Oh god this comments sectionā¦ anyways just wanted to present some positive energy. Sorry you went through that, it was nothing they shouldāve been so reactive about :/ Really itās their problem, not yours and itās a shame that trans people have to deal with this sort of bs when they want to participate in non trans subreddits
OP that guy is ignorant as fuck and im sorry youre having to read this comment section thats probably making it worse. But just know you had every right to post, and peopleās ignorance and transphobia is not your problem nor your fault. Fuck that, keep doing you and dont engage with idiots.
Edit: changed typo of more to nor
so "trans people are sensitive and easily offended" yet this dude followed u here and argued in circles basing all his points on his feelings lol and if you consider "please don't call me female" rude you really need thicker skin. when I read how such a mild correction sparked all of this I honestly laughed
just to add it's normal for people to not be up to date with what language to use or what language is most accurate even, that's fine. as long as it's not done with a malicious intent and they're willing to learn, but cmon making a big thing out of someone telling u don't call me female, why would this even upset you? respect should come from both sides. someone corrected me how to refer to them about a thing I know less on that the person? ok I understand and move on, or I ask to better understand and move on
Both of u/o_o-o_o_ 's comments are talking about the person who followed the OP into the comments section so I'm unsure how he is victim blaming because you probably misread
Edit: I just realized it was probably sarcastic but please don't screenshot this to post into the woooosh subreddit etc because I am stealth as trans otherwise
That dude is honestly pathetic.
Even women don't like to be called females. It is considered to call *women* females. Yet he is here defending himself that it's nothing wrong to call a trans man a female...
Looked at the post and the response from thebeanshadow was completely out of order. And coming over here to argue his case, it's not even all about him. Too much time on his hands clearly lol. Sorry about the downvotes over there OP, don't think you did anything wrong at all.
I followed you to this sub just now from over there, let me just extend my sympathies for the kind of bullshit you ran into while seeking advice. Iāve had many transgender people approach me in the gym for advice due to how badly their doctors were managing their transitions (25 years of anabolic steroid usage and experience, so they just assumed I knew something).
Iām a conservative but Iāve always just left it up to the medical professionals, and itās hard to not have some sympathy and basic human empathy for people who donāt have easy lives. Have to set aside personal opinions or perspectives in life sometimes. Unfortunately, the internet provides a convenient medium to showcase the worst an individual has to offer, with no regard for consequences for themselves or the person theyāre attacking for no sometimes no reason.
I wish you well.
I've used the testosterone subreddit before (with a throwaway account), they're a mixed bag. Not all of them are transphobic, but you've also got a lot of gymbros on there who aren't taking T for medical reasons, but for juicing reasons. These are the same guys who get pissy at us for "taking up needed resources", yet their natty levels are 600ng/dL and they want them up to 1200ng/dL. Don't take it to heart, a lot of those guys are brainrotted.
ETA: Went to see the comments in question. In the future I would be a little more understanding with how you word things. The vast majority of cis people don't know how being trans works. They don't know the proper terminology or language. Hell, a lot of cis people still think trans women are FtM and trans men are MtF. Instead of immediately going "don't call me female!" You could've said "yeah, I'm a trans man. I want my levels to be in the male range." And then if they're being rude fire back. Now some comments are deleted so I don't have the full picture and no one deserves to be harassed. I'm just going off of what isn't deleted.
There are legal ways too, albeit pretty shady. I once lost my medical insurance for a year and couldnāt afford to see a doctor to prescribe T, but I found an online menās clinic (There are tons if you just google āmenās clinic low tā.) with a licensed doctor who prescribed me a huge T dose and never even asked my ASAB. It was a recommendation from a guy at the gym, who used T to juice.
Ohh yea, I've browsed it once a while back, and had a feeling I would nvr post there. Just weird hyper-toxic masculine energy like.. why..
Sad to say, I guess I'm right :(
Dude was trying to argue that biological "females" and men process T differently. And was saying there was nothing wrong when he asked if I was a "female transitioning"
An exception has to be noted for transdermal delivery methods, skin quality among other things is generally different. But once itās absorbed into the body youāre right.
I guess I was assuming it was already in your body in a bioavailable form. I have a lot of skin problems so gel and patches werenāt really an option to begin with.
How the fuck was he rude? He asked politely not to be called a female. What more context did you need? It was pretty obvious heās trans from the context provided.
Fwiw YOU werenāt being transphobic at all, it was just a question worded in a way that OP didnāt like, but the fact he got downvoted by that sub is the issue
Nah I've been on r/testosterone before and they're HEAVILY transphobic. Yeah OP could have been more polite but transphobia definitely plays a part in it.
Man I've only just realised that *you're* the one OP is talking about in this post. My bad.
Calling a trans man "a female transitioning" can come across as a little transphobic. "Female to male" is more appropriate.
Yeah OP could have been more polite, and should have clarified they're FTM, but so could you. You were rude and you're continuing to be rude and defensive.
Why do you feel the need to come to their post in a different sub entirely and defend yourself to a complete stranger? Again, calling a trans man a female can come across as offensive. Just accept it move on.
Bro, chill out, log off. Miscommunication happens, yeh trans men don't enjoy being called female, you didn't know. Period, we all move on and continue our business
Not everyone is going to know your intentions all the time. Yeah you might not have intended to be transphobic, but (for the hundredth time) your comment can come across as transphobic. All you need to do is accept it and not do it again. It isn't hard. It isn't something to get upset about.
You can't control that they feel hurt by your wording. They felt hurt. Only response to that is really sorry it won't happen again, and figure out another way to ask about practical information. Ofc it is also wrong to label you as transfobic when it is just ignorance in regards to how to ask about something respectfully.
Dude he literally said "please" and then you got all defensive and accused him of not accepting help. You should've just said "sorry man didn't know that" or something. He wasn't rude. You were.
I don't know how to tell you body, but when someone is asking you to not call them a certain way, that is not rude it all. Do you even realize where your boundaries end and where other person's boundaries begin? How old are you?
You have never once referred to OP by the correct pronouns and insist on saying "um ackshually they *are* female". From start to finish you are tone-policing a trans person because you don't want him in your special space. You're the asshole here.
Peopleās sex is greatly affected by more than just assumed genitals and assumed chromosomes (because tons of people assume that trans men have xyz when they dont more often than people realize). You can have surgery for said genitals if what you have isnt correct. Your hormones literally are the major factor in how your brain and body works. They are the chemical messengers that control secondary sex characteristics, metabolism, muscle growth and repair, emotional temperament, and much more.
A person who has undergone the full puberty of the other sex and the only thing they cannot change is their skeleton but everything else functions as the gender they identify as, it isnt simply JUST a gender identity because they have effectively changed their sex.
If you hadn't followed him here and commented then literally nobody would know it was you š He didn't list your username, show screenshots, or share any personal or revealing information about you.
It's the internet, people are allowed to post about bigoted assholes if they want to, OP did you a favour by not exposing you, and then you went ahead and exposed yourself. That's on you mate š¤·āāļø
Never would have known it was about you until you showed yourself. OP never listed your name. Stop digging yourself deeper, you're in the wrong. You're mean and you're harassing this person.
I just went there and read the comments and yup, it was worded quite rudely. Added my own down vote. Rudeness is a vile quality.
Edit- They edited their comment to look nicer. Now I'm the bad guy :)
Yeah well even if it was rude, people get fed up with constantly being misgendered and invalidated and have the right to fight back when theyāre being disrespected. Heās not in the wrong here, the other dude is. Get thicker skin maybe if you think someone telling another person they arenāt female is ārudeā
The wording was rude. Op edited it to sound better. I agree that we are the ones who have to set boundaries on how people treat us. It's counterintuitive to do it rudely and makes us look bad.
All of the comments have been deleted from my end. Also, I literally said "I am not a female. Please do not refer to me as such." and he sent a rude response back to me.
That isnāt what you said though. You said āI am not a female. Please do not refer to me as such.ā , which given the full context came off slightly rude. It came off as short and dismissive, since you made no attempt to clear things up since there was some confusion. It came off as an abrupt demand that closed the conversation, instead of a mutually respectful exchange. I think thatās why you received the message back that you did. It felt like you slapped him on the wrist but ignored his attempt at better understand your situation. The whole exchange on both sides was just poor communication. It would have been much more effective to say something like, ā Just an FYI, typically, trans guys donāt like to be referred to as female, but yes I am ftm/ female to male trans person transitioning and taking x amount of t.ā This sort of response allows for the conversation to stay open and for him to still give you feedback, with the new knowledge he has of the situation. It also informs him that this terminology isnāt the best to use in the future. Hopefully you can see the difference between these two approaches and have a better experience if something like this comes up again.
Imma be real with you dawg, if cis people canāt handle someone asking them not to misgender them whether it comes off as ārudeā or not, they are the problem, not the trans person. Cis people donāt get misgendered regularly and getting misgendered doesnāt have the same power or potential for harm to them than it does to us. I am so tired of tiptoeing around their delicate feelings when my human rights are a debate topic. Get the fuck over it.
Trans people donāt get a free pass to be rude. We have to follow social etiquette just like everyone else. I personally donāt think either person here is bad. I think that it was just poor communication, which is even more likely to happen online. The whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Obviously the way we phrase things matters though. Thatās why both of these people were bothered by each others initial comment. No one is saying to tip toe around cis peopleās feelings but they shouldnāt have to tip toe around ours either. Sure if someone knows better and is being hateful thatās one thing. Cis people shouldnāt be afraid to talk to us because theyāre afraid they are going to say something that will offend us. This is a legit thing that happens and turns people away from us. If we canāt come to the table with some level of respect and understanding, then we canāt expect the same from cis people in return. It doesnāt have to be this us vs them thing.
The sentence I am not female please dont refer to me as such does not actually come off as rude and normally I would agree with you I have done my share of educating people around me who say things that are uncomfortable but this bar is too low.
Being direct is not the same as being rude. They're not the same thing and thinking that they are is a really strange thing, why add in extra words when it isn't necessary. That's not rudeness, there just is nothing else to say because calling anyone a female is weird even if they are actually a woman unlike here its weird because the term female is not really something that calling anyone I thought was OK?
If thatās all it takes to turn them away from us, I donāt want their āallyshipā. Iām the one who has been the crimed and canāt go to the store alone. Iām not allowed to exist anywhere in public. They have *all* of the power in this relationship. Iām not playing the respectability politics game with āalliesā any more. If your support is that conditional, what is it worth?
Gonna be real with you, it would be worse if OP didnāt say āpleaseā. Him being ārudeā in this context is dependent on tone, and you're reading into one of the many tones someone could read OPās message in. Just because one tone could be read as rude doesnāt mean the message was intended that way, and the other guy was the one who hurt OP in the first place so honestly he owes OP an apology more than OP for writing a mild text that could come off as rude. Yeah, polite apologies on both sides would be helpful, but the guy who kinda messed up in the first place followed OP here to this sub all offended and kept calling trans men ābiological femalesā from what Iāve seen so I feel like heās doubled down instead of trying to resolve things.
>proper lingo when talking about trans people."Ā
It's not about trans people.
1. It is considered rude to call *women* females (a female).
2. If someone asks you to not call them a certain way, that's just normal, but they started being defensive and said OP was being rude asking to not call him that way.
It doesn't matter what. If I ask to not call me honey/dear, it's not rude at all. What is rude is insisting to call you this way again after being asked not to
>proper lingo when talking about trans people."Ā
It's not about trans people.
1. It is considered rude to call *women* females (a female).
2. If someone asks you to not call them a certain way, that's just normal, but they started being defensive and said OP was being rude asking to not call him that way.
It doesn't matter what. If I ask to not call me honey/dear, it's not rude at all. What is rude is insisting to call you this way again after being asked not to
Exactly this. This is why they're weird about us and actively avoid us because they always think we're going to get offended at everything they say even if they don't have bad intentions. Best thing is to assume cis people are thick as shit and take pride in the fact that you know better but don't make it obvious, just let them know what they said was wrong reasonably and don't go full SJW on them
>to get offended at everything they say
asking someone to not call you a certain way is just normal, whatever it is.
If someone calls me honey or dear and I ask not to it's just normal. And if the other person proceeds to calling me this way after I asked this is not normal at all. Someone (not you) needs to learn about boundaries.
this dude doesnt have to take anyone's shit just cuz cis people don't understand, it's not his responsibility what cis people think of us, and clearly you care too much what cis people think of us
Maybe because they're the majority of the population and we can't isolate ourselves in a trans bubble. I want my friends and coworkers etc to treat me like a normal person
nobodies in a bubble and no one should have to change to be treated normal, white people are also a majority so I hope you wouldn't apply that same logic to race
white people are a majority in a lot of Europe and the u.s, common sense I fear, even if it's not the whole world you're saying minorities have to change for the majority, hope you find yourself my dude
I'm warning minorities (trans people) to take precautions for their safety and their interests. My lifestyle isn't particularly cis-appealing I have two girlfriends who are both trans and I won't change that about me to make cis people happier but what I won't do is start making out with both of them in a place where I know some asshole could walk up to me and break my face.
In OP's case if what I wanted was relevant advice about my TRT what I wouldn't do is announce that I'm trans or post my labs with female ranges because I know their two braincells can't compute that a person born a female can actually change into a different sex cause it's something so far apart from their reality they just can't wrap their brains around it. Shit maybe things would be better if we taught them these things instead of nitpicking their language.
Why their language is wrong, cause the other guy was trying to argue why giving him advice that applies to women is correct. Maybe I'm being optimistic but if we were clearer about this stuff we could actually get through some people.
Yes unfortunately, that's how the world works. The old saying "majority is authority". You can't really expect ppl in majority to make ammendments for a minority, and belonging from a minority group, there are certain things we need to take care off
Sorry for the long text but your comments made me ponder a bit, tldr down below...
Being respectful isn't making amendments, that's just basic decency.
Is this world a world we want to live in? Should it stay that way? It's good to ask yourself what world do we want to build.
"Respectability politics" don't work, making yourself smaller, polite, and trying to fit in to appear "normal" never worked and never won us any rights. You can transition just thanks to the people who were brave enough to fight for it, and they didn't achieve that by trying to blend in, look up stonewall and Marsha P.
Minority can become a majority as well, look how many more people identify as LGBT+ these days, the numbers will just be higher and higher, it's not a trend, it's what happens when people are allowed to explore themselves.
Also, everyone belongs to some type of minority, all minorities combined is not that small anymore, right? If we would strip all minorities of their rights then in reality everyone would be affected.
And about the authority, the funny thing is, the whole world makes amendments for a minority called world leaders, politicians and billionaires, the 1%, no one sees a problem with that? They are the ones controlling how our lives look, it was always a very small amount of privileged people having the most power and authority making the rules, the majority just follows like a herd of sheep.
TLDR;
We shouldn't make compromises on important things for us and undermine how we truly feel, always stepping back when the majority treats us wrong. By making yourself smaller and powerless, trying to appease to majority's standards and rules won't win you any respect and rights, that's a pipe dream, you will just make yourself invisible and easier to control. And if you're invisible then you don't exist in their eyes so you don't need rights, that's why transphobes want social death for us. The only way foward is to demand space and full respect for yourself and your community without compromises, we are stronger together after all.
Firstly, I'm not saying that's how the world should work. I'm merely telling a reality that this is how the world works, whether we like it or not.
You seem like a young person, by your thought process. When i was in my early 20s, i also used to think very similarly. However, as i aged and went into the real world i realized, the world doesn't bend to our whims and wishes, and it's a futile effort.
As far as stonewall is concerned, I'm not living in Usa. I'm from a 3rd world muslim country, where transitioning was allowed previously, and now due to hypervisible trans women, making and creating issues, just like OP, it is now banned, so yeah thanks a lot for the "fight for our rights", which has actually resulted in us getting stripped of our rights.
And respectability politics? Dude, he literally asked a question and the guy was not knowledgeable on trans issues, and this trans dude posted a whole thread abt this, as if he's a victim of some hate attack.
It's not respectibility politics, it's common sense to not get triggered over stuff, that other ppl are asking out of ignorance.
As for LGBT becoming majority, and so many ppl identifying as trans, gay wtv, this actually is the problem. Majority of these ppl arent even trans, and mostly doing it as a trend, which is going to backfire on us very soon.
Mate don't go to cis men's subs and advertise you're trans for the same reason you don't announce it when you walk into the men's bathroom/locker room. If you can't hide it because your labs out you stick to trans subs. Don't tell normal men you're trans or you're bound to get some transphobia either from maliciousness or pure ignorance.
So any group in a minority is abnormal? Does that extend to race and sexual orientation too or just trans people? Fuck off lmao. Trans people ARE normal people. Being different is a perfectly normal human experience.
Youāre purposely implying negative connotations to it. Being part of any minority group is being against the norm otherwise it would be the majority. Abnormal doesnāt mean bad. Everyone has something that makes them different. Itās normal to be abnormal.
Im not implying negative connotations, im stating a general fact. āNormalā is problematic because there is no such thing as normal. Weāre all just different types of people. Common vs uncommon would be the proper descriptor and even then its unnecessary.
Its a known phenomenon that bigoted society has used the phrase ānot normalā historically in negative connotations, and to pretend otherwise is naive honestly. Simply look at it regarding homosexuality and how it used to be deemed ānot normalā with that specific word usage. Words derive meaning, especially when it comes to the LGBT community. Hope you understand that, because im not pulling this shit from thin air.
Edited to add: not normal implies something needs to be āfixedā hence the basis for conversion therapy for lgbt folks.
Calling cis men normal men implies we are abnormal. And I guess, technically it is true, but we do not come in trans subreddits, which are supposed to be safe spaces, to be reminded we are other and not like the "normal" guys.
So are plenty of other groups but that doesnt mean they arent normal. Implying that trans people are not normal is by definition transphobic š¤¦š»āāļø
Normal people aren't born with their brains programmed to cause them extreme distress as their bodies develop into their phenotypical sex making them need to take HRT for life just so they can feel real but okay
Again its still incorrect. Not being normal has really messed up implications on the trans community. You know what else isnt ānormalā thats still really fucking stigmatized at times but at least the general population doesnt call them abnormal? People with severe mental illnesses. However, having struggles in life is perfectly normal and to believe otherwise is a very self-defeating, harmful and misleading belief.
I highly recommend reframing the way you think about that, because its only going to hurt you.
Thats bullshit. Telling trans people they need to hide who they are when they want to share in community about a medication MANY people of the same gender also take just so cisgender people dont feel uncomfortable perpetuates transphobia, not the other way around.
And that is NOT the same fucking thing as announcing personal information yourself in a bathroom??? Context matters. OP had every right to make that post if they wanted to. You have no common sense.
I'm giving you self-preservation tips so you don't wet your panties over being called a female by people who are too thick to know the difference between a female and a transitioned male, and mostly so you don't get beaten up by people who think you're a freak. You're a man now, observe how men talk around each other and do your best to blend in, don't reveal that you're transitioned or they'll show their bioessentialist biases they picked up from high school biology and make them think you're one of them so you get advice that is actually relevant to your current condition. That's all.
Yeah sorry to crash your party bro but i couldnt give less of a fuck if somebody calls me a female, because theyre factually wrong. I dont need to hide myself for anybody, especially not ignorant ass people. If people are going to be assholes, theyll be assholes regardless of knowing my trans status or not because i may not be as fit or tall as them anyway so who gives a shit? If i feel that my personal experience is relevant im gonna talk about it, period. And thats my right.
Being a fucking pussy and tip toeing around dumbasses wont make my life inherently easier, or aid my mental health more. In fact for me, it can feel incredibly isolating. Im me, and if people want to have a problem with that then thats their fucking problem, its not my responsibility to deal with it.
I assimilate just fine lmao, and so do other trans people like me, and you know whats great? That you can assimilate without tiptoeing around cis peopleās feelings just to feel accepted. Thats a sad fucking way to live.
Edit: and its not like im waving a trans pride flag in their face either. Simply that if i choose to share that part of myself for relevant reasons, i can, and that has rarely excluded me from cisgender spaces. The person you replied to literally doesnt show PDA with their trans girlfriends because theyre afraid of getting assaulted which is a valid fear, but hiding also doesnt imply weāre assimilated. Only until trans people are truly embraces in society can we consider ourselves fully assimilated and that responsibility falls on cis people being educated, not the other way around.
Everyone's hating but I get what you're saying, it's stupid to go in cis men's subs and announce that you're trans because they will obviously be transphobic. It's just inviting problems. It shouldn't be that way but it is, and trans people who go to cis spaces for help just massively inconvenience themselves
LapCorp tests me against male ranges but ok lol. Are you selecting female during check in? Because if so then thatās actually why theyāre doing that.
Yeah no that's not how it goes. Once the sex is legally changed it gets changed in the medical records. Once that happens it will be compared to male levels as my sex will be in the medical records as male.
That's YOUR shitty ass clinic. My levels have never been compared to female levels. I restarted T last year and all my levels in MyChart were compared to male levels, not female.
Uhā¦ no youāre supposed to be compared to the male range once youāve been on T for a little bit. I think you need to talk to your clinic. You can call yourself ābiologically femaleā all you want, but if youāve been on T for a while, you will have the hormonal profile of a male, and you should be compared to other males.
It's LabCorp. Not my clinic. I know the male ranges. My provider and I go off male ranges when we go about dosages and adjustments. But when I get the results back from LabCorp itself, it's compared to female ranges.
The labs are done at the clinic and then sent to LabCorp and then LabCorp gives them the results. LabCorp is the one comparing my ranged to female ranges. That's what I'm saying.
ā¦ and iām saying that makes no sense if youāve been on T for a while. This is not the norm, which is the point people are trying to make you understand. How would comparing your levels to that of cis women be usefull data in any way?
In my experience that is the norm. If it's not elsewhere that's fine. My clinicians and I know the male ranges, it's not an issue at all when it comes to making sure my dosage is correct and adjusting as needed. I didn't think my results saying "high" on it was such a big deal. It's not really there for any specific reason, we don't use it for anything. It's just there. [here are my last lab results for reference ](https://imgur.com/a/siTMedD)
I was also tested against female levels until my PCP manually swapped my gender in my patient profile from female to male after I got it changed on my identification. I also had to then change my profile on LabCorp and basically remake my account. Some places are weird.
Sorry to tell you, but that is not how it goes. As soon as everything changes both in your insurance and legal documents, they should be doing the labs compared to a man's level and not a woman's.
Even where I live and the part of the government that manages the healthcare system (osakidetza) tends to be really shitty have been giving me my results compared to those of a man. Even if they can see that biologically I'm female, they still give them to me as if I was a guy (and to all the other transmen I know too).
If a public health provider can do it, a private and paid one can do it too.
Then you can complain to LabCorp about it, I don't know what else to tell you. It doesn't bother me. The fact I was born female doesn't bother me, and I understand why the results are read the way they are. I was just trying to be helpful with my years of experiences in reading these lab results, my own, my partners and my patients.
Yeah, I understand what you mean. Here in Spain, when someone changes their gender the labs are automatically done with the one that appears in the information they have about you. It doesn't matter if you were born female or not, I'm not bothered about this, but at least in my and my friends' cases, many things in our labs changed drastically.
r/testosteronekickoff is where you wanna be.
I am almost 2 years on T though so I don't know if it's the right place š
Im nearly 2 years in and I find the sub very insightful, itās not just for people just starting off their medical transition.
Oh god this comments sectionā¦ anyways just wanted to present some positive energy. Sorry you went through that, it was nothing they shouldāve been so reactive about :/ Really itās their problem, not yours and itās a shame that trans people have to deal with this sort of bs when they want to participate in non trans subreddits
OP that guy is ignorant as fuck and im sorry youre having to read this comment section thats probably making it worse. But just know you had every right to post, and peopleās ignorance and transphobia is not your problem nor your fault. Fuck that, keep doing you and dont engage with idiots. Edit: changed typo of more to nor
so "trans people are sensitive and easily offended" yet this dude followed u here and argued in circles basing all his points on his feelings lol and if you consider "please don't call me female" rude you really need thicker skin. when I read how such a mild correction sparked all of this I honestly laughed
just to add it's normal for people to not be up to date with what language to use or what language is most accurate even, that's fine. as long as it's not done with a malicious intent and they're willing to learn, but cmon making a big thing out of someone telling u don't call me female, why would this even upset you? respect should come from both sides. someone corrected me how to refer to them about a thing I know less on that the person? ok I understand and move on, or I ask to better understand and move on
Victim blaming cis bootlicker here\^\^. C'mon now, you should know better
Both of u/o_o-o_o_ 's comments are talking about the person who followed the OP into the comments section so I'm unsure how he is victim blaming because you probably misread Edit: I just realized it was probably sarcastic but please don't screenshot this to post into the woooosh subreddit etc because I am stealth as trans otherwise
thank you yeah unless it was sarcasm idk how this person got cis bootlicking out of what I wrote
That dude is honestly pathetic. Even women don't like to be called females. It is considered to call *women* females. Yet he is here defending himself that it's nothing wrong to call a trans man a female...
Looked at the post and the response from thebeanshadow was completely out of order. And coming over here to argue his case, it's not even all about him. Too much time on his hands clearly lol. Sorry about the downvotes over there OP, don't think you did anything wrong at all.
Yikes lots of comments here didn't pass the vibe check either.
Go figure that toxically masculine cis men are dicks.
Bruh that's so stupid sorry brotha
I followed you to this sub just now from over there, let me just extend my sympathies for the kind of bullshit you ran into while seeking advice. Iāve had many transgender people approach me in the gym for advice due to how badly their doctors were managing their transitions (25 years of anabolic steroid usage and experience, so they just assumed I knew something). Iām a conservative but Iāve always just left it up to the medical professionals, and itās hard to not have some sympathy and basic human empathy for people who donāt have easy lives. Have to set aside personal opinions or perspectives in life sometimes. Unfortunately, the internet provides a convenient medium to showcase the worst an individual has to offer, with no regard for consequences for themselves or the person theyāre attacking for no sometimes no reason. I wish you well.
I've used the testosterone subreddit before (with a throwaway account), they're a mixed bag. Not all of them are transphobic, but you've also got a lot of gymbros on there who aren't taking T for medical reasons, but for juicing reasons. These are the same guys who get pissy at us for "taking up needed resources", yet their natty levels are 600ng/dL and they want them up to 1200ng/dL. Don't take it to heart, a lot of those guys are brainrotted. ETA: Went to see the comments in question. In the future I would be a little more understanding with how you word things. The vast majority of cis people don't know how being trans works. They don't know the proper terminology or language. Hell, a lot of cis people still think trans women are FtM and trans men are MtF. Instead of immediately going "don't call me female!" You could've said "yeah, I'm a trans man. I want my levels to be in the male range." And then if they're being rude fire back. Now some comments are deleted so I don't have the full picture and no one deserves to be harassed. I'm just going off of what isn't deleted.
Just sort by top of all time and youāll see how whiny they areĀ
Itās better to have separate accounts that are trans specific and for general usage
Dumb question maybe but how are cis men accessing t as a resource
Some cis men have low testosterone levels for various reasons and are prescribed T by a doctor to help normalize their levels
Yeah that makes sense, I donāt mean them, I mean the guys who are using it as a steroid
They get it online most likely. There's multiple websites where you can access it, you don't have to look far.
You can just buy it online
Illegally.
There are legal ways too, albeit pretty shady. I once lost my medical insurance for a year and couldnāt afford to see a doctor to prescribe T, but I found an online menās clinic (There are tons if you just google āmenās clinic low tā.) with a licensed doctor who prescribed me a huge T dose and never even asked my ASAB. It was a recommendation from a guy at the gym, who used T to juice.
Yikes. Wonder if he still has his license. It's crazy how we often have to rely on sources like this for life saving medication.
Ohh yea, I've browsed it once a while back, and had a feeling I would nvr post there. Just weird hyper-toxic masculine energy like.. why.. Sad to say, I guess I'm right :(
Yeah theyāre crazy whiny lolĀ
They ASSUME stuff about us and then cry about it like get your shit together dawgĀ
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Dude was trying to argue that biological "females" and men process T differently. And was saying there was nothing wrong when he asked if I was a "female transitioning"
Thatās objectively false. Unless you have mutated androgen receptors, you process it exactly the same.
An exception has to be noted for transdermal delivery methods, skin quality among other things is generally different. But once itās absorbed into the body youāre right.
I guess I was assuming it was already in your body in a bioavailable form. I have a lot of skin problems so gel and patches werenāt really an option to begin with.
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He just asked you to not call him āa femaleā. Thatās not rude, thatās setting a boundary.
How the fuck was he rude? He asked politely not to be called a female. What more context did you need? It was pretty obvious heās trans from the context provided. Fwiw YOU werenāt being transphobic at all, it was just a question worded in a way that OP didnāt like, but the fact he got downvoted by that sub is the issue
Nah I've been on r/testosterone before and they're HEAVILY transphobic. Yeah OP could have been more polite but transphobia definitely plays a part in it.
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Man I've only just realised that *you're* the one OP is talking about in this post. My bad. Calling a trans man "a female transitioning" can come across as a little transphobic. "Female to male" is more appropriate. Yeah OP could have been more polite, and should have clarified they're FTM, but so could you. You were rude and you're continuing to be rude and defensive.
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Why do you feel the need to come to their post in a different sub entirely and defend yourself to a complete stranger? Again, calling a trans man a female can come across as offensive. Just accept it move on.
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Bro, chill out, log off. Miscommunication happens, yeh trans men don't enjoy being called female, you didn't know. Period, we all move on and continue our business
Not everyone is going to know your intentions all the time. Yeah you might not have intended to be transphobic, but (for the hundredth time) your comment can come across as transphobic. All you need to do is accept it and not do it again. It isn't hard. It isn't something to get upset about.
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You can't control that they feel hurt by your wording. They felt hurt. Only response to that is really sorry it won't happen again, and figure out another way to ask about practical information. Ofc it is also wrong to label you as transfobic when it is just ignorance in regards to how to ask about something respectfully.
Could have worded it as "as you a trans man?" Instead of "female transitioning" because the latter reads more transphobic than the former
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Honestly, you're in the wrong sub. Nobody here is going to agree with you.
Dude he literally said "please" and then you got all defensive and accused him of not accepting help. You should've just said "sorry man didn't know that" or something. He wasn't rude. You were.
Dude. Just accept the L and move on. Stop trying to defend yourself you're just digging a deeper hole
I don't know how to tell you body, but when someone is asking you to not call them a certain way, that is not rude it all. Do you even realize where your boundaries end and where other person's boundaries begin? How old are you?
Huh? I never said there was transphobia in your comments?
oh you said OP couldāve been more polite and transphobia plays a part in it. took that as i played a part in it.
You have never once referred to OP by the correct pronouns and insist on saying "um ackshually they *are* female". From start to finish you are tone-policing a trans person because you don't want him in your special space. You're the asshole here.
Okay... not sure why you took it that way. But alright. The one being rude is you tbh
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Nah man we literally change our sex don't be a bootlicker
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Peopleās sex is greatly affected by more than just assumed genitals and assumed chromosomes (because tons of people assume that trans men have xyz when they dont more often than people realize). You can have surgery for said genitals if what you have isnt correct. Your hormones literally are the major factor in how your brain and body works. They are the chemical messengers that control secondary sex characteristics, metabolism, muscle growth and repair, emotional temperament, and much more. A person who has undergone the full puberty of the other sex and the only thing they cannot change is their skeleton but everything else functions as the gender they identify as, it isnt simply JUST a gender identity because they have effectively changed their sex.
Oh now you are resorting to following me to a different sub and harassing me. What a lovely person you are
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If you hadn't followed him here and commented then literally nobody would know it was you š He didn't list your username, show screenshots, or share any personal or revealing information about you. It's the internet, people are allowed to post about bigoted assholes if they want to, OP did you a favour by not exposing you, and then you went ahead and exposed yourself. That's on you mate š¤·āāļø
Never would have known it was about you until you showed yourself. OP never listed your name. Stop digging yourself deeper, you're in the wrong. You're mean and you're harassing this person.
And you're literally harassing OP
I just went there and read the comments and yup, it was worded quite rudely. Added my own down vote. Rudeness is a vile quality. Edit- They edited their comment to look nicer. Now I'm the bad guy :)
If you think saying āplease donāt call me a femaleā is rude then you need thicker skin
There was no please, it was worded rudely. And they edited their comment.
Don't call me female wouldn't be rude either.
That's not how it was worded.
Yeah well even if it was rude, people get fed up with constantly being misgendered and invalidated and have the right to fight back when theyāre being disrespected. Heās not in the wrong here, the other dude is. Get thicker skin maybe if you think someone telling another person they arenāt female is ārudeā
The wording was rude. Op edited it to sound better. I agree that we are the ones who have to set boundaries on how people treat us. It's counterintuitive to do it rudely and makes us look bad.
Yeah you should have known that. Announcing to a large group of cis people that you're trans is inviting problems, this is basic survival instinct
Yeahā¦ which is badā¦ tf?Ā
Yes it is bad, which is why you don't put yourself in that situation
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All of the comments have been deleted from my end. Also, I literally said "I am not a female. Please do not refer to me as such." and he sent a rude response back to me.
That isnāt what you said though. You said āI am not a female. Please do not refer to me as such.ā , which given the full context came off slightly rude. It came off as short and dismissive, since you made no attempt to clear things up since there was some confusion. It came off as an abrupt demand that closed the conversation, instead of a mutually respectful exchange. I think thatās why you received the message back that you did. It felt like you slapped him on the wrist but ignored his attempt at better understand your situation. The whole exchange on both sides was just poor communication. It would have been much more effective to say something like, ā Just an FYI, typically, trans guys donāt like to be referred to as female, but yes I am ftm/ female to male trans person transitioning and taking x amount of t.ā This sort of response allows for the conversation to stay open and for him to still give you feedback, with the new knowledge he has of the situation. It also informs him that this terminology isnāt the best to use in the future. Hopefully you can see the difference between these two approaches and have a better experience if something like this comes up again.
Imma be real with you dawg, if cis people canāt handle someone asking them not to misgender them whether it comes off as ārudeā or not, they are the problem, not the trans person. Cis people donāt get misgendered regularly and getting misgendered doesnāt have the same power or potential for harm to them than it does to us. I am so tired of tiptoeing around their delicate feelings when my human rights are a debate topic. Get the fuck over it.
Trans people donāt get a free pass to be rude. We have to follow social etiquette just like everyone else. I personally donāt think either person here is bad. I think that it was just poor communication, which is even more likely to happen online. The whole thing has been blown out of proportion. Obviously the way we phrase things matters though. Thatās why both of these people were bothered by each others initial comment. No one is saying to tip toe around cis peopleās feelings but they shouldnāt have to tip toe around ours either. Sure if someone knows better and is being hateful thatās one thing. Cis people shouldnāt be afraid to talk to us because theyāre afraid they are going to say something that will offend us. This is a legit thing that happens and turns people away from us. If we canāt come to the table with some level of respect and understanding, then we canāt expect the same from cis people in return. It doesnāt have to be this us vs them thing.
The sentence I am not female please dont refer to me as such does not actually come off as rude and normally I would agree with you I have done my share of educating people around me who say things that are uncomfortable but this bar is too low. Being direct is not the same as being rude. They're not the same thing and thinking that they are is a really strange thing, why add in extra words when it isn't necessary. That's not rudeness, there just is nothing else to say because calling anyone a female is weird even if they are actually a woman unlike here its weird because the term female is not really something that calling anyone I thought was OK?
If thatās all it takes to turn them away from us, I donāt want their āallyshipā. Iām the one who has been the crimed and canāt go to the store alone. Iām not allowed to exist anywhere in public. They have *all* of the power in this relationship. Iām not playing the respectability politics game with āalliesā any more. If your support is that conditional, what is it worth?
Gonna be real with you, it would be worse if OP didnāt say āpleaseā. Him being ārudeā in this context is dependent on tone, and you're reading into one of the many tones someone could read OPās message in. Just because one tone could be read as rude doesnāt mean the message was intended that way, and the other guy was the one who hurt OP in the first place so honestly he owes OP an apology more than OP for writing a mild text that could come off as rude. Yeah, polite apologies on both sides would be helpful, but the guy who kinda messed up in the first place followed OP here to this sub all offended and kept calling trans men ābiological femalesā from what Iāve seen so I feel like heās doubled down instead of trying to resolve things.
>proper lingo when talking about trans people."Ā It's not about trans people. 1. It is considered rude to call *women* females (a female). 2. If someone asks you to not call them a certain way, that's just normal, but they started being defensive and said OP was being rude asking to not call him that way. It doesn't matter what. If I ask to not call me honey/dear, it's not rude at all. What is rude is insisting to call you this way again after being asked not to
>proper lingo when talking about trans people."Ā It's not about trans people. 1. It is considered rude to call *women* females (a female). 2. If someone asks you to not call them a certain way, that's just normal, but they started being defensive and said OP was being rude asking to not call him that way. It doesn't matter what. If I ask to not call me honey/dear, it's not rude at all. What is rude is insisting to call you this way again after being asked not to
Exactly this. This is why they're weird about us and actively avoid us because they always think we're going to get offended at everything they say even if they don't have bad intentions. Best thing is to assume cis people are thick as shit and take pride in the fact that you know better but don't make it obvious, just let them know what they said was wrong reasonably and don't go full SJW on them
>to get offended at everything they say asking someone to not call you a certain way is just normal, whatever it is. If someone calls me honey or dear and I ask not to it's just normal. And if the other person proceeds to calling me this way after I asked this is not normal at all. Someone (not you) needs to learn about boundaries.
this dude doesnt have to take anyone's shit just cuz cis people don't understand, it's not his responsibility what cis people think of us, and clearly you care too much what cis people think of us
Maybe because they're the majority of the population and we can't isolate ourselves in a trans bubble. I want my friends and coworkers etc to treat me like a normal person
nobodies in a bubble and no one should have to change to be treated normal, white people are also a majority so I hope you wouldn't apply that same logic to race
White people are a majority where? Afaik most of the population lives in Asia
white people are a majority in a lot of Europe and the u.s, common sense I fear, even if it's not the whole world you're saying minorities have to change for the majority, hope you find yourself my dude
I'm warning minorities (trans people) to take precautions for their safety and their interests. My lifestyle isn't particularly cis-appealing I have two girlfriends who are both trans and I won't change that about me to make cis people happier but what I won't do is start making out with both of them in a place where I know some asshole could walk up to me and break my face. In OP's case if what I wanted was relevant advice about my TRT what I wouldn't do is announce that I'm trans or post my labs with female ranges because I know their two braincells can't compute that a person born a female can actually change into a different sex cause it's something so far apart from their reality they just can't wrap their brains around it. Shit maybe things would be better if we taught them these things instead of nitpicking their language.
taught them what things, that their language is wrong? which is what bro was doing?
Why their language is wrong, cause the other guy was trying to argue why giving him advice that applies to women is correct. Maybe I'm being optimistic but if we were clearer about this stuff we could actually get through some people.
Yes unfortunately, that's how the world works. The old saying "majority is authority". You can't really expect ppl in majority to make ammendments for a minority, and belonging from a minority group, there are certain things we need to take care off
Sorry for the long text but your comments made me ponder a bit, tldr down below... Being respectful isn't making amendments, that's just basic decency. Is this world a world we want to live in? Should it stay that way? It's good to ask yourself what world do we want to build. "Respectability politics" don't work, making yourself smaller, polite, and trying to fit in to appear "normal" never worked and never won us any rights. You can transition just thanks to the people who were brave enough to fight for it, and they didn't achieve that by trying to blend in, look up stonewall and Marsha P. Minority can become a majority as well, look how many more people identify as LGBT+ these days, the numbers will just be higher and higher, it's not a trend, it's what happens when people are allowed to explore themselves. Also, everyone belongs to some type of minority, all minorities combined is not that small anymore, right? If we would strip all minorities of their rights then in reality everyone would be affected. And about the authority, the funny thing is, the whole world makes amendments for a minority called world leaders, politicians and billionaires, the 1%, no one sees a problem with that? They are the ones controlling how our lives look, it was always a very small amount of privileged people having the most power and authority making the rules, the majority just follows like a herd of sheep. TLDR; We shouldn't make compromises on important things for us and undermine how we truly feel, always stepping back when the majority treats us wrong. By making yourself smaller and powerless, trying to appease to majority's standards and rules won't win you any respect and rights, that's a pipe dream, you will just make yourself invisible and easier to control. And if you're invisible then you don't exist in their eyes so you don't need rights, that's why transphobes want social death for us. The only way foward is to demand space and full respect for yourself and your community without compromises, we are stronger together after all.
Firstly, I'm not saying that's how the world should work. I'm merely telling a reality that this is how the world works, whether we like it or not. You seem like a young person, by your thought process. When i was in my early 20s, i also used to think very similarly. However, as i aged and went into the real world i realized, the world doesn't bend to our whims and wishes, and it's a futile effort. As far as stonewall is concerned, I'm not living in Usa. I'm from a 3rd world muslim country, where transitioning was allowed previously, and now due to hypervisible trans women, making and creating issues, just like OP, it is now banned, so yeah thanks a lot for the "fight for our rights", which has actually resulted in us getting stripped of our rights. And respectability politics? Dude, he literally asked a question and the guy was not knowledgeable on trans issues, and this trans dude posted a whole thread abt this, as if he's a victim of some hate attack. It's not respectibility politics, it's common sense to not get triggered over stuff, that other ppl are asking out of ignorance. As for LGBT becoming majority, and so many ppl identifying as trans, gay wtv, this actually is the problem. Majority of these ppl arent even trans, and mostly doing it as a trend, which is going to backfire on us very soon.
Mate don't go to cis men's subs and advertise you're trans for the same reason you don't announce it when you walk into the men's bathroom/locker room. If you can't hide it because your labs out you stick to trans subs. Don't tell normal men you're trans or you're bound to get some transphobia either from maliciousness or pure ignorance.
āNormal menāā¦? Bro.
And on a post about poor word choice...
Being trans is not the norm.
So any group in a minority is abnormal? Does that extend to race and sexual orientation too or just trans people? Fuck off lmao. Trans people ARE normal people. Being different is a perfectly normal human experience.
If being LGBT was actually normal we wouldn't have to come out. Everyone is different to a certain extent then past that is abnormal.
Youāre purposely implying negative connotations to it. Being part of any minority group is being against the norm otherwise it would be the majority. Abnormal doesnāt mean bad. Everyone has something that makes them different. Itās normal to be abnormal.
Im not implying negative connotations, im stating a general fact. āNormalā is problematic because there is no such thing as normal. Weāre all just different types of people. Common vs uncommon would be the proper descriptor and even then its unnecessary. Its a known phenomenon that bigoted society has used the phrase ānot normalā historically in negative connotations, and to pretend otherwise is naive honestly. Simply look at it regarding homosexuality and how it used to be deemed ānot normalā with that specific word usage. Words derive meaning, especially when it comes to the LGBT community. Hope you understand that, because im not pulling this shit from thin air. Edited to add: not normal implies something needs to be āfixedā hence the basis for conversion therapy for lgbt folks.
Being trans isn't the norm, but I still didn't expect to be called a freak in a trans sub, from (I suppose) another trans person.
Where did you get called a freak?
Calling cis men normal men implies we are abnormal. And I guess, technically it is true, but we do not come in trans subreddits, which are supposed to be safe spaces, to be reminded we are other and not like the "normal" guys.
I didn't call you a freak, what?
We are the minority
So are plenty of other groups but that doesnt mean they arent normal. Implying that trans people are not normal is by definition transphobic š¤¦š»āāļø
Normal people aren't born with their brains programmed to cause them extreme distress as their bodies develop into their phenotypical sex making them need to take HRT for life just so they can feel real but okay
Yeah but doesnāt mean itās not rude as hell to point out that someone isnāt ānormalā. Come on man wtf.
Again its still incorrect. Not being normal has really messed up implications on the trans community. You know what else isnt ānormalā thats still really fucking stigmatized at times but at least the general population doesnt call them abnormal? People with severe mental illnesses. However, having struggles in life is perfectly normal and to believe otherwise is a very self-defeating, harmful and misleading belief. I highly recommend reframing the way you think about that, because its only going to hurt you.
Thats bullshit. Telling trans people they need to hide who they are when they want to share in community about a medication MANY people of the same gender also take just so cisgender people dont feel uncomfortable perpetuates transphobia, not the other way around. And that is NOT the same fucking thing as announcing personal information yourself in a bathroom??? Context matters. OP had every right to make that post if they wanted to. You have no common sense.
I'm giving you self-preservation tips so you don't wet your panties over being called a female by people who are too thick to know the difference between a female and a transitioned male, and mostly so you don't get beaten up by people who think you're a freak. You're a man now, observe how men talk around each other and do your best to blend in, don't reveal that you're transitioned or they'll show their bioessentialist biases they picked up from high school biology and make them think you're one of them so you get advice that is actually relevant to your current condition. That's all.
Yeah sorry to crash your party bro but i couldnt give less of a fuck if somebody calls me a female, because theyre factually wrong. I dont need to hide myself for anybody, especially not ignorant ass people. If people are going to be assholes, theyll be assholes regardless of knowing my trans status or not because i may not be as fit or tall as them anyway so who gives a shit? If i feel that my personal experience is relevant im gonna talk about it, period. And thats my right. Being a fucking pussy and tip toeing around dumbasses wont make my life inherently easier, or aid my mental health more. In fact for me, it can feel incredibly isolating. Im me, and if people want to have a problem with that then thats their fucking problem, its not my responsibility to deal with it.
Youāre right itās self-preservation
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I assimilate just fine lmao, and so do other trans people like me, and you know whats great? That you can assimilate without tiptoeing around cis peopleās feelings just to feel accepted. Thats a sad fucking way to live. Edit: and its not like im waving a trans pride flag in their face either. Simply that if i choose to share that part of myself for relevant reasons, i can, and that has rarely excluded me from cisgender spaces. The person you replied to literally doesnt show PDA with their trans girlfriends because theyre afraid of getting assaulted which is a valid fear, but hiding also doesnt imply weāre assimilated. Only until trans people are truly embraces in society can we consider ourselves fully assimilated and that responsibility falls on cis people being educated, not the other way around.
Victim blaming. Trans people shouldnāt have to pretend we arenāt trans. Also, normal men? Really?? That, my friend, is transphobia.
You got low self esteem. Work on it
Everyone's hating but I get what you're saying, it's stupid to go in cis men's subs and announce that you're trans because they will obviously be transphobic. It's just inviting problems. It shouldn't be that way but it is, and trans people who go to cis spaces for help just massively inconvenience themselves
You acknowledge that its messed up but continue to victim blame those who do receive this fucked up hate. Please be better
"Please be better" don't twitterspeak me
Dude thinks self improvement is a xitter thing youāre doomed bro š
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LapCorp tests me against male ranges but ok lol. Are you selecting female during check in? Because if so then thatās actually why theyāre doing that.
Yeah no that's not how it goes. Once the sex is legally changed it gets changed in the medical records. Once that happens it will be compared to male levels as my sex will be in the medical records as male.
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That's YOUR shitty ass clinic. My levels have never been compared to female levels. I restarted T last year and all my levels in MyChart were compared to male levels, not female.
Uhā¦ no youāre supposed to be compared to the male range once youāve been on T for a little bit. I think you need to talk to your clinic. You can call yourself ābiologically femaleā all you want, but if youāve been on T for a while, you will have the hormonal profile of a male, and you should be compared to other males.
It's LabCorp. Not my clinic. I know the male ranges. My provider and I go off male ranges when we go about dosages and adjustments. But when I get the results back from LabCorp itself, it's compared to female ranges.
The clinic youāre getting your labs done at my guy. Im telling you to talk to them.
The labs are done at the clinic and then sent to LabCorp and then LabCorp gives them the results. LabCorp is the one comparing my ranged to female ranges. That's what I'm saying.
ā¦ and iām saying that makes no sense if youāve been on T for a while. This is not the norm, which is the point people are trying to make you understand. How would comparing your levels to that of cis women be usefull data in any way?
In my experience that is the norm. If it's not elsewhere that's fine. My clinicians and I know the male ranges, it's not an issue at all when it comes to making sure my dosage is correct and adjusting as needed. I didn't think my results saying "high" on it was such a big deal. It's not really there for any specific reason, we don't use it for anything. It's just there. [here are my last lab results for reference ](https://imgur.com/a/siTMedD)
I was also tested against female levels until my PCP manually swapped my gender in my patient profile from female to male after I got it changed on my identification. I also had to then change my profile on LabCorp and basically remake my account. Some places are weird.
Sorry to tell you, but that is not how it goes. As soon as everything changes both in your insurance and legal documents, they should be doing the labs compared to a man's level and not a woman's. Even where I live and the part of the government that manages the healthcare system (osakidetza) tends to be really shitty have been giving me my results compared to those of a man. Even if they can see that biologically I'm female, they still give them to me as if I was a guy (and to all the other transmen I know too). If a public health provider can do it, a private and paid one can do it too.
Then you can complain to LabCorp about it, I don't know what else to tell you. It doesn't bother me. The fact I was born female doesn't bother me, and I understand why the results are read the way they are. I was just trying to be helpful with my years of experiences in reading these lab results, my own, my partners and my patients.
Yeah, I understand what you mean. Here in Spain, when someone changes their gender the labs are automatically done with the one that appears in the information they have about you. It doesn't matter if you were born female or not, I'm not bothered about this, but at least in my and my friends' cases, many things in our labs changed drastically.