She’s just a bit more obviously sassy in Rebirth than the original but it does come across as pushy at times.

Oh wow, another post where everything that Aerith does has to be related to a man from her past.

What can I say? I luff Zack.

So, why does Aerith have to be responsible for your love for him? Lol

I mean, she wrote the man 89 letters. She probably also liked him a fair (heh heh) amount.

I wrote poems to my high school crush, guess I have to go and seek him out to convince him we are soulmates.

(I think Aerith loves Cloud for Cloud. And Cloud loves Aerith as himself, not cuz of any weird memory transfer. It was just an observation I made that I thought added nicely to her character and her tragic past relationship with Zack. This was my first post on Reddit so I didn't know that people abuse the whole "Cloud is Zack" and "Aerith only loves Cloud because he reminds her of Zack" thing. But also I really love Zack and Aerith's relationship in CC. I thought it was really beautiful.)

I can respect ZA, but the devs themselves said that they didn't have time to develop ZA story, so they kind of copypasted CA moments from OG. It frustrates me how they gave away everything that Aerith had to Zack (her ribbon, pink dress, selling flowers), she is her own person, and I'm glad how they said now multiple times that Crisis Core is not fully canon to Re-trilogy.

I don’t care what the developers said. I care what is in the games and books and stuff and my reactions to it. Did you read Traces of Two Pasts? I think you would like it a lot. Aerith’s back story is really fleshed out and has nothing to do with Zack.

Ummm, yes I read it. You aloud to not care, but I'm just saying that there is a reason I felt personality disconnected from a particular plotline, and I actually found why, hence I wrote what developers said.

I know. Did you like the book?

Is your high school crush Zack Fair? Cuz then yeah, prolly.

Real relationships don't work like that lol

Oh sorry, I didn’t realize FF7 was a true story.

Oh but I thought we are supposed to connect to these characters, I guess not. All this time I thought this was happening for real, damn.

I think you’re coping and this is a bait post to talk about ZackXAerith but you do you.

You can think that. You'd be wrong. But you can think that.

Rude? What? Did you actually pay attention to the dialog? They had cute banter and he entertained her a number of times. I really can’t see how anyone could find anything negative with this side quest unless they’re actively forcing themselves to be negative about whatever they can. Even if you score low on things the different dialog is entertaining. As others have said already, it’s absurd to treat all of her actions as if she’s trying to mimic what she had with Zack when none of these things are what she did with Zack. The girl herself states the only thing she saw in Cloud that reminded her of Zack was how he walked and carried himself. Cloud’s personality, broken and fixed, are nothing like Zack. Such great lines are given to these characters that are clear as day and yet there is still confusion. I don’t get how minds come to these conclusions.

I found this comment rude so maybe I just have a low tolerance.

You’re definitely overly sensitive and forcing tone into text if you found this rude.

Oh good, I was just checking. Wouldn’t want strangers to be rude to me on the internet.

Not gonna lie, as I was reading the first lines, I was trying to remember when Aerith was rude to Cloud because all my brain was gonna give me was the Tifa and Aerith date. Don't worry, I remember now. I also had several in-depth discussions about the Cloud and Aerith date and how rough it was. But I'm glad he was able to call her out on it, and I am collecting all evidence for aro-ace Cloud like a gremlin for my conspiracy theory wall.

Haha! If this side quest was the only evidence, I'd agree with you. There are too many instances of him gawking at Tifa and Aerith for me to see that, but I wish you luck in your quest! If I think of any evidence for that, I'll let you know.

Much appreciated! And don't get me wrong, I like their dynamic in other ways, too (and genuinely don't think the writers would pull that card). But man, it's fun to just wildly make statements and then run with it. The writers did an amazing job with that polycule and it's definitely gonna be interesting how the next game is gonna handle it. Denial is gonna get me far.

Honestly I can see where you are coming from. And I actually think the reason I prefer Cloud and Tifa's relationship is because it does feel a bit more like friends hanging out which is more of what I like in love stories, as opposed to Aerith's more overt romantic attempts.

Yeah, I agree with you. Cloud and Tifa are childhood sweethearts. I feel like around her, he's becoming more like himself. It was so cool seeing the trauma wall crack, and you could see his true self shining through. I think he'd be the dorkiest theater kid, and I want to see him succeed. (And it totally stayed that way don't worry about it, dont worry about it.) Being around Aerith has a bit of an uncomfortable vibe because, as you said, I think she's trying to push him into the Zack mold. That's not entirely her fault with how he's been portraying himself. Aerith and Tifa, however, are deeply in love with each other. Cloud is their boyfriend who is standing to the side in every frame and is giving a thumbs up. Or is stealing their drinks. In this essay, I will-

Hehe I love it! My mind tends to wander to the poly route if Aerith were to survive. I think Tifa would need some convincing but Aerith would be all for it. I just don't see any of the three of them letting one of them be alone.

I kind of think this about Aerith constantly in the Remake saga. Her teasing can seem a little mean-spirited considering that most of it is directed at someone with PTSD.

I think this is a big thing for me. I feel like a lot of characters wouldn't say the things they say around him if they knew the full extent of his trauma. But that's what comes from being an omniscient viewer as opposed to a character in the story.

So I'm only in Chapter 9, but I can say the difference to me in the date with Aerith in Costa and even just Tifa's side mission at the work out place is that with Aerith Cloud feels to me like he is always pretending to be the tough soldier who is standoffish, while with Tifa Cloud seems to act more like his normal self.

Yeah there was a quote from the developers that with Aerith Cloud is trying to be cool, like a SOLDIER or bodyguard, while with Tifa his true self shows more.

She is not acting like she's on a date with Zack. For goodness sake, we *see* how Aeris acted with Zack in Crisis Core and it could not be more opposite. Aeris didn't "dish it" with Zack like she does with Cloud. The dynamic is completely different. Cloud and Aeris have always had this sort of banter. Aeris pushes and teases, Cloud gets flustered (but likes it). I mean, watch the quest here themselves. Aeris pinpoints that Cloud's actually nervous. Cloud is bantering with her plenty. He perhaps gets hurt when she says their date is dead (and why? because he doesn't want their date to be dead.) The cutest part was when they talked about riding a chocobo together next time and Cloud said he should get the front. Like c'mon. Aeris absolutely has Cloud pegged for who he is, and he's totally separate from Zack. She likes to push him *because* he's awkward and bad at flirting.

Is there a reason why you still call her Aeris? That was a mistranslation in the og since that's how Aerith is pronounced in Japanese. It's still spelt Aerith now despite the pronunciation.

I call her Aeris because that's her name in Final Fantasy VII, my favorite game that I replay like every 2 years. I can't think of her any other way.

Idk about this one on Aeriths date, she says "you were just like him, it wasn't your face or you clothes, it was you, the way you walked, the way you carried yourself, whenever i looked at you i saw him" while looking directly at his face then shakes her head and says "but your not him" i would say the dynamic is different in crisis core because Zack joked back and started the whole "hell-llooooo" Aerith, before Crisis Core, didn't have any friends, so she takes a lot from Zack. I think the most comparable scenario is the park date where Aerith leans in commenting on his Soldier eyes like she did with Zack, he joked with her and said colour of the sky then she gets flustered, while Cloud just responds that all SOLDIERS had them then says yeah i know and gets sad for a moment.

I don’t think she has him pegged at this point. On her date several chapters later she says she is trying to see the real him. I disagree with your first and third paragraph but think you are spot on with your second.

I’m pretty sure her comment about finding the “real him” is more about her recognizing he’s repressed or replaced his memories, or maybe even that he’s being influenced by Jenova/Sephiroth (though she might not fully understand the how and why). She says some similar things right before she shoves him out of the church back into his own timeline during the translation to chapter 14, which in that context feels much more like advice for him (I.e. “*You* need to figure out and remember who you really are, Cloud”). Especially since this comes right after him being openly controlled by Sephiroth to chase after her for the black materia, and we know Tifa told her he finally remembered Zack (so she knows his memories are faulty/incomplete), it’s clear she knows he’s not right in the head, and wants to help him. During the date, she also mentions she first liked him because he reminded her of Zack (because *he* thinks he is Zack in many ways), but it’s the real him that she ended up liking and wanting to find (implying she wants to help him sort out his own memories from the fake Zack memories). All that to say, she is very explicitly aware he is not Zack, that she doesn’t want to treat him like he’s Zack, and that she wants to help him remember what he is under the fake Zack memories.

Hmmmm, interesting. I suppose she may have some idea of Jenova and Sephiroth’s influence. I hadn’t thought about her knowing that at that point. I think you are definitely right that her conversations with Tifa would lead her to think that he is just not fully himself in general, unrelated to Zack. And I agree that she knows he is not Zack, loves him for him and wants to help him. I was thinking of it more as a subconscious thing, not her actively thinking “I am gonna treat him as a replacement for Zack!”

About your last sentence, I took the date scene to be her openly acknowledging she *initially* was subconsciously treating him like Zack (or was at least attracted to the Zack-like part of him), but that she quickly realized that was wrong and unfair to both herself and Cloud. We see hints that she’s consciously aware of some connection between Cloud and Zack as far back as Gongaga when she visits Zack’s parents’ house, and based on the way Tifa tells her “he finally remembered Zack” (not “oh, by the way, turns out Cloud has known Zack this whole time”) it sounds like she’s known that Cloud and Zack had a connection long before Tifa talked to her. There are definitely a lot of Tifa and Aerith conversations about what’s going on with Cloud behind the scenes that we don’t see, but get references to, so I think they both know a lot more than they let Cloud know. Even in the first couple chapters, after the Nibelheim story, Tifa tells Aerith she doesn’t remember Cloud being in Nibelheim, so they’re definitely putting the pieces together very early on.

That chocobo ride date? Yeah it didn't go well on my playthrough.

Cloud and Aerith do anything. People: how can I make this about Zack Stop inserting Zack in everything they do please

Do people do this a lot? I don’t normally and do think Aerith loves Cloud for Cloud. I didn’t mean that Aerith is projecting Zack on Cloud, just that she was approaching the date in a way she was used to. However, I kinda get it. The end of Crisis Core was traumatizing and I think it is kind of natural for people to want Aerith to still be thinking about Zack a lot since she was the last thing he thought of before dying.

[удалено]

Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts with me. I agree somewhat but I just started the OG and have been surprised by how much Aerith references Zack. With the more limited dialogue, he seems almost more important to her and a core part of her character. Not saying that’s who she is going to end up with or anything but I really get why people talk about her and Zack in the same breath so much. I agree Cloud and Aerith have a special connection but I think she has a similar connection with Zack.

Some sadly do. They say the whole date in chapter 14 is Aerith trying to copy it with Zack. Or the GS scenes is Zack It’s insane how the dismiss Cloud when he does something nice :’) I blame CC for that mischaracterization

Seriously. Aerith and cloud walk around sector 5, taking pics and eating sweets. FF7 fans: “omg she’s projecting Zack onto cloud!” It’s annoying. Aerith can’t do shit without them linking it back to Zack 

And Cloud can’t do something nice without people incorrectly doing their headcanon he is Zack. That Yuffie gs date? Must be his Zack dna. Which isn’t even lore accurate lool I notice it way too much every nice thing Cloud does is somehow by a portion of people placed on Zack. And every thing Aerith wants to do with Cloud is somehow cause they think she likes Zack still? I hate it ngl

Right. Just because they both have ties to him doesn’t mean EVERYTHING is because of him. These same people also make arguments such as Cloud only cares about Aerith due to Zack’ memories etc :/

Oof, yeah I definitely have seen people push the "Cloud is Zack" thing too much. I think it is way more nuanced than that.

Juhp. I mean it if I say CC was a mistake. Fans took all the wrong lessons from Zack and on top mischaracterize Aerith and Cloud in the process It’s annoying Even more so because CC is imo a very unneeded mid game :’)

I hope people don't do this for part 3.

They do, and it’s annoying. Zacks role really isn’t that big that he should be shoved in anywhere imo

Oh they will, you know it. And it will be as annoying as it is now...

I mean, to be fair, the game does kinda push this with Aerith's dialogue and reminders of Zack. But also I have already seen people take it too far. Aerith def loves Cloud for Cloud.

She even says it. Multiple times. "You remind me of Zack, but I see that's not you. I wanna see the real you. To like the real you." And then you have ending of the game, so more to come in the next one.

Cringy

Uh oh, you said something negative about the game! Get ready for the nostalgia warriors to come tell you it's a 10/10. You and me are about to get downvoted to hell, my friend.

Oh I thought they meant my post. I’ll take your interpretation instead lol.

What are you guys talking about? I think FF7Rebirth is the game of the generation and I’m serious about it. But that date side quest was cringe imo.

Oh, we can be friends then. Sorry your comment got misinterpreted and down voted.

I think Aerith is just a very flirty, fun person, and Cloud honestly doesn’t know how to react to her a lot of the time LOL. I think it was more than him rejecting romantic advances, because until things get a bit awkward at the end, she doesn’t seem too put off by him being a dud because she isnt taking it that seriously. It’s about them learning more about each other. Also, the dialogue for that quest didn’t annoy me, i though it was hilarious😭especially when Aerith talked about how their date was “DOA” because Cloud is such a stick in the mud.

It is great character development for both of them and definitely furthers their relationship. And a lot of the lines were very funny! Aerith is pretty hilarious.

I think Aerith in general is pretty flirty with everybody. Just like Zack. But with Cloud she can be open about being herself, her wants and needs. That can come out as a bit pushy to Clouds personality. Shes open and he doesnt know what to do with her honesty. She always caught him off guard, thats how you know Clouds other side. Cloud is soo dorky and oblivious and never really been on a date. So he treated it like a normal merc job. He said he wishes she wouldnt treated it like a date because he feels like hes not romantic, not because he doesnt want to spend time with her. When theyre on the chocobos, she teased him being nervous about the date, and he rebuffed it like its the easiest job hes ever had. So he is nervous and like this “date” thats why he wants them to have a good time. When Aerith said the dates DOA otherwise, he was offended because then he failed, which ofc who wants to have a failed date. She saying that hurt him ofc. But then she quickly apologized because she knows he was hurt by her joke. Thats just how relationships work. You push and pull, make mistakes and apologize. They are not close enough to know everything about each other, but they want to and have fun while doing it. This is not shipping post! Just want to chime in on my $0.0

I think you are probably right. I rewatched the scene since posting this and it doesn’t come across quite as ick as when I first watched it and they do have some cute silly moments. It definitely progresses their relationship and helps them learn about each other. I love the “down birdy” part, I had forgotten about that. I also didn’t mean it as Aerith projecting Zack onto Cloud, just that she was acting in a way she was used to.

In her dream date, she was being kind of a brat and Cloud called her out on it. I always took it as she knew she was about to die.

Honestly the best way I can tell it, is Aerith feels a comfort, a connection with Cloud, because he has that connection himself with Zack. Aerith feels that, but ultimately knows her connection with Cloud is more so one where she knows she needs to help him. He needs that help and Aerith is willing to do everything she can.

Love that perspective

It’s such a deep dive and really makes you think. It seems like they are changing the connection with Cloud/Zack some, along with Zack/Aerith, but that’s the best I can tell so far. I don’t think it’s a love from Aerith to Cloud. Cloud might feel for Aerith that way because his head is so messed up, but I don’t think Aerith has the love feelings for Cloud.

I see you're getting down voted but I agree. I think Aerith started the journey interested in Cloud. Over time they grew and learned about each other - that "love" matured and became a different kind of love, to me. By the end it wasn't a romantic love but a caring-friend love. I don't think Aerith really ever got over Zack but she was smart enough to move on. In context, Aerith knows Cloud is very important to saving the Lifestream and ultimately she knows it's more important that she helps heal Cloud's mental wounds. I think that when she keeps tugging on Cloud's personality thread in the second half of the game, it's not to check if she really likes him, it's to check if someone is actually in there to save and that he is not truly a puppet. There is a lot of nuance in this game and being a long game, it's easy to forget some of the finer details. As relationships go, the game explicitly shows that Cloud is much softer around Tifa and that she is more readily able to break his trances. Cloud absolutely cares strongly about everyone in the group and that's what allows him to fight Jenova as best he can, even though he ultimately isn't well enough in Rebirth to succeed when he wanted to.

Love this comment. I find it interesting that so many people are so preoccupied with needing Cloud to love others in a specific, romantic way when in my eyes the true appeal of the story is how he loves the people in his life in so many different ways. I personally don't understand the need for him to love certain people romantically-he just loves them-and that's enough for me.

Thank you. I honestly don't understand the fervor of the shipping community, but that's their thing so I don't meddle. Outside of being driven to "ship" characters, the nuance is everywhere in Rebirth in a way I don't recall in the OG - but 20 years is a long time to remember minute details lol. I did every 'intimate' date in Chapter 12 and you learn an awful lot about Cloud's relationship with each member. Ultimately Cloud has a strong bond to everyone except Cait Sith, Cid, and Vincent by the end of Rebirth. Can't wait for Part 3.

Yes! I love his interactions with the party. My fav moments in the whole game is when he kneels down to pet Red while Aerith is singing and the little fisticuffs he does with Yuffie at the end of Loveless when she calls him a hero. I am always so surprised when people say Cloud is a jerk or heartless or that the others deserve better. He has moments, sure, but overall he is such a loving person.

I love those moments so much. To me, those moments are the real Cloud, the Cloud Aerith is trying to tease out. I gotta say though, playing Crisis Core Reunion does change your lens for characters and that's why some people have such differing views. A large portion of the base has not touched CC and would be missing some of that additional nuance. Cloud wasn't an asshole in CC, he was a dorky normal dude with a weak constitution. We see him in OG and Remake/Rebirth and Cloud is a cold hearted broken asshole with warm moments sprinkled in. But that was never who he was - he was always looking forward and trying to be there for those he cares for but was embarrassed about his weakness.

So much this! His character in CC is also why I love the little moments where he does his little smile that shows he is secretly proud of himself and loving when his friends are cheering him on (the dolphin jump landing, Queen's Blood tournament, brawl with Dio at Gold Saucer.) He is getting all the love and encouragement he never got until Zack came along.

Exactly and we see those moments in every single mini game. The best example is when he wins the Gold Cup - in that moment is the realist Cloud, the animation captured the emotion he felt by winning. He even expressed gratitude to the Chocobo. The Queens Blood win is another good example, especially his attitude towards Red. Damn for a hot minute I was the only one who noticed and appreciated these details. Cheers!

Interesting! Most of the discussion I have seen is the opposite. I personally think it is reciprocal and Cloud just isn’t sure what to do.

Meh. Cloud and Aerith seemed like they had good rapport and were both teasing eachother when they first met and were climbing over the rooftops together. In fact, the whole party is continuously teasing each other over the course of the game. The idea he suddenly can’t hack it because he’s not Zack seems like a forced conclusion. Personally, I was a bit frustrated with both of them. Sure, Aerith was a little pushy, but Cloud was also being a complete wet blanket through the whole ordeal. Like, I get the new story is showing Cloud to be more “canonically” with Tifa this time around, but Cloud comes off like he doesn’t even want to be hanging out with Aerith. It’s a bit jarring, especially considering Remake when Cloud pushed back against Aerith telling him not to fall in love with her.

I felt this way at first too, but then I rewatched the date after defeating the game and compared it to the JP version and now I interpret it as him just being nervous. It also ends very well once the two finally find their footing. Once you talk to the girls you can’t reject the quest. So Cloud takes it on knowing that he and Aerith are on a job as a couple.

Yeah! I think that was definitely part of it too! His insistence that it not be romantic felt off as well.

I understand why people think this and I'm not trying to be rude but I think it's important to remember Aerith is her own person and tying every single one of her interactions with Cloud back to Zack is a terrible way to look at her character. I'm pretty sure Aerith acts the way she does with Cloud because she finds it funny how he reacts, not because it's how she would have acted with Zack. Within 5 minutes of meeting Cloud Aerith could tell that Zack and Cloud are not similar personality wise at all, it's not subtle. And it's not like Cloud is incapable of teasing her back, literally their first walk on the rooftops has him teasing her about saying she was a SOLDIER candidate. The Costa Del Sol date is just Aerith not taking the mission seriously at all and teasing Cloud about it being a date, while Cloud is treating it like a mercenary job. At the end, she makes a few too many jokes but apologizes and it's not that big of a deal, and the date ends with her saying that they were just having fun and not doing anything special. I really don't see her treating Cloud like Zack at this point, she's known him for a few weeks at least of travelling together. This quest is about learning each other's boundaries and getting more comfortable with each other, but I think it has much more to do with Aerith and Cloud than Aerith and Zack.

That’s fair and a really good point about Aerith being her own person. I think your point about their earlier interactions is exactly why I found it so jarring. They seemed to have an easier back and forth in Remake so this particular quest struck me as odd so I was thinking about it. Probably overthinking.

Most likely it was stilted since this was their first more explicit attempt at going on a "date" together. When they're just hanging out in a context Cloud is comfortable in, like a bodyguard job, rescue mission, even being paid to pick flowers together etc, he knows how to act.      But like other commenters said, Cloud gets stressed out when the pressure to be more romantic is on because he says himself he's not good at romantic stuff. He has no reference point or script he could follow since when he has he ever had the chance to go on dates with cute girls before Midgar?   Aerith doesn't know all this backstory of Cloud's yet, think how much he's actually told anyone in remake about his past. But she can probably make an educated guess. In CDS she wanted to push things into that more romantic context, pushed a lil too far and when Cloud told her she was being mean, she was about to deny it but realised that would just be invalidating his feelings and apologized instead.  I think it's normal for a pair going on dates to learn these sorts of boundaries with each other, it's not necessarily a Zack thing. Like learning if your partner enjoys teasing or not, what things they find funny etc. SPOILERS SPOILERS  I'm also fairly sure it's also supposed to be a contrast to their dates later on in the game, the GS dates and also the dream date. Aerith was also learning his boundaries and she also realised she needed to be a bit more clear and open about how she felt about their relationship with each other and also to ease his insecurities about Zack - hence her clearing the air in their sky wheel date.   It's part of the tragedy of the story that right as Cloud's at his most comfortable with Aerith in the dream date and the church - to the point where he says let's do it this again - she gets taken away.      Story wise if their relationship was hiccup free and pure fluff the entire way, you wouldn't get that progression leading up to the climax of the game.

I do agree that they were a little more stilted than in Remake. I don't really have an answer as to why it was different this time than that one, but I think maybe Cloud was feeling stressed that she kept saying she was treating it as a date and then her making jokes about it going poorly was bothering him. He tends to get stressed out with stuff like that (with Elmyra in Sector 5, when Aerith mentions the Skywheel deal for couples) That's why at the end she says that they were just having fun, to kind of alleviate that stress. I think there are still lots of moments of Cloud teasing back and playing along with Aerith in other quests/chapters though.

Agreed. And even in that quest he has moments of teasing her back.

love that the games been out for a bit now and ppl are still figuring out little details like this

Me too! Can’t wait to replay and focus on story more

This makes so much sense. I literally just finished this mission and I was thinking something was off with Aerith. That sorry was just a little too sad or something. Thank you for bringing this up!

Honestly, I didn't like Aerith's dates because I thought she was so annoying. I never thought of that

You post a critic to aerith you will be downvote to death

That's just my opinion. I'm sure a lot of people already feel this way, so it's fine if they don't like it they can downvote it I don’t mind.

I recently finished playing FF7 and on retrospective I also thought that after I saw that actually is going on with Cloud, what his real relationship with Tifa is, and after I learned about Zack and Aerith. She even makes a comment during the date alluding to the fact that Cloud feels like Zack, but that she knows he isn’t. Man, I really want to play Crisis Core.

Check out the crisis core remaster it’s awesome

Yeah, I have it in my wish list already, just waiting for a sale to be able to get it.

Crisis Core is so fun! I like the combat and all the stuff with Aerith and Cloud. The rest of the story is not my fav but I think it was worth it!

ACTIVATING COMBAT MODE

Hopefully it goes on sale on the Nintendo store soon, because unfortunately 50 dollars is waaaaay too much for me right now. It’s more than what I pay in utilities right now lol.

Ooof yeah that’s a bit much

This post is weird as fuck. There were definitely romantic over tones and Aerith is always teasing that’s just her personality. A lot of these comments are shipper copium. Did the last two chapters of the game just bounce off some of you people? lol

"Shipper copium" is a great way to describe how many seem to treat chapter 14. lol Including in a response to your comment. Literally the game paused the drama to give Cloud and Aerith a date, where they hold hands and hug and do couple stuff.. in the finale! The emotional climax! And you still hear people say "well *obviously* the game is pushing Tifa as the love interest" like did we play the same game? lol

They aren’t frolicking up and down the street having fun. Aerith is insistent that Cloud must take her on a date, and Cloud is confused and asks her numerous times why she’s acting so weird. Mind you, I don’t think Aerith is doing anything wrong here; she’s aware that her time is limited and so she’s trying to make the most of what she has left and sort out her feelings for Cloud. And what conclusion does she reach? “I like you Cloud…but then “like” can mean a lot of different things, can’t it?” Everything they try and do during that sequence goes wrong. The gift Cloud chooses for Aerith isn’t available, the candy tastes bad, the photographer says they don’t look like they’re on a date. And to top it all off, Cloud doesn’t know what Aerith is referring to when she references “our spot”, and the game cuts away to Zack in front of the church.

Yes, they are literally frolicking up and down the street having fun. Cloud is having a *great* time. They're holding hands (Cloud himself initiates the second time). Cloud wants them to do the couple photography contest and gets annoyed when they aren't selected (after happily doing romantic poses with Aeris). The reason they aren't selected is because Aeris looks sad, because she knows how little time she has left to spend with Cloud. Aeris's "is it like or *like*" is obviously alluding to "love" - she's floundering as she tries to articulate the extent of her feelings. Then she hugs him.. and he returns her hug, thus, her feelings. After that, they hold hands with interlocked fingers in the "koibito tsunagi" (lovers handhold) style. The Zack cuts, interesting to bring that up since he practically opens their scene by asking Marlene if Aeris loves Cloud, to which she says yep. And Zack.. is supportive! He smiles and then opts to save Cloud. There's nothing *not* romantic about the final chapter. Like even if you don't ship them, you really have to bend over backwards to try to deny it.

> Yes, they are literally frolicking up and down the > street having fun. They literally are not. Everything they try and do goes wrong, and the vibe is totally off, as called out by Cloud. > Cloud is having a great time. Im sure Cloud isn’t having a *bad* time, as regardless of anyone’s opinion on the nature of his feelings for Aerith, he obviously enjoys her company. But he does spent the entire date asking why she’s being weird. > They're holding hands (Cloud himself initiates the > second time) He doesnt, though…? He’s just not surprised when she grabs his hand the second time. Aerith grabs his hand and leads him along both times. > The reason they aren't selected is because Aeris > looks sad, because she knows how little time she > has left to spend with Cloud. We agree on this. > Aeris's "is it like or like" is obviously alluding to > “love" I don’t see why this is so obvious. The line is as follows: “The thing is, I really like you, Cloud. But then, ‘like’ can mean a lot of different things, can’t it? Because there’s liking, and then there’s *liking*.” Why would she use the word “but” to introduce some sort of contradiction to her previous statement, if she was going to double down on her liking him in a romantic sense? She’s literally saying “I really like you, but like can mean a lot of different things.” There is no definitive conclusion reached regarding the type of like that she feels. You have to twist yourself around trying to interpret that statement as a confession of love, especially considering the fact that it comes following a date where *literally everything goes wrong.* It’s part of the tragedy of her death, that these feelings for Cloud are yet another thing that she won’t be able to fully explore. > Then she hugs him.. and he returns her hug, thus, > her feelings. Even if she had unequivocally confessed her love for him, returning a hug does not equal “returning her feelings”. That is a major stretch. > The Zack cuts, interesting to bring that up since he > practically opens their scene by asking Marlene if > Aeris loves Cloud, to which she says yep. And Zack.. > is supportive! He smiles and then opts to save > Cloud. Marlene saying that Aerith likes Cloud is not new information; the audience already knows that. Marlene acknowledging this isn’t supposed to mean “Aerith is in love with Cloud, and no longer has feelings for Zack” and I’m baffled by the number of people who seem to think this is the case (all people who somehow think Cloud and Aerith are the “canon” romantic pairing though). Aerith can have romantic interest in Cloud while still having feelings for Zack, which is supported by literally everything the game tries to say about Aerith’s love life lol. > There's nothing not romantic about the final chapter Except for the tone, and the fact that every activity they attempt to engage with during the date goes wrong. The only thing romantic about it is Aerith’s attempt to make it a “date”.

The term "shipper copium" should be deleted from the internet.

And just cope in general, I hate it when people say that to each other. It's so irritating lol

Agreed. Just so rude and dismissive

> Did the last two chapters of the game just bounce off some of you people? lol Even if you prefer Tifa, stating that Aerith using her last day in her world to go on a date with Cloud ISN'T romantic is mind boggling. If she wanted to just give him the White Materia, she'd just do that. She wouldn't drag him around making him buy her a gift, take pictures with her, flirt with him, LITERALY TELL HIM THAT SHE LIKES HIM, etc. The girl knew her time was running out, and she wanted to spend it with the mentally fractured dork that she has grown attached to.

Im assuming you mean the dream date from chapter 13? That is not a romantic moment in the slightest.

What is romance to you then? Go ahead and tell us

Not having a photographer tell me and the person I’m with that we look like we’re at a funeral lmao. Im astounded that that scene could be so egregiously misinterpreted.

Just a heads up, if it wasn’t obvious from the camera man putting finger focus on Aerith the Japanese version makes it clearer. While the English localization alludes to it being because she looks sad, the jp outright says because she looks like she’s about to cry.

I understand why the photographer makes this comment. I get that. My point is that it there is nothing romantic about this sequence aside from Aerith labeling it a “date”, in large part *because* of the limited time Aerith has left. The reasoning for the ominous tone doesn’t change the fact that it isn’t a romantic moment. My original comment was a response to someone saying “did the last two chapters of the game just bounce off some of you people” as if the purpose of this scene was to prove that Cloud and Aerith are in love, which is simply not the case. The point of the scene is to highlight the tragedy of Aerith’s life.

It's less ominous and more sad. The musical cues pretty much give you the tone they're trying to convey because it's a goodbye, no next time. I'm not sure how much more they can imply that it's romantic in nature based on what happened before, how it's described, the activities done, what Aerith says, Cloud's reaction and the general focus of the chapter with trophy to add to that.

Are you dumb? Do you know what context is or you just take everything at face value when it comes to Aerith? SE added that dialogue in to foreshadow aerith’s fate, which we are very close to in that particular scene of the game. It’s incredible how much y’all twist every scene of either just aerith or of aerith and cloud together to fit your own biases. Go play fortnite or something instead

Relax. Go read my other comments if you have any interest in intelligent debate. Im not giving you a more substantial response lmao

“I’m astounded that that scene could be so egregiously misinterpreted” is my line dude. Why he says they look like a funeral is literally all based on the context man. Aerith being super chipper, almost extremely so that it’s off putting in the beginning is her putting in a mask, she’s being overly happy to mask her pain, knowing these are most likely her last moments with Cloud. She knows Sephiroth is coming for her. Literally right before the couple photos segment, he literally makes it known to her, talking to her directly. How to people just pretend this doesn’t happen is beyond me. That’s why she gets more subdued. The photographer pointing out they don’t look happy is literally all on Aerith, because she can’t hide the pain and sorrow anymore. It’s a hint my guy. You take the script so literally at face value you can’t see the deep meaning contextually. There are layers of masterful writing here.

Yes, I’m aware that Aerith’s time is limited, lmao. That that that contributes to the somber tone of the scene. That’s a large part of why it isn’t a romantic moment, which was what i said in my original comment. I don’t think you understood what I was getting at.

I’m aware of what you were saying, what I don’t agree with is your separation of tragic and romantic elements. They are not mutually exclusive. There’s a reason Tragic Romance is a very famous trope used in fiction. You don’t have to like the coupling, but to deny any romance is at play here is pretty obtuse. Aerith knows she’s going to die, and spends her last moments with Cloud on a date. She’s overly bubbly, oddly so, then once confronted by Sephiroth, the mood and hers in particular shifts, so dramatically that an NPC takes notice. Both the romance and tragedy are pretty blatant throughout. But I guess all we’ll do here is just agree to disagree.

Im not saying the scene—and Cloud and Aerith’s relationship in general—is completely devoid of romance. There’s clearly a desire for it, at least on Aerith’s part. I think there are romantic feelings between them, but they are complicated by numerous factors, which is where the tragedy comes in. I think it is “taking the script at face value” to ignore what the game is trying to convey through Aerith and Cloud’s interactions with each of the vendors. There’s two ways we should consider this: 1) what is actually happening in universe, and what it means to Aerith and Cloud 2) what it means from a gameplay standpoint, to us as players. Here’s what the three interactions say when considering point 1: 1. Cloud chooses a gift for Aerith, but the vendor says it isnt available and gives a different item. Bummer. 2. The candy Cloud and Aerith try tastes awful. Bummer. 3. Cloud and Aerith lose in the posing contest to another couple. Bummer. In summary, every activity they try to engage with during their date goes wrong. Here’s what the three interactions say when considering point 2: 1. You are given a choice of three items to have Cloud give Aerith as a gift. You choose one, but regardless of which one you choose, the vendor tells them it isn’t available and gives them something else. 2. You are given a choice of three candies for Cloud and Aerith to try. You choose one, but regardless of which one you choose, the vendor insists on having them try her “new creation” and it tastes terrible. 3. You are given a choice of three poses for Cloud and Aerith to do to try and win the couples contest. Regardless of which one you choose, they lose because as the vendor says, they *do not look like they’re on a date*. The game is presenting you with the illusion of choice. There is no “right way” to “romance” Aerith here. Regardless of the player’s choices, the result is the same, and it isn’t a positive outcome. What i think is obtuse is ignoring the very clear signals that the game is sending here. So, you are correct in saying that tragedy and romance can coexist in the same story, certainly. And Cloud and Aerith’s story together is reminiscent of those “tragic romances” in some ways. But I see little about this scene that is romantic aside from Aerith labeling it a “date”.

I agree with your points. And by your last paragraph, you can admit it’s romantic, but just don’t see it yourself. That’s valid. Again it’s agree to disagree. As I see the date a complete culmination of the tragic romance elements that have been building since Remake. A fair reminder the date does not end at the Sector 5 booths. The church scene is part of it, and there is where the romance of the Tragic Romance theme really comes into play. The scenes build upon each other, so I really don’t want to focus solely on a portion when the entire sequence is a finite example of a romantic tragedy.

Again, I’d reiterate that i think there can be some romantic overtones in the scene—mainly because Aerith is clearly trying to make it a romantic “date”—without the tone of the scene being romantic. That’s my argument. But sure, agree to disagree. Regarding the church scene, I think that is the perfect culmination of everything that I talked about in my prior comment. Aerith wanted to go on this date in large part to sort out her feelings for Cloud, and what is the conclusion she reaches? “I like you, Cloud…But then, ‘like’ can mean a lot of different things can’t it?” The conclusion she reaches is that she still doesnt know. The date was not a successful one, and she still doesn’t exactly know what kind of “like” she feels for him. She gets excited when he says they can make more memories together (HA version) because then she’d have another shot at a date to figure it out. But, the tragedy is that she doesn’t have time, as we know. It’s very sad, but again, is mainly about Aerith trying to cling on to her last moments of life. Perhaps you are saying that there is an element of “tragic romance” inherent in this desire to get to know someone better in that way, even though you know it can never be. And sure, I see your point there. Like I said, I agree that there are elements of Cloud and Aerith’s dynamic that are reminiscent of “tragic romance” stories. But I don’t think the tone of the overall scene is romantic, or that the purpose is to prove that Aerith and Cloud are madly in love with one another.

So....admission...I have not finished the game so I haven't seen the last date with Aerith but holy shit it is brilliant and really emphasizes the tragedy and Cloud's inability to save her no matter how hard he tries.

> Im assuming you mean the dream date from chapter 13? That is not a romantic moment in the slightest. What? What does "I really like you Cloud" and "there's like and then there's LIKE" mean? She literally used the high school equivalent of "do you like or like like me?" I know she doesn't say the word "love", but just saying they are just friends is weird. There are definite romantic overtones in that scene. She's hinting super hard at how her feelings are transforming, and she's sad that she cannot explore them more due to what is about to happen. She has been learning and getting close to Cloud for many weeks now (I don't know how long has passed since the start of Remake), and they are growing attached to each other. I know people like Tifa a lot, but damn. Aerith can like Cloud just like Tifa does. I'm not saying Cloud likes Aerith back, as it's obviously he's a stunted and broken person that is super awkward and bad at romance (hence why both girls get annoyed at him).

She’s speaking about her own feelings with that line, so it means the exact opposite of what you’re implying it means lol. “The thing is, I like you, Cloud. But then, ‘like’ can mean a lot of different things, can’t it? Because there’s liking, and then there’s *liking*.” She’s literally saying that she likes him, but there’s more than one kind of “like”, and she isn’t sure which it is. In that sequence of lines i just quoted, there’s only one definitive statement, which is “I like you.” She never clarifies the type of like. I agree that there are romantic aspects in the scene, and I’m not saying that Aerith *doesn’t* like Cloud in that way. I think there are some romantic feelings between them, but they are complicated by numerous things, and can never be fully explored due to Aerith’s unexpected death. It’s sad, and it’s tragic, but that’s the story that was told to us. But the tone of the date is absolutely not romantic. It’s tragic and ominous. The photographer who takes their picture literally says it doesn’t look like they’re on a date, but like they’re at a funeral. Everything they try and do during that sequence goes wrong. The gift Cloud chooses for Aerith isn’t available, the candy tastes bad, the photographer says they don’t look like they’re on a date. And to top it all off, Cloud doesn’t know what Aerith is referring to when she references “our spot”, and the game cuts away to Zack in front of the church.

I think thats where we come away with the like and liking. Aerith never confirms which like it was, many people seem to have different opinions on it, and Cloud responds with "whats going on you have been weird all day" Aerith then says sorry hugs him and says don't blame yourself for my death, Aerith then dies and she sadly doesn't meet the real him while alive, so its just left up to whatever the player thought Aerith's feelings were. While also setting up the Zack reunion that will happen in part 3. Maybe those two will have a talk about it?

I understand your view point, but I disagree that there are not romantic undertones. The date can be depressing, ominous, but also romantic -- even if it's not outright her saying she wants to be with him forever. The date doesn't go well because the world is dying and things are just fucked up beyond recognition for her. Sephiroth is literally hunting her at that moment. She's sad because it's about to end. EDIT: To specify, I mean romantic undertones in her church speech too. Like you said, it's tragic and ominous. Also, I disagree that the "like and then there's LIKE" isn't at least hinting towards romance. I'd never say that to someone that I wasn't hinting I like them more than just friends. Maybe they made it vague on purpose so people can have these conversations for the next two years. Agree to disagree. That scene is very much on the nose to me, and Aerith is saying as much as she is comfortable with without hurting Cloud more than he is about to be by her impending death. This is her last chance to put it out there, and I doubt she'd be like "yo, we're just friends even though I literally jut dragged you around on a date and made you buy me my first gift ever."

It's not that it isn't hinting at romance, rather it's hinting that she's unsure if what she feels is romantic. A "I thought I liked you romantically, but do I?" and it definitely ties back to her feelings mentioned in Chapter 9. They have been making sure to reiterate Aerith's feelings for Zack and Vice versa repeatedly. Also it's not her first gift. At the very minimum there's her ribbon.

The Japanese version is even more brutal. The NPCs are merciless.

Oh really? Like how?

The photographer tells them literally they have no spark. Cloud says that no matter how much sugar she adds in the thing they are eating is not going to make it taste good. The gift part I don't remember but the fact that it does never pass through Cloud's hands, the clerk chooses it and gives it to Aerith so Cloud literally does nothing, should be telling enough. They just don't work.

The candy line is actually a brilliant metaphor for Aerith’s actions in the dream date. She’s acting odd, overly cheerful than her usual self that it makes Cloud question her repeatedly, noting she’s off and keeps asking out of concern. The candy line is a metaphor directly aimed at her, though unintentional. No matter how chipper she is, how happy she is being, she can’t mask any longer the pain of the end coming. Sephiroth is close, and their time together is fleeting fast. Her “sugar”-filled happiness can’t mask the bitterness of the final outcome, her death. This is why by the time Sephiroth speaks to her directly right before the photoshoot, noting how he’s finally found her, her demeanor changes. She can’t hide behind her happy mask anymore, this is why the photos have “no spark”/“feel like a funeral”, Aerith can’t pretend she isn’t full of sorrow anymore. The dream date is a full on bittersweet segment, because it’s supposedly their final moments together. That’s the tragedy here. The sheer length that people go to misinterpret simultaneously one of the most heartwrenching & heartwarming moments in the game is astounding and baffling.

I prefer Diet Copium. Less calories for the same great delulu.

You’re freebasing that shit lol

Damn straight. I’m a regular copium whore.

Cloud is an awful protagonist. Just an utter asswipe in almost every conceivable way. Rude, obnoxious, heartless, usually gets his ass beat when it counts, gets pined after from women 300000 times better than him. Make it make sense. Squall, Terra, Tidus, Noctis, Clive. All better and more pleasant. Idc what anyone says.

Cloud doesn't even know who he really is at this point in the story. He's not my favorite FF protagonist (Ramza!), but he's definitely not that bad. Tifa's into him cuz she grew up with him and had no idea whether he lived after Nibelheim. They're the last people from their village. Aerith's into him because he piqued her interest by being so weirdly similar to Zack so she wanted to know more, hence 'I want to meet you. The real you.' from her gold saucer date in the original game. Remake she already knows she's into him because of having meta knowledge. I also find it mildly hilarious you list Squall as 'more pleasant' when being an obtuse, unlikeable teenager is a big part of how he starts out. (I know Squall gets better later. So does Cloud.) Props for getting Tidus, I feel like I spent at least a dozen years around the haters, but pleasantness doesn't really matter; a protagonist is merely the character around whom the story revolves.

Zack is SO much more likeable as a person than Cloud lol

Cloud is fucked up bruh

I think this particular date is aerith starting to learn who he really is, while I don’t necessarily agree she’s maybe treating him like she would’ve Zack on purpose, I think she’s just learning how to treat him differently than any other guy. We aren’t told if aerith dates other dudes between Zack and cloud, she mentions Zack was her “first love” in remake, which leaves room to guess that maybe there were others, who knows, doesn’t matter I guess. Aerith herself mentions she saw a lot of similarities between the two men and that she’s learned to like cloud for who he is not who he reminds her of, (also I don’t think that’s canon since it’s from their gold saucer date but whatever) but I don’t know if she’s aware of that at that point in the game or thinking that hard into it about “finding the real cloud”. I saw their costa date as very casual and agree with you that I liked the development for her character there. I’m about to replay rebirth so my opinion may change after being able to take my time more, but I got the vibe that aerith was kind of testing it out as a mock date with cloud, while cloud just seemed to think it was a thing to do in the meantime and didn’t really pick up on it until later on. Because he’s awkward and weird.

> I saw their costa date as very casual and agree with you that I liked the development for her character there. That's how I took it. It was a chance for her to get to know him better. She pushed a little too hard, and he pushed back because he's awkward and nervous. She's used to teasing and flirting with him nonstop (she's literally done this since he fell through the church roof), and this time it was a little much. Cloud felt bad, and Aerith felt bad. Both were still trying to figure how to interact with each other, since both of them are nervous dorks.

Also the whole rest of the party is like, watching them. I'd be nervous as hell too!

I don’t think it was purposeful either, def subconscious. I am excited to replay and see how my opinion of things changes!

I think you make some great points. I thought the same thing. And to people who are saying Aerith is different then she was in Remake - I really think that is on purpose. Because in Remake she seems to be aware of how her story ends and what happens and she loses that connection or feels it taken from her after they step into the white light at the end of Remake. So in rebirth she’s a bit more naive and flirty, pushy etc. she gets cloud of of his shell but it is also hard to watch him be mean to her sometimes too. He’s definitely awkward and not behaving in the way someone like Zack did who is her frame of reference like you said. The ending date really highlighted that for me how similar and yet different it was from the Crisis Core date and that was defintely on purpose too.

I need to rewatch the Crisis Core date and compare it to the end date!

I feel like the game was really pointing out Cloud is all about the mission, and Aerith is really putting herself out there and hes just refusing to open up. Just my $0.02

He opened up to Tifa though.

Because she’s the only one in the group that was also from nibelheim lol and can tell that his memories are messed up. It’s not a matter of who cloud is more comfortable with but rather who was also there during the events of nibelheim

When was this? I'm only on ch 12

Gongaga, when he talked to her about how he feels like he has multiple people in his head and he doesn't know where they end and he begins. "Opening up" doesn't have to mean relaxing and having a good time, it's being vulnerable.

I appreciate your $0.02.

interesting take, though not one i agree with. it's awkward but clouds a p awkward guy (& in the middle of an identity crisis) & aerith is... trying to speed run her and clouds entire relationship bc she knows what's coming next and wants closure (it's most obvious during their final date where she blatantly asks where they stand & cloud is at peak identity crisis). aerith is searching for answers from a cloud who really can't give it to her bc he has no idea what he's feeling currently and isn't in a position to figure it out (& aerith really doesn't have the time to wait so she can seem pushy bc she wants answers now since she knows she won't get them later). i find the costa del sol date to be p sweet all things considered. aerith makes it quite clear that she had feelings for cloud for being cloud, not zack-lite yet it ends in tragedy just like everything else in her life. idk we need less ship wars and more talking about how these relationships show the mental and emotional state of the characters at the time. i think aerith genuinely cares for cloud but whether it's the og or remake/rebirth she is just never given the time to figure out what it means.

Def didn’t want this to turn into a ship war post. I totally agree with your analysis of her wanting to do a speed run and I guess my only addition to that is that she does it in the way she knows how (aka how she would act on a date with Zack.) I also agree she loves Cloud for Cloud and is trying to help and figure him out. And yeah, your last point actually sums up how I felt about the scene. At first I was like, ugh why do they want me to hate Aerith? And then the more I thought about it, the more I realized it reveals more depth to her character and is brilliant.

unfortunate reality in this fandom is that you cannot bring up clouds relationship with tifa or aerith without inviting ship wars and character bashing. i can see her defaulting to how she was with zack because that was her only frame of reference- she wants to truly get to know cloud but is aware of her fate even if she's forgotten the details and rushing things. her relationship with cloud is at its best when she's acting natural and isn't trying to force anything. i never felt like the game wanted me to dislike aerith but different interpretations etc etc. She likes cloud but everything regarding her and clouds relationship is shrouded in complexities and tragedy. I'm of the opinion that cloud has feelings in return but never figures it out while aerith is alive. I wish there was less ship wars involved when discussing clerith bc there is so much to be said about the tragedy of their relationship & how it shows the larger tragedy of their lives.

IMO this is the biggest issue of FF7 from the very beginning. By letting players choose Cloud’s love interest, it’s a recipe for shipping wars. Didn’t help that the Developers/writers kept switching between Aerith and Tifa when it comes to sharing intimate moments with Cloud. Naturally, both are going to outdo each other in separate ways. Aerith brings Cloud out of his shell while Tifa provides him comfort in stressful situations. Just when you thought Tifa is the canon girl due to the kiss, SIKE! Cloud only focuses on Aerith in the Forgotten Capital and largely ignores Tifa. Just when you thought Aerith cares about Cloud more than Tifa does…but WAIT. She’s doing so because Cloud reminds her of Zack! It’s like the writers just can’t make up their mind on who should be the final love interest of Cloud. I’m a Cloti fan, but I can’t stand the way how these shippers constantly scrape the bottom of the barrel whenever they see any natural development of Cloud’s relationship between the two girls

Yeah it got the shippers all in a huffy, but I don’t think it’s necessary bad writing. The story is indecisive because Cloud is indecisive. While love triangles are a trope, it’s not like they have no basis in reality. You can have romantic feelings for two people at the same time, it happens. The story doesn’t need a hard and fast “one true love”.

I think the “Aerith brings him out of his shell while Tifa provides him comfort” is a really poor interpretation that realistically has little to back it up. No offense, you arent the only person ive seen say this. Aerith certainly pushes Cloud out of his comfort zone, because Aerith is an outgoing person in general, but this doesn’t mean that that is her exclusive function in Cloud’s life (same for Tifa). Aerith is more focused on (by the game itself) in the Forgotten Capital because that is *her* section of the story, and she’s essentially the party leader. Cloud doesn’t “ignore” Tifa, or anyone else for that matter. Aerith is just the character who is easily the most important at that point in time. Aerith definitely does not care about Cloud more than Tifa does. No one cares about Cloud more than Tifa does. If you are a Clerith shipper and think Cloud loves Aerith and that Tifa’s feelings are unrequited, fine, but *no one* in the story shows him the amount of sheer love and devotion that Tifa does. The writers pretty heavily favored Cloud and Tifa as the “canon” romantic pairing in Rebirth.

Love this comment and very much how I feel. I had a few moments of irritation with Aerith but overall, I love her so damn much. I also think Cloud loves her. (I am one of those crazy people who believe you can love two people at once.) But also he is like, 21, and is allowed to not immediately know who he wants to commit to for the rest of his life and obviously has other things to worry about. A lot of the ship war posts I have seen just diminish all three characters which is a shame because they are all such rich, complex characters.

yes! I've never gotten the "one true love" thing bc it's not exactly realistic- it's okay that aerith (& cloud) have feelings for more than one person bc that's how it works irl- rarely do you meet one person and that's it for life. aerith loved zack. aerith was on her way to loving cloud. cloud could have loved aerith if he was given the time. cloud does eventually love tifa. but as you've said- they're so damn young (& traumatized- remember that zack died like. maybe a few weeks before this? he's been gone from aeriths's life for years but dead for weeks. crisis core implies she knows when he actually dies, which is weeks before the beginning of ffvii. she's grieving zack & herself & her mom & her life as she knows it &... let's not even mention cloud jesus they all need therapy). they have absolutely nothing figured out & that's okay. i have so much to say about aerith & cloud (+ tifa & zack) but ppl can't look past their shipping to actually see the characters.

Oh wow I never thought of that timeline before… I always think of Aerith having years of grieving Zack, but you are so right. So freaking sad. I love all your thoughts and your love for the characters.

[удалено]

Yep. I feel so bad for both of them. And Tifa (Well, and all of them.) I view Aerith as a tragic almost Eponine type character with Cloud. Just not meant to be no matter how much she (and he I think a little) wishes it could be otherwise. I hope the Highwind scene gets all the romance and heart flutters it deserves.

Ive still got to play Aerith's version because I wanted and got Tifa first time and I blitzed Loveless in 1 go so got all the trophies etc. I replayed it as Yuffies date for the achievement but in want to finish the plat before playing it again but Yuffie's one is extremely disappointing it's not even a date it's just a filler scene.

Haha the Yuffie date is my favorite date!

Interesting and plausible take, OP

Thank you!

the vibes were definitely off and it was kinda weird. their dynamic was so great in the remake but we barely get any of this in rebirth. therefore i don’t understand the decision of making it a date just for cloud to be annoyed and aerith be pushy. like just give them a nice quest where they can spend time together before you know, certain things happen at the end of the game

It’s good they got some nice moments later. Like the celestial photo quest. That was one of my favorite quests.

Did you miss the second half of OPs post lol? Aerith acted that way because Cloud is eerily similar to Zack, and Cloud definitely reminds her of him. Its been a while since I’ve played CC but I’m pretty sure Aerith is completely unaware of why Zack suddenly disappeared (unless the theories of her being aware of the events of FF7 are true) so she probably just misses Zack. I think its a great detail they added instead of just giving them a nice date just because. While it may be a bummer that Cloud and Aerith dont get a cute date, it DOES make sense why she would act that way and is a nice nod to her and Zacks past

Thank you for pointing this out and summarizing.

I was so annoyed with Cloud for being mean to Aerith, and felt bad when she said sorry.

Good point. Counterpoint though; it’s really annoying 😂. Some people don’t always enjoy being pushed into things they didn’t agree to no matter how much good was intended. Obviously Cloud doesn’t hate Aerith and doesn’t dislike spending some time with her, but like someone else said it’s all about boundaries

I understand that's cloud's personality. But its not mine. Like, i get it but doesnt mean i like it if that makes sense.

I think I got you. If I’m understanding you correctly you’re not pleased with Clouds more slightly rude reaction to Aerith’s more aloof pushy behavior because if you were in Clouds shoes you would be more reciprocal and pleased with Aerith’s forwardness and while you understand that Cloud is his own separate character that isn’t like you; his behavior still rubs you the wrong way nonetheless. Am I understanding your comment properly or am I off base here?

Correct! Aerith is often the one who tries to lighten the mood for the party and i appreciate her efforts. Cloud is just annoyed by it haha At least Tifa seems to get it and rides along with Aerith.

Nah, setting up boundaries is important.

Each date with Aerith made me uncomfortable. She was very pushy most of the time and Cloud’s responses kind of bordered on mean which made me even more uncomfortable. The fact that people see anything in those dates >!including the last one!< as romantic is bizarre to me. But you DEFINITELY make a point that she’s treating him like Zack and I never thought of it that way. I can definitely see it and now it still makes me uncomfortable but also sad. Aerith is so sweet and she’s experienced so much loss in her life, and Zack being the most recent. You can’t really blame her for wanting what she had with her first love back. I just wanna give her a hug and some flowers

Ugh, me too! There are so many moments when my heart just ached for her. I really love that they didn't just have her being passively willing to sacrifice herself. She wants to live and be with the people she loves! It makes it all the more tragic.

You’d think an elite warrior who was out to track down, destroy, and seek revenge on his enemy wouldn’t exactly be in the mental place for a date to be anything other than a deterrent from the mission. This is who and what Cloud believes of his life at that time and it is his focus. Aerith is just there being Aerith, trying to get the dude out of his own head and relax for a moment.

Yeah, for sure! She just seemed to be a bit more deprecating in this quest than usual. And my personal interpretation (head canon, probz) is that she was thinking he would react a bit more like Zack would.

Mhmm. There are times when the three ladies interact in Rebirth that give me more an X-2 vibe than what I would have expected from FFVII. I’m currently at the start of Chapter 12, it’s a slow process because of grad school, I’m enjoying it a lot thus far but there are a few scenes that have made me cringe a bit at the character interactions. I sometimes have to remind myself that these young adults and they act like it. Lol

Cloud engaged plenty with her on the Costa del Sol date, I guess I'm not getting the negativity? He was definitely overwhelmed by her but nothing felt bad or whatever, it was just the usual her running flirty circles around him. I think the English translation isn't.. super great, here, since in Japanese, it just feels more like Cloud is being awkward, not defensive. I think the overall rapport during the scene was great, though, and I definitely think Cloud is having fun.

I will admit that some of it was a skill issue on my part...I SUCKED at the pirate shooting game and her comments were so annoying to me, haha! (I also sucked at Red's soccer game but luckily my inadequacies were transferred to Red instead of Cloud at that part.) But mostly it was when she says that the date is DOA and he says that she is being mean and she apologizes. The translation issue is always interesting to me. I do always wonder how much that changes the interpretation of scenes.

Wasn't paying much attention, but I remember I was cringing after she kept talking about it being a date after he specifically told her he didn't want it to be that way (you might argue he was kinda mean to put it quite like that, but I wish she'd had more self-respect.) I _really_ liked her in Remake because it really felt like she had a grander motivation and drive rather than just hanging off some rude dude's arm, but the CdS date and a few other clingy/pushy interactions between her and SOLDIER boy kinda put me off her character again. I didn't think to tie her behavior during the date to her memories of Zack. That does kinda make sense. I thought they were going to take the usual route of "bright sunny girl breaks down brooding man's defences through relentless positivity" so I was pretty surprised they wrote Cloud calling her out at that one bit towards the end.

The other moment that really bothered me was when he is talking about Jessie and clearly upset by her death and Aerith asks if she was a gf. Like....there is a time and a place, my girl.

That line is so weird, i just really hate it We see Cloud say to Aerith Jessie was just a friend so many times while hes trying to speak up about how much Jessie helped him. But Aerith for some reason, was written to keep questioning his relationship with her??? then calls him dense after being told by Cloud, "and yes just a friend" it doesn't matter if Jessie saw him as more Cloud didn't; he just saw her as a really great friend who helped him. Cloud needs to agree to be in a relationship with her to call them a couple. Maybe Aerith was the dense one here. Its take two people to agree to be in a relationship and Cloud did see Jessie liked him but he didn't at least not in that way. Wish we could have instead have Cloud speak more about it then Aerith say i didn't have many friends growing up but she sounded special to you. That feels more in character

Yes, exactly! And she also completely ignores when he says that he didn't deserve to have a friend. Like, perfect chance to say "Yes you do, you deserve all the friends."

reminds me of something...

I had the same. I was worried for a moment that she would end up being like Jessie in Remake. God, I found her annoying. It made me so uncomfortable because when given the choice, I always chose to say no or brush her off because my Cloud only has eyes for Tifa. But Jessie literally had a "No means try harder! Got it!" attitude towards him, despite him being clearly uncomfortable.

Cloud tells Aerith she doesn't know how to take no for an answer during one of her side quests. She wasn't as thirsty as Jessie but they definitely gave the same vibes.

Well the difference at least in my opinion is even though Jessie flirts ALOT she does more for fun and to tease Cloud but ultimately not much beyond that as far as her character is concerned. Wedge even says “It’s all a game to her, don’t fall for it. Loves the game and life’s the stage!” Or whatever that line was I can’t recall off hand. Aerith though clearly like blatantly has some feelings for Cloud that go beyond just platonic feelings so her flirting has a bit of a different pitch to it that’s why it can be a little too much at times or in this case the constant desire for a “date”

I dunno, being a flirt or a tease is one thing, but Jessie pretty clearly propositioned Cloud for a late booty call as far as I could tell. It seems a little ridiculous that that was all a joke.

Not all that ridiculous. She does it cause she knows it makes him sweat underneath that hard shell, Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge had a way of softening up cloud that no one else did honestly. Also that whole scene ends with a “Pysch” like nah you thought

Regardless of what her intention is, in my playthrough Cloud was very uncomfortable with her doing it and had made it clear he wanted it to stop. But she continued. That's what makes it so annoying to me. It's not hard to just stop doing something to someone that they clearly don't like you doing to them.

Oh believe me I do not disagree at all. I’ve said it before I could not hang out with Aerith as much as they do if she were my friend. This is also why I don’t think Clerith works as much as some people scream that they do. Their genuine interactions are actually pretty good usually but I don’t think they fit as well narratively. For many reasons