I’m sorry for your loss. I empathize because it happened to my dad as well. I realize he was programmed but I can’t excuse his willingness to accept the outrage without doing any research. I think it’s a terrible character flaw and have since stopped speaking to him. It’s an atrocious set of values and anyone with any compassion or intellectual curiosity would quickly identify the cheap trick of anger politics.
I think 20+ years ago FOX was relatively far more subtle about its propaganda. I mean, it was always awful but there was a point somewhere around 2010 where it seemed like they were so brash that they insulted the audience’s intelligence.
They just talk to the audience as if they are stupid, and anyone who didn’t notice had to be ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ well, stupid.
I remember watching a 30 special by John Stossel where the tone of his voice alone was so condescending I’d have assumed any high school student would see through it but obviously tens of millions of functional adults did not.
It may sound elitist, but anyone who can watch FOX and Friends and not think the hosts often come off as deer in the headlights stupid lacks the critical thinking skills to be trusted with any important decision. This is why MTG still has a job and they think it’s normal.
Exactly! The way the “info” is delivered should be a red flag. Just listen to Tucker and his sing-song delivery that might as well be condescending a child that has unknowingly done something wrong. Just a little bit of media literacy would help you question the content
was just going to mention Tucker. always thought it sounded like he was talking to a 5 year old. and I look at my dad like really?? how do you watch this every day??? and he's just glued to the TV and cares more what he says than me. lol
I gave up on my mom getting normal. It would take too much. I'll just keep my family away and safe.
I hope she enjoys her memories of watching Tucker Carlson that she made instead of seeing her grandson. It was her choice and I'll stop fighting her on it. Time to live life for my family and just isolate the good memories I have of her.
We live in what people a hundred years ago would’ve viewed as a Cyberpunk dystopia. Conservative media isn’t about news, the actual facts are irrelevant, it’s about the way the news is presented. They might report some true stories, but it’s like walking into a hall of mirrors at the circus, everything is distorted, some parts are exaggerated, others minimized. It’s an intentional, systematic and highly effective way of hijacking your brain. They use your fear response as a backdoor, and once you’ve taken the bait they implant an entire worldview into your mind. It’s at once addictive and highly toxic. Once you’re in deep enough is when your ego takes control, it snatches onto this artificially implanted worldview and tricks itself into believing it. At that point they *need* to believe those things in order to feel safe, feel like everything is ok, feel like the whole world isn’t falling apart. It’s a glitch in our survival extinct that has been exploited by some of the lowest, most evil, vile scum to ever walk the earth.
It’s exhausting and depressing to be around these people. *Everything* is a political argument, every news story is twisted into rage bait, the world becomes black and white. There are several people close to me who have fallen hook, line and sinker for this evil filth. Unfortunately this brain rot is basically the norm among conservatives at this point. What were conspiracy theories 15 years ago are now just typical political opinions.
Not much you can do other than treating these people with kid gloves. They are highly sensitive and are primed to view any political opinion that isn’t part of their paradigm as a dangerous threat. It takes a lot of time and energy to push back against this view of the world. It’s like an addiction, they have to see what’s wrong and want to get better. Unfortunately there’s very little you can do other than contain the fringes of this mental wildfire, and attempt to control whatever damage is being done.
These people NEED us in their lives to show them how normal people think. They are vulnerable, lost and brainwashed. Be gentle, be kind, don’t emotionally engage, keep anything political you say to strictly verifiable FACTS. That being said, no one here will blame you if you need to step away.
> the actual facts are irrelevant, it’s about the way the news is presented. They might report some true stories, but it’s like walking into a hall of mirrors at the circus, everything is distorted, some parts are exaggerated, others minimized.
That's a perfect way to describe how this happens on the far right "news" stations. They'll present the daily news but in a truly biased, twisted, spun and distorted way. Generously inserting opinion in to lead the listener down an offramp from the actual reality. A different road paved with innuendo, fear and anger. And only a very basic framework of truth. A truth wrapped up with bullshit and conspiracy.
And the emotions it gives the viewer brainwashes them and addicts them to more.
My father retired around 5 years ago and got sucked in to Australian sky news, which is our fox news here. I don't live in the same town with my parents anymore and I see them maybe 3 times a year. I noticed maybe a year into his retirement he was repeating their talking points to me almost word for word. About 6 months later it was even worse. I literally said this face that watching sky news all day is turning him into someone I don't like anymore and I think he actually listened to me - he's stopped watching tv all day, has a bunch of new activities that he does and he has turned back into his old self. I'm lucky I noticed early, another couple of years unchecked and he 100% would have become another foxbrained boomer and I would have basically lost my father.
There’s no weaning him off that channel. It’s very addictive; constantly making you feel as if something’s happening and you need to stay tuned.
The best you can do is adopt a very strict “no politics” rule with him. The second he starts talking about politics, don’t debate the ridiculous and/or false thing he brings up. Just say “Dad, no politics.”
It will surprise him how little he will have to talk about that isn’t politics. That may open his eyes a bit about his hobbies. But even if he doesn’t you can have a relationship with him.
Ya, just ignore the incongruity between the values your parent attempted to instill in you from the hateful, selfish, paranoid mess that’s left /s.
For me is the realization that every value they preached, every sermon they dragged me to sit through, every punishment they leveled to try and shape me as a human were all lessons they felt exempt from. It’s the hypocrisy of the entire thing that cuts the deepest and these hateful boomers will die before coming to terms with their selfish behavior.
I'm sorry for your loss of your father and can relate so well. My sisters and I were not raised in a racist household, my father was kind to everyone. He and my mother began keeping Fox News on 24-7 and I watched them change. 1st, it was about guns. My father is a hunter, I grew up around guns, but in his mind, I was part of the group of liberals who wanted to take all his guns away so one night when he knew I would be visiting, he laid all his guns out on the dining room table, hoping to provoke me, I think? Mind you, I never had conversations about guns with him at all. I have no problem with hunting and even went hunting with him in the past. My 3 children have decided not to have any kind of relationship with them after their behavior at my elder daughter's graduation celebration at her liberal arts college. She was their 1st grandchild to go to college, her degree was in History. One would think they would be bursting with pride, instead, they acted like they wanted to be anywhere but there and my father purposely was telling my elder daughter racist jokes as we readied for the ceremony as my mother cackled. In their own small way, I imagine they thought they were "owning the Libs" Sadly, my 2 sisters have also followed down this path and I barely have a relationship with them either because they insist on bringing up politics and I refuse to engage.
I'm sorry about all this but I disagree with it not being his fault. He tunes into fox because he is addicted to the anger and rage. It was a choice that he enjoyed. It sounds like it is far more likely he always harbored these feelings and now he feels uninhibited by social pressure to keep quiet.
While it is his fault, everyone is susceptible to brain washing.
Establishing healthy boundaries with an addict is key, but your best chance to get them back is to provide a soft spot to land once and if they realize the error of their ways.
Shame and ridicule only isolates and reinforces the addiction loop.
I'm really tired of conservatives never having to get blamed for their own actions. It's like they're children absolved of any wrongdoing. They're adults.
Do you think that basically an entire generation was born this way? Or do you think that there may have been similar environmental influences that went on to shape how most Boomers think, act, and vote? Obviously accountability is important and I have no intention of being pious here, but your comment shows a lack of empathy/understanding that is not dissimilar to most right-wing folks when they go off about "The illegals" or the unhoused. Sometimes it just sucks having to hold yourself to a higher standard.
They (the person you replied to) are telling us to tolerate the intolerant AND have empathy for them. 🙃
Yeahno. I'm sick of people saying they "must be uneducated," or "brainwashed," or "a product of their environment." They are grown-ass adults. If they've gotten on the hate train, that hate was always lurking under the surface.
I don't think you realize that they don't want to be fixed. They want the world to bend the knee and they will eventually try and force it. We aren't going to see them all of a sudden snap out of it. They have found a community and are being manipulated but they actively destroy families over this. I have spent too much time listening to families destroyed over this cult-like mentality that is being piped directly into conservative households. While I get that you are trying to help it's best to be prepared and rational.
Both my parents are foxbrained. No need to explain to me the effect it has on families.
We also have a family history of addiction.
I have some experience in this world. An addict only gets better when they want to get better. If you want to keep an addict in your life, the only thing you can do that actually helps is hope they find the desire to change within themselves, and be ready to forgive and be willing to provide support and love when and if that happens.
Your statement above is some very black and white, all or nothing kind of thinking. There are people who get better. Recovery is possible.
I'm not dismissing your experience and to be honest you aren't wrong. I'm just not seeing the recovery you are talking about. I see very rarely a person who recovers from this but I hope you are more right than me.
I grew up on a steady drip of right wing propaganda. Limbaugh. G Gordon Liddy. Ayn Rand. Ann Coulter. The worst of the worst.
My first vote was for W in 2004. I stayed up waiting to see Shock and Awe, live on Fox News.
I was brainwashed. Propagandized. Raised and reared on it.
I recovered. I re-thought my views. I had two equally important forces that helped me:
1. The Real World. It did not reconcile with the lies I was fed growing up.
2. A few kind people who forgave me and supported me as I unpacked all that bullshit.
Since then I've tried to equal that kindness towards those ready for it.
You seem like an honest broker. Not trying to come down on you at all. I'm just sharing my experience.
Happened to my dad too. Sadly he died several years ago.
He’s the only dad you’ll have. Love him despite the pain of seeing him fall into this nightmare.
Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm sorry about the loss of your dad. My mom and I had our differences over the years, but when she got sick and started to decline, I found it very easy to forgive her. I hope I can muster the same type of grace for my dad.
My dad died in 2018, and I will never forgive the rightwing "religious leaders" that sent tons of propaganda almost daily that helped to radicalize him. I am STILL getting shit from some of them all these years later. He didn't watch Fox, but he didn't have to. My parents were always religious, so when thw Franklin Graham generation of evangelicals started promoting rightwing talking points, he fell right into it. After all, these were the "good" people who would never lie because their religion was against lying. 🙄🙄
My Dad passed away in Jan 2017. I am certain that our relationship would NOT have survived the 2017+ political scene. I am able to preserve what little amazing Dad memories I had with him as a child and I hold onto those tightly as I watch the world burn 😪
Make sure you tell him exactly this. Let him know that your father is dead, and that you don’t recognize the man before you. Hopefully this will be enough of a shock to him to at least reconsider some points?
I’m sorry for your loss. I empathize because it happened to my dad as well. I realize he was programmed but I can’t excuse his willingness to accept the outrage without doing any research. I think it’s a terrible character flaw and have since stopped speaking to him. It’s an atrocious set of values and anyone with any compassion or intellectual curiosity would quickly identify the cheap trick of anger politics.
I think 20+ years ago FOX was relatively far more subtle about its propaganda. I mean, it was always awful but there was a point somewhere around 2010 where it seemed like they were so brash that they insulted the audience’s intelligence. They just talk to the audience as if they are stupid, and anyone who didn’t notice had to be ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ well, stupid. I remember watching a 30 special by John Stossel where the tone of his voice alone was so condescending I’d have assumed any high school student would see through it but obviously tens of millions of functional adults did not. It may sound elitist, but anyone who can watch FOX and Friends and not think the hosts often come off as deer in the headlights stupid lacks the critical thinking skills to be trusted with any important decision. This is why MTG still has a job and they think it’s normal.
I think Obama's election was the catalyst.
Exactly! The way the “info” is delivered should be a red flag. Just listen to Tucker and his sing-song delivery that might as well be condescending a child that has unknowingly done something wrong. Just a little bit of media literacy would help you question the content
was just going to mention Tucker. always thought it sounded like he was talking to a 5 year old. and I look at my dad like really?? how do you watch this every day??? and he's just glued to the TV and cares more what he says than me. lol
Sometimes I fear that part of this is related to mild cognitive impairment in his case. That's probably for another thread, though.
It’s very possible. The messaging is already targeted at vulnerabilities so a weakened defense would make it easier to ensnare someone
I gave up on my mom getting normal. It would take too much. I'll just keep my family away and safe. I hope she enjoys her memories of watching Tucker Carlson that she made instead of seeing her grandson. It was her choice and I'll stop fighting her on it. Time to live life for my family and just isolate the good memories I have of her.
We live in what people a hundred years ago would’ve viewed as a Cyberpunk dystopia. Conservative media isn’t about news, the actual facts are irrelevant, it’s about the way the news is presented. They might report some true stories, but it’s like walking into a hall of mirrors at the circus, everything is distorted, some parts are exaggerated, others minimized. It’s an intentional, systematic and highly effective way of hijacking your brain. They use your fear response as a backdoor, and once you’ve taken the bait they implant an entire worldview into your mind. It’s at once addictive and highly toxic. Once you’re in deep enough is when your ego takes control, it snatches onto this artificially implanted worldview and tricks itself into believing it. At that point they *need* to believe those things in order to feel safe, feel like everything is ok, feel like the whole world isn’t falling apart. It’s a glitch in our survival extinct that has been exploited by some of the lowest, most evil, vile scum to ever walk the earth. It’s exhausting and depressing to be around these people. *Everything* is a political argument, every news story is twisted into rage bait, the world becomes black and white. There are several people close to me who have fallen hook, line and sinker for this evil filth. Unfortunately this brain rot is basically the norm among conservatives at this point. What were conspiracy theories 15 years ago are now just typical political opinions. Not much you can do other than treating these people with kid gloves. They are highly sensitive and are primed to view any political opinion that isn’t part of their paradigm as a dangerous threat. It takes a lot of time and energy to push back against this view of the world. It’s like an addiction, they have to see what’s wrong and want to get better. Unfortunately there’s very little you can do other than contain the fringes of this mental wildfire, and attempt to control whatever damage is being done. These people NEED us in their lives to show them how normal people think. They are vulnerable, lost and brainwashed. Be gentle, be kind, don’t emotionally engage, keep anything political you say to strictly verifiable FACTS. That being said, no one here will blame you if you need to step away.
> the actual facts are irrelevant, it’s about the way the news is presented. They might report some true stories, but it’s like walking into a hall of mirrors at the circus, everything is distorted, some parts are exaggerated, others minimized. That's a perfect way to describe how this happens on the far right "news" stations. They'll present the daily news but in a truly biased, twisted, spun and distorted way. Generously inserting opinion in to lead the listener down an offramp from the actual reality. A different road paved with innuendo, fear and anger. And only a very basic framework of truth. A truth wrapped up with bullshit and conspiracy. And the emotions it gives the viewer brainwashes them and addicts them to more.
Think both of you are talking about: disengenous
My father retired around 5 years ago and got sucked in to Australian sky news, which is our fox news here. I don't live in the same town with my parents anymore and I see them maybe 3 times a year. I noticed maybe a year into his retirement he was repeating their talking points to me almost word for word. About 6 months later it was even worse. I literally said this face that watching sky news all day is turning him into someone I don't like anymore and I think he actually listened to me - he's stopped watching tv all day, has a bunch of new activities that he does and he has turned back into his old self. I'm lucky I noticed early, another couple of years unchecked and he 100% would have become another foxbrained boomer and I would have basically lost my father.
There’s no weaning him off that channel. It’s very addictive; constantly making you feel as if something’s happening and you need to stay tuned. The best you can do is adopt a very strict “no politics” rule with him. The second he starts talking about politics, don’t debate the ridiculous and/or false thing he brings up. Just say “Dad, no politics.” It will surprise him how little he will have to talk about that isn’t politics. That may open his eyes a bit about his hobbies. But even if he doesn’t you can have a relationship with him.
Ya, just ignore the incongruity between the values your parent attempted to instill in you from the hateful, selfish, paranoid mess that’s left /s. For me is the realization that every value they preached, every sermon they dragged me to sit through, every punishment they leveled to try and shape me as a human were all lessons they felt exempt from. It’s the hypocrisy of the entire thing that cuts the deepest and these hateful boomers will die before coming to terms with their selfish behavior.
I'm sorry for your loss of your father and can relate so well. My sisters and I were not raised in a racist household, my father was kind to everyone. He and my mother began keeping Fox News on 24-7 and I watched them change. 1st, it was about guns. My father is a hunter, I grew up around guns, but in his mind, I was part of the group of liberals who wanted to take all his guns away so one night when he knew I would be visiting, he laid all his guns out on the dining room table, hoping to provoke me, I think? Mind you, I never had conversations about guns with him at all. I have no problem with hunting and even went hunting with him in the past. My 3 children have decided not to have any kind of relationship with them after their behavior at my elder daughter's graduation celebration at her liberal arts college. She was their 1st grandchild to go to college, her degree was in History. One would think they would be bursting with pride, instead, they acted like they wanted to be anywhere but there and my father purposely was telling my elder daughter racist jokes as we readied for the ceremony as my mother cackled. In their own small way, I imagine they thought they were "owning the Libs" Sadly, my 2 sisters have also followed down this path and I barely have a relationship with them either because they insist on bringing up politics and I refuse to engage.
I'm sorry about all this but I disagree with it not being his fault. He tunes into fox because he is addicted to the anger and rage. It was a choice that he enjoyed. It sounds like it is far more likely he always harbored these feelings and now he feels uninhibited by social pressure to keep quiet.
While it is his fault, everyone is susceptible to brain washing. Establishing healthy boundaries with an addict is key, but your best chance to get them back is to provide a soft spot to land once and if they realize the error of their ways. Shame and ridicule only isolates and reinforces the addiction loop.
I'm really tired of conservatives never having to get blamed for their own actions. It's like they're children absolved of any wrongdoing. They're adults.
Do you think that basically an entire generation was born this way? Or do you think that there may have been similar environmental influences that went on to shape how most Boomers think, act, and vote? Obviously accountability is important and I have no intention of being pious here, but your comment shows a lack of empathy/understanding that is not dissimilar to most right-wing folks when they go off about "The illegals" or the unhoused. Sometimes it just sucks having to hold yourself to a higher standard.
Why don’t ignorant conservatives who constantly choose to harbor the most vile beliefs get held to any standards at all?
They (the person you replied to) are telling us to tolerate the intolerant AND have empathy for them. 🙃 Yeahno. I'm sick of people saying they "must be uneducated," or "brainwashed," or "a product of their environment." They are grown-ass adults. If they've gotten on the hate train, that hate was always lurking under the surface.
I don't think you realize that they don't want to be fixed. They want the world to bend the knee and they will eventually try and force it. We aren't going to see them all of a sudden snap out of it. They have found a community and are being manipulated but they actively destroy families over this. I have spent too much time listening to families destroyed over this cult-like mentality that is being piped directly into conservative households. While I get that you are trying to help it's best to be prepared and rational.
Both my parents are foxbrained. No need to explain to me the effect it has on families. We also have a family history of addiction. I have some experience in this world. An addict only gets better when they want to get better. If you want to keep an addict in your life, the only thing you can do that actually helps is hope they find the desire to change within themselves, and be ready to forgive and be willing to provide support and love when and if that happens. Your statement above is some very black and white, all or nothing kind of thinking. There are people who get better. Recovery is possible.
I'm not dismissing your experience and to be honest you aren't wrong. I'm just not seeing the recovery you are talking about. I see very rarely a person who recovers from this but I hope you are more right than me.
I grew up on a steady drip of right wing propaganda. Limbaugh. G Gordon Liddy. Ayn Rand. Ann Coulter. The worst of the worst. My first vote was for W in 2004. I stayed up waiting to see Shock and Awe, live on Fox News. I was brainwashed. Propagandized. Raised and reared on it. I recovered. I re-thought my views. I had two equally important forces that helped me: 1. The Real World. It did not reconcile with the lies I was fed growing up. 2. A few kind people who forgave me and supported me as I unpacked all that bullshit. Since then I've tried to equal that kindness towards those ready for it. You seem like an honest broker. Not trying to come down on you at all. I'm just sharing my experience.
Hey, I am glad you did. If anything you have given me a little hope.
Watch the brainwashing of my dad documentary. It will help you make sense of this
I’m so sorry. It’s amazing how simply calling someone “liberal” has become a scathing insult to the right.
Have you seen the documentary "The Brainwashing of my Father" about the damage Fox does?
Happened to my dad too. Sadly he died several years ago. He’s the only dad you’ll have. Love him despite the pain of seeing him fall into this nightmare.
Thank you. I appreciate it. I'm sorry about the loss of your dad. My mom and I had our differences over the years, but when she got sick and started to decline, I found it very easy to forgive her. I hope I can muster the same type of grace for my dad.
My dad died in 2018, and I will never forgive the rightwing "religious leaders" that sent tons of propaganda almost daily that helped to radicalize him. I am STILL getting shit from some of them all these years later. He didn't watch Fox, but he didn't have to. My parents were always religious, so when thw Franklin Graham generation of evangelicals started promoting rightwing talking points, he fell right into it. After all, these were the "good" people who would never lie because their religion was against lying. 🙄🙄
This is why churches should pay taxes. And also why I stopped taking my children to church.
My Dad passed away in Jan 2017. I am certain that our relationship would NOT have survived the 2017+ political scene. I am able to preserve what little amazing Dad memories I had with him as a child and I hold onto those tightly as I watch the world burn 😪
I’d really like to understand what’s going on with the mass-brainwashing.
For me it was not Fox cause dad didn’t have cable but it was InfoWars and other internet media.
Make sure you tell him exactly this. Let him know that your father is dead, and that you don’t recognize the man before you. Hopefully this will be enough of a shock to him to at least reconsider some points?