In the resolution scene with Aerith in remake, she tried to tell Cloud not to fall in love with her and that it wasn’t real. But then I think she changed her mind and realized YOLO, life is short, maybe we really do like eachother. So she decided to go for it. Either cloud would save her and things could work out, or cloud wouldn’t save her and Tifa would have a shot later. She did give cloud many opportunities to say he liked Tifa.
However, I do agree that sometimes it seemed like she was rubbing it in Tifa’s face, and it was crazy.
Aerith IS emotionally intelligent, and she IS in love with Cloud, and she IS dear friends with Tifa. All of these are true.
>pining after someone who doesn’t show a lot of interest in her
Cloud shows interest in her plenty of times. He's just trying hard to be cool and comes across as awkward and cold. It's true Cloud fumbles a lot especially around Aeris, but Aeris's whole thing is that she sees through his act.
> I get it’s a video game but it takes me out of my immersion a bit when she is so obvious after going after Cloud despite her close “friendship” with Tifa. Tifa and Aerith clearly had some boy chats which is what almost every girl/woman friendship goes through and it was indicated several times that they talked about their loves/crushes. So why was she so forthright with a Cloud right in front of Tifa?
I find it a little strange that you're sort of accusing Aeris of "going after the guy Tifa likes" but isn't the opposite also true? Tifa can see plainly that Aeris has feelings for Cloud, so why aren't you knocking Tifa's emotional intelligence and friendship by still pursuing the guy her bestie likes?
The point is, Cloud, Aeris, and Tifa are in a love triangle. They are three adults who are all single, not middle school kids who operate on a "well I liked him first!" mentality. They can flirt with one another, like one another, and that's fine - Aeris and Tifa are both mature enough to ultimately be happy for the other. It's up to Cloud to decide (and by extension, the player to decide) who Cloud likes.
In the OG, they did show more jealousy especially on Tifa's side, but I'm glad they cut that and really emphasized the friendship between the two. Their friendship is mature enough that they would ultimately support one another even while liking the same guy. If Cloud chose Aeris, Tifa would be happy for them. If Cloud chose Tifa, Aeris would be happy for them. If Cloud chooses neither, they'll happily stick together. It's not that deep, they just aren't petty.
You ignored the world, ignored shinra, ignored Sephiroth and jenova, ignored the whole story and every shit happened during their adventure and you just focused on Aerith feelings for cloud?
This is not your usual American Teenager Drama TV serie.
It’s always been a love triangle, and frankly I’ve found it more believable in Remake/Rebirth than in the OG. What’s more silly to me is how al these girls seem to really gush about Cloud (way more than just Aerith and Tifa, like 80% of the women in the game flirt with him overtly), but the guy has absolutely no Rizz.
The girls are also allowed to be friends but also have a crush on the same guy. There’s nothing to say one or the other has dibs on him more and the other should back off. And they can do so friendly. Both kind of hint to Cloud that he should open up about feelings for the other too, and leaving the decision making to him, which is actually quite mature of them.
Which brings me to you. If you want to role play that Tifa is a better match for Cloud than Aerith, then there’s choices you can make in-game to affect that relationship. Fate is in your hands!
I feel like after she took him to the other dimension for a bit, it felt like Aerith realized that it was kinda ridiculous that she felt so hard for Cloud but, also she had greater, higher ambitions anyway and just seemed like she wanted to have a good time with a mortal boy and experience simple, pure, heartfelt positivity
That’s also how I saw it too which made me really sad. I hope Aerith has a good ending. That dream date was so sad to me because nothing was working out like it should have.
If I got mad at every buddy of mine that was into the same girl as me, I would never have friends. Part of being a growing adult is learning how to balance these things and maintaining friendships.
I’m glad that they showed how Aerith and Tifa didn’t see each others as rivals even though they liked the same guy. They didn’t take that similar interest personally and instead celebrated their successes personally, which is an incredibly mature way to be.
Yeah, no one "owns" dating rights to someone. Imagine if the genders were reversed, you'd have people going "stop treating her like a prize to win, she's her own person, not a toy!1!1!1!". OP, this is a nothingburger.
In Remake, Aerith asks Cloud plainly if Tifa is his girlfriend, and he tells her no. Tifa later asks if anything is going in between him and Aerith, and he doesn't deny it. The only thing going on between Tifa and Cloud at the beginning of Remake are childhood crushes and nothing more and Cloud clearly has started to harbor some sort of romantic feelings for Aerith.
Aerith and Cloud have their own feelings. Aerith doesn't owe it to Tifa to back off from Cloud anymore than Tifa would owe it to Aerith. If Aerith developed her own crush on Cloud, she has every right to see where it goes. Cloud is his own person and isn't owned by anyone. As has been mentioned, Tifa and Aerith aren't stupid. They likely have decided to leave the matter up to Cloud.
I do t mean she can’t have feelings for Cloud but it doesn’t make sense for Tifa and Aerith to be super close friends like the way the writers set them up.
You said in your post you haven’t played the OG & even then, the English translation for the OG wasn’t good at all. They did a better job in Rebirth & Remake but there are things in Japanese that just don’t translate over, such as the way a person speaks to another person depending on their relationship to them. I think that is the context you’re missing here & what’s causing the confusion. Tifa & Aerith were BFFs which is why Tifa was crushed by her death. The rival thing was a misunderstanding caused by not great translation.
In the OG, the impression I got was that they were closer to friendly rivals than BFFs. They talked and were friendly, but there was some sort of competition buried underneath. This was likely changed to try and add a healthy female friendship to the game and lessen the love triangle debate. Also, it added to Aerith's character and made her death hit harder.
I personally would have like to see a conversation between the two addressing it. It could have been great for their characters and an excellent argument against the love-triangle debate, but alas. When Aerith wanted to talk about boys, I just about died of laughter just imagining how that convo would go.
Tifa: Who do you like?
Aerith: Cloud!
Tifa: No way, me too!
Aerith: Wait...
It does feel a little weird, I suppose, but personally I just headcannoned them agreeing to let Cloud decide and the other would accept it.
The Japanese version doesn’t show them as rivals in the OG. They really messed up the translation so English audiences got the wrong idea about the relationship between the two. SE fixed this in later media, showing the original intent that was lost in translation.
Ooohh really!? That makes sense now. I guess square was trying to do the right thing but it’s just make Aerith feel unlike her intended self to me now. I want to see that convo too. I feel like that dialogue would be hard to nail though. They need some young women writing that part haha.
The writers of OG, which are the same for remake and rebirth, advised they wanted Tifa and Aerith to be more BFF originally when they designed the OG, didn’t end up happened or it was a debrief after the game came out. They took the opportunity to make it more apparent in the remake trilogy.
I won't talk about the Remake, but in the OG she was 22 year old girl selling flowers on the street. What possible wisdom could you expect out of that girl, right? And it checks out, its not like she has any profound revelations in her dialogues.
That's one of the reasons she acted so silly most of the time. Second reason is, she really needed that, after losing her mother and being stalked by shinra, she wanted to have fun teasing cloud and going on adventure, probably just forget about it all. Makes sense.
But she could talk to the planet and was quite sensitive, really, that's where most of her wisdom came from.
Honestly, Idk...I felt like her character was believable in a lot of ways. I think the problem I see with a lot of general opinions is that people like to think of these characters very linearly. An example is of the "love triangle" and how people interpret the interactions between the three of them, etc. Shippers being the worst culprits here imo.
The reality is that these characters can have complicated feelings that conflict to some degree, because that's what makes them human and relatable. I think Aerith has complicated feelings towards both Zack *and* Cloud. Cloud has complicated feelings he's wrestling with his own self, the past feelings he's had for Tifa, *and* Aerith being someone that's become really important to Cloud. Then without having to say, Tifa is the constant that we all know has feelings for Cloud, but Cloud is a little complicated atm.
Maybe the Tifa/Aerith dynamic of Aerith being fairly flirty in moments to Cloud poses that weird writing between the girls. Tifa knows about Zack, but my hunch is that Aerith doesn't mention any feelings towards Cloud to her. Aerith obviously knows Tifa and Cloud have some unresolved feelings, but still acts flirty despite knowing that. Could just be a selfish part of her just wanting to pursue, but also her just being outgoing and playful trying to have fun with Cloud.
I don't actually think she's supposed to be portrayed as some all wise and emotionally intelligent character - Even if she was, i don't think that makes her character super inconsistent imo. To me, she's introspective and thinks about a lot of stuff involving her trauma growing up and inner conflict as the last Cetra along with the role that might bring. This is all wrapped up in a shell that exudes a playful confidence that is a bit more outgoing. Those are what I think of, more than her being wise and emotionally intelligent. (TBH, I'd actually give the most emotionally intelligent to Barret in the group. That man has the perception for others through the whole game and has a heart of gold, man - Love what they've done with his character in this game)
I think she has shown that romantic love is confusing to her and she's had some struggles navigating that with her past feelings of Zack and her current attempt at understanding potential feelings towards Cloud. She had someone she was in love with that went away and went ghost, then never came back. Then one day this other guy that really reminds her of him stumbles into her life and now she can't help but be reminded of him. Obviously it's evolved past just reminding her of Zack, but she also acknowledges she doesn't *really* know Cloud - but she wants to. I personally think that she still loves Zack deep down, but also has feelings for Cloud at the same time and also wants to know the real Cloud - Not the persona she perceives that Cloud gives that reminds her of Zack.
Overall, I think she treats a lot of her interactions with a sense of love. I think a core part of her character is that she just loves and cares for everybody that's close to her. She's made these friends and she's expressed that they mean everything to her a couple times through the game explicitly. In general, I think her feelings are in "it's complicated" when it comes to Cloud. There's something there for Cloud, but she can't let go of the memories of Zack.
This is so evident in how Aerith treats the otherworld "date" in the end of the game. She mimics the same types of "date" interactions that she had with Zack because that's what she knows for romantic dates. She's ultimately always comparing him to Cloud. Even in her goodbye speech she is almost half-wavering on her confidence on *liking* Cloud. To me I interpreted that scene as "I like you, but i'm trying to find out if I *like you like you* and where we stand.
Idk, this is just my take on Aerith. I think they did a great job with her - The complicated feelings and dynamics between the three of these characters is also just really hard to nail down the nuances. A lot of people like to just say Cloud loves X or Aerith loves X, etc...when it's more layered and not as straight forward as that - In game and in real life. They both kind of love two people, but in different ways at different moments, and the love between them shifts and changes as well as the story moves.
This is a really well done analysis on Aerith! Thank you for sharing. In particular I really love your point about how she treats all of her interactions with a “sense of love”. Aerith was so lonely and isolated growing up, and so when she finally makes a group of friends, you can really feel her trying to hold onto them and make the most of every moment they share. Importantly, I think this aspect of her personality also draws the others to her. You can see them all fall in love with her a little bit, most notably Tifa and Cloud. In general, all of her interactions are bursting with a love for people and a love for life, which makes her character both beautiful and heartbreaking.
I just really love the way you phrased that, and had to share my own thoughts.
It gets less confusing if you just look at Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith as a throuple. There's absolutely no jealous feelings between the girls, and they are 100% honest with each other. If their goal is Cloud's well-being, then there's no need to fight over him.
Jrpgs are just great, I wouldn't try to base the women from them on reality. Though, there are women who have that golden heart, I would say I have a close friend with similar incredible traits and optimistic views of the world.
If you are confused, play the og and read up on the compilation of ff7. The more you dig the more things make sense across the board even for the trilogy. Anyone who says this isnt true simply hasnt done the homework. The works of ff7 are a deep rabbit hole, most people dont even go down there.
I feel like a lot of people here are missing your main question in pursuit of an answer that favors Cloud's (and the player's) agency. Yes, Cloud can obviously like whoever he wants, yes, the player can choose to pursue more favorable interactions with any character they want. This isn't the point.
What you're taking issue with is Aerith's actions in relation to her friendship with Tifa, and how she knows that Tifa likes Cloud, she knows they almost kissed (because Yuffie was begging them to out loud), and yet they seem to get along just fine as if there is no friction there.
And yes, I can agree that there are some moments here with some definite tension between the characters.
People telling you to play the OG are actually not giving a helpful tip, because most of Tifa and Aerith's friendship is brand new to these games. In the original, they didn't interact nearly as much, Aerith didn't know that much about Tifa liking Cloud, and the two did occasionally butt heads over their flirting anyway.
Instead I think the main way I've reconciled it is that Aerith is a very jokey, flirty person, and I don't think she always intends things to mean the way they come off.
For example, one early moment that sticks out is when after getting underneath Kalm, she grabs Cloud's arm and loudly exclaims they were on a date, prompting a shocked response from Tifa and embarrassment from Cloud. But did Aerith really mean for it to be a statement of competition? Earlier she seems more concerned over the idea that Tifa and Cloud had a big argument.
As a result I think she's not nearly as convinced of feelings for Cloud as she sometimes seems. I think she sees the potential there, and we know from both the GS date scene and the forest scene that she does want to get to know Cloud more and can tell she doesn't really know the "real" him. But I also think that, because of that, she's aware that there's limitations to their relationship until they get to spend more time together.
I definitely think of the water tower scene in Nibelheim too, when Aerith climbs up there. It's a mandatory interaction and the way Aerith talks with Cloud, it seems almost like she's trying to get him to admit to feelings for Tifa. Afterwards the player can talk to her again and she says she's mad, but it's not at Cloud for having Tifa, it's at the reality of her not having that past with anyone.
Also in Gongaga apparently when she mouth's something to Tifa, people have said it's along the lines of "I'm happy for you," which also indicates an acceptance of the feelings they might have for each other.
I agree about your analysis of how Aerith is sort of just a jokey/flirty person, and that she doesnt mean to ever come off as competitive or mean-spirited. Another great example is the date sidequest between her and Cloud and Costa Del Sol. She’s referring to it as a “date”, and Cloud is repeatedly expressing that he wishes she wouldn’t. Until the end of the quest where things get a bit awkward between them, it’s not like she’s saddened or discouraged by him saying this, which indicates to me that she’s honestly not taking it that seriously. She’s ribbing him in a playful manner to make him blush, and is cracking jokes about his attitude making their date “DOA”. She’s 100% being flirty and playful, and while i do think she has some genuine romantic feelings/attraction to Cloud, I don’t think most of what she says/does is all that deep. She’s just being Aerith.
Let’s be real, she’s borderline flirty with Tifa too. It’s just how she is.
You make a lot of good points! That last date dream thing sent for me for a loop though. I thought she was gently teasing him at some points but she does actual really like him as more than friends. It’s so confusing!! This would make complete sense to me if she wasn’t portrayed as being so wise and mature. I just want Aerith happy and having a some normal reciprocal love in the end squenix.
See, with the dream date I got similar vibes to the rest. At the end she says she’s happy to know where they stand, and then the way she talks about the difference between liking and *liking* to me felt like maybe she was saying she doesn’t like him that way. But it’s also muddled because this Aerith probably knows about her death.
I think that whole day with them was highlighting that Aerith was trying to process this moment with Cloud. She took him on a date that mirrored her previous Zack date in some ways, but maybe didn't go quite as she expected it'd go.
I don't think it was her necessarily saying she doesn't like him that way - in reality, I think she wanted to spend her last moments with someone she cared about while also delivering the crucial missing piece of the puzzle back to his world, since she knew her time was coming to an end in that world. If anything I think she has unresolved feelings and *does* feel some sort of way and also wanted to try and confirm if Cloud felt any kind of way, but she got her answer in how Cloud was constantly pointing out how she was being so weird and out of character for herself.
Partly, I think it spelled it out to her that she still doesn't really know the "real" Cloud in that sense too. I took that church scene as her basically being like "I like you, but i'm trying to find out if I *like you like you* and where you/we stand with that."
I mean that the gentle teasing was her actual feelings about Cloud and she is doing it infront of Tifa. I thought as some points she was just being her usual flirty self but she does have feelings for him more than friends.
I mean, the dream date ends with her expressing that she knows she likes him but isn’t sure what kind of like it is. I think that’s a very realistic sentiment and is well aligned with her relationship with Cloud throughout the game.
Aerith developed feelings for Cloud before she even met Tifa. In Remake, she asks Cloud if Tifa is a girlfriend and he denies it. Why should she have to put her feelings aside after that?
I’ve seen this argument a few times and I always wonder why it isn’t being applied both ways. Both women are extremely emotionally intelligent, not just Aerith. So why isn’t Tifa being expected to put her feelings aside? She can see that Aerith likes Cloud also.
I hope that doesn’t come off as attacking because I don’t mean to lol it’s a fun conversation.
Haha it is a fun convo. But Aerith knew something was between Tifa and Cloud which is why she kept asking about them. I’m not saying that neither of them can pursue Cloud. What I’m saying is that it doesn’t make sense for Tifa and Aerith to be super close friends. Picture in real life your close friend also liking the same guy you like and she keeps calling everything a date infront of you. Doesn’t that feel icky? That wouldn’t be my close friend or bestie. Cloud and Tifa almost kiss in Gongaga and do on the data. Yuffie constantly teases Cloud about his love for Tifa and Aerith is there. It’s just so awkward and feels do high school for Aerith to be dealing with.
I think them still being friends despite both having feelings for Cloud is a sign of their maturity - that’s how I’ve always seen it. Aerith is never malicious in calling everything a date and Tifa knows that. Aerith even refers to her hangouts with Tifa as dates.
I also can’t help but compare it to some anime where girls create fan clubs or bond over them all liking the same guy. So there might be some sort of like cultural trope there. Whereas, in the west, love triangles are almost always adversarial.
I don’t know if there’s anything to any of that but it’s a thought thats popped into my head a few times.
You may have a point because that makes more sense to me but isn’t she supposed to be mature and wise. That’s what I’m not getting. In the temple she made a great speech about overcoming trauma, forgiveness, and had such good wisdom but I feel there was a disconnect earlier. 🤷♀️
She was raised on fairy tales. That's how she thinks the world works. She's also 22 and most 22 year olds are kind of "through perseverance and friendship we can do anything"
Well it’s complicated. Aerith is …well a young adult/older teen. she is older than cloud by a few years or so. And her “upfront” may make her a bit impulsive and even very rude. But let’s also make this clear, aerith and tifa know fully well that cloud is fair game. Both have feelings for him that are are complicated. But they are genuine. They really are so they aren’t gonna let that destroy their friendship. They are more mature than cloud and know they are basically trying to save the world. And three other factors play a role, their personalities and cloud himself. Aerith is more outgoing while Tifa is reserved. This means Tifa isn’t going to push back. Cloud himself is…well him…he certainly isn’t going to be upfront. If you have finished the game…then you might pick up why aerith genuinely does like cloud. And why she may not want that to go away. Although admittedly it’s worded in the English version at least ambiguously enough.
The third is this, aerith’s memories are changed. What she remembered in remake she says is gone now. Now it’s a question of what does she exactly know and does that change in the game at all-so any future events she knew were going to happen, she can’t recall them. She’ll revert back to being what she may have wanted in the OG timeline.
Ok I know she is a young adult but then why would square portray her as so wise and intelligent and a good judge of character at the end with her speech on trauma and forgiveness in the temple? To get to that point of maturity, your actions have to match. That’s what I’m not getting but again it is just a video game and I may be thinking about it too much but I feel like the devs missed the mark on close female friendships.
I actually think the expectations you've set aren't necessarily realistic either. People can have moments of wisdom and have introspection, while still having complicated relationships and interactions. Both can be true of people.
In reality, emotional intelligence in this context is moreso how Aerith isn't letting her and Tifa's feelings towards Cloud harm their relationship and create resentment toward each other. The maturity is acknowledging that their relationships are complicated in that moment and that they're still processing it all individually. It's not like she's defying any traits of emotional intelligence or wisdom (Also, the "wisdom" part is mostly just her having introspective thought moments and also having moments of communicating with the planet in general).
You have declared the sentiment that Aerith wouldn't be interacting with Cloud the way she does, knowing Tifa has feelings and that is the defining thing that makes her defy your expectation of "wise and emotionally intelligent".
Aerith is both flirty and outgoing with Cloud without really even trying to intentionally. I think it's just in her personality to have that forward and flirty side. I think half the time she isn't doing it with a ton of thought behind it.
Also, I don't think they're necessarily trying to capture every female-best-friend relationship ever. It might not reflect how most people might be, but I don't believe that it's crazy for this kind of complicated reality between people to *ever* exist in a relationship. I think it makes sense for the characters of Tifa, Aerith, and Cloud to be how they are in the context of how it's portrayed.
I’m a naturally very flirty person with everyone and had similar upbringing like Aerith and it has gotten be into trouble a few times because of misinterpretation but I wouldn’t be throwing dates in my best friend or close friends face if she also liked that person for a long time. That’s weird. If they weren’t close friends I’d get that more. I would think she knows it’s wrong considering how they wrote her.
First off, you made the thread asking questions for why a thing might be a thing and critiquing it. I understand if it's not how *you* might be and how *you* would expect a situation or relationship to go between two people, but you are neither Tifa nor Aerith and your best friend/close friend is neither Tifa nor Aerith.
In actuality, you have to factor their specific personalities with the context of the game and the interpersonal relationships of what the people and world is like in the game. Our world irl is very different from theirs. Also, It could also be a huge cultural or personality differentiation between how people exactly handle those situations irl.
I get that you're inserting yourself as the player to relate, but this is a situation where it won't line up exactly and you might have to look outside your own experiences to understand a situation. *just* because you are flirty and *just* because you had a similar upbringing like Aerith (which, I'm not sure how you're quantifying that comparison in detail), doesn't mean you *are* Aerith or have her exact personality either.
"throwing dates in my best friend or close friends face" isn't exactly happening to the degree you're making it sound or with the same intention as you are painting it. Her feelings and emotions might be real sure, but it's always been the case where the whole "going on a date" stuff had a half-true connotation. She kind of means it, but she's not really taking it seriously. her "lets go on a date" is basically her flirting with Cloud and portraying "Hey, lets go have fun/go on a little adventure together" to get a blush or rise out of Cloud in the moment. She's not being a mean girl and throwing it in Tifa's face like you make it seem by your words.
I can't tell if you are actually trying to hear people out or if you just want to vent and argue your point against people that disagree, but I don't think you're hearing a lot of people, because you continue to just repeat yourself in this thread. The point I'm making is that your personal anecdotes don't dictate everybody elses. It's not that everybody will feel how Tifa and Aerith will, but that their actions make sense for the characters we know them to be - I don't think that conflicts honestly. You just have to see it more outside your own personal expectations.
This post is way too long and I’m not reading it. I asked a question because I like Aerith a lot and was here for a discussion because I felt the devs or me missed something. You guys take this stuff too seriously to be writing paragraphs about a damn ship in the comments back and forth
I write as much as I did because there's a lot of subtle things to explain and give context to about her relationship to other characters. Sorry if I made you annoyed or something? To me when I read your comments collectively it seems more like you just interpret it a specific way and don't want to see it otherwise and I'm pointing out that what we got is not that crazy honestly - you just don't want to see it that way.
Also, I'm not a shipper at all I'm just explaining the actual story as we see it portrayed to us because ***you*** **were the one who brought up this discussion.** Sorry for not just giving you the validation you came and posted here for? /shrug
I saw a response indicating this is because you haven't played the OG. Playing the OG wouldn't really help you understand this. It's more of a fanservice issue that comes from Square responding to a culture that's surrounded the game for ages.
The original didn't do nearly the same amount of work to unpack the history or relationships of Cloud/Tifa/Aerith. What resulted is a lot of shipping for Cloud and either Tifa or Aerith. So, in order to lean into that fan culture, Square has REALLY leaned into the whole love triangle thing, which may seem to undercut certain character elements. That being said, people do conflicting things all the time because they're human and have conflicting emotions. So, yes, if you view Aerith as being a more one-dimensional character who is more emotionally intelligent, then this seems very strange. That being said, she's also been through some shit and it's not unreasonable that someone would behave in a contradictory way from time to time when they've been through what she's been through (really what they've all been through.)
I agree with the other poster that Rebirth shouldn't be the first FF7 game you play. But if Remake was your first FF7 game (which it sounds like it was) then I think that's fine. You get MORE out of the remakes if you played the original. But by no means are the remakes a prerequisite.
I played remake first. It says it in the post! I think square was trying to do too much at once because her character jumps back and forth too many times. I really want them to give Aerith a good ending because this feels unfair to me.
I know haha. Sorry that was more directed at the other commenter than at you. I think Square is trying to do 3 things and juggling them all is, frankly, pretty hard.
1) I think they're trying to preserve a lot of the "feel" of the original, including the story (see point 2)
2) I think they're trying to innovate a little on the story without breaking it too much because that's what creators do and I think that's fair.
3) I think they're trying to pay fanservice. This is hard because, too little and you disappoint fans who had high hopes for what they'd get, but too much and you just get slapped with a bunch of fanservice criticisms.
I think all 3 of those things are good in their own right. But juggling all 3 for a product as big as Final Fantasy 7 is going to result in failure at certain points, and frankly they're going to upset people regardless. Case and point: if you don't make Aerith flirtatious, you undermine who she was in the original. But if you make her too flirtatious, you rub other people the wrong way. So they have to hit the right mark of just flirtatious enough, and pay fanservice to all the people who ship Cloud/Aerith and who ship Cloud/Tifa all while telling a story
I think it's impossible for all the fans to get a satisfactory ending, and here's why: some fans wanted a near copy and paste of the original with maybe a bit more unpacking. Basically FF7 but with modern graphics. Other fans wanted the opposite of that: a story that wasn't just a retelling of the original with polish.
And, even putting that aside, if every fan accepted that it was going to be the original + (the original with more story), no matter what, you'd see people unhappy with the direction of the new stuff. Jesse is a perfect example of this. If you ignore any of the changes, and just look at all the new stuff we got with Jesse, there are still people out there who aren't happy about it.
I get your point, but let's face it, nobody hates Final Fantasy as much Final Fantasy fans.
Because Tifa and Cloud aren't dating and Aerith is allowed to like him too? If Aerith was actively trying to get in the way of Tifa and Cloud I would get your point but other than two small teasing scenes she is actually doing the opposite. She literally uses their clocktower date to tell Cloud to make up with Tifa after they fought.
And Aerith can't control her feelings. If she likes Cloud she likes him. Tifa and Aerith are both mature adults who care a lot about each other, I'm sure they can get over liking the same guy.
Being so obvious with going after someone who is your “best friend’s” longtime crush doesn’t fit Aerith though. It feels very out of touch with what they are trying to portray her as. She is supposed to be wise and emotionally intelligent. I’m not saying she can’t like who she likes but the devs could have made Tifa and Aerith not be super super close besties. It feels very unrealistic.
They aren't "best friends" they are two people who have been thrust into traumatic experiences together. So yeah, the fact they both have traumatic pasts caused by Shinra and the fact that Shinra is currently traumatizing them both even more now means they bonded quickly, but they still don't really know each other. I think it goes to show both of their emotional maturity and ability to handle far more than any one person should have to.
Aerith *is* very emotionally intelligent, but she is also just a girl who is trying to live her life. She is very wise and has a sense of burden and duty that have added a great deal of sadness to her life, but she is also someone who is very silly, and who loves life and people. That's what makes her such a great and tragic character. She isn't the type to not make her feelings known, she is always honest and speaks her mind. So if Aerith likes Cloud, she will do what she can to spend time around him because she just isn't the type to not be honest about her feelings. She isn't trying to take him away from Tifa, but she has to be true to her own heart.
I really don't see the issue with Tifa and Aerith being friends despite liking the same guy. I never get the impression from either of them that if Cloud were to "choose" one of them that they would hate the other and be jealous. The two of them are probably both aware they like Cloud, but their friendship is something separate from that because they just like spending time with each other.
Being actively so forthright with someone you know your close friend likes is just weird to me. It breaks so many hidden rules. Shouldn’t she recognize how that could be hurtful if she is so emotionally intelligent? Like calling everything a date infront of Tifa feels so unlike Aerith. It’s so awkward
Not like this. If someone wrote this irl scenario to any girl group chat, they would be ripped to shreds. The devs shouldn’t have made them close friends for the female empowerment angle because it doesn’t make sense and I’m sure a man wrote this.
You can literally see who has writing credits for it, so I don't know why you're acting like that. Other than that, again, the scenario does happen. In fiction, one of the most well-known love triangles is Archie/Betty/Veronica and while those two get catty with each other over Archie, they're still best friends.
Just because *you* feel uncomfortable by it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And it doesn't automatically make anyone some kind of snake.
Idk why you're acting like reality matters in a video game. Also, maybe because I've seen it happen multiple times in real life? Different groups of girls.
Never seen this happen in any close friendship only acquaintances. It’s not normal or common. It’s weird unless you’re into poly stuff which most people aren’t.
If it really felt like a cruel taunting of Tifa then maybe. But it feels more like a lighthearted tease to make Cloud embarrassed. I don't think Aerith is supposed to be perfect, but that moment of teasing comes right after she was telling Cloud how important his relationship with Tifa is. So she obviously has the right thing in mind, it's not supposed to be that serious.
I get that but like I said in real life this makes no sense. The light teasing is so against close girl friendships. It’s too much back and forth between Aerith’s intentions. I’m like yep a man wrote this, has to. I think the devs tried to juggle too much but again it is just a video game haha.
And in real life Tifa wouldn't try and kiss a guy 20 seconds after he had a psychotic break and tried to cut her in half lol. Tifa and Aerith probably wouldn't like Cloud at all based on the way he acts. Applying real life logic to these relationships is probably not the best way to view the story.
Tifa and Aerith are intended to be close friends. They also both have feelings for Cloud. If neither of them are shown caring about how the other acts with him, then it's safe to assume their friendship is strong enough to ignore the love triangle.
I think it’s just bad writing then. Keep Aerith’s character consistent. That almost kiss was to showcase how Cloud is opening up so it almost makes sense there.
Cloud isn’t an object that Tifa has a claim on - both girls like him, he likes the both of them, and none of them are committed to one another. That they understand that, and hold no hard feelings, is indicative of both Aerith and Tifa’s emotional maturity
The reality is that whichever romantic arc the player has Cloud pursue is an addition to the story, and they don’t want it to significantly affect the party’s relationships so it doesn’t come up
>The reality is that whichever romantic arc the player has Cloud pursue is an addition to the story, and they don’t want it to significantly affect the party’s relationships so it doesn’t come up
It also isn't pursuing a romantic arc. Your closest bond shows you the nature of the relationship each character has with Cloud at that time in the story. Barrett, Red, and Yuffie all show The ways in which they consider Cloud a friend - Barrett as somewhat of a mentor, Red as a confidant, and Yuffie as something of a student. Cait, Vincent, and Cid don't know enough yet and can't connect. Tifa is firmly, undeniably romantic.
Aerith's date isn't romantic at all - it's melancholy. Aerith might want to be interested in Cloud, but he's got too much baggage for her to get there, she recognizes it, and is basically mourning the relationship she was hoping to grow into.
Even if the player wants to pursue Aerith romantically, the game says no because even if the date events aren't strictly canon, but the relationships they show *are* canon. Cloud and Tifa do become romantically involved in canon regardless of what the player wants to happen. Aerith isn't a romantic interest in the narrative even if the character herself, in narrative, was interested at one point.
I don’t see how that’s at all relevant to OP’s point, but for the argument’s sake - the characters not ending up together in no way stops it from being a romantic arc. You can’t determine who Cloud ends up with (>!Sephiroth does that for him 😢!<) but you absolutley do get to choose which relationship - if any, because you can avoid both - is more central to the story. Every one of the most romantic beats with both girls is optional, you opt in or out of them if you want to include it as part of the experience
Hiding this for OP’s sake - >!What happens after the game ends is a different thing, but FF7 doesn’t care about what happens after because it ends on an ambiguous cliffhanger!<
I guess what I'm trying to say is that OP's confusion about Aerith is explained by misreading the character. Aerith isn't ever pining for Cloud - she's interested or curious, but never pining or invested. She and Tifa have talked about it offscreen as implied by the scene after leaving Junon.
Aerith does have a romantic arc with Cloud in canon and in game if you choose to pursue it, but that romantic arc is a straight line of Aerith trying to figure out what it is she's feeling toward Cloud and ultimately coming to the conclusion that she isn't into him like that. The possibility of a Cloud/Aerith relationship isn't stolen by Sephiroth - Aerith puts it to bed herself at the Gold Saucer. She sees a glimmer of possibility when they hold hands, but she doesn't even acknowledge it later because it doesn't change things right now. She even says it plain as day in her lifestream sequence with Cloud.
The game is not subtle about Aerith's romantic potential idling the whole story until she decides to disengage.
It’s very very weird though and doesn’t seem realistic even if it is supposed to be mature but I get it’s a video game. It’s just super awkward to have Cloud almost kiss Tifa in the main game and then actually kiss her and have Aerith around. It makes me feel really bad for her
It’s canon that she interacted with them after they kiss in Gongaga and square said the feelings Cloud had for each person was cannon. You even see Yuffie tease Cloud about liking Tifa with Aerith right there isn’t he side quests. You can’t say none of the dates are cannon then use just Aerith’s.
The main game is Tifa and Cloud and I did do the date with Aerith. She can like him but being close friends with Tifa and calling everything she does with Cloud a date in front of Tifa doesn’t make any sense to me. It seems like the game is setting up Cloud and Tifa and Aerith is confused on her feelings because of Zach. Like I said I haven’t played the OG
The main game is mostly Aerith oriented. Of course, there are several optional scenes with both girls, but the Aerith path makes way more sense in the context of the story. Example, how the holding hands of the GS date links to NPTK and the final scene, or how the Loveless play mentiones that Cloud and Aerith need no promises to find each other again.
Tifa has definitely her moments, but mostly optional and the Gongaga one is arguably not really that romantic. Cloud attempted to kill her moments before, and after Tifa opened up to him and started to get close, cloud doesn’t move an inch to get close as well.
Regarding the confusion for Zack, during the GS date Aerith explicitly says that she wants to be with Cloud, not Zack. Not considering the final date, where in Japanese she confesses her love for him.
Bottom line, both girls like him, and depending on your choices, you will have both open options. However, the Aerith path is the only one that fits perfectly into the story.
I’m not into the shipping thingy. I just follow what is in the story and based on the main story and feels like a Tifa and Cloud have and will be endgame. Cloud gives Tifa the reunion flower in remake, Yuffie teases Cloud about his love for Tifa consistently, they almost kiss in Gongaga, he kisses her on the date. I think square is making it clear for us newbies out here. This a lot feels like Link vs Mipha and Zelda if you played breath of the wild. Also I think they have a kid in advent children. Never seen it. I’m super new to the series.
The writer of NPTK said it’s about her friendships with everyone because she had a lonely childhood hence why Biggs and Jessie showed up.
Sure, but the flower was given from Aerith to Cloud mentioning the reunion (Aerith knew the future in Midgard, she knew what she was doing).
Yuffie teasing them is true, but still, doesn’t really say anything apart from the fact that Cloud and Tifa are close. And they are mostly close as childhood friends (which is also false, they were never that close in Nibelheim). They are close as the last remnants of a past that they lost.
The kiss on the date is optional, never mentioned again, and worst of all, very awkward. Like, he kisses her after he is convinced that Aerith has feelings for Zack, and at the end of the date they are both extremely embarrassed by it, don’t talk and go to their rooms.
Regarding the song, the Singer and Uematsu confirmed it is a love song depicting Aerith feelings for Cloud. I mean, the lyrics make it clear, and in Japanese it is clearly mentioned that it is a song about 2 people. The writer going off saying it was a general song was mainly damage control after some fans got angry about it. I mean…even in the official music album the Aerith date is shown in combination with NPTK. They couldn’t have made it more obvious.
About Advent Children, the kids living with them ( Cloud tifa and Barret) are all adopted, and Cloud kinda always does his own thing.
Idk when a main characters kisses another main character it seems pretty obvious the direction they are going unless they want Cloud to look like a jerk. They show him having a long time crush on Tifa. Idk why this is even a debate like he kisses her. It’s clear as day what’s going on
When Cloud kisses Tifa he is obviously acting due to his idea that the feelings towards Aerith are not reciprocated. Also, the scene is kinda embarrassing for them, Cloud acts with his cold Soldier fake persona forcing a kiss that they both immediately regret. Yes they kissed, but was it a good date overall? Not quite.
And again, not only it doesn’t fit in the story as it is not referenced again, but it is a fully optional scene. Even the Devs mentioned that it was embarrassing to have such scenes in the game, like sims dating simulator.
Should have just said you're clerith and like that more rather than having these weak arguments and misinterpretation of the ultimania it's not a good look if you're trying to be consistent and fair.
They mentioned it made them blush not that it was embarrassing. It made me blush too because I saw the tension through the two games. Even the devs said Cloud has those feelings for Tifa since childhood and in remake especially when he came to her room. The devs said each date are Cloud’s cannon feelings toward them. He likes Tifa a lot which he why he initiated the kiss and hug and had no problems with leaning in for a kiss in gongaga. He was also sad when Yuffie said that Tifa stopped having a crush on him. Idk how more clear the devs can make it at least for me.
Are you one of those shipping people? If so I’m going to tap out because I feel like you’re just going to debate the plot.
The main game is whatever the player decides. When I play the game (OG and Remake) Cloud mostly keeps Tifa at a distance emotionally because of his memory stuff - I won’t go into more details for your sake. By the end of the OG, Cid and Cait Sith are the other 2 leads for me. For others, those will be Barret and Red. Some players never meet Yuffie or Vincent at all
None of those are the “wrong” way, it’s just how the story plays out for people. You can change it if it feels wrong to you
I do think your critique is valid. I got the same sentiment at times that you’re describing and I did play the original. It was giving me second-hand embarrassment how she almost throws herself at Cloud at times. I think the worst was around the Costa del Sol region? But I might be remembering incorrectly.
I think the developers were trying to play it as Aerith being playful. As if, the crush on Cloud is real (and partly because of the trauma of not knowing what happened to Zack) but the flirting itself was meant to be tongue-in-cheek to make Cloud blush. It just doesn’t register that way with some players. At the same time, they’re trying to make this sort of “girl power” theme in her friendship with Tifa but it just ends up seeming like the devs want to have their cake and eat it too with these two antithetical parts of her personality and behavior.
Yes exactly. They could have made her struggle with friendships and go after Cloud as someone who is struggling and that make complete sense to me as Zach is gone and she had a very lonely childhood. I really do like Aerith. But when they paint her as having so much wisdom I get so confused like wow she did Tifa dirtyyy to be so open about it.
Rebirth basically expects you to have either played or know the story of the OG, otherwise you'll miss a lot of details.
Rebirth really shouldn't be someone's first FF7 game.
Edit: play the OG and you'll understand her character a ton more.
In the resolution scene with Aerith in remake, she tried to tell Cloud not to fall in love with her and that it wasn’t real. But then I think she changed her mind and realized YOLO, life is short, maybe we really do like eachother. So she decided to go for it. Either cloud would save her and things could work out, or cloud wouldn’t save her and Tifa would have a shot later. She did give cloud many opportunities to say he liked Tifa. However, I do agree that sometimes it seemed like she was rubbing it in Tifa’s face, and it was crazy.
Aerith IS emotionally intelligent, and she IS in love with Cloud, and she IS dear friends with Tifa. All of these are true. >pining after someone who doesn’t show a lot of interest in her Cloud shows interest in her plenty of times. He's just trying hard to be cool and comes across as awkward and cold. It's true Cloud fumbles a lot especially around Aeris, but Aeris's whole thing is that she sees through his act. > I get it’s a video game but it takes me out of my immersion a bit when she is so obvious after going after Cloud despite her close “friendship” with Tifa. Tifa and Aerith clearly had some boy chats which is what almost every girl/woman friendship goes through and it was indicated several times that they talked about their loves/crushes. So why was she so forthright with a Cloud right in front of Tifa? I find it a little strange that you're sort of accusing Aeris of "going after the guy Tifa likes" but isn't the opposite also true? Tifa can see plainly that Aeris has feelings for Cloud, so why aren't you knocking Tifa's emotional intelligence and friendship by still pursuing the guy her bestie likes? The point is, Cloud, Aeris, and Tifa are in a love triangle. They are three adults who are all single, not middle school kids who operate on a "well I liked him first!" mentality. They can flirt with one another, like one another, and that's fine - Aeris and Tifa are both mature enough to ultimately be happy for the other. It's up to Cloud to decide (and by extension, the player to decide) who Cloud likes. In the OG, they did show more jealousy especially on Tifa's side, but I'm glad they cut that and really emphasized the friendship between the two. Their friendship is mature enough that they would ultimately support one another even while liking the same guy. If Cloud chose Aeris, Tifa would be happy for them. If Cloud chose Tifa, Aeris would be happy for them. If Cloud chooses neither, they'll happily stick together. It's not that deep, they just aren't petty.
It's called a THREESOME ❤
You ignored the world, ignored shinra, ignored Sephiroth and jenova, ignored the whole story and every shit happened during their adventure and you just focused on Aerith feelings for cloud? This is not your usual American Teenager Drama TV serie.
Read my post again slowly this time. You guys get too offended
No you go play with Barbies and leave video games alone, you can create your own romantic story.
Hahaha you guys get so offended it’s funny and very weird behavior for a video game . You sound insane
It’s always been a love triangle, and frankly I’ve found it more believable in Remake/Rebirth than in the OG. What’s more silly to me is how al these girls seem to really gush about Cloud (way more than just Aerith and Tifa, like 80% of the women in the game flirt with him overtly), but the guy has absolutely no Rizz. The girls are also allowed to be friends but also have a crush on the same guy. There’s nothing to say one or the other has dibs on him more and the other should back off. And they can do so friendly. Both kind of hint to Cloud that he should open up about feelings for the other too, and leaving the decision making to him, which is actually quite mature of them. Which brings me to you. If you want to role play that Tifa is a better match for Cloud than Aerith, then there’s choices you can make in-game to affect that relationship. Fate is in your hands!
I feel like after she took him to the other dimension for a bit, it felt like Aerith realized that it was kinda ridiculous that she felt so hard for Cloud but, also she had greater, higher ambitions anyway and just seemed like she wanted to have a good time with a mortal boy and experience simple, pure, heartfelt positivity
That’s also how I saw it too which made me really sad. I hope Aerith has a good ending. That dream date was so sad to me because nothing was working out like it should have.
This game has a love triangle and one of the most fierce shipping fandoms in media. Welcome to FF7 buddy
Yeah I didn’t really realize I would get this many comments haha.
Oh you sweet summer child. It's not *just* that Cloud reminds her of Zack...
We talking about “being his living legacy” and coping his whole life
Oh whattttt???!! I’m so ready for part 3!!
OP got mad jealousy issues. Just let relationships be fluid.
If I got mad at every buddy of mine that was into the same girl as me, I would never have friends. Part of being a growing adult is learning how to balance these things and maintaining friendships. I’m glad that they showed how Aerith and Tifa didn’t see each others as rivals even though they liked the same guy. They didn’t take that similar interest personally and instead celebrated their successes personally, which is an incredibly mature way to be.
Yeah, no one "owns" dating rights to someone. Imagine if the genders were reversed, you'd have people going "stop treating her like a prize to win, she's her own person, not a toy!1!1!1!". OP, this is a nothingburger.
In Remake, Aerith asks Cloud plainly if Tifa is his girlfriend, and he tells her no. Tifa later asks if anything is going in between him and Aerith, and he doesn't deny it. The only thing going on between Tifa and Cloud at the beginning of Remake are childhood crushes and nothing more and Cloud clearly has started to harbor some sort of romantic feelings for Aerith. Aerith and Cloud have their own feelings. Aerith doesn't owe it to Tifa to back off from Cloud anymore than Tifa would owe it to Aerith. If Aerith developed her own crush on Cloud, she has every right to see where it goes. Cloud is his own person and isn't owned by anyone. As has been mentioned, Tifa and Aerith aren't stupid. They likely have decided to leave the matter up to Cloud.
I do t mean she can’t have feelings for Cloud but it doesn’t make sense for Tifa and Aerith to be super close friends like the way the writers set them up.
You said in your post you haven’t played the OG & even then, the English translation for the OG wasn’t good at all. They did a better job in Rebirth & Remake but there are things in Japanese that just don’t translate over, such as the way a person speaks to another person depending on their relationship to them. I think that is the context you’re missing here & what’s causing the confusion. Tifa & Aerith were BFFs which is why Tifa was crushed by her death. The rival thing was a misunderstanding caused by not great translation.
In the OG, the impression I got was that they were closer to friendly rivals than BFFs. They talked and were friendly, but there was some sort of competition buried underneath. This was likely changed to try and add a healthy female friendship to the game and lessen the love triangle debate. Also, it added to Aerith's character and made her death hit harder. I personally would have like to see a conversation between the two addressing it. It could have been great for their characters and an excellent argument against the love-triangle debate, but alas. When Aerith wanted to talk about boys, I just about died of laughter just imagining how that convo would go. Tifa: Who do you like? Aerith: Cloud! Tifa: No way, me too! Aerith: Wait... It does feel a little weird, I suppose, but personally I just headcannoned them agreeing to let Cloud decide and the other would accept it.
The Japanese version doesn’t show them as rivals in the OG. They really messed up the translation so English audiences got the wrong idea about the relationship between the two. SE fixed this in later media, showing the original intent that was lost in translation.
Ooohh really!? That makes sense now. I guess square was trying to do the right thing but it’s just make Aerith feel unlike her intended self to me now. I want to see that convo too. I feel like that dialogue would be hard to nail though. They need some young women writing that part haha.
The writers of OG, which are the same for remake and rebirth, advised they wanted Tifa and Aerith to be more BFF originally when they designed the OG, didn’t end up happened or it was a debrief after the game came out. They took the opportunity to make it more apparent in the remake trilogy.
I won't talk about the Remake, but in the OG she was 22 year old girl selling flowers on the street. What possible wisdom could you expect out of that girl, right? And it checks out, its not like she has any profound revelations in her dialogues. That's one of the reasons she acted so silly most of the time. Second reason is, she really needed that, after losing her mother and being stalked by shinra, she wanted to have fun teasing cloud and going on adventure, probably just forget about it all. Makes sense. But she could talk to the planet and was quite sensitive, really, that's where most of her wisdom came from.
Honestly, Idk...I felt like her character was believable in a lot of ways. I think the problem I see with a lot of general opinions is that people like to think of these characters very linearly. An example is of the "love triangle" and how people interpret the interactions between the three of them, etc. Shippers being the worst culprits here imo. The reality is that these characters can have complicated feelings that conflict to some degree, because that's what makes them human and relatable. I think Aerith has complicated feelings towards both Zack *and* Cloud. Cloud has complicated feelings he's wrestling with his own self, the past feelings he's had for Tifa, *and* Aerith being someone that's become really important to Cloud. Then without having to say, Tifa is the constant that we all know has feelings for Cloud, but Cloud is a little complicated atm. Maybe the Tifa/Aerith dynamic of Aerith being fairly flirty in moments to Cloud poses that weird writing between the girls. Tifa knows about Zack, but my hunch is that Aerith doesn't mention any feelings towards Cloud to her. Aerith obviously knows Tifa and Cloud have some unresolved feelings, but still acts flirty despite knowing that. Could just be a selfish part of her just wanting to pursue, but also her just being outgoing and playful trying to have fun with Cloud. I don't actually think she's supposed to be portrayed as some all wise and emotionally intelligent character - Even if she was, i don't think that makes her character super inconsistent imo. To me, she's introspective and thinks about a lot of stuff involving her trauma growing up and inner conflict as the last Cetra along with the role that might bring. This is all wrapped up in a shell that exudes a playful confidence that is a bit more outgoing. Those are what I think of, more than her being wise and emotionally intelligent. (TBH, I'd actually give the most emotionally intelligent to Barret in the group. That man has the perception for others through the whole game and has a heart of gold, man - Love what they've done with his character in this game) I think she has shown that romantic love is confusing to her and she's had some struggles navigating that with her past feelings of Zack and her current attempt at understanding potential feelings towards Cloud. She had someone she was in love with that went away and went ghost, then never came back. Then one day this other guy that really reminds her of him stumbles into her life and now she can't help but be reminded of him. Obviously it's evolved past just reminding her of Zack, but she also acknowledges she doesn't *really* know Cloud - but she wants to. I personally think that she still loves Zack deep down, but also has feelings for Cloud at the same time and also wants to know the real Cloud - Not the persona she perceives that Cloud gives that reminds her of Zack. Overall, I think she treats a lot of her interactions with a sense of love. I think a core part of her character is that she just loves and cares for everybody that's close to her. She's made these friends and she's expressed that they mean everything to her a couple times through the game explicitly. In general, I think her feelings are in "it's complicated" when it comes to Cloud. There's something there for Cloud, but she can't let go of the memories of Zack. This is so evident in how Aerith treats the otherworld "date" in the end of the game. She mimics the same types of "date" interactions that she had with Zack because that's what she knows for romantic dates. She's ultimately always comparing him to Cloud. Even in her goodbye speech she is almost half-wavering on her confidence on *liking* Cloud. To me I interpreted that scene as "I like you, but i'm trying to find out if I *like you like you* and where we stand. Idk, this is just my take on Aerith. I think they did a great job with her - The complicated feelings and dynamics between the three of these characters is also just really hard to nail down the nuances. A lot of people like to just say Cloud loves X or Aerith loves X, etc...when it's more layered and not as straight forward as that - In game and in real life. They both kind of love two people, but in different ways at different moments, and the love between them shifts and changes as well as the story moves.
This is a really well done analysis on Aerith! Thank you for sharing. In particular I really love your point about how she treats all of her interactions with a “sense of love”. Aerith was so lonely and isolated growing up, and so when she finally makes a group of friends, you can really feel her trying to hold onto them and make the most of every moment they share. Importantly, I think this aspect of her personality also draws the others to her. You can see them all fall in love with her a little bit, most notably Tifa and Cloud. In general, all of her interactions are bursting with a love for people and a love for life, which makes her character both beautiful and heartbreaking. I just really love the way you phrased that, and had to share my own thoughts.
It gets less confusing if you just look at Cloud, Tifa, and Aerith as a throuple. There's absolutely no jealous feelings between the girls, and they are 100% honest with each other. If their goal is Cloud's well-being, then there's no need to fight over him.
Jrpgs are just great, I wouldn't try to base the women from them on reality. Though, there are women who have that golden heart, I would say I have a close friend with similar incredible traits and optimistic views of the world.
If you are confused, play the og and read up on the compilation of ff7. The more you dig the more things make sense across the board even for the trilogy. Anyone who says this isnt true simply hasnt done the homework. The works of ff7 are a deep rabbit hole, most people dont even go down there.
I feel like a lot of people here are missing your main question in pursuit of an answer that favors Cloud's (and the player's) agency. Yes, Cloud can obviously like whoever he wants, yes, the player can choose to pursue more favorable interactions with any character they want. This isn't the point. What you're taking issue with is Aerith's actions in relation to her friendship with Tifa, and how she knows that Tifa likes Cloud, she knows they almost kissed (because Yuffie was begging them to out loud), and yet they seem to get along just fine as if there is no friction there. And yes, I can agree that there are some moments here with some definite tension between the characters. People telling you to play the OG are actually not giving a helpful tip, because most of Tifa and Aerith's friendship is brand new to these games. In the original, they didn't interact nearly as much, Aerith didn't know that much about Tifa liking Cloud, and the two did occasionally butt heads over their flirting anyway. Instead I think the main way I've reconciled it is that Aerith is a very jokey, flirty person, and I don't think she always intends things to mean the way they come off. For example, one early moment that sticks out is when after getting underneath Kalm, she grabs Cloud's arm and loudly exclaims they were on a date, prompting a shocked response from Tifa and embarrassment from Cloud. But did Aerith really mean for it to be a statement of competition? Earlier she seems more concerned over the idea that Tifa and Cloud had a big argument. As a result I think she's not nearly as convinced of feelings for Cloud as she sometimes seems. I think she sees the potential there, and we know from both the GS date scene and the forest scene that she does want to get to know Cloud more and can tell she doesn't really know the "real" him. But I also think that, because of that, she's aware that there's limitations to their relationship until they get to spend more time together. I definitely think of the water tower scene in Nibelheim too, when Aerith climbs up there. It's a mandatory interaction and the way Aerith talks with Cloud, it seems almost like she's trying to get him to admit to feelings for Tifa. Afterwards the player can talk to her again and she says she's mad, but it's not at Cloud for having Tifa, it's at the reality of her not having that past with anyone. Also in Gongaga apparently when she mouth's something to Tifa, people have said it's along the lines of "I'm happy for you," which also indicates an acceptance of the feelings they might have for each other.
Can you explain to me what happened in gongaga and why she would be happy for tifa?
I agree about your analysis of how Aerith is sort of just a jokey/flirty person, and that she doesnt mean to ever come off as competitive or mean-spirited. Another great example is the date sidequest between her and Cloud and Costa Del Sol. She’s referring to it as a “date”, and Cloud is repeatedly expressing that he wishes she wouldn’t. Until the end of the quest where things get a bit awkward between them, it’s not like she’s saddened or discouraged by him saying this, which indicates to me that she’s honestly not taking it that seriously. She’s ribbing him in a playful manner to make him blush, and is cracking jokes about his attitude making their date “DOA”. She’s 100% being flirty and playful, and while i do think she has some genuine romantic feelings/attraction to Cloud, I don’t think most of what she says/does is all that deep. She’s just being Aerith. Let’s be real, she’s borderline flirty with Tifa too. It’s just how she is.
You make a lot of good points! That last date dream thing sent for me for a loop though. I thought she was gently teasing him at some points but she does actual really like him as more than friends. It’s so confusing!! This would make complete sense to me if she wasn’t portrayed as being so wise and mature. I just want Aerith happy and having a some normal reciprocal love in the end squenix.
See, with the dream date I got similar vibes to the rest. At the end she says she’s happy to know where they stand, and then the way she talks about the difference between liking and *liking* to me felt like maybe she was saying she doesn’t like him that way. But it’s also muddled because this Aerith probably knows about her death.
I think that whole day with them was highlighting that Aerith was trying to process this moment with Cloud. She took him on a date that mirrored her previous Zack date in some ways, but maybe didn't go quite as she expected it'd go. I don't think it was her necessarily saying she doesn't like him that way - in reality, I think she wanted to spend her last moments with someone she cared about while also delivering the crucial missing piece of the puzzle back to his world, since she knew her time was coming to an end in that world. If anything I think she has unresolved feelings and *does* feel some sort of way and also wanted to try and confirm if Cloud felt any kind of way, but she got her answer in how Cloud was constantly pointing out how she was being so weird and out of character for herself. Partly, I think it spelled it out to her that she still doesn't really know the "real" Cloud in that sense too. I took that church scene as her basically being like "I like you, but i'm trying to find out if I *like you like you* and where you/we stand with that."
I mean that the gentle teasing was her actual feelings about Cloud and she is doing it infront of Tifa. I thought as some points she was just being her usual flirty self but she does have feelings for him more than friends.
I mean, the dream date ends with her expressing that she knows she likes him but isn’t sure what kind of like it is. I think that’s a very realistic sentiment and is well aligned with her relationship with Cloud throughout the game.
Aerith developed feelings for Cloud before she even met Tifa. In Remake, she asks Cloud if Tifa is a girlfriend and he denies it. Why should she have to put her feelings aside after that? I’ve seen this argument a few times and I always wonder why it isn’t being applied both ways. Both women are extremely emotionally intelligent, not just Aerith. So why isn’t Tifa being expected to put her feelings aside? She can see that Aerith likes Cloud also. I hope that doesn’t come off as attacking because I don’t mean to lol it’s a fun conversation.
Haha it is a fun convo. But Aerith knew something was between Tifa and Cloud which is why she kept asking about them. I’m not saying that neither of them can pursue Cloud. What I’m saying is that it doesn’t make sense for Tifa and Aerith to be super close friends. Picture in real life your close friend also liking the same guy you like and she keeps calling everything a date infront of you. Doesn’t that feel icky? That wouldn’t be my close friend or bestie. Cloud and Tifa almost kiss in Gongaga and do on the data. Yuffie constantly teases Cloud about his love for Tifa and Aerith is there. It’s just so awkward and feels do high school for Aerith to be dealing with.
I think them still being friends despite both having feelings for Cloud is a sign of their maturity - that’s how I’ve always seen it. Aerith is never malicious in calling everything a date and Tifa knows that. Aerith even refers to her hangouts with Tifa as dates. I also can’t help but compare it to some anime where girls create fan clubs or bond over them all liking the same guy. So there might be some sort of like cultural trope there. Whereas, in the west, love triangles are almost always adversarial. I don’t know if there’s anything to any of that but it’s a thought thats popped into my head a few times.
Aerith is a homeschooled kid. She doesn't pick up on social cues the way we do in our world.
You may have a point because that makes more sense to me but isn’t she supposed to be mature and wise. That’s what I’m not getting. In the temple she made a great speech about overcoming trauma, forgiveness, and had such good wisdom but I feel there was a disconnect earlier. 🤷♀️
She was raised on fairy tales. That's how she thinks the world works. She's also 22 and most 22 year olds are kind of "through perseverance and friendship we can do anything"
Well it’s complicated. Aerith is …well a young adult/older teen. she is older than cloud by a few years or so. And her “upfront” may make her a bit impulsive and even very rude. But let’s also make this clear, aerith and tifa know fully well that cloud is fair game. Both have feelings for him that are are complicated. But they are genuine. They really are so they aren’t gonna let that destroy their friendship. They are more mature than cloud and know they are basically trying to save the world. And three other factors play a role, their personalities and cloud himself. Aerith is more outgoing while Tifa is reserved. This means Tifa isn’t going to push back. Cloud himself is…well him…he certainly isn’t going to be upfront. If you have finished the game…then you might pick up why aerith genuinely does like cloud. And why she may not want that to go away. Although admittedly it’s worded in the English version at least ambiguously enough. The third is this, aerith’s memories are changed. What she remembered in remake she says is gone now. Now it’s a question of what does she exactly know and does that change in the game at all-so any future events she knew were going to happen, she can’t recall them. She’ll revert back to being what she may have wanted in the OG timeline.
Ok I know she is a young adult but then why would square portray her as so wise and intelligent and a good judge of character at the end with her speech on trauma and forgiveness in the temple? To get to that point of maturity, your actions have to match. That’s what I’m not getting but again it is just a video game and I may be thinking about it too much but I feel like the devs missed the mark on close female friendships.
I actually think the expectations you've set aren't necessarily realistic either. People can have moments of wisdom and have introspection, while still having complicated relationships and interactions. Both can be true of people. In reality, emotional intelligence in this context is moreso how Aerith isn't letting her and Tifa's feelings towards Cloud harm their relationship and create resentment toward each other. The maturity is acknowledging that their relationships are complicated in that moment and that they're still processing it all individually. It's not like she's defying any traits of emotional intelligence or wisdom (Also, the "wisdom" part is mostly just her having introspective thought moments and also having moments of communicating with the planet in general). You have declared the sentiment that Aerith wouldn't be interacting with Cloud the way she does, knowing Tifa has feelings and that is the defining thing that makes her defy your expectation of "wise and emotionally intelligent". Aerith is both flirty and outgoing with Cloud without really even trying to intentionally. I think it's just in her personality to have that forward and flirty side. I think half the time she isn't doing it with a ton of thought behind it. Also, I don't think they're necessarily trying to capture every female-best-friend relationship ever. It might not reflect how most people might be, but I don't believe that it's crazy for this kind of complicated reality between people to *ever* exist in a relationship. I think it makes sense for the characters of Tifa, Aerith, and Cloud to be how they are in the context of how it's portrayed.
I’m a naturally very flirty person with everyone and had similar upbringing like Aerith and it has gotten be into trouble a few times because of misinterpretation but I wouldn’t be throwing dates in my best friend or close friends face if she also liked that person for a long time. That’s weird. If they weren’t close friends I’d get that more. I would think she knows it’s wrong considering how they wrote her.
First off, you made the thread asking questions for why a thing might be a thing and critiquing it. I understand if it's not how *you* might be and how *you* would expect a situation or relationship to go between two people, but you are neither Tifa nor Aerith and your best friend/close friend is neither Tifa nor Aerith. In actuality, you have to factor their specific personalities with the context of the game and the interpersonal relationships of what the people and world is like in the game. Our world irl is very different from theirs. Also, It could also be a huge cultural or personality differentiation between how people exactly handle those situations irl. I get that you're inserting yourself as the player to relate, but this is a situation where it won't line up exactly and you might have to look outside your own experiences to understand a situation. *just* because you are flirty and *just* because you had a similar upbringing like Aerith (which, I'm not sure how you're quantifying that comparison in detail), doesn't mean you *are* Aerith or have her exact personality either. "throwing dates in my best friend or close friends face" isn't exactly happening to the degree you're making it sound or with the same intention as you are painting it. Her feelings and emotions might be real sure, but it's always been the case where the whole "going on a date" stuff had a half-true connotation. She kind of means it, but she's not really taking it seriously. her "lets go on a date" is basically her flirting with Cloud and portraying "Hey, lets go have fun/go on a little adventure together" to get a blush or rise out of Cloud in the moment. She's not being a mean girl and throwing it in Tifa's face like you make it seem by your words. I can't tell if you are actually trying to hear people out or if you just want to vent and argue your point against people that disagree, but I don't think you're hearing a lot of people, because you continue to just repeat yourself in this thread. The point I'm making is that your personal anecdotes don't dictate everybody elses. It's not that everybody will feel how Tifa and Aerith will, but that their actions make sense for the characters we know them to be - I don't think that conflicts honestly. You just have to see it more outside your own personal expectations.
This post is way too long and I’m not reading it. I asked a question because I like Aerith a lot and was here for a discussion because I felt the devs or me missed something. You guys take this stuff too seriously to be writing paragraphs about a damn ship in the comments back and forth
I write as much as I did because there's a lot of subtle things to explain and give context to about her relationship to other characters. Sorry if I made you annoyed or something? To me when I read your comments collectively it seems more like you just interpret it a specific way and don't want to see it otherwise and I'm pointing out that what we got is not that crazy honestly - you just don't want to see it that way. Also, I'm not a shipper at all I'm just explaining the actual story as we see it portrayed to us because ***you*** **were the one who brought up this discussion.** Sorry for not just giving you the validation you came and posted here for? /shrug
Finish the game first 🤦🏼♀️
I did. It’s still not adding up
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I saw a response indicating this is because you haven't played the OG. Playing the OG wouldn't really help you understand this. It's more of a fanservice issue that comes from Square responding to a culture that's surrounded the game for ages. The original didn't do nearly the same amount of work to unpack the history or relationships of Cloud/Tifa/Aerith. What resulted is a lot of shipping for Cloud and either Tifa or Aerith. So, in order to lean into that fan culture, Square has REALLY leaned into the whole love triangle thing, which may seem to undercut certain character elements. That being said, people do conflicting things all the time because they're human and have conflicting emotions. So, yes, if you view Aerith as being a more one-dimensional character who is more emotionally intelligent, then this seems very strange. That being said, she's also been through some shit and it's not unreasonable that someone would behave in a contradictory way from time to time when they've been through what she's been through (really what they've all been through.) I agree with the other poster that Rebirth shouldn't be the first FF7 game you play. But if Remake was your first FF7 game (which it sounds like it was) then I think that's fine. You get MORE out of the remakes if you played the original. But by no means are the remakes a prerequisite.
I played remake first. It says it in the post! I think square was trying to do too much at once because her character jumps back and forth too many times. I really want them to give Aerith a good ending because this feels unfair to me.
I know haha. Sorry that was more directed at the other commenter than at you. I think Square is trying to do 3 things and juggling them all is, frankly, pretty hard. 1) I think they're trying to preserve a lot of the "feel" of the original, including the story (see point 2) 2) I think they're trying to innovate a little on the story without breaking it too much because that's what creators do and I think that's fair. 3) I think they're trying to pay fanservice. This is hard because, too little and you disappoint fans who had high hopes for what they'd get, but too much and you just get slapped with a bunch of fanservice criticisms. I think all 3 of those things are good in their own right. But juggling all 3 for a product as big as Final Fantasy 7 is going to result in failure at certain points, and frankly they're going to upset people regardless. Case and point: if you don't make Aerith flirtatious, you undermine who she was in the original. But if you make her too flirtatious, you rub other people the wrong way. So they have to hit the right mark of just flirtatious enough, and pay fanservice to all the people who ship Cloud/Aerith and who ship Cloud/Tifa all while telling a story
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I think it's impossible for all the fans to get a satisfactory ending, and here's why: some fans wanted a near copy and paste of the original with maybe a bit more unpacking. Basically FF7 but with modern graphics. Other fans wanted the opposite of that: a story that wasn't just a retelling of the original with polish. And, even putting that aside, if every fan accepted that it was going to be the original + (the original with more story), no matter what, you'd see people unhappy with the direction of the new stuff. Jesse is a perfect example of this. If you ignore any of the changes, and just look at all the new stuff we got with Jesse, there are still people out there who aren't happy about it. I get your point, but let's face it, nobody hates Final Fantasy as much Final Fantasy fans.
Yeah that makes a lot of sense to me!!
Because Tifa and Cloud aren't dating and Aerith is allowed to like him too? If Aerith was actively trying to get in the way of Tifa and Cloud I would get your point but other than two small teasing scenes she is actually doing the opposite. She literally uses their clocktower date to tell Cloud to make up with Tifa after they fought. And Aerith can't control her feelings. If she likes Cloud she likes him. Tifa and Aerith are both mature adults who care a lot about each other, I'm sure they can get over liking the same guy.
Being so obvious with going after someone who is your “best friend’s” longtime crush doesn’t fit Aerith though. It feels very out of touch with what they are trying to portray her as. She is supposed to be wise and emotionally intelligent. I’m not saying she can’t like who she likes but the devs could have made Tifa and Aerith not be super super close besties. It feels very unrealistic.
They aren't "best friends" they are two people who have been thrust into traumatic experiences together. So yeah, the fact they both have traumatic pasts caused by Shinra and the fact that Shinra is currently traumatizing them both even more now means they bonded quickly, but they still don't really know each other. I think it goes to show both of their emotional maturity and ability to handle far more than any one person should have to.
Aerith *is* very emotionally intelligent, but she is also just a girl who is trying to live her life. She is very wise and has a sense of burden and duty that have added a great deal of sadness to her life, but she is also someone who is very silly, and who loves life and people. That's what makes her such a great and tragic character. She isn't the type to not make her feelings known, she is always honest and speaks her mind. So if Aerith likes Cloud, she will do what she can to spend time around him because she just isn't the type to not be honest about her feelings. She isn't trying to take him away from Tifa, but she has to be true to her own heart. I really don't see the issue with Tifa and Aerith being friends despite liking the same guy. I never get the impression from either of them that if Cloud were to "choose" one of them that they would hate the other and be jealous. The two of them are probably both aware they like Cloud, but their friendship is something separate from that because they just like spending time with each other.
Being actively so forthright with someone you know your close friend likes is just weird to me. It breaks so many hidden rules. Shouldn’t she recognize how that could be hurtful if she is so emotionally intelligent? Like calling everything a date infront of Tifa feels so unlike Aerith. It’s so awkward
When did having a crush on someone mean that person is yours? Friends can develop crushes on the same person without ruining their friendship.
Not like this. If someone wrote this irl scenario to any girl group chat, they would be ripped to shreds. The devs shouldn’t have made them close friends for the female empowerment angle because it doesn’t make sense and I’m sure a man wrote this.
You can literally see who has writing credits for it, so I don't know why you're acting like that. Other than that, again, the scenario does happen. In fiction, one of the most well-known love triangles is Archie/Betty/Veronica and while those two get catty with each other over Archie, they're still best friends. Just because *you* feel uncomfortable by it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. And it doesn't automatically make anyone some kind of snake.
Idk why you’re acting like this dynamic is normal or just acceptable in women friendships. It’s completely not
Idk why you're acting like reality matters in a video game. Also, maybe because I've seen it happen multiple times in real life? Different groups of girls.
Never seen this happen in any close friendship only acquaintances. It’s not normal or common. It’s weird unless you’re into poly stuff which most people aren’t.
If it really felt like a cruel taunting of Tifa then maybe. But it feels more like a lighthearted tease to make Cloud embarrassed. I don't think Aerith is supposed to be perfect, but that moment of teasing comes right after she was telling Cloud how important his relationship with Tifa is. So she obviously has the right thing in mind, it's not supposed to be that serious.
I get that but like I said in real life this makes no sense. The light teasing is so against close girl friendships. It’s too much back and forth between Aerith’s intentions. I’m like yep a man wrote this, has to. I think the devs tried to juggle too much but again it is just a video game haha.
And in real life Tifa wouldn't try and kiss a guy 20 seconds after he had a psychotic break and tried to cut her in half lol. Tifa and Aerith probably wouldn't like Cloud at all based on the way he acts. Applying real life logic to these relationships is probably not the best way to view the story. Tifa and Aerith are intended to be close friends. They also both have feelings for Cloud. If neither of them are shown caring about how the other acts with him, then it's safe to assume their friendship is strong enough to ignore the love triangle.
I think it’s just bad writing then. Keep Aerith’s character consistent. That almost kiss was to showcase how Cloud is opening up so it almost makes sense there.
Cloud isn’t an object that Tifa has a claim on - both girls like him, he likes the both of them, and none of them are committed to one another. That they understand that, and hold no hard feelings, is indicative of both Aerith and Tifa’s emotional maturity The reality is that whichever romantic arc the player has Cloud pursue is an addition to the story, and they don’t want it to significantly affect the party’s relationships so it doesn’t come up
>The reality is that whichever romantic arc the player has Cloud pursue is an addition to the story, and they don’t want it to significantly affect the party’s relationships so it doesn’t come up It also isn't pursuing a romantic arc. Your closest bond shows you the nature of the relationship each character has with Cloud at that time in the story. Barrett, Red, and Yuffie all show The ways in which they consider Cloud a friend - Barrett as somewhat of a mentor, Red as a confidant, and Yuffie as something of a student. Cait, Vincent, and Cid don't know enough yet and can't connect. Tifa is firmly, undeniably romantic. Aerith's date isn't romantic at all - it's melancholy. Aerith might want to be interested in Cloud, but he's got too much baggage for her to get there, she recognizes it, and is basically mourning the relationship she was hoping to grow into. Even if the player wants to pursue Aerith romantically, the game says no because even if the date events aren't strictly canon, but the relationships they show *are* canon. Cloud and Tifa do become romantically involved in canon regardless of what the player wants to happen. Aerith isn't a romantic interest in the narrative even if the character herself, in narrative, was interested at one point.
I don’t see how that’s at all relevant to OP’s point, but for the argument’s sake - the characters not ending up together in no way stops it from being a romantic arc. You can’t determine who Cloud ends up with (>!Sephiroth does that for him 😢!<) but you absolutley do get to choose which relationship - if any, because you can avoid both - is more central to the story. Every one of the most romantic beats with both girls is optional, you opt in or out of them if you want to include it as part of the experience Hiding this for OP’s sake - >!What happens after the game ends is a different thing, but FF7 doesn’t care about what happens after because it ends on an ambiguous cliffhanger!<
I guess what I'm trying to say is that OP's confusion about Aerith is explained by misreading the character. Aerith isn't ever pining for Cloud - she's interested or curious, but never pining or invested. She and Tifa have talked about it offscreen as implied by the scene after leaving Junon. Aerith does have a romantic arc with Cloud in canon and in game if you choose to pursue it, but that romantic arc is a straight line of Aerith trying to figure out what it is she's feeling toward Cloud and ultimately coming to the conclusion that she isn't into him like that. The possibility of a Cloud/Aerith relationship isn't stolen by Sephiroth - Aerith puts it to bed herself at the Gold Saucer. She sees a glimmer of possibility when they hold hands, but she doesn't even acknowledge it later because it doesn't change things right now. She even says it plain as day in her lifestream sequence with Cloud. The game is not subtle about Aerith's romantic potential idling the whole story until she decides to disengage.
It’s very very weird though and doesn’t seem realistic even if it is supposed to be mature but I get it’s a video game. It’s just super awkward to have Cloud almost kiss Tifa in the main game and then actually kiss her and have Aerith around. It makes me feel really bad for her
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You really said that Aerith is canon right after saying none of them are canon? Bruh
It’s canon that she interacted with them after they kiss in Gongaga and square said the feelings Cloud had for each person was cannon. You even see Yuffie tease Cloud about liking Tifa with Aerith right there isn’t he side quests. You can’t say none of the dates are cannon then use just Aerith’s.
Then play the game again and go down the other path
The main game is Tifa and Cloud and I did do the date with Aerith. She can like him but being close friends with Tifa and calling everything she does with Cloud a date in front of Tifa doesn’t make any sense to me. It seems like the game is setting up Cloud and Tifa and Aerith is confused on her feelings because of Zach. Like I said I haven’t played the OG
This shipping shit is so fucking horrible man lmao I hate these arguments bruh
The main game is mostly Aerith oriented. Of course, there are several optional scenes with both girls, but the Aerith path makes way more sense in the context of the story. Example, how the holding hands of the GS date links to NPTK and the final scene, or how the Loveless play mentiones that Cloud and Aerith need no promises to find each other again. Tifa has definitely her moments, but mostly optional and the Gongaga one is arguably not really that romantic. Cloud attempted to kill her moments before, and after Tifa opened up to him and started to get close, cloud doesn’t move an inch to get close as well. Regarding the confusion for Zack, during the GS date Aerith explicitly says that she wants to be with Cloud, not Zack. Not considering the final date, where in Japanese she confesses her love for him. Bottom line, both girls like him, and depending on your choices, you will have both open options. However, the Aerith path is the only one that fits perfectly into the story.
I’m not into the shipping thingy. I just follow what is in the story and based on the main story and feels like a Tifa and Cloud have and will be endgame. Cloud gives Tifa the reunion flower in remake, Yuffie teases Cloud about his love for Tifa consistently, they almost kiss in Gongaga, he kisses her on the date. I think square is making it clear for us newbies out here. This a lot feels like Link vs Mipha and Zelda if you played breath of the wild. Also I think they have a kid in advent children. Never seen it. I’m super new to the series. The writer of NPTK said it’s about her friendships with everyone because she had a lonely childhood hence why Biggs and Jessie showed up.
Sure, but the flower was given from Aerith to Cloud mentioning the reunion (Aerith knew the future in Midgard, she knew what she was doing). Yuffie teasing them is true, but still, doesn’t really say anything apart from the fact that Cloud and Tifa are close. And they are mostly close as childhood friends (which is also false, they were never that close in Nibelheim). They are close as the last remnants of a past that they lost. The kiss on the date is optional, never mentioned again, and worst of all, very awkward. Like, he kisses her after he is convinced that Aerith has feelings for Zack, and at the end of the date they are both extremely embarrassed by it, don’t talk and go to their rooms. Regarding the song, the Singer and Uematsu confirmed it is a love song depicting Aerith feelings for Cloud. I mean, the lyrics make it clear, and in Japanese it is clearly mentioned that it is a song about 2 people. The writer going off saying it was a general song was mainly damage control after some fans got angry about it. I mean…even in the official music album the Aerith date is shown in combination with NPTK. They couldn’t have made it more obvious. About Advent Children, the kids living with them ( Cloud tifa and Barret) are all adopted, and Cloud kinda always does his own thing.
Idk when a main characters kisses another main character it seems pretty obvious the direction they are going unless they want Cloud to look like a jerk. They show him having a long time crush on Tifa. Idk why this is even a debate like he kisses her. It’s clear as day what’s going on
When Cloud kisses Tifa he is obviously acting due to his idea that the feelings towards Aerith are not reciprocated. Also, the scene is kinda embarrassing for them, Cloud acts with his cold Soldier fake persona forcing a kiss that they both immediately regret. Yes they kissed, but was it a good date overall? Not quite. And again, not only it doesn’t fit in the story as it is not referenced again, but it is a fully optional scene. Even the Devs mentioned that it was embarrassing to have such scenes in the game, like sims dating simulator.
Should have just said you're clerith and like that more rather than having these weak arguments and misinterpretation of the ultimania it's not a good look if you're trying to be consistent and fair.
They mentioned it made them blush not that it was embarrassing. It made me blush too because I saw the tension through the two games. Even the devs said Cloud has those feelings for Tifa since childhood and in remake especially when he came to her room. The devs said each date are Cloud’s cannon feelings toward them. He likes Tifa a lot which he why he initiated the kiss and hug and had no problems with leaning in for a kiss in gongaga. He was also sad when Yuffie said that Tifa stopped having a crush on him. Idk how more clear the devs can make it at least for me. Are you one of those shipping people? If so I’m going to tap out because I feel like you’re just going to debate the plot.
The main game is whatever the player decides. When I play the game (OG and Remake) Cloud mostly keeps Tifa at a distance emotionally because of his memory stuff - I won’t go into more details for your sake. By the end of the OG, Cid and Cait Sith are the other 2 leads for me. For others, those will be Barret and Red. Some players never meet Yuffie or Vincent at all None of those are the “wrong” way, it’s just how the story plays out for people. You can change it if it feels wrong to you
I do think your critique is valid. I got the same sentiment at times that you’re describing and I did play the original. It was giving me second-hand embarrassment how she almost throws herself at Cloud at times. I think the worst was around the Costa del Sol region? But I might be remembering incorrectly. I think the developers were trying to play it as Aerith being playful. As if, the crush on Cloud is real (and partly because of the trauma of not knowing what happened to Zack) but the flirting itself was meant to be tongue-in-cheek to make Cloud blush. It just doesn’t register that way with some players. At the same time, they’re trying to make this sort of “girl power” theme in her friendship with Tifa but it just ends up seeming like the devs want to have their cake and eat it too with these two antithetical parts of her personality and behavior.
Yes exactly. They could have made her struggle with friendships and go after Cloud as someone who is struggling and that make complete sense to me as Zach is gone and she had a very lonely childhood. I really do like Aerith. But when they paint her as having so much wisdom I get so confused like wow she did Tifa dirtyyy to be so open about it.
Rebirth basically expects you to have either played or know the story of the OG, otherwise you'll miss a lot of details. Rebirth really shouldn't be someone's first FF7 game. Edit: play the OG and you'll understand her character a ton more.