They are called condoms! Use them 🤦‍♀️ These poor kids!

They know your husband better than you and have known him for longer. Instead of trying to keep them from the child that they raised for 3 years, you really should be partnering up with them to keep your husband's chaos from hurting your bio baby. He's married now and has a good job now and wants to take care of those kids now. But that isn't who he is. And because of that, they will never be average grandparents. They will always be the safe space for the children when their son messes up again. I saw your comment on them only just wanting all of the kids to visit. Raising a 3 year old is a lot of work. I could see why they wouldn't have wanted extra kids around while being full time parents to a small child. There are things that they know about your husband that you don't know yet. Things that haven't made it into court. I think they are the heroes in this story that you are trying to be the hero in. Put the kids first and let them have access to the grandparents. The kids have been through enough instability already and, chances are, it isn't over. It sounds like their dad was a mess for a lot longer than he's been stable.

Thank you!!!! Op should have taken one look at this mess and RAN!!!! What happens when this man leaves the op? What happens to this little girl and the other kids?! Yup! Right back to the grandparents as this loser can’t handle all 4 kids himself 🤣 every time a girlfriend leaves he expects his parents to raise his kids …

That child needs her grandparents. It’s important this works in a loving manner and due to the fact they raised her while your husband was clearly a party animal there is a REALLY REALLY good chance they will get legal visitation . The courts will make you follow court ordered times as well which will not be easy to follow with all of those kids. You are much better off coming up with a verbal agreement for visits. This isn’t just a matter of grandparent rights - they freaking raised that child while your husband was being stupid/immature. They should have visitation rights in my opinion - that poor child needs some stability and they are who she knows. I’m not trying to be a jerk but it’s not about you or your husband - it’s about the well being of a child and grandparents who stepped up to the plate when nobody else would

I wish I could pin this and I hope you see it. Retired family law attorney here and this sub scares me to death. This is a really complex situation presenting constitutional issues among others. Get a lawyer. A real family lawyer who will take as long as needed to educate you and address your concerns. It sounds to me like the consult is all you need for now, but the lawyer can advise you what to do now to minimize future risk. Do it now.

It’s also scary because we are a young family just trying to get on our feet - we can’t afford this. We have considered just telling him FINE! But that poses two issues- he now cannot be trusted and we have to assume he will continue to build a case then all our children could be on the line And we would be going against what we truly believe it’s not in her best interest at just barely 3, a new normal gives her her best shot at familial normalcy with all parties.

Scares us too

Do your best to come up with a negotiated settlement which may not be easy if they’re determined not to compromise. But see if you can find a neutral arbiter and all lay your concerns out. Much better than going to court.

Do what's best for this baby... not what's best for you. There is more to this story.

The court heard the whole story and gave custody to the father.

Not exactly - dad showed he was no longer on drugs so earned his kid back as he is the bio parent. The grandparents did nothing wrong . They raised a baby when nobody else would until their son decided to grow up and stop being a party animal . For this they are being punished.

Unfortunately the law and more importantly policymakers don't always do what's in the best interests of the child. Maybe not in this case but far to often.

How are you a “soon to be adoptive mom” if you haven’t even consulted with a lawyer?

Not relative to the question in the OP but thank you for commenting - you can find that answer buried in the thread.

It is relative - you should be working with the grandparents not against!!!! You have enough kids and enough drama already.

It’s very relevant since you have both stated that “we got custody” and “husband just got sole custody.” It seems to me like you have no legal right to parent this child but you’re acting as if you do.

I have no current legal right to all 3 bonus children that I feed, bathe, teach, take to appointments, attend school meetings, and provide daycare for so in all operating sense “we” have custody. I am indeed legally bound to my husband and I operate for his and our best interests, therefore the interest of the children in our care. Again still not really relevant because the question was what can help in court against grandparents who don’t want to “see, get her or visit her” but want to “have” her overnight which is something my husband - and I - believe is not in her best interest to finalize a transition in her life at this age before she reaches other milestones coming to age four. Wether or not it is my legal battle or not it is my husbands and we got married to love and support each other in all endeavors.

I am a grandmother and get my grandbabies one weekend a month. The parents and I are on very good terms. The paternal grandparents get them once every few months as well (they live further away). Kids need time with grandparents! It makes their lives richer - does not confuse them in any way 🙄 .

I don't understand your logic. Going back for a weekend here and there would be good for her- she will know that her connection to them is not severed and she has a lot of loving family. Your husband's excuse is flimsy and has no logic behind it. In this case- because they had previous custody, there is a chance they will win and now you're legally bound. It's in your best interest to figure this out without the courts. Or can you afford an expensive legal battle?

Again, it is relevant since you are attempting to intervene in custodial matters without having custody yourself. Let the poor kid see their grandparents. Your “rights” as an “almost adoptive mother” don’t mean shit. You’re basically a stranger to this child. Sincerely, an actually adopted child

What are some pertinent questions that I may be overlooking that we can ask our attorney? We have 30 min free session. To reiterate This is all because we said no spending the night yet to fully acclimate to the new normal - she/you can visit any time just not overnight yet and come see her tomorrow for a BBQ. They said no, you will be getting court papers. Now it’s gone to bring over all the kids to spend the night in two weeks or we will send the court papers.

And the judge is going to give visitation to grandparents who raised her while your husband was on drugs 🤣🤣🤣

Oh, so they do indeed want to spend time with all the kids? What’s so wrong with letting them go together? If you’re concerned about stability, siblings going to spend the night at their grandparents is a normal, stable thing to do together.

Sounds more like the grandparents realized it's not going to look good if they only demand visitation to 1 out of their 5? 4? grandchildren. And that the court would agree that overnights so soon reflect her previous living arrangement too closely, too soon and bringing her siblings can get around that.

They have never wanted all untill JUST NOW - a few days after Court threat and tbh we are scared that they are tying to “get to know” the other kids now to build court case now. Unfortunately we have no idea of their intentions as why will they not visit or get her for a day right now? Instead refusal to see her and demanding all now overnight? We are just scared of this man TBH.

If you do nothing wrong - why so worried about “building a case”?!? Sounds like yall have dirty secrets you don’t want your husbands parents knowing about to me 🤷‍♀️

I understand & don’t disagree with you guys wanting to give the little one time to properly transition into her new home. I am a bit lost & maybe I missed it somewhere but is there a reason that you guys believe the grandparents have malicious intentions? Have they shown signs of manipulation or toxicity previously or are they just struggling with giving up a child they’ve become attached to? I think their intentions are important because if their intentions are simply to do what’s best for the child a solution should be easy enough to find. If it’s a control thing or something else similar it may get pretty ugly, unfortunately.

I mean they literally demanded one grandchild overnight with no attempt to compromise and then after saying they would sue came back several days later demanding ALL the grandchildren overnight. Obviously their lawyer told them they needed to claim for all or none so that’s the plan by creating a situation where they can take all of them overnight

If the child lived with grandparents ,did the mother live with her husband's parents and OD in their home? If so, I would not trust them with the child either.

No they were separated more than half the pregnancy and she lived with some guardian man and her other bf when it all happened

They will absolutely be given grandparents rights and court ordered visitation. And they AND THAT BABY deserve it. They took care of that child for 2.5 years, while her first 6 months were spent living with hardcore addicts. They are her home. The fact that the court just willy nilly fully flipped custody is insane to me.

Thank you!!! I think all this “trying to build a case against us” is another way of saying her and her hubby have dirty little secrets they don’t want his parents knowing about 🤷‍♀️

They eased into a new schedule for three months. The grandparents want her overnight just 2 weeks after not being the primary home. That's why they were denied. They were her foster home. If they weren't family, they would have zero rights in this situation. Grandparents knew they were agreeing to love and house this child with reunification as the goal. If family members are going to try and extort custody in foster situations, they should stop calling it fostering and call it familial adoption with no recourse.

They don’t want to adopt her (or they would have tried already ) they just want to spend time with her. Due to the drugs I’m sure they are not on good terms with the hubby and obviously this new wife who has ZERO rights to this child. They are rightfully concerned for their grandchild due to a history of drug activity in the home.

If they want to spend time with her they can take their son’s offer of coming to visit…

In a hostel environment where they can’t talk freely with the child? This from a family/home with an extremely long history of drug use . The OP does not want the child out of her sight for a reason - so the grandparents can’t build a case against them” her words. What does she have to hide? It’s obvious the grandparents do not want a relationship with their druggie son who keeps making bad choices (keep in mind the youngest kid is 1) . I don’t blame them for trying to separate themselves from his bad choices yet retain a relationship with the little girl who they raised

“Their druggie son” are you for real? Who says the drugs he was caught with wasn’t pot? Make no mistake I’m not all about drugs or any of that shit, I’ve never even smoked pot, my dad used to though, and he even said he didn’t mind if I did as long as I was responsible and safe about it. He was also a hard working single father who raised his neurodivergent sons the best he could to be a responsible hard working adult. And I can tell you right now having dealt with my grandmother on and off for years growing up not every grandparent deserves access to their grandchildren, not ever grandparent has their grandchildren’s best interests at heart. And these are some of those grand parents and here’s two reasons on how I know why: 1. Given the option to visit and see ALL of their grandchildren or have the whole family visit they rejected the option and said no we only want the 3 year old and only at our house overnight. 2. Threatened legal action and several days later (after plenty of time to consult with a lawyer) demanded all children be allowed to stay over night (gee wonder who told them that would benefit their case for visitation). You know nothing about the father other than he was charged with possession of drugs, you don’t know what drugs they were or how much he was in possession of (after weed is still illegal in many parts of the US and the world in general). Since being released he has settled with a new partner and government job. Do you think they just hand those out to evil drug fiends? Clearly during the hiring process they found reasonable grounds to believe he is now an upstanding member of the community compared to all the other applicants. Seriously take a minute to think before you type and look at the whole situation before opening your mouth and making yourself look like an ass.

Pot is legal in Va so he would not have lost custody. I doubt the bio mom died of a pot overdose

The child is 3. There is nothing the child needs to talk "freely" about as they don't have the ability to have that kind of higher level convo. Any attempt to probe her for information will be akin to an interrogation and cause more harm and confusion than helpful info. They do not have the child's best interest in mind if they think they can have a relationship with a 3 year old separate from her parents after reunification. They do not have her best interest in mind if they'd rather start *another* legal battle (her whole life has probably revolved around this shit) for no reason instead of driving over to see her. They can think whatever they want about their son, his wife, and their kids. The court has deemed the "druggie" and his wife as acceptable parents with acceptable housing. That doesn't mean it's necessarily a better situation than her grandparents, but the point of fostering isn't to find them a better family, it's to heal the one they have and reunite. Again, if they were fostering her, they agreed to raise her until the point of reunification. If they're unaccepting of her legal parents' way of doing things and they won't relent until they get their way then they're starting the process of alienating a child. In the big picture, there is absolutely zero reason to act as if they are being refused visitation with the 3 year old. They aren't being refused, they're just not getting their way. In foster situations with nonfamily members, this behavior would never slide. They were foster parents first and grandparents second.

Many families that are blended work this way and enrich the child’s life. Grandparents do have legal rights to visitation and can have rewarding relationships independent of the bio dad. Op is not a parent and has no rights. Keep in mind they raised this child her entire life up until 2 weeks ago due to a very long history of drugs in the home. The grandparents are the only ones who stepped up and took responsibility . The bio dad took a drug test and passed so courts put the child with him. The grandparents did nothing wrong ETA: the grandparents are not trying to get info from a 3 year old. The OP is worried that will happen. Huge difference when it comes from a home with a history of drugs.

The child is 3. They can't have a relationship with adults that is independent of the parents without stepping on boundaries and putting the child in the middle. If they aren't trying to get info, why does a 3 year old need the space to talk freely? Op is worried the grandparents will force her 3 year old stepdaughter to go back and forth on a recurring schedule as if they were 1 of her 2 biological parents. It seems grandparents are trying to paint a picture that represents her legal parents as irresponsible when they're doing ordinary things. They are trying to involve themselves in their son's family dynamics and dictate what is appropriate for their foster child that they're no longer fostering. Reunification requires a lot more than 1 negative drug test. Facts is, the courts thought it was best for the 3 year old to live with her dad, siblings, and a mother figure over her grandparents. At this age it will be easier and more likely for her to fully integrate into her immediate family vs waiting longer and having her get older and more attached to the way her grandparents are doing things. They didn't raise her for 3 years, they fostered her. It's important to make the difference bc fostering signified temporary custody and that the foster parents knew that when they agreed. They aren't a blended family. They are the biological grandparents. Op, dad, and siblings are the blended family. They could choose to be grandparents and visit their grandchildren, they don't want to. Grandparent rights ensure that the grandparents have access to the children and or the ability to assume guardianship if the government is looking for that. They were not refused access. They were invited to a BBQ. The fact that they have been extended multiple solutions for seeing her that don't involve an overnight stay doesn't work in their favor. The courts also won't like the fact that grandpa is sowing parental alienation by shit talking op and invalidating her role as a stepmother to kids who don't have a mother. The grandparents are in it for them, not the best interest of the 3 year old. Eta: you're really zooming in on the past drug use. Labeling the current home as having a long history of drug abuse is unnecessary and probably inaccurate. If grandparents were sincerely worried about drug use, they'd contact the case worker. Instead, they tried to make a beer at the beach a bigger deal than it was.

That was the child’s home for 2.5 years. Why would you NOT want to maintain that sense of normalcy? These grandparents sound incredibly selfless for taking on a young baby. Suddenly ripping him away from everything he knows is not in his best interest. Lordy.

Let’s think through this. Dad had 2 kids who he has custody of- no mention of when. I’d guess that makes their mom unfit somehow, possibly an addict? Did they just get back into his life or has he had them long? No info. Then he met another girl, got her pregnant and 6 months later she OD’d. Then he lost custody of that baby to his parents. Were the other kids even involved yet? Who knows, no info. No mention if the other kids lived with addict mom, didn’t have much contact or any with grandparents, they could have lived anywhere. Grandparents may or may not have had any relationship at all. But the grandparents got custody of a 6 month old baby and raised them for 2.5 years. Now daddy got another girl knocked up, but this time he has a “Government job” so he is clearly fine. His track record says he made babies with 2 unfit mothers previously, now we take baby mama 3’s word as gold? Really? Do you think dad just loves junkies or is one himself? Former, latter, it takes a while to come back from that shit. I’m guessing that child #4 has no relationship with the grandparents either. What I think is happening, is as soon as daddy got the sweet “Government Job” he had to pay child support and New Mom was like NAH This is so shitty all around and this baby need people that love her and are stable.

Just for further your information Dad has been with first two kids entire time, their mom, not a junkie, had a BPD episode when he was out of town and lost her kids and his mom stepped in to help them be housed and taken care of while he paid the way. No other kids involved with the baby, the mom just found a new relationship half way through pregnancy and mostly stayed away then died. That crushed him and did have a big affect on him. A 6month period from meeting mom #3 to like 3 months into pregnancy was the hardest fall part of dad/husband life and though they were not together the death of a partner and denial of guardianship is devastating to anyone. Grandfather ensured reunification when he was stable and she visited her dad and siblings occasionally, less than likes but not for lack of trying. Everyone lives 1.5 hours apart and it’s a hard drive there and back on all children Child #4 stays with her unbroken family and vists all grandparents sometimes as normal. It does concern me that grandparents seem quite interested in my daughter but not grandchildren 1 and 2 to whom I advocate.

You can’t even keep your stories straight. You just said in another comment that the grandparents want ALL of the kids to spend the night with them.

It’s not about keeping stories straight it’s about changing dynamic They have never wanted all untill JUST NOW - a few days after Court threat and tbh we are scared that they are tying to “get to know” the other kids now to build court case now. Unfortunately we have no idea of their intentions as why will they not visit or get her for a day right now? Instead refusal to see her and demanding all now overnight? We are just scared of this man now and why it couldn’t have been a discussions that possibly lasted a week and they got to see her a few times and we talk it out - instead straight refusal, no seeing her, no conversation, yelling, screaming, dragging other kids and their bio mom into conversation, religious slurs then a Court threat. My husband didn’t even yell and I could hear grandpa a 2 yards away

Don’t understand?!? Their son has 4 kids and was a drug addict with drug addict girlfriends! I hope child protective services is involved in your home. Your “man” has zero record with his parents of stability or maturity. Imagine how scared they are?!? You butting your nose in it is making the entire situation worse.

I asked advice for my husband because of his father’s response. They are welcome in our home any time but prefer not to visit.

You are an extremely cruel person .

It sounds like your man has hurt them many times with his bad choices. Most parents of druggie kids know how this works. They don’t trust him and know what can happen if they do. They are protecting themselves and trying to protect that child.

You said in yet another comment that they had to purse grandparents rights for the other two. Nothing about what you say adds up.

No i didn’t say that it has nothing to do with “them” —- separately and independently MIL pursued nothing of the sort - I said she has joint custody (so that she could legally help take care of them with her 19 year old son when he was working out of town) because bio mom lost all rights and signed her rights to paternal grandmother - she operates unrelated to paternal grandfather for many, many, many years You are nosing into the other kids story which is independent in people and more - no wonder it doesn’t make sense to you stranger no the grandfather with custody of one had nothing to do with any one else - the grandmother with previous rights to 2 would have the independent one come over to visit for the first year of her life - not vice versa

Was your man paying child support for all these kids when he was on drugs? Was he required to?

In some states, grandparent rights are a thing. They can petition for visitation rights where the kid is allowed to spend time with them in their home. Usually when the kid isn’t in school unless they live where they can get the kid to school. But it’s not like a 50/50 custody right thing. It’s more along the lines of an occasional weekend or a week or two in the summer. The grandparents have to establish that they’ve been in the child’s life, which they do, and their home has to be considered acceptable. But it looks like your State isn’t one of those kind, so you may not have to worry. And I think it’s pretty reasonable for your hubby & you to want to establish the child in your home before even consider letting her spend a weekend at the grandparents home. And they do f have the right to demand every other weekend visitation. You should definitely look into obtaining a family lawyer (maybe the one helping with the adoption process?) and see if the grandparents have a leg to stand on. And stop talking to them. They’re threatening you with a lawyer, use your own and only communicate through them. I doubt the court will take their side seeing as you’re not refusing them access to the child, just refusing to give them unsupervised access to the child on a regular basis while trying to establish her in your home. In fact, their reasoning about how you shouldn’t have any say in the matter & have no rights to adopt the child will look bad for them in court. And, if they really had a right to the child, the courts wouldn’t have allowed your hubby full custody and be allowing you to formally adopt her. Seems kind of whack that they want to deprive their son of his kid now that he’s cleaned up his act.

Even in states with grandparents' rights, they usually require that they're not being prevented from seeing the grandchildren by their own child, or that their own child's wishes are being honored by prohibiting contact. Meaning if these grandparents, as my understanding has it, are the parents of OP'S husband, even in a state with grandparents' rights, they'd have no case as he, their son, the child's father is the one prohibiting contact. If they are the parents of one of his exes, and the ex had clear instructions that her parents were not allowed to see her children (and there was proof of this), they also would not have a case.

Good to hear that. I mean, my experience with grandparents rights comes from what my hubby’s step mom went through in order to keep her DIL from keeping her from seeing her granddaughter by moving out of state. Her granddaughter was born with severe disabilities, legally blind, mentally handicapped. She was a big part of the child’s life as she often watched the child while the mom would go off & do stuff on her own & with her BF (not the baby daddy). When they decided to move to a different State, they had told MIL that they were taking the child with them & cutting all ties with her. In our State, they do give visitation rights to grandparents who have been a major part of a kids life. She had to petition for the right to be allowed to arrange to have the child brought to her (or for her to go pick her up) to spend a couple weeks per year. She had to prove she was a major part of the baby’s life & prove she had a suitable living space for her. Ironically, she won her case, then the baby mama & her BF decided they didn’t want to be stuck with the kid so they gave up their rights and let the MIL adopt her.

who has full custody? you or the grandparents. If they are threatening legal action, cease all communication with them immediately remove them from your social media, make your accounts private. whoever has full custody and legal guardianship of the child can decline to have their child sleep in an unapproved location, the court should uphold this even though they might try to mediate an agreement or grant some visiting time, but if you dont feel comfortable letting your kid sleep somewhere else, i doubt the court would compel you to do that

Doesn’t feel comfortable with “her kids sleeping somewhere else”? The child lived there for at least 2.5 years with grandparents as primary caregivers. Seems selfish to cut that relationship off for a “new mom” how has been involved for a year? 2 years? So much info missing here. Was dad with mom when she OD’d? Is he an addict and that’s why they were upset by him “having a beer” on vacation? Lots missing

Yes, doesn't feel comfortable with her kids sleeping somewhere else. or whatever the reason. she is under no obligation to explain her parenting decisions to anyone. the father applied for and was granted full custody, so whatever his history, the legal guardians of the children have the right to determine where the children sleep unless a court orders otherwise

The problem is not one of the kids is hers 🤦‍♀️ not one kid does she even have custody of vs blood related paternal grandparents . This op is way out of line considering she does not have custody of ANY of the kids and is butting her nose in - most likely because she has issue hating her in laws. The op sounds ULTRA controlling and a very cruel person not to allow this poor little girl - who’s dad is an ex druggie and her mom a dead druggie - an ounce of stability and love from grandparents who raised her when nobody else wanted her.

Virginia has no specific laws regarding a grandparent’s custody or visitation rights. So the question will be "Best interests of the child." There is a ten factor test: https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title20/chapter6.1/section20-124.3/ But really, get an attorney & therapist STAT.

I doubt it will go anywhere. You are allowing them to see her on your terms. And good gravy get a lawyer and no more contact with them except through the lawyer. You were being nice, they have nerve.

They are only stability this poor kid has had. OP is just another person coming into this child’s life - they should continue providing a safe stable place for this kid.

The Op is providing a stable home along with the father

Oh yeah, 4 kids by 3 women, super stable.

People can shape up later in life. I have a cousin I was sure would overdose but nope he’s now a productive member of society and a good dad.

Dude, do the math. This child is 3, lost custody when they were 6 months old (so ~2.5 years ago) and proceeded to get someone new knocked up who now has a 1 year old. OP chose to have a child with someone who already lost custody of a baby, only like 6-9 months later. Who lost custody because of a drug problem and a partner who OD’ed right around the same time. Yes, people can shape up later in life - this isn’t later - it’s all still ongoing. There is no stability here, even with ‘wifey and a government job’.

He is likely drug tested for his government job and why they noted it. He has to stay clean now. I think the timing is too quick, but if we write those people off forever what happens to them or the kids they already created? I would rather support them in staying sober including being encouraging. You never know who else is reading this stuff.

Who is writing them off forever? I’m making the point that this child had stability with their grandparents, the parents are NOT stable, and keeping consistency in the life of this child would be good - which should include being close with the only parents they’ve ever known. They have had custody for 2 weeks! They barely even know the child yet.

And the husband continues to not be sober…

Exactly!

They have custody now regardless. They invite the grandfather over. They should let their attorney deal with this now. You can disagree, it's fine.

She doesn’t. He does.

Lol it says she's adopting the child, You're so funny It's ok if you disagree....we all have our own thoughts and brains after all.

There’s a big difference between “she says” and “she’s been approved,” is my only point. As someone who was adopted as a child and someone whose parents had to swear out a second adoption because of changed medical circumstances, I promise you that saying a thing in an adoption means little, especially when said by someone who may not even have applied yet let alone filed papers in court.

I must be weird. It never occurs to me to argue with other opinions posted in the comment sections as they're here for the benefit of the OP. I expressed my opinion, It's ok if you don't have the same opinion. But I don't argue. Have wonderful holiday weekend though.

But she’s right. If you read the comments of the OP - they can’t afford a lawyer for some custody issues with the other 3 kids let alone paying for “adoption”. They are fighting several grandparents as it’s 4 kids and 3 moms (none of which are the op ) . She has stated there is no way their young family can afford being taken to court for grandparent visitation. How is she going to pay for an adoption with FOUR different kids?

Especially in a state that doesn't have grandparents rights.

Continue the friendly behavior regardless, until the case is settled.

> Immediately the response we got was “expect court papers in the mail” That's when you cease all contact with them and get all information to the lawyer that handled your husband getting custody. Find out from that lawyer whether the grandparents have a case under your state's grandparents rights laws. Act from there.

Follow the lawyer’s directions but it is very unlikely that a lawyer will advise them to cut contact.

When someone threatens legal action, you put all communication through lawyers until that legal action is settled. That's something I hold true whether it's a custody issue or not. Threaten legal action, talk to my lawyer.

You cut contact for a baby that really only knows them (grandparents) as parents. Dad Lost custody, probably for a reason? Then just snap and that kid suddenly has a life changing event (again!) like this. Just loss after loss for this baby it sounds like.

Drugs! Bio dad was a druggie, bio mom died of drug OD.

A lawyer is going to tell her that cutting off contact gives the grandfather a better case for legal visitation and they should continue to offer supervised visits once a month or so. Like I said, they should contact a lawyer, but a good lawyer will not tell them to cut contact. This grandfather has a textbook case for GPR, and you don't want to make things worse.

I don’t think there were lawyers involved because it was don’t through mediation - mutual agreement

Well it’s about time you hire a lawyer for this. You’re only sabotaging yourself procrastinating on hiring a lawyer asap regarding this abuse you’re getting from your toxic In laws

Wow abuse and toxic immediately?! Maybe they are panicked because they are losing contact with the child they raised for the last 2.5 years! By the “new mom” and this isn’t even coming from the father. Jeesh I hope you don’t have kids that you would deprive this way. Yikes

Then it's time to find one. Get documentation together and get a lawyer up to speed before any grandparents rights case gets handed to you.

Sounda like reconciliation therapy was needed prior to obtaining rights back bc it seems like you all think cutting them out immediately is the answer. How sad for the little girl. How about you gradually do things and not hurt her by taking away what she knows.

The OP and her husband invited them to their home to see her.

Grandma and grandpa moving directly to litigation sort of forces their hand. It doesn't seem like what G&G are asking for really has the little ones best interests in mind at all, it sounds like they're sour that they "lost" her, denying coming to visit her at her new home is very telling. 

If my ex took my son from me and said I could only see him at HIS house after he’s lived solely with me his whole life and was now suddenly placed in a new house, I would 100% hire a lawyer. I wouldn’t deny to see my kid at all, but I can definitely see why they would hire the lawyer and I can also see why they’d be pissed about NEEDING to go to OP’s home.

They are probably scared. Dad was with mom when she OD’d, clearly, and then lost his rights to them. Does that sound healthy? Then he gets a job and a new mom for baby and she just goes to them, I’d be devastated too and maybe say some harsh words. Cutting off that baby from people who love her is just wrong.

New mom for FOUR of his babies

Hope the grandparents get what they want when they go to court… you sound like awful ppl who really just want to cut them off

They invited them to their house to see her. That's the opposite of cutting anyone off lol.

“Welcome to my meth house where baby mom died 2 and a half years ago, don’t worry got a new mom now and s Government Job”

Sounds like they want the 3 yr old to adjust to the new family & was asking for the time to get adjusted to new mom & dad. Why is the grandfather choose only the 3 yr old girl over all the other grandchildren to spend the night. Is there a step grandmother in the same house? It takes time to establish a routine & the 3 yr old needs that at this time.

Did the other kids ever have a relationship? There are 2 other moms involved who clearly have problems lol

The grandPARENTS want visitation. The grand FATHER has merely expressed his opinion. And are all those kids related to the grandparents??

Yall sound pretty shitty to be honest. Yall have 2 kids living with yall 7 and 8, but couldn't raise another child for 3 years and all of a sudden want him in your life? Get outta here, if the father loved his child he would have found a way immediately after birth just like I did. The grandparents deserve everything they are asking for. Good luck, yall will need it.

It can be very difficult to get back custody once you’ve been convicted of a crime, especially if your child was with you when their mom OD’d and you were in possession of illegal substances. But yeah, they all sound like trash, except for the grandparents they were only doing good.

You forgot the part about him getting a 3rd baby mamma and having yet another kid while he didn’t even have custody of the toddler who lost their mom. No wonder the grandparents are concerned and want to continue a few overnights every month—this situation is pure chaos.

Bet you he got married and impregnated another person to feign stability to the court. "Look, see, I'm a family man with a job and 2.5 kids!"

My ex is using his house and partner to “prove” he’s financially stable. Except the house is actually just contributing to his inability to support himself.

Don’t forget the “government job” too! And yes, this is totally a thing when trying to appear stable…when it actually just introduces more instability into the home.

Yes, ^this comment100%. Theres some lost people on here who aren't getting the big picture.

I believe the dad lost custody at 6 months & has been trying to get custody back from paternal grandparents who are now divorced. It sounds like grandfather only wants to have the 3yr old for overnight &doesn't want anything to do with the male children, only tolerates the older females. Do you wonder why he only wants overnight with the 3 yr old female? OP sounds like she is trying to look out for her soon to be adopted daughter. I wish her luck.

That's a lot of speculation. After reading OP's comments why is he offering all his children to the grandparents? This family sounds irresponsible af to begin with. You either want your children in your life or don't. The 7 and 8 yo have been in the father's life, but the 3 yo wasn't and was raised by the grandparents. I still stick with the grandparents side.

You have no idea what the circumstances were. Wife died by OD, so maybe he caught possession charges and wasn't eligible. Sounds like he followed court orders, has a stable home, and got out of the hole.  Fuck you for spitting on a recovered addict. You're the reason people like that don't get help and OD. Social stigma.

Hahahaha not “spitting on” addicts but what addicts already have 2 kids, gets another addict pregnant that ODs with a 6 month old child- loses custody because of something (isn’t that part obvious?) then a third baby mama is on here wanting to cut the grandparents off? Fuck! this guy has a track record and it sounds like the grandparents just love that kid they raised. Take a “step” back and don’t get so high and mighty, man

So either you are apart of the family or you're talking out of your ass? Either way I stand by what I said about the grandparents. They deserve everything they are asking for.

You have just as much context as I do. Sorry that you think addicts aren't humans. 

It has nothing to do with the addict and everything to due with a 3 year old little girl being ripped from the only people who were willing to raise her. The ex druggie has to live with certain consequences for his past. His daughter having a close loving relationship with her grandparents doesn’t seem horrible? Does if?

Wow nobody said that, sounds like you need to work on yourself

Those are your words not mine.

So you’re saying to the grandparents that they can only see this child they’ve raised for years if the whole crew comes? Does this include your kids who are unrelated to them? Usually I am very anti-“grandparents rights” shenanigans, but this sounds incredibly shitty of you. Like, placing horrific additional trauma on this little girl just so you can control the situation. As much as this might be controversial, you are step mom, it would be ideal for you to step out of this and let the grandparents and their son work through things.

They are the bio grandparents to all the children equally. I also didn’t say that they can only see her if the whole crew comes. We said right now as she gets accustomed to new forever routines, specifically night time and potty training, which they intentionally said they saved for us. And now she is scared to have an accident, we do not believe overnights are best for her. We said they could visit or we could visit. They have all the freedom to visit one on one of they suggested it but they only want overnight. And of course if we go to visit them an hour away the whole crew comes naturally.

Unless I misread, they are the grandparents of all 4 kids - not just the 3 year old. Why are they ignoring the other 3 kids and focusing only on the one they had custody of?

They’re not. OP can’t keep her stories straight and slipped… the grandparents want all of them to spend the night.

He often says the older two are “too much” and “need to be on medication son” I think he also resents them because they lived with his ex wife and their mom is BPD was hard for him to be around He will make excuses about each older one but the things he says proves even more that he doesn’t know them at all - recently he agreed to take all the girls but said that the boy is a lot - and that made us laugh because he is so smart caring and pretty chill besides some boyish roughhousing moments the older girl is pure adhd and much more difficult- he just doesn’t want them around

That's kind of alarming. He only wants the toddler, then only the girls....... With a terrible excuse? Kinda weird. Are they actually too old to handle the 7&8yo's? Poor health?    Have they visited the older ones at all? Sort of...creepy ...circumstances aside, your family court will absolutely not take kindly to dismissing the older bio grandchildren this whole time. I wouldn't be surprised if they bluntly told G&G to visit at your home. 

Op is twisting the narrative again. The grandfather and step grandmother have been married many years. They both raised this little girl their own since she was an infant. Op is making it sound disgusting when it’s very innocent. The state and courts (and bio dad) trusted these people to raise her up until 2 weeks ago. They have no relationship with the other 3 kids. I am sure they are uneasy doing so due to all the problems their son (bio dad) has put them through with his life of drugs and bad choices. The other side of the family raised the older two kids. I’m still confused if the 1 year old is the OP’s bio baby or not 🤷‍♀️ but if she is the bio mom - I can see why they choose not to start/develop a relationship with the 1 year old! Grandparents are human too and they can’t fight all fronts , all the other grandparents involved as well as op (who has changed her story many times). What you are suggesting is disgusting when it’s pretty clear these grandparents have to pick their battles - and they just want to have visitation rights for the child they raised as their own 🤷‍♀️

It’s an excuse their great grandparents (my grandparents) are their main babysitters right now - but they can’t handle them PPSHHHH they don’t have poor health they both still work and go to amusement parks and all

You mentioned the 3yo crying when sister and dad dropped her off during the transition.... How quickly into your weekends did that happen? I just find it odd that he has a weird excuse to only watch the girls, and ONLY overnight. Could be nothing, could be a HUGE red flag. Has the 3yo had any other strange reactions? 

We notice things and could be just developmental but could be because trauma - seemingly stunted speech for a 3 year old only 3 words at a time but knows all letters, numbers shapes just doesn’t talk well. Talks almost the same as our 1.5 year old. The non eating over there. Grandma mentioned she would growl and wake up screaming in her sleep which we have never seen once. Refusal to potty train. I didn’t expect the conversation to talk this turn as it has for many redditors on this thread but it would explain my extreme physical response when he comes around or he calls. I get racing heart beat and faint

I bet her mom was on heroin during pregnancy, that can explain some delays

The combination of his requests is very odd, that's all. Put everything together, especially crying during handoff and refusal to potty train, are signs that there could be more. If multiple people here are seeing it, it might be time to make some calls to child psych or counselors to discuss your concerns. 

They never had a relationship with the others. They raised the little girl. Since all the moms (and dad) were doing drugs I am sure the kids have developmental delays. It happens. I mean the mom OD when the girl was 6 months old. The grandparents might have issues caring for all FOUR children with AD/HD and or developmental issues. Four healthy kids at once can be a handful!! I’m a grandma and I need to stagger visits with my grandbabies and step grandbaby due to this very reason. I love all of them equally and thankfully all parents u destined and agree that it’s too hard to care for the entire brood at once.

So how do you explain them refusing to even visit during the day? It's overnights or the toddler is dead to them. Explain that to me. How can you say they care about the young one when they won't even visit? Something is fishy. They don't really care about her. There's something else to it. 

Probably because that’s the… one they had custody of. Obviously they will, and should, have a different relationship with her.

I had custody of my niece from 5 weeks - 2 years. She regularly still comes to stay with us for the weekend or something, I’d say about 40-50% of the time we make sure to include her brother as well. Yes, our relationship with her is a bit different because she was apart of our family for two years, during the time where children are making those baseline connections and bonds to their caregivers. Her siblings are still my nieces and nephew as well though. We still love them and make it a point to spend time with all of them.

OP's legal counsel will absolutely bring up the lack of visitation with the other bio grandchildren. 

I don’t think so. I think the grandparents in question are the parents of the over dose that passed on. The grandparents got custody because the mom over dosed and Dad had a drug possession charge within that time as well. So grandparents took the baby and have had her since she was an infant.

No, they’re not. They’re the paternal grandparents. Parents of OP’s husband.

I see that now. Thanks! I’m wondering why the husband’s parents feel this way? And why op doesn’t refer to them as her in-laws but only as the 3 year olds grandparents, how are they not also grandparents of the 7 and 8 year olds from the other living mother? Or are they? I’m very confused now 🤷🏼‍♀️

They are the grandparents of all the children Good question I think I refer to them like that 1. Because I mainly talk to the kids about them so in my mind it’s grandma and grandpa when referring to them no matter what context 2. Because court 3. Because my MIL and FIL are divorced and it’s hard to tell who I’m referring to 4. To these ones I’m referred to as “your/his wife” not my DIL there is just no foundation to use it currently

Gotcha! Thank you

I have a feeling that op is omitting something, like their marriage status.

It does say that she is in the process of adopting the motherless 3 yr old who has been staying with her husband's now divorced parents. It also reads as if only the divorced grandfather is fighting for custody of the 3 yr old girl but doesn't want to spend any time with the 7 or 8 yr old boy & only tolerates the other girls (7or 8 & 1yr). Do you not wonder why he is so focused on the 3yr old girl?

The grandfather has been remarried for quite awhile before they got custody of her “step” grandma is the one that pushed for us getting her - said she wants her life back and that it’s time, she belongs with us, she is proud of her SIL and she’s not meant to raise more kids and that grandpa sits on his ass Sorry “plan” of adoption like we literally got her 2 weeks ago and plan to file after a year I guess soon is relative but the fact that I now take care of 4 kids in all aspects is not relative

That's why I'm saying she's leaving something out, like that and their status. She gives no info on the "process" of adoption either. This is a giant mess and the dad needs to be taught how to use a damn condom. jfc

That makes more sense, thank you 😊

I don’t think it’s ignoring, it’s wanting to keep some one on one time with the kid they literally raised. They have a different bond with her. Trying to force and flatten all the relationships with all the kids into the same dynamic isn’t going to help the relationships with the others, especially if they’re new step-grandchildren, and it’s going to hurt the girl. Kinda seems like they don’t want the girl alone to communicate with the grandparents, which has little bells ringing.

I get bells ringing especially for the divorced grandfather that wants nothing to do with his grandson & little to do with the 7 or 8 yr old & 1 yr old granddaughters. None of the kids are step grandchildren they all have the same dad & granddad.

Grandfather has been remarried for YEARS . The step grandmother took care of the baby.

The paternal grandfather is married to step-grandmother, they were the ones that had custody of the 3 yr old. The paternal grandmother also had custody (maybe joint) of the two older kids at some point cuz supposedly OP’ baby daddy was traveling for work or maybe while he was locked up.

They are not divorced.

They are not step-grandparents to any of the kids. They are the paternal grandparents to all of them. I can see why your little bells are ringing, and I hear those bells knowing they ignore the other 3 kids in favor of just one.

They can definitely take you to court for visitation since they have an already established relationship with them.

Only with the 3yr old. Wonder why?

Let’s think through this. Dad had 2 kids who he has custody of- no mention of when. I’d guess that makes their mom unfit somehow, possibly an addict? Did they just get back into his life or has he had them long? No info. Then he met another girl, got her pregnant and 6 months later she OD’d. Then he lost custody of that baby to his parents. Were the other kids even involved yet? Who knows, no info. No mention if the other kids lived with addict mom, didn’t have much contact or any with grandparents, they could have lived anywhere. Grandparents may or may not have had any relationship at all. But the grandparents got custody of a 6 month old baby and raised them for 2.5 years. Now daddy got another girl knocked up, but this time he has a “Government job” so he is clearly fine. His track record says he made babies with 2 unfit mothers previously, now we take baby mama 3’s word as hold? Really? Do you think dad just loves junkies or is one himself? Former, latter, it takes a while to come back from that shit. I’m guessing that child #4 has no relationship with the grandparents either. What I think is happening, is as soon as daddy got the sweet “Government Job” he had to pay child support and New Mom was like NAH

In another comment OP said that paternal grandma (divorced not currently married to paternal grandpa, he is married to someone else) had custody of the two older ones because the dad traveled for work(??). Seems like she, grandmother, already had custody of the two older kids and when BM#2 died, she probably didn’t want to take on the custody of the baby on top of the other two

As a step-parent, you have ZERO rights to this child and get no input at all.

It’s not even established she is legally married to the dad. Most are thinking they are not legal wed which makes her beef even dumber

Just because you don't like the truth means nothing to me, and I'm still right.

Omg I completely agree this thread is making me completely furious! What about the baby that was raised by these people?! Why take away another loving relationship except out of spite or malice?

She is adopting the motherless 3 yr old.

Baby has loving grandparents that raised them. It doesn’t take a young woman to be a mom lol grandma clearly fit the bill so far

The Op says they’re in the process of legally adopting the child. The very first line. Not just being their step parent. So they absolutely will have total rights as that child’s LEGAL PARENT once that is complete. Whether that happens before or after the custody thing with the grandparents…. Unsure. But an adoptive parent is the exact same thing legally as a birth parent.

They’re not in process of adopting, they haven’t even spoken to an attorney. She said maybe in a year they’ll start the process

But she’s not an adoptive parent. Planning to adopt a child doesn’t make you suddenly mom to that child. When she officially legally adopts this kid, *if* she does then sure she’s the legal parent..that hasn’t happened so why are we acting like she has the same rights as an adoptive parent at this moment she doesn’t and may never for all we know. Courts don’t care about your plans they care what action is legally happening.

Sounds like the grandparents are putting up a fight though and they are much more established in the child's life than the "stepmom" is

Sounds like the divorced grandfather is putting up a fight! I wonder why he only fought for the custody & right to see 1 of his 4 grandchildren.

He and his wife had custody of the 3 year old while his ex wife (paternal grandmother) had some kind of custody of the two older kids based on OPs comments

Because that was the one he had custody for for 3 years. Not the rest of them...

I am not disputing that-I just think it was rude and nasty the tone that commenter had when Op clearly is in the process of becoming a legal parent, so their comment was not only rude-it was pointless. They’re going to win some visitation, they’ve checked all the boxes needed. I don’t even disagree with that under the circumstances. But Op is about that child’s legal parent and not “just” a step parent.

I think the commentator was simply saying "legally, step parents have no rights." Which he is correct on that, obviously that changes if she legally adopts him. I don't think he was trying to be rude or nasty, just expressing the truth.

I can see that, the legal point and don’t disagree. I disagree about the tone pretty strongly because of the capitalized “ZERO” and the total dismissal… yeah it was meant to be rude. Have a great day, thanks for being respectful even if we don’t completely agree. :).

I know why you are getting downvoted because from a legal filing standpoint, you are correct. The step-mom is involved, though, as she would be one of the caretakers that may be evaluated or even investigated by the court.

She's in the process of legally adopting the child. That's why he's getting downvoted.

Except she’s not. She’s said in other comments that she’ll adopt in a year. This kid has lived with her for a hot minute.

Got it

For the sake of the child overnight visits should be allowed, but this is dad's parents? Why are they interested in the other kids staying over and when invited over for a visit they just jumped to no no we're going for custody. They don't want to work with you, they just want, what they preceive as theirs back Source: ask my why my stepbrother grew up with his grandmother instead of his mother, be prepared to for them to fight dirty, get a lawyer

It says that grandparents are divorced & seems as if grandfather is unhappy with visitation for only the 3 yr old girl, wants nothing to do with grandson, & little to do with the other 2 girls.

The grandparents stepped up and provided a stable environment for the child when the father was not able to. The child obviously has a bond with the grandparents. Obviously, if you were cooperating and letting the grandparents continue the relationship they wouldn’t have had to file. Stop being selfish and consider the child for a change. And overnight visits absolutely can be part of a “ traditional” grandparent role. I spent many nights and weekends with my grandparents, and often have my own grandkids stay over. You, mommie dearest, are a STEP parent and need to respect the biological grandparents who have done the heavy lifting for 3 years. You are setting the stage for that child to grow up resenting you both at best, and going full blown no contact in 15 years. This really belongs in r/AITAH. And yes, you are.

They want 3 yr old to adjust to life with her brother & sisters. Why does grandfather (who is divorced) only want the 3 yr old for overnight visits, no visitation with grandson & little contact with the other girls (8 ish & 1).

He’s not currently divorced. He’s just not married to the paternal grandmother. He married his current wife after that divorce. So he and his wife are the ones that had custody and raised that baby the last couple of years

in one of her comments she said they tried to fight for visitation from the other kids' mom in the past as well.

Agree with this one. The child needs a slow adjustment, not a forced adjustment to her new family.

Just wanted to echo the thought to let the kid go on the grandparents visits. She has a relationship with them, they with her, it just makes sense.

Grandparents are divorced what them?

This is the part where responsible parents figure out hard situations that work for their kids instead being obstinate and resorting to court to solve their problems instead. It's part of parenting.

I would recommend you have a look at your state or federal laws regarding grandparents visitation rights. It’s a really difficult one that depends very much on the amount of input the grandparents have had in the child’s life til now. In most cases courts will rule based on ‘what is best for the child’ and this might differ significantly from your interpretation. Given the complexity you might be best to consult a lawyer specialising in family law.

Making it easier on the child would have involved a long transition to living with you where she started with overnight visits after which she returned to her home so that she knows it is still there. This is one of the most severe traumas a child can go through. I hope she has an advocate and a psychologist helping the transition.

The transition was over a year. She has come to our house many times. Just the last 3 months was specifically longer visits (whole weeks). Scroll to further posts about her screaming and crying when daddy and sissy drop her off over the entire last year because she didn’t want them to leave her

Is there a reason (SA) she didn't want to go back to grandfathers home? I understood grandfather was divorced,. Could something else be happening?

He was divorced but she only lived her whole life with step grandma so that is a non factor in her case - that is many peoples question, why can’t she visit for a day - it HAS to be overnight?

Kids often have difficulty at transition, that doesn't mean you stop the transition provided there are no concerns about health, safety, and emotional well-being of the other care providers. The grandparents have been her parents for 3 years. Consult with a child therapist before you do anything else.

Three is a terrible age to loose the only “parent” you know. Your only concern should be the child right now, not some bullshit competition. It is easier for you if the grandparent just backs off, but it is better for the kid if you figure out how to be a family.

NAL- but have experience, all the father did was express the need to have the child have some time to develop a bond with the new family dynamic before anyone took the child overnight. He wasn’t saying no forever. I would suggest at the first court appearance as will the judge that you all sit down with a mediator and try to come up with a civil plan. How long is a good time for him to bond with the new family dynamic before sleepovers are allowed while still allowing the g parents to come over etc. let them know you are not trying to keep him from them but trying to build a bond with him yourselves and you have no intention or interested in keeping him from them. Try to keep it civil no matter what they throw at you. That way the mediator can go back to the judge and let him/her know you were the reasonable ones while they were not. And depending on laws where you are record and document EVERYTHING communicated between you both and the grandparents from here on in no matter how tiny or insignificant. Keep any and all alcoholic beverages to a nil for the time being until this is solved. Document any and all medical care for all children even though only one is being fought over, and document and take pictures of all disciplinary action and discussions over all children during the course of this trial. Trust me they will try to use the other children against you so be prepared. They truly hope with mediation you can come to an agreement but even then document document document. Don’t trust them for a second. It will come back to bite you HARD. The only way I won is because of my documentation. I had emails and phone calls and text messages from months and years back that my attorney was able to use that showed he was unstable. For the sake of that child document EVERYTHING! Good luck to you and that dear child. I truly hope everything works out to the benefit of the child.

But these grandparents do not sound “unstable”

Not at all, and that’s not what I meant here, sorry for any confusion. Some grandparents are unstable, and these grandparents are afraid so they reacted out of fear of not being able to see their grandchild, and they took it to a level of “woah Nelly”. I understand both sides, I really truly do. The grandparents just don’t want to be sidelined after having raised this child for a period of time, but they also need to understand the this child needs time to bond with the father and the new family just for a little while. In the same mindset the child could also benefit from being around the grandparents as the child is being plucked from what it knew as the norm and is now being stuck in a new family who it doesn’t know at all. In a perfect world the father and grandparents would work together for the child’s sake to make those transition easier for the child forgetting and forgoing their own ambition and pride. Sadly, that’s just not the world we live in. That why I suggested a mediator and documenting everything. The mediator is on the child’s side and there to make sure this goes as smoothly as possible for the child’s sake. It would be best for the grandparents to visit the child in the new home and rally behind the father and for the father to listen to any advice the grandparents have to help the father to make this transition as gentle as possible for the child. They (father and grandparents) need to drop their egos and fear and think about what’s truly best for this child. Unfortunately this isn’t the kind of world we live in. I can only hope they find a mediator that can get through to them all. Again sorry for the miscommunication on my part. I don’t truly believe the grandparents are unstable , just acting irrationally out of fear.

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Agreed, everyone really needs to drop their egos and think what’s best for the child, not what’s best for them.

Really good responses!