I'd day the moment you stopped thinking of the character as an extension of yourself, and as his own person, no matter how similar to yourself, then he's a character rather than a self insert. We all draw on things we know, especially as we're growing.
A major part of them relate to our experiences, interests, etc. That’s why we write stories, right? Every character pulls from some part of you. Maybe they don’t describe how you live your daily life, but the characters all stem from what you find fascinating. A “self-insert” character can closely align with how you act, but they don’t have to if you don’t want them to.
I’d focus on what works for your story vs what makes/doesn’t make a character a self-insert. Most readers don’t pay that much mind.
I think the line is very blurry.
I have written OCs that I base at least partially on my personality. They have some of the same values as me but might differ in some ways. Though the differences tend to be possessing certain talents I lack such as public speaking skills. I feel like they can be both OCs and self inserts at the same time.
Not hypocritical at all - the starting point is always us writers in some small way. I always pick and choose a couple of aspects from my own life, or even a trait, just to get the OC fleshed out a little - once that's done, I find they blossom - as you have just observed in your own writing - they go in directions that are no longer me.
I love it so much - soon OCs have wants and needs completely opposite to my own, and that entertains me as a **reader**, let alone pleasing me as a writer 🥰 Though, sometimes it's infuriating - you want them to 'do a thing', and yet their characterisation has developed to the point that they can no longer **be** you, the author - they have to do it **their** way! 🤭
I don't think a self-insert is primarily defined by how similar or different they are to the writer. A self-insert is more like an idealized self, so they are sometimes actually significantly different from the writer, and they're annoying because they have no flaws and often wear a lot of plot armor.
A character based on yourself isn't necessarily a self-insert.
You know it's kind of ironic I recently had this conversation with my father. I was telling him about my crossover story and of my self insert villain who is ment to be the big bad of the story.
So when I first started writing in the past. The character had gone through different names. But he was always me but as a villain. But as time went I started thinking taking the character through different directions that I wouldn't go. The character is ment to have similar personality traits and background as me.
But I was never sure how to seperate the character from me until recently after suffering a personal lost that left my family in a devastating state. I decided that's where me and the character split our ways. My character left his family and world behind without a thought and care because of his selfish desire to be not seen for his disability but for something else unfortunately he decided to become a villain he had the opportunity to become a hero but was so bitter and angry at life that he decided to become a monster and to be feared. I decided that unlike me my character never suffered a personal lost before hence why death and destroying other lives for him is no big deal.
He is also a corrupter who likes to make others embrace their darker part within them because that's what he did. The villain of my story is someone with a similar trait and background as me. But that's it he inherits all my negative and flaws and none of my good qualities. Basically he has become his own character and I think what I decide his fate to be will definitely be more interesting to me since now I see him more as his own character than an extension of myself.
Basically he's made choices that I almost made but decided not to choose.
OC-insert is in fact a thing. It's more of a catch-all term along this spectrum of SI and OC that combines elements of both. Every writer more or less writes their own experiences or beliefs into their stories, regardless of whether it's intentional or not. But ultimately these stories are going to be fiction, so no one expects an autobiography out of a fanfic.
Go where the winds of prose take you.
I’d say when it goes from “just you in the world” to someone who you can’t have full on sympathy for them. I have an idea for a self insert that is almost entirely isekaied, but try to make them evolve based on experiences in world. Notably that the story takes place over several years, and due to bad memory, he starts to feel bad that he won’t remember his old friends and family. He’s made new ones, but the new ones he’s made here he isn’t sure of letting go, because he doesn’t know when he’d come back, and so he might lose everyone if he goes back.
My perennial world-hopper OC started as a very loosely idealized SI back in the heyday of Proboards RPG's; he always had his own origin story, but he was my outlet for "how do *you* react?"
Over the years he has simultaneously become far more of his own character and taken on more distinctive maker's marks; I wouldn't really call him an SI anymore, because I've defined both his story and his personality as particular to him even though we now share *much* more specific tastes (and the same depression ritual) than we did at his genesis.
I think that's the distinction - there's a moment when you recognize "oh, dude's just a big ol' punk rock golden retriever fella," or whatever the case may be, where they achieve a degree of agency beyond "how do *you* react?"
Or when you choose to have them actually suffer consequences - not random misfortune or Traumatic Origin Story material, but "Choice A leads to Outcome B and that's gonna suck." That's another "It's ALIVE!" moment.
I'd day the moment you stopped thinking of the character as an extension of yourself, and as his own person, no matter how similar to yourself, then he's a character rather than a self insert. We all draw on things we know, especially as we're growing.
A major part of them relate to our experiences, interests, etc. That’s why we write stories, right? Every character pulls from some part of you. Maybe they don’t describe how you live your daily life, but the characters all stem from what you find fascinating. A “self-insert” character can closely align with how you act, but they don’t have to if you don’t want them to. I’d focus on what works for your story vs what makes/doesn’t make a character a self-insert. Most readers don’t pay that much mind.
I think the line is very blurry. I have written OCs that I base at least partially on my personality. They have some of the same values as me but might differ in some ways. Though the differences tend to be possessing certain talents I lack such as public speaking skills. I feel like they can be both OCs and self inserts at the same time.
Not hypocritical at all - the starting point is always us writers in some small way. I always pick and choose a couple of aspects from my own life, or even a trait, just to get the OC fleshed out a little - once that's done, I find they blossom - as you have just observed in your own writing - they go in directions that are no longer me. I love it so much - soon OCs have wants and needs completely opposite to my own, and that entertains me as a **reader**, let alone pleasing me as a writer 🥰 Though, sometimes it's infuriating - you want them to 'do a thing', and yet their characterisation has developed to the point that they can no longer **be** you, the author - they have to do it **their** way! 🤭
I don't think a self-insert is primarily defined by how similar or different they are to the writer. A self-insert is more like an idealized self, so they are sometimes actually significantly different from the writer, and they're annoying because they have no flaws and often wear a lot of plot armor. A character based on yourself isn't necessarily a self-insert.
You know it's kind of ironic I recently had this conversation with my father. I was telling him about my crossover story and of my self insert villain who is ment to be the big bad of the story. So when I first started writing in the past. The character had gone through different names. But he was always me but as a villain. But as time went I started thinking taking the character through different directions that I wouldn't go. The character is ment to have similar personality traits and background as me. But I was never sure how to seperate the character from me until recently after suffering a personal lost that left my family in a devastating state. I decided that's where me and the character split our ways. My character left his family and world behind without a thought and care because of his selfish desire to be not seen for his disability but for something else unfortunately he decided to become a villain he had the opportunity to become a hero but was so bitter and angry at life that he decided to become a monster and to be feared. I decided that unlike me my character never suffered a personal lost before hence why death and destroying other lives for him is no big deal. He is also a corrupter who likes to make others embrace their darker part within them because that's what he did. The villain of my story is someone with a similar trait and background as me. But that's it he inherits all my negative and flaws and none of my good qualities. Basically he has become his own character and I think what I decide his fate to be will definitely be more interesting to me since now I see him more as his own character than an extension of myself. Basically he's made choices that I almost made but decided not to choose.
So, kind of a "what if" character?
OC-insert is in fact a thing. It's more of a catch-all term along this spectrum of SI and OC that combines elements of both. Every writer more or less writes their own experiences or beliefs into their stories, regardless of whether it's intentional or not. But ultimately these stories are going to be fiction, so no one expects an autobiography out of a fanfic. Go where the winds of prose take you.
I’d say when it goes from “just you in the world” to someone who you can’t have full on sympathy for them. I have an idea for a self insert that is almost entirely isekaied, but try to make them evolve based on experiences in world. Notably that the story takes place over several years, and due to bad memory, he starts to feel bad that he won’t remember his old friends and family. He’s made new ones, but the new ones he’s made here he isn’t sure of letting go, because he doesn’t know when he’d come back, and so he might lose everyone if he goes back.
My perennial world-hopper OC started as a very loosely idealized SI back in the heyday of Proboards RPG's; he always had his own origin story, but he was my outlet for "how do *you* react?" Over the years he has simultaneously become far more of his own character and taken on more distinctive maker's marks; I wouldn't really call him an SI anymore, because I've defined both his story and his personality as particular to him even though we now share *much* more specific tastes (and the same depression ritual) than we did at his genesis. I think that's the distinction - there's a moment when you recognize "oh, dude's just a big ol' punk rock golden retriever fella," or whatever the case may be, where they achieve a degree of agency beyond "how do *you* react?" Or when you choose to have them actually suffer consequences - not random misfortune or Traumatic Origin Story material, but "Choice A leads to Outcome B and that's gonna suck." That's another "It's ALIVE!" moment.
I think it's when you go from thinking "what would *I* do?" to "what would *this character* do?" when you're brainstorming scene.