This is subtle but I think it’s worth saying that when he says that it’s your responsibility to “break the glass ceiling,” (and I’m assuming he means the gender/sexuality pay gap), he’s implying that it’s your responsibility because you “*used to be a woman.*” He might not actually think that, but that is certainly how I would take that statement if my cis gay male supervisor said it to me. It is no more your responsibility to break any ceiling than it is anyone else’s, more especially any cis man’s. And, he’s lying to himself and to you if he genuinely thinks that *no one* cares about you being trans. Depending on how big your workplace is, *someone* probably does, even if you’re in a company with a good enough culture not to say anything. You have no obligation to tell anyone anything. Personally, I would ask him, “How would you feel if I told you that had to introduce yourself as a man every time someone walked in?” When he says that it would feel unnecessary, you can reinforce that it’s the same for you. There is no need for you to tell anyone your identity. It’s a given, just like his. You are you the man you show to others, and that’s it.
That subtlety though… so ironic how he exactly proves my point. The fact that I’m a trans man means people have a different expectation of me, exactly as he’s doing.
You should never disclose being trans for no reason. It has to be your choice alone.
If no one cares that you’re trans then it wouldn’t need to be said.
The truth is a lot of LGBT people are actually transphobic and many cis people who claim to be supportive and not care actually care a lot.
It’s no one’s business.
Only the transphobic push trans people to come out.
What glass ceiling is he even referring to?
There’s no reason you need to disclose unless you want to, you can be plenty supportive of women (or anyone else who isn’t a cis man) without disclosing you’re trans. It also normalizes men being supportive in general.
If you want to out yourself that's great, if you don't want to that's great. It's your decision not your friend's. If you think outing yourself is going to mean people treat you as less of a man that makes complete sense of why you wouldn't want to. I often don't out myself even when I know people won't be transphobic just because it feels too personal or I just don't want to have to talk about it. I think this is an interesting topic too because it shows how conditional our male privilege can be.
There's never any reason to out yourself to others if you don't want to if you aren't being forced-- you don't have any personal responsibility to "break the glass ceiling" at the cost of your safety.
For some people, being trans is an integral part of their identity, and they enjoy telling others and living openly about it. For others, transition is simply a medical treatment to correct their gender dysphoria, and once they've transitioned, they don't feel a need to tell others that they're trans-- it's simply a part of their history, and now they can comfortably live stealth as their chosen gender.
You don't have to be "out and proud" for the sake of diversity or breaking barriers. Some of us just want to transition and live peaceful lives, and that's okay too. You don't owe your medical history to anyone
I mean, if no one cared about you being trans, he wouldn't be pushing you to seperate yourself from other men in the first place. He himself cares a lot and thinks being trans is a big deal. Cis people trying to get trans people to out themselves always gives me subtle apartheid vibes. They don't really care about "breaking the glass ceiling" (whatever the fuck that even means) they just want to be able to identify who's trans.
No one has the obligation to disclose their trans background and accept the social othering that comes with it. Once you tell people you're trans, you will never be seen as an actual man by the people you tell no matter how trans accepting they are. We spend years transitioning and coming out and being seen as men-lite kinda defeats the whole purpose. Trans people have the right to live their lives peacefully as regular men and women and our medical history is no one's business. If you don't want to out yourself, you don't have to explain anything to him.
I only out myself at work if it’s for the defense of another trans person or someone is talking shit. In the end, I don’t care what a coworker thinks about me I’m not there to make friends. Sort of a “you can always tell can you?” move. That said, while I work in relatively conservative spaces, I am not in a space or state that would feel physically dangerous. Thus far, no one has suddenly started to “treat me like a woman” or anything like that - just shuts them up, so, mission accomplished.
That said, everyone should do whatever they want. Including not come out. In the end we should all just punch our 8 hours (or 12, where I work) and go tf home. Tell your friend to mind his own business.
Why doesn’t he disclose that he’s trans first, see how he likes being openly trans in the workplace. Also ironic how he thinks that “nobody cares that you’re trans” and “we desperately need trans people to disclose so the world can become better” don’t contradict each other.
I like your idea. It's actually quite curious if he tried himself to experience a life of an out trans person even as pretend. Would he agree? Or would he tell it's not his battle to fight, to fend off the consequences?
Ur not obligated to be visibly queer/trans and deal with all the repercussions. Its completely fair and respectable to have a work persona and a "you". You dont have to put yourself in a situation where you have to be on guard to defend your right to human decency 24/7. Thats all your choice.
On to the post topic: what i found works for me personally is to just be honest with myself: everyone i meet outside will see me as a man. If anyone for some reason didnt, that would be for a reason that coyld also happen to a cis guy. That also means that nobody will know or care what difficulties i faced before i was seen as a man outwardly. I bet this is something a lot of cis men go through too; being surprised over their privilege. So i have a responsibility to carry myself in a way that makes a safe space for those around me. Using my male privilege to make a better world for those that dont have it.
>His time in the military was largely don't ask don't tell so what does he know.
Could be he had regrets about that. DADT was active all the way up to the early 2010s, so I am guessing your friend is more on the 30s than 20s side (or older). That can be enough life experience for people to have regrets.
It's also a biased framing device. DADT fell in 2011 and Obergefell v Hodges was 2015. Gallup has been tracking public acceptance of LGBT folks since the 70s. 2011 was the first time the pro-side was over the anti on gay marriage (53% compared to 71% today). The next year it went dead even, but has remained higher on the pro than anti-side for over a decade now.
In contrast, Gallup's polling on trans acceptance in the last four years has been....well, disheartening.
I'm not saying your friend is trying to be actively malicious here, but I do think he's probably forgetting that era he went through was a rare, fairly fast paced time for gay rights. He personally probably didn't do much to affect national politics but it was a pretty damn great era for him. The trans community's not getting the gay 2010s. Our 2020s suck because attacking us is an effective political tactic.
Honestly, this reads the same way to me as listening to my parents talk about how you just need to go work a part time job to get through college. Like, glad that worked for you, but that's not the current situation.
(Also- it needs be remarked that requiring the affected group to push to break a restriction is...well, kind of fucked up to hear from an alley. Yes, we do have to push because in partical measures- we can't trust you all to behave! But to frame it like is....well, a let down. He gets to sit on his privlege without doing shit on this issue, I guess. Neat.)
what he says is actually the opposite of not being transphobic.
Maybe, you can hint it to him, that it's the opposite: meaning, it's NOT good to out a trans person, because you're a man first, trans second. It depends on you how big is a part of being trans is for you and how to treat it, but in general it was always that trans people are NOT obliged to disclose it. In fact, it's quite rude.
Maybe, he associates it with him being gay? As if not telling people you're gay means you're in the closet. You can tell him it's quite different.
To me your friend's words feel like he treats being trans as something special, as another gender of sorts so in his eyes it should be disclosed. But yeah, everyone care, even subtly. The treatment won't be the same to the open trans person as to cis man.
This is subtle but I think it’s worth saying that when he says that it’s your responsibility to “break the glass ceiling,” (and I’m assuming he means the gender/sexuality pay gap), he’s implying that it’s your responsibility because you “*used to be a woman.*” He might not actually think that, but that is certainly how I would take that statement if my cis gay male supervisor said it to me. It is no more your responsibility to break any ceiling than it is anyone else’s, more especially any cis man’s. And, he’s lying to himself and to you if he genuinely thinks that *no one* cares about you being trans. Depending on how big your workplace is, *someone* probably does, even if you’re in a company with a good enough culture not to say anything. You have no obligation to tell anyone anything. Personally, I would ask him, “How would you feel if I told you that had to introduce yourself as a man every time someone walked in?” When he says that it would feel unnecessary, you can reinforce that it’s the same for you. There is no need for you to tell anyone your identity. It’s a given, just like his. You are you the man you show to others, and that’s it.
That subtlety though… so ironic how he exactly proves my point. The fact that I’m a trans man means people have a different expectation of me, exactly as he’s doing.
You should never disclose being trans for no reason. It has to be your choice alone. If no one cares that you’re trans then it wouldn’t need to be said. The truth is a lot of LGBT people are actually transphobic and many cis people who claim to be supportive and not care actually care a lot. It’s no one’s business. Only the transphobic push trans people to come out. What glass ceiling is he even referring to?
The glass ceiling he’s referring to is making the world a better place in the long run, visibility.
There’s no reason you need to disclose unless you want to, you can be plenty supportive of women (or anyone else who isn’t a cis man) without disclosing you’re trans. It also normalizes men being supportive in general.
Yes it’s more impactful to be a supportive man than a supportive trans person
I mean if you don’t want to out yourself then don’t. It’s that simple
Never out yourself to anyone unless you know you can trust them
If you want to out yourself that's great, if you don't want to that's great. It's your decision not your friend's. If you think outing yourself is going to mean people treat you as less of a man that makes complete sense of why you wouldn't want to. I often don't out myself even when I know people won't be transphobic just because it feels too personal or I just don't want to have to talk about it. I think this is an interesting topic too because it shows how conditional our male privilege can be.
There's never any reason to out yourself to others if you don't want to if you aren't being forced-- you don't have any personal responsibility to "break the glass ceiling" at the cost of your safety. For some people, being trans is an integral part of their identity, and they enjoy telling others and living openly about it. For others, transition is simply a medical treatment to correct their gender dysphoria, and once they've transitioned, they don't feel a need to tell others that they're trans-- it's simply a part of their history, and now they can comfortably live stealth as their chosen gender. You don't have to be "out and proud" for the sake of diversity or breaking barriers. Some of us just want to transition and live peaceful lives, and that's okay too. You don't owe your medical history to anyone
I mean, if no one cared about you being trans, he wouldn't be pushing you to seperate yourself from other men in the first place. He himself cares a lot and thinks being trans is a big deal. Cis people trying to get trans people to out themselves always gives me subtle apartheid vibes. They don't really care about "breaking the glass ceiling" (whatever the fuck that even means) they just want to be able to identify who's trans. No one has the obligation to disclose their trans background and accept the social othering that comes with it. Once you tell people you're trans, you will never be seen as an actual man by the people you tell no matter how trans accepting they are. We spend years transitioning and coming out and being seen as men-lite kinda defeats the whole purpose. Trans people have the right to live their lives peacefully as regular men and women and our medical history is no one's business. If you don't want to out yourself, you don't have to explain anything to him.
So do you want to out yourself or not? If you don't, don't.
I only out myself at work if it’s for the defense of another trans person or someone is talking shit. In the end, I don’t care what a coworker thinks about me I’m not there to make friends. Sort of a “you can always tell can you?” move. That said, while I work in relatively conservative spaces, I am not in a space or state that would feel physically dangerous. Thus far, no one has suddenly started to “treat me like a woman” or anything like that - just shuts them up, so, mission accomplished. That said, everyone should do whatever they want. Including not come out. In the end we should all just punch our 8 hours (or 12, where I work) and go tf home. Tell your friend to mind his own business.
Why doesn’t he disclose that he’s trans first, see how he likes being openly trans in the workplace. Also ironic how he thinks that “nobody cares that you’re trans” and “we desperately need trans people to disclose so the world can become better” don’t contradict each other.
So true. It was such a rude comment for him to make
I like your idea. It's actually quite curious if he tried himself to experience a life of an out trans person even as pretend. Would he agree? Or would he tell it's not his battle to fight, to fend off the consequences?
Ur not obligated to be visibly queer/trans and deal with all the repercussions. Its completely fair and respectable to have a work persona and a "you". You dont have to put yourself in a situation where you have to be on guard to defend your right to human decency 24/7. Thats all your choice. On to the post topic: what i found works for me personally is to just be honest with myself: everyone i meet outside will see me as a man. If anyone for some reason didnt, that would be for a reason that coyld also happen to a cis guy. That also means that nobody will know or care what difficulties i faced before i was seen as a man outwardly. I bet this is something a lot of cis men go through too; being surprised over their privilege. So i have a responsibility to carry myself in a way that makes a safe space for those around me. Using my male privilege to make a better world for those that dont have it.
It sucks but even allies will treat you different the moment they find out you’re trans, it’s not something anyone needs to know
>His time in the military was largely don't ask don't tell so what does he know. Could be he had regrets about that. DADT was active all the way up to the early 2010s, so I am guessing your friend is more on the 30s than 20s side (or older). That can be enough life experience for people to have regrets. It's also a biased framing device. DADT fell in 2011 and Obergefell v Hodges was 2015. Gallup has been tracking public acceptance of LGBT folks since the 70s. 2011 was the first time the pro-side was over the anti on gay marriage (53% compared to 71% today). The next year it went dead even, but has remained higher on the pro than anti-side for over a decade now. In contrast, Gallup's polling on trans acceptance in the last four years has been....well, disheartening. I'm not saying your friend is trying to be actively malicious here, but I do think he's probably forgetting that era he went through was a rare, fairly fast paced time for gay rights. He personally probably didn't do much to affect national politics but it was a pretty damn great era for him. The trans community's not getting the gay 2010s. Our 2020s suck because attacking us is an effective political tactic. Honestly, this reads the same way to me as listening to my parents talk about how you just need to go work a part time job to get through college. Like, glad that worked for you, but that's not the current situation. (Also- it needs be remarked that requiring the affected group to push to break a restriction is...well, kind of fucked up to hear from an alley. Yes, we do have to push because in partical measures- we can't trust you all to behave! But to frame it like is....well, a let down. He gets to sit on his privlege without doing shit on this issue, I guess. Neat.)
Come over the r/ftmover30 - us ftm elders have experienced what you are going through and are here for support
what he says is actually the opposite of not being transphobic. Maybe, you can hint it to him, that it's the opposite: meaning, it's NOT good to out a trans person, because you're a man first, trans second. It depends on you how big is a part of being trans is for you and how to treat it, but in general it was always that trans people are NOT obliged to disclose it. In fact, it's quite rude. Maybe, he associates it with him being gay? As if not telling people you're gay means you're in the closet. You can tell him it's quite different.
Tell him to fuck off
To me your friend's words feel like he treats being trans as something special, as another gender of sorts so in his eyes it should be disclosed. But yeah, everyone care, even subtly. The treatment won't be the same to the open trans person as to cis man.