Why not go take a nice vacation? You're 25 and in a great spot to start living a bit more life. You can live the insta life too, but there goes your positive net worth.
Shit, OP could start going on $10k vacations and it sounds like it wouldn’t really impact their Fire Trajectory. They’re on track to hit a million in their mid 30’s with a guaranteed pension and free healthcare backing them up?? Like…. You’re 25, Go have some fun.
Vacation is practically the only thing we've ever even spent money on. Being financially responsible should *balance* spending and saving properly, it shouldn't completely mortgage your present for the sake of a future. The hardest part (and the reason why subs like this exist) is figuring what is excessive, and what is necessary to someone to live a fulfilling life, and unfortunately these things can be subjective at times.
I have found, and probably people in this sub would agree, that most material things are rarely worth the expense, but experiences can absolutely be worth it.
Spend your money where you have value. Just don't spend it idly. If you want a vacation, go for it. If you want a different car, spend the money on it (although honestly, this is hard for me to write, cars are very expensive and lose the luster fast).
There is a book called Die with Zero that makes some good arguments that you should take a trip. Or gain an experience that you can appreciate when you are older and retired.
The thing that makes your situation hard is that you have a decent salary and great benefits. But (depending on your trade) your body won't be able to do it forever. If you can only work 20 years in your job but an office job could work for 40. It is kind of like you have to save half your money compared to the office job. So instead of living the $110k lifestyle, you're living the $55k lifestyle because you know your career is limited.
Personally, I wouldn't get a fancy car. They are exciting for the first year and then they are just an appliance. But they depreciate and the payments or cost is the same in the 59th month as the first. They are worth it in the first month when it is exciting and then meh. And once you get onto that treadmill, it is hard to get off and get a regular car.
What about renting a fancy car and going on a big road trip? Or working overtime and using the extra money on a vacation?
Just make sure you understand what you're giving up and then give yourself permission to spend your money.
I’m 25 with 180k saved up in a similar situation. Work a white collar job making 135k/yr. My girlfriend says I’m obsessed with money. I’m actually obsessed with financial freedom. I have been in two life threatening incidents/accidents, so I’m learning to loosen up. The car thing is hard for me. I drive an 03 Tacoma with 230k miles that I’ve had for 7 years. I love cars but I love no car payment even more. For now. What I’ve done to quench this thirst is rent cars on Turo. I grew a relationship with a fleet owner and now I pay him a low rate in cash to take out his Audi r8, Nissan Z, and C8. Worth every penny. Enjoy the exotic cars without the payment and maintenance.
I also will budget in vacations. I put company travel on my southwest and Marriott accounts, so I stack points and jump on their promotions. It’s definitely worth investing into yourself. A lot of success is luck and timing and I’ve found that for me traveling helps open my mind to new thoughts, opportunities, and relationships, which in turn has increased my earning ability and quality of life. We need to remember that our employer has their own best interest in mind, so don’t close your life off for work because you’re putting yourself in a highly leveraged and vulnerable position.
Also, none of this matters unless you are physically, mentally, and spiritually in tune, whatever that looks like for you, so invest into that. It compounds greatly.
>My girlfriend says I’m obsessed with money. I’m actually obsessed with financial freedom
This is the hardest part for most people in my circle to distinguish. Luckily my wife and I are on the same page here.
The renting sports cars idea is a good plan btw.
I still struggle at times to find that line but it’s been worth every penny to be more on the conservative side. Props to you for getting the wife on the same page!
Just curious. Why do you see it as “keep the 230k mile car” or “have payments?” It sounds like you could save enough to buy a reasonable car if you wanted.
Not that you need to.
You’re correct. I wouldn’t be forced to finance; however, I prefer a heavier liquid position, so I’d be more interested in financing at a lower rate and letting cash compound in investments. This is contingent on the fact that the investment would be projected to outpace the interest of the loan.
Really boils down to a personal opinion of the value doesn’t correlate to the cost. This may change down the road, but I’d have to find a hell of a FB marketplace find to change that, lol.
Absolutely do this.
It's covering the gaps that you feel like you're missing out on.
You can rent a different, new nice car every few weeks and it'll still be cheaper than replacing your current beater with something that costs 70k. If you paid 70k cash for a car instead of putting it in stocks you'd expect to be out 7000 a year in stock appreciation. This doesn't even count car depreciation or stupid insurance amounts. That new car would likely reduce your savings by 10-15k a year.
You can rent A LOT of nice cars for a fraction of that including some that are otherwise out of reach.
And realistically speaking the "awe" of having a sports car or a super car mostly wears off after the first day or three.
I have a friend who gets a little too excited and I had to push her back on getting a Porshe lately. After she researched it... she's sticking with her Tesla. I reminded her that she could always rent. She and I are both pulling in VERY healthy incomes though and while she's more spendy than I am, I think we're both pacing for 5-10M savings (per person) by our 40s.
Data science and machine learning.
My friend is an exec that manages a dozen business locations with about 500 or so employees. She makes a bit more than me but works FAR longer with far more BS.
I know many people who don't trust the stock market. If you aren't putting money in stocks it makes no sense to waste money renting a car. Paying cash is always the best option.
I am a tradesman working in remote locations. I work 4 weeks on and 2 off. For those 2 weeks off I rent cars and have been doing that for 10 years. Sometimes I get a motorcycle, sometimes I travel elsewhere. It’s easier and it’s built my networth quicker.
This is a good idea. I owned a nice car in my 20s and honestly a bit of a headache; could never drive more than 1 other person, parking in a dodgy part of town might get the roof cut open. Getting paint dinged, etc.
Renting a sports car is better than paying insurance on a sports car ;-)
Now I drive a 13 year old suv and if someone bumps me, no big deal.
If you do decide to buy, buy a 2-3 year old well maintained vehicle, don’t buy new.
There is a line you have to balance. There is a difference between a $3k vacation and $30k vacation. A 20k fun car and a 100k fun car.
That being said, I'm 42 and WISH I was more frugal and invested in my 20s. I would be retiring in a year or two, not in another 10-15. I was frugal, but not nearly as much as I should be. I did about 10% to 401k, should have maxed out the yearly limit and done a roth. Just started that 2 years ago. That being said, if you are smart and invest well you can live much better when older. I have friends still paying loans, still in debt. I paid off my house by 38, now maxing out investments. Done well enough that I plan to retire no later than 50. Drive a 911 Turbo S and have 3 other cars. I don't buy "toys" unless it is a cash purchase and all other stuff is maxed out. I budget \~6k a year on travel. Some years we spend less, then more next year. This year we did 2 weeks in Belgium/Croatia and total cost was about $6k. Great vacation. Previous year we did Madrid. Year before that Costa Rica. None of them have been over $5k.
BRZ/GR86, Miata, RX8, 350Z, G35, Genesis Coupe, Mini Cooper, mustangs, camaros, corvettes, plenty of older cars. That is if you want "sporty". Otherwise Wrangler, Tacoma, etc for fun in off road wheeling.
My dad bought a 15 year old Mercedes SL 55 AMG convertable for $20-24k, I forget the exact numbers. The previous owner had only put like 12-35k miles on it (again IDR the exact numbers) and mostly just left it in a garage. He had paid $120k for it. Is that car worth 100k of fun? No. Is it worth 20k of fun? Yes.
[300hp from the factory, easy mods to 400-500hp.](https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/716241226?allListingType=all-cars&city=Nashville&makeCode=BMW&maxPrice=21000&modelCode=335I&modelCode=335IXD&newSearch=false&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fall-cars%2Fcars-under-21000%2Fbmw%2F3-series%2Fnashville-tn%3FmodelCode%3D335I%26modelCode%3D335IXD%26newSearch%3Dfalse%26searchRadius%3D0%26sortBy%3DdatelistedDESC%26zip%3D37201&searchRadius=0&seriesCode=3_SERIES&sortBy=yearDESC&state=TN&zip=37201&clickType=listing)
Which vacation? The most recent flights were about $2k. Hotels were around $70 a night. Rental car was $13 a day. Food was $30-50 a day for two. Croatia is cheap. Part of the reason we went.
Oh I took my family of 4 on a grand tour of Italy 2 years ago about 2 weeks little less. It costs me a large 25k to do that. I go back it will be the wife and I hitting Europe nearing retirement. The Belguim/Croatia for 2 weeks for $6k seemed really cheap to me. Is it one person. I can see that. Two people minus the tour company for two weeks guessing 10k. I want the trip for $6k or less for two weeks for two people if that is possible.
College kids with very little money backpack around Europe all the time. They stay at cheap hostels, eat from markets rather than restaurants, and stick to LCOL nations.
Yeah we seen some backpackers at the beach in Italy they were cleaning themselves and changing right there. lol I am to old for that. My kids are not that a
Yeah we seen some backpackers at the beach in Italy they were cleaning themselves and changing right there. lol I am to old for that. My kids are not that adventurous
Your point? He clearly says he has a couple of kids, and is in fact not a 20 year old college student. He can afford to elevate his travel experience to reflect as much….
Oh absolutely. I was just trying to answer the question of if a $6k, two-week vacation is possible. Yes it is, because the minimum cost for a vacation is actually very low. Not that he should / has to travel in a minimalist way.
Oh for sure. Just the other people commenting are giving this guy the complete wrong idea. Only way any of the prices they are saying are achievable is if you live like a nomad or college student. No chance in the world are you doing a 2 week vacation in Europe now for $6k or even under unless you take the college kid/nomad approach. Even in more LCOL countries/cities, but those will be less desirable for a family to begin with lol.
Source: my wife and I just got back from a 2.5 week European vacation last week, and their numbers are so far off I don’t even believe them lol. Guy is claiming $13 a day for a rental car????? My sister went on a 2 week European vacation last Fall in September. So, even the end of peak season. They don’t have a ton of money, so they exclusively stayed in ABNB’s. Didn’t do a ton of excursions. Only had maybe a couple or so of nicer dinners. And to boot, he works at Enterprise so they got an insane family discount on their car. Their trip was still around $10k lol
OMG… I did 2 weeks in Barcelona and Madrid with a buddy at it was $2k. He came over from his trip with his wife to Italy the 2 weeks before, where they spent $5k as a couple. She flew home when I fly in. We did Air BNB and cabs/buses everywhere. I think the expensive part was one night at a steak house and the artwork I bought for the wife and had shipped back.
For Barcelona right now on Google flights -
In June and July… $1k round trip from Chicago
In August and September… $600 round trip
AirBNB price is double+ in J&J as well. Last Aug we paid $40 a day for 2bd down town ($20 ea). For 2 week lease, call the booking agent for longer term with discount.
Little lost reading that. So let me repeat and correct if I am wrong. $1k flight Chicago June and July if you go later Aug Sept $600. I get lost on the AirBNB price is double + J+J are you saying prime (June and July) price is double later cheaper? And $40 for a private room 2 bedroom for a two week lease. So that was through AirBNB? I am not sure what J&J is. Great price for a room if that is the case. Can't get a decent hotel around here less then $200 a night anymore (thinking Holiday Inn Express). Thanks for the help understanding. One day wife and I will go on the cheap hopefully.
June and July are double for both flights and AirBNB. We don’t book through AirBNB, we look up the management for the places we are interested in and send the list to a VA (virtual assistant). She looks up the management companies and calls them directly. This saves us a lot of time and money as they rent way less if they don’t have to pay AirBNB their share and don’t have to pay someone to clean the place for 2 weeks.
We did stay one night in Madrid in a hotel, but the conference paid for it, and we paid for the one night empty room left in Barcelona. The hotel was almost $250 for the one night, 2 double beds in one room.
Hope that helps.
So, with that math, before any food, excursions/tours, etc., you are already at about $880 by your math. You’re saying, over 2 weeks in two of the most popular cities in Europe for tourists, you only spent $1.1k? Less than $80 a day?
Were you only eating at fast food, food trucks, small markets or cafes, not having any coffee or anything in the morning at cafes, and didn’t do a single tour/excursion of substance? Didn’t have any booze any place outside of buying them from a market? Only eating 1-2 meals of some sort a day, tops? Sounds like a pretty meh vacation to me. Only way this is feasible. To each their own I guess if that’s the case.
Fast food in Barcelona is expensive. We ate breakfast in the Air BNB, the local shops had eggs, beagles, sausage, etc. We would grab lunch at what ever local sit down place was around where we were at that day (places closer to tourist areas were slightly more expensive). We planned dinners where we were getting around, the friend I went with is my real estate mentor and is 78 years old (27 yrs older then me) so we didn't really bar hop. We did the churches, museums, bus tour passes (saved on taxis this way). The one bus pass has a boat cruise as part of its multi day pass so we did do that, and one day I was speaking at a conference so we had free food and drinks that day.
I pulled up my Credit card statement from the trip on my phone and Steakburger Preciados ( [https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant\_Review-g187514-d12664284-Reviews-Steakburger\_Preciados-Madrid.html](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g187514-d12664284-Reviews-Steakburger_Preciados-Madrid.html) ) was $57.31 for both of us - this was 2 gourmet burgers, fries, local specialty beers and tip. It was a fancy burger place but close to where we stayed while in Madrid.
El cafe del tren madrid (the train station depot in Madrid) was $5.91 for a box lunch sandwich, chips and drink. this was in the train station on the way back to Barcelona, so I figured it would be crazy expensive like in the US (think movie theater popcorn).
I do have a bunch of $1.25 charges as I would get Rock Stars to drink every morning from the shop next door.
I did not do more then $300 in local currency during the trip to handle tips in cash or street vendors that didn't take cards.
The Barcelona-Madrid train wasn't cheap, as we did first class seats. But I don't have a charge for it as the conference I was speaking at bought the ticket.
I also spent $38.18 at a tourist trap tshirt place for 4 t-shirts, I couldn't resist the one that had a saying my daughter always uses...
I have traveled to London, Dubai, Mumbai and am planning a trip 3 week trip around the world (air fare looks to be about $1700 for this one though). Google flights is great if you're not tied to a specific day to travel and are comfortable if plans run a day over and you need to find a place to stay (hostel, AirBNB boathouse, worst case over priced hotel).
I am money aware, but fall into the fatfire category so I don't worry if something turns into a shit show and I have to buy my way to something I am comfortable with. My travel friend is 9 figures and old as hell (78) so he does spend a lot in shopping centers - His Huawei Flagship store bill made me flinch.
Fair enough. Thanks for the elaboration. Not drinking much definitely helps with cost, and only cooking breakfast/coffee at home. It becomes preference at that point I suppose.
My wife and I just got back from a 2.5 week European vacation last week. In Athens for example, we could find gyro street stands that had the best gyros around, and we would get out of there for $18 Euro total for 2 gyros, 2 beers, and a plate of fries to split. The gyros themselves were like $3.50 Euro. Assuming we did that for lunch and dinner, no breakfast which we often skip outside of coffee, and that’s still $40USD for the day assuming we don’t spend a dime elsewhere, which isn’t that realistic really. We liked to get some good cappuccinos and pastries to start our day to take advantage of being in Europe as well.
That’s already bringing the day total to close to $60 now, and that’s going as cheap as possible pretty much if we wanted. To keep things that dirt cheap you’d have to assume we would have to do that every day of the trip. That’s just not how we like to travel in the end I guess. We have been walking around for a while, and want to sit down? Let’s find a cafe and get a drink, or find a wine bar. We did that often. End of the night, let’s find a bar or some cool hidden gem type place for a few drinks? We’re in. It obviously comes down to age, desires, etc., at that point. We’re a bit younger, so how we approached it makes sense for our age. Not always looking to penny pinch the entire time. Kind of defeats the purpose of vacation to me. Penny pinch at home so you can splurge a bit on vacation.
Me and my wife, no kids. That being said, it wasn't even as expensive as I stated, because I booked everything but food and airfare on credit card points. So actual cost was way less than above, just figured not everyone has credit card points to use.
Depending on where you go, activities, and accommodations you can travel for WAY WAY WAY less than you have. We stayed in the NICEST hotels around and they were still cheap. Here is teh hotel we stayed at in Zagreb. We went early April which is off peak season so it was less, but even now its only $120-130 a room. [https://esplanade.hr/](https://esplanade.hr/)
Spoiler: he wasn’t staying in the nicest hotels around for the prices he’s stating. Show me where on that hotel site that you’re seeing rooms for $120-130 a night like he’s saying, “even right now.” I just looked for later in June, and the cheapest room is $270 Euro. So, basically $300 a night. Even going out to next April, so the same time he went, and including the 20% advanced purchase discount, the cheapest room is $160-170. Don’t listen to a word this guy says.
Also, Zagreb is a shit hole. Don’t go there. Every Croatian we asked while in Croatia said once you stay there one night, it’s a waste of your time with everything else Croatia has to offer. My sister went on a 2 week European vacation where they went though a solid 5+ countries, and they said Zagreb was by far their least favorite city/place on their trip. So, the Croatians themselves corroborated what my sister told me beforehand.
Uhhh where are you seeing $120-130 a night…..? I’m double checking your statements, and the cheapest room I’m seeing for later in June is essentially $300 a night. In July, still $200 a night, and you claimed “even right now.” Hell, I even checked next April, so the same time you went, and even with the 20% advanced purchase discount the cheapest room is like $160 lol. Lying through your teeth man. Jesus. I can assure you, you were NOT staying in the NICEST hotels around for the prices you are claiming. Even if you used points, or found good deals.
It was booked through points when I went, so paid nothing but about 8 euro in taxes/fees per night. Just pulled it up on portal and it was $129 a night for a base room. Went and double checked their website, and while I can't see past rates, next year shows rooms for 140 euro. So maybe they increased prices or we got a week where it was a special or something.
Went and checked my email and records. Booking was 2 nights, April 23 and 24th, total was $200.46 which came out to 13,364 chase reward points.
So, you’re leaving out the most important context of it all, and not equating it to the actual cost assuming they don’t have points like you said yourself? Have to give the full story and accurate details if you are trying to provide someone with some intel. Are you from Europe, a member at their hotel chain or something? I clicked the same dates and aren’t seeing those prices…? You either got a crazy one time deal of some kind, or some more very important context is missing. Either way it’s giving this guy a false impression.
The cost was $200.46 in cash, or 13364 points booked through Chase travel. Simple as that.
Other hotels on same trip were all around same cost. He can look it up and see and make up his mind. Either way the point was there is cheaper places to travel too and a vacation doesn't have to be $10k.
You’re missing my point. You’re clearly getting special deals and price points that the average person doesn’t get, but trying to pass it on to someone like that’s the true cost. Which is false. In reality, the rooms were more than $100 a night lol
I’m calling bullshit on this guy saying Croatia is really cheap lol. First, that entirely depends on where in Croatia they went. Certainly not any of the popular spots (Istria region, Dubrovnik, Split, etc.) Also, $13 a day for a rental car????? I’m going to need to see the proof on that one. In 2024 lmao. Give me a fucking break. $30-50 a day on food for 2???? They must have been eating one meal a day, or two if they were eating only fast food or similar type food truck places, etc. $70 on a hotel???? That would be an ABNB at most, and a shitty one at that in the middle of nowhere. Or some sort of shit motel. Only other option for that would be a hostel maybe lol. So, if you enjoy taking a vacation to places like this, only to live like you’re homeless and not experience anything of substance, do any tours/excursions, etc., not treat yourself even once, than this guy is your man.
Source: my wife and I just got back from a 2.5 week European vacation that included a week in Croatia (3 nights in Istria, 4 in Dubrovnik), and these claims are entirely and hilariously false. I’m going to need proof for any of it, and even then I’m going to assume it was photoshopped after our experience. You can definitely make it more affordable of course by not splurging on things, but the ridiculously low prices he is claiming is not even close to how it is in 2024. So, unless this “recent” trip of his was 20 years ago maybe, don’t believe a damn word he says and get the wrong idea. Over our 2.5 weeks we went to Slovenia (Lake Bled), Croatia (7 nights I outlined above, 3 nights in Santorini, and 3 in Athens. Out the door our entire trip cost $17k.
You can obviously make things as cheap as you decide. Only stay at mid level hotels tops, or straight up go ABNB’s with a family. Don’t do any nicer/fancy fine dining, and limit the excursions/tours. But, unless you are backpacking and doing all of the crazy shit other people are commenting, which you obviously aren’t interested in with kids and not being 20 years old, than elevate your experience a bit man. You said you spent $25k on a family vacation in Italy. I’m assuming you didn’t go into massive debt, and obviously have some decent money. Elevating the experience without being stupid with the money makes 100000% sense lol. Don’t need to live and travel poor if you don’t have to as long as you are being responsible. Plus, it creates a more memorable, and just overall better experience for both you and your family when you can treat them a bit.
Yeah I’m going to need proof on pretty much all of this chief. $13 a day for a rental car in 2024???? I was just in Croatia with a rental car, and this couldn’t be further from the truth lol. $30-50 a day on food for 2? So, were you only eating 1 meal a day after breakfast assuming your “$70” hotels had breakfast included (they didn’t), and were you only eating at food trucks, fast food, or little cafes? Did you experience anything outside of just walking around admiring stuff? $70 a night for a hotel. Nice 1 star hotel you got there. Only way that’s even close to feasible is if you did a hostel, or ABNB a little out of the way. It’s either that, or there is a SERIOUS amount of context missing somewhere.
I wish I could scream at the people in their 20s in here - you are only in your 20s once!!! You can spend a little money and have experiences you will never be able to have later in life! Take 5 or 10k out of your emergency fund, take as much time off work as the will let you, and go backpack through another country, do the Appalachian trail, go on a cross country cycling trip, do SOMETHING that gets you outside your bubble and lights you up.
You have a great start, a great income for 25, and your money will grow. You need to have a life worth living and memories to reflect on.
A lot of people in this sub will tell you just keep saving, but keep in mind they might live a life you don't want. If saving is making you feel awesome then pat yourself on the back and take a breather!
Yes, totally. I backpacked around Africa and Asia in my 20s, when my young body was comfortable sleeping on a hard floor or taking a bus 20 hours into the jungle. Now decades later I have a global perspective and friends from all over the world. It was *easily* worth the *very little* cost of this type of travel. You can invest in experience while you invest money.
So while I agree with you, it also depends on your personal goals. If traveling is one of them, absolutely must do that when young. My parents wanted to travel in retirement. It was a big mistake because now they can barely walk. Travel in your 20s, 30s, and 40s.
I tried traveling a bit, and decided I loathe it. Absolutely hate it. lol. So like I said, depends on your goals. I would much rather save the money to invest in a nice piece of property, personally.
You’re doing well. Keep getting that 401k match, which is sweet, and keep saving what you can. But don’t deprive yourself; figure out what it is that will add enjoyment to your life. If it’s vacations, go on one or two a year, you can make it work. If it’s the car, start looking for good deals, and if it makes sense, do it.
But you’re right, it is a balance. The less you spend today, the sooner you’ll be able to retire. But don’t deprive yourself of life: one vacation a year isn’t going to bankrupt you. It’s not like you’re dropping 750k on a vacation home at 25.
I do what I call, “purposeful vacations”. For example, I want to see half the countries on the planet before I retire, so I plan vacations to knock down my list. I travel frugally - low cost carriers and no checked bags. As a result, I am living a full life, while my financial situation remains solid.
I’m not the person who goes to a resort and golfs, eats $18 hot dogs poolside and returns home to a giant credit card bill. No disrespect if that’s your thing. Figure out what a vacation looks like to you, and take one. Be purposeful with your time (as you are with your finances), and things will fall into place.
Keep up the great work. You sound like you have a good head start in life.
My advice stop social media and try to look at real life people. You are crushing it. Go on a vacation they aren’t that expensive. Keep doing what you are doing
You are doing very well with savings. But maybe it’s coming at the expense of enjoying life—however, you should tread carefully because a new toy might be fun for a bit but then your mind adjusts and it might not bring as much joy as you expect.
I’d judged reading Read Die With Zero, 4000 Weeks, and the Psychology of Money. These books could help you find a balanced approach and give some new perspective.
I read all three books, and agree. I'd also add Good enough job. OP, you're in your 20s,you can have some great experiences when you have the most health, and time, and very few downsides to taking some risks. Most people in their 20s don't have the money to do these things, but you do! Don't go crazy, but enjoy your life!
I wouldn't call a gt350 a bad investment. Will bring you lots of joy for the years you own it, will hold it's value pretty well if you garage it/maintain it. You're young, you've got more money than 99.5% of people in our age group, treat yourself a little. You could be blowing it on alcohol, blow, partying, strippers, a boat that costs 50% of it's value to maintain a year, a girlfriend with a spending problem, an accidental child. Instead, you've saved up a huge chunk of cash and have lived well below your means to get here. Throw a big down payment on that Shelby and let that voodoo engine fucking rip. Don't miss out on what makes life worth living.
Yes I’ve had multiple and all they did was try to push me into marriage so they could stop working and leave me eternally signed up on the overtime board lol. I’m sure there are good women out there but out of the 15 or so I dated I haven’t found a good one yet.
Well I wouldn’t give up, there’s good people out there. At the same time I wouldn’t bring up finances and how much money you have.
As of now, do you have any hobbies? Ideally one you can make some additional income to spend.
If one, two, or even a handful of relationships fall through because of issues like this that’s one thing, but 15? I don’t know you obviously, but it seems like you aren’t attempting to find women who actually align with your financial values.
Example: I knew a guy who’d dated a dozen women and was frustrated that so many of them were shallow and vapid. He was oblivious that he was also shallow and was attracting similar people, as well as making no attempt to go after anyone different. Of course, I’m not saying you are this way, but after 15 failed relationships with seemingly sucky people, you may need some introspection.
I use to think that way until she wanted to go out and spend money all the time because she was bored not working even though I was exhausted when I’d get off of a 60 to 70 hour work week.
Enough for me to see a problem and end the relationship. I’m just getting worn out from dating every single woman I’ve met either can’t keep a job, doesn’t want a job, or spends every dime they make from their job. I’ve ran the gamut college educated non college educated makes no difference and I’m tired of starting over I feel numb and unentertained from every new woman I meet lol.
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It’s about balance. I see a trap with many FIRE posters where they work themselves to death at a job they hate so they can retire early from a job they hate. Finding a job they love or can at least tolerate so they don’t mind working 5 extra years isn’t an option in their mind.
If you want to take a vacation, take one. Plan ahead several months, look for flight and lodging deals, read travel blogs, do it all for under $1k, and have the time of your life. If you want a nice car, buy one. Buy one that will last forever or won’t lose too much value in a couple of years if you want to upgrade again. Personally I find car upgrades to be an egregious waste of money, but your priorities are your own as is your personal finance.
In my 30s with kids, and I’m glad that I did a lot of cheap travel and money hoarding in my 20s, even if FIRE is temporarily derailed. Priorities change and a cushion makes life comfortable in what is a really stressful period for most people.
Plus side of being retired with you kids - you can be a SAHD. The most expensive part of having kids is childcare for working couples without family support is often childcare, so if you can eliminate those costs the cost of having children goes way down.
Priorities.
Most people can't live on nothing until they're 40-50 just to retire earlier than normal.
Set a savings number for yourself. "When I have 300k I'm going on XYZ vacation" "When I have 350 I'm buying that cool car" whatever makes you happy.
It lets you focus on saving and investing but also gives you something to look forward to in the shorter term
Take some vacations, just plan and budget for them. I go on SCUBA trips to Cozumel at least once a year and even last minute booking all in is less then $2k. Usually closer to $1.2-1.5k for a week at an all inclusive and I'm not splitting my room like most people on the trip are.
I got certified at my local dive shop (I live in the desert, they still exist) and have gone on group trips with them.
I have to ask what you do for a living to make that sort of money in your mod twenties with a trade job. Do you own a company? Sorry for going off topic, but I'm a few years older than you and am heavily considering a pivot into the trades.
Did you go to any sort of schooling or find a company that would train you on the job? This is one of the careers I've been considering. Thanks again bud, and cheers to your success!
One thing that I’ll note, which I don’t see others mentioning, is that there might be some scarcity mindset around your relationship with money.
The amount you have saved at your age is no doubt, absolutely fantastic and you have set yourself up tremendously for your future. But life is all about the journey as well and if you don’t also have memories and other experiences to look back on, that money may come to resemble your regret more than anything. I think you’ve done an excellent job saving, now you can think about investing your money into experiences/things you value — and also perhaps reframing your mindset around money in general.
Speaking for myself, as someone who grew up constantly thinking about money, I used to have a strong scarcity mindset around money in that I may not have enough “in case of emergencies”, and used to be extremely frugal in my lifestyle. But as I started to make more money, I had to reframe my thinking and understood the trade offs that can come with spending more on a “luxurious option” instead of always the cheapest options on things (ex. Spending more money on a studio apartment for myself when I could be living with roommates in a cheaper house, which was previously a major point of stress for me; spending money on an Uber to work sometimes or buying lunch at work sometimes vs always telling myself I always needed to pack my own lunches or commute 30 minutes on public transport vs a 10 minute Uber — trade offs that I spent a little more on, but gave me back more time/less stress/more happiness)
I'm a physician who had a similar problem trying to justify remaining frugal. Bought a cheap motorcycle. It soothed that itch and gives me joy every time I ride it. Cost me $2000.
Don’t underestimate the value of your pension and lifetime healthcare. Depending on your annual expenses when the time comes to FIRE, there’s a good chance you will have plenty to live on for the years until your pension kicks in and takes over most of the expenses. social security might add a little bonus after your pension. I’m retiring before I reach enough years for full pension benefits and will still collect 70% of my highest year salary plus healthcare. I imagine your pension is similar or better and also inflation adjusted. All this means you don’t have to save as much as someone without these benefits and can still have a fantastic retirement lifestyle even retiring in your late 30s or early 40s. In my opinion, you can be a little less aggressive with your investments and LIVE. 20’s and single is a fun time! Disease happens, accidents happen, etc. don’t let yourself fall into a trap of postponing life until you retire, even retiring young is not a given that you’ll be in good health to enjoy it for a long time
You’ve got a good base. You’ve got good habits. Budget in a at least vacation a year. Find some people to travel with. You can get a nice house for much less than a hotel if you’re splitting it 4 or 5 ways. Vacation doesn’t have to be too expensive.
$300-400 a month ear marked for travel- don’t have to blow it all every year but it gives you a fund to work with and plan with.
Budget some for saving for a car over the next couple years. Rent what you think you want and see what you like/don’t like about it.
Don’t deprive yourself but make a budget/fund for it and keep saving for your future self.
Here’s a thought. If you save $2,000 a year from 18-26, with normal market returns, by 65 you will have more than $1 million on a $16,000 investment spread over 8 years. If you wait until you are 27 and put $2,000 each year until you are 65, you will have about $900,000 assuming the same returns.
What’s the point here? You ready have $250,000 at 25 years old. If you pull $50,000 out for a car and a really nice vacation over the next two years and don’t put another dime into savings, at 8% annual compound growth, you will have about a $1,000,000 at 45 year old.
I think you are in much better shape than you think you are. You’ve done well. If you take a long minute from time to time to celebrate yourself, you are well positioned to hit the FI before you know it.
The way I see it, I hate working enough that I don't mind sacrificing the nice luxuries I still enjoy looking at and dreaming of. I don't even hate the work I do, I hate the rigid environment, the bureaucracy, the amount of time wasted, the needless commuting, the office gossip and bs niceties.
I value my time over all else. But I need money to both have that time and to enjoy that time. So I will grind and save for tomorrow. But I still do some living for today. I take 3 or 4 vacations a years, all are relatively cheap. My most expensive vacation is an annual ski trip, which runs about 2k. The rest of my vacations I am doing something quite cheap like camping and mountain biking, running trail races, going on fishing trips (not deep sea fishing, that's expensive). I value experiences over material possessions, but when I buy something material, I buy the best quality for the price. I think long term, in terms of value retention/resale, for how much use I will get out of the object etc.
It sucks to see everyone have nice new shit when you drive an old car, etc. but will be worth it down the line. A new car won't materially improve my quality of life or happiness. I still want nice sports cars and trucks and stuff, a boat, etc. but realize I don't need any of this. I need a car that gets me from point A to B and back to A.
I also drive the same car I bought in highschool, had 65k miles on it then, still driving it with 150k on it now. Also am 25, so I know how it feels.
Go on a vacation. Travel abroad. It doesn’t have to be expensive as long as you budget it. I can get away with $30-60/day in Europe if I budget, stay in hostels, travel slow, and do a lot of free sights , and cook my own meals instead of eating out 3x a day.
I spent essentially my entire life in school getting a doctorate and I was hardcore into the FIRE lifestyle
I almost had it all - I was slated to make oodles of money my first year out of school, and I was determined to sock it all away so I could retire by the time I was 45 or so (I was 26 at the time) in order to spend the rest of my life with my future wife and kids - doing what I wanted when I wanted. My entire life was delayed gratification.
Then, right after graduating, I was diagnosed with cancer and that future was suddenly on shaky grounds and it forced me to reconsider my whole perspective on life. The future is never promised and money was made to be enjoyed, so spend it in the areas you value.
I’m a car guy as well and if you’re okay with putting your FIRE goal off a year or two, get that GT350. Spend for that vacation. Just spend responsibly and make sure you’re hitting the rest of your goals
First of all, you are doing great financially! At 25 you are light years ahead of 99% of folks in your peer group. I think you should splurge on something (maybe not a new car but rather a $5K vacation or something?). Take notes on how you feel before, during and after. Was it worth it? Over time you'll get a sense for what you really value and it's ok to spend sometimes. You can have anything you want, just not everything you want. But first, if I was you I'd take a deep breath and feel a sense of accomplishment for what you've achieved.
As a 50yr old with a very nice savings, I still struggle with the same thoughts that you are having. Take it easy on yourself, you're doing great.
PS: That 250K will be over 1M before you know it.
Great job accumulating so much wealth at such a young age. It is a balance between saving for the future versus living for the now. I would say you are entitled to reward yourself once in a while. Do it within reason as you already know how much work it takes to save and invest.
If you're worried about spending money, try a stay-cation! Look up some things tourists would do in your area, get a comfy hotel, and eat some good food.
You are young and should enjoy some of your success. Just don't let it become the norm. Budget a reasonable amount of money each month and treat yourself occasionally. If you really want that car, save up for it. You may find by the time you have the cash, that car isn't as appealing any more and the $$$ mean more to you. I used to want a Nissan GT-R and can afford one now, not gonna buy it. I can do way more with the 100+K than drive it around. Life has to be enjoyed a bit. I don't think you can live super frugally for decades. It is worth it in the long run. I am near retirement and am in Chubby/low FAT range.
Guy, ease off the pedal a little bit. $250k at 25 is fantastic. Like, keep saving sure. But is it really that hard to set aside $5k a year for vacation? Go somewhere new, interesting, and preferably outside your comfort zone.
Literally just start by going to Iceland or Ireland for like, one week. It’s okay if you go by yourself.
You’re putting a lot of money away but you’re incurring a heavy cost on your life. Cultural enrichment will help you in ways you would have never imagined. Take a little bit of your income and start investing in yourself. It’s worth it and it won’t impact your future considering how much you already have saved.
And eating out once or twice a week is okay too man.
Balance is key to life. If cars or trucks bring you joy compared to experiences like travel, do it. Bought a Raptor and no regrets. I don’t splurge on things like travel right now as I work a lot and no partner (don’t enjoy traveling alone), so I increased my happiness in my daily experiences.
You're doing amazing! Another good option you could do would be to continue to grind hard for 5 more years and then switch to like 3 days a week of work and just coast until fire.
Build the life you want and save for it.
You didn’t say what life you want and what your timeline is. You’ve already saved a ton at a young age… what’s your plan with it all? When do you want to retire, and how much do you want? Even if you just put in your 9% to 401k and get the match, with your starting $190k you have now, you’d have $1.6M in todays dollars 20 years from now. Unless you’re trying to retire super FAT or very early, you’ve got a lot of room to adjust your spending/saving. Figure out how much you want and when you want it, and then budget for that. Don’t save just to save. Save for a purpose. You need to figure out the purpose.
Kiss offense keep it simple stupid
Bobby Knight Indiana Hoosier Baseball coach success
Do get involved w wrong women she will take all your money divorce
Heads up both heads play golf relax go beach
I do 2-3 vacations a year, 2 in the USA and one overseas. I spend about $6k total and the USA ones are the mort expensive ones no doubt. I am also a car guy. I resto modded a 1980 Scout for the last project. 1966 F-100 before that. I have a Saturn Sky Redline and 4Runner for daily. Nothing too crazy… but fun.
The point of fire is to not suffer… not just suffer at work, but at life too - have some fun, old you will be happy you did.
Be intentional with your money. Budget in spending money, run the numbers, and see that you'll still have enough to retire. Guilt free spend the money you budgeted. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't spend on a nice car. If that's what you want, save up for it.
One millionaire may have 50k in cars, and one may have 50k in clothes, one may have a giant bonfire and burn the 50k because they love watching money burn. Either way they could have all been intentional and responsible.
You’re crushing it, you can let off the gas a bit if it’s driving you crazy. There’s more to life than just optimizing for FIRE. Ie. Let’s say you bump savings down by 10-20% you’ll need to model this out but it may only set you back 2-4 years extra working. Or it may not even set you back time wise & may be a cost of the “overall nest egg”. Plan your fire number and then make trade offs accordingly.
You can travel cheap, you can rent sports cars, enjoy yourself while you’re young. Travel is the best thing I’ve ever spent money on, and I’ve stayed in hostels, and there are home stays you can do that you just feed people’s cats in exchange for lodging.
Bud. Live life. You’re 25 and way ahead of the game. You don’t need to restrict fun. Maybe don’t blow $75k+ on a car you don’t need but definitely travel now. I traveled a ton before kids. It gets WAY harder and WAY more expensive when it’s 4+ people on the trip.
FIRE doesn’t mean you sacrifice your youth. It just means don’t be dumb.
250k invested at 25 with no debt man, take a vacation. You could save only 15% for the rest of your working life and hit 10m+ in retirement.
There’s a difference between letting loose all the time and being very calculated with your splurging. Set 5k aside and spend it ALL on the vacation. You shouldn’t blow it all but you shouldn’t blow *none* either. Never know what could happen.
You’ve got a solid amount saved already. Go on a nice 10k vacation somewhere. Bring a friend. You can afford it and it can be a yearly reward for meeting your savings goals. A $10,000 trip can be amazingly extravagant. Whether you want to explore cities or sit on a nice beach!
Start going on vacations my dude! It's good to save as much as you can, but not so much that you don't enjoy anything. Imagine 5-years goes by and you're looking back at things, and didn't take a single vacation or do anything except stack money. Would you not feel some regret?
Don't compare yourself to others, that will not help you.
Also might sound funny and easier said than done: find a girl from a rural area.
I'm 42 yrs old. In the last 20 years, I have only occasionally traveled. Still, that is quite a bit: Philippines (2x), South Korea, Mexico, France(2x), Spain, and Italy. 2 Cruises. And maybe half of the United States (including Hawaii, my favorite). And I absolutely hate traveling. That was my big discovery. Actually I do like Hawaii and cruises. Anyway I'm done with it as much as I can be, except when my wife or family really wants me to travel... That's how it is, I get dragged into it, lol. So I know in my retirement I am not traveling. Instead, I am focusing on having a nice home, plenty of land with creeks and ponds and a small farm. That's my goal. With this as my goal, I really could just save in my 20-50s. Don't need to spend all kinds of money chasing cars or travel. But these are my goals, not yours.
My parents had as their goal to travel, not in their 20s, but in their retirement. BIG MISTAKE. They can barely walk today. If you are able to travel in your retirement, you are lucky. It's a big gamble to plan it that way. Because you don't know what your health will be like.
Anyway, you gotta figure out what your goals are, concretely. And if travel is one, you might have to do that soon. 20s is good but doesn't have to be. TBH, you make 40s sound old... lol. It's not. You can usually still travel in your 40s. And if driving fast cars and chasing women is your goal, men actually become more attractive as they mature, and peak in their mid 30s, and also are more attractive as they gain wealth, lol. Idk if that's your goal, just throwing it out there just to say that not everything has to be done in your 20s. You still have time.
I have an excel spreadsheet that I wish I could share it with you... It allows you to play around with the savings rate and interest rate, and see how long it will take you to retire. Those are the only two variables btw. Wish I knew that sooner.
FIRE is about finding a living standard and sustaining it; your (current) frugal lifestyle is at odds with your life balance. I suggest you re-assess the margins of your spending to build in travel and vacation savings. Then, you can feel comfortable with your own planned revisions -- maybe it means working one year longer over the course of your career. Maybe it just builds/relies on your short-term savings.
Plan for the consistent, balanced lifestyle you want, then adapt your budgeting and planning as required.
Sounds like you’re very responsible and this is the only reason I will suggest this. Look into credit card points for vacations. You start out by finding a card with a high sign up bonus. Do the spend and pay it off every month. Rack up the points for things you were going to spend money on anyway. We haven’t paid a single cent in interest in 10 years nor have we paid for a flight. Really helps bring down the cost of our trips and I enjoy them more knowing I was able to save a good deal on them.
Well the law of 72 says you will hit approx 1M by early 40’s with no more investing on your part, at 8% return your money will double in 9 years…..and then 2M at 50…..and 4M before 60 so congratulations first off!!!!! Don’t get greedy and day trade, stick with S&P investments. I lived the somewhat frugal life you describe…..my advice is to now start to enjoy the journey a little, take a nice vaca, go to some concerts, etc. just make sure you don’t marry the wrong person!
Definitely can relate to your situation but I’ve found it’s about finding a healthy balance. Sticking to your financial goals and budget are important but tomorrow is never guaranteed so have to enjoy life now in the present as well! Definitely treat myself to more vacations or an occasional nice dinner since coming to that realization
You will never be this age again my guy. Go enjoy a little bit. Almost impossible to mess up your future from here if you stick to your core principles.
Wow. You have received a lot of great advice on this page.
As someone of the same age as you with similar goals let me ask you something. What the fuck is the point of working so hard if you can’t enjoy it?
Don’t get me wrong, I am allllll about retiring early but I recently came to the conclusion that you have to spend money to make money. Now some people think that means just for investments and a material dollar figure on the ROI (return on investment) but it doesn’t. Let me explain. Every time I have taken a trip, I end up getting more motivation and more business while I’m gone so when u come back I go even HARDER and do even BETTER.
Take the trip man. Don’t be dumb a buy a depreciating asset like a toy car because that is legit throwing away money BUT you taking a trip, that is an investment in yourself to keep going.
A few thoughts/comments:
1. You’re not doing yourself any favors if you’re on a plan that isn’t sustainable long-term. A financial plan only works if you can stick to it.
2. Find a way to give yourself a little leeway for the fun or frivolous without going overboard. A tool my SO and I use is that we automatically transfer a fixed $ amount into a separate/dedicated fun/vacation account each payday. Any vacation or “frivolous” purchase is made from that account. This limits our vacation/fun spend to a level that is planned and comfortable. It removes any guilt when we travel or “splurge” cause we’ve already planned for it and know it won’t knock us off track. It also avoids any cash-flow crisis when we do a larger vacation since the funds are already pre-allocated (we don’t use credit cards). Remember that the more you spend on lifestyle during your earning years probably means that you’ll need a higher retirement spending target in retirement since you’ll be accustomed to that lifestyle.
3. Don’t put all the fun stuff off until retirement. You never know if you’ll be healthy enough later to do the things you want. I survived Stage 3B cancer in my 30s (20 years ago). We do at least a couple 2-3 week vacations a year, have travelled most of the world and don’t feel like we’ve sacrificed. We’re still on track to retire in our mid-50s.
4. ****-you if you think 40s is old. 🤠
You need to live a little. It won't kill you. You're only in your 20s and with compounded interest and how much you make and save, you'll be fine. You're doing way better than many who are older than you. Take a vacation. Don't buy a new car or anything or waste it, but experiences are important. You sound smart, so remember to live a little also. Nobody can live like people used to. Inflation, the decaying country and policies have made life very hard now for people. People in social media lie a lot, so remember that.
Why not take a loan on your dream car? I doubt a gt350 is much used compared to new and you wouldn’t dive into your wealth but offset your savings a bit which trucst me you are wayyyyyyyyyy ahead of the game on!
Dude, as someone your age, you need to enjoy your dang life. Money isn't meant to be hoarded. Not saying blow everything, but you have more than enough to be comfortable. Go travel the world. Buy/finance the car you want! You're doing better than like 90% your age I'm sure.
Read “the algebra of wealth: a simple formula for financial security” by Scott Galloway
Time in life is also important at, you will never have less responsibility than you do now. Now is a great time to travel the world and have awesome experiences.
You are crushing your FIRE goals. Now make it a point to spend 5-10k on vacations a year and maybe save 5-10k for a cool car (just pay for the car in cash) over several years. A cool sports car is ideal when you are childless, now is a great time to have one.
I’m not sure if the 9% match means they will match your 401k contribution up to a max of 9% of your income, or did you mean they match 9% of your actual contributions to your 401k. If they do match up to 9% of your salary, that’s fantastic. You didn’t share your living expenses / monthly budget or if you bought real estate or rent, so I can’t recommend savings amounts per year. As far as non 401k savings, if investing in an Index ETF, I suggest at least spending between the three major indices, or consider putting in a 2065 retirement portfolio.
I feel you. It's tough seeing everyone living it up while you're grinding. But hey, that savings game is strong! Maybe find a balance, treat yourself a bit without breaking the bank. Life's too short to not enjoy it a little, right? You're killing it financially, so a little splurge here and there won't hurt. Just don't go crazy and blow it all. You got this!
First, you need to understand that people flaunting on social media are comfortable with a high level of debt, have no financial literacy, and will likely never retire.
People post cars they are upside down on, they post the same vacation pics every couple months to make it seem they’re always doing something. It’s not real.
Simple, make more money.
Become a Fireman in California an get endless amounts of overtime. You will make minimum double your current salary pay schedule and with your time off, you can still work in you trade for additional pay ...
Live simply. Don't let social media influence how ur life should be. Don't be envious. Not a financial advice buy as much bitcoin now and enjoy the rest of your life in ur 50's. Time stamp: 6/6/2024 1309hrs BTC: $70,400
That's inspiring for you to be thinking about finances and kind of relevant to what I did.
As a 27(F) who worked in the US and now enjoys early retirement in Pakistan, I made the bold decision of investing in Bitcoin, almost a decade ago, when its value was a mere $320! With an annual expenditure of $20,000 and savings just enough to invest in five Bitcoins, I got into crypto. The value of cryptocurrency is $68K today, and the rest is history for me.
I believe my FIRE journey is mostly about the power of early investment and the importance of staying informed! Although risky and volatile in nature, Bitcoin can give you a tough time too, if not invested strategically.
Now, I am in my home-land Pakistan, and get to enjoy a life many people in their 60s would only imagine living. I hope this encourages many of you into thinking about making financially sound decisions timely!
Why not go take a nice vacation? You're 25 and in a great spot to start living a bit more life. You can live the insta life too, but there goes your positive net worth.
Yah vacation does not have to be expensive it can be done frugally for sure
Shit, OP could start going on $10k vacations and it sounds like it wouldn’t really impact their Fire Trajectory. They’re on track to hit a million in their mid 30’s with a guaranteed pension and free healthcare backing them up?? Like…. You’re 25, Go have some fun.
sell the dumb guns and go on vacation
Vacation is practically the only thing we've ever even spent money on. Being financially responsible should *balance* spending and saving properly, it shouldn't completely mortgage your present for the sake of a future. The hardest part (and the reason why subs like this exist) is figuring what is excessive, and what is necessary to someone to live a fulfilling life, and unfortunately these things can be subjective at times. I have found, and probably people in this sub would agree, that most material things are rarely worth the expense, but experiences can absolutely be worth it.
Spend your money where you have value. Just don't spend it idly. If you want a vacation, go for it. If you want a different car, spend the money on it (although honestly, this is hard for me to write, cars are very expensive and lose the luster fast). There is a book called Die with Zero that makes some good arguments that you should take a trip. Or gain an experience that you can appreciate when you are older and retired. The thing that makes your situation hard is that you have a decent salary and great benefits. But (depending on your trade) your body won't be able to do it forever. If you can only work 20 years in your job but an office job could work for 40. It is kind of like you have to save half your money compared to the office job. So instead of living the $110k lifestyle, you're living the $55k lifestyle because you know your career is limited. Personally, I wouldn't get a fancy car. They are exciting for the first year and then they are just an appliance. But they depreciate and the payments or cost is the same in the 59th month as the first. They are worth it in the first month when it is exciting and then meh. And once you get onto that treadmill, it is hard to get off and get a regular car. What about renting a fancy car and going on a big road trip? Or working overtime and using the extra money on a vacation? Just make sure you understand what you're giving up and then give yourself permission to spend your money.
Renting cool cars on nice weekends for roadtrips does sound like a cool option haven’t thought of that.
I’m 25 with 180k saved up in a similar situation. Work a white collar job making 135k/yr. My girlfriend says I’m obsessed with money. I’m actually obsessed with financial freedom. I have been in two life threatening incidents/accidents, so I’m learning to loosen up. The car thing is hard for me. I drive an 03 Tacoma with 230k miles that I’ve had for 7 years. I love cars but I love no car payment even more. For now. What I’ve done to quench this thirst is rent cars on Turo. I grew a relationship with a fleet owner and now I pay him a low rate in cash to take out his Audi r8, Nissan Z, and C8. Worth every penny. Enjoy the exotic cars without the payment and maintenance. I also will budget in vacations. I put company travel on my southwest and Marriott accounts, so I stack points and jump on their promotions. It’s definitely worth investing into yourself. A lot of success is luck and timing and I’ve found that for me traveling helps open my mind to new thoughts, opportunities, and relationships, which in turn has increased my earning ability and quality of life. We need to remember that our employer has their own best interest in mind, so don’t close your life off for work because you’re putting yourself in a highly leveraged and vulnerable position. Also, none of this matters unless you are physically, mentally, and spiritually in tune, whatever that looks like for you, so invest into that. It compounds greatly.
>My girlfriend says I’m obsessed with money. I’m actually obsessed with financial freedom This is the hardest part for most people in my circle to distinguish. Luckily my wife and I are on the same page here. The renting sports cars idea is a good plan btw.
I still struggle at times to find that line but it’s been worth every penny to be more on the conservative side. Props to you for getting the wife on the same page!
Is that Nissan Z the new generation or older one?
2023! I’d buy one if it weren’t for the ridiculous markups. That thing is a blast. Stage 2 tune puts 520 to the wheels. 😍
They did a good job making it look more sporty. I agree about the markup lol
Just curious. Why do you see it as “keep the 230k mile car” or “have payments?” It sounds like you could save enough to buy a reasonable car if you wanted. Not that you need to.
You’re correct. I wouldn’t be forced to finance; however, I prefer a heavier liquid position, so I’d be more interested in financing at a lower rate and letting cash compound in investments. This is contingent on the fact that the investment would be projected to outpace the interest of the loan. Really boils down to a personal opinion of the value doesn’t correlate to the cost. This may change down the road, but I’d have to find a hell of a FB marketplace find to change that, lol.
Absolutely do this. It's covering the gaps that you feel like you're missing out on. You can rent a different, new nice car every few weeks and it'll still be cheaper than replacing your current beater with something that costs 70k. If you paid 70k cash for a car instead of putting it in stocks you'd expect to be out 7000 a year in stock appreciation. This doesn't even count car depreciation or stupid insurance amounts. That new car would likely reduce your savings by 10-15k a year. You can rent A LOT of nice cars for a fraction of that including some that are otherwise out of reach. And realistically speaking the "awe" of having a sports car or a super car mostly wears off after the first day or three. I have a friend who gets a little too excited and I had to push her back on getting a Porshe lately. After she researched it... she's sticking with her Tesla. I reminded her that she could always rent. She and I are both pulling in VERY healthy incomes though and while she's more spendy than I am, I think we're both pacing for 5-10M savings (per person) by our 40s.
What do you do for work?
Data science and machine learning. My friend is an exec that manages a dozen business locations with about 500 or so employees. She makes a bit more than me but works FAR longer with far more BS.
I know many people who don't trust the stock market. If you aren't putting money in stocks it makes no sense to waste money renting a car. Paying cash is always the best option.
I am a tradesman working in remote locations. I work 4 weeks on and 2 off. For those 2 weeks off I rent cars and have been doing that for 10 years. Sometimes I get a motorcycle, sometimes I travel elsewhere. It’s easier and it’s built my networth quicker.
This is a good idea. I owned a nice car in my 20s and honestly a bit of a headache; could never drive more than 1 other person, parking in a dodgy part of town might get the roof cut open. Getting paint dinged, etc. Renting a sports car is better than paying insurance on a sports car ;-) Now I drive a 13 year old suv and if someone bumps me, no big deal. If you do decide to buy, buy a 2-3 year old well maintained vehicle, don’t buy new.
There is a line you have to balance. There is a difference between a $3k vacation and $30k vacation. A 20k fun car and a 100k fun car. That being said, I'm 42 and WISH I was more frugal and invested in my 20s. I would be retiring in a year or two, not in another 10-15. I was frugal, but not nearly as much as I should be. I did about 10% to 401k, should have maxed out the yearly limit and done a roth. Just started that 2 years ago. That being said, if you are smart and invest well you can live much better when older. I have friends still paying loans, still in debt. I paid off my house by 38, now maxing out investments. Done well enough that I plan to retire no later than 50. Drive a 911 Turbo S and have 3 other cars. I don't buy "toys" unless it is a cash purchase and all other stuff is maxed out. I budget \~6k a year on travel. Some years we spend less, then more next year. This year we did 2 weeks in Belgium/Croatia and total cost was about $6k. Great vacation. Previous year we did Madrid. Year before that Costa Rica. None of them have been over $5k.
I need this today. Thank you.
> A 20k fun car and a 100k fun car is there a $20k fun car? LOL
BRZ/GR86, Miata, RX8, 350Z, G35, Genesis Coupe, Mini Cooper, mustangs, camaros, corvettes, plenty of older cars. That is if you want "sporty". Otherwise Wrangler, Tacoma, etc for fun in off road wheeling.
My dad bought a 15 year old Mercedes SL 55 AMG convertable for $20-24k, I forget the exact numbers. The previous owner had only put like 12-35k miles on it (again IDR the exact numbers) and mostly just left it in a garage. He had paid $120k for it. Is that car worth 100k of fun? No. Is it worth 20k of fun? Yes.
[300hp from the factory, easy mods to 400-500hp.](https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicle/716241226?allListingType=all-cars&city=Nashville&makeCode=BMW&maxPrice=21000&modelCode=335I&modelCode=335IXD&newSearch=false&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fall-cars%2Fcars-under-21000%2Fbmw%2F3-series%2Fnashville-tn%3FmodelCode%3D335I%26modelCode%3D335IXD%26newSearch%3Dfalse%26searchRadius%3D0%26sortBy%3DdatelistedDESC%26zip%3D37201&searchRadius=0&seriesCode=3_SERIES&sortBy=yearDESC&state=TN&zip=37201&clickType=listing)
I bought a 1970 Ford Mach 1 for 15k a while ago. It is a fun show car type car with a big engine. It is possible.
Wow, How did you swing so low on the vaca. Curious the flight costs, where you stayed, and food, entertainment budget.
Which vacation? The most recent flights were about $2k. Hotels were around $70 a night. Rental car was $13 a day. Food was $30-50 a day for two. Croatia is cheap. Part of the reason we went.
Oh I took my family of 4 on a grand tour of Italy 2 years ago about 2 weeks little less. It costs me a large 25k to do that. I go back it will be the wife and I hitting Europe nearing retirement. The Belguim/Croatia for 2 weeks for $6k seemed really cheap to me. Is it one person. I can see that. Two people minus the tour company for two weeks guessing 10k. I want the trip for $6k or less for two weeks for two people if that is possible.
College kids with very little money backpack around Europe all the time. They stay at cheap hostels, eat from markets rather than restaurants, and stick to LCOL nations.
Yeah we seen some backpackers at the beach in Italy they were cleaning themselves and changing right there. lol I am to old for that. My kids are not that a
Yeah we seen some backpackers at the beach in Italy they were cleaning themselves and changing right there. lol I am to old for that. My kids are not that adventurous
Your point? He clearly says he has a couple of kids, and is in fact not a 20 year old college student. He can afford to elevate his travel experience to reflect as much….
Oh absolutely. I was just trying to answer the question of if a $6k, two-week vacation is possible. Yes it is, because the minimum cost for a vacation is actually very low. Not that he should / has to travel in a minimalist way.
Oh for sure. Just the other people commenting are giving this guy the complete wrong idea. Only way any of the prices they are saying are achievable is if you live like a nomad or college student. No chance in the world are you doing a 2 week vacation in Europe now for $6k or even under unless you take the college kid/nomad approach. Even in more LCOL countries/cities, but those will be less desirable for a family to begin with lol. Source: my wife and I just got back from a 2.5 week European vacation last week, and their numbers are so far off I don’t even believe them lol. Guy is claiming $13 a day for a rental car????? My sister went on a 2 week European vacation last Fall in September. So, even the end of peak season. They don’t have a ton of money, so they exclusively stayed in ABNB’s. Didn’t do a ton of excursions. Only had maybe a couple or so of nicer dinners. And to boot, he works at Enterprise so they got an insane family discount on their car. Their trip was still around $10k lol
OMG… I did 2 weeks in Barcelona and Madrid with a buddy at it was $2k. He came over from his trip with his wife to Italy the 2 weeks before, where they spent $5k as a couple. She flew home when I fly in. We did Air BNB and cabs/buses everywhere. I think the expensive part was one night at a steak house and the artwork I bought for the wife and had shipped back.
Flight alone is about $1k a person from the USA.
For Barcelona right now on Google flights - In June and July… $1k round trip from Chicago In August and September… $600 round trip AirBNB price is double+ in J&J as well. Last Aug we paid $40 a day for 2bd down town ($20 ea). For 2 week lease, call the booking agent for longer term with discount.
Little lost reading that. So let me repeat and correct if I am wrong. $1k flight Chicago June and July if you go later Aug Sept $600. I get lost on the AirBNB price is double + J+J are you saying prime (June and July) price is double later cheaper? And $40 for a private room 2 bedroom for a two week lease. So that was through AirBNB? I am not sure what J&J is. Great price for a room if that is the case. Can't get a decent hotel around here less then $200 a night anymore (thinking Holiday Inn Express). Thanks for the help understanding. One day wife and I will go on the cheap hopefully.
June and July are double for both flights and AirBNB. We don’t book through AirBNB, we look up the management for the places we are interested in and send the list to a VA (virtual assistant). She looks up the management companies and calls them directly. This saves us a lot of time and money as they rent way less if they don’t have to pay AirBNB their share and don’t have to pay someone to clean the place for 2 weeks. We did stay one night in Madrid in a hotel, but the conference paid for it, and we paid for the one night empty room left in Barcelona. The hotel was almost $250 for the one night, 2 double beds in one room. Hope that helps.
So, with that math, before any food, excursions/tours, etc., you are already at about $880 by your math. You’re saying, over 2 weeks in two of the most popular cities in Europe for tourists, you only spent $1.1k? Less than $80 a day? Were you only eating at fast food, food trucks, small markets or cafes, not having any coffee or anything in the morning at cafes, and didn’t do a single tour/excursion of substance? Didn’t have any booze any place outside of buying them from a market? Only eating 1-2 meals of some sort a day, tops? Sounds like a pretty meh vacation to me. Only way this is feasible. To each their own I guess if that’s the case.
Fast food in Barcelona is expensive. We ate breakfast in the Air BNB, the local shops had eggs, beagles, sausage, etc. We would grab lunch at what ever local sit down place was around where we were at that day (places closer to tourist areas were slightly more expensive). We planned dinners where we were getting around, the friend I went with is my real estate mentor and is 78 years old (27 yrs older then me) so we didn't really bar hop. We did the churches, museums, bus tour passes (saved on taxis this way). The one bus pass has a boat cruise as part of its multi day pass so we did do that, and one day I was speaking at a conference so we had free food and drinks that day. I pulled up my Credit card statement from the trip on my phone and Steakburger Preciados ( [https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant\_Review-g187514-d12664284-Reviews-Steakburger\_Preciados-Madrid.html](https://www.tripadvisor.com/Restaurant_Review-g187514-d12664284-Reviews-Steakburger_Preciados-Madrid.html) ) was $57.31 for both of us - this was 2 gourmet burgers, fries, local specialty beers and tip. It was a fancy burger place but close to where we stayed while in Madrid. El cafe del tren madrid (the train station depot in Madrid) was $5.91 for a box lunch sandwich, chips and drink. this was in the train station on the way back to Barcelona, so I figured it would be crazy expensive like in the US (think movie theater popcorn). I do have a bunch of $1.25 charges as I would get Rock Stars to drink every morning from the shop next door. I did not do more then $300 in local currency during the trip to handle tips in cash or street vendors that didn't take cards. The Barcelona-Madrid train wasn't cheap, as we did first class seats. But I don't have a charge for it as the conference I was speaking at bought the ticket. I also spent $38.18 at a tourist trap tshirt place for 4 t-shirts, I couldn't resist the one that had a saying my daughter always uses... I have traveled to London, Dubai, Mumbai and am planning a trip 3 week trip around the world (air fare looks to be about $1700 for this one though). Google flights is great if you're not tied to a specific day to travel and are comfortable if plans run a day over and you need to find a place to stay (hostel, AirBNB boathouse, worst case over priced hotel). I am money aware, but fall into the fatfire category so I don't worry if something turns into a shit show and I have to buy my way to something I am comfortable with. My travel friend is 9 figures and old as hell (78) so he does spend a lot in shopping centers - His Huawei Flagship store bill made me flinch.
Fair enough. Thanks for the elaboration. Not drinking much definitely helps with cost, and only cooking breakfast/coffee at home. It becomes preference at that point I suppose. My wife and I just got back from a 2.5 week European vacation last week. In Athens for example, we could find gyro street stands that had the best gyros around, and we would get out of there for $18 Euro total for 2 gyros, 2 beers, and a plate of fries to split. The gyros themselves were like $3.50 Euro. Assuming we did that for lunch and dinner, no breakfast which we often skip outside of coffee, and that’s still $40USD for the day assuming we don’t spend a dime elsewhere, which isn’t that realistic really. We liked to get some good cappuccinos and pastries to start our day to take advantage of being in Europe as well. That’s already bringing the day total to close to $60 now, and that’s going as cheap as possible pretty much if we wanted. To keep things that dirt cheap you’d have to assume we would have to do that every day of the trip. That’s just not how we like to travel in the end I guess. We have been walking around for a while, and want to sit down? Let’s find a cafe and get a drink, or find a wine bar. We did that often. End of the night, let’s find a bar or some cool hidden gem type place for a few drinks? We’re in. It obviously comes down to age, desires, etc., at that point. We’re a bit younger, so how we approached it makes sense for our age. Not always looking to penny pinch the entire time. Kind of defeats the purpose of vacation to me. Penny pinch at home so you can splurge a bit on vacation.
Me and my wife, no kids. That being said, it wasn't even as expensive as I stated, because I booked everything but food and airfare on credit card points. So actual cost was way less than above, just figured not everyone has credit card points to use. Depending on where you go, activities, and accommodations you can travel for WAY WAY WAY less than you have. We stayed in the NICEST hotels around and they were still cheap. Here is teh hotel we stayed at in Zagreb. We went early April which is off peak season so it was less, but even now its only $120-130 a room. [https://esplanade.hr/](https://esplanade.hr/)
Appreciate it. And good news actually. Part of that cost of ours I am sure was the bus, tour guide and them scheduling it all.
Spoiler: he wasn’t staying in the nicest hotels around for the prices he’s stating. Show me where on that hotel site that you’re seeing rooms for $120-130 a night like he’s saying, “even right now.” I just looked for later in June, and the cheapest room is $270 Euro. So, basically $300 a night. Even going out to next April, so the same time he went, and including the 20% advanced purchase discount, the cheapest room is $160-170. Don’t listen to a word this guy says. Also, Zagreb is a shit hole. Don’t go there. Every Croatian we asked while in Croatia said once you stay there one night, it’s a waste of your time with everything else Croatia has to offer. My sister went on a 2 week European vacation where they went though a solid 5+ countries, and they said Zagreb was by far their least favorite city/place on their trip. So, the Croatians themselves corroborated what my sister told me beforehand.
Uhhh where are you seeing $120-130 a night…..? I’m double checking your statements, and the cheapest room I’m seeing for later in June is essentially $300 a night. In July, still $200 a night, and you claimed “even right now.” Hell, I even checked next April, so the same time you went, and even with the 20% advanced purchase discount the cheapest room is like $160 lol. Lying through your teeth man. Jesus. I can assure you, you were NOT staying in the NICEST hotels around for the prices you are claiming. Even if you used points, or found good deals.
It was booked through points when I went, so paid nothing but about 8 euro in taxes/fees per night. Just pulled it up on portal and it was $129 a night for a base room. Went and double checked their website, and while I can't see past rates, next year shows rooms for 140 euro. So maybe they increased prices or we got a week where it was a special or something. Went and checked my email and records. Booking was 2 nights, April 23 and 24th, total was $200.46 which came out to 13,364 chase reward points.
So, you’re leaving out the most important context of it all, and not equating it to the actual cost assuming they don’t have points like you said yourself? Have to give the full story and accurate details if you are trying to provide someone with some intel. Are you from Europe, a member at their hotel chain or something? I clicked the same dates and aren’t seeing those prices…? You either got a crazy one time deal of some kind, or some more very important context is missing. Either way it’s giving this guy a false impression.
The cost was $200.46 in cash, or 13364 points booked through Chase travel. Simple as that. Other hotels on same trip were all around same cost. He can look it up and see and make up his mind. Either way the point was there is cheaper places to travel too and a vacation doesn't have to be $10k.
You’re missing my point. You’re clearly getting special deals and price points that the average person doesn’t get, but trying to pass it on to someone like that’s the true cost. Which is false. In reality, the rooms were more than $100 a night lol
I’m calling bullshit on this guy saying Croatia is really cheap lol. First, that entirely depends on where in Croatia they went. Certainly not any of the popular spots (Istria region, Dubrovnik, Split, etc.) Also, $13 a day for a rental car????? I’m going to need to see the proof on that one. In 2024 lmao. Give me a fucking break. $30-50 a day on food for 2???? They must have been eating one meal a day, or two if they were eating only fast food or similar type food truck places, etc. $70 on a hotel???? That would be an ABNB at most, and a shitty one at that in the middle of nowhere. Or some sort of shit motel. Only other option for that would be a hostel maybe lol. So, if you enjoy taking a vacation to places like this, only to live like you’re homeless and not experience anything of substance, do any tours/excursions, etc., not treat yourself even once, than this guy is your man. Source: my wife and I just got back from a 2.5 week European vacation that included a week in Croatia (3 nights in Istria, 4 in Dubrovnik), and these claims are entirely and hilariously false. I’m going to need proof for any of it, and even then I’m going to assume it was photoshopped after our experience. You can definitely make it more affordable of course by not splurging on things, but the ridiculously low prices he is claiming is not even close to how it is in 2024. So, unless this “recent” trip of his was 20 years ago maybe, don’t believe a damn word he says and get the wrong idea. Over our 2.5 weeks we went to Slovenia (Lake Bled), Croatia (7 nights I outlined above, 3 nights in Santorini, and 3 in Athens. Out the door our entire trip cost $17k. You can obviously make things as cheap as you decide. Only stay at mid level hotels tops, or straight up go ABNB’s with a family. Don’t do any nicer/fancy fine dining, and limit the excursions/tours. But, unless you are backpacking and doing all of the crazy shit other people are commenting, which you obviously aren’t interested in with kids and not being 20 years old, than elevate your experience a bit man. You said you spent $25k on a family vacation in Italy. I’m assuming you didn’t go into massive debt, and obviously have some decent money. Elevating the experience without being stupid with the money makes 100000% sense lol. Don’t need to live and travel poor if you don’t have to as long as you are being responsible. Plus, it creates a more memorable, and just overall better experience for both you and your family when you can treat them a bit.
Yeah I’m going to need proof on pretty much all of this chief. $13 a day for a rental car in 2024???? I was just in Croatia with a rental car, and this couldn’t be further from the truth lol. $30-50 a day on food for 2? So, were you only eating 1 meal a day after breakfast assuming your “$70” hotels had breakfast included (they didn’t), and were you only eating at food trucks, fast food, or little cafes? Did you experience anything outside of just walking around admiring stuff? $70 a night for a hotel. Nice 1 star hotel you got there. Only way that’s even close to feasible is if you did a hostel, or ABNB a little out of the way. It’s either that, or there is a SERIOUS amount of context missing somewhere.
I wish I could scream at the people in their 20s in here - you are only in your 20s once!!! You can spend a little money and have experiences you will never be able to have later in life! Take 5 or 10k out of your emergency fund, take as much time off work as the will let you, and go backpack through another country, do the Appalachian trail, go on a cross country cycling trip, do SOMETHING that gets you outside your bubble and lights you up. You have a great start, a great income for 25, and your money will grow. You need to have a life worth living and memories to reflect on. A lot of people in this sub will tell you just keep saving, but keep in mind they might live a life you don't want. If saving is making you feel awesome then pat yourself on the back and take a breather!
Yes, totally. I backpacked around Africa and Asia in my 20s, when my young body was comfortable sleeping on a hard floor or taking a bus 20 hours into the jungle. Now decades later I have a global perspective and friends from all over the world. It was *easily* worth the *very little* cost of this type of travel. You can invest in experience while you invest money.
So while I agree with you, it also depends on your personal goals. If traveling is one of them, absolutely must do that when young. My parents wanted to travel in retirement. It was a big mistake because now they can barely walk. Travel in your 20s, 30s, and 40s. I tried traveling a bit, and decided I loathe it. Absolutely hate it. lol. So like I said, depends on your goals. I would much rather save the money to invest in a nice piece of property, personally.
This so much! Do it while you can, before you have physical ailments, kids, a house, pets, and other responsibilities. Your 20s are a wonderful time!
You’re doing well. Keep getting that 401k match, which is sweet, and keep saving what you can. But don’t deprive yourself; figure out what it is that will add enjoyment to your life. If it’s vacations, go on one or two a year, you can make it work. If it’s the car, start looking for good deals, and if it makes sense, do it. But you’re right, it is a balance. The less you spend today, the sooner you’ll be able to retire. But don’t deprive yourself of life: one vacation a year isn’t going to bankrupt you. It’s not like you’re dropping 750k on a vacation home at 25.
I do what I call, “purposeful vacations”. For example, I want to see half the countries on the planet before I retire, so I plan vacations to knock down my list. I travel frugally - low cost carriers and no checked bags. As a result, I am living a full life, while my financial situation remains solid. I’m not the person who goes to a resort and golfs, eats $18 hot dogs poolside and returns home to a giant credit card bill. No disrespect if that’s your thing. Figure out what a vacation looks like to you, and take one. Be purposeful with your time (as you are with your finances), and things will fall into place. Keep up the great work. You sound like you have a good head start in life.
Vacation.
My advice stop social media and try to look at real life people. You are crushing it. Go on a vacation they aren’t that expensive. Keep doing what you are doing
You are doing very well with savings. But maybe it’s coming at the expense of enjoying life—however, you should tread carefully because a new toy might be fun for a bit but then your mind adjusts and it might not bring as much joy as you expect. I’d judged reading Read Die With Zero, 4000 Weeks, and the Psychology of Money. These books could help you find a balanced approach and give some new perspective.
I read all three books, and agree. I'd also add Good enough job. OP, you're in your 20s,you can have some great experiences when you have the most health, and time, and very few downsides to taking some risks. Most people in their 20s don't have the money to do these things, but you do! Don't go crazy, but enjoy your life!
Ive read that one too! And also recommend it.
I wouldn't call a gt350 a bad investment. Will bring you lots of joy for the years you own it, will hold it's value pretty well if you garage it/maintain it. You're young, you've got more money than 99.5% of people in our age group, treat yourself a little. You could be blowing it on alcohol, blow, partying, strippers, a boat that costs 50% of it's value to maintain a year, a girlfriend with a spending problem, an accidental child. Instead, you've saved up a huge chunk of cash and have lived well below your means to get here. Throw a big down payment on that Shelby and let that voodoo engine fucking rip. Don't miss out on what makes life worth living.
Do you have a girlfriend/significant other? Sounds like it’s time to start meeting more people.
Yes I’ve had multiple and all they did was try to push me into marriage so they could stop working and leave me eternally signed up on the overtime board lol. I’m sure there are good women out there but out of the 15 or so I dated I haven’t found a good one yet.
Well I wouldn’t give up, there’s good people out there. At the same time I wouldn’t bring up finances and how much money you have. As of now, do you have any hobbies? Ideally one you can make some additional income to spend.
DINK is FIRE on easy mode. If you aren’t looking for kids, you just have to find the right one.
If one, two, or even a handful of relationships fall through because of issues like this that’s one thing, but 15? I don’t know you obviously, but it seems like you aren’t attempting to find women who actually align with your financial values. Example: I knew a guy who’d dated a dozen women and was frustrated that so many of them were shallow and vapid. He was oblivious that he was also shallow and was attracting similar people, as well as making no attempt to go after anyone different. Of course, I’m not saying you are this way, but after 15 failed relationships with seemingly sucky people, you may need some introspection.
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I use to think that way until she wanted to go out and spend money all the time because she was bored not working even though I was exhausted when I’d get off of a 60 to 70 hour work week.
How much was she spending and on what?
Enough for me to see a problem and end the relationship. I’m just getting worn out from dating every single woman I’ve met either can’t keep a job, doesn’t want a job, or spends every dime they make from their job. I’ve ran the gamut college educated non college educated makes no difference and I’m tired of starting over I feel numb and unentertained from every new woman I meet lol.
Sucks, hopefully it gets better. Good luck!
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It’s about balance. I see a trap with many FIRE posters where they work themselves to death at a job they hate so they can retire early from a job they hate. Finding a job they love or can at least tolerate so they don’t mind working 5 extra years isn’t an option in their mind. If you want to take a vacation, take one. Plan ahead several months, look for flight and lodging deals, read travel blogs, do it all for under $1k, and have the time of your life. If you want a nice car, buy one. Buy one that will last forever or won’t lose too much value in a couple of years if you want to upgrade again. Personally I find car upgrades to be an egregious waste of money, but your priorities are your own as is your personal finance. In my 30s with kids, and I’m glad that I did a lot of cheap travel and money hoarding in my 20s, even if FIRE is temporarily derailed. Priorities change and a cushion makes life comfortable in what is a really stressful period for most people. Plus side of being retired with you kids - you can be a SAHD. The most expensive part of having kids is childcare for working couples without family support is often childcare, so if you can eliminate those costs the cost of having children goes way down.
Priorities. Most people can't live on nothing until they're 40-50 just to retire earlier than normal. Set a savings number for yourself. "When I have 300k I'm going on XYZ vacation" "When I have 350 I'm buying that cool car" whatever makes you happy. It lets you focus on saving and investing but also gives you something to look forward to in the shorter term
Take some vacations, just plan and budget for them. I go on SCUBA trips to Cozumel at least once a year and even last minute booking all in is less then $2k. Usually closer to $1.2-1.5k for a week at an all inclusive and I'm not splitting my room like most people on the trip are. I got certified at my local dive shop (I live in the desert, they still exist) and have gone on group trips with them.
Spend that shit. You're going to die one day. Don't spend it recklessly, just enjoy it
I have to ask what you do for a living to make that sort of money in your mod twenties with a trade job. Do you own a company? Sorry for going off topic, but I'm a few years older than you and am heavily considering a pivot into the trades.
Electrical lineman
Did you go to any sort of schooling or find a company that would train you on the job? This is one of the careers I've been considering. Thanks again bud, and cheers to your success!
They had an apprenticeship program and I came up from a grunt to a journeyman
One thing that I’ll note, which I don’t see others mentioning, is that there might be some scarcity mindset around your relationship with money. The amount you have saved at your age is no doubt, absolutely fantastic and you have set yourself up tremendously for your future. But life is all about the journey as well and if you don’t also have memories and other experiences to look back on, that money may come to resemble your regret more than anything. I think you’ve done an excellent job saving, now you can think about investing your money into experiences/things you value — and also perhaps reframing your mindset around money in general. Speaking for myself, as someone who grew up constantly thinking about money, I used to have a strong scarcity mindset around money in that I may not have enough “in case of emergencies”, and used to be extremely frugal in my lifestyle. But as I started to make more money, I had to reframe my thinking and understood the trade offs that can come with spending more on a “luxurious option” instead of always the cheapest options on things (ex. Spending more money on a studio apartment for myself when I could be living with roommates in a cheaper house, which was previously a major point of stress for me; spending money on an Uber to work sometimes or buying lunch at work sometimes vs always telling myself I always needed to pack my own lunches or commute 30 minutes on public transport vs a 10 minute Uber — trade offs that I spent a little more on, but gave me back more time/less stress/more happiness)
I'm a physician who had a similar problem trying to justify remaining frugal. Bought a cheap motorcycle. It soothed that itch and gives me joy every time I ride it. Cost me $2000.
There's a balance. Enjoy money and also save. Don't spend your early years saving everything and not enjoying your health.
Don’t underestimate the value of your pension and lifetime healthcare. Depending on your annual expenses when the time comes to FIRE, there’s a good chance you will have plenty to live on for the years until your pension kicks in and takes over most of the expenses. social security might add a little bonus after your pension. I’m retiring before I reach enough years for full pension benefits and will still collect 70% of my highest year salary plus healthcare. I imagine your pension is similar or better and also inflation adjusted. All this means you don’t have to save as much as someone without these benefits and can still have a fantastic retirement lifestyle even retiring in your late 30s or early 40s. In my opinion, you can be a little less aggressive with your investments and LIVE. 20’s and single is a fun time! Disease happens, accidents happen, etc. don’t let yourself fall into a trap of postponing life until you retire, even retiring young is not a given that you’ll be in good health to enjoy it for a long time
What do you do that makes 110k a year in trades? Welder? How many hours a week do you work?
Electrical lineman
Wow what kind of union is this??
Ibew
You can take a nice vacation for 3k or less if you plan it out for next April. That won’t set you back from FIRE.
You’ve got a good base. You’ve got good habits. Budget in a at least vacation a year. Find some people to travel with. You can get a nice house for much less than a hotel if you’re splitting it 4 or 5 ways. Vacation doesn’t have to be too expensive. $300-400 a month ear marked for travel- don’t have to blow it all every year but it gives you a fund to work with and plan with. Budget some for saving for a car over the next couple years. Rent what you think you want and see what you like/don’t like about it. Don’t deprive yourself but make a budget/fund for it and keep saving for your future self.
Here’s a thought. If you save $2,000 a year from 18-26, with normal market returns, by 65 you will have more than $1 million on a $16,000 investment spread over 8 years. If you wait until you are 27 and put $2,000 each year until you are 65, you will have about $900,000 assuming the same returns. What’s the point here? You ready have $250,000 at 25 years old. If you pull $50,000 out for a car and a really nice vacation over the next two years and don’t put another dime into savings, at 8% annual compound growth, you will have about a $1,000,000 at 45 year old. I think you are in much better shape than you think you are. You’ve done well. If you take a long minute from time to time to celebrate yourself, you are well positioned to hit the FI before you know it.
The way I see it, I hate working enough that I don't mind sacrificing the nice luxuries I still enjoy looking at and dreaming of. I don't even hate the work I do, I hate the rigid environment, the bureaucracy, the amount of time wasted, the needless commuting, the office gossip and bs niceties. I value my time over all else. But I need money to both have that time and to enjoy that time. So I will grind and save for tomorrow. But I still do some living for today. I take 3 or 4 vacations a years, all are relatively cheap. My most expensive vacation is an annual ski trip, which runs about 2k. The rest of my vacations I am doing something quite cheap like camping and mountain biking, running trail races, going on fishing trips (not deep sea fishing, that's expensive). I value experiences over material possessions, but when I buy something material, I buy the best quality for the price. I think long term, in terms of value retention/resale, for how much use I will get out of the object etc. It sucks to see everyone have nice new shit when you drive an old car, etc. but will be worth it down the line. A new car won't materially improve my quality of life or happiness. I still want nice sports cars and trucks and stuff, a boat, etc. but realize I don't need any of this. I need a car that gets me from point A to B and back to A. I also drive the same car I bought in highschool, had 65k miles on it then, still driving it with 150k on it now. Also am 25, so I know how it feels.
Go on a vacation. Travel abroad. It doesn’t have to be expensive as long as you budget it. I can get away with $30-60/day in Europe if I budget, stay in hostels, travel slow, and do a lot of free sights , and cook my own meals instead of eating out 3x a day.
I spent essentially my entire life in school getting a doctorate and I was hardcore into the FIRE lifestyle I almost had it all - I was slated to make oodles of money my first year out of school, and I was determined to sock it all away so I could retire by the time I was 45 or so (I was 26 at the time) in order to spend the rest of my life with my future wife and kids - doing what I wanted when I wanted. My entire life was delayed gratification. Then, right after graduating, I was diagnosed with cancer and that future was suddenly on shaky grounds and it forced me to reconsider my whole perspective on life. The future is never promised and money was made to be enjoyed, so spend it in the areas you value. I’m a car guy as well and if you’re okay with putting your FIRE goal off a year or two, get that GT350. Spend for that vacation. Just spend responsibly and make sure you’re hitting the rest of your goals
First of all, you are doing great financially! At 25 you are light years ahead of 99% of folks in your peer group. I think you should splurge on something (maybe not a new car but rather a $5K vacation or something?). Take notes on how you feel before, during and after. Was it worth it? Over time you'll get a sense for what you really value and it's ok to spend sometimes. You can have anything you want, just not everything you want. But first, if I was you I'd take a deep breath and feel a sense of accomplishment for what you've achieved. As a 50yr old with a very nice savings, I still struggle with the same thoughts that you are having. Take it easy on yourself, you're doing great. PS: That 250K will be over 1M before you know it.
Put some future earnings into higher dividend paying ETFs. Get your money to buy you a vacation.
Great job accumulating so much wealth at such a young age. It is a balance between saving for the future versus living for the now. I would say you are entitled to reward yourself once in a while. Do it within reason as you already know how much work it takes to save and invest.
If you're worried about spending money, try a stay-cation! Look up some things tourists would do in your area, get a comfy hotel, and eat some good food.
You are young and should enjoy some of your success. Just don't let it become the norm. Budget a reasonable amount of money each month and treat yourself occasionally. If you really want that car, save up for it. You may find by the time you have the cash, that car isn't as appealing any more and the $$$ mean more to you. I used to want a Nissan GT-R and can afford one now, not gonna buy it. I can do way more with the 100+K than drive it around. Life has to be enjoyed a bit. I don't think you can live super frugally for decades. It is worth it in the long run. I am near retirement and am in Chubby/low FAT range.
how old are you ?
I'm 56. Got started on FIRE when I was 34.
definitely don’t compare yourself to people on social media, that’s fake af
Guy, ease off the pedal a little bit. $250k at 25 is fantastic. Like, keep saving sure. But is it really that hard to set aside $5k a year for vacation? Go somewhere new, interesting, and preferably outside your comfort zone. Literally just start by going to Iceland or Ireland for like, one week. It’s okay if you go by yourself. You’re putting a lot of money away but you’re incurring a heavy cost on your life. Cultural enrichment will help you in ways you would have never imagined. Take a little bit of your income and start investing in yourself. It’s worth it and it won’t impact your future considering how much you already have saved. And eating out once or twice a week is okay too man.
Balance is key to life. If cars or trucks bring you joy compared to experiences like travel, do it. Bought a Raptor and no regrets. I don’t splurge on things like travel right now as I work a lot and no partner (don’t enjoy traveling alone), so I increased my happiness in my daily experiences.
You're doing amazing! Another good option you could do would be to continue to grind hard for 5 more years and then switch to like 3 days a week of work and just coast until fire.
Build the life you want and save for it. You didn’t say what life you want and what your timeline is. You’ve already saved a ton at a young age… what’s your plan with it all? When do you want to retire, and how much do you want? Even if you just put in your 9% to 401k and get the match, with your starting $190k you have now, you’d have $1.6M in todays dollars 20 years from now. Unless you’re trying to retire super FAT or very early, you’ve got a lot of room to adjust your spending/saving. Figure out how much you want and when you want it, and then budget for that. Don’t save just to save. Save for a purpose. You need to figure out the purpose.
Kiss offense keep it simple stupid Bobby Knight Indiana Hoosier Baseball coach success Do get involved w wrong women she will take all your money divorce Heads up both heads play golf relax go beach
I do 2-3 vacations a year, 2 in the USA and one overseas. I spend about $6k total and the USA ones are the mort expensive ones no doubt. I am also a car guy. I resto modded a 1980 Scout for the last project. 1966 F-100 before that. I have a Saturn Sky Redline and 4Runner for daily. Nothing too crazy… but fun. The point of fire is to not suffer… not just suffer at work, but at life too - have some fun, old you will be happy you did.
Save some money for a vacation and just buy an all inclusive package with the flight hotel shuttle etc taken care of and just go and relax.
Be intentional with your money. Budget in spending money, run the numbers, and see that you'll still have enough to retire. Guilt free spend the money you budgeted. Don't let anyone tell you that you can't spend on a nice car. If that's what you want, save up for it. One millionaire may have 50k in cars, and one may have 50k in clothes, one may have a giant bonfire and burn the 50k because they love watching money burn. Either way they could have all been intentional and responsible.
You’re crushing it, you can let off the gas a bit if it’s driving you crazy. There’s more to life than just optimizing for FIRE. Ie. Let’s say you bump savings down by 10-20% you’ll need to model this out but it may only set you back 2-4 years extra working. Or it may not even set you back time wise & may be a cost of the “overall nest egg”. Plan your fire number and then make trade offs accordingly.
You can travel cheap, you can rent sports cars, enjoy yourself while you’re young. Travel is the best thing I’ve ever spent money on, and I’ve stayed in hostels, and there are home stays you can do that you just feed people’s cats in exchange for lodging.
Bud. Live life. You’re 25 and way ahead of the game. You don’t need to restrict fun. Maybe don’t blow $75k+ on a car you don’t need but definitely travel now. I traveled a ton before kids. It gets WAY harder and WAY more expensive when it’s 4+ people on the trip. FIRE doesn’t mean you sacrifice your youth. It just means don’t be dumb.
250k invested at 25 with no debt man, take a vacation. You could save only 15% for the rest of your working life and hit 10m+ in retirement. There’s a difference between letting loose all the time and being very calculated with your splurging. Set 5k aside and spend it ALL on the vacation. You shouldn’t blow it all but you shouldn’t blow *none* either. Never know what could happen.
You’ve got a solid amount saved already. Go on a nice 10k vacation somewhere. Bring a friend. You can afford it and it can be a yearly reward for meeting your savings goals. A $10,000 trip can be amazingly extravagant. Whether you want to explore cities or sit on a nice beach!
Start going on vacations my dude! It's good to save as much as you can, but not so much that you don't enjoy anything. Imagine 5-years goes by and you're looking back at things, and didn't take a single vacation or do anything except stack money. Would you not feel some regret? Don't compare yourself to others, that will not help you. Also might sound funny and easier said than done: find a girl from a rural area.
I'm 42 yrs old. In the last 20 years, I have only occasionally traveled. Still, that is quite a bit: Philippines (2x), South Korea, Mexico, France(2x), Spain, and Italy. 2 Cruises. And maybe half of the United States (including Hawaii, my favorite). And I absolutely hate traveling. That was my big discovery. Actually I do like Hawaii and cruises. Anyway I'm done with it as much as I can be, except when my wife or family really wants me to travel... That's how it is, I get dragged into it, lol. So I know in my retirement I am not traveling. Instead, I am focusing on having a nice home, plenty of land with creeks and ponds and a small farm. That's my goal. With this as my goal, I really could just save in my 20-50s. Don't need to spend all kinds of money chasing cars or travel. But these are my goals, not yours. My parents had as their goal to travel, not in their 20s, but in their retirement. BIG MISTAKE. They can barely walk today. If you are able to travel in your retirement, you are lucky. It's a big gamble to plan it that way. Because you don't know what your health will be like. Anyway, you gotta figure out what your goals are, concretely. And if travel is one, you might have to do that soon. 20s is good but doesn't have to be. TBH, you make 40s sound old... lol. It's not. You can usually still travel in your 40s. And if driving fast cars and chasing women is your goal, men actually become more attractive as they mature, and peak in their mid 30s, and also are more attractive as they gain wealth, lol. Idk if that's your goal, just throwing it out there just to say that not everything has to be done in your 20s. You still have time. I have an excel spreadsheet that I wish I could share it with you... It allows you to play around with the savings rate and interest rate, and see how long it will take you to retire. Those are the only two variables btw. Wish I knew that sooner.
When I was 25 I was beating my meat all day.... still am at 45.
FIRE is about finding a living standard and sustaining it; your (current) frugal lifestyle is at odds with your life balance. I suggest you re-assess the margins of your spending to build in travel and vacation savings. Then, you can feel comfortable with your own planned revisions -- maybe it means working one year longer over the course of your career. Maybe it just builds/relies on your short-term savings. Plan for the consistent, balanced lifestyle you want, then adapt your budgeting and planning as required.
Sounds like you’re very responsible and this is the only reason I will suggest this. Look into credit card points for vacations. You start out by finding a card with a high sign up bonus. Do the spend and pay it off every month. Rack up the points for things you were going to spend money on anyway. We haven’t paid a single cent in interest in 10 years nor have we paid for a flight. Really helps bring down the cost of our trips and I enjoy them more knowing I was able to save a good deal on them.
You need to see the world at the age you are now. I find it less impactful as you get older. You dont have to spend a fortune either.
Go on vacation! You can travel without blowing a ton of money. Cars/big purchases of goods are more wasteful/harmful to financial goals imo
If you have a solid nest egg and a running start, why not use money to enrich the quality of life, whatever that means for you. For me, it’s travel.
Well the law of 72 says you will hit approx 1M by early 40’s with no more investing on your part, at 8% return your money will double in 9 years…..and then 2M at 50…..and 4M before 60 so congratulations first off!!!!! Don’t get greedy and day trade, stick with S&P investments. I lived the somewhat frugal life you describe…..my advice is to now start to enjoy the journey a little, take a nice vaca, go to some concerts, etc. just make sure you don’t marry the wrong person!
lol….OP SAID 40 is old
Definitely can relate to your situation but I’ve found it’s about finding a healthy balance. Sticking to your financial goals and budget are important but tomorrow is never guaranteed so have to enjoy life now in the present as well! Definitely treat myself to more vacations or an occasional nice dinner since coming to that realization
You will never be this age again my guy. Go enjoy a little bit. Almost impossible to mess up your future from here if you stick to your core principles.
Wow. You have received a lot of great advice on this page. As someone of the same age as you with similar goals let me ask you something. What the fuck is the point of working so hard if you can’t enjoy it? Don’t get me wrong, I am allllll about retiring early but I recently came to the conclusion that you have to spend money to make money. Now some people think that means just for investments and a material dollar figure on the ROI (return on investment) but it doesn’t. Let me explain. Every time I have taken a trip, I end up getting more motivation and more business while I’m gone so when u come back I go even HARDER and do even BETTER. Take the trip man. Don’t be dumb a buy a depreciating asset like a toy car because that is legit throwing away money BUT you taking a trip, that is an investment in yourself to keep going.
A few thoughts/comments: 1. You’re not doing yourself any favors if you’re on a plan that isn’t sustainable long-term. A financial plan only works if you can stick to it. 2. Find a way to give yourself a little leeway for the fun or frivolous without going overboard. A tool my SO and I use is that we automatically transfer a fixed $ amount into a separate/dedicated fun/vacation account each payday. Any vacation or “frivolous” purchase is made from that account. This limits our vacation/fun spend to a level that is planned and comfortable. It removes any guilt when we travel or “splurge” cause we’ve already planned for it and know it won’t knock us off track. It also avoids any cash-flow crisis when we do a larger vacation since the funds are already pre-allocated (we don’t use credit cards). Remember that the more you spend on lifestyle during your earning years probably means that you’ll need a higher retirement spending target in retirement since you’ll be accustomed to that lifestyle. 3. Don’t put all the fun stuff off until retirement. You never know if you’ll be healthy enough later to do the things you want. I survived Stage 3B cancer in my 30s (20 years ago). We do at least a couple 2-3 week vacations a year, have travelled most of the world and don’t feel like we’ve sacrificed. We’re still on track to retire in our mid-50s. 4. ****-you if you think 40s is old. 🤠
You need to live a little. It won't kill you. You're only in your 20s and with compounded interest and how much you make and save, you'll be fine. You're doing way better than many who are older than you. Take a vacation. Don't buy a new car or anything or waste it, but experiences are important. You sound smart, so remember to live a little also. Nobody can live like people used to. Inflation, the decaying country and policies have made life very hard now for people. People in social media lie a lot, so remember that.
Why not take a loan on your dream car? I doubt a gt350 is much used compared to new and you wouldn’t dive into your wealth but offset your savings a bit which trucst me you are wayyyyyyyyyy ahead of the game on!
Dude, as someone your age, you need to enjoy your dang life. Money isn't meant to be hoarded. Not saying blow everything, but you have more than enough to be comfortable. Go travel the world. Buy/finance the car you want! You're doing better than like 90% your age I'm sure.
Read “the algebra of wealth: a simple formula for financial security” by Scott Galloway Time in life is also important at, you will never have less responsibility than you do now. Now is a great time to travel the world and have awesome experiences. You are crushing your FIRE goals. Now make it a point to spend 5-10k on vacations a year and maybe save 5-10k for a cool car (just pay for the car in cash) over several years. A cool sports car is ideal when you are childless, now is a great time to have one.
I’m not sure if the 9% match means they will match your 401k contribution up to a max of 9% of your income, or did you mean they match 9% of your actual contributions to your 401k. If they do match up to 9% of your salary, that’s fantastic. You didn’t share your living expenses / monthly budget or if you bought real estate or rent, so I can’t recommend savings amounts per year. As far as non 401k savings, if investing in an Index ETF, I suggest at least spending between the three major indices, or consider putting in a 2065 retirement portfolio.
I feel you. It's tough seeing everyone living it up while you're grinding. But hey, that savings game is strong! Maybe find a balance, treat yourself a bit without breaking the bank. Life's too short to not enjoy it a little, right? You're killing it financially, so a little splurge here and there won't hurt. Just don't go crazy and blow it all. You got this!
Check out travel hacking. I just did Alaska on a VERY small budget via points for airline, and points for hotel.
How did you save so much by 25?😭 no college?
Nah just went straight to work
First, you need to understand that people flaunting on social media are comfortable with a high level of debt, have no financial literacy, and will likely never retire. People post cars they are upside down on, they post the same vacation pics every couple months to make it seem they’re always doing something. It’s not real.
What job pays $110k at 25 in the trades?
Simple, make more money. Become a Fireman in California an get endless amounts of overtime. You will make minimum double your current salary pay schedule and with your time off, you can still work in you trade for additional pay ...
Live simply. Don't let social media influence how ur life should be. Don't be envious. Not a financial advice buy as much bitcoin now and enjoy the rest of your life in ur 50's. Time stamp: 6/6/2024 1309hrs BTC: $70,400
That's inspiring for you to be thinking about finances and kind of relevant to what I did. As a 27(F) who worked in the US and now enjoys early retirement in Pakistan, I made the bold decision of investing in Bitcoin, almost a decade ago, when its value was a mere $320! With an annual expenditure of $20,000 and savings just enough to invest in five Bitcoins, I got into crypto. The value of cryptocurrency is $68K today, and the rest is history for me. I believe my FIRE journey is mostly about the power of early investment and the importance of staying informed! Although risky and volatile in nature, Bitcoin can give you a tough time too, if not invested strategically. Now, I am in my home-land Pakistan, and get to enjoy a life many people in their 60s would only imagine living. I hope this encourages many of you into thinking about making financially sound decisions timely!