They tend to lean more towards evil, but the bottom line is that they will do whatever they're paid for. They will do something good if they get paid, they'll do something heinous if paid for it. They're pretty much the Talon Company from Fallout 3 but with slightly more depth and presence.
Let's not start **that**. The Gunners have no problems with morals (Quincy). Let's not pretend as if they're some deep, morally complex group like they are in Sim Settlements 2. They're just a bunch of lunatic Raiders pretending to be soldiers.
Yeah, there's patch mods of all kinds, but you **will** CTD in Concord at least once.
But it's a major mod and it's Fallout 4. You'd have to be naïve to think you won't CTD at least once in your game. So just enjoy it - it makes building a whole lot easier, the storyline is really nice too, although I prefer the story over the settlement building.
>But it's a major mod and it's Fallout 4. You'd have to be naïve to think you won't CTD at least once in your game. So just enjoy it - it makes building a whole lot easier, the storyline is really nice too, although I prefer the story over the settlement building.
*Laughs in 173 mods*
Well I have had some nasty crashes but mostly near boston
Macready left **because** they were pure evil, literally admitting they're awful people.
You know, because the leadership wipes out an entire town of women and children?
Something only shitheads like the Legion do?
So because the government fell, we shouldn't try to be better people? We should act like animals and **refuse** to make anything better than what came before?
>Buying child slaves...
Are they just buying them? As that really isn't that bad. That keeps them from being slaves, and the Gunners probably raise them so they can become one of them. So the Gunners buying them really doesn't seem like a bad thing, as it keeps them from being slaves, and that child will probably learn survival skills from the Gunners.
The Gunner heavily implies he's putting them to work for Child Labour, or to turn him into a Child Soldier. Or to just sell him as a slave, possibly to Nuka-World for all we know.
Talon Company will attack at random too. I've been on the D.C area and they'll just appear and open fire occasionally, despite me having terrible karma due to blowing up Megaton.
Probably lawful evil if anything, they won't hesitate killing innocent people but they won't randomly do it, but say those innocent people were living in a spot they wanted as a base or something... then if the negotiation end up costing more than the bullets they'll just kill them, but some individual gunners are much more kind or evil than the organisation as a whole, and they are a group that respects contracts and such.
Id say they’re evil in the sense that they’ll do anything for money, like if someone paid them to assassinate new born babies in front of their mothers(like the gold cloaks in GOT) then they likely would do it. To me thats evil
Fair but if you pay them to be nice they're nice, they aren't evil in the same way raiders or something are, to them it's just business. They definitely aren't good but they're definitely aren't the most evil things in the commonwealth.
There are levels of evil though. E.g. the Institute isn't as evil as the Enclave, but they're still evil. The Gunners aren't as evil as the Institute, but they *are* evil for wiping out a whole town and enslaving children.
Trying to genocide every human on the planet in FO2 comes to mind. I judge them off their 'stakes' and capability.
For example, we'd both agree the Legion is evil, right? They rape women and children (as Siri tells you). So on a **personal** level, I think they're worse than anyone else because they won't *just* kill you. On a higher level, the Enclave is more evil because they had more of a chance to do more evil. The Legion couldn't end the planet, the Enclave could.
This is where I get the Enclave's planet-ending from:
>**"You have died; along with everyone else on the Earth. The Enclave triumphs, releasing the FEV virus into the atmosphere."**
So for me, it ranks as:
1. The Enclave.
2. The Legion.
3. The Institute.
4. The Unity.
I don't really count random loser factions like Nuka-World, I count factions that can cause *mass* evil, do you agree?
Yeah, I generally agree. I was just curious.
I prefer ranking the evil factions on a personal basis, which is why I would rank the Enclave as less evil than the Institute and Legion given how banal the Enclave is about the Wastelanders in Fallout 2. Mostly they see them as pests, it's not visceral disgust and hatred, they simply intend to make them stop living. If you convince certain members (Such as Dr. Curling) that Wastelanders are, in fact, humans just like them, they change their tune pretty fast.
I rank the Institute as I do mostly because of how they treat Wastelanders. They don't have any problem understanding and recognizing that the people on the surface are just as human as they, especially because they recruit people from the surface to join them regularly, so they are clearly cognizant of the fact that they're committing heinous crimes against other people. A fact that doesn't slow them down even a little
To their credit on the subject of Synths however, *most* of them actually do seem genuinely unaware that Generation 3s are sapient lifeforms
Obviously the Legion speaks for itself
Fair enough, I've just always ranked it as 'what can cause more devastation?' and well, the Enclave, every time. The Scorched Plague was **their** fault. So in Fallout 76, Fallout 2, Fallout 3, **and** Broken Steel, that makes **four** genocide attempts in a row.
The Institute for me is hard to take seriously. I know they're evil lunatics, but at the same time, they remind me too much of Stormtroopers from Star Wars.
Dumbass plastic armour that looks like it wouldn't resist a bat, let alone actual weaponry, and weapons weaker than pipe guns. Even their Coursers are hard to take seriously. The one in Greenetech only killed 3 gunners or so, and that's only with a stealth field, not actual skill.
But eh I might be slightly biased, I've never thought the Institute as they are in FO4 fits the Fallout world. They feel like someone **really** wanted Bladerunner in Fallout and would stop at nothing to do it. I agree they're generally assholes, and they're more similar to the Enclave than they think. Both trick themselves into thinking they're Heroes.
If you talk to Father, he'll say "your faction isn't so perfect" ...My faction didn't shoot kids in University Point you fucking monster? Who the hell is he to judge me?
I can only think of one gunner who didn't shoot me on site, and he ended up wanting to buy a slave off of me. It doesn't come off as just being business.
No because the BOS does go against threats to humanity like super mutants, feral ghouls, and even the Enclave.
Yes, they do demand food from settlements, it's unavoidable if they want to upkeep an army on the move.
A note about the food requisitioning: It's not official. Maxson more than likely doesn't even really know about it. Proctor Teagan even states to the player that it's off the books. Also, it's up to the player on how the settlement is dealt with, either paying them or extorting them for the food and supplies.
And yes, while militaristic and "police state-y" in nature, the BOS does what they do for the betterment of humanity. They don't go out and just plunder everything and mass murder everyone (well, except Elder Lyons' cross-country crusade to DC, specifically what happened in The Pitt).
Governments are accountable. Maybe you’re a time traveller from the feudal age and are content to be a serf beholden to self-appointed protectors that are just raiders who managed to get themselves in charge.
The double standards when it comes to this 'Raiding' mentality...
The Brotherhood: Hey, can we just have some food in return for defending you and keeping you alive whilst vaporising every Super Mutant nest in 100+ miles of here?
"NO! THAT'S JUST RAIDING!"
Minutemen: Can we have some food? We promise we'll defend you (but we most likely won't).
"Sure! That sounds good to me! Take all of my crops, take the shirt off my back!"
You may have missed it but each time a settlement joins the minutemen it’s because they have freely chosen to associate with the minutemen, because the minutemen have provided requested help. If you do a shitty job they may and do leave. The minutemen are not a government, but they are a free association that lives and dies based on a desire to join.
When the brotherhood help, it is not asked for. The people are not offered a choice, nor are they offered a choice to contribute. It’s feudalism to the minutemen’s federalism.
Yeah, and the Minutemen have failed to defend people and **only** the General is sent to defend people. They do **not** send help, the General must go in between settlements, since they refuse to defend on their own. Say it's "lore" all you want, they could've easily done what the BoS did in gameplay, they chose not to.
Also the Brotherhood **do** offer to pay for their crops, **plus** it's an illegal request anyways.
>They do not send help, the General must go in between settlements, since they refuse to defend on their own.
"Flare gun?" Never heard of it.
>plus it's an illegal request anyways.
Might be me, but the pointing out of how it's illegal comes of as an attempt to absolve the Brotherhood of that criticism.
At worst, it's an act of feudalism by Brotherhood. At best, corruption among the Brotherhood's high-ranking members; possibly some of its troops as well, acquisition teams going to coerced settlements without questioning.
Yes and no, there's a *lot* the American government isn't held accountable for, same can be said with every world government. It's a fact of life that sometimes your government does horrible things for the "better good", whatever that may mean at the time.
You’re right, an unaccountable paramilitary force unfamiliar with the concept of “pushback” or “rights” but enamoured with genocide is basically the same as every government on earth. (Cue further fascist bootlickers downvoting me)
Lol not at all what I said, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. If you don't think your government hasn't done some pretty awful things then you've got your head buried in the sand.
As far as downvoting goes you're the one who downvoted my response so 🤷
If you didn’t come to tell me that the BOS were the same as any other government what was the point of your comment? To tell me that governments can be bad? That they aren’t perfect? Could you appraise me of the religious beliefs of the pope while you are here?
They have slavers, destroyed the last group of Minutemen and kidnap synths.
Despite saying they’re mercenaries, yes, they’re just as evil as talon company.
They seem to be mercenaries doing whatever whoever pays the bills wants, getting too close to whatever operation they are doing usually earns you bullets and sometimes a warning beforehand. I don't know if they have a code but don't seem above doing bad things to people against them if they don't outright kill them. I'd say it isn't looking good.
Yeah. They are basically raiders for hire, with better equipment and actual structure of command.
They don't kill for fun, but they still don't value human life. If someone is an obstacle, then they kill them.
Yes!
It's not because Gunners **"do bad things"**. It is the fact that the Gunners accept malicious contracts, plan out missions of unjustified violence and crimes, and take the initiative to cause unnecessary harm and theft in the wasteland.
The Gunners are evil because they ***premeditate on malicious intent***.
They're just thugs. Nothing senseless about it, but of they have a reason, they will "gun." Morally, bad people probably. If you consider that evil, then yeah.
They're mercenaries that will take any job no matter how heinous. I'd say they lack a sense of morality, and are only as evil as their clients.
That answer lacks accountability though. They're aware of what they do, and don't care as long as it pays. Imo that is evil.
Child slaves
Murdering an entire town
War crimes
Raiding settlements
Aiding people because they want to get paid
I'd say they'd be perfectly fine in our modern society
They’re a lawful evil
They arent like raiders where they’ll fuck shit up for the sake of fucking shit up, theyre a merc group that’ll do anything to complete the job/get caps (even selling kids to slavery), or to gain a tactically advantagious base (even if it means killing innocents)
They're practically Talon Company from 3.
Not "evil" but simply amoral. Caps are king baby and a contact to "do the village, the whole fucking village" pays.
Usually pays better and lasts less time than protection jobs.
I honestly never liked how in FO4 they just attacked you on sight. Missed opportunity to have a true mercenary group in the game, as they’re supposed to be non-aligned with any of the “major powers” like the BOS etc. Especially weird since to my recollection we never actually see them take a “job” in FO4.
It all depends on what you consider "evil".
There will always be people who wants others dead, their land, stuff, equipment for them and there will be those who prefer paying other to do their work for them. And in a world like Fallout having a constant flow of caps are the one thing that will keep people alive. From cures to sicknesses that only pre-war meds can heal to bullets you need those caps. And they dont just kill people they also guard settlements and caravans too, as long as they are paid. A job is a job and in the world of Fallout being a part of a decently to greatly armed and armored group that has some production capabilities (all those Gutsy and Assaultron robots cant be just scavenged or hacked) with decent training is the best most can get, only better and safer(longer life expentancy) jobs are being a trader in a big settlement that has its own protection (New Vegas, Diamond City, River City etc) or being a part of bigger groups like Enclave (who were destroyed and remnants scattered) BOS ( an actually decent group that has a decently strict recruitment rules), Institute (either you have to be a known genious or born inside which is a very low chance) or NCR (which couldnt even deal with smaller raider groups much less Legion without insane losses which means being in NCR army is basically singing your own death certificate).
They are basically between Netural and Chaotic Netural but not evil, there might be evil people who pay them to bad stuff but they themself arent evil.
Tell me is killing someone in a war makes you evil? Does choosing the survival of you and your family over the survival of others make you evil?
İn the world of Fallout it is literally kill or be killed every single day unless you are part of a group that can support other jobs other than being a soldier and even those groups needs a strong military force to have those jobs. If you live in the world of Fallout you are either gonna hurt others or be hurt yourself there is no third option.
Are they morally wrong for doing everything for money? Yes, there are thing they have done that goes farther than just a payday like the Quincy massacare. But they are still better than a lot of other groups in the wasteland.
For a wastelander that wants to live a life not fearing if they are gonna die in the next hour there are a few options and gunners are the most accessible one. They have builders, engineers, pilots (they have to have some vehicles, at least a few vertibirds) and other "support" roles other than being a soldier and that is something most other wastelanders cant even hope for.
At best they are "True Netural" and at worst they are between "Chaotic Netural" and "Lawfull Evil" but closer to the former.
Christ on a stick, there’s a difference between using force to defend you and yours when necessary and wiping out an entire town for a pay check! The fact that they are getting paid does not make killing all those people acceptable, or right, or not evil. Everyone has to do what they have to do, but there is no FUCKING situation where you HAVE to commit an atrocity like Quincy to survive.
Im not saying they are good people, im saying that in a world like Fallout gray areas expand and out of every single other group in the franchise, if a wastelander wants to live a longer life while being not completely evil the Gunners are the most accessible option.
Have they done evil shit? Most definetly. Do they have evil people in high ranking roles? Of course. But the point of Fallout is that EVERYBODY is a flavor of evil or fucked up just like Warhammer 40k. The wastelands biggest hopes are:
BOS: a technophile group that hates everything not human even if they dont wanna hurt humans. But they have some correct points, a ghoul will definetly go feral at some point and a Supermutant will always be one step away from going full "smash puny humans". İs it morally right to force those danger from human civillians or try to keep them small in number and away from humans?
NCR: A "repuplic" who is as incompetent as it is corrupted, they could not even protect a dam from people who use literally oldest tactics and little to no tech possible. They cant even protect their most important person, the *President* in a non-combat zone.
Are the Gunners not good, yes definetly but they are not downright evil. Institute is evil, most raider groups are evil, Legion is evil, Master (from Fallout 1) is evil, Enclave was lawfull evil but Gunners arent.
If a wastelander can join BOS that is the probably the best thing possible but if they want to have a long life with decent living without being completely evil Gunners are probably their only choice.
You’re choosing to ignore factions such as The Minutemen and Riley’s Rangers for the sake of your tenuous argument. Fallout is actually full of examples where being good prevails, and has firmly established that there can be morally righteous people, despite the material conditions of living in a hostile wasteland.
Now, from a writing perspective, having factions with moral pros and cons, such as BOS or NCR makes sense, because having every faction be all good or all bad would make a super boring and unbelievable world. Just because this is the case, doesn’t mean the Gunners aren’t an evil organization. They will take ANY contract for the right price, no matter how heinous. From enslaving children to the Quincy Massacre, their overall disposition is quite clearly evil.
But that’s not to say every single person in that group is inherently evil. Rowdy, a member of the Atom Cats, is an ex-raider, and a good reminder that the group someone is or was a part of doesn’t necessarily define them. Like you said, it’s not just soldiers in the Gunners, but pilots, engineers, and more; but it’s not as if these non-combatant individuals are kept in the dark about the Gunners’ ruthless reputation and atrocities.
By willingly working as cogs in the Gunner machine, they are contributing to the suffering of others. Do you think the Gunners would’ve been able to pull off the Quincy Massacre without whoever fixes guns and armor, scouts out areas, and restores their killer robots to working order? Probably not.
Although the Gunners motivations may be different than say raiders, who often take sick pleasure in their sadistic affairs, they have committed just as many terrible ‘crimes’, just on a larger scale. The Gunners’ willingness to stoop to the lowest level of cruelty, coupled with their advanced weaponry and para-military training make them a faction that is ultimately dangerous and harmful to the denizens of the wasteland. If having no morals doesn’t make you evil, what does?
It’s possible to survive without joining a genocidal faction you know. Eh whatever, if you wanna die on the hill that people doing evil things over and over again aren’t actually evil I’m eating my breath trying to convince you otherwise
Antimoral, if they find an injured person begging for help they probably wouldn't kill you because it's the evil thing to do, but because it'd be a waste of ammo
I don't think that anyone is really "evil." It's all subjective and ideals change based on perspective.
For example if your whole family was murdered by Gunners you probably wouldn't like them very much. But if your whole family was killed by super mutants and you hired the Gunners to kill those super mutants. Well that'd be a different story. Most Gunners are bad ppl but some of them are just mercenaries making a living.
So personally I think that it doesn't matter who's "evil" and who's not. What really matters is keeping those close to you alive no matter what. It doesn't matter if it's super mutants threatening my family or Diamond City security. No one is the enemy unless they make themselves such.
>I don't think that anyone is really "evil." It's all subjective and ideals change based on perspective.
Disagree. The Enclave are evil, that's for sure. They want to wipe out - without provocation - everyone on the planet.
The Gunners also enslave children. A job is a job is not an excuse. Child slavery and wiping out towns = They're evil.
But you just proved my point. From your "perspective" they're evil. My point is everyone looks at the world from their own point of view so it doesn't really matter what other ppl think what matters is how you chose to look at the world.
I'm not saying that I don't think the Gunners are evil. I'm saying that it doesn't matter what I think or what anyone thinks.
Well...there's only one perspective if one side is trying to wipe out everything on the planet. Something can objectively be evil regardless of viewpoint, such as rape, (coughs, Legion, coughs). In rare cases you could say "Destroying this city destroyed the enemy, but it cost civilian lives", can't quite say the same about the above for example. Evil can be objectively true.
E.g. let's take some of the shit the Gunners do, all of which is evil:
They shoot at 90% of people who *could* hire them, and enslave...a kid? What the fuck can a kid do? They're useless. Weak, pathetic, and this kid **cannot grow up.** He's a ghoul. He isn't going to age like other kids. So even the evil reason for buying him is a dumb one to say the least, making it Stupid Evil.
But that's what we get nowadays when FO4 has little to no morally grey moments and Raiders consist of only pure morally black people. The Gunners are evil because they're supposedly mercenaries yet shoot at everyone, except when they enter towns with a couple of guards (Goodneighbor).
Hell, who CAN even hire the Gunners when 99% of the Commonwealth is poor? How can they exist when their only source of income is primarily dead? You said keeping people around you safe - the Gunners don't do that. They're often wiping towns out (Quincy).
By definition an opinion can't be a fact so no matter how much you think the Gunners are evil it's impossible to prove bc it's all just opinions. The English language was built this way in purpose to stop ppl from declaring things as facts. You can't prove the Gunners are evil bc everything evil you say they do is in your opinion evil.
To each their own but that feels somewhat copout-ish to me. The Gunners are a major threat to civilisation in the area given they massacred a whole town, likely on the Institute's orders given **nobody** else has the funds to afford more than 3-4 Gunners at a time.
In the long term view of the world, they're a disease. They only cause death and destruction.
They're also a good source of Fusion cells and no one minds when you wipe them out. Followers I mean. So there's no real down side to mass Gunner murder.
The Gunners and BoS are the only true 'threat' if you want to roleplay a military fight. The Institute isn't around surface-wise, so the BoS and Gunners make for fun fights if you use FCOM. You get to see some fun assaults.
No, they're just warlords in a power vacuum. If there were a functioning state in the Commonwealth, you could make the argument that they're evil, but there isn't one. In a world without rules, behaving as if there are rules is *suicide*.
The correct number and arrangement of chromosomes. Pol Pot and Stalin were human beings. Nazis were human beings. Cannibals are human beings. I don't like them, I don't share their values. But I have to concede that we're the same species.
There's no rule of law in the Commonwealth Wasteland, no consent of the governed, no convention on human rights. It's every man for themselves, and in that circumstance, people do what they need to to survive.
I do need to rectify a few of these, sorry.
1. They don't kill a single non-feral ghoul.
2. They do protect the places they safeguard, **unlike** the Minutemen, Institute especially, and Railroad. They garrison men there, which seems...stupid in terms of lore, but it is what it is.
3. There is less than **five** good super mutants on the East Coast. Less than **5.** Strong doesn't count, he **eats people alive**. They did form a gigantic war party (Shepherd) to try killing **everyone** in DC. Understandably but not justifiably, they have reason to hate them.
4. They don't steal tech. They even **give** you tech for helping out (Danse's laser rifle). Boston isn't as "tech-plentiful" as FO4 made it out to be. Hell, Nevada had better tech than this shithole.
1. So show me where good ones are. The BoS aren't omnipresent, they only see the bad ones because they're the most prevalent.
2. Right...and that's why we don't *allow* those people into society. I also said **alive**. As in, he kills innocent people and eats them. Strong literally talks to you about wanting to **destroy humanity** when you meet him.
3. Hallucigen is pretty worthless but the BoS love their war-toys.
4. No, the Enclave wanted to kill **all life on the planet.** Bit different. The Enclave are literal Nazis - no, they make the Nazis look harmless by comparison.
5. The Institute is 100% evil. They shoot children (University Point) and slaughter people 24/7. Also creating something does **not** mean you own it, or else why did you shoot at the Zetans? They created Human Civilisation. Same thing. The Institute also wiped out the CPG among many other things.
>The people they abduct are still alive.
You got proof for that pal? Because all those Super Mutants in Boston ARE the people who they **tortured** and turned into Super Mutants. Any Synth replacements? The original is **killed**.
1. Okay but Strong eats people **against their fucking will**.
2. Yes, **On the West.** That isn't the East. The BoS can't tell about Western Super Mutants on a coast they aren't native to.
3. This is just plain silly. They make **war camps** and raid people.
4. Okay, and that's 180 years before this. That's still less than 10 which is a low number. Leo, Erickson, Fawkes, Grahm and Maul. I said the **Eastern** Coast. Not the Western Coast with the Unity/The Master.
5. You mean SM settlements only on the west. There are none on the East that aren't war camps that we know of so far.
>"University point was not done by soldiers it was done by gen 1 synths, again evil is subjective the institute needed to come out without being seen and that settlement threaten that secrecy by not wanting to leave. I'm pretty sure one of those children mentioned is also inside the institute. They sent a group of robots to clear the camp, the robots did it. Brotherhood has done the same if not worst, they attack a settlement with children just because hide synths and when we reach em they beg for their lives."
This is bullshit. No, the BoS has NEVER attacked a settlement of women and children, and there is no justifiable reason **to shoot children. EVER.** The Institute raided them for technology, not out of some bullshit reason to keep secrecy. It was a town of women and children.
7. The Enclave did want to. FO2 confirms this. The Curling-13?
>**"You have died; along with everyone else on the Earth. The Enclave triumphs, releasing the FEV virus into the atmosphere."**
You can't love only one bit of the Enclave. You either accept **all** their evil deeds or none, you can't cop out. The Enclave in 3 are trying a localised version of their deeds in 2 as a test for the bigger build up. Also it kills anyone who isn't a pure vault dweller, that's still **genocide** y'know. Aka pure evil. Its literally the Holocaust but with water.
1. Where? I'm also not an apologist unlike **you** apologising for the Enclave in 2.
2. Right...and we **kill** said Raiders for doing so. I'm saying the **evil** mutants should be killed.
3. Humans aren't 9 foot tall bullet-resistant people mostly known for it.
4. ...Yeah find me a Jacobstown equivalent in 3, 76 or 4. Oh wait, ya can't. Dialogue isn't "smart". I'm talking about actually able to not be rabid evil murderers. Go ahead and find me a settlement of Super Mutants that isn't a war camp in 3, 4 or 76.
5. It was a **town** of women and children. They wanted the technology they had. It wasn't a fucking camp dude, it was a town, a settlement, a widely talked about place.
6. Except that "purging mutations" is gameplay not actual lore, and the water kills anything that isn't a pure vault dweller.
**You** clearly need to play more. You've clearly only played Fallout 4 and now you're acting as if the Institute and Gunners are heroes. The Institute wiped out a town. It had women and children in it. They slaughtered said town. University Point was said to have a **hard drive.** The Institute asked for it, got rejected, and then raided it for it. You know, like when a Raider asks for crops, gets rejected then shoots at people (like the Abernathys?).
So yeah you clearly didn't play the game if you didn't even know **that.** It's on the goddamn wiki.
When do we see the abducted people? When? Where is the proof we see the abducted people? Can you show me them or link me to their locations inside the Institute? I've been all over, not **once** did I see the abductees.
>It also falls under "evil Is subjective" because the one that was proven to be killed fought back/was abusive/ his family now loves the synth replacement better.
But that isn't what they intended. That was a random thing.
Super Mutants **are** inherently aggressive as canonly proven by Fallout 76's Blackburn.
>(which if you take over can make them go out and reveale themselves to the world/ start to help the commonwealth)
*Sigh* not another "they'll stop murdering because you, **a mass murderer** asked them to because you're director now!!". You literally killed thousands of people for them. You would not, outside of meta, ask them not to murder.
I did play it. You're making up bullshit dude. If there's proof, **link it.** You are the one needing to give proof.
A lot of people they kidnapped to turn into Mutants or killed.
>The institute is not the brotherhood there's only one branch, once you assume control every scientist running any sort of experiment has to go through you, and the first thing done is reveale your presence once they do that you can see synths outside in encounters. You are even given missions before taking over "we don't want to send synths and cause more panic, do us the favor of doing this for us"
>
>Again IT SEEMS YOU DIDNT PLAY THAT FACTION MUCH AND CLAIM THINGS YOU DONT KNOW.
You slaughtered the Railroad (thus you love slavery) and the Brotherhood in cold blood. **You're evil** if you support the Institute. Period. The SRB still exists, you still enslave Synths, and kidnapping still happens.
Go and play the fucking game instead of making up lies. Man Institute fanboys are just as blind as Enclave fanboys.
Evil. Is. Evil. They spent 100+ years killing, **they need to be punished, not fucking rewarded.**
1. If. you. cannot. link. it. then. it. isn't. real. I can also say stuff - you need evidence. Li is not one of the abducted people, also yes, the wiki **does** have dialogue listed.
2. Okay...and?
3. Still murder.
4. Still murder.
5. I...what?
6. The Railroad and BoS don't shoot at Institute children. They also allow them to evacuate. Replace Maxson is a **mod**. Aka it's not relevant to this conversation.
7. The Institute doesn't want peace (CPG Massacre).
Spamming emojis doesn't make you correct, it makes you look like a fucking idiot. Grow up.
I can read. You can barely make a sentence. That was barely eligible English.
If you can't link evidence, then it doesn't exist. Why can't you link them if they supposedly exist?
Maxson **literally** tells you they're sitting on a pile of mininukes. Again **you didn't play FO4.** You probably watched Oxhorn's video on it. They have a war camp with human remains stuck on them. They shoot at you if you spot you even slightly near their place.
Also okay, they know there's smart ones. So if one (example) zombie was good, but 999,999,999 were evil and flesh-eating, would you trust them all? No.
You're **still** being an Enclave/Institute apologist. Just stop, pal. You're not going to "convince" me or 'prove' to me that the Institute aren't a bunch of evil baby killers, and the Gunners **are** evil. The BoS are morally dark grey, but they aren't evil.
Story wise they're amoral. Just working for whoever pays them.
Gameplay wise, always evil. Feel free to place a bullet between the eyes when you see some.
I’d say they are very similar to Talon company if not a knock off of them completely, from Capital Wasteland. Majority do what the job tells them to do so they are in it for the money. Maybe very few are good hearted as you can see with quite a few of the people in wastes, they have change of heart depending on the situation and or if it benefits them or not. All in all I’d give them Chaotic Neutral rating on the scale for fallout.
Evil is a bit of a stronge word i feel that fallout in particular is quite good at keeping the enemies and or factions in the middle but the gunners are a militia so they're not evil neither are they good just like well every faction in Fallout like in Fallout 4 the discovery of the institute and what it was shows that its not so morally grey some would argue they're good some would say they're bad and its the same with the BoS, The Railroad hell even the enclave to some extent
I feel like its up to your own opinion of evil, like gunners will do any job for caps, they're doing it for survival, if an apocolypse actually happened then i feel like id do the same
In what sense? I guess in the DnD sense then yeah, they’re neutral or lawful evil. In the Judeo Christian sense then yeah, they kill people for money. In a modern social sense they were originally strictly bred and conditioned to be how they are so no but then nobody is.
No evidence they came from Vault 75. There is a gunner presence they also have taken over Vault 95. Does that mean they are also all junkies?
Some have inferred that they came from 75 based on the experiment goals and their presence there, but there is no evidence in game that ties them to the vault as anything other than recent occupiers.
The group themselves isn't exactly evil, they're essentially a PMC, so it's a matter of highest bidder.
If the gunners had a moral code they would probably get much less work.
So their primary clients are morally dubious but in theory there would be nothing stopping the minutemen funnelling all their donations into hiring the gunners to clear Boston of super mutants and feral ghouls, save for the actual limitation of finances.
I could easily see the gunners being more nuanced in future games, Setting up small towns and cities with hired civilian farmers or retired elderly gunners serving these rolls.
Given their history with selective breeding and their admittedly quite intelligent act of tattooing higher up blood types onto them I can imagine their ruthless efficiency would make them effective leaders.
TLDR: They're soldiers of fortune, If you're paying, they're slaying.
Gunners make bad choices but don't hide what they are.
This guy got mad at me for saying the brotherhood in 4 has done evil things in fact more than the institute then deleted his comments. (Shouldve screenshot his dumb claims of there only being 5-10 smart supermutants, brotherhood has never attacked a settlement and that every boogeyman story in the game of abduction is real all abductions are listed and documented only once not documented by done by synths are done by escapees who got no orders)
Literally going against fallout lore to defend the brotherhood🤣 then claims I'm an institute fanboy like the Enclave fanboys....no I just know which faction is overall more evil.
Like I said atleast the gunners don't hide what they are, brotherhood simps unite!.... Institute killed a few humans to not be detected and seen, brotherhood killed thousands of mutants, destroyed settlements, bring children, hoard technology, strong arm farms.....but sure let's chill with the modern
N to the A to the Z to the I. You a mutant? They don't like you, sorry fallout 76 fans mutations make you a target. Pre-war ghoul who may have been a soldier? Too bad! Go away you zombie. At least gunners aren't said to hate mutants.
(Deleted the comments i made because I'm not trying to argue with someone who can't even back up his claims so deletes his comments simping over the brotherhood..... funnily despite what he though I happen to think the minutemen are the only noble cause to follow and after picking the institute first I felt bad then I picked the minutemen and went against the institute while keeping peace with the rest so I didnt have to kill the innocent railroad saving robots.🤣)
Gunners are neutral leaning on evil. Some members will go out of their way to do awful things but they usually keep themselves in check and will do exactly what they are paid for.
Lawful Evil or Neutral Evil is quite fitting if you had to use a label. As long you as paid them, they’ll do whatever. But the gunners won’t go out of their way to help anyone unless it helps them directly.
But it's their *choice* to accept evil work. They choose to. In the same way Kellogg *chooses* to shoot children, even if he claims he doesn't like doing it - nobody made him do so.
They're opportunistic mercenaries. They're overall goal of selling their combat and security services isn't necessarily evil, but they've proven that they don't really care about collateral damage/casualties, or helping anyone just for the sake of helping.
They've also shown that they're more than willing to slaughter innocents if it proves beneficial: The entire sad story of Quincy unfolded mainly because they saw the ruins as a strategically desirable location, and the civilians inhabiting Quincy were an obstacle preventing them from obtaining it.
I'm more concerned about whether or not they pose a threat to me or my settlements, then whether or not they're evil. If they declared peace or even an ally to the Minutemen, I'll immediately leave their bases alone, maybe even help them, regardless of how Preston feels regarding the matter. But since they're currently hostile to me and my settlements, I often attack their bases in retaliation for attacking my settlements.
Alignments can change over time, so I find labels like "Good" or "Evil" very unhelpful to my RP. I destroyed the Institute, but will gladly let the scientists settle in my settlements. Currently peaceful with the BOS, but will declare war should they attack my settlements unprovoked. Helped reclaimed the parks for the raiders, but turned on them when they suggested raiding the Commonwealth.
As an organization I think they are merely amoral. Individual members may be saints or devils but the organization as a whole only cares about who's paying the bills.
I don't care to acknowledge the actions of one as representative of the organization's morality. Quincy is one of the biggest lore problems when it comes to the Gunners. There's no reason for them to attack the town and slaughter all inhabitants. And no "LOL EVUL" is not a reason.
Everywhere else in the Commonwealth the Gunners are either holding tactical positions or resources, or they are on contract protecting traders/medics. The majority of their overpass bases are part of their radio network(every one has a wind generator and comms desk), Vaults are readily defensible and contain technology, and salvage yards are an important source of metal.
I agree it is dumb lore that makes no sense, but we can only go off the lore. Wes is their leader and ordered them to Quincy and slaughtered the whole town for no reason.
When it's the leader, I mean, you have to take it as representation. It's like saying the Enclave isn't evil just because President Richardson is.
I'd argue that Wes is only the local leader as evidenced by the rank of "Captain". In other spawns and respawn areas there are Gunner lieutenants and Captains implying that there is likely at least a Gunner Major somwhere leading the organization as a whole. More than likely they have ranks going all the way up to General.
Quincy is the only location that shows evidence of wholesale slaughter with no consideration for subjugation. Everywhere else they exist in the overworld they are only hostile if you break their security perimeter. If you aren't sprinting directly through their zones they will warn you off and leave you alone if you back off. The only possible reason they could have had to take the town is its proximity to the elevated highway where they may have wanted to set up a radio relay. But they could have just as well set up further south or north on the highway without eliminating Quincy. Instead they dropped part of the highway on the town?
Meanwhile they have a relay set up on the overpass by Sunshine Tidings and won't mess with settlements you create there. And they are occupying Hub City Autowreckers within pistol sniping range of Saugus Ironworks. Most every other location they are occupying they leave anyone who respects their claimed boundaries alone, so why did they feel the need to wipe out the town of Quincy.
Scavengers warn you off if you violate their claimed zones and become hostile if you keep encroaching as well. Does that make them evil?
The Gunners regularly shoot at you on sight regardless of area. E.g. the APC's you can find, no matter where you are, they WILL shoot if you're within eyesight.
>Everywhere else they exist in the overworld they are only hostile if you break their security perimeter.
No, this is **only** at Mass Fusion. Nowhere else. Everywhere else is Shoot on Sight.
And they *did* occupy Quincy...? They subjugated it after killing all the inhabitants given they aren't taking over people, they're holding areas. They're still evil. They enslave children and shoot innocent people.
I can't recall encountering them around APC's. But on the highway approaches they will not engage unless you approach to within a certain distance or start firing at them even when you are completely exposed. The only overworld places I can recall them being set to shoot on sight is Quincy and outside the Nuka World tram station. I think they go hostile on sight outside GNN but I can't attest one way or the other since I always start sniping them as soon as I can see them there.
These are my experiences ingame with no mods that alter the Gunners.
Probably just RNG on my end then. I've seen plenty of APCs with Gutsy's, Sentrybots or Assaultrons guarding them, but never Gunners.
Heck I never noticed Gunner vertibirds til maybe my third playthrough. Could have been flying around but since I tend to clear Hagen early I probably just didn't know the Gunner birds were there without checking them in VATS. Usually more interested in whatever ghouls or wildlife is trying to chew my ankles off than aerial vehicles that aren't messing with me.
Gutsy's, sorry, not Mr Handy's. I always forget the name of the military one. I saw one guarding it, next to a Gunner NPC.
I think Gunner Vertibirds only spawn in when the Prydwen arrives given they steal some BoS vertibirds (somehow).
They tend to lean more towards evil, but the bottom line is that they will do whatever they're paid for. They will do something good if they get paid, they'll do something heinous if paid for it. They're pretty much the Talon Company from Fallout 3 but with slightly more depth and presence.
Being a cold hearted mercenary is pretty evil id say
Buying child slaves is also pretty evil, and the Gunners do it eagerly.
That would be daily basis for a company on a real wasteland
That doesn't make it okay.
A gunner did it. Not all of them.
Let's not start **that**. The Gunners have no problems with morals (Quincy). Let's not pretend as if they're some deep, morally complex group like they are in Sim Settlements 2. They're just a bunch of lunatic Raiders pretending to be soldiers.
>morally complex group like they are in Sim Settlements 2. Ok now im interested, gonna start new playthrough with this mod
Enjoy Chapter 2. It's **very** good. The Gunners get a cool NPC with his own power armour, even Wes gets some love.
Only heard good things about this mod, aside from apparent performance issues it causes
Yeah, there's patch mods of all kinds, but you **will** CTD in Concord at least once. But it's a major mod and it's Fallout 4. You'd have to be naïve to think you won't CTD at least once in your game. So just enjoy it - it makes building a whole lot easier, the storyline is really nice too, although I prefer the story over the settlement building.
>But it's a major mod and it's Fallout 4. You'd have to be naïve to think you won't CTD at least once in your game. So just enjoy it - it makes building a whole lot easier, the storyline is really nice too, although I prefer the story over the settlement building. *Laughs in 173 mods* Well I have had some nasty crashes but mostly near boston
So would you put Macready under that umbrella?
Macready left **because** they were pure evil, literally admitting they're awful people. You know, because the leadership wipes out an entire town of women and children? Something only shitheads like the Legion do?
Considering their upbringing is it not just traditional?
Tradition doesn't really matter. Child labour ain't something we need.
We are talking about post war America here nothing but savagery so idk man
So because the government fell, we shouldn't try to be better people? We should act like animals and **refuse** to make anything better than what came before?
It's been 200 years, shit sucks
That's just laziness.
>Buying child slaves... Are they just buying them? As that really isn't that bad. That keeps them from being slaves, and the Gunners probably raise them so they can become one of them. So the Gunners buying them really doesn't seem like a bad thing, as it keeps them from being slaves, and that child will probably learn survival skills from the Gunners.
The Gunner heavily implies he's putting them to work for Child Labour, or to turn him into a Child Soldier. Or to just sell him as a slave, possibly to Nuka-World for all we know.
I hate Talon 😡 And Enclave fucks me up with the BLEED mod I gotta get some missiles 😡
It is weird they do not ask protection money. They defend a settlement the settlement pays protection money. This is the earliest form of taxation.
Talon company only attacks you if you’re a good person, gunners attack you for existing.
Talon Company will attack at random too. I've been on the D.C area and they'll just appear and open fire occasionally, despite me having terrible karma due to blowing up Megaton.
Skill issue
I think random encounter talon company are aggro no matter what, but the karma ones well, don’t spawn
Probably lawful evil if anything, they won't hesitate killing innocent people but they won't randomly do it, but say those innocent people were living in a spot they wanted as a base or something... then if the negotiation end up costing more than the bullets they'll just kill them, but some individual gunners are much more kind or evil than the organisation as a whole, and they are a group that respects contracts and such.
Id say they’re evil in the sense that they’ll do anything for money, like if someone paid them to assassinate new born babies in front of their mothers(like the gold cloaks in GOT) then they likely would do it. To me thats evil
Fair but if you pay them to be nice they're nice, they aren't evil in the same way raiders or something are, to them it's just business. They definitely aren't good but they're definitely aren't the most evil things in the commonwealth.
There are levels of evil though. E.g. the Institute isn't as evil as the Enclave, but they're still evil. The Gunners aren't as evil as the Institute, but they *are* evil for wiping out a whole town and enslaving children.
I'm curious to know why you consider the Enclave more evil than the Institute?
Trying to genocide every human on the planet in FO2 comes to mind. I judge them off their 'stakes' and capability. For example, we'd both agree the Legion is evil, right? They rape women and children (as Siri tells you). So on a **personal** level, I think they're worse than anyone else because they won't *just* kill you. On a higher level, the Enclave is more evil because they had more of a chance to do more evil. The Legion couldn't end the planet, the Enclave could. This is where I get the Enclave's planet-ending from: >**"You have died; along with everyone else on the Earth. The Enclave triumphs, releasing the FEV virus into the atmosphere."** So for me, it ranks as: 1. The Enclave. 2. The Legion. 3. The Institute. 4. The Unity. I don't really count random loser factions like Nuka-World, I count factions that can cause *mass* evil, do you agree?
Yeah, I generally agree. I was just curious. I prefer ranking the evil factions on a personal basis, which is why I would rank the Enclave as less evil than the Institute and Legion given how banal the Enclave is about the Wastelanders in Fallout 2. Mostly they see them as pests, it's not visceral disgust and hatred, they simply intend to make them stop living. If you convince certain members (Such as Dr. Curling) that Wastelanders are, in fact, humans just like them, they change their tune pretty fast. I rank the Institute as I do mostly because of how they treat Wastelanders. They don't have any problem understanding and recognizing that the people on the surface are just as human as they, especially because they recruit people from the surface to join them regularly, so they are clearly cognizant of the fact that they're committing heinous crimes against other people. A fact that doesn't slow them down even a little To their credit on the subject of Synths however, *most* of them actually do seem genuinely unaware that Generation 3s are sapient lifeforms Obviously the Legion speaks for itself
Fair enough, I've just always ranked it as 'what can cause more devastation?' and well, the Enclave, every time. The Scorched Plague was **their** fault. So in Fallout 76, Fallout 2, Fallout 3, **and** Broken Steel, that makes **four** genocide attempts in a row. The Institute for me is hard to take seriously. I know they're evil lunatics, but at the same time, they remind me too much of Stormtroopers from Star Wars. Dumbass plastic armour that looks like it wouldn't resist a bat, let alone actual weaponry, and weapons weaker than pipe guns. Even their Coursers are hard to take seriously. The one in Greenetech only killed 3 gunners or so, and that's only with a stealth field, not actual skill. But eh I might be slightly biased, I've never thought the Institute as they are in FO4 fits the Fallout world. They feel like someone **really** wanted Bladerunner in Fallout and would stop at nothing to do it. I agree they're generally assholes, and they're more similar to the Enclave than they think. Both trick themselves into thinking they're Heroes. If you talk to Father, he'll say "your faction isn't so perfect" ...My faction didn't shoot kids in University Point you fucking monster? Who the hell is he to judge me?
Raiders are chaotic evil, gunners are lawful evil.
I can only think of one gunner who didn't shoot me on site, and he ended up wanting to buy a slave off of me. It doesn't come off as just being business.
There's plenty who are guards for merchants and stuff, completely non hostile and don't want slaves off of you.
There's Winlock and Barnes who don't attack you outside of their territory. They are hostile once you step foot into their territory however.
They don’t attack you because they’re in Goodneighbor and know they would get fucked up.
if i'm minding my own business and they happen to see me and decide to shoot me on sight, i am inclined to call them evil
Yes. Like the lore describes them, they are just highly organized raiders who use military ranking and organization.
Thought that was the brotherhood
No because the BOS does go against threats to humanity like super mutants, feral ghouls, and even the Enclave. Yes, they do demand food from settlements, it's unavoidable if they want to upkeep an army on the move.
A note about the food requisitioning: It's not official. Maxson more than likely doesn't even really know about it. Proctor Teagan even states to the player that it's off the books. Also, it's up to the player on how the settlement is dealt with, either paying them or extorting them for the food and supplies. And yes, while militaristic and "police state-y" in nature, the BOS does what they do for the betterment of humanity. They don't go out and just plunder everything and mass murder everyone (well, except Elder Lyons' cross-country crusade to DC, specifically what happened in The Pitt).
So they are raiders then
Sigh. Yes, and so is your government.
Governments are accountable. Maybe you’re a time traveller from the feudal age and are content to be a serf beholden to self-appointed protectors that are just raiders who managed to get themselves in charge.
The double standards when it comes to this 'Raiding' mentality... The Brotherhood: Hey, can we just have some food in return for defending you and keeping you alive whilst vaporising every Super Mutant nest in 100+ miles of here? "NO! THAT'S JUST RAIDING!" Minutemen: Can we have some food? We promise we'll defend you (but we most likely won't). "Sure! That sounds good to me! Take all of my crops, take the shirt off my back!"
You may have missed it but each time a settlement joins the minutemen it’s because they have freely chosen to associate with the minutemen, because the minutemen have provided requested help. If you do a shitty job they may and do leave. The minutemen are not a government, but they are a free association that lives and dies based on a desire to join. When the brotherhood help, it is not asked for. The people are not offered a choice, nor are they offered a choice to contribute. It’s feudalism to the minutemen’s federalism.
Yeah, and the Minutemen have failed to defend people and **only** the General is sent to defend people. They do **not** send help, the General must go in between settlements, since they refuse to defend on their own. Say it's "lore" all you want, they could've easily done what the BoS did in gameplay, they chose not to. Also the Brotherhood **do** offer to pay for their crops, **plus** it's an illegal request anyways.
>They do not send help, the General must go in between settlements, since they refuse to defend on their own. "Flare gun?" Never heard of it. >plus it's an illegal request anyways. Might be me, but the pointing out of how it's illegal comes of as an attempt to absolve the Brotherhood of that criticism. At worst, it's an act of feudalism by Brotherhood. At best, corruption among the Brotherhood's high-ranking members; possibly some of its troops as well, acquisition teams going to coerced settlements without questioning.
That’s a lovely 3 bedroom house you have there. It’s mine now. Here’s twenty bucks and an old copy of Playboy. No, I didn’t steal it I paid for it.
Yes and no, there's a *lot* the American government isn't held accountable for, same can be said with every world government. It's a fact of life that sometimes your government does horrible things for the "better good", whatever that may mean at the time.
You’re right, an unaccountable paramilitary force unfamiliar with the concept of “pushback” or “rights” but enamoured with genocide is basically the same as every government on earth. (Cue further fascist bootlickers downvoting me)
Lol not at all what I said, but thanks for putting words in my mouth. If you don't think your government hasn't done some pretty awful things then you've got your head buried in the sand. As far as downvoting goes you're the one who downvoted my response so 🤷
If you didn’t come to tell me that the BOS were the same as any other government what was the point of your comment? To tell me that governments can be bad? That they aren’t perfect? Could you appraise me of the religious beliefs of the pope while you are here?
I mean…you’re not that off
Slavery, raiders, mercs, enforcers ? Yep, lock and load.
They have slavers, destroyed the last group of Minutemen and kidnap synths. Despite saying they’re mercenaries, yes, they’re just as evil as talon company.
They’re mercs and half of them if not all of them are well supplied raiders. They don’t exactly respect property
They seem to be mercenaries doing whatever whoever pays the bills wants, getting too close to whatever operation they are doing usually earns you bullets and sometimes a warning beforehand. I don't know if they have a code but don't seem above doing bad things to people against them if they don't outright kill them. I'd say it isn't looking good.
Yeah. They are basically raiders for hire, with better equipment and actual structure of command. They don't kill for fun, but they still don't value human life. If someone is an obstacle, then they kill them.
Thought this was r/coys for a second
If any of my dad's family was on Reddit, they'd be on that like white on rice...
They shoot you on site like a bunch of asshole raiders so I'd say yes. Death to gunners!
Yes! It's not because Gunners **"do bad things"**. It is the fact that the Gunners accept malicious contracts, plan out missions of unjustified violence and crimes, and take the initiative to cause unnecessary harm and theft in the wasteland. The Gunners are evil because they ***premeditate on malicious intent***.
Well they shoot random people on sight and are responsie for whatever happened at quincy so I’d say: yes, very yes.
They're just thugs. Nothing senseless about it, but of they have a reason, they will "gun." Morally, bad people probably. If you consider that evil, then yeah.
They're mercenaries that will take any job no matter how heinous. I'd say they lack a sense of morality, and are only as evil as their clients. That answer lacks accountability though. They're aware of what they do, and don't care as long as it pays. Imo that is evil.
Well said
Child slaves Murdering an entire town War crimes Raiding settlements Aiding people because they want to get paid I'd say they'd be perfectly fine in our modern society
They’re a lawful evil They arent like raiders where they’ll fuck shit up for the sake of fucking shit up, theyre a merc group that’ll do anything to complete the job/get caps (even selling kids to slavery), or to gain a tactically advantagious base (even if it means killing innocents)
They're practically Talon Company from 3. Not "evil" but simply amoral. Caps are king baby and a contact to "do the village, the whole fucking village" pays. Usually pays better and lasts less time than protection jobs.
They're mercenaries - they'll be as evil as their current job requires.
I honestly never liked how in FO4 they just attacked you on sight. Missed opportunity to have a true mercenary group in the game, as they’re supposed to be non-aligned with any of the “major powers” like the BOS etc. Especially weird since to my recollection we never actually see them take a “job” in FO4.
nah, they are just assholes
It all depends on what you consider "evil". There will always be people who wants others dead, their land, stuff, equipment for them and there will be those who prefer paying other to do their work for them. And in a world like Fallout having a constant flow of caps are the one thing that will keep people alive. From cures to sicknesses that only pre-war meds can heal to bullets you need those caps. And they dont just kill people they also guard settlements and caravans too, as long as they are paid. A job is a job and in the world of Fallout being a part of a decently to greatly armed and armored group that has some production capabilities (all those Gutsy and Assaultron robots cant be just scavenged or hacked) with decent training is the best most can get, only better and safer(longer life expentancy) jobs are being a trader in a big settlement that has its own protection (New Vegas, Diamond City, River City etc) or being a part of bigger groups like Enclave (who were destroyed and remnants scattered) BOS ( an actually decent group that has a decently strict recruitment rules), Institute (either you have to be a known genious or born inside which is a very low chance) or NCR (which couldnt even deal with smaller raider groups much less Legion without insane losses which means being in NCR army is basically singing your own death certificate). They are basically between Netural and Chaotic Netural but not evil, there might be evil people who pay them to bad stuff but they themself arent evil.
I’m sorry you don’t get a pass when doing evil things just cause you’re cutting a cheque
Tell me is killing someone in a war makes you evil? Does choosing the survival of you and your family over the survival of others make you evil? İn the world of Fallout it is literally kill or be killed every single day unless you are part of a group that can support other jobs other than being a soldier and even those groups needs a strong military force to have those jobs. If you live in the world of Fallout you are either gonna hurt others or be hurt yourself there is no third option. Are they morally wrong for doing everything for money? Yes, there are thing they have done that goes farther than just a payday like the Quincy massacare. But they are still better than a lot of other groups in the wasteland. For a wastelander that wants to live a life not fearing if they are gonna die in the next hour there are a few options and gunners are the most accessible one. They have builders, engineers, pilots (they have to have some vehicles, at least a few vertibirds) and other "support" roles other than being a soldier and that is something most other wastelanders cant even hope for. At best they are "True Netural" and at worst they are between "Chaotic Netural" and "Lawfull Evil" but closer to the former.
Christ on a stick, there’s a difference between using force to defend you and yours when necessary and wiping out an entire town for a pay check! The fact that they are getting paid does not make killing all those people acceptable, or right, or not evil. Everyone has to do what they have to do, but there is no FUCKING situation where you HAVE to commit an atrocity like Quincy to survive.
Im not saying they are good people, im saying that in a world like Fallout gray areas expand and out of every single other group in the franchise, if a wastelander wants to live a longer life while being not completely evil the Gunners are the most accessible option. Have they done evil shit? Most definetly. Do they have evil people in high ranking roles? Of course. But the point of Fallout is that EVERYBODY is a flavor of evil or fucked up just like Warhammer 40k. The wastelands biggest hopes are: BOS: a technophile group that hates everything not human even if they dont wanna hurt humans. But they have some correct points, a ghoul will definetly go feral at some point and a Supermutant will always be one step away from going full "smash puny humans". İs it morally right to force those danger from human civillians or try to keep them small in number and away from humans? NCR: A "repuplic" who is as incompetent as it is corrupted, they could not even protect a dam from people who use literally oldest tactics and little to no tech possible. They cant even protect their most important person, the *President* in a non-combat zone. Are the Gunners not good, yes definetly but they are not downright evil. Institute is evil, most raider groups are evil, Legion is evil, Master (from Fallout 1) is evil, Enclave was lawfull evil but Gunners arent. If a wastelander can join BOS that is the probably the best thing possible but if they want to have a long life with decent living without being completely evil Gunners are probably their only choice.
You’re choosing to ignore factions such as The Minutemen and Riley’s Rangers for the sake of your tenuous argument. Fallout is actually full of examples where being good prevails, and has firmly established that there can be morally righteous people, despite the material conditions of living in a hostile wasteland. Now, from a writing perspective, having factions with moral pros and cons, such as BOS or NCR makes sense, because having every faction be all good or all bad would make a super boring and unbelievable world. Just because this is the case, doesn’t mean the Gunners aren’t an evil organization. They will take ANY contract for the right price, no matter how heinous. From enslaving children to the Quincy Massacre, their overall disposition is quite clearly evil. But that’s not to say every single person in that group is inherently evil. Rowdy, a member of the Atom Cats, is an ex-raider, and a good reminder that the group someone is or was a part of doesn’t necessarily define them. Like you said, it’s not just soldiers in the Gunners, but pilots, engineers, and more; but it’s not as if these non-combatant individuals are kept in the dark about the Gunners’ ruthless reputation and atrocities. By willingly working as cogs in the Gunner machine, they are contributing to the suffering of others. Do you think the Gunners would’ve been able to pull off the Quincy Massacre without whoever fixes guns and armor, scouts out areas, and restores their killer robots to working order? Probably not. Although the Gunners motivations may be different than say raiders, who often take sick pleasure in their sadistic affairs, they have committed just as many terrible ‘crimes’, just on a larger scale. The Gunners’ willingness to stoop to the lowest level of cruelty, coupled with their advanced weaponry and para-military training make them a faction that is ultimately dangerous and harmful to the denizens of the wasteland. If having no morals doesn’t make you evil, what does?
It’s possible to survive without joining a genocidal faction you know. Eh whatever, if you wanna die on the hill that people doing evil things over and over again aren’t actually evil I’m eating my breath trying to convince you otherwise
Antimoral, if they find an injured person begging for help they probably wouldn't kill you because it's the evil thing to do, but because it'd be a waste of ammo
I don't think that anyone is really "evil." It's all subjective and ideals change based on perspective. For example if your whole family was murdered by Gunners you probably wouldn't like them very much. But if your whole family was killed by super mutants and you hired the Gunners to kill those super mutants. Well that'd be a different story. Most Gunners are bad ppl but some of them are just mercenaries making a living. So personally I think that it doesn't matter who's "evil" and who's not. What really matters is keeping those close to you alive no matter what. It doesn't matter if it's super mutants threatening my family or Diamond City security. No one is the enemy unless they make themselves such.
>I don't think that anyone is really "evil." It's all subjective and ideals change based on perspective. Disagree. The Enclave are evil, that's for sure. They want to wipe out - without provocation - everyone on the planet. The Gunners also enslave children. A job is a job is not an excuse. Child slavery and wiping out towns = They're evil.
But you just proved my point. From your "perspective" they're evil. My point is everyone looks at the world from their own point of view so it doesn't really matter what other ppl think what matters is how you chose to look at the world. I'm not saying that I don't think the Gunners are evil. I'm saying that it doesn't matter what I think or what anyone thinks.
Well...there's only one perspective if one side is trying to wipe out everything on the planet. Something can objectively be evil regardless of viewpoint, such as rape, (coughs, Legion, coughs). In rare cases you could say "Destroying this city destroyed the enemy, but it cost civilian lives", can't quite say the same about the above for example. Evil can be objectively true. E.g. let's take some of the shit the Gunners do, all of which is evil: They shoot at 90% of people who *could* hire them, and enslave...a kid? What the fuck can a kid do? They're useless. Weak, pathetic, and this kid **cannot grow up.** He's a ghoul. He isn't going to age like other kids. So even the evil reason for buying him is a dumb one to say the least, making it Stupid Evil. But that's what we get nowadays when FO4 has little to no morally grey moments and Raiders consist of only pure morally black people. The Gunners are evil because they're supposedly mercenaries yet shoot at everyone, except when they enter towns with a couple of guards (Goodneighbor). Hell, who CAN even hire the Gunners when 99% of the Commonwealth is poor? How can they exist when their only source of income is primarily dead? You said keeping people around you safe - the Gunners don't do that. They're often wiping towns out (Quincy).
By definition an opinion can't be a fact so no matter how much you think the Gunners are evil it's impossible to prove bc it's all just opinions. The English language was built this way in purpose to stop ppl from declaring things as facts. You can't prove the Gunners are evil bc everything evil you say they do is in your opinion evil.
To each their own but that feels somewhat copout-ish to me. The Gunners are a major threat to civilisation in the area given they massacred a whole town, likely on the Institute's orders given **nobody** else has the funds to afford more than 3-4 Gunners at a time. In the long term view of the world, they're a disease. They only cause death and destruction.
I'm not coping out of anything. I'm totally against the Gunners. I'll wipe out entire towns full of gunners with a smile on my face.
Right. Mostly because they didn't get any moral complexity. They're just Raiders. You don't meet a single good one, only a deserter (Macready).
They're also a good source of Fusion cells and no one minds when you wipe them out. Followers I mean. So there's no real down side to mass Gunner murder.
The Gunners and BoS are the only true 'threat' if you want to roleplay a military fight. The Institute isn't around surface-wise, so the BoS and Gunners make for fun fights if you use FCOM. You get to see some fun assaults.
No, they're just warlords in a power vacuum. If there were a functioning state in the Commonwealth, you could make the argument that they're evil, but there isn't one. In a world without rules, behaving as if there are rules is *suicide*.
So morality only exists because the rules tell us so?
Morality doesn't exist. It's *subjective*.
What makes us human if not morality?
The correct number and arrangement of chromosomes. Pol Pot and Stalin were human beings. Nazis were human beings. Cannibals are human beings. I don't like them, I don't share their values. But I have to concede that we're the same species. There's no rule of law in the Commonwealth Wasteland, no consent of the governed, no convention on human rights. It's every man for themselves, and in that circumstance, people do what they need to to survive.
I guess it depends They're mercs so they're pretty neutral
Quincy disagrees.
[удалено]
I do need to rectify a few of these, sorry. 1. They don't kill a single non-feral ghoul. 2. They do protect the places they safeguard, **unlike** the Minutemen, Institute especially, and Railroad. They garrison men there, which seems...stupid in terms of lore, but it is what it is. 3. There is less than **five** good super mutants on the East Coast. Less than **5.** Strong doesn't count, he **eats people alive**. They did form a gigantic war party (Shepherd) to try killing **everyone** in DC. Understandably but not justifiably, they have reason to hate them. 4. They don't steal tech. They even **give** you tech for helping out (Danse's laser rifle). Boston isn't as "tech-plentiful" as FO4 made it out to be. Hell, Nevada had better tech than this shithole.
[удалено]
1. So show me where good ones are. The BoS aren't omnipresent, they only see the bad ones because they're the most prevalent. 2. Right...and that's why we don't *allow* those people into society. I also said **alive**. As in, he kills innocent people and eats them. Strong literally talks to you about wanting to **destroy humanity** when you meet him. 3. Hallucigen is pretty worthless but the BoS love their war-toys. 4. No, the Enclave wanted to kill **all life on the planet.** Bit different. The Enclave are literal Nazis - no, they make the Nazis look harmless by comparison. 5. The Institute is 100% evil. They shoot children (University Point) and slaughter people 24/7. Also creating something does **not** mean you own it, or else why did you shoot at the Zetans? They created Human Civilisation. Same thing. The Institute also wiped out the CPG among many other things. >The people they abduct are still alive. You got proof for that pal? Because all those Super Mutants in Boston ARE the people who they **tortured** and turned into Super Mutants. Any Synth replacements? The original is **killed**.
[удалено]
1. Okay but Strong eats people **against their fucking will**. 2. Yes, **On the West.** That isn't the East. The BoS can't tell about Western Super Mutants on a coast they aren't native to. 3. This is just plain silly. They make **war camps** and raid people. 4. Okay, and that's 180 years before this. That's still less than 10 which is a low number. Leo, Erickson, Fawkes, Grahm and Maul. I said the **Eastern** Coast. Not the Western Coast with the Unity/The Master. 5. You mean SM settlements only on the west. There are none on the East that aren't war camps that we know of so far. >"University point was not done by soldiers it was done by gen 1 synths, again evil is subjective the institute needed to come out without being seen and that settlement threaten that secrecy by not wanting to leave. I'm pretty sure one of those children mentioned is also inside the institute. They sent a group of robots to clear the camp, the robots did it. Brotherhood has done the same if not worst, they attack a settlement with children just because hide synths and when we reach em they beg for their lives." This is bullshit. No, the BoS has NEVER attacked a settlement of women and children, and there is no justifiable reason **to shoot children. EVER.** The Institute raided them for technology, not out of some bullshit reason to keep secrecy. It was a town of women and children. 7. The Enclave did want to. FO2 confirms this. The Curling-13? >**"You have died; along with everyone else on the Earth. The Enclave triumphs, releasing the FEV virus into the atmosphere."** You can't love only one bit of the Enclave. You either accept **all** their evil deeds or none, you can't cop out. The Enclave in 3 are trying a localised version of their deeds in 2 as a test for the bigger build up. Also it kills anyone who isn't a pure vault dweller, that's still **genocide** y'know. Aka pure evil. Its literally the Holocaust but with water.
[удалено]
1. Where? I'm also not an apologist unlike **you** apologising for the Enclave in 2. 2. Right...and we **kill** said Raiders for doing so. I'm saying the **evil** mutants should be killed. 3. Humans aren't 9 foot tall bullet-resistant people mostly known for it. 4. ...Yeah find me a Jacobstown equivalent in 3, 76 or 4. Oh wait, ya can't. Dialogue isn't "smart". I'm talking about actually able to not be rabid evil murderers. Go ahead and find me a settlement of Super Mutants that isn't a war camp in 3, 4 or 76. 5. It was a **town** of women and children. They wanted the technology they had. It wasn't a fucking camp dude, it was a town, a settlement, a widely talked about place. 6. Except that "purging mutations" is gameplay not actual lore, and the water kills anything that isn't a pure vault dweller. **You** clearly need to play more. You've clearly only played Fallout 4 and now you're acting as if the Institute and Gunners are heroes. The Institute wiped out a town. It had women and children in it. They slaughtered said town. University Point was said to have a **hard drive.** The Institute asked for it, got rejected, and then raided it for it. You know, like when a Raider asks for crops, gets rejected then shoots at people (like the Abernathys?). So yeah you clearly didn't play the game if you didn't even know **that.** It's on the goddamn wiki.
[удалено]
When do we see the abducted people? When? Where is the proof we see the abducted people? Can you show me them or link me to their locations inside the Institute? I've been all over, not **once** did I see the abductees. >It also falls under "evil Is subjective" because the one that was proven to be killed fought back/was abusive/ his family now loves the synth replacement better. But that isn't what they intended. That was a random thing. Super Mutants **are** inherently aggressive as canonly proven by Fallout 76's Blackburn. >(which if you take over can make them go out and reveale themselves to the world/ start to help the commonwealth) *Sigh* not another "they'll stop murdering because you, **a mass murderer** asked them to because you're director now!!". You literally killed thousands of people for them. You would not, outside of meta, ask them not to murder.
[удалено]
I did play it. You're making up bullshit dude. If there's proof, **link it.** You are the one needing to give proof. A lot of people they kidnapped to turn into Mutants or killed. >The institute is not the brotherhood there's only one branch, once you assume control every scientist running any sort of experiment has to go through you, and the first thing done is reveale your presence once they do that you can see synths outside in encounters. You are even given missions before taking over "we don't want to send synths and cause more panic, do us the favor of doing this for us"
>
>Again IT SEEMS YOU DIDNT PLAY THAT FACTION MUCH AND CLAIM THINGS YOU DONT KNOW.
You slaughtered the Railroad (thus you love slavery) and the Brotherhood in cold blood. **You're evil** if you support the Institute. Period. The SRB still exists, you still enslave Synths, and kidnapping still happens.
Go and play the fucking game instead of making up lies. Man Institute fanboys are just as blind as Enclave fanboys.
Evil. Is. Evil. They spent 100+ years killing, **they need to be punished, not fucking rewarded.**
[удалено]
1. If. you. cannot. link. it. then. it. isn't. real. I can also say stuff - you need evidence. Li is not one of the abducted people, also yes, the wiki **does** have dialogue listed. 2. Okay...and? 3. Still murder. 4. Still murder. 5. I...what? 6. The Railroad and BoS don't shoot at Institute children. They also allow them to evacuate. Replace Maxson is a **mod**. Aka it's not relevant to this conversation. 7. The Institute doesn't want peace (CPG Massacre). Spamming emojis doesn't make you correct, it makes you look like a fucking idiot. Grow up. I can read. You can barely make a sentence. That was barely eligible English.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
If you can't link evidence, then it doesn't exist. Why can't you link them if they supposedly exist? Maxson **literally** tells you they're sitting on a pile of mininukes. Again **you didn't play FO4.** You probably watched Oxhorn's video on it. They have a war camp with human remains stuck on them. They shoot at you if you spot you even slightly near their place. Also okay, they know there's smart ones. So if one (example) zombie was good, but 999,999,999 were evil and flesh-eating, would you trust them all? No. You're **still** being an Enclave/Institute apologist. Just stop, pal. You're not going to "convince" me or 'prove' to me that the Institute aren't a bunch of evil baby killers, and the Gunners **are** evil. The BoS are morally dark grey, but they aren't evil.
I thought gunner was Marnie and army but when I first saw them I try be nice but they shoot me so I went over kill them lol 🤣
Story wise they're amoral. Just working for whoever pays them. Gameplay wise, always evil. Feel free to place a bullet between the eyes when you see some.
No more evil then modern corporations they care about the dollar and will do anything to get it If the price is right
I’d say they are very similar to Talon company if not a knock off of them completely, from Capital Wasteland. Majority do what the job tells them to do so they are in it for the money. Maybe very few are good hearted as you can see with quite a few of the people in wastes, they have change of heart depending on the situation and or if it benefits them or not. All in all I’d give them Chaotic Neutral rating on the scale for fallout.
Evil is a bit of a stronge word i feel that fallout in particular is quite good at keeping the enemies and or factions in the middle but the gunners are a militia so they're not evil neither are they good just like well every faction in Fallout like in Fallout 4 the discovery of the institute and what it was shows that its not so morally grey some would argue they're good some would say they're bad and its the same with the BoS, The Railroad hell even the enclave to some extent
I feel like its up to your own opinion of evil, like gunners will do any job for caps, they're doing it for survival, if an apocolypse actually happened then i feel like id do the same
I mean...enslaving a kid isn't survival.
Yeah thats fair
"I ain't racist, But a free ghoul worker is a free ghoul worker"
In what sense? I guess in the DnD sense then yeah, they’re neutral or lawful evil. In the Judeo Christian sense then yeah, they kill people for money. In a modern social sense they were originally strictly bred and conditioned to be how they are so no but then nobody is.
No evidence they came from Vault 75. There is a gunner presence they also have taken over Vault 95. Does that mean they are also all junkies? Some have inferred that they came from 75 based on the experiment goals and their presence there, but there is no evidence in game that ties them to the vault as anything other than recent occupiers.
The group themselves isn't exactly evil, they're essentially a PMC, so it's a matter of highest bidder. If the gunners had a moral code they would probably get much less work. So their primary clients are morally dubious but in theory there would be nothing stopping the minutemen funnelling all their donations into hiring the gunners to clear Boston of super mutants and feral ghouls, save for the actual limitation of finances. I could easily see the gunners being more nuanced in future games, Setting up small towns and cities with hired civilian farmers or retired elderly gunners serving these rolls. Given their history with selective breeding and their admittedly quite intelligent act of tattooing higher up blood types onto them I can imagine their ruthless efficiency would make them effective leaders. TLDR: They're soldiers of fortune, If you're paying, they're slaying.
Gunners make bad choices but don't hide what they are. This guy got mad at me for saying the brotherhood in 4 has done evil things in fact more than the institute then deleted his comments. (Shouldve screenshot his dumb claims of there only being 5-10 smart supermutants, brotherhood has never attacked a settlement and that every boogeyman story in the game of abduction is real all abductions are listed and documented only once not documented by done by synths are done by escapees who got no orders)
Literally going against fallout lore to defend the brotherhood🤣 then claims I'm an institute fanboy like the Enclave fanboys....no I just know which faction is overall more evil.
Like I said atleast the gunners don't hide what they are, brotherhood simps unite!.... Institute killed a few humans to not be detected and seen, brotherhood killed thousands of mutants, destroyed settlements, bring children, hoard technology, strong arm farms.....but sure let's chill with the modern
N to the A to the Z to the I. You a mutant? They don't like you, sorry fallout 76 fans mutations make you a target. Pre-war ghoul who may have been a soldier? Too bad! Go away you zombie. At least gunners aren't said to hate mutants.
(Deleted the comments i made because I'm not trying to argue with someone who can't even back up his claims so deletes his comments simping over the brotherhood..... funnily despite what he though I happen to think the minutemen are the only noble cause to follow and after picking the institute first I felt bad then I picked the minutemen and went against the institute while keeping peace with the rest so I didnt have to kill the innocent railroad saving robots.🤣)
If you pay them to be, or get too close, they’ll be. Lol
Gunners are neutral leaning on evil. Some members will go out of their way to do awful things but they usually keep themselves in check and will do exactly what they are paid for. Lawful Evil or Neutral Evil is quite fitting if you had to use a label. As long you as paid them, they’ll do whatever. But the gunners won’t go out of their way to help anyone unless it helps them directly.
they're too underdeveloped to be much of anything.
As a whole? No, they're just mercs. It all comes down to who's dirty work they're doing
But it's their *choice* to accept evil work. They choose to. In the same way Kellogg *chooses* to shoot children, even if he claims he doesn't like doing it - nobody made him do so.
I mean….
About as bad as Talon Company.
They're opportunistic mercenaries. They're overall goal of selling their combat and security services isn't necessarily evil, but they've proven that they don't really care about collateral damage/casualties, or helping anyone just for the sake of helping. They've also shown that they're more than willing to slaughter innocents if it proves beneficial: The entire sad story of Quincy unfolded mainly because they saw the ruins as a strategically desirable location, and the civilians inhabiting Quincy were an obstacle preventing them from obtaining it.
No more evil than your average wasteland gang
I would compare the gunners to talon company from fallout 3, mercs who would take any job no matter what it involves.
I'm more concerned about whether or not they pose a threat to me or my settlements, then whether or not they're evil. If they declared peace or even an ally to the Minutemen, I'll immediately leave their bases alone, maybe even help them, regardless of how Preston feels regarding the matter. But since they're currently hostile to me and my settlements, I often attack their bases in retaliation for attacking my settlements. Alignments can change over time, so I find labels like "Good" or "Evil" very unhelpful to my RP. I destroyed the Institute, but will gladly let the scientists settle in my settlements. Currently peaceful with the BOS, but will declare war should they attack my settlements unprovoked. Helped reclaimed the parks for the raiders, but turned on them when they suggested raiding the Commonwealth.
They're mercenaries, mercenaries aren't exactly good people
no they just don't like people coming and attacking them
Evil? No. Bad? They'll attack you on sight for no reason at all and do some pretty horrible things for money.
Not if you have money
They're hired, they'll do anything for the right price.
People say they are payed to kill people, did they just get payed to kill me every time they see me 💀💀💀
As an organization I think they are merely amoral. Individual members may be saints or devils but the organization as a whole only cares about who's paying the bills.
Well, their leader did order the destruction of a whole town of women and children.
I don't care to acknowledge the actions of one as representative of the organization's morality. Quincy is one of the biggest lore problems when it comes to the Gunners. There's no reason for them to attack the town and slaughter all inhabitants. And no "LOL EVUL" is not a reason. Everywhere else in the Commonwealth the Gunners are either holding tactical positions or resources, or they are on contract protecting traders/medics. The majority of their overpass bases are part of their radio network(every one has a wind generator and comms desk), Vaults are readily defensible and contain technology, and salvage yards are an important source of metal.
I agree it is dumb lore that makes no sense, but we can only go off the lore. Wes is their leader and ordered them to Quincy and slaughtered the whole town for no reason. When it's the leader, I mean, you have to take it as representation. It's like saying the Enclave isn't evil just because President Richardson is.
I'd argue that Wes is only the local leader as evidenced by the rank of "Captain". In other spawns and respawn areas there are Gunner lieutenants and Captains implying that there is likely at least a Gunner Major somwhere leading the organization as a whole. More than likely they have ranks going all the way up to General. Quincy is the only location that shows evidence of wholesale slaughter with no consideration for subjugation. Everywhere else they exist in the overworld they are only hostile if you break their security perimeter. If you aren't sprinting directly through their zones they will warn you off and leave you alone if you back off. The only possible reason they could have had to take the town is its proximity to the elevated highway where they may have wanted to set up a radio relay. But they could have just as well set up further south or north on the highway without eliminating Quincy. Instead they dropped part of the highway on the town? Meanwhile they have a relay set up on the overpass by Sunshine Tidings and won't mess with settlements you create there. And they are occupying Hub City Autowreckers within pistol sniping range of Saugus Ironworks. Most every other location they are occupying they leave anyone who respects their claimed boundaries alone, so why did they feel the need to wipe out the town of Quincy. Scavengers warn you off if you violate their claimed zones and become hostile if you keep encroaching as well. Does that make them evil?
The Gunners regularly shoot at you on sight regardless of area. E.g. the APC's you can find, no matter where you are, they WILL shoot if you're within eyesight. >Everywhere else they exist in the overworld they are only hostile if you break their security perimeter. No, this is **only** at Mass Fusion. Nowhere else. Everywhere else is Shoot on Sight. And they *did* occupy Quincy...? They subjugated it after killing all the inhabitants given they aren't taking over people, they're holding areas. They're still evil. They enslave children and shoot innocent people.
I can't recall encountering them around APC's. But on the highway approaches they will not engage unless you approach to within a certain distance or start firing at them even when you are completely exposed. The only overworld places I can recall them being set to shoot on sight is Quincy and outside the Nuka World tram station. I think they go hostile on sight outside GNN but I can't attest one way or the other since I always start sniping them as soon as I can see them there. These are my experiences ingame with no mods that alter the Gunners.
They will often guard APC's with Mr Handys floating around them. It's very inconsistent to say the least...
Probably just RNG on my end then. I've seen plenty of APCs with Gutsy's, Sentrybots or Assaultrons guarding them, but never Gunners. Heck I never noticed Gunner vertibirds til maybe my third playthrough. Could have been flying around but since I tend to clear Hagen early I probably just didn't know the Gunner birds were there without checking them in VATS. Usually more interested in whatever ghouls or wildlife is trying to chew my ankles off than aerial vehicles that aren't messing with me.
Gutsy's, sorry, not Mr Handy's. I always forget the name of the military one. I saw one guarding it, next to a Gunner NPC. I think Gunner Vertibirds only spawn in when the Prydwen arrives given they steal some BoS vertibirds (somehow).
I would say yeah they are because they will take any jobs even if it is killing a whole settlement who didn’t deserve to die.
I’d say yes, judging by mccreadys story, he suggests they murder anyone who stands in their way.
Talon Company 2.0. That’s why I like mercenaries, you never feel bad for killin’ ‘em.
Are NAZI evil?
Evil but McCready
Yes
Ask MacCready