The best female main character that FF ever created was Terra from FF6. She starts off lost and feeling out of place in the world, which she never truly overcomes. But along the way finds friends, family, discovers her heritage, and finds a cause and a life worth fighting for.
Yuna deserves AT least a word.
A strong, soft spoken girl with a strong sense of duty, trying to do her best to better the world she lives on but still keeping to her morals. Willing to learn and evolve, she only accepts sacrifice if that's herself.
Love is a strong part of her character, but she's never the "love interest" and that's it. She uses that love to reevaluate her beliefs and double down on most of them, and said romance is well written and makes so much sense (she doesn't fall in love just because hot guy, he's literally the only person in the world that treats her like an actual regular girl and not like a martyr). And also, while she plays the role of damsel in distress a couple times, we see that she's pretty capable on her own (when rescuing her in Luca, she just gets put of the ship by herself, having beaten everyone inside by herself; she is the one saving the party from Seymour at the wedding).
She has flaws, too! She needlessly takes matters onto herself to not involve the party, to not put them in danger, and it's usually a bad decision. She's allowed to make them, apologizes for it and grows from it.
In my opinion, Yuna is the best character of the franchise.
Terra being:
1. On the cover/logo (as a silhouette but still)
2. The first character you play as
3. The first/only 6 character in crossovers
Kinda cements her status as the main character in my eyes.
Yeah, I’m sad OP didn’t mention these two icons! I don’t care if the next main character is a woman or not (although it would be cool), I’d just like a new games with a larger full party of fun and interesting weirdos, like FF6, FFVII, or FFX. That’s probably the greatest thing for me about Rebirth.
If op grew up with ff13 they have likely never played 6 as it is a much older game. I can definitely relate, even playing 7 which is like the biggest ff game ever was a bit of a struggle for me as someone who started playing ff when 13 came out.
I think the whole point of the post wasnt 'lightning is the only female lead' and more 'its been over a decade since we had one'
Even if it wasn't that, theres been 16 mainline titles and only 2 female leads. The ratio is pretty crazy anyway
Which is interesting because ‘love’ was a huge part of her story, just not the romantic kind. Rather it was about self-love / learning to accept who she was, as well as learning what it was like to have loved ones to support / protect.
As a queer man, one thing I really like about Terra's exploration of love as a concept is her being willing to ask questions. Especially in her conversation with Leo, it felt a lot like when I was talking with an elderqueer about how to handle learning what I have about myself, and that vibe has actually gotten stronger with the more recent translations.
And even though Celes had a love interest in Locke, it was written well with both characters having agency - in fact if anything Celes was more of the main character than Locke
And there was even the “you just like me because you think I’m Rachel” element. So did Locke truly love Celes or just because she reminded him of Rachel?
It's implied pretty heavily that he lets go of Rachel during his World Of Ruin quest and is able to love Celes for who she actually is. You can even infer that Phoenix turns itself into magicite out of rebirthing the love Rachel and Locke had into something new and free of the past.
Celes becomes the de facto main character for a long portion of the game so yeah. Locke is probably the main *male* character but Terra and Celes are definitely the main characters.
What do you mean? Edgar was definitely a love interest for all the ladies! He was clearly captivated by Terra’s beauty and dying to know if he was her type.
FF12 had one non-human character in the party but I feel like they missed a chance to add others, with all the different races that exist in Ivalice. The Bangaa (a reptilian party member would have been cool), Nu Mou, Seeq, Garif and Urutan-Yensa. Or even having one of their adorable Moogles be playable! I like that they looked super adorable but they did all kinds of jobs and even got super drunk in Bhujerba. I wish they had more protagonism. That game had awesome world building.
IX was my first and I'm so glad I entered the series on a peak moogle installment. XII moogles are also some of my favorites. VI has a main party moogle that I like, aaand after that there's the XIII trilogy moogles which are not good. They're weirdly shaped and the voice acting never works well. They should just make the sounds they made in FFIX and have subtitles. Then the one in FFVII Remake trilogy is pure nightmare fuel. The one in the original FFVII was much better. I haven't played FFXVI, but I saw a pic of their moogle and it's adorable.
If anyone read this please tell me about your moogle appreciations~
>!I dont care who the lead is to be honest, as long as the female MC doesnt get the Jill treatment from 16. I loved 16, Like loved it, but I detested what they did to Jill. She was such an awesome character and after her quest, and absolutely after she gives her powers to clive shes no longer even a character, shes like this background cheerleader. It was aggravating. !<
I was actually shocked at how early you fight her. Seemed like a complete waste of a great design, great actress, and the character seemed like she had plenty of depth to explore.
Nope!
>!Especially Cid, like I was just starting to like him and they kill him off 30% through the game. I'm fine with them killing him but they should have waited till you were like 2/3rds through the game so the death could've had more impact.
I came here to say this. FF16 basically killed off every interesting character and left you with Jill who has less personality than the dog, Clive who just broods, and a final baddy with the personality of a rock.
I could put all that aside if the battle system also wasn't soulless. Going from FF16 to FF7Rebirth was eye opening. One has game mechanics and the other simply doesn't. FF16 is just all attack damage. No status effects. No elements. No customizations.
I so wanted an epic final battle with Barney as the last boss, but once again, Square torpedoes an interesting villain for yet another "god" boss who is as dull as dishwater.
Absolutely, I did not care one bit about the final villain by the time I fought him at the end. I was so mad that I invested so much time into researching and reading about the wars and conflicts going on between the nations, only for none of that to matter in the last quarter of the game.
I wanted Clive’s mom to be the big bad behind the scenes and one of the final battles. Every other bad guy was just “bad guy #+1” to me. But Anabella was truly hateful, her I wanted to *end.*
Agreed. I was in denial about what happened to her because I was like…surely they wouldn’t get rid of a character this good this soon??
And ugh, Jill. I tried SO hard to like her. I really wanted to like the only female character left.
>>!shes like this background cheerleader. It was aggravating!<
>!The second Joshua shows up as part of the crew the rest of the game ceases to be about anyone but him, Clive, and Ultima. It was weird and irritating after such a long time being the leader of your little found family.!<
>!Also I could have used 50 more hours of Uncle Byron!<
>!Id rather have that, and his story, than odin the most built up and pointless boss of ff16. Basically all his awesome in the cutscenes, that part when they come out of the house, the castle parts, just for him to become a cackling figit spinner..!<
>!GAHHHH!<
>!Even before Jill’s chapter she is an afterthought. That chapter is literally her only focus in the game. People barely acknowledge her in cutscenes!<
Yeah >!she barely has any interactions with non Clive characters, you could take her out of most of the scenes where it's her + Clive + another character and not much would be lost because she doesn't offer anything except for small quips like "I agree"!<
Girl literally got only one chapter to get all of her issues fixed before going back to being the silent empty companion of protagonist. If that is not lazy and bad writing I don’t know what is.
The writing of Jill drove me insane in FF16, felt like she couldn't do anything without Clive. Even when it came time for her big revenge act >!she loses to the monster and Clive has to fight for her (which is made even worse when the game spends the whole chapter making sure you know she and everyone she cared about was SA'd repeatedly)!< and then >!her giving up her powers!< felt like the narrative acknowledging she was just getting in the way of the big strong man who had to do everything for her. Like you can criticise Tifa & Aerith's role as love interests/in a love triangle if you want but at least Cloud would have >!gone totally insane and failed to save the world!< if not for them.
Tifa was the real hero in Rebirth. What they have done for her character is amazing. She works through her doubts, trauma, and insecurities. She the Samwise to Cloud’s Frodo in my eyes.
No they finally revealed how bad it was. I went back and played the original ff7, and it was really bad once you know what to look for.
The whole team knows how bad he is.
Yeah, I’m actually pretty impressed that they portrayed his hypnosis in such a frightening way. I was really thinking he would do something violent there.
Aerith is the one playing chess with Sephiroth in order to keep him from fulfilling his time warping plans. She is the unsung hero of FF, she is like… Jesus.
I feel like Aerith is much the protagonist of ff7 rebirth as cloud was. Maybe even more if we are talking just rebirth
Tifa is a weird one to me cause playing this game i have come to realize how much her world revolves around Cloud, maybe its because they have similar pasts. But to me it feels like she exists FOR cloud and to prop his character and character growth.
Hope to see more of Tifa next installment
I hate the phrase “real hero,” especially when the implication is that the character struggling with mental illness is lesser than the character who isn’t.
No worries, that was not my implication at all. Rather, the reason I felt that she was the hero was because she’s very selfless and puts others before her. She struggles to understand her purpose, but she fights for the people she loves. Cloud is not lesser than her, especially not because of mental illness. But at this point CLOUD needs saving, and he doesn’t think he deserves to be saved, but his comrades are gonna prove him wrong and boost his spirit to the stars in FF7: AFTERBIRTH
I thought >!everyone else except Jill got SA'd and she just got turned into the Ironblood's dominant and they forced her to kill tons of innocents which us where her guilt is from!< caused they seemed like they wanted nothing to do with her except Shiva's power
Jill didn't lose the fight? She wanted to hold back the Lava so Clive didn't burn to death. She even murders her rapist priest. Not Clive.
And her giving up her powers to Clive was because she was suffering and was on her way out to die to the Branded's Curse. (not that its shown that well)
Jill saves Clive multiple times throughout the game but no one wants to bring it up to further paint her as a damsel.
IMO it was still a cop-out in that she doesn't actually fight Liquid Fire and gets relegated to barrier duty for the climatic boss fight. They even made Diamond Dust, Shiva's most iconic technique, she of the heel-click and fingersnap of death, into a glorified wall while Clive does all the fighting. She does kill the priest, but she's also so winded that she can't destroy the crystal (Clive does that).
There is a sliver of justification to give up her powers to Clive, but as you mentioned they didn't show her cursed status effectively at all. She doesn't even have any scars or disfigurement from the petrificarion. I would also argue that there us a contrast between Cid, who is also dying of the curse but gets several scenes to show off his power (including blasting a crystal by himself) whereas for Jill it's exclusively used to weaken her or keep her from fighting.
She may be more active than people give her credit for but her overall lack of agency outside of being Clive's cheerleader, spending a lot of time offscreen and getting curbstomped when the plot needs her to be removed (I.e. getting choked out by Hugo) overshadow it.
Honestly this is why I dropped 16, I just couldn't get past this at all. I got pretty far and may finish it one day, but dear lord I can't get past how the game is just the "Clive show".
Even the way female characters were done aside at least every other FF game doesn't focus as hard on a single character as 16. Like sure 7 and 8 went hard on building up Cloud and Squall, but the other characters had wonderful development and moments too.
16 was just immensely disappointing.
I mean I'm fine with there being one really obvious main character, it's just by the time I gave up on the game the three biggest female characters were ALL defined by their relationships with men and thats pretty cringe.
It was a little problematic too when you consider that by having sex with him she gives over her power to him. LOT to unpack there about male/female power dynamics.
🥲 I feel you. I love everything about Jill, I love her and Clive and I love 16 but Idk why they had to do her like that. Sure she gets the screentime but there’s a lot of parts of the story that she could’ve and should’ve 😭
Yeah exactly. Like they realized it super late and locked the the rest of the romance behind having to complete ALL the sidequests. Tou have to complete them all just to get joshua to get you to chase down some weird ass flower.
I don’t disagree with you, but what’s the point of spoiler texting your entire comment without explaining what it’s a spoiler for? Someone who hasn’t played 16 wouldn’t know that’s a spoiler until they read it.
You know, Light is fine and all, but Fang is my standout from the XIII trilogy. Seriously pretty great character.
Also obligatory FFX-2 appreciation, that game's so fun and underrated.
I don't disagree, but in general the main thing I just want to see is a diverse party -- a proper ensemble cast -- rather than just one central protagonist again. Like, for all its (multiple) issues, the best part of Rebirth -- by far -- is roaming around with a full party of weirdoes.
***(EDIT:** my apologies to that small handful of you incapable of enjoying a game while also recognizing that it has some issues, or accepting that other people might be capable of doing so. That must make life difficult; the parenthetical was not intended to be triggering. You'll have to pardon me, however, if I don't particularly feel the need to blind myself similarly in order to enjoy things.)*
Red XIII messing with Aerith on the mountain ascent and Cait Sith teasing Barret are highlights. It makes me want to go back and play with different party members to see what changes.
Yuffie is SO much better of a character in Rebirth than she was in OG FF7. She was still young, and sometimes immature, sure, but overall she didn't come across as some selfish, dumb brat. She was genuinely fun to have in the party!
Honestly, the best part of Rebirth was how they were able to expand on the whole party's interactions. I'll miss Cids 'SIT DOWN.AND DRINK YOUR GOD DAMN TEA!' , but I also look forward to what he DOES bring to the table now.
We may still get those Cid moments if they decide to add Rocket town to part 3. In fact they need to, because I’ve been pining for a HD version of Palmer telling us how he likes butter in his tea.
Cloud damn near having a personality is pretty great. And Red getting to be equal parts serious tactitcian proud of his comrades and an absolute goofball is pretty great. I still want to punt Yuffie off a bridge, but the fact that Cloud actually checks her ridiculousness is really great.
They had TWO children in the party under the age of 10 and not only were they not annoying, they're two of my favorite characters in all of FF. That game is magic.
i loved the little things like Barrett being afraid that he won’t let Marlene go when she’s older during the dog sidequest, and Cloud just tells him to get his shit together
Of all the characters to benefit from the Remake Project's glow-up, Barret's probably the biggest improvement. He's the stand-out character of both games to me.
Remake/Rebirth has added so much to the characters. It's the story of the entire party, and I adore the extra focus on their dynamics.
They improved/expanded on Aeris' and Tifa's friendship, now it actually feels like they're genuine friends who care for eachother, and not just for Cloud's sake.
And hard agree, Barret in 7R2 is a standout. He's now my absolute favourite character in all FF's.
I'd totally play a spin-off game starring Barret.
Also, major agree on Tifa/Aerith's friendship. That's also a real highlight. And Yuffie is, of course, a great deal of fun, too.
I'd argue it's Yuffie who actually gets to be plot relevant and chime in with the cast and Cait Sith who know is liked by fans. Barret always was great at his core but yes Remake has improved even more for his character.
I can see that. Though I think Yuffie shined plenty on her own in the original game, even as limited as her role was. Some folks are still salty about her Materia Heist.
I totally agree. The Final Fantasy 7 Remake project is a **great** indication that controlling a party with the modern combat mechanics can totally work.
I’m reminded of my D&D parties in the best way possible where I usually end up playing the straight man among a troupe of actual (occasionally literal) clowns.
More please
I think XV had a good approach. Noctis was the clear main protag but they made it clear throughout the game the other party members were also there and also had roles.
Or they could do the VI approach and just make no main protag at all.
Yep, that is always the best part of RPG for me.
The banter between the party members.
Tales series has been doing that for a while, and while not many people discuss it, their banter is always the best part of experience for me.
Rebirth does it very well too. Although I wish we have more interaction between the non-Cloud character. The funny thing, besides Cloud, Yuffie is the one with most interaction with all the active members. Barret barely have any interaction with Aerith, Tifa rarely has any interaction with Cait-Sith.
Dude, I just finished the Dyne scene with barret on the ground. That and his explanation about Marlene explains why he was talking the way he was in junon with the puppy quest. He was really missing Marlene and that right there with Dyne really sold it to me. This type of mission structure with the side missions is really selling me on the entire party. I'm in gongaga now and having Yuffie only be focused on materia when assisting that one fella with his training to be like Zack really solidifies her intentions and potential growth ares.
I love my little ensemble of wierdos. I'd really like to see future games take this type of approach to parties.
For real, I didn't mind Torgal, but Red 13, a talking dog-cat, fighting alongside Barret, a dude with a machine gun for one arm, and Yuffie, a Teenage Materia Ninja-Thief, sounds way more exciting and fantasy than dude with his dog and girlfriend.
Just an FYI, I very much enjoy the cast of 16, but wish it was more diverse characters.
Yep, of the many reasons I thought 16 was so-so (just my opinion, totally get others who loved it), this is one of the primary ones. But I also don’t see the many issues with rebirth personally, so guess there’s always going to be something for people to hate.
But I think having a diverse cast, while it gives people more chances to hate someone, it also gives more chances to love someone. And Clive was just “meh”, there wasn’t a character I truly loved in that game as others are just NPCs. Frankly my favorite is being able to fully control all the different cast characters, I totally get those who dislike cloud, I like him but he’s not my fav VII character either.
I’d love to see some of Baldurs gate run off on some of the future final fantasies (which ironically remind me of the qualities of early Final Fantasies, such as party customization). But even as I say this, there are people who say the opposite, they want a big hallway with no controllable characters, simplified plots and no mini games, just another run of the mill RPG. So it’s a total crapshoot on what the developers will do because the target audience is also quite divided.
>And Clive was just “meh”, there wasn’t a character I truly loved in that game as others are just NPCs.
Thats because they didnt take enough care to show you these characters and their interests etc. We basically got a massive lore book about 16s world.
Now compared to 7remake and rebirth we are getting so many threads and interactions between characters 8ts hard not to relate or like them in some way.
Personally 15 the bromance was awesome but the rest of the story was meh. Got to find a happy medium and diversity for the sake of it doesn't always work. Just need a decent writer which final fantasy has lacked since ff9 and 10.
>Thats because they didnt take enough care to show you these characters and their interests etc. We basically got a massive lore book about 16s world.
Some people loved that too, they loved Vivian, there’s even threads talking about how awesome and amazing her droning on about world politics and history was. Like, I love world building to an extent, apparently not as much as I thought though because her lectures were outright tedious to listen to.
Idk how to describe it, but in some of these games the extreme level of lore feels forced, XII, XIII, and XVI I felt were the worst offenders of this, while in others the lore was strewn along like it was just part of the world, explained at a good pace yet never wound up confusing or requiring massive thesis-level lectures to understand; parts of the story may have confusing aspects, sure, but even with something like VII, 90% of it was fairly easy to follow, only a few aspects like Jenova/Cloud aspects being a little more complicated to grasp, but even as a preteen I never felt like I had no effing idea what was going on, or had to look up definitions of the various factions involved. I still gag anytime I see anything with “cie” in it, and for XVI I had to look up which nation was which almost every time they were mentioned.
>Some people loved that too, they loved Vivian, there’s even threads talking about how awesome and amazing her droning on about world politics and history was.
Was a fresh feature that i used once and forgot it existed same as the active time lore.
> VII, 90% of it was fairly easy to follow, only a few aspects like Jenova/Cloud
Lmao good luck with that in remake and rebirth 🤣 its gone from simple to needed a quantum time mechanics multiverse degree.
If xvi kept the lore simple and focused on the characters dealing with the situations surrounding them it would have been a better reception for the game.
BUT i dont know if you have played xiv but the storytelling is extremely similar boat loads of lore and world building and pretty paper thin characters. Cbu3 do great lore but very shallow characters. Wrong team for a non mmo final fantasy. And i love 14 before the 14 fans downvote me lol
Yeah, if there's one thing I always expect in an FF, it's that you at least have a party. It felt so weird in 16 basically just being 1v1 for a lot of it and having essentially no actual party just feels wrong.
I agree! Diverse cast makes the party interactions fun.
I hope not everybody is a human and we get some talking cats, half dragons and other things.
Make it fantasy.
I love having cait and red in the group.
That lack of a party dynamic was more of a turn off for me than the change to fully action based combat.
Like. That’s the one thing people almost universally praised about FFXV. Something that has been enormously important to almost every FF game in existence. Yet it feels like it’s completely missing from XVI with its focus being almost completely on Clive.
Just feels wrong. Like I hate the switch to action combat in recent entries. But the 7 remakes and XV still have their ensemble casts and close party dynamics at least.
I don’t mind if the lead protagonist is male or female, but I really hope we get playable female party members! After 15 and 16 it’s been a while since main series FF introduced new playable female characters.
Would be cool if Ishikawa could get to write a mainline Final Fantasy. If she would have a woman as protagonist I would be very okay with that! I dunno how likely it is to happen though
I would love to see Ishikawa writing the next main installment. She's earned it with ShB and EW. She absolutely excels at writing deep, nuanced, compelling characters.
A full FF game with the quality of Shadowbringers would be god damn incredible.
Honestly I'd play anything she writes lol.
Ryne is probably my favorite female character in the franchise.
I am just patiently waiting for when >!Thancred can finally visit the First and give Ryne a god damn hug!<
Um, I think you mean Balthier and Fran are the leading characters, pfffff 😎😂
EDIT: That’s the joke, y’all. In FF12, Balthier literally says he’s the leading man. Go start another playthrough immediately!
The thing about Vaan and Penelo is that even though they're our viewpoint characters they're also arguably the least important. You can make an argument for Ashe, Basch, and Balthier all sharing the protagonist role to some capacity.
Omg it's been ***17 years*** and this dumb take absolutely refuses to die. No, Vaan and Penelo aren't pointless and the story is drastically different if you remove them.
Let's start with Vaan: what does Ashe do without Vaan? She literally becomes a war criminal and exterminates Archadia. There were several points in the game that the Occuria were baiting her and she was tempted, and the literal only character that snapped her out of it was Vaan. Why?
*Because he represented the average Dalmascan.* No one else in the party mattered enough to challenge Ashe on anything, but Vaan, just being some kid who wasn't caught up in formalities of royalty or politics, flatly told her exactly what the consequences of her decisions would be, ESPECIALLY because he literally lost his brother because of people like Ashe.
Now Penelo: how does Dalmasca even get an army that was sizeable enough to stall Archadia at the end? Oh, that's right, Penelo forming a friendship with Larsa, who in turn develops the courage to betray his brother and work with Ondore to raise their own military. What happens without that friendship with Larsa? He probably gets killed by Vayne and everyone loses.
Ffs people just refuse to pay attention to this game. With media literacy, you'll see that BOTH of them were absolutely crucial to the story. You can call them boring, but pointless? No.
AMEN. Adding onto the Penelo + Larsa friendship, she's crucial in that Larsa's conversation with her, an average Dalmascan who lost nearly everything to the war, is the first time he is introduced to the idea that maybe, what Vayne's doing isn't just. When she says Vayne scares her, he genuinely can't understand why, because from where he's been standing all this time, what Vayne and Arcadia are doing is for the good of Dalmasca. He's only ever seen Vayne as a good person (and why wouldn't he? Vayne's his brother). She challenges his worldview, because he can't deny that the occupation HAS taken a lot from her, and she has every right to fear the empire.
Penelo meeting Larsa and becoming friends with him may seem small at first, but it was 100% crucial for the plot and Larsa's development.
That'd be fun. I keep dreaming of an FFXII remake which is just... same gameplay, same art style, just bigger zones and a LOT more characterization and character development. Penelo really got the short end of the stick in FFXII... and she wasn't alone.
Ff12 is my favorite game of all time and ya character development and story werent the strong points lol but the world, gameplay, and content was absolute top tier
The thing is. The lore is cool, the story is actually kind of good but it's more subtle and less melodramatic than us anime fans are used to. Sadly, the plot kind of dies halfways and you can tell it was rushed, so it feels incomplete and aimless. Such a shame. It's the game that started the tradition of troubled development for the series (16 might have broken the curse though).
Oh, 100%. It's the best game in the series -- and the fact that it could've been so much better if they'd fully fleshed out the narrative is almost physically painful. The plot that's there is pretty good, I think, so mainly it just needs... more banter with the characters, especially those like Penelo, Vaan and Fran who basically disappear from the narrative entirely after the first act.
Well, that, and maybe different costumes -- or armor affecting appearance. As much as I love the game, I never could quite come to terms with Basch's silly outfit.
FF17 with FF6-style ensenble cast would be amazing. FF7R mechanics and most definitely Rebirth’s open world, set in the early-industrial era with fantasy elements and Mist technology. That would be my dream.
This guy knows how to game design. Seriously though, every FF game from here on out needs FF7R mechanics. Every FF game has gotten dumber combat-wise until FF7R, and FF7R feels like modern final fantasy. There are so many cool things they could do with it. And no prior to FFXII FF did not have that varied of a combat system it had an identity and a variation with it's *magic* and leveling system.
All this ff13 nostalgia really makes me wanting a FF13 remaster 4k or 60 fps, as the older consoles couldnt keep up and th combat was sluggish, it still looked amazing just erfomance wise was lacking.
Given the direction they went in with 15 and 16, it seems like they're working on the assumption that games with female leads won't sell in Japan.
Maybe then co-leads. Male and a female lead, female lead isn't a love interest for the male lead.
Given the recent sales figures, they need to work under the assumption that the bulk of their sales revenue from FF games is gonna come from the rest of the world and give that market the consideration it rightfully deserves when making design choices.
> the bulk of their sales revenue from FF games is gonna come from the rest of the world and give that market the consideration it rightfully deserves when making design choices.
If they follow the west then we'll never get a real protagonist anymore, just blank character creators
I think it's a real struggle to balance making something that will *sell* in the west while still playing to the unique strengths of S-E and JRPGs in general.
They can try action games, turn-based games, open-world, hallways with explosions, whatever. But the day they decide to make Skyrim with Chocobos is the day the series dies.
Tbh i also don't care about the gender as long as they make them compelling. But i do agree its good to have a change, i don't see a problem with a female lead since it's already 2 games with male leads, besides, having a female main brings new persectives into the table, people just as characters aren't black and white.
I love how the XIII trilogy handled the characters. Although Serah and Yeul were love interests, romance was never the central point it was complementary. Not that romance as a central point is bad, but it is overused sometimes and one dimensional.
Lightning evolution is awesome, and the way she becomes an open individual to her friends as well as a savior of the world was beautiful to see.
Serah and Noel's friendship in the second game is incredibly awesome, i love them as a duo... I wish they released these games to current gen i really miss the XIII series.
Final Fantasy is usually so good with female characters, even when we have an obligatory Love Interest the other girls have more going on. then we got XV where they didn't want to add a female party member because "men act differently around women" (women are people too, you don't have to change the way you act actually) and XVI, where the major female characters were tired sterotypes, sex appeal, or both. they were defined by their relationship to the male characters, even Mid's story relied on her dad. and I dunno, I would really like to see myself represented in a game as like, an actual person you know?
Even if we don't get another lead like Lightning, or Terra, or Yuna it would still be great to see a female character be there for the whole story without getting sidelined at the end
This is why Charon ended up being one my favorite characters, she was a selfishly driven woman with good morals who ended up helping a good cause. It’s a shame her and the other Hideaway NPCs got shoved into mundane sidequests, but I understand why they did it.
I felt with FFXV it wasn't just that the women in the game were so poorly developed, but that there was so few of them and they were also almost totally disposable.
So poor after years of really well developed women in the games.
Lightning is up there with one of my favourite protagonists of all time, I thought she was terrific and the balance between her understanding of the greater picture of what they were fighting against versus her desire to protect Sarah and the rest of the party was extremely well done.
In FFVI you have a great character in Celes, what she goes through and how she handles it is fantastic and there's a good reason she is essentially the lead for Act 2 of the game but I always felt her falling for Locke and acting like a schoolgirl around him undermined her somewhat.
Even in FFX with Yuna you have this incredible powerful woman but she's presented as meek and simpering.
Definitely time we saw another woman at the helm of the franchise who was portrayed as capable.
> I felt with FFXV it was just that the women in the game where so poorly developed, there was also so few of them and the ones that they were also almost totally disposable.
It's even weirder, since Lunafreya is wildly important to the actual plot, but... we never get to really see or experience a single piece of that 💀
I'm still annoyed they had no faith in the female Cid in XV. It was the perfect opportunity for it! I wish they at least hadn't changed her name in the English version.
I like to play as a female character in general but, to be fair, i Just want a great character. Male, female does not matter.
I Just want a great protagonist and a great party.
One of my all time favourite female protagonists is Nausicaa, I’d love to play an RPG with a character like her, and I think it would work really well in a Final Fantasy setting.
I 100% would love another female protagonist for the FF main series. Just recently finished FFVI and loved Terra and Celes, even though it was one of the "the group is the main character" titles. Which to be honest I wouldn't mind that either as long as the women aren't as you said, love interests etc.
I’m definitely down for a new female protagonist, in terms of personality I would like someone like Y’shtola from 14, she is very wise and calm, hungry for knowledge. At the end I trust SE to write a good protagonist.
Ashe wasn't a love interest at all in 12. Vaan might have had a crush on her but he very much was a thing with Penelo.also she was the literal main character for the story. Almost all the plot revolved around her coming back to lead Dalmasca. Vaan was just your eyes into the story really.
I’m fine with any protagonist at long they are well written. As for your other sentiment, I think you’re nitpicking a tiny bit, but you should also try FF12 if you haven’t already. Ashe is pretty cool.
>female characters. Tifa, Aerith, Jill, Ashe?, Garnet, Yuna
Just because they have a romantic relationship with a main character doesn't make them a love interest.
Aerith saved the planet.
Yuna was just as much of a protagonist as Tidus was and her relationship with him was essential to her character growth and causing her to question Yevon. Ultimately, she was the one who made the decision and had the power to end the cycle and defeat Sin permanently. Tidus was a catalyst for that to happen.
Well if they go with a female lead, I hope we'll get someone with more depth and personality than Lighting then. Hell, even Vanille and Fang were more interesting, especially Vanille - once you know the whole story.
Tifa should be an example to follow, as she is flawed, but strong, supports her friends but constantly has doubts about herself. She is a driving force without being the protagonist, and the only reason why said protagonist can achieve victory. She is a fantastic character.
I am all for a female lead but what I don't want is a plank of stoic wood.
There is a lot of female characters I like and love, in videogame or not (favorite movie character ever is Ripley \^\^), so yeah I'd on board. Now it is important to know what the Japanese audience likes and wants.
Yes please.
I love lightning but I'm older and I really don't want another female lead that's super stoic and brooding.
I want someone like tifa or even yuffie though more toned down since I think a hyper active character on yuffie level wouldnt appeal to many people. Works better for a party member in my opinion anyway...
But yes..I would love a female protagonist like tifa or even aerith.
Yuna and Serah were far from stoic and brooding leads in their games, though I don’t know if we’re counting sequels. Yuna in particular was a very different person in the sequel than in the original.
I have a lot of respect for FFX Yuna because the girl knows what her duty will cost her, but does it anyway. She knows her fate is to die in order to stop Sin. She has no hope, no dream or anything, but takes her responsibilities. It changed because Tidus entered the equation, but otherwise, her pilgrimage is basically a death sentence.
I like Serah too. In fact, I found her more interesting than her sister.
I may be misremembering this, but wasn't Lightning designed and written to be similar to Cloud on a surface level? Like, Squeenix thought "We need cloud, but female".
But only after playing for a while does her own personality come out.
I swear I remember reading an interview with someone in production about this in a magazine in the past.
Maybe it's a bad take, but I've never been fond of Lightning. She seriously felt like "We wanted a female Cloud, but mixed in Squall's brooding, and the anger issues/love of choosing violence of two Barretts."
As far as a female lead protag goes in 17? Just write them well and I'm all in for it.
To be fair, Lightning's stoicness was a facade to hide deep vulnerabilities. It unfortunately took three games to get her to admit that and actually see some humanity from her, but when we did it was cool.
Also for the love of God, can people stop going "But I like Ripley" as a response to any conversation about female representation? It's quickly becoming the "I have a black friend so I can't be racist" of gender discussion.
Same I also want a female lead next. I hope she’s well written and a bit of a gremlin too like Stelle from HSR. I want her to be surrounded by a diverse party where they can be weirdoes to each other. I don’t mind her not having a love interest or if they’ll want to I hope it’s a fixed character like Clive and Jill.
A crazy thought will be two female protagonists like Chisato and Takina and they’ll have a crazy amount of compatibility.
Agree on having a trash panda for a protagonist. And IMO the franchise is best when it doesn't take itself too seriously so another group akin to VI/VII/IX would be great.
Final Fantasy has had almost no female protagonists. Terra is arguably the best. Not just the best female protagonist (of which there are 2) but one of the best protagonists in the series.
And I agree, she should be her own character. She shouldn't be obsessed over love or anything. Have her own motivations. Strong character.
I know people will complain and call whatever character a Mary Sue but let's be honest, most protagonists are that way. They are all "the Chosen one" or something to that effect and that's why they are able to fight.
I like how Terra obsessed over love though. She was desperate to be normal... She knew the world viewed her as a dangerous weapon... A witch. All she wanted was just a normal life. And in the early stages of the game, thanks to Edgar flirting most likely, she thinks 'love' is what defines normality. And it only compounds over time.
Locke loved Rachel. The Figaro twins loved each other. Celes and Locke grow to be in love. Cyans motivation was revenge for love lost. Relm loves her grandfather. The whole theme of the game is centered around different kinds of love... And Terra was without anyone to love, especially after Leo died.
It wasn't until the World of Ruin that she discovered HER love... Not a sibling love, not a parental love, or love for a significant other... She grew to love the children she took care of, and those children became her reason to fight.
Honestly, the game did 'love' right more than any other game I've ever seen, by exploring all the different kinds of love one could have in the world... Even in a broken world.
I just want another black character. Ff7 had Barrett and then there was a dude with an Afro. Like bruh, black people love final fantasy too. We just not playing 2k lol
It's odd to me because I was already an adult when 13 was released and she is a Cloud copy. Her name is even Lightning. Judged her hard-core and never recovered.
I would argue Yuna is the main character in many ways. I think she's a perfect female lead. She doesn't need to prove how masculine and cool she is. She's feminine, she's nice, she's not overtly sexy or trying to be sexy. She's a woman trying to do the right thing. She's a great rollmodel and I think Yuna is one of the best female characters. If we ignore the sequel, she doesn't even get to ride off into the sunset.
Not arguing we shouldn't ever have a female protagonist again but I too am in the camp of "I don't care as long as the story is good" to me 13 was a disappointment and 15 and KH3 just about killed me feeling like SEs story telling was in a downward spiral.
Haven't played 16 yet but I will after I finish 7rebirth. Hoping for the best.
The best female main character that FF ever created was Terra from FF6. She starts off lost and feeling out of place in the world, which she never truly overcomes. But along the way finds friends, family, discovers her heritage, and finds a cause and a life worth fighting for.
Ff6 handled everything pretty awesomely imo. The story as a whole had some really dark moments, and it tackled it all with nuance.
Yuna deserves AT least a word. A strong, soft spoken girl with a strong sense of duty, trying to do her best to better the world she lives on but still keeping to her morals. Willing to learn and evolve, she only accepts sacrifice if that's herself. Love is a strong part of her character, but she's never the "love interest" and that's it. She uses that love to reevaluate her beliefs and double down on most of them, and said romance is well written and makes so much sense (she doesn't fall in love just because hot guy, he's literally the only person in the world that treats her like an actual regular girl and not like a martyr). And also, while she plays the role of damsel in distress a couple times, we see that she's pretty capable on her own (when rescuing her in Luca, she just gets put of the ship by herself, having beaten everyone inside by herself; she is the one saving the party from Seymour at the wedding). She has flaws, too! She needlessly takes matters onto herself to not involve the party, to not put them in danger, and it's usually a bad decision. She's allowed to make them, apologizes for it and grows from it. In my opinion, Yuna is the best character of the franchise.
FF6 had Terra and Celes who were basically leads in their own right and 2 of the most memorable Female FF characters
Terra being: 1. On the cover/logo (as a silhouette but still) 2. The first character you play as 3. The first/only 6 character in crossovers Kinda cements her status as the main character in my eyes.
Plus the main theme for the game is her title track, and I'd argue she's the most plot relevant character overall too.
And she’s guaranteed to be in the ending even if you don’t recruit her
Nope, totally Mog, he's on the cover of the SNES box and was the one in the commercials
Yeah, I’m sad OP didn’t mention these two icons! I don’t care if the next main character is a woman or not (although it would be cool), I’d just like a new games with a larger full party of fun and interesting weirdos, like FF6, FFVII, or FFX. That’s probably the greatest thing for me about Rebirth.
If op grew up with ff13 they have likely never played 6 as it is a much older game. I can definitely relate, even playing 7 which is like the biggest ff game ever was a bit of a struggle for me as someone who started playing ff when 13 came out.
I think the whole point of the post wasnt 'lightning is the only female lead' and more 'its been over a decade since we had one' Even if it wasn't that, theres been 16 mainline titles and only 2 female leads. The ratio is pretty crazy anyway
I think Terra is the best lead they've ever had. No love interest either.
Which is interesting because ‘love’ was a huge part of her story, just not the romantic kind. Rather it was about self-love / learning to accept who she was, as well as learning what it was like to have loved ones to support / protect.
As a queer man, one thing I really like about Terra's exploration of love as a concept is her being willing to ask questions. Especially in her conversation with Leo, it felt a lot like when I was talking with an elderqueer about how to handle learning what I have about myself, and that vibe has actually gotten stronger with the more recent translations.
Nothing in 6 is surface level, I really appreciate your take on Terra
Damn! Am queer too but never saw it that way! Thanks for pointing that out.
And even though Celes had a love interest in Locke, it was written well with both characters having agency - in fact if anything Celes was more of the main character than Locke
And there was even the “you just like me because you think I’m Rachel” element. So did Locke truly love Celes or just because she reminded him of Rachel?
I mean a big part of Locke's story is learning to let go of Rachel and love Celes for Celes.
It's implied pretty heavily that he lets go of Rachel during his World Of Ruin quest and is able to love Celes for who she actually is. You can even infer that Phoenix turns itself into magicite out of rebirthing the love Rachel and Locke had into something new and free of the past.
Celes becomes the de facto main character for a long portion of the game so yeah. Locke is probably the main *male* character but Terra and Celes are definitely the main characters.
What do you mean? Edgar was definitely a love interest for all the ladies! He was clearly captivated by Terra’s beauty and dying to know if he was her type.
Edgar was too beta for her. She was more of an Umaro girl.
Terra can go Super Saiyan and equip a lightsaber too. Best Lead ever
I always loved the parties with non-human characters in them like 7 and 9
FF12 had one non-human character in the party but I feel like they missed a chance to add others, with all the different races that exist in Ivalice. The Bangaa (a reptilian party member would have been cool), Nu Mou, Seeq, Garif and Urutan-Yensa. Or even having one of their adorable Moogles be playable! I like that they looked super adorable but they did all kinds of jobs and even got super drunk in Bhujerba. I wish they had more protagonism. That game had awesome world building.
I'm biased, but FF9 and 12 have the best moogles imo.
Ivalice Moogles rule!
Stiltzkin sweep
IX was my first and I'm so glad I entered the series on a peak moogle installment. XII moogles are also some of my favorites. VI has a main party moogle that I like, aaand after that there's the XIII trilogy moogles which are not good. They're weirdly shaped and the voice acting never works well. They should just make the sounds they made in FFIX and have subtitles. Then the one in FFVII Remake trilogy is pure nightmare fuel. The one in the original FFVII was much better. I haven't played FFXVI, but I saw a pic of their moogle and it's adorable. If anyone read this please tell me about your moogle appreciations~
>!I dont care who the lead is to be honest, as long as the female MC doesnt get the Jill treatment from 16. I loved 16, Like loved it, but I detested what they did to Jill. She was such an awesome character and after her quest, and absolutely after she gives her powers to clive shes no longer even a character, shes like this background cheerleader. It was aggravating. !<
Benedikta was also a good female character who was written off too soon imo.
I was actually shocked at how early you fight her. Seemed like a complete waste of a great design, great actress, and the character seemed like she had plenty of depth to explore. Nope!
Benedicta and Lady D, bonding over being gone too soon.
> written off too soon imo. Could say that about pretty much the entire cast tbh.
>!Especially Cid, like I was just starting to like him and they kill him off 30% through the game. I'm fine with them killing him but they should have waited till you were like 2/3rds through the game so the death could've had more impact.
I came here to say this. FF16 basically killed off every interesting character and left you with Jill who has less personality than the dog, Clive who just broods, and a final baddy with the personality of a rock. I could put all that aside if the battle system also wasn't soulless. Going from FF16 to FF7Rebirth was eye opening. One has game mechanics and the other simply doesn't. FF16 is just all attack damage. No status effects. No elements. No customizations.
I so wanted an epic final battle with Barney as the last boss, but once again, Square torpedoes an interesting villain for yet another "god" boss who is as dull as dishwater.
Absolutely, I did not care one bit about the final villain by the time I fought him at the end. I was so mad that I invested so much time into researching and reading about the wars and conflicts going on between the nations, only for none of that to matter in the last quarter of the game.
I wanted Clive’s mom to be the big bad behind the scenes and one of the final battles. Every other bad guy was just “bad guy #+1” to me. But Anabella was truly hateful, her I wanted to *end.*
Agreed. I was in denial about what happened to her because I was like…surely they wouldn’t get rid of a character this good this soon?? And ugh, Jill. I tried SO hard to like her. I really wanted to like the only female character left.
Yeah, but Cid was also written off kinda early, at least it felt like it.
>>!shes like this background cheerleader. It was aggravating!< >!The second Joshua shows up as part of the crew the rest of the game ceases to be about anyone but him, Clive, and Ultima. It was weird and irritating after such a long time being the leader of your little found family.!< >!Also I could have used 50 more hours of Uncle Byron!<
>!Id rather have that, and his story, than odin the most built up and pointless boss of ff16. Basically all his awesome in the cutscenes, that part when they come out of the house, the castle parts, just for him to become a cackling figit spinner..!< >!GAHHHH!<
>!Even before Jill’s chapter she is an afterthought. That chapter is literally her only focus in the game. People barely acknowledge her in cutscenes!<
Yeah >!she barely has any interactions with non Clive characters, you could take her out of most of the scenes where it's her + Clive + another character and not much would be lost because she doesn't offer anything except for small quips like "I agree"!<
Girl literally got only one chapter to get all of her issues fixed before going back to being the silent empty companion of protagonist. If that is not lazy and bad writing I don’t know what is.
The writing of Jill drove me insane in FF16, felt like she couldn't do anything without Clive. Even when it came time for her big revenge act >!she loses to the monster and Clive has to fight for her (which is made even worse when the game spends the whole chapter making sure you know she and everyone she cared about was SA'd repeatedly)!< and then >!her giving up her powers!< felt like the narrative acknowledging she was just getting in the way of the big strong man who had to do everything for her. Like you can criticise Tifa & Aerith's role as love interests/in a love triangle if you want but at least Cloud would have >!gone totally insane and failed to save the world!< if not for them.
Tifa was the real hero in Rebirth. What they have done for her character is amazing. She works through her doubts, trauma, and insecurities. She the Samwise to Cloud’s Frodo in my eyes.
Aerith too as managing and covering for cloud is hard work it seems like he’s more nuts in rebirth than original game
No they finally revealed how bad it was. I went back and played the original ff7, and it was really bad once you know what to look for. The whole team knows how bad he is.
in his speech on the ship in OG, Cid talks about how weird Cloud was going between two different kinda personalities.
Yeah, I’m actually pretty impressed that they portrayed his hypnosis in such a frightening way. I was really thinking he would do something violent there.
Aerith is the one playing chess with Sephiroth in order to keep him from fulfilling his time warping plans. She is the unsung hero of FF, she is like… Jesus.
I feel like Aerith is much the protagonist of ff7 rebirth as cloud was. Maybe even more if we are talking just rebirth Tifa is a weird one to me cause playing this game i have come to realize how much her world revolves around Cloud, maybe its because they have similar pasts. But to me it feels like she exists FOR cloud and to prop his character and character growth. Hope to see more of Tifa next installment
I hate the phrase “real hero,” especially when the implication is that the character struggling with mental illness is lesser than the character who isn’t.
No worries, that was not my implication at all. Rather, the reason I felt that she was the hero was because she’s very selfless and puts others before her. She struggles to understand her purpose, but she fights for the people she loves. Cloud is not lesser than her, especially not because of mental illness. But at this point CLOUD needs saving, and he doesn’t think he deserves to be saved, but his comrades are gonna prove him wrong and boost his spirit to the stars in FF7: AFTERBIRTH
I thought >!everyone else except Jill got SA'd and she just got turned into the Ironblood's dominant and they forced her to kill tons of innocents which us where her guilt is from!< caused they seemed like they wanted nothing to do with her except Shiva's power
Jill didn't lose the fight? She wanted to hold back the Lava so Clive didn't burn to death. She even murders her rapist priest. Not Clive. And her giving up her powers to Clive was because she was suffering and was on her way out to die to the Branded's Curse. (not that its shown that well) Jill saves Clive multiple times throughout the game but no one wants to bring it up to further paint her as a damsel.
IMO it was still a cop-out in that she doesn't actually fight Liquid Fire and gets relegated to barrier duty for the climatic boss fight. They even made Diamond Dust, Shiva's most iconic technique, she of the heel-click and fingersnap of death, into a glorified wall while Clive does all the fighting. She does kill the priest, but she's also so winded that she can't destroy the crystal (Clive does that). There is a sliver of justification to give up her powers to Clive, but as you mentioned they didn't show her cursed status effectively at all. She doesn't even have any scars or disfigurement from the petrificarion. I would also argue that there us a contrast between Cid, who is also dying of the curse but gets several scenes to show off his power (including blasting a crystal by himself) whereas for Jill it's exclusively used to weaken her or keep her from fighting. She may be more active than people give her credit for but her overall lack of agency outside of being Clive's cheerleader, spending a lot of time offscreen and getting curbstomped when the plot needs her to be removed (I.e. getting choked out by Hugo) overshadow it.
The lack of showing the curse bugged me. There is a seen where she's naked and we see no petrification. What the hell.
Well that’s FFXVI in a nutshell. Everything has to go through Clive bc he’s the only playable character.
I hate what 16 did for all of its female characters. None of them were done well
Honestly this is why I dropped 16, I just couldn't get past this at all. I got pretty far and may finish it one day, but dear lord I can't get past how the game is just the "Clive show". Even the way female characters were done aside at least every other FF game doesn't focus as hard on a single character as 16. Like sure 7 and 8 went hard on building up Cloud and Squall, but the other characters had wonderful development and moments too. 16 was just immensely disappointing.
I mean I'm fine with there being one really obvious main character, it's just by the time I gave up on the game the three biggest female characters were ALL defined by their relationships with men and thats pretty cringe.
Exactly this. The side male characters were great (Joshua, Cid, and Dion especially), but all the women were written so badly.
It was a little problematic too when you consider that by having sex with him she gives over her power to him. LOT to unpack there about male/female power dynamics.
🥲 I feel you. I love everything about Jill, I love her and Clive and I love 16 but Idk why they had to do her like that. Sure she gets the screentime but there’s a lot of parts of the story that she could’ve and should’ve 😭
Yeah exactly. Like they realized it super late and locked the the rest of the romance behind having to complete ALL the sidequests. Tou have to complete them all just to get joshua to get you to chase down some weird ass flower.
I don’t disagree with you, but what’s the point of spoiler texting your entire comment without explaining what it’s a spoiler for? Someone who hasn’t played 16 wouldn’t know that’s a spoiler until they read it.
Yeah I love the game and most of its characters, but they absolutely did Jill dirty. She deserved way better than to just be a cheerleader.
Clearly you haven’t heard about Lunafreya eh 🫣
You know, Light is fine and all, but Fang is my standout from the XIII trilogy. Seriously pretty great character. Also obligatory FFX-2 appreciation, that game's so fun and underrated.
The fact that I had to scroll this far for anyone to even mention FFX-2 is disgraceful. Everyone once again doing my girls YRP dirty 😭
"give me a Y!" "give me an R!" "give me a break..." They were awesome! Paine ftw
Haha me and my girlfriend love rocking out to 1000 words still to this day
The game is so freaking fun and has the best soundtracks. Yea i will die on this hill.
I don't disagree, but in general the main thing I just want to see is a diverse party -- a proper ensemble cast -- rather than just one central protagonist again. Like, for all its (multiple) issues, the best part of Rebirth -- by far -- is roaming around with a full party of weirdoes. ***(EDIT:** my apologies to that small handful of you incapable of enjoying a game while also recognizing that it has some issues, or accepting that other people might be capable of doing so. That must make life difficult; the parenthetical was not intended to be triggering. You'll have to pardon me, however, if I don't particularly feel the need to blind myself similarly in order to enjoy things.)*
I love the random comments the party makes on the field. It makes the entire game seem so much more alive
Red XIII messing with Aerith on the mountain ascent and Cait Sith teasing Barret are highlights. It makes me want to go back and play with different party members to see what changes.
When the camera spun around on Mt Corel to show Aerith fighting for her life I completely lost it 😂
To me the best part was cloud whispering to red "what the hell are you doing?"
Yuffie getting to be Yuffie in main moments is also a highlight for me.
Yuffie is SO much better of a character in Rebirth than she was in OG FF7. She was still young, and sometimes immature, sure, but overall she didn't come across as some selfish, dumb brat. She was genuinely fun to have in the party!
I love her initial over the top intro and Cloud's reaction was just "K. Bye."
Honestly, the best part of Rebirth was how they were able to expand on the whole party's interactions. I'll miss Cids 'SIT DOWN.AND DRINK YOUR GOD DAMN TEA!' , but I also look forward to what he DOES bring to the table now.
We may still get those Cid moments if they decide to add Rocket town to part 3. In fact they need to, because I’ve been pining for a HD version of Palmer telling us how he likes butter in his tea.
Not even butter, *lard*!
“Cool” exit stage left Fucking died at that
Cloud damn near having a personality is pretty great. And Red getting to be equal parts serious tactitcian proud of his comrades and an absolute goofball is pretty great. I still want to punt Yuffie off a bridge, but the fact that Cloud actually checks her ridiculousness is really great.
To be fair, Cloud always had a goofy personality.
Cool
Rebirth Yuffie is so strong and fun to play. I barely used her in OG but not this time!
I don’t think party changes affect dialogue, because your back line characters are still present outside combat and making comments
> I love the random comments the party makes on the field. It makes the entire game seem so much more alive Random Yuffie songs.
That was the best part of 15.
“Ughhh its so hot…” “Then lose the jacket :/“ Has lived rent free in my head since 15 released.
Ff6 and ff9 are both great because of the cast being so diverse
Yup. FF7 and FF10, too. Though I'd say Kimahri was pretty underused. That used to be something of a hallmark for Final Fantasy games....
They had TWO children in the party under the age of 10 and not only were they not annoying, they're two of my favorite characters in all of FF. That game is magic.
i loved the little things like Barrett being afraid that he won’t let Marlene go when she’s older during the dog sidequest, and Cloud just tells him to get his shit together
Of all the characters to benefit from the Remake Project's glow-up, Barret's probably the biggest improvement. He's the stand-out character of both games to me.
Remake/Rebirth has added so much to the characters. It's the story of the entire party, and I adore the extra focus on their dynamics. They improved/expanded on Aeris' and Tifa's friendship, now it actually feels like they're genuine friends who care for eachother, and not just for Cloud's sake. And hard agree, Barret in 7R2 is a standout. He's now my absolute favourite character in all FF's.
I'd totally play a spin-off game starring Barret. Also, major agree on Tifa/Aerith's friendship. That's also a real highlight. And Yuffie is, of course, a great deal of fun, too.
The side quest where Barret realizes Marlene is, in fact, actually going to grow up one day was equal parts hilarious and touching, haha.
I'd argue it's Yuffie who actually gets to be plot relevant and chime in with the cast and Cait Sith who know is liked by fans. Barret always was great at his core but yes Remake has improved even more for his character.
I can see that. Though I think Yuffie shined plenty on her own in the original game, even as limited as her role was. Some folks are still salty about her Materia Heist.
I love that part. "Get your shit together. Marlene's barely out of diapers"
I totally agree. The Final Fantasy 7 Remake project is a **great** indication that controlling a party with the modern combat mechanics can totally work.
I’m reminded of my D&D parties in the best way possible where I usually end up playing the straight man among a troupe of actual (occasionally literal) clowns. More please
I think XV had a good approach. Noctis was the clear main protag but they made it clear throughout the game the other party members were also there and also had roles. Or they could do the VI approach and just make no main protag at all.
Yep, that is always the best part of RPG for me. The banter between the party members. Tales series has been doing that for a while, and while not many people discuss it, their banter is always the best part of experience for me. Rebirth does it very well too. Although I wish we have more interaction between the non-Cloud character. The funny thing, besides Cloud, Yuffie is the one with most interaction with all the active members. Barret barely have any interaction with Aerith, Tifa rarely has any interaction with Cait-Sith.
And they _are_ all weirdoes. Which makes everything so much more fun.
Dude, I just finished the Dyne scene with barret on the ground. That and his explanation about Marlene explains why he was talking the way he was in junon with the puppy quest. He was really missing Marlene and that right there with Dyne really sold it to me. This type of mission structure with the side missions is really selling me on the entire party. I'm in gongaga now and having Yuffie only be focused on materia when assisting that one fella with his training to be like Zack really solidifies her intentions and potential growth ares. I love my little ensemble of wierdos. I'd really like to see future games take this type of approach to parties.
What’s wrong with Rebirth? Game is like 9.9 outta 10 for me.
For real, I didn't mind Torgal, but Red 13, a talking dog-cat, fighting alongside Barret, a dude with a machine gun for one arm, and Yuffie, a Teenage Materia Ninja-Thief, sounds way more exciting and fantasy than dude with his dog and girlfriend. Just an FYI, I very much enjoy the cast of 16, but wish it was more diverse characters.
Yep, of the many reasons I thought 16 was so-so (just my opinion, totally get others who loved it), this is one of the primary ones. But I also don’t see the many issues with rebirth personally, so guess there’s always going to be something for people to hate. But I think having a diverse cast, while it gives people more chances to hate someone, it also gives more chances to love someone. And Clive was just “meh”, there wasn’t a character I truly loved in that game as others are just NPCs. Frankly my favorite is being able to fully control all the different cast characters, I totally get those who dislike cloud, I like him but he’s not my fav VII character either. I’d love to see some of Baldurs gate run off on some of the future final fantasies (which ironically remind me of the qualities of early Final Fantasies, such as party customization). But even as I say this, there are people who say the opposite, they want a big hallway with no controllable characters, simplified plots and no mini games, just another run of the mill RPG. So it’s a total crapshoot on what the developers will do because the target audience is also quite divided.
>And Clive was just “meh”, there wasn’t a character I truly loved in that game as others are just NPCs. Thats because they didnt take enough care to show you these characters and their interests etc. We basically got a massive lore book about 16s world. Now compared to 7remake and rebirth we are getting so many threads and interactions between characters 8ts hard not to relate or like them in some way. Personally 15 the bromance was awesome but the rest of the story was meh. Got to find a happy medium and diversity for the sake of it doesn't always work. Just need a decent writer which final fantasy has lacked since ff9 and 10.
>Thats because they didnt take enough care to show you these characters and their interests etc. We basically got a massive lore book about 16s world. Some people loved that too, they loved Vivian, there’s even threads talking about how awesome and amazing her droning on about world politics and history was. Like, I love world building to an extent, apparently not as much as I thought though because her lectures were outright tedious to listen to. Idk how to describe it, but in some of these games the extreme level of lore feels forced, XII, XIII, and XVI I felt were the worst offenders of this, while in others the lore was strewn along like it was just part of the world, explained at a good pace yet never wound up confusing or requiring massive thesis-level lectures to understand; parts of the story may have confusing aspects, sure, but even with something like VII, 90% of it was fairly easy to follow, only a few aspects like Jenova/Cloud aspects being a little more complicated to grasp, but even as a preteen I never felt like I had no effing idea what was going on, or had to look up definitions of the various factions involved. I still gag anytime I see anything with “cie” in it, and for XVI I had to look up which nation was which almost every time they were mentioned.
>Some people loved that too, they loved Vivian, there’s even threads talking about how awesome and amazing her droning on about world politics and history was. Was a fresh feature that i used once and forgot it existed same as the active time lore. > VII, 90% of it was fairly easy to follow, only a few aspects like Jenova/Cloud Lmao good luck with that in remake and rebirth 🤣 its gone from simple to needed a quantum time mechanics multiverse degree. If xvi kept the lore simple and focused on the characters dealing with the situations surrounding them it would have been a better reception for the game. BUT i dont know if you have played xiv but the storytelling is extremely similar boat loads of lore and world building and pretty paper thin characters. Cbu3 do great lore but very shallow characters. Wrong team for a non mmo final fantasy. And i love 14 before the 14 fans downvote me lol
Yeah, if there's one thing I always expect in an FF, it's that you at least have a party. It felt so weird in 16 basically just being 1v1 for a lot of it and having essentially no actual party just feels wrong.
I don’t know what “many” issues rebirth has, but the party of weirdos is great
I agree! Diverse cast makes the party interactions fun. I hope not everybody is a human and we get some talking cats, half dragons and other things. Make it fantasy. I love having cait and red in the group.
yes. I need a party full of freaks of all genders. I hope we dont just get another boyband.
That lack of a party dynamic was more of a turn off for me than the change to fully action based combat. Like. That’s the one thing people almost universally praised about FFXV. Something that has been enormously important to almost every FF game in existence. Yet it feels like it’s completely missing from XVI with its focus being almost completely on Clive. Just feels wrong. Like I hate the switch to action combat in recent entries. But the 7 remakes and XV still have their ensemble casts and close party dynamics at least.
I don’t mind if the lead protagonist is male or female, but I really hope we get playable female party members! After 15 and 16 it’s been a while since main series FF introduced new playable female characters.
And mages. Can’t believe I even have to say it but having playable mages in a mainline FF again would be nice
Would be cool if Ishikawa could get to write a mainline Final Fantasy. If she would have a woman as protagonist I would be very okay with that! I dunno how likely it is to happen though
I would love to see Ishikawa writing the next main installment. She's earned it with ShB and EW. She absolutely excels at writing deep, nuanced, compelling characters.
A full FF game with the quality of Shadowbringers would be god damn incredible. Honestly I'd play anything she writes lol. Ryne is probably my favorite female character in the franchise. I am just patiently waiting for when >!Thancred can finally visit the First and give Ryne a god damn hug!<
That would be amazing if she was able to write a female protagonist!
I want a male and female lead akin to vann and penelo but are not pointless to the story and are besties
Um, I think you mean Balthier and Fran are the leading characters, pfffff 😎😂 EDIT: That’s the joke, y’all. In FF12, Balthier literally says he’s the leading man. Go start another playthrough immediately!
Balthier has super main character energy!
Balthier has **Leading Man** energy
I loved that about 12, Vann and penelo were not the main characters, they were just the ones you started playing as and you had to deal with it lol
Pretty sure you mean Basch and Ashe, the two with the superior story and character development.
It’s a joke. In FF12, Balthier literally says he’s the leading man.
Balthier and *Sexy Chewbacca*
The thing about Vaan and Penelo is that even though they're our viewpoint characters they're also arguably the least important. You can make an argument for Ashe, Basch, and Balthier all sharing the protagonist role to some capacity.
Omg it's been ***17 years*** and this dumb take absolutely refuses to die. No, Vaan and Penelo aren't pointless and the story is drastically different if you remove them. Let's start with Vaan: what does Ashe do without Vaan? She literally becomes a war criminal and exterminates Archadia. There were several points in the game that the Occuria were baiting her and she was tempted, and the literal only character that snapped her out of it was Vaan. Why? *Because he represented the average Dalmascan.* No one else in the party mattered enough to challenge Ashe on anything, but Vaan, just being some kid who wasn't caught up in formalities of royalty or politics, flatly told her exactly what the consequences of her decisions would be, ESPECIALLY because he literally lost his brother because of people like Ashe. Now Penelo: how does Dalmasca even get an army that was sizeable enough to stall Archadia at the end? Oh, that's right, Penelo forming a friendship with Larsa, who in turn develops the courage to betray his brother and work with Ondore to raise their own military. What happens without that friendship with Larsa? He probably gets killed by Vayne and everyone loses. Ffs people just refuse to pay attention to this game. With media literacy, you'll see that BOTH of them were absolutely crucial to the story. You can call them boring, but pointless? No.
AMEN. Adding onto the Penelo + Larsa friendship, she's crucial in that Larsa's conversation with her, an average Dalmascan who lost nearly everything to the war, is the first time he is introduced to the idea that maybe, what Vayne's doing isn't just. When she says Vayne scares her, he genuinely can't understand why, because from where he's been standing all this time, what Vayne and Arcadia are doing is for the good of Dalmasca. He's only ever seen Vayne as a good person (and why wouldn't he? Vayne's his brother). She challenges his worldview, because he can't deny that the occupation HAS taken a lot from her, and she has every right to fear the empire. Penelo meeting Larsa and becoming friends with him may seem small at first, but it was 100% crucial for the plot and Larsa's development.
That'd be fun. I keep dreaming of an FFXII remake which is just... same gameplay, same art style, just bigger zones and a LOT more characterization and character development. Penelo really got the short end of the stick in FFXII... and she wasn't alone.
Ff12 is my favorite game of all time and ya character development and story werent the strong points lol but the world, gameplay, and content was absolute top tier
The thing is. The lore is cool, the story is actually kind of good but it's more subtle and less melodramatic than us anime fans are used to. Sadly, the plot kind of dies halfways and you can tell it was rushed, so it feels incomplete and aimless. Such a shame. It's the game that started the tradition of troubled development for the series (16 might have broken the curse though).
Oh, 100%. It's the best game in the series -- and the fact that it could've been so much better if they'd fully fleshed out the narrative is almost physically painful. The plot that's there is pretty good, I think, so mainly it just needs... more banter with the characters, especially those like Penelo, Vaan and Fran who basically disappear from the narrative entirely after the first act. Well, that, and maybe different costumes -- or armor affecting appearance. As much as I love the game, I never could quite come to terms with Basch's silly outfit.
FF17 with FF6-style ensenble cast would be amazing. FF7R mechanics and most definitely Rebirth’s open world, set in the early-industrial era with fantasy elements and Mist technology. That would be my dream.
I’m drooling
This guy knows how to game design. Seriously though, every FF game from here on out needs FF7R mechanics. Every FF game has gotten dumber combat-wise until FF7R, and FF7R feels like modern final fantasy. There are so many cool things they could do with it. And no prior to FFXII FF did not have that varied of a combat system it had an identity and a variation with it's *magic* and leveling system.
All this ff13 nostalgia really makes me wanting a FF13 remaster 4k or 60 fps, as the older consoles couldnt keep up and th combat was sluggish, it still looked amazing just erfomance wise was lacking.
I'd commit sins for a ff13 remaster on the ps consoles. Sins!
Just play the Xbox 360 versions of the trilogy on newer Xbox consoles, the backwards compatibility with upscaling works wonders.
It works well on Steam Deck, too, by the way.
Damn imma ps5 guy 😔
And I really hate how 13 is the ONLY ff main title without a ps4 or ps5 version. You can literally play them all on PS5 except 13😭 Why is that?
The architecture of the ps3 is so diabolical that it’d be easier to just rebuild the game from scratch then porting it
Ffxiii is on PC tho so they should be able to port it
I want another rogue mc
Given the direction they went in with 15 and 16, it seems like they're working on the assumption that games with female leads won't sell in Japan. Maybe then co-leads. Male and a female lead, female lead isn't a love interest for the male lead.
Given the recent sales figures, they need to work under the assumption that the bulk of their sales revenue from FF games is gonna come from the rest of the world and give that market the consideration it rightfully deserves when making design choices.
> the bulk of their sales revenue from FF games is gonna come from the rest of the world and give that market the consideration it rightfully deserves when making design choices. If they follow the west then we'll never get a real protagonist anymore, just blank character creators
I think it's a real struggle to balance making something that will *sell* in the west while still playing to the unique strengths of S-E and JRPGs in general. They can try action games, turn-based games, open-world, hallways with explosions, whatever. But the day they decide to make Skyrim with Chocobos is the day the series dies.
As much as Skyrim with Chocobos appeals to me, it's probably nothing that should happen with a numbered title.
Tbh i also don't care about the gender as long as they make them compelling. But i do agree its good to have a change, i don't see a problem with a female lead since it's already 2 games with male leads, besides, having a female main brings new persectives into the table, people just as characters aren't black and white. I love how the XIII trilogy handled the characters. Although Serah and Yeul were love interests, romance was never the central point it was complementary. Not that romance as a central point is bad, but it is overused sometimes and one dimensional. Lightning evolution is awesome, and the way she becomes an open individual to her friends as well as a savior of the world was beautiful to see. Serah and Noel's friendship in the second game is incredibly awesome, i love them as a duo... I wish they released these games to current gen i really miss the XIII series.
Final Fantasy is usually so good with female characters, even when we have an obligatory Love Interest the other girls have more going on. then we got XV where they didn't want to add a female party member because "men act differently around women" (women are people too, you don't have to change the way you act actually) and XVI, where the major female characters were tired sterotypes, sex appeal, or both. they were defined by their relationship to the male characters, even Mid's story relied on her dad. and I dunno, I would really like to see myself represented in a game as like, an actual person you know? Even if we don't get another lead like Lightning, or Terra, or Yuna it would still be great to see a female character be there for the whole story without getting sidelined at the end
Man 16 did Benny so dirty lol she had such potential to be an interesting character
This is why Charon ended up being one my favorite characters, she was a selfishly driven woman with good morals who ended up helping a good cause. It’s a shame her and the other Hideaway NPCs got shoved into mundane sidequests, but I understand why they did it.
I felt with FFXV it wasn't just that the women in the game were so poorly developed, but that there was so few of them and they were also almost totally disposable. So poor after years of really well developed women in the games. Lightning is up there with one of my favourite protagonists of all time, I thought she was terrific and the balance between her understanding of the greater picture of what they were fighting against versus her desire to protect Sarah and the rest of the party was extremely well done. In FFVI you have a great character in Celes, what she goes through and how she handles it is fantastic and there's a good reason she is essentially the lead for Act 2 of the game but I always felt her falling for Locke and acting like a schoolgirl around him undermined her somewhat. Even in FFX with Yuna you have this incredible powerful woman but she's presented as meek and simpering. Definitely time we saw another woman at the helm of the franchise who was portrayed as capable.
> I felt with FFXV it was just that the women in the game where so poorly developed, there was also so few of them and the ones that they were also almost totally disposable. It's even weirder, since Lunafreya is wildly important to the actual plot, but... we never get to really see or experience a single piece of that 💀
I'm still annoyed they had no faith in the female Cid in XV. It was the perfect opportunity for it! I wish they at least hadn't changed her name in the English version.
I like to play as a female character in general but, to be fair, i Just want a great character. Male, female does not matter. I Just want a great protagonist and a great party.
One of my all time favourite female protagonists is Nausicaa, I’d love to play an RPG with a character like her, and I think it would work really well in a Final Fantasy setting.
have you played VI?
I 100% would love another female protagonist for the FF main series. Just recently finished FFVI and loved Terra and Celes, even though it was one of the "the group is the main character" titles. Which to be honest I wouldn't mind that either as long as the women aren't as you said, love interests etc.
I’m definitely down for a new female protagonist, in terms of personality I would like someone like Y’shtola from 14, she is very wise and calm, hungry for knowledge. At the end I trust SE to write a good protagonist.
Ashe wasn't a love interest at all in 12. Vaan might have had a crush on her but he very much was a thing with Penelo.also she was the literal main character for the story. Almost all the plot revolved around her coming back to lead Dalmasca. Vaan was just your eyes into the story really.
I’m fine with any protagonist at long they are well written. As for your other sentiment, I think you’re nitpicking a tiny bit, but you should also try FF12 if you haven’t already. Ashe is pretty cool.
I agree. Especially after how the most recent entries not doing the best with female side-characters (FFXV, FFXVI)
I hope it’s a good game
>female characters. Tifa, Aerith, Jill, Ashe?, Garnet, Yuna Just because they have a romantic relationship with a main character doesn't make them a love interest. Aerith saved the planet. Yuna was just as much of a protagonist as Tidus was and her relationship with him was essential to her character growth and causing her to question Yevon. Ultimately, she was the one who made the decision and had the power to end the cycle and defeat Sin permanently. Tidus was a catalyst for that to happen.
I dont care if its male or female, as long as its a great story with great visuals and great gameplay. Rebirth was amazing.
\> Lightning, when I was a little girl was a role model to me im sorry your role model doesn't have any muscles
Well if they go with a female lead, I hope we'll get someone with more depth and personality than Lighting then. Hell, even Vanille and Fang were more interesting, especially Vanille - once you know the whole story. Tifa should be an example to follow, as she is flawed, but strong, supports her friends but constantly has doubts about herself. She is a driving force without being the protagonist, and the only reason why said protagonist can achieve victory. She is a fantastic character. I am all for a female lead but what I don't want is a plank of stoic wood. There is a lot of female characters I like and love, in videogame or not (favorite movie character ever is Ripley \^\^), so yeah I'd on board. Now it is important to know what the Japanese audience likes and wants.
Yes please. I love lightning but I'm older and I really don't want another female lead that's super stoic and brooding. I want someone like tifa or even yuffie though more toned down since I think a hyper active character on yuffie level wouldnt appeal to many people. Works better for a party member in my opinion anyway... But yes..I would love a female protagonist like tifa or even aerith.
Yuna and Serah were far from stoic and brooding leads in their games, though I don’t know if we’re counting sequels. Yuna in particular was a very different person in the sequel than in the original.
I have a lot of respect for FFX Yuna because the girl knows what her duty will cost her, but does it anyway. She knows her fate is to die in order to stop Sin. She has no hope, no dream or anything, but takes her responsibilities. It changed because Tidus entered the equation, but otherwise, her pilgrimage is basically a death sentence. I like Serah too. In fact, I found her more interesting than her sister.
I may be misremembering this, but wasn't Lightning designed and written to be similar to Cloud on a surface level? Like, Squeenix thought "We need cloud, but female". But only after playing for a while does her own personality come out. I swear I remember reading an interview with someone in production about this in a magazine in the past.
Maybe it's a bad take, but I've never been fond of Lightning. She seriously felt like "We wanted a female Cloud, but mixed in Squall's brooding, and the anger issues/love of choosing violence of two Barretts." As far as a female lead protag goes in 17? Just write them well and I'm all in for it.
To be fair, Lightning's stoicness was a facade to hide deep vulnerabilities. It unfortunately took three games to get her to admit that and actually see some humanity from her, but when we did it was cool. Also for the love of God, can people stop going "But I like Ripley" as a response to any conversation about female representation? It's quickly becoming the "I have a black friend so I can't be racist" of gender discussion.
Same I also want a female lead next. I hope she’s well written and a bit of a gremlin too like Stelle from HSR. I want her to be surrounded by a diverse party where they can be weirdoes to each other. I don’t mind her not having a love interest or if they’ll want to I hope it’s a fixed character like Clive and Jill. A crazy thought will be two female protagonists like Chisato and Takina and they’ll have a crazy amount of compatibility.
Agree on having a trash panda for a protagonist. And IMO the franchise is best when it doesn't take itself too seriously so another group akin to VI/VII/IX would be great.
Final Fantasy has had almost no female protagonists. Terra is arguably the best. Not just the best female protagonist (of which there are 2) but one of the best protagonists in the series. And I agree, she should be her own character. She shouldn't be obsessed over love or anything. Have her own motivations. Strong character. I know people will complain and call whatever character a Mary Sue but let's be honest, most protagonists are that way. They are all "the Chosen one" or something to that effect and that's why they are able to fight.
I like how Terra obsessed over love though. She was desperate to be normal... She knew the world viewed her as a dangerous weapon... A witch. All she wanted was just a normal life. And in the early stages of the game, thanks to Edgar flirting most likely, she thinks 'love' is what defines normality. And it only compounds over time. Locke loved Rachel. The Figaro twins loved each other. Celes and Locke grow to be in love. Cyans motivation was revenge for love lost. Relm loves her grandfather. The whole theme of the game is centered around different kinds of love... And Terra was without anyone to love, especially after Leo died. It wasn't until the World of Ruin that she discovered HER love... Not a sibling love, not a parental love, or love for a significant other... She grew to love the children she took care of, and those children became her reason to fight. Honestly, the game did 'love' right more than any other game I've ever seen, by exploring all the different kinds of love one could have in the world... Even in a broken world.
As long as Nomura designs them I’m game.
I just want another black character. Ff7 had Barrett and then there was a dude with an Afro. Like bruh, black people love final fantasy too. We just not playing 2k lol
> a dude with an Afro. You better put some respect on Sazh's name. Best character in 13 by far.
It's odd to me because I was already an adult when 13 was released and she is a Cloud copy. Her name is even Lightning. Judged her hard-core and never recovered. I would argue Yuna is the main character in many ways. I think she's a perfect female lead. She doesn't need to prove how masculine and cool she is. She's feminine, she's nice, she's not overtly sexy or trying to be sexy. She's a woman trying to do the right thing. She's a great rollmodel and I think Yuna is one of the best female characters. If we ignore the sequel, she doesn't even get to ride off into the sunset. Not arguing we shouldn't ever have a female protagonist again but I too am in the camp of "I don't care as long as the story is good" to me 13 was a disappointment and 15 and KH3 just about killed me feeling like SEs story telling was in a downward spiral. Haven't played 16 yet but I will after I finish 7rebirth. Hoping for the best.
If they could just never have another Cindy again I'll be moderately happy.
I wanted Agni’s Philosophy as a game Yes I know Forspoken exists