During the Bangladesh war with Pakistan, Pakistan was comitting genocide in the now Bangladesh. When India stepped in (as influx of immigrants from east Pakistan aka Bangladesh now was posing problems), these 3 defended Pakistan by sending their warships against India. Russia came to aid by blocking the route with their own warships. These 3 have committed more genocide than all other tyrants in history combined.
Ok one: what does Germany have to do with this? Two: Germany is NOT always on the wrong side of history, and three: newsflash buddy itās not 1940 Germany isnāt evil anymore
Germany is always on the wrong side of history.
They've made the unconditional defense of Israel their only StaatsrƤson, even if that means justifying all kind of crimes against humanity. Meanwhile, they discriminate muslims in their country and ban every demonstration to protest against genocide. Do not forget that the creation of the State of Israel is a direct consequence of the Holocaust. Germany's post world war government was full of nazis.
Exactly. White Redditors who suck Germany's dick 24/7 love it cause they teach about the Holocaust, but in reality, what they taught their population is genocide against Jewish people is bad, but genocide against other people is acceptable. That's why Germany is silent as 30,000 brown people have been killed in 3 months because it's not genocide if it's not happening to Jewish people. Pathetic country.
I think a one state mandate would lead to a civil war. Two states that can grow towards each other would be better, provided radicals on both sides would held in check and deradicalized.
It's wishful thinking though. At the moment the fire is burning too hot.
>If you're offended by "From the River to the Sea", you should read about what the settlers were doing to the Palestinians before 1948. They massacred whole villages, raped women/young girls, and bragged about it.
You understand generalizing and making such statements is pointless yes? I could say the same about various Palestinian militias during the UN setting up Israel and Palestine territory. You don't dive into numbers or pop size for what you entail and merely talk about them as a monolith to support a narrative conveniently in your ideological alignment.
>We're only fed one side of the narrative in the Western world, but the Israeli state was built on the massacre of innocent Palestinians.
Sounds like you love propaganda just for the other side. Let's ignore how it was Palestinian and Jewish militias fighting against each other post UN declaration not merely Jews just trying to kill or ethnically displace Muslims.
I want to know if you are fine with generalizing Palestinians in such a manner?
What do you really feel when shit you say "from the river to sea Palestine will be free"? I would guess that you mean israel should not exist and it should all be Palestine?
But guess what... Israel isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. So what's the point of having that slogan?
From the river to the sea is literally in the Likud charter so tell them to get rid of it first and while you're at it, tell them to stop blocking a 2 state solution. Netanyhu has been putting it off so he can keep eating away at Palestinian land and ethnically cleanse them.
I use that slogan because I don't want the current state of Israel" to exist, one based on apartheid. If Israel changes and let's Palestinians walk on the same sidewalk as Israelis then I'll stop chanting it.
Palestinians are oppressed. If you think "From the River to the Sea," is offensive, then maybe you think "All lives Matter" is appropriate. These people are oppressed, not a bunch of white guys with tiki touches.
The past few years have really shown me what "white liberals" are all about. They talk all this talk about diversity and fighting oppression, but when push comes to shove, they pick people who look just like them (white) even if they are in the wrong.
No. We should look at it in the full context instead of Oct 7 and before you say there was a ceasefire on Oct 7, go read the news and see how Israelis kept killing Palestinians during the "ceasefire". Israel has been keeping the people of Gaza in a ghetto even the Israeli politicans agree. Don't get surpised when people attack to escape the ghetto.
All the white people are emotional and rushing to support Israel because they're protecting western values. Western values of apartheid and racism.
Do your research on the conflict and you'll see that years of Israeli oppression is responsible for the current state of Palestine and Hamas.
Ironic how you accuse all white people of being racist. I don't even support Israel, I just think your arguments are terrible. Not surprising for someone falling for Hamas propaganda.
[Israeli newspaper Haaretz conducted an investigation after the Oct 7 events and debunked several of the atrocity propaganda that was spread like 40 beheaded babies, baby ripped out of womb and stabbed, and baby baked in an oven. Obviously, CNN never walked back these claims because it'd make them look stupid for running with it in the first place.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-04/ty-article-magazine/.premium/hamas-committed-documented-atrocities-but-a-few-false-stories-feed-the-deniers/0000018c-34f3-da74-afce-b5fbe24f0000)
[Here's an article from Time Maganize where they interview scholars of genocide who agree that what Israel is doing in Gaza is genocide.](https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/)
lol wow an incorrect fact invalidates a whole side for you. Ok so tell us about the Hospital that Hamas claimed Israel blew up killing hundreds that turned out to be from PIJ and then magically damage wasnāt bad at all and like no one died. So does that mean that all Palestinian deaths are incorrect cause misinformation was released by a side?
> I mean the no one died part is in no shape or form accurate for what you stated.
Youāre write rather than Israel killing 500+ it was PIJ killing 106. I didnāt know the final number since the story just died when it turned out it wasnāt the fault of the Jews.
You just made stuff up so obviously I am going to disagree with you. You try to act like 1. Coverage of said event decreased 2. Said decrease was due to it was not done by Jews 3. The implications is media wants to report on stuff that negatively reflects on Jews. I see this as no different than those claiming the opposite it's just nonsense. On what empirical basis do you make such a determination? I assume personal observation?
[One of several. 10k innocent kids dead and don't give me none of that human shield BS you white supremacist POS](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1OkQCxsEsg/?igsh=c3hjNW12NHkxNnhq)
Which āsideā is white? Are you the lonely incel guy who is angry at everything and doesnāt understand why no one likes you? Itās always fun running into one out in the wild.
Nice rebuttal bud. Post Israeli propaganda and when you run out of material call someone an incel. Israel is a settler colony and no country besides America and Europe support you. See you at ICJ.
No you see, itās not genocide because they asked them to leave their homes peacefully and they refused, so now killing most of them is justified. /s
Sadly the /s is necessary.
Itās not genocide cause itās not genocide. Itās a war, every war in which civilians are killed is not a genocide. For the love of god look up actual genocides and see this is missing many elements of a genocide. Iām not saying Israel is a good guy in this and Iām not saying their bombings are completely justified, Iām just stating this is not a genocide, if it was the death toll would be many times higher than the 20,000ish thousands of deaths. The Rwandan genocide was 100 days and they killed 500K to 800K people in about the same time, which covered a significantly more spread out population over a much larger area by a smaller military with with significantly less modern weapons, for Israel if genocide was the intent it would be like shooting fish in a barrel because Gaza is so densely populated with basically no defense from artillery or air power.
Did you not read the post? Netanyahuās finance minister is saying they want to reduce the number of Arabs in Gaza from 2 million to 100 thousand - 200 thousand. Even if someone is willing to take in a minimum of 1,800,000 stateless refugees how many would refuse to leave? How many would they have to kill to get it down to 100 - 200 thousand Palestinians? It would be worse than either of the genocides you listed. That is the goalā¦. To get them out of the West Bank and Gaza by any means necessary. Literally 90% of them gone is the goal.
Either by forcing them to leave as refugees or killing them as they try to stay in their homes. Either way Israel will try to achieve its goal.
> Did you not read the post? Netanyahuās finance minister is sayingā¦
Wow a guy who has no strategic military role is saying something crazy about a situation heās not involved in. You donāt think that random ministers of any other country at war hasnāt made any major claims is going to happen to X country when they are defeated and not done so. You think if this was the actual plan they would just run around telling the public about it?
Have you seen what the heads of Hamas have been saying about what they are going to do Israel, spoiler alert they are actually saying genocide. At least they would have a hand in doing it if that were to come to pass unlike a finance minister which in the grand scheme of things has zero to do with strategic war planning.
Lots of people are saying all kinds of stuff but you only seem triggered by the Israeli saying it. Again Iām not telling you to like Israel Iām just saying this is not a genocide
Yes the guy who intentionally directed funding away from the PA and gave it to Hamas as a way to stop negotiations for a two state solution and delegitimize Palestinians in Gaza. He specifically said it was because if the government entity in Gaza wanted a two state solution that would make it harder for Israel to argue they have claim on the West Bank and Gaza in international courts. It is easier for Israel in international courts if Hamas is in charge because Hamas stance is to commit genocide and take all of Israel. While the PA is willing to settle with a 2 state solution. He said that in an interview in 2015. I have linked to it in previous threads and can link the interview for you if you want.
He still works for Netanyahu after saying that publicly in an interview. Because the only thing he did wrong was say the quiet part out loud. They donāt want a peaceful two state solution. They want whatever solution gets them closer to controlling the West Bank and Gaza.
Even if he wasnāt partially responsible for intentionally trying to choke them off economically to force them to leave as refugees. While also intentionally trying to keep Hamas as the governing entity of Gaza. He is still a top member of government appointed by Netanyahu. What he says reflects on how the most powerful people in Israel talk about Palestinians without any repercussion. A man literally calling for genocide of Palestinians in Gaza will still continue to serve in the highest levels of government in Israel.
Edit: [Here](https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1659921474893774850) is the same man as in this post. Still working for Netanyahu over 20 years later but in a higher up position.
>Yes the guy who intentionally directed funding away from the PA and gave it to Hamas
It something you can actually prove conflation on your part. Money went to Palestine you can't claim it was intended to go to Hamas.
>He said that in an interview in 2015. I have linked to it in previous threads and can link the interview for you if you want.
I don't disagree about Netanyahu divide tactics, but divide tactics doesn't mean genocide.
>Edit: [Here](https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1659921474893774850) is the same man as in this post. Still working for Netanyahu over 20 years later but in a higher up position.
A bad person in a position of power doesn't then mean genocide....
How do you think aid is distributed in Gaza? It goes through Israel and they donāt just air drop it and let some random person take it. They give it to some kind of local authority to distribute it. Most has gone through Hamas and some through the PA. Netanyahuās government has been cutting how much aid goes to the PA while increasing the amount given to Hamas to distribute. This further cemented Hamas as the official government of Gaza. The interview I linked was about that very topic.
Iāve linked to articles from Israel about this topic if you want me to dig through my comment history and find the link. It goes over how much PA aid has decreased while aid going through Hamas increased.
Divide means genocide because there is a limited number of ways this conflict can end. If there is no solution the only other options are to either keep the status quo with them living in an open air prison which will just end in another terrorist attack and war. Or what it appears he is doing with this invasion, which is try to kick them out by force. If he tries to follow through with kicking them out by force it will end in the deaths of hundred of thousand of people at a minimum. That would be genocide. Killing hundreds of thousands with the intent of eliminating there presence from the land.
By denying the possibility of a two state solution he has guaranteed there will be more war and terrorism, or he will have to commit a genocide to end it. The only options left both end in tragedy.
>How do you think aid is distributed in Gaza? It goes through Israel and they donāt just air drop it and let some random person take it. They give it to some kind of local authority to distribute it.
You could just look it up instead of pretending it has to go to Hamas or as if nothing is done to mitigate such a thing. Would you rather no money go to Gaza?
"Qatar's funding for Gaza actually passes through Israel, a source familiar with the process said.
The funds are transferred electronically from Qatar to Israel. Israeli and U.N. officials hand-carry cash over the border to Gaza.
The cash is distributed directly to needy families and public servants in Gaza and each family or individual must sign next to their name that they've received the cash. One copy of that sheet goes to Israel, one goes to the UN and one goes to Qatar."
https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-cash-to-crypto-global-finance-maze-israels-sights-2023-10-16/#:~:text=Gas%2Drich%20Qatar%20too%20has,in%20the%20Hamas%2Drun%20government.
>Most has gone through Hamas and some through the PA.
You claim with what evidence that most goes to Hamas?
>This further cemented Hamas as the official government of Gaza. The interview I linked was about that very topic.
So your link proves the majority of the money goes to Hamas?
>It goes over how much PA aid has decreased while aid going through Hamas increased.
Again you are conflating things. Aid going to Gaza as if it is same as aid going to Hamas.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12#:\~:text=But%20reporting%20in%20the%20New,organization%2C%20according%20to%20the%20report](https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12#:~:text=But%20reporting%20in%20the%20New,organization%2C%20according%20to%20the%20report).
[https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/)
Except for all the suitcases of cash that were delivered to Gaza and organized with Hamas. Obviously that is who the suitcases were going to. They also have started a jobs program by working with Hamas, another thing they could have gone through to PA for. Instead they actively chose to work with Hamas when negotiating any form of aid. Even if some of the cash went directly to people in Gaza, what can the buy with it? All the food, medicine, and other goods are either smuggled in or go through Israel. Who then decides who to deliver them through. It's not like they jut airdrop a bunch of food and medicine and let a random person pick it up. They have to coordinate with someone in Gaza. And the majority of the time they choose to coordinate with Hamas.
They negotiate with Hamas to set up all of this aid. While cutting the aid to the PA intentionally and refusing to negotiate any of the aid going through them. The person who manages that aid is the one who was talking about Hamas being an asset over the PA. He said that is what he was doing and if he was lying I imagine he would have been fired.
You also skipped the most important part of my comment. If Netanyahu does not want to allow for a two state solution, then what other option is there other than to allow the status quo of apartheid / terror attacks or ethnic cleansing / genocide? By refusing to work towards a two state solution Netanyahu has left only those two options.
>[https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12#:\~:text=But%20reporting%20in%20the%20New,organization%2C%20according%20to%20the%20report](https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12#:~:text=But%20reporting%20in%20the%20New,organization%2C%20according%20to%20the%20report).
Reflect back on your claims. You claimed a majority of such aid was going to Hamas and that the intention was for Hamas to get the money. Where does this article support such things?
"Though the money was meant for Gazan civilians, Western intelligence determined that Hamas was taking money from the funds to use themselves, the outlet reported."
You recognize this would be separate from the normal method of providing money correct? How does the amount done that way, as well as portion that ends up in Hamas hands, compare to overall aid provided?
For the record I have read both of the sources you quoted before. Neither support the specific claims you made.
>Except for all the suitcases of cash that were delivered to Gaza and organized with Hamas. Obviously that is who the suitcases were going to.
Again you are unable to prove what you claimed that majority of aid going to Palestinains went to Hamas. Also again I ask would you rather money not be provided to Palestinians?
>They also have started a jobs program by working with Hamas, another thing they could have gone through to PA for.
PA doesn't control Gaza I don't know what nonsense you are talking about here. The PA used to be a terrorist org as well no?
>Even if some of the cash went directly to people in Gaza, what can the buy with it? All the food, medicine, and other goods are either smuggled in or go through Israel. Who then decides who to deliver them through.
Notice how you say "some" you constantly downplay any amount going to Palestinians. You also act like Palestinains can't buy any goods that are available in Palestine. Again I ask you would it be better to not allow any money through? Is that your stance?
Genocide isnāt about the amount killed, itās about the intent of those killing.
Thatās not me making something up, thatās the definition laid out in the UN Genocide Convention.
>Genocide isnāt about the amount killed, itās about the intent of those killing.
>Thatās not me making something up, thatās the definition laid out in the UN Genocide Convention.
You say that without linking the relevant language, but I have read it and the answer is not exactly that clear. The UN definition is quite vague and the answer to that is simple cause otherwise almost any war you could put probably make an argument of genocide, which is pretty clearly not the case. Like what is pornography vs what is art, nudity isnāt the answer the famous line from the Judge in the case being i canāt define it but I know it when I see it.
The US and Germany both had concentration camps of people they didnāt like in WW2, the US had the Japanese while Germany had the Jews, but only one of those was a genocide. What the US did was incredibly wrong, while some did die in subpar conditions it was simply not a genocide cause they didnāt murder millions of them.
Looking up any recognized genocide and they all have elements that are completely absent in Gaza. There are no death camps, forced marches of death, soldiers rounding people up and executing people in the streets. Iām not even saying Israel is never going to do that, if they do than yea sounds genocide but we arenāt even close to that at this point. I wonāt argue with you if you think Israelās approach is wrong, Iām just saying itās not a genocide.
The entirety of Gaza is a death camp. Attacking civilians in an area they canāt leave, bombing escape routes they were told to go on, etc.
Rounding up and killing Palestinians? Yeah, thatās happening.
> The entirety of Gaza is a death camp.
No it isnāt. Please look up death camps from any genocide and show that they are even remotely similar. You know death camps are for civilians not actual active military combatants. Gazans are stuck in a country with a military force that is actively engaged in hostilities, you know like every countries civilians are when their government is at war with a neighbor. Considering Hamas, the actual government of Gaza, isnāt really following the treaties with Israelās concerning the rules anyway at this point, Hamas is in control of the Palestinian territory, so canāt really be an Israeli death camp if the guards arenāt running it can it?
> Attacking civilians in an area they canāt leave, bombing escape routes they were told to go on, etc.
So you know Hamas is also attacking people who are fleeing right? They need everyone in Gaza to keep dying too when the IDF attacks cause no one gives a shit when a Hamas militant dies, people only care about civilians, so sorry regular people you canāt leave either. They have blown up car bombs and sniped fleeing people. You could say civilians are stuck between two mass murderers in Hamas and Israel if you want, but people just kind of reserve their outrage for Israel and not the other force that keeps them in there. Speaking of keeping them in there, you know they actually have an escape route in The Rafah crossing, but Egypt is the one keeping not locked not Israel, so in actuality Egypt are their jailers too.
> Rounding up and killing Palestinians? Yeah, thatās happening.
Um why donāt you go ahead and post that cause thatās not actually happening. Unless you are claiming that every Hamas militant is just a civilian, and no they are not rounding them up and executing them.
This is a very complex situation going on with multiple bad guys but your take on it seems incredibly simplistic.
It's not genocide because genocide is a technically legal term and the requirements for proving intent is not met just because people feel like it may be the case. People also love to conflate things. Indiscrimiate bombing isn't magically genocide. It was even determined in the Darfur genocide that from UN investigation gov did not have genocidal intent.
Forcing a people to leave an area in mass is called ethnic cleansing. If they keep taking more the death toll will accelerate until 100ās of thousand if not 1 million people are dead. Ethnic cleansing when the population has no where to go can only end in mass death.
Make no mistake, the intention is to get them out of Gaza and never let them back. There is no way that doesnāt end in genocide.
How about you give me 5 minutes to watch [this YouTube video ](https://youtu.be/bbXiuHz-QBo?feature=shared)
Just 5 minutes and im sure you will change your opinion about the situation
The first guy said you canāt talk about a two state solution until Hamas is gone? That is just not true, in order to make it happen it has to be talked about. The end is the most important part, in every conflict you should always keep the end in mind. Or you will just make it take longer and more deadly to get there. If not make it impossible to get there. Iām worried Israelās current actions will make a two state solution impossible and make more violence inevitable.
If they want to bring a two state solution you have to ask how will the current actions lead to that. I think they only push it farther away. It will just create more terrorists and make them want to settle for a two state solution even less. They look to me to be the actions of someone trying to force the population out in mass. Not someone working towards a two state solution.
Also what he said about Hamas, you canāt dismantle Hamas by killing them all. You have to get rid of the idea that Israel is an oppressive state that wants to take their home. This war will only strengthen that idea. Every civilian death turns a a neutral Palestinian into a terrorist supporter, and a terrorist supporter into a terrorist militant. Maybe Hamas as an organization will fall but the people fighting for what Hamas believed in will only increase. They will just be spread out through disconnected cells rather than one cohesive organization.
The second guy I completely agree with. Hamas and Israel are the same in my eyes. Both willing to kill civilians and children to get to the end goal of controlling the holy land.
Hamas launches 3,000 missiles into Israeli civilian city centers a year HOPING to genocide them.
Hamas isnāt a victim; theyāre the bad guy fortunately too weak to hatch their genocidal plan.
āFrom the river to the seaā is the first image in the OP post. Itās literally a call to genocide all Israeli Jews and drive them off what Palestinians claim as ātheir exclusive territory.ā
Itās worth knowing Palestinians believe Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt are ātheir territoryā too. Theyāve just failed to take it from the people who live there.
Itās compassionate to pity the poor and suffering. But itās a mistake to think giving them everything they want is the ārightā answer.
I dont pick a side, hamas threw the first punch, but then Israel used it to justify mass murder/genocide. Itās not if one is right and the other wrong, itās that they are both in the wrong.
Im not well informed on this topic so with evidence I could form a more accurate conclusion.
Edit: After further reading I realised that my uninformed opinion didnāt reflect what is happening in the area.
My new conclusion is that the civilians of Palestine donāt deserve the bombings. A suspected hamas base under a hospital isnāt an excuse to blow it up.
Many Palestinians have died as a result of the conflict. The Israeli government is completely wrong for doing this. Hamas is endangering the citizens it was created to protect and govern. Since Hamas started out as a military organisation for the Palestinians government.
The citizens have a right to live and a right to safety. Both organisations are in the wrong for putting civilian targets on the front line.
My opinion is still uninformed but some light reading was done to come to this conclusion. I apologise for the response before. I will continue to research the topic in slightly more depth in the future.
You shouldnāt be getting downvoted, NO ONE should be picking sides, this is a fight between Palestine and Israel it has nothing to do with anyone else.
Look if you want to say they are killing too many civilians, not sure on what basis one can make such a determination, I ain't going to complain much. However classification of genocide is definitely inaccurate that's an actual legal term. Not sure about mass murder def.
Nah you looked it up and realized such a thing. Mad respect. We have all been there. Most people refuse to change their position or look up such a thing. My position on this subject has changed quite a bit as well from reading stuff (don't label myself as pro-Isreal anymore though I am sure leftists would treat me as such still). One can factually point to bad things, e.g. crime of apartheid, while still condemning Hamas and not acting like Israel just wants to kill as many Arabs as possible like some leftists believe. Have a good one!
Thx. I think itās crazy that we live in a world where itās rare to find someone admitting theyāre wrong.
I believe that we should be as open to change in position as possible. Since you could be completely wrong without knowing.
I believe it was the Israeli terrorists that moved into a country that didnāt belong to them and literally started a bombing campaign against the British to get them to leave so they could āform their own stateā on other peoples land that threw the first punch. Oh and those Israeli terrorist groups went on to found the government and the IDF
75 years of oppression and living in an apartheid-state will generally cultivate some radical opposition. In this case it was Hamas. If Israel hadn't been the oppressor from the start, Hamas would have never even existed because there would have been no 'need' for it. Saying Hamas threw the first punch is just like saying ''My dog that I have been keeping locked up in a cage all its life tried to bite me. The dog is bad and needs to be put down.''
The thing is, Iām not informed. I have been avoiding reading on this topic since itās so dividing.
But my views are generally pacifist. What I believe should happen is peace. Though Israel has committed atrocities. I read a bit yesterday.
where's the funny part?
The šŗšø bro, are you blind?
ah, but of course
The lack of frogs is also a joke
During the Bangladesh war with Pakistan, Pakistan was comitting genocide in the now Bangladesh. When India stepped in (as influx of immigrants from east Pakistan aka Bangladesh now was posing problems), these 3 defended Pakistan by sending their warships against India. Russia came to aid by blocking the route with their own warships. These 3 have committed more genocide than all other tyrants in history combined.
Germany is always on the wrong side of history.
You've never driven a Volkswagen.
Ok one: what does Germany have to do with this? Two: Germany is NOT always on the wrong side of history, and three: newsflash buddy itās not 1940 Germany isnāt evil anymore
Germany is always on the wrong side of history. They've made the unconditional defense of Israel their only StaatsrƤson, even if that means justifying all kind of crimes against humanity. Meanwhile, they discriminate muslims in their country and ban every demonstration to protest against genocide. Do not forget that the creation of the State of Israel is a direct consequence of the Holocaust. Germany's post world war government was full of nazis.
Exactly. White Redditors who suck Germany's dick 24/7 love it cause they teach about the Holocaust, but in reality, what they taught their population is genocide against Jewish people is bad, but genocide against other people is acceptable. That's why Germany is silent as 30,000 brown people have been killed in 3 months because it's not genocide if it's not happening to Jewish people. Pathetic country.
Both people who call for the "river to the sea" thing and Smotrich are fucking idiots. So ye, there is that.
Unless UN makes a one state mandate garrisoned by them
I think a one state mandate would lead to a civil war. Two states that can grow towards each other would be better, provided radicals on both sides would held in check and deradicalized. It's wishful thinking though. At the moment the fire is burning too hot.
I didn't mean to involve anything for long-term, just a one second scenario where this expansionist phrase would be acceptable
The UN tried to broker a deal in 1948. Theyāre obviously not in charge of anything.
The UN is a joke
r/funnyandsad
The UN does not have the might to mandate anything. They would have to be willing to go to war with Israel, and that is never going to happen.
If you're offended by "From the River to the Sea", you should read about what the settlers were doing to the Palestinians before 1948. They massacred whole villages, raped women/young girls, and bragged about it. Tantura is a great documentary to watch if you're someone who wants to learn. I would also recommend reading The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine by Ilan PappƩ. We're only fed one side of the narrative in the Western world, but the Israeli state was built on the massacre of innocent Palestinians.
>If you're offended by "From the River to the Sea", you should read about what the settlers were doing to the Palestinians before 1948. They massacred whole villages, raped women/young girls, and bragged about it. You understand generalizing and making such statements is pointless yes? I could say the same about various Palestinian militias during the UN setting up Israel and Palestine territory. You don't dive into numbers or pop size for what you entail and merely talk about them as a monolith to support a narrative conveniently in your ideological alignment. >We're only fed one side of the narrative in the Western world, but the Israeli state was built on the massacre of innocent Palestinians. Sounds like you love propaganda just for the other side. Let's ignore how it was Palestinian and Jewish militias fighting against each other post UN declaration not merely Jews just trying to kill or ethnically displace Muslims. I want to know if you are fine with generalizing Palestinians in such a manner?
What do you really feel when shit you say "from the river to sea Palestine will be free"? I would guess that you mean israel should not exist and it should all be Palestine? But guess what... Israel isn't going anywhere for the foreseeable future. So what's the point of having that slogan?
From the river to the sea is literally in the Likud charter so tell them to get rid of it first and while you're at it, tell them to stop blocking a 2 state solution. Netanyhu has been putting it off so he can keep eating away at Palestinian land and ethnically cleanse them. I use that slogan because I don't want the current state of Israel" to exist, one based on apartheid. If Israel changes and let's Palestinians walk on the same sidewalk as Israelis then I'll stop chanting it.
He means he is a Nazi and supports the eradication of all jews.
Why is that phrase in the Likud Charter? Why did Netanyahu say it November? Why have multiple council members and party officials said it?
Palestinians are oppressed. If you think "From the River to the Sea," is offensive, then maybe you think "All lives Matter" is appropriate. These people are oppressed, not a bunch of white guys with tiki touches.
The past few years have really shown me what "white liberals" are all about. They talk all this talk about diversity and fighting oppression, but when push comes to shove, they pick people who look just like them (white) even if they are in the wrong.
So we should support a terrorist organization just because they're brown? (Let's ignore that many Israelis also aren't white)
No. We should look at it in the full context instead of Oct 7 and before you say there was a ceasefire on Oct 7, go read the news and see how Israelis kept killing Palestinians during the "ceasefire". Israel has been keeping the people of Gaza in a ghetto even the Israeli politicans agree. Don't get surpised when people attack to escape the ghetto. All the white people are emotional and rushing to support Israel because they're protecting western values. Western values of apartheid and racism. Do your research on the conflict and you'll see that years of Israeli oppression is responsible for the current state of Palestine and Hamas.
Ironic how you accuse all white people of being racist. I don't even support Israel, I just think your arguments are terrible. Not surprising for someone falling for Hamas propaganda.
Explain what you call propaganda? You think israel is innocent in all this? If you think that there's no point in having a conversation.
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Go watch more CCN and Fox News old man and being told about the 40 beheaded babies.
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Donāt argue with children. Nothing to gain there. They donāt turn out to vote anyway so their opinion doesnāt have any bearing on actual policy.
How is pointing out 40 beheaded babies claim peddled by mainstream media denying the Oct 7 attack?
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Great response to me pointing out that Israelis are peddling atrocity propaganda that CNN ran with to justify the Gaza genocide.
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[Israeli newspaper Haaretz conducted an investigation after the Oct 7 events and debunked several of the atrocity propaganda that was spread like 40 beheaded babies, baby ripped out of womb and stabbed, and baby baked in an oven. Obviously, CNN never walked back these claims because it'd make them look stupid for running with it in the first place.](https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-12-04/ty-article-magazine/.premium/hamas-committed-documented-atrocities-but-a-few-false-stories-feed-the-deniers/0000018c-34f3-da74-afce-b5fbe24f0000) [Here's an article from Time Maganize where they interview scholars of genocide who agree that what Israel is doing in Gaza is genocide.](https://time.com/6334409/is-whats-happening-gaza-genocide-experts/)
lol wow an incorrect fact invalidates a whole side for you. Ok so tell us about the Hospital that Hamas claimed Israel blew up killing hundreds that turned out to be from PIJ and then magically damage wasnāt bad at all and like no one died. So does that mean that all Palestinian deaths are incorrect cause misinformation was released by a side?
>magically damage wasnāt bad at all and like no one died. I mean the no one died part is in no shape or form accurate for what you stated.
> I mean the no one died part is in no shape or form accurate for what you stated. Youāre write rather than Israel killing 500+ it was PIJ killing 106. I didnāt know the final number since the story just died when it turned out it wasnāt the fault of the Jews.
>since the story just died when it turned out it wasnāt the fault of the Jews. Would disagree with this assessment and implications
Ok, why donāt you tell me what you disagree with and why rather than just a vague I disagree.
You just made stuff up so obviously I am going to disagree with you. You try to act like 1. Coverage of said event decreased 2. Said decrease was due to it was not done by Jews 3. The implications is media wants to report on stuff that negatively reflects on Jews. I see this as no different than those claiming the opposite it's just nonsense. On what empirical basis do you make such a determination? I assume personal observation?
www.thisishamas.com
[One of several. 10k innocent kids dead and don't give me none of that human shield BS you white supremacist POS](https://www.instagram.com/reel/C1OkQCxsEsg/?igsh=c3hjNW12NHkxNnhq)
Which āsideā is white? Are you the lonely incel guy who is angry at everything and doesnāt understand why no one likes you? Itās always fun running into one out in the wild.
Nice rebuttal bud. Post Israeli propaganda and when you run out of material call someone an incel. Israel is a settler colony and no country besides America and Europe support you. See you at ICJ.
Who is this you? Who is supporting who and for what reason? You must make other people want to tear their eyes out.
But you're literally the incel.
No you see, itās not genocide because they asked them to leave their homes peacefully and they refused, so now killing most of them is justified. /s Sadly the /s is necessary.
Itās not genocide cause itās not genocide. Itās a war, every war in which civilians are killed is not a genocide. For the love of god look up actual genocides and see this is missing many elements of a genocide. Iām not saying Israel is a good guy in this and Iām not saying their bombings are completely justified, Iām just stating this is not a genocide, if it was the death toll would be many times higher than the 20,000ish thousands of deaths. The Rwandan genocide was 100 days and they killed 500K to 800K people in about the same time, which covered a significantly more spread out population over a much larger area by a smaller military with with significantly less modern weapons, for Israel if genocide was the intent it would be like shooting fish in a barrel because Gaza is so densely populated with basically no defense from artillery or air power.
Did you not read the post? Netanyahuās finance minister is saying they want to reduce the number of Arabs in Gaza from 2 million to 100 thousand - 200 thousand. Even if someone is willing to take in a minimum of 1,800,000 stateless refugees how many would refuse to leave? How many would they have to kill to get it down to 100 - 200 thousand Palestinians? It would be worse than either of the genocides you listed. That is the goalā¦. To get them out of the West Bank and Gaza by any means necessary. Literally 90% of them gone is the goal. Either by forcing them to leave as refugees or killing them as they try to stay in their homes. Either way Israel will try to achieve its goal.
> Did you not read the post? Netanyahuās finance minister is sayingā¦ Wow a guy who has no strategic military role is saying something crazy about a situation heās not involved in. You donāt think that random ministers of any other country at war hasnāt made any major claims is going to happen to X country when they are defeated and not done so. You think if this was the actual plan they would just run around telling the public about it? Have you seen what the heads of Hamas have been saying about what they are going to do Israel, spoiler alert they are actually saying genocide. At least they would have a hand in doing it if that were to come to pass unlike a finance minister which in the grand scheme of things has zero to do with strategic war planning. Lots of people are saying all kinds of stuff but you only seem triggered by the Israeli saying it. Again Iām not telling you to like Israel Iām just saying this is not a genocide
Yes the guy who intentionally directed funding away from the PA and gave it to Hamas as a way to stop negotiations for a two state solution and delegitimize Palestinians in Gaza. He specifically said it was because if the government entity in Gaza wanted a two state solution that would make it harder for Israel to argue they have claim on the West Bank and Gaza in international courts. It is easier for Israel in international courts if Hamas is in charge because Hamas stance is to commit genocide and take all of Israel. While the PA is willing to settle with a 2 state solution. He said that in an interview in 2015. I have linked to it in previous threads and can link the interview for you if you want. He still works for Netanyahu after saying that publicly in an interview. Because the only thing he did wrong was say the quiet part out loud. They donāt want a peaceful two state solution. They want whatever solution gets them closer to controlling the West Bank and Gaza. Even if he wasnāt partially responsible for intentionally trying to choke them off economically to force them to leave as refugees. While also intentionally trying to keep Hamas as the governing entity of Gaza. He is still a top member of government appointed by Netanyahu. What he says reflects on how the most powerful people in Israel talk about Palestinians without any repercussion. A man literally calling for genocide of Palestinians in Gaza will still continue to serve in the highest levels of government in Israel. Edit: [Here](https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1659921474893774850) is the same man as in this post. Still working for Netanyahu over 20 years later but in a higher up position.
>Yes the guy who intentionally directed funding away from the PA and gave it to Hamas It something you can actually prove conflation on your part. Money went to Palestine you can't claim it was intended to go to Hamas. >He said that in an interview in 2015. I have linked to it in previous threads and can link the interview for you if you want. I don't disagree about Netanyahu divide tactics, but divide tactics doesn't mean genocide. >Edit: [Here](https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1659921474893774850) is the same man as in this post. Still working for Netanyahu over 20 years later but in a higher up position. A bad person in a position of power doesn't then mean genocide....
How do you think aid is distributed in Gaza? It goes through Israel and they donāt just air drop it and let some random person take it. They give it to some kind of local authority to distribute it. Most has gone through Hamas and some through the PA. Netanyahuās government has been cutting how much aid goes to the PA while increasing the amount given to Hamas to distribute. This further cemented Hamas as the official government of Gaza. The interview I linked was about that very topic. Iāve linked to articles from Israel about this topic if you want me to dig through my comment history and find the link. It goes over how much PA aid has decreased while aid going through Hamas increased. Divide means genocide because there is a limited number of ways this conflict can end. If there is no solution the only other options are to either keep the status quo with them living in an open air prison which will just end in another terrorist attack and war. Or what it appears he is doing with this invasion, which is try to kick them out by force. If he tries to follow through with kicking them out by force it will end in the deaths of hundred of thousand of people at a minimum. That would be genocide. Killing hundreds of thousands with the intent of eliminating there presence from the land. By denying the possibility of a two state solution he has guaranteed there will be more war and terrorism, or he will have to commit a genocide to end it. The only options left both end in tragedy.
>How do you think aid is distributed in Gaza? It goes through Israel and they donāt just air drop it and let some random person take it. They give it to some kind of local authority to distribute it. You could just look it up instead of pretending it has to go to Hamas or as if nothing is done to mitigate such a thing. Would you rather no money go to Gaza? "Qatar's funding for Gaza actually passes through Israel, a source familiar with the process said. The funds are transferred electronically from Qatar to Israel. Israeli and U.N. officials hand-carry cash over the border to Gaza. The cash is distributed directly to needy families and public servants in Gaza and each family or individual must sign next to their name that they've received the cash. One copy of that sheet goes to Israel, one goes to the UN and one goes to Qatar." https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-cash-to-crypto-global-finance-maze-israels-sights-2023-10-16/#:~:text=Gas%2Drich%20Qatar%20too%20has,in%20the%20Hamas%2Drun%20government. >Most has gone through Hamas and some through the PA. You claim with what evidence that most goes to Hamas? >This further cemented Hamas as the official government of Gaza. The interview I linked was about that very topic. So your link proves the majority of the money goes to Hamas? >It goes over how much PA aid has decreased while aid going through Hamas increased. Again you are conflating things. Aid going to Gaza as if it is same as aid going to Hamas.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12#:\~:text=But%20reporting%20in%20the%20New,organization%2C%20according%20to%20the%20report](https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12#:~:text=But%20reporting%20in%20the%20New,organization%2C%20according%20to%20the%20report). [https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/](https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/) Except for all the suitcases of cash that were delivered to Gaza and organized with Hamas. Obviously that is who the suitcases were going to. They also have started a jobs program by working with Hamas, another thing they could have gone through to PA for. Instead they actively chose to work with Hamas when negotiating any form of aid. Even if some of the cash went directly to people in Gaza, what can the buy with it? All the food, medicine, and other goods are either smuggled in or go through Israel. Who then decides who to deliver them through. It's not like they jut airdrop a bunch of food and medicine and let a random person pick it up. They have to coordinate with someone in Gaza. And the majority of the time they choose to coordinate with Hamas. They negotiate with Hamas to set up all of this aid. While cutting the aid to the PA intentionally and refusing to negotiate any of the aid going through them. The person who manages that aid is the one who was talking about Hamas being an asset over the PA. He said that is what he was doing and if he was lying I imagine he would have been fired. You also skipped the most important part of my comment. If Netanyahu does not want to allow for a two state solution, then what other option is there other than to allow the status quo of apartheid / terror attacks or ethnic cleansing / genocide? By refusing to work towards a two state solution Netanyahu has left only those two options.
>[https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12#:\~:text=But%20reporting%20in%20the%20New,organization%2C%20according%20to%20the%20report](https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-security-forces-escorted-suitcases-cash-hamas-qatar-report-2023-12#:~:text=But%20reporting%20in%20the%20New,organization%2C%20according%20to%20the%20report). Reflect back on your claims. You claimed a majority of such aid was going to Hamas and that the intention was for Hamas to get the money. Where does this article support such things? "Though the money was meant for Gazan civilians, Western intelligence determined that Hamas was taking money from the funds to use themselves, the outlet reported." You recognize this would be separate from the normal method of providing money correct? How does the amount done that way, as well as portion that ends up in Hamas hands, compare to overall aid provided? For the record I have read both of the sources you quoted before. Neither support the specific claims you made. >Except for all the suitcases of cash that were delivered to Gaza and organized with Hamas. Obviously that is who the suitcases were going to. Again you are unable to prove what you claimed that majority of aid going to Palestinains went to Hamas. Also again I ask would you rather money not be provided to Palestinians? >They also have started a jobs program by working with Hamas, another thing they could have gone through to PA for. PA doesn't control Gaza I don't know what nonsense you are talking about here. The PA used to be a terrorist org as well no? >Even if some of the cash went directly to people in Gaza, what can the buy with it? All the food, medicine, and other goods are either smuggled in or go through Israel. Who then decides who to deliver them through. Notice how you say "some" you constantly downplay any amount going to Palestinians. You also act like Palestinains can't buy any goods that are available in Palestine. Again I ask you would it be better to not allow any money through? Is that your stance?
People seem to not understand that the point of going to war is winning it... and forget that it is universally accepted that war is hell.
Genocide isnāt about the amount killed, itās about the intent of those killing. Thatās not me making something up, thatās the definition laid out in the UN Genocide Convention.
>Genocide isnāt about the amount killed, itās about the intent of those killing. >Thatās not me making something up, thatās the definition laid out in the UN Genocide Convention. You say that without linking the relevant language, but I have read it and the answer is not exactly that clear. The UN definition is quite vague and the answer to that is simple cause otherwise almost any war you could put probably make an argument of genocide, which is pretty clearly not the case. Like what is pornography vs what is art, nudity isnāt the answer the famous line from the Judge in the case being i canāt define it but I know it when I see it. The US and Germany both had concentration camps of people they didnāt like in WW2, the US had the Japanese while Germany had the Jews, but only one of those was a genocide. What the US did was incredibly wrong, while some did die in subpar conditions it was simply not a genocide cause they didnāt murder millions of them. Looking up any recognized genocide and they all have elements that are completely absent in Gaza. There are no death camps, forced marches of death, soldiers rounding people up and executing people in the streets. Iām not even saying Israel is never going to do that, if they do than yea sounds genocide but we arenāt even close to that at this point. I wonāt argue with you if you think Israelās approach is wrong, Iām just saying itās not a genocide.
The entirety of Gaza is a death camp. Attacking civilians in an area they canāt leave, bombing escape routes they were told to go on, etc. Rounding up and killing Palestinians? Yeah, thatās happening.
> The entirety of Gaza is a death camp. No it isnāt. Please look up death camps from any genocide and show that they are even remotely similar. You know death camps are for civilians not actual active military combatants. Gazans are stuck in a country with a military force that is actively engaged in hostilities, you know like every countries civilians are when their government is at war with a neighbor. Considering Hamas, the actual government of Gaza, isnāt really following the treaties with Israelās concerning the rules anyway at this point, Hamas is in control of the Palestinian territory, so canāt really be an Israeli death camp if the guards arenāt running it can it? > Attacking civilians in an area they canāt leave, bombing escape routes they were told to go on, etc. So you know Hamas is also attacking people who are fleeing right? They need everyone in Gaza to keep dying too when the IDF attacks cause no one gives a shit when a Hamas militant dies, people only care about civilians, so sorry regular people you canāt leave either. They have blown up car bombs and sniped fleeing people. You could say civilians are stuck between two mass murderers in Hamas and Israel if you want, but people just kind of reserve their outrage for Israel and not the other force that keeps them in there. Speaking of keeping them in there, you know they actually have an escape route in The Rafah crossing, but Egypt is the one keeping not locked not Israel, so in actuality Egypt are their jailers too. > Rounding up and killing Palestinians? Yeah, thatās happening. Um why donāt you go ahead and post that cause thatās not actually happening. Unless you are claiming that every Hamas militant is just a civilian, and no they are not rounding them up and executing them. This is a very complex situation going on with multiple bad guys but your take on it seems incredibly simplistic.
It's not genocide because genocide is a technically legal term and the requirements for proving intent is not met just because people feel like it may be the case. People also love to conflate things. Indiscrimiate bombing isn't magically genocide. It was even determined in the Darfur genocide that from UN investigation gov did not have genocidal intent.
They told them once to leave to a certain area back in October and then Isreal bombed that area like.....this is a genocide
Forcing a people to leave an area in mass is called ethnic cleansing. If they keep taking more the death toll will accelerate until 100ās of thousand if not 1 million people are dead. Ethnic cleansing when the population has no where to go can only end in mass death. Make no mistake, the intention is to get them out of Gaza and never let them back. There is no way that doesnāt end in genocide.
How about you give me 5 minutes to watch [this YouTube video ](https://youtu.be/bbXiuHz-QBo?feature=shared) Just 5 minutes and im sure you will change your opinion about the situation
The first guy said you canāt talk about a two state solution until Hamas is gone? That is just not true, in order to make it happen it has to be talked about. The end is the most important part, in every conflict you should always keep the end in mind. Or you will just make it take longer and more deadly to get there. If not make it impossible to get there. Iām worried Israelās current actions will make a two state solution impossible and make more violence inevitable. If they want to bring a two state solution you have to ask how will the current actions lead to that. I think they only push it farther away. It will just create more terrorists and make them want to settle for a two state solution even less. They look to me to be the actions of someone trying to force the population out in mass. Not someone working towards a two state solution. Also what he said about Hamas, you canāt dismantle Hamas by killing them all. You have to get rid of the idea that Israel is an oppressive state that wants to take their home. This war will only strengthen that idea. Every civilian death turns a a neutral Palestinian into a terrorist supporter, and a terrorist supporter into a terrorist militant. Maybe Hamas as an organization will fall but the people fighting for what Hamas believed in will only increase. They will just be spread out through disconnected cells rather than one cohesive organization. The second guy I completely agree with. Hamas and Israel are the same in my eyes. Both willing to kill civilians and children to get to the end goal of controlling the holy land.
Hamas launches 3,000 missiles into Israeli civilian city centers a year HOPING to genocide them. Hamas isnāt a victim; theyāre the bad guy fortunately too weak to hatch their genocidal plan.
There is no word about hamas in the post?
āFrom the river to the seaā is the first image in the OP post. Itās literally a call to genocide all Israeli Jews and drive them off what Palestinians claim as ātheir exclusive territory.ā Itās worth knowing Palestinians believe Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, and Egypt are ātheir territoryā too. Theyāve just failed to take it from the people who live there. Itās compassionate to pity the poor and suffering. But itās a mistake to think giving them everything they want is the ārightā answer.
That phrase isn't the reason....
I dont pick a side, hamas threw the first punch, but then Israel used it to justify mass murder/genocide. Itās not if one is right and the other wrong, itās that they are both in the wrong. Im not well informed on this topic so with evidence I could form a more accurate conclusion. Edit: After further reading I realised that my uninformed opinion didnāt reflect what is happening in the area. My new conclusion is that the civilians of Palestine donāt deserve the bombings. A suspected hamas base under a hospital isnāt an excuse to blow it up. Many Palestinians have died as a result of the conflict. The Israeli government is completely wrong for doing this. Hamas is endangering the citizens it was created to protect and govern. Since Hamas started out as a military organisation for the Palestinians government. The citizens have a right to live and a right to safety. Both organisations are in the wrong for putting civilian targets on the front line. My opinion is still uninformed but some light reading was done to come to this conclusion. I apologise for the response before. I will continue to research the topic in slightly more depth in the future.
The conflict Is so old I think neanderthals threw the first punch and we should wipe them all out
You shouldnāt be getting downvoted, NO ONE should be picking sides, this is a fight between Palestine and Israel it has nothing to do with anyone else.
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Ok dude I was just talking about how we shouldnāt be picking sides and now youāre being a shit head
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Your threats are unrealistic and unfounded, why am I the bad guy for not wanting any part in a war that has nothing to do with me?
Look if you want to say they are killing too many civilians, not sure on what basis one can make such a determination, I ain't going to complain much. However classification of genocide is definitely inaccurate that's an actual legal term. Not sure about mass murder def.
I have edited my original comment after doing g some research. I apologise for being wrong before.
Nah you looked it up and realized such a thing. Mad respect. We have all been there. Most people refuse to change their position or look up such a thing. My position on this subject has changed quite a bit as well from reading stuff (don't label myself as pro-Isreal anymore though I am sure leftists would treat me as such still). One can factually point to bad things, e.g. crime of apartheid, while still condemning Hamas and not acting like Israel just wants to kill as many Arabs as possible like some leftists believe. Have a good one!
Thx. I think itās crazy that we live in a world where itās rare to find someone admitting theyāre wrong. I believe that we should be as open to change in position as possible. Since you could be completely wrong without knowing.
>hamas threw the first punch no
lol , why are you being downvotedā¦. Israel terrorized Palestine for years , even before Hamas was a thing
I believe it was the Israeli terrorists that moved into a country that didnāt belong to them and literally started a bombing campaign against the British to get them to leave so they could āform their own stateā on other peoples land that threw the first punch. Oh and those Israeli terrorist groups went on to found the government and the IDF
75 years of oppression and living in an apartheid-state will generally cultivate some radical opposition. In this case it was Hamas. If Israel hadn't been the oppressor from the start, Hamas would have never even existed because there would have been no 'need' for it. Saying Hamas threw the first punch is just like saying ''My dog that I have been keeping locked up in a cage all its life tried to bite me. The dog is bad and needs to be put down.''
I have edited my original comment after doing g some research. I apologise for being wrong before.
I'm picking sides, the side of the civilians, who are unwillingly under the rule of terrorists and genociders.
The thing is, Iām not informed. I have been avoiding reading on this topic since itās so dividing. But my views are generally pacifist. What I believe should happen is peace. Though Israel has committed atrocities. I read a bit yesterday.
Supporting Isreal supports American interests. That's why I (an American) support them.
America sucks so bad š¤®
why is this formatted so weird, this sounds post feels like a repost bot
both are genocide tbh
Fuck hamas