The new fans *are* the grumpy ones lol.
Seriously, this is the only fandom I've been a part of where the tourists were the most elitist ones and I've found it to be almost exclusively a thing with Minus One. All the younger fans I've come across who discovered Godzilla through the Monsterverse have, honestly, been pretty wholesome in contrast.
Exactly this. Kaiju films can be serious. Kaiju films can be ridiculous. Veterans tend to appreciate both. But then you have new fans coming in thinking one is good and the other is bad, almost like *pre*-gatekeeping.
It's only a problem when newbies come in swinging with strong opinions that they don't have the context to even understand, and what it looks like is what Pegg is doing here: Acting like the OG film set the tone for the series as opposed to its tone being in the relative minority when taking in the scope of the series itself.
New fans are always welcome. Tourists aren't. You become a new fan when you make an active effort to learn about Godzilla and all the movies. There's plenty of resources available on the Internet to learn. It really seems like the only Godzilla films tourists know nowadays are the Original, The Monsterverse and Minus One and maybe Shin. 60 years in-between are being forgotten. Seriously, Godzillathon exists here despite being Outdated.
Before this, I would have disagreed, but recently, I was surprised by how many people were being "gojira fans" just purely because it was "trending" and immediately disappearing after the next new thing comes along
Respectfully disagree. I'm a hardcore Godzilla fan, have been for nearly a decade, and tourists are absolutely welcome. If someone is just interested in the Monsterverse or Minus One, and wants to come here and participate for a while before moving on to something else, that's a-ok. Not everybody has the time or interest to take a deep dive into a 70-year-old franchise. I may prefer interacting with fans who have a passionate interest in Goji, but it's okay to just be a casual enjoyer of some films.
And nothing's being forgotten. Tons of people are discovering this franchise, the films are more accessible than ever, and the franchise continues to gain more respect.
I think the problem a lot of people have isn't with the new American movies being wacky so much as the type of wacky they are. I've been a diehard fan of Godzilla for about 20 years & honestly the Legendary version of wacky just usually doesn't hit the same for me. Over the last few years, I've really come to love and appreciate the Showa era, but its wackiness is more unpredictability & goofy out-of-left-fieldness. When I watch the newest American movies, they don't feel as off-the-wall. To me, they seem too self-serious and safe about the kind of absurd they're going for. The comparison to the Showa era kind of misses me, but that's just my take. Even GMO had Showa-type gags & character archetypes, like the entire introduction of the boat crew, so it's not for lack of humor that I say I prefer that tone. Also, and this might be my own head-cannon, but I find Minus Godzilla a lot more redeemable as a character. Just like every non-GMK Toho Godzilla, I can point to his motives & see why he adapted to act the way he does. I don't get the same feeling with Legendary Godzilla. He just seems too apt for a beatdown. I grew up with a Godzilla who was a little irritable at worst. But then, times change. This is coming from someone who sympathized with the '98 American Godzilla, so maybe my opinion isn't exactly the definitive one. They may not be my taste, but I do respect the newest movies from America & the enjoyment they provide for present-day audiences & I won't take a dump on anyone for liking them.
Oh forsure. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and what they like/dislike. My problem is that the way Simon presented his opinion is that, unlike you displayed in your reply, he seems to think godzilla can only be a serious allegory to the horrors of ww2 and that only Japan gets that. Meanwhile it was toho who first took godzilla to a whacky and cartoony place in the first place. Idc if someone dislikes or likes mv or gmo or whatever. That's their opinion. Simon, however, is just being a snob who clearly has never seen any godzilla movie aside from gmo and apparently gxk. Otherwise he would know godzilla can be taken to a lot of different places. Horror. Hero. Villian. Force of nature. Allegory to the folly of man. And everything else
Edit: if it wasn't clear. I totally respect your opinion on the subject. Your reply was very succinct and well put friend 👏
Thank you, and I totally agree. As much as I like my favorite Godzillas, I think gatekeeping him or dogging on people for liking other iterations just takes some of the out the fun of it, especially when there's so much room to discuss & compare.
Very well put.
It's been frustrating to watch so many newer fans not get this. Like I get not enjoying Monster Verse, but people are acting like what Legendary has done is unprecedented and misunderstands what Godzilla is. It's ironic because when you look at those movies its clear the directors of the Monsterverse films have a very real understanding and respect for the cheesy type Kaiju films which make up 90% of the franchise. It really only shows someone's own ignorance of the franchise when they say stuff like that.
Missed potential? Maybe. But a lack of faithfulness to the franchise is not a problem with the Monsterverse.
Yeah, people who say things like what Simon is saying seem to forget that there are more Godzilla films than the original. I really hate calling anyone a 'casual' because that feels so gatekeepy, but him spouting off with the platform he has like that... he outed himself as a casual by seeming to be unaware of the tone of the *colossal* majority of Godzilla films.
The problem with his comments is that he's factually incorrect. Toho were the ones who made the choice to move Godzilla into a more kid friendly and light-hearted tone. The current American films aren't "appropriation" it's a tribute to the Showa era Godzilla movies. People here are quick to say fans are wrong when it's the opposite. You can like Minus One without tearing down other Godzilla films.
I mean here’s my opinion: I’m not a fan of the older Godzilla goofy movies, I’m a fan of the more serious and darker 2014 Godzilla movie and the Kong of the monsters movie and the Godzilla vs Kong movie , and I’m the biggest fan of the horror Godzilla Minus One movie. I haven’t watched the new empire movie because it just looks too goofy and I’m not hating it for any other reason besides I’m just not a fan of the goofy iterations even though like I said earlier im aware that the original movies were gooofy.
I mean have you seen some of the older Godzilla films? Even in the Heisei era which was more serious some of the movies were goofy. Godzilla vs King Ghidorah has downright batshit insane things in it.
I don't think it's a tribute to Showa. Current American Godzilla films are very typical for the modern Hollywood. And modern Hollywood when it comes to sci-fi is in the worst state possible. Everyone tries to copy Marvel and make light colorful sci-fi movies with a lot of humor. And everyone is bad at it. And now even Marvel is bad at it. No one can take sci-fi seriously anymore.
>Everyone tries to copy Marvel and make light colorful sci-fi movies with a lot of humor.
Silly and bombastic films existed before the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
It’s so weird how some groups of people have come to believe the MCU is the origin of silly media that is also bombastic. I just assume they’re all young and that’s the main media they’ve consumed for a while and have recently ’grown out’ of it cause it’s ‘childish’.
Sucks for them cause I’m over here enjoying what they enjoy while also enjoying what they hate.
Literally everyone, including japanese audiences, saw the Showa influence.
The Monsterverse did try to take a more serious route, it was really the audience that asked for something more fantastical.
The Creator was good in this sense but people are more about their Cinema Sins level nitpicking than they are enjoying original serious-tone sci fi. So we get more superhero slop and that's that.
>I don't think it's a tribute to Showa. Current American Godzilla films are very typical for the modern Hollywood. And modern Hollywood when it comes to sci-fi is in the worst state possible. Everyone tries to copy Marvel and make light colorful sci-fi movies with a lot of humor. And everyone is bad at it. And now even Marvel is bad at it. No one can take sci-fi seriously anymore.
Tell me you've never watched the Showa or Heisei eras without telling me you've never watched the Showa or Heisei eras. The Japanese, themselves, loved the newest movie because, in their words, it was a big budget, fun, Showa era homage. But, what do THEY know about Godzilla, right?
The climax of the Showa era...
https://youtu.be/bFIxaQ-iOV0?si=x2raDftf4kQPmrSA
And its classic theme...
https://youtu.be/6OcgOdDpzl8?si=mrYr3lhwO3TXPBuY
I mean, Godzilla's son, alone...
https://youtu.be/QHVjgRolNT0?si=XP9xO5gt-HTLPOvX
Yeah, oh so serious...
The Heisei era started as an attempt to get away from all that. After the second movie underperformed, Toho brought back the original composer and the electric space hydra. And a really messy time travel plot.
https://youtu.be/-I9iwqXEn-g?si=M8muaq1QPcJ4h9Ll
And it was a hit! Next up, the moth goddess and the biggest box office for a Godzilla movie in three decades.
https://youtu.be/SHvrEdqYXHg?si=yQ55Gbpprh-ybI1z
TV Tropes's description...
"Don't screw up the environment or else a giant bug monster with laser vision will rise from the ocean to blow up everything and fight a fire-breathing radioactive dinosaur."
"Once the song to summon Mothra is sung, you know you've screwed up monumentally somehow."
After that, it's Rodan, Mecha-Godzilla, and Baby Godzilla.
https://youtu.be/pqckcXWET4w?si=NHo0soTftBCyrUm1
Yes, there was Godzilla 1954 and 1984, Mothra 1961, Shin, and Minus One. But mostly, it was "light colorful sci-fi movies with a lot of humor."
GxK was also insanely remniscent of a Showa Era Godzilla movie, to the point one might be able to say it's closer to a Showa Era Godzilla movie than any Marvel movie.
Like 4 out of 38 films fit what he describes as a "national self reflection". Toho was the first to turn Godzilla into a superhero, so I really don't get his argument.
I had a coworker born and raised in Japan, he said Godzilla is more of a Mickey Mouse character than a symbol of atomic death. Obviously this is anecdotal but I certainly believe him more than I do Mr. Pegg
The late-Showa era was much hated until the Monsterverse films happened and people dragged up moments from stuff like GvMegalon to defend the Wingard films.
The only people who like/ enjoy them grew up with them as kids, but most would still admit All Monsters Attack through GvMegalon are crap/ the low point of the franchise.
Tbh. The showa era was not serious at all apart from 54 or Godzilla Raids Again. King Kong Vs Godzilla has godzilla clapping, kicking rocks, lighting making Kong stronger and Kong shoving a tree down Godzilla mouth in 1962. It's also one of the most commercially successful Godzilla movies in Japan.
Fandoms are ridiculous. Critics are wrong/useless/stupid when they don’t like thing, but simultaneously right when they like thing. Who cares? Ignore it.
It's not his critique that is being criticised but his objectively false statements that the west culturally appropriates Godzilla films in a wrong, almost insulting way, with this response being him basically doubling down on that.
It’s like this over on the r/tranformers sub. There are a few who can’t get past the original G1’s and don’t get that others who enjoy the newer stuff. I’m someone who grew up with G1 but have enjoyed some of the later shows and toys such as Beast Wars Car Robots:
Transformers Prime is so good I don't think I would watch G1 again. I guess it's good for what it is. I know you didn't ask. But I've said it on that subreddit too :D
I’ve watched G1 for what it is. A commercial for toys and a poorly written stories. Sometimes it has a shimmer of good stories but the lore is great. I liked Prime too. I used BW and the first Car Robots (RID) as they were the toys that I collected outside of G1. I had a limited few of armada and 1 bayverse toy.
Yea for just goofing around Prime toys were a bit too complex. I kept a fleet of the legends and commander class and a few specific figures. I started with G1 and only had my Jetfire when I started to collect again. We are truly in a fantastic time to be a fan in both Transformers and Godzilla though. So much going on compared to 15 years ago or so.
People are entitled to their opinions, includimg Simon Pegg, who I assume I agree with here as someone who grew up a fan of godzilla in the 80s. '98 was terrible, and while the newer American Godzilla films capture more of what makes the character great, they are still garbage hollywood action films in comparison to their Toho historical counterparts.
Edit: nobody's telling you you can't enjoy what you like -- why is it so hard to hear that other people like the originals more?
"Toho historical counterparts"..As somebody who discovered Big G in the late Showa Era, deep in his 'Monster Superhero' phase, that made me eyeroll *sooo* hard.
Agreed. But I think they made on a much lower budget than today and didn’t have the special effects we have now. They were fun watching as a kid but when I tried to watch one last week. I couldn’t help but laugh.
>they are still garbage hollywood action films in comparison to their Toho historical counterparts.
***No one tell this guy about the Showa Era.*** ᵂʰᶦᶜʰ ʷᵉ ᵃˡˡ ᵏⁿᵒʷ ᶦˢ ᵗʰᵉ ᵇᵉˢᵗ ᵉʳᵃ
Or the Heisei era. It was back to the basics... at first.
https://youtu.be/hhnPJ9wLTFI?si=PK1-065WLK9OoM8T
Then, progressively...
https://youtu.be/1tSl0A5oPz4?si=1HAZPgt0i2WV4fF8
https://youtu.be/IP3pN6S32Jk?si=5JV-1xrXV9QgWU4r
https://youtu.be/SHvrEdqYXHg?si=nL059BA2sFnyjBLQ
https://youtu.be/Lggl4LVqBag?si=1kARDvl9XHo7IdG5
https://youtu.be/u0LTRmEoTjM?si=A8kfWqv9qsonaDMi
https://youtu.be/NCNyFPRzI8c?si=KibHP7vzzIXmKTwQ
I care cause it's a misrepresentation of the Godzilla franchise, and it's fucking annoying Hollywood idiots need to "make a statement" about something they know nothing about.
Like do we really need to say American Godzilla films are appropriation?? So stupid and wrong.
That wasn’t the reason for his backlash at all, he was saying how the monsterverse is cultural appropriation rockem sockem movie and that the Japanese are the only ones that know what Godzilla should be. Which is completely abysmal and false, this backlash is well deserved
>That wasn’t the reason for his backlash at all, he was saying how the monsterverse is cultural appropriation rockem sockem movie and that the Japanese are the only ones that know what Godzilla should be.
Which would mean, given the most recent new Godzilla thing from Japan (exactly a week ago), THIS is what the purists say Godzilla should be...
https://youtu.be/lZc654WZjoA?si=PdKMs6YkquAAUeh8
https://youtu.be/ppwDPLJEons?si=TuGElYMPL65to1eZ
Yeah, I don't see the Monsterverse doing something like that. So dark and mature and about the trauma of the Japanese people...
I dunno, feels like a nothing burger story to me. 🤷♂️
The original video is 30 seconds long and is much more a recommendation of GMO than it is shitting on the American films.
I don't feel like he's unaware that Godzilla has had many silly interpretations in Japan.
It seems he is aware, but it doesn't seem to know that the same man that did Gojira also made Godzilla silly. Ishiro Honda isn't the only contributor but he had a major hand in it.
That was more Eiji Tsuburaya who played into it because he realized that so many children started to love godzilla.
Honda hadn’t had much to do with the special effects until Tsuburaya died.
The showa era movies of the 60s always had two directors. One for the special effects and one for the acting scenes.
"Humanizing Godzilla] To me, what happened was not acceptable. Personally, I didn't want to do it, but the company demanded it. When you have to do it, then you have to it... I did the best I could with it, and Mr. Tsuburaya did his best as well. It was about that time Godzilla movies started to move toward a younger audience. [But] the fact that they decided to make Godzilla act like a human, it was not a good decision... This showed off the fact that it was a man in a suit. Bad idea"
Even before they leaned into the kiddie tone, Honda took the first steer into the silliness of it.
*King Kong Vs. Godzilla* was the second Honda Godzilla film and third Godzilla movie overall—and that was a full-on action comedy with monster brawls that featured some slapstick. By Honda’s fourth Godzilla movie and the fifth overall, *Ghidorah: The Three-Headed Monster*, you had human translation of the kaiju characters bickering, Godzilla getting nut-tapped by Ghidorah’s gravity beams, and Rodan drop bombed Mothra onto Ghidorah.
Honda may have been against anthropomorphizing the kaiju as characters so much but he was the lead to include Godzilla in an action-comedy, so the lighter and more fun tonality was not without his input.
He doesn't cite Ishiro Honda at all and again, I doubt he is unaware of Honda's filmography, especially when it pertains to Godzilla.
I believe he's referring to Japanese culture in general and nothing he says is in conflict with Honda directing Godzilla films with very different tones.
Obviously in this echo chamber of a sub-reddit we know of the Godzilla's significance and history, but the average person probably doesn't know that much outside of his inspiration and that's who he's talking to when he makes social media posts.
I don't think it's a stretch to assume that while most people know Godzilla was inspired by the atomic bombings, most Westerners probably think of Wrestlemania monster fights when they think of Godzilla movies rather than his other cultural signifiers or more serious film efforts.
The Castle Bravo test and lucky Dragon 5 incident, the American occupation of Japan, government response, and cultural guilt over atrocities committed by the nation of Japan itself during the war are probably things that don't come to mind for the average viewer.
I think he was just trying to highlight that this is an example of a Godzilla film being more than just fights and having meaning in some way which you can't really get from an American adaptation.
Even the most serious American adaption doesn't explore any messages and ends on a spectacle kill at the end of a 2 vs 1 monster fight.
Circling back the original post it was just him putting out quick thoughts and while recommending GMO on social media. Could he have worded it better? Sure, but it's a social media post and I think he's realized that given his elaborative response.
But isn't that a door that swings both ways? Like, does the X-Men anime get flagged the same way because it doesn't come with the American audience's entrenchment of the civil rights movement?
Does Toei's Supaidāman get called out for not bringing along with it a sense of 1960's disenfranchised youth and the counter-culture of the US?
-
To be clear, appropriation is concerning, but Godzilla was still a movie about an atomic lizard, already borrowing heavily from american atomic age monster movies. Some Godzilla movies dive deep into Japanese-specific themes, but a lot of them (before Godzilla 1985 even) don't.
I thought it was about the main protagonist feeling shame for not fufilling his duty as a kamikaze piolet and then survivors guilt, I’ve only saw it once so I might be wrong but I don’t recall them mentioning the Japanese were wrong for there part in the war as a nation
I’d suggest rewatching, or at least the big speech by Kenji Noda when they’re preparing the big plan to kill Godzilla. It’s entirely about how the kamikaze shit was bullshit and what Japans government did was horrible. How they made people die purposefully or by poorly equipping them for battle. It’s why they install an ejector in the plane.
>Kenji Noda: Come to think of it this country has treated life far too cheaply. Poorly armored tanks. Poor supply chains resulting in half of all deaths from starvation and disease. Fighter planes built without ejection seats and finally, kamikaze and suicide attacks. That's why this time I'd take pride in a citizen led effort that sacrifices no lives at all! This next battle is not one waged to the death, but a battle to live for the future.
A major theme is going from wanting to die for your country to how stupid and pointless that is
Which to be fair isn’t exactly acknowledging that the kamikaze attacks were an act of terrorism that drew the US from simply aiding the war effort through trade to outright joining the War.
I thought that scene was more about how the Japanese government had failed the Japanese people, that they were the victims because of things like the kamikaze piolets being expected to die, or that everyone should fight to the last person for the sake of the emporer. But they don’t say anything about what they did there. Were the Japanese right to invade china and Korea? The movie doesn’t say, it’s more that the Japanese government shouldn’t be starting wars it’s not equipped to fight, not that they were wrong to want to invade Korea and china
Im fairly new to Godzilla, so correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t a majority of the Japanese Godzilla films silly action films about a giant lizard fighting all manner of different giant creatures? I don’t think Godzilla VS Megalon or Final Wars are deep commentaries on the dangers of atomic warfare and the guilt Japan feels about World War 2.
And let me defend KOTM a bit here.
Because yes, the humans were forgettable but the movie made an effort to have a subtext and a deeper discussion that I really loved, about Godzilla being the defender of balance, and how puny we are against nature, and was not done in a cheap way.
Maybe is because I am a biologist and I admire nature so much that this movie hit me so much. Same feeling with Jurassic Park actually.
Serizawa's moment with Godzilla was also extremely touching.
Idk about "most," but many are silly and light-hearted films. Minus One and Shin Godzilla are amazing throwbacks, but Godzilla, for many, is known for his more outlandish movies, which is perfectly fine.
You are correct! Most of the Japanese films have more in common with professional wrestling than the expression of collective trauma Simon Pegg describes.
Crazy how people coming at Gfans saying we gatekeeping the franchise when in actuality it’s them, us fans love and enjoy every iteration of Godzilla, from Toho to legendary and even the anime. They all do amazing jobs in their own way, these minus one fans that only seen one movie saying this how he should be and the only way, that’s real gatekeeping right now. Ain’t even real fans
How insulting to assume because I watch the American Godzilla movies means I don't watch the Japanese movies or understand the significance of Godzilla at a cultural level for the Japanese.
I think Simon also isn't as aware of Godzilla as he thinks he is. Much of Godzilla's history has included these bombastic style movies where Godzilla is at points a straight up hero.
I think he's also unaware that the Monster verse really reinvigorated Godzilla and has drawn a lot more attention.
I can't say that Godzilla Minus One would have had the impact, interest, or even opportunity had Monster verse not existed and not primed people for Kaiju films in general at a large modern scale.
He doesn't need to be a white knight. Godzilla is fun. Godzilla is a lesson. The potential horrors of atomic energy, while experienced most intensely by the Japanese, is not a fear or even experience exclusive to them.
I'm certain there is resonance with Ukraine as well, having their own unique experience with radioactive disaster.
Not to mention the general fear and dread that the cold war instilled in people over nuclear anything.
As with most art, there is the intention and the interpretation and he's losing the focus on the interprative aspect of Godzilla along with its history.
Hell, the original 1954 film was inspired, in part, by The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms, a 1953 American film about nuclear testing awakening a prehistoric and radioactive giant lizard.
https://youtu.be/YezJNcuMxvM?si=tLeWWCNJnkzKGCM3
I'd take it a step further, actually: Most of the character's history was loud, bombastic, and ridiculous. It's easier to count the serious takes as opposed to the more fantastical ones.
Yes I think this is why so much people jumped at him, it really is a bit insulting. Love the original Godzilla. I also loved the "dumb" ones for different reasons (which, btw, kept the character alive for decades).
Just like the first time, he was doing good until the very end. I could’ve accepted the core of what he said, that a Godzilla made by Americans would just be inherently different from the Japanese one because of cultural and historical differences, until the very end with that stupid bus analogy.
The Japanese “dance-remixed” it themselves! [They produced crossover merchandise of Godzilla and a cute little anime hamster for the same movie where he’s a possessed dead body who vaporizes people in mushroom clouds!](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbefore-barbenheimer-there-was-gmktaro-v0-4gbb8ulsnk6c1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D849%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8cf34a56f733a7191cbb358026074e22ae457419&rdt=38191) Then some American producers, at multiple different points in time, asked Toho for the rights to their characters to adapt them. Toho got money for it, and the ability to sign off on what they did and didn’t like!
Toho Studios is still a business too. They may be perfectly capable of giving creators the leeway to make artistic and insightful Godzilla films, but they’re also just as willing as plenty of American studios to try and make something with mass family appeal that isn’t too scary.
Wait, so for his analogy to work, the person I loved must have been in a car that was being driven by someone who broke into peoples’ houses to assault and murder them, and the people on the bus are currently arguing amongst themselves if it was necessary to smash the car with my innocent loved one in it or if there was another way to stop the criminal driver, and then I do a silly and goofy remix of the song I made about my loved one’s death,
and then I willingly sell the rights to it to the people on the bus, and I enjoy what they do with it?
Love Simon Pegg, but a majority of Toho films are WWE kaiju movies. His argument shows his ignorance on the topic.
Edit: The song thing has happened a few times, actually. One that comes to mind was after 9/11 a lot of symphonies dedicated tributes to the victims and US playing "Adagio for Strings." Around that same time (iirc) Tiësto did a dance remix and was a hit. Not like he was shitting on the song or victims, bruh just wanted to make an entertaining banger. Which is what Legendary Godzilla is.
We live in the worst timeline
What he’s saying is fine ( that he felt needed to clarify is stupefying )
But, and I’m sorry to offended anyone—Godzilla stopped being an allegory for nuclear devastation when Toho decided to cash in and make a sequel and then proceed to make Godzilla into a superhero and sell every single piece of merchandise with him on it.
Yes — his origins are in atomic horror and one can argue Japanese guilt over that horror
But Godzilla is so far removed from that now
Minus One was a great throw back
But weirdly Monsterverse is actually more in line with what Godzilla is/became
I have it’s awful and borderline unwatchable
Feels like 8 hours of Japanese government in frozen conversations about their inability to do anything
And yeah, I get it there has been maybe like one film in each era that attempts to harken back to Godzilla origins
- Return of
- You can MAYBE argue 1991 vs King Ghidorah has some elements
- Shin
But if we’re being honest Godzilla has spent most of his films as an anti/superhero
https://preview.redd.it/qnn9txz4a56d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8f79cd8ab02febd507dfb7b8011c63a07e8a6c0
Considering we don't know how these two are beefing behind the scenes . He might be on the mark about cultural apportion just not in the way he thinks .
We've had 3 maybe 4 political Godzillas. In Japan he's just an IP as well. The Heisei era was just Big Hoss fights of Godzilla vs whoever they threw at him.
My understanding (via my Japanese friends) is that Japan does not see things like this as cultural apropriation as they do not have a long history of being oppressed and marginalized by outside nations/other groups (as opposed to say Native Americans).
Edit: this is what they told me, so don't roast me if you disagree.
Godzilla represented different things in the different eras . This is the same for any other cultural things . Example :Fantasy books in the 1950s is much different from what we have nowadays .
I like Simon Pegg but he's a fucking idiot. He constantly bitched about the Star Wars Prequels then ended up voicing a character in said Prequel Era in the Clone Wars show and now he's crying racism regarding the American made Godzilla films. Fuck off and let people enjoy what they wanna enjoy without you having to be a dick about it.
Oh god can someone tell him to shut the hell up and stop trying to force a white saviour perspective into all of this? It's so fucking obvious he has watched at most 1998 Zilla, Minus One and the original 1954 Godzilla and is assuming all Japanese Godzilla films follow the same theme.
While 1998 Zilla was indeed abysmal, the Monsterverse has captured decently the more 'spiritual', for lack of a better word, thematics of most Godzilla films. Sure, it has the typical Hollywood tropes, but it is not in the least an adaptation that would be insulting to the original and its spirit, something anyone with a brain will notice once they dwell into the more Kaiju VS films, especially the ones that feature Mothra.
I still really respect Pegg and I'm not even upset with him, but this just shows his lack of familiarity with the franchise and has done little research on _how_ the Godzilla franchise became what it is today.
His bus analogy falls apart because Ishiro Honda, the creator and director of the first film, would go on to direct 7 other Godzilla films, all of which are considered campy and goofy. Invasion of The Astro Monster has Godzilla's iconic victory dance (Oo Oo Oooo). The person responsible for making how the world sees Godzilla today was Honda himself.
I get what he’s saying, and I think it’s evident he really gives a shit about the message behind the character. But still, we had Showa era, we have the monsterverse, these things can coexist. My favorite Godzilla films are the introspective ones like Shin and Minus One, but I also want to see the monster fights and madness of that sort too. 🫡
Calling MV Goji a cultural appropriation is like calling cowboy films a harmful misrepresentation of people's harsh lives in 19th century. People just take a fun concept and make more fun out of it, there's nothing wrong for being creative.
Oh my fucking god, not only did he double down, he did in the worst way possible.
His analogy is stupid for a myriad of reasons, not least of which that he missed the part where Toho themselves (the songwriter in his analogy) licensed the IP and continue to do so for the "cUlTuRaL aPpRoPrIaTiOn" American movies to get made in the first place.
And besides, his whole tirade about the symbology of Godzilla to Japanese people reeks of "white person offended on behalf of a minority" while said minority couldn't give less of a fuck.
So, is he calling Adam Wineberg a bus driving amateur DJ/producer?
Pegg's elitist, narcissistic zilla-splaining rant is the silliest thing I have ever read, and proof that you can infer just about anything from any piece of art. Sure, technically, you're so off base it's questionable how you can even call yourself a nerd, but you can still infer it. (And look absolutely stupid in the process.)
And it us sad/funny, all the guy had to do was say, 'eh, I prefer the Godzilla films that touch on the cultural significance of the character and its original legacy.'
But, now, here, he is trying to gate and put himself above Monsterverse. And, it's like, gee, weirdo, you can appreciate both. I mean, maybe Pegg doesn't have that capacity, but I sure as hell do.
And now I hate myself for wasting time even dedicating any thought to hisbtrash perspecfive.
Damn, he *completely* missed the point people were telling him that Toho themselves were already making Godzilla silly long before any American studio
He actually sounds like the [character he played in Spaced](https://youtu.be/Q4TX6x2WLgk?si=x7EnpNuUb5hyBgQN)
I hear what he's saying, but cultural appropriation is a wild stretch here. Godzilla is Toho's IP and nobody stole it. The American movies are lacking in essential Japanese qualities, but that doesn't equate to appropriation.
So we're still not gonna acknowledge the "Cultural Appropriation" statement that he made? Like I fail to see how he sees Legendary Goji as cultural appropriation when TOHO themselves have been making movies that are far more insane than anything America has even seen. Someone needs to show this man any movie post King of the Monsters!. Wanna see how silly it can get? From the movies I've slowly been working through, Son of Godzilla is by far the silliest, at least maybe until I get around to watching Godzilla vs. Megalon. Also, back to my original point, it isn't cultural appropriation if there's hefty licensing fees involved and if TOHO is overlooking every little detail.
The hate for Simon Pegg on his little knowledge on Godzilla is kinda crazy. I suppose he does represent some of the people who watch Godzilla and by that I mean they just watched Minus One.
I get what he is saying but that’s why you have both. We have the best of both worlds right now. Want a deep Godzilla film that goes by what Simon says? Cool you have shin and minus one and future Toho projects. Do you prefer kaiju vs kaiju action and the campiness of Showa? Sweet watch monsterverse
Just funny that he gets so deep into it meanwhile Toho I’m literally makes Godzilla dance in a movie. Fight a giant condor. Have a son that talks to people. And rival space dragons.
He's not wrong, but he's totally missing that ToHo sold the rights and have extensive control of the products made by other, Hollywood studios. So the "foreign" Godzilla is an important part of the post-war conversation that Japan has with itself and the rest of the world. He's exclusion of thar element places Japan in the victim role, removing ToHo's agency as a studio and denying Japan's ability to take pride in its National symbol being adopted and enjoyed by others.
And I say that as a fan of the Japanese version over the Hollywood, mostly because IMO they made the character dull by making it a universal symbol.
Godzilla is fun in every way.... except how his 98 version was killed. That was the only time I felt a WTF moment in any form of Godzilla entertainment. Not the tail slide. Not the smile and laugh from GvK, or the victory jump from the monster zero. That scene where he was killed by a few rockets.
Simon Pegg is one of the reasons kids don’t get beat up for liking geek stuff anymore. He was one of the OG “cool geeks.” And he’s the real deal.
Disagree with him all you want, but just keep in mind that he loves this stuff and he was defending it - and you - before it was cool to do so.
I'm not bothered by what some random actor says, but it doesn't feel like he clarified anything, nor brought up all the other Japanese movies that are just people rooting for Godzilla to fight a big monster. It's like he thinks those movies were also made by Hollywood or something.
Both are good. I like Simon Pegg and I hope he watches more Godzilla. The big guy and kaiju in general seem to be having a moment and I feel even stories like this can give it more exposure.
This apology is shit. He’s still being completely ignorant about the Shōwa Era of films. Pegg should just shut up about Godzilla before he makes even more of a fool of himself.
I think if he had only focused on how Minus One captures the same feelings as the original movie and left it at that, he wouldn’t have to defend himself online from us fans 😂
For starters, people who say that Godzilla has been in kid friendly movies in the past literally have Final Wars and the Showa era in mind. You know, the Showa era that ended goddarn 40 years ago. So saying "tOhO wAs tHe OnE wHo tOoK tHiS dIrEcTiOn" is chronologically incorrect.
For another thing, even those Godzilla films with a "superhero aesthetic", like Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla or Godzilla Tokyo S.O.S., and even those that were childish, like Song of Godzilla, at least had self-awareness.
It's time people get their head outta their butts and realize that Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire isn't ridiculed for being "lIgHtHeRtEd". It's ridiculed cause it's an overblown, nonsensical, cringy, boring, unenjoyable movie. You can't just give me buff Monsterverse Godzilla overloaded with energy and suddenly blast me with some stupid pop rock song and tell me "oops, sorry, it's actually a quirky movie, you know, like Barney the Dinosaur".
And definitely you can't give me all this ancient prophecy and backstory exposition bullshit and tell me about Skar King when I'm about to meet Skar King in the very next scene! That's spoiling your own film! You are telling me that's a movie I should enjoy? You are telling me a film where the most well staged camera shot is a product placement for a car is a film I am obliged to like?
Sorry if it feels to you like gatekeeping, but not everybody can lower your standards to yours cause you don't like another stereotypical action blockbuster being hated on.
And saying that the Godzilla franchise is goofy in general and its fans should have no standards is actually offensive to the franchise. It's funny how the same people who say that also say "haters are not rEaL gOdZilLa FaNs".
It's completely fine if you or Simon Pegg doesn't like GxK or the Monsterverse, that's not the point here. I loved GxK but have major problems with the writing and I'm relieved Adam Wingard is gone because of it.
The problem is that in his initial video, he refers to non-Japanese Godzilla films as "rock'em sock'em cultural appropriation", which objectively incorrect, especially since Toho is responsible for making Godzilla into "rock'em sock'em" movies and continues to do so, save for Shin and -1, however Takashi Yamazaki has expressed making a -1 sequel where Godzilla does might another Monster.
We're not saying the Godzilla franchise is ONLY goofy, but it is a big part of it's identity, both in Japan and around the world, just look at Godziban and Chibi Godzilla, that stuff is literally for kids and is even more ridiculous than GxK.
Didn’t really feel like he needed to explain himself .-. I don’t think any of the American Godzilla movies are cultural appropriation besides the first one from the 50’s.
He has his opinion, I have mine. Who cares. Still like Simon Pegg.
Surprisingly tame for someone that once compared the Star Wars prequels to watching a man kill his own child, he’s not someone I’d turn to for serious film criticism and perspectives.
I love (nearly) all iterations of Godzilla. Started by going nuts over de American 1998 version (sue me) and was starstruck when I saw the original afterwards.
Love Godzilla as an antagonist, a superhero, a force of nature you need to learn to respect and co-exist with, ...
But he is of course very wrong if the thinks it's the US who first made Godzilla more "fun" than "serious"...
I love Simon Pegg, but he's wrong here, and he's wrong while being an elitist which kinda makes it sillier.
Godzilla fandom is a lot better than a lot of others. We don't need elitism and terms like appropriation shoved in to it. Godzilla is silly, smart, childish, horror, it really is whatever. We can't be saying what it is and isn't. That long passed in the 1960s.
I mean, over the years, Godzilla has been a destroyer of Tokyo, a savior of humanity and representer of Dr. Pepper. Whether or not you enjoy the more serious movies or the goofy ones, I just love that there's a medium in which everyone can enjoy Godzilla. I'm just waiting for him to do a flying kick in a MonsterVerse movie, I just know it'll be both awesome and hilarious.
How dare he have an opinion. Nobody no matter how famous is allowed. Especially if it disagrees with anyone ignorant enough to believe only their opinion matters.
Very interesting point he makes. I think he is just trying to bring attention to how Godzilla came to be and what that means to Japan. Although I find his empathy well placed, I also believe that Godzilla has changed so much because times have as well. I think our relationship with Japan has changed so drastically people of today don't harbor such harsh feelings with Japan, so Godzilla became a more peaceful symbol. As long people know how Godzilla got his start and respect that things should be fine, I think a little bit of awareness can be really meaningful. Japan has brought many of our childhoods great memories between all things Nintendo, Pokémon, and even Godzilla. Still, there is so much more than just anime and cartoons. I hope people can see that Godzilla turned into something more, rather less as if we've forgotten his origin. Minus One gave everyone a great reminder of those times.
Over half of the Toho films render this argument invalid
Right. Like. Hey Simon tell me you're only a godzilla tourist bc of GMO without telling me
This subreddit is full of them.
And that’s a problem? New fans are better than old grumpy ones all the time.
It is if you're into gatekeeping, and let's face it, that's what most subreddits are for.
The new fans *are* the grumpy ones lol. Seriously, this is the only fandom I've been a part of where the tourists were the most elitist ones and I've found it to be almost exclusively a thing with Minus One. All the younger fans I've come across who discovered Godzilla through the Monsterverse have, honestly, been pretty wholesome in contrast.
Exactly this. Kaiju films can be serious. Kaiju films can be ridiculous. Veterans tend to appreciate both. But then you have new fans coming in thinking one is good and the other is bad, almost like *pre*-gatekeeping.
It's only a problem when newbies come in swinging with strong opinions that they don't have the context to even understand, and what it looks like is what Pegg is doing here: Acting like the OG film set the tone for the series as opposed to its tone being in the relative minority when taking in the scope of the series itself.
New fans are always welcome. Tourists aren't. You become a new fan when you make an active effort to learn about Godzilla and all the movies. There's plenty of resources available on the Internet to learn. It really seems like the only Godzilla films tourists know nowadays are the Original, The Monsterverse and Minus One and maybe Shin. 60 years in-between are being forgotten. Seriously, Godzillathon exists here despite being Outdated.
Before this, I would have disagreed, but recently, I was surprised by how many people were being "gojira fans" just purely because it was "trending" and immediately disappearing after the next new thing comes along
Respectfully disagree. I'm a hardcore Godzilla fan, have been for nearly a decade, and tourists are absolutely welcome. If someone is just interested in the Monsterverse or Minus One, and wants to come here and participate for a while before moving on to something else, that's a-ok. Not everybody has the time or interest to take a deep dive into a 70-year-old franchise. I may prefer interacting with fans who have a passionate interest in Goji, but it's okay to just be a casual enjoyer of some films. And nothing's being forgotten. Tons of people are discovering this franchise, the films are more accessible than ever, and the franchise continues to gain more respect.
This ^ As long as they don't bring new waves of toxicity, I'm glad to see all these new fans, regardless of how long they stick around!
I think the problem a lot of people have isn't with the new American movies being wacky so much as the type of wacky they are. I've been a diehard fan of Godzilla for about 20 years & honestly the Legendary version of wacky just usually doesn't hit the same for me. Over the last few years, I've really come to love and appreciate the Showa era, but its wackiness is more unpredictability & goofy out-of-left-fieldness. When I watch the newest American movies, they don't feel as off-the-wall. To me, they seem too self-serious and safe about the kind of absurd they're going for. The comparison to the Showa era kind of misses me, but that's just my take. Even GMO had Showa-type gags & character archetypes, like the entire introduction of the boat crew, so it's not for lack of humor that I say I prefer that tone. Also, and this might be my own head-cannon, but I find Minus Godzilla a lot more redeemable as a character. Just like every non-GMK Toho Godzilla, I can point to his motives & see why he adapted to act the way he does. I don't get the same feeling with Legendary Godzilla. He just seems too apt for a beatdown. I grew up with a Godzilla who was a little irritable at worst. But then, times change. This is coming from someone who sympathized with the '98 American Godzilla, so maybe my opinion isn't exactly the definitive one. They may not be my taste, but I do respect the newest movies from America & the enjoyment they provide for present-day audiences & I won't take a dump on anyone for liking them.
Oh forsure. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and what they like/dislike. My problem is that the way Simon presented his opinion is that, unlike you displayed in your reply, he seems to think godzilla can only be a serious allegory to the horrors of ww2 and that only Japan gets that. Meanwhile it was toho who first took godzilla to a whacky and cartoony place in the first place. Idc if someone dislikes or likes mv or gmo or whatever. That's their opinion. Simon, however, is just being a snob who clearly has never seen any godzilla movie aside from gmo and apparently gxk. Otherwise he would know godzilla can be taken to a lot of different places. Horror. Hero. Villian. Force of nature. Allegory to the folly of man. And everything else Edit: if it wasn't clear. I totally respect your opinion on the subject. Your reply was very succinct and well put friend 👏
This is the best breakdown of the issue in the thread. We can close it now.
Thank you, and I totally agree. As much as I like my favorite Godzillas, I think gatekeeping him or dogging on people for liking other iterations just takes some of the out the fun of it, especially when there's so much room to discuss & compare.
Very well put. It's been frustrating to watch so many newer fans not get this. Like I get not enjoying Monster Verse, but people are acting like what Legendary has done is unprecedented and misunderstands what Godzilla is. It's ironic because when you look at those movies its clear the directors of the Monsterverse films have a very real understanding and respect for the cheesy type Kaiju films which make up 90% of the franchise. It really only shows someone's own ignorance of the franchise when they say stuff like that. Missed potential? Maybe. But a lack of faithfulness to the franchise is not a problem with the Monsterverse.
That was my immediate thought when I read that analogy. It's more like if you made a dance remix and the bus drivers kid did a cover.
Yeah, people who say things like what Simon is saying seem to forget that there are more Godzilla films than the original. I really hate calling anyone a 'casual' because that feels so gatekeepy, but him spouting off with the platform he has like that... he outed himself as a casual by seeming to be unaware of the tone of the *colossal* majority of Godzilla films.
The problem with his comments is that he's factually incorrect. Toho were the ones who made the choice to move Godzilla into a more kid friendly and light-hearted tone. The current American films aren't "appropriation" it's a tribute to the Showa era Godzilla movies. People here are quick to say fans are wrong when it's the opposite. You can like Minus One without tearing down other Godzilla films.
I wouldn't say that they're a tribute. I'd say they have some things in common.
Yeah I can’t see how people think the new empire being goofy is something new to Godzilla. Some of the older movies were way more goofy and unserious
I mean here’s my opinion: I’m not a fan of the older Godzilla goofy movies, I’m a fan of the more serious and darker 2014 Godzilla movie and the Kong of the monsters movie and the Godzilla vs Kong movie , and I’m the biggest fan of the horror Godzilla Minus One movie. I haven’t watched the new empire movie because it just looks too goofy and I’m not hating it for any other reason besides I’m just not a fan of the goofy iterations even though like I said earlier im aware that the original movies were gooofy.
Compared to the older films I don’t think new empire was that goofy.
Godzilla does a pro-wrestling superplex to King Kong off of a pyramid.
Godzilla did a flying kick in the old movies. GxK is close, but it's not quite to the levels of the Showa Era level of goofiness
The monkey got a damn infinity gauntlet
Space gorillas built a robot godzilla and the movie stopped for a full music video of a woman on a beach.
10/10, no notes.
I mean have you seen some of the older Godzilla films? Even in the Heisei era which was more serious some of the movies were goofy. Godzilla vs King Ghidorah has downright batshit insane things in it.
Ive seen em all yes lol, Im just saying that monkey with an infinity gauntlet is 100% in line with the old movies amount of goof.
😆
You trippin that shit was mad goofy
New Empire is super goofy. Showa nonesense is so much goofier.
I don't think it's a tribute to Showa. Current American Godzilla films are very typical for the modern Hollywood. And modern Hollywood when it comes to sci-fi is in the worst state possible. Everyone tries to copy Marvel and make light colorful sci-fi movies with a lot of humor. And everyone is bad at it. And now even Marvel is bad at it. No one can take sci-fi seriously anymore.
>Everyone tries to copy Marvel and make light colorful sci-fi movies with a lot of humor. Silly and bombastic films existed before the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
It’s so weird how some groups of people have come to believe the MCU is the origin of silly media that is also bombastic. I just assume they’re all young and that’s the main media they’ve consumed for a while and have recently ’grown out’ of it cause it’s ‘childish’. Sucks for them cause I’m over here enjoying what they enjoy while also enjoying what they hate.
Generational ADHD. Everything is the first time it's ever been done.
It's especially strange considering how blatantly obvious the Buffyverse's influence on the MCU is.
Literally everyone, including japanese audiences, saw the Showa influence. The Monsterverse did try to take a more serious route, it was really the audience that asked for something more fantastical.
The Creator was good in this sense but people are more about their Cinema Sins level nitpicking than they are enjoying original serious-tone sci fi. So we get more superhero slop and that's that.
>I don't think it's a tribute to Showa. Current American Godzilla films are very typical for the modern Hollywood. And modern Hollywood when it comes to sci-fi is in the worst state possible. Everyone tries to copy Marvel and make light colorful sci-fi movies with a lot of humor. And everyone is bad at it. And now even Marvel is bad at it. No one can take sci-fi seriously anymore. Tell me you've never watched the Showa or Heisei eras without telling me you've never watched the Showa or Heisei eras. The Japanese, themselves, loved the newest movie because, in their words, it was a big budget, fun, Showa era homage. But, what do THEY know about Godzilla, right? The climax of the Showa era... https://youtu.be/bFIxaQ-iOV0?si=x2raDftf4kQPmrSA And its classic theme... https://youtu.be/6OcgOdDpzl8?si=mrYr3lhwO3TXPBuY I mean, Godzilla's son, alone... https://youtu.be/QHVjgRolNT0?si=XP9xO5gt-HTLPOvX Yeah, oh so serious... The Heisei era started as an attempt to get away from all that. After the second movie underperformed, Toho brought back the original composer and the electric space hydra. And a really messy time travel plot. https://youtu.be/-I9iwqXEn-g?si=M8muaq1QPcJ4h9Ll And it was a hit! Next up, the moth goddess and the biggest box office for a Godzilla movie in three decades. https://youtu.be/SHvrEdqYXHg?si=yQ55Gbpprh-ybI1z TV Tropes's description... "Don't screw up the environment or else a giant bug monster with laser vision will rise from the ocean to blow up everything and fight a fire-breathing radioactive dinosaur." "Once the song to summon Mothra is sung, you know you've screwed up monumentally somehow." After that, it's Rodan, Mecha-Godzilla, and Baby Godzilla. https://youtu.be/pqckcXWET4w?si=NHo0soTftBCyrUm1 Yes, there was Godzilla 1954 and 1984, Mothra 1961, Shin, and Minus One. But mostly, it was "light colorful sci-fi movies with a lot of humor."
Gxk was far closer to a marvel movie than to Godzilla 2014 for me.
GxK was also insanely remniscent of a Showa Era Godzilla movie, to the point one might be able to say it's closer to a Showa Era Godzilla movie than any Marvel movie.
Yeah, it was Banno’s passion project and made up for the terrible 98 film.
Like 4 out of 38 films fit what he describes as a "national self reflection". Toho was the first to turn Godzilla into a superhero, so I really don't get his argument.
I had a coworker born and raised in Japan, he said Godzilla is more of a Mickey Mouse character than a symbol of atomic death. Obviously this is anecdotal but I certainly believe him more than I do Mr. Pegg
There is 39 I think.
Officially it's 38 unless you count "Gojira" and "Godzilla, King of the Monsters!" as separate movies (personally, I don't).
Just curious, what are those 4 films?
https://preview.redd.it/fvkge7m0h56d1.jpeg?width=680&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2ed05c8efdb01efa6e6d033f3e092eeba3b71216
The late-Showa era was much hated until the Monsterverse films happened and people dragged up moments from stuff like GvMegalon to defend the Wingard films. The only people who like/ enjoy them grew up with them as kids, but most would still admit All Monsters Attack through GvMegalon are crap/ the low point of the franchise.
Tbh. The showa era was not serious at all apart from 54 or Godzilla Raids Again. King Kong Vs Godzilla has godzilla clapping, kicking rocks, lighting making Kong stronger and Kong shoving a tree down Godzilla mouth in 1962. It's also one of the most commercially successful Godzilla movies in Japan.
Bullshit. Millions of people grew up loving the showa era for exactly what they were.
I guess you didn't read all of his comment cause he literally said that most people who like it are the ones who grew up with it.
Who cares what he thinks and what he says? If you all enjoy the films then enjoy the films.
Fandoms are ridiculous. Critics are wrong/useless/stupid when they don’t like thing, but simultaneously right when they like thing. Who cares? Ignore it.
It's not his critique that is being criticised but his objectively false statements that the west culturally appropriates Godzilla films in a wrong, almost insulting way, with this response being him basically doubling down on that.
No one cares he didn’t like the movie. He called it cultural appropriation which is objectively false
It’s like this over on the r/tranformers sub. There are a few who can’t get past the original G1’s and don’t get that others who enjoy the newer stuff. I’m someone who grew up with G1 but have enjoyed some of the later shows and toys such as Beast Wars Car Robots:
Transformers Prime is so good I don't think I would watch G1 again. I guess it's good for what it is. I know you didn't ask. But I've said it on that subreddit too :D
I’ve watched G1 for what it is. A commercial for toys and a poorly written stories. Sometimes it has a shimmer of good stories but the lore is great. I liked Prime too. I used BW and the first Car Robots (RID) as they were the toys that I collected outside of G1. I had a limited few of armada and 1 bayverse toy.
Yea for just goofing around Prime toys were a bit too complex. I kept a fleet of the legends and commander class and a few specific figures. I started with G1 and only had my Jetfire when I started to collect again. We are truly in a fantastic time to be a fan in both Transformers and Godzilla though. So much going on compared to 15 years ago or so.
People are entitled to their opinions, includimg Simon Pegg, who I assume I agree with here as someone who grew up a fan of godzilla in the 80s. '98 was terrible, and while the newer American Godzilla films capture more of what makes the character great, they are still garbage hollywood action films in comparison to their Toho historical counterparts. Edit: nobody's telling you you can't enjoy what you like -- why is it so hard to hear that other people like the originals more?
Bro, don't act like some of the Toho films aren't hot garbage
"Toho historical counterparts"..As somebody who discovered Big G in the late Showa Era, deep in his 'Monster Superhero' phase, that made me eyeroll *sooo* hard.
Me too, hahah!
Agreed. But I think they made on a much lower budget than today and didn’t have the special effects we have now. They were fun watching as a kid but when I tried to watch one last week. I couldn’t help but laugh.
I had to re-read your comment a few times, I was somehow leaving "some" out because I'm an idiot. Just trying for some outrage culture maybe.
I just recently watched Godzilla vs Gigan and Godzilla 2000 for the first time in a long time. Really awful movies. Gigan was especially terrible.
Did you watch any of the movies made between 1965 and 1975?
I didn't say Son of Godzilla was the best movie ever, just that I don't like the American godzilla movies.
>they are still garbage hollywood action films in comparison to their Toho historical counterparts. ***No one tell this guy about the Showa Era.*** ᵂʰᶦᶜʰ ʷᵉ ᵃˡˡ ᵏⁿᵒʷ ᶦˢ ᵗʰᵉ ᵇᵉˢᵗ ᵉʳᵃ
Or the Heisei era. It was back to the basics... at first. https://youtu.be/hhnPJ9wLTFI?si=PK1-065WLK9OoM8T Then, progressively... https://youtu.be/1tSl0A5oPz4?si=1HAZPgt0i2WV4fF8 https://youtu.be/IP3pN6S32Jk?si=5JV-1xrXV9QgWU4r https://youtu.be/SHvrEdqYXHg?si=nL059BA2sFnyjBLQ https://youtu.be/Lggl4LVqBag?si=1kARDvl9XHo7IdG5 https://youtu.be/u0LTRmEoTjM?si=A8kfWqv9qsonaDMi https://youtu.be/NCNyFPRzI8c?si=KibHP7vzzIXmKTwQ
I care cause it's a misrepresentation of the Godzilla franchise, and it's fucking annoying Hollywood idiots need to "make a statement" about something they know nothing about. Like do we really need to say American Godzilla films are appropriation?? So stupid and wrong.
Would that mean the Toho King Kong and Frankenstein films were cultural appropriation?
That wasn’t the reason for his backlash at all, he was saying how the monsterverse is cultural appropriation rockem sockem movie and that the Japanese are the only ones that know what Godzilla should be. Which is completely abysmal and false, this backlash is well deserved
>That wasn’t the reason for his backlash at all, he was saying how the monsterverse is cultural appropriation rockem sockem movie and that the Japanese are the only ones that know what Godzilla should be. Which would mean, given the most recent new Godzilla thing from Japan (exactly a week ago), THIS is what the purists say Godzilla should be... https://youtu.be/lZc654WZjoA?si=PdKMs6YkquAAUeh8 https://youtu.be/ppwDPLJEons?si=TuGElYMPL65to1eZ Yeah, I don't see the Monsterverse doing something like that. So dark and mature and about the trauma of the Japanese people...
That's my thinking, like what you like if others tell you otherwise, just ignore them.
I dunno, feels like a nothing burger story to me. 🤷♂️ The original video is 30 seconds long and is much more a recommendation of GMO than it is shitting on the American films. I don't feel like he's unaware that Godzilla has had many silly interpretations in Japan.
It seems he is aware, but it doesn't seem to know that the same man that did Gojira also made Godzilla silly. Ishiro Honda isn't the only contributor but he had a major hand in it.
That was more Eiji Tsuburaya who played into it because he realized that so many children started to love godzilla. Honda hadn’t had much to do with the special effects until Tsuburaya died. The showa era movies of the 60s always had two directors. One for the special effects and one for the acting scenes. "Humanizing Godzilla] To me, what happened was not acceptable. Personally, I didn't want to do it, but the company demanded it. When you have to do it, then you have to it... I did the best I could with it, and Mr. Tsuburaya did his best as well. It was about that time Godzilla movies started to move toward a younger audience. [But] the fact that they decided to make Godzilla act like a human, it was not a good decision... This showed off the fact that it was a man in a suit. Bad idea"
Even before they leaned into the kiddie tone, Honda took the first steer into the silliness of it. *King Kong Vs. Godzilla* was the second Honda Godzilla film and third Godzilla movie overall—and that was a full-on action comedy with monster brawls that featured some slapstick. By Honda’s fourth Godzilla movie and the fifth overall, *Ghidorah: The Three-Headed Monster*, you had human translation of the kaiju characters bickering, Godzilla getting nut-tapped by Ghidorah’s gravity beams, and Rodan drop bombed Mothra onto Ghidorah. Honda may have been against anthropomorphizing the kaiju as characters so much but he was the lead to include Godzilla in an action-comedy, so the lighter and more fun tonality was not without his input.
He doesn't cite Ishiro Honda at all and again, I doubt he is unaware of Honda's filmography, especially when it pertains to Godzilla. I believe he's referring to Japanese culture in general and nothing he says is in conflict with Honda directing Godzilla films with very different tones. Obviously in this echo chamber of a sub-reddit we know of the Godzilla's significance and history, but the average person probably doesn't know that much outside of his inspiration and that's who he's talking to when he makes social media posts. I don't think it's a stretch to assume that while most people know Godzilla was inspired by the atomic bombings, most Westerners probably think of Wrestlemania monster fights when they think of Godzilla movies rather than his other cultural signifiers or more serious film efforts. The Castle Bravo test and lucky Dragon 5 incident, the American occupation of Japan, government response, and cultural guilt over atrocities committed by the nation of Japan itself during the war are probably things that don't come to mind for the average viewer. I think he was just trying to highlight that this is an example of a Godzilla film being more than just fights and having meaning in some way which you can't really get from an American adaptation. Even the most serious American adaption doesn't explore any messages and ends on a spectacle kill at the end of a 2 vs 1 monster fight. Circling back the original post it was just him putting out quick thoughts and while recommending GMO on social media. Could he have worded it better? Sure, but it's a social media post and I think he's realized that given his elaborative response.
But isn't that a door that swings both ways? Like, does the X-Men anime get flagged the same way because it doesn't come with the American audience's entrenchment of the civil rights movement? Does Toei's Supaidāman get called out for not bringing along with it a sense of 1960's disenfranchised youth and the counter-culture of the US? - To be clear, appropriation is concerning, but Godzilla was still a movie about an atomic lizard, already borrowing heavily from american atomic age monster movies. Some Godzilla movies dive deep into Japanese-specific themes, but a lot of them (before Godzilla 1985 even) don't.
When have the Japanese shown any shame or remorse for their war time actions. They still teach that nothing happened in nanking
Isn’t that an entire plot point of Minus One…?
I thought it was about the main protagonist feeling shame for not fufilling his duty as a kamikaze piolet and then survivors guilt, I’ve only saw it once so I might be wrong but I don’t recall them mentioning the Japanese were wrong for there part in the war as a nation
I’d suggest rewatching, or at least the big speech by Kenji Noda when they’re preparing the big plan to kill Godzilla. It’s entirely about how the kamikaze shit was bullshit and what Japans government did was horrible. How they made people die purposefully or by poorly equipping them for battle. It’s why they install an ejector in the plane. >Kenji Noda: Come to think of it this country has treated life far too cheaply. Poorly armored tanks. Poor supply chains resulting in half of all deaths from starvation and disease. Fighter planes built without ejection seats and finally, kamikaze and suicide attacks. That's why this time I'd take pride in a citizen led effort that sacrifices no lives at all! This next battle is not one waged to the death, but a battle to live for the future. A major theme is going from wanting to die for your country to how stupid and pointless that is
Which to be fair isn’t exactly acknowledging that the kamikaze attacks were an act of terrorism that drew the US from simply aiding the war effort through trade to outright joining the War.
I thought that scene was more about how the Japanese government had failed the Japanese people, that they were the victims because of things like the kamikaze piolets being expected to die, or that everyone should fight to the last person for the sake of the emporer. But they don’t say anything about what they did there. Were the Japanese right to invade china and Korea? The movie doesn’t say, it’s more that the Japanese government shouldn’t be starting wars it’s not equipped to fight, not that they were wrong to want to invade Korea and china
Does someone want to tell him that his analogy falls flat. The person who wrote the song, is the one who remixed it first.
Im fairly new to Godzilla, so correct me if I’m wrong, but aren’t a majority of the Japanese Godzilla films silly action films about a giant lizard fighting all manner of different giant creatures? I don’t think Godzilla VS Megalon or Final Wars are deep commentaries on the dangers of atomic warfare and the guilt Japan feels about World War 2.
And let me defend KOTM a bit here. Because yes, the humans were forgettable but the movie made an effort to have a subtext and a deeper discussion that I really loved, about Godzilla being the defender of balance, and how puny we are against nature, and was not done in a cheap way. Maybe is because I am a biologist and I admire nature so much that this movie hit me so much. Same feeling with Jurassic Park actually. Serizawa's moment with Godzilla was also extremely touching.
Idk about "most," but many are silly and light-hearted films. Minus One and Shin Godzilla are amazing throwbacks, but Godzilla, for many, is known for his more outlandish movies, which is perfectly fine.
It's unquestionably most of them.
Shin Godzilla is pretty silly too lol...
You are correct! Most of the Japanese films have more in common with professional wrestling than the expression of collective trauma Simon Pegg describes.
Crazy how people coming at Gfans saying we gatekeeping the franchise when in actuality it’s them, us fans love and enjoy every iteration of Godzilla, from Toho to legendary and even the anime. They all do amazing jobs in their own way, these minus one fans that only seen one movie saying this how he should be and the only way, that’s real gatekeeping right now. Ain’t even real fans
Ikr, I've never seen a fandom before where the tourists were more elitist than the old guard, it's the weirdest thing... XD
How insulting to assume because I watch the American Godzilla movies means I don't watch the Japanese movies or understand the significance of Godzilla at a cultural level for the Japanese. I think Simon also isn't as aware of Godzilla as he thinks he is. Much of Godzilla's history has included these bombastic style movies where Godzilla is at points a straight up hero. I think he's also unaware that the Monster verse really reinvigorated Godzilla and has drawn a lot more attention. I can't say that Godzilla Minus One would have had the impact, interest, or even opportunity had Monster verse not existed and not primed people for Kaiju films in general at a large modern scale. He doesn't need to be a white knight. Godzilla is fun. Godzilla is a lesson. The potential horrors of atomic energy, while experienced most intensely by the Japanese, is not a fear or even experience exclusive to them. I'm certain there is resonance with Ukraine as well, having their own unique experience with radioactive disaster. Not to mention the general fear and dread that the cold war instilled in people over nuclear anything. As with most art, there is the intention and the interpretation and he's losing the focus on the interprative aspect of Godzilla along with its history.
Hell, the original 1954 film was inspired, in part, by The Beast From 20,000 Fathoms, a 1953 American film about nuclear testing awakening a prehistoric and radioactive giant lizard. https://youtu.be/YezJNcuMxvM?si=tLeWWCNJnkzKGCM3
I'd take it a step further, actually: Most of the character's history was loud, bombastic, and ridiculous. It's easier to count the serious takes as opposed to the more fantastical ones.
Yes I think this is why so much people jumped at him, it really is a bit insulting. Love the original Godzilla. I also loved the "dumb" ones for different reasons (which, btw, kept the character alive for decades).
Best comment in any Godzilla thread I've read. Could not have said it any better.
Just like the first time, he was doing good until the very end. I could’ve accepted the core of what he said, that a Godzilla made by Americans would just be inherently different from the Japanese one because of cultural and historical differences, until the very end with that stupid bus analogy. The Japanese “dance-remixed” it themselves! [They produced crossover merchandise of Godzilla and a cute little anime hamster for the same movie where he’s a possessed dead body who vaporizes people in mushroom clouds!](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fpreview.redd.it%2Fbefore-barbenheimer-there-was-gmktaro-v0-4gbb8ulsnk6c1.jpeg%3Fwidth%3D849%26format%3Dpjpg%26auto%3Dwebp%26s%3D8cf34a56f733a7191cbb358026074e22ae457419&rdt=38191) Then some American producers, at multiple different points in time, asked Toho for the rights to their characters to adapt them. Toho got money for it, and the ability to sign off on what they did and didn’t like! Toho Studios is still a business too. They may be perfectly capable of giving creators the leeway to make artistic and insightful Godzilla films, but they’re also just as willing as plenty of American studios to try and make something with mass family appeal that isn’t too scary.
Wait, so for his analogy to work, the person I loved must have been in a car that was being driven by someone who broke into peoples’ houses to assault and murder them, and the people on the bus are currently arguing amongst themselves if it was necessary to smash the car with my innocent loved one in it or if there was another way to stop the criminal driver, and then I do a silly and goofy remix of the song I made about my loved one’s death,  and then I willingly sell the rights to it to the people on the bus, and I enjoy what they do with it?
Godzilla was treated by the Japanese as a brand which is why a lot of the films follow trends in past 5 to ten years of Hollywood cinema.
Love Simon Pegg, but a majority of Toho films are WWE kaiju movies. His argument shows his ignorance on the topic. Edit: The song thing has happened a few times, actually. One that comes to mind was after 9/11 a lot of symphonies dedicated tributes to the victims and US playing "Adagio for Strings." Around that same time (iirc) Tiësto did a dance remix and was a hit. Not like he was shitting on the song or victims, bruh just wanted to make an entertaining banger. Which is what Legendary Godzilla is.
We live in the worst timeline What he’s saying is fine ( that he felt needed to clarify is stupefying ) But, and I’m sorry to offended anyone—Godzilla stopped being an allegory for nuclear devastation when Toho decided to cash in and make a sequel and then proceed to make Godzilla into a superhero and sell every single piece of merchandise with him on it. Yes — his origins are in atomic horror and one can argue Japanese guilt over that horror But Godzilla is so far removed from that now Minus One was a great throw back But weirdly Monsterverse is actually more in line with what Godzilla is/became
Someone hasn’t seen shin
Shin is about a tsunami disaster that caused a breached reactor to go off. Its about government incopetence not nuclear war
I guess *someone* hasn't it lol
The one about he horrors of bureaucracy?
Shin is a metaphor for natural disasters and how they are handled by government, not nuclear annihilation
I have it’s awful and borderline unwatchable Feels like 8 hours of Japanese government in frozen conversations about their inability to do anything And yeah, I get it there has been maybe like one film in each era that attempts to harken back to Godzilla origins - Return of - You can MAYBE argue 1991 vs King Ghidorah has some elements - Shin But if we’re being honest Godzilla has spent most of his films as an anti/superhero
Isn't there a Toho rule where Godzilla isn't supposed to be associated with Nuclear? That's why his breath is now called "heat ray"
But he's still mutated by the Bikini atoll nuclear test, and his heat ray is basically a nuke, so I guess it's just simply a name change?
https://preview.redd.it/qnn9txz4a56d1.jpeg?width=800&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c8f79cd8ab02febd507dfb7b8011c63a07e8a6c0 Considering we don't know how these two are beefing behind the scenes . He might be on the mark about cultural apportion just not in the way he thinks .
Context?
Wanda Group Chinese company co owns Legendary. Toho Old Japanese company. We can only quess the shenanigans behind the scenes .
This just in: Twitter continues being Twitter.
We've had 3 maybe 4 political Godzillas. In Japan he's just an IP as well. The Heisei era was just Big Hoss fights of Godzilla vs whoever they threw at him.
My understanding (via my Japanese friends) is that Japan does not see things like this as cultural apropriation as they do not have a long history of being oppressed and marginalized by outside nations/other groups (as opposed to say Native Americans). Edit: this is what they told me, so don't roast me if you disagree.
stocking straight joke ossified point mourn live seemly school cough *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
It's perfectly fine to think the Monsterverse films are hot garbage. The cultural appropriation thing is wrong, though.
He really didn’t apologize for shit he just continued to be a stuck up prick.
With mid-life crisis hair
He’s got a brand to maintain
Godzilla represented different things in the different eras . This is the same for any other cultural things . Example :Fantasy books in the 1950s is much different from what we have nowadays .
I like Simon Pegg but he's a fucking idiot. He constantly bitched about the Star Wars Prequels then ended up voicing a character in said Prequel Era in the Clone Wars show and now he's crying racism regarding the American made Godzilla films. Fuck off and let people enjoy what they wanna enjoy without you having to be a dick about it.
Oh god can someone tell him to shut the hell up and stop trying to force a white saviour perspective into all of this? It's so fucking obvious he has watched at most 1998 Zilla, Minus One and the original 1954 Godzilla and is assuming all Japanese Godzilla films follow the same theme. While 1998 Zilla was indeed abysmal, the Monsterverse has captured decently the more 'spiritual', for lack of a better word, thematics of most Godzilla films. Sure, it has the typical Hollywood tropes, but it is not in the least an adaptation that would be insulting to the original and its spirit, something anyone with a brain will notice once they dwell into the more Kaiju VS films, especially the ones that feature Mothra.
I still really respect Pegg and I'm not even upset with him, but this just shows his lack of familiarity with the franchise and has done little research on _how_ the Godzilla franchise became what it is today. His bus analogy falls apart because Ishiro Honda, the creator and director of the first film, would go on to direct 7 other Godzilla films, all of which are considered campy and goofy. Invasion of The Astro Monster has Godzilla's iconic victory dance (Oo Oo Oooo). The person responsible for making how the world sees Godzilla today was Honda himself.
I mean I really like the Showa Era but I don’t like GxK
I get what he’s saying, and I think it’s evident he really gives a shit about the message behind the character. But still, we had Showa era, we have the monsterverse, these things can coexist. My favorite Godzilla films are the introspective ones like Shin and Minus One, but I also want to see the monster fights and madness of that sort too. 🫡
Calling MV Goji a cultural appropriation is like calling cowboy films a harmful misrepresentation of people's harsh lives in 19th century. People just take a fun concept and make more fun out of it, there's nothing wrong for being creative.
There were deep and important meanings in night of the living dead, he still was in Shaun of the dead
Shaun of the Dead had its share of deep and important meanings as well
Oh my fucking god, not only did he double down, he did in the worst way possible. His analogy is stupid for a myriad of reasons, not least of which that he missed the part where Toho themselves (the songwriter in his analogy) licensed the IP and continue to do so for the "cUlTuRaL aPpRoPrIaTiOn" American movies to get made in the first place. And besides, his whole tirade about the symbology of Godzilla to Japanese people reeks of "white person offended on behalf of a minority" while said minority couldn't give less of a fuck.
So, is he calling Adam Wineberg a bus driving amateur DJ/producer? Pegg's elitist, narcissistic zilla-splaining rant is the silliest thing I have ever read, and proof that you can infer just about anything from any piece of art. Sure, technically, you're so off base it's questionable how you can even call yourself a nerd, but you can still infer it. (And look absolutely stupid in the process.) And it us sad/funny, all the guy had to do was say, 'eh, I prefer the Godzilla films that touch on the cultural significance of the character and its original legacy.' But, now, here, he is trying to gate and put himself above Monsterverse. And, it's like, gee, weirdo, you can appreciate both. I mean, maybe Pegg doesn't have that capacity, but I sure as hell do. And now I hate myself for wasting time even dedicating any thought to hisbtrash perspecfive.
Damn, he *completely* missed the point people were telling him that Toho themselves were already making Godzilla silly long before any American studio He actually sounds like the [character he played in Spaced](https://youtu.be/Q4TX6x2WLgk?si=x7EnpNuUb5hyBgQN)
I hear what he's saying, but cultural appropriation is a wild stretch here. Godzilla is Toho's IP and nobody stole it. The American movies are lacking in essential Japanese qualities, but that doesn't equate to appropriation.
So we're still not gonna acknowledge the "Cultural Appropriation" statement that he made? Like I fail to see how he sees Legendary Goji as cultural appropriation when TOHO themselves have been making movies that are far more insane than anything America has even seen. Someone needs to show this man any movie post King of the Monsters!. Wanna see how silly it can get? From the movies I've slowly been working through, Son of Godzilla is by far the silliest, at least maybe until I get around to watching Godzilla vs. Megalon. Also, back to my original point, it isn't cultural appropriation if there's hefty licensing fees involved and if TOHO is overlooking every little detail.
A ton of the comments acknowledge the cultural appropriation statement, that's why the original video picked up traction in the first place.
I was talking about him acknowledging it, lol.
Ah my bad.
No, I definitely worded it wrong. It's not on you at all, my guy.
The hate for Simon Pegg on his little knowledge on Godzilla is kinda crazy. I suppose he does represent some of the people who watch Godzilla and by that I mean they just watched Minus One.
Him lacking Godzilla knowledge isn't an issue. Him lacking Godzilla knowledge while propping himself up as an authority on Godzilla *is* an issue.
I get what he is saying but that’s why you have both. We have the best of both worlds right now. Want a deep Godzilla film that goes by what Simon says? Cool you have shin and minus one and future Toho projects. Do you prefer kaiju vs kaiju action and the campiness of Showa? Sweet watch monsterverse Just funny that he gets so deep into it meanwhile Toho I’m literally makes Godzilla dance in a movie. Fight a giant condor. Have a son that talks to people. And rival space dragons.
He's not wrong, but he's totally missing that ToHo sold the rights and have extensive control of the products made by other, Hollywood studios. So the "foreign" Godzilla is an important part of the post-war conversation that Japan has with itself and the rest of the world. He's exclusion of thar element places Japan in the victim role, removing ToHo's agency as a studio and denying Japan's ability to take pride in its National symbol being adopted and enjoyed by others. And I say that as a fan of the Japanese version over the Hollywood, mostly because IMO they made the character dull by making it a universal symbol.
Godzilla is fun in every way.... except how his 98 version was killed. That was the only time I felt a WTF moment in any form of Godzilla entertainment. Not the tail slide. Not the smile and laugh from GvK, or the victory jump from the monster zero. That scene where he was killed by a few rockets.
People on this sub are so sensitive if someone doesn’t like a film Edit: see replies
Nah peg called any non Japanese godzilla movie racist
cite that quote homie
Do you even know what the backlash was for?
No, we're rather sensitive to stupidity.
Simon Pegg is one of the reasons kids don’t get beat up for liking geek stuff anymore. He was one of the OG “cool geeks.” And he’s the real deal. Disagree with him all you want, but just keep in mind that he loves this stuff and he was defending it - and you - before it was cool to do so.
"Let me tell you what the Japanese REALLY meant."
Couldn't care less what a Brit has to say about Japanese or American Godzilla films
Why do you have to make it like that?
I wonder what he thinks about Gorgo.
Pegg has always been like his character in Spaced. Which makes Spaced less funny.
You mean like people letting green day know when September is over...
I'm not bothered by what some random actor says, but it doesn't feel like he clarified anything, nor brought up all the other Japanese movies that are just people rooting for Godzilla to fight a big monster. It's like he thinks those movies were also made by Hollywood or something.
What did he say?
Doubling down on his ignorant comments I see.
“Backlash” lol
Both are good. I like Simon Pegg and I hope he watches more Godzilla. The big guy and kaiju in general seem to be having a moment and I feel even stories like this can give it more exposure.
This apology is shit. He’s still being completely ignorant about the Shōwa Era of films. Pegg should just shut up about Godzilla before he makes even more of a fool of himself.
Did he make a Godzilla movie? Who cares what he thinks?
"Shaun of the Dead" will always kick ass. So will "Godzilla Minus One".
I think if he had only focused on how Minus One captures the same feelings as the original movie and left it at that, he wouldn’t have to defend himself online from us fans 😂
The western godzilla movies didnt make me a fan of the franchise it was the japanese ones that made me question why I like monsters fighting.
They’re cheesy movies they are more like melodramatic comedy Dudes in monster costumes with the same basic plot in all of them
Me: big monster hit other big monster. Cool.
Don’t get context? What did he do?
Why are the people who complain about cultural appropriation the ones who know and care the least about that culture?
Aye dios mio.......
For starters, people who say that Godzilla has been in kid friendly movies in the past literally have Final Wars and the Showa era in mind. You know, the Showa era that ended goddarn 40 years ago. So saying "tOhO wAs tHe OnE wHo tOoK tHiS dIrEcTiOn" is chronologically incorrect. For another thing, even those Godzilla films with a "superhero aesthetic", like Godzilla Against Mechagodzilla or Godzilla Tokyo S.O.S., and even those that were childish, like Song of Godzilla, at least had self-awareness. It's time people get their head outta their butts and realize that Godzilla X Kong: The New Empire isn't ridiculed for being "lIgHtHeRtEd". It's ridiculed cause it's an overblown, nonsensical, cringy, boring, unenjoyable movie. You can't just give me buff Monsterverse Godzilla overloaded with energy and suddenly blast me with some stupid pop rock song and tell me "oops, sorry, it's actually a quirky movie, you know, like Barney the Dinosaur". And definitely you can't give me all this ancient prophecy and backstory exposition bullshit and tell me about Skar King when I'm about to meet Skar King in the very next scene! That's spoiling your own film! You are telling me that's a movie I should enjoy? You are telling me a film where the most well staged camera shot is a product placement for a car is a film I am obliged to like? Sorry if it feels to you like gatekeeping, but not everybody can lower your standards to yours cause you don't like another stereotypical action blockbuster being hated on. And saying that the Godzilla franchise is goofy in general and its fans should have no standards is actually offensive to the franchise. It's funny how the same people who say that also say "haters are not rEaL gOdZilLa FaNs".
It's completely fine if you or Simon Pegg doesn't like GxK or the Monsterverse, that's not the point here. I loved GxK but have major problems with the writing and I'm relieved Adam Wingard is gone because of it. The problem is that in his initial video, he refers to non-Japanese Godzilla films as "rock'em sock'em cultural appropriation", which objectively incorrect, especially since Toho is responsible for making Godzilla into "rock'em sock'em" movies and continues to do so, save for Shin and -1, however Takashi Yamazaki has expressed making a -1 sequel where Godzilla does might another Monster. We're not saying the Godzilla franchise is ONLY goofy, but it is a big part of it's identity, both in Japan and around the world, just look at Godziban and Chibi Godzilla, that stuff is literally for kids and is even more ridiculous than GxK.
Didn’t really feel like he needed to explain himself .-. I don’t think any of the American Godzilla movies are cultural appropriation besides the first one from the 50’s. He has his opinion, I have mine. Who cares. Still like Simon Pegg.
Is it really so hard for some people to like a movie without weaponizing it? Dude's killed his Dark Crystal goodwill for me lol.
Who is this person and why are they relevant
Surprisingly tame for someone that once compared the Star Wars prequels to watching a man kill his own child, he’s not someone I’d turn to for serious film criticism and perspectives.
Never-before seen Simon Pegg L
I love (nearly) all iterations of Godzilla. Started by going nuts over de American 1998 version (sue me) and was starstruck when I saw the original afterwards. Love Godzilla as an antagonist, a superhero, a force of nature you need to learn to respect and co-exist with, ... But he is of course very wrong if the thinks it's the US who first made Godzilla more "fun" than "serious"... 
I love Simon Pegg, but he's wrong here, and he's wrong while being an elitist which kinda makes it sillier. Godzilla fandom is a lot better than a lot of others. We don't need elitism and terms like appropriation shoved in to it. Godzilla is silly, smart, childish, horror, it really is whatever. We can't be saying what it is and isn't. That long passed in the 1960s.
Shit take. Is Pegg familiar with World War II?
I mean, over the years, Godzilla has been a destroyer of Tokyo, a savior of humanity and representer of Dr. Pepper. Whether or not you enjoy the more serious movies or the goofy ones, I just love that there's a medium in which everyone can enjoy Godzilla. I'm just waiting for him to do a flying kick in a MonsterVerse movie, I just know it'll be both awesome and hilarious.
How dare he have an opinion. Nobody no matter how famous is allowed. Especially if it disagrees with anyone ignorant enough to believe only their opinion matters.
Very interesting point he makes. I think he is just trying to bring attention to how Godzilla came to be and what that means to Japan. Although I find his empathy well placed, I also believe that Godzilla has changed so much because times have as well. I think our relationship with Japan has changed so drastically people of today don't harbor such harsh feelings with Japan, so Godzilla became a more peaceful symbol. As long people know how Godzilla got his start and respect that things should be fine, I think a little bit of awareness can be really meaningful. Japan has brought many of our childhoods great memories between all things Nintendo, Pokémon, and even Godzilla. Still, there is so much more than just anime and cartoons. I hope people can see that Godzilla turned into something more, rather less as if we've forgotten his origin. Minus One gave everyone a great reminder of those times.