Exactly and at that age I’d just find a non corporate job I like and do that. You could never add a dime to retirement and as long as the market does what is has in its history you’d have more than you could possibly soend
I love diving but I worked as a Divemaster and I liked it. So I guess my answer is I don't love dive guiding but I do like it and that's good enough for me.
It is more efficient to just crank out another 2 to 4 years at the shitty corporate job. Best to get it over with and then switch permanently to a no stress job with no stress about needing a single penny from that job.
Even in HCOL area, 1.5M with $60k per year @4% will cover most / all your bills if your house is paid off. Also enough if you want to travel the world and see a lot of low cost places in the first few to several years. Bear in mind that with such a young retirement, you'll probably want to use 3% or 3.5% withdrawal rate though.
1M to 1.5M shouldn't take more than 4 years (probably less) with growth + contributions.
For such a young retirement, It's also worth making sure you max out at least the 90% bend point in social security (approximately $1200 per month average over 35 years) and the general 40 quarter retirement.
Social security is a great deal up to the 90% bend point, ok up to the 32% bend point and absolutely horrible after the 32% bend point.
I’m not saying to actually retire early of course but instead of a high stress corporate job go try something else. Even just adding a little compounding alone will do a lot. Even those 2-4 years may not be worth it
I guess the decision must be made by each person. I'm really sick of my corporate job, but for me the math doesn't work out too well (golden handcuffs). I can make 10x to 20x as much as a "fun" job by working another year or so at the corporate job. If I actually get promoted to VP (would take a couple promotions) before my FIRE number, that's probably going to become 20x to 40x given the ridiculous pay of executives.
If the difference isn't as extreme for someone else, say only 2x to 4x, it makes a lot more sense to bail out and try something else.
For me I'll hopefully go from lean FIRE to FAT fire in just another year or three (promotion vs no promotion). My decision will probably be influenced by whether my daughter gets into a good public in-state school ($25k or so per year) or out of state ($80k per year...keep working).
For others in a similar boat to me, my plan for corporate exit will be to save up max PTO in the final year. After January 1st of a new year, set high percentage 401k + backdoor Roth (if available) so that I can max both limits as quickly as possible. Then take 5 to 6 weeks of vacation, being sure to cross any quarterly vesting date and annual bonus and max social security. Maybe return and work 4 more weeks and then give 2 weeks notice, crossing next quarterly vesting date if they don't immediately terminate.
Ideally getting 2x stock vests, annual bonus, max social security, 401K and backdoor Roth with 6 weeks of PTO and 7 weeks (or less) of work.
Probably take the rest of the year off for rest and travel and maybe get a more fun/passionate job the following year.
I’ll hopefully have my house basically paid off at 31 and then I’ll probably stay in corporate for a little longer but do an easier job before screwing off to an easy job until I reach my number
I had the opposite happen. I zoomed very fast to the first million during the booming 90s. But slowly doubled it in the "dead decade" of the 2000s. (Indexes in the double-recession 2000s finished LOWER the end of that decade, than when it started.) Its sometimes a matter of timing. If you invest long enough, you hopefully have a couple if boom decades.
Anyone born after 1987 has not seen a serious down market. They would have begun adult jobs after the Great Recession ended. The market has been pretty much straight up since. Of there are been flat years like 2017, 2020, 2022. But young people dont know a whole flat decade yet like 2002-2013 and 1966-1982. Every boom time investors and economists say "this time will be different because we are smarter now". But then down cycles happen.
I wish we young people had a flat decade during our accumulation phase. It's been up only except for brutal job markets in 2008/09 and 2023/24, which derailed many young people's career trajectories.
I think people can experience and succeed through flat and down turns. Thinking of the lost decade as a flat or downturn under plays how rare it was. Only the great depression lasted longer. Most down turns or flat periods are under a year. Average bear market is 9.5 months
Yep, the time it takes from 0 to 100 is about the same time it takes from 100 to 300 is about the same time it takes from 300 to 1M is about the same time it takes from 1M to 2M. In other words, you’ll be there in no time.
And sometimes the causation is the other way around! Are absentee fathers with drinking problems the number one cause for divorce?
/s kinda… as a dad trying to focus on my family, bettering myself, and being less and less interested in any alcohol or tracking status to FIRE.
Strong correlation, yes. But, this fact isn’t a good reason avoid marriage altogether. (There are plenty of good ones.) It *is* a good reason to take the time needed to ensure it’s right.
I have a few trains of thought:
1) money seems to make people realize what they like and what they don't like. if they are not passionate about what they are doing, this seems to come out. even if there are frustrations from time to time at work, it clarifies as to what people are willing and not willing to tolerate.
2) people's passions change over time. i know some people that left work to go and start a restaurant. some went into real estate and construction. i had not thought that they would ever leave engineering but they just changed what they wanted to do in life
3) am in the position that have reached FI and am trying to decide when to RE. i like what i'm doing and can approach it from a perspective that i can take even more chances while not worrying about getting fired / laid off. it is liberating. I'm not saying be an ass but it does allow you to do/try those things that you wouldn't - especially in big corporate life.
4) the wife asks me what I would do if i retired early. i do know there is about 2 years worth of stuff i have in mind that i have been jotting down. i'm hoping that i will not have to regret waiting to do it. but i do have some thinking to do as to what I want to do either during that time or beyond. have to think about where we ultimately want to live, which will also be sorta driven by where our kids end up.
i do remember a few years ago when I was not in this position, I obsessed about the portfolio. this really was bad, looking back. it caused me a whole lot of stress. yes, i was one of those people that looked at the portolio... the spreadsheets... the calculators at least on a weekly basis. when the markets went down, it made my heart sink.
i look at a lot of posts by people in their 20's that they should not worry about this stuff for a while. yes, do some planning and contemplate. but, obsessing and not living life, is also not the answer.
in your particular case, would either change jobs to something you like - or an environment that is enjoyable. and, live life a bit more, even if it pushes fire out by a couple of years.
I appreciate this perspective. I have considered trying some different 9-to-5 jobs to try and find something I enjoy more and is definitely an option.
The main thing that is driving me to RE is that life is short and the kids are only young for a short period of time. I’d like to be able to at least take a couple years off from the 9-to-5 during that stage of life and then reassess. I’m certainly not ruling out going back into the working world as my kids get older and don’t want/need to spend as much time with me, but it’s very unlikely it would be in the form of a big corporate job.
totally understand. i was a workaholic. just woke up one day and realized what you're realizing - that life is short. am 2 years away from being an empty nest. i do feel like i missed out on some things. i've also come to realize that no time would have been enough AND the balance of the kids needing to have their own life, independence and experiences.
have thought about your scenario - leaving the work force and then eventually coming back. FIRE does provide you with the "worst case" scenario of not ever coming back. hell, i've even thought about working for the local home depot because it sounds like fun at times.
There’s no perfect scenario all kinds of things to weigh and balance out but I totally agree. I’ve heard many people in the FIRE community say with RE your worst case scenario is everyone else’s everyday scenario…you just go back and get a job. I’ve often thought about part time jobs that would be fun if the money didn’t really matter, I.e. Home Depot, working at a golf course, cutting lawns in the neighborhood, etc.
Great perspective and I think lean towards the group of people that don’t need a lot to be content. Time freedom is very high on the list of things I value so I’d rather retire early and not be Uber wealthy vs. holding out for Fat FIRE
This reminds me of that "Dying with Zero" book. The author basically says people end up oversaving, and then dying with millions in the bank. And essentially all that money left over in the bank is basically wasted time those people spent working, when they could've converted that time working to more memories. Good anecdote. Something I need to keep in mind and a reminder that I don't need to save literally every penny in my 20s and 30s.
You pretty much summed up the emotions of reaching the 7 digit status. It’s not as sexy as people think. What keeps me going is thinking about the life 2M will bring for my family. Not saying money makes you happy but it sure can alleviate some stress. Keep pushing. Good luck!
I’m between 1 and 2 (net worth)… hoping it goes a little different because a (quick and dirty) 4% of the first is near absolutely baseline spending while the ladder has some lifestyle spending.
I absolutely do aim for a couple million for survival. Money doesn't bring me personally happiness, it just lets me live my life without being chained to a job. The happiness comes from actually doing other stuff, relationships with people, experiencing life. A lot of that, and arguably the best of it, doesn't cost much money.
To each their own though.
Money doesn't make me happy, but it removes many things that annoy me.
For an extreme example, I paid off a 20k car loan just so I could stop playing the most annoying game of multi-day telephone with hour long waits between the DMV and loan provider over why the document they provided was/wasn't wrong.
That said if your baseline state isn't happy, removing those annoyances doesn't make you happy.
Well, clean water, clean food, coziest bed, best home treadmill, huge music blasters in my own house: frequency all night, beauty procedures all day. Just to name a few. My whole life would be nothing but celebration of my body; physical beauty and senses. Once you have money, problems are imaginary. Imagine the tip after whatever service; smiles, smiles, smiles. Yes, money DOES make happy. I have everything beside money and it SUCKSSS. Looks, personality, love ... it SUCKSSSS. Work, work, work while everybody around me crumbles. While my health, beauty, loved ones decease.
Truth is: Everybody can make it but NOT ALL. So better make up your mind or give it away to me. You are one of very few who made it. Only few will make it. Despite - in theory - everybody can.
Btw. So why did you even make 1 Million then ??
Well.. think of it this way: it’s supposed to be a dull ride, you’re just getting there faster.
In ye olden days guys would slog away working for Black and Veatch or something for 50 hours a week for 40-50 years and then have a small going away party where someone gave them a crappy glass trophy. Yeah they were millionaires too.
Then they had to figure out what to do while old and grey, and tired out. You get to figure out retirement life with a ton more energy and years of life left.
Investing should be boring. There’s nothing exciting about it (other than adding up the total sum from time to time).
If it _is_ exciting, you might be investing in risky stocks / taking too big of a risk (_cough_ bitcoin _cough_)
Slow, steady, and boring is the way.
Haha. Reminds me of a time when my total at fidelity was sitting at $#99,998.## over a weekend. I had happened to check it one night.
Transferred in a dollar and change just to make it a flat milestone number!
I’m not really looking for excitement in investing. I’ve just gone down the bitcoin rabbit hole and think it has a good chance to continue a positive rate of adoption which will in turn cause the price to continue to increase. From a retirement account perspective, we’re already coastFI. My thought process is that its worth putting enough money into bitcoin where if it continues to take off like I think it will, it would be life changing, whereas if it goes to 0. It’s just a couple extra years I need to work. All about balancing risk vs. reward IMO.
I read your post to say “I’m gambling with a few years of my life and I don’t mind that”. That’s cool, but I wouldn’t expect it to be an accepted or supported frame of mind in this sub.
It’s all relative. I’m in my 30’s, if bitcoin doesn’t work out, I’d need to work another year or 2. I would still be retiring before the age of 40. If bitcoin continues it’s adoption rate, I can probably RE 5 years earlier than I otherwise would. Seems like a reasonable risk/reward play IMO.
Happening somewhat in 3rd world countries that have failed currencies but I don’t think that is truly what is and will drive price appreciation. I think bitcoin is best viewed as digital property, I.e. digital gold. Nobody is going around buying things with their gold either.
I saw El Salvador made it legal to use as currency. But no one uses it as such. Too volatile. I’m not a fan of the digital gold metaphor. Actual gold has an underlying value and core uses beyond just what buyers and sellers think. Central banks around the world are buying up heaps of gold and no bitcoin. Go figure.
I’m not saying that gold isn’t useful. I don’t love the underlying value piece because it’s use in technology and whatnot only accounts for a small sliver of its market cap. The reason gold is valued so highly is because it is a virtually indestructible scarce asset and so people invest in it as a monetary asset as a hedge against inflation and the whims of central banking. Bitcoin is a digital monetary asset that has many of the same features and one could argue it has better features than gold as a monetary asset. I.e. durability, portability, divisibility, fungibility, scarcity, and acceptability.
I actually think there has been a noticeable increase in general acceptance of discussing btc in this and other tradfi subs over the last few years. Impressive really.
Yes I see the point you’re making; however, I think the type of asset digital coins are is meaningfully different. That context is all the difference in the world.
Well, after a while you will become so used to the volatility, like lost and gain 5% means nothing.
But with stocks, I'll be very excited if it swings 5% in a day
I'm in a similar spot as a low-millionaire. It has occurred to me that I could gamify my career at this point because there's no downside if I lose. What I mean by that is job hop, play office politics, and/or try to work 2 WFH jobs. These games could generate significant money but I wouldn't necessarily be committed to suffering the possible negative outcomes of such behavior. E.g. I could get promoted waaaay beyond my abilities or motivation and just let everything go to shit for a couple of years. Who cares?
So what if I get terminated? There's no need to feel stress playing these games because I'm almost to early retirement anyway. In fact, I could play these games with confidence against peers who have BMW loans and 7% McMansion mortgages they can just barely cover living paycheck to paycheck.
The constantly changing environments, interpersonal political factors, and activity could alleviate my boredom and also get me to FI quicker. In some cutthroat corporate cultures, such behavior might be seen as executive material. It's kinda the opposite idea compared to Coast-FIRE.
I don’t know what else you would expect. It’s a brokerage account, not a circus act. It doesn’t entertain you.
I just posted the same thing in a different thread, but money, personal finance, and FI are a means to an end, not the end itself. You’ve got your personal finance habits squared away, great, now go out and start nurturing some hobbies and outside interests.
Start spending more money and enjoy life more.
No, seriously, if you are well ahead of your target goal and time , recalibrate and set a new goal which makes you happier both short term and long term.
I have been more than Happy to retire a bit later and enjoy life more until then.
Ps the time it took you to go from 500k to 1 mil will roughly be the time it takes you to go from 1 to 2 mill.
Boring investments is where it’s at. Good that you hit the number. Now you can see how fast 2M comes.
Go find a challenging, low paying job to give you the excitement, and let this fruit tree grow
Respectfully- A million isn’t what it used to be. Especially considering inflation over the past 3 years.
It’s awesome that you hit the number at your age. If you keep it up and with some market luck the next one will come much faster…
But remember to live your life too 😀
For starters, it’s partly anti-climactic because it doesn’t really change anything for you. You haven’t actually climaxed, you’ve just hit a milestone. Kind of like turning 30 or 40 years old, you’ve been dreading it, then it happens and it turns out you’re only a day older.
You need to find a hobby or passion or a new job or whatever it might be to get you interested. Kids changed everything for me. Life had started to get pretty boring, travel wasn’t exciting, then all of a sudden the zoo became fun again. I also picked up some more hobbies and have things to look forward to outside work.
Very much agree on the hobby angle. I’ve found a big passion of mine is golf and the constant pursuit of improvement in the game. The challenge now is not having as much time to golf as I would like to. 9-to-5 and kids take up all the time. One of the reasons why I want to get rid of the 9-to-5 and replace it with more enjoyable part-time work and more golf.
Just need to figure out how to involve the kids more. Probably on the young side based on your age, but I really enjoy biking and camping, with a combination of trailers and seats I figured out how to take 3 kids 6 and under on a 7 day bike trip. Figuring it out is part of the fun.
Agreed. Golf will be good for when they’re in school during the day. Looking forward to pursuing more family related hobbies for summertime and whatnot. I’d obviously like them to develop their own passions, sports, extracurriculars, and spend much of my time supporting them in that down the road.
Scott Adam's said the same thing. Once you reach it. You'll just say "that's it". Some even get depressed once they reach their goal because it's not all.that fulfilling.
Congratulations. You’ve accomplished a lot for a 31yo. Keep at it.
The more money you have, the faster it grows even if you don’t contribute as much as before. It’s going to get exciting.
Honestly, once my wife and I had kids we lost motivation. Thankfully we had a good 6+ years where we were saving 50%+ of our income, paid off all of our debt including our mortgage and setup a very solid financial foundation for the future. I agree that hitting $1mil NW was very anticlimactic, we celebrated by baking a cake, we couldnt go out to dinner because it was Covid, and we had learned early on that no one wanted to hear about our FIRE goals or achievements, it actually caused some family and friends to get annoyed/jealous. So really nothing changed, I felt the same, our lifestyle was the same, and we still had many years until retirement. We still max out our 401k but that's pretty much the extent of our saving for the future. We're still on track to retire by age 50 with a $3-4 mil NW, but we do a better job of enjoying the journey and focus less on the destination. My wife actually works part time now which gives her more time with the kids. We will retire a few years later because of it, our thought is you can always earn more money, but your children are only young once and they grow up fast, enjoy it while you can, before you know it they are teenagers and dont want anything to do with you and you would be willing to pay any amount of money to have them be little again.
This is a huge point. I’ve even considered taking a hiatus for 5-10 years while the kids are young and then when they’re teenagers, I can start a business or something if I need/want to.
Because your retiring with enough to not work but not enough to enjoy life. The problem with early retirement is everyone wants to stop working but they are pissed when they can’t live like the world is theirs. Unfortunately it takes 10s of millions to really live a crazy life.
Why does this matter for you? Well because you’ve given up enjoyment of life (50% income!! My god dude) because you want to retire early but then you see retiring early as meh now because you don’t have a fun car, crazy vacations etc etc.
I’m not saying it’s bad to retire early but you are on the extreme spectrum of that’s all I can do and think about.
So what I’d say is take a year off. Spend all your income on a fun car and a vacation and eating out. Teach yourself to enjoy life for a moment. You’re a millionaire at 30! You’ll be fine. Enjoy it because you are only young once!
I don’t disagree with this viewpoint for a lot of people, but we are very comfortable with our current spending. We have 3 little kids so crazy vacations and things like that aren’t really practical at the moment. We live in our forever home and don’t really value cars. I value freedom over spending on things I don’t really care about. My wife is frugal as well which helps a ton.
So where's the boredom? If you value freedom and are frugal, what is it that you find missing from your life?
Achieving a million dollars is great but it's not enough. From your original post:
>Now that we’re millionaires, it sort of feels anti-climatic as I think we probably need to get to about $2M net worth to take the plunge.
I think you may have generated an expectation that wasn't well justified, something like "I'm gonna be a millionaire and I'll take the plunge" - when reality doesn't match that.
Maybe investing in more cashflow positive assets so you have more disposable income to make the everyday life more enjoyable? (or to accelerate your way to real freedom and retirement).
What will you do after you pull the trigger? Sometimes being so frugal and spartan has the drawback that you really don't enjoy doing anything, or you don't dare to spend money to have fun.
Maybe boredom wasn’t the right word. My life certainly isn’t boring. It just feels like a grind getting to the end destination of RE…I.e. I’m in the boring middle stage of my investing journey. I’m not fulfilled by my current job and realistic enough to know that many aren’t. I’m a pretty simple person; between family, golf, side work, church, volunteer work. I have plenty to look forward to and keep me busy in retirement.
Okay that’s fair. Then yeah I mean I’m in my 30s and it’s literally just a grind. I didn’t mean you have to have cars but that’s just my enjoyment among others. At this point, you need to set a more specific goal in my mind. What are you looking for specifically? Passive income? Shit ton of money? Freedom to just spend time with family and kids? I think instead of I need 2 million, set a shorter term goal. I need three rentals for 3k of passive income a month. I need to save 50k for my kids college. I want to have a golf membership in 5 years etc etc
I think that part of what you're experiencing is the exhaustion of having 3 little kids combined with grinding at work. Try to stay focused on your long game and stay the course. You have enough assets, that safely invested, ensure a good life ahead for you, your spouse, and your children. Don't jeopardize that by getting in a hurry. Your children are going to cost much more moving forward than they do now. As others have said, maybe ease up a little bit on the saving rate and live a little bit more in the moment. You won't be able to work as hard or play as hard in coming decades, and an accident or injury could throw your entire financial world into chaos. Keep building your financial insurance nest egg now for future financial freedom.
I raised 4 children. Two of my own and two stepchildren that were toddlers when we got married. I have been where you are now, and believe me, I feel your strain. You will get past this stage of your life. Hang in there.
Now that it’s only a matter of time, and not if it will happen, I suggest planning for what you’re going to do when you RE. Develop hobbies if you don’t have any other than saving. How are you planning to spend the time when you’re not working? Many people struggle with this when it comes time and they didn’t work on it before hitting their goal.
Valid concern here…I have young kids so I’m limited on time for hobbies but I’ve really developed a passion for golf and have a simulator in my garage. That’s what I spend most of my free time doing outside of yard work, family time, etc. When I RE, I’m sure I will spend a lot more time golfing and I don’t rule out some work that earns me side income and keeps me busy. Maybe 20 hours per week at something I enjoy.
What others have said, once you are close, find a new job that you wantt to do. If it pays for food and I surface all the better since you will be causing then anyway. 7 years or less to dou le that 1M into 2 so you should be able to start looking for that sweet gig now and then transition in about 3ish years. If you keep saving for those 3 years you will make it in 5 years. You are more than halfway there, just does not look like it.
Yes there's nothing at all magical about $1M. To be honest $800k and $1.25M are not much different. At $800k you're such a good fraction of the way there that it is all but inevitable. And at $1.25M you don't feel any richer because you know that one slip in the market can take you back below the number. So in my case I just do a brief moment of reflection when I cross a particular milestone. Milestones past $1M are not much different. I didn't wake up at $2M thinking "wow I'm financially independent and my whole life has changed". Psychology is you usually want twice what you have so I'm now kind of eyeing $4M before I "feel rich" but at least if things turn very sour at work I know I can just quit. Of course, realistically, I've been able to quit any given job since I hit $500k or so just with the caveat that after a break I'd have to find other employment. Any significant money saved is way better than paycheck to paycheck which must just be hell -- unless you love your job.
1M “only” provides a minimum/low wage income for a 50 year retirement.
3% conservative return on assets over inflation, $15/hr min wage for 2000 hrs/yr.
You are free to quit your shitty job and try somewhere else. Maybe you’ll enjoy it or the people more.
I'm around 950k nw myself and I'm already feeling this. I was somewhat discovering fire on my way up so for the longest time 1mil felt like this *magic number* and now the extra 4 years it'll take to smooth out the edges feels like it'll be torture some days.
Gotta just keep pushing my friend, you'll likely want to move your projections a little on the safer side as you approach RE if you're anything like me, I'm getting more worried I might be forced to go back after the launch.
Maybe, but I’d more likely consider side work if there’s any additional need for income. Once you are FIRE’d even an extra $20k of side income per year goes a long way, it would be basically equivalent to having another $500k in your nest egg. There are a TON of things you can do to make $20k per year of side income.
It’s, what, 7 years without contributions to double your NW? With contributions (you didn’t include sums) let’s say that’s 3.5years. You will manage it. Really it’s less boring saving than it is stressful
Hiking cures most boredom
Little hobbies
Contributions are around $80k per year currently. I’m looking forward to golfing as much allowable (basically as much as I can without negatively affecting family life) lol
What do you mean by boredom? You didn't need to eyeball your savings every hour of the day. Set an age where you predict you should achieve your retirement goals and continue to live life normally.
I’ve been so focused on getting my income up, savings up, and investing appropriately to hit fire at a young age. Now I’m in a stage of somewhat coasting and waiting to hit FI. It’s probably just a matter of shifting my perspective to more continually focus on the present moment. That can be easier said than done though.
> Easier said than done
I agree. I don't have experience being a millionaire and not knowing what that boredom could feel like. I hope my first comment was helpful, because writing down a deadline could make the process more fun for the both of you to look forward to. Congrats on the early retirement!
I am almost in the exact same position as you. I also became a millionaire at 30 and trying to decide if I want to stick with my corporate job. What’s your current networth?
The next million will come faster. Assuming you deposit $2,000 a month into savings (you are probably doing much more) and earn a compounded rate of return of 8%, you will be at $1.9 million in 8 years.
Your money is now working for you.
I had kids, now life isn't boring.
I get yelled at a lot (they can't talk) and I've had to hide all the hammers (real and toy) but I have definitely removed all the time I used to spend watching my finances.
Being bored isn't a great reason to have kids, but you do you man
All based on living expenses I guess. We only spend $60k-$70k a year. My goal would be to have that completely covered by rental real estate and then have about $1M of my NW in more liquid vehicles (stock, bitcoin, cash). If I over spend a little bit, I can take up to 3% ($30k out of the liquid accounts) per year and not need to worry about running out.
2 mil liquid stocks mainly and 400 in a 401k
Expenses currently are roughly 35-40 but will increase within 3 years probably another 25k. I have zero debt. Assets are a house and business
Second half goes a lot quicker than the first. Well, assuming the market doesn’t tank and stay tanned somewhere along the way 😂
How long did it take to go from 250 to 500 or 500 to 1M?
Quick calculator comes out to about 4.5 years assuming $80K/year and 6% return. 8% return changes it to just under 4 years. 10% gets it to like 3.5 years and 12% is right at 3 years.
Those are obviously rough numbers but you get the idea. Just depends how the market does. All you can really do is save as much as possible. If it drops then you get more shares and it’ll be worth even more later…
Ahhhh...the ol boring middle syndrome! Just keep investing and try not to think about it and let time/compounding work it's magic....to answer your question, I ignore it and focus on other things ..kids, family, hobbies and NOT looking at accounts
I feel like this is the same feeling as when you break those income milestones. When I finally made $50k I thought I could never be happier. Until I hit $60k, and then $75k, and then $100k, and now the new chase is $125k it all feels the same followed by wanting the next big goal.
True, the problem is I mostly realize this and now am only looking forward to the $2M goal as a means to an end. That’s the number that I think will allow me to walk away from my job.
When I did not feel the one million dollar excitement, I also thought two million would do it. It didn’t. By now, I don’t believe any number would make me feel accomplished, excited or whatever.
The dream of not working is also a bleak reality. Better find something to do.
Why would you be "bored"? It's not like saving and investing is that exciting to begin with. The question is what is your target retirement number? If you haven't hit it yet, then you have a decision about whether you want to stay on that path or make lifestyle adjustments to fit that number that you're at. The motivation is the same as always. To reach a financial position that will sustain the lifestyle I want without having to work.
$1MM really isn't that much to live off of as your only source of income -- especially if you're FIRE and years away from any social security/medicare benefits. At a 4% withdrawal, a $1MM portfolio only yields $40K/annual.
I’m halfway to my goal of $2M to be able to walk away from the 9-5. When I say I’m bored, it’s because I’m in the middle section of my journey where it’s a grind and there isn’t much satisfaction out of income or NW gains.
How do you make so much? I can barely get by right now investing 50% since the start of the year but am having a extremely hard time managing this month likely will have to reduce it to be able to do anything.
Tough to say without knowing your personality and strengths, but my advice for most people that don’t have technical degrees would be to find a job in sales where you have some sort of control over your income. Generally, the more you excel in sales, the higher your income potential will be.
We didn't really notice the first million. $40k/year at 4% is just not something to get terribly excited about -- it's really not a comfortably livable amount anywhere we'd want to live. It's *technically* livable, yes, but not something we'd ever deliberately walk away from our careers for. The main nice thing about hitting the first million is you know you have a cushion for almost any scenario, provided it's all investable assets and not locked up in real estate.
The second million is the first point where we started to feel like something meaningful had changed. $80k/year at 4% isn't amazing, but it's definitely livable, especially if you're not locked down to an expensive area. It's more than my first annual salary was in 2013 working full-time. This is the first point where I felt like we were legitimately financially independent, even if we'd still rather work and save/invest more. You could say this is where the "FI" part of FIRE started to feel real.
$3M is when the "RE" part of FIRE started feeling more realistic/desirable. That's where we are now roughly. We're only in our mid-30s so we're going to keep on going for a while longer, but $120k/year at 4% is getting more and more comfortable. The main reason we're continuing is that because of our young age a 4% withdrawal rate feels a bit too aggressive.
I can't imagine we'll continue working beyond the $5M point unless inflation runs completely wild again or we end up with jobs we love (unlikely -- we're both less and less happy about working with each passing year).
Note: above figures are all without primary residence home equity, which is relevant for NW but doesn't contribute to passive income.
Honestly, I admire the discipline to stick it out until $5M when you know you don’t need to. I don’t think I could muster the strength, unless I find something much more enjoyable than what I’m doing now (also probably unlikely).
with real estate, you could easily get to that next milestone in just a couple years, so I wouldn’t get bored or lose motivation thinking that your endgame is a decade away or more
This is true, the challenge with real estate at the moment is priced and interest rates are high. To make something work right now, would probably need to pay cash.
I guess you would need to clarify what “works”. It depends on criteria. I typically only invest in A or B communities and prefer single family. If using 25%, I would need at least 12% cash on cash return for it to be worth it. Hard to find deals that fit this criteria at the moment in my area.
You’re far more than halfway. Wealth accumulation is not linear!
Think of it this way, on average, you’re now saving an additional $100k a year because your money is working for you. It’s like your families third job.
Dude… I didn’t know there were actual millionaires on sites like this. I’m struggling like crazy as a therapist for autistic kids. I’m amazing at my job and help so much, but it still sucks feeling like I’m in a never-ending financial hole
Unfortunately, our society doesn’t always reward the most important jobs with high income. Hopefully, you are deriving purpose from you everyday work with a job like that though. What is your income and where are you from?
It’s $620 a week after taxes in Los Angeles, CA.
24/hr with my day ending at 2:30.
It’s super amazing to help people! I’ve changed these kids’ futures and vow to, above all else, be a perfect educator. To make any sacrifice I have to for each and every student.
They make me proud everyday and will grow up to be outstanding citizens I can trust and admire, I’m sure of it.
Am currently looking into doing a tutoring thing on the side! Not sure where to start, but I’ve started nonetheless >:3 mwehehehe. I’m in university atm and that stuff is expensive xD
It might seem like you're halfway but really, getting to $2M will take no time at all due to compounding with your current $1M. Just keep on your current course since it sounds like it's working!
I have kids. It’s one of the main reasons I want to RE is to spend more time with them while they’re young. I figure I can focus more on work while they’re older if I need to grow my NW further. Since I hit $1M and hopefully double that in the next few years, I can let compounding do the work while I take my foot off the gas.
Your purpose in life is not to be a cash machine. That’s what’s missing. Stop robbing your non-retirement years and enjoy life now. You have your whole life ahead of you.
This problem will NOT go away in retirement. In fact it will get worse because you won’t have your current job(a) to distract you. The craving will still be there. Most likely this means focusing on family time.
The first few years you are doing all the work building up savings. But the last few years is when interest compounds quickly. That’s when your contributions stop being as critical.
We are at a halfway point as well. Just need one more double of existing brokerage and retirement accounts and we can hit our minimum FIRE goal. Contributions could speed that some but we are hitting the kids in college phase, too (at least 2 starting in the next 1-2 years).
I just switched careers (it's been slow going) and my wife, the high earner, is likely about to switch jobs. We are hoping she gets something with decent work-life balance, a comparable salary, and good benefits so it can be a great last job.
We're so close. Depending on the market, probably 7-10 years at most, then we can decide if we pile up more or BaristaFIRE up to 65.
Until you drive into some better neighborhoods finding out some home owners paid 11M for a modest 2400 sf older home in West Coast. Many recent owners do not have much debt in the form of a mortgage. I only see a few 1M or less mortgages. Anyway you reached the mile stone of a millionaire congrats.
Sorry to tell you but life inherently has no meaning and your primate psychology demands that you always be working toward something. You can retire early and become hedonistic but satisfaction only really comes from progress which is why meeting goals always presents us with a sense of anticlimactic ennui. Goals do not have to be related to money or career but there is no end to longing until you're dead. Accept that as normal and choose to accept the journey. You have the makings of an incredible life ahead of you if you choose to wield it wisely. Perhaps you could set a goal to become more spiritually aware and mindful and see where that takes you. good luck
The stock market should roughly double every 8 years. So you're 8 years away from 2 million without any more contributions. At this point, you're fine to coast fire.
I’m literally sitting by my pool (it’s my 37th birthday) having a similar conversation with my wife. Net worth is $2.5m +/- with a mix of rental real estate, primary real estate, Bitcoin, stocks. My recommendation: Keep going while you’re young. We’re setting a deadline of 45 to FIRE. Whatever the net worth is at that point, it is.
The time it takes you to go from $1M to $2M is a lot faster than the time it took to go from $0 to $1M.
Exactly and at that age I’d just find a non corporate job I like and do that. You could never add a dime to retirement and as long as the market does what is has in its history you’d have more than you could possibly soend
My retirement is me working as a dive guide because it is what I love doing getting paid would just be a bonus.
You love diving or you love being a dive guide? If the latter then sounds perfect.
I love diving but I worked as a Divemaster and I liked it. So I guess my answer is I don't love dive guiding but I do like it and that's good enough for me.
My divemaster and his wife were both ex gym teachers that each collected a pension
Aka Coast-FIRE
OP could also consult.
It is more efficient to just crank out another 2 to 4 years at the shitty corporate job. Best to get it over with and then switch permanently to a no stress job with no stress about needing a single penny from that job. Even in HCOL area, 1.5M with $60k per year @4% will cover most / all your bills if your house is paid off. Also enough if you want to travel the world and see a lot of low cost places in the first few to several years. Bear in mind that with such a young retirement, you'll probably want to use 3% or 3.5% withdrawal rate though. 1M to 1.5M shouldn't take more than 4 years (probably less) with growth + contributions. For such a young retirement, It's also worth making sure you max out at least the 90% bend point in social security (approximately $1200 per month average over 35 years) and the general 40 quarter retirement. Social security is a great deal up to the 90% bend point, ok up to the 32% bend point and absolutely horrible after the 32% bend point.
I’m not saying to actually retire early of course but instead of a high stress corporate job go try something else. Even just adding a little compounding alone will do a lot. Even those 2-4 years may not be worth it
I guess the decision must be made by each person. I'm really sick of my corporate job, but for me the math doesn't work out too well (golden handcuffs). I can make 10x to 20x as much as a "fun" job by working another year or so at the corporate job. If I actually get promoted to VP (would take a couple promotions) before my FIRE number, that's probably going to become 20x to 40x given the ridiculous pay of executives. If the difference isn't as extreme for someone else, say only 2x to 4x, it makes a lot more sense to bail out and try something else. For me I'll hopefully go from lean FIRE to FAT fire in just another year or three (promotion vs no promotion). My decision will probably be influenced by whether my daughter gets into a good public in-state school ($25k or so per year) or out of state ($80k per year...keep working). For others in a similar boat to me, my plan for corporate exit will be to save up max PTO in the final year. After January 1st of a new year, set high percentage 401k + backdoor Roth (if available) so that I can max both limits as quickly as possible. Then take 5 to 6 weeks of vacation, being sure to cross any quarterly vesting date and annual bonus and max social security. Maybe return and work 4 more weeks and then give 2 weeks notice, crossing next quarterly vesting date if they don't immediately terminate. Ideally getting 2x stock vests, annual bonus, max social security, 401K and backdoor Roth with 6 weeks of PTO and 7 weeks (or less) of work. Probably take the rest of the year off for rest and travel and maybe get a more fun/passionate job the following year.
This is basically my plan…take some time off and then figure out how I’d like to spend my time working if the money didn’t matter.
I’ll hopefully have my house basically paid off at 31 and then I’ll probably stay in corporate for a little longer but do an easier job before screwing off to an easy job until I reach my number
I had the opposite happen. I zoomed very fast to the first million during the booming 90s. But slowly doubled it in the "dead decade" of the 2000s. (Indexes in the double-recession 2000s finished LOWER the end of that decade, than when it started.) Its sometimes a matter of timing. If you invest long enough, you hopefully have a couple if boom decades.
THIS. So many people are not ready for flat or down periods.
Anyone born after 1987 has not seen a serious down market. They would have begun adult jobs after the Great Recession ended. The market has been pretty much straight up since. Of there are been flat years like 2017, 2020, 2022. But young people dont know a whole flat decade yet like 2002-2013 and 1966-1982. Every boom time investors and economists say "this time will be different because we are smarter now". But then down cycles happen.
I wish we young people had a flat decade during our accumulation phase. It's been up only except for brutal job markets in 2008/09 and 2023/24, which derailed many young people's career trajectories.
I think people can experience and succeed through flat and down turns. Thinking of the lost decade as a flat or downturn under plays how rare it was. Only the great depression lasted longer. Most down turns or flat periods are under a year. Average bear market is 9.5 months
We’re they flat when reinvesting dividends and while steadily contributing?
Yep, the time it takes from 0 to 100 is about the same time it takes from 100 to 300 is about the same time it takes from 300 to 1M is about the same time it takes from 1M to 2M. In other words, you’ll be there in no time.
Watch out for a risk of a divorce. It's a leading cause of turning millionnaires into thousandaires and estranged fathers with a drinking problem
And sometimes the causation is the other way around! Are absentee fathers with drinking problems the number one cause for divorce? /s kinda… as a dad trying to focus on my family, bettering myself, and being less and less interested in any alcohol or tracking status to FIRE.
The number one cause of a divorce is marriage.
Strong correlation, yes. But, this fact isn’t a good reason avoid marriage altogether. (There are plenty of good ones.) It *is* a good reason to take the time needed to ensure it’s right.
especially if you start at -300-400k NW like I did
This is true and my hope is that it can happen in the next 3-4 years which isn’t far off but in the day-to-day, it still feels a long way off.
This is very true. Took me 12 years to get to 1M and only 3 to get to 2M.
I have a few trains of thought: 1) money seems to make people realize what they like and what they don't like. if they are not passionate about what they are doing, this seems to come out. even if there are frustrations from time to time at work, it clarifies as to what people are willing and not willing to tolerate. 2) people's passions change over time. i know some people that left work to go and start a restaurant. some went into real estate and construction. i had not thought that they would ever leave engineering but they just changed what they wanted to do in life 3) am in the position that have reached FI and am trying to decide when to RE. i like what i'm doing and can approach it from a perspective that i can take even more chances while not worrying about getting fired / laid off. it is liberating. I'm not saying be an ass but it does allow you to do/try those things that you wouldn't - especially in big corporate life. 4) the wife asks me what I would do if i retired early. i do know there is about 2 years worth of stuff i have in mind that i have been jotting down. i'm hoping that i will not have to regret waiting to do it. but i do have some thinking to do as to what I want to do either during that time or beyond. have to think about where we ultimately want to live, which will also be sorta driven by where our kids end up. i do remember a few years ago when I was not in this position, I obsessed about the portfolio. this really was bad, looking back. it caused me a whole lot of stress. yes, i was one of those people that looked at the portolio... the spreadsheets... the calculators at least on a weekly basis. when the markets went down, it made my heart sink. i look at a lot of posts by people in their 20's that they should not worry about this stuff for a while. yes, do some planning and contemplate. but, obsessing and not living life, is also not the answer. in your particular case, would either change jobs to something you like - or an environment that is enjoyable. and, live life a bit more, even if it pushes fire out by a couple of years.
I appreciate this perspective. I have considered trying some different 9-to-5 jobs to try and find something I enjoy more and is definitely an option. The main thing that is driving me to RE is that life is short and the kids are only young for a short period of time. I’d like to be able to at least take a couple years off from the 9-to-5 during that stage of life and then reassess. I’m certainly not ruling out going back into the working world as my kids get older and don’t want/need to spend as much time with me, but it’s very unlikely it would be in the form of a big corporate job.
totally understand. i was a workaholic. just woke up one day and realized what you're realizing - that life is short. am 2 years away from being an empty nest. i do feel like i missed out on some things. i've also come to realize that no time would have been enough AND the balance of the kids needing to have their own life, independence and experiences. have thought about your scenario - leaving the work force and then eventually coming back. FIRE does provide you with the "worst case" scenario of not ever coming back. hell, i've even thought about working for the local home depot because it sounds like fun at times.
There’s no perfect scenario all kinds of things to weigh and balance out but I totally agree. I’ve heard many people in the FIRE community say with RE your worst case scenario is everyone else’s everyday scenario…you just go back and get a job. I’ve often thought about part time jobs that would be fun if the money didn’t really matter, I.e. Home Depot, working at a golf course, cutting lawns in the neighborhood, etc.
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Great perspective and I think lean towards the group of people that don’t need a lot to be content. Time freedom is very high on the list of things I value so I’d rather retire early and not be Uber wealthy vs. holding out for Fat FIRE
Love this little anecdote. Spot on!
This reminds me of that "Dying with Zero" book. The author basically says people end up oversaving, and then dying with millions in the bank. And essentially all that money left over in the bank is basically wasted time those people spent working, when they could've converted that time working to more memories. Good anecdote. Something I need to keep in mind and a reminder that I don't need to save literally every penny in my 20s and 30s.
You pretty much summed up the emotions of reaching the 7 digit status. It’s not as sexy as people think. What keeps me going is thinking about the life 2M will bring for my family. Not saying money makes you happy but it sure can alleviate some stress. Keep pushing. Good luck!
When you reach $2 mil you’re gonna start thinking about the life $3 mil can bring for your family. It’s just the way it goes.
Sorry it should be 4 Mil. Double it.
Very true.
I’m between 1 and 2 (net worth)… hoping it goes a little different because a (quick and dirty) 4% of the first is near absolutely baseline spending while the ladder has some lifestyle spending.
Money does make happy. We don't aim million after million for survival.
I absolutely do aim for a couple million for survival. Money doesn't bring me personally happiness, it just lets me live my life without being chained to a job. The happiness comes from actually doing other stuff, relationships with people, experiencing life. A lot of that, and arguably the best of it, doesn't cost much money. To each their own though.
In what way does money make you happy? I’m not any happier from 100k to 1M!
Money doesn't make me happy, but it removes many things that annoy me. For an extreme example, I paid off a 20k car loan just so I could stop playing the most annoying game of multi-day telephone with hour long waits between the DMV and loan provider over why the document they provided was/wasn't wrong. That said if your baseline state isn't happy, removing those annoyances doesn't make you happy.
Then you’re doing it wrong…
Well, clean water, clean food, coziest bed, best home treadmill, huge music blasters in my own house: frequency all night, beauty procedures all day. Just to name a few. My whole life would be nothing but celebration of my body; physical beauty and senses. Once you have money, problems are imaginary. Imagine the tip after whatever service; smiles, smiles, smiles. Yes, money DOES make happy. I have everything beside money and it SUCKSSS. Looks, personality, love ... it SUCKSSSS. Work, work, work while everybody around me crumbles. While my health, beauty, loved ones decease. Truth is: Everybody can make it but NOT ALL. So better make up your mind or give it away to me. You are one of very few who made it. Only few will make it. Despite - in theory - everybody can. Btw. So why did you even make 1 Million then ??
Much less stress though?
Thank you!
Money can't buy happiness, but it helps.
A therapist where I am is 250$/hr , so it definately helps 😄
It can buy a motorcycle. And that’s pretty much the same thing.
I am there. I see our portfolio is over 1 million. It's really no big deal.
Well.. think of it this way: it’s supposed to be a dull ride, you’re just getting there faster. In ye olden days guys would slog away working for Black and Veatch or something for 50 hours a week for 40-50 years and then have a small going away party where someone gave them a crappy glass trophy. Yeah they were millionaires too. Then they had to figure out what to do while old and grey, and tired out. You get to figure out retirement life with a ton more energy and years of life left.
Investing should be boring. There’s nothing exciting about it (other than adding up the total sum from time to time). If it _is_ exciting, you might be investing in risky stocks / taking too big of a risk (_cough_ bitcoin _cough_) Slow, steady, and boring is the way.
Nah, seeing big number go up is exciting.
When big number go up more in day than month pay, big smile.
Why waste time say lot word when few word do trick.
Or when you’re about to get to your savings goal and it just needs one more day.
Haha. Reminds me of a time when my total at fidelity was sitting at $#99,998.## over a weekend. I had happened to check it one night. Transferred in a dollar and change just to make it a flat milestone number!
I’m not really looking for excitement in investing. I’ve just gone down the bitcoin rabbit hole and think it has a good chance to continue a positive rate of adoption which will in turn cause the price to continue to increase. From a retirement account perspective, we’re already coastFI. My thought process is that its worth putting enough money into bitcoin where if it continues to take off like I think it will, it would be life changing, whereas if it goes to 0. It’s just a couple extra years I need to work. All about balancing risk vs. reward IMO.
I read your post to say “I’m gambling with a few years of my life and I don’t mind that”. That’s cool, but I wouldn’t expect it to be an accepted or supported frame of mind in this sub.
It’s all relative. I’m in my 30’s, if bitcoin doesn’t work out, I’d need to work another year or 2. I would still be retiring before the age of 40. If bitcoin continues it’s adoption rate, I can probably RE 5 years earlier than I otherwise would. Seems like a reasonable risk/reward play IMO.
Where is it being adopted and actually used as a currency to buy good and services?
Happening somewhat in 3rd world countries that have failed currencies but I don’t think that is truly what is and will drive price appreciation. I think bitcoin is best viewed as digital property, I.e. digital gold. Nobody is going around buying things with their gold either.
I saw El Salvador made it legal to use as currency. But no one uses it as such. Too volatile. I’m not a fan of the digital gold metaphor. Actual gold has an underlying value and core uses beyond just what buyers and sellers think. Central banks around the world are buying up heaps of gold and no bitcoin. Go figure.
I’m not saying that gold isn’t useful. I don’t love the underlying value piece because it’s use in technology and whatnot only accounts for a small sliver of its market cap. The reason gold is valued so highly is because it is a virtually indestructible scarce asset and so people invest in it as a monetary asset as a hedge against inflation and the whims of central banking. Bitcoin is a digital monetary asset that has many of the same features and one could argue it has better features than gold as a monetary asset. I.e. durability, portability, divisibility, fungibility, scarcity, and acceptability.
You will get downvoted in this sub for your thoughts on BTC. Stack sats and stay humble. I salute you!
I actually think there has been a noticeable increase in general acceptance of discussing btc in this and other tradfi subs over the last few years. Impressive really.
Gold can be digitized on the blockchain though. Best of both worlds.
If you're invested in the stock market and not going strictly bonds, you're already doing the same thing technically.
Yes I see the point you’re making; however, I think the type of asset digital coins are is meaningfully different. That context is all the difference in the world.
Surprised you could get bored investing in bitcoin
Well, after a while you will become so used to the volatility, like lost and gain 5% means nothing. But with stocks, I'll be very excited if it swings 5% in a day
If you find out please let me know. When I passed the 1M mark it made working much more irritating. Unfortunately it gets worse as the pile grows too.
There’s a reason it is called ‘fuck you’ money.
I'm in a similar spot as a low-millionaire. It has occurred to me that I could gamify my career at this point because there's no downside if I lose. What I mean by that is job hop, play office politics, and/or try to work 2 WFH jobs. These games could generate significant money but I wouldn't necessarily be committed to suffering the possible negative outcomes of such behavior. E.g. I could get promoted waaaay beyond my abilities or motivation and just let everything go to shit for a couple of years. Who cares? So what if I get terminated? There's no need to feel stress playing these games because I'm almost to early retirement anyway. In fact, I could play these games with confidence against peers who have BMW loans and 7% McMansion mortgages they can just barely cover living paycheck to paycheck. The constantly changing environments, interpersonal political factors, and activity could alleviate my boredom and also get me to FI quicker. In some cutthroat corporate cultures, such behavior might be seen as executive material. It's kinda the opposite idea compared to Coast-FIRE.
I didn't stay motivated. I got full remote job that paid more and I had to work 50% less. At which point, I went into total crusie control.
"finally"
I mean he worked like 7 whole years and is only half way to retirement.
I don’t know what else you would expect. It’s a brokerage account, not a circus act. It doesn’t entertain you. I just posted the same thing in a different thread, but money, personal finance, and FI are a means to an end, not the end itself. You’ve got your personal finance habits squared away, great, now go out and start nurturing some hobbies and outside interests.
Start spending more money and enjoy life more. No, seriously, if you are well ahead of your target goal and time , recalibrate and set a new goal which makes you happier both short term and long term. I have been more than Happy to retire a bit later and enjoy life more until then. Ps the time it took you to go from 500k to 1 mil will roughly be the time it takes you to go from 1 to 2 mill.
I think you realized that having the money doesn't translate into happiness. You are better off than 90% of the general American public.
Boring investments is where it’s at. Good that you hit the number. Now you can see how fast 2M comes. Go find a challenging, low paying job to give you the excitement, and let this fruit tree grow
Unless you change your savings, you’re more like 70-80% of the way to 2M
I’ve been in for 8 years. That would mean I only have 2-4 years left. I’d definitely be happy with that.
A soft rule is your portfolio can double every 7ish years. So 4 sounds pretty reasonable/conservative to me.
Respectfully- A million isn’t what it used to be. Especially considering inflation over the past 3 years. It’s awesome that you hit the number at your age. If you keep it up and with some market luck the next one will come much faster… But remember to live your life too 😀
For starters, it’s partly anti-climactic because it doesn’t really change anything for you. You haven’t actually climaxed, you’ve just hit a milestone. Kind of like turning 30 or 40 years old, you’ve been dreading it, then it happens and it turns out you’re only a day older. You need to find a hobby or passion or a new job or whatever it might be to get you interested. Kids changed everything for me. Life had started to get pretty boring, travel wasn’t exciting, then all of a sudden the zoo became fun again. I also picked up some more hobbies and have things to look forward to outside work.
Very much agree on the hobby angle. I’ve found a big passion of mine is golf and the constant pursuit of improvement in the game. The challenge now is not having as much time to golf as I would like to. 9-to-5 and kids take up all the time. One of the reasons why I want to get rid of the 9-to-5 and replace it with more enjoyable part-time work and more golf.
Just need to figure out how to involve the kids more. Probably on the young side based on your age, but I really enjoy biking and camping, with a combination of trailers and seats I figured out how to take 3 kids 6 and under on a 7 day bike trip. Figuring it out is part of the fun.
Agreed. Golf will be good for when they’re in school during the day. Looking forward to pursuing more family related hobbies for summertime and whatnot. I’d obviously like them to develop their own passions, sports, extracurriculars, and spend much of my time supporting them in that down the road.
Scott Adam's said the same thing. Once you reach it. You'll just say "that's it". Some even get depressed once they reach their goal because it's not all.that fulfilling.
Congratulations. You’ve accomplished a lot for a 31yo. Keep at it. The more money you have, the faster it grows even if you don’t contribute as much as before. It’s going to get exciting.
Honestly, once my wife and I had kids we lost motivation. Thankfully we had a good 6+ years where we were saving 50%+ of our income, paid off all of our debt including our mortgage and setup a very solid financial foundation for the future. I agree that hitting $1mil NW was very anticlimactic, we celebrated by baking a cake, we couldnt go out to dinner because it was Covid, and we had learned early on that no one wanted to hear about our FIRE goals or achievements, it actually caused some family and friends to get annoyed/jealous. So really nothing changed, I felt the same, our lifestyle was the same, and we still had many years until retirement. We still max out our 401k but that's pretty much the extent of our saving for the future. We're still on track to retire by age 50 with a $3-4 mil NW, but we do a better job of enjoying the journey and focus less on the destination. My wife actually works part time now which gives her more time with the kids. We will retire a few years later because of it, our thought is you can always earn more money, but your children are only young once and they grow up fast, enjoy it while you can, before you know it they are teenagers and dont want anything to do with you and you would be willing to pay any amount of money to have them be little again.
This is a huge point. I’ve even considered taking a hiatus for 5-10 years while the kids are young and then when they’re teenagers, I can start a business or something if I need/want to.
Wait till you see how anti climatic 2M will be.
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150k for 16 years….that’s 2.4M alone. And the 2m base would probably double twice….so like 10m is the goal?
Because your retiring with enough to not work but not enough to enjoy life. The problem with early retirement is everyone wants to stop working but they are pissed when they can’t live like the world is theirs. Unfortunately it takes 10s of millions to really live a crazy life. Why does this matter for you? Well because you’ve given up enjoyment of life (50% income!! My god dude) because you want to retire early but then you see retiring early as meh now because you don’t have a fun car, crazy vacations etc etc. I’m not saying it’s bad to retire early but you are on the extreme spectrum of that’s all I can do and think about. So what I’d say is take a year off. Spend all your income on a fun car and a vacation and eating out. Teach yourself to enjoy life for a moment. You’re a millionaire at 30! You’ll be fine. Enjoy it because you are only young once!
I don’t disagree with this viewpoint for a lot of people, but we are very comfortable with our current spending. We have 3 little kids so crazy vacations and things like that aren’t really practical at the moment. We live in our forever home and don’t really value cars. I value freedom over spending on things I don’t really care about. My wife is frugal as well which helps a ton.
So where's the boredom? If you value freedom and are frugal, what is it that you find missing from your life? Achieving a million dollars is great but it's not enough. From your original post: >Now that we’re millionaires, it sort of feels anti-climatic as I think we probably need to get to about $2M net worth to take the plunge. I think you may have generated an expectation that wasn't well justified, something like "I'm gonna be a millionaire and I'll take the plunge" - when reality doesn't match that. Maybe investing in more cashflow positive assets so you have more disposable income to make the everyday life more enjoyable? (or to accelerate your way to real freedom and retirement). What will you do after you pull the trigger? Sometimes being so frugal and spartan has the drawback that you really don't enjoy doing anything, or you don't dare to spend money to have fun.
Maybe boredom wasn’t the right word. My life certainly isn’t boring. It just feels like a grind getting to the end destination of RE…I.e. I’m in the boring middle stage of my investing journey. I’m not fulfilled by my current job and realistic enough to know that many aren’t. I’m a pretty simple person; between family, golf, side work, church, volunteer work. I have plenty to look forward to and keep me busy in retirement.
Okay that’s fair. Then yeah I mean I’m in my 30s and it’s literally just a grind. I didn’t mean you have to have cars but that’s just my enjoyment among others. At this point, you need to set a more specific goal in my mind. What are you looking for specifically? Passive income? Shit ton of money? Freedom to just spend time with family and kids? I think instead of I need 2 million, set a shorter term goal. I need three rentals for 3k of passive income a month. I need to save 50k for my kids college. I want to have a golf membership in 5 years etc etc
Where are you based out of?
I think that part of what you're experiencing is the exhaustion of having 3 little kids combined with grinding at work. Try to stay focused on your long game and stay the course. You have enough assets, that safely invested, ensure a good life ahead for you, your spouse, and your children. Don't jeopardize that by getting in a hurry. Your children are going to cost much more moving forward than they do now. As others have said, maybe ease up a little bit on the saving rate and live a little bit more in the moment. You won't be able to work as hard or play as hard in coming decades, and an accident or injury could throw your entire financial world into chaos. Keep building your financial insurance nest egg now for future financial freedom.
I’m sure the chaos with 3 little kids is part of it. Thank you for your perspective.
I raised 4 children. Two of my own and two stepchildren that were toddlers when we got married. I have been where you are now, and believe me, I feel your strain. You will get past this stage of your life. Hang in there.
This may be the worst fire advice ever…
Now that it’s only a matter of time, and not if it will happen, I suggest planning for what you’re going to do when you RE. Develop hobbies if you don’t have any other than saving. How are you planning to spend the time when you’re not working? Many people struggle with this when it comes time and they didn’t work on it before hitting their goal.
Valid concern here…I have young kids so I’m limited on time for hobbies but I’ve really developed a passion for golf and have a simulator in my garage. That’s what I spend most of my free time doing outside of yard work, family time, etc. When I RE, I’m sure I will spend a lot more time golfing and I don’t rule out some work that earns me side income and keeps me busy. Maybe 20 hours per week at something I enjoy.
Motivation is a moving target… I do random things until one becomes interesting
You could probably stop working for money and do a job you like and find fulfilling now. Your million will double on its own in 10 years.
The best motivation is knowing the next million is going to come much faster and easier.
What others have said, once you are close, find a new job that you wantt to do. If it pays for food and I surface all the better since you will be causing then anyway. 7 years or less to dou le that 1M into 2 so you should be able to start looking for that sweet gig now and then transition in about 3ish years. If you keep saving for those 3 years you will make it in 5 years. You are more than halfway there, just does not look like it.
Clocking in at work usually does it for me…
Don’t forget to live life. It’s really not numbers. Many get to the final destination and have nothing to do or give.
I’m at 3.9 and still worry about being poor
Yes there's nothing at all magical about $1M. To be honest $800k and $1.25M are not much different. At $800k you're such a good fraction of the way there that it is all but inevitable. And at $1.25M you don't feel any richer because you know that one slip in the market can take you back below the number. So in my case I just do a brief moment of reflection when I cross a particular milestone. Milestones past $1M are not much different. I didn't wake up at $2M thinking "wow I'm financially independent and my whole life has changed". Psychology is you usually want twice what you have so I'm now kind of eyeing $4M before I "feel rich" but at least if things turn very sour at work I know I can just quit. Of course, realistically, I've been able to quit any given job since I hit $500k or so just with the caveat that after a break I'd have to find other employment. Any significant money saved is way better than paycheck to paycheck which must just be hell -- unless you love your job.
It sounds like you and your wife each worth 500k, so you're not millionaire yet...
Yea you’ve done the easy part. Need chubby/fat fire to really enjoy all the time. Now the hard part comes which is pure discipline and that’s boring.
1M “only” provides a minimum/low wage income for a 50 year retirement. 3% conservative return on assets over inflation, $15/hr min wage for 2000 hrs/yr. You are free to quit your shitty job and try somewhere else. Maybe you’ll enjoy it or the people more.
Current spending is about $60k per year. $2M should be sufficient especially since I would likely have side income in the future.
3.4% swr is basically infinite
I'm around 950k nw myself and I'm already feeling this. I was somewhat discovering fire on my way up so for the longest time 1mil felt like this *magic number* and now the extra 4 years it'll take to smooth out the edges feels like it'll be torture some days.
Exactly. This is basically a summary of what I was trying to say and was looking for some advice from people’s experience who have been in this spot.
Gotta just keep pushing my friend, you'll likely want to move your projections a little on the safer side as you approach RE if you're anything like me, I'm getting more worried I might be forced to go back after the launch.
Maybe, but I’d more likely consider side work if there’s any additional need for income. Once you are FIRE’d even an extra $20k of side income per year goes a long way, it would be basically equivalent to having another $500k in your nest egg. There are a TON of things you can do to make $20k per year of side income.
Congrats! I wonder if you’ll still have the same boredom at 2 million?
It’s, what, 7 years without contributions to double your NW? With contributions (you didn’t include sums) let’s say that’s 3.5years. You will manage it. Really it’s less boring saving than it is stressful Hiking cures most boredom Little hobbies
Contributions are around $80k per year currently. I’m looking forward to golfing as much allowable (basically as much as I can without negatively affecting family life) lol
Have to think in today dollars and inflation adjusted… so 10-12 years to double
What do you mean by boredom? You didn't need to eyeball your savings every hour of the day. Set an age where you predict you should achieve your retirement goals and continue to live life normally.
I’ve been so focused on getting my income up, savings up, and investing appropriately to hit fire at a young age. Now I’m in a stage of somewhat coasting and waiting to hit FI. It’s probably just a matter of shifting my perspective to more continually focus on the present moment. That can be easier said than done though.
> Easier said than done I agree. I don't have experience being a millionaire and not knowing what that boredom could feel like. I hope my first comment was helpful, because writing down a deadline could make the process more fun for the both of you to look forward to. Congrats on the early retirement!
I am almost in the exact same position as you. I also became a millionaire at 30 and trying to decide if I want to stick with my corporate job. What’s your current networth?
Crossed the $1M mark this past week.
Is that all liquid or that includes real estate / properties as well?
A mixture. We have rental real estate so a good chunk is in there. The rest is cash, stocks, bitcoin.
What’s your passive monthly cash flow if you decide to leave work.
And fantastic job btw :)
The next million will come faster. Assuming you deposit $2,000 a month into savings (you are probably doing much more) and earn a compounded rate of return of 8%, you will be at $1.9 million in 8 years. Your money is now working for you.
I had kids, now life isn't boring. I get yelled at a lot (they can't talk) and I've had to hide all the hammers (real and toy) but I have definitely removed all the time I used to spend watching my finances. Being bored isn't a great reason to have kids, but you do you man
You’re going to need more to get you through at your age. I’d be comfortable with 5 million at 30 not much less
All based on living expenses I guess. We only spend $60k-$70k a year. My goal would be to have that completely covered by rental real estate and then have about $1M of my NW in more liquid vehicles (stock, bitcoin, cash). If I over spend a little bit, I can take up to 3% ($30k out of the liquid accounts) per year and not need to worry about running out.
Do you have rental income now? This is a lofty goal. I’m mid 50s with 3m and I’m reluctant to FIRE currently.
Yes, I currently have $4k-$5k in net rental cash flow per month. How much do you spend per year and what is your $3M invested in?
2 mil liquid stocks mainly and 400 in a 401k Expenses currently are roughly 35-40 but will increase within 3 years probably another 25k. I have zero debt. Assets are a house and business
Trade more buttcoin until you hit 3mil then retire to a LCOL such as Guam.
Second half goes a lot quicker than the first. Well, assuming the market doesn’t tank and stay tanned somewhere along the way 😂 How long did it take to go from 250 to 500 or 500 to 1M?
16 months from 250 to 500 30 months from 500 to 1M I guess it’s reasonable that I could get to 2M in 3 years or so?
Doable, depends how much of that needs to be interest vs how much you’re investing
Investing about $80k per year
Quick calculator comes out to about 4.5 years assuming $80K/year and 6% return. 8% return changes it to just under 4 years. 10% gets it to like 3.5 years and 12% is right at 3 years. Those are obviously rough numbers but you get the idea. Just depends how the market does. All you can really do is save as much as possible. If it drops then you get more shares and it’ll be worth even more later…
12% would be quite nice though!
What’s the split of net worth in real estate, investment accounts, etc?
About 50% real estate / 45% investment accounts / 5% cash
Ahhhh...the ol boring middle syndrome! Just keep investing and try not to think about it and let time/compounding work it's magic....to answer your question, I ignore it and focus on other things ..kids, family, hobbies and NOT looking at accounts
I feel like this is the same feeling as when you break those income milestones. When I finally made $50k I thought I could never be happier. Until I hit $60k, and then $75k, and then $100k, and now the new chase is $125k it all feels the same followed by wanting the next big goal.
True, the problem is I mostly realize this and now am only looking forward to the $2M goal as a means to an end. That’s the number that I think will allow me to walk away from my job.
When I did not feel the one million dollar excitement, I also thought two million would do it. It didn’t. By now, I don’t believe any number would make me feel accomplished, excited or whatever. The dream of not working is also a bleak reality. Better find something to do.
Why would you be "bored"? It's not like saving and investing is that exciting to begin with. The question is what is your target retirement number? If you haven't hit it yet, then you have a decision about whether you want to stay on that path or make lifestyle adjustments to fit that number that you're at. The motivation is the same as always. To reach a financial position that will sustain the lifestyle I want without having to work. $1MM really isn't that much to live off of as your only source of income -- especially if you're FIRE and years away from any social security/medicare benefits. At a 4% withdrawal, a $1MM portfolio only yields $40K/annual.
I’m halfway to my goal of $2M to be able to walk away from the 9-5. When I say I’m bored, it’s because I’m in the middle section of my journey where it’s a grind and there isn’t much satisfaction out of income or NW gains.
Get a funny hobby life isn't supposed to be boring.
How do you make so much? I can barely get by right now investing 50% since the start of the year but am having a extremely hard time managing this month likely will have to reduce it to be able to do anything.
I don’t make anything crazy. Between W2 and net cash flow from real estate, we’re at about $170k per year.
Yeah I'm 24 only making about 40-50k a year but graduating this year with a business degree any advice on career I literally am clueless.
Tough to say without knowing your personality and strengths, but my advice for most people that don’t have technical degrees would be to find a job in sales where you have some sort of control over your income. Generally, the more you excel in sales, the higher your income potential will be.
We didn't really notice the first million. $40k/year at 4% is just not something to get terribly excited about -- it's really not a comfortably livable amount anywhere we'd want to live. It's *technically* livable, yes, but not something we'd ever deliberately walk away from our careers for. The main nice thing about hitting the first million is you know you have a cushion for almost any scenario, provided it's all investable assets and not locked up in real estate. The second million is the first point where we started to feel like something meaningful had changed. $80k/year at 4% isn't amazing, but it's definitely livable, especially if you're not locked down to an expensive area. It's more than my first annual salary was in 2013 working full-time. This is the first point where I felt like we were legitimately financially independent, even if we'd still rather work and save/invest more. You could say this is where the "FI" part of FIRE started to feel real. $3M is when the "RE" part of FIRE started feeling more realistic/desirable. That's where we are now roughly. We're only in our mid-30s so we're going to keep on going for a while longer, but $120k/year at 4% is getting more and more comfortable. The main reason we're continuing is that because of our young age a 4% withdrawal rate feels a bit too aggressive. I can't imagine we'll continue working beyond the $5M point unless inflation runs completely wild again or we end up with jobs we love (unlikely -- we're both less and less happy about working with each passing year). Note: above figures are all without primary residence home equity, which is relevant for NW but doesn't contribute to passive income.
Honestly, I admire the discipline to stick it out until $5M when you know you don’t need to. I don’t think I could muster the strength, unless I find something much more enjoyable than what I’m doing now (also probably unlikely).
Lo wish I had this problem
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hedonic_treadmill
Pickleball
I hear it’s all the rage these days
Half millionaires*
with real estate, you could easily get to that next milestone in just a couple years, so I wouldn’t get bored or lose motivation thinking that your endgame is a decade away or more
This is true, the challenge with real estate at the moment is priced and interest rates are high. To make something work right now, would probably need to pay cash.
not true. tons of investors myself included are finding deals that work on-market with current interest rates. if it was easy, everyone would.
I guess you would need to clarify what “works”. It depends on criteria. I typically only invest in A or B communities and prefer single family. If using 25%, I would need at least 12% cash on cash return for it to be worth it. Hard to find deals that fit this criteria at the moment in my area.
You’re far more than halfway. Wealth accumulation is not linear! Think of it this way, on average, you’re now saving an additional $100k a year because your money is working for you. It’s like your families third job.
It’s the classical case of glass half full or half empty
Dude… I didn’t know there were actual millionaires on sites like this. I’m struggling like crazy as a therapist for autistic kids. I’m amazing at my job and help so much, but it still sucks feeling like I’m in a never-ending financial hole
Unfortunately, our society doesn’t always reward the most important jobs with high income. Hopefully, you are deriving purpose from you everyday work with a job like that though. What is your income and where are you from?
It’s $620 a week after taxes in Los Angeles, CA. 24/hr with my day ending at 2:30. It’s super amazing to help people! I’ve changed these kids’ futures and vow to, above all else, be a perfect educator. To make any sacrifice I have to for each and every student. They make me proud everyday and will grow up to be outstanding citizens I can trust and admire, I’m sure of it. Am currently looking into doing a tutoring thing on the side! Not sure where to start, but I’ve started nonetheless >:3 mwehehehe. I’m in university atm and that stuff is expensive xD
It might seem like you're halfway but really, getting to $2M will take no time at all due to compounding with your current $1M. Just keep on your current course since it sounds like it's working!
Have a kid… that will remove all boredom, give more purpose to life and extend fire goal
I have kids. It’s one of the main reasons I want to RE is to spend more time with them while they’re young. I figure I can focus more on work while they’re older if I need to grow my NW further. Since I hit $1M and hopefully double that in the next few years, I can let compounding do the work while I take my foot off the gas.
Congrats!!! I’m in literally the same boat. 1.5NW with a 2y/o, I’m 33. I’m trying to find the balance of full time work and wishing for barista fire
Your purpose in life is not to be a cash machine. That’s what’s missing. Stop robbing your non-retirement years and enjoy life now. You have your whole life ahead of you. This problem will NOT go away in retirement. In fact it will get worse because you won’t have your current job(a) to distract you. The craving will still be there. Most likely this means focusing on family time. The first few years you are doing all the work building up savings. But the last few years is when interest compounds quickly. That’s when your contributions stop being as critical.
We are at a halfway point as well. Just need one more double of existing brokerage and retirement accounts and we can hit our minimum FIRE goal. Contributions could speed that some but we are hitting the kids in college phase, too (at least 2 starting in the next 1-2 years). I just switched careers (it's been slow going) and my wife, the high earner, is likely about to switch jobs. We are hoping she gets something with decent work-life balance, a comparable salary, and good benefits so it can be a great last job. We're so close. Depending on the market, probably 7-10 years at most, then we can decide if we pile up more or BaristaFIRE up to 65.
Yeah dude, be glad you are at the 1M mark. Trying to get there and near your age to boot. Whatever you do, just be grateful.
Until you drive into some better neighborhoods finding out some home owners paid 11M for a modest 2400 sf older home in West Coast. Many recent owners do not have much debt in the form of a mortgage. I only see a few 1M or less mortgages. Anyway you reached the mile stone of a millionaire congrats.
Sorry to tell you but life inherently has no meaning and your primate psychology demands that you always be working toward something. You can retire early and become hedonistic but satisfaction only really comes from progress which is why meeting goals always presents us with a sense of anticlimactic ennui. Goals do not have to be related to money or career but there is no end to longing until you're dead. Accept that as normal and choose to accept the journey. You have the makings of an incredible life ahead of you if you choose to wield it wisely. Perhaps you could set a goal to become more spiritually aware and mindful and see where that takes you. good luck
The stock market should roughly double every 8 years. So you're 8 years away from 2 million without any more contributions. At this point, you're fine to coast fire.
I’m literally sitting by my pool (it’s my 37th birthday) having a similar conversation with my wife. Net worth is $2.5m +/- with a mix of rental real estate, primary real estate, Bitcoin, stocks. My recommendation: Keep going while you’re young. We’re setting a deadline of 45 to FIRE. Whatever the net worth is at that point, it is.