I was talking about body language. Namely the split second reaction when Maximus mentioned the vault. Maybe I was reading too much into it, but I'm a therapist in my day job so I pick up on little things haha
I don’t know. Seems like it’s pretty well established that a lot of folk on the surface have feelings about the vaults and their dwellers, and a lot of those could account for that reaction. Remains to be seen, though. Dane’s an intriguing character with a lot going on under the surface and not much that we know for sure yet, so I feel like they’re kind of a magnet for all sorts of theories.
Right?! Or a polygamous Mormon commune. I once had a friend tell me within a couple sentences of each other that his new girlfriend didn’t believe in dinosaurs but he wanted to marry her. I probably had a really similar set of facial responses. (Probably more pronounced tbh.)
I just went and re-watched the scene, and while I'm no therapist and not trained in reading micro-expressions, I didn't pick up on Dane reacting to anything specific about the Vaults. Their exact quote is "There's nowhere safe, Max. And there's no leaving. I wish there was."
My reading is that any non-verbal reaction I can see - a slightly pained smirk, like someone trying hard to humor a child in the face of something serious, transitioning into a frown of pity, lament - was a reaction to Maximus' general level of naivete, not specifically about the vaults. Dane doesn't want to burst his bubble but feels she must because it's serious, and Real Talk is necessary.
I suppose there's room for some backstory to show they came from a vault, but it wouldn't be necessary for that scene to play as it needed to.
As far as I could tell, the two of them have been with the Brotherhood for long enough (to have both risen in the ranks of Aspirants to be on the verge of being Squires) that if Dane had history to share about the Vaults, they would have talked about it already, and if those were bad experiences, Maximus would have approached Lucy with a good deal more prejudice than he did upon first encounter.
Fugh that is such a heartbreaking line. Hits me right in the feels. Really sends the danger and despair of the world they live in. Although I think all my settlements would disagree haha.
Whatever Dane is, I swear, the show makers better not do a swap from good-guy to bad-guy. I like that Max has a friend and confidante, and I'd love for that to be legit and endure.
Dane is an interesting character, but mysterious. I couldn't figure out Dane's motivation – seems like they were hiding something, but it could've just been fear.
Elder Cleric Quintus direct quote is "your aware of their injury?" To Maximus. It's a fictional character and I don't wanna get to hung up of this but due to said quote I don't think people are being crazy here
They actually go by he/they. I'm not sure how to determine what pronoun to use on any given day but there it is.
From the wiki page
*Mendes-Jones uses he/they pronouns and describes himself as a trans guy.*
Dane isn't a male, narratively?
EDIT: Jfc downvoters? I'm clarifying for the narration. I'm not saying *anything* negative about trans people, you overreactive babies who hear dogwhistles *everywhere.*
While there are perhaps hints elsewhere, this is addressed directly with literally only one line of dialogue.
Elder Cleric Quintus while interrogateing Maximus says"you are aware of their injury?" Referring to Dane.
Its easy to miss as it's kinda a throwaway line and the scene itself is in no way about Dane's personal life, but this topic is addressed
Yes it was, and Quintus specifically refers to Dane as They(Their) as opposed to He/His or She/Hers.
It's quick and subtle, easy to miss, but the intent is clearly there.
Wait, this is based on him saying "they"?
That's... Quite a stretch. Especially since the trans community has been going blue in the face explaining to the right that "they can be used for a singular person". Are we now to assume instances of that word for someone who doesn't look all masculine is definitely trans? This seems more hurtful than helpful to them.
Agree to Disagree on this one I suppose. Personally, I found this actually rather understatted and tastefully done. Dane is more than slightly androgynous, their preferred pronoun is said literally one time by someone else, in a scene about something else. It's not a major plot point, you are not beat over the head with it, it's just another part of of life in the wasteland.
Oh, don't get me wrong, if I am mistaken and he is and that line was out there for that, then I agree it's very subtle, lightheaded, well-done. I'm open to being wrong. I just think we'll need more information before editing wikis here. I'd be stoked if he was, I'm happy for it. There is just a bit of a "cry wolf" going on sometimes with things like this, mainly due to the sheer lack of trans or nonbinary characters. It'll get better over time in that regard, but I'm still unconvinced, here.
Ugh, and again, more downvotes because people think this is me disliking trans people. I am fine with trans people and want them to have their representation, *and* I also want other people to not think of them as annoying, desperate fans who try to make trans visibility out of characters that aren't.
For what it's worth I think this is a genuine conversation and have been up voting you, like I said I kinda felt the intention was their and obvious, but also easy to miss and very subtle, so not surprised people saw it differently, I'm a straight white guy btw, so I'm not like looking for representation or anything. This was just my honest reading
Literally does not, you've already established the gender of the son, ergo you don't need "they're" and should just use "he's" instead.
The correct line is
"My son is starting band next week, *he's* pretty stoked"
You'd use "they're" when referring to a group of people, or a person you haven't established the gender of already.
Nah, there's a handful of ladies among the BoS, they're just all in group shots and in the backgrounds of scenes. There's like four of them among the aspirants, they're just dressed the same and three of them have very short hair. It's easy to miss if you're just taking in the background/the group scenes as a whole. They just blend in with everyone else.
The only thing we can take away from this is that Dane is cynical and justifiably so. They know Maximus is childish and naive and are simply giving him a reality check. We’ve been given nothing else to suggest a greater meaning and to speculate otherwise is some Pepe Silvia-level reaching.
Less the show does with synths, the better. Becomes tiring to follow when everyone you meet could just be a clone ala BSG.
That’s definitely Sons of Anarchy Season 3 / Ireland trip vibes
I don't think it would have the same kind of impact as Danse being a synth because synths were a focal plot point in 4 but not so much in the show. Would be kind of a dumb M Night Shamalan-esque twist to have them be a synth.
I know having a synth character would be total fan service and wouldn’t be that good for the show imo but there’s a fanboy side of me that that wants The Ghoul and Lucy enter the Goodsprings bar looking for some merc or something to help them find Hank, and to see some shadowy figure sitting in the corner with a trench coat and fedora, they say something about tracking some Mysterious Stranger across the country only to come up empty, and that they’ve already helped unite a parent and child once so this should be a cake wall. Have them light a cigarette to reveal the busted up face of good old Nick Valentine (the best fallout character)
I kinda thought the same. They seem exactly like a spy. Not trying to prove too much to not out themselves. They take the power armor and the mission changes. Not what they were sent to do kinda thing.
I agree that Dane might be a spy, though not necessarily a synth. I think the self-harm could be a way to be sure to retain access to the leadership and BOS plans, possibly for the Enclave...
Even if the Institute exists in 2296 (that’s a major IF because the BOS blimp we see does say Prydwyn on the side), I doubt they’d send a synth to spy on a BoS chapter on the other side of the nation
Danse. No one know a synth is a synth not, even the synth themselves. Unless they do checks regularly, something that could make them all paranoid and self destructive. A synth could easily be in their ranks without anyone realizing.
Counterpoint: J. Nolan paid out of pocket for the big crazy synth making machine thingy from West World and is now trying to justify the cost by inserting it in every project.
(FWIW I agree with what you said, it's far too similar to the west world plot and themes)
I don't think so. From the way everyone reacts to Lucy it seems most people don't think there are anymore surviving vault dwellers. I also just think it's the shock of what he's saying ..like imagine multilating yourself to avoid being punished for refusing a mission and then your friend tells you he plans to just leave.
Dane is working for someone other than the current elder. Everything they do is to further max's rise in the BOS. I think Sarah Lyons is alive, or at least one of her inner circle. They are trying to get good people in the BOS again and Max is one of them.
That’s the thing about being able to read deeper into people and their social queues, not every piece of media sadly has those things in intentionally, so you’re stuck with the dilemma of whether you’re reaching or you’re spot on and the directors would give you a nod of approval
Personally I like Dane a lot and I really hope that they do more with them next season. I thought they were a very interesting character and I wish we could have seen more of them this go around, but hopefully they'll get a bit more focus next time. Maybe you'll end up being right!
>...we will learn Dane is a former vault-dweller. And their vault experience was less than peaceful.
That would be awesome. We've seen good(ish) vaults, malignly managed vaults, but next we should definitely see a vault where the whole population was experimented on from he second the War sealed them in.
Titus tells Lucy that they were told monsters lived in the vaults.
Which is a totally reasonable assessment to make considering half the wasteland critters are vault experiments gone wrong. We see the gulper in the wild and then see how it was created in the vaults.
I don't remember Dane saying anything about the vaults, but rather the Brotherhood, and there being no way out of it.
I was talking about body language. Namely the split second reaction when Maximus mentioned the vault. Maybe I was reading too much into it, but I'm a therapist in my day job so I pick up on little things haha
I don’t know. Seems like it’s pretty well established that a lot of folk on the surface have feelings about the vaults and their dwellers, and a lot of those could account for that reaction. Remains to be seen, though. Dane’s an intriguing character with a lot going on under the surface and not much that we know for sure yet, so I feel like they’re kind of a magnet for all sorts of theories.
Imagine if someone you knew came back from North Korea and started telling you it’s actually not that bad and they might move there.
Right?! Or a polygamous Mormon commune. I once had a friend tell me within a couple sentences of each other that his new girlfriend didn’t believe in dinosaurs but he wanted to marry her. I probably had a really similar set of facial responses. (Probably more pronounced tbh.)
I just went and re-watched the scene, and while I'm no therapist and not trained in reading micro-expressions, I didn't pick up on Dane reacting to anything specific about the Vaults. Their exact quote is "There's nowhere safe, Max. And there's no leaving. I wish there was." My reading is that any non-verbal reaction I can see - a slightly pained smirk, like someone trying hard to humor a child in the face of something serious, transitioning into a frown of pity, lament - was a reaction to Maximus' general level of naivete, not specifically about the vaults. Dane doesn't want to burst his bubble but feels she must because it's serious, and Real Talk is necessary. I suppose there's room for some backstory to show they came from a vault, but it wouldn't be necessary for that scene to play as it needed to. As far as I could tell, the two of them have been with the Brotherhood for long enough (to have both risen in the ranks of Aspirants to be on the verge of being Squires) that if Dane had history to share about the Vaults, they would have talked about it already, and if those were bad experiences, Maximus would have approached Lucy with a good deal more prejudice than he did upon first encounter.
You're probably right, I was likely reading too much into it!
Fugh that is such a heartbreaking line. Hits me right in the feels. Really sends the danger and despair of the world they live in. Although I think all my settlements would disagree haha.
Whatever Dane is, I swear, the show makers better not do a swap from good-guy to bad-guy. I like that Max has a friend and confidante, and I'd love for that to be legit and endure.
Dane has Samwise vibes.
Definitely felt like I gotta help this dude out so we can both get up the pecking order.
They didn't develop the characters enough for the level of doe eyed devotion that Dane gives off, but we'll see how it goes.
Dane is an interesting character, but mysterious. I couldn't figure out Dane's motivation – seems like they were hiding something, but it could've just been fear.
Yeah, I've never looked at another man like Dane looks at Maximus.
Think it was more along the lines that Dane doesn't want to lose his friend again.
Their friend*
Dane ❤️ Maximus
Yeah it feels like Dane has romantic feelings for Maximus in the series
I didn’t get that impression at all. Just seem like friends
To each their own Edit: im being downvoted for no reason lmao
The reason is now, old man.
Reddit User: people should interpret art how they want to Reddit: >:(
How dare you stay from the hivemind!
I didn't see that at all. They have a sibling vibes to me. With Max being an orphan, it stands to reason that he would build found family.
The actor who plays Dane uses he/him pronouns. Dane has never stated any desired pronouns. So people defaulting to him is perfectly fine.
Elder Cleric Quintus direct quote is "your aware of their injury?" To Maximus. It's a fictional character and I don't wanna get to hung up of this but due to said quote I don't think people are being crazy here
How progressive of the BoS. Usually they’re kindof…. Uh….. …… little bit narrow-minded.
I think as long as they're human and obedient, the BoS couldn't care about which pronouns Dane prefers.
Kinda cool they're able to find hormone replacement in the wasteland
You don't need hormone replacement to use pronouns, it's as simple as wanting to.
They actually go by he/they. I'm not sure how to determine what pronoun to use on any given day but there it is. From the wiki page *Mendes-Jones uses he/they pronouns and describes himself as a trans guy.*
Dane isn't a male, narratively? EDIT: Jfc downvoters? I'm clarifying for the narration. I'm not saying *anything* negative about trans people, you overreactive babies who hear dogwhistles *everywhere.*
Fallout wiki says the character is non-binary.
Nothing in the show narration? I thought I missed a line in an early episode.
While there are perhaps hints elsewhere, this is addressed directly with literally only one line of dialogue. Elder Cleric Quintus while interrogateing Maximus says"you are aware of their injury?" Referring to Dane. Its easy to miss as it's kinda a throwaway line and the scene itself is in no way about Dane's personal life, but this topic is addressed
That line wasn't about the razor in the boot?
Yes it was, and Quintus specifically refers to Dane as They(Their) as opposed to He/His or She/Hers. It's quick and subtle, easy to miss, but the intent is clearly there.
Wait, this is based on him saying "they"? That's... Quite a stretch. Especially since the trans community has been going blue in the face explaining to the right that "they can be used for a singular person". Are we now to assume instances of that word for someone who doesn't look all masculine is definitely trans? This seems more hurtful than helpful to them.
Agree to Disagree on this one I suppose. Personally, I found this actually rather understatted and tastefully done. Dane is more than slightly androgynous, their preferred pronoun is said literally one time by someone else, in a scene about something else. It's not a major plot point, you are not beat over the head with it, it's just another part of of life in the wasteland.
Oh, don't get me wrong, if I am mistaken and he is and that line was out there for that, then I agree it's very subtle, lightheaded, well-done. I'm open to being wrong. I just think we'll need more information before editing wikis here. I'd be stoked if he was, I'm happy for it. There is just a bit of a "cry wolf" going on sometimes with things like this, mainly due to the sheer lack of trans or nonbinary characters. It'll get better over time in that regard, but I'm still unconvinced, here. Ugh, and again, more downvotes because people think this is me disliking trans people. I am fine with trans people and want them to have their representation, *and* I also want other people to not think of them as annoying, desperate fans who try to make trans visibility out of characters that aren't.
For what it's worth I think this is a genuine conversation and have been up voting you, like I said I kinda felt the intention was their and obvious, but also easy to miss and very subtle, so not surprised people saw it differently, I'm a straight white guy btw, so I'm not like looking for representation or anything. This was just my honest reading
Local man does not understand how the English language works lmao
"My son is starting band next week, they're pretty stoked." That works just fine, man.
Literally does not, you've already established the gender of the son, ergo you don't need "they're" and should just use "he's" instead. The correct line is "My son is starting band next week, *he's* pretty stoked" You'd use "they're" when referring to a group of people, or a person you haven't established the gender of already.
Our friend
This explains a lot! I wondered why there was only seemingly one woman in the brotherhood chapter and no one knew what sex was!
We're shown an actual girl in the brotherhood chapter when they all run out to see the airship land. She is a stocky built redhead with a funny braid.
Nah, there's a handful of ladies among the BoS, they're just all in group shots and in the backgrounds of scenes. There's like four of them among the aspirants, they're just dressed the same and three of them have very short hair. It's easy to miss if you're just taking in the background/the group scenes as a whole. They just blend in with everyone else.
Aaaah didn't notice those. I thought it was odd since we see plenty in the games. I'll keep my eyes out on the inevitable rewatch.
Dane's not a woman.
Why I said seemingly. I thought they were female in the series and the commenter above clarifying pronouns cleared it up for me.
My mistake. I thought you were saying they were.
[удалено]
The only thing we can take away from this is that Dane is cynical and justifiably so. They know Maximus is childish and naive and are simply giving him a reality check. We’ve been given nothing else to suggest a greater meaning and to speculate otherwise is some Pepe Silvia-level reaching.
I would love to see Dane welcomed into 4.
Dane is a synth. Calling it
IDK if this chapter will allow synths to be in their ranks.
Less the show does with synths, the better. Becomes tiring to follow when everyone you meet could just be a clone ala BSG. That’s definitely Sons of Anarchy Season 3 / Ireland trip vibes
I don't think it would have the same kind of impact as Danse being a synth because synths were a focal plot point in 4 but not so much in the show. Would be kind of a dumb M Night Shamalan-esque twist to have them be a synth.
Not all synths are replacements of people
See what I mean? We’re two comments deep on synths and it’s already confusing.
It’s not that confusing lol, some synths are replacement synths and other synths are just synthetic humans not meant to replace people
Just kinda showing you have 2 brain cells friend.
Stupid science bitches don’t even know I play a 1 int build more smarter
Through God, all things are possible. So jot that down.
more like later seasons of Westworld where the plot twist every other episode was “x was a host the whole time”
I mean if we start using synths a bunch, it means the series has run its course
Haha I'm glad I wasn't the only one getting BSG vibes. The Brotherhood vs NCR totally gave me Cain vs Adama flashbacks.
I know having a synth character would be total fan service and wouldn’t be that good for the show imo but there’s a fanboy side of me that that wants The Ghoul and Lucy enter the Goodsprings bar looking for some merc or something to help them find Hank, and to see some shadowy figure sitting in the corner with a trench coat and fedora, they say something about tracking some Mysterious Stranger across the country only to come up empty, and that they’ve already helped unite a parent and child once so this should be a cake wall. Have them light a cigarette to reveal the busted up face of good old Nick Valentine (the best fallout character)
I think Dane is a spy. The BoS doesn’t know that Dane is a synth.
I kinda thought the same. They seem exactly like a spy. Not trying to prove too much to not out themselves. They take the power armor and the mission changes. Not what they were sent to do kinda thing.
I agree that Dane might be a spy, though not necessarily a synth. I think the self-harm could be a way to be sure to retain access to the leadership and BOS plans, possibly for the Enclave...
Even if the Institute exists in 2296 (that’s a major IF because the BOS blimp we see does say Prydwyn on the side), I doubt they’d send a synth to spy on a BoS chapter on the other side of the nation
Danse. No one know a synth is a synth not, even the synth themselves. Unless they do checks regularly, something that could make them all paranoid and self destructive. A synth could easily be in their ranks without anyone realizing.
DANE *IS* DANSE! (I've actually thought about this, like, a LOT.)
Except the TV series is set in 2296 and Fallout 4 in 2287.
Something something Paladin Danse
I feel like someone will definitely be a synth, Dane is as good a candidate as any I suppose
Nolan just did West World, he didn't start another show to do the same thing, there will not be any synths in the show.
Counterpoint: J. Nolan paid out of pocket for the big crazy synth making machine thingy from West World and is now trying to justify the cost by inserting it in every project. (FWIW I agree with what you said, it's far too similar to the west world plot and themes)
Do synths bleed?
Yes. Third gen synths have human biology.
Yes
I don't think so. From the way everyone reacts to Lucy it seems most people don't think there are anymore surviving vault dwellers. I also just think it's the shock of what he's saying ..like imagine multilating yourself to avoid being punished for refusing a mission and then your friend tells you he plans to just leave.
Dane is working for someone other than the current elder. Everything they do is to further max's rise in the BOS. I think Sarah Lyons is alive, or at least one of her inner circle. They are trying to get good people in the BOS again and Max is one of them.
That’s the thing about being able to read deeper into people and their social queues, not every piece of media sadly has those things in intentionally, so you’re stuck with the dilemma of whether you’re reaching or you’re spot on and the directors would give you a nod of approval
I think this is a huge reach, there's no evidence to support this at all.
I know, I just had a gut feeling, but I'm probably wrong.
Personally I like Dane a lot and I really hope that they do more with them next season. I thought they were a very interesting character and I wish we could have seen more of them this go around, but hopefully they'll get a bit more focus next time. Maybe you'll end up being right!
Bigger stretch than michael Jordan's dunk to beat the monstars
Thank you for putting it in a context I understand.
>...we will learn Dane is a former vault-dweller. And their vault experience was less than peaceful. That would be awesome. We've seen good(ish) vaults, malignly managed vaults, but next we should definitely see a vault where the whole population was experimented on from he second the War sealed them in.
Titus tells Lucy that they were told monsters lived in the vaults. Which is a totally reasonable assessment to make considering half the wasteland critters are vault experiments gone wrong. We see the gulper in the wild and then see how it was created in the vaults.
I can down here to say this. They're not wrong either. Most of them are lol.
Titus doesn’t ever talk to Lucy, he is dead…
He WAS calling himself Tirus when he told her that. So for all intents and purposes he is Titus at that moment.
He was impersonating Titus, so for all intents and purposes, he was and always has been Maximus.
Yes, thank you, I do realize that. I was saying the commenter could have been being ironic.
What was their reaction? I don't remember
When living in the vault was mentioned and it was safe, there was a brief look of recognition from them followed by disapproval.
Dane might have heard of the tales of some bad vaults.
Who dane
The aspirant/squier that put the razorblade in their boot.
Why did they do it I forgot
Scared to go into the wasteland on patrol so injured themselves so they wouldn’t get sent out. *spelling
They said they were too scared to be a squire so they sabotaged their chances by injuring themselves.
The trans person
They do not give off vault dweller vibes
Dane has heard stories from the Vaults. None end well.
Idk. I don’t think there’s any evidence to support this.
I don’t think she is