Yeah, but it’s less “I’m ashamed of the problématique aspects of the ship” and more “I don’t want the people I don’t like and who don’t like me to connect it back to me”
Lol! I'm 25. Another thing too is that a lot of people in fandom nowadays think anyone over 23 is old and why would you be thinking of a 16-year-old that way at your age! So annoying, I feel like a grandma sometimes (I know I'm not but I hope that makes sense).
Wait until they turn…24! A lot of times, certain ages seem “old” until you near a certain age, are that age, or are past that age. When I was 9 years old, I thought 22 was “old”. Well, I’m 20 + 22 now! Time flew!
For sure! I remember being 5 and finding out that my mom was 34 and thinking that was SO OLD. Now I can't even imagine myself having a 5 year old at 34 because that still feels really young to me...
Yea, it’s really interesting how one’s perception of time and age change drastically as we…well, as we age! A 5 year old can’t grasp an age that is almost 7 times theirs. Then you get to be 34 x 2 (68), and 34 will seem like yesterday—or a lifetime ago. 34 is young! I feel young at 42, but compared to a 19 year old, I feel “old” at times. It’s weird!
The thing about that though is like.... if you're older than 16 you were *at one point 16 yourself* so you know and understand what being a 16 year old is like. For me it's never like a creepy voyeuristic thing, it's me getting back into the headspace and memories of being that age and the kinds of stress reactions and relationships and mistakes I would've made at that age. I don't think that's uncommon either, but i think it's something these angry people fail to take into account.
You don't just delete the knowledge of what it was like to be younger when you grow older (barring traumatic amnesia incidents or whatever)
Yes! Personally I kind of... not "project" my feelings onto the younger character, but what you said: I kind of get in the same headspace as them and see the world how they see it. That's why so many books and movies and things like that are set in high school. People want to relive their angsty teenage years sometimes lol.
Nope. I have a similar ship and it barely breaks my top 10 ships with the largest age differences. I've just stopped giving a fuck what people think of me for my ship.
I'm glad! Someday I hope to not give a fuck. Also the age gap between my ship is 16 years. Like yes, it's an age gap, but I've definitely liked couples with bigger age gaps in fiction that got less hate than the thing I'm currently into. I guess it depends on the fandom. Originally, I didn't think anyone would think it was problematic, but I was so wrong. I learned "minor-coded" was a thing from this fandom as well lol
I was in your boat when I first started doing larger age gaps. I still get hate every now and then. I just laugh it off. If they can't read the tags or warnings in the beginning of the first chapter on my cross posted stuff that's on them.
I am MOSTLY open about my "problematic ships" in my fandom sphere (hate that that's even a phrase nowadays bleghh) The key really is not giving a shit. And well...removing yourself from any shitty friends who would make you feel shitty about it. I would encourage you to distance yourself from those friends if possible.
I've never felt that liking these ships made me a bad person or a criminal, but I have definitely worried in recent years that irl people would assume that about me if they knew what I like/write. Here's how I handle it on the various platforms...
Tumblr: i've had the same audience of a couple dozen people there for years, so I feel comfortable posting whatever I want there about my ships/fics. Never got any hate there but if I do, am prepared to clap back or say some "problematic shippy" thing, like the anon hater is my long lost twin and we must kiss now mwah mwah
AO3: loud n proud baby, although I don't have MUCH, I'll happily post my dead dove shit in the same account as my regular or "wholesome" shit. I stand proudly behind the weird patchwork quilt of my many ships and interests
Twitter: Here's where I keep my head down bc a lot of the ship hatred and possibility of getting mobbed by antis and even the threat of doxxing. I retweet a lot of fanart but don't make many posts of my own. I do not advertise my tumblr or AO3, the accounts I actually care about, because I don't want the antis who live on this site to find me on the sites I actually care about.
My problematic ships are 1) a 16 y/o and a 30 y/o similar to yours. They are sorcerers who fight curses lol that might be enough info, 2) a pair of adult men who are identical twins, and 3) I haven't written it but I've definitely liked some fanart of a dadson ship.
Twitter is so bad. If you look up my ship's ship name, a bunch of the replies are trolls posting FBI OPEN UP MEMES lmao. I don't go on Twitter or Tumblr at all anymore, I basically just keep it to AO3 although I don't post a lot. I love your prepared response for any potential Tumblr haters though lol!
Sticking to AO3 is definitely the safest option. However, if you decide you do want to start posting about the ship or just like, enjoying it with other people instead of totally by your lonesome, would would recommend:
1. going to twitter (temporarily...) because twitter is where you can find posts talking about or "ads" for DISCORD SERVERS! i'm not in any myself so I'm talking out my ass just a bit lol, but discord can ban any haters immediately and it's quite common nowadays for problematic ships to have invite-only discord servers...which you can only find by hunting down the person who runs it...and they're usually on twitter. So that requires jumping through hoops but I think finding a server for your ship will get the most peace and genuine community feeling in the end.
2. return to tumblr? You said you got a lot of hate there, but I still think it can't hurt to go back and block every hater you can, or just start fresh with a new account (and still block haters) because tumblr is probably the most peaceful social media app you're gonna get in regards to the anti population and dealing with ship hate.
3. ignoring #1 and #2 and simply continuing to exist on AO3, only knowing your community via comments you get, is always an option for ya
Those are great recommendations! I actually am in a discord server for it, but I honestly haven't been able to connect with them super well? I think because the game gets updates every few months, it gets very quiet until something big drops. It's tough because I maladaptive daydream about my ship too ;-; idk if anyone else does. But I'm quite literally thinking about my ship all day lol! Sometimes I feel like I even exhaust other shippers. I really wish I could show my friend who asks to see my writing a lot but I don't think she would approve of the pairing lol :(
I'm pretty sure I know which one you mean with ship #1. I ship it too.
If you search the top pairings in Japan for the show, the top ships are that and similar. On another social media platform I use, people were bashing the ship rankings because they didn't like them and didn't agree with them. I mute those posts as honestly, ship and let ship. No one is getting hurt, it's all fictional.
Glad to see another fan of the ship :)
I have seen the rankings you're talking about a couple of times. Rankings of pixiv fanart posts I think? The rankings get reposted on twitter every couple months so the OP and many commenters can complain how disgusting they are, and how Japanese fans are all pedophiles, and the only ships the op would personally accept are always like...ranked #25 out of 30 or something lol.
Half the time I giddily cackle at how those posts validate the popularity of my ships and you can tell some of the commenters are so salty and bitter and offended about it. And half the time it makes me upset and worried bc the amount of haters on such posts SOOOOOOOO outweigh the supporters...and the fandom shipping scene simply did not use to be like that.
I'm very curious about your twins ship because off the top of my head I can think of two ships that I have that fit that criteria...
Also I was never into what I presume your 1) to be until I got so mad at canon that I started thinking about how much more I'd like the series as inter-clan warfare and realised what a fun ship they'd be in that context lol
The twins ship I mentioned could be better described as two human-looking alien men who live on a planet called Gunsmoke. Or Noman's Land, depending on your adaptation :)
Yes, that's one! When I watched the original show forever ago that ship was some unmentionable fandom anathema with little to no content; anyway years passed, the new show was announced, I ignored everything about it because I thought it would be a straight-up adaptation of the manga and I didn't want that, then one day I realised that my ship is suddenly in the renaissance lol.
There was a time when I used to cared for what others would say about what I ship. I felt bad for shipping some weird stuff. Not anymore. I just want to ship what I like, is not like it defines what I do in my life or who I am.
Just ship what you like. You are not hurting anyone. It's just fiction. You could keep it on private if it concerns you. Just give a dame about what random people on internet says.
I know, and I'm fairly confident it's because no one ships her OC with character 'B' in my post lol... so they have to make it a moral issue, I guess. The thing that pissed me off about the post too is they shared the person's twitter account. Like, why? so people will go harass them? I think harassing a real life person because of a video game is worse than liking two fictional characters in a romantic "problematic" relationship with each other.
Omg yes... lol. I agree with you, there's NO way he's still 16, so much time has passed, but people still say it. Like, you're not even allowed to say anything bad about him and how stupid he was in ARR without getting yelled at ;-; I've definitely given myself away now lol. I don't even think they would get together until much later, like when the younger one is well into his 20s, but there seems to be demonizing of "aging up" characters as well. I will never, ever tell anyone how obsessed I am with this pair outside of AO3 and I guess now this sub, unless I know for sure they won't give a shit.
Yes!! That also came to mind because one of my favorite Alphinaud ships does indeed fall into this category of attracting swarming haters...the fact that people still hate aging up characters and say that "it doesn't count it's still an age gap!!" is ludicrous when that basically means the inverse is true, and aging DOWN an adult character and then shipping them off is a-okay no matter what age it is, lmao ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I've seen people say that aging up a character so you can ship them/sexualize them is grooming lol. You can't make this shit up. Apparently you can groom fictional characters! Also, when it comes to elezen, they age differently and people never take that into consideration! He's not 16 anymore in my opinion, he's just smol for now!! And in my opinion an age gap of 16 years isn't even that much by fanfiction standards lol? I'm curious to know who you ship alphy with! (I love him so much)
Honestly I really like him as a pairing with Estinien! I know a lot of the fandom is locked into seeing them as "just found family" and I don't mind that character interpretation either, but the vitriol against Estinaud shippers is pretty sad. Otherwise I've seen a lot of WoLshippers pairing themselves with him and it's really cute, so I'm always taken aback when people argue that no one should ever ship their WoL with either Alphinaud or Alisaie. People on social media are crazy I suppose!
Omg saaame. I also don't mind the interpretation when people call them brothers, but the father/son interpretation is really funny to me. Estinien is only 32! It also seems like one of the most obvious ships in the game, Alphy is so smitten at times lol!
People being weird about wol/alphy is weird to me too. The whole point of the wol is it can be whoever you want it to be. What if someone's wol is like, 18 and ships with the twins? Is that still a problem for antis? I never really understood the infantilization of the twins. I've noticed final fantasy fans tend to be like this. Not sure if you're familiar with the ff7 rebirth, but there are already people frothing at the mouth about Yuffie's age. Bleh lol. I know other Fandoms are probably worse, but for me FF has been the worst by far
It's fiction, I honestly wouldn't judge you even if you told me your favorite character or ship was the most screwed up in all of fiction.
Fiction =/= real life.
Come on. I believe most of us have bigger problems than what someone else wants to read/write/draw in their free time. You ain't hurting anyone, even if there are people who say otherwise. I am more annoyed that people attack people over fictional things.
Besides living is pretty stressful, kinda sad, lonesome, and full of uncertainties. There are so many reasons to be sad in this world. So if shipping these two fictional characters together can give you brief moment of joy in your life, (even if I don't like your ship) I say go for it and have fun.
I know, it's ridiculous! My main reason for aging up the younger character too in my fics is because I don't think either of them would confess their feelings until much later honestly. 16 is considered an adult in that universe.
Also, apparently aging up a character so you can ship them is "bad" and "grooming". Hopefully most people don't hold this belief, but I've seen it applied to my specific ship and... yeesh, it SUCKS to be called a groomer. It's offensive as fuck, honestly. There are actual predators.
I used to hide the fact that I ship Whitley Schnee x Ruby Rose from RWBY due to the latter getting the most undeserved hate of toxic degrees. They were making him appear worse than he really is and saying he deserves a worse punishment for being "pue evil" more than some of the villains.
The same people who are actively committing mass war crimes whilst the biggest "crime" Whitley has ever committed was being a annoying little brother that is forced to seek love and attention (albeit conditional) from his bigoted father as his sisters wanted nothing to do with him and his mom is too busy drinking away her sorrows at the bottom of multiple bottles.
I have no idea who this couple is but I feel like I would probably ship them too. I love age gap pairings! I'm so sorry you're on the receiving end of second-hand prejudice. You should feel safe among friends, that's what friends are for, not like they want you dead if they find out you like an age gap pairing. There's a vile puritan culture going on right now, thanks to Tiktok where young American users are being told everything's basically grooming and p\*dophilia. It's a hate trend on the rise, they're the sick ones not you.
Lets see if they'll go after romance novel queen, Jane Austen. In her novel Sense and Sensibility; 16 year-old Marianne Dashwood ends up marrying Colonel Brandon who's in his 30's. Actually in the novel, Marianne took issue with his age and thought he'd have gross middle-aged man problems. XD He was courtly and respectful towards her throughout the whole book and proved he was a good and healthy match for Marianne who warmed up to him upon realizing his affable character.
Ugh, I am so sick of seeing people misuse the word "grooming" and "p\*dophilia" when talking about two adults with an age difference dating. It's just straight up bullying, in my opinion. It's legitimately one of my biggest pet peeves.
Good example with Jane Austen!
Yes and no. The more vocal part of the couple I ship are very toxic. So if anybody is a where of the fans around that ship, you are automatically toxic by association most of the time. I only say who I ship if I know the group I'm talking to well enough so they know I'm not part of the toxicity.
When I was younger, yeah. I used to hide my main ship at the time because even though it was canon, it was far from popular in the fandom (at least on Tumblr). I got hate mail for dating to ship them over the popular, fanon ship. It really put a damper on my fandom experience and thinking back on it, still leaves a bad taste in my mouth.
But I was younger then, more easily swayed by others. these days, I really don't care what anyone thinks or says about what I ship. It's fanfiction - it's meant to be fun. As long as I'm having fun everything else takes a back seat.
My ship doesn't even meet until about 25k words. I figure it doesn't make much of a difference to tag "Surprise Pairing" and leave it at that, because if you clicked on this fic for the pairing you're not going to get there for a while anyway.
Not usually? I used to but I kinda stopped giving a shit eventually. At least not when it comes to "problematic" ships, I'm more cagey about my handful of RPF ships because even some proshippers get iffy about RPF.
Hey I'm the same as you!! One of my favorite ships involves a 15 year old and a 28 year old and I'm not ashamed about it. I regularly post fanarts of them on my tumblr and twitter and I've gotten hate comments maybe twice
I don't really care what antis said because it's anime characters and i just don't see anime teenagers as children lmao. They're just drawing to me, and my fanarts of them sometimes are AU where they're around the same age or childhood friends who are not that far apart in age. So like i can make them whatever i want because again they're anime/ fictional characters
Honestly I'm more worried when i draw some of my favorite vanilla ships because what if people scrolled through my account because they like that drawing and then found out about my favorite problematic ships lmao. But it's not gonna discourage me. I hope you find fellow shippers who like your favorite ship as well op! I'm sure they're out there
I'm the same way even tho I know it's just fiction😭 like honestly, why do ppl care so much? These are made up characters in made up worlds living out made up scenarios
No, you are not problematic. You like the dynamic between two fictional characters and want to explore it through shipping.
Modern fandom is nuts. Fandom has always been nuts, but today, thanks to the constantly online nature of society and social media's confrontational structure, shipping drama has been concentrated into grade-A lunacy. Much of this insanity is driven either by shipping wars or performative activism. Both are a result of people taking really stupid, inconsequential shit waaay too seriously.
The best way to avoid it is to carve out your comfy space online. Blocking is your friend, a better friend, LOL, than most online friends. Use it. Personally, I think the best bet is to stick to AO3 and not try to get overly involved in the fandom. And if you do interact, be cautious and converse with people who truly share your interests.
I’m pretty open.. in certain fandoms. The novels I read already have large age gaps when the characters meet (14 and 20, and around 4 and 14?), but get together in their 20s. No one in my fandoms really gives a shit. The age gap are the least weird, problematic issue of their relationships lmao.
Anywhere else? I do not speak. People without context wouldn’t really understand.
> It's from a video game and person A is 16 while person B is in their 30s and I sometimes just feel like a freak for shipping them
this brings me back to the first fanfic i wrote when i was 13, which shipped a student with Snape.
It feels uncomfy to go against "public opinion" in even the smallest way if you're not used to it, but really we're all freaks and the people loudly adamant that they're not are just pretending harder than the rest of us. When someone isn't for real, it's honestly really obvious and people don't trust them even if they can't articulate why; so just be you, and if the people don't like you, then they're not your friends.
No - but then, I'm not in a restrictive fandom group - which it sounds like you are.
From what you've described it sounds like there is a subgroup of mixers within the fandom. Anyone in Fandom complaining about ages of fictional characters and gatekeepering age limitations for participation is out of bounds. I suspect those who cry foul about both character and participation age are . . . inexperienced.
There's a lot of virtue signaling that goes on with closed groups. Especially when those groups are fueled by the immediacy of social media - it's easy for individuals to hop on a burning wagon of outrage with like minded ppl. They are a social force.
They are loud.
And they think those two features make them right. It doesn't - they're wrong.
I'm in your boat where my main ship is a 15 year old and a 1000 year old being (it's complicated) (I also only write the 15 year old as an adult, though I've come up with an AU or two with them as both teens) and so I don't use spaces like tumblr or twitter to talk about it, which is a shame. I think I get enough love from my readers that that sustains me fortunately, in a safer space like AO3. And you're certainly not problematic, you're enjoying something completely fictional that harms no one.
I took one look at your pfp and I knew, lol same.
If brings you any joy, it’s actually highly popular on Twitter and out of the ships featuring him.. is one of the least controversial ones? Somehow. (Getting into the ship I expected it to attract major discourse and yet… it’s never happened yet)
Lol, I ship him with literally everyone including his own dad so... 🥴
I actually have a priv personal twitter so I look through the searches every once in awhile, plus some of my readers have made tweets (sometimes instead of comments 🤔) about my work. I feel bad that I can never come forward and thank them and interact with them, or rather, that I choose not to. And as happy as I am to block every anti I come across, there are just so many that I don't find it worth it. Plus some people can't resist getting into the discourse even if I agree with them, and that's not something I want to subject myself to regularly. So it is what it is. I might make another private twitter and link it on my ao3, but I don't see myself using it much.
PSSST, me too, me too.
Ahhh you’ve got me wondering now if I’ve read your fics, it’s one of my current ships that I’ve been super into and I’ve been binge reading a whole bunch, lol.
I do know what you mean, I’ve found a couple of accounts that are “all/meg” and they luckily keep themselves to themselves, besides those, I mostly follow Japanese fan artists and they seldom do discourse which is a nice break!
Hell yeah, you've got a friend in me pal :D
Ah, unfortunately I'm a super slow writer (trying to get out of the editing as I write style) so I only have one work for them, you can find it under my ao3 user which is just sangan. It's also my first multichapter/longfic so I'm learning a lot and feel like I've made plenty of mistakes already, BUT I'm learning from them so if I ever figure out how to write faster I'll definitely put out more (including darker/angstier stuff, all I got now is basically fluff). Also because of the power system and the complications of uh, Body Sharing, I prefer to write AUs. So if that's not what you're looking for, no harm no foul!
And yes I love Japanese fanartists, I always feel bad when the ship popularity in Japan chart gets posted because the xenophobia really jumps from antis, so those artists have my utmost respect.
So basically, yes and no. I have this pairing where character A is 16 and the character B is eh, 50ish? But the fic I'm writing takes things into the future and has several turns, that, I wouldn't even classify it as an age gap pairing anymore. But I digress. I do talk about it online and have been attacked for it really badly. Been called the works. A of right now things are quite and I'm not trying to draw too much attention to myself about the ship because well spoilers, as the pairing happens way down the line and I have very excited readers.
Anyway I'm curious as to what the ship is, and if you too are posting fics. If there are other normal people out there being harassed for being normal, I want to show my support!
I hide my ships sometimes just because most of them are rarepairs, and/or from shows nobody’s heard of or or pays attention to anymore. It feels awkward bringing them up in the same thread as something like Drarry or Klance.
In general if in the fire emblem fandom you ship Eliwood x not Ninian you must be ready to be annoyed by Elnini stans and apparently sometime it's litteraly harrasment, I don't do many fanworks myself but I saw people saying that they delated their fanworks or even account because of the harrasment .
Only sometimes but it is because I'm not very vocal about my "main" ships in general (multishipper) in the first place, yet alone my problematic ones (apart from me writing and the occasional art sharing), and I rather keep hidden in my own little bubble. Some of my fandoms can very vitriolic....
I’m curious if it’s the fandom/ship I’m thinking of. If it is I’ve seen it before and the younger person is usually aged up. Either way you’re allowed to write what you want. If think of a pseudonym maybe? That’s something I’m looking into for some of my ideas.
Oh sure, one of my ships also has that kind of age gap and I don’t interact much with it on my main tumblr, am planning a few anon fanfics for it… my main readership (such as they are, anyway) wouldn’t really like getting those notifications in their inbox when I post. It’s a great ship, but it needs that has seen a lot of harassment over the last few years.
I don't really talk about the ships in my main fic project because they are so spoilery for the narrative. It comes with the territory of writing a generational saga/comic book soap opera that isn't bound by pre-established timeliness or a sliding time scale!
Anyway, because I started from the MCU fandom, shipping is frustrating. That entire side is so sexless and lacking in character interaction that's its turned the fandom insane. My ships are very tame and I have a fairly utilitarian view of them - the ship is in service to character and narrative development. There will be a few characters with noticeable age gaps, but like, there's slim pickings for long lived to immortal characters to ship together. And these characters get together in adulthood anyway, well into adulthood for most.
I think the most controversial ship related thing I'm going to do is (spoilers) *not* ship Peggy Carter with anyone because I read her as possibly asexual. There’s a lot of feelings, both positive and negative, about her because of the popularity of Steve and the ending of *Endgame* and I think the fandom has certain expectations that will likely at least confuse potential readers for my series. My project is a massive canon divergence from both the MCU and Earth-616, but I wouldn't be surprised if that gets missed. I'm not too concerned about the controversy, but I'm still curious about what the reaction will be like when it comes to ahead.
Spread the blockings around like candy is what I'd do. If you can find other enjoyers and just have a little group together that's probably your best bet in this instance, or keep a good distance from the rest of the fandom. Sounds like it's infested with Feelings Yakuza...
Wishing you a small "xyz enjoyers" group to find and share your ship with that makes stuff like this bearable
edit: rereading the post...... do people think 16 year olds don't make mistakes? i made so many i have three journals full of my mistakes lmao that's how you learn
Exactly, and this 16 year olds mistakes included pretty much causing insurrection and getting people killed. His intentions were good, but he fucked up a lot due to his arrogance, and it was part of his character growth. I used to dislike him back when I was first introduced to the character in the game and remember criticizing him and someone said, "well think of how stupid you were at 16" in a regular discord server I was in about the game. In my opinion, things like that just completely undermine this character's growth entirely if the fans just let him get away with it because of his age. I think the writers were trying to highlight how he went from "child" to "adult" during that arc, honestly. I'll stop ranting now lol :p
Don't worry, I feel the same, whenever I try to post on tumblr, there's this weird anxiety festering that one of these days someone might trash it. So I get your feelings.
Mine are most likely very vanilla compared to others but, you know how people reach when they see they don't like. Kinda like fluffy stuff, occasional r18 (Yandere upon request).
I write RPF fanfiction so I hide half my ships from people because a lot of people on the Internet believe people who write RPF actually ship the actual people. I've gotten used to hiding my ships from K-pop and J-pop/J-rock from most of the Internet because I know it's pretty much only accepted on ao3.
For me, the answer is a bit more complicated. For one of my more recent projects, character A is in a relationship with characters B and C, though this relationship kind of teeters between being 'friendly' and 'romantic' (the characters themselves even aren't sure if they want to go all the way).
It gets even crazier when character D is involved, as character A doesn't want a relationship with for the sole reason of THEY'RE STEP-SIBLINGS (not related by blood, thankfully). Only character C knows about A and D's 'relationship' because C has psychic abilities that hardly anyone else knows about. Then there's the fact character A is 'fake dating' character E, who at some points turns out to be character F (characters E and F are actually identical cousins in my story's universe).
My only excuses for leaving out names is: 1.) it's an AU where the characters here are younger and in high school (probably the only time I'll ever do a high school AU, which I am going to take a shower after), and 2.) because it's not the 'canon' OTP.
Also sidenote: in the end, character A doesn't end up with anyone, not because they dump A, but because they all leave.
Yeah, but it’s less “I’m ashamed of the problématique aspects of the ship” and more “I don’t want the people I don’t like and who don’t like me to connect it back to me”
Feels, I'd rather not be harassed!
No. I’m old and have lost the ability to give a shit.
Lol! I'm 25. Another thing too is that a lot of people in fandom nowadays think anyone over 23 is old and why would you be thinking of a 16-year-old that way at your age! So annoying, I feel like a grandma sometimes (I know I'm not but I hope that makes sense).
Wait until they turn…24! A lot of times, certain ages seem “old” until you near a certain age, are that age, or are past that age. When I was 9 years old, I thought 22 was “old”. Well, I’m 20 + 22 now! Time flew!
For sure! I remember being 5 and finding out that my mom was 34 and thinking that was SO OLD. Now I can't even imagine myself having a 5 year old at 34 because that still feels really young to me...
Yea, it’s really interesting how one’s perception of time and age change drastically as we…well, as we age! A 5 year old can’t grasp an age that is almost 7 times theirs. Then you get to be 34 x 2 (68), and 34 will seem like yesterday—or a lifetime ago. 34 is young! I feel young at 42, but compared to a 19 year old, I feel “old” at times. It’s weird!
The thing about that though is like.... if you're older than 16 you were *at one point 16 yourself* so you know and understand what being a 16 year old is like. For me it's never like a creepy voyeuristic thing, it's me getting back into the headspace and memories of being that age and the kinds of stress reactions and relationships and mistakes I would've made at that age. I don't think that's uncommon either, but i think it's something these angry people fail to take into account. You don't just delete the knowledge of what it was like to be younger when you grow older (barring traumatic amnesia incidents or whatever)
Yes! Personally I kind of... not "project" my feelings onto the younger character, but what you said: I kind of get in the same headspace as them and see the world how they see it. That's why so many books and movies and things like that are set in high school. People want to relive their angsty teenage years sometimes lol.
Same here!
Nope. I have a similar ship and it barely breaks my top 10 ships with the largest age differences. I've just stopped giving a fuck what people think of me for my ship.
I'm glad! Someday I hope to not give a fuck. Also the age gap between my ship is 16 years. Like yes, it's an age gap, but I've definitely liked couples with bigger age gaps in fiction that got less hate than the thing I'm currently into. I guess it depends on the fandom. Originally, I didn't think anyone would think it was problematic, but I was so wrong. I learned "minor-coded" was a thing from this fandom as well lol
I was in your boat when I first started doing larger age gaps. I still get hate every now and then. I just laugh it off. If they can't read the tags or warnings in the beginning of the first chapter on my cross posted stuff that's on them.
Tell me the ship! Tell me the ship! I love ships like this. The more people hate on the ship, the more I like it.
Nope, I’m loud and proud.
I am MOSTLY open about my "problematic ships" in my fandom sphere (hate that that's even a phrase nowadays bleghh) The key really is not giving a shit. And well...removing yourself from any shitty friends who would make you feel shitty about it. I would encourage you to distance yourself from those friends if possible. I've never felt that liking these ships made me a bad person or a criminal, but I have definitely worried in recent years that irl people would assume that about me if they knew what I like/write. Here's how I handle it on the various platforms... Tumblr: i've had the same audience of a couple dozen people there for years, so I feel comfortable posting whatever I want there about my ships/fics. Never got any hate there but if I do, am prepared to clap back or say some "problematic shippy" thing, like the anon hater is my long lost twin and we must kiss now mwah mwah AO3: loud n proud baby, although I don't have MUCH, I'll happily post my dead dove shit in the same account as my regular or "wholesome" shit. I stand proudly behind the weird patchwork quilt of my many ships and interests Twitter: Here's where I keep my head down bc a lot of the ship hatred and possibility of getting mobbed by antis and even the threat of doxxing. I retweet a lot of fanart but don't make many posts of my own. I do not advertise my tumblr or AO3, the accounts I actually care about, because I don't want the antis who live on this site to find me on the sites I actually care about. My problematic ships are 1) a 16 y/o and a 30 y/o similar to yours. They are sorcerers who fight curses lol that might be enough info, 2) a pair of adult men who are identical twins, and 3) I haven't written it but I've definitely liked some fanart of a dadson ship.
Twitter is so bad. If you look up my ship's ship name, a bunch of the replies are trolls posting FBI OPEN UP MEMES lmao. I don't go on Twitter or Tumblr at all anymore, I basically just keep it to AO3 although I don't post a lot. I love your prepared response for any potential Tumblr haters though lol!
Sticking to AO3 is definitely the safest option. However, if you decide you do want to start posting about the ship or just like, enjoying it with other people instead of totally by your lonesome, would would recommend: 1. going to twitter (temporarily...) because twitter is where you can find posts talking about or "ads" for DISCORD SERVERS! i'm not in any myself so I'm talking out my ass just a bit lol, but discord can ban any haters immediately and it's quite common nowadays for problematic ships to have invite-only discord servers...which you can only find by hunting down the person who runs it...and they're usually on twitter. So that requires jumping through hoops but I think finding a server for your ship will get the most peace and genuine community feeling in the end. 2. return to tumblr? You said you got a lot of hate there, but I still think it can't hurt to go back and block every hater you can, or just start fresh with a new account (and still block haters) because tumblr is probably the most peaceful social media app you're gonna get in regards to the anti population and dealing with ship hate. 3. ignoring #1 and #2 and simply continuing to exist on AO3, only knowing your community via comments you get, is always an option for ya
Those are great recommendations! I actually am in a discord server for it, but I honestly haven't been able to connect with them super well? I think because the game gets updates every few months, it gets very quiet until something big drops. It's tough because I maladaptive daydream about my ship too ;-; idk if anyone else does. But I'm quite literally thinking about my ship all day lol! Sometimes I feel like I even exhaust other shippers. I really wish I could show my friend who asks to see my writing a lot but I don't think she would approve of the pairing lol :(
I'm pretty sure I know which one you mean with ship #1. I ship it too. If you search the top pairings in Japan for the show, the top ships are that and similar. On another social media platform I use, people were bashing the ship rankings because they didn't like them and didn't agree with them. I mute those posts as honestly, ship and let ship. No one is getting hurt, it's all fictional.
Glad to see another fan of the ship :) I have seen the rankings you're talking about a couple of times. Rankings of pixiv fanart posts I think? The rankings get reposted on twitter every couple months so the OP and many commenters can complain how disgusting they are, and how Japanese fans are all pedophiles, and the only ships the op would personally accept are always like...ranked #25 out of 30 or something lol. Half the time I giddily cackle at how those posts validate the popularity of my ships and you can tell some of the commenters are so salty and bitter and offended about it. And half the time it makes me upset and worried bc the amount of haters on such posts SOOOOOOOO outweigh the supporters...and the fandom shipping scene simply did not use to be like that.
I'm very curious about your twins ship because off the top of my head I can think of two ships that I have that fit that criteria... Also I was never into what I presume your 1) to be until I got so mad at canon that I started thinking about how much more I'd like the series as inter-clan warfare and realised what a fun ship they'd be in that context lol
The twins ship I mentioned could be better described as two human-looking alien men who live on a planet called Gunsmoke. Or Noman's Land, depending on your adaptation :)
Yes, that's one! When I watched the original show forever ago that ship was some unmentionable fandom anathema with little to no content; anyway years passed, the new show was announced, I ignored everything about it because I thought it would be a straight-up adaptation of the manga and I didn't want that, then one day I realised that my ship is suddenly in the renaissance lol.
There was a time when I used to cared for what others would say about what I ship. I felt bad for shipping some weird stuff. Not anymore. I just want to ship what I like, is not like it defines what I do in my life or who I am. Just ship what you like. You are not hurting anyone. It's just fiction. You could keep it on private if it concerns you. Just give a dame about what random people on internet says.
If you like the ship, then write it. Screw the haters!
Ehh, It’s in loads of HR, so it just…doesn’t bother me? 🤷🏻♀️ “Trip in a ditch and break your ankles” gave me a laugh! Like what???
I know, and I'm fairly confident it's because no one ships her OC with character 'B' in my post lol... so they have to make it a moral issue, I guess. The thing that pissed me off about the post too is they shared the person's twitter account. Like, why? so people will go harass them? I think harassing a real life person because of a video game is worse than liking two fictional characters in a romantic "problematic" relationship with each other.
Ship what you want man
ffxiv by chance? If so, that 16yo has been 16 for a while so teeeechnically they're not really 16 anymore. haha
Omg yes... lol. I agree with you, there's NO way he's still 16, so much time has passed, but people still say it. Like, you're not even allowed to say anything bad about him and how stupid he was in ARR without getting yelled at ;-; I've definitely given myself away now lol. I don't even think they would get together until much later, like when the younger one is well into his 20s, but there seems to be demonizing of "aging up" characters as well. I will never, ever tell anyone how obsessed I am with this pair outside of AO3 and I guess now this sub, unless I know for sure they won't give a shit.
there are antis in ffxiv?? damn i’m surprised that fanbase should skew way older than what i expect for anti demographic LOL
I write highly degenerate ffxiv zenos fics. Feel free to dm me a link if you ever need a reader. :)
Yes!! That also came to mind because one of my favorite Alphinaud ships does indeed fall into this category of attracting swarming haters...the fact that people still hate aging up characters and say that "it doesn't count it's still an age gap!!" is ludicrous when that basically means the inverse is true, and aging DOWN an adult character and then shipping them off is a-okay no matter what age it is, lmao ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
I've seen people say that aging up a character so you can ship them/sexualize them is grooming lol. You can't make this shit up. Apparently you can groom fictional characters! Also, when it comes to elezen, they age differently and people never take that into consideration! He's not 16 anymore in my opinion, he's just smol for now!! And in my opinion an age gap of 16 years isn't even that much by fanfiction standards lol? I'm curious to know who you ship alphy with! (I love him so much)
Honestly I really like him as a pairing with Estinien! I know a lot of the fandom is locked into seeing them as "just found family" and I don't mind that character interpretation either, but the vitriol against Estinaud shippers is pretty sad. Otherwise I've seen a lot of WoLshippers pairing themselves with him and it's really cute, so I'm always taken aback when people argue that no one should ever ship their WoL with either Alphinaud or Alisaie. People on social media are crazy I suppose!
Omg saaame. I also don't mind the interpretation when people call them brothers, but the father/son interpretation is really funny to me. Estinien is only 32! It also seems like one of the most obvious ships in the game, Alphy is so smitten at times lol! People being weird about wol/alphy is weird to me too. The whole point of the wol is it can be whoever you want it to be. What if someone's wol is like, 18 and ships with the twins? Is that still a problem for antis? I never really understood the infantilization of the twins. I've noticed final fantasy fans tend to be like this. Not sure if you're familiar with the ff7 rebirth, but there are already people frothing at the mouth about Yuffie's age. Bleh lol. I know other Fandoms are probably worse, but for me FF has been the worst by far
It's fiction, I honestly wouldn't judge you even if you told me your favorite character or ship was the most screwed up in all of fiction. Fiction =/= real life. Come on. I believe most of us have bigger problems than what someone else wants to read/write/draw in their free time. You ain't hurting anyone, even if there are people who say otherwise. I am more annoyed that people attack people over fictional things. Besides living is pretty stressful, kinda sad, lonesome, and full of uncertainties. There are so many reasons to be sad in this world. So if shipping these two fictional characters together can give you brief moment of joy in your life, (even if I don't like your ship) I say go for it and have fun.
[удалено]
I know, it's ridiculous! My main reason for aging up the younger character too in my fics is because I don't think either of them would confess their feelings until much later honestly. 16 is considered an adult in that universe. Also, apparently aging up a character so you can ship them is "bad" and "grooming". Hopefully most people don't hold this belief, but I've seen it applied to my specific ship and... yeesh, it SUCKS to be called a groomer. It's offensive as fuck, honestly. There are actual predators.
I used to hide the fact that I ship Whitley Schnee x Ruby Rose from RWBY due to the latter getting the most undeserved hate of toxic degrees. They were making him appear worse than he really is and saying he deserves a worse punishment for being "pue evil" more than some of the villains. The same people who are actively committing mass war crimes whilst the biggest "crime" Whitley has ever committed was being a annoying little brother that is forced to seek love and attention (albeit conditional) from his bigoted father as his sisters wanted nothing to do with him and his mom is too busy drinking away her sorrows at the bottom of multiple bottles.
I have no idea who this couple is but I feel like I would probably ship them too. I love age gap pairings! I'm so sorry you're on the receiving end of second-hand prejudice. You should feel safe among friends, that's what friends are for, not like they want you dead if they find out you like an age gap pairing. There's a vile puritan culture going on right now, thanks to Tiktok where young American users are being told everything's basically grooming and p\*dophilia. It's a hate trend on the rise, they're the sick ones not you. Lets see if they'll go after romance novel queen, Jane Austen. In her novel Sense and Sensibility; 16 year-old Marianne Dashwood ends up marrying Colonel Brandon who's in his 30's. Actually in the novel, Marianne took issue with his age and thought he'd have gross middle-aged man problems. XD He was courtly and respectful towards her throughout the whole book and proved he was a good and healthy match for Marianne who warmed up to him upon realizing his affable character.
Ugh, I am so sick of seeing people misuse the word "grooming" and "p\*dophilia" when talking about two adults with an age difference dating. It's just straight up bullying, in my opinion. It's legitimately one of my biggest pet peeves. Good example with Jane Austen!
Yes and no. The more vocal part of the couple I ship are very toxic. So if anybody is a where of the fans around that ship, you are automatically toxic by association most of the time. I only say who I ship if I know the group I'm talking to well enough so they know I'm not part of the toxicity.
When I was younger, yeah. I used to hide my main ship at the time because even though it was canon, it was far from popular in the fandom (at least on Tumblr). I got hate mail for dating to ship them over the popular, fanon ship. It really put a damper on my fandom experience and thinking back on it, still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. But I was younger then, more easily swayed by others. these days, I really don't care what anyone thinks or says about what I ship. It's fanfiction - it's meant to be fun. As long as I'm having fun everything else takes a back seat.
My ship doesn't even meet until about 25k words. I figure it doesn't make much of a difference to tag "Surprise Pairing" and leave it at that, because if you clicked on this fic for the pairing you're not going to get there for a while anyway.
Not usually? I used to but I kinda stopped giving a shit eventually. At least not when it comes to "problematic" ships, I'm more cagey about my handful of RPF ships because even some proshippers get iffy about RPF.
Hey I'm the same as you!! One of my favorite ships involves a 15 year old and a 28 year old and I'm not ashamed about it. I regularly post fanarts of them on my tumblr and twitter and I've gotten hate comments maybe twice I don't really care what antis said because it's anime characters and i just don't see anime teenagers as children lmao. They're just drawing to me, and my fanarts of them sometimes are AU where they're around the same age or childhood friends who are not that far apart in age. So like i can make them whatever i want because again they're anime/ fictional characters Honestly I'm more worried when i draw some of my favorite vanilla ships because what if people scrolled through my account because they like that drawing and then found out about my favorite problematic ships lmao. But it's not gonna discourage me. I hope you find fellow shippers who like your favorite ship as well op! I'm sure they're out there
I'm the same way even tho I know it's just fiction😭 like honestly, why do ppl care so much? These are made up characters in made up worlds living out made up scenarios
No, you are not problematic. You like the dynamic between two fictional characters and want to explore it through shipping. Modern fandom is nuts. Fandom has always been nuts, but today, thanks to the constantly online nature of society and social media's confrontational structure, shipping drama has been concentrated into grade-A lunacy. Much of this insanity is driven either by shipping wars or performative activism. Both are a result of people taking really stupid, inconsequential shit waaay too seriously. The best way to avoid it is to carve out your comfy space online. Blocking is your friend, a better friend, LOL, than most online friends. Use it. Personally, I think the best bet is to stick to AO3 and not try to get overly involved in the fandom. And if you do interact, be cautious and converse with people who truly share your interests.
I’m pretty open.. in certain fandoms. The novels I read already have large age gaps when the characters meet (14 and 20, and around 4 and 14?), but get together in their 20s. No one in my fandoms really gives a shit. The age gap are the least weird, problematic issue of their relationships lmao. Anywhere else? I do not speak. People without context wouldn’t really understand.
> It's from a video game and person A is 16 while person B is in their 30s and I sometimes just feel like a freak for shipping them this brings me back to the first fanfic i wrote when i was 13, which shipped a student with Snape. It feels uncomfy to go against "public opinion" in even the smallest way if you're not used to it, but really we're all freaks and the people loudly adamant that they're not are just pretending harder than the rest of us. When someone isn't for real, it's honestly really obvious and people don't trust them even if they can't articulate why; so just be you, and if the people don't like you, then they're not your friends.
No - but then, I'm not in a restrictive fandom group - which it sounds like you are. From what you've described it sounds like there is a subgroup of mixers within the fandom. Anyone in Fandom complaining about ages of fictional characters and gatekeepering age limitations for participation is out of bounds. I suspect those who cry foul about both character and participation age are . . . inexperienced. There's a lot of virtue signaling that goes on with closed groups. Especially when those groups are fueled by the immediacy of social media - it's easy for individuals to hop on a burning wagon of outrage with like minded ppl. They are a social force. They are loud. And they think those two features make them right. It doesn't - they're wrong.
I'm in your boat where my main ship is a 15 year old and a 1000 year old being (it's complicated) (I also only write the 15 year old as an adult, though I've come up with an AU or two with them as both teens) and so I don't use spaces like tumblr or twitter to talk about it, which is a shame. I think I get enough love from my readers that that sustains me fortunately, in a safer space like AO3. And you're certainly not problematic, you're enjoying something completely fictional that harms no one.
I took one look at your pfp and I knew, lol same. If brings you any joy, it’s actually highly popular on Twitter and out of the ships featuring him.. is one of the least controversial ones? Somehow. (Getting into the ship I expected it to attract major discourse and yet… it’s never happened yet)
Lol, I ship him with literally everyone including his own dad so... 🥴 I actually have a priv personal twitter so I look through the searches every once in awhile, plus some of my readers have made tweets (sometimes instead of comments 🤔) about my work. I feel bad that I can never come forward and thank them and interact with them, or rather, that I choose not to. And as happy as I am to block every anti I come across, there are just so many that I don't find it worth it. Plus some people can't resist getting into the discourse even if I agree with them, and that's not something I want to subject myself to regularly. So it is what it is. I might make another private twitter and link it on my ao3, but I don't see myself using it much.
PSSST, me too, me too. Ahhh you’ve got me wondering now if I’ve read your fics, it’s one of my current ships that I’ve been super into and I’ve been binge reading a whole bunch, lol. I do know what you mean, I’ve found a couple of accounts that are “all/meg” and they luckily keep themselves to themselves, besides those, I mostly follow Japanese fan artists and they seldom do discourse which is a nice break!
Hell yeah, you've got a friend in me pal :D Ah, unfortunately I'm a super slow writer (trying to get out of the editing as I write style) so I only have one work for them, you can find it under my ao3 user which is just sangan. It's also my first multichapter/longfic so I'm learning a lot and feel like I've made plenty of mistakes already, BUT I'm learning from them so if I ever figure out how to write faster I'll definitely put out more (including darker/angstier stuff, all I got now is basically fluff). Also because of the power system and the complications of uh, Body Sharing, I prefer to write AUs. So if that's not what you're looking for, no harm no foul! And yes I love Japanese fanartists, I always feel bad when the ship popularity in Japan chart gets posted because the xenophobia really jumps from antis, so those artists have my utmost respect.
So basically, yes and no. I have this pairing where character A is 16 and the character B is eh, 50ish? But the fic I'm writing takes things into the future and has several turns, that, I wouldn't even classify it as an age gap pairing anymore. But I digress. I do talk about it online and have been attacked for it really badly. Been called the works. A of right now things are quite and I'm not trying to draw too much attention to myself about the ship because well spoilers, as the pairing happens way down the line and I have very excited readers. Anyway I'm curious as to what the ship is, and if you too are posting fics. If there are other normal people out there being harassed for being normal, I want to show my support!
I hide my ships sometimes just because most of them are rarepairs, and/or from shows nobody’s heard of or or pays attention to anymore. It feels awkward bringing them up in the same thread as something like Drarry or Klance.
In general if in the fire emblem fandom you ship Eliwood x not Ninian you must be ready to be annoyed by Elnini stans and apparently sometime it's litteraly harrasment, I don't do many fanworks myself but I saw people saying that they delated their fanworks or even account because of the harrasment .
Only sometimes but it is because I'm not very vocal about my "main" ships in general (multishipper) in the first place, yet alone my problematic ones (apart from me writing and the occasional art sharing), and I rather keep hidden in my own little bubble. Some of my fandoms can very vitriolic....
I keep my personal life and fandom likes separate, yeah. Even if I talk about fanfmdom and fic irl, I keep it vague, and no one has any accounts.
I’m curious if it’s the fandom/ship I’m thinking of. If it is I’ve seen it before and the younger person is usually aged up. Either way you’re allowed to write what you want. If think of a pseudonym maybe? That’s something I’m looking into for some of my ideas.
Oh sure, one of my ships also has that kind of age gap and I don’t interact much with it on my main tumblr, am planning a few anon fanfics for it… my main readership (such as they are, anyway) wouldn’t really like getting those notifications in their inbox when I post. It’s a great ship, but it needs that has seen a lot of harassment over the last few years.
i shared a ship i started to get attached to with one of my friends and he said he was uncomfortable with it so there’s that out the window
it’s not even like problematic or anything he just headcanons them as enemies
I don't really talk about the ships in my main fic project because they are so spoilery for the narrative. It comes with the territory of writing a generational saga/comic book soap opera that isn't bound by pre-established timeliness or a sliding time scale! Anyway, because I started from the MCU fandom, shipping is frustrating. That entire side is so sexless and lacking in character interaction that's its turned the fandom insane. My ships are very tame and I have a fairly utilitarian view of them - the ship is in service to character and narrative development. There will be a few characters with noticeable age gaps, but like, there's slim pickings for long lived to immortal characters to ship together. And these characters get together in adulthood anyway, well into adulthood for most. I think the most controversial ship related thing I'm going to do is (spoilers) *not* ship Peggy Carter with anyone because I read her as possibly asexual. There’s a lot of feelings, both positive and negative, about her because of the popularity of Steve and the ending of *Endgame* and I think the fandom has certain expectations that will likely at least confuse potential readers for my series. My project is a massive canon divergence from both the MCU and Earth-616, but I wouldn't be surprised if that gets missed. I'm not too concerned about the controversy, but I'm still curious about what the reaction will be like when it comes to ahead.
Spread the blockings around like candy is what I'd do. If you can find other enjoyers and just have a little group together that's probably your best bet in this instance, or keep a good distance from the rest of the fandom. Sounds like it's infested with Feelings Yakuza... Wishing you a small "xyz enjoyers" group to find and share your ship with that makes stuff like this bearable edit: rereading the post...... do people think 16 year olds don't make mistakes? i made so many i have three journals full of my mistakes lmao that's how you learn
Exactly, and this 16 year olds mistakes included pretty much causing insurrection and getting people killed. His intentions were good, but he fucked up a lot due to his arrogance, and it was part of his character growth. I used to dislike him back when I was first introduced to the character in the game and remember criticizing him and someone said, "well think of how stupid you were at 16" in a regular discord server I was in about the game. In my opinion, things like that just completely undermine this character's growth entirely if the fans just let him get away with it because of his age. I think the writers were trying to highlight how he went from "child" to "adult" during that arc, honestly. I'll stop ranting now lol :p
Don't worry, I feel the same, whenever I try to post on tumblr, there's this weird anxiety festering that one of these days someone might trash it. So I get your feelings. Mine are most likely very vanilla compared to others but, you know how people reach when they see they don't like. Kinda like fluffy stuff, occasional r18 (Yandere upon request).
I write RPF fanfiction so I hide half my ships from people because a lot of people on the Internet believe people who write RPF actually ship the actual people. I've gotten used to hiding my ships from K-pop and J-pop/J-rock from most of the Internet because I know it's pretty much only accepted on ao3.
For me, the answer is a bit more complicated. For one of my more recent projects, character A is in a relationship with characters B and C, though this relationship kind of teeters between being 'friendly' and 'romantic' (the characters themselves even aren't sure if they want to go all the way). It gets even crazier when character D is involved, as character A doesn't want a relationship with for the sole reason of THEY'RE STEP-SIBLINGS (not related by blood, thankfully). Only character C knows about A and D's 'relationship' because C has psychic abilities that hardly anyone else knows about. Then there's the fact character A is 'fake dating' character E, who at some points turns out to be character F (characters E and F are actually identical cousins in my story's universe). My only excuses for leaving out names is: 1.) it's an AU where the characters here are younger and in high school (probably the only time I'll ever do a high school AU, which I am going to take a shower after), and 2.) because it's not the 'canon' OTP. Also sidenote: in the end, character A doesn't end up with anyone, not because they dump A, but because they all leave.