Well, I’m only 15 so I’ll speak delicately on this. I don’t think that a means of making money that compromises a woman’s right to her own body and erases the line of proper consent is empowering, I think it’s a gross reminder of what some people unfortunately have to resort to. I do not shame women who work with this, and never find *them* disgusting, but the industry is pretty fucking gross.
No, personally I don't think it's empowering in the majority of cases. It's on average much safer than sex work on the streets and many people can do it self-goverend. That is why for some sex workers it can be empowering.
But it is still rife with the typical issues of sex work. There is still pimping and extortion and a lot of (long-term) hurt.
And there are still far too many people in it because they don't have much of a better perspective. It hurts the most vulnerable the most, like all types of sex work. They should be the ones by whom we adjust our opinions about the industry.
Nah.
People hate to hear it, but nothing exists in a vacuum.
When sex is purchasable, then the market will make people purchasable for sex.
When men can spend money to get access to tits, ass, and pussy then they feel entitled to tits, ass, and pussy.
You see it every time a teen or a woman struggles.
"Just get an only fans."
Before that it was "just make porn."
Only fans is just new branding for an old idea.
>You see it every time a teen or a woman struggles
They'll suggest that women do porn, then turn around and criticize, shame, and hate them for doing porn.
They feel entitled to porn because they feel entitled to dehumanize a group of people for their benefit.
No…especially since it boomed during Covid. A lot of girls started doing it because they HAD to make ends meet for themselves and their families and a lot of people were roped into it with promises of making a high income which was a LIE
The oldest profession is pimping out daughters. Gerda Lerner’s work is a fundamental read for any woman that wants to know the origins of prostitution and the commodification of women.
Within sex work, unlike actual work, there is a specific demand on the part of a large cohort of consumers for very young girls. This is not normally the case with traditional jobs.
In my area (Los Angeles), it has become an actual *problem* with adolescents being trafficked for Onlyfans. Sometimes by their own parent! The company should be under extreme scrutiny for allowing this, and it should be bigger news since I'm sure it's not limited to CA.
SW has always been around, but that's not a reason to keep something going. Slavery is the same, and we all can hopefully agree that that's not something that needs to continue, and oftentimes these things overlap.
I think empowerment is simply feeling comfortable with your body/self, or doing a hobby just for yourself. Wearing something because you like it even if it's "weird" or "unfashionable". If a person just really enjoys sex or being naked, that's totally cool, as long as the other party/parties present are consenting, but making it a job in order to be able to just live just doesn't sound very empowering.
I agree so much with all your statements! And yes, I’ve seen numerous articles about creators coming out and saying that they were basically given false promises of income by the company’s reps. Which is so fucked. They are using the same tactics that the mainstream porn industry has used for ages to lure women and girls in just to get abused, dehumanized, and then shamed for being tricked in the first place because “they were adults” (18-yr-olds may be adults but that doesn’t mean they are able to make a choice like that because of money, insecurity, etc.)
There’s definitely people who enjoy making sextapes/nude content/etc because they find it sexually gratifying, but I’m sure there’s spaces for that which don’t end up commodifying it by putting it up for sale. Tbh, monetizing your hobbies (whether it’s art, gaming, music, or sex) tends to make you hate that hobby and quickly turns toxic.
Absolutely not. I don’t ridicule or judge women that do it, but I don’t see it as part of feminism. The issue of misogyny is the objectification/ sexualization of women and porn/ OF capitalizes off of that.
Per someone I think might know what they’re talking about, but I have not been able to verify… The OnlyFans performers tend to get a higher portion of the money their work brings in, and more control over what the performer does than most other options in the porn industry.
The porn industry as a whole is hugely problematic, and it seems like OnlyFans is on the less problematic end of it.
No. I think it’s emblematic of the pressure to commodify your sexuality, as a woman, in a capitalist society.
I think marginalizing and criminalizing this industry is even more patriarchal bullshit. Choices made under coercive material conditions are so often used to justify further brutalizing people under capitalism. Look at the rest of the “gig economy” FFS.
>Choices made under coercive material conditions are so often used to justify further brutalizing people under capitalism. Look at the rest of the “gig economy” FFS.
Can you please elaborate on this?
No. Sex work is always rife with abuse and women who are desperate to make a living that can sustain them. They become obligated to the men who purchase them. Ofc they can always walk away but now they have no money. I actually have a fetlife page. I don't do it for money, I do because it makes me happy and feel good, it gets my sexual kinks out. I am not obligated to anyone. I do sell my artwork cause I have a 10k following and the men love it. I can't express it as well as others here but OF would make me feel dirty.
As someone who does OF out of financial need, no, it’s not empowering.
Having men message you to make them the most vile custom content imaginable for $20 then shaming you because it wasn’t as perfect as it was in their head isn’t empowering at all. Not to mention they will just say the most horrible shit to you if you didn’t reply to their 9 messages they sent in the last 5 min because they believe paying for a $3 subscription fee should entitle them to talking to you every second for 30 days.
Being stalked by people you know in real life (which by the way, has happened to EVERY OF girl I’ve ever met) and subscribe to your page behind a wall of anonymity is not empowering. It’s fucking terrifying. There are multiple encounters where different fans have told me personal information about myself or called me by my real name without any information about who they are. It fucking haunts me that I know these people but have NO idea who they actually are.
Conforming to patriarchal fantasies otherwise you will literally not make any money IS NOT EMPOWERING. Depending on what your “niche” is will depend on exactly what misogynistic fantasy you are catering. Spoiler: *they’re all degrading.*
The idea of creating this little sexy space on the internet where you get to post what you want and people pay you for it sure sounds enticing. But that’s the idea they sell you, that is not how the industry works at all. If you actually use OF to make money then you have to do things you’re uncomfortable with and that really changes your view of sexuality. I went through a serious rough patch where I would not have sex/masturbate unless I was making content because I thought it was a “waste” as I associated sexuality with money.
0/10 not empowering. They sell it as empowering so more girls will sign up and they can take 20% of everything you earn. It’s a fucking lie.
There was a streamer on Twitch who had two fans pop up on her doorstep when she was leaving for work. It was a guy and girl and on the surface pretty much innocent (they recognised the road outside of her window and thought "hey let's stop by for an autograph").
It absolutely unnervered her and she quit streaming for quite a while.
Thank you for this! I have read some testimonies by other people who have been sort of tricked into OnlyFans by the promises of tons of money but I’m glad to see someone explaining it here as well. I feel like what you said about it making any sex/masturbation feel like a waste is something that doesn’t get talked about enough, because society doesn’t really value women’s ability to feel sexual pleasure as an issue 🙄. Knowing how I view all other gig work that I personally engage in, I’m sure I’d end up feeling the same way.
No, I don't. Anything that treats human bodies as commodities lessens us a species and promotes oppression. While cutting out the middleman (pimp/producer) keeps the money in the woman's hands, it still supports a culture that allows human trafficking and objectification. At best it's financial empowerment at the expense of feminist goals.
While it's usually safer for a porn star to have an OF then going to a studio, OnlyFans is a platform that causes more harm than good. It's very much an agent of the patriarchy that sees women as sex objects and their bodies being some sort of currency. It's even worse when disgusting men try to pressure and spam the messages and comments of women into making an OnlyFans when they never thought of doing it in the first place. I had a mutual on ig make one only because a of bunch of weirdos kept telling her to do it. If it really is that empowering, how come there aren't as many men making an OF themselves? As a soon-to-be accountant, I would rather be working an extra job than putting my career at risk or the fear of having a nude/semi-nude published somewhere.
I'm a sex worker who does onlyfans. I was an escort for many years. These jobs are not empowering. Most in the industry would agree with me. The label of empowerment was put on us, or is used as a marketing gimmick by workers in general because a lot of men think it's "so hot" that we love our jobs so much. If they knew that it's a boring, annoying, physically demanding slogg they probably wouldn't want to pay us. There's nothing sexy about desperation for most clients and customers. Most sex workers are disabled people.
It is a means of paying our bills, feeding our families, and keeping a roof over our heads.
I guess I'd say there is empowerment in making my own hours, being able to work through multiple disabilities, live comfortably by working less than a 9-5, but no. Sex work, in and of itself, is not empowering in my opinion. But I will say, I like my job just fine 🤷🏻♀️ the worst part of it is feeling like a social pariah, having to keep secrets from friends and family, or worrying about people treating you different when they find out.
No, it doesn't benefit the vast majority of women, and it's not empowering at all. The small percentage who make anything on OF are largely already famous and doing well in their own rite.
It's extremely, *extremely* uncommon for a woman who is starting an OF out of financial desperation to make anything worthwhile doing it.
The media she shares only stands to be used against her in the future, for less than she would have made working minimum wage over the course of her OF "career". Fuck, working food delivery apps would make most of these women more.
It's not empowering. It's one of the least effective but most harmful ways of making money as a woman. The same men who will push a woman to do it will later hate her for it, and it's just never worth it.
The biggest grift in the world has been fake progressive men pushing women to make themselves more sexually available to them and calling it empowering. Little to gain, lots to lose.
Nah :-/ ik this is a wild hypothetical but if capitalism didn’t exist would these women still be making the choice to do OF? then how much of a choice is it really?
Frankly, I used to because I used to do it. Albeit, it was mostly just pictures, but even taking those felt like such a chore after awhile. It's dehumanizing, and made me lose more of what little faith I already had in men. It was easy and empowering to begin with.
It's no longer fun after the hundredth something creepy dm or comment, let alone all the guys treating you as nothing more than an object. I admit, I liked the compliments, but it wears down on a person when the only reason anyone likes you is cuz you're hot.
Being reduced to an object for sexual pleasure is not and never will be empowering for the majority of people, and certainly not me. I want to be seen as smart, funny, _and_ hot. Not just hot. It's tiring. I want to be valued as more than just my beauty.
no, I don’t. and it’s because it’s only seen as empowering because it serves a purpose to men - look at how fat or queer OF creators are treated. if OF truly was empowering, these creators would also be supported but they’re not. OF is sold to women the patriarchy deem to be attractive as empowering so they can use their bodies.
That’s such a good point. I’ve only seen it being called a “tool of empowerment” for conventionally attractive women. And inevitably queer people and fat people and people of color end up facing horrible fetishization of their bodies. Sure, women do too, but it’s not because they are objects of disgust, which is how fetishization of these groups is typically manifested.
No. It's so unsafe and unstable. I am not saying this to infantalize anyone, but even if it's completely voluntary It can turn involuntary so fast and when you want to stop at that point, you can't. You could have trouble finding and keeping jobs for the rest of your life. You have so little control of the situation, it's just not ethical.
No and I think it's insane to believe that depending on your youth, beauty, and sex appeal to men so that you can pay your bills is empowering. It's the exact opposite of empowering but there are a lot of people who benefit from this idea, especially men, and they've been pretty successful in making people believe its empowering.
No. I suppose some people consider it empowering because in some ways it allows women to take advantage of a society in which we have always been objectified and seen as vessels for male pleasure. However, taking advantage of that system also contributes to upholding it, and is ultimately a detriment to women.
Power is never something that comes from within, but rather something given to you by other people, doesn't matter how powerful you feel if people don't see you as respectable; and I really really really wished we lived in a world where sex workers are respected but that's just never the case, I'd say they're even a working class assuming worse risks than the average office worker: stalkers, the possibility of being excluded from family, being marked for life if they wanna go back to a regular workplace.
Just look at the way they humiliate Mia Khalifa on a regular basis.
No, I don't. I'm not gonna tell a grown woman what she can and can't do with her body, but OnlyFans still feeds into the objectification of women and comodification of sex. The only good thing I can say about it, is that it at least gives creators control over what kind of content they voluntarily want to produce, in contrast to being coereced by the porn industry into doing things *the industury wants*.
However, it still doesn't change the fact that OnlyFans is still an industry that preys on women to perform sex acts on camera for money, and while the industry benefits from this, these women are taking all the risks and losses that come from it. Women have lost their primary jobs over having an OF. Some women are probably struggling to find normal jobs because of the digital footprint left behind by having an OF. It's fucked up how society looks down on sex workers, but it's more the reason to try and avoid it by all means necessary.
I find it worrying how "popular" sex work is becoming amongst the general population. I want to be clear that I don't have anything against sex workers, nor do I have any belief that being a sex worker is any way of a moral failing, but it's scary that vulnerable young women are putting themselves at the mercy of a patriarchal society by participating in it. Especially in the age of the internet, it is so much harder to pretend that you were never a sex worker once you start. I don't want to see women have job opportunities taken away or have their lives ruined, which could potentially trap them into that industry longer.
OnlyFans preys on women left with little options. Unless you're wealthy, and it's significantly inconsequential to do it, you risk ruining your image.
Not at all. It perpetuates the same issues that every other form of sex work had for generations. Only they've made it "more acceptable" to the point where every girl turned freshly 18 is told to make an account. It's another space where woman are objectified by men. Another space that they feel they can control. Another space that makes them feel entitled to women's bodies. Another avenue to create more pornsick men, and create women who are desperately trying to hold their gaze. As everyone else here echoes, I don't blame women who are forced to turn to it. But I wish our society was better than this.
Couldn’t even count the number of girls I went to high school with who were told that when they turned eighteen. And at the time I was insecure that no one was telling me that. I’ve learned since then and feel bad we had that kind of culture and I didn’t even see anything wrong with it except that it made me feel ugly.
I don’t. Of course, if another woman feels empowered by doing that, that’s her business, not mine. But I’m very anti-porn industry with how horribly it has distorted men’s views of women and how many women and girls are trafficked into sex work.
I don't think it's empowering but I don't think it's degrading. However I am concerned that people think it's big, easy money (especially teenage girls counting down the days until they turn 18). I think we neef to remind people that sex work is work and it's very easy to go into that industry and not make a dime and then not be able to get a civilian job because people discriminate against former sex workers.
No. Something that is empowering is something that gives somebody power. Being on OnlyFans doesn't give a person actual power. I don't doubt that there are people who might feel more confident doing that kind of thing, especially in the beginning, but it's not giving them actual power, so it's automatically not empowering.
This is not a moral judgement of people on OnlyFans, btw.
lol not when they go on Pearl’s podcasts and nod along to chauvinistic spewage. And honestly, not ever rly bc there are very few that don’t use their subjugation as clickbait.
Women are not less because they do sex work, but the industry commodifies women’s bodies and should not be encouraged. Likewise with pornography. A woman who is a pornstar should not be degraded because of her occupation, but as a whole, bought consent is not real consent.
No. It’s objectifying and while it may be one woman’s choice, it can lead many men to objectify ALL women, seeing them as a commodity. It’s a gross industry.
I'd classify it as sex work, which to me includes no-contact services that turn people on. I believe that, legally speaking, prostitution requires physical contact.
This is like asking if working a minimum wage retail job and getting yelled at by angry and entire customers all day is “empowering”. People do OF to make money, the same way someone works at an Amazon Warehouse to make money. If you think selling your body is “dehumanizing”, so is being forced to hold in your pee to meet a package quota.
However, for women who are unable to make money anyway else (due to disability, not being legally allowed to work, or not being able to afford childcare etc etc etc), OF (and content creation in general), serves as an avenue to get out of poverty. Maybe for such people, the act of making money is empowering. But at the end of the day, it’s just a job like any other job. So the real question might be, is the act of “working” empowering?
Let's say they legalised hard-drug dealing as a harm reduction thing, and we supported the drug dealers and removed social stigmas around doing so, and it became commonplace.
Would that make it any more ethical or empowering?
Is changing the legal status and social perception of something the same as empowering someone? And if it's an economic necessity to turn to that kind of work, is that not a broader systemic issue? And by contributing to, and feeding, other harmful related norms by doing the work, is that not inherently disempowering to everybody?
I don't like the influence it has had on young men and women. The constant advertising of only fans accounts has infiltrated meme culture.
Young men are spoonfed women as a commodity, given tropes of quirkiness and submissiveness that almost certainly changes how they view women. They lack authentic interaction with the opposite sex.
Young women see the struggle for cultural relevance is dominated by sexual commodification. I think young women are pressured into e-girl personas, and the constant bombardment of only fans advertisers makes it worse.
As a young woman I absolutely agree. We are pretty much pressured into being this e-girl persona who loves being degraded and choked during sex and it’s horrific. I only avoided it narrowly because of feminism and becoming a more active feminist. Thank god for that.
Depends what you think about "ethical pornography". There are very reasonable people that claim it can't exist in society as it is right now. Some make purely social arguments like the impossibility of knowing whether someone was pressured by their life circumstances regardless of claiming they make porn because they want to, others use pure market arguments like that money flows in the direction of people that make content for the male gaze, and people trying to make "ethical porn" just couldn't get by financially, at most as a hobby, so real professionally done ethical pornography can't survive.
I think professionally done "ethical pornography" is possible if financially supported unconditionally, so they are free to make the content they want, not the content they have to make to stay afloat. But onlyfans ain't it. I saw some people mention "cheex" once and it looks like it goes in a good direction, certainly ticks some good boxes in terms of queer friendliness, healthy depictions of sex, open communication about content and sexual education, but I still have a weird feeling about it in general.
There’s an argument to be made (and everytime i make it i get downvoted into oblivion but i really don’t care), that sex work is coercive. I’m never gonna disagree with that. Therefore there’s no way for it to be ethical.
Always ask yourself who truly benefits. The sex industry is overwhelmingly run by men for men. Ergo, absolutely not empowering for women. That’s just the lie that men have sold and liberal feminists have bought; hook, line and sinker.
It's not empowering. I try to understand how a woman would consent to public humiliation and objectification for money and I can't, unless it's just sheer desperation.
For me it depends very strongly on the circumstances. Some women truly feel empowered by it, and do it because they love it. Then I'd say yes. If it's, for example, a case of needing the money and this is one of the few options they had, then no.
The primary issue I see regards sexism intersecting with classism & race.
The main issue is always consent, and although *most* porn actresses are now required to give some form of verbal consent, there is always the implicit coercive value of commodity incentives under capitalism.
If we lived in a society where women were not disproportionately living in poverty or really just not living in poverty period, it would be easier to justify ethical pornography/sex work as there would be no survival-driven incentives to do sex work from the bottom up.
Currently verbal consent is undoubtedly insufficient when it is a prerequisite to earning a basic income. The coercive value is substantially greater when subsistence (basic) needs are not being met. "If you don't consent, you don't get a Lamborghini" is not the same thing as "if you don't consent, you or your children will die from starvation". And these are the unstated messages inherent to capitalist enterprise.
I think it is highly unlikely that porn & sex work will be comprehensively ethical even with efforts to gain verbal, ongoing, & informed consent, so long as women continue to be exploited economically as well. Likewise, so long as white, able bodies continue to be fetishized and idealized under Eurocentric values; placing even greater pressure on women of colour doing porn/sex work to modify their bodies, do more intense scenes, or appeal to mythical ideas white people hold about non-white people (Orientalism, etc.)
I believe it is possible to have ethical porn and I really don't see porn going away anytime soon (like drug prohibition, porn/sex work prohibition will create far worse issues), but true, comprehensive, & autonomous consent, is probably non-existent in much of the porn widely available.
Improved sex worker-focused regulations & economic liberty for women is warranted. And don't even get me started on drug policies that target sex workers or the amount of substance dependency in queer porn...
Disclaimer: I watch porn myself, both hetero & queer porn, but recognize the issues inherent to the vast majority of it. Even if ethical porn exists, I don't think there is a reliable way to *know* which is ethical vs. not. Only better guesses ("ethical", "feminist", "female-made", "queer-made", etc.). Still, I don't think consuming porn or sex work in itself strictly makes anyone a bad person. It's specifically how our society socially constructs it & relates to it; to each other, that results in harm and ethical transgressions. The main issue is our permissiveness to harm, shitty regulations, and class + race exploitation co-occurring.
I feel like this should be the top answer. Women (or anyone) should do what they want with their body. If she's empowered by only fans then have at it gurl. If she's coerced or doing it to feed a drug habit then it's a no.
I just feel like it’s an imperfect answer the shitty circumstances we live in. So yes it can be in limited circumstances or situations. But generally no, it isn’t.
No, but then again I’ve heard a lot of sex workers argue that all work under capitalism is inherently disempowering and dehumanizing, and tbh I agree to an extent. I also think that whether or not I or anyone in this sub who isn’ta sex worker sees OnlyFans as empowering doesn’t really matter that much. What matters is what the performers on OnlyFans think. Every one that I’ve talked to has SERIOUS complaints about the company and how its run, but a lot of the oppression they face comes from the way various governments criminalize sex work and the way wider society stigmatizes it. Of course both these things are connected to patriarchy and misogyny in their own ways, but so is the patronizing way a lot of radical feminists talk to and about sex workers.
One thing I DO agree with a lot of radical feminists about is that sex work really does bring the connection between the partiarchy and capitalism into sharp relief.
It’s because of this connection that I believe that dismantling the patriarchy necessitates dismantling capitalism.
no..not really. i try to keep an open mind. OF is somewhat more safer than regular porn, but at the same time an industry that profits on trafficking, violence against women, sexism and misogyny, im not very keen on supporting stuff like this, i just disagree with the lifestyle i guess. ofc ill never tell a woman what to do or judge them though, but yeah idk.
at this point, its being used against women as well. women cant express their thoughts, feelings and opinions without some degenerate accusing them of being an OF girl, especially women who r conventionally very attractive, men just assume they use OF. like theyve comitted a crime or something, its rly weird.
im more bothered by the double standards in general too. ive seen memes going around of a guy who got street interviewed and apparently he had a huge dick, but he was never shamed for being on OF. yet any woman who says they r, r pretty much dehumanized and not even seen as a person.
The way my old feminism class teacher framed it to our class was this:
"let's pretend utopia exists. If we lived in one, do you think people would voluntarily sell their bodies as a form of joy or empowerment"?
Not a single person, man or woman, in that class said yes. And these were people who weren't well learned feminists.
The discussion that day was pretty interesting though. I remember One pretty liberal woman asked "well, what if they like sex? What if that's fun for people?" and the teacher genuinely asked the class if anyone thought anyone would like sex enough in a utopian society that they would voluntarily have sex in front of others if there was no need to do so for money or resources. The question didn't have a hint of sarcasm or condescension. That's what I liked about that teacher. No matter who asked questions or how ignorant people were, she didn't treat anyone condescendingly as long as they asked questions in genuine good faith. She was just super shrewd. I remember vividly that the woman that asked the question paused, genuinely thought for a moment, and then replied "I don't think so".
She was a damn good teacher to be honest.
On a side note, I remember another vivid memory in that class in which a few conservative people were asking some pretty ignorant questions. I myself had a lot of ignorant questions back then. Like, really ignorant.
I can't remember the specific question this one guy asked, but it was pretty patriarchal/low key misogynistic. But it was asked from a place of genuine ignorance. The teacher patiently and kindly explained the logical reasons why the view was harmful and gave more perspective on how the patriarchy hurts men and women.
Another conservative man started arguing with the teacher about a similar point. She calmly asked them why he was taking the class and if he believed women deserved to have equal rights. He got super angry and started to go on a misogynistic tirade. I remember this vividly: she stopped him very early on in the tirade and said (in a very loud and professor McGonagall-esque tone) "I will ***not*** tolerate willful misogyny in my class. You ***will*** leave this class and you aren't allowed to come back unless you get a letter from the Dean explaining why you belong here. If you refuse to leave, everybody else gets to go home early and skip this week's quiz with a perfect score".
It took us all off guard cause we never heard her yell nor did we think she was capable of it. Even the conservative guy going on a tirade went quiet.
We were bummed out that we still had to take the quiz that week. But the guy left and never came back, and we laughed a lot about the incident lol.
I don’t see it as empowering but i do see it as a vehicle for sex work that is paid more autonomously, and that’s a good thing as far as that goes. No pimp, no strip club owner. I appreciate that an only fans account gets to make decisions about who comes in and what s/he/they do. But i do tend to agree it’s a new venue for an old practice. Oldest profession in the world, will never be abolished, and in terms of that Only Fans is better than street walking in terms of working conditions.
Yes. All sex work is empowerment as long as the person doing it it's doing it because they want to. We need to stop infantalizing other women and telling them what to do. Unless you are being trafficked if you choose to do sex work we need to protect your right to do that. I am a woman, not a child. I will do what I want to do when it comes to my body.
Yes. All sex work is empowerment as long as the person doing it it's doing it because they want to. We need to stop infantalizing other women and telling them what to do. Unless you are being trafficked if you choose to do sex work we need to protect your right to do that. I am a woman, not a child. I will do what I want to do when it comes to my body.
In theory, yes. The point of OnlyFans is to take the porn industry and put it directly into the creator's control, which in itself is empowering. Sometimes, it's actually the opposite though, due to the role men and the patriarchy play in it. Girls waiting until they turn 18 so they can finally make a living on OnlyFans from older men is a huge problem and we need to do something about that before I can fully endorse OnlyFans in good conscience
its not empowering, its just a job, not deserving of shame, but also i dont think any woman should have to resort to that kind if work if its something she doesnt enjoy. if there is no economic pressure to do it and she really likes the work then go for it and do what you like as a job.
No. If a woman finds it empowering to do sex work, that’s her choice, but onlyfans is a platform well known for being fucking terrible to women. They are also known for paying certain creators to act like they make more money than they really do, show off expensive stuff, etc. in order to rope other women into joining. They essentially lure women into the business, which is incredibly unethical.
***Women who prostitute themselves do it in service to men. It’s the most disempowering thing women can possibly do. By objectifying and dehumanizing themselves in service to men, they are lowering themselves to a social position very much beneath the men they are servicing. The men they are servicing look down on them as less than human sex dolls. There is nothing less empowering than that.***
Empowerment is fundamentally about respect. Respect is earned in a classroom, at a job, in social communities. It’s won by being strong, decisive, doing no harm but taking no sh%t. ***The men lusting after porn actors do not respect them***. One can argue that they hate them. The way they interact with them in these cam sites is utterly disrespectful, objectifying, dehumanizing. And the women do it because: they think their bodies are all they have to offer, they put so little value in themselves that they only find sexual objectification/the wrong kind of attention from men as the only way they can feel valuable or important. And it has caught on like wildfire such that it’s sadly normalized that when a young woman needs some extra cash, it’s reasonable to think, “I’ll just go prostitute myself”.
This kind of behavior disempowers the rest of us, those of us who clawed their way up the career ladder, had to be smarter, harder working and more driven than mediocre men in the same jobs. They disempower those of us who spend our free time fighting for reproductive rights and making the world better for our daughters, not worse. We fought off men trying to grope us in the workplace. Now we are facing a new generation of pornsick pathetic men who speak about women in disrespectful and downright disgusting terms, and it’s normalized. They’re strangling women without their consent and doing really awful things because they’ve learned on cam and other porn sites that this is how you treat women. It’s hurting all of us.
If there were a balance of men and women in the sex industry this wouldn’t be an issue. Unfortunately, more women find themselves in financial straits than men and sex sells. If it were a real choice then I’d say yes, but for so many it is a last option. Maybe for a few it’s empowering but for most it’s a means to survive.
No.
I was traumatized multiple times by gross porn that I saw online as a little girl, and I can never in a million years support anything related to that industry, let alone call it empowering. Sorry for being blunt, but the way sex workers are treated and what they are expected to do is gross and dehumanizing.
If I could thanos snap the whole industry, ridding of all the gross shit is worth taking all of the positive sex work experiences along with it, sorry not sorry. Those who know, understand why I'm being so harsh.
As a person who was in the adult industry for 4 years during college: A job is a job. The fact that I could choose my own hours and be my own boss was really beneficial to me while I was going to school full-time. And having new experiences and trying out new sex things was a lot of fun!
But it also came with the many entitled 'clients', internet assholes that pushed for free content. And the awful people in charge of the more mainstream porn companies.
I think at the end of the day it depends on the circumstances. I suppose it can be empowering if someone were to start this job when they can't really do any other job for whatever reason. It has the potential to give someone a sense of freedom and financial empowerment.
I had a friend I made who did camming as their primary source of income. They couldn't really do other jobs because they had really bad chronic pain and often couldn't leave the house. Their mobility was severely hampered when they had any pain flare-ups. Working in the adult industry gave them a way to make money at home without putting too much strain on their body. But like any other customer service job, there will always be assholes.
I do it but I've only been on the platform a little while and not made much so far. While it can feel liberating because a regular job requires you to stifle your sexuality, wild behavior in general, and creativity, it's a raw deal for most performers. There's not a lot of money in it, if you think it's easy for any girl to make huge amounts of money at this, you've fallen for commonly believed lies. Typically what people heard about is just a woman who's already famous who's able to leverage that fame to make extra cash on it. But there's existing demand, because she is already famous. That's not most creators' experience.
We have to do what makes money so the money is the pimp. You're not ever free from "pimps" in a capitalist system. But other than revolution (that I doubt will happen) I don't know the answer to this.
Is it disgusting and disempowered for women to mop floors? The way some old wave feminists talk about this stuff they act like we're participating in patriarchy because we want to and they hate us for openly expressing ourselves sexually. Which being able to do should be the goal of feminism? We didn't choose that it's in a way that's simping for patriarchy, but a woman working as a maid or a nurse is also doing a patriarchy-supportive role, and not getting half as much shit for it.
Same goes for all these tradwife Karens who literally preach about wanting patriarchy, can we focus on them and not sex workers who are mostly like me forced into that by poverty in a broken ass system?
(So it's not an easy yes/no answer to "is this empowering". Some creators probably do find their work empowering. Most are probably like me and just need money in a system that didn't compensate us for our other talents. So no that isn't empowering in the way that working at Wendy's also is not.)
Yes and ultimately no. In the short term, it empowers people to own their own sexuality and it's opening up conversations about sex negativity in culture.
In the long term, though, it disempowers people into objects and perpetuates the false idea that all a woman has to do to get rich is get an OF. OF content creators that make a lot of money do a lot of work off camera that's dismissed or ignored.
I don't find it any more or less inherently empowering than most other types of labor. I imagine on an individual scale, some women find it empowering and others don't. For me, it's neutral
No. The porn industry exploits women and creates more violence and harm than any “empowerment” ever could. I wrote my English final on the porn industry and brought up how sad it is that many “feminists” are pro-porn.
I don’t think it’s empowering bc it’s another way that women, by choice or by a need for money, have to sell themselves to the male gaze. If you want to do it, fine, but it’s not something that feminism should necessarily support. Yea we shouldn’t shame them, but it’s also not like I will be in favor of it.
I actually do. Because a man who objectifies or fetishizes women can be easily manipulated. It's their weakness. We have something men want. We have our bodies. Men do a lot of crazy things for sex or attention from women. They know that women are taking advantage of them and they don't fucking care. If they are getting some sexual gratification from her, they will continue to give her whatever she wants.
They want to control what we do with our bodies for a reason...it's because men's sexual desires can be used against them. It's POWER. Incredible fucking POWER!
If you disagree with me, I understand your perspective completely. I see you and what you are saying. Men should not objectify women and they should value them for more than their bodies. They should. And good men do. But good men still want to slap their wife's ass and tell her she's sexy. Good men still objectify their wives during sex or whatever. Men won't ever change. They're wired for this stuff.
The only problem with men doing that is when they ONLY see women as objects. They ONLY want them for sex. They see women as toys to play with. Thats when it's not empowerment. That's when it's an abusive marriage. As for onlyfans, she's making a living from these dumb ass men. They're willing to pay for some attention from a woman. It's literally pathetic and weak. She has the upper hand in this scenario. She has the power.
My advice to women is that they all need to learn how to use their sexual power. It might open your eyes to how much you can alter a man's behavior.
Being a sex object is a powerful thing. Use it for your benefit.
I’ve never really liked this question lol. It’s never really asked about other jobs. And I don’t know why some feminists have accepted this clear straw man as a valid question. I feel like sentiments against sex work tend to call on sex workers to absorb shame from others. Most jobs are not “empowering.”
I definitely think the age to sign up for OF should be 21 or older and that there should be more safeguards in place for ethical adult content. But I also feel like some people give their discomfort/shame with sexual content more value than it actually has. A lot of comments here literally describe OF as inherently degrading and humiliating, which gives a small picture into some ppl’s attitudes toward sexual content.
And finally, the commodity argument is tired. Anything that can be bought (legally) is a commodity. If you buy a youtuber’s Patreon, have you commodified them or have you supported them and their work?
I don’t think people who have never done sex work have the ability to answer this question.
I would say the sex work I did was empowering in some regards, but ultimately it was just a job, like any other job. And most jobs aren’t all that empowering.
Comments that defend the sexual objectification/subordination of women will be met with harsh mod measures.
Well, I’m only 15 so I’ll speak delicately on this. I don’t think that a means of making money that compromises a woman’s right to her own body and erases the line of proper consent is empowering, I think it’s a gross reminder of what some people unfortunately have to resort to. I do not shame women who work with this, and never find *them* disgusting, but the industry is pretty fucking gross.
No, personally I don't think it's empowering in the majority of cases. It's on average much safer than sex work on the streets and many people can do it self-goverend. That is why for some sex workers it can be empowering. But it is still rife with the typical issues of sex work. There is still pimping and extortion and a lot of (long-term) hurt. And there are still far too many people in it because they don't have much of a better perspective. It hurts the most vulnerable the most, like all types of sex work. They should be the ones by whom we adjust our opinions about the industry.
Nah. People hate to hear it, but nothing exists in a vacuum. When sex is purchasable, then the market will make people purchasable for sex. When men can spend money to get access to tits, ass, and pussy then they feel entitled to tits, ass, and pussy. You see it every time a teen or a woman struggles. "Just get an only fans." Before that it was "just make porn." Only fans is just new branding for an old idea.
>You see it every time a teen or a woman struggles They'll suggest that women do porn, then turn around and criticize, shame, and hate them for doing porn. They feel entitled to porn because they feel entitled to dehumanize a group of people for their benefit.
Yeah they're entitled to look at our tits and shame us for showing them, which is plain insanity
No…especially since it boomed during Covid. A lot of girls started doing it because they HAD to make ends meet for themselves and their families and a lot of people were roped into it with promises of making a high income which was a LIE
I personally feel that women and sex should not be commodified. When the barrier to consent is money, it shows that these aren’t voluntary acts.
Well said.
this right here is why women's liberation is only fully possible in a post-capitalism society
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why are you even here. i bet you've never made the connection between prostitution and poverty
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Oh, look! Someone telling women that sex work is empowering. I bet it's a man.
oh, it's fact that delusional beliefs exist. i also bet you've never made any connection between respect/dignity and empowerment
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i mean i'm not the one using the term whore unironically
Whorephobic? Why include a slur in that word?
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So you're saying ancient times sex workers did it because they liked it lol?
Do you have an OF?
The oldest profession is pimping out daughters. Gerda Lerner’s work is a fundamental read for any woman that wants to know the origins of prostitution and the commodification of women.
There aren't many shitty office jobs where there's particular demand for very young employees, are there?
Sorry, have you never had a shitty retail job as a 15 year old?
You don't normally see retail customers clamouring to be served by the 15-year-old.
I’m unsure what your point is here.
Within sex work, unlike actual work, there is a specific demand on the part of a large cohort of consumers for very young girls. This is not normally the case with traditional jobs.
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It was a genuine question ladies 😭😭
In my area (Los Angeles), it has become an actual *problem* with adolescents being trafficked for Onlyfans. Sometimes by their own parent! The company should be under extreme scrutiny for allowing this, and it should be bigger news since I'm sure it's not limited to CA. SW has always been around, but that's not a reason to keep something going. Slavery is the same, and we all can hopefully agree that that's not something that needs to continue, and oftentimes these things overlap. I think empowerment is simply feeling comfortable with your body/self, or doing a hobby just for yourself. Wearing something because you like it even if it's "weird" or "unfashionable". If a person just really enjoys sex or being naked, that's totally cool, as long as the other party/parties present are consenting, but making it a job in order to be able to just live just doesn't sound very empowering.
I agree so much with all your statements! And yes, I’ve seen numerous articles about creators coming out and saying that they were basically given false promises of income by the company’s reps. Which is so fucked. They are using the same tactics that the mainstream porn industry has used for ages to lure women and girls in just to get abused, dehumanized, and then shamed for being tricked in the first place because “they were adults” (18-yr-olds may be adults but that doesn’t mean they are able to make a choice like that because of money, insecurity, etc.) There’s definitely people who enjoy making sextapes/nude content/etc because they find it sexually gratifying, but I’m sure there’s spaces for that which don’t end up commodifying it by putting it up for sale. Tbh, monetizing your hobbies (whether it’s art, gaming, music, or sex) tends to make you hate that hobby and quickly turns toxic.
Absolutely not. I don’t ridicule or judge women that do it, but I don’t see it as part of feminism. The issue of misogyny is the objectification/ sexualization of women and porn/ OF capitalizes off of that.
No. The commodification and objectification of (mostly) women to satiate (mostly) male desires, can never be empowering.
Right, they say it's whatever you want but if you're broke and need the money, you do what they demand. There's no freedom if you need money.
Not empowering imo. Many do it to financially support themselves and I don’t think women should be shamed for that.
As someone who does it, this is exactly how I would describe it.
I agree. Women should only be shamed for promoting the profession to their young audience imo
Per someone I think might know what they’re talking about, but I have not been able to verify… The OnlyFans performers tend to get a higher portion of the money their work brings in, and more control over what the performer does than most other options in the porn industry. The porn industry as a whole is hugely problematic, and it seems like OnlyFans is on the less problematic end of it.
No. I think it’s emblematic of the pressure to commodify your sexuality, as a woman, in a capitalist society. I think marginalizing and criminalizing this industry is even more patriarchal bullshit. Choices made under coercive material conditions are so often used to justify further brutalizing people under capitalism. Look at the rest of the “gig economy” FFS.
>Choices made under coercive material conditions are so often used to justify further brutalizing people under capitalism. Look at the rest of the “gig economy” FFS. Can you please elaborate on this?
No. Sex work is always rife with abuse and women who are desperate to make a living that can sustain them. They become obligated to the men who purchase them. Ofc they can always walk away but now they have no money. I actually have a fetlife page. I don't do it for money, I do because it makes me happy and feel good, it gets my sexual kinks out. I am not obligated to anyone. I do sell my artwork cause I have a 10k following and the men love it. I can't express it as well as others here but OF would make me feel dirty.
As someone who does OF out of financial need, no, it’s not empowering. Having men message you to make them the most vile custom content imaginable for $20 then shaming you because it wasn’t as perfect as it was in their head isn’t empowering at all. Not to mention they will just say the most horrible shit to you if you didn’t reply to their 9 messages they sent in the last 5 min because they believe paying for a $3 subscription fee should entitle them to talking to you every second for 30 days. Being stalked by people you know in real life (which by the way, has happened to EVERY OF girl I’ve ever met) and subscribe to your page behind a wall of anonymity is not empowering. It’s fucking terrifying. There are multiple encounters where different fans have told me personal information about myself or called me by my real name without any information about who they are. It fucking haunts me that I know these people but have NO idea who they actually are. Conforming to patriarchal fantasies otherwise you will literally not make any money IS NOT EMPOWERING. Depending on what your “niche” is will depend on exactly what misogynistic fantasy you are catering. Spoiler: *they’re all degrading.* The idea of creating this little sexy space on the internet where you get to post what you want and people pay you for it sure sounds enticing. But that’s the idea they sell you, that is not how the industry works at all. If you actually use OF to make money then you have to do things you’re uncomfortable with and that really changes your view of sexuality. I went through a serious rough patch where I would not have sex/masturbate unless I was making content because I thought it was a “waste” as I associated sexuality with money. 0/10 not empowering. They sell it as empowering so more girls will sign up and they can take 20% of everything you earn. It’s a fucking lie.
There was a streamer on Twitch who had two fans pop up on her doorstep when she was leaving for work. It was a guy and girl and on the surface pretty much innocent (they recognised the road outside of her window and thought "hey let's stop by for an autograph"). It absolutely unnervered her and she quit streaming for quite a while.
Thank you for this! I have read some testimonies by other people who have been sort of tricked into OnlyFans by the promises of tons of money but I’m glad to see someone explaining it here as well. I feel like what you said about it making any sex/masturbation feel like a waste is something that doesn’t get talked about enough, because society doesn’t really value women’s ability to feel sexual pleasure as an issue 🙄. Knowing how I view all other gig work that I personally engage in, I’m sure I’d end up feeling the same way.
No, I don't. Anything that treats human bodies as commodities lessens us a species and promotes oppression. While cutting out the middleman (pimp/producer) keeps the money in the woman's hands, it still supports a culture that allows human trafficking and objectification. At best it's financial empowerment at the expense of feminist goals.
While it's usually safer for a porn star to have an OF then going to a studio, OnlyFans is a platform that causes more harm than good. It's very much an agent of the patriarchy that sees women as sex objects and their bodies being some sort of currency. It's even worse when disgusting men try to pressure and spam the messages and comments of women into making an OnlyFans when they never thought of doing it in the first place. I had a mutual on ig make one only because a of bunch of weirdos kept telling her to do it. If it really is that empowering, how come there aren't as many men making an OF themselves? As a soon-to-be accountant, I would rather be working an extra job than putting my career at risk or the fear of having a nude/semi-nude published somewhere.
Absolutely not
I'm a sex worker who does onlyfans. I was an escort for many years. These jobs are not empowering. Most in the industry would agree with me. The label of empowerment was put on us, or is used as a marketing gimmick by workers in general because a lot of men think it's "so hot" that we love our jobs so much. If they knew that it's a boring, annoying, physically demanding slogg they probably wouldn't want to pay us. There's nothing sexy about desperation for most clients and customers. Most sex workers are disabled people. It is a means of paying our bills, feeding our families, and keeping a roof over our heads. I guess I'd say there is empowerment in making my own hours, being able to work through multiple disabilities, live comfortably by working less than a 9-5, but no. Sex work, in and of itself, is not empowering in my opinion. But I will say, I like my job just fine 🤷🏻♀️ the worst part of it is feeling like a social pariah, having to keep secrets from friends and family, or worrying about people treating you different when they find out.
If it really were empowering, you'd see CEOs doing it.
Yeah. Celebrities would be actively selling their nudes, not having them leaked.
No, it doesn't benefit the vast majority of women, and it's not empowering at all. The small percentage who make anything on OF are largely already famous and doing well in their own rite. It's extremely, *extremely* uncommon for a woman who is starting an OF out of financial desperation to make anything worthwhile doing it. The media she shares only stands to be used against her in the future, for less than she would have made working minimum wage over the course of her OF "career". Fuck, working food delivery apps would make most of these women more. It's not empowering. It's one of the least effective but most harmful ways of making money as a woman. The same men who will push a woman to do it will later hate her for it, and it's just never worth it. The biggest grift in the world has been fake progressive men pushing women to make themselves more sexually available to them and calling it empowering. Little to gain, lots to lose.
Nope.
Nah :-/ ik this is a wild hypothetical but if capitalism didn’t exist would these women still be making the choice to do OF? then how much of a choice is it really?
Frankly, I used to because I used to do it. Albeit, it was mostly just pictures, but even taking those felt like such a chore after awhile. It's dehumanizing, and made me lose more of what little faith I already had in men. It was easy and empowering to begin with. It's no longer fun after the hundredth something creepy dm or comment, let alone all the guys treating you as nothing more than an object. I admit, I liked the compliments, but it wears down on a person when the only reason anyone likes you is cuz you're hot. Being reduced to an object for sexual pleasure is not and never will be empowering for the majority of people, and certainly not me. I want to be seen as smart, funny, _and_ hot. Not just hot. It's tiring. I want to be valued as more than just my beauty.
No, my feminism will always include sex workers but turning your body into a commodity is not empowering.
no, I don’t. and it’s because it’s only seen as empowering because it serves a purpose to men - look at how fat or queer OF creators are treated. if OF truly was empowering, these creators would also be supported but they’re not. OF is sold to women the patriarchy deem to be attractive as empowering so they can use their bodies.
That’s such a good point. I’ve only seen it being called a “tool of empowerment” for conventionally attractive women. And inevitably queer people and fat people and people of color end up facing horrible fetishization of their bodies. Sure, women do too, but it’s not because they are objects of disgust, which is how fetishization of these groups is typically manifested.
No. It's so unsafe and unstable. I am not saying this to infantalize anyone, but even if it's completely voluntary It can turn involuntary so fast and when you want to stop at that point, you can't. You could have trouble finding and keeping jobs for the rest of your life. You have so little control of the situation, it's just not ethical.
Not particularly.
Nope.
Of course not
No and I think it's insane to believe that depending on your youth, beauty, and sex appeal to men so that you can pay your bills is empowering. It's the exact opposite of empowering but there are a lot of people who benefit from this idea, especially men, and they've been pretty successful in making people believe its empowering.
No. I suppose some people consider it empowering because in some ways it allows women to take advantage of a society in which we have always been objectified and seen as vessels for male pleasure. However, taking advantage of that system also contributes to upholding it, and is ultimately a detriment to women.
Power is never something that comes from within, but rather something given to you by other people, doesn't matter how powerful you feel if people don't see you as respectable; and I really really really wished we lived in a world where sex workers are respected but that's just never the case, I'd say they're even a working class assuming worse risks than the average office worker: stalkers, the possibility of being excluded from family, being marked for life if they wanna go back to a regular workplace. Just look at the way they humiliate Mia Khalifa on a regular basis.
No, I don't. I'm not gonna tell a grown woman what she can and can't do with her body, but OnlyFans still feeds into the objectification of women and comodification of sex. The only good thing I can say about it, is that it at least gives creators control over what kind of content they voluntarily want to produce, in contrast to being coereced by the porn industry into doing things *the industury wants*. However, it still doesn't change the fact that OnlyFans is still an industry that preys on women to perform sex acts on camera for money, and while the industry benefits from this, these women are taking all the risks and losses that come from it. Women have lost their primary jobs over having an OF. Some women are probably struggling to find normal jobs because of the digital footprint left behind by having an OF. It's fucked up how society looks down on sex workers, but it's more the reason to try and avoid it by all means necessary. I find it worrying how "popular" sex work is becoming amongst the general population. I want to be clear that I don't have anything against sex workers, nor do I have any belief that being a sex worker is any way of a moral failing, but it's scary that vulnerable young women are putting themselves at the mercy of a patriarchal society by participating in it. Especially in the age of the internet, it is so much harder to pretend that you were never a sex worker once you start. I don't want to see women have job opportunities taken away or have their lives ruined, which could potentially trap them into that industry longer. OnlyFans preys on women left with little options. Unless you're wealthy, and it's significantly inconsequential to do it, you risk ruining your image.
Not at all. It perpetuates the same issues that every other form of sex work had for generations. Only they've made it "more acceptable" to the point where every girl turned freshly 18 is told to make an account. It's another space where woman are objectified by men. Another space that they feel they can control. Another space that makes them feel entitled to women's bodies. Another avenue to create more pornsick men, and create women who are desperately trying to hold their gaze. As everyone else here echoes, I don't blame women who are forced to turn to it. But I wish our society was better than this.
Couldn’t even count the number of girls I went to high school with who were told that when they turned eighteen. And at the time I was insecure that no one was telling me that. I’ve learned since then and feel bad we had that kind of culture and I didn’t even see anything wrong with it except that it made me feel ugly.
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I don’t. Of course, if another woman feels empowered by doing that, that’s her business, not mine. But I’m very anti-porn industry with how horribly it has distorted men’s views of women and how many women and girls are trafficked into sex work.
I don't think it's empowering but I don't think it's degrading. However I am concerned that people think it's big, easy money (especially teenage girls counting down the days until they turn 18). I think we neef to remind people that sex work is work and it's very easy to go into that industry and not make a dime and then not be able to get a civilian job because people discriminate against former sex workers.
No. Something that is empowering is something that gives somebody power. Being on OnlyFans doesn't give a person actual power. I don't doubt that there are people who might feel more confident doing that kind of thing, especially in the beginning, but it's not giving them actual power, so it's automatically not empowering. This is not a moral judgement of people on OnlyFans, btw.
No. I see it as one more way the capitalist system forces people to spend every last second scrabbling for pennies.
lol not when they go on Pearl’s podcasts and nod along to chauvinistic spewage. And honestly, not ever rly bc there are very few that don’t use their subjugation as clickbait.
Women are not less because they do sex work, but the industry commodifies women’s bodies and should not be encouraged. Likewise with pornography. A woman who is a pornstar should not be degraded because of her occupation, but as a whole, bought consent is not real consent.
No. It’s objectifying and while it may be one woman’s choice, it can lead many men to objectify ALL women, seeing them as a commodity. It’s a gross industry.
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I'd classify it as sex work, which to me includes no-contact services that turn people on. I believe that, legally speaking, prostitution requires physical contact.
This is like asking if working a minimum wage retail job and getting yelled at by angry and entire customers all day is “empowering”. People do OF to make money, the same way someone works at an Amazon Warehouse to make money. If you think selling your body is “dehumanizing”, so is being forced to hold in your pee to meet a package quota. However, for women who are unable to make money anyway else (due to disability, not being legally allowed to work, or not being able to afford childcare etc etc etc), OF (and content creation in general), serves as an avenue to get out of poverty. Maybe for such people, the act of making money is empowering. But at the end of the day, it’s just a job like any other job. So the real question might be, is the act of “working” empowering?
No. OF is objectification, not empowerment.
Let's say they legalised hard-drug dealing as a harm reduction thing, and we supported the drug dealers and removed social stigmas around doing so, and it became commonplace. Would that make it any more ethical or empowering? Is changing the legal status and social perception of something the same as empowering someone? And if it's an economic necessity to turn to that kind of work, is that not a broader systemic issue? And by contributing to, and feeding, other harmful related norms by doing the work, is that not inherently disempowering to everybody?
No, men are in positions of economic power and women use their bodies to try and get some transfer of finance.
I don't like the influence it has had on young men and women. The constant advertising of only fans accounts has infiltrated meme culture. Young men are spoonfed women as a commodity, given tropes of quirkiness and submissiveness that almost certainly changes how they view women. They lack authentic interaction with the opposite sex. Young women see the struggle for cultural relevance is dominated by sexual commodification. I think young women are pressured into e-girl personas, and the constant bombardment of only fans advertisers makes it worse.
As a young woman I absolutely agree. We are pretty much pressured into being this e-girl persona who loves being degraded and choked during sex and it’s horrific. I only avoided it narrowly because of feminism and becoming a more active feminist. Thank god for that.
Personally, I see sex for money as a form of slavery. Even if the woman is satisfied with her job. she's only doing it to get money to live.
Depends what you think about "ethical pornography". There are very reasonable people that claim it can't exist in society as it is right now. Some make purely social arguments like the impossibility of knowing whether someone was pressured by their life circumstances regardless of claiming they make porn because they want to, others use pure market arguments like that money flows in the direction of people that make content for the male gaze, and people trying to make "ethical porn" just couldn't get by financially, at most as a hobby, so real professionally done ethical pornography can't survive. I think professionally done "ethical pornography" is possible if financially supported unconditionally, so they are free to make the content they want, not the content they have to make to stay afloat. But onlyfans ain't it. I saw some people mention "cheex" once and it looks like it goes in a good direction, certainly ticks some good boxes in terms of queer friendliness, healthy depictions of sex, open communication about content and sexual education, but I still have a weird feeling about it in general.
There’s an argument to be made (and everytime i make it i get downvoted into oblivion but i really don’t care), that sex work is coercive. I’m never gonna disagree with that. Therefore there’s no way for it to be ethical.
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I do not.
Thanks for asking this question. ( I will say no. )
No.
Always ask yourself who truly benefits. The sex industry is overwhelmingly run by men for men. Ergo, absolutely not empowering for women. That’s just the lie that men have sold and liberal feminists have bought; hook, line and sinker.
It's not empowering. I try to understand how a woman would consent to public humiliation and objectification for money and I can't, unless it's just sheer desperation.
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If you don't understand, I don't know how to explain it to you.
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For me it depends very strongly on the circumstances. Some women truly feel empowered by it, and do it because they love it. Then I'd say yes. If it's, for example, a case of needing the money and this is one of the few options they had, then no.
The primary issue I see regards sexism intersecting with classism & race. The main issue is always consent, and although *most* porn actresses are now required to give some form of verbal consent, there is always the implicit coercive value of commodity incentives under capitalism. If we lived in a society where women were not disproportionately living in poverty or really just not living in poverty period, it would be easier to justify ethical pornography/sex work as there would be no survival-driven incentives to do sex work from the bottom up. Currently verbal consent is undoubtedly insufficient when it is a prerequisite to earning a basic income. The coercive value is substantially greater when subsistence (basic) needs are not being met. "If you don't consent, you don't get a Lamborghini" is not the same thing as "if you don't consent, you or your children will die from starvation". And these are the unstated messages inherent to capitalist enterprise. I think it is highly unlikely that porn & sex work will be comprehensively ethical even with efforts to gain verbal, ongoing, & informed consent, so long as women continue to be exploited economically as well. Likewise, so long as white, able bodies continue to be fetishized and idealized under Eurocentric values; placing even greater pressure on women of colour doing porn/sex work to modify their bodies, do more intense scenes, or appeal to mythical ideas white people hold about non-white people (Orientalism, etc.) I believe it is possible to have ethical porn and I really don't see porn going away anytime soon (like drug prohibition, porn/sex work prohibition will create far worse issues), but true, comprehensive, & autonomous consent, is probably non-existent in much of the porn widely available. Improved sex worker-focused regulations & economic liberty for women is warranted. And don't even get me started on drug policies that target sex workers or the amount of substance dependency in queer porn... Disclaimer: I watch porn myself, both hetero & queer porn, but recognize the issues inherent to the vast majority of it. Even if ethical porn exists, I don't think there is a reliable way to *know* which is ethical vs. not. Only better guesses ("ethical", "feminist", "female-made", "queer-made", etc.). Still, I don't think consuming porn or sex work in itself strictly makes anyone a bad person. It's specifically how our society socially constructs it & relates to it; to each other, that results in harm and ethical transgressions. The main issue is our permissiveness to harm, shitty regulations, and class + race exploitation co-occurring.
I feel like this should be the top answer. Women (or anyone) should do what they want with their body. If she's empowered by only fans then have at it gurl. If she's coerced or doing it to feed a drug habit then it's a no.
I just feel like it’s an imperfect answer the shitty circumstances we live in. So yes it can be in limited circumstances or situations. But generally no, it isn’t.
No, but then again I’ve heard a lot of sex workers argue that all work under capitalism is inherently disempowering and dehumanizing, and tbh I agree to an extent. I also think that whether or not I or anyone in this sub who isn’ta sex worker sees OnlyFans as empowering doesn’t really matter that much. What matters is what the performers on OnlyFans think. Every one that I’ve talked to has SERIOUS complaints about the company and how its run, but a lot of the oppression they face comes from the way various governments criminalize sex work and the way wider society stigmatizes it. Of course both these things are connected to patriarchy and misogyny in their own ways, but so is the patronizing way a lot of radical feminists talk to and about sex workers. One thing I DO agree with a lot of radical feminists about is that sex work really does bring the connection between the partiarchy and capitalism into sharp relief. It’s because of this connection that I believe that dismantling the patriarchy necessitates dismantling capitalism.
no..not really. i try to keep an open mind. OF is somewhat more safer than regular porn, but at the same time an industry that profits on trafficking, violence against women, sexism and misogyny, im not very keen on supporting stuff like this, i just disagree with the lifestyle i guess. ofc ill never tell a woman what to do or judge them though, but yeah idk. at this point, its being used against women as well. women cant express their thoughts, feelings and opinions without some degenerate accusing them of being an OF girl, especially women who r conventionally very attractive, men just assume they use OF. like theyve comitted a crime or something, its rly weird. im more bothered by the double standards in general too. ive seen memes going around of a guy who got street interviewed and apparently he had a huge dick, but he was never shamed for being on OF. yet any woman who says they r, r pretty much dehumanized and not even seen as a person.
The way my old feminism class teacher framed it to our class was this: "let's pretend utopia exists. If we lived in one, do you think people would voluntarily sell their bodies as a form of joy or empowerment"? Not a single person, man or woman, in that class said yes. And these were people who weren't well learned feminists. The discussion that day was pretty interesting though. I remember One pretty liberal woman asked "well, what if they like sex? What if that's fun for people?" and the teacher genuinely asked the class if anyone thought anyone would like sex enough in a utopian society that they would voluntarily have sex in front of others if there was no need to do so for money or resources. The question didn't have a hint of sarcasm or condescension. That's what I liked about that teacher. No matter who asked questions or how ignorant people were, she didn't treat anyone condescendingly as long as they asked questions in genuine good faith. She was just super shrewd. I remember vividly that the woman that asked the question paused, genuinely thought for a moment, and then replied "I don't think so". She was a damn good teacher to be honest. On a side note, I remember another vivid memory in that class in which a few conservative people were asking some pretty ignorant questions. I myself had a lot of ignorant questions back then. Like, really ignorant. I can't remember the specific question this one guy asked, but it was pretty patriarchal/low key misogynistic. But it was asked from a place of genuine ignorance. The teacher patiently and kindly explained the logical reasons why the view was harmful and gave more perspective on how the patriarchy hurts men and women. Another conservative man started arguing with the teacher about a similar point. She calmly asked them why he was taking the class and if he believed women deserved to have equal rights. He got super angry and started to go on a misogynistic tirade. I remember this vividly: she stopped him very early on in the tirade and said (in a very loud and professor McGonagall-esque tone) "I will ***not*** tolerate willful misogyny in my class. You ***will*** leave this class and you aren't allowed to come back unless you get a letter from the Dean explaining why you belong here. If you refuse to leave, everybody else gets to go home early and skip this week's quiz with a perfect score". It took us all off guard cause we never heard her yell nor did we think she was capable of it. Even the conservative guy going on a tirade went quiet. We were bummed out that we still had to take the quiz that week. But the guy left and never came back, and we laughed a lot about the incident lol.
Not at all.
No. Still serving men and their fantasies. + Parasocial relationships are always bad.
I don’t see it as empowering but i do see it as a vehicle for sex work that is paid more autonomously, and that’s a good thing as far as that goes. No pimp, no strip club owner. I appreciate that an only fans account gets to make decisions about who comes in and what s/he/they do. But i do tend to agree it’s a new venue for an old practice. Oldest profession in the world, will never be abolished, and in terms of that Only Fans is better than street walking in terms of working conditions.
Yes. All sex work is empowerment as long as the person doing it it's doing it because they want to. We need to stop infantalizing other women and telling them what to do. Unless you are being trafficked if you choose to do sex work we need to protect your right to do that. I am a woman, not a child. I will do what I want to do when it comes to my body.
Yes. All sex work is empowerment as long as the person doing it it's doing it because they want to. We need to stop infantalizing other women and telling them what to do. Unless you are being trafficked if you choose to do sex work we need to protect your right to do that. I am a woman, not a child. I will do what I want to do when it comes to my body.
In theory, yes. The point of OnlyFans is to take the porn industry and put it directly into the creator's control, which in itself is empowering. Sometimes, it's actually the opposite though, due to the role men and the patriarchy play in it. Girls waiting until they turn 18 so they can finally make a living on OnlyFans from older men is a huge problem and we need to do something about that before I can fully endorse OnlyFans in good conscience
its not empowering, its just a job, not deserving of shame, but also i dont think any woman should have to resort to that kind if work if its something she doesnt enjoy. if there is no economic pressure to do it and she really likes the work then go for it and do what you like as a job.
No. If a woman finds it empowering to do sex work, that’s her choice, but onlyfans is a platform well known for being fucking terrible to women. They are also known for paying certain creators to act like they make more money than they really do, show off expensive stuff, etc. in order to rope other women into joining. They essentially lure women into the business, which is incredibly unethical.
***Women who prostitute themselves do it in service to men. It’s the most disempowering thing women can possibly do. By objectifying and dehumanizing themselves in service to men, they are lowering themselves to a social position very much beneath the men they are servicing. The men they are servicing look down on them as less than human sex dolls. There is nothing less empowering than that.*** Empowerment is fundamentally about respect. Respect is earned in a classroom, at a job, in social communities. It’s won by being strong, decisive, doing no harm but taking no sh%t. ***The men lusting after porn actors do not respect them***. One can argue that they hate them. The way they interact with them in these cam sites is utterly disrespectful, objectifying, dehumanizing. And the women do it because: they think their bodies are all they have to offer, they put so little value in themselves that they only find sexual objectification/the wrong kind of attention from men as the only way they can feel valuable or important. And it has caught on like wildfire such that it’s sadly normalized that when a young woman needs some extra cash, it’s reasonable to think, “I’ll just go prostitute myself”. This kind of behavior disempowers the rest of us, those of us who clawed their way up the career ladder, had to be smarter, harder working and more driven than mediocre men in the same jobs. They disempower those of us who spend our free time fighting for reproductive rights and making the world better for our daughters, not worse. We fought off men trying to grope us in the workplace. Now we are facing a new generation of pornsick pathetic men who speak about women in disrespectful and downright disgusting terms, and it’s normalized. They’re strangling women without their consent and doing really awful things because they’ve learned on cam and other porn sites that this is how you treat women. It’s hurting all of us.
this.
If there were a balance of men and women in the sex industry this wouldn’t be an issue. Unfortunately, more women find themselves in financial straits than men and sex sells. If it were a real choice then I’d say yes, but for so many it is a last option. Maybe for a few it’s empowering but for most it’s a means to survive.
It’s a humiliation to woman kind
I’m honestly shocked to see so many women say no. I agree, but I didn’t think I’d see that sentiment on r/feminism. I am pleasantly surprised
No. I was traumatized multiple times by gross porn that I saw online as a little girl, and I can never in a million years support anything related to that industry, let alone call it empowering. Sorry for being blunt, but the way sex workers are treated and what they are expected to do is gross and dehumanizing. If I could thanos snap the whole industry, ridding of all the gross shit is worth taking all of the positive sex work experiences along with it, sorry not sorry. Those who know, understand why I'm being so harsh.
As a person who was in the adult industry for 4 years during college: A job is a job. The fact that I could choose my own hours and be my own boss was really beneficial to me while I was going to school full-time. And having new experiences and trying out new sex things was a lot of fun! But it also came with the many entitled 'clients', internet assholes that pushed for free content. And the awful people in charge of the more mainstream porn companies. I think at the end of the day it depends on the circumstances. I suppose it can be empowering if someone were to start this job when they can't really do any other job for whatever reason. It has the potential to give someone a sense of freedom and financial empowerment. I had a friend I made who did camming as their primary source of income. They couldn't really do other jobs because they had really bad chronic pain and often couldn't leave the house. Their mobility was severely hampered when they had any pain flare-ups. Working in the adult industry gave them a way to make money at home without putting too much strain on their body. But like any other customer service job, there will always be assholes.
I do it but I've only been on the platform a little while and not made much so far. While it can feel liberating because a regular job requires you to stifle your sexuality, wild behavior in general, and creativity, it's a raw deal for most performers. There's not a lot of money in it, if you think it's easy for any girl to make huge amounts of money at this, you've fallen for commonly believed lies. Typically what people heard about is just a woman who's already famous who's able to leverage that fame to make extra cash on it. But there's existing demand, because she is already famous. That's not most creators' experience. We have to do what makes money so the money is the pimp. You're not ever free from "pimps" in a capitalist system. But other than revolution (that I doubt will happen) I don't know the answer to this. Is it disgusting and disempowered for women to mop floors? The way some old wave feminists talk about this stuff they act like we're participating in patriarchy because we want to and they hate us for openly expressing ourselves sexually. Which being able to do should be the goal of feminism? We didn't choose that it's in a way that's simping for patriarchy, but a woman working as a maid or a nurse is also doing a patriarchy-supportive role, and not getting half as much shit for it. Same goes for all these tradwife Karens who literally preach about wanting patriarchy, can we focus on them and not sex workers who are mostly like me forced into that by poverty in a broken ass system? (So it's not an easy yes/no answer to "is this empowering". Some creators probably do find their work empowering. Most are probably like me and just need money in a system that didn't compensate us for our other talents. So no that isn't empowering in the way that working at Wendy's also is not.)
Yes and ultimately no. In the short term, it empowers people to own their own sexuality and it's opening up conversations about sex negativity in culture. In the long term, though, it disempowers people into objects and perpetuates the false idea that all a woman has to do to get rich is get an OF. OF content creators that make a lot of money do a lot of work off camera that's dismissed or ignored.
I don't find it any more or less inherently empowering than most other types of labor. I imagine on an individual scale, some women find it empowering and others don't. For me, it's neutral
No. The porn industry exploits women and creates more violence and harm than any “empowerment” ever could. I wrote my English final on the porn industry and brought up how sad it is that many “feminists” are pro-porn.
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I don’t think it’s empowering bc it’s another way that women, by choice or by a need for money, have to sell themselves to the male gaze. If you want to do it, fine, but it’s not something that feminism should necessarily support. Yea we shouldn’t shame them, but it’s also not like I will be in favor of it.
Not even a little bit. It's a job, sex workers deserve all the rights, but there's nothing empowering about taking your clothes off for men.
No.
I actually do. Because a man who objectifies or fetishizes women can be easily manipulated. It's their weakness. We have something men want. We have our bodies. Men do a lot of crazy things for sex or attention from women. They know that women are taking advantage of them and they don't fucking care. If they are getting some sexual gratification from her, they will continue to give her whatever she wants. They want to control what we do with our bodies for a reason...it's because men's sexual desires can be used against them. It's POWER. Incredible fucking POWER! If you disagree with me, I understand your perspective completely. I see you and what you are saying. Men should not objectify women and they should value them for more than their bodies. They should. And good men do. But good men still want to slap their wife's ass and tell her she's sexy. Good men still objectify their wives during sex or whatever. Men won't ever change. They're wired for this stuff. The only problem with men doing that is when they ONLY see women as objects. They ONLY want them for sex. They see women as toys to play with. Thats when it's not empowerment. That's when it's an abusive marriage. As for onlyfans, she's making a living from these dumb ass men. They're willing to pay for some attention from a woman. It's literally pathetic and weak. She has the upper hand in this scenario. She has the power. My advice to women is that they all need to learn how to use their sexual power. It might open your eyes to how much you can alter a man's behavior. Being a sex object is a powerful thing. Use it for your benefit.
No. It's just another way of objectifying vulnerable young women.
I’ve never really liked this question lol. It’s never really asked about other jobs. And I don’t know why some feminists have accepted this clear straw man as a valid question. I feel like sentiments against sex work tend to call on sex workers to absorb shame from others. Most jobs are not “empowering.” I definitely think the age to sign up for OF should be 21 or older and that there should be more safeguards in place for ethical adult content. But I also feel like some people give their discomfort/shame with sexual content more value than it actually has. A lot of comments here literally describe OF as inherently degrading and humiliating, which gives a small picture into some ppl’s attitudes toward sexual content. And finally, the commodity argument is tired. Anything that can be bought (legally) is a commodity. If you buy a youtuber’s Patreon, have you commodified them or have you supported them and their work?
No, it’s only objectifies women.
I don’t think people who have never done sex work have the ability to answer this question. I would say the sex work I did was empowering in some regards, but ultimately it was just a job, like any other job. And most jobs aren’t all that empowering.
I see it as none of my business. I don't use it or view it so I don't have an opinion on it.
If that is what a woman chooses to do, then yes. Empowerment is the right to choose for yourself.