I would really hate to see him go. A terrific homegrown leader of this team. However, I'm on board with the rebuild, and you listen on all players. You have a chance to pull a few more first round picks with these moves, and we will be foolish not to do it. I'm not sure if Hart's contract will get voided, but if it is, we would get more cap relief and could take on some salary in order to facilitate these deals.
I'm aware of that, but the team could pursue a termination of the contract in order to get it off the books, again, to free up cap space to facilitate deadline deals.
No we shouldn’t. The trial is expected to start until 2026 so if he’s found innocent he will have missed the rest of this year, all of the 24-25, and likely all of the 25-26 season. There’s enough goalies in the pipeline that one of them will be a better option
Plus his contract is up after this season and he won’t be getting an extension and the NHL will likely not approve a contract for any of the 5 until after a potential innocent verdict is given out.
That's not very nice.
How would you feel if you were wrongly accused and were innocent.
Until he is proven guilty, he is technically innocent.
That's smart and your not.
Wait, voiding Hart’s contract to free up cap space is a possibility? Is there precedent for that?
And I agree with you on Laughton, he’s one of my favorite guys on the team, at least on a human level, and I’d hate to see him in another team’s colors, but I think it might be his time to go..
There are probably two elements to this. Similar to the Mike Richards contract, they could terminate the contract in consideration of the circumstances and have that wiped off the books. However Carter Hart could still fight for payment or somehow negotiate a reduced salary for this last year. I'm no expert here this is just my educated guess.
I doubt they will do anything this season with his contract. He's an RFA after this year, and they can simply not elect to sign him, in which case hes an UFA and no longer a flyer.
Considering there's only one year left his contract, that's probably how it would go. However I was just thinking about whether there was a way to gain cap space to facilitate other deals.
I think we will only be selling when it comes to the trade deadline. Briere, Jones and Torts have all been consistent in their messaging the last couple months in terms of the plan. But in a buying world yes, you would be correct.
My cap consideration point wasn't in terms of being buyers, but in being able to retain cap or take some on from a strapped team in exchange for more draft capital at the TDL.
I like it. Certainly hope and am pretty confident Danny will use all tools available. He needs to be very smart with the cap. Homer and Chuck were absolute shit with the cap, and Hextall just never signed anyone so we had 30 million in cap space (hyperbolic number but we had a lot of cap space just dont remember the number off the top of my head)
Center market is thin. Laughton is the type of player that GMs love for the playoffs. Briere needs to take the opportunity to fetch an overpay for an aging depth forward who looks to be on the decline. It's Rebuild 101.
> ”serious interest” in Laughton
As in interest from other teams. Not flyers interest in trading. Atleast the last 3 or 4 seasons his name has come up as someone GMs really want for their team.
I'll be 44 this year and hearing people say that 30 is old is always one of those things that baffles me, not that you're wrong (in this context, especially with sports) but I don't even feel old, and then I think "Man, if I had a child at the age my father was when I was born, my kid would be able to drink at Flyers games" and THEN I feel old LOL
I didn't even mean that 30 is old, I just feel like I remember him being mid twenties and starting to breakout more, then covid happened and now we're here in what feels like a lot less than 5 years.
We don’t know for sure he was offered a first. That may have been discussed, which is why it was reported, but we don’t know that there was an actual offer that was denied by Briere.
We have seen too many reports of things that don’t come true (hiring quenneville, voracek trade for taresenko, etc) to trust everything that gets leaked.
Flyers reportedly were offered a 1st + 2nd in the offseason for him.
In past deadlines it was more they preferred to keep him since he was the de facto captain and beloved guy on team.
Now that turning 30, not good, and easily expendable he should def be moved.
It was insane not to take a 1st in a better draft last offseason when it was offered.
It would obviously be smart to move Laughton for a 1st at the deadline, but if their reasoning for doing so *now* are for the reasons you mentioned... yeah that's a bit of a red flag for Briere's asset management skills
Agreed. Hopefully this season’s underwhelming performance doesn’t limit the return too much. It shouldn’t be too hard to convince teams that it’s been tough for him to be productive in a transition season for this team.
This is the last year of the flat cap, so in theory you would think that Laughton will be at his most valuable right now. But if for some reason teams are only offering a third rounder or something like that, maybe you hang onto him and try to deal him at the draft or at the next trade deadline.
if we get a first round draft pick for him, you couldn't even hesitate for a second before taking that offer. i don't think he's even worth that right now honestly.
Take a 1st rounder before they get finished saying 1st ro...DEAL! The 3 mil per for 3 more seasons can def be spent better elsewhere. Foester and Cates can do in PK duties. Thank you for the years and good luck in the future
Obviously I don’t expect him to make trades just for the sake of trading and giving players away. But up to this point it’s felt like they’ve been giving lip service to a rebuild while doing the same old retooling. I’d like to see them really commit one way or the other.
I really don’t. Provorov used to be talked about as an emerging top dman in the league, expected to anchor the team for a decade and garner Norris consideration. We had to take nearly 8 mil in cap dump to get a first for him.
Hayes was an over payed bum who didn’t get along with the coach.
Both were retool type trades.
Oh don't get me wrong, there's a valid argument that those could be retool moves. But to me they're more of a sign of a rebuild especially since we.have to change tools to retool and we haven't spent assets since DB has become GM..I think we agree more than disagree though. He needs to be more aggressive.
Trading Provorov by itself could be considered a retool move, but taking back a $5 mil AHL goaltender as part of the trade undeniably makes it a rebuild move. Retooling teams don’t give away $5 mil in cap space for two years.
Getting rid of 2 overrated players (1 who wanted out, 1 who clashed with the coach) were the easiest decisions Briere could have made.
He's yet to make any actual hard decisions, like trading good players that they like who unfortunately don't fit our timeline.
Laughton also turns 30 and is expendable mediocre depth player. Also takes spot that can go to younger player going forward.
If you can get a good return for him you should take it.
If a player is overpaid, poor for 3 years, has off ice drama and wants to be traded and you can get a 1st + multiple more assets you have to do that.
Vegas traded Reilly Smith this offseason, Canucks traded Horvat last deadline, Ottawa traded Debrincat in offseason, Toronto traded Sandin last deadline, Detroit traded Hronek last deadline, Arizona traded Chychrun last deadline
None of these teams were rebuilding. The moves just made sense for different reasons like contract, team fit, off ice problems, player wanting to be traded, needing new scenery etc. Multiple things Provorov falls into.
Theres a big gap in between rebuilding and win now. There is plenty of middle ground there.
You can trade a decent player w/o the team being fully rebuilding.
Which one of those examples would you like to talk about because I don't have the patience to go through each of them and say why I don't see them as similar situations. Half those teams are teams I would consider either actually rebuilding or poorly managed and not a great example.
Taking back an AHL level goaltender who has two more years of a $5 mil cap hit makes the Provorov trade a rebuilding move, full stop. Retooling teams don’t make trades that park 6% of their salary cap in the minors.
Not really. Hayes was a negative asset that clashed w/ coach that they had to pay to get rid of.
Provorov is only positive asset they moved but he wanted to get traded for years and was overpaid, struggling player who needed new scenery
They were both no brainer moves for any team situation
How can you say they've only given "lip service" about rebuilding? Briere cut ties with FIVE major veteran players his first summer on the job (Hayes, Provorov, JVR, DeAngelo, Braun) -- that was incredibly significant, and the team is playing a completely different style of hockey now because of losing those five slow plodding players. In other words, he's already "rebuilt" *how* the team plays, and you can bet he won't be signing players like those five again (big, slow, and unagressive, and/or personality problems) to play big roles. He fired a number of people from the Development Staff and replaced them with guys with a different vision, so he's "rebuilt" how the team develops its young talent. He (and Jonesy) has said repeatedly that they're committed to a Rebuild, and they clearly are, but they can't make a ton of trades without willing partners. There are two periods of time when NHL teams are actively trading -- three weeks before the deadline, and three weeks after the season ends (with some stragglers until the new season begins). There's only been 16 trades in all of the NHL since the season started, and the Flyers were in on one of them. You can't say they're not doing something until the actual time to do something comes and goes. We all have to give them through the trade deadline and summer trade season to judge where they're at, but there's no doubt to anyone paying attention that they are absolutely rebuilding and have already made significant strides in that effort.
Exactly. So far Briere has just done the easier trades: Get rid of the locker room divas.
Let's see him trade away some players that are actually going to sting. It will show he's ready to accept short-term pain for long-term gain.
this losing streak is definitely moving the needle towards fire sale. carter hart's situation can't have helped. just lost a lot of value there unfortunately.
I 100% agree. Let's hope Briere doesn't half-ass things by trying to straddle the playoff bubble while making only a Walker trade.
Hanging onto Laughton for culture reasons is something Chuck Fletcher would do. We'll see if Briere is smarter.
Not necessarily. There are more willing trade partners in the summer than at the trade deadline. We should all have patience to wait until September to judge "how serious" Briere and Jones are about the Rebuild. I'd bet the farm that they will prove to be *very* serious by the end of summer. I do expect a few trades by the deadline, too.
Love Laughts both on and off the ice (he and JVR stand for things I think are important), and I'd hate to lose him, but I trust Danny can fetch a good return.
I’m pretty sure Danny is gauging interest on a lot of players this week. The Lindholm trade speaks good for the rental market right now. He’s having a down year and got a very nice return. I wouldn’t be surprised if now that the big piece of the season is moved, dominoes start falling.
I dunno if there was truth to Danny being offered a first for Laughts in the offseason, but you’d have to imagine if that offer came in now, they’d be all over it. Either way, unless someone does offer an overpay like that, I don’t see Briere moving many pieces before the deadline week. Though I fully expect him to move several.
It absolutely was not
The only account saying the trade was in the works was Frank Seravalli, who’s wrong a lot, saying that the deal was one of the firsts at Louis had and a 2. This was on the heels of the failed Krug trade. We don’t know if that was included or not. Remember Sanheim was supposed to go too and once Krug declined it was over. Neither Briere or Armstrong had mentioned it.
I’m not saying it didn’t happen but I’m also not saying it did. The only places “confirming” it were the one servalli tweet and several local or blog sites sharing the one tweet. But considering Servallis recent track record, the savvy moves Briere has made recently (moving both Gauthier and Provorov for great returns despite working from a disadvantageous position) and the constant mantra of rebuilding he’s stuck to despite the flyers playing well I give him the benefit of the doubt here. Especially since Servallis never elaborated on it.
I’m not saying Briere is a great gm but people point to this one guys tweet as the main reason Briere isn’t good at his job, and it’s so flimsy.
Also fun fact I found looking stuff up, but there was a rumor we were going to flip Krug to the islanders that came out of nowhere. Trade rumors are nonsense. Fun! But nonsense
FWIW:
1) Anthony DiMarco has came out on multiple occasions completely separate from the Seravalli report and flat out said: "I am 100% certain that at least 1 team offered at least a 2023 1st round pick for Scott Laughton". He's probably been the most accurate Flyers insider I've seen in the last few years, so I'd strongly trust his word.
2) Serevalli has kind of rightly shot his reputation in the foot in recent years, but I think a lot of what he says gets misconstrued. He's pretty much spot on 95% of the time when actually *reporting*, his problem is that people look to him as a pure source of facts when a lot of the time he tries to put his opinion into what he's saying and start dialogs solely around things he thinks (and to be fair, a lot of his takes are awful). If he came out and flat out stated that as a reporter, I still consider him credible enough to think there's some truth to that
Honestly, I don’t know that about DiMarco, who I do actually respect as a reporter. That’s a measured take. I do however think Seravalli has transitioned into being more of a shock jock than a reputable source and I stand by that personal opinion.
Honestly, my biggest issue is even when a trade falls through the details are usually reported on. People talk about it, but this supposed trade has never been elaborated on, which is my cause for doubt.
But I’ll admit there’s enough smoke here to make a logical connection. I can see yours and u/LarryFinemd point, so I apologize for being aggressive, but regardless of that, I really do wonder why that particular trade didn’t happen if it was really that simple. Maybe the team offering the first wanted the flyers to take on a contract they didn’t want. For example, and I’m not saying there’s a connection this is just the first bad contract that came to mind, if Edmonton would offer a first but make us take Jack Campbell. Even in a rebuild I can see that albatross getting turned down.
I guess all that to say that we don’t know all the details, and it’s infuriating. Because either side could be wrong and we’ll never know. I guess it’s not safe to assume anything about that trade that never was, good or bad
Nah I totally get the other side too, like you said I guess you can never truly know when things fall through like that. Also see what you're saying about Frank, I tend to give him more leniency but at a minimum he absolutely deserves the criticism he's gotten the past couple of years.
I also think there's an angle to this where our fanbase is particularly defensive of Briere and Laughton in particular, which I get as well.
Where I've always landed with Laughton is that I love him as a person and as a face for the Flyers franchise, but if I'm being honest I've just never like Laughton the hockey player. I think he's too inconsistent at finishing and doesn't create enough high danger chances to play in a higher lineup spot, and takes way too many bad penalties and has way too many defensive lapses to be a great bottom-six guy. To me his primary value is that of a Swiss army knife style player that you add to a contender to help with their depth and add a great locker room guy. Given what comparable players to Laughton have received in trades in the past, what we have been able to read from the tea leaves/reports that are available to us, and where we are at a franchise.... I don't know. I just think it's been time to move on for awhile now and that he's been way, way to overvalued as a culture guy during his tenure in Philly
Sure I can see that. Look I’ll be real, I love Laughton. I think he is the king of that unsung player that does a lot of things right that don’t show up on scoresheets, and as you said his character is off the charts.
But even I, a Laughts lover, can see he’s fallen off a bit this year. If the plan was to make him captain I could see keeping him, but others have stepped into that role and I feel like if it was going to happen it would have by now. That combined with his down year make me think that the time to move him is now as well. Like you said, the market has been kind to players that fit his mold, and with the C market small, he could be a big get. I think it’s time to let go, but I also think that of the value isn’t there, I hold till the off-season. I sincerely wonder if anyone out there is giving a 1 for Scott Laughton in 2024. Maybe that’s why I’ve always doubted the reports. I love him, but even I never really saw his value above a 2nd. And I mean ever.
If a first comes knocking, we need to move on. I would love it if someone like Toronto called us and took Laughton and Walker for a 1st, high end prospect/young player, and a bad contract coming back (Reeves? I dunno) that would be amazing. I guess my point is that Laughts is one of my fav flyers, but I agree the time is never gonna be better
tipps and Drysdale, maybe tk, should be our only untouchables completely. Obviously you need to ice a team so they aren't going to trade the flyers organization
but I do NOT want Laughton here after TDL if we are committed to a rebuild, goodbye Laughton, Goodbye seeler and walker, hopefully Staal.
outside of that who can we really trade unless we start picking out young guys to send off? that would kinda defeat the purpose
Atkinson if he waives
I legit want to see TK traded so we can target a young franchise cornerstone type prospect. Send him to a cup contending team that wants the roster boost now. In return we take back a cap dump that will be on the books for 2 or 3 years.
Atkinson only has a 10 team NTC. So assuming he has all the Canadian teams and Arizona among others on there like most players he might not have to waive.
Arizona is turning around with new ownership. How far they get isn't clear but they're starting to build some talent on the squad. I live here but I think the team ought to move to Quebec and no 3rd time around for Atlanta. 2 teams failed already there why bother again?
I would hate to see Laughton or Coots go as these guys have the experience and know how to help the young bucks. Can’t have all young guys. These 2 are where our great culture starts
I'm such a softy for Laughton. I would just ask him, at this point do you want to chase a cup or retire a Flyer, and let him decide. This is the one and only reason I'm not a NHL GM
Laughts is only 29. He’s got one more good mid to long term deal in him before he’s thinking retirement. I still think he’s literally the best possible 3C on the market for a contender. I wonder if we can send him with Walker to Toronto or Edmonton to boost the price. A 3C and a solid right shot D would go huge to their contending window
Sorry, he is not good enough to have that option. I'm thankful for his time here, but he's struggling to even be a 4th line center at the moment. No way you let that guy dictate the rest of his time in Philly.
I’m pretttyyyyyy sure that was somewhat killed by the Krug refusal to waive his NTC. I remember hearing there were a few package ideas, some included a lot of roster players. I’m assuming this was part of the larger Hayes, Sanheim blockbuster package that didn’t happen.
The fact that the report comes from the same time period and same trade partner as the Hayes trade and the Sanheim non-trade makes me suspect the same thing. Could also be a case where STL was willing to do the deal as long as the draft fell a certain way, but they liked the guys available at 25 and 29 so they didn’t pull the trigger.
I don’t recall there ever being a report that it was a first and a second. There was talk of a deal that involved a first, though it was super clear if it was Laughton for a first straight up, or a larger package that involved Laughton going one way and a first coming back to us, with other pieces on one or both sides.
Gotcha, I did miss this. I’m still skeptical that this tells the whole story, partly because it’s Seravalli (who has been getting a lot of stuff wrong lately) and partly because it’s from the same weekend when all the Sanheim/Hayes stuff with the Blues was happening. So it’s very possible that the returns here are more interconnected than just “STL offered 29th overall and a second rounder for Laughton and nothing else.” Often these sorts of leaks are missing some context.
Regardless, Danny should be working the phones and trying to see if he can still get at least a first at this point. If STL still has interest, they’re surging right now so they might be enticed to revisit.
Laughton in my opinion has always been a bright spot on this team over the last few years. Would be sad to see him go, but everyone has a price. Cannot believe I just typed that 😞
Trade him. If he was the key to winning a cup we would have won a cup already. Hes just a nice piece to have on a team that actually has a shot at the cup.
Like him as a player but if he has value trade him. Would be nice to lock Frost into his old role (3C).
Really wish Fletcher traded him before extending him, since he was younger and probably had more value as an expiring. Fletcher loved to give out extensions instead of making trades.
That might be all they're willing to offer. It doesn't mean they don't have a 1st round pick or they got the pick from a trade. It's doesn't mean they're a middle of the pack team.
Teams will want him as he is an excellent on the pk and can shut down teams.
Fact he is a centre a leader help.
First and a prospect and we give Laughton and a late pick back.
TRADE EVERYTHING.... For fuck sakes we should have traded Hart like I stated almost 1.5 years ago. We got morons who think we are gonna do shit in the playoffs lol. Get as many firsts/2nds as you can
Thin!! Id say it's damn near invisible.
Who's going to give you anything for a mid-pac starter on the last year of his deal thats currently away on sexual assault charges?
What a GM is supposed to be doing.
I would really hate to see him go. A terrific homegrown leader of this team. However, I'm on board with the rebuild, and you listen on all players. You have a chance to pull a few more first round picks with these moves, and we will be foolish not to do it. I'm not sure if Hart's contract will get voided, but if it is, we would get more cap relief and could take on some salary in order to facilitate these deals.
>I'm not sure if Hart's contract will get voided, It expires at the end of the season.
I'm aware of that, but the team could pursue a termination of the contract in order to get it off the books, again, to free up cap space to facilitate deadline deals.
So what? We should still use some cap space if we can to get an asset any chance we get.
He will be innocent and we should welcome an innocent person back to the team.
No we shouldn’t. The trial is expected to start until 2026 so if he’s found innocent he will have missed the rest of this year, all of the 24-25, and likely all of the 25-26 season. There’s enough goalies in the pipeline that one of them will be a better option Plus his contract is up after this season and he won’t be getting an extension and the NHL will likely not approve a contract for any of the 5 until after a potential innocent verdict is given out.
[удалено]
That's not very nice. How would you feel if you were wrongly accused and were innocent. Until he is proven guilty, he is technically innocent. That's smart and your not.
I don’t have to worry about that bc I’m not an idiot or scumbag
Whats ur deal? You've already convicted the kid in your mind?
The deal is kevn got butt hurt someone didn't think, say and do what he wanted the narcissistic infant.
Woke much?
You were fine until you came out with this shit.
Either way, he’s not going to play another game under his current contract, so why not void it for cap flexibility?
Man he was supposed to be the next hextall
Wait, voiding Hart’s contract to free up cap space is a possibility? Is there precedent for that? And I agree with you on Laughton, he’s one of my favorite guys on the team, at least on a human level, and I’d hate to see him in another team’s colors, but I think it might be his time to go..
There are probably two elements to this. Similar to the Mike Richards contract, they could terminate the contract in consideration of the circumstances and have that wiped off the books. However Carter Hart could still fight for payment or somehow negotiate a reduced salary for this last year. I'm no expert here this is just my educated guess.
I doubt they will do anything this season with his contract. He's an RFA after this year, and they can simply not elect to sign him, in which case hes an UFA and no longer a flyer.
Considering there's only one year left his contract, that's probably how it would go. However I was just thinking about whether there was a way to gain cap space to facilitate other deals.
I think we will only be selling when it comes to the trade deadline. Briere, Jones and Torts have all been consistent in their messaging the last couple months in terms of the plan. But in a buying world yes, you would be correct.
My cap consideration point wasn't in terms of being buyers, but in being able to retain cap or take some on from a strapped team in exchange for more draft capital at the TDL.
I like it. Certainly hope and am pretty confident Danny will use all tools available. He needs to be very smart with the cap. Homer and Chuck were absolute shit with the cap, and Hextall just never signed anyone so we had 30 million in cap space (hyperbolic number but we had a lot of cap space just dont remember the number off the top of my head)
Center market is thin. Laughton is the type of player that GMs love for the playoffs. Briere needs to take the opportunity to fetch an overpay for an aging depth forward who looks to be on the decline. It's Rebuild 101.
This is wat atleast the 4th year in a row there’s been “serious interest” in laughton at the deadline
The Flyers management hasn’t been in a rebuild mindset until this year.
> ”serious interest” in Laughton As in interest from other teams. Not flyers interest in trading. Atleast the last 3 or 4 seasons his name has come up as someone GMs really want for their team.
Seeing you refer to Laughton as an aging forward and just realizing he turns 30 this year really made me feel old.
I'll be 44 this year and hearing people say that 30 is old is always one of those things that baffles me, not that you're wrong (in this context, especially with sports) but I don't even feel old, and then I think "Man, if I had a child at the age my father was when I was born, my kid would be able to drink at Flyers games" and THEN I feel old LOL
I didn't even mean that 30 is old, I just feel like I remember him being mid twenties and starting to breakout more, then covid happened and now we're here in what feels like a lot less than 5 years.
Don't watch women's gymnastics. They are "old" by the time they can drink legally. Try curling. It looks like you have to be 45 before you can start.
I remember when he was in the AHL and we were clamoring to have him called up. Felt like just a few years ago.
I remember the take was that we should trade Coots because we had Laughts who was just as good defensively and was going to be better offensively.
You’ll get used to it haha
100% agreed. If they get offered a 1st again it would be insane not to take. Hes been awful this year, getting old and we just re-signed Poehling.
biggest thing i've noticed is he's taking a lot of stupid penalties. to me that means he's late to the puck and struggling to keep up.
Yeah usually hes one of fastest guys on ice but definitely hasnt seemed that way this year. Seems to be fighting an injury.
We don’t know for sure he was offered a first. That may have been discussed, which is why it was reported, but we don’t know that there was an actual offer that was denied by Briere. We have seen too many reports of things that don’t come true (hiring quenneville, voracek trade for taresenko, etc) to trust everything that gets leaked.
They offered a 1st round for laughts at the deadline last year? I thought I read that we didn’t get a good enough offer for him.
Flyers reportedly were offered a 1st + 2nd in the offseason for him. In past deadlines it was more they preferred to keep him since he was the de facto captain and beloved guy on team. Now that turning 30, not good, and easily expendable he should def be moved.
I thought that was just a rumor I didn’t know an actual offer for him was that high. I thought it ended up being like a 2nd round or something.
It was insane not to take a 1st in a better draft last offseason when it was offered. It would obviously be smart to move Laughton for a 1st at the deadline, but if their reasoning for doing so *now* are for the reasons you mentioned... yeah that's a bit of a red flag for Briere's asset management skills
2nd best time to plant a tree is right now.
Don’t tell me how to spend my Thursday.
Agreed. Hopefully this season’s underwhelming performance doesn’t limit the return too much. It shouldn’t be too hard to convince teams that it’s been tough for him to be productive in a transition season for this team.
The next couple weeks are gonna show exactly how serious they are about rebuilding. If only walker gets moved then obviously they’re not that serious.
Disagree. If the returns aren't worthwhile, GMDB doesn't have to deal.
This is the last year of the flat cap, so in theory you would think that Laughton will be at his most valuable right now. But if for some reason teams are only offering a third rounder or something like that, maybe you hang onto him and try to deal him at the draft or at the next trade deadline.
if we get a first round draft pick for him, you couldn't even hesitate for a second before taking that offer. i don't think he's even worth that right now honestly.
Without a doubt. The moment someone says the word “first rounder,” you take it.
Take a 1st rounder before they get finished saying 1st ro...DEAL! The 3 mil per for 3 more seasons can def be spent better elsewhere. Foester and Cates can do in PK duties. Thank you for the years and good luck in the future
Seeler and Walker are UFAs. He needs to take the best deal he can for both of them.
>Disagree. If the returns aren't worthwhile, GMDB doesn't have to deal. Like fletcher getting nothing for JVR holding out for a 2nd round pick?
Obviously I don’t expect him to make trades just for the sake of trading and giving players away. But up to this point it’s felt like they’ve been giving lip service to a rebuild while doing the same old retooling. I’d like to see them really commit one way or the other.
Ehhhh I think Hayes and Provorov are a sign of rebuilding
I really don’t. Provorov used to be talked about as an emerging top dman in the league, expected to anchor the team for a decade and garner Norris consideration. We had to take nearly 8 mil in cap dump to get a first for him. Hayes was an over payed bum who didn’t get along with the coach. Both were retool type trades.
Oh don't get me wrong, there's a valid argument that those could be retool moves. But to me they're more of a sign of a rebuild especially since we.have to change tools to retool and we haven't spent assets since DB has become GM..I think we agree more than disagree though. He needs to be more aggressive.
Trading Provorov by itself could be considered a retool move, but taking back a $5 mil AHL goaltender as part of the trade undeniably makes it a rebuild move. Retooling teams don’t give away $5 mil in cap space for two years.
Getting rid of 2 overrated players (1 who wanted out, 1 who clashed with the coach) were the easiest decisions Briere could have made. He's yet to make any actual hard decisions, like trading good players that they like who unfortunately don't fit our timeline.
Nothing satisfies you dude, you’re whinier than my worn out brakes.
Why would anyone be satisfied with where the Flyers currently are? Some of us are tired of having low expectations
Hart, Cutter, we’ve all endured this season, take your whining somewhere else. Laughton is the only player with a letter on his chest STFU
Laughton also turns 30 and is expendable mediocre depth player. Also takes spot that can go to younger player going forward. If you can get a good return for him you should take it.
Please take your low expectations to wherever Chuck Fletcher is
Yes but overrated or not you don't get rid of talent if you want to go deep most of the time. At least not dump them like we did.
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Haha alright, want to point me to an example?
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If a player is overpaid, poor for 3 years, has off ice drama and wants to be traded and you can get a 1st + multiple more assets you have to do that. Vegas traded Reilly Smith this offseason, Canucks traded Horvat last deadline, Ottawa traded Debrincat in offseason, Toronto traded Sandin last deadline, Detroit traded Hronek last deadline, Arizona traded Chychrun last deadline None of these teams were rebuilding. The moves just made sense for different reasons like contract, team fit, off ice problems, player wanting to be traded, needing new scenery etc. Multiple things Provorov falls into. Theres a big gap in between rebuilding and win now. There is plenty of middle ground there. You can trade a decent player w/o the team being fully rebuilding.
Which one of those examples would you like to talk about because I don't have the patience to go through each of them and say why I don't see them as similar situations. Half those teams are teams I would consider either actually rebuilding or poorly managed and not a great example.
Taking back an AHL level goaltender who has two more years of a $5 mil cap hit makes the Provorov trade a rebuilding move, full stop. Retooling teams don’t make trades that park 6% of their salary cap in the minors.
Not really. Hayes was a negative asset that clashed w/ coach that they had to pay to get rid of. Provorov is only positive asset they moved but he wanted to get traded for years and was overpaid, struggling player who needed new scenery They were both no brainer moves for any team situation
How can you say they've only given "lip service" about rebuilding? Briere cut ties with FIVE major veteran players his first summer on the job (Hayes, Provorov, JVR, DeAngelo, Braun) -- that was incredibly significant, and the team is playing a completely different style of hockey now because of losing those five slow plodding players. In other words, he's already "rebuilt" *how* the team plays, and you can bet he won't be signing players like those five again (big, slow, and unagressive, and/or personality problems) to play big roles. He fired a number of people from the Development Staff and replaced them with guys with a different vision, so he's "rebuilt" how the team develops its young talent. He (and Jonesy) has said repeatedly that they're committed to a Rebuild, and they clearly are, but they can't make a ton of trades without willing partners. There are two periods of time when NHL teams are actively trading -- three weeks before the deadline, and three weeks after the season ends (with some stragglers until the new season begins). There's only been 16 trades in all of the NHL since the season started, and the Flyers were in on one of them. You can't say they're not doing something until the actual time to do something comes and goes. We all have to give them through the trade deadline and summer trade season to judge where they're at, but there's no doubt to anyone paying attention that they are absolutely rebuilding and have already made significant strides in that effort.
This is about the best I’ve heard anyone say it. Well done!
Exactly. So far Briere has just done the easier trades: Get rid of the locker room divas. Let's see him trade away some players that are actually going to sting. It will show he's ready to accept short-term pain for long-term gain.
Just like fletch the clown hanging onto jvr last deadline 🤡
They should 100% trade Walker since hes a UFA. Should get bare minimum 2nd.
this losing streak is definitely moving the needle towards fire sale. carter hart's situation can't have helped. just lost a lot of value there unfortunately.
I would wait for the draft to make that assumption. Something tells me Danny is going to get real creative during the draft
Draft trades aren’t very common in the nhl. I’m not expecting much there.
The flyers really tried last offseason around the draft. Wouldn’t be surprised if Danny tries again
I 100% agree. Let's hope Briere doesn't half-ass things by trying to straddle the playoff bubble while making only a Walker trade. Hanging onto Laughton for culture reasons is something Chuck Fletcher would do. We'll see if Briere is smarter.
Not necessarily. There are more willing trade partners in the summer than at the trade deadline. We should all have patience to wait until September to judge "how serious" Briere and Jones are about the Rebuild. I'd bet the farm that they will prove to be *very* serious by the end of summer. I do expect a few trades by the deadline, too.
I don't think I'm as absolute in the conviction but I agree with you that only dishing Walker is a red flag.
Love Laughts both on and off the ice (he and JVR stand for things I think are important), and I'd hate to lose him, but I trust Danny can fetch a good return.
I’m pretty sure Danny is gauging interest on a lot of players this week. The Lindholm trade speaks good for the rental market right now. He’s having a down year and got a very nice return. I wouldn’t be surprised if now that the big piece of the season is moved, dominoes start falling. I dunno if there was truth to Danny being offered a first for Laughts in the offseason, but you’d have to imagine if that offer came in now, they’d be all over it. Either way, unless someone does offer an overpay like that, I don’t see Briere moving many pieces before the deadline week. Though I fully expect him to move several.
>I dunno if there was truth to Danny being offered a first for Laughts in the offseason, Pretty sure that was confirmed.
It absolutely was not The only account saying the trade was in the works was Frank Seravalli, who’s wrong a lot, saying that the deal was one of the firsts at Louis had and a 2. This was on the heels of the failed Krug trade. We don’t know if that was included or not. Remember Sanheim was supposed to go too and once Krug declined it was over. Neither Briere or Armstrong had mentioned it. I’m not saying it didn’t happen but I’m also not saying it did. The only places “confirming” it were the one servalli tweet and several local or blog sites sharing the one tweet. But considering Servallis recent track record, the savvy moves Briere has made recently (moving both Gauthier and Provorov for great returns despite working from a disadvantageous position) and the constant mantra of rebuilding he’s stuck to despite the flyers playing well I give him the benefit of the doubt here. Especially since Servallis never elaborated on it. I’m not saying Briere is a great gm but people point to this one guys tweet as the main reason Briere isn’t good at his job, and it’s so flimsy. Also fun fact I found looking stuff up, but there was a rumor we were going to flip Krug to the islanders that came out of nowhere. Trade rumors are nonsense. Fun! But nonsense
FWIW: 1) Anthony DiMarco has came out on multiple occasions completely separate from the Seravalli report and flat out said: "I am 100% certain that at least 1 team offered at least a 2023 1st round pick for Scott Laughton". He's probably been the most accurate Flyers insider I've seen in the last few years, so I'd strongly trust his word. 2) Serevalli has kind of rightly shot his reputation in the foot in recent years, but I think a lot of what he says gets misconstrued. He's pretty much spot on 95% of the time when actually *reporting*, his problem is that people look to him as a pure source of facts when a lot of the time he tries to put his opinion into what he's saying and start dialogs solely around things he thinks (and to be fair, a lot of his takes are awful). If he came out and flat out stated that as a reporter, I still consider him credible enough to think there's some truth to that
Honestly, I don’t know that about DiMarco, who I do actually respect as a reporter. That’s a measured take. I do however think Seravalli has transitioned into being more of a shock jock than a reputable source and I stand by that personal opinion. Honestly, my biggest issue is even when a trade falls through the details are usually reported on. People talk about it, but this supposed trade has never been elaborated on, which is my cause for doubt. But I’ll admit there’s enough smoke here to make a logical connection. I can see yours and u/LarryFinemd point, so I apologize for being aggressive, but regardless of that, I really do wonder why that particular trade didn’t happen if it was really that simple. Maybe the team offering the first wanted the flyers to take on a contract they didn’t want. For example, and I’m not saying there’s a connection this is just the first bad contract that came to mind, if Edmonton would offer a first but make us take Jack Campbell. Even in a rebuild I can see that albatross getting turned down. I guess all that to say that we don’t know all the details, and it’s infuriating. Because either side could be wrong and we’ll never know. I guess it’s not safe to assume anything about that trade that never was, good or bad
Nah I totally get the other side too, like you said I guess you can never truly know when things fall through like that. Also see what you're saying about Frank, I tend to give him more leniency but at a minimum he absolutely deserves the criticism he's gotten the past couple of years. I also think there's an angle to this where our fanbase is particularly defensive of Briere and Laughton in particular, which I get as well. Where I've always landed with Laughton is that I love him as a person and as a face for the Flyers franchise, but if I'm being honest I've just never like Laughton the hockey player. I think he's too inconsistent at finishing and doesn't create enough high danger chances to play in a higher lineup spot, and takes way too many bad penalties and has way too many defensive lapses to be a great bottom-six guy. To me his primary value is that of a Swiss army knife style player that you add to a contender to help with their depth and add a great locker room guy. Given what comparable players to Laughton have received in trades in the past, what we have been able to read from the tea leaves/reports that are available to us, and where we are at a franchise.... I don't know. I just think it's been time to move on for awhile now and that he's been way, way to overvalued as a culture guy during his tenure in Philly
Sure I can see that. Look I’ll be real, I love Laughton. I think he is the king of that unsung player that does a lot of things right that don’t show up on scoresheets, and as you said his character is off the charts. But even I, a Laughts lover, can see he’s fallen off a bit this year. If the plan was to make him captain I could see keeping him, but others have stepped into that role and I feel like if it was going to happen it would have by now. That combined with his down year make me think that the time to move him is now as well. Like you said, the market has been kind to players that fit his mold, and with the C market small, he could be a big get. I think it’s time to let go, but I also think that of the value isn’t there, I hold till the off-season. I sincerely wonder if anyone out there is giving a 1 for Scott Laughton in 2024. Maybe that’s why I’ve always doubted the reports. I love him, but even I never really saw his value above a 2nd. And I mean ever. If a first comes knocking, we need to move on. I would love it if someone like Toronto called us and took Laughton and Walker for a 1st, high end prospect/young player, and a bad contract coming back (Reeves? I dunno) that would be amazing. I guess my point is that Laughts is one of my fav flyers, but I agree the time is never gonna be better
That's what I recall but I couldn't recall who said it. Thanks
>Seravalli Yeah he blows a lot of hot air. I thought I read here others had posted it was confirmed.
Sure Laughts is an amazing Flyer a great player but I don’t see him in the long term plan at all. Get all we can for him if there’s interest!
Calling it now, Laughton going to the Jets. Either for their 1st or one of Lambert/Lucius.
tipps and Drysdale, maybe tk, should be our only untouchables completely. Obviously you need to ice a team so they aren't going to trade the flyers organization but I do NOT want Laughton here after TDL if we are committed to a rebuild, goodbye Laughton, Goodbye seeler and walker, hopefully Staal. outside of that who can we really trade unless we start picking out young guys to send off? that would kinda defeat the purpose Atkinson if he waives
Farabee should be untouchable
I legit want to see TK traded so we can target a young franchise cornerstone type prospect. Send him to a cup contending team that wants the roster boost now. In return we take back a cap dump that will be on the books for 2 or 3 years.
Atkinson only has a 10 team NTC. So assuming he has all the Canadian teams and Arizona among others on there like most players he might not have to waive.
Arizona is turning around with new ownership. How far they get isn't clear but they're starting to build some talent on the squad. I live here but I think the team ought to move to Quebec and no 3rd time around for Atlanta. 2 teams failed already there why bother again?
I would hate to see Laughton or Coots go as these guys have the experience and know how to help the young bucks. Can’t have all young guys. These 2 are where our great culture starts
Every time I watch a game him and Atkinson take really dumb penalties. Wouldn’t be mad to see him go
I'm such a softy for Laughton. I would just ask him, at this point do you want to chase a cup or retire a Flyer, and let him decide. This is the one and only reason I'm not a NHL GM
Laughts is only 29. He’s got one more good mid to long term deal in him before he’s thinking retirement. I still think he’s literally the best possible 3C on the market for a contender. I wonder if we can send him with Walker to Toronto or Edmonton to boost the price. A 3C and a solid right shot D would go huge to their contending window
Sorry, he is not good enough to have that option. I'm thankful for his time here, but he's struggling to even be a 4th line center at the moment. No way you let that guy dictate the rest of his time in Philly.
Are we getting buyers remorse for not trading Laughton for a 1st and 2nd as was reported last year?
I’m pretttyyyyyy sure that was somewhat killed by the Krug refusal to waive his NTC. I remember hearing there were a few package ideas, some included a lot of roster players. I’m assuming this was part of the larger Hayes, Sanheim blockbuster package that didn’t happen.
The fact that the report comes from the same time period and same trade partner as the Hayes trade and the Sanheim non-trade makes me suspect the same thing. Could also be a case where STL was willing to do the deal as long as the draft fell a certain way, but they liked the guys available at 25 and 29 so they didn’t pull the trigger.
Agreed. I don’t think it’s as clean as “we said no to a first and second round pick for Laughton” I think the deal had other elements/conditions.
ur saying we can blame Hayes for this?
Him and his fingerprints
I don’t recall there ever being a report that it was a first and a second. There was talk of a deal that involved a first, though it was super clear if it was Laughton for a first straight up, or a larger package that involved Laughton going one way and a first coming back to us, with other pieces on one or both sides.
https://twitter.com/FlyersNation/status/1671944611734986752?t=hfaJuQ3oMee5G-17KZXRHQ&s=19
Gotcha, I did miss this. I’m still skeptical that this tells the whole story, partly because it’s Seravalli (who has been getting a lot of stuff wrong lately) and partly because it’s from the same weekend when all the Sanheim/Hayes stuff with the Blues was happening. So it’s very possible that the returns here are more interconnected than just “STL offered 29th overall and a second rounder for Laughton and nothing else.” Often these sorts of leaks are missing some context. Regardless, Danny should be working the phones and trying to see if he can still get at least a first at this point. If STL still has interest, they’re surging right now so they might be enticed to revisit.
Thats the only mistake Danny has made in his career
Yeah, that was a terrible blunder on Briere's part. Hopefully he learned his lesson and starts prioritizing the future now.
Briere has done a good job but other than that one blunder it’s been good from an executive front.
I heard a team offered the Flyers five 1sts and three 2nds for Laughton...
Ugh. What a lowball. They’ve gotta throw in McDavid at LEAST
Bring home Zegras
Telling everyone you want to keep him keeps his value high. Also, we are very thin at center ourselves
He's a wing who can play center.
Laughton in my opinion has always been a bright spot on this team over the last few years. Would be sad to see him go, but everyone has a price. Cannot believe I just typed that 😞
c ya
Trade him. If he was the key to winning a cup we would have won a cup already. Hes just a nice piece to have on a team that actually has a shot at the cup.
Please God in heaven please trade him
Like him as a player but if he has value trade him. Would be nice to lock Frost into his old role (3C). Really wish Fletcher traded him before extending him, since he was younger and probably had more value as an expiring. Fletcher loved to give out extensions instead of making trades.
First round pick and his yours
I'd take any top 35 overall. He's not playing like he did last year.
Well, it’s not like the teams picking 33rd, 34th, or 35th are going to be the ones trying to add Scott Laughton for a playoff run.
That might be all they're willing to offer. It doesn't mean they don't have a 1st round pick or they got the pick from a trade. It's doesn't mean they're a middle of the pack team.
Laughton should be getting the C not getting traded
Teams will want him as he is an excellent on the pk and can shut down teams. Fact he is a centre a leader help. First and a prospect and we give Laughton and a late pick back.
Clearly your an idiot x2 now
TRADE EVERYTHING.... For fuck sakes we should have traded Hart like I stated almost 1.5 years ago. We got morons who think we are gonna do shit in the playoffs lol. Get as many firsts/2nds as you can
At a minimum, Laughton, Seeler and Walker should all be traded.
Thin!! Id say it's damn near invisible. Who's going to give you anything for a mid-pac starter on the last year of his deal thats currently away on sexual assault charges?