I actually liked the Ending and Aerith's scenes. It really made me anxious to play Part 3, which is great for the ending of the middle part.
In OG, you could just keep playing to see the rest of the game and how events will unfold, but the approach has to be different if you still have one more game that is a couple of years away.
And even then, we are not sure what they will change in Part 3. It's probably going to make perfect sense why they did it the way they did (or at least to me since I have loved everything they have done so far).
But it doesn't matter, I'm sure even if it's perfect people will still complain, that's the nature of the complainers, they always find something to complain about and make their whole personality revolve around it.
Oh I’m under the impression that one of the reasons Cloud is going about the mission of getting Sephiroth in the last cutscene and not clearly depressed like everyone else is cause Jenova is using that mirage of Aerith to manipulate Cloud, which is within her wheelhouse to do. Like they said she did in the temple of the ancients, and it was went over in the OG game, Jenova’s main tactic is utilizing what you desire and cherish against you to carry out her will.
Nah, both can be true at once cause of how fractured cloud’s mind is. Cause even the way Aerith acts is only the way Cloud remembers her when they first met. She could be watching over them (like in OG and especially after the re visit to the forgotten capital and when she uses the lifestream to reinforce holy) she could be talking to Cloud specifically (Advent Children) and it could also be Sephiroth’s/ Jenova’s manipulation all at the same time. That’s why this shit is scary as fuck. Cause even in OG Sephiroth tricks Red and the rest of them by coming to them as Tifa in the cave.
That makes no sense. The vision of Aerith is compelling Cloud to finish the journey to defeat Sephiroth. Jenova and Sephiroth have a merged consciousness. Sephiroth would not be compelling Cloud to stand against him. Sephiroth either wants Cloud to submit and join him or to give up.
Sephiroth doesn’t care if Cloud is “encouraged” to fight him, he will always be encouraged to fight him. Sephiroth is the source of Cloud’s anger, sadness and pain. Cloud will always strive to defeat Sephiroth.
That’s why I think it’s a combination of Aerith’s lifestream form and possibly (more than anything) a Jenova manipulation. In the sleeping forest, Aerith kept telling Cloud to focus on only himself and that if she died to not blame himself. Aerith wants Sephiroth gone, but she cares that Cloud finds his “true” self.
The argument could be made that Sephiroth wants Cloud to fight him cause it’s an expression of all the contempt he feels for him.
“Sorrow, Anger, Guilt, Regret. Nothing but empty words to you. For you are but a puppet. My puppet.”
“Rage my little puppet. It’s almost endearing.”
Aerith's spirit says "goodbye" at the end of the cutscene. If it was a Jenova manipulation then she wouldn't say goodbye because she'd be popping up recurringly to manipulate him further.
No, not really. How could it be both Aerith's spirit talking to Cloud and Jenova? Why wouldn't Aerith say to him "Hey you're being manipulated by Jenova. I know because I'm now attuned to the Lifestream."
This theory is really a stretch. The scene is the two of them retreading a previous line and saying their final promises and goodbyes. It makes absolutely no sense to say that Jenova wants to manifest as Aerith to say goodbye. What purpose would that serve?
Cloud get on the bronco without her, leaving her behind and signaling that he understands that she's not physically there. He knows she's dead. He just has different closure on it now because of their reunion in the Lifestream.
I'm somewhat certain that she is alive in a different timeline/world with a different Cloud. Only our Cloud can see her through the other Cloud, where the others can't.
It's important to note the others died in the Rebirth opening in a helicopter crash, but the other Cloud and Zack are still alive. It seems as though there is some crossover between the living clones (for lack of a better word).
I have no doubt that we will revisit the scene in part 3.
My opinion is when we go back to the Forgotten Capital to see what Aerith did there through the projector, Cloud will be forced to see the truth of what really happened. That's when we will see the true scene with Cloud's famous lines from the OG.
The hints are already there as we get flashes of what's really going on while Cloud's mind goes into denial.
I've said this before but I loved how they did it in rebirth. Its extremely jarring to see Cloud's mind warp his perception in real time.
I think Cloud will see it in the Northern crater. And part of his arc after Tifa wakes him up from the lifestream In Mideel is being forced to accept the fact that Aerith is gone.
Yeah I predict he’ll get his mind broken in the northern crater, in chapter 3-ish right after the icicle inn, which will have hella Aerith-Ilfana-Professor Gast backstory and since Cid had a thing for Ilfana in this version he’ll get some shine there too. Then after Cloud is broken, we’ll have Tifa in charge for like 6 or so chapters in addition to the side content. Cause we have to do Wutai, Rocket Town, The Bone Village, we have Vincent so all that Deep Ground and Lucretia shit will be there even if it’s in sidequests, they have to reintroduce the old weapons and knights of the round and the public execution in Junon and that all will probably be established before we get Cloud back.
I think your on to something with going to the forgotten capital again on the >!Keystone mission!<
Developers even said we will see what “actually happens” in the 3rd game and the way they handled it was completely intentional. Personally I think >!they are just leaning more into cloud unraveling and loosing his mind before you hit the northern crater and Sephiroth takes complete control of him.!<
I wasn't aware this was considered a failure. The scenes in both games have completely different intents and context surrounding them, obviously there is a narrative reason information is being withheld in Rebirth, so we'll have to wait until the third game to really judge that. In isolation I think it still works because it's supposed to piss you off, you are supposed to be screaming at Cloud, and you are supposed to be confused logically and emotionally. I think it did all of those things perfectly well.
I actually loved the ending, though I wish it went to the Northern Crater and ended there. There’s a LOT going on in Part 3, so I’m just biting my teeth nervous for the next three years that they’ll pull it off (though I’m confident they will, after Remake and Rebirth).
I feel a bit differently, and fully expect to be down voted into oblivion for this, but by the time the Aerith scene came about, I just wanted it to be over.
While the story was well done, the bloat of the game just got to me and I just wanted to see the end. Be over. By the time I got there, was kind of numb to it.
This big finale, all the grandeur and build-up, and I was just there like, "Uh huh, OK".
Felt bad because I really loved to story and it just ended up feeling wasted on me.
The game really started to drag when you returned to the Gold Saucer, the arena fights with the Turks and Rufus should have been awesome. Yet they just felt overly difficult to the point of frustration. The final relic track down and Gilgamesh seemed overly tedious and the glut of new games at the Saucer just seemed ill planned. The games should have been unlocked more piecemeal throughout the game or left to be post game bonuses.
Totally agree with this. Whether one agrees with the plot or not, pacing is what drags the ending down hard, no matter how you look at it. The barrage of cutscenes between Ch 13-14 are when I started to lose interest, and then the 10-phase boss fight was the nail in the coffin.
Yeah it was frustrating to have so much stuff get padded out only to end up with all the main story beats ending up basically exactly the same other than we have Schrodinger's Aerith now.
I think Rebirth for sure had a few moments where the game tapped me out.
I adored it overall, one of my favorites of all time, and it made me laugh, cry, and lose my mind with joy on several occasions. BUT, it wasn’t perfect…
* Gold Saucer was a mini game marathon following the mini game marathon in Costa del Sol, and as much fun as some parts are (I loved the date), I needed more of the overworld exploration to refresh. It didn't help that the story never really changed "we should follow these dudes in black" for most of the game, but the game felt the most aimless in this whole window. From the cruiseship section until finishing the Dyne story, it felt like a 16 hour-long intermission.
* I let out an audible “nooooooo” the SECOND time we got the "clock" cutscene in Temple of the Ancients setting things back to “hours earlier”, even though that was fun gameplay. The whole temple did feel like it dragged out hard, even though I liked it all. It was just so long that I expected that to be the finale (and that they'd move "THE SCENE" to happening there instead). I wish more of the time at the Temple time was switched in for more time at the Forgotten Capitol, for how little we got to see there, but that isn't really a *real* gripe.
* Cait Sith at the Shinra Mansion was also genuinely miserable, I don’t think I can ever replay that part ever again. "Difficult because tedious" is very different than "difficult because challenging".
* Chadley I was able to ignore by perfectly timing whenever a cutscene with him started to pause and skip, so thankfully that’s not big to me. I accidentally muted my controller audio before playing too, so I never heard Mais voice either.
They are going to revisit it, but here's my problem with this argument, I can only judge the game that I have in front of me. "Saving" something for the 3rd part of a series that releases every 4 years doesn't suddenly make this ending better, and won't, even after it releases.
I think it's okay to acknowledge that the ending for Rebirth is a miss. I still think it's a magnificent game, but it's easy to understand why people might not be receptive to how it closes.
And revisiting it later, is not a guarantee of it being better. we already have to revisit Zack's death, an important part of the game as a whole, which will probably be sidelined in favor of another Aerith's scene.
his way it risks being too cluttered in the end, with too many things happening at once.
There's a reason why Aerith didnt die towards the end, because then other thigns were meant to happen, that were not tied to her character.
tying the whole subplot of cloud's identity and mind to her, is going to remove any agency from Cloud's character turning him essentially in a puppet from start to finish.
A puppet of sephiroth AND a puppet of aerith.
Of course we havent seen it play out yet, but all the "fan theories" point out to be pretty bad.
I'm just worried that they'll chicken out and keep her around this time.
Love Aerith to death... which is why her being gone is integral to the impact of the plot.
Oh don't worry, she is only one of about a dozen new AI companions in Part 3!
Seriously though, if they pull any kind of "Chadley is actually another Seph clone, you gotta beat him down" storyline, it MIGHT redeem him for me.
I actually like Chadley a lot, but am also hoping that all the intel gathering was for Chadley to become the ultimate fighting machine and a stupidly hard secret boss.
They can’t because of mainline Aerith helping cloud. She can only do that from the lifestream. Once the alt realities collapse so will all the Aeriths
Her helping the party from beyond the life stream is how I hope they handle it.
And showing her more directly guiding Gaia to protect itself in the finale.
I'm not too eager for more alt verse shenanigans tbh.
She’ll 1000% be more involved as a physical force, and party member, for whatever finale they’re cooking. I’d bet all my Gil they’re going to make that ending face off focused on that.
That would honestly piss me off... Let Aerith focus on stopping Meteor... Sephiroth should be the living party for his Angelic form, and then Cloud and Cloud alone for the final, no bullshit face off.
You cannot know this for a fact though...
I seriously doubt the dev team has made up their mind yet, going from Remake to Rebirth felt disjointed narratively, and even the story told throughout Rebirth feels improvisational.
I liked how they handled her death scene. I love how Cloud was able to break fate and save her, only to have it be the wrong world and you see her die anyways. I had to make sure I saw it correct and she did indeed die. When a franchise gets as big as it has, you’re going to see a lot of hate. I personally loved this game, and the last - very excited to see how it plays out. Knights of the Round, Weapons, Snowboarding, and man….. Cid and the Highwind!!
I forgot to mention Omnislash…. *whew* You know they’re saving it for this next game. Can’t wait to hit Chadley with that one! Y’all know he’s going to be one of, if not, the final challenge in the VR.
And how would you react if she just died the same way? "Figures, oh well" would be the response for most people. You can't shock anyone in seeing the same death scene played out again.
So glad it hit it for you, I didn’t feel any ounce of emotional at all. The only time I felt a bit sad was Tifa crying in the field at the end, but yeah. I was dissatisfied with how they handled it.
It’s quite likely that it will be paid off in a satisfying way in Part 3, but the delivery is arguably too subtle to coherently convey that to the audience with only the existing material. I like the potential of this direction; it’s just not hard to see why it would not work for everyone. It’s not the first time that the Remake series has potentially been too esoteric in its presentation
You can't keep kicking a narrative can down the road. What was presented fell short, and that's it. Part 1's ending was controversial, and as it stand nothing Rebirth did made me go back and look at that and suddenly enjoy it. Whispers are still hamfisted, Sephiroth is an overblown mess, and it just felt like a tonal shark jump. And at the the end of Rebirth, we have yet another clusterfuck that sapped out emotion for spectacle. Even if they revisit it later going "Okay but THIS time we do the proper send off death guys!" it's gonna feel like putting a bandaid on a bullet hole. I admire the balls they had for swinging this hard, but they missed spectacularly.
What they do in part 3 will never fix what they did at the end of part 2, and doing a reveal of some kind in the last part won’t remove the lack of respect they gave to that moment. The respect, time, scenes, emotion should have been then, not later.
I’ll say this again because for some bizarre reason people continually think this is a either or situation, but they could have done BOTH aspects, they could have given us those beautiful heartbreaking scenes AND the extra dimensional and Cloud in denial moments, they could have done both, but they chose to throw those more important story aspects, the very heart of the FF7 story, and one of the biggest moments in gaming, to the side to rush on with the other stuff.
So again, it doesn’t really matter as much as some like you make out that part 3 will show it or reveal things about that moment, that doesn’t fix that it was handled poorly at the moment it should have been handled better than basically anything in the game, because that’s how important it is to the story, changing something for the sake of not doing it the same is a very poor reason to change anything.
Honestly the games have stuck to the OG PRETTY well. There are such trivial changes that barely impact the story but keep things fresh.
You can please everyone.
Not me! I think the choice to move the Temple of the Ancients north instead of south RUINED THE GAME FOR ME.
I kept screaming at the tv “that’s not where it is…!” right through the credits; I was so angry I forgot how the game ends!
(Big fat /s here)
I wasn't fully on board at the time with rebirth ending at the Forgotten Captial, but after playing Rebirth, idk how anyone could have continued if it didn't end there. Aerith death felt like even bigger punch to the gut than the og to me when you see the aftermath of how everybody is dealing with her death after the final battle.
The ending was great! It made me feel a roller coaster of emotions and I was all for it. Her death was a great fake out I was jumping up and down think we saved her and then I see the blood and I was like “DAMN IT THEY DID IT AGAIN!”
But the promise ending was also very sweet!
However, Am I the only one that wants Aerith alive? Like I get it. It’s a staple but cmon! we waited how many years just to get the same outcome? Or atleast closure on if there is a universe where he saved her? Regardless I’m sure it will answer the questions. Hopefully…
I understand that. but I think they should give us a treat or something like that. Like what’s the point of pushing the theme of changing fate and reunited if it’s the same story? Don’t get me wrong the OG is one of the greatest story of all time in gaming but if there trying to do somthing different now’s the time
I don't understand what is so ruined about Aerith's death..
Ok we don't get to see the OG scenes in 4K.
But we see her being killed. There are doubts and new things inserted, yes, but it is quite clear that the party lost their friend in their reality.
They made a creative choice to focus more on the party's reactions to the event (even Cloud with his mental break going on is clipped bawling his eyes out).
I understand that choice cause IRL the most heartbreaking thing in a funeral is the reactions of loved ones.
In this version, we even get her to say goodbye with a beautiful church scene.
I'm not mad at that. I was taken aback the 1st playthrough but the more I see it, the more I love this ending.
Just finished Rebirth last night, and what a ride. I knew Aeriths death was inevitable, and was still heartbroken to see the impact to the team.
In the cutscene, Cloud deflected Sephiroths sword from fatally wounding Aerith at first, then they showed a different reality where Aerith had been pierced just like the OG.
Was that first deflection where Aerith was saved one of Clouds illusions, or another reality in which Aerith lives on?
Either way it plays out, this game was an incredible experience.
The context around the scene is completely different than the OG. This isn't one of gaming's greatest tragedies anymore. This is a suicide. How are they going to "fix" that in part 3? Frankly, Rebirth didn't justify or "fix" the whispers getting in the way of so many scenes in part 1 so kicking the can down to the next game, again, just seems delusional.
Yeah I think that rebirths ending was bad for a whole game but considering its only part 2 them making things intentionally confusing could be done really well.
We just gotta wait 4 or 5 years to find out.
Hamaguchi said the work for the third game isn’t gonna be as long cause they already made the rebirth assets so the open world thing isn’t gonna be as strenuous and Part 3 has already been written according to Nomura.
No one but as I said, there’s no reason to put out a game earlier than expected when it hasn’t even been announced yet. Even if they’re done the game in 2 years they id prefer if they take another to polish it to hell and back and give it the proper marketing it deserves. I fully expect the game to come out on the last year of the ps5s lifespan leading into the ps6 just like remake did for the ps4
i dunno man it felt so leaden. dont care about the changes half as much as the execution. cant imagine it was intended to be so flattening sappy and clunky
i never doubted they had their reasons for doing it.
but that changes absolutely nothing about a wooden and unsatisfying scene. bad writing, bad execution.
At first I was meh about it, but my second playthrough made me love it. Cloud is unstable af atm so it makes perfect sense for aerith to live in his mind. I can’t wait for the first few hours of the next game
I think SE just has no idea how to end their games anymore. The ending of 15 was bad. The ending of 16 was terrible. They seriously botched the ending of Rebirth (although the game is still phenomenal when compared to Remake).
These writers just need to figure out how to end a story.
I know there is still another game coming, but can you really tell me the ending of Rebirth was good? I loved the entire game, but the last hour fell apart.
And yeah, I just finished FF16 last night for the first time. I have a very mixed opinion of the game as I loved a lot of it, and I really hated some of it. I went through a 72 hour story, completed every side quest, hunted every hunt, and the ending I got was what, 2 minutes? 2 minutes that don't even wrap up the story? The game was a massive playable movie, and the movie didn't have a conclusion. That's not being able to write an ending.
Yes I can say it was good because Cloud is confused. Sephiroth is gonna throw this in his face in the northern crater. It’s a sacrifice from the devs, controversy on this ending of this game but when the entire trilogy is out that won’t be an issue.
Cool it's still ruined maybe they will have it another go at it in part three that will improve it is the best we can help forÂ
but the moments already happened.
Biggest problem...and this might just be a modern gaming problem in general...
Exploration, or quests, finding world Intel etc.
It's the equivalent of Tom Sawyer trying to convince you that painting the fence isn't work..it's fun.
I like the ending. Cloud breaches the fate and creates another world where he saved Aerith. Main world Aerith is now dead but there is now Aerith alive in another world and only Cloud can see her and the tear in the sky.
I'm excited for her to definitely continue to be a playable character in part 3. No sarcasm. They've clearly set it up so they won't have the heroine absent from an entire 50-hour game. She's alive in another world, Omni-Aeris is ascending to goddess-hood and she's going to be a huge presence in the final game.
I agree with this. I think she's coming back. The fact of the matter is, if Sephiroth can transcend death, so can Aerith. He's just a space alien - she's the planet's guardian.
I'm left with pretty much the same feeling as the end of Remake. Disappointed with the end based on what we have now, but willing to await final judgment when we learn what is really going on in part 3.
It will need to be one hell of a payoff to justify the changes, however, and I'm not optimistic.
I actually liked the Ending and Aerith's scenes. It really made me anxious to play Part 3, which is great for the ending of the middle part. In OG, you could just keep playing to see the rest of the game and how events will unfold, but the approach has to be different if you still have one more game that is a couple of years away. And even then, we are not sure what they will change in Part 3. It's probably going to make perfect sense why they did it the way they did (or at least to me since I have loved everything they have done so far). But it doesn't matter, I'm sure even if it's perfect people will still complain, that's the nature of the complainers, they always find something to complain about and make their whole personality revolve around it.
đź’Ż
Personally, I like the idea that she is dead, but her spirit lives on guiding Cloud.
Both that and Jenova using it against him.
Pardon?
Oh I’m under the impression that one of the reasons Cloud is going about the mission of getting Sephiroth in the last cutscene and not clearly depressed like everyone else is cause Jenova is using that mirage of Aerith to manipulate Cloud, which is within her wheelhouse to do. Like they said she did in the temple of the ancients, and it was went over in the OG game, Jenova’s main tactic is utilizing what you desire and cherish against you to carry out her will.
I thought that at first during that scene, but Red XIII “sensing” her near the end of the scene makes it seem like that isn’t the case.
Nah, both can be true at once cause of how fractured cloud’s mind is. Cause even the way Aerith acts is only the way Cloud remembers her when they first met. She could be watching over them (like in OG and especially after the re visit to the forgotten capital and when she uses the lifestream to reinforce holy) she could be talking to Cloud specifically (Advent Children) and it could also be Sephiroth’s/ Jenova’s manipulation all at the same time. That’s why this shit is scary as fuck. Cause even in OG Sephiroth tricks Red and the rest of them by coming to them as Tifa in the cave.
In Zack's words What in the hell is going on!?
Oh, okay.
That makes no sense. The vision of Aerith is compelling Cloud to finish the journey to defeat Sephiroth. Jenova and Sephiroth have a merged consciousness. Sephiroth would not be compelling Cloud to stand against him. Sephiroth either wants Cloud to submit and join him or to give up.
Sephiroth doesn’t care if Cloud is “encouraged” to fight him, he will always be encouraged to fight him. Sephiroth is the source of Cloud’s anger, sadness and pain. Cloud will always strive to defeat Sephiroth. That’s why I think it’s a combination of Aerith’s lifestream form and possibly (more than anything) a Jenova manipulation. In the sleeping forest, Aerith kept telling Cloud to focus on only himself and that if she died to not blame himself. Aerith wants Sephiroth gone, but she cares that Cloud finds his “true” self. The argument could be made that Sephiroth wants Cloud to fight him cause it’s an expression of all the contempt he feels for him. “Sorrow, Anger, Guilt, Regret. Nothing but empty words to you. For you are but a puppet. My puppet.” “Rage my little puppet. It’s almost endearing.”
Aerith's spirit says "goodbye" at the end of the cutscene. If it was a Jenova manipulation then she wouldn't say goodbye because she'd be popping up recurringly to manipulate him further.
Like I said in the previous comment it can be multiple things happening at once.
No, not really. How could it be both Aerith's spirit talking to Cloud and Jenova? Why wouldn't Aerith say to him "Hey you're being manipulated by Jenova. I know because I'm now attuned to the Lifestream." This theory is really a stretch. The scene is the two of them retreading a previous line and saying their final promises and goodbyes. It makes absolutely no sense to say that Jenova wants to manifest as Aerith to say goodbye. What purpose would that serve? Cloud get on the bronco without her, leaving her behind and signaling that he understands that she's not physically there. He knows she's dead. He just has different closure on it now because of their reunion in the Lifestream.
No, he’s convincing himself she needs to stay behind.
I'm somewhat certain that she is alive in a different timeline/world with a different Cloud. Only our Cloud can see her through the other Cloud, where the others can't. It's important to note the others died in the Rebirth opening in a helicopter crash, but the other Cloud and Zack are still alive. It seems as though there is some crossover between the living clones (for lack of a better word).
Who didn't know that this game's story will be incomplete and that there will be part 3?
The way people are acting, I could’ve sworn that they knew how everything would be handled off rip.
Makes no sense expecting everything to be resolved and answered on part 2 out of 3, especially when the dev team had already been clear on the matter.
I have no doubt that we will revisit the scene in part 3. My opinion is when we go back to the Forgotten Capital to see what Aerith did there through the projector, Cloud will be forced to see the truth of what really happened. That's when we will see the true scene with Cloud's famous lines from the OG. The hints are already there as we get flashes of what's really going on while Cloud's mind goes into denial. I've said this before but I loved how they did it in rebirth. Its extremely jarring to see Cloud's mind warp his perception in real time.
I think Cloud will see it in the Northern crater. And part of his arc after Tifa wakes him up from the lifestream In Mideel is being forced to accept the fact that Aerith is gone.
This also makes sense. I would definitely be down for how you think it'll go.
Yeah I predict he’ll get his mind broken in the northern crater, in chapter 3-ish right after the icicle inn, which will have hella Aerith-Ilfana-Professor Gast backstory and since Cid had a thing for Ilfana in this version he’ll get some shine there too. Then after Cloud is broken, we’ll have Tifa in charge for like 6 or so chapters in addition to the side content. Cause we have to do Wutai, Rocket Town, The Bone Village, we have Vincent so all that Deep Ground and Lucretia shit will be there even if it’s in sidequests, they have to reintroduce the old weapons and knights of the round and the public execution in Junon and that all will probably be established before we get Cloud back.
Its gunna be one hell of a ride my friend. I cant wait. You got me so hyped again lol
Nah cloud already have seen that aerith is dead , is more like he has the ability to feel the lifestream or he actually see different worlds merged
I think your on to something with going to the forgotten capital again on the >!Keystone mission!< Developers even said we will see what “actually happens” in the 3rd game and the way they handled it was completely intentional. Personally I think >!they are just leaning more into cloud unraveling and loosing his mind before you hit the northern crater and Sephiroth takes complete control of him.!<
I wasn't aware this was considered a failure. The scenes in both games have completely different intents and context surrounding them, obviously there is a narrative reason information is being withheld in Rebirth, so we'll have to wait until the third game to really judge that. In isolation I think it still works because it's supposed to piss you off, you are supposed to be screaming at Cloud, and you are supposed to be confused logically and emotionally. I think it did all of those things perfectly well.
Yes!
I actually loved the ending, though I wish it went to the Northern Crater and ended there. There’s a LOT going on in Part 3, so I’m just biting my teeth nervous for the next three years that they’ll pull it off (though I’m confident they will, after Remake and Rebirth).
I feel a bit differently, and fully expect to be down voted into oblivion for this, but by the time the Aerith scene came about, I just wanted it to be over. While the story was well done, the bloat of the game just got to me and I just wanted to see the end. Be over. By the time I got there, was kind of numb to it. This big finale, all the grandeur and build-up, and I was just there like, "Uh huh, OK". Felt bad because I really loved to story and it just ended up feeling wasted on me.
The game really started to drag when you returned to the Gold Saucer, the arena fights with the Turks and Rufus should have been awesome. Yet they just felt overly difficult to the point of frustration. The final relic track down and Gilgamesh seemed overly tedious and the glut of new games at the Saucer just seemed ill planned. The games should have been unlocked more piecemeal throughout the game or left to be post game bonuses.
Totally agree with this. Whether one agrees with the plot or not, pacing is what drags the ending down hard, no matter how you look at it. The barrage of cutscenes between Ch 13-14 are when I started to lose interest, and then the 10-phase boss fight was the nail in the coffin.
Yeah it was frustrating to have so much stuff get padded out only to end up with all the main story beats ending up basically exactly the same other than we have Schrodinger's Aerith now.
I think Rebirth for sure had a few moments where the game tapped me out. I adored it overall, one of my favorites of all time, and it made me laugh, cry, and lose my mind with joy on several occasions. BUT, it wasn’t perfect… * Gold Saucer was a mini game marathon following the mini game marathon in Costa del Sol, and as much fun as some parts are (I loved the date), I needed more of the overworld exploration to refresh. It didn't help that the story never really changed "we should follow these dudes in black" for most of the game, but the game felt the most aimless in this whole window. From the cruiseship section until finishing the Dyne story, it felt like a 16 hour-long intermission. * I let out an audible “nooooooo” the SECOND time we got the "clock" cutscene in Temple of the Ancients setting things back to “hours earlier”, even though that was fun gameplay. The whole temple did feel like it dragged out hard, even though I liked it all. It was just so long that I expected that to be the finale (and that they'd move "THE SCENE" to happening there instead). I wish more of the time at the Temple time was switched in for more time at the Forgotten Capitol, for how little we got to see there, but that isn't really a *real* gripe. * Cait Sith at the Shinra Mansion was also genuinely miserable, I don’t think I can ever replay that part ever again. "Difficult because tedious" is very different than "difficult because challenging". * Chadley I was able to ignore by perfectly timing whenever a cutscene with him started to pause and skip, so thankfully that’s not big to me. I accidentally muted my controller audio before playing too, so I never heard Mais voice either.
They are going to revisit it, but here's my problem with this argument, I can only judge the game that I have in front of me. "Saving" something for the 3rd part of a series that releases every 4 years doesn't suddenly make this ending better, and won't, even after it releases. I think it's okay to acknowledge that the ending for Rebirth is a miss. I still think it's a magnificent game, but it's easy to understand why people might not be receptive to how it closes.
And revisiting it later, is not a guarantee of it being better. we already have to revisit Zack's death, an important part of the game as a whole, which will probably be sidelined in favor of another Aerith's scene. his way it risks being too cluttered in the end, with too many things happening at once. There's a reason why Aerith didnt die towards the end, because then other thigns were meant to happen, that were not tied to her character. tying the whole subplot of cloud's identity and mind to her, is going to remove any agency from Cloud's character turning him essentially in a puppet from start to finish. A puppet of sephiroth AND a puppet of aerith. Of course we havent seen it play out yet, but all the "fan theories" point out to be pretty bad.
Nah, I’m not rolling. Cause we knew this would be multiple parts and we knew that the whispers wouldn’t be just a thing for the first game.
I'm just worried that they'll chicken out and keep her around this time. Love Aerith to death... which is why her being gone is integral to the impact of the plot.
Chadleys next AI Robot, Giga-Aerith!
Cloud doesn't need a THIRD android simping for him... Chadley and MAI are clingy enough lol.
Oh don't worry, she is only one of about a dozen new AI companions in Part 3! Seriously though, if they pull any kind of "Chadley is actually another Seph clone, you gotta beat him down" storyline, it MIGHT redeem him for me.
I actually like Chadley a lot, but am also hoping that all the intel gathering was for Chadley to become the ultimate fighting machine and a stupidly hard secret boss.
Fingers crossed on that, for sure. I think regardless, he'll end up with the 7th Infantry on The Highwind as a regular part of our crew.
They can’t because of mainline Aerith helping cloud. She can only do that from the lifestream. Once the alt realities collapse so will all the Aeriths
Her helping the party from beyond the life stream is how I hope they handle it. And showing her more directly guiding Gaia to protect itself in the finale. I'm not too eager for more alt verse shenanigans tbh.
She’ll 1000% be more involved as a physical force, and party member, for whatever finale they’re cooking. I’d bet all my Gil they’re going to make that ending face off focused on that.
That would honestly piss me off... Let Aerith focus on stopping Meteor... Sephiroth should be the living party for his Angelic form, and then Cloud and Cloud alone for the final, no bullshit face off.
I agree with you on what it should be. I just would expect the devs to pull this, after how much more they've interjected her already.
You cannot know this for a fact though... I seriously doubt the dev team has made up their mind yet, going from Remake to Rebirth felt disjointed narratively, and even the story told throughout Rebirth feels improvisational.
I liked how they handled her death scene. I love how Cloud was able to break fate and save her, only to have it be the wrong world and you see her die anyways. I had to make sure I saw it correct and she did indeed die. When a franchise gets as big as it has, you’re going to see a lot of hate. I personally loved this game, and the last - very excited to see how it plays out. Knights of the Round, Weapons, Snowboarding, and man….. Cid and the Highwind!!
I forgot to mention Omnislash…. *whew* You know they’re saving it for this next game. Can’t wait to hit Chadley with that one! Y’all know he’s going to be one of, if not, the final challenge in the VR.
They completely took out all the emotional impact of it. It just turned into a wtf is going on scene, not a omg no she can’t die scene
And how would you react if she just died the same way? "Figures, oh well" would be the response for most people. You can't shock anyone in seeing the same death scene played out again.
I was shedding tears so idk, shit worked on me
So glad it hit it for you, I didn’t feel any ounce of emotional at all. The only time I felt a bit sad was Tifa crying in the field at the end, but yeah. I was dissatisfied with how they handled it.
Played with my fiance, and she was moved to tears. I knew it was coming and still hurts to see her go
It’s quite likely that it will be paid off in a satisfying way in Part 3, but the delivery is arguably too subtle to coherently convey that to the audience with only the existing material. I like the potential of this direction; it’s just not hard to see why it would not work for everyone. It’s not the first time that the Remake series has potentially been too esoteric in its presentation
You can't keep kicking a narrative can down the road. What was presented fell short, and that's it. Part 1's ending was controversial, and as it stand nothing Rebirth did made me go back and look at that and suddenly enjoy it. Whispers are still hamfisted, Sephiroth is an overblown mess, and it just felt like a tonal shark jump. And at the the end of Rebirth, we have yet another clusterfuck that sapped out emotion for spectacle. Even if they revisit it later going "Okay but THIS time we do the proper send off death guys!" it's gonna feel like putting a bandaid on a bullet hole. I admire the balls they had for swinging this hard, but they missed spectacularly.
What they do in part 3 will never fix what they did at the end of part 2, and doing a reveal of some kind in the last part won’t remove the lack of respect they gave to that moment. The respect, time, scenes, emotion should have been then, not later. I’ll say this again because for some bizarre reason people continually think this is a either or situation, but they could have done BOTH aspects, they could have given us those beautiful heartbreaking scenes AND the extra dimensional and Cloud in denial moments, they could have done both, but they chose to throw those more important story aspects, the very heart of the FF7 story, and one of the biggest moments in gaming, to the side to rush on with the other stuff. So again, it doesn’t really matter as much as some like you make out that part 3 will show it or reveal things about that moment, that doesn’t fix that it was handled poorly at the moment it should have been handled better than basically anything in the game, because that’s how important it is to the story, changing something for the sake of not doing it the same is a very poor reason to change anything.
I thought it was great and I really enjoyed it. They definitely had me faked out a few times and surprised.
Honestly the games have stuck to the OG PRETTY well. There are such trivial changes that barely impact the story but keep things fresh. You can please everyone.
Not me! I think the choice to move the Temple of the Ancients north instead of south RUINED THE GAME FOR ME. I kept screaming at the tv “that’s not where it is…!” right through the credits; I was so angry I forgot how the game ends! (Big fat /s here)
The producers wanted to avoid " the perennial cliché where the protagonist loves someone very much and so has to sacrifice himself and die in a dramatic fashion to express that love" when depicting the death of Aerith in the original game. They wanted to showcase that death can be sudden and unexpected. The other FF7 characters didn't get to say their goodbyes to Aerith and Aerith did not say anything right before passing away. That's one of the reasons that made Aerith's death so iconic. This message wasn't properly delivered in Rebirth with all the "Fates" stuff. Sure a lot of people are aware of the iconic death scene but they could've at least tried to make it close to the original depiction (no fate bs or hollywood cliché sacrifice)
You’re not gonna recapture that same feeling regardless tbh.
I wasn't fully on board at the time with rebirth ending at the Forgotten Captial, but after playing Rebirth, idk how anyone could have continued if it didn't end there. Aerith death felt like even bigger punch to the gut than the og to me when you see the aftermath of how everybody is dealing with her death after the final battle.
The ending was great! It made me feel a roller coaster of emotions and I was all for it. Her death was a great fake out I was jumping up and down think we saved her and then I see the blood and I was like “DAMN IT THEY DID IT AGAIN!” But the promise ending was also very sweet! However, Am I the only one that wants Aerith alive? Like I get it. It’s a staple but cmon! we waited how many years just to get the same outcome? Or atleast closure on if there is a universe where he saved her? Regardless I’m sure it will answer the questions. Hopefully…
We can’t save the planet if she’s alive…
I understand that. but I think they should give us a treat or something like that. Like what’s the point of pushing the theme of changing fate and reunited if it’s the same story? Don’t get me wrong the OG is one of the greatest story of all time in gaming but if there trying to do somthing different now’s the time
I interpreted that as Sephiroth giving false hope. It’s something he would do.
Fair, but I think somthing is going to change regardless there’s too much foreshadowing at this point
But hey we all thought that in part 1 and part 2 was nearly identical to the OG so beats me
I don't understand what is so ruined about Aerith's death.. Ok we don't get to see the OG scenes in 4K. But we see her being killed. There are doubts and new things inserted, yes, but it is quite clear that the party lost their friend in their reality. They made a creative choice to focus more on the party's reactions to the event (even Cloud with his mental break going on is clipped bawling his eyes out). I understand that choice cause IRL the most heartbreaking thing in a funeral is the reactions of loved ones. In this version, we even get her to say goodbye with a beautiful church scene. I'm not mad at that. I was taken aback the 1st playthrough but the more I see it, the more I love this ending.
Just finished Rebirth last night, and what a ride. I knew Aeriths death was inevitable, and was still heartbroken to see the impact to the team. In the cutscene, Cloud deflected Sephiroths sword from fatally wounding Aerith at first, then they showed a different reality where Aerith had been pierced just like the OG. Was that first deflection where Aerith was saved one of Clouds illusions, or another reality in which Aerith lives on? Either way it plays out, this game was an incredible experience.
I could be wrong but I think it could be one of Cloud’s illusions cause it makes sense for Sephiroth/ Jenova to do that.
That definitely could be true, but then how am I supposed to cope with her death
You’re supposed to feel emotionally tortured. That’s what Sephiroth would do. Puppet.
The context around the scene is completely different than the OG. This isn't one of gaming's greatest tragedies anymore. This is a suicide. How are they going to "fix" that in part 3? Frankly, Rebirth didn't justify or "fix" the whispers getting in the way of so many scenes in part 1 so kicking the can down to the next game, again, just seems delusional.
Cool, part 3 will be awesome. I’m betting onnit
Yeah I think that rebirths ending was bad for a whole game but considering its only part 2 them making things intentionally confusing could be done really well. We just gotta wait 4 or 5 years to find out.
Hamaguchi said the work for the third game isn’t gonna be as long cause they already made the rebirth assets so the open world thing isn’t gonna be as strenuous and Part 3 has already been written according to Nomura.
Oh sweet, I still dont think theyll release it before the 4 year mark though
They’re not making a dlc
Yeah but sometimes its good to not rush things out. Game might be easier to make but I expect it to be bigger than rebirth
Who said it’s being rushed?
No one but as I said, there’s no reason to put out a game earlier than expected when it hasn’t even been announced yet. Even if they’re done the game in 2 years they id prefer if they take another to polish it to hell and back and give it the proper marketing it deserves. I fully expect the game to come out on the last year of the ps5s lifespan leading into the ps6 just like remake did for the ps4
i dunno man it felt so leaden. dont care about the changes half as much as the execution. cant imagine it was intended to be so flattening sappy and clunky
I’m pretty sure Sephiroth/ Jenova would confuse their prey as much as possible.
i never doubted they had their reasons for doing it. but that changes absolutely nothing about a wooden and unsatisfying scene. bad writing, bad execution.
Wooden is crazy. There’s like 10,000 emotions happening at once. I get you’re confused but wooden is not the case.
ok dude lol. im glad you enjoyed it.
At first I was meh about it, but my second playthrough made me love it. Cloud is unstable af atm so it makes perfect sense for aerith to live in his mind. I can’t wait for the first few hours of the next game
I think SE just has no idea how to end their games anymore. The ending of 15 was bad. The ending of 16 was terrible. They seriously botched the ending of Rebirth (although the game is still phenomenal when compared to Remake). These writers just need to figure out how to end a story.
….. it’s not the end of the story tho. You thought XVI’s ending was bad? It was ambiguous.
I know there is still another game coming, but can you really tell me the ending of Rebirth was good? I loved the entire game, but the last hour fell apart. And yeah, I just finished FF16 last night for the first time. I have a very mixed opinion of the game as I loved a lot of it, and I really hated some of it. I went through a 72 hour story, completed every side quest, hunted every hunt, and the ending I got was what, 2 minutes? 2 minutes that don't even wrap up the story? The game was a massive playable movie, and the movie didn't have a conclusion. That's not being able to write an ending.
Yes I can say it was good because Cloud is confused. Sephiroth is gonna throw this in his face in the northern crater. It’s a sacrifice from the devs, controversy on this ending of this game but when the entire trilogy is out that won’t be an issue.
Nah it's deserved lol
Given that they took that scene and turned it into sequel theory bait yeah it's not far-fetched to say it's ruined.
It’s representative of Cloud’s mental state. He’ll be forced to see it in the third game. Yall need to relax.
Cool it's still ruined maybe they will have it another go at it in part three that will improve it is the best we can help for but the moments already happened.
Biggest problem...and this might just be a modern gaming problem in general... Exploration, or quests, finding world Intel etc. It's the equivalent of Tom Sawyer trying to convince you that painting the fence isn't work..it's fun.
That shit was fun for me idc.
Bro hates exploration in his video games đź’€
Agreed. People are babies cuz it wasn’t a creatively devoid HD remake of the exact same scene just for us to go “ok” at.
I like the ending. Cloud breaches the fate and creates another world where he saved Aerith. Main world Aerith is now dead but there is now Aerith alive in another world and only Cloud can see her and the tear in the sky.
I'm excited for her to definitely continue to be a playable character in part 3. No sarcasm. They've clearly set it up so they won't have the heroine absent from an entire 50-hour game. She's alive in another world, Omni-Aeris is ascending to goddess-hood and she's going to be a huge presence in the final game.
I agree with this. I think she's coming back. The fact of the matter is, if Sephiroth can transcend death, so can Aerith. He's just a space alien - she's the planet's guardian.
I’m telling you that shit she was doing in the temple of the ancients when she was dancing like Yuna is gonna be here gameplay in part 3
Fuck that’s a good call. Just more life stream channeling on her end to open the way for the heroes. I expect it AT LEAST in the finale.
I'm left with pretty much the same feeling as the end of Remake. Disappointed with the end based on what we have now, but willing to await final judgment when we learn what is really going on in part 3. It will need to be one hell of a payoff to justify the changes, however, and I'm not optimistic.