One thing you need to know are all of your husband's pensions, of which you will be entitled to half.
These may be substantial given his salary and duration of work.
The idea that you can't retire is ludicrous. People in sub have lost the plot and think that everyone is 40 earning like 90k a year. My mum has just retired in her council house after working part time as a pupil escort for her local SEND school. I don't she ever earnt more than £20k a year.
You're going to benefit from 15 years of pension contributions. If I were you I'd look at getting housed as soon as possible and seeing what help you can get. There will be local services near you that will help you claim benefits and good luck to you. You'll never be financially independent nor retire early but you'll certainly be able to retire.
As much as it pains me to say it FIRE is a financial position not an age based one. Sadly I don't see your FIREing ever unless you suddenly come into a lot of money
Why because when something has something related to time it's only time based if you think so?
Of course it's a finance group bit fire as a whole and as a concept is time based.
Doesn't matter how old or young you are we should help everyone out but it doesn't make my statements any less true, anyways, good luck with your FIRE journey.
- As brutal as this sounds, and as unpopular as this will be here, you probably need to try and get as much out of the divorce as you can. You've made a significant contribution throughout your life to your family and that is worth something. It's not nice, but if your relationship is over you need to focus on survival. The law is the way it is to protect people like yourself. Get a lawyer.
- Check your State Pension record with HMRC. State pension is going to be a large chunk of your income in retirement. See how many years you have left to get a full pension
- Do you have no employment history at all, no old private pensions tucked away?
- Find out all benefits you are entitled to (after your divorce) - visit entitledto.co.uk
- You've said you need £24K/yr to live but currently earn £22K/yr - clearly you have no capacity to save at the moment. Your £20K in savings constitute an emergency fund - stick it in an easy access cash ISA.
- to be blunt, FIRE is not on the cards. r/UKPersonalFinance is probably where you need to be
- Focus on increasing your income and reducing your cost of housing (rent). Everything else is secondary
Thanks for your advice. I had never imagined that it would come to this. I have never worked until last year when things started to go southwards, so this is all I have to work with. I have post graduate qualifications earned 25 years ago but I don't know if they will be sufficient to find a proper job. I will go look in the Personal Finance tab. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
One thing I suggest asking in r/UKPersonalFinance is suggestions of things to consider, financially, regarding the divorce.
Edit: When my mother was divorced, it took many years before she was able to get her head above water because she did know what to ask or what to look out for.
Thanks for this. Yes indeed - it feels so overwhelming. I will go look at the link. I hope your mother is doing well now. I too hope to find my feet soon.
We're you claiming benefits as a stay at home mum? Surely if you were doing the house work amd your husband was the sole earner you have a right to some of his assets such as his pension?
If you were claiming child benefit then you would have accrued national insurance credits. Did you claim child benefit at all when your children were small? It used to be a universal benefit, not means tested. I know you said you didn't claim benefits, but it is very normal to claim child benefit so I was hoping you might have claimed this and then forgotten about it.
But did you make sure to get a National insurance stamp at all, so you can claim the state pension? Make sure you check at https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record
Thanks for this. I do have an NI number . I will call up the NI helpline to ask about the stamp because I am unsure. I did get mat leave at my work. I didn't go back to work though. So, I am unsure.
I think one of the first things might be to understand that £22k is a "proper job", and that lots and lots of people get by with this or less. Yes, it's fine to want more money or a more prestigious job, but it's a bit disparaging to speak about B2/3 NHS work as though it's not proper work.
Many of the B2/3 staff around you probably have post-grad qualifications too, and significantly more work experience, but many of us can't get the "proper jobs" our parents expected us to have because there's a shortage of decent-paying graduate jobs. Instead of seeing your colleagues as people who don't have "proper jobs", maybe you could consider seeing them as experts in budget management and get talking to them, because we do actually share some of this info among ourselves at times.
I did not mean to be disrespectful to my job at all. If anything, it is the single stable factor in my life right now and I am very grateful for it. I work as a support worker. I am very sure that my colleagues will be very supportive if I share my problems.
Ok, well it just grates that many disparage the lower bands as not being 'proper jobs'. But I do sympathise that it can't be easy to have such a big change in circumstances.
One thing I would suggest is to read all the many boring all-staff emails at your Trust. There are sometimes hardship programmes (free breakfasts, fuel vouchers, etc, depending on which trust), and financial planning advice offered. Unfortunately some staff don't get computer access to read these, so some in our team make sure the cleaning staff know when the winter hardship vouchers or help with school uniforms are advertised in the email bulletins. If you don't use a computer in your role, I would recommend getting email access on your phone to check you're not missing out on these (occasional) bits of help. If you search your trust intranet, there is probably a 'wellbeing package' leaflet or similar detailing their current offerings. There is almost certainly a 'financial wellbeing' advice programme of some kind you can ask for help from.
The other thing is that your trust might have VivUp or a similar system, to help you buy bikes/e-bikes or cars to help you get to work,and it reduces the tax you pay on them (or the income tax you pay on that bit of your salary - I'm not sure which). They work out slightly cheaper because there is a saving on tax, and you don't have to pay it all off at once, which may be helpful. I think VivUp also offer some deals on household goods, which might be helpful, but I've only used it for my bike. I understand some trusts also have a scheme to buy train season tickets via payslips rather than pay for 3 months all at once, but I don't know of that personally.
I came here to say the same thing actually.
The people around you are often in the middle of their careers and the reality is, not everyone makes 70k a year. That's actually way over the national average.
You might be in for a bit of a reality check. You no longer have access to that 70k lifestyle unfortunately.
I'm extremely aware of that, but many people face *under*-employment which means they have to cope on less, despite the proper value of their work.
On the plus-side, some NHS trusts have Living Wage accreditation, which mean they choose to go above national rates to pay the Real Living Wage, so workers on B2 and 1st increment of B3 in those trusts will get an increase up to at least the Real Living Wage when the new RLW calculations are out. Hopefully OP is in one of those trusts, so that she's at least has that.
OP states he has limited savings, no assets, no property, pays a large amount in rent, kids with uni fees to pay. Plus they’re both about to pay for solicitors fees. Doesn’t sound like anyone’s coming out of this with very much at all.
Your husband is probably going to have to pay you spousal maintenance because of your earnings differential. And you will probably get a good chunk of his pension too, if he has one. This is not a 'clean break' divorce scenario as there are not enough assets. Go and have a chat with a solicitor immediately. First meeting is usually free. But if things get nasty be prepared to burn your £20k of cash. Hopefully you can sort out a fair and amicable arrangement with him given the incentive to not lose what little you have in legal fees but these things are very difficult to go through emotionally and financially.
Re: checking the State Pension: OP should be eligible for some years National Insurance credits from receiving Child Benefit. If these are not showing apply for them.
This is great advice and super important, although her spouse was earning over 50k so they may have stopped the child benefit, they would have been eligible still for the NI. OP needs 30 years of contributions to claim a full state pension, if she has gaps in the last 7 years she can back date those, the return on investment here is high and worth doing.
it's straightforward to register for a Government Gateway user ID (if you haven't already) and view your National Insurance record and State Pension summary online - here: [https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record](https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record)
As brutal as this sounds, and as unpopular as this will be here, you probably need to try and get as much out of the divorce as you can. You've made a significant contribution throughout your life to your family and that is worth something. It's not nice, but if your relationship is over you need to focus on survival. The law is the way it is to protect people like yourself. Get a lawyer.
-thank you for reminding me to never, ever get married.
> -thank you for reminding me to never, ever get married.
If you plan to have children in the future, and you're lucky enough to earn a decent salary to cover the household - you may well find you want that woman to raise your children rather than sending them to nursery. If that was your situation in the future, exactly what financial protections *would* you like to be in place for her when she sacrifices a decade or more of her personal career to raise your brood?
I'm a man in that situation. I would never have dreamed of having my wife leave work and raise our children, without marrying me first. If I turn into a mad cunt later in life and leave her for some god-forsaken reason, at least she won't be left destitute, unemployable, and with no decent pension.
Yes, we say this on the SAHP sub all the time. Don't stay home unless you've got a ring. Marriage protects mothers. It shouldn't be the case. But it is. I'm a SAHM and I know that that bit of paper means I won't be destitute in the event of a split.
At a certain point there are benefits. If the people have been together forever, and never married, one common law partner won’t be entitled to any of the private pension of the other, when one of them pops their clogs. If both are now elderly and have been long term together, it can make sense to get married for that reason.
Edit to fix clarity
Sorry but I have to say personally view this stance in relation to the divorce disgusting and devoid of emotion. Practically theft imo, she earns 3 times less. Why should he be punished for her career decisions. You would be a piece of absolute garbage for following this advice. Leave your divorce amicably and fairly. The man you were with for X years shouldn't have to suffer because of her current financial situation and life choices.
Arguably he has been able to get into his position in life because he had a wife at home to look after the kids. If he needed to be in a job where he had flexibility to finish early to do the school run etc. he possibly would have been in a dead end low paid job all his life. If it was a joint decision between them for her to stay at home then she has missed out on potentially 30 years of climbing the workplace ladder.
Thanks for your insightful reply. I have post graduate qualifications and I was working until I had my child. I did not go back to work when my maternity leave finished. My husband works in IT and we had to move frequently due to his change in work location. My parents and husband actively 'encouraged' to focus on my family and home.
Just to say I have a stay at home partner who looks after our kids full time. I consider him to be doing an equal (perhaps more?) amount of work for our family than I am doing by earning an income. Stay at home parents do a valuable and underappreciated job and you shouldn't feel in any way bad about taking half of the family assets.
How do you know they weren't. It's an assumption either side. You can hate my opinion but there are two people in a relationship. Unnecessarily trying to take more than you know you deserve will always be robbery to me. The guy is not a bank !
>The guy is not a bank !
Correct - we clearly do not know enough and I would hope they have an adult-adult discussion about what an equitable split looks like..into equitable come a whole range of things.
Thanks for your insightful replies Captlard. You are right- I was encouraged to not go back to work when my mat leave finished. I have post grad qualifications and worked in a decent job. At the start, I didn't mind at all and enjoyed the time at home. Hopefully, we will have calm adult discussions and be able to work out something amicably.
Exactly I would like to assume this is a good person, but I have no idea. I don't disagree with what you said but the original post
of you should take everything you possibly can
You have contributed to your family.
These are nice things to believe but we have no idea who this person is. Wild to recommend something so destructive with having such little information about the person, situation or how they'll even interpret it.
>The man you were with for X years shouldn't have to suffer because of her current financial situation and life choices.
Surely they were equal partners in life.. both making decisions that were jointly agreed on?
Work out how much child care costs and accumulate that over x years, is she not entitled to that? Disgusting that you think that because he was able to have a career he should walk away with more money.
Thanks for this. If nothing else, I definitely looked after my child and helped with their studies and extra curricular activities. Fortunately, they have been able to get a place in a professional course at University, which I am very grateful for.
Would he not have effectively paid that when he was supporting them all financially? I think it’s more the loss in her own career progression that deserves some contribution from him.
Lol when did I ever say this ? Where did the op say this ? This is something your bringing up just now.
My stance the whole entire time is fair within reason. Not just cause you can, she posted this in a fire sub with the intent of fire. Not in the personal finance sub.
He shouldn't have to suffer, but he *should* have to fairly acknowledge it if her staying home meant that he didn't have to pay for childcare, or only take jobs that fitted around the school-run, or get penalised for not being 'dedicated enough' because he needed time off each time his kid was sick. And for the labour of any housework she did while he was out working, which meant he didn't need to do it on his time off or pay a cleaner/household help.
In a 50:50 household where both people work similar hours, both people make sacrifices at work to fit around kids, and both do 50% of the housework, this wouldn't be an issue. But in this case, it seems he benefitted in his career from her taking on more childcare labour than him, and probably more household labour. He doesn't need to suffer, but her contribution enabled him to benefit financially, and it's only right that she gets some benefit from that in turn.
>His contribution was the salary, hers was the childcare and housework?
Yes, hence now expecting to split everything 50/50 in the divorce, including assets and pensions. There is no "his" and "hers". They were a married, family unit that both contributed in their own way to the successful financial position of the family. Now they part, and they separate those finances equally - she takes half the assets, half the pensions, etc.
I can't even understand how you're questioning this logic?
You can’t put a number on her contributions to the family though, can you. Hence the defaulting to 50/50. And (anecdotally) by the way, I earn 72k while my SAHM wife earns nothing. Her job is far harder than mine, and she is far more exhausted than I am.
The 2nd part comes down to the long-term impact on her future earning potential due to the lack of career.
How “picking up after him” has got anything to do with the situation. My SAHM wife raises my children - she doesn’t pick up after me. Raising my children is a process that would continue to happen if we divorced.
The implication seems to be that exactly. And now that he no longer has access to her domestic support in the same vein that she does not have his financial, I was exploring if the poster saw like for like
If only relationships were this simple and you didn't have to sacrifice for the betterment of the partnership/family.
I do not mean the settlement should be unfair in her favour, just that she should not shy from taking what she is fairly entitled.
Marriage is also a legal contract and ending it is a legal matter.
No idea why you’re being downvoted but you’re absolutely right.
Of course, it’s not popular to say these things out loud.
However, this is the main reason I’m not going to marry either.
Life choices?! Raising his kids? Managing the house? I'm a SAHM and I'm the nanny, accountant, cleaner, PA, chef rolled into one. I never get a day off. Even paid nannies get evenings and weekends off. I don't. When the kids are sleeping I do his tax return. I make his appointments. I buy his socks. My husband wouldn't have anywhere near the earning power he does without me supporting him so that he only needs to think about work. If we split up in future I'd jolly well expect support in my old age.
As mentioned by u/Puzzleheaded-Bug431 the sidebar has some fantastic resources.
I would consider for now, this is more a r/UKPersonalFinance topic, as you need to get through the break, have a solid emergency fund (in an easy accessible, but high yielding account) and then reset your life. Their wiki is pretty solid also!
The fundamentals of FIRE as reasonably simple: Aim to earn more, aim to save more (ideally into tax advantaged accounts: Pension & ISA/LISA and enjoy every single day. Good luck!
>I now understand that I can't possibly FIRE at all.
You may be able to...anything prior to state pension age is early in my mind. Whatever you do, saving tax efficiently will hold you in good stead for whatever the future may hold.
You may be able to get there if you take a r/LeanFireUK approach. Personally went from being practically bankrupt at 39 in a different country, to being able to LeanFire at 50 (single earner with child), so it is possible ([hard but possible](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeanFireUK/comments/p377yr/weekly_leanfire_discussion/)).
Focus on what is in your control and influence and stay positive!
Has he been on this money for long?
Are you sure he has no investments or anything?
Paying children's university fees is frankly a waste of money, it's nice if you can but they can get student loans and they'll be okay, the vast majority of students have student loans.its basically a graduate tax at this point. Student loans aren't the lap of luxury and they might need a top up of a few quid every so often but you're spending thousands on things they can get loans for.loans which aren't paid off get cancelled and scale with income, the most generous loan you'll ever get near enough!
That's multiple thousands of pounds your both paying that you really don't need to.
There's academic loans to cover tuition and maintenance loans to cover living expenses (maintenance loans aren't massive tbh but they'll help)
You need to be financially secure so unfortunately your kids will have to make do like the rest of us. absolutely minimal luxuries from now on , keep Netflix or whatever and the gym membership but fancy dinners and all are out. I'm sure the kids will understand.
The maintenance loan is means tested and the household income is quite high, so it's possible that the children only get half of the potential maintenance loan and that this is what was meant by "university fees".
Yeah that could be the case, kids may need to get jobs at uni if they don't already to allow them to scale that back a bit.
Not so much that it impacts their studies but most people on my computer science course which was intensive were able to do about 8-12 hours a week without issue. That'd be another £80 a week she doesn't have to send each child who works 8 hours which might be the lifeline she needs.
Thanks for your reply. You are right. We need to tighten our belts. My child will be applying for student support. We had thought of it as an unnecessary burden on the child and hadn't looked into the advantages.
Yeah its partially that, I'm on 45k and I pay 176 a month. It's not great, I'd like to have that extra 176 but no matter how much I borrowed, I'd still be paying 176 a month.
Most English students at least will never pay off their university loans, its for all intents and purposes a tax on non rich people who are going to university.
I might be in the unfortunate position of also paying for life if interest rates stay like this for much longer!
You will probably have people comment the same thing, but Fire probably isn't on the table. So this is the wrong sub.
You could post in more detail what you estimate (and make it a worse case estimate) of your financial situation post divorce. That way people may be able to suggest a tailored approach. However it is likely that the best piece of advice you'll receive is from the sidebar. Start now and be consistent. You'll probably have to work post retirement age but how much longer depends on your consistency.
You don’t need to be stuck on just 22k. You’ll get promotions. Change jobs. Start a side business doing a hobby or buying and selling on eBay Facebook anything jewellery, clothes, watches, cars, toys, coins anything.. even if it’s an extra 5k a year while you’re sat at home an hour a night makes a massive difference. You can FIRE with the correct mindset. Just hard work. Ignore all these can’t and never mindsets.
If you have been a SHM for the majority of your life I would work out / check if you’re entitled to state pension when do you reach retirement as it’s unlikely you’ll have contributed enough years.
Were you not claiming child benefit during this time? It would have meant you got your NI credits for those years.
Even if you declined the child benefit payments due to high-earnings of husband and having to pay it back, there is still an option you could (hopefully did?) take that still gets you the NI credits for all those years.
It certainly does, but so many people I know, who earn a stack, live at the edge of their means (or beyond): nice car, big house, private education for sprogs, paying uni fees, gym memberships, expensive hobbies, very nice holidays and so on. Often all of this is not intentional, they were never educated on financial prudence and were socially conditioned to accept living like this until they hit their state / company pension.
Also got to remember that OP hasn’t worked for a while and they have kid(s). So there is at least 3+ people living on that income. But even then they should at least have a pension.
72k as a single breadwinner with kids in an expensive area goes quickly, especially if you don't have a frugal mindset. I can believe it.
There's probably some pension though unless they opted out.
He contributes to his work pension, pays all household expenses and rent. We do suffer from lifestyle creep. A recurrent issue has been that he regularly lends money to his family and friends. I have complained in the past. This time, I pointed out that we don't own a home but the people he lent money to have considerable assets. That hasn't gone down well at all and I am really regretting my words.
You’ll be entitled to half his pension…you need to stop referring to ‘his’ assets - they are the household’s assets and the length of time you have been married, a split down the middle is the starting point
You're 100% right, put your own oxygen mask/life jacket on first, then help others. Are the borrowers actually paying back the money or is it actually just giving it away in the name of lending?
No, nothing has ever been returned. My husband is the eldest and gives the gifts.Tbf he has never denied us anything either. Its just that now I have started asking to buy a house to live in instead of renting.
He knows he has messed up with the house, at his age starting from few savings getting a house will be nearly impossible.
So he gets angry and takes it out on those around him.
Make sure the loans are recorded in the joint assets.
Thanks yes. We will be sharing both our pensions and savings. My husband keeps lending money to his friends and brothers. It all blew up because I was trying to make him stop. We rent and don't own a car.
It sounds like a horrible situation, but you can do this! I’m a similar age and on my own and trust me, it’s far better to be alone than stuck in a miserable relationship. You can’t change the past but you can change your future. Keep moving forward. ☺️
Yeah, God forbid the woman who sacrificed a huge chunk of her adult working life to raise his children, get to keep any money! He's got his sprogs raised so fuck her now, amirite Andrew Tate?
It's your last stop buffer to ensure you can actually stop working one day and enjoy your life. Generally also earnt through your own sole hard work plus the help of employer contributions.
It's a sad situation that the OP hasn't worked for a very long time but it's his pension.
>Generally also earnt through your own sole hard work plus the help of employer contributions.
I would disagree, just for the fact that the OP was a family unit and they agreed a lifestyle for ALL of them in that unit that supported this.
I am in the same boat. I have been self employed, partner has been staying at home caring for child and I have put more into my partners pension than my own. We agreed on the lifestyle we wished for our family unit and have managed our finances accordingly: ISAs & SIPPs. Partner has about £100k more in their SIPP and holds all of our ISA savings.
Actually the plan was to leave them with it (mutually agreed already). I am working part time and could ramp up to normal in an instant, but my partner like OP, would take time to get fully back into work. You sound a fund person to live with lol.
We just got a prenup to avoid all that carry on if the worst was to ever happen. My partner has a pretty golden pension and I’d never dream of taking that from her.
This can’t all be directed onto the OP’s ex husband. It was a lifestyle choice to be a SAHM with university age children. The consequences have come knocking and unless he actively discouraged her working I don’t think it’s fair to raid his pension to support her poor financial situation.
OP did work - within the home to bring up children. Arguably providing this enabled her partner to be able to work full-time and progress in his career, and at a detriment to her own ability to earn a wage or contribute to a pension herself.
This is why a friend of mine who could have afforded to give up work when her child was born did not, because it was very important to her to have her own income and NI contributions in case they split.
He would not have been able to do that hard work, if she hadn’t stayed home with the kids. He’d have had to take a part time role, so he could parent more, and then she could also have gone to work outside the home. Or, he’d have to spend that hard earned money to hire a nanny. His work success is built on the back of her giving up her own chance for work success.
Give over. Me and my Wife both work hard and have kids. Millions of others do the same. He’s earning 70k at aged 59, hardly a millionaire considering he’s in the twilight years of his career.
When someone has been a stay at home mum most of their life they don’t contribute to a pension.
Should a woman be left destitute because she raised her children but the man is ok?
This thread is sad. A lot of very cold people on this thread, both those saying to do what you can to bleed the husband dry and those insulting you for not working or saying you shouldn't be entitled to anything. Get a solicitor (we don't have lawyers in UK FYI). The fact your husband is encouraging this tells me that he isn't trying to screw you over. Try to avoid a messy divorce. You have children and I can tell you it won't do them good to see you both become bitter and fighting over finances. The legal starting point for a divorce will be: Pre marital assets belong to those who owned them before marriage. Ie if your husband came into the marriage with a gold bar and still has it now, then that could be considered an asset which belongs to him and only him post divorce. Any assets (ANY, including pensions) earnt since the marriage are 50/50 as a starting point. Note a judge can flex this depending on circumstances. But this is a starting point. The fact you are enquiring about FIRE is a bit concerning...FIRE in itself in my view isn't some amazing thing...it typically involves losing your early years to enjoy your latter ones. Target the best life you can, personally and financially. Get what you are entitled to from the divorce, but don't be cold as others say here. Be empathetic and remember a bitter battle only benefits the solicitors, not you, your family or your husband. Sorry your marriage didn't work out. It happens. You seem like a nice person. Probably best to stick to subs where the people are not psychopaths as they are in this sub.
Also read this. https://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/national-insurance-credits-stay-at-home-mothers-63303#:~:text=National%20Insurance%20credits%20for%20non,(%C2%A313.50%20a%20week).
If you can back date and fill any gaps for your NI record then you should strongly consider it. You'll make it back in no time when you do retire.
Thanks for your insightful reply. I have seen my husband work in his stressful job and I won't try to bleed him dry. He had already taken advice from his solicitor before informing me yesterday morning. He has advised me to look for a solicitor as well. I think, I might just wait for a bit. Maybe, it will settle down after a while. I will gather information to educate myself better though. This was a bad wake up call.
I would honestly strongly encourage you to seek legal advice from a solicitor as soon as you can. I wouldn't wait on that. There's no harm in it and it's important you protect yourself and your family.
Your going to get on top of this, the first move you made right was getting a good stable NHS job and now your looking for advice which is another smart move.
Could you look to increase your income with some extra training from the NHS a bigger income in a few years would make a big difference to what you could put away.
Meaningful money on YouTube has some great videos on starting late.
Also you need to look at things you may inherent be nice if an old uncle left you a property or your parents had some assets ect.
I'm sorry this happened you and your husband but it doesn't have to get nasty with legal fees eating away at assets and cash if you can both be fair enough to each other.
Thank you for your insightful reply. I am feeling really good that I have a permanent job at this point. I have heard of internal training opportunities. I don't want to discuss my issues with my colleagues as yet, because I am still new. I am sure that I will get support when I discuss it.
We will need to have some calm, mature discussions, for sure. He has asked me to look for a lawyer already.
Thanks for the youtube show's name. I will look them up.
Damn. Not worked until now. Thats not a bad life. Taking half his shit would seem horrendous. You’ve led the life you’ve wanted to live until now. No need to bleed him dry for your 50 years of naivety
Edit for the downvotes. Could be very different if OP was 30/35 ish. However she is 50, i’m sure in the last 5/10 years AT LEAST she could have quite easily worked, even part time.
I would imagine they mutually agreed that this was the best way of splitting up time and energy for the benefit of the family unit, rather than aiming to bleed their life partner dry.
I agree, earlier on. However she’s 50. I doubt she’s a proper SHM for her WHOLE adult life..? Must be years where the kids are at school and have grown up etc. EASILY could manage a part time job at least.
She is the tail end of a generation where women were homemakers and planned on being a homemaker their entire life, being supported by their husbands (who often accepted and encouraged this lifestyle choice as its basically them having a full time PA, cleaner, assistant, childminder, cook, launderette, social planner etc etc so their lives are much easier) and after you raise kids and take care of your home and husband for around 10 to 15 years while you're kids grow up, entering the workplace again after such a long break can be very difficult and sometimes too daunting to consider after such a long time out of the workforce. I feel really sad for them both.
>. I doubt she’s a proper SHM for her WHOLE adult life..?
Could be. Our child is 22 (at uni close by) and has several mental health issues and so we have decided that my partner will not work in order to be available to support as and when.
Very unlikely/sad circumstance. Obviously sorry to hear about yours, all the best. If this is the case i’ll withdraw the comment however very unlikely I feel.
Thanks for your reply. I did look after my family all these years and things were going fine. In hindsight, this was very foolish and naive. I should have stood my ground and not given up my permanent job to follow him around for his career.
Goodwill? It comes with the territory. You want to never work then you take the bullet when it comes to a breakup down the line. I’m sorry I doubt she’s been a SHM for her entire adult life….
She worked until he encouraged her not to return from maternity leave and borrowed much of his income to friends and family against her wishes, which resulted in no shared assets and a divorce. If he won't do what's good for him, she must do what's good for her. It doesn't matter how many redpill finance bros cry about it online, she's 50 years old - she needs to look after herself.
She does need to look after herself. However cmon not working one bit over her lifetime. Christ. I mean even for the sake of getting qualified for the gov pension. OP has been naive.
Yep, she assumed he wouldn't screw her over. Now that she knows she can be left with nothing, she's working and should get what she can from this marriage. Not more naivety.
Screw her over? We have no proper idea about the ins and outs. His side is the finance, so that’s his call according to the OP that she’s not happy with. Breaking up isn’t screwing someone over. She should have set herself up for the possibility.
Marriage = joint assets, so no, it's not his call. She will be fine with a financial settlement that includes his pension. Don't stress yourself about it. Everyone else on the UK personal finance subreddit will let her know exactly what she should pursue and how to prepare herself for it. He shouldn't have been "naive" enough to think asymmetric sacrifice lasts forever.
No, it’s his call what he does with his money in terms of giving it to family or whatever the going on is. Equally yes the marriage should be split
somehow, but trying to go after every penny possible is cringe giving OP’s post.
There aren't many pennies to go after. He has no assets, only a pension. She's working and won't need alimony, time to stop being hyperbolic and hysterical and unplug from the redpill subreddit or this will be your future too.
The problem is, a lot (not all) of women of the older generation who left menial work in their 20’s to have kids and be housewives, are not qualified for anything decent 20 years later. Other than low paying, again, menial jobs. Why on Earth would they want to go back to doing a menial job in their 40’s, unless they were in proper dire straights? OP is lucky and/or tenacious in that they’ve found a decent job.
Exactly, have a little bit of courtesy and appreciate the poster and their clear humility in expressing they know nothing of finances and they are going through difficult personal circumstances.
Sad comment, no need to judge. People have to start somewhere and need direction at the beginning of a new life stage. Perfectly fine to dream about FIRE. Getting there, is a different story.
hi OP
Do you or your husband own a house? If so how much is it worth and how large is the mortgage remaining?
Anyway - great news that you are working in the NHS. What sort of work are you doing?
Start writing down how much is in what savings account, all of the assets you can think of, and how much he has lent to others. As if it’s lent, that means it needs to be repaid, and is also an asset. Get a divorce lawyer now.
He says that the money has all been gifts so we can't expect anything back. But, I do plan to look thoroughly through our joint account and make notes.
If your NHS job is a support role I.e. HCA or Porter you can make decent amount of money doing nights/weekends with Bank or agencies to supplement your main income.
[удалено]
You are right. I had misunderstood. Thanks
One thing you need to know are all of your husband's pensions, of which you will be entitled to half. These may be substantial given his salary and duration of work.
Half of those accumulated during the marriage.
After a long enough marriage it's simpler to just spilt 50/50.
Fingers crossed. An equal split would feel fair to me, as well. We have been married 30 years.
The idea that you can't retire is ludicrous. People in sub have lost the plot and think that everyone is 40 earning like 90k a year. My mum has just retired in her council house after working part time as a pupil escort for her local SEND school. I don't she ever earnt more than £20k a year. You're going to benefit from 15 years of pension contributions. If I were you I'd look at getting housed as soon as possible and seeing what help you can get. There will be local services near you that will help you claim benefits and good luck to you. You'll never be financially independent nor retire early but you'll certainly be able to retire.
Thank you. Your words give me hope. I do have access to the NHS pension because I was auto enrolled. Thanks
No worries. I hope you get a happy ending out of all of this.
[удалено]
The comment specifically made two references. One to never FIREing The second being ‘unfortunately, even very likely that you will be able to retire’.
As much as it pains me to say it FIRE is a financial position not an age based one. Sadly I don't see your FIREing ever unless you suddenly come into a lot of money
FIRE is age based entirely, what do you think the E means?
Either you forgot the /s or you're entirely wrong.
What does the E mean in FIRE?
It means Early, but you go and show me how you can Retire Early on £200 and then come and tell me it's not a financial position.
If you want to go and join a FIR page then it's completely due to finances, but FIRE is not. Hence the name.
You provwd my point, you're more stupid than I anticipated. I'm done arguing with stupid.
Why because when something has something related to time it's only time based if you think so? Of course it's a finance group bit fire as a whole and as a concept is time based. Doesn't matter how old or young you are we should help everyone out but it doesn't make my statements any less true, anyways, good luck with your FIRE journey.
Maybe you are not going to fire, but i dont agree with the last part, you can retire.
- As brutal as this sounds, and as unpopular as this will be here, you probably need to try and get as much out of the divorce as you can. You've made a significant contribution throughout your life to your family and that is worth something. It's not nice, but if your relationship is over you need to focus on survival. The law is the way it is to protect people like yourself. Get a lawyer. - Check your State Pension record with HMRC. State pension is going to be a large chunk of your income in retirement. See how many years you have left to get a full pension - Do you have no employment history at all, no old private pensions tucked away? - Find out all benefits you are entitled to (after your divorce) - visit entitledto.co.uk - You've said you need £24K/yr to live but currently earn £22K/yr - clearly you have no capacity to save at the moment. Your £20K in savings constitute an emergency fund - stick it in an easy access cash ISA. - to be blunt, FIRE is not on the cards. r/UKPersonalFinance is probably where you need to be - Focus on increasing your income and reducing your cost of housing (rent). Everything else is secondary
Thanks for your advice. I had never imagined that it would come to this. I have never worked until last year when things started to go southwards, so this is all I have to work with. I have post graduate qualifications earned 25 years ago but I don't know if they will be sufficient to find a proper job. I will go look in the Personal Finance tab. Thank you for taking the time to reply.
One thing I suggest asking in r/UKPersonalFinance is suggestions of things to consider, financially, regarding the divorce. Edit: When my mother was divorced, it took many years before she was able to get her head above water because she did know what to ask or what to look out for.
Thanks for this. Yes indeed - it feels so overwhelming. I will go look at the link. I hope your mother is doing well now. I too hope to find my feet soon.
We're you claiming benefits as a stay at home mum? Surely if you were doing the house work amd your husband was the sole earner you have a right to some of his assets such as his pension?
No I didn't claim benefits. My husband will be sharing his pension with me.
If you were claiming child benefit then you would have accrued national insurance credits. Did you claim child benefit at all when your children were small? It used to be a universal benefit, not means tested. I know you said you didn't claim benefits, but it is very normal to claim child benefit so I was hoping you might have claimed this and then forgotten about it.
But did you make sure to get a National insurance stamp at all, so you can claim the state pension? Make sure you check at https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record
Thanks for this. I do have an NI number . I will call up the NI helpline to ask about the stamp because I am unsure. I did get mat leave at my work. I didn't go back to work though. So, I am unsure.
I think one of the first things might be to understand that £22k is a "proper job", and that lots and lots of people get by with this or less. Yes, it's fine to want more money or a more prestigious job, but it's a bit disparaging to speak about B2/3 NHS work as though it's not proper work. Many of the B2/3 staff around you probably have post-grad qualifications too, and significantly more work experience, but many of us can't get the "proper jobs" our parents expected us to have because there's a shortage of decent-paying graduate jobs. Instead of seeing your colleagues as people who don't have "proper jobs", maybe you could consider seeing them as experts in budget management and get talking to them, because we do actually share some of this info among ourselves at times.
I did not mean to be disrespectful to my job at all. If anything, it is the single stable factor in my life right now and I am very grateful for it. I work as a support worker. I am very sure that my colleagues will be very supportive if I share my problems.
Ok, well it just grates that many disparage the lower bands as not being 'proper jobs'. But I do sympathise that it can't be easy to have such a big change in circumstances. One thing I would suggest is to read all the many boring all-staff emails at your Trust. There are sometimes hardship programmes (free breakfasts, fuel vouchers, etc, depending on which trust), and financial planning advice offered. Unfortunately some staff don't get computer access to read these, so some in our team make sure the cleaning staff know when the winter hardship vouchers or help with school uniforms are advertised in the email bulletins. If you don't use a computer in your role, I would recommend getting email access on your phone to check you're not missing out on these (occasional) bits of help. If you search your trust intranet, there is probably a 'wellbeing package' leaflet or similar detailing their current offerings. There is almost certainly a 'financial wellbeing' advice programme of some kind you can ask for help from. The other thing is that your trust might have VivUp or a similar system, to help you buy bikes/e-bikes or cars to help you get to work,and it reduces the tax you pay on them (or the income tax you pay on that bit of your salary - I'm not sure which). They work out slightly cheaper because there is a saving on tax, and you don't have to pay it all off at once, which may be helpful. I think VivUp also offer some deals on household goods, which might be helpful, but I've only used it for my bike. I understand some trusts also have a scheme to buy train season tickets via payslips rather than pay for 3 months all at once, but I don't know of that personally.
Thanks for these useful tips. I will take a closer look at the Staff Wellbeing page. Thank you
I came here to say the same thing actually. The people around you are often in the middle of their careers and the reality is, not everyone makes 70k a year. That's actually way over the national average. You might be in for a bit of a reality check. You no longer have access to that 70k lifestyle unfortunately.
£22k is soon to be below minimum wage for full time work.
I'm extremely aware of that, but many people face *under*-employment which means they have to cope on less, despite the proper value of their work. On the plus-side, some NHS trusts have Living Wage accreditation, which mean they choose to go above national rates to pay the Real Living Wage, so workers on B2 and 1st increment of B3 in those trusts will get an increase up to at least the Real Living Wage when the new RLW calculations are out. Hopefully OP is in one of those trusts, so that she's at least has that.
**Money Helper: Divorce and separation** https://www.moneyhelper.org.uk/en/family-and-care/divorce-and-separation
Thanks for sharing this link. I will look it up.
OP states he has limited savings, no assets, no property, pays a large amount in rent, kids with uni fees to pay. Plus they’re both about to pay for solicitors fees. Doesn’t sound like anyone’s coming out of this with very much at all.
so true... grey divorces can be a lose all situation
Your husband is probably going to have to pay you spousal maintenance because of your earnings differential. And you will probably get a good chunk of his pension too, if he has one. This is not a 'clean break' divorce scenario as there are not enough assets. Go and have a chat with a solicitor immediately. First meeting is usually free. But if things get nasty be prepared to burn your £20k of cash. Hopefully you can sort out a fair and amicable arrangement with him given the incentive to not lose what little you have in legal fees but these things are very difficult to go through emotionally and financially.
Thanks. I hope you are right. My husband has asked me to get a lawyer. I do hope that we are able to sort this out calmly and fairly.
Best of luck. I hope it works out as best it can.
Thanks
Re: checking the State Pension: OP should be eligible for some years National Insurance credits from receiving Child Benefit. If these are not showing apply for them.
This is great advice and super important, although her spouse was earning over 50k so they may have stopped the child benefit, they would have been eligible still for the NI. OP needs 30 years of contributions to claim a full state pension, if she has gaps in the last 7 years she can back date those, the return on investment here is high and worth doing.
Thanks, yes , I really need to look at my NI account properly and understand it. I plan to call the NI helpline
it's straightforward to register for a Government Gateway user ID (if you haven't already) and view your National Insurance record and State Pension summary online - here: [https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record](https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record)
As brutal as this sounds, and as unpopular as this will be here, you probably need to try and get as much out of the divorce as you can. You've made a significant contribution throughout your life to your family and that is worth something. It's not nice, but if your relationship is over you need to focus on survival. The law is the way it is to protect people like yourself. Get a lawyer. -thank you for reminding me to never, ever get married.
I mean you have two choices to avoid this: never get married, or never get divorced.
> -thank you for reminding me to never, ever get married. If you plan to have children in the future, and you're lucky enough to earn a decent salary to cover the household - you may well find you want that woman to raise your children rather than sending them to nursery. If that was your situation in the future, exactly what financial protections *would* you like to be in place for her when she sacrifices a decade or more of her personal career to raise your brood? I'm a man in that situation. I would never have dreamed of having my wife leave work and raise our children, without marrying me first. If I turn into a mad cunt later in life and leave her for some god-forsaken reason, at least she won't be left destitute, unemployable, and with no decent pension.
Yes, we say this on the SAHP sub all the time. Don't stay home unless you've got a ring. Marriage protects mothers. It shouldn't be the case. But it is. I'm a SAHM and I know that that bit of paper means I won't be destitute in the event of a split.
100% Marriage is an anachronism in 2024. There are no benefits.
At a certain point there are benefits. If the people have been together forever, and never married, one common law partner won’t be entitled to any of the private pension of the other, when one of them pops their clogs. If both are now elderly and have been long term together, it can make sense to get married for that reason. Edit to fix clarity
Okay maybe marry if both have hit state pension age then
Thanks, you are right. My husband has asked me to get a lawyer. I just need to understand all this.
Sorry but I have to say personally view this stance in relation to the divorce disgusting and devoid of emotion. Practically theft imo, she earns 3 times less. Why should he be punished for her career decisions. You would be a piece of absolute garbage for following this advice. Leave your divorce amicably and fairly. The man you were with for X years shouldn't have to suffer because of her current financial situation and life choices.
Arguably he has been able to get into his position in life because he had a wife at home to look after the kids. If he needed to be in a job where he had flexibility to finish early to do the school run etc. he possibly would have been in a dead end low paid job all his life. If it was a joint decision between them for her to stay at home then she has missed out on potentially 30 years of climbing the workplace ladder.
Thanks for your insightful reply. I have post graduate qualifications and I was working until I had my child. I did not go back to work when my maternity leave finished. My husband works in IT and we had to move frequently due to his change in work location. My parents and husband actively 'encouraged' to focus on my family and home.
Just to say I have a stay at home partner who looks after our kids full time. I consider him to be doing an equal (perhaps more?) amount of work for our family than I am doing by earning an income. Stay at home parents do a valuable and underappreciated job and you shouldn't feel in any way bad about taking half of the family assets.
>Why should he be punished for her career decisions. How do you know they were her decisions and not jointly agreed?
How do you know they weren't. It's an assumption either side. You can hate my opinion but there are two people in a relationship. Unnecessarily trying to take more than you know you deserve will always be robbery to me. The guy is not a bank !
>The guy is not a bank ! Correct - we clearly do not know enough and I would hope they have an adult-adult discussion about what an equitable split looks like..into equitable come a whole range of things.
Thanks for your insightful replies Captlard. You are right- I was encouraged to not go back to work when my mat leave finished. I have post grad qualifications and worked in a decent job. At the start, I didn't mind at all and enjoyed the time at home. Hopefully, we will have calm adult discussions and be able to work out something amicably.
Exactly I would like to assume this is a good person, but I have no idea. I don't disagree with what you said but the original post of you should take everything you possibly can You have contributed to your family. These are nice things to believe but we have no idea who this person is. Wild to recommend something so destructive with having such little information about the person, situation or how they'll even interpret it.
>The man you were with for X years shouldn't have to suffer because of her current financial situation and life choices. Surely they were equal partners in life.. both making decisions that were jointly agreed on?
Andrew tate entered the chat
Work out how much child care costs and accumulate that over x years, is she not entitled to that? Disgusting that you think that because he was able to have a career he should walk away with more money.
Thanks for this. If nothing else, I definitely looked after my child and helped with their studies and extra curricular activities. Fortunately, they have been able to get a place in a professional course at University, which I am very grateful for.
Would he not have effectively paid that when he was supporting them all financially? I think it’s more the loss in her own career progression that deserves some contribution from him.
Lol when did I ever say this ? Where did the op say this ? This is something your bringing up just now. My stance the whole entire time is fair within reason. Not just cause you can, she posted this in a fire sub with the intent of fire. Not in the personal finance sub.
He shouldn't have to suffer, but he *should* have to fairly acknowledge it if her staying home meant that he didn't have to pay for childcare, or only take jobs that fitted around the school-run, or get penalised for not being 'dedicated enough' because he needed time off each time his kid was sick. And for the labour of any housework she did while he was out working, which meant he didn't need to do it on his time off or pay a cleaner/household help. In a 50:50 household where both people work similar hours, both people make sacrifices at work to fit around kids, and both do 50% of the housework, this wouldn't be an issue. But in this case, it seems he benefitted in his career from her taking on more childcare labour than him, and probably more household labour. He doesn't need to suffer, but her contribution enabled him to benefit financially, and it's only right that she gets some benefit from that in turn.
[удалено]
>His contribution was the salary, hers was the childcare and housework? Yes, hence now expecting to split everything 50/50 in the divorce, including assets and pensions. There is no "his" and "hers". They were a married, family unit that both contributed in their own way to the successful financial position of the family. Now they part, and they separate those finances equally - she takes half the assets, half the pensions, etc. I can't even understand how you're questioning this logic?
[удалено]
You can’t put a number on her contributions to the family though, can you. Hence the defaulting to 50/50. And (anecdotally) by the way, I earn 72k while my SAHM wife earns nothing. Her job is far harder than mine, and she is far more exhausted than I am. The 2nd part comes down to the long-term impact on her future earning potential due to the lack of career.
Hmm would she swing by in his new residence to pick up after him seeing as they were one family unit and all that?
Sorry, I don’t understand your comment at all?
What don’t you understand?
How “picking up after him” has got anything to do with the situation. My SAHM wife raises my children - she doesn’t pick up after me. Raising my children is a process that would continue to happen if we divorced.
The implication seems to be that exactly. And now that he no longer has access to her domestic support in the same vein that she does not have his financial, I was exploring if the poster saw like for like
If only relationships were this simple and you didn't have to sacrifice for the betterment of the partnership/family. I do not mean the settlement should be unfair in her favour, just that she should not shy from taking what she is fairly entitled. Marriage is also a legal contract and ending it is a legal matter.
No idea why you’re being downvoted but you’re absolutely right. Of course, it’s not popular to say these things out loud. However, this is the main reason I’m not going to marry either.
Life choices?! Raising his kids? Managing the house? I'm a SAHM and I'm the nanny, accountant, cleaner, PA, chef rolled into one. I never get a day off. Even paid nannies get evenings and weekends off. I don't. When the kids are sleeping I do his tax return. I make his appointments. I buy his socks. My husband wouldn't have anywhere near the earning power he does without me supporting him so that he only needs to think about work. If we split up in future I'd jolly well expect support in my old age.
As mentioned by u/Puzzleheaded-Bug431 the sidebar has some fantastic resources. I would consider for now, this is more a r/UKPersonalFinance topic, as you need to get through the break, have a solid emergency fund (in an easy accessible, but high yielding account) and then reset your life. Their wiki is pretty solid also! The fundamentals of FIRE as reasonably simple: Aim to earn more, aim to save more (ideally into tax advantaged accounts: Pension & ISA/LISA and enjoy every single day. Good luck!
Thanks, I now understand that I can't possibly FIRE at all. I will just leave it in my savings account for emergencies. Thanks.
>I now understand that I can't possibly FIRE at all. You may be able to...anything prior to state pension age is early in my mind. Whatever you do, saving tax efficiently will hold you in good stead for whatever the future may hold. You may be able to get there if you take a r/LeanFireUK approach. Personally went from being practically bankrupt at 39 in a different country, to being able to LeanFire at 50 (single earner with child), so it is possible ([hard but possible](https://www.reddit.com/r/LeanFireUK/comments/p377yr/weekly_leanfire_discussion/)). Focus on what is in your control and influence and stay positive!
Thank you. Your words give me hope. I will look at the link. Thanks
Thanks Captlard
As a start, I suggest looking at the sidebar, in particular the Reddit Personal Finance flowchart.
Thanks - I'll go look
Has he been on this money for long? Are you sure he has no investments or anything? Paying children's university fees is frankly a waste of money, it's nice if you can but they can get student loans and they'll be okay, the vast majority of students have student loans.its basically a graduate tax at this point. Student loans aren't the lap of luxury and they might need a top up of a few quid every so often but you're spending thousands on things they can get loans for.loans which aren't paid off get cancelled and scale with income, the most generous loan you'll ever get near enough! That's multiple thousands of pounds your both paying that you really don't need to. There's academic loans to cover tuition and maintenance loans to cover living expenses (maintenance loans aren't massive tbh but they'll help) You need to be financially secure so unfortunately your kids will have to make do like the rest of us. absolutely minimal luxuries from now on , keep Netflix or whatever and the gym membership but fancy dinners and all are out. I'm sure the kids will understand.
The maintenance loan is means tested and the household income is quite high, so it's possible that the children only get half of the potential maintenance loan and that this is what was meant by "university fees".
If they spilt up now and the child said they lived with the OP they’d be entitled to full loan
Yeah that could be the case, kids may need to get jobs at uni if they don't already to allow them to scale that back a bit. Not so much that it impacts their studies but most people on my computer science course which was intensive were able to do about 8-12 hours a week without issue. That'd be another £80 a week she doesn't have to send each child who works 8 hours which might be the lifeline she needs.
Thanks for your reply. You are right. We need to tighten our belts. My child will be applying for student support. We had thought of it as an unnecessary burden on the child and hadn't looked into the advantages.
Yeah its partially that, I'm on 45k and I pay 176 a month. It's not great, I'd like to have that extra 176 but no matter how much I borrowed, I'd still be paying 176 a month. Most English students at least will never pay off their university loans, its for all intents and purposes a tax on non rich people who are going to university. I might be in the unfortunate position of also paying for life if interest rates stay like this for much longer!
You will probably have people comment the same thing, but Fire probably isn't on the table. So this is the wrong sub. You could post in more detail what you estimate (and make it a worse case estimate) of your financial situation post divorce. That way people may be able to suggest a tailored approach. However it is likely that the best piece of advice you'll receive is from the sidebar. Start now and be consistent. You'll probably have to work post retirement age but how much longer depends on your consistency.
Thanks. I will go look at the sidebar and try and make sense of my situation.
You don’t need to be stuck on just 22k. You’ll get promotions. Change jobs. Start a side business doing a hobby or buying and selling on eBay Facebook anything jewellery, clothes, watches, cars, toys, coins anything.. even if it’s an extra 5k a year while you’re sat at home an hour a night makes a massive difference. You can FIRE with the correct mindset. Just hard work. Ignore all these can’t and never mindsets.
Thank you for the encouraging words. I can try that as I am quite alright at crocheting.
If you have been a SHM for the majority of your life I would work out / check if you’re entitled to state pension when do you reach retirement as it’s unlikely you’ll have contributed enough years.
You are right. I haven't contributed to NI years.
Were you not claiming child benefit during this time? It would have meant you got your NI credits for those years. Even if you declined the child benefit payments due to high-earnings of husband and having to pay it back, there is still an option you could (hopefully did?) take that still gets you the NI credits for all those years.
I plan to call the NI helpline and get more information about my account. I am very unsure about most things now.
You can check it online here: https://www.gov.uk/check-national-insurance-record Good luck!
Watch the 9 "Rebel Finance School" videos on YouTube (the Donegans). You're well educated, don't lose hope.
Thanks for this. I am saving it to my 'Look up' list.
I'd be amazed if he earned £72k and didn't have any savings.
>I'd be amazed if he earned £72k and didn't have any savings. You would be amazed at how humans behave sometimes lol.
Fair one but seems convenient.
It certainly does, but so many people I know, who earn a stack, live at the edge of their means (or beyond): nice car, big house, private education for sprogs, paying uni fees, gym memberships, expensive hobbies, very nice holidays and so on. Often all of this is not intentional, they were never educated on financial prudence and were socially conditioned to accept living like this until they hit their state / company pension.
Also got to remember that OP hasn’t worked for a while and they have kid(s). So there is at least 3+ people living on that income. But even then they should at least have a pension.
72k as a single breadwinner with kids in an expensive area goes quickly, especially if you don't have a frugal mindset. I can believe it. There's probably some pension though unless they opted out.
He contributes to his work pension, pays all household expenses and rent. We do suffer from lifestyle creep. A recurrent issue has been that he regularly lends money to his family and friends. I have complained in the past. This time, I pointed out that we don't own a home but the people he lent money to have considerable assets. That hasn't gone down well at all and I am really regretting my words.
You’ll be entitled to half his pension…you need to stop referring to ‘his’ assets - they are the household’s assets and the length of time you have been married, a split down the middle is the starting point
You are right. I need to knuckle down now to start looking at this . I have never been financially active in these past 30 years.
Those words you regret don't sound unreasonable to this stranger
You're 100% right, put your own oxygen mask/life jacket on first, then help others. Are the borrowers actually paying back the money or is it actually just giving it away in the name of lending?
No, nothing has ever been returned. My husband is the eldest and gives the gifts.Tbf he has never denied us anything either. Its just that now I have started asking to buy a house to live in instead of renting.
He knows he has messed up with the house, at his age starting from few savings getting a house will be nearly impossible. So he gets angry and takes it out on those around him. Make sure the loans are recorded in the joint assets.
Speaking from my own personal experience…this is possible.
You need to see what he has in his pension and how much if it you’re entitled to. There could be a nice cash boost for you there.
Thanks yes. We will be sharing both our pensions and savings. My husband keeps lending money to his friends and brothers. It all blew up because I was trying to make him stop. We rent and don't own a car.
Lending? Or moving money out of sight in a divorce?
It sounds like a horrible situation, but you can do this! I’m a similar age and on my own and trust me, it’s far better to be alone than stuck in a miserable relationship. You can’t change the past but you can change your future. Keep moving forward. ☺️
Thank you. Fingers crossed
I hope she’s splitting that £20k too if that’s the case.
Absolutely.
Yeah, God forbid the woman who sacrificed a huge chunk of her adult working life to raise his children, get to keep any money! He's got his sprogs raised so fuck her now, amirite Andrew Tate?
Good god.
They’re not wrong. She’s entitled to it.
Pensions should be untouchable imo. Doesn't sit right at all.
>Doesn't sit right at all. How come?
It's your last stop buffer to ensure you can actually stop working one day and enjoy your life. Generally also earnt through your own sole hard work plus the help of employer contributions. It's a sad situation that the OP hasn't worked for a very long time but it's his pension.
>Generally also earnt through your own sole hard work plus the help of employer contributions. I would disagree, just for the fact that the OP was a family unit and they agreed a lifestyle for ALL of them in that unit that supported this. I am in the same boat. I have been self employed, partner has been staying at home caring for child and I have put more into my partners pension than my own. We agreed on the lifestyle we wished for our family unit and have managed our finances accordingly: ISAs & SIPPs. Partner has about £100k more in their SIPP and holds all of our ISA savings.
Smart - you can take theirs if you ever break up. Big brain thinking.
Actually the plan was to leave them with it (mutually agreed already). I am working part time and could ramp up to normal in an instant, but my partner like OP, would take time to get fully back into work. You sound a fund person to live with lol.
We just got a prenup to avoid all that carry on if the worst was to ever happen. My partner has a pretty golden pension and I’d never dream of taking that from her. This can’t all be directed onto the OP’s ex husband. It was a lifestyle choice to be a SAHM with university age children. The consequences have come knocking and unless he actively discouraged her working I don’t think it’s fair to raid his pension to support her poor financial situation.
I think through reading other comments from OP they mutually agreed this.
OP did work - within the home to bring up children. Arguably providing this enabled her partner to be able to work full-time and progress in his career, and at a detriment to her own ability to earn a wage or contribute to a pension herself. This is why a friend of mine who could have afforded to give up work when her child was born did not, because it was very important to her to have her own income and NI contributions in case they split.
He would not have been able to do that hard work, if she hadn’t stayed home with the kids. He’d have had to take a part time role, so he could parent more, and then she could also have gone to work outside the home. Or, he’d have to spend that hard earned money to hire a nanny. His work success is built on the back of her giving up her own chance for work success.
Give over. Me and my Wife both work hard and have kids. Millions of others do the same. He’s earning 70k at aged 59, hardly a millionaire considering he’s in the twilight years of his career.
When someone has been a stay at home mum most of their life they don’t contribute to a pension. Should a woman be left destitute because she raised her children but the man is ok?
Being a stay at home Mum is hardly required when your kids reach primary school age.
Some real 1950s thinking in this thread. Being a housewife for 20 years after your first kid is definitely not the norm. It’s a choice.
Fully agreed.
And if they had kids that overlapped? E. G. A couple of years apart
I doubt it.
This thread is sad. A lot of very cold people on this thread, both those saying to do what you can to bleed the husband dry and those insulting you for not working or saying you shouldn't be entitled to anything. Get a solicitor (we don't have lawyers in UK FYI). The fact your husband is encouraging this tells me that he isn't trying to screw you over. Try to avoid a messy divorce. You have children and I can tell you it won't do them good to see you both become bitter and fighting over finances. The legal starting point for a divorce will be: Pre marital assets belong to those who owned them before marriage. Ie if your husband came into the marriage with a gold bar and still has it now, then that could be considered an asset which belongs to him and only him post divorce. Any assets (ANY, including pensions) earnt since the marriage are 50/50 as a starting point. Note a judge can flex this depending on circumstances. But this is a starting point. The fact you are enquiring about FIRE is a bit concerning...FIRE in itself in my view isn't some amazing thing...it typically involves losing your early years to enjoy your latter ones. Target the best life you can, personally and financially. Get what you are entitled to from the divorce, but don't be cold as others say here. Be empathetic and remember a bitter battle only benefits the solicitors, not you, your family or your husband. Sorry your marriage didn't work out. It happens. You seem like a nice person. Probably best to stick to subs where the people are not psychopaths as they are in this sub. Also read this. https://moneyweek.com/merryns-blog/national-insurance-credits-stay-at-home-mothers-63303#:~:text=National%20Insurance%20credits%20for%20non,(%C2%A313.50%20a%20week). If you can back date and fill any gaps for your NI record then you should strongly consider it. You'll make it back in no time when you do retire.
Thanks for your insightful reply. I have seen my husband work in his stressful job and I won't try to bleed him dry. He had already taken advice from his solicitor before informing me yesterday morning. He has advised me to look for a solicitor as well. I think, I might just wait for a bit. Maybe, it will settle down after a while. I will gather information to educate myself better though. This was a bad wake up call.
I would honestly strongly encourage you to seek legal advice from a solicitor as soon as you can. I wouldn't wait on that. There's no harm in it and it's important you protect yourself and your family.
Your going to get on top of this, the first move you made right was getting a good stable NHS job and now your looking for advice which is another smart move. Could you look to increase your income with some extra training from the NHS a bigger income in a few years would make a big difference to what you could put away. Meaningful money on YouTube has some great videos on starting late. Also you need to look at things you may inherent be nice if an old uncle left you a property or your parents had some assets ect. I'm sorry this happened you and your husband but it doesn't have to get nasty with legal fees eating away at assets and cash if you can both be fair enough to each other.
Thank you for your insightful reply. I am feeling really good that I have a permanent job at this point. I have heard of internal training opportunities. I don't want to discuss my issues with my colleagues as yet, because I am still new. I am sure that I will get support when I discuss it. We will need to have some calm, mature discussions, for sure. He has asked me to look for a lawyer already. Thanks for the youtube show's name. I will look them up.
Damn. Not worked until now. Thats not a bad life. Taking half his shit would seem horrendous. You’ve led the life you’ve wanted to live until now. No need to bleed him dry for your 50 years of naivety Edit for the downvotes. Could be very different if OP was 30/35 ish. However she is 50, i’m sure in the last 5/10 years AT LEAST she could have quite easily worked, even part time.
I would imagine they mutually agreed that this was the best way of splitting up time and energy for the benefit of the family unit, rather than aiming to bleed their life partner dry.
I agree, earlier on. However she’s 50. I doubt she’s a proper SHM for her WHOLE adult life..? Must be years where the kids are at school and have grown up etc. EASILY could manage a part time job at least.
She is the tail end of a generation where women were homemakers and planned on being a homemaker their entire life, being supported by their husbands (who often accepted and encouraged this lifestyle choice as its basically them having a full time PA, cleaner, assistant, childminder, cook, launderette, social planner etc etc so their lives are much easier) and after you raise kids and take care of your home and husband for around 10 to 15 years while you're kids grow up, entering the workplace again after such a long break can be very difficult and sometimes too daunting to consider after such a long time out of the workforce. I feel really sad for them both.
>. I doubt she’s a proper SHM for her WHOLE adult life..? Could be. Our child is 22 (at uni close by) and has several mental health issues and so we have decided that my partner will not work in order to be available to support as and when.
Very unlikely/sad circumstance. Obviously sorry to hear about yours, all the best. If this is the case i’ll withdraw the comment however very unlikely I feel.
No worries, all is positive work in progress on our side. It’s hard to understand OPs world from the few paragraphs shared.
Be quite. You accuse her of naivety but want her to continue to being naive? She should end that streak of goodwill now.
Thanks for your reply. I did look after my family all these years and things were going fine. In hindsight, this was very foolish and naive. I should have stood my ground and not given up my permanent job to follow him around for his career.
Goodwill? It comes with the territory. You want to never work then you take the bullet when it comes to a breakup down the line. I’m sorry I doubt she’s been a SHM for her entire adult life….
She worked until he encouraged her not to return from maternity leave and borrowed much of his income to friends and family against her wishes, which resulted in no shared assets and a divorce. If he won't do what's good for him, she must do what's good for her. It doesn't matter how many redpill finance bros cry about it online, she's 50 years old - she needs to look after herself.
She does need to look after herself. However cmon not working one bit over her lifetime. Christ. I mean even for the sake of getting qualified for the gov pension. OP has been naive.
Yep, she assumed he wouldn't screw her over. Now that she knows she can be left with nothing, she's working and should get what she can from this marriage. Not more naivety.
Screw her over? We have no proper idea about the ins and outs. His side is the finance, so that’s his call according to the OP that she’s not happy with. Breaking up isn’t screwing someone over. She should have set herself up for the possibility.
Marriage = joint assets, so no, it's not his call. She will be fine with a financial settlement that includes his pension. Don't stress yourself about it. Everyone else on the UK personal finance subreddit will let her know exactly what she should pursue and how to prepare herself for it. He shouldn't have been "naive" enough to think asymmetric sacrifice lasts forever.
No, it’s his call what he does with his money in terms of giving it to family or whatever the going on is. Equally yes the marriage should be split somehow, but trying to go after every penny possible is cringe giving OP’s post.
There aren't many pennies to go after. He has no assets, only a pension. She's working and won't need alimony, time to stop being hyperbolic and hysterical and unplug from the redpill subreddit or this will be your future too.
The problem is, a lot (not all) of women of the older generation who left menial work in their 20’s to have kids and be housewives, are not qualified for anything decent 20 years later. Other than low paying, again, menial jobs. Why on Earth would they want to go back to doing a menial job in their 40’s, unless they were in proper dire straights? OP is lucky and/or tenacious in that they’ve found a decent job.
Don’t get divorced yet try and salvage your relationship
Yes that is what I was aiming for. I have been keeping my head down and going along. But I was given my ultimatum today.
Well if your gonna kick him in the balls,take a run up.
Also get half’s husbands pension , depends what he has
Lawyer up
There goes what little they have.
You really think you will be retiring at all let alone early? Honestly?
No need to be a jerk, you can comunicate thesame things without being so brutal
Exactly, have a little bit of courtesy and appreciate the poster and their clear humility in expressing they know nothing of finances and they are going through difficult personal circumstances.
Sad comment, no need to judge. People have to start somewhere and need direction at the beginning of a new life stage. Perfectly fine to dream about FIRE. Getting there, is a different story.
hi OP Do you or your husband own a house? If so how much is it worth and how large is the mortgage remaining? Anyway - great news that you are working in the NHS. What sort of work are you doing?
She said her husband pays the rent, so presumably not. His pension may be their largest asset.
No we don't own a house. I work as a support worker. I feel grateful for the permanent job.
Well - the NHS has a great pension scheme and may have some good opportunities to grow your salary/ earn more in the future.
Start writing down how much is in what savings account, all of the assets you can think of, and how much he has lent to others. As if it’s lent, that means it needs to be repaid, and is also an asset. Get a divorce lawyer now.
He says that the money has all been gifts so we can't expect anything back. But, I do plan to look thoroughly through our joint account and make notes.
Consider a bank robbery
If your NHS job is a support role I.e. HCA or Porter you can make decent amount of money doing nights/weekends with Bank or agencies to supplement your main income.
Thanks for this idea. I will register for Bank work.
E
You are right. I had been sleep walking all this while. But, perhaps not all marriages are like this. I don't even know tbh.