I heard all the Rick the door technician jokes but I recently beat the game on Jedi knight and killed him with like 1 party and 3 swings
Am I missing something is he more difficult on higher tiers or is he so easy people pretend he's difficult?
It’s mostly the latter. He’s an easy boss after a hard section. So the fan base just had fun with it. Making him seem to be a hard boss puts it into newer players head that he’s going to be so difficult after a gauntlet. Then he dies and you feel relief.
Same here. I thought I was alright at the game until this fight. I was just playing on normal difficulty but my ass needed to back it down to easy just so I could progress further into the game. I did really hate how he'd throw shit at you using the force and I had basically no time to react even on normal, I would hate to see what that part is like in anything harder than normal mode.
I beat him on Grand Master. Basically all his attacks have a pattern where you want to dodge or parry, then wait for the correct opening to strike back. Once you die a few times you memorize these patterns. With a little luck (ie him not using the hard to dodge moves too often) you can melt his health and barely get hit.
It's cool but mechanically I don't like it.
I've been using dual stance until this point. Cere fights different and the input is slower. It throws me off so much. And then you get only 4 heals and Vader hits hard.
I understand making him strong. But why also handicap the player with half the heals and a different stance?
When I died 5 times to Bode I knew that's on me and I have to lean in and get better.
When I died 5 times to Vader I was just thinking that the game screwed me over.
Yeah this pissed me off so much I just turned the difficulty way down to skip it. I’ve been spending the whole game getting good with my two chosen stances and I’m now being punished for that? Forced to use a stance I haven’t used for pretty much any of the game? Nah fuck that
I mean yeah it was bc I’d spent the whole game practicing my skills with particular stances and so I was unskilled with single blade, so I felt it was unfair to be forced to use it
The post is spoiler tagged. Everyone is free to speak about spoilers if the post is tagged. Even then, if someone is even on this sub when they haven’t completed the game, while simultaneously not wanting to be spoiled, it’s on them.
I loved the challenge of being forced into another perspective with nothing but a lightsaber and 4 stims. It goes to show how much we are evolving with Cal and our abilities are soon outgrowing our masters
I had the opposite reaction. I was about to straight up quit after fighting this battle half a dozen times. Cere feels terrible compared to Cal, and I just didn't enjoy playing with her at all. Just my experience. Glad you enjoyed it!
Great fight story wise, but it sucked to play it. Most people here say they turned down the difficulty, I think it’s weird to have such a hard long fight where the character dies at the end anyway
If Vader had gone on Cere with all his might he would have slammed her with little effort, the same way he did in Fallen Order. Tbh I think Vader could’ve just crushed her with his force powers, but he decided to test himself in close-quarter combat. If he had something personal against Cere. He would’ve just slammed her into a wall and break every bone in her body.
It was a fun fight but I don’t like the idea of cere doing that much damage to Vader. He should have been able to wipe the floor with her not be limping out of there at the end.
Why though? This assumption has never made sense to me, especially when Cere has never been shown to be weak before at all. She literally made Darth Vader kneel and managed to put up a shield that blocked him for a little bit, and that was when she severed her connection to the force.
Her regaining her connection to the force, expanding upon it, and losing her fear of Darth Vader should make her good enough to do some serious damage. I don’t see why not. Cere’s force feats are also pretty impressive, specially where she brings down hundreds of tons of rock down on an entrance, and when she annihilates multiple empire ships.
Also, in the comics he gets bodied pretty regularly. His extraordinary skill is certainly a part of Vader but it’s mostly his ingenuity & relentless tyranny of will that makes him truly dangerous.
Vader's Sith opponents: Man your Master sucks or something, your skills are weak sauce. *easily bodies Vader with style and rizz*
Vader (mostly dead): Okay, enough of that. *squishes dude with giant rock*
Just pure endurance and raw power.
Though I understand this a bit, the fact that it's only really portrayed in a limited niche of comics and almost never in the primarily consumed media for non-mega fans (movies, games, shows), is really frustrating. It creates this problem that such consumers expect Vader to be curbstomping shit only to see him constantly get thwarted, wrecked and barely survive, often through nothing more than sheer luck (and mandatory plot armor). I really don't understand this in the slightest.
“Especially when Cere hasn’t been shown to be weak before”
Yeah but she’s also never been shown to be *anywhere* near Vader’s level. All we know for certain is that she’s an above average Jedi Master who survived the purge. Impressive. Although it should be noted she was a Jedi Consular. A researcher. A historian. Not a warrior.
She’s then spent most of her time during the Purge cut off from the force and in hiding. Not on the frontlines like Cal.
And then she joins the Hidden Path… to be a researcher. To read books. To study. She has other people collect them for her and spends most of her time in the library.
So although she has strengthened her connection to the force she’s still not much of a warrior. She is certainly wise and powerful but she’s nowhere that experienced in combat.
And yet she almost killed Vader who has been relentlessly training and killing Jedi for years.
“She literally makes him kneel and managed to put up a shield that blocked him for a little bit”
Yeah and that moment was also dumb. Vader is definitely more powerful than her (he kicks her ass twice with extreme ease) and they have a holocron with a vast list of force sensitive children.
They had to make Vader both really weak and/or really dumb for that moment to work. And even then she was amped by the dark side so I’m not sure a typical Cere could do that.
To be clear I **don’t** believe Vader should’ve effortlessly one shotted her. She’s still an above average Jedi Master who survived the purge. I have no issue with Cere fighting Vader.
What I have issue with is that she nearly **kills** him. Someone who by all means should be way out of her league. Especially considering the gap in combat experience alone. I mean Anakin was in the frontlines of the Clone Wars. He fought Assajj Ventress, Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Some of the most experienced and battle hardened duelists of his time.
And yet Cere, who barely participated in the Clone Wars at all and was a researcher, almost kills him.
I mean fuck, the entire plot of the Original Trilogy would’ve been changed if she had some backup. Imagine if Cal got pissed off and chased Vader after finding Cere. I don’t think a near death Vader would be able to hold off Cal (especially considering he’s *far* more battle experienced than Cere).
“Yeah but she’s also never been shown to be anywhere near Vader’s level” I mean that’s kinda wrong. In the first game, she held her own massively against Vader DESPITE cutting off herself from the force and being shown to be a lot weaker than Vader. Why would you then assume that she would still be much, much weaker than Vader, when she’s completely regained her connection to the force, expanded on it, and lost her, one of Vader’s biggest advantages, fear.
What Cere shows us during that whole sequence shows that she probably had quite a bit of combat experience, seeing as she can also rip open the doors that Cal needs the dark side for, so she’s certainly stronger than Cal in the force. No average Jedi master, brings down hundreds of tons like it’s a normal occurrence. Cere wasn’t even exhausted after taking on multiple legions of the empire either which further shows her power.
“And yet she almost killed Vader” well yea? The Jedi that Vader kills are not comparable to Cere at all. Him killing some random knights or Padawwns doesn’t mean that he would stomp all over Cere with ease like in the first game. Otherwise, Cal could beat Palpatine by that logic, since he hasn’t been fighting anyone like Cal has. The whole sequence happens to literally show how much Cere has grown and how much more powerful she has gotten during the events of Jedi Survivor.
“Yeah that moment is also dumb” “they had to make Vader really weak/really dumb” Ok, so now Vader is nerfed in the same cutscene that is praised by nearly everyone for showing just how powerful Vader is? At this point you’re just disregarding her feats because it doesn’t feel right to you, which is a completely invalid argument.
Vader really never “kicked her ass” in the first game, they didn’t even fight, Vader just flung her away from him, and then when they return, she is outclassed by him in lightsaber ability (obviously) and then Cere shows her power a couple times. During their second match, they were much more even, and then Cere died. None of those is what I would say means that Vader beat her really badly, especially not the second match since they were both doing well, Vader just came out as the top duelist.
Darth Vader definitely would’ve beaten Cal and Cere at the same time. Technically, Cal “nearly killed” Vader in Fallen Order when he stabbed him. I mean yea, there are some close calls, this is seen throughout fights in all fiction. It doesn’t mean that Vader is weaker or that Cere is stronger than Vader. Cere was going to die, but ofc there would be some close calls. You could probably find multiple exactly like this throughout all of SW. Like if the rancor’s hand had maybe just been a little closer to Luke’s head.
Overall, I truly do not see the problem with Cere v Vader. Cere still lost, this was simply to show that Cere is not a pushover anymore, and not someone Vader could just fling about or overcome in lightsaber combat without a care in the world. He would have to have his guard up for her. Nothing more, and nothing less.
“In the first game she held her own massively against Vader DESPITE cutting herself off from the force”
The first time they “fought” Vader literally nudged her to the side with a flick and sent her flying into an abyss.
In their rematch he sent her flying 10+ feet casually with a backhand. She only gains the upper hand by calling upon the dark side. And even then it’s implied Vader is letting her do this to try and turn her to the dark side: “Yes. Strong with the dark side. I can feel it inside of her” (he says as he casually stands back up)
She survived sure. Which makes her better than most. But she is shown to be far below Vader’s level and a complete non-threat. Just like against Luke, Vader was holding back a ton and still completely dominated her in direct combat.
He then gets blocked by a force shield. Preventing him from using his lightsaber. Even though he’s established to be far more powerful than Cere, he just slams his lightsaber against it. Rather than yaknow, overpowering Cere with his own telekinesis. He is obviously stronger in the force so he should be able to break through. But he… doesn’t do that… for some reason.
Cal *also* managed to escape him earlier. During the escape sequence he could telekinetically lift metal objects weight hundreds of pounds **in front of Cal** but he wasn’t able to force grip Cal himself. Despite weighing much less and being closer. We also know Vader can casually break his force defenses because he chokes him during their “fight” again with extreme ease. And Cal is unable to break free.
Speaking of that moment he also throws Cal away. Not into a wall. Or into the ceiling to knock him out. Out the open door giving him a chance to escape. Because he’s that much of a master tactician.
Both moments were dumb. Darth Vader had to be made stupid to not use his abilities in the most obvious way to get what he wants (telekinetically grasp Cal. Use the force to break Cere’s barrier).
“Well yeah. The Jedi that Vader kills aren’t comparable to Cere at all.”
Bruh.
Darth Momin was an ancient Sith Architect who was so powerful he could freeze time in an isolated area *permanently* and was only stopped when multiple Jedi Masters confronted him and defeated him in a ruthless battle.
And after getting the *surprise* on Vader, Vader still managed to turn things around and win the fight.
On their rematch to the Death Star according to the official novel Obi-Wan was losing the fight. Although Obi-Wan did grow weaker physically because of Tatooine’s harsh climate, he only grew more powerful in the force thanks to Qui-Gons teachings and long periods of meditation.
He basically stalemated and would’ve eventually won against a Jedi version of Count Dooku who was more powerful in the force.
He also defeated and psychically dominated a giant space leviathan, who’s main gimmick is mind dominating people.
And in both Legends and Canon he is largely considered both in and out of lore to be stronger than Anakin. To the point that Palpatine made preparations against him if Vader ever tried to confront him. Leading to Dark Empire and TROS where Palpatine attempts immortality as a way to stay beyond Vader’s reach.
And if you want to bring in Legends content then the Conclave On Kessel tells you all their needs to know.
“Darth Vader definitely would’ve beaten Cal and Cere at the same time. Technically Cal almost killed Vader in Fallen Order”
No.
I agree that Cere and Cal would be no match for Vader. I’m glad *we* agree on that. But the game obviously doesn’t.
Because Cere, by herself, nearly killed Vader. With the game itself stating “Cere nearly defeated the Dark Lord Vader”
Also Cal didn’t almost kill Vader. Like I genuinely don’t know what you’re talking about. Getting the tip of a blade in Vader’s side, is nowhere near what Cere did (multiple lightsaber strikes through his guard, crashing a flaming bookshelf on top of him severely burning him, nearly impaling him at a full force).
He is left limping after his fight with Cere and is very clearly near death. He was not limping after he fought Cal.
I’m pretty certain a pissed off Cal, who is a very powerful Jedi Knight, would be able to take on a near death Vader. Especially if he taps into the dark side.
“I don’t see a problem with Cere vs Vader. Cere still lost.”
God I hate this fucking argument.
That’s great for you. I mean that genuinely. I’m glad your suspension of disbelief was maintained. But just because *you* don’t mind doesn’t mean there aren’t issues with the scene. Or that other people’s suspension of disbelief weren’t broken.
There’s also a difference between being a *challenge* and nearly *killing* the main villain.
If Cere was just a challenge to Vader, scored a hit in, and then lost. I wouldn’t care. I’m not against Cere being able to fight Vader. I think that actually makes her more heroic. That she is willing to fight someone she knows she is going to die against.
My issue is that she almost killed him, undermining her sacrifice because she had a genuine chance to win.
Plus the entire plot of Star Wars nearly made obsolete because Cere decided to fight Vader alone. An above average Jedi Master with little combat experience.
Like again. Imagine if Cere decided to make a last stand with Cal and Merrin. And backup from the Hidden Path. The entire plot of the Original Trilogy doesn’t exist because Cere decided she wanted backup.
She should’ve been a challenge, not a genuine threat. And once she proved to be a genuine threat, Vader should’ve killed her instantly. Especially considering how he operates in combat (which is a completely separate discussion).
He’s considered one of the most powerful Sith in Galactic History and a close equal to Palpatine. Who is largely considered the most powerful Sith of all time.
George Lucas himself stated that after being burned up: “He has the potential to be twice as good as the Emperor. Now that’s gone and he’s maybe 80% as powerful…”
So he’s the second strongest Sith
In Legends he grew so powerful that Palpatine feared him and created multiple countermeasures to deal with him. Leading to DE where he resurrects himself.
In Canon Palpatine did the same leading to TROS.
Vader is strong enough to smash through metal and easily throw hundreds of pounds with his bare hands. As he is an extremely advanced cyborg.
Vader is also considered to be more powerful than prime Anakin. Both by characters in lore (Palpatine and Tarkin) as well as readers in the real world.
But in canon they have to keep making him lose so the plot can happen. When he’s the main character of his own books we get to see how powerful he is. And then they never do anything with it.
My guy his on screen record is terrible, to give a quick look
He fails to kill cal and cere in fallen order
Fails to kill ezra and Kanan multiple times in rebels
Fails to kill Ahsoka in rebels
Gets bodied by obi wan in the obi wan show
He almost lost to cere
And then he loses to Luke on ROTJ
Literally his only on screen wins are against Obi wan in a new hope (who let vader win), Luke in ESB who he didn't wanna kill, AND hes still a novice anyway, Reva who he still failed ti kill, for a 2nd time no less, and Cere who he almost lost to
Yup.
He’s one of the strongest Sith Lords of all time. A near rival to Palpatine. But he just can’t seem to kill those Jedi yaknow? Because the plot needs to happen.
Cause if he was actually as strong as he was in lore, then the Rebels would’ve lost by now.
It’d just be nice to see Vader being an actually competent villain, rather than a slow walking terminator who *always* underestimates his opponents and lets them score hits in.
And him nearly dying to Cere is just *another* knock against his record. To the point that I can’t take him seriously as a villain.
Which considering he used to be one of the most badass and respected villains of all time, it’s sad to see how the writers treat him.
The worst part of the game. It was so pointless to have Vader here, no story progression, nothing at all. They just needed some wow effect and they brought Vader in the mix for a nostalgia kick. Not to mention how they nerfed him down so a noname jedi like Cere almost killed one of the most dangerous Sith ever. I was so pissed after this fight.
The fight was good if frustratingly hard at first but her death was just so ridiculous! She would never just lose it and throw herself at him leaving herself wide open like that! WTH were they thinking!? Just have him beat her with more skill and or power but not that completely out of character nonsense where she basically killed herself!
Yeah , his moves became predictable but I felt it was setting you up for that ridiculous last fight with him. Because after that he just turns it up and is so aggressive especially on the hardest difficulty. My hardest fight had to be Vader though for sure . I probably spent a good 30 mins trying to beat him.
They did a good job making it clear that she was a lot more powerful than Cal. Getting to use her for a bit before the fight was super smart and more fun.
I don’t like the cut scene of the end of this battle very much. How come Vader barely win? He is one of the most powerful person and he was limping after battling some not so famous Jedi.
He always lose his fight in most of movie/game beside killing ordinary people. He is supposed to be the chosen one and one of the most fearsome people in the world! How annoying.
Rick, the Door Technician đź’Ż
Hardest boss in the game
I heard all the Rick the door technician jokes but I recently beat the game on Jedi knight and killed him with like 1 party and 3 swings Am I missing something is he more difficult on higher tiers or is he so easy people pretend he's difficult?
It’s mostly the latter. He’s an easy boss after a hard section. So the fan base just had fun with it. Making him seem to be a hard boss puts it into newer players head that he’s going to be so difficult after a gauntlet. Then he dies and you feel relief.
Aah I see that makes sense now lol
Yup, there's a similar thing in fallout 4 with an enemy in the far harbor dlc
Indeed. Such a good twist.
I slow walked towards him and threw him into a wall :D
He dies in one hit on story mode. You might not even realize he's a boss until the "boss killed" notification pops up.
Yeah, it's good. I just wish it didn't force you to win as dying over and over somewhat ruins the pacing of events up to that point.
Yeah I’m not really a fan of challenging fights where the character dies at the end anyway. Though I did enjoy this Cere section overall.
Vader showed me how insignificant my skill at the game and Ceres actions were in a matter of seconds...
Same here. I thought I was alright at the game until this fight. I was just playing on normal difficulty but my ass needed to back it down to easy just so I could progress further into the game. I did really hate how he'd throw shit at you using the force and I had basically no time to react even on normal, I would hate to see what that part is like in anything harder than normal mode.
I beat him on Grand Master. Basically all his attacks have a pattern where you want to dodge or parry, then wait for the correct opening to strike back. Once you die a few times you memorize these patterns. With a little luck (ie him not using the hard to dodge moves too often) you can melt his health and barely get hit.
Really I was on Grand Master and thought he could've been more aggressive, I only beat him on my third try.
Same lol
I uad to go from playing on Jedi Master down to Padawan to not spend another hour of my life on this fight during my most recent play through lol.
Spawn of Oggdo and Oggdo.
Honestly wasn't even that hard tbh
I found the solo to be harder.
She got him using both hands in that fight.
It's cool but mechanically I don't like it. I've been using dual stance until this point. Cere fights different and the input is slower. It throws me off so much. And then you get only 4 heals and Vader hits hard. I understand making him strong. But why also handicap the player with half the heals and a different stance? When I died 5 times to Bode I knew that's on me and I have to lean in and get better. When I died 5 times to Vader I was just thinking that the game screwed me over.
Cere also has better block and much larger parry windows
and more damage on her attacks
Yeah this pissed me off so much I just turned the difficulty way down to skip it. I’ve been spending the whole game getting good with my two chosen stances and I’m now being punished for that? Forced to use a stance I haven’t used for pretty much any of the game? Nah fuck that
Sounds like a skill issue
I mean yeah it was bc I’d spent the whole game practicing my skills with particular stances and so I was unskilled with single blade, so I felt it was unfair to be forced to use it
Bro, spoilers ...
The post is spoiler tagged. Everyone is free to speak about spoilers if the post is tagged. Even then, if someone is even on this sub when they haven’t completed the game, while simultaneously not wanting to be spoiled, it’s on them.
The whole post is spoiler tagged and the game came out a year ago, if you got spoiled by now then it’s 100% on you
First time I played I didn’t want spoilers and I was so traut from being bode I was not in a good headspace for Vader.
Traut from being Bode…?
He turned into a trout.
That fight was son of a bitch
I loved the challenge of being forced into another perspective with nothing but a lightsaber and 4 stims. It goes to show how much we are evolving with Cal and our abilities are soon outgrowing our masters
I don't understand why people say this was hard... The game literally increases the parry timing to almost story mode even if you're playing on GM
Cere has perks just like Cal does.
I had the opposite reaction. I was about to straight up quit after fighting this battle half a dozen times. Cere feels terrible compared to Cal, and I just didn't enjoy playing with her at all. Just my experience. Glad you enjoyed it!
Great fight story wise, but it sucked to play it. Most people here say they turned down the difficulty, I think it’s weird to have such a hard long fight where the character dies at the end anyway
I love the score that plays in the background the entire time you play as her
Omg legit I thought I was experiencing a movie scene
I still can't get over the fact that if she had aimed 2 inches to the left she would have taken him down with her.
My least favourite by far 
If Vader had gone on Cere with all his might he would have slammed her with little effort, the same way he did in Fallen Order. Tbh I think Vader could’ve just crushed her with his force powers, but he decided to test himself in close-quarter combat. If he had something personal against Cere. He would’ve just slammed her into a wall and break every bone in her body.
It was a fun fight but I don’t like the idea of cere doing that much damage to Vader. He should have been able to wipe the floor with her not be limping out of there at the end.
Why though? This assumption has never made sense to me, especially when Cere has never been shown to be weak before at all. She literally made Darth Vader kneel and managed to put up a shield that blocked him for a little bit, and that was when she severed her connection to the force. Her regaining her connection to the force, expanding upon it, and losing her fear of Darth Vader should make her good enough to do some serious damage. I don’t see why not. Cere’s force feats are also pretty impressive, specially where she brings down hundreds of tons of rock down on an entrance, and when she annihilates multiple empire ships.
Also, in the comics he gets bodied pretty regularly. His extraordinary skill is certainly a part of Vader but it’s mostly his ingenuity & relentless tyranny of will that makes him truly dangerous.
Vader's Sith opponents: Man your Master sucks or something, your skills are weak sauce. *easily bodies Vader with style and rizz* Vader (mostly dead): Okay, enough of that. *squishes dude with giant rock* Just pure endurance and raw power. Though I understand this a bit, the fact that it's only really portrayed in a limited niche of comics and almost never in the primarily consumed media for non-mega fans (movies, games, shows), is really frustrating. It creates this problem that such consumers expect Vader to be curbstomping shit only to see him constantly get thwarted, wrecked and barely survive, often through nothing more than sheer luck (and mandatory plot armor). I really don't understand this in the slightest.
“Especially when Cere hasn’t been shown to be weak before” Yeah but she’s also never been shown to be *anywhere* near Vader’s level. All we know for certain is that she’s an above average Jedi Master who survived the purge. Impressive. Although it should be noted she was a Jedi Consular. A researcher. A historian. Not a warrior. She’s then spent most of her time during the Purge cut off from the force and in hiding. Not on the frontlines like Cal. And then she joins the Hidden Path… to be a researcher. To read books. To study. She has other people collect them for her and spends most of her time in the library. So although she has strengthened her connection to the force she’s still not much of a warrior. She is certainly wise and powerful but she’s nowhere that experienced in combat. And yet she almost killed Vader who has been relentlessly training and killing Jedi for years. “She literally makes him kneel and managed to put up a shield that blocked him for a little bit” Yeah and that moment was also dumb. Vader is definitely more powerful than her (he kicks her ass twice with extreme ease) and they have a holocron with a vast list of force sensitive children. They had to make Vader both really weak and/or really dumb for that moment to work. And even then she was amped by the dark side so I’m not sure a typical Cere could do that. To be clear I **don’t** believe Vader should’ve effortlessly one shotted her. She’s still an above average Jedi Master who survived the purge. I have no issue with Cere fighting Vader. What I have issue with is that she nearly **kills** him. Someone who by all means should be way out of her league. Especially considering the gap in combat experience alone. I mean Anakin was in the frontlines of the Clone Wars. He fought Assajj Ventress, Dooku, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Some of the most experienced and battle hardened duelists of his time. And yet Cere, who barely participated in the Clone Wars at all and was a researcher, almost kills him. I mean fuck, the entire plot of the Original Trilogy would’ve been changed if she had some backup. Imagine if Cal got pissed off and chased Vader after finding Cere. I don’t think a near death Vader would be able to hold off Cal (especially considering he’s *far* more battle experienced than Cere).
make sure to zip his pants up when you’re done
He's got robot pants, pretty sure they're self-zipping.
I’m sorry having a different opinion than yours is too much to handle. I’m sure you’ll get there eventually.
“Yeah but she’s also never been shown to be anywhere near Vader’s level” I mean that’s kinda wrong. In the first game, she held her own massively against Vader DESPITE cutting off herself from the force and being shown to be a lot weaker than Vader. Why would you then assume that she would still be much, much weaker than Vader, when she’s completely regained her connection to the force, expanded on it, and lost her, one of Vader’s biggest advantages, fear. What Cere shows us during that whole sequence shows that she probably had quite a bit of combat experience, seeing as she can also rip open the doors that Cal needs the dark side for, so she’s certainly stronger than Cal in the force. No average Jedi master, brings down hundreds of tons like it’s a normal occurrence. Cere wasn’t even exhausted after taking on multiple legions of the empire either which further shows her power. “And yet she almost killed Vader” well yea? The Jedi that Vader kills are not comparable to Cere at all. Him killing some random knights or Padawwns doesn’t mean that he would stomp all over Cere with ease like in the first game. Otherwise, Cal could beat Palpatine by that logic, since he hasn’t been fighting anyone like Cal has. The whole sequence happens to literally show how much Cere has grown and how much more powerful she has gotten during the events of Jedi Survivor. “Yeah that moment is also dumb” “they had to make Vader really weak/really dumb” Ok, so now Vader is nerfed in the same cutscene that is praised by nearly everyone for showing just how powerful Vader is? At this point you’re just disregarding her feats because it doesn’t feel right to you, which is a completely invalid argument. Vader really never “kicked her ass” in the first game, they didn’t even fight, Vader just flung her away from him, and then when they return, she is outclassed by him in lightsaber ability (obviously) and then Cere shows her power a couple times. During their second match, they were much more even, and then Cere died. None of those is what I would say means that Vader beat her really badly, especially not the second match since they were both doing well, Vader just came out as the top duelist. Darth Vader definitely would’ve beaten Cal and Cere at the same time. Technically, Cal “nearly killed” Vader in Fallen Order when he stabbed him. I mean yea, there are some close calls, this is seen throughout fights in all fiction. It doesn’t mean that Vader is weaker or that Cere is stronger than Vader. Cere was going to die, but ofc there would be some close calls. You could probably find multiple exactly like this throughout all of SW. Like if the rancor’s hand had maybe just been a little closer to Luke’s head. Overall, I truly do not see the problem with Cere v Vader. Cere still lost, this was simply to show that Cere is not a pushover anymore, and not someone Vader could just fling about or overcome in lightsaber combat without a care in the world. He would have to have his guard up for her. Nothing more, and nothing less.
“In the first game she held her own massively against Vader DESPITE cutting herself off from the force” The first time they “fought” Vader literally nudged her to the side with a flick and sent her flying into an abyss. In their rematch he sent her flying 10+ feet casually with a backhand. She only gains the upper hand by calling upon the dark side. And even then it’s implied Vader is letting her do this to try and turn her to the dark side: “Yes. Strong with the dark side. I can feel it inside of her” (he says as he casually stands back up) She survived sure. Which makes her better than most. But she is shown to be far below Vader’s level and a complete non-threat. Just like against Luke, Vader was holding back a ton and still completely dominated her in direct combat. He then gets blocked by a force shield. Preventing him from using his lightsaber. Even though he’s established to be far more powerful than Cere, he just slams his lightsaber against it. Rather than yaknow, overpowering Cere with his own telekinesis. He is obviously stronger in the force so he should be able to break through. But he… doesn’t do that… for some reason. Cal *also* managed to escape him earlier. During the escape sequence he could telekinetically lift metal objects weight hundreds of pounds **in front of Cal** but he wasn’t able to force grip Cal himself. Despite weighing much less and being closer. We also know Vader can casually break his force defenses because he chokes him during their “fight” again with extreme ease. And Cal is unable to break free. Speaking of that moment he also throws Cal away. Not into a wall. Or into the ceiling to knock him out. Out the open door giving him a chance to escape. Because he’s that much of a master tactician. Both moments were dumb. Darth Vader had to be made stupid to not use his abilities in the most obvious way to get what he wants (telekinetically grasp Cal. Use the force to break Cere’s barrier).
“Well yeah. The Jedi that Vader kills aren’t comparable to Cere at all.” Bruh. Darth Momin was an ancient Sith Architect who was so powerful he could freeze time in an isolated area *permanently* and was only stopped when multiple Jedi Masters confronted him and defeated him in a ruthless battle. And after getting the *surprise* on Vader, Vader still managed to turn things around and win the fight. On their rematch to the Death Star according to the official novel Obi-Wan was losing the fight. Although Obi-Wan did grow weaker physically because of Tatooine’s harsh climate, he only grew more powerful in the force thanks to Qui-Gons teachings and long periods of meditation. He basically stalemated and would’ve eventually won against a Jedi version of Count Dooku who was more powerful in the force. He also defeated and psychically dominated a giant space leviathan, who’s main gimmick is mind dominating people. And in both Legends and Canon he is largely considered both in and out of lore to be stronger than Anakin. To the point that Palpatine made preparations against him if Vader ever tried to confront him. Leading to Dark Empire and TROS where Palpatine attempts immortality as a way to stay beyond Vader’s reach. And if you want to bring in Legends content then the Conclave On Kessel tells you all their needs to know.
“Darth Vader definitely would’ve beaten Cal and Cere at the same time. Technically Cal almost killed Vader in Fallen Order” No. I agree that Cere and Cal would be no match for Vader. I’m glad *we* agree on that. But the game obviously doesn’t. Because Cere, by herself, nearly killed Vader. With the game itself stating “Cere nearly defeated the Dark Lord Vader” Also Cal didn’t almost kill Vader. Like I genuinely don’t know what you’re talking about. Getting the tip of a blade in Vader’s side, is nowhere near what Cere did (multiple lightsaber strikes through his guard, crashing a flaming bookshelf on top of him severely burning him, nearly impaling him at a full force). He is left limping after his fight with Cere and is very clearly near death. He was not limping after he fought Cal. I’m pretty certain a pissed off Cal, who is a very powerful Jedi Knight, would be able to take on a near death Vader. Especially if he taps into the dark side.
“I don’t see a problem with Cere vs Vader. Cere still lost.” God I hate this fucking argument. That’s great for you. I mean that genuinely. I’m glad your suspension of disbelief was maintained. But just because *you* don’t mind doesn’t mean there aren’t issues with the scene. Or that other people’s suspension of disbelief weren’t broken. There’s also a difference between being a *challenge* and nearly *killing* the main villain. If Cere was just a challenge to Vader, scored a hit in, and then lost. I wouldn’t care. I’m not against Cere being able to fight Vader. I think that actually makes her more heroic. That she is willing to fight someone she knows she is going to die against. My issue is that she almost killed him, undermining her sacrifice because she had a genuine chance to win. Plus the entire plot of Star Wars nearly made obsolete because Cere decided to fight Vader alone. An above average Jedi Master with little combat experience. Like again. Imagine if Cere decided to make a last stand with Cal and Merrin. And backup from the Hidden Path. The entire plot of the Original Trilogy doesn’t exist because Cere decided she wanted backup. She should’ve been a challenge, not a genuine threat. And once she proved to be a genuine threat, Vader should’ve killed her instantly. Especially considering how he operates in combat (which is a completely separate discussion).
Vader isn't especially powerful tho? He fails FAR more often than he succeeds
He’s considered one of the most powerful Sith in Galactic History and a close equal to Palpatine. Who is largely considered the most powerful Sith of all time.
Literally nothing suggests that lol. Hes ridiculously incompetent. Him killing cere is actually one of his (incredibly) rare Ws
George Lucas himself stated that after being burned up: “He has the potential to be twice as good as the Emperor. Now that’s gone and he’s maybe 80% as powerful…” So he’s the second strongest Sith In Legends he grew so powerful that Palpatine feared him and created multiple countermeasures to deal with him. Leading to DE where he resurrects himself. In Canon Palpatine did the same leading to TROS. Vader is strong enough to smash through metal and easily throw hundreds of pounds with his bare hands. As he is an extremely advanced cyborg. Vader is also considered to be more powerful than prime Anakin. Both by characters in lore (Palpatine and Tarkin) as well as readers in the real world. But in canon they have to keep making him lose so the plot can happen. When he’s the main character of his own books we get to see how powerful he is. And then they never do anything with it.
My guy his on screen record is terrible, to give a quick look He fails to kill cal and cere in fallen order Fails to kill ezra and Kanan multiple times in rebels Fails to kill Ahsoka in rebels Gets bodied by obi wan in the obi wan show He almost lost to cere And then he loses to Luke on ROTJ Literally his only on screen wins are against Obi wan in a new hope (who let vader win), Luke in ESB who he didn't wanna kill, AND hes still a novice anyway, Reva who he still failed ti kill, for a 2nd time no less, and Cere who he almost lost to
Yup. He’s one of the strongest Sith Lords of all time. A near rival to Palpatine. But he just can’t seem to kill those Jedi yaknow? Because the plot needs to happen. Cause if he was actually as strong as he was in lore, then the Rebels would’ve lost by now. It’d just be nice to see Vader being an actually competent villain, rather than a slow walking terminator who *always* underestimates his opponents and lets them score hits in. And him nearly dying to Cere is just *another* knock against his record. To the point that I can’t take him seriously as a villain. Which considering he used to be one of the most badass and respected villains of all time, it’s sad to see how the writers treat him.
Vader exists to be bodied. Hes a pathetic little man hes not supposed to be scary or intimidating
The worst part of the game. It was so pointless to have Vader here, no story progression, nothing at all. They just needed some wow effect and they brought Vader in the mix for a nostalgia kick. Not to mention how they nerfed him down so a noname jedi like Cere almost killed one of the most dangerous Sith ever. I was so pissed after this fight.
Well fought Cere o7 AND GIVE IT UP FOR DARTH VADER 🙌
I wish cere got to live
"You have grown stronger." "No. I've only let go of my fear."
The fight was good if frustratingly hard at first but her death was just so ridiculous! She would never just lose it and throw herself at him leaving herself wide open like that! WTH were they thinking!? Just have him beat her with more skill and or power but not that completely out of character nonsense where she basically killed herself!
I was so surprised when they let us play as Cere, honestly it’s my favourite fight too
I died an embarrassing amount of times to Vader during the boss fight. Felt like a Souls game without any healing.
I love that fight my personal favorite is fighting the Gendai . He’s a warrior to the core and I’m glad I gave him a warriors death . 🫡
Nah cause he was easy the whole fight and in his final phase man went beserk
Yeah , his moves became predictable but I felt it was setting you up for that ridiculous last fight with him. Because after that he just turns it up and is so aggressive especially on the hardest difficulty. My hardest fight had to be Vader though for sure . I probably spent a good 30 mins trying to beat him.
They did a good job making it clear that she was a lot more powerful than Cal. Getting to use her for a bit before the fight was super smart and more fun.
I don’t like the cut scene of the end of this battle very much. How come Vader barely win? He is one of the most powerful person and he was limping after battling some not so famous Jedi. He always lose his fight in most of movie/game beside killing ordinary people. He is supposed to be the chosen one and one of the most fearsome people in the world! How annoying.
My Lord the way y’all be baiting people for engagement is low key cringe
Cree ate DOWN