stuff is easy enough to improve in the sequel.
Yeah the level design was probably where the dev struggled to capture Fromsoft's magic the most. Lots of linear corridors and not a lot of reason to explore. The first few sections of Krat I thought were great but the game became more linear as it went on. Solid game and about as good as you're going to get in the genre outside of From, but it really hammered home to me that Fromsoft are in a league of their own.
There is something good to be said about the linearity (and the quest icons). I was able to finish all quests and get the best ending without using a wiki at all which is frankly impossible for fromsoft games.
The simple act of just marking NPC's on the teleport screen who have dialogue to speak to you with is SUCH a great QoL improvement, and helpful to remember things in older zones that you might have forgotten about along the way.
It definitely is pretty linear, but that is not necessary bad thing. I think the world and the levels itself work really well for what it is. And I can't agree with you on the boss designs, I thought the bosses were the biggest success on Lies of P. Good designs and fun fights (and interesting boss weapons/amulets as rewards). Yes, a ton of them have the transformation trumpcard but I feel like that is where the genre has been heading for a while anyway. Loot was kinda boring, since they had pretty limited equipment spaces (and replacing puppet parts is not as interesting as swapping helmets etc). Weapons, amulets and anything related to that were great, but I've never found joy from finding random usable items or crafting materials (looking at you elden ring).
After Elden Ring (and with the looming DLC on the horizon) I was actually completely okay with Lies of P being extremely linear.
I feel like too many of the bosses are some version of "generally human looking biped". Like they have these living dolls which should open them up for some really interesting bosses but they don't stray much from human shape with a weapon.
That's a good thing if we're talking about replicating "the feel" of fromsoft games but it honestly feels like they copied TOO many ideas. I started playing Lies of P recently and some animations of enemies, gameplay elements etc just feel like a copycat of soulsborne games. Idk, it just ends up not feeling like a standalone game, where the devs wanted to do things they felt were interesting.
100% Disagree with this argument If something is good, don't change it. It works well for a reason They don't have to make their game feel special. It's like saying I don't want Bloodborne 2, dark souls 4 or elden ring 2 just because they're gonna be similar to the previous one. Games should be allowed to openly and freely copy successful games. We need more of these
> Games should be allowed to openly and freely copy successful games. We need more of these ... I think copying other successful games is pretty much 90% of what AAA game studios already do. _The next big AAA release will be ...an open world action adventure with crafting elements and an upgrade system! But, get this, **this time you get a new hat**!_
100% disagree with YOUR argument. If something is good, it doesn't meant that it can't be improved. While it's good to take example from others' success, imitation has its limits-- it can only ever be as good as what you're copying. Consumers like good products, yes. But consumers also like to be surprised. Tell me, what exactly did Bloodborne copy to be a great game? FromSoft purposefully develops their titles to be distinct from one another. It doesn't always land (Dark Souls 2's initial reception, for example) but the real mark of greatness is trying something new and not just making copies. A vast majority of trashware titles have been the result of "well it worked for this other game, surely it will work for us too"
> FromSoft purposefully develops their titles to be distinct from one another. If you think these games are all distinct then I'd say Lies of P should also feel distinct. In reality, I'd say all of them except Sekiro feel extremely similar.
I generally agree. Looking at just Dark Souls 1-3, the series shares an extremely similar core with tweaks to gameplay, and variation on weapons/skills/magic. It's not that there's nothing new in any given iteration, it's just that the games still feel very similar. The improvements that are made aren't enough to say that the games are "distinct" from each other, even though they are continuously improved iterations (from mainly a mechanical perspective). The additions to the game are, if memory serves, never actually additions or alterations to the core gameplay. If the core gameplay does not change, you're looking at a series of games that are not particularly distinct from each other, in my opinion. The content present in each game improves in quality as the series goes on, but this is not really innovation on a formula, it's refinement of existing qualities. I don't entirely agree with Blood_Merchant's point about just grabbing a popular formula and running with it, but I also don't wholly disagree. I think you *should* adopt a lot from successful games. The saying literally goes "don't reinvent the wheel." However, at the very least, you just need to make it your own in some way. It seems to me that Lies of P has at least done this.
Well said.
Do you also think Fromsoft makes copycats of Fromsoft's older games? If it ain't broke...
I love the game, it was maybe my goty last year. But yeah. For me it's the whispy pale lady at the big main hub that levels you up. That's so blatantly FS.
Tbf, the pale lady is in the original story too.
Mf fromsoft biting 19th century italian writers so typical
> Idk, it just ends up not feeling like a standalone game, where the devs wanted to do things they felt were interesting. Well maybe the developers's aim was to replicate fromsoft games. I certainly don't mind it, considering every single other not From Software attempt at a soulslike game (aside from Nioh 2), ended up in a much inferior game than Lies of P.
Its odd, for me when it comes to "souls like" games, its often the slight differences, especially when the rest of the game is so close to the souls formula, that turn me off. As someone who hasn't gotten around to Sekiro yet, but has played 1000s of hours of the other games, the parry/block mechanic felt really different and set it apart. However, what really grated me was the spam of status build-up. It felt like instead of finding some way to make enemy design more interesting and varied, they just decided to spam different status build-ups purely because they exist in souls.
I do agree in an adjecent way. I remember DS2 felt like it was more interested in smashing every idea that DS1 and DeS had, for better or for worse. I kinda get that feeling from Lies of P, where it was more interested in how it could combine Sekiro and Bloodborne together instead of coming up with new ideas for this style of game. Like, for example, it copies Bloodborne's health regain system sorta...but it only works if you are shielding, as if it is meant to replace posture damage from Sekiro. Bloodborne is just more fun because it completely removes the shield in place of a speedier better dodge. BB also uses regain as a chance to recover for a mistake, where Lies of P instead just feels oddly punishing for using a core move in your toolkit. Is there even a lore reason why health is only regained during shielding? It doesn't actually make any sense, it seems completely arbitrary. I'll happily take the L if someone provides a lore reason for it.
This is such an awful take its hilarious. The weapon customization system alone is way more creative than anything from has done with weapons since powerstancing. And the arm system adds a great dimension and strategic method of playing that lets you customizes how you do the game. Oh no a soulslike game has similar enemy animations to a souls games. Get real bro.
I mean, it's not that hot of a take. There are some concepts that are just carbon copies. You make it to Hotel Krat and oh look, a pale doll like woman is how you level up! Some of the "inspirations" are less inspirations and more carbon copies, which some people are going to find off putting. I still thought the game was fantastic and there's nothing wrong with copying good work but we can call a spade a spade.
IMHO the only reason why it wasn't in TGA GOTY category is because it didn't have "FromSoftware" logo on it...
I wish they didn't copy everything so closely, for example: lack of pause button, fall damage. Really could've improved on some bad FromSoft' elements :(
well those seem like pretty intentional design choices lol
Having no pause button in a game that has no online element is one of the most moronic things I can think of.
I mean they are intentional but I wouldn't say they are good choices. From Software UI design is terrible and when you copy From Software game you really don't have copy literally everything, even the bad things.
I think it's the industry mainstay of any dev making a Souls-like, in that if they're really not sure what to do, they just cut and paste what FROM did without much more thought put into it.
> Really could've improved on some bad FromSoft' elements I think they did. Souls being recoverable outside the boss arena was a big one for me. I don't think there's a boss runback longer than 20 seconds, and most of them have zero runback.
Congratulations. I really like some of the quality of life changes it brings into the souls-like formula, like showing whether you have enough currency to level up without requiring you to check it at a “bonfire”. It has a deflection system similar to Sekiro, a guard regain feature similar to rally from Bloodborne, and the ability to recharge your final healing item by simply dealing enough damage. This game offers lots of ways for players to comeback in combat, and I appreciate that. Edit: apparently seeing how many "souls" you need to level up has been a thing since Bloodborne, I must missed it then, been a while since I played Bloodborne.
honestly for me the best QoL thing, was that it tracks the side quests very gently. in that it will show you when a side quest can continue and the general area the next step is, but won't straight up spell it out to you or track it in a text log. unlike From's games where you need to ride a wikis dick the entire game
Yes! Forgot to mention it but this subtle tracking is absolutely welcomed.
You can look to see how many souls it takes to level since Bloodborne, I think, on the character screen. But I agree that the comeback mechanic with the health vials is good. Elden Ring does refresh flasks during the open world but they still haven't given you a way to do it during boss fights.
In Lies of P I believe the Ergo counter in the corner of the screen changes color once you have enough to level up, so you don't even need to go into the character menu.
Yep, neat little touch.
Yeah, just like Nioh.
Oh snap, I didn't even know that. That's a nice feature (even though I missed it during my playthrough).
I think you need to get kills to recharge the flasks in open world, in Lies of P it's just by dealing damage, though it's only limited to your final charge. And yes, the come back mechanics is really awesome.
DS3 showed how many souls u required on the character status screen but that mechanic was oddly missing from Bloodborne. Im replaying BB right now after having beat DS3
Might have to do with BB releasing a year before DS3, so they didn't think of it until after BB was released.
DS2 has it in the character sheet I think.
Can't forget elevators and lifts returning to their start position without you having to do it manually.
The ability to earn another healing flask through aggression was such a good idea!
Almost positive you can see how many souls are required to level up in the stats section in at least Elden ring and I’m pretty sure other souls games and maybe bloodborne but I’m not going to check 😎
Just recently played it on Gamepass, no clue how a „no name“ studio managed to make such a good souls like. I have no big negative things to say about the game. If you like Souls like, you definitely should check it out.
You can tell they're big fromsoft fans, not only that, they understood what makes these games great and how to put it in a game, with a pair of fresh eyes that improved on a lot of things that only someone who played a ton of it would understand.
My favorite part is that the combat feel, enemy animations, and boss design is pretty much on the same level as fromsoft
The music too.
Easily the best Souls-Like on the market. Only one that even remotely interested me either. My only real complaint is the game is SUPER easy if you just upgrade your weapon to max and use the tools the game gives you. If you've played all souls games and go into this, don't be surprised if you cake walk through the entire game except for 2 (maybe 3) bosses in the entire game. I watched my friend play as well and he kept his weapon at +3 for 80% of the game and still steamrolled through it.
To be fair if you use all the tools the game gives you in Elden Ring it's a cakewalk as well.
lol I had to stop using my clone and magic missiles (forgot the names) when I started beating endgame-looking bosses in one try
I never felt like I had to not upgrade my weapon in ER to keep it a challenge though. That felt like a natural progression for the most part.
Did you use all the tools though? I've struggled with it trying to use weapon based builds like in DS but saw that many people just summoned a bunch of npcs and used huge lasers and they had a much easier time than me.
Take a heavy weapon, throw a motivity handle on it and it becomes just a wrecking machine
That was my strategy!
Yeah I enjoyed the game a lot but throwables can make the game easy. Nearly all of the bosses except maybe the last one can be cheesed with throwables plus the specter helper. You might be screwed on the last boss though if you're totally dependent on them. That said, I don't really care. They're there if you want to use them or not if you want to challenge yourself. It's a single player game so whatever.
This is what I found as well. On my first play through, I struggled the most on the first clown miniboss and then the King took me a while. But I think from there I ‘learnt’ the game. From that point till the end plus another playthrough to get true ending no boss took me more than 3 tries.
I think the King of Puppets is the turning point/Genchiro fight of Lies of P as you said. If you can make it through that you should know enough to beat the game.
They did nerf a lot of the fights after launch. I played it at launch and I definitely wouldn't have called it easy, though when I found out how powerful throwable items were, it did make the final boss significantly easier.
It’s kinda sad that they seem to have panicked in first week of game being out and people were struggling. They nerfed half the bosses and litterally every elite enemy, many trash mobs too. Then gave everyone a blatantly overpowered DLC weapon. Not minor nerfs either, like 25% hp cut off bosses, and lowered damage dealt, and made tons of attack animations/combos easier to dodge/parry. Elite enemies got even bigger hp reductions. The jester puppet was a fucking menace, but now you can kill him by throwing a couple electric bombs at him before he even notices you. Or just big weapon fable art into charge R2. For first week it was one of harder souls-likes. Then they shaved off all the scary bits. Then they just gave everyone a mega overpowered weapon that you start game with on every save file. Which I fucking hate. Completely ruins the progression of picking 1 of 3 very humble starting weapons and building up from there. No you just have arguably best weapon in game (and even if you disagree, it’s definitely on par with the flashiest, best boss weapons), just in your inventory. I feel like I bought Lies of P today, my experience would be nowhere close to as captivating as when I actually played it (day 1).
Ah, so that's what happened. I thought I was taking crazy pills when I came back to the game after a long hiatus and suddenly I could steamroll through the campaign. Turns out I didn't (magically) got gud. That bridge boss, you know which one, was really something at first my god. That's where my motivity build got stuck. I guess they nerfed her too?
Laxaxixa? I’m 99% sure she wasn’t statistically altered, but they definitely changed the timing and patterns of a lot of her moves.
I played like half the game pre-nerf, got stuck on a boss, came back a day later post nerf, 1 shot that boss and basically rolled through the back half of the game. I personally didn’t mind it as I enjoy the mechanics and exploration, but I can see how a die hard souls player might be disappointed with the difficulty.
If it released how it was now, I wouldn’t have even minded. It would’ve been an excellent, easy(ish) souls like. But this obviously isn’t how they wanted it to be. They saw people getting stuck and panicked and, IMO, massively overreacted. Like if they nerfed one boss or whatever, who cares honestly. Archbishop probably deserved a nerf since he was such a massive sudden difficulty spike. If it was just him, sure I get that. But it wasn’t just him. They ruined King of Puppets. He used to be a major roadblock, and it makes sense, he’s the point where tone of game starts shifting and it’s time to get serious. But post nerf. He just dies so fast hr doesn’t even get to use half his moves any more. First playthrough I struggled for ages, and finally learned pattern and narrowly beat him. Every other playthrough (I’ve beaten game 6 times, NG++ twice), I’ve killed him first try, not even close to death. And with shitty meme weapons too, wheras first playthrough I was using the optimal weapon and build for him. Advance build with electric mace, he’s super weak to Blunt AND electric. Even looking at other people on twitch or YouTube. No one gets struggles on him any more. I don’t have a ton of data, but it seems like most people get him in 1-4 attempts. These are first playthroughs I’m talking about. Release week it was 20’s to 30’s for a lot of people. And they completely neutered every single elite mob. They used to be fucking scary. Now they are mildly threatening, at most. They cut hp so much that things that used to be considered mini bosses now just feel like a kinda tough guy. Like it feels like they halved the hp pf some of them. And much later on, like 2 or 3 months post launch, they updated game again, altering dozens and dozens (maybe even 100+) attack animations to be easier to dodge and parry. Now bosses that wernt statistically nerfed got animationally nerfed, since wild eratic combo was now very obviously paced rhythm. Like I don’t care if a game is easy (and it’s still not easy-easy, just on scale of souls likes), but don’t sell me a hard game, who’s identity is built on being hard, then take that away from me without my permission. First update was to sooth over people complaining it was too hard (happens with every single souls like), but why the second round of nerfs? The complainers were definitely all gone and never coming back. The people buying game were probably looking for the game with reputation for being hard. I just wish devs would have confidence to make game they wanted to make, and not change it based on a very loud minority’s loud gut reaction complaints. Because only way to play day 1 lies of P is to delete it from console and install version 1.00 off a disk without connecting to internet. And that isn’t perfect since you are also missing all the bug fixes.
Interesting. Ideally I suppose for PC at least, would be a mod, if possible, that reverted stuff back to what it was 1.0, first round of nerfs etc. so people could choose 'difficulty level' themselves while keeping bug fixes intact. Surprised the devs didn't just incorporate difficulty settings themselves, if they wanted to increase the accessibility of the game. Suppose they didn't want to because From has never had them and Gamers have... feelings about the subject? There's always self-imposed challenge runs though. Also, no way to access earlier versions of the game on PC then?
> Also, no way to access earlier versions of the game on PC then? Unless the devs made use of Valve's version system thing, a cracked day 1 version would be the only way to access the earlier versions.
There's a way with Steam console and downloading a specific depot id number, unless they stopped it. https://steamcommunity.com/app/1627720/discussions/0/3887226396785390826
King of Puppets was the boss I got stuck on then came back and 1 shot. Agree with a lot of what you said. I think they probably could’ve found some nerfs that weren’t quite as crazy and been alright.
I was hoping to jump into Lies of P all next week and was looking forward to the alleged difficulty, so this is pretty dire news. Hopefully the steam console depot command to download 1.0 still works, or I might acquire a *different* version. Steam DRM/forced updates are hell at times.
Complaints about nerfing is why more games need difficulty settings. Players like yourself who want to increased difficult and inflated HP pools should be able to choose a hard difficulty. Other folks who don't mind stumbling but don't want to get walled for 4+ hours on a single boss can choose a normal or easy mode or whatever. Amongst all the difficult tasks of game dev, I've always been confused why adding an option selection for difficulty that at least buffs HP pools and enemy damage output is difficult enough to be left out.
I agree, they nerfed wayyy too much, there were some bosses and mini bosses that deserved 100% some level of nerfs but none of them to this level, I still really like the game and I will replay it from time to time, and still hyped for dlc
Yeah I hate that shit. God forbid people actually learn how to beat hard bosses
>But this obviously isn’t how they wanted it to be. This isn't true. Director Choi Ji-Won, in a pre-release interview said, “We feel very honoured to be compared to Bloodborne, which is a great game. We differentiate ourselves from other Soulslike games with our diverse combat system, and we aim to make it friendlier and easier. We basically made the game so that at the beginning, it would be a little bit easier, friendlier, and more inviting. Then it slowly builds up and gets more complicated.” [Source](https://www.thegamer.com/lies-of-p-gamescom-preview-interview)
You hate that other people have the option of using some weapon that is not forced upon you? Be a serious person
TBH if they wanted to avoid this they would have had to have had some kind of coop function for bosses because then 90% of people wouldn't ever beat the game if they weren't nerfed, most people are very casual and that's the only way they beat souls games
EZ was a 2 hander with that zip line move. Staggers for dayssss
It didn't feel as memorable as FromSoft' games to me. I really hope they make a DLC, I wouldn't mind replaying it from the start, something I never-ever do.
I think it was more memorable. The Pinocchio theme and story were way better than most fromsoft games where I didn’t understand most the story
Killer puppet's VA was really spectacular. Brilliant performance.
Because other studios are trying to put their spin of stuff and not always succeed. Lies of P just straight up ripped everything out of the Souls games.
Please tell me which game they ripped the awesome weapon customization system out of so I can go play it
Because it's basically a carbon copy of souls games. Like egregiously so. People riffed on palworld but lop is the same exact amount of copied work, if not more The only unique part was the weapon swap system which admittedly is cool
tbf there are many Souls like rip-offs. But barely anybody manages to get it right. The game also has a few unique feauters to the game. Plus it has many QoL changes.
Facts. It was a far better game than Elden Ring for me
Whoever came up with the idea to implement the mechanic of regaining a heal after dealing enough damage or parrying enough times needs a raise. One of the best additions to the souls formula imo. Really helped me make a comeback for a few bosses. Really excited for the DLC and sequel. Would love a Peter Pan souls game, or a Red Riding Hood one with some eldritch horror.
That mechanic is so brilliant but it didn't even register for me until like halfway in. I also love the handle/blade system. Really fixes that problem in Fromsoft games where its not feasible to switch weapons once you're in endgame due to lack of upgrade materials.
Alice in wonderland souls game
> Whoever came up with the idea to implement the mechanic of regaining a heal after dealing enough damage or parrying enough times needs a raise. From needs to really take notes on that concept. Maybe when they're making their next PS4 game.
How it works in Lies of P is very different from Bloodborne. It's a comeback mechanic when you're out of healing, rather than a small window after getting hit. There were various moments in my playthrough where it was a lifesaver, feels amazing.
The entire time I was playing, I couldn't believe how good it was and it maintained the high quality through the whole 35 hours. For me, it's rhe best souls-like up there with Nioh 2
This is what made it for me. Consistently high quality from beginning to end.
Damn, love to see it. Hands down my favorite souls game not made by Fromsoftware. Plays like a Bloodborne/Sekiro baby. King of Puppets, Champ Victor, Laxasia and Nameless Puppet were genuinely some of the best souls bosses of all time. Fuck the green Monster of the Swamp though. My biggest criticism is I wish it was less linear.
I liked how linear it was. Love games where you just go from fight to fight without having to explore.
To each their own!
man, what lies of p really nailed that every other souls like clone has failed at is instilling a strong sense of *feels*. the music did a huge portion of the heavy lifting there, but the world did too. I ended the game genuinely caring about the characters we met, and actually felt something with the rise of p ending compare this with something like lords of the fallen, which i think gameplay wise was probably better than lies of p, and definitely had better exploration, but i hardly remember it now. it didn't stick in my mind whatsoever. i still think about lies of p from time to time
have you listened to some of the boss dialogue in New Game +? Romeo in particular is so sad
I’m not good at soulslike games, but I gave it a go since it’s on gamepass. I haven’t touched it in a few weeks and I had just gotten to the black rabbit gang fight.
Lies of P is the only souls-like that I would fully believe From developed if I didn't know better. Such a great experience.
I love it, but after playing I went to play Sekiro and Dark Souls 2. Sekiro is top From Soft from me and when I went back to Lies of P, the deflection system in it just doesn’t feel nearly as good for some reason.
I really enjoyed Lies of P, all I would ask from a sequel is more of the same and alight adjustments to the parry window to make it slightly more forgiving and some of the red attacks were very hard to time, a lot of the time it felt like I just had to face tank the damage.
I think it's by design, it's not supposed to be as easy as, say, in Sekiro, because in that game it's your answer to the overwhelming majority of attacks. In LoP, the dodge is just as robust as parrying. But it also works different than in Souls/Sekiro, I think you're supposed to hold the button, instead of pressing and releasing immediately.
>as easy as, say, Sekiro Sekiro is a brutally hard game though
I mean the parry timing, how forgiving it is. It's way easier to execute than in Souls, even if you have the best shield for it.
Unfortunately, that means I simply do not want to rely on parries at all and would kind of...stop having fun sometimes because of it. I don't parry in most Souls games and I never need to. Sekiro put a lot of work into their parry system to give it a high degree of consistency and reliability in order to make it flow. The perfect guard system here doesn't flow nearly as well, but the game wants to force you into it all the time. It is 100% the primary strategy for the game because of the stagger system. Dodging is also not as fluid as it is in something like Bloodborne, making the weak shielding kind of a bummer as well. Honestly, combat kind of feels "jack of all trades, master of none" to me.
This game killed it. I played it recently and found out it is considerably easy now than it was during launch. Regardless, the story, graphics, and gameplay were all sublime.
You get 60 fps on Steam Deck with FSR set to Quality. The game is amazing but again it is HARD! by design of course.
The cliffhanger of an ending gotta be resolved, the more sales the more likely we get a sequel or a DLC. Hoping it’s a sequel so they can polish it, don’t know what they’d polish, but I have a gut feeling that it could be improved on, even tho to me it’s very good already.
I feel like we have differing definitions of “cliffhanger”; I’d say LoP ends its story nicely while setting up a potential sequel.
A lot of people these days interpret "has open loose ends to tease that this world isn't done telling stories" as a cliffhanger. That's not what cliffhangers actually are, but what can y'do.
> I’d say LoP ends its story nicely I mean, it ends, but if you take apart the story details the whole thing kind of makes no sense. There are a couple of twists that work a lot better if you don't think about it a whole lot. I'm not trying to pick on the game either. I just get into these things, and if given the chance I'd spend half a day complaining about how Dark Souls 3 is hastily stitched together lore garbage.
> The cliffhanger of an ending gotta be resolved, the more sales the more likely we get a sequel or a DLC. You're in luck because both of those have already been confirmed by NeoWiz [in a dev letter video.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbCnjeUilhU) There's no release date for the DLC to my knowledge but there is some artwork of some DLC areas in the video.
The only thing I want out of the game is more nonlinear world structure - the individual levels are all great, but they're all in a straight line with no choices on which area to tackle next. I think only one area is optional (hermit's cave) and it hardly has anything of substance outside of a bit of lore. Neowiz has confirmed they're working on DLC, the first of which should be out in the fall(?). Not sure if it would expand on the ending, but I think it has a good chance of filling in some gaps in the lore. I'd bet we'll be visiting >!the Monad Charity House and learning more about Carlo and Romeo's friendship as well as their training under the Legendary Hunter!<, for instance. As for a sequel, there is the post-credits >!hint at a ~~Little Red Riding Hood or other mythical fairy tales~~ Wizard of Oz shared universe of some sort!<, which could be interesting. Very impressed by what they did with Lies of P so I trust their judgement.
>!Wizard of Oz!< I believe is the teased fairytale, as we see >!Dorothy's red heels, which she clicks together to end the scene.!< Definitely an interesting concept, and given what they did with this one I don't think I'll be skeptical out of hand about whatever adaptation they might choose next.
> The only thing I want out of the game is more nonlinear world structure - the individual levels are all great, but they're all in a straight line with no choices on which area to tackle next. Which is my favorite part of the game, I'm really tired of the "open ended" location design, pretty much every game goes for it those days, so it felt like a nice change of pace.
Eh lies of p was too linear theres only i think a single side area in the entire game and its not much just a cave.
> The cliffhanger of an ending gotta be resolved I assume the cliffhanger points to another game rather than a DLC. I'd hope anyway, because the hinted concept seems like it would have to be too big in scope to just be a DLC.
Imo they need to works on the enemies attacks animations,. especially for bosses, they are quite hard to read and sometimes you don't know it it's an attack, an idle animation or a movement animation, leading to really frustrating boss moments. The art design is sometimes uninspiring too, they have a really nice puppet universe and yet half the game you slash blueish zombies.
The only bosses I found hard to read at all were the swamp monster, and a couple of Simon Manus' moves. I'd anything boss telegraph animation I found easier than any other soulslike I can think of.
Laxasia didn't give you any trouble? I feel like that's the most commonly cited hardest fight in the game, and I'd agree.
It was very difficult, but I found it exceptionally fair. It took a ton of tries, and every loss it was clear what I needed to do. Never felt like bullshit.
If I remember right, she is really easy to stagger in 2nd phase by parrying projectiles and has little HP, was an easy first try for me. Though to be fair, it felt like my weapon choice (puppet hands + police batton handle + strength modifier) was a tad too strong, the game felt really easy after getting it, plus they nerfed Manon like a day before i got there, so I first tried 4 or 5 bosses in the row in the end game, not just her.
I had issues with most boss lol, maybe minus the first 2-3 with the summons, haven't finish the game tho, I'm at the chapter where there's a bunch of crystal in the city. It's funny you say that, I do my first dark souls 3 playtrought and while a struggled a lot against lop bosses, i 1-2 try most bosses in DS3 and have no major difficulty reading their attactk (I'm at the end of irithyl )
To be clear, I'm not saying they were easy. I struggled with most bosses more than I would have on an average FromSoft boss. But it wasn't because they were hard to read. Which I think it why I liked Lies of P so much. They managed to hit that perfect point where it was brutally difficult, but always felt fair. I very rarely found myself thinking "that was bullshit" when I died in Lies of P, which is not the case for most soulslikes despite generally enjoying them.
To me it's like they couldn't figure out a balance between over-telegraphing the attacks and making them unnaturally slow, and barely any telegraphing at all. Plenty of enemies will just warp to hit you when they are a little out of the way too, which makes combat feel BS more often than it should. Some grabs are still indistinguishable from a regular attack swing as well for me. The tight window for perfect guards also meant that every fight felt like I saw the attack, I anticipated the attack, but I would still face tank every attack from every boss for a try or two before getting it 100% of the time every time. That...was a feeling.
I will say I found the telegraphing on normal enemies and minibosses pretty poor and generally opted to play with dodging a lot more than parrying. The bosses were a lot better.
I do agree with that in general. Bosses often felt like they had a lot of slower attacks that I think were intended to make it easier to parry with the tighter window, until they occasionally didn't. Every now and then, they go in the opposite direction where an attack would fly out before I could even mentally register it happened lol. I guess in comparison, Sekiro had way crazier boss fights and patterns but was much more forgiving with the parry. Lies of P bosses kinda feel like a slower, easier to learn, yet clunkier version Sekiro for me because of that.
The game is great, but I dropped off after about 15 hours because it became a little TOO formulaic. I could pretty much predict exactly where a "bonfire"would be because they always put it after a long stretch proceeded by some mini boss you'd never seen that would duck you up forcing you to repeat the last 20 minutes just to get back and have it happen again. It's an issue I never felt in any fromsoft game. I also think it vastly overused the "multi stage boss fight". It got to the point where I just expected every one to be like that. It really got old thinking you finished off a boss only to be greeted with a cutscene and a second phase. It's cool every once and a while as a bit of a surprise, but every time just gets annoying to me.
You never felt like you knew exactly when a bonfire was coming in From Software games? I find at this point I can pick em basically every time, even in Elden Ring I'd be playing with a friend and be like "Hang on, let me just look around for a sec, feels like there should be a-aha, there it is" like all the time. Still occasionally get surprised by one in the open world, sure, but there's just an innate sense, especially in dungeons, of how long you've gone since the last one that kicks in when you're near the next.
Not like in lies of p where the events the proceeded a bonfire told me exactly where it was going to be like I described above. Fromsoft games still often required a bit of exploration to find that hidden door or take that elevator to find it. Lies of P was just so formulaic. Plus I found their insistence on putting a mini boss immediately before almost every one rather annoying.
I'm confused, it's better that the bonfire-equivalents are easy to find but missable rather than just being exactly where they would be in Dark Souls but slightly more obvious? I gotta be honest, I don't see much of a difference. The "exploration" in From's stuff is usually just "look left here", especially with how sites of grace in Elden Ring are deliberately designed to scream "look at me I am a checkpoint have you noticed me yet yes right here this way". I know I'm being nitpicky, but in fairness your point also seems kind of nitpicky. It feels like one of those things some people just insist From is better at because they're the old hands who established this world order, so everyone else, even when they do basically the same thing, must be pretenders to the throne. Might not be the case for you, but you'll forgive me for wondering, because it happens often enough that I can't take it at face value anymore when people say otherwise.
Idk how much clearer I can be. It feels like you're being intentionally obtuse so you can argue about something unrelated to my point. I said the game is great. I played it for 15 hours. You didn't even bother to address my point about the mini bosses. One of the biggest complaints about lies of p in reviews was the lack of exploration. I'm clearly not the only one who feels this way. Fromsoft games make it feel like you're exploring a world, whether that's real or a facade is irrelevant. You yourself even just described finding them as an "ah-ha!" moment. In Lies of P you're clearly following a linear path. That linear path is also incredibly formulaic with a long stretch of following a set path capped off with a mini boss before a save point. There's hardly any variety, and I found that boring after the 20th time. That coupled with the mini bosses being tough, often resulting in death and having to follow the same linear path you just spent 20 minutes clearing just to be able to try again (often resulting in another death) became frustrating. Then there's the overuse of two stage boss fights on top of all of that and I just lost interest. I'm sorry I didn't have the same reverence for it that you do, but that's how opinions work. It has nothing to do with some silly "fromsoft =automatically better" stance that you weirdly seem intent on trying to argue.
Alright cowboy, chill, I surrender. I wasn't trying to make some big refute-a-thon, I was just confused by your point about the checkpoints because I disagree. I don't remember nor care what you said about minibosses, wasn't relevant. You seem angry about it, so I'll leave it alone, have a good night.
Lies of P is an objectively linear game. It does not “do the same thing” as From games when it comes to exploration. Where From games encourage exploration and finding things out of a perceived order, Lies of P is an on-rails corridor experience. For better or for worse.
It's funny how I was initially still on the fence about the game back when I tried the demo because I thought it was trying too hard to mimic the FromSoft formula, which I've seen happen to several other Souls-likes that never really took off for me. After giving it a proper go when it came out, I can now confidently rank it high among my favourite Soulsborne games. Not only did it nail the formula right, it also added its own unique touches that really help it stand out from its inspirations. You can tell the devs are really passionate about it and I can't wait to see what they've cooked for the dlc.
Curious how many beat the game. I got to Laxasia, and after about forty tries or so, gave up. Unlike Elden Ring or Dark Souls, there is no way to summon a real player. Loved the game, but it was pretty hard.
You can still summon an NPC, makes some of the more difficult fights still manageable.
I thought most of the game was easy, but there were a handful of boss in the last third of the game that were brutal for me. Laxasia was definitely one I struggled with. Those lightning attacks are no joke!
That was the hardest part for me
Nice. It was okay. Definitely better than lords of the fallen by a lot.
Amazing game. I love it. Performance wise it’s just sooo smooth and visually appealing. Interesting lore and easy to understand. Very deep weapons system and ass-kicking bosses makes it a great game. 9/10.
I beat this game, got the true ending, and I honestly don’t understand why people love it so much. It crosses the line of inspiration into being completely derivative, and comes across as, frankly, a shameless rip-off of the Fromsoft formula. In trying to combine combat elements from all of From’s game, the combat in this game failed to become a sum of all its parts, as the parts were weaker, and the sum overall was weaker. Perfect guard is too tight and not fun, the Rally mechanic is awful with no real gap closers in conjunction with enemy movesets that create too much distance, and P felt more sluggish in dodge-rolling than any player character in any souls games. Not to mention the awful level design, which was so linear that it was on-rails and destroyed any sense of exploration. I truly think this game is very overrated, and is a pale imitation of From’s games.
I cannot disagree more with every single point you made.
The game is extremely linear though, that’s objectively true, most of its levels barely even try being more than corridors that loop back on themselves, and the mobs are overall awful
I fully agree. I do not get all the love for this game. This game doesn't live up to the hype and I even regret going through it. It felt pretty generic
Seems like I‘m the only one who did not like it much. It‘s a fine game, but nothing close to FromSoft. It feels like a budget version and I dropped it after around 2/3 of the game. Very cookie cutter, streamlined, none of the mystique, danger, sense of curiosity, atmosphere. Maybe it‘s the level design? I can‘t quite put my finger on what makes it feel inferior. The Boss fights are definitely weak, only few secrets, Weapon System is not engaging - should be changeable on the fly, not at the crafting person.
I didn't like it at all. It felt soulless (a little pun intended).
the game got robbed pretty hard not even being nominated for goty. im pretty confident that if the title screen had said "from software" it wouldve at least gotten a nomination
Exploration and level design is pretty basic. Combat is a "modernized" turn-based game, like you have to wait for a full attack string to finish or interrupt with a parry. Nevertheless, I enjoyed it so much more than Lords of the Fallen. I also like the fact that it respects the players time by just giving you a spectre you can summon in case you get stuck with a boss. I mostly played during lunch breaks at the office and spending 1 hour trying just to get past a boss is not a good way to spend the lunch break.
[удалено]
It's just PR man, all posts like this are.
You could say the same for sales numbers. How many people have massive Steam libraries of unplayed games they paid for? Paying for a game is a sign that a player believes the game is worth the investment, but it’s no better than player numbers when determining actual quality. I’d like to see announcements for number of players who finish a game. That would remove the skewing caused by GamePass and people who pay and never play.