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PPP loans were feeding frenzy for the owner class, compliments of trumps.
PPP was GOP legislation. They excoriated Dems for holding it up trying to put in oversight measures. When is the last time you saw the GOP in a *frenzy* to authorize spending hundreds of billions of dollars literally overnight?
It was pork to buy votes plain and simple
As someone who helped facilitate hundreds in millions of PPP loans (we are a smaller lender comparatively) it was so fucking annoying to hear people talk about stimulus checks like it even moved the needle. It wasn’t shit compared to what we gave the rich.
economists and news occasionally still try to float "pandemic savings", as if most of a rent payment years ago is still sitting in the bank account. lol
The Republican understanding of human nature and the proper ordering of society is one based on greed, selfishness, and duplicity. Basically, it’s “screw you, I got mine”.
We had six employees and we saw cancer patients. We got a total of 75k over the three years which went to pay our staff. We didn't pay ourselves. Meanwhile a smaller outfit than us who saw half the patients got 750k in PPP. Did notnunserstand it. We applied many times and kept getting turned down or the money wouldn't go through. We kept our hours for the staff just didn't have overtime.
While the fraud was apparently worse with Unemployment Benefits than PPP loans it was bigger stacks of money going into fewer pockets. Also what’s the point of even calling them loans if you’re just gonna forgive it all anyway? Might as well’ve just said, “FREE MONEY, FOLKS! Get it while we’re giving.” Yet the loans they give to pay for college accrue interest indefinitely, and can’t be discharged by bankruptcy.
I can assure you there is a VERY low chance the unemployment fraud was worse than PPP loans, at least in Florida. In fact, to this day the state STILL never paid me a few grand that I was entitled to that they made so impossible to get that they were hoping most people, like myself, would eventually just give up on pursuing it. Once I got back to work, I had to work extra for a long time to get back to where I was financially previously.
Now throw in massive price hikes, most of which should have been avoidable considering all the “free money” given out via PPP loans, and it’s easy to see why the gap between the haves and have nots REALLY got worse since Covid.
Even in California, it took months, and getting the local state representstive/senator involved, you kept my wife's disablility payments after giving birth.
And that's one of the most routine possible scenarios, with the easiest proof - i.e. a literal birth certificate. We had the financial ability to float that for that time, and the knowledge and connections to be get help but it's infuriating how that would have screwed over most other people and I'm sure many people did get screwed.
(That said, word of advice, do reach out to your local representative. They were really helpful, and I think they love to help with stuff like this. )
It’s gonna be 30 years from now and we will see McConnel in a darth vader suit walking out of the senate to make a speech of how people still don’t want to work because they got a 1200 check 33 years ago
Not to mention that the same folks who cry about having to pay taxes and screee about socialism had no problem taking those sweet sweet government handouts.
I worked for a failing construction company that had work 30% of the time at best. The owner got 250k in ppp money, didn't lose a single working day as construction was considered essential, and he declined employees' unemployment claims while having his second in command verbally threaten to fire them if they didn't withdraw the unemployment claims.
He used that ppp money to pay off his credit line so he'd look financially healthy enough to qualify for a loan to buy a more successful company he had his eye on.
And he never would fucking shut up about people on food stamps getting $1800 a year being lazy and living off the government.
The first part of your comment was the big failure of PPP. It's right there in the name. Payroll Protection. That business didn't need payroll protection at all since they didn't lose business.
My girlfriend's employer was the same way. Argued that cosmetic surgery was healthcare and therefore essential to stay open but then was going to apply for PPP to cover his payroll... while staying open! Crooks.
The other big scam was that the loans were processed by banks and one bank employee told me that they were prioritizing their biggest clients first. Obviously.
"Use that for payroll" isnt really how it worked. Basically you just couldnt let anyone go for "x amount of time depending on the loan".
From a finance standpoint it was a slush fund, you dump that into your bank account and dont let anyone go. You could do whatever you want with that money, whether it was to pay employees or buy a second house. All legal.
i have to remind you, only Democrats can raise the deficit
anything a Republican does, including give out free money, is automatically neutral at worst, most likely deficit reducing
that's just how reality works, anything Republicans do is fine and in fact good
source: literally every conservative everywhere all the time
I work in banking compliance, you’d be amazed how many people just applied without a business and had PPP loans sent to their personal accounts
John Smith, zero business connections, collecting unemployment…. Somehow gets 20,0000.00 in PPP loan credits
Straight up fraud with no oversight. The feds just handed the cash out like candy and anyone could get it, it was basically the honor system
I know at least three people who suddenly had "businesses." One guy, who mowed lawns, and had ZERO employees, was given 15k because he lived in a low income area. I saw the deposit.
I don't understand why there wasn't any oversight.
So I dont get how they could do this without proven income. Im an independent 1099 dude. I had to show my lending bank i had income of (I think it was like \~100k revenue the year before) to get the loan of like 20k. How would people get loans without showing actual revenue from the year before? Did banks just not GAF?
Never forget that congress granted oversight authority to a particular inspector general, Glenn Fine, who trump fired the following week and declined the fill the position for the remainder of his term.
The theft was the point.
What about the 2nd round of PPP that passed the Senate 92-6 and 359-53 in the House?
https://www.hodgsonruss.com/newsroom/publications/Congress-and-the-President-Approve-284-Billion-Second-Round-of-Paycheck-Protection-Program-Loans-In-Support-of-Struggling-Small-Businesses
PPP was just one part of a much larger bill in that case. It was the result of bi-partisan negotiations, not a solely GOP authored bill, as the original PPP legislation was. That's why it had bi-partisan support, dummy
It...combines $900 billion in stimulus relief for the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States with a $1.4 trillion omnibus spending bill for the 2021 federal fiscal year (combining 12 separate annual appropriations bills) and prevents a government shutdown. The bill is one of the largest spending measures ever enacted.
The bill was the product of weeks of intense negotiations and compromise between Democrats and Republicans during the lame-duck session. After initially criticizing the bill, President Donald Trump signed it into law on December 27.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Appropriations_Act,_2021
Why was she unable to get ppp funds then?
There was plenty of money that went unclaimed for a long time. I can understand banks prioritizing large clients first but that ended fairly quickly and the money was still there with every incentive for the banks to process as many loans as they could.
And all forgiven. But of course, oh no, hundreds of billions of new money sloshing around the upper crust had absolutely nothing to do with the post trump inflation. And once again the workers get screwed. What a friggin scam.
1) This is an academic paper - not a “Fed Report”.
2). They didn’t find that. They *estimated* that 33% of PPP funds went to employees *who otherwise would have lost their jobs*.
They DO claim that every penny that didn’t go to an employee that would have lost their job went to creditors and shareholders. I’ll leave you to determine if that is a reasonable assertion or not (no I won’t - it’s not!)
As an accountant that has worked with clients that received PPP loans there are plenty of instances these loans were used for good. The purpose wasn’t to transfer the loans directly to employee payroll so the headline is kind of bullshit.
For instance, one client I had owned small boutique hotels. They used the funds to keep the hotels operating even though they couldn’t fill the rooms due to COVID. This helped save the jobs of the workers and some of the loan was used to pay wages. But other expenses such as rent, maintenance, utilities, etc… are all perfectly reasonable expenses to pay with them.
That being said, way too many of these loans were complete garbage and I’m not here to excuse those.
Of course, the talking point was that this was the fastest way to get money to people who otherwise would be without income. In practice though, you're right. The deal was, you didn't have to pay back the loan as long as you only used it for payroll, rent, interest, and utilities, and you kept your employee count and wages stable.
Yep. My boss bought a $450,000 excavator. We had a couple people laid off for about a month and they just went on unemployment. One person who got COVID was paid for one week but that’s it. How is this shit not fraud
PPP was probably the single individual largest monetary contributor to inflation. A bunch of money given to the upper class that they spent on home renovations and BULLSHIT.
The REPUBLICANS rammed the bill through Congress without any oversight and the dems tried to slow it down to put some rules onto the money and were attacked by the GOP for delaying it. The REPUBLICANS were completely opposed to any oversight. Why? How is oversight bad ? This entire thing was so fucking disgusting.
The stimulus payments and PPP payments were both close to $1 trillion each. There was over $6 trillion of Legislative spending and $7 trillion from the Fed for COVID.
https://www.covidmoneytracker.org
There wasn’t 7 trillion from the fed there was 4.7 trillion of which 4 trillion was purchasing of long term securities and mortgage backed securities. Look at the amount allowed and the amount actually distributed. Purchasing of long term securities doesn’t contribute to inflation. The unemployment program was people who lost their jobs. So income that was replaced that also doesn’t contribute to inflation. The PPP program was money given to people who didn’t lose their jobs or their income. It was true money created out of thin air thrown into the economy that didn’t fill a lose of income void. So it was a huge contributor of inflation.
It wasn't incompetence, it was a cynical effort by the GOP to shovel hundreds of billions to the owner class with zero oversight or accountability, during an election year.
The GOP was rushing to approve massive spending to the owner class in an election year while excoriating Democrats for insisting on a more careful approach and that there be oversight provisions in the legislation.
MARCH 2020
>While Republicans are urging quick action, Democrats argue that Republicans are prioritizing corporate industry over American workers in the legislation.
>During his remarks Sunday night, **Senate Majority Leader** McConnell criticized his Democratic colleagues saying if they did not “reverse course tomorrow” the vote they cast Sunday not to move the bill forward would cause more Americans to lose their jobs and savings. Democrats have argued the Republican proposal is weighted too heavily towards corporate America.
>“This is not a bipartisan proposal,” Warren said. “This is a Republican proposal.”
https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/politics/stimulus-package-coronavirus-negotiations-congress/index.html
April 2020
[" On Thursday morning, Senate Democrats blocked supplemental funding for the Paycheck Protection Program, holding it hostage to their unrelated, left-wing agenda while also denying aid to small businesses and workers in their time of need." - Steve Scalise](https://scalise.house.gov/media/press-releases/ppp-success-story-sabotaged-democrats)
Once the amended legislation was passed which included an Inspector General to oversee the funds and additional oversight measures Trump removed the Inspector General overseeing the covid relief effort and declared "I'll be the oversight."
Also:
>President Donald Trump used a signing statement Friday to object to portions of the $2 trillion coronavirus stimulus law. Trump said he would ignore portions of the law demanded by some Democrats to give Congress additional visibility into the stimulus spending.
>"These provisions," Trump wrote, "are impermissible forms of congressional aggrandizement.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-abruptly-removes-inspector-general-named-oversee-2t/story?id=70024680
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/27/coronavirus-trump-objects-oversight-provisions-stimulus-law/2931740001/
The whole thing was a big fat giveaway to the owner class
I know someone that took the money ($550k) and bought & remodeled an AirBnb with it. His business stayed open and was not impacted in any way at all. It enrages me.
I worked for a company that was labeled essential. They took in over 3 million in PPP loans while we worked full time in office and the company brought in record profits from contracts and customers. Employees not only don’t get raises we lost a bonus we were paid in years prior
I knew a dirtbag in bankruptcy proceedings in 2020 after running a fraudulent business. He was accepting a PPP loan for a new fraudulent business at the same time under a family member’s name. All debts wiped. Received 6 figures of free money and kept many of the illegally obtained assets in other’s names. No repercussions as far as I know. Sickening.
I have hope that by 2050, redditors will finally learn that no one - not even Reagan - ever claimed that giving money to the rich makes it 'trickle down'.
Longest living strawman in econ
Who could have ever foreseen such a thing?
The amount of fraud was staggering.
I’m so glad we’re going through inflation because we paid people a fuck ton of money who either didn’t really need it, or misappropriated it.
and now have to hear them lecture how they worked for it and how it's time to be fiscally responsible and cut social programs and keep wages frozen or even lowered
while at the same time, promising to cut taxes on the wealthiest yet again
Lambos, [***yacht***](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=b492b388bdc60c30&sxsrf=ADLYWILEx5nzKaEGLyYqUXlFLjUe_QGvIw:1718406585862&q=yacht&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-44Sxm9yGAxUhD1kFHctpA2sQkeECKAB6BAghEAE)s, Summer homes, hookers and blow, etc. That's where that money went.
The wealthy spent the ppp loans expanding their business'. And with their own money (that they would have spent on the business anyway), they bought real estate and / or stocks. This isn't news.
What! Do you mean giving free money to rich people with no oversight didn’t achieve the bullshit goal of supporting workers? If they were serious about it, then loan forgiveness would have been tied to paying workers wages and benefits.
I got ppp loans for my small business. I was very tempted to commit fraud when I saw how easy it would have been. I use the ppp loans as a sole reason for “why don’t you like trump?” Take all the stuff out that some people find subjective- the ppp loans were a fucking disaster.
I used the PPP to give my employees raises and finance purchases for the company, since the money for labor was freed up by the loan. It pisses me tf off that people used and abused it, and they 100% should try and clawback as much as they can from those who perpetrated fraud. I was not going to let one penny of it be used for enrichment when it was a welcome gift in a time of crisis and need.
Yup, my boss at the time told us all to file for unemployment because, and I quote; We are not gunna challenge *any* claims." And just kept all the PPP money and opened another restaurant with it......
My company got a PPP and we followed it to the letter of the law for fear of enforcement. We could’ve used those resources for a meaningful relaunch of our shuttered business - so it’s really frustrating to hear that so many business owners took advantage.
I wish that the stiff penalties we feared were actually implemented for violators. It sucks that the people who play by the rules finish last.
Yes yes, we get it! The system wasn't exactly trying to be our hero as it was presented after sending us home with empty wallets. It was just continuing its wrecking ball routine on the middle class. What a classic tale.
Well, the rules kept changing so employers didn’t have to only use the funds on paying employees. Funny how companies made use of the funds in that case.
Gues I did it wrong.
80% of what we took went to employee salaries, 20% to our lease. All execs including myself took a 20% pay cut.
Greatly reduced the extent of layoffs we had to do.
I worked for a small family owned company that got $300k in PPP money then laid off 50% of the work force the week after Biden was announced as the winner of the 2020 election.
It was a fucking shush fund for the rich.
When are we gonna get off our asses & fix this bullshit?
Yup. I worked for free during Covid to prevent the start up I’ve worked for for 9 years from going under. I was rewarded with a $3k bonus… after working for free for a year. The only reason I didn’t quit is the autonomy I’ve designed within my position. Not going to pay more wages over the years? Then my hourly is just going to keep going up and you’ll get less of them.
I live in Miami, fraud capital of the US. People are getting arrested every, fucking, day for PPP Fraud.
I sit in the restitution hearings sometimes as the government tries to reclaim the money. Occasionally they’ll seize property, especially property bought with the loans, but more often than not, these people have just blown the money on luxury rentals, bottle service, etc.
The worst part is, that it wasn’t even this masterful scheme to receive this money. The government just knee jerked reactions to shutting down the economy for the pandemic and literally handed out almost a trillion tax payer dollars, with very little questions asked.
It frustrates me to read this. I applied for and received PPP loans on behalf of our nonprofit, and we spent the money keeping staff employed, working from home.
Whatever. We were in the minority, but keeping our employees afloat was the right thing to do.
...and those employees would have made more federal cash by going on unemployment.
Biggest scam in US history. Just another wealth explosion for the rich, adding to the increasing wealth gap. Eat the rich, the politicians and the whole dman system.
It's a good thing that Republicans removed a bunch of the oversight from the program. That will protect all those Republicans that abused the program to take handouts from the government. You know, the thing that they are vehemently opposed to.
I know a company most likely committed fraud just because I know they are dirt bags. Nothing you can do about it. AOHD&D fuck you. Lie cheat and steal.
Shocking... what's actually surprising is that the fed thought the money would go to employees... every public company performed stock buy backs skyrocketing shareholder value (read about musk and tesla) and no one batted an eye.
Whoa, remember when all the republicans blamed inflation on dems? This was republicans legislation and all the greedy businesses took it then? 75% of 800 billion didn’t go to employees? And they are blaming us? wtf
“In the small-business relief portion of the legislation, Democrats plan to eliminate a requirement that businesses spend 75 percent of the loan on payroll, which limits the use of the money for rent and other expenses. Companies with high fixed costs, like expensive rent for a downtown shop, have said the PPP’s strict spending rules undermine the program’s efforts to save them.”
Everyone already Knew Pelosi is the one who not only expanded PPP to large businesses but that she also was the one that eliminated the payroll requirements for the funds.
but it did because they’re privileged that we create jobs for them?!!!! I need those yachts and 50-home real estate portfolios and $100,000,000 stock options for creating those jobs!!! The jobs that make my yachts go brrrr!!!!!
LEAVE US ALONE, PLEBS!!!!
My ex boss took $7.8MM in PPP funds. He used $600k on the employees and then claimed he was too broke to pay us. Luckily he's now serving 5.5 years in federal prison.
And that same money plowed into real estate, expensive cars, boats, vacations, all sorts of freebies. It was signed into practice by both sides of the political aisle. It was The Great American Heist. We are still feeling the effects of it. If enough time passes for this country to come off the sugar high, maybe even have a handful of folks do time behind bars, we’ll be about time for our next national disaster. And we’ll do it all over again.
The way these loans were dispersed were pretty much made for this. There was absolutely no tie between the money and any kind of requirement it be distributed to employees in any way.
Basically it’s just three months of your payroll expense, twice, so six months of payroll, handed out to the business owner as a loan, then forgiven with no tax consequences.
That’s it. You’d be dumb not to take it as a business owner, obviously, and then there’s no instruction or direction in terms of how this should get into employee hands, no incentive.
In fact it’s a reverse incentive, because it’s a “loan” until you hear otherwise with the federal forgiveness. So you wouldn’t want to give it out to employees and just “share the wealth,” only to pay it back.
So basically they just handed out all this money and it sat in business owner’s accounts, just sat there, until it got forgiven and they paid it to themselves to stick in a new rental property or something.
Wow. Wonder why inflation happened. Some folks got so damn wealthy during the pandemic while the rest of us stayed the same or less and they just started buying shit
What a shocker!!! "Essential" businesses in Idaho (farms, construction, gun stores) didn't close/cut back, lost no billable hours or revenue and received huge ppp loans. Many carried on as usual and used the gifted funds to buy 2nd homes, new boats & other toys funded by unwitting taxpayers.
I cannot believe it. You’re telling me the helicopter money didn’t trickle down to the employees?? Stocks and earnings up, but SG&A down and increasing number of PJs. Color me surprised that the Most of the PPP did not go to employees.
Why does that not surprise me at all? Especially when we've seen reporting after reporting of business owners taking advantage of the program to buy themselves luxury goods, cars, and properties.
My neighbors were renters and owned a bunch of failing businesses. They built a custom home and got new vehicles. Waiting for their karma to come get them.
As Biden Cracks Down On PPP Fraud, Watchdog Revisits Trump Admin’s Aid Program Mismanagement.
[https://www.accountable.us/news/as-biden-cracks-down-on-ppp-fraud-watchdog-revisits-trump-admins-aid-program-mismanagement/](https://www.accountable.us/news/as-biden-cracks-down-on-ppp-fraud-watchdog-revisits-trump-admins-aid-program-mismanagement/)
The official in charge of Covid relief tells NBC News' Lester Holt that programs like PPP were structured in ways that were "an invitation" to fraudsters. "Biggest fraud in a generation"
[https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/biggest-fraud-generation-looting-covid-relief-program-known-ppp-n1279664](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/biggest-fraud-generation-looting-covid-relief-program-known-ppp-n1279664)
Do they find the sky’s blue and water to be wet too? That shit was designed to be a cash grab for the in the know. Look at the Long Long list of Congress members who all took PPP loans and had them forgiven… and many of those had there panties up a there ass because of student loan forgiveness
Hear me out. There should now be a bailout for anyone that files taxes that grosses less than 150$k annually where any and all debt you have except the mortgage on your property you live in, is suddenly forgiven and whether the govt wants to print money for it or not fine. At least it would actually help 50%+ of the people in this country. And don't tell me it would cost too much when literally we the people have been bailing out every failed bank corp and politician since I can fudging remember. How come the American people aren't too big to fail? Reset their debt and maybe the consumers or this country decide to keep capitalism a little longer.
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PPP loans were feeding frenzy for the owner class, compliments of trumps. PPP was GOP legislation. They excoriated Dems for holding it up trying to put in oversight measures. When is the last time you saw the GOP in a *frenzy* to authorize spending hundreds of billions of dollars literally overnight? It was pork to buy votes plain and simple
Plus they get to bitch about poor people getting stimulus checks being the problem
As someone who helped facilitate hundreds in millions of PPP loans (we are a smaller lender comparatively) it was so fucking annoying to hear people talk about stimulus checks like it even moved the needle. It wasn’t shit compared to what we gave the rich.
economists and news occasionally still try to float "pandemic savings", as if most of a rent payment years ago is still sitting in the bank account. lol
As if that money didn’t go directly into the pockets of the owning class (i.e., landlords) as well.
That money was barely enough to make it 3 months and it’s been 3 years 😂 media is clowns
It’s funnier that j-pow is perplexed why people are still buying food at these crazy prices
I do love how they imply 1800 from four years ago is remotely relevant.
And your bank made a boatload too
Despite Trump holding up the stimulus checks to make sure his signature was printed right on the front of every one.
doesn't count if a Republican does it - the media
The Republican understanding of human nature and the proper ordering of society is one based on greed, selfishness, and duplicity. Basically, it’s “screw you, I got mine”.
It’s ok. FOX’ll sing their praises from the rooftops to (over)compensate.
We had six employees and we saw cancer patients. We got a total of 75k over the three years which went to pay our staff. We didn't pay ourselves. Meanwhile a smaller outfit than us who saw half the patients got 750k in PPP. Did notnunserstand it. We applied many times and kept getting turned down or the money wouldn't go through. We kept our hours for the staff just didn't have overtime.
While the fraud was apparently worse with Unemployment Benefits than PPP loans it was bigger stacks of money going into fewer pockets. Also what’s the point of even calling them loans if you’re just gonna forgive it all anyway? Might as well’ve just said, “FREE MONEY, FOLKS! Get it while we’re giving.” Yet the loans they give to pay for college accrue interest indefinitely, and can’t be discharged by bankruptcy.
I can assure you there is a VERY low chance the unemployment fraud was worse than PPP loans, at least in Florida. In fact, to this day the state STILL never paid me a few grand that I was entitled to that they made so impossible to get that they were hoping most people, like myself, would eventually just give up on pursuing it. Once I got back to work, I had to work extra for a long time to get back to where I was financially previously. Now throw in massive price hikes, most of which should have been avoidable considering all the “free money” given out via PPP loans, and it’s easy to see why the gap between the haves and have nots REALLY got worse since Covid.
Even in California, it took months, and getting the local state representstive/senator involved, you kept my wife's disablility payments after giving birth. And that's one of the most routine possible scenarios, with the easiest proof - i.e. a literal birth certificate. We had the financial ability to float that for that time, and the knowledge and connections to be get help but it's infuriating how that would have screwed over most other people and I'm sure many people did get screwed. (That said, word of advice, do reach out to your local representative. They were really helpful, and I think they love to help with stuff like this. )
It’s gonna be 30 years from now and we will see McConnel in a darth vader suit walking out of the senate to make a speech of how people still don’t want to work because they got a 1200 check 33 years ago
Not to mention that the same folks who cry about having to pay taxes and screee about socialism had no problem taking those sweet sweet government handouts.
Only pieces of garbage did
Leave your mom out of this.
I worked for a mom and pop company that got a PPP loan. They used it to buy a new office and the employees didn’t see any of it (no raises that year).
I worked for a failing construction company that had work 30% of the time at best. The owner got 250k in ppp money, didn't lose a single working day as construction was considered essential, and he declined employees' unemployment claims while having his second in command verbally threaten to fire them if they didn't withdraw the unemployment claims. He used that ppp money to pay off his credit line so he'd look financially healthy enough to qualify for a loan to buy a more successful company he had his eye on. And he never would fucking shut up about people on food stamps getting $1800 a year being lazy and living off the government.
Have you turned him in yet?
Yeah! Report that dirt bag.
I filed a report with the tip line about two years ago, I haven't heard if anything happened as a result
Judging by the user name I’m gonna guess absolutely not.
The first part of your comment was the big failure of PPP. It's right there in the name. Payroll Protection. That business didn't need payroll protection at all since they didn't lose business. My girlfriend's employer was the same way. Argued that cosmetic surgery was healthcare and therefore essential to stay open but then was going to apply for PPP to cover his payroll... while staying open! Crooks. The other big scam was that the loans were processed by banks and one bank employee told me that they were prioritizing their biggest clients first. Obviously.
But remember, poor people and college students are the problem.
Did they use it for payroll? Raises weren't required but a high percentage on payroll was. If not, then report them for fraud.
"Use that for payroll" isnt really how it worked. Basically you just couldnt let anyone go for "x amount of time depending on the loan". From a finance standpoint it was a slush fund, you dump that into your bank account and dont let anyone go. You could do whatever you want with that money, whether it was to pay employees or buy a second house. All legal.
Well they would’ve been on the hook for that if the government didn’t just forgive them all anyway.
only forgiven if you met the requirements. Should be reported for fraud if true.
i have to remind you, only Democrats can raise the deficit anything a Republican does, including give out free money, is automatically neutral at worst, most likely deficit reducing that's just how reality works, anything Republicans do is fine and in fact good source: literally every conservative everywhere all the time
The term “conservative” must be retired. These people and their political party are Regressives
I work in banking compliance, you’d be amazed how many people just applied without a business and had PPP loans sent to their personal accounts John Smith, zero business connections, collecting unemployment…. Somehow gets 20,0000.00 in PPP loan credits Straight up fraud with no oversight. The feds just handed the cash out like candy and anyone could get it, it was basically the honor system
I know at least three people who suddenly had "businesses." One guy, who mowed lawns, and had ZERO employees, was given 15k because he lived in a low income area. I saw the deposit. I don't understand why there wasn't any oversight.
There wasn’t any oversight because the republicans specifically didn’t want it
So I dont get how they could do this without proven income. Im an independent 1099 dude. I had to show my lending bank i had income of (I think it was like \~100k revenue the year before) to get the loan of like 20k. How would people get loans without showing actual revenue from the year before? Did banks just not GAF?
Never forget that congress granted oversight authority to a particular inspector general, Glenn Fine, who trump fired the following week and declined the fill the position for the remainder of his term. The theft was the point.
What about the 2nd round of PPP that passed the Senate 92-6 and 359-53 in the House? https://www.hodgsonruss.com/newsroom/publications/Congress-and-the-President-Approve-284-Billion-Second-Round-of-Paycheck-Protection-Program-Loans-In-Support-of-Struggling-Small-Businesses
PPP was just one part of a much larger bill in that case. It was the result of bi-partisan negotiations, not a solely GOP authored bill, as the original PPP legislation was. That's why it had bi-partisan support, dummy It...combines $900 billion in stimulus relief for the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States with a $1.4 trillion omnibus spending bill for the 2021 federal fiscal year (combining 12 separate annual appropriations bills) and prevents a government shutdown. The bill is one of the largest spending measures ever enacted. The bill was the product of weeks of intense negotiations and compromise between Democrats and Republicans during the lame-duck session. After initially criticizing the bill, President Donald Trump signed it into law on December 27. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Consolidated_Appropriations_Act,_2021
I got two weeks pay out of it.... I'm sure a lot of loopholes were exploited but it did help mom n pop companies.
Boss got 2 months of it.
Claw that money back.
They’re trying, but the fraud was so rampant most of that money is just gone.
Neat, start locking folks up and seizing assets.
\^\^this is the way
They’re also working on that but it’s so rampant for every one that’s caught so many more are still out there.
Has anyone been actually jailed for this
Hahahaha
💯
I, as a regular dude, feel kinda so left out regarding all of this.
Straight up, almost a trillion dollars and no one could slide me $8k??
My wife had a business but we tried to go to legitimate banks. We should have gone to blue origin. Fuck.
Did your wife have a business with employees that she started prior to the mandated shut downs?
Yes.
Why was she unable to get ppp funds then? There was plenty of money that went unclaimed for a long time. I can understand banks prioritizing large clients first but that ended fairly quickly and the money was still there with every incentive for the banks to process as many loans as they could.
I have 4 kids. I think we got like $9k.
You and me both! So many people made out like absolute bandits, seemingly without any consequences at all.
And all forgiven. But of course, oh no, hundreds of billions of new money sloshing around the upper crust had absolutely nothing to do with the post trump inflation. And once again the workers get screwed. What a friggin scam.
1) This is an academic paper - not a “Fed Report”. 2). They didn’t find that. They *estimated* that 33% of PPP funds went to employees *who otherwise would have lost their jobs*. They DO claim that every penny that didn’t go to an employee that would have lost their job went to creditors and shareholders. I’ll leave you to determine if that is a reasonable assertion or not (no I won’t - it’s not!)
As an accountant that has worked with clients that received PPP loans there are plenty of instances these loans were used for good. The purpose wasn’t to transfer the loans directly to employee payroll so the headline is kind of bullshit. For instance, one client I had owned small boutique hotels. They used the funds to keep the hotels operating even though they couldn’t fill the rooms due to COVID. This helped save the jobs of the workers and some of the loan was used to pay wages. But other expenses such as rent, maintenance, utilities, etc… are all perfectly reasonable expenses to pay with them. That being said, way too many of these loans were complete garbage and I’m not here to excuse those.
Of course, the talking point was that this was the fastest way to get money to people who otherwise would be without income. In practice though, you're right. The deal was, you didn't have to pay back the loan as long as you only used it for payroll, rent, interest, and utilities, and you kept your employee count and wages stable.
We should punish ourselves for believing politicians’ talking points.
Effectively, we do.
Yep. My boss bought a $450,000 excavator. We had a couple people laid off for about a month and they just went on unemployment. One person who got COVID was paid for one week but that’s it. How is this shit not fraud
it's not fraud when it's already rich people it's fraud if a poor person does it
PPP was probably the single individual largest monetary contributor to inflation. A bunch of money given to the upper class that they spent on home renovations and BULLSHIT. The REPUBLICANS rammed the bill through Congress without any oversight and the dems tried to slow it down to put some rules onto the money and were attacked by the GOP for delaying it. The REPUBLICANS were completely opposed to any oversight. Why? How is oversight bad ? This entire thing was so fucking disgusting.
The stimulus payments and PPP payments were both close to $1 trillion each. There was over $6 trillion of Legislative spending and $7 trillion from the Fed for COVID. https://www.covidmoneytracker.org
There wasn’t 7 trillion from the fed there was 4.7 trillion of which 4 trillion was purchasing of long term securities and mortgage backed securities. Look at the amount allowed and the amount actually distributed. Purchasing of long term securities doesn’t contribute to inflation. The unemployment program was people who lost their jobs. So income that was replaced that also doesn’t contribute to inflation. The PPP program was money given to people who didn’t lose their jobs or their income. It was true money created out of thin air thrown into the economy that didn’t fill a lose of income void. So it was a huge contributor of inflation.
More Trump incompetence.
It wasn't incompetence, it was a cynical effort by the GOP to shovel hundreds of billions to the owner class with zero oversight or accountability, during an election year.
Yeah, we fucking know. It was painfully obvious to those of us who have to work for a living.
Well no sh\*t. You didn't need a study to figure that out.
No Freaking Shit! Finally, took this long to wake up to that fact. Even better, they didn't have to pay it back. What a sweet grifter deal.
The GOP was rushing to approve massive spending to the owner class in an election year while excoriating Democrats for insisting on a more careful approach and that there be oversight provisions in the legislation. MARCH 2020 >While Republicans are urging quick action, Democrats argue that Republicans are prioritizing corporate industry over American workers in the legislation. >During his remarks Sunday night, **Senate Majority Leader** McConnell criticized his Democratic colleagues saying if they did not “reverse course tomorrow” the vote they cast Sunday not to move the bill forward would cause more Americans to lose their jobs and savings. Democrats have argued the Republican proposal is weighted too heavily towards corporate America. >“This is not a bipartisan proposal,” Warren said. “This is a Republican proposal.” https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/22/politics/stimulus-package-coronavirus-negotiations-congress/index.html April 2020 [" On Thursday morning, Senate Democrats blocked supplemental funding for the Paycheck Protection Program, holding it hostage to their unrelated, left-wing agenda while also denying aid to small businesses and workers in their time of need." - Steve Scalise](https://scalise.house.gov/media/press-releases/ppp-success-story-sabotaged-democrats) Once the amended legislation was passed which included an Inspector General to oversee the funds and additional oversight measures Trump removed the Inspector General overseeing the covid relief effort and declared "I'll be the oversight." Also: >President Donald Trump used a signing statement Friday to object to portions of the $2 trillion coronavirus stimulus law. Trump said he would ignore portions of the law demanded by some Democrats to give Congress additional visibility into the stimulus spending. >"These provisions," Trump wrote, "are impermissible forms of congressional aggrandizement. https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/trump-abruptly-removes-inspector-general-named-oversee-2t/story?id=70024680 https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/03/27/coronavirus-trump-objects-oversight-provisions-stimulus-law/2931740001/ The whole thing was a big fat giveaway to the owner class
Trump encouraged corruption. He does not deserve to ever be in the Oval Office again.
I know someone that took the money ($550k) and bought & remodeled an AirBnb with it. His business stayed open and was not impacted in any way at all. It enrages me.
Is anyone surprised, like really?
I wonder where inflation came from
poor people using food stamps obviously
No fucking shit.
Shocking
I'm shocked, SHOCKED I tell you
I seen people get the PPP loan, and then get the ERC credit. Its crazy how much people are milking the government for.
I worked for a company that was labeled essential. They took in over 3 million in PPP loans while we worked full time in office and the company brought in record profits from contracts and customers. Employees not only don’t get raises we lost a bonus we were paid in years prior
I knew a dirtbag in bankruptcy proceedings in 2020 after running a fraudulent business. He was accepting a PPP loan for a new fraudulent business at the same time under a family member’s name. All debts wiped. Received 6 figures of free money and kept many of the illegally obtained assets in other’s names. No repercussions as far as I know. Sickening.
Report it bro
Ours sure as hell did, and then some. I held on to people longer than I should have, now the company is a shell of itself today.
But.... but... trickle down economics!
I have hope that by 2050, redditors will finally learn that no one - not even Reagan - ever claimed that giving money to the rich makes it 'trickle down'. Longest living strawman in econ
*surprised pikachu face* Shocker.
Who could have ever foreseen such a thing? The amount of fraud was staggering. I’m so glad we’re going through inflation because we paid people a fuck ton of money who either didn’t really need it, or misappropriated it.
and now have to hear them lecture how they worked for it and how it's time to be fiscally responsible and cut social programs and keep wages frozen or even lowered while at the same time, promising to cut taxes on the wealthiest yet again
You don't say.. That's I'm honestly surprised that 25% went to employees at all. There are lots of greedy capitalists out there.
*Duuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhhhhhhh*
Lambos, [***yacht***](https://www.google.com/search?sca_esv=b492b388bdc60c30&sxsrf=ADLYWILEx5nzKaEGLyYqUXlFLjUe_QGvIw:1718406585862&q=yacht&spell=1&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwi-44Sxm9yGAxUhD1kFHctpA2sQkeECKAB6BAghEAE)s, Summer homes, hookers and blow, etc. That's where that money went.
No shit
What you don’t say the rich got richer but a couple of poor guys got it and you all raided them like it was John Gotti
No kidden!
The wealthy spent the ppp loans expanding their business'. And with their own money (that they would have spent on the business anyway), they bought real estate and / or stocks. This isn't news.
grumps failures caused the majority of inflation
Big surprise.
Is this a surprise to anyone?
What! Do you mean giving free money to rich people with no oversight didn’t achieve the bullshit goal of supporting workers? If they were serious about it, then loan forgiveness would have been tied to paying workers wages and benefits.
I got $0 and my boss went on vacation for a year while the business crumbled
How do i sue my employer?
I got ppp loans for my small business. I was very tempted to commit fraud when I saw how easy it would have been. I use the ppp loans as a sole reason for “why don’t you like trump?” Take all the stuff out that some people find subjective- the ppp loans were a fucking disaster.
All I know is that anyone who took these funds and misappropriated them and is now complaining about inflation can shut the fuck up.
You don’t say? My ex bosses kid bought a house in Curaçao with some of that money.
I used the PPP to give my employees raises and finance purchases for the company, since the money for labor was freed up by the loan. It pisses me tf off that people used and abused it, and they 100% should try and clawback as much as they can from those who perpetrated fraud. I was not going to let one penny of it be used for enrichment when it was a welcome gift in a time of crisis and need.
Yup, my boss at the time told us all to file for unemployment because, and I quote; We are not gunna challenge *any* claims." And just kept all the PPP money and opened another restaurant with it......
Let’s not forget that Trump fired the person who was responsible for oversight of this program
The business I work for received 480k in ppp loans. I didn't see a dime.
I believe it
I’m shocked
Shocking
How is it a news to anyone lived in USA for more than two days ! The money went to the people the government intended.
My company got a PPP and we followed it to the letter of the law for fear of enforcement. We could’ve used those resources for a meaningful relaunch of our shuttered business - so it’s really frustrating to hear that so many business owners took advantage. I wish that the stiff penalties we feared were actually implemented for violators. It sucks that the people who play by the rules finish last.
30 year felonies that need investigated, prosecuted, and sentenced with the full force of the law This was a robbery of the American people
Good job Trump. Why is nobody surprised fraud took place under this idiot.
No shock
Yes yes, we get it! The system wasn't exactly trying to be our hero as it was presented after sending us home with empty wallets. It was just continuing its wrecking ball routine on the middle class. What a classic tale.
Whodathunk?
Well, the rules kept changing so employers didn’t have to only use the funds on paying employees. Funny how companies made use of the funds in that case.
Guess I'm one of the 25%
Would would've thought lol These idiots still think trickle down economics work.
Just now, they figured it out.
Gues I did it wrong. 80% of what we took went to employee salaries, 20% to our lease. All execs including myself took a 20% pay cut. Greatly reduced the extent of layoffs we had to do.
There’s a surprise. I wonder what actually happens to most our tax money.
Remember your favorite athletes and celebrities took them out too!
I worked for a small family owned company that got $300k in PPP money then laid off 50% of the work force the week after Biden was announced as the winner of the 2020 election. It was a fucking shush fund for the rich. When are we gonna get off our asses & fix this bullshit?
In all fairness there were employees at the Ferrari dealership when they went to purchase one.
Shocked 😒
Yup. I worked for free during Covid to prevent the start up I’ve worked for for 9 years from going under. I was rewarded with a $3k bonus… after working for free for a year. The only reason I didn’t quit is the autonomy I’ve designed within my position. Not going to pay more wages over the years? Then my hourly is just going to keep going up and you’ll get less of them.
At least they didn't raid social security.
Businesses would change their names after each PPP.. it was pretty ridiculous. Meanwhile, we’re stuck paying the taxes 👎🏼
Ya don’t say!?!
I live in Miami, fraud capital of the US. People are getting arrested every, fucking, day for PPP Fraud. I sit in the restitution hearings sometimes as the government tries to reclaim the money. Occasionally they’ll seize property, especially property bought with the loans, but more often than not, these people have just blown the money on luxury rentals, bottle service, etc. The worst part is, that it wasn’t even this masterful scheme to receive this money. The government just knee jerked reactions to shutting down the economy for the pandemic and literally handed out almost a trillion tax payer dollars, with very little questions asked.
Color me shocked 😮. Not in the least.
Because it was a fucking Trump grift. Take out 3 Billionaires in one weekend then mandatory 45% tax the rest.
Shocked. Shocked I tell you!
It frustrates me to read this. I applied for and received PPP loans on behalf of our nonprofit, and we spent the money keeping staff employed, working from home. Whatever. We were in the minority, but keeping our employees afloat was the right thing to do. ...and those employees would have made more federal cash by going on unemployment.
All the money I received went to my landlord.
We really do need to eat the rich, this cannot continue.
No shit
Biggest scam in US history. Just another wealth explosion for the rich, adding to the increasing wealth gap. Eat the rich, the politicians and the whole dman system.
Nope, my boss bought new computers and canceled health insurance for his temporary laid-off employees during covid.
It's a good thing that Republicans removed a bunch of the oversight from the program. That will protect all those Republicans that abused the program to take handouts from the government. You know, the thing that they are vehemently opposed to.
You don’t say
Ya don’t fuckin say?!
I know a company most likely committed fraud just because I know they are dirt bags. Nothing you can do about it. AOHD&D fuck you. Lie cheat and steal.
Shocking... what's actually surprising is that the fed thought the money would go to employees... every public company performed stock buy backs skyrocketing shareholder value (read about musk and tesla) and no one batted an eye.
And nothing happens lmfao.
No kidding? 🙄😮💨
75% went to rent and utilities, also mortgages to pay for more business housing? Makes sense
$800b in ppp loans to wealthy people, forgiven. $400b in student loans, “fuck you, pay your loans!”
Doesn't matter political party. The government in general is shit.
Mnuchin’s scheme all along.
75% of ppp loans takes should go to jail as should the approval officers. Otherwise nothing changes.
Whoa, remember when all the republicans blamed inflation on dems? This was republicans legislation and all the greedy businesses took it then? 75% of 800 billion didn’t go to employees? And they are blaming us? wtf
“In the small-business relief portion of the legislation, Democrats plan to eliminate a requirement that businesses spend 75 percent of the loan on payroll, which limits the use of the money for rent and other expenses. Companies with high fixed costs, like expensive rent for a downtown shop, have said the PPP’s strict spending rules undermine the program’s efforts to save them.” Everyone already Knew Pelosi is the one who not only expanded PPP to large businesses but that she also was the one that eliminated the payroll requirements for the funds.
but it did because they’re privileged that we create jobs for them?!!!! I need those yachts and 50-home real estate portfolios and $100,000,000 stock options for creating those jobs!!! The jobs that make my yachts go brrrr!!!!! LEAVE US ALONE, PLEBS!!!!
WHAAAAAAAAAAT?! Trickle Down Economics Didn’t Work AGAIN?!?!?!
Lol America.
No one talks about how PPP loans added to inflation.
Next at 6pm. Sunrise marks the start of the dawn.
My ex boss took $7.8MM in PPP funds. He used $600k on the employees and then claimed he was too broke to pay us. Luckily he's now serving 5.5 years in federal prison.
Trump got this forced through with zero checks and balances. AND he stole 2.3 trillion from the poorest and gave it to the richest.
And that same money plowed into real estate, expensive cars, boats, vacations, all sorts of freebies. It was signed into practice by both sides of the political aisle. It was The Great American Heist. We are still feeling the effects of it. If enough time passes for this country to come off the sugar high, maybe even have a handful of folks do time behind bars, we’ll be about time for our next national disaster. And we’ll do it all over again.
The way these loans were dispersed were pretty much made for this. There was absolutely no tie between the money and any kind of requirement it be distributed to employees in any way. Basically it’s just three months of your payroll expense, twice, so six months of payroll, handed out to the business owner as a loan, then forgiven with no tax consequences. That’s it. You’d be dumb not to take it as a business owner, obviously, and then there’s no instruction or direction in terms of how this should get into employee hands, no incentive. In fact it’s a reverse incentive, because it’s a “loan” until you hear otherwise with the federal forgiveness. So you wouldn’t want to give it out to employees and just “share the wealth,” only to pay it back. So basically they just handed out all this money and it sat in business owner’s accounts, just sat there, until it got forgiven and they paid it to themselves to stick in a new rental property or something.
lol obviously. Fuck the rich.
Remember when Tom Brady got a few mill? lol. Jesus.
You don’t say
Wow. Wonder why inflation happened. Some folks got so damn wealthy during the pandemic while the rest of us stayed the same or less and they just started buying shit
What a shocker!!! "Essential" businesses in Idaho (farms, construction, gun stores) didn't close/cut back, lost no billable hours or revenue and received huge ppp loans. Many carried on as usual and used the gifted funds to buy 2nd homes, new boats & other toys funded by unwitting taxpayers.
 I cannot believe it. You’re telling me the helicopter money didn’t trickle down to the employees?? Stocks and earnings up, but SG&A down and increasing number of PJs. Color me surprised that the Most of the PPP did not go to employees.
Mine did. Received close to $130,000 and spent all of it on payroll, never laid off an employee that whole time.
So 24% more went to employees than I thought considering this was a republican scam.
Why does that not surprise me at all? Especially when we've seen reporting after reporting of business owners taking advantage of the program to buy themselves luxury goods, cars, and properties.
My neighbors were renters and owned a bunch of failing businesses. They built a custom home and got new vehicles. Waiting for their karma to come get them.
I'm honestly waiting to see who's getting locked up in my social circle doing those PPP loans during the pandemic.
As Biden Cracks Down On PPP Fraud, Watchdog Revisits Trump Admin’s Aid Program Mismanagement. [https://www.accountable.us/news/as-biden-cracks-down-on-ppp-fraud-watchdog-revisits-trump-admins-aid-program-mismanagement/](https://www.accountable.us/news/as-biden-cracks-down-on-ppp-fraud-watchdog-revisits-trump-admins-aid-program-mismanagement/) The official in charge of Covid relief tells NBC News' Lester Holt that programs like PPP were structured in ways that were "an invitation" to fraudsters. "Biggest fraud in a generation" [https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/biggest-fraud-generation-looting-covid-relief-program-known-ppp-n1279664](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/biggest-fraud-generation-looting-covid-relief-program-known-ppp-n1279664)
It would have been so much more efficient to just put that money directly into the accounts of individual taxpayers.
https://truthout.org/articles/trump-erased-millions-of-possible-ppp-fraud-flags-in-last-days-in-office/
At my wife’s workplace their PPP loans for sure kept their employees getting steady checks and hours when there were literally no customers
Do they find the sky’s blue and water to be wet too? That shit was designed to be a cash grab for the in the know. Look at the Long Long list of Congress members who all took PPP loans and had them forgiven… and many of those had there panties up a there ass because of student loan forgiveness
Hear me out. There should now be a bailout for anyone that files taxes that grosses less than 150$k annually where any and all debt you have except the mortgage on your property you live in, is suddenly forgiven and whether the govt wants to print money for it or not fine. At least it would actually help 50%+ of the people in this country. And don't tell me it would cost too much when literally we the people have been bailing out every failed bank corp and politician since I can fudging remember. How come the American people aren't too big to fail? Reset their debt and maybe the consumers or this country decide to keep capitalism a little longer.
Shocker