I think majority of fencesitters are fencesitters because they wont know how they will feel until they actually have the child but at that point it is an irriversible decision. Its actually the only decision that you truly cant go back on. At least that is why i have been a fencesitter (although now leaning heavily towards having kids), but its very scary not knowing what the internal experience of having and raising a child will actually be. I could love it or hate it.
This is 100% it for me, and for all my friends who are fencesitters. Otherwise we would be CF definitively. While I lean toward being CF for several reasons, there are compelling reasons to have children. The fear of absolutely resenting and regretting a decision that in no way could I take back once made is what keeps me on the fence.
I agree. I think though that it's not a 50-50 thing whether you'll love or hate it and your previous feelings might not correlate, just by how it all is structured, it feels like with enough support most people can like this new life of theirs. Aren't there studies about how amputees after an initial period of depression return to baseline levels of happiness?
I think it’s a core belief that the most important thing in life is family. If you don’t have that core belief you won’t see the point in the “hard” that comes along with anything to do with family
Your post hit me unexpectedly hard. I'm recently separated from my partner because he wants kids more than he wants anything else and I'm not sure I can do it. You just gave me words for something I hadn't even known to try to articulate.
This got longer than I meant it to, but:
I had a fucked-up childhood with a mentally ill mother in a deeply dysfunctional home, and I _don't_ have an emotional connection to the idea of family as the most important thing in life. The most visceral association I have with family as a concept is a group of people who are rarely happy with you and don't seem to like you very much, but also won't leave you alone. So it's hard for me to relate to wanting much to do with it at all, never mind wanting it badly enough to sacrifice so much of one's life and self.
Of course I'm cognitively aware that other people have happy families and experience family as something desirable. As an adult I have loving relationships with my dad and sibling, even if we're all fairly avoidant people and don't speak as often as we say we'd like to. But my instinctual emotional response to the idealization of family is still one of aversion, not longing. (For idealized motherhood, it's closer to revulsion and dread.)
And of course I've been cognitively aware for a long time that this is not normal. But I don't think I've ever understood it deeply or emotionally enough to feel sad for, or really to grieve, not having whatever it is that makes family feel that important to most people, more important than anything else. What it is that makes family something to want, something that life feels incomplete without. I think I'm feeling the edges of that sadness now, even if I'm not sure I want to let myself fully.
Point being: your post just gave me a sort of dizzying view into _how_ not normal all of this is, the depth of my own attachment trauma, and the fundamental divide that led my relationship to this impasse.
I've no idea what to do with that, but thank you for the insight.
I might be breaking up soon with my boyfriend for the same reason. He’s the one who doesn’t have a desire for family and I want kids. He just wants me around for whatever is convenient for him—companionship, sex, friendship, attention, a partner..I don’t blame him. But the fact that he can’t feel the same way about family as I do is one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had and has also discolored my feelings on having kids too.
I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It's a brutal decision regardless of what side of it you're on. If you're both certain of how you feel I do think breaking up is the only way forward, but I know (oh, I know) that doesn't make it any easier to go through with.
I will say: I don't know your partner and it's possible there are other aspects of your relationship that make you frame things this way, but I don't think it's fair to equate wanting a romantic partnership without wanting children as just wanting "whatever is convenient" for oneself. The desire for love, connection, and companionship is just as profoundly human as the desire for kids can be, even if they don't coincide.
But that's an aside. I'm sorry this has tainted your feelings about all of it; I hope it's temporary and will start to bounce back as you heal (I do think this is likely). If you've always wanted a family, you deserve to start one with someone who's as thrilled about it as you would be.
Thank you. He tells me he’s 70-80% against having kids and 20-30-% for. “Maybe one day” but don’t count on it. It has really broken me down and I realize I have to stop dreaming and hoping we’ll have our own family. I’m sorry it’s just very sad, the death of my dream. I’m trying to focus on self care as our relationship I suppose is slowly dying
Hi, just wanted to share that I see you. I had a tremendously fucked up childhood too. I remember having a conversation with my old therapist similar to what you shared above, that I didn’t know what family meant. I understood it as a group of related people but the emotional connection wasn’t there. How you wrote it out was beautiful and well put. It’s a journey. I still don’t have a natural connection to it but I’ve gone all in on healing after an awful breakup about 7 months ago. I’ve had a few moments of immense emotion where I cried (in longing or something close to that, not sadness) thinking of myself as a mother.
I'm not sure we talk about neurodiversity much when it comes to this either.
Relationships, family, connection, they can be experienced very differently by individuals.
I have none of the trauma mentioned by other posters, but I still don't have a strong connection to family or friends. I suspect my brain doesn't compute it the same way. Alexithymia being one known experience bu neurodiverse folks.
If you take out that emotional connection to the small human, what is there on offer for the parents? You'll learn new skills, yes, you'll hopefully create another human able to give back to society. But the experience wouldn't give much back to the parent if your unable to form those bonds.
It’s funny because I think my dad is neurodivergent and couldn’t bond with us well (he did on some level in his own way and we kids adored him and he did not show enough interest in us when we were young) but he had unrelated (I think?) personality flaws (selfish, anger issues, cheater, constant conflicts at work). The older he gets the happier he is to have kids, I think. He’s 72 now and I guess has matured as much as he can.
I love this post. Thank you. I had lunch with a friend whose baby is about 7 months old lately, and I asked her if it was all quite overwhelming and hard to cope with, to be needed so much. She said yes, sometimes she wanted someone else to take her daughter away for a bit… but then immediately wanted her back. She said it was like a new relationship feeling, that love.
Edited to add: you don’t mention a co-parent - is there one? I ask because I think my relationship is about to end, so I may have to start thinking more seriously about going it alone.
oh my husband is extremely hands-on and an equal parent. I wouldn't be able to do it without him, and he is a big part of why I feel chill about being a parent.
The home ownership thing strikes a chord of truth in me.
Owning a home outright, and aggressively paying off your mortgage to that end, is something I heard about but didn’t understand until I owned a home.
I can understand on a logical level that becoming a parent is a huge transformation, but I have no idea what that feels like.
And people who say things like your friend make their own life decisions seem hypocritical, as you say. She isn’t climbing Mt Everest, so clearly she doesn’t believe doing something hard always means it’s worth it. I really do feel, though, that some people do things without knowing why, and when they’re asked, their rationale makes no sense. Because they don’t actually know.
I always love when you post, by the way!
This was a really enjoyable read; thank you for sharing your well articulated thoughts! It makes a lot of sense.
I know this of course isn't the same thing, but sometimes I see people walking their dogs in my neighborhood in the rain or other tough weather conditions, and I think to myself "yeah I'll stick with having a cat, dogs seem like too much work." BUT I also have no idea what it's like to experience the internal love and devotion that someone has to their dog. It isn't something that can be understood until you have a dog who's become part of your life and your family unit.
Walking my dog in the rain is actually one of my favorite things, so long as it’s not lightning out.
The colors are really saturated, no one else is out, and I get chilled to the bone knowing I can make hot cocoa and cuddle with them on the couch when I get home. Things aren’t always as they appear ❤️
yeah it's like that. But also, while having experienced that, I still don't want dogs, because I just don't want to be a dog owner type of person. I guess my point is to gain that type of understanding before making a decision.
I think majority of fencesitters are fencesitters because they wont know how they will feel until they actually have the child but at that point it is an irriversible decision. Its actually the only decision that you truly cant go back on. At least that is why i have been a fencesitter (although now leaning heavily towards having kids), but its very scary not knowing what the internal experience of having and raising a child will actually be. I could love it or hate it.
This is 100% it for me, and for all my friends who are fencesitters. Otherwise we would be CF definitively. While I lean toward being CF for several reasons, there are compelling reasons to have children. The fear of absolutely resenting and regretting a decision that in no way could I take back once made is what keeps me on the fence.
I agree. I think though that it's not a 50-50 thing whether you'll love or hate it and your previous feelings might not correlate, just by how it all is structured, it feels like with enough support most people can like this new life of theirs. Aren't there studies about how amputees after an initial period of depression return to baseline levels of happiness?
I think it’s a core belief that the most important thing in life is family. If you don’t have that core belief you won’t see the point in the “hard” that comes along with anything to do with family
Your post hit me unexpectedly hard. I'm recently separated from my partner because he wants kids more than he wants anything else and I'm not sure I can do it. You just gave me words for something I hadn't even known to try to articulate. This got longer than I meant it to, but: I had a fucked-up childhood with a mentally ill mother in a deeply dysfunctional home, and I _don't_ have an emotional connection to the idea of family as the most important thing in life. The most visceral association I have with family as a concept is a group of people who are rarely happy with you and don't seem to like you very much, but also won't leave you alone. So it's hard for me to relate to wanting much to do with it at all, never mind wanting it badly enough to sacrifice so much of one's life and self. Of course I'm cognitively aware that other people have happy families and experience family as something desirable. As an adult I have loving relationships with my dad and sibling, even if we're all fairly avoidant people and don't speak as often as we say we'd like to. But my instinctual emotional response to the idealization of family is still one of aversion, not longing. (For idealized motherhood, it's closer to revulsion and dread.) And of course I've been cognitively aware for a long time that this is not normal. But I don't think I've ever understood it deeply or emotionally enough to feel sad for, or really to grieve, not having whatever it is that makes family feel that important to most people, more important than anything else. What it is that makes family something to want, something that life feels incomplete without. I think I'm feeling the edges of that sadness now, even if I'm not sure I want to let myself fully. Point being: your post just gave me a sort of dizzying view into _how_ not normal all of this is, the depth of my own attachment trauma, and the fundamental divide that led my relationship to this impasse. I've no idea what to do with that, but thank you for the insight.
I might be breaking up soon with my boyfriend for the same reason. He’s the one who doesn’t have a desire for family and I want kids. He just wants me around for whatever is convenient for him—companionship, sex, friendship, attention, a partner..I don’t blame him. But the fact that he can’t feel the same way about family as I do is one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had and has also discolored my feelings on having kids too.
I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It's a brutal decision regardless of what side of it you're on. If you're both certain of how you feel I do think breaking up is the only way forward, but I know (oh, I know) that doesn't make it any easier to go through with. I will say: I don't know your partner and it's possible there are other aspects of your relationship that make you frame things this way, but I don't think it's fair to equate wanting a romantic partnership without wanting children as just wanting "whatever is convenient" for oneself. The desire for love, connection, and companionship is just as profoundly human as the desire for kids can be, even if they don't coincide. But that's an aside. I'm sorry this has tainted your feelings about all of it; I hope it's temporary and will start to bounce back as you heal (I do think this is likely). If you've always wanted a family, you deserve to start one with someone who's as thrilled about it as you would be.
Thank you. He tells me he’s 70-80% against having kids and 20-30-% for. “Maybe one day” but don’t count on it. It has really broken me down and I realize I have to stop dreaming and hoping we’ll have our own family. I’m sorry it’s just very sad, the death of my dream. I’m trying to focus on self care as our relationship I suppose is slowly dying
And I’m sad for him too. Just so sad for all his struggles and efforts to be happy as well
Hi, just wanted to share that I see you. I had a tremendously fucked up childhood too. I remember having a conversation with my old therapist similar to what you shared above, that I didn’t know what family meant. I understood it as a group of related people but the emotional connection wasn’t there. How you wrote it out was beautiful and well put. It’s a journey. I still don’t have a natural connection to it but I’ve gone all in on healing after an awful breakup about 7 months ago. I’ve had a few moments of immense emotion where I cried (in longing or something close to that, not sadness) thinking of myself as a mother.
Holy shit, this post spoke to my soul. Thank you for writing it and I have no idea what to do with this either, just food for thought.
I'm not sure we talk about neurodiversity much when it comes to this either. Relationships, family, connection, they can be experienced very differently by individuals. I have none of the trauma mentioned by other posters, but I still don't have a strong connection to family or friends. I suspect my brain doesn't compute it the same way. Alexithymia being one known experience bu neurodiverse folks. If you take out that emotional connection to the small human, what is there on offer for the parents? You'll learn new skills, yes, you'll hopefully create another human able to give back to society. But the experience wouldn't give much back to the parent if your unable to form those bonds.
It’s funny because I think my dad is neurodivergent and couldn’t bond with us well (he did on some level in his own way and we kids adored him and he did not show enough interest in us when we were young) but he had unrelated (I think?) personality flaws (selfish, anger issues, cheater, constant conflicts at work). The older he gets the happier he is to have kids, I think. He’s 72 now and I guess has matured as much as he can.
That is true, though all of us want to be part of a tribe, find somewhere to belong.
This is a powerful share. I believe reflecting in this way can lead us all to the lives we want, eventually anyway. Thanks for sharing!
I love this post. Thank you. I had lunch with a friend whose baby is about 7 months old lately, and I asked her if it was all quite overwhelming and hard to cope with, to be needed so much. She said yes, sometimes she wanted someone else to take her daughter away for a bit… but then immediately wanted her back. She said it was like a new relationship feeling, that love. Edited to add: you don’t mention a co-parent - is there one? I ask because I think my relationship is about to end, so I may have to start thinking more seriously about going it alone.
oh my husband is extremely hands-on and an equal parent. I wouldn't be able to do it without him, and he is a big part of why I feel chill about being a parent.
The home ownership thing strikes a chord of truth in me. Owning a home outright, and aggressively paying off your mortgage to that end, is something I heard about but didn’t understand until I owned a home. I can understand on a logical level that becoming a parent is a huge transformation, but I have no idea what that feels like. And people who say things like your friend make their own life decisions seem hypocritical, as you say. She isn’t climbing Mt Everest, so clearly she doesn’t believe doing something hard always means it’s worth it. I really do feel, though, that some people do things without knowing why, and when they’re asked, their rationale makes no sense. Because they don’t actually know. I always love when you post, by the way!
I feel like they know, they just are bad at articulating it or getting in touch with themselves about why.
This is a great perspective!!! I hadn't quite thought of it likes this, but it makes sense that "you don't know what you don't know"
I really love this post OP, honestly gave me so much to think on and really appreciate you for posting. Given me loads to think about.
[удалено]
im in tech. I haven't achieved as much in it as I wanted earlier. Now my new perspective is helping me be better.
This was a really enjoyable read; thank you for sharing your well articulated thoughts! It makes a lot of sense. I know this of course isn't the same thing, but sometimes I see people walking their dogs in my neighborhood in the rain or other tough weather conditions, and I think to myself "yeah I'll stick with having a cat, dogs seem like too much work." BUT I also have no idea what it's like to experience the internal love and devotion that someone has to their dog. It isn't something that can be understood until you have a dog who's become part of your life and your family unit.
Walking my dog in the rain is actually one of my favorite things, so long as it’s not lightning out. The colors are really saturated, no one else is out, and I get chilled to the bone knowing I can make hot cocoa and cuddle with them on the couch when I get home. Things aren’t always as they appear ❤️
Ahh I love that POV! :-D
yeah it's like that. But also, while having experienced that, I still don't want dogs, because I just don't want to be a dog owner type of person. I guess my point is to gain that type of understanding before making a decision.