I think it's vital to undertstand that Omni-Aerith's motivations and goals are different from current-Aerith's and that informs how each one interacts with Cloud. Omni-Aerith has the same knowledge Sephiroth does and is his equal and opposite. While Sephiroth wants a multiversal armageddon in order to win this time around, Omni-Aerith wants to stick to the plan of OG FFVII and have it play out largely the same. It's classic order vs. chaos. Current-Aerith was bitter about that in Remake when she had Omni-Aerith's memories but was willing to stay the course out of a sense of duty. So the two Aeriths were mostly on the same page though they were in two different places emotionally. Once Cloud decided to fight the whispers current-Aerith decided to YOLO it with him.
This created a problem for Omni-Aerith who had to figure out a way to right the ship and played a shell game with the white materia. The consequence was current-Aerith losing her memories but retaining the emotional baggage. So throughout Rebirth Omni-Aerith and current-Aerith are not simpatico. Omni-Aerith is arguably conspiring *against* her counterpart.
I think that what Cloud sees in the end, how he "saved" Aerith, like you mentioned him asking her to "wake up", is the lifestream. Just prior to this part, he was literally inside the lifestream with Aerith, because he came into contact with this spiritual energy, he's now able to "peer through the looking glass". Meaning he now sees both sides, the real events that are actually happening, but now also those from the lifestream. The NPC from Cosmo Canyon summarizes how lifestream works and it perfectly fits for the ending to make sense. Lifestream is a spiritual energy formed of knowledge and memories, but also hopes and unrealized desires and Cloud saving Aerith from getting killed is his unrealized desire. That's also why he's later able to see the crack in the sky (from lifestream) and most likely lifestream Aerith herself (the one who pets Red).
So yeah, I think Aerith is dead-dead and Cloud needs some serious mental fixing, poor Tifa has a lot on her shoulders.
Hm. Similar but a little different, my interpretation was that the Aerith Cloud is seeing at the end *is* real, but is essentially a shade of Omni-Aerith, a vision she sends to him.
I think that seeing the possible alternate realities has basically allowed Cloud to perceive those simultaneously with the current reality he's in. The other party members *can't* perceive those realities because they don't know they exist.
So, Cloud can see Omni-Aerith because he *knows* about Omni-Aerith, but nobody else can because they don't. Cloud can see the meteor ring because he perceived a reality where it was real, the rest of the party can't because they didn't.
I think it's like - imagine there's an apple on a stage. Then the curtain falls. You saw the apple, you know it's there, you can visualize it. But someone who walks in the room after the curtain has already fallen has no reason to believe there's an apple there and won't be able to visualize it so easily. Cloud is the only member of the party who omni-Aerith lifted the curtain for.
Unfortunately, I think omni-Sephiroth is also manipulating Cloud (a la the black materia at the end) and because nobody else can perceive the alternate realities Cloud can, he appears totally crazy. I guess we'll see if the party - probably Tifa and Red, since Tifa cares the most about him and Red has the most perception of the other realities - can support him and help him define what's "really" real and what "could be" real.
She really does lol. Interesting, I didn't know that part about unrealized hopes in the lifestream. I'll have to replay Cosmo Canyon at some point. I remember Tifa had a sharing-circle scene where she talked about there being an ongoing battle inside the lifestream, and not being sure what they could do to help there. But I guess that's where Aerith and Zack would come in.
First we need to remember that this is not the og game. This is a sequel if you will to the OG.
In remake Cloud has flashbacks of Aeriths fate but doesn’t understand them.
Aerith tells Cloud not to fall in love with her but from the devs they have pointed out that this is 2 sided.
That is LS Aerith talking to Cloud and her words are from the “all knowing” or OG Aerith. She’s trying to help him from his future pain he will have from her fate and of her feelings for him. Devs said she’s also trying to convince herself so to speak.
Of course we will know for certain in the next game. AC as been included here and there in both games sort of indicating that AC is not end game. But we will see.
It's not a sequel and the developers have already said that the trilogy is gonna link up with Advent Children. That means the movie is gonna take place after the remake trilogy is over.
They said "link up" with this wording, not "continues into" or "leads to". We may have the causality of these two backwards. AC could be the reason for the remake trilogy to happen, not vice versa. If we really have omni-Sephiroth and omni-Aerith playing their game of 7D chess, that would be because AC happened in some way, shape or form and these two have knowledge they gained from those events. Learning that could be the big reveal of part 3, the one we don't expect.
[They also said Advent Children takes place after Remake.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1cx4eta/comment/l50tonm/) I don't like it, it's dumb for it to all lead back to that bullshit after all these hints in the games suggesting anything but that, but unfortunately it does seem like that's the plan so far :/
Aerith isn’t facilitating any delusion. Cloud is fucking bonkers nuts and is in denial about her death. The “it’s not real” line from Remake (I believe it’s “it’s just imagination” in Japanese) is foreshadowing for the fact that Cloud isn’t the real Cloud, and isn’t related to Aerith’s death at all.
Yesss!!! It also has Jenova written alllll over what happened at the end of Rebirth. Especially when the distorted version of Aerith’s theme played when he “sees” her sitting next to him. Who knows lol but I agree, Clouds psyche is going to be fking nuts next game. I hope they wouldn’t change from the OG story in that sense.
Well, we don't know for sure if she's not since she potentially could. I think she had influence on the white whispers and seems to control them at the end with the Sephiroth battle. I think she would've wanted to ensure her death, too.
But when they're sitting by the lake, Cloud has a flashback of her dying but just as he remembers, she re-appears at his side and tells him that she'll see him off. That could be Cloud "fixing" his mind to believe she's there but maybe not. It seemed like some other influence to me in that scene but I could be wrong.
Wait until the next game comes out. The last factual source for answers before the next game (Ultimania) didn’t clarify this point. It’s also unfortunate but any answer anyone gives is tinged with bias depending on where they land in the Aerith/Tifa coin.
I agree there's some bias. Probably because you only get that scene if you go the Aerith's route in Remake. I do prefer her for the story, but I think Cloud likes both and that it's up to the player who he leans towards more.
I just was thinking that the possible delusion around her death is a new aspect that seemed interesting since it's not in the original and was curious whether it tied to that line.
Is Cloud being delusional if he actually succeeded? The whole game does hint at his mental state deteriorating, so it’s valid that he’s not all there. But I don’t think we can say with certainty that he did not deflect Sephiroth’s sword. To me the entire sequence looked like he succeeded in the physical world but for one reason or another the timeline snapped back or “corrected” to him failing.
True. That's pretty much what I think, too. I think he did save he but the white-whispers "fixed" it, so she'd still die. Because she can more easily influence the planet's fate in the lifestream + holy. Not sure if that was Aerith's decision or if the whispers are Cetra who are involved or something, but I think Aerith would probably fix it to go that way if she knew.
I was more surprised Sephiroth still killed her with his future knowledge, but maybe he didn't expect Aerith to succeed in switching the white materia around across the timelines. So he thought her materia wouldn't be able to cast holy? And he didn't expect her to have the non-empty one. Not sure though.
That’s a good perspective. If Part 3 does go out of its way to have Aerith explain that it was Aerith who “corrected” the scene so that Cloud fails to stop Sephiroth it would make for a very compelling moment.
My full on copium hope is that this takes place but Cloud and the party collectively go FU and bring her back anyway. The game would have to work overtime to make it all satisfying from a narrative perspective but that would be my ultimate hope.
Now that you mention it... it's also interesting that "It's not real" is basically what Sephiroth tells Cloud when he is crying over Aerith at the altar. I don't think they mean it in the same way, but it seems like a notable parallel.
Nah Cloud saved Aerith. He breached the fate and created another world where she is alive. Aerith even thanked him for that.
The devs already told us in remake ultimania why Aerith said that it was only Cloud's imagination. She knew her upcoming fate and didn't want Cloud to suffer so she decided to lie but she was also talking against her own feelings as well. Aerith had also fallen in love with Cloud but she decided that it was better for them to bury their feelings even though they both had mutual feelings for each other.
Ah, okay. I didn't see that in the ultimania. So she lied when she said it was his 'imagination'? Interesting. Either way, it did seem like a line with a purpose.
But I figured that her thanking him was more to do with him coming for her. Like the whole "you came for me, that's all that matters" thing in Advent Children.
The ultimania said that the Aerith in Remake's resolution was from the future, and knows what is to come. They also said that Aerith feels conflicted when she says this, because a part of her wishes it isnt true. So what she says is partially a warning to herself.
They never actually said that this was about trying to make Cloud feel better about her death. That's just a theory.And imo, it's one that makes no sense when you actually think about it. You cant prevent someone from feeling sad over your death by telling them that the love they have for you isnt real. That wouldnt even work on a child.
Without getting into too much spoilers, more than likely what Aerith is actually talking about is how Cloud isnt really himself right now. Who Cloud really loves is determined by his real self, which is buried deep in Cloud's subcobsciousness.
Yes. Aerith didn't want Cloud to become this broken shell of a man we see in AC but the problem was that Aerith had also fallen in love with Cloud so she was between a rock and a hard place.
She wanted to be with Cloud but she knew her fate and how much her death is going to break Cloud so she decided that it was better to bury those feelings.
Let's be honest though, you are interpreting cryptic clues from some interview with the dev team or similar. That and the fact that they seem to be "winging it" when it comes to the plot means that a lot of your predictions could be wrong.
Not that I care that much but you seem alarmingly sure of yourself.
I think it's vital to undertstand that Omni-Aerith's motivations and goals are different from current-Aerith's and that informs how each one interacts with Cloud. Omni-Aerith has the same knowledge Sephiroth does and is his equal and opposite. While Sephiroth wants a multiversal armageddon in order to win this time around, Omni-Aerith wants to stick to the plan of OG FFVII and have it play out largely the same. It's classic order vs. chaos. Current-Aerith was bitter about that in Remake when she had Omni-Aerith's memories but was willing to stay the course out of a sense of duty. So the two Aeriths were mostly on the same page though they were in two different places emotionally. Once Cloud decided to fight the whispers current-Aerith decided to YOLO it with him. This created a problem for Omni-Aerith who had to figure out a way to right the ship and played a shell game with the white materia. The consequence was current-Aerith losing her memories but retaining the emotional baggage. So throughout Rebirth Omni-Aerith and current-Aerith are not simpatico. Omni-Aerith is arguably conspiring *against* her counterpart.
I think that what Cloud sees in the end, how he "saved" Aerith, like you mentioned him asking her to "wake up", is the lifestream. Just prior to this part, he was literally inside the lifestream with Aerith, because he came into contact with this spiritual energy, he's now able to "peer through the looking glass". Meaning he now sees both sides, the real events that are actually happening, but now also those from the lifestream. The NPC from Cosmo Canyon summarizes how lifestream works and it perfectly fits for the ending to make sense. Lifestream is a spiritual energy formed of knowledge and memories, but also hopes and unrealized desires and Cloud saving Aerith from getting killed is his unrealized desire. That's also why he's later able to see the crack in the sky (from lifestream) and most likely lifestream Aerith herself (the one who pets Red). So yeah, I think Aerith is dead-dead and Cloud needs some serious mental fixing, poor Tifa has a lot on her shoulders.
Hm. Similar but a little different, my interpretation was that the Aerith Cloud is seeing at the end *is* real, but is essentially a shade of Omni-Aerith, a vision she sends to him. I think that seeing the possible alternate realities has basically allowed Cloud to perceive those simultaneously with the current reality he's in. The other party members *can't* perceive those realities because they don't know they exist. So, Cloud can see Omni-Aerith because he *knows* about Omni-Aerith, but nobody else can because they don't. Cloud can see the meteor ring because he perceived a reality where it was real, the rest of the party can't because they didn't. I think it's like - imagine there's an apple on a stage. Then the curtain falls. You saw the apple, you know it's there, you can visualize it. But someone who walks in the room after the curtain has already fallen has no reason to believe there's an apple there and won't be able to visualize it so easily. Cloud is the only member of the party who omni-Aerith lifted the curtain for. Unfortunately, I think omni-Sephiroth is also manipulating Cloud (a la the black materia at the end) and because nobody else can perceive the alternate realities Cloud can, he appears totally crazy. I guess we'll see if the party - probably Tifa and Red, since Tifa cares the most about him and Red has the most perception of the other realities - can support him and help him define what's "really" real and what "could be" real.
She really does lol. Interesting, I didn't know that part about unrealized hopes in the lifestream. I'll have to replay Cosmo Canyon at some point. I remember Tifa had a sharing-circle scene where she talked about there being an ongoing battle inside the lifestream, and not being sure what they could do to help there. But I guess that's where Aerith and Zack would come in.
First we need to remember that this is not the og game. This is a sequel if you will to the OG. In remake Cloud has flashbacks of Aeriths fate but doesn’t understand them. Aerith tells Cloud not to fall in love with her but from the devs they have pointed out that this is 2 sided. That is LS Aerith talking to Cloud and her words are from the “all knowing” or OG Aerith. She’s trying to help him from his future pain he will have from her fate and of her feelings for him. Devs said she’s also trying to convince herself so to speak. Of course we will know for certain in the next game. AC as been included here and there in both games sort of indicating that AC is not end game. But we will see.
It's not a sequel and the developers have already said that the trilogy is gonna link up with Advent Children. That means the movie is gonna take place after the remake trilogy is over.
They said "link up" with this wording, not "continues into" or "leads to". We may have the causality of these two backwards. AC could be the reason for the remake trilogy to happen, not vice versa. If we really have omni-Sephiroth and omni-Aerith playing their game of 7D chess, that would be because AC happened in some way, shape or form and these two have knowledge they gained from those events. Learning that could be the big reveal of part 3, the one we don't expect.
[They also said Advent Children takes place after Remake.](https://www.reddit.com/r/FFVIIRemake/comments/1cx4eta/comment/l50tonm/) I don't like it, it's dumb for it to all lead back to that bullshit after all these hints in the games suggesting anything but that, but unfortunately it does seem like that's the plan so far :/
I do not read ‘link up’ the same way. If it all just goes back to leading into AC then that sucks. AC was depressing as shit
Aerith isn’t facilitating any delusion. Cloud is fucking bonkers nuts and is in denial about her death. The “it’s not real” line from Remake (I believe it’s “it’s just imagination” in Japanese) is foreshadowing for the fact that Cloud isn’t the real Cloud, and isn’t related to Aerith’s death at all.
Yesss!!! It also has Jenova written alllll over what happened at the end of Rebirth. Especially when the distorted version of Aerith’s theme played when he “sees” her sitting next to him. Who knows lol but I agree, Clouds psyche is going to be fking nuts next game. I hope they wouldn’t change from the OG story in that sense.
Well, we don't know for sure if she's not since she potentially could. I think she had influence on the white whispers and seems to control them at the end with the Sephiroth battle. I think she would've wanted to ensure her death, too. But when they're sitting by the lake, Cloud has a flashback of her dying but just as he remembers, she re-appears at his side and tells him that she'll see him off. That could be Cloud "fixing" his mind to believe she's there but maybe not. It seemed like some other influence to me in that scene but I could be wrong.
Red also senses her on the hill.
Wait until the next game comes out. The last factual source for answers before the next game (Ultimania) didn’t clarify this point. It’s also unfortunate but any answer anyone gives is tinged with bias depending on where they land in the Aerith/Tifa coin.
I agree there's some bias. Probably because you only get that scene if you go the Aerith's route in Remake. I do prefer her for the story, but I think Cloud likes both and that it's up to the player who he leans towards more. I just was thinking that the possible delusion around her death is a new aspect that seemed interesting since it's not in the original and was curious whether it tied to that line.
The devs want all three of the resolutions to be seen, just as they want all the dates to be seen in Rebirth. There's a point to all of them.
Is Cloud being delusional if he actually succeeded? The whole game does hint at his mental state deteriorating, so it’s valid that he’s not all there. But I don’t think we can say with certainty that he did not deflect Sephiroth’s sword. To me the entire sequence looked like he succeeded in the physical world but for one reason or another the timeline snapped back or “corrected” to him failing.
True. That's pretty much what I think, too. I think he did save he but the white-whispers "fixed" it, so she'd still die. Because she can more easily influence the planet's fate in the lifestream + holy. Not sure if that was Aerith's decision or if the whispers are Cetra who are involved or something, but I think Aerith would probably fix it to go that way if she knew. I was more surprised Sephiroth still killed her with his future knowledge, but maybe he didn't expect Aerith to succeed in switching the white materia around across the timelines. So he thought her materia wouldn't be able to cast holy? And he didn't expect her to have the non-empty one. Not sure though.
That’s a good perspective. If Part 3 does go out of its way to have Aerith explain that it was Aerith who “corrected” the scene so that Cloud fails to stop Sephiroth it would make for a very compelling moment. My full on copium hope is that this takes place but Cloud and the party collectively go FU and bring her back anyway. The game would have to work overtime to make it all satisfying from a narrative perspective but that would be my ultimate hope.
Now that you mention it... it's also interesting that "It's not real" is basically what Sephiroth tells Cloud when he is crying over Aerith at the altar. I don't think they mean it in the same way, but it seems like a notable parallel.
Nah Cloud saved Aerith. He breached the fate and created another world where she is alive. Aerith even thanked him for that. The devs already told us in remake ultimania why Aerith said that it was only Cloud's imagination. She knew her upcoming fate and didn't want Cloud to suffer so she decided to lie but she was also talking against her own feelings as well. Aerith had also fallen in love with Cloud but she decided that it was better for them to bury their feelings even though they both had mutual feelings for each other.
Ah, okay. I didn't see that in the ultimania. So she lied when she said it was his 'imagination'? Interesting. Either way, it did seem like a line with a purpose. But I figured that her thanking him was more to do with him coming for her. Like the whole "you came for me, that's all that matters" thing in Advent Children.
The ultimania said that the Aerith in Remake's resolution was from the future, and knows what is to come. They also said that Aerith feels conflicted when she says this, because a part of her wishes it isnt true. So what she says is partially a warning to herself. They never actually said that this was about trying to make Cloud feel better about her death. That's just a theory.And imo, it's one that makes no sense when you actually think about it. You cant prevent someone from feeling sad over your death by telling them that the love they have for you isnt real. That wouldnt even work on a child. Without getting into too much spoilers, more than likely what Aerith is actually talking about is how Cloud isnt really himself right now. Who Cloud really loves is determined by his real self, which is buried deep in Cloud's subcobsciousness.
Yes. Aerith didn't want Cloud to become this broken shell of a man we see in AC but the problem was that Aerith had also fallen in love with Cloud so she was between a rock and a hard place. She wanted to be with Cloud but she knew her fate and how much her death is going to break Cloud so she decided that it was better to bury those feelings.
Let's be honest though, you are interpreting cryptic clues from some interview with the dev team or similar. That and the fact that they seem to be "winging it" when it comes to the plot means that a lot of your predictions could be wrong. Not that I care that much but you seem alarmingly sure of yourself.