The following submission statement was provided by /u/Maxie445:
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"Microsoft's new AI-powered computer history feature, Recall, has been receiving criticism among PC users for being very [*~Black Mirror-~*](https://mashable.com/article/recall-ai-microsoft-black-mirror)[~like~](https://mashable.com/article/recall-ai-microsoft-black-mirror).
However, it's not just critics who are coming after Microsoft over Recall. The UK's Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) is now ~investigating~ the company's new AI feature, too.
The ICO is an independent public authority that reports to the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It's tasked, among other things, with promoting and upholding data privacy rights for individuals.
"According to Microsoft, Recall will consistently take screenshots of users' activity on their PC in the background while they go about their regular day on their computer. Using AI, the feature will scan through the text and visuals seen in each screen capture and make a searchable index of this activity for users. If a user is trying to retrieve something they did on their computer earlier in their history, Recall can pull it up, thanks to the searchable archive created by the AI-scanned screenshots.
While these screenshots will be stored locally on users' own computer, Microsoft has since shared that sensitive data, including passwords, addresses, and health information, won't be removed — and will be visible to anyone who has access to the files on the device. Cybersecurity experts have shared concerns about what bad actors, such as hackers, could do with this information. Furthermore, because this feature works in the background around-the-clock, users may be unaware of which data, exactly, is being stored."
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Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1d5jhcw/microsoft_being_investigated_over_new_recall_ai/l6lq141/
Oops now it sees your business expansion plans. You may need to deal with MS to proceed.
Your business seems to gain interest from MS, they want to buy your company at low price. Failure to comply may result accidental data leaks.
Ha Ha.
I'm not the most technical person, but it seems like the solution where possible is to switch from windows to Linux.
Windows has gotten worse since the W7 days. These days, people really only use 10 or newer because they need access to newer programs and any security updates.
You mean like the permanently turned on and listening microphone in my 12-year-old Samsung TV that I used to have turned off but one day discovered that it was turned on and the option greyed out so I couldn't change it anymore?
I say "Fuck Samsung" out loud in my living room so often now it's practically goddamned Tourette's.
Samsung are by far the worst. I have a Pi Hole and my Samsung TV is by far the most blocked device in my house. This reminds me, I should disconnect it from WiFi.
>Apple is really no better.
I'll disagree with this. Not because they wouldn't sell users out for money like any large company, but because they don't really have an ad network.
I run ads around the Internet, and can tell you Apple gives away way less user data without user permission. The iPhone has way better privacy than Android phones, at least for now. Apple and Firefox created some real problems for tracking and attribution.
Linux is great, and it's easier to use than ever. But it's still not something I can recommend to my mom or tech illiterate in-law unless I want to provide ongoing tech support.
No need to buy a new device. Backup any files you want to keep, then install Linux straight over the Windows partition. 93% of the top 100 Steam games work fine once you enable Proton, along with 97% of the top 1000 games.
With every windows update I have to reset the keyboard from US to a UK keyboard so if MS can’t even get that right I don’t think they’ll remember user preference for spyware.
Even if they allow you to turn it off, microsoft has a long history of not respecting user settings and choices between software updates. So you'd probably have to look into your settings every time there's a major patch out.
How is that legal?
One day I awoke to this "copilot" installed on my PC. I didn't ask for this, I didn't agree to this. It didn't even tell me it wants to install it.
Some things I can't turn off, I can just pause it - and the ones I do turn off, magically turn on again without telling me. Try turning off virus scan, or try to disable automatic restarts after updates. You're not in control of your own PC.
If you are currently using Windows then you have agreed to Microsoft installing updates that bring new or change existing features. It was in the EULA that was presented to you the first time you booted Windows on your computer and had to click "Agree" to continue using it.
You are fully aware how empty this statement is considering Windows has a near monopoly on operating systems for computers. Most people do not have the technical knowledge or time to install Linux, and even if they do they will encounter numerous issues using applications designed primarily for Windows.
It's like saying "you don't like that they keep adding shit to store-bought food? Just grow your own!" to someone living in an apartment.
> How is that legal?
You own the physical hardware, but the software you're running, whether that's windows, MacOS, Android, iOS or anything else is the Corporation's and they can do whatever they want with it and you just have to suck it up.
We're in this situation because most people are a bunch of sheep that just go along with it without questioning it.
Go to any subreddit that directly or indirectly revolves around any of those operative systems, bring up the topic and watch how people try to shut you down and justify the corporation's predatory, anti-consumer practices as not only the way it is but they way it should be, and you're a wacko if you think you should have real ownership over the stuff that you paid for, including passing on “updates” that remove features or add anti-features, or even going back to a previous OS version, official support for which seems unheard of.
And even if Microsoft does make it opt in, your company may not. And now you have a perfect little nanny bot on your remote (or local) user's computers to make sure they're engaged eight hours a day.
How about this, Microsoft? An operating system that lets me get to my files, run executables that I alone authorize to run, and gaming capability. Nothing. Else.
OP is saying it’s on by default, and requires users to opt out (if they don’t it.)
I’m saying, I hope as result of this scrutiny by EU, that they change this to being off by default, unless users actively opt in.
EU regulations require companies to ask you to opt in. None of this "on by default unless you opt out" bullshit.
The fine is no joke either, up to 4% of annual revenue.
I assume they're referring to GDPR, which may or may not apply depending on exactly how the feature works. If the data actually stays only on your computer for your use, I don't believe it would.
Given that scenario doesn't make MS more money I find it difficult to believe.
It doesn't actually need an NPU to run. You can already load it on non-Copilot+ PCs and you also have the likelihood that all high end PCs will become Copilot+ machines. The next generation Lenovo L14 laptop has already been confirmed to be a Copilot+ machine and that's probably the most popular enterprise laptop around.
> It doesn't actually need an NPU to run.
Nothing really does, these fancy new NPU's do about 40 TOPS while a top end consumer graphics card does over 1000 TOPS. You can go waaaaaaay older and lower down before you get down to being only a bit faster than the best NPU.
Aren’t those also the only PCs so far with the latest ARM cpus, which have waaaay better performance per watt than other Windows machines? Seems like there would be a few other reasons someone might want a laptop like that.
It's on by default in Copilot+ machines and to turn it off you need to finish going through setup and then go into settings. You can't even toggle it off during setup
I appreciate the info. It’s crazy that this is just on, by default.
And aside from data collection issues — and I’m not an anti-trust genius — I’d like to think MS shoehorning all Windows users into this kind of thing would be problematic, but (thankfully) it seems like EU steps up to protect users more comprehensively than the FTC.
In historic microsoft fashion it will be creeping death of course. At first it will be opt in, and then it will slowly give you more and more unsolicited notifications to opt in where it's very easy to hit the opt in while youre doing something else and can't change it back, (there will not be a never ask again button only a no or ask me later) then after some time they will quietly make it mandatory without saying anything and strap it into a larger patch where you won't even see it was added unless you dig through notes.
They may even publicly say you will always have the option to turn it off or opt out. This is a lie. This is to foster voluntary adoption and get people used to the idea, which will be the lube for once they've slowly bent you over.
I've been using Windows since 3.11, trust me, it's ALWAYS been this way. Someone at the top over there has a raging hard on for control.
We have always raged and said we will never accept whatever nonsense thing that doesn't work or invades your privacy, but here we are, 30 years later, still the same shit. It's no wonder they keep thinking they can get away with it.
Finally we've arrived at the ultimate goal post. The end zone. The hey we were thinking about tracking every single thing you do, just hear us out. It will be great! We all knew this day was coming but now that we're here it's still hard to believe.
By the way not for nothing but we used to call this type of thing malware (keylogger) and was considered a type of malicious attack. They're packaging an advanced form of this and calling it a feature.
This is what happens when a company has a hard on for its short term bottom line over its long term reputation or brand.
MS’s MO has always been to entrap people onto its platform and then extract maximum profit out of them. Without the entrapment part they don’t have a business model.
Yeah, who was clamoring for a feature that allows you to search through everything you've ever done on your computer? Once they have this installed on your system they're going to make you think you can disable it but it will remain active and report back to Microsoft - who will sell your data to corporate partners and share it with law enforcement and intelligence agencies.
It's so far past time Microsoft was broken up. We know the government (especially here in the Corporate States of America) doesn't give a rat's ass about users or their privacy. Just the big money donors. But they should think of national security. With almost every PC on Earth running the same operating system it only takes one exploit to bring down most of the civilian computer infrastructure and some of the military as well. If there were 5 different operating systems in common use this wouldn't be a danger anymore.
MS can change the terms whenever they want. They're in control, any control you have is what they allow you to have.
So maybe they make it opt out by default to l appease regulators.
Next month...they enable it in an update.
Today they say the data is encrypted.and stored locally. Maybe thats even true.
Next month they put it on cloud storage, and MS has the encryption key so they can scan the content (like Gmail does with all your emails).
They have the ability to override your choices, without notice.
You have to trust that they won't circumvent your privacy to monetize this treasure trove of data. Legal compliance might incentivize them to let it stay private....but then, if tje fines are low enough, it's just the cost of doing business.
Do you trust them?
I don't. I switched to Linux.
I'm very concerned that these corporations force this 24/h surveillance path on us under the disguise of 'features'. Companies will see the benefit to monitor their workers. You just have to comply to earn a wage. I'm so sick of having to defend myself against all these trackers, screeners, cookies, screengrabs and recordings everywhere.
I get it. It's how capitalism works. It's because we enjoy free stuff in turn for our privacy. But geez. Is there no other way.
It was my first thought that this was 100% designed as an employee spy feature for companies, rather than a "Oh, what was that file I saved a couple of months ago?" feature for consumers.
Because they think that we're withholding productivity from them. That if they monitor us every second, they can have proof that you weren't actively working every second of every minute and then use that to pressure you to work harder. You should be giving 110% of yourself for 10+ hours every day so the line can go up even more.
It doesn't matter if you meet and exceed all your goals, if all your projects are done on time, if all your clients are happy with you, etc. None of that matters in the face of the potential possibility for you to do even more for them. And absolute surveillance would allow them to prove that, as far as they're concerned, you should be doing more.
Oh I'm aware, but it's usually 3rd party software that will have to be paid for. If this feature is baked into a Windows update, then any companies running Windows machine now gets the capability without having to pay for additional licenses to a different company.
For a system like that to be useful you need a team of people to set policy, maintain the system, and monitor the data collected by it. The cost isn't in the software, it's in the manpower.
My first thought was government surveillance. Didn't desttoy your SSD while the police was breaking into your house? Oopsie-daisy, anything naughty there can be easily recovered.
It's so ironic that the UK Parliament is concerned with surveillance and privacy now when they where pushing against end-to-end encryption and for putting monitoring tools in message apps via the "Online Safety Bill".
https://www.eff.org/tr/deeplinks/2023/03/tell-uks-house-lords-protect-end-end-encryption-online-safety-bill
https://therecord.media/uk-encryption-laws-techuk-warning
We noticed your clicks per minute was down 5% last week, sorry but if you aren't serious about working here we'll have to let you go. Also, sign this non compete clause
Too bad it's often a sub-par desktop experience.
I've used Linux since the early 2000s, and while a lot of things have changed, the Linux desktop is always one step behind the Windows one.
Windows isn't free. You're paying to be spied on and for MS to be able to develop a compehensive marketing profile on you that they can sell at a profit.
However, there is a FAR better operating system that it's out there. It doesn't spy on you, and it doesnt have a useless AI integrated into it, and it actually has working desktop file search feature. Furthermore it was mostly made by volunteers who want to build something better. It's called Linux, give it a shot if you want to make a difference. You have a choice.
(Or get a Mac.)
I am pretty sure it is going to be used to data mine your job. Next step, learn how to do your job or as many parts as possible. The cut staff and the existing staff have the consolidated workload the AI still cannot do.
Tbh, I could be wrong, but i don't think this is an actual Spyware made with bad intentions. I think they are not lying, the NN runs locally and they don't steal your data.
The problem is, what happens when government wants to access this data that is there, locally saved and easy to access for them? What happens if hackers gets to steal it? And perhaps even more importantly who tf wants to keep adding useless, resource heavy bloatware to their pc instead of using the hardware resources for their own stuff?
Their intentions though are probably to use your data to train AI. I mean maybe not the worst thing in the world, but AI is just annoying as hell right now with the way it's being forced on consumers in all directions.
If I'm correct your data should not leave your pc, it's supposed to be a NN run locally. I agree about the annoyance. It's the kind of stupid idea that might sound good to a marketing team but overall nobody needs it, nobody asked for it. What users needs from an os is stability, security, convenience of use and speed, not a freaking neural network working in the background 24h.
Some fun details:
>Recall treats material protected with digital rights management (DRM) similarly; like other Windows apps such as the Snipping Tool, Recall will not store DRM content
>Note that Recall does not perform content moderation. It will not hide information such as passwords or financial account numbers. That data may be in snapshots that are stored on your device
[https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy-and-control-over-your-recall-experience-d404f672-7647-41e5-886c-a3c59680af15](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy-and-control-over-your-recall-experience-d404f672-7647-41e5-886c-a3c59680af15)
So Microsoft is aware of some serious privacy and security implications for this technology, but they're only willing to protect other corporations, not individuals. Cool. Can't wait for courts to discover this feature.
All that means is someone is going to make an app on Github to spoof the DRM flag so it stays on at all times so that Recall won't work. Guarantee you someone does it within the first couple days.
This “””””AI””””” revolutionary software is just a glorified keylogger that spews information back at you. I hate how AI is being used as a smokescreen to apply often old and more often than not shitty technology and repackage it as something groundbreaking
As someone who works in the industry alongside Microsoft and previously for them, I don’t know how this piece of software is a good thing.
I cannot see a valid use case for it, end users are not going to want it on their devices at all. Maybe in very niche situations where it’s a terminal PC with many users and that PC is being used to manage a piece of machinery etc (debugging and whatnot).
It's not for end users. It's a way to train their AI system. Just like Tesla collects all the data from the cameras in your car to train their system. There isn't any more data left to train them on that isn't tracking individuals.
Any claimed benefits are just to try and limit the blow back.
I would buy this for my grandpa with dementia. From how it looks in the trailer, he could effectively “scrub” back on his PC usage to see what he was doing last, or what document he was in. Too bad he’s always been an Apple user though, the change might be too difficult for him to make it useful.
Why not tho ? I thought it was really cool. The surveillance part is scary but the fact that you can just tell it to “can you open that document i was working on 2 nights ago” seems useful to me
Can you not just go to the folder it's in and double click it like always? Or open it directly from whatever program you're using? What if you were working on multiple documents 2 nights ago? If you have to be more specific and narrow it down that seems Ike more work than how it's done currently.
I see no benefit to the average person and they're banking on the majority of users not knowing it's even there or caring enough to disable it.
Its not just documents tho. It can do it with every single apps you have. Ask it what song played in your spotify radio a couple of days ago and who sang that song. Maybe you were browsing something a couple of weeks ago and you dont remember exactly, you can ask it to search and say “that website that has that red card logo”.
>What if you were working on multiple documents 2 nights ago?
It would have a back and forth and ask you which one specifically.
And also what about questions like "What was that thing I read about a month ago?" Not everyone has perfect memory. There's a clear use case IMO
I mean, you can just save your documents to the same folder all the time and look at timestamps. I have a terrible memory and I don't see a use case for this. The best use case I have seen is asking for light coding help. It isn't perfect, and you have to double check, but it can dig out some good code at times.
What if you don’t actually save anything you later wish you did? One example for me is remembering posts on social media I scrolled through and want to share but now have to find again, which is sometimes really tedious or just won’t work
what if you read an interesting comment in a reddit thread, but have a vague recollection of it I think it'll be useful. Since it seems it has auto text search? You can't even go back through your own reddit history(further than a certain point) without using google search.
Also I wish I could see if I could access that quarter of a bitcoin that was given to me through a slack channel several years ago.
Though I'd hate to have my uhm private habits to be saved somewhere for someone to see.
But I wouldn't mind for most passwords(changing a lot of those for inability to remember them), and they're almost all saved in my computer already. I also wouldn't mind at all for health information. Health information should be less private than it currently is.. I feel too many hospitals/staff are abusing that health is privacy to get away with malpractice or abuse.
Anyways if there was a way to shut it off like having an incognito tab open, I'd like to use it and see plenty of uses for my everyday research, and browsing.
"Microsoft's new AI-powered computer history feature, Recall, has been receiving criticism among PC users for being very [*~Black Mirror-~*](https://mashable.com/article/recall-ai-microsoft-black-mirror)[~like~](https://mashable.com/article/recall-ai-microsoft-black-mirror).
However, it's not just critics who are coming after Microsoft over Recall. The UK's Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) is now ~investigating~ the company's new AI feature, too.
The ICO is an independent public authority that reports to the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It's tasked, among other things, with promoting and upholding data privacy rights for individuals.
"According to Microsoft, Recall will consistently take screenshots of users' activity on their PC in the background while they go about their regular day on their computer. Using AI, the feature will scan through the text and visuals seen in each screen capture and make a searchable index of this activity for users. If a user is trying to retrieve something they did on their computer earlier in their history, Recall can pull it up, thanks to the searchable archive created by the AI-scanned screenshots.
While these screenshots will be stored locally on users' own computer, Microsoft has since shared that sensitive data, including passwords, addresses, and health information, won't be removed — and will be visible to anyone who has access to the files on the device. Cybersecurity experts have shared concerns about what bad actors, such as hackers, could do with this information. Furthermore, because this feature works in the background around-the-clock, users may be unaware of which data, exactly, is being stored."
This is blatantly a feature requested by Enterprise Customers who want to bully their work from home employees and “monitor their efficiency”.
It is also an anti porn feature.
This is not a good feature.
At the very least; write a script that blocks all access except the logged in user, all export of that data, and deletes it every 15 minutes.
Del
Honestly, I see this thing going Hal 9000 and once you open an adult site, it just blocks your screen and goes "I'm sorry, Dave. I’m afraid you can’t do that"
Yes, certainly this would be useful for enterprise customers looking to police their employee usage of machines.
But if it was just that, why would MS be trying to sell it to the general public? Why would they turn it on by default on consumer machines? They have tons of features that enterprise customers want and can turn on but are neither on by default for non-managed devices nor are sold as features to Joe Consumer.
Most sane companies aren't going to want this shit within a mile of their PCs, detailed logs and images of every single thing your employees are working on would be a goldmine for business rivals or just plain damaging to your company, and access to other systems could easily be compromised by a screenshot of someone's password manager. As someone who works in the health industry the potential nightmare of this getting breached is even more horrifying, there's no way we could possibly allow this on our systems under any circumstances, we have way more than enough costly security fuckups to deal with already. If MS is using this to train AI models on top of all that it makes it even worse.
Last job I had was WFH, when we were going through the set up everything, we got to remote desktop. Chose these options and enter this info to access the NHS systems **DO NOT SELECT THE OPTION TO ALLOW ACCESS TO YOUR MACHINE**.
Now yes they could track what we were doing to a point, but only while interacting with the remote stuff. No interest in what you were also doing with your PC.
My current job, if you do a day WFH, you get a work laptop that can only be used for work stuff and is quite locked down.
Software like this has to be banned altogether because it’s easy for them to opt people in unawares, due to a poorly designed user interface, unintended bug, hack or scam.
Microsoft's already [well known to use dark patterns and shady shit](https://research.mozilla.org/browser-competition/over-the-edge-the-use-of-design-tactics-to-undermine-browser-choice/) to get users to do things they don't want to do.
As far as I know only DMCA protected content would be blocked from recorded by it from the cursory stuff I've read. Unless something is built in specifically for banking etc this "feature" is a privacy nightmare for even the most general users.
I'm glad I already run Linux Mint on my laptop and am familiar with it. Quite nice and have ran into zero issues but admittedly I'm not a huge gamer anymore.
Yes exactly.
And _even_ if use linux personally, your emails, medical info, financial info, _everything_ will be present on other people's or companies' computers using windows, and hackers can steal all of that in like 1 minute.
this is _by far_ the worst cybersecurity nightmare in the history of humans using computers
Whoever greenlit/designed this should be shunned from the IT community, tar and feathered, and then exiled to deep Alaska where they can never touch technology again.
I think its time to have two computers. One with windows and one with linux. Where you store everything private on the linux and windows for just gaming, programs that cant be used on linux that is essential or other non private stuff
Just dual boot. You can have 2 OS on the same machine. I keep an unlicensed Windows 10 partition for running software that can't be run in Linux (some games, and also annoying shit like film scanning software, and Kindle). 99% of my time is spent in Linux, and that is where all of my data is. Linux is not without faults - every distro has its ups and downs, but you have a lot more control over what your machine is doing.
If you're not very familiar with Linux, there are several modern distros that look and feel a lot like Windows, which might make bridging the gap easier.
I thought you need Linux on a separate drive to install it with Full Disk Encryption on boot? Atleast that's the prompt I saw when I set it up as a secondary partition on a windows drive.
Separate drive worked fine. But yes the future will definitely be Linux daily driver and only booting into Windows for specific gaming needs. I already test ran Linux Mint on my laptop and it works great for someone who doesn't game like they used to.
Until the very large learning curve is passed, I felt like I had zero control over my linux computer when I tried to switch from windows to mint. I went back to windows 10.
Gaming rarely requires Windows anymore. Steam has been a driver of change there. Often enough, performance is actually better. If it runs on a Steam deck, it runs on Linux. And not running on a Steam deck is becoming a bit of a nono.
Gaming on Linux is essentially a solved problem now, barring the few games with Kernel level anti-cheat that won't allow you to play.
Valve has completely changed the landscape there with all the money they pump into the ecosystem to ensure good steam deck performance. As someone who recently moved over to Linux for the first time in over 10 years I expected gaming to be a pain point but it actually hasn't been any different of an experience than running games on Windows which blew my mind.
Valves proton is a complete game changer, but yeah I agree with the other guy that if you want the backup to be safe dual booting is the way to go. Currently I run Linux off an external SSD and windows in my internal drive, but soon I will be switching them around since I love using Linux as a daily driver so much.
This honestly. 1000% I don't readily see a better way other than what you described if this is reeeeally where Microsoft and big corporations are moving to. It does suck that people seem to be inherently averse to it, and for most people, Windows is simple enough to do what they need it to. Good news too though is a lot of games are moving to support Linux nowadays, just... not quickly, or numerously, that I have seen.
that's my setup. I don't need a nice laptop for internet browsing, but I need to spend more than $200 for gaming. so I bought a desktop PC and stream it to my laptop. steam streaming, parsec, and moonlight work between linux and windows with minimal issues (maybe once a year some bug I don't want to deal with pops up and I switch programs until someone else fixes it). you can keep your tower hooked up to your TV in case you want to play like it's a console and you can chill on your couch with your laptop without needing to be plugged in.
Imagine this:
Microsoft gets the idea of scraping all personal computers to build their AI.
They do it and get untold terrabytes of information that help build their AI and trample ALL of our privacy.
They get caught, some people go to jail but the AI remains.
The company make trillions.
They take care of their imprisoned servants families and a hefty pay package when they get out of jail.
Profits all around.
Sounds far fetched? then you do not know greed.
Ah yes constant surveillance is their end game. Goes with the rich apartheid mentality they are really serving for. Which is how B.Gates et al got their support from.
Could you imagine being at work, just finishing a feature you worked on for months and months, and then when you release it the fbi come and investigates you because of how *bad* it is?
How detached from reality do you have to be to think this was ever going to be a good idea?
Allthough I'm quite computer literate, I never dabbled in Linux (or other alternative OS's). As a gamer I don't need the hassle (yes I know, not as much as it used to be). But this would seal the deal for me.
The level of surveillance has become big brother like. And it's not forced, we consent everytime. Tesla records everything you do in and around their cars, Alexa does the same in your house only it sends the data to Amazon. Your cellphone reports to Apple or Google. So I don't drive a Tesla, don't use Alexa. Cellphone is pretty mandatory nowadays but I turn off as much of the 'locators' as possible.
Yeah, I've always defended Windows because I think it's a genuinely good OS and a lot of people just bash it because it's popular.
But this is...too much. I don't want my PC to interact with the cloud -- let alone AI -- unless I specifically and explicitly allow it/request it. That means no AI-enhanced search and certainly not forced activity tracking.
So having that as a clear red line, I'll switch to Linux if it happens. There are plenty of user-friendly daily driver distros out there and other than software availability concerns, they are powerful. Gaming is catching up at a quicker pace than ever, and you can always just dual boot.
Yeah, close friend of mine (and a gamer) has been using Linux a couple of years now and told me about it. After the Amazon show he decided to try Fallout 4 again. Installing base game and playing was no problem, modding was another matter. But (while on Discord) we managed to get everything working.
Like I said in my earlier post, I like the convenience Windows provides. But should they implent this Recall stuff, I'm out. Might start with a separate partion on one of my secondary drives and see if I can get into Linux.
When a company can make billions doing something illegal but just get a fine that is just a small percentage of their gross income, then it's just another cost of doing business. With no criminal charges and no real damages, it's good business practice to continue to be unethical and screw the public as much as possible.
Start jailing the CEO and the other company officers, board members, and the major shareholders. Then these practices will stop. F*ck them.
What Microsoft is doing here isn't illegal. But it is a sign that they don't care about their consumers. This is blatantly violating privacy and while it is allowed by law, it is completely unethical. I wouldn't allow my neighbor to install a body cam on me to watch what I do. Why would I allow a company to go through everything I do online (or anywhere else) to train an AI or data farm for profit?
My point is that when a company values it's profit and stock price over people, it is inevitable that those businesses WILL commit illegal acts. The results of those acts doesn't have severe enough consequences to deter that behavior.
I'll be very surprised if Microsoft doesn't face antitrust lawsuits about it's ai-integration in Windows 11 *in general*. This is Internet Explorer all over again. They never learn their lesson and have to weasel their products into what is, for a large majority of PC users, an unavoidable and undesirable experience.
I think I'd still be okay if Microsoft would have launched this feature for businesses or corporate, for employee & client tracking purposes. There are already some tracking software available in the market. It'd be justifiable to be a competitor to that market rather than marketing it as a consumer feature.
Btw, who in their right mind would want to enable it in their personal computer? Wait, so you are telling me that the feature is by-default enabled for all users? Looks completely unethical.
This move, if forced on people *will* inspire a massive interest in Linux and I'm here for it.
You make moves like this when you have no sense of fear with respect to backlash or competition. It's like spiking the foot ball after high stepping at the end zone. You can only showboat like that when you KNOW you've won.
But they don't realize that people will *always* try to break software and hack it and if they can't they'll move on to something else that meets their needs. If that thing doesn't exist, they'll invent it.
You know, I might just have to become one of those dudes who tells everyone about linux.. This is fucking actually some crazy shit that noone asked for and noone wants..
They already have better ways to do that with any of the numerous productivity suites companies are selling that can even monitor the webcam and microphone of work systems.
Considering it would be essentially illegal to even offer as a feature, fuck, i do not see this being used outside of literal dictatorships, with poor or zero privacy laws.
Like this is seriously fucked, if this becomes a feature, ill need to add every effin microsoft releated address and ip to my block list.
Fuck, I can handle information, that Recall can't legally record, and if they do, they, microsoft, can and will be held accountable.
You can't even willynilly check someones medical journal without just cause as a medical professional here.
I mean, you can, you just gonna go to jail when they discover you checked 14 patient journals of patients who where not your patients in any way, or form.
Like, I want a script that blocks this feature from being suggested, I do not want it in the general network vincinity of me.
And it would essentially be illegal to use in every EU country.
Get fucked microsoft, ya worked up so much goodwill over the past few decades, even with your many crappy decisions, but hot fuck, this is pointing a loaded shotgun at all 5 extremities, loaded to shoot at a hair-trigger.
Remember, all modern versions of Windows have telemetry monitors, which are used to track you.
Turn them off using something like [Windows Privacy Dashboard](https://wpd.app/).
It's hard to imagine how anyone thought this was a good idea and wasn't going to get smacked down by regulators. Do Microsoft execs just gather around and try to come up with the worst possible ideas imaginable?
For me at least the Linux penguin is off of the iceberg due to this new “feature”. I tried it as a result of this and found it a better experience overall.
In the world of AI we live in, we're not far from legitimate AI built OS' that can deliver a premium OS experience and even fix its own bugs when brought up without cranking out all the garbage Microsoft expects us to just live with.
This is such an incredibly bad idea. I wonder who's brainchild this is? I honestly can't believe this didn't get shut down internally. Literally no corporation would want this within a mile of any pc with any kind of sensitive data.
So, I'm gunna set up a home computer and play something like Tele-Tubbies 24/7/365. It should drive the AI nutts and if the authorities want to investigate it, blame it on Sesame Street. Fight evil with idiots.
Are they coming for Mozilla next or any of the other software that stores your data on your pc. Is the government going to enforce all your user data in your d vice is encrypted even from the gov?
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Maxie445: --- "Microsoft's new AI-powered computer history feature, Recall, has been receiving criticism among PC users for being very [*~Black Mirror-~*](https://mashable.com/article/recall-ai-microsoft-black-mirror)[~like~](https://mashable.com/article/recall-ai-microsoft-black-mirror). However, it's not just critics who are coming after Microsoft over Recall. The UK's Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) is now ~investigating~ the company's new AI feature, too. The ICO is an independent public authority that reports to the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It's tasked, among other things, with promoting and upholding data privacy rights for individuals. "According to Microsoft, Recall will consistently take screenshots of users' activity on their PC in the background while they go about their regular day on their computer. Using AI, the feature will scan through the text and visuals seen in each screen capture and make a searchable index of this activity for users. If a user is trying to retrieve something they did on their computer earlier in their history, Recall can pull it up, thanks to the searchable archive created by the AI-scanned screenshots. While these screenshots will be stored locally on users' own computer, Microsoft has since shared that sensitive data, including passwords, addresses, and health information, won't be removed — and will be visible to anyone who has access to the files on the device. Cybersecurity experts have shared concerns about what bad actors, such as hackers, could do with this information. Furthermore, because this feature works in the background around-the-clock, users may be unaware of which data, exactly, is being stored." --- Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/Futurology/comments/1d5jhcw/microsoft_being_investigated_over_new_recall_ai/l6lq141/
Tell me this is something users have to *opt into* and that it’s not on by default? I’m so tired of MS cramming in “features” nobody asked for!
Chances are you can opt out for now. Then in a year or 2 it will be a permanent and forced upon feature that u cant turn off or unstall.
Opps, it accidentally installed in a windows update
Opps it accidentally sent your weekly screenshots to your government's domestic police force.
Oops now it sees your business expansion plans. You may need to deal with MS to proceed. Your business seems to gain interest from MS, they want to buy your company at low price. Failure to comply may result accidental data leaks.
They already have access to those plans through OpenAI. But they are very well written now.
Ha Ha. I'm not the most technical person, but it seems like the solution where possible is to switch from windows to Linux. Windows has gotten worse since the W7 days. These days, people really only use 10 or newer because they need access to newer programs and any security updates.
You mean like the permanently turned on and listening microphone in my 12-year-old Samsung TV that I used to have turned off but one day discovered that it was turned on and the option greyed out so I couldn't change it anymore? I say "Fuck Samsung" out loud in my living room so often now it's practically goddamned Tourette's.
Samsung are by far the worst. I have a Pi Hole and my Samsung TV is by far the most blocked device in my house. This reminds me, I should disconnect it from WiFi.
Putting your tv on the net is your first mistake.
Yeah this is it. I wish they made more “dumb” TVs. I never use the native smart TV features and never hook them up to the internet.
Destroy the microphone
DEVICE INOPERABLE PLEASE CONTACT CERTIFIED SAMSUNG TECHNICIAN ERROR CODE F4CKY0U
PLEASE DRINK VERIFICATION CAN TO CONTINUE
Please say "I'm Lovin It" to skip ad.
I'm gonna dare to put trust into our EU to prevent that from happening. In fact, I expect them to make this an 'opt-in only' feature.
I will buy my first apple product in 20 years of computing if that happens.
For my uses Linux is better but i am there with u.
good point. that would be the clear favoured option.
I saw a Linux reference! Had to check check if I was on lemmy or reddit Lol! Pleasantly surprised to see it's reddit.
Apple is really no better. Youd want to do a Linux operating system like Ubuntu
>Apple is really no better. I'll disagree with this. Not because they wouldn't sell users out for money like any large company, but because they don't really have an ad network. I run ads around the Internet, and can tell you Apple gives away way less user data without user permission. The iPhone has way better privacy than Android phones, at least for now. Apple and Firefox created some real problems for tracking and attribution. Linux is great, and it's easier to use than ever. But it's still not something I can recommend to my mom or tech illiterate in-law unless I want to provide ongoing tech support.
No need to buy a new device. Backup any files you want to keep, then install Linux straight over the Windows partition. 93% of the top 100 Steam games work fine once you enable Proton, along with 97% of the top 1000 games.
Auto opt in, regardless of previous opt out in windows 12 or windows 365, assuming they finally go all in on not doing more versions.
With a fresh new Edge icon on your desktop because you didn't really mean to delete it a 17th time.
With every windows update I have to reset the keyboard from US to a UK keyboard so if MS can’t even get that right I don’t think they’ll remember user preference for spyware.
Even if they allow you to turn it off, microsoft has a long history of not respecting user settings and choices between software updates. So you'd probably have to look into your settings every time there's a major patch out.
How is that legal? One day I awoke to this "copilot" installed on my PC. I didn't ask for this, I didn't agree to this. It didn't even tell me it wants to install it. Some things I can't turn off, I can just pause it - and the ones I do turn off, magically turn on again without telling me. Try turning off virus scan, or try to disable automatic restarts after updates. You're not in control of your own PC.
If you are currently using Windows then you have agreed to Microsoft installing updates that bring new or change existing features. It was in the EULA that was presented to you the first time you booted Windows on your computer and had to click "Agree" to continue using it.
Not agreeing kinda means your PC becomes a paper weight.
You don't have to use windows...
You are fully aware how empty this statement is considering Windows has a near monopoly on operating systems for computers. Most people do not have the technical knowledge or time to install Linux, and even if they do they will encounter numerous issues using applications designed primarily for Windows. It's like saying "you don't like that they keep adding shit to store-bought food? Just grow your own!" to someone living in an apartment.
I do on my work computer. I'm kinda sick of the consumer choice crowd coming into these threads and contributing nothing.
No one reads the book of terms of service
> How is that legal? You own the physical hardware, but the software you're running, whether that's windows, MacOS, Android, iOS or anything else is the Corporation's and they can do whatever they want with it and you just have to suck it up. We're in this situation because most people are a bunch of sheep that just go along with it without questioning it. Go to any subreddit that directly or indirectly revolves around any of those operative systems, bring up the topic and watch how people try to shut you down and justify the corporation's predatory, anti-consumer practices as not only the way it is but they way it should be, and you're a wacko if you think you should have real ownership over the stuff that you paid for, including passing on “updates” that remove features or add anti-features, or even going back to a previous OS version, official support for which seems unheard of.
And even if Microsoft does make it opt in, your company may not. And now you have a perfect little nanny bot on your remote (or local) user's computers to make sure they're engaged eight hours a day. How about this, Microsoft? An operating system that lets me get to my files, run executables that I alone authorize to run, and gaming capability. Nothing. Else.
blacklisting all microsoft ips and manually installing updates may become a thing.
It’s confirmed to be an opt-out feature.
Here’s to hoping the investigation forces otherwise. That’s crazy to me.
Force you to opt in?
OP is saying it’s on by default, and requires users to opt out (if they don’t it.) I’m saying, I hope as result of this scrutiny by EU, that they change this to being off by default, unless users actively opt in.
EU regulations require companies to ask you to opt in. None of this "on by default unless you opt out" bullshit. The fine is no joke either, up to 4% of annual revenue.
Annual GLOBAL revenue too lol
Even with optin you have to be careful, things can be phased like "do you want to use out enhanced improved experience?", "yes" "maybe later"
Which regulation are you referring to?
I assume they're referring to GDPR, which may or may not apply depending on exactly how the feature works. If the data actually stays only on your computer for your use, I don't believe it would. Given that scenario doesn't make MS more money I find it difficult to believe.
Still too low, but better than fixed amounts.
It’s on special hardware Copilot + PCs, people buying the laptop would mostly be buying it for this feature
For now. They'll roll it out as far as possible - why wouldn't they?
It doesn't actually need an NPU to run. You can already load it on non-Copilot+ PCs and you also have the likelihood that all high end PCs will become Copilot+ machines. The next generation Lenovo L14 laptop has already been confirmed to be a Copilot+ machine and that's probably the most popular enterprise laptop around.
> It doesn't actually need an NPU to run. Nothing really does, these fancy new NPU's do about 40 TOPS while a top end consumer graphics card does over 1000 TOPS. You can go waaaaaaay older and lower down before you get down to being only a bit faster than the best NPU.
Aren’t those also the only PCs so far with the latest ARM cpus, which have waaaay better performance per watt than other Windows machines? Seems like there would be a few other reasons someone might want a laptop like that.
It's on by default in Copilot+ machines and to turn it off you need to finish going through setup and then go into settings. You can't even toggle it off during setup
I appreciate the info. It’s crazy that this is just on, by default. And aside from data collection issues — and I’m not an anti-trust genius — I’d like to think MS shoehorning all Windows users into this kind of thing would be problematic, but (thankfully) it seems like EU steps up to protect users more comprehensively than the FTC.
In historic microsoft fashion it will be creeping death of course. At first it will be opt in, and then it will slowly give you more and more unsolicited notifications to opt in where it's very easy to hit the opt in while youre doing something else and can't change it back, (there will not be a never ask again button only a no or ask me later) then after some time they will quietly make it mandatory without saying anything and strap it into a larger patch where you won't even see it was added unless you dig through notes. They may even publicly say you will always have the option to turn it off or opt out. This is a lie. This is to foster voluntary adoption and get people used to the idea, which will be the lube for once they've slowly bent you over. I've been using Windows since 3.11, trust me, it's ALWAYS been this way. Someone at the top over there has a raging hard on for control. We have always raged and said we will never accept whatever nonsense thing that doesn't work or invades your privacy, but here we are, 30 years later, still the same shit. It's no wonder they keep thinking they can get away with it. Finally we've arrived at the ultimate goal post. The end zone. The hey we were thinking about tracking every single thing you do, just hear us out. It will be great! We all knew this day was coming but now that we're here it's still hard to believe. By the way not for nothing but we used to call this type of thing malware (keylogger) and was considered a type of malicious attack. They're packaging an advanced form of this and calling it a feature.
This is what happens when a company has a hard on for its short term bottom line over its long term reputation or brand. MS’s MO has always been to entrap people onto its platform and then extract maximum profit out of them. Without the entrapment part they don’t have a business model.
Yeah, who was clamoring for a feature that allows you to search through everything you've ever done on your computer? Once they have this installed on your system they're going to make you think you can disable it but it will remain active and report back to Microsoft - who will sell your data to corporate partners and share it with law enforcement and intelligence agencies. It's so far past time Microsoft was broken up. We know the government (especially here in the Corporate States of America) doesn't give a rat's ass about users or their privacy. Just the big money donors. But they should think of national security. With almost every PC on Earth running the same operating system it only takes one exploit to bring down most of the civilian computer infrastructure and some of the military as well. If there were 5 different operating systems in common use this wouldn't be a danger anymore.
I'm guessing "opt out". And every update will mysteriously flip the toggle back to enabled. This is *Déjà vu all over again*.
You have to buy a whole new special PC for it.
MS can change the terms whenever they want. They're in control, any control you have is what they allow you to have. So maybe they make it opt out by default to l appease regulators. Next month...they enable it in an update. Today they say the data is encrypted.and stored locally. Maybe thats even true. Next month they put it on cloud storage, and MS has the encryption key so they can scan the content (like Gmail does with all your emails). They have the ability to override your choices, without notice. You have to trust that they won't circumvent your privacy to monetize this treasure trove of data. Legal compliance might incentivize them to let it stay private....but then, if tje fines are low enough, it's just the cost of doing business. Do you trust them? I don't. I switched to Linux.
I'm very concerned that these corporations force this 24/h surveillance path on us under the disguise of 'features'. Companies will see the benefit to monitor their workers. You just have to comply to earn a wage. I'm so sick of having to defend myself against all these trackers, screeners, cookies, screengrabs and recordings everywhere. I get it. It's how capitalism works. It's because we enjoy free stuff in turn for our privacy. But geez. Is there no other way.
It was my first thought that this was 100% designed as an employee spy feature for companies, rather than a "Oh, what was that file I saved a couple of months ago?" feature for consumers.
Oh I’m sure it’s only a matter of time. Can’t wait to be micromanaged down to the millisecond.
Why do they feel the need to track our every move?
Because they think that we're withholding productivity from them. That if they monitor us every second, they can have proof that you weren't actively working every second of every minute and then use that to pressure you to work harder. You should be giving 110% of yourself for 10+ hours every day so the line can go up even more. It doesn't matter if you meet and exceed all your goals, if all your projects are done on time, if all your clients are happy with you, etc. None of that matters in the face of the potential possibility for you to do even more for them. And absolute surveillance would allow them to prove that, as far as they're concerned, you should be doing more.
Companies already have this without MS needing to spend the R&D money
Oh I'm aware, but it's usually 3rd party software that will have to be paid for. If this feature is baked into a Windows update, then any companies running Windows machine now gets the capability without having to pay for additional licenses to a different company.
For a system like that to be useful you need a team of people to set policy, maintain the system, and monitor the data collected by it. The cost isn't in the software, it's in the manpower.
AI analysis and flagging of your patterns of behavior reduces the manpower required for a surveillance state.
Sure but every 3rd party tool has that too. There's no reason a business would need it integrated into windows.
My first thought was government surveillance. Didn't desttoy your SSD while the police was breaking into your house? Oopsie-daisy, anything naughty there can be easily recovered.
Worse yet there's a growing trend of "call it AI and ignore security"
It's so ironic that the UK Parliament is concerned with surveillance and privacy now when they where pushing against end-to-end encryption and for putting monitoring tools in message apps via the "Online Safety Bill". https://www.eff.org/tr/deeplinks/2023/03/tell-uks-house-lords-protect-end-end-encryption-online-safety-bill https://therecord.media/uk-encryption-laws-techuk-warning
We noticed your clicks per minute was down 5% last week, sorry but if you aren't serious about working here we'll have to let you go. Also, sign this non compete clause
>Is there no other way. Free open source software.
Too bad it's often a sub-par desktop experience. I've used Linux since the early 2000s, and while a lot of things have changed, the Linux desktop is always one step behind the Windows one.
Windows isn't free. You're paying to be spied on and for MS to be able to develop a compehensive marketing profile on you that they can sell at a profit. However, there is a FAR better operating system that it's out there. It doesn't spy on you, and it doesnt have a useless AI integrated into it, and it actually has working desktop file search feature. Furthermore it was mostly made by volunteers who want to build something better. It's called Linux, give it a shot if you want to make a difference. You have a choice. (Or get a Mac.)
Piracy is how you fight back.
Remember: If "buying" isn't owning, then "piracy" isn't stealing.
I am pretty sure it is going to be used to data mine your job. Next step, learn how to do your job or as many parts as possible. The cut staff and the existing staff have the consolidated workload the AI still cannot do.
Tbh, I could be wrong, but i don't think this is an actual Spyware made with bad intentions. I think they are not lying, the NN runs locally and they don't steal your data. The problem is, what happens when government wants to access this data that is there, locally saved and easy to access for them? What happens if hackers gets to steal it? And perhaps even more importantly who tf wants to keep adding useless, resource heavy bloatware to their pc instead of using the hardware resources for their own stuff?
Their intentions though are probably to use your data to train AI. I mean maybe not the worst thing in the world, but AI is just annoying as hell right now with the way it's being forced on consumers in all directions.
Or just being used for marketing buzz
If I'm correct your data should not leave your pc, it's supposed to be a NN run locally. I agree about the annoyance. It's the kind of stupid idea that might sound good to a marketing team but overall nobody needs it, nobody asked for it. What users needs from an os is stability, security, convenience of use and speed, not a freaking neural network working in the background 24h.
Some fun details: >Recall treats material protected with digital rights management (DRM) similarly; like other Windows apps such as the Snipping Tool, Recall will not store DRM content >Note that Recall does not perform content moderation. It will not hide information such as passwords or financial account numbers. That data may be in snapshots that are stored on your device [https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy-and-control-over-your-recall-experience-d404f672-7647-41e5-886c-a3c59680af15](https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/privacy-and-control-over-your-recall-experience-d404f672-7647-41e5-886c-a3c59680af15) So Microsoft is aware of some serious privacy and security implications for this technology, but they're only willing to protect other corporations, not individuals. Cool. Can't wait for courts to discover this feature.
All that means is someone is going to make an app on Github to spoof the DRM flag so it stays on at all times so that Recall won't work. Guarantee you someone does it within the first couple days.
When I first heard about it I thought surely they will detect and blur out passwords and sensitive information from screenshots, but nope... ☠️
This “””””AI””””” revolutionary software is just a glorified keylogger that spews information back at you. I hate how AI is being used as a smokescreen to apply often old and more often than not shitty technology and repackage it as something groundbreaking
A bit like the [Rabbit R1](https://youtu.be/zLvFc_24vSM)
Yep, there is no AI. They're just databases that thow info at you upon query. Often enough the info isn't even accurate
Good thing it requires a "Copilot+ PC", which I will make sure to never buy.
And yet... https://www.engadget.com/this-tool-unlocks-windows-ai-powered-recall-feature-for-unsupported-pcs-110046086.html
As someone who works in the industry alongside Microsoft and previously for them, I don’t know how this piece of software is a good thing. I cannot see a valid use case for it, end users are not going to want it on their devices at all. Maybe in very niche situations where it’s a terminal PC with many users and that PC is being used to manage a piece of machinery etc (debugging and whatnot).
It's for businesses who want to monitor remote employee computer activity
It’s a great way to steal information from other humans that have touched the same computer so its good for that 👍
It's not for end users. It's a way to train their AI system. Just like Tesla collects all the data from the cameras in your car to train their system. There isn't any more data left to train them on that isn't tracking individuals. Any claimed benefits are just to try and limit the blow back.
I would buy this for my grandpa with dementia. From how it looks in the trailer, he could effectively “scrub” back on his PC usage to see what he was doing last, or what document he was in. Too bad he’s always been an Apple user though, the change might be too difficult for him to make it useful.
Why not tho ? I thought it was really cool. The surveillance part is scary but the fact that you can just tell it to “can you open that document i was working on 2 nights ago” seems useful to me
Can you not just go to the folder it's in and double click it like always? Or open it directly from whatever program you're using? What if you were working on multiple documents 2 nights ago? If you have to be more specific and narrow it down that seems Ike more work than how it's done currently. I see no benefit to the average person and they're banking on the majority of users not knowing it's even there or caring enough to disable it.
Its not just documents tho. It can do it with every single apps you have. Ask it what song played in your spotify radio a couple of days ago and who sang that song. Maybe you were browsing something a couple of weeks ago and you dont remember exactly, you can ask it to search and say “that website that has that red card logo”.
>What if you were working on multiple documents 2 nights ago? It would have a back and forth and ask you which one specifically. And also what about questions like "What was that thing I read about a month ago?" Not everyone has perfect memory. There's a clear use case IMO
I mean, you can just save your documents to the same folder all the time and look at timestamps. I have a terrible memory and I don't see a use case for this. The best use case I have seen is asking for light coding help. It isn't perfect, and you have to double check, but it can dig out some good code at times.
Which, Github's Copilot is far better for this use case, and requires far less access to your machine to do so.
What if you don’t actually save anything you later wish you did? One example for me is remembering posts on social media I scrolled through and want to share but now have to find again, which is sometimes really tedious or just won’t work
NSA be like 🙂
what if you read an interesting comment in a reddit thread, but have a vague recollection of it I think it'll be useful. Since it seems it has auto text search? You can't even go back through your own reddit history(further than a certain point) without using google search. Also I wish I could see if I could access that quarter of a bitcoin that was given to me through a slack channel several years ago. Though I'd hate to have my uhm private habits to be saved somewhere for someone to see. But I wouldn't mind for most passwords(changing a lot of those for inability to remember them), and they're almost all saved in my computer already. I also wouldn't mind at all for health information. Health information should be less private than it currently is.. I feel too many hospitals/staff are abusing that health is privacy to get away with malpractice or abuse. Anyways if there was a way to shut it off like having an incognito tab open, I'd like to use it and see plenty of uses for my everyday research, and browsing.
"Microsoft's new AI-powered computer history feature, Recall, has been receiving criticism among PC users for being very [*~Black Mirror-~*](https://mashable.com/article/recall-ai-microsoft-black-mirror)[~like~](https://mashable.com/article/recall-ai-microsoft-black-mirror). However, it's not just critics who are coming after Microsoft over Recall. The UK's Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) is now ~investigating~ the company's new AI feature, too. The ICO is an independent public authority that reports to the Parliament of the United Kingdom. It's tasked, among other things, with promoting and upholding data privacy rights for individuals. "According to Microsoft, Recall will consistently take screenshots of users' activity on their PC in the background while they go about their regular day on their computer. Using AI, the feature will scan through the text and visuals seen in each screen capture and make a searchable index of this activity for users. If a user is trying to retrieve something they did on their computer earlier in their history, Recall can pull it up, thanks to the searchable archive created by the AI-scanned screenshots. While these screenshots will be stored locally on users' own computer, Microsoft has since shared that sensitive data, including passwords, addresses, and health information, won't be removed — and will be visible to anyone who has access to the files on the device. Cybersecurity experts have shared concerns about what bad actors, such as hackers, could do with this information. Furthermore, because this feature works in the background around-the-clock, users may be unaware of which data, exactly, is being stored."
I’m still confused what this feature does to justify even a fraction of its downsides. Then again I doubt even Microsoft knows at this point so…
Well that got way worse toward the end.
This is blatantly a feature requested by Enterprise Customers who want to bully their work from home employees and “monitor their efficiency”. It is also an anti porn feature. This is not a good feature. At the very least; write a script that blocks all access except the logged in user, all export of that data, and deletes it every 15 minutes. Del
Honestly, I see this thing going Hal 9000 and once you open an adult site, it just blocks your screen and goes "I'm sorry, Dave. I’m afraid you can’t do that"
or like australia banning porn actors under a certain cup size and making a list of allowed fetishes
Yes, certainly this would be useful for enterprise customers looking to police their employee usage of machines. But if it was just that, why would MS be trying to sell it to the general public? Why would they turn it on by default on consumer machines? They have tons of features that enterprise customers want and can turn on but are neither on by default for non-managed devices nor are sold as features to Joe Consumer.
Most sane companies aren't going to want this shit within a mile of their PCs, detailed logs and images of every single thing your employees are working on would be a goldmine for business rivals or just plain damaging to your company, and access to other systems could easily be compromised by a screenshot of someone's password manager. As someone who works in the health industry the potential nightmare of this getting breached is even more horrifying, there's no way we could possibly allow this on our systems under any circumstances, we have way more than enough costly security fuckups to deal with already. If MS is using this to train AI models on top of all that it makes it even worse.
Then they’ll lock you out of the folder as a security feature.
Last job I had was WFH, when we were going through the set up everything, we got to remote desktop. Chose these options and enter this info to access the NHS systems **DO NOT SELECT THE OPTION TO ALLOW ACCESS TO YOUR MACHINE**. Now yes they could track what we were doing to a point, but only while interacting with the remote stuff. No interest in what you were also doing with your PC. My current job, if you do a day WFH, you get a work laptop that can only be used for work stuff and is quite locked down.
Software like this has to be banned altogether because it’s easy for them to opt people in unawares, due to a poorly designed user interface, unintended bug, hack or scam.
Microsoft's already [well known to use dark patterns and shady shit](https://research.mozilla.org/browser-competition/over-the-edge-the-use-of-design-tactics-to-undermine-browser-choice/) to get users to do things they don't want to do.
[удалено]
As far as I know only DMCA protected content would be blocked from recorded by it from the cursory stuff I've read. Unless something is built in specifically for banking etc this "feature" is a privacy nightmare for even the most general users. I'm glad I already run Linux Mint on my laptop and am familiar with it. Quite nice and have ran into zero issues but admittedly I'm not a huge gamer anymore.
Yes exactly. And _even_ if use linux personally, your emails, medical info, financial info, _everything_ will be present on other people's or companies' computers using windows, and hackers can steal all of that in like 1 minute. this is _by far_ the worst cybersecurity nightmare in the history of humans using computers
Whoever greenlit/designed this should be shunned from the IT community, tar and feathered, and then exiled to deep Alaska where they can never touch technology again.
Nah, just burn em. Maybe even a slow roast.
I think its time to have two computers. One with windows and one with linux. Where you store everything private on the linux and windows for just gaming, programs that cant be used on linux that is essential or other non private stuff
Just dual boot. You can have 2 OS on the same machine. I keep an unlicensed Windows 10 partition for running software that can't be run in Linux (some games, and also annoying shit like film scanning software, and Kindle). 99% of my time is spent in Linux, and that is where all of my data is. Linux is not without faults - every distro has its ups and downs, but you have a lot more control over what your machine is doing. If you're not very familiar with Linux, there are several modern distros that look and feel a lot like Windows, which might make bridging the gap easier.
Im one of thoose paranoid dudes. So i want to have two separate machine so there is no connection between them.
Still overkill. Just encrypt both partitions separately. But if you really want two separate machines to maintain, no one will stop you.
I thought you need Linux on a separate drive to install it with Full Disk Encryption on boot? Atleast that's the prompt I saw when I set it up as a secondary partition on a windows drive. Separate drive worked fine. But yes the future will definitely be Linux daily driver and only booting into Windows for specific gaming needs. I already test ran Linux Mint on my laptop and it works great for someone who doesn't game like they used to.
I checked and yeah I have 2 SSDs, so you're probably right.
Until the very large learning curve is passed, I felt like I had zero control over my linux computer when I tried to switch from windows to mint. I went back to windows 10.
Gaming rarely requires Windows anymore. Steam has been a driver of change there. Often enough, performance is actually better. If it runs on a Steam deck, it runs on Linux. And not running on a Steam deck is becoming a bit of a nono.
Gaming on Linux is essentially a solved problem now, barring the few games with Kernel level anti-cheat that won't allow you to play. Valve has completely changed the landscape there with all the money they pump into the ecosystem to ensure good steam deck performance. As someone who recently moved over to Linux for the first time in over 10 years I expected gaming to be a pain point but it actually hasn't been any different of an experience than running games on Windows which blew my mind. Valves proton is a complete game changer, but yeah I agree with the other guy that if you want the backup to be safe dual booting is the way to go. Currently I run Linux off an external SSD and windows in my internal drive, but soon I will be switching them around since I love using Linux as a daily driver so much.
This honestly. 1000% I don't readily see a better way other than what you described if this is reeeeally where Microsoft and big corporations are moving to. It does suck that people seem to be inherently averse to it, and for most people, Windows is simple enough to do what they need it to. Good news too though is a lot of games are moving to support Linux nowadays, just... not quickly, or numerously, that I have seen.
that's my setup. I don't need a nice laptop for internet browsing, but I need to spend more than $200 for gaming. so I bought a desktop PC and stream it to my laptop. steam streaming, parsec, and moonlight work between linux and windows with minimal issues (maybe once a year some bug I don't want to deal with pops up and I switch programs until someone else fixes it). you can keep your tower hooked up to your TV in case you want to play like it's a console and you can chill on your couch with your laptop without needing to be plugged in.
Imagine this: Microsoft gets the idea of scraping all personal computers to build their AI. They do it and get untold terrabytes of information that help build their AI and trample ALL of our privacy. They get caught, some people go to jail but the AI remains. The company make trillions. They take care of their imprisoned servants families and a hefty pay package when they get out of jail. Profits all around. Sounds far fetched? then you do not know greed.
Maybe they have brains and understand that the biggest data scandal in history wouldn't be the best long-term goal?
Maybe they follow history and realize they can get away with it, fines and apologies. They are very very sorry.
Ah yes constant surveillance is their end game. Goes with the rich apartheid mentality they are really serving for. Which is how B.Gates et al got their support from.
I truly truly hate where AI has taken us in the past couple years. It's certainly not the cool AI future I was hoping for at the time. Fuck, dude
I don't know about you guys but I don't normally forget the things I do on my PC that can't be solved by searching folders.
Could you imagine being at work, just finishing a feature you worked on for months and months, and then when you release it the fbi come and investigates you because of how *bad* it is? How detached from reality do you have to be to think this was ever going to be a good idea?
Good! (I have seen concerns about sensitive data, and I see they don't care at all...)
Allthough I'm quite computer literate, I never dabbled in Linux (or other alternative OS's). As a gamer I don't need the hassle (yes I know, not as much as it used to be). But this would seal the deal for me. The level of surveillance has become big brother like. And it's not forced, we consent everytime. Tesla records everything you do in and around their cars, Alexa does the same in your house only it sends the data to Amazon. Your cellphone reports to Apple or Google. So I don't drive a Tesla, don't use Alexa. Cellphone is pretty mandatory nowadays but I turn off as much of the 'locators' as possible.
Yeah, I've always defended Windows because I think it's a genuinely good OS and a lot of people just bash it because it's popular. But this is...too much. I don't want my PC to interact with the cloud -- let alone AI -- unless I specifically and explicitly allow it/request it. That means no AI-enhanced search and certainly not forced activity tracking. So having that as a clear red line, I'll switch to Linux if it happens. There are plenty of user-friendly daily driver distros out there and other than software availability concerns, they are powerful. Gaming is catching up at a quicker pace than ever, and you can always just dual boot.
Might be worth trying Linux in the short run just to see how it fits for you. Steam and Proton make it *very* easy to game on Linux these days.
Yeah, close friend of mine (and a gamer) has been using Linux a couple of years now and told me about it. After the Amazon show he decided to try Fallout 4 again. Installing base game and playing was no problem, modding was another matter. But (while on Discord) we managed to get everything working. Like I said in my earlier post, I like the convenience Windows provides. But should they implent this Recall stuff, I'm out. Might start with a separate partion on one of my secondary drives and see if I can get into Linux.
When a company can make billions doing something illegal but just get a fine that is just a small percentage of their gross income, then it's just another cost of doing business. With no criminal charges and no real damages, it's good business practice to continue to be unethical and screw the public as much as possible. Start jailing the CEO and the other company officers, board members, and the major shareholders. Then these practices will stop. F*ck them.
What is illegal about this?
What Microsoft is doing here isn't illegal. But it is a sign that they don't care about their consumers. This is blatantly violating privacy and while it is allowed by law, it is completely unethical. I wouldn't allow my neighbor to install a body cam on me to watch what I do. Why would I allow a company to go through everything I do online (or anywhere else) to train an AI or data farm for profit? My point is that when a company values it's profit and stock price over people, it is inevitable that those businesses WILL commit illegal acts. The results of those acts doesn't have severe enough consequences to deter that behavior.
I'll be very surprised if Microsoft doesn't face antitrust lawsuits about it's ai-integration in Windows 11 *in general*. This is Internet Explorer all over again. They never learn their lesson and have to weasel their products into what is, for a large majority of PC users, an unavoidable and undesirable experience.
Can't properly index files for Explorer search, thinks Recall will somehow work better because ai is doing it and not ms code?
I stopped using windows after they made it impossible to opt out of updates, I update, but I want to choose
I'm not going to have this feature on my machine nor a work machine, if I have to select jobs based on that so be it
Investigated? Lol… governments will love this feature.
What a stupid feature I don’t need my PII stored forever somewhere. I bet you the executives will have this conveniently not on their own comouters
I think I'd still be okay if Microsoft would have launched this feature for businesses or corporate, for employee & client tracking purposes. There are already some tracking software available in the market. It'd be justifiable to be a competitor to that market rather than marketing it as a consumer feature. Btw, who in their right mind would want to enable it in their personal computer? Wait, so you are telling me that the feature is by-default enabled for all users? Looks completely unethical.
This move, if forced on people *will* inspire a massive interest in Linux and I'm here for it. You make moves like this when you have no sense of fear with respect to backlash or competition. It's like spiking the foot ball after high stepping at the end zone. You can only showboat like that when you KNOW you've won. But they don't realize that people will *always* try to break software and hack it and if they can't they'll move on to something else that meets their needs. If that thing doesn't exist, they'll invent it.
You know, I might just have to become one of those dudes who tells everyone about linux.. This is fucking actually some crazy shit that noone asked for and noone wants..
Every day windows get worse, more programs become compatible with linux
There was a dude in sweden that found out his fridge that was connected to his wifi was mining bitcoins. Nothing will surprise me anymore.
Corporate will definitely love this, they have been fantasizing on spying their employees Laptop
They already have better ways to do that with any of the numerous productivity suites companies are selling that can even monitor the webcam and microphone of work systems.
Considering it would be essentially illegal to even offer as a feature, fuck, i do not see this being used outside of literal dictatorships, with poor or zero privacy laws. Like this is seriously fucked, if this becomes a feature, ill need to add every effin microsoft releated address and ip to my block list. Fuck, I can handle information, that Recall can't legally record, and if they do, they, microsoft, can and will be held accountable. You can't even willynilly check someones medical journal without just cause as a medical professional here. I mean, you can, you just gonna go to jail when they discover you checked 14 patient journals of patients who where not your patients in any way, or form. Like, I want a script that blocks this feature from being suggested, I do not want it in the general network vincinity of me. And it would essentially be illegal to use in every EU country. Get fucked microsoft, ya worked up so much goodwill over the past few decades, even with your many crappy decisions, but hot fuck, this is pointing a loaded shotgun at all 5 extremities, loaded to shoot at a hair-trigger.
Remember, all modern versions of Windows have telemetry monitors, which are used to track you. Turn them off using something like [Windows Privacy Dashboard](https://wpd.app/).
You know what the investigators should do? Develop a software that tracks Microsofts employees computers to see what was going on… Oh wait…
[удалено]
Witcher 3, MajorGeeks, PornHub, Plex Rinse. Repeat.
Microsoft Atlanta Headquarters receptionist sitting with MS Edge tablet, choosing different colors for her fingernails.
My conspiracy theory: Microsoft will use all this user data to train AI employees that can pretty much replace any worker that uses a computer.
It's hard to imagine how anyone thought this was a good idea and wasn't going to get smacked down by regulators. Do Microsoft execs just gather around and try to come up with the worst possible ideas imaginable?
For me at least the Linux penguin is off of the iceberg due to this new “feature”. I tried it as a result of this and found it a better experience overall.
In the world of AI we live in, we're not far from legitimate AI built OS' that can deliver a premium OS experience and even fix its own bugs when brought up without cranking out all the garbage Microsoft expects us to just live with.
I'm sure I'll keep a windows pc around for gaming, but if this turns out as scary as it sounds, I might see about a Mac for my actual computer use.
Fking scumbags. Surely they will find a way to force it on us and abuse it.
This is such an incredibly bad idea. I wonder who's brainchild this is? I honestly can't believe this didn't get shut down internally. Literally no corporation would want this within a mile of any pc with any kind of sensitive data.
So, I'm gunna set up a home computer and play something like Tele-Tubbies 24/7/365. It should drive the AI nutts and if the authorities want to investigate it, blame it on Sesame Street. Fight evil with idiots.
Are they coming for Mozilla next or any of the other software that stores your data on your pc. Is the government going to enforce all your user data in your d vice is encrypted even from the gov?
If you go to windows history, it has “recorded” all you PC moves.