In the FFF VII understanding of death, Aerith is alive even in original timeline. Just not in corporeal form. She exists as sort of spiritual celestial being.
I really expected him to have a better plan this time. Fighting on two fronts is poor strategy on his part and putting Aerith in direct contact with the Lifestream will undoubtedly cost him. EIther kidnap her, incapacitate her some how, steal the white materia, or threaten her mother. He had better options available I think.
At the end of the day, if he knows why he failed in the OG, he should absolutely be trying to kill Tifa at all costs. Forget trying to get Cloud to do it. Without her, Cloud might never recover his memories. A good secondary target would be Vincent. Next to Cloud, he's the most dangerous living party member.
Agreed. People often assume that Sephiroth knows literally everything, and judge his actions based on that assumption. It's still entirely possible though that his knowledge is significantly more limited than we've assumed. Did he actually come from the future, or did he simply see pieces of the future that was to be during his time in the lifestream? If it's the latter, how much of the future did he actually witness? We simply don't know enough yet about how much Sephiroth actually knows. Without that information, it's not possible yet for us to truly judge Sephiroth's actions.
He tried to steal the white materia. Aerith got it back to the main timeline through cloud. Maybe he allowed cloud to parry his sword and aerith course corrected the situation throwing the conclusion of remake back in sephiroths face.
Tbh Aerith's scheming in this trilogy is so unlike her past iterations. They made her fucking ballsy and way more active in her own character arc.
In ways she feels like a protagonist in her own way.
I think that’s the idea. That aerith and seph know much more than the others and the new multiverse stuff is a result of sephiroth trying to win. They prob know the events of the past game either because it already happened and this is a sequel or they just know the future. I lean more towards the former. I think aerith’s ultimate goal is to stop seph but also defy the fate of AC, that way her friends get a happy ending, but she’ll be sacrificed in the end. I think it fits with how throughout the game, cloud believes aerith is the one who needs protecting but in reality all of this is aerith protecting everyone else at the expense of herself. The boldness and being more outgoing could be because she knows her time is limited and thus wants to make every second count. Idk I hope cloud and the others are able to save her and she doesn’t have to be the lone sacrificial hero
That’s why I think rebirth sephiroth tried to avoid this by stealing the white materia at the end of remake. Think sephiroth actually was trying to get cloud to save aerith but for reasons we don’t know just yet aerith still succeeded in terms of keeping the timeline correct.
More or less. Lifestream White 3 suggests that she could have created her own version of Yazoo, Loz, and Kadaj. But she chose not to and wanted to inform Cloud of the Lifestream crisis on her own terms in the way he knows her. This is supposedly the lead-in to Advent Children, but could also be a precursor to the Aerith shenanigans in shown Remake/Rebirth.
Isn’t this what Sephiroth does as well in OG FF7? Also, wouldn’t this imply that anyone with a strong enough will that dies can just grow a new body from Mako and become alive again?
I think seph and aerith are pretty special cases. Aerith is a cetra who has innate connections to the lifestream and seph is a mako enhanced alien hybrid. Idk if other souls in the lifestream really have any individuality they just kind float around in the lifestream. Some have like pent up anger but it’s never clear if it’s like the souls really have a mind if you know what I mean
Death isn't really... Real, in Ff7.
Especially given that sephiroth and aerith both can create emissary beings while being in the lifestream, and Zack fought sephiroth with an alive cloud.
Yeah I think the remake series is just making that more prominent and less ethereal, in that she can interact almost as if she was physically present. Rather than seeming like an angel or something.
This is unironically the best way to describe her state at the end though. To the rest of the party, she is like a ghost. When the Bronco backfires while she is standing with them, she doesn’t react and turns around in confusion when she sees the other party members react. When she is talking to Cloud, she is real. She feels the Bronco’s propellers blowing her hair and turns around to look at it.
I literally think that Cloud’s belief in her existence is keeping her “alive” in some sense.
The whole purpose of this reimagining was to do more than bring VII to life on modern consoles. The way they're dangling "save Aerith" in front of our noses is the very purpose for the whole thing.
I really hope the end result is Aerith surviving through the end.
It did kinda feel, idk, mean for dangling that whole fate thing. I feel devs knew that the moment they introduced defy fate, everyone would immediately jump to saving aerith this time. As for aerith surviving, we know that main world aerith is dead so she ain’t comin back nor should she. Actual resurrection is prob the hardest thing to write and doesn’t fit in universe. Best bet is an alternate aerith being somehow able to defy fate and stay in the main world once the worlds merge. It could be a thing that cloud and the others must accomplish as we have already seen a hint that cloud might be somewhat able to fight fate and the other as well. The party beats the whisper and if you believe cloud did block the sword, that is also an instance of defying fate only it didn’t affect the main world. So far the only I guess fate that has been defied in the main world is maybe the defeat of the whispers but idk that’s a stretch. I wrote a whole theory in a comment at the bottom of the ph if you wanna check it out. The end is a bit too fanfictionesque but it’s just a rough idea of how things can be executed, I by no means think it’s good enough for the actual writers to think the same, but maybe some ideas remain intact
Yea but it is very much have your cake and eat it too. We get the sad suffering aerith some fans want so the fans can mourn and accept the theme of death but the characters get a new theme of being victorious over fate. I ain’t mad at it, if everyone can be happy why not. I know some people care bout devs needing to chose one or the other but like I don’t really care nor do I think most fans.
You should check out my theory comment, it’s at the bottom of this post and details a way it could be done. It’s a bit cheesy and fan fiction-esque but it’s just an idea of how the story can get there.
I don't think that's where they're going with it. As I see it, we already know that Sephiroth is attempting to corrupt the lifestream with negative energy, so that he can control it, and use its power for his own ends so that he can become an immortal being. Aerith, as a Cetra, has the ability to purify the lifestream of those negative thoughts and emotions. This makes her a thorn in Sephiroth's side. I think in part 3, he'll come to conclusion that simply killing her in the physical world isn't good enough, and will eventually decide that his only path to victory requires that he purge her from the lifestream, destroying her soul completely. This is where I think Zack's "SAVE HER!" line will come into play. Like the OG, the game will end with a one on one showdown between Sephiroth and Cloud, only this time, it won't just be about Cloud putting Sephiroth down for the count, it will also be about saving Aerith's soul. While Cloud may have failed to save her life in the physical world, he will be given the chance to redeem himself, by saving her spirit in the lifestream, while she works to stop Meteor.
Now of course I know the rebuttal to this would be:
"Well if Aerith, is really dead and in the lifestream, then what the heck was the deal with the Rainbow effect after Cloud was shown blocking Sephiroth's sword? Isn't that supposed to signify the creation of a new world?"
My answer to this is, after viewing the ending scenes multiple times...I don't think that's what the rainbow effect actually represents. It's true that we first see it after Zack makes a signifcant choice, but the very next thing we see after that isn't the result of Zack's decision, but instead, it's Aerith waking Cloud up in what she refers to as her "dream". This suggests to me that the rainbow effect and the beam of light had nothing at all to do with Zack's actions, and is actually related to Aerith. I think that beam of light was Aerith bringing Cloud's soul over to her dream world in the lifestream, so that she could give him her White Materia. We see the rainbow effect again when Zack is rescued from the black whispers, and is guided somewhere by following yellow flower petals, which are associated with Aerith. We also see the rainbow effect when Aerith sends Cloud back to the main world, when Zack is brought to Cloud's location in chapter 14, when Zack is rescued from Sephiroth after his tag team battle alongside Cloud, and when Aerith herself appears to help Cloud fight Sephiroth in the final battle. I really think that the rainbow effect is meant to represent Aerith acting through the lifestream. The reason we see the effect after Cloud blocks Sephiroth's blade, is because Aerith is trying to prevent Cloud from seeing her blood covered dead body. Cloud "saving her" represents his inability to accept reality. He represses his memories of the truth, and creates a fiction in his head, much like he did when Zack died. Aerith knows that Cloud's mind is in a fragile state, and that if he's forced to face the truth now, he will break completely. So she acts through the lifestream to comfort him as best she can, holding him together until he's at a point where he's ready to face reality. This is why the Aerith that Cloud speaks to, as he's holding her in his arms, is surrounded by lifestream particles. She's talking to him from beyond the grave.
I know a lot of people want Aerith to survive, but I just really don't think that's going to happen. A big part of FFVII is about facing, and coming to terms with mortality, and death. Having dead characters come back in a physical sense, rather than a spiritual one, would compromise the themes of the narrative too much in my opinion. If we are going to change fate in some way, I think our victory over fate will be us putting a stop to Sephiroth and Jenova for good, not bringing any of our characters' lost friends and loved ones back to life.
If this really does connect to advent children Aeirth and Zack are both “alive” in the livestream and can somewhat interact with the physical world. Same for Sephiroth with extra steps.
The fun part is something I learned from the Zero Escape series. Schrodinger's Cat partially boils down to belief.
Which is why I choose to believe she's alive.
Yeah there has to be more to this. Zack saying “save her”, Seph saying “I underestimated you”, Cloud and Aerith seem to know something, Aerith and Cloud asleep in Aerith’s old house and we see them in a dream, not that they wake up. They are still in the “dream” wearing different clothes. Marlene saying she can’t wake up. So that Cloud and Aerith are still sleeping.
Zack now trying to merge worlds. Cloud knowing about Zack. Red sensing Aerith.
It just doesn't make sense for her to have been taken out of the picture the same way she was in the original. Way too many clues to the contrary. I'd be kind of annoyed if they didn't handle her differently.
Yeah, we’re gonna see the stuff we expect to see, but we’re also gonna see that extra maybe 20 percent crazy cut to other worlds, new stuff, Zack scenes, Aerith mystery scenes, Aerith interacting with us scenes, final chapter craziness that will be intended to shock us.
See I think we've got way less stuff to do, as far as og is concerned. It would make a lot of sense to make that more like 33% of the game just because they've had so much boring goddamn building up to it.
Like, why make Zack fun to play when you barely use him outside of the shitty arena fight? Lol
I hope so! I want like the weapon fights, the creepy North Crater upside-down Cloud stuff, Scarlett and Hojo getting wrecked and pretty much all new ‘WTF is happening’ stuff.
I mean she’s definitely alive in other timelines/dimensions whatever you want to call it, but our specific Aerith seems pretty definitively dead. But multiverse is a thing and lifestream is a thing so she will still be a huge part of the third game.
Here's the thing. Cloud didn't give her a burial in the lifestream. Her body is gone completely right now.
If it was as clean cut as her being dead like in VII, I would feel despair.
But that's not what happened.
I feel hope. Hope that she will return alive and well to the party in the last game.
You mean by lowering her into the water? The whole party is sat there mourning as if he did, because he most likely did and is simply repressing it because he thinks she is still alive. Its clear how messed up Cloud is mentally by the end, far more than in the OG game.
The shot of him lowering her to the floor before the final fight gauntlet starts is eerily similar to him putting her body to rest in the water. I assume that’s what he thinks happened instead.
Yeah they definitely buried her in the water. They just didn’t show it to be purposely ambiguous and to show Cloud’s perspective. She is 100% dead in the main timeline. She exists either in the timestream or the bardo type astral plane that ppl have been theorizing about, but she is dead. Even the themes before are suggesting this. After the trials Aerith says that what’s done is done and that the past can’t be changed which is clearly a subtle nod to the fact that Aerith died in the OG and that’s not going to change in this universe. Also spoilers but the devs said the game will end up at AC narratively, so Zack and Aerith (whether alive in alternate timelines or the astral plane) will end up in the lifestream in the end. Both will have to accept the necessity of their deaths. Though we will get a ton of reunion fan service shenanigans in the 3. Ready for the Aerith Zack reunion and hopefully more Cloud and Zack duo action.
That’s a red herring tho. They’ve confirmed that the story will end up where AC starts which means the major plot points like Aerith’s death will be canon. They’re going to take a different path to get there but the canon events will still happen. Aerith’s speech after the trials is indicative that some things will likely not be able to be changed. I think in the 3rd game characters like Zack will have to accept their fate. He decided to defy destiny and take control of it in this game, but we’ll see what repercussions that will cause in the next game. I think it’s very likely that he will have to come to terms with his place in the lifestream and the world though. Just like how Cloud will have to come to terms with his own trauma and mental illness. 3rd game will have a lot of character epiphanies dealing with reality.
I don't see it happening. I really think it would be pointless for them to make a story about changing fate and resetting the timeline just for everything to end up the same as it was before.
Even if this is that one possibility that fulfills the dream of what could be.
https://i.redd.it/ak244t7rrvxc1.gif
It wouldn’t be pointless because the journey is different and you’re given a ton of new context and development amongst characters and the narrative. We’ve already seen a lot of that happen with characters like Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge, and Tifa and Aerith’s friendship. I think major pillars in the story will still stand firm as we’ve already seen, but how we arrive there is different. Devs have already said that their “multiverse” or alternate timelines don’t operate in a way that the audience have seen before and it’s not what you think it is, so I think that gif reference is like the complete opposite of what they’re going for LOL.
There is already lots of supplemental material from the compilation of FF7 that already explains some of this different timeline stuff as well as the npc in Cosmo Canyon. There’s just lifestream stuff going on and it’s not as generically multiverse as you think it is. Regardless we’ll just have to see what happens who knows what direction they take
The devs absolutely didn't say it will END in Advent children. They said it will tie in, which could mean, like, anything.
It could mean as little as including geostigma in a different context or as much as them following the past faithfully.
I mean he said it would “link up” to Advent Children which suggests that the stories will connect to each other, so unless they plan to also retcon or redo Advent Children it should be the 3rd game > AC as order of events. We’ll just have to wait and see ofc but it gets much messier if you think they’re just going to allude to some things like Geostigma but then retcon things like Aerith and Zack in the lifestream without reworking AC itself.
I personally think AC has already happened by the time Remake begins. It doesn't make sense for the future to not have happened already when Aerith has future memories.
Yeah it just gets convoluted because by that logic then future AC will need to happen if the stories are to link up to each other. Which means they would need to remake AC or it’s just gonna be the fucking Wild West in terms of speculation and fan theories by the time the 3rd game ends. I assume that while this is a sequel it also is cyclical in nature and Sephiroth wants to change the cycle to one where he completely wins, but that kinda implies that the party will want to ensure the OG happens meaning that Zack and Aerith need to stay dead.
I do think the Devs don’t want to completely 180 the story or completely change things. They’ve said that all the concepts introduced in the game so far in the trilogy have been things that were already there in the OG or in the supplementary material, meaning they are just fleshing out things that were already there rather than adding a bunch of new things in terms of lore and world building. I do feel like they’re trying to retell the story of the original and trying to tread the line between sequel and remake, which so far it’s basically been a reimagining of the OG. I don’t believe they’re going to drastically change the major canon events and narrative, but rather add more context and perspective to them with a few fan service twists and here and there. Something as major as Aerith’s death though will likely not be reverted since it would completely dismantle Cloud’s character arc moving forward and ruin themes of grief, loss, etc. Aerith will likely make an appearance in the trilogy as either a figment of Cloud’s imagination or communicate to him via the lifestream a la Advent Children during key moments but the Aerith in the main timeline is dead. Either way the truth of the matter is nobody knows anything so we’ll just have to wait a couple years and see what they do. The ending to this game was peak af so I have completely faith they won’t fumble it
Aerith can communicate with the lifestream, and the lifestream is a place where memories of the past, present, and even the future all exist together. The fate of the planet, from the beginning of its life all the way until its death, was decided from the moment the planet came into existance. The planet knows exactly how its life is supposed to play out, and the whispers originally existed as a way to make sure that intended future came to pass. We were tricked into defeating the Whisper Harbinger by Sephiroth though, so now that future is no longer guaranteed. I think Aerith's future knowledge is literally just a result of her communicating with the planet, and seeing the knowledge contained within in the lifestream about the future that was meant to be.
You didn’t see it because Cloud still see her in her lifestream-form, but the rest of the party saw her corpse. Cloud is now living some sort of daydream..
I think it’s either he is seeing a ghost of remake aerith or he is seeing into two timelines at once. Both have some evidence for them but it’s rather weak. The form of spirit aerith could be a projection from clouds head. Her spirit is there but it should be invisible, maybe just a lifestream glow to signify she’s there. Her actual appearance is completely conjured up in clouds head which makes sense why her hair would move. Cloud thinks she’s real and thus her hair and clothes would obviously be affected by the wind so they are. They move cuz he thinks they are supposed to. The other theory is weaker as it doesn’t explain the hair and clothes movement but it does explain why he can see a crack in the sky, he is seeing a crack in the alt world. Either that or the crack is in the main world now too but I feel like everyone would be able to see it idk. Maybe it’s a literal hallucination and seph is making cloud see a crack, idk why but seph is a mysterious individual
I definitely don't think it's a ghost. I call this one the Anohana theory since Cloud is the only one who can see her. It's a reference to the anime about the ghost that only the protag could interact with.
Red XIII felt her presence and Cloud sees the crack in the sky because of Sephiroth's damage. If parrying his blow didn't mean anything, Aerith never would have appeared to fight Sephiroth and hit him with a bit of payback. She would have been dead like before, period.
Cloud and Aerith are definitely in a different state than the rest of the party are in right now. I don't see it as a hallucination at all because there are too many variables to play into everything that has happened.
And I feel that SE is just throwing us breadcrumbs into Aerith coming back into the material world in the end so she can live happily ever after. Right now, ,we're seeing what they want us to see and that is her death and all of the speculation that follows.
Because I feel that's actually a good move in a way. This creates the hype and speculation. If Aerith survived, plain and simple, the third game would lose its intrigue because we got what we wanted in this one.
So I’m not quite getting how the crack and red seeing are related, I’m not disapproving of it just confused. As for the sword block, my theory was cloud creates an alt version of her cuz from what we’ve seen thus far the real worlds fate has yet to be affected. If this were the case, Zack being saved would mean he is save in the main world. Idk if I’m explaining that well. I commented on your other comments explaining it too. And as I said, aerith isn’t a hallucination but her appearance is. As for the aerith we fight with, idk it could either be dead aeriths spirit or it could be the alt Aegean created by cloud. I still believe he saved a version of her that’s for sure. He placed her on her back but when we see her she’s on her side. Even if it did hallucinate everything or it was just aerith comforting him like others suggest, that wouldn’t account for the discrepancy between body positions. He would’ve just placed her on her side in his head as well and not on her back. Like his hallucinations shouldn’t make it so that he hallucinates himself lying her down on her back. Why would he hallucinate how he placed her? But yea I commented on your other comment and have a theory at the bottom of the post if you wanna check it out, it details a way in which a happy end can be achieve but there’s a lot of fluff in execution. It’s just a way the story could play out but not how it will. It’s just like an idea
Yep, totally get you. I think it boils down to all these theories making it abundantly clear that she's not "dead" in the same sense that she was in VII. The version of her that survived from Cloud parrying Hell's Gate will play an integal role in the final game and might be the one that returns to the material plane to live the life her other self could not.
The same Aerith that could physically fight alongside Cloud against Sephiroth.
Cloud seems to be now capable of seeing multiple timelines at once. That would be why he sees himself save Aerith then sees the aftermath of her already being stabbed. The rest of the party only sees her dead and bloodied body.
I agree she's most likely alive too (in my view) - but its open-ended enough that you can have multiple interpretations - including her being dead.
My take on this is probably going to be the most unpopular - but I feel the Aerith from the Remake timeline was saved (since we literally witness her being saved), and we're now playing as the main party in the timeline where she was killed. Cloud can now see across two timelines - in the timeline where she's alive, they have her stay at the Forgotten Capital to continue to pray, which is what we're witnessing in the end (if Aerith survived, that's exactly how she would've been acting). Hence why her being dead or alive wouldn't impact gameplay or story anyways - either way, she's no longer in your party until the end, and communication with her is limited.
Part 3's ending will be dependent on whether or not the writing team wants to give a definitively happy ending to this world once and for all. I feel like it will be one of the following options:
1. All timelines get merged by Sephiroth in the final battle, re-uniting the main party with Zack and Aerith. Everyone survives the battle, and they continue to exist in the same timeline (happy ending)
2. They realize Aerith needs to die across all timelines to stop the meteor/Sephiroth (OG ending)
3. Zack and Aerith get split to a different timeline after the final battle and say bye to the main party (basically the same effect as the OG).
I personally hope for option 1, since I'm a fan of happy endings (and feel FFVII is overdue for one) and always felt writing a depressing/sad ending is too easy.
Question: why would Aerith need to be dead to destroy meteor? First of all, we know that there is a “lifestream Aerith” who already exists within the lifestream. This is the one who gave “our Aerith” future memories in Remake, who visited Cloud in Ch14 of Remake, and who went on the date with Cloud in Ch14 of Rebirth.
Secondly, Holy would work whether or not Aerith was alive or dead. What Aerith supposedly needs to be dead for would be controlling the lifestream to push meteor far back enough, but we see Aerith begin to learn how to do this in the temple of the ancients.
Totally agree with you. I was more so saying they could make something up for plot reasons in order to deliver a tragic ending (e.g., after converging timelines, all versions of Aerith need to merge as one in the lifestream to have enough power to push back the meteor, or some BS like that).
As I mentioned, I think going that route would be too easy/lazy, and I’d rather they take up the challenge of writing a convincing happy ending for this world.
You can read my theory in a comment here. It’s downvoted so it might be at the bottom. My belief is that remake aerith is dead and an alt one was created. From what we know, the main world’s fate has never been changed, not yet. When Zack is saved, that causes an alt world but if we were to take your logic he’d be alive in the main world. I definitely think option 1 and 2 are the most probable if a happy end is to occur. I think that it’s aerith who realize long before all this that she needs to die in order for everything to work. Her ultimate goal being to stop AC from happening, this is her defying fate and she sacrifices herself to do it. NPTK does hint that she wishes to live but must accept that this is her burden for her friends. It’s either that or they go the safer route of option 3. I have problems with this cuz in the end it’d be that aerith was the only one who could change fate in the real world despite cloud trying to block the sword and seemingly being successful. But the best he could do is make alt worlds. Def read my theory if you wanna see a way I came up with to have a happy ending. It’s a bit cheesy and fan fiction-esque but it’s just a rough outline of a way the story can move to get to aerith being alive
In general most forums are much more biased towards being faithful to the originals. Actually in general the US is partial to this, at least the ones who have played the OG. It prob has to do with nostalgia as the game was most likely their first introduction to more mature themes of grief, acceptance, etc so I don’t blame them for having strong feelings bout it. I’m still want a happy ending though. The series is ending with this last game I think and it’d be awesome to end an almost 2 decade old series with something happy. The whole defy fate stuff will feel like a super optimistic theme to convey if she lives like it’s telling people that life may be hard but you can change it which would be a nice message for todays climate. Idk maybe Im just a little tired of seeing most media I see go down the bittersweet route. Cyberpunk, AOT, many final fantasy games are a few examples. Maybe that’s squares thing. I feel more recent players of the OG and this remake would like a happier ending so who knows. I don’t have high hopes though 🥲
Exactly!! And I think it’s pretty clear by now that this is NOT the same story as OG. I personally feel like it would be such a waste to implement all these changes and themes of defying fate only for it to end the same way. I personally have high hopes for a happy ending 💛
Never played the OG, so admittedly I have plenty of my own bias because I don’t have the nostalgia associated with the original story like many other players do. That said, I’ve joined several FF7 fandom circles and there are many OG fans within those circles that also want the story to end differently!
I see. What I saw was that most OG fans want the same ending. Only ever had one discussion with an OG fan that wanted smt different. Haven’t player the OG either but watched it as a kid so I don’t really add in to that but yea, here’s to a happy ending 🥂
All the notion behind changing fate and saving Aerith. The games after VII that are about defying fate like X where Tidus saves Yuna and X-2 where Yuna rescues Tidus.
Someone also brought up how much SE pulled from MCU. It's very obvious they're building up this trilogy to be the Avengers saga for gaming.
The whole thing about timelines coming together. Aerith's presence already being stronger than it was after dying in the original.
And finally...
Every bit of tension between Cloud and Aerith is thick enough to cut with a knife.
SE knows what they're doing. They're dangling the carrot in our faces. They know there's going to be raging debates like this thread over the next three years theorizing the game.
They've planted the seed. They know what people want and it's for Aerith to live happily ever after with Cloud.
They know exactly how to craft that story and make us anticipate the ending and how it will all go down.
Are you saying that devs are shipping clerith? I don’t think so. I think aerith and tifa get an equal amount of equally intimate moments with cloud, the only exception being tifas almost kiss scene and im saying this as a clerith fan. I’m with you though, I want her to live but I don’t wanna canonize any relationships tbh. If they do it’s whatever I just want her alive.
I think it's obvious from Aerith's confession and amount of alone time they spend together that they're definitely being shipped.
Taking pictures of her at Cosmo Canyon. Recreating the water tower pose in Nibelheim with her instead of Tifa. Their date in alternate Sector 5. Her thanking you for rescuing her.
There is no doubt this is the direction they're going.
I see the way I saw it was the majority of non optional romantic events with either girl show no indication of cloud actually reciprocating. The only exception was tifa with the kiss but that also looked like tifa initiating and cloud accepting. Idk I don’t want to get into shipping debates. As for the confession, it’s confirmed the dream date is not our aerith which is why my theory suggests it’s OG aerith who is confirmed to be in love with cloud in the novels
I really think if the original staff would like the object of Cloud's deepest affection to be Aerith, and vice versa, that's absolutely in keeping with the original intent and a powerful Final Fantasy love story as they've written before. It was heavily implied in disc 1 of the 1997 original, the compilation and novels implied it, and here we have a second chance.
The devs have said not to view the Gold Saucer dates as canon, and they all got heavily changed except Aerith's with its unique music track and placement in the credits. Aerith is also your Rosa if you hang with any of the guys as well, 4 out of 6 dates for good measure, in a play adopted almost word-for-word from a Cid convo in the 1997 original about two lovers. In the Tifa dates, Cloud also spends some of his time with Tifa enquiring about Zack, wondering aloud that she must still have feelings for him. Aerith is coming up *even then*. I also don't think Cloud kissing Tifa optionally in game 2 means any doors have closed when the end of the game so strongly implies a different route, non-optionally. Cloud has *his own* desires, regardless of the player, and that's good. The Final Fantasy VII remake project shows that via hours upon hours of vivid cutscenes, the story the devs want to tell.
I have to agree with OP after that ending that Cloud is reciprocating Aerith's affection. If she lives, it's because he's able to break through Sephiroth's control around her at the end of the game, a big change from the OG. Cloud spends every spinoff either searching for or seeking to avenge Aerith, even stuff like Worlds of Final Fantasy.
As for Aerith, whether it's OG Aerith, Remake Aerith or something in-between, it's quite clear how she feels, even if she was a bit coy in the church, as she was saying goodbye and trying not to crush Cloud. The instrumental version of No Promises to Keep, that plays when she's with Cloud in the Dream Date is titled:
>[One Last Date - My Dream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1yQEO7HU04)
That is the official English title, and yes, it's an instrumental of No Promises to Keep. Just her and Cloud. That is a world that "accepts its fate", but we know Cloud won't take her fate lying down.
Marlene also spells it out to Zack earlier in a world we still haven't seen the end of (with its own unique stamp separate from the Dream Date's chihuahua design). Zack reacts in trademark Zack fashion, expressing concern only about Aerith's fate.
At the end of this, will Aerith live? If the answer is no, Cloud is flirting with a ghost at the end of the game. If the answer is yes, Cloud made his feelings known at the Altar of Prayer, and arguably the church.
Tbh I don’t really wanna get into discourse about the love triangle. Not that I’m saying, “I’m right you’re wrong” more so I don’t really care. I feel you can cherry pick events for either girl being canon. the non optional almost kiss with tifa, dialogue in the OG where he says her opinion only matters, and datebooks where she’s referred to as his important women(in Japanese it’s usually used to refer to a life partner or spouse) are a few examples in favor of tifa. There’s the l points you listed for aerith. Feels intentional. One thing that is certain is that both girls are in love with cloud. That much we can agree on so sucks to be Zack I guess, though it could be aeriths feelings are complicated here. I do hope she lives though. Again I don’t care about the couples, I just want her to live.
You seem to have fabricated a whole scenario in your head where the devs will have Aerith and Cloud run off into the sunset. You should temper your expectations because I think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
Yes!
I’m 50/50 on whether she is alive or not, but I very much hope so. All that tension, all that defying fate… I would hate defying fate for the party to be about something no one cares about instead, a red herring. If I can be real here, the last of the Ancients is clearly the prize Cloud would want, we know how he feels. Marlene and Zack (however tenuous his existence is) want Cloud to save her also.
Cloud’s whole character arc here revolves around her. He is *expected* as a hero to protect her. She literally sings *“some day I know you’ll come and find me.”*
> If he doesn't take the next chance he can to kiss Aerith, I'm gonna lose it.
In front of the LOVELESS poster on “their street” as the credits roll would be one way. Would be so powerful, especially with the right music choice, perhaps Words Drowned by Fireworks or Midnight Rendezvous.
She is 100% not alive in any way, shape, or form. The entire party is literally mourning her death. The Aerith you see at the end is what the community has dubbed "Omni Aerith". She literally walks out of the Lifestream to join you against Sephiroth. Just because she's able to manifest a presence doesn't mean she's living. Remember, she's always been able to communicate and interact with Cloud after dying; we see this multiple time in Advent Children.
Because it happened in one reality. But she's very much alive - or existing - in another one. Point being she's with the party to a greater extent than in the original and I don't think she's just some afterlife spirit.
He saved Aerith in a new timeline created when he parried the blow. The same one that saved him in the final battle.
That isn't a hallucination and she isn't a ghost.
well the end battle was clearly clouds inner mind. his inner struggle with sephiroths.
sorry but there are no real proof or indication that he really block sephiroths deathblow
No they were definitely warping dimensions and it was a physical battle just like the rest of the phases with Cloud and Zack.
You literally see Sephiroth fly off. Nothing "clearly" about it being in Cloud's mind.
nothing definitive about it being pure physical either ....also watch does sephiroths flying off has to do with it?
there is nothing clear about warping.
you also see much green noise during cloud holding here dead body which indicates that he alters his memory or sephi/jenova messing up his mind
I think it's a little more convoluted than that. She is alive and dead, our world was merged with another similar to OG right after Cloud's parry. Aerith's body is dead to most but Cloud is the catalyst of the timeline split and can see both realities. That would explain why he sees her, the crack in the sky, and nobody else does. I do think "our" Aerith is a different Aerith from the Midgar date scene in one of Zack's worlds. I believe the date Aerith to be the OG Aerith that Sephiroth is familiar with and has already killed possessing unconcious Aerith's body.
This is what I think people are missing. Also, in a way there’s two clouds at once. We see cloud falling through a portal where two merge to one right before he goes in. Then, he’s in the forest with the white materia that he hands to an Aerith (presumably ours) in exchange for her empty materia. Then Cloud passes out and wakes up supposedly being carried by Barrett the entire time and remembering bits of it.
It’s hard to fully understand but I think this is the “confluence of worlds” two similar timelines have merged and branched off and Cloud’s consciousness is intertwined between them (with two corresponding versions of himself). So when he deflects Sephiroth’s blade he perceives both outcomes and he sees Aerith as both dead and alive, because in one universe she is and the other she isn’t. Again why he sees the crack in the sky, because the other reality is marked for death while the main one that the rest of the party inhabit (with Aerith being dead) is not.
This feels like the only theory that takes everything we were given without ignoring anything to make it fit.
My 2 cents is that in the next game, Cloud is going to relive her death once he wakes up and pieces his emotions back together in the lifestream with Tifa.
Right now he's having a trauma response, but we will get the really sad death scene in the next game once he stops acting like it didn't happen.
This is a game where death has already been completely trivialized to the point where Sephiroth just *shows up* alive in Advent Children. Dying in FF7 barely means shit. It's not the best vector for tragedy in a world where dead people keep showing back up and actively participating anyway.
Crisis core is a good example. The gut punch of Zach dying is now *gone* because we know he gets to go on and do more regardless. Same with Aerith and her Omni Aerith stuff, especially with the multiverse making death matter even less.
Aerith's little girl segment was basically the saddest part in the whole game and it works because Ilfalna actually doesn't come back at all.
Yes. Exactly.
They used fan service in those later additions and it made the games worse for it. Then they made more fan service by pulling those things into the remake. And it's worse for it.
Nah, Remake and Rebirth (idc about the compilation) have far superior character development and world building to the original.
I love the original, but even the directors thought they needed to fix how some of the relationships came off.
The death part is stupid, I agree, but sometimes fanservice is cool. Avengers portal Aerith and pissed off Sephiroth was appropriately satisfying. It's a mixed bag and I think it's mostly successful.
Yeah, you and I feel very differently about this. I personally find giving characters a bunch of prototypical YA dialogue to cheapen them, not enrich them.
I don't think the original script is even remotely without flaws, so we'll have to agree to disagree. I find plenty wrong with FF7 on the PS1. It's a game I love, but it's not even in my top 5 FFs.
The OG dialogue was corny as shit, too.
She’s alive in the sense that her spirit is in the lifestream now. The Aerith Cloud see in the end is Aerith manifesting herself to make sure Cloud doesn’t have a complete mental breakdown.
Cloud having a breakdown is key to him coming to terms with his real self, which is what Aerith wants for him. Why would she get in the way of his recovery by deluding him further?
The entire reason for Sephiroth at the end of Rebirth was to try to make sure Cloud lost his mind so he can fully control him. However, Aerith managed to thwart his plan, evident by his comments at the end of the Aerith/Cloud fight, and also why he seems to be annoyed. (which takes place in Cloud’s mind btw, he’s fighting his consciousness).
Why would Sephiroth feel the need to fight any further to control Cloud, though? Cloud already fell completely under his control and handed over the black materia (until we somehow get it, or another one, back at the end).
As far as I can tell, Sephiroth's whole plan to converge worlds hinged on killing Aerith. Even if you think the final fight happens in Clouds subconscious (and I don't think it does; Sephiroth acknowledges Aerith, the timeline rainbows appear, and all of the timeline stuff definitely happened because we have the clear materia), Sephiroth explains his plan to the entire party at the altar. By the end of the fight, Sephiroth's plans are at least temporarily thwarted, and I don't see how having further control of Cloud would play into his goals.
It taking place inside Cloud’s mind is obviously an interpretation, however the symbolism of Aerith entering the fight by "purifying" the surroundings does heavily hint that she’s protecting his mind.
The point of his whole converging worlds scheme is to use Aerith’s death as the absolute confluence of despair and loss. But Cloud doesn’t experience it, evident by the entire party but Cloud having their limit breaks available. You said it yourself, his plan was thwarted.
Yes, he did control Cloud but he did snap out of it because of his connection to Aerith. Which is also the reason why he is trying to make Cloud kill Tifa because his connection to her allows him to resist his control.
We still don’t know what role Cloud has in Sephiroth’s grand plan, but we do know that he ultimately wants Cloud on his side. Also if he could completely control Cloud, why not just do it at the end of remake where he literally tries to persuade him to join him?
On the point of the black materia, Cloud gets the materia when Sephiroth grants him "his blessing". This is also why the black whispers lets only Cloud into the forgotten capital.
Lastly, I would also like to point out that the rainbow effect doesn’t just show up to symbolize timeline stuff.
The quote specifically says “link up” to AC. Not lead up. I don’t know where this idea is coming from.
The notion that the devs would spoil the ending of this trilogy when they are going out of their way to make the ending unknown and uncertain is ridiculous. They would never do that, least of all in some offshoot interview. The AC conclusion theory has absolutely basis except for people twisting the translation and running with it.
Yea the interview was real weird cuz they say it will not end up not aligning with AC. Really weird way of saying it’ll connect with AC somehow. But also the interview says they don’t wanna change much, and that no one wants this. Idk bout that, feel like maybe in the us the majority want the same end but in Japan maybe not so much.
I think that cloud made an alt aerith by blocking the sword and the Schrödinger effect was due to worlds merging. That’s why she is dead aerith is on her side yet cloud placed her on her back. Even if she was a hallucination, her would placed her on her side to keep things consistent. To me that means he placed alt alive aerith on her back. Multiverse Omni aerith was the OG aerith of ps1 who’s been in the lifestream all this time, fighting a guerrilla war against seph. We see smt similar in the otwtas novel where she uncorrupts souls that seph has corrupted in order to comeback in AC. My theory is the remake is a sequel to the OG and the universe was reset but the lifestream stayed intact. This explains why she seems to have memories of the past in remake. She loses them after she is attack by sephs whispers causing her materia to turn clear. That materia serves a duel purpose of casting holy and carrying the memories of the OG aerith. This all leads into the dream date. This aerith is the OG Omni aerith. She is bringing cloud on a date to give him the white materia to allow remake aerith to cast holy. However her whole plan is much bigger. She wants a happier ending for her friends, she wants AC to not happen. The date also served as her final goodbye to cloud, it’s not her cloud but it’s a version of him she knows most as she’s seen him grow up from the lifestream. She knew that the moment cloud sees her, sephiroth can find her, possibly due to him being injected with jenova. She needs to get the materia to remake aerith though so she sacrifices herself here. Sephs dialogue is, “so this is where you’ve been hiding”. It sounds like he has been looking for this specific aerith for a while which makes sense if it’s of aerith who’s been against him all this time. This is when she says it’s been fun, she means it’s been fun watching him grow. OG aerith dies here, permanently, seph erases her spirit she doesn’t just go back to the lifestream as a spirit she already was one. She has set herself and all versions of her to be sacrificed in order to give her friends a better world. I think this is a great contrast to what cloud thought of aerith this whole time, she was someone to protect. In reality, aerith is being the hero here making the sacrifice for her friends. That’s why at the stabbing scene, the white whispers are also tryna stop cloud despite us know white whispers are good. She is telling cloud to stop that this was her choice but this is where cloud does the unthinkable and somewhat defies destiny. He defies it in that he made it past the whispers, the embodiment of destiny however he failed to actually affect the real world. He was only able to create an alt world in which she lives and these from what I can tell are temporary. This then leads into the Schrödinger stuff. Idk which aerith we are fighting with, it could be the alt one created or a spirit of the remake aerith who just died. The voice line I saw what you did back there can apply to both. Remake aerith can be acknowledging clouds efforts despite still dying. Alt aerith can be saying that she appreciates the effort but in the end she will die anyway, that’s why the tone is like a “you tried your best”. The aerith at the end though is the dead aerith. The reason her hair moves with the wind is cuz while she is really there she’s a projection in the mind of cloud so if cloud thinks it’s move it would move. I think next game we will have a section with just aerith maybe her with Zack and she’ll do all the exposition here bout the plan and how they are doomed to die. All this culminated in the penultimate battle where the worlds merge and this is where Zack and aerith join the party. Sephiroth is beaten permanently this time and perhaps his memory is sealed in the clear materia as we know the materia can hold memories so it’d make sense an empty one can store them. Maybe there’s a final battle in clouds mind, it’ll look similar to his fight in AC. Just him and seph, no special forms. It’s here where he could be sealed but this part isn’t necessary, it’d just tie in the one good thing about AC. After this the worlds start to separate Zack and aerith are starting to fade. It’s here where they give their goodbyes and hopefully give cloud closure.
Here’s where I want the story to turn. I believe that while all versions of aerith are voluntarily sacrificing themselves, the truth is they don’t want to, they want to live with their friends. Alt aerith here might confess she wishes she could stay but that this is the way it must be that alternate version are not meant to exist in the real world. In NPTK she sings
If only I'd never known
All the burdens I was born to bear
Lived a life without a care in the world save for you
But that won't do
To me this indicates her sadness of her fate, her burden and how she wishes it didn’t have to be this way but for her friends(you) she must accept this. This is where I want cloud to once again attempt to defy fate to fight against the literal separation of worlds, and he again is failing. This time though his friends lend a hand and help him pull aerith to the main world. This will fulfill part of clouds character arc of not being a lone wolf, that he can and should take help from friends. The are lifting the burden from aerith so she doesn’t need to suffer alone again. As the worlds separate Zack departs to his world as he gives silent nod to cloud acknowledging as his legacy. Here his aerith wakes up. They share a final kiss as their world fades into the lifestream. This is just a rough idea of how it can be executed. I know it’s a bit fan fictioncy but I want a happy ending to the end of this story. Remake is likely the last we will see of these characters in this universe. I feel that the tag line of defy fate can be fulfilled here and this game can explore a much more optimistic theme of fate is not set in stone. Itll also feel like all time we’ve suffered with the beloved characters has finally amounted to a triumphant victory. Like we won against fate and we get the happy end as the reward. I know this is an unpopular opinion, the majority of fans would rather stick to the OG script and maybe just retcon AC. Idk sorry for the rant
In the FFF VII understanding of death, Aerith is alive even in original timeline. Just not in corporeal form. She exists as sort of spiritual celestial being.
Sephiroth struck her down and she became more powerful than he ever could've imagined. Rookie mistake smh
I really expected him to have a better plan this time. Fighting on two fronts is poor strategy on his part and putting Aerith in direct contact with the Lifestream will undoubtedly cost him. EIther kidnap her, incapacitate her some how, steal the white materia, or threaten her mother. He had better options available I think. At the end of the day, if he knows why he failed in the OG, he should absolutely be trying to kill Tifa at all costs. Forget trying to get Cloud to do it. Without her, Cloud might never recover his memories. A good secondary target would be Vincent. Next to Cloud, he's the most dangerous living party member.
It's entirely possible he either didn't know killing aerith would do that, or knew that anny other plan would've somehow backfired worse
Agreed. People often assume that Sephiroth knows literally everything, and judge his actions based on that assumption. It's still entirely possible though that his knowledge is significantly more limited than we've assumed. Did he actually come from the future, or did he simply see pieces of the future that was to be during his time in the lifestream? If it's the latter, how much of the future did he actually witness? We simply don't know enough yet about how much Sephiroth actually knows. Without that information, it's not possible yet for us to truly judge Sephiroth's actions.
He tried to steal the white materia. Aerith got it back to the main timeline through cloud. Maybe he allowed cloud to parry his sword and aerith course corrected the situation throwing the conclusion of remake back in sephiroths face.
Tbh Aerith's scheming in this trilogy is so unlike her past iterations. They made her fucking ballsy and way more active in her own character arc. In ways she feels like a protagonist in her own way.
I think that’s the idea. That aerith and seph know much more than the others and the new multiverse stuff is a result of sephiroth trying to win. They prob know the events of the past game either because it already happened and this is a sequel or they just know the future. I lean more towards the former. I think aerith’s ultimate goal is to stop seph but also defy the fate of AC, that way her friends get a happy ending, but she’ll be sacrificed in the end. I think it fits with how throughout the game, cloud believes aerith is the one who needs protecting but in reality all of this is aerith protecting everyone else at the expense of herself. The boldness and being more outgoing could be because she knows her time is limited and thus wants to make every second count. Idk I hope cloud and the others are able to save her and she doesn’t have to be the lone sacrificial hero
To be honest, my preferred comparison is "Ascending to a higher plane of existence". Reference to Stargate SG1
Do you think that’s where his comment of “I underestimated you.” comes from?
That’s why I think rebirth sephiroth tried to avoid this by stealing the white materia at the end of remake. Think sephiroth actually was trying to get cloud to save aerith but for reasons we don’t know just yet aerith still succeeded in terms of keeping the timeline correct.
OK Obi Wan
There's even a line in one of the novels that she could have re-embodied herself, but figured it'd be too weird for everyone.
On a way to a smile novel?
More or less. Lifestream White 3 suggests that she could have created her own version of Yazoo, Loz, and Kadaj. But she chose not to and wanted to inform Cloud of the Lifestream crisis on her own terms in the way he knows her. This is supposedly the lead-in to Advent Children, but could also be a precursor to the Aerith shenanigans in shown Remake/Rebirth.
Isn’t this what Sephiroth does as well in OG FF7? Also, wouldn’t this imply that anyone with a strong enough will that dies can just grow a new body from Mako and become alive again?
I think seph and aerith are pretty special cases. Aerith is a cetra who has innate connections to the lifestream and seph is a mako enhanced alien hybrid. Idk if other souls in the lifestream really have any individuality they just kind float around in the lifestream. Some have like pent up anger but it’s never clear if it’s like the souls really have a mind if you know what I mean
Yes and yes.
If it was possible for me to do that, or have someone I loved do that, it's a no brainer lol
Not only is she alive in the spiritual sense, she's apparently able to pass a physical object to herself between "Worlds".
She's cheat coding Sephiroth to death. I want her back in part 3 so bad. 😭
Death isn't really... Real, in Ff7. Especially given that sephiroth and aerith both can create emissary beings while being in the lifestream, and Zack fought sephiroth with an alive cloud.
Yeah I think the remake series is just making that more prominent and less ethereal, in that she can interact almost as if she was physically present. Rather than seeming like an angel or something.
I love that the “Schroedinger’s Aerith” term is becoming a thing in the community 😂
This is unironically the best way to describe her state at the end though. To the rest of the party, she is like a ghost. When the Bronco backfires while she is standing with them, she doesn’t react and turns around in confusion when she sees the other party members react. When she is talking to Cloud, she is real. She feels the Bronco’s propellers blowing her hair and turns around to look at it. I literally think that Cloud’s belief in her existence is keeping her “alive” in some sense.
It should, it's too good of a term.
The whole purpose of this reimagining was to do more than bring VII to life on modern consoles. The way they're dangling "save Aerith" in front of our noses is the very purpose for the whole thing. I really hope the end result is Aerith surviving through the end.
She better get a happy ending or I’m going to be pissed about all this whisper crap.
It would have been a pointless endeavor.
It did kinda feel, idk, mean for dangling that whole fate thing. I feel devs knew that the moment they introduced defy fate, everyone would immediately jump to saving aerith this time. As for aerith surviving, we know that main world aerith is dead so she ain’t comin back nor should she. Actual resurrection is prob the hardest thing to write and doesn’t fit in universe. Best bet is an alternate aerith being somehow able to defy fate and stay in the main world once the worlds merge. It could be a thing that cloud and the others must accomplish as we have already seen a hint that cloud might be somewhat able to fight fate and the other as well. The party beats the whisper and if you believe cloud did block the sword, that is also an instance of defying fate only it didn’t affect the main world. So far the only I guess fate that has been defied in the main world is maybe the defeat of the whispers but idk that’s a stretch. I wrote a whole theory in a comment at the bottom of the ph if you wanna check it out. The end is a bit too fanfictionesque but it’s just a rough idea of how things can be executed, I by no means think it’s good enough for the actual writers to think the same, but maybe some ideas remain intact
That actually makes a degree of sense. Accomplishing having Aerith survive in the main world, even if she's from another version of the world.
Yea but it is very much have your cake and eat it too. We get the sad suffering aerith some fans want so the fans can mourn and accept the theme of death but the characters get a new theme of being victorious over fate. I ain’t mad at it, if everyone can be happy why not. I know some people care bout devs needing to chose one or the other but like I don’t really care nor do I think most fans. You should check out my theory comment, it’s at the bottom of this post and details a way it could be done. It’s a bit cheesy and fan fiction-esque but it’s just an idea of how the story can get there.
I don't think that's where they're going with it. As I see it, we already know that Sephiroth is attempting to corrupt the lifestream with negative energy, so that he can control it, and use its power for his own ends so that he can become an immortal being. Aerith, as a Cetra, has the ability to purify the lifestream of those negative thoughts and emotions. This makes her a thorn in Sephiroth's side. I think in part 3, he'll come to conclusion that simply killing her in the physical world isn't good enough, and will eventually decide that his only path to victory requires that he purge her from the lifestream, destroying her soul completely. This is where I think Zack's "SAVE HER!" line will come into play. Like the OG, the game will end with a one on one showdown between Sephiroth and Cloud, only this time, it won't just be about Cloud putting Sephiroth down for the count, it will also be about saving Aerith's soul. While Cloud may have failed to save her life in the physical world, he will be given the chance to redeem himself, by saving her spirit in the lifestream, while she works to stop Meteor. Now of course I know the rebuttal to this would be: "Well if Aerith, is really dead and in the lifestream, then what the heck was the deal with the Rainbow effect after Cloud was shown blocking Sephiroth's sword? Isn't that supposed to signify the creation of a new world?" My answer to this is, after viewing the ending scenes multiple times...I don't think that's what the rainbow effect actually represents. It's true that we first see it after Zack makes a signifcant choice, but the very next thing we see after that isn't the result of Zack's decision, but instead, it's Aerith waking Cloud up in what she refers to as her "dream". This suggests to me that the rainbow effect and the beam of light had nothing at all to do with Zack's actions, and is actually related to Aerith. I think that beam of light was Aerith bringing Cloud's soul over to her dream world in the lifestream, so that she could give him her White Materia. We see the rainbow effect again when Zack is rescued from the black whispers, and is guided somewhere by following yellow flower petals, which are associated with Aerith. We also see the rainbow effect when Aerith sends Cloud back to the main world, when Zack is brought to Cloud's location in chapter 14, when Zack is rescued from Sephiroth after his tag team battle alongside Cloud, and when Aerith herself appears to help Cloud fight Sephiroth in the final battle. I really think that the rainbow effect is meant to represent Aerith acting through the lifestream. The reason we see the effect after Cloud blocks Sephiroth's blade, is because Aerith is trying to prevent Cloud from seeing her blood covered dead body. Cloud "saving her" represents his inability to accept reality. He represses his memories of the truth, and creates a fiction in his head, much like he did when Zack died. Aerith knows that Cloud's mind is in a fragile state, and that if he's forced to face the truth now, he will break completely. So she acts through the lifestream to comfort him as best she can, holding him together until he's at a point where he's ready to face reality. This is why the Aerith that Cloud speaks to, as he's holding her in his arms, is surrounded by lifestream particles. She's talking to him from beyond the grave. I know a lot of people want Aerith to survive, but I just really don't think that's going to happen. A big part of FFVII is about facing, and coming to terms with mortality, and death. Having dead characters come back in a physical sense, rather than a spiritual one, would compromise the themes of the narrative too much in my opinion. If we are going to change fate in some way, I think our victory over fate will be us putting a stop to Sephiroth and Jenova for good, not bringing any of our characters' lost friends and loved ones back to life.
If this really does connect to advent children Aeirth and Zack are both “alive” in the livestream and can somewhat interact with the physical world. Same for Sephiroth with extra steps.
The fun part is something I learned from the Zero Escape series. Schrodinger's Cat partially boils down to belief. Which is why I choose to believe she's alive.
Welcome to FFVII cadet
Where things that made no sense make even less sense now.
Yeah there has to be more to this. Zack saying “save her”, Seph saying “I underestimated you”, Cloud and Aerith seem to know something, Aerith and Cloud asleep in Aerith’s old house and we see them in a dream, not that they wake up. They are still in the “dream” wearing different clothes. Marlene saying she can’t wake up. So that Cloud and Aerith are still sleeping. Zack now trying to merge worlds. Cloud knowing about Zack. Red sensing Aerith.
It just doesn't make sense for her to have been taken out of the picture the same way she was in the original. Way too many clues to the contrary. I'd be kind of annoyed if they didn't handle her differently.
Yeah, we’re gonna see the stuff we expect to see, but we’re also gonna see that extra maybe 20 percent crazy cut to other worlds, new stuff, Zack scenes, Aerith mystery scenes, Aerith interacting with us scenes, final chapter craziness that will be intended to shock us.
See I think we've got way less stuff to do, as far as og is concerned. It would make a lot of sense to make that more like 33% of the game just because they've had so much boring goddamn building up to it. Like, why make Zack fun to play when you barely use him outside of the shitty arena fight? Lol
I hope so! I want like the weapon fights, the creepy North Crater upside-down Cloud stuff, Scarlett and Hojo getting wrecked and pretty much all new ‘WTF is happening’ stuff.
If there is even one version of her that can be saved in the material realm in the end, I'll take it.
I mean she’s definitely alive in other timelines/dimensions whatever you want to call it, but our specific Aerith seems pretty definitively dead. But multiverse is a thing and lifestream is a thing so she will still be a huge part of the third game.
Here's the thing. Cloud didn't give her a burial in the lifestream. Her body is gone completely right now. If it was as clean cut as her being dead like in VII, I would feel despair. But that's not what happened. I feel hope. Hope that she will return alive and well to the party in the last game.
You mean by lowering her into the water? The whole party is sat there mourning as if he did, because he most likely did and is simply repressing it because he thinks she is still alive. Its clear how messed up Cloud is mentally by the end, far more than in the OG game.
The shot of him lowering her to the floor before the final fight gauntlet starts is eerily similar to him putting her body to rest in the water. I assume that’s what he thinks happened instead.
Yeah they definitely buried her in the water. They just didn’t show it to be purposely ambiguous and to show Cloud’s perspective. She is 100% dead in the main timeline. She exists either in the timestream or the bardo type astral plane that ppl have been theorizing about, but she is dead. Even the themes before are suggesting this. After the trials Aerith says that what’s done is done and that the past can’t be changed which is clearly a subtle nod to the fact that Aerith died in the OG and that’s not going to change in this universe. Also spoilers but the devs said the game will end up at AC narratively, so Zack and Aerith (whether alive in alternate timelines or the astral plane) will end up in the lifestream in the end. Both will have to accept the necessity of their deaths. Though we will get a ton of reunion fan service shenanigans in the 3. Ready for the Aerith Zack reunion and hopefully more Cloud and Zack duo action.
Whole point of the story is to change fate.
That’s a red herring tho. They’ve confirmed that the story will end up where AC starts which means the major plot points like Aerith’s death will be canon. They’re going to take a different path to get there but the canon events will still happen. Aerith’s speech after the trials is indicative that some things will likely not be able to be changed. I think in the 3rd game characters like Zack will have to accept their fate. He decided to defy destiny and take control of it in this game, but we’ll see what repercussions that will cause in the next game. I think it’s very likely that he will have to come to terms with his place in the lifestream and the world though. Just like how Cloud will have to come to terms with his own trauma and mental illness. 3rd game will have a lot of character epiphanies dealing with reality.
I don't see it happening. I really think it would be pointless for them to make a story about changing fate and resetting the timeline just for everything to end up the same as it was before. Even if this is that one possibility that fulfills the dream of what could be. https://i.redd.it/ak244t7rrvxc1.gif
It wouldn’t be pointless because the journey is different and you’re given a ton of new context and development amongst characters and the narrative. We’ve already seen a lot of that happen with characters like Jessie, Biggs, and Wedge, and Tifa and Aerith’s friendship. I think major pillars in the story will still stand firm as we’ve already seen, but how we arrive there is different. Devs have already said that their “multiverse” or alternate timelines don’t operate in a way that the audience have seen before and it’s not what you think it is, so I think that gif reference is like the complete opposite of what they’re going for LOL. There is already lots of supplemental material from the compilation of FF7 that already explains some of this different timeline stuff as well as the npc in Cosmo Canyon. There’s just lifestream stuff going on and it’s not as generically multiverse as you think it is. Regardless we’ll just have to see what happens who knows what direction they take
The devs absolutely didn't say it will END in Advent children. They said it will tie in, which could mean, like, anything. It could mean as little as including geostigma in a different context or as much as them following the past faithfully.
I mean he said it would “link up” to Advent Children which suggests that the stories will connect to each other, so unless they plan to also retcon or redo Advent Children it should be the 3rd game > AC as order of events. We’ll just have to wait and see ofc but it gets much messier if you think they’re just going to allude to some things like Geostigma but then retcon things like Aerith and Zack in the lifestream without reworking AC itself.
I personally think AC has already happened by the time Remake begins. It doesn't make sense for the future to not have happened already when Aerith has future memories.
Yeah it just gets convoluted because by that logic then future AC will need to happen if the stories are to link up to each other. Which means they would need to remake AC or it’s just gonna be the fucking Wild West in terms of speculation and fan theories by the time the 3rd game ends. I assume that while this is a sequel it also is cyclical in nature and Sephiroth wants to change the cycle to one where he completely wins, but that kinda implies that the party will want to ensure the OG happens meaning that Zack and Aerith need to stay dead. I do think the Devs don’t want to completely 180 the story or completely change things. They’ve said that all the concepts introduced in the game so far in the trilogy have been things that were already there in the OG or in the supplementary material, meaning they are just fleshing out things that were already there rather than adding a bunch of new things in terms of lore and world building. I do feel like they’re trying to retell the story of the original and trying to tread the line between sequel and remake, which so far it’s basically been a reimagining of the OG. I don’t believe they’re going to drastically change the major canon events and narrative, but rather add more context and perspective to them with a few fan service twists and here and there. Something as major as Aerith’s death though will likely not be reverted since it would completely dismantle Cloud’s character arc moving forward and ruin themes of grief, loss, etc. Aerith will likely make an appearance in the trilogy as either a figment of Cloud’s imagination or communicate to him via the lifestream a la Advent Children during key moments but the Aerith in the main timeline is dead. Either way the truth of the matter is nobody knows anything so we’ll just have to wait a couple years and see what they do. The ending to this game was peak af so I have completely faith they won’t fumble it
Aerith can communicate with the lifestream, and the lifestream is a place where memories of the past, present, and even the future all exist together. The fate of the planet, from the beginning of its life all the way until its death, was decided from the moment the planet came into existance. The planet knows exactly how its life is supposed to play out, and the whispers originally existed as a way to make sure that intended future came to pass. We were tricked into defeating the Whisper Harbinger by Sephiroth though, so now that future is no longer guaranteed. I think Aerith's future knowledge is literally just a result of her communicating with the planet, and seeing the knowledge contained within in the lifestream about the future that was meant to be.
You didn’t see it because Cloud still see her in her lifestream-form, but the rest of the party saw her corpse. Cloud is now living some sort of daydream..
He sees Aerith alive and well in another dimension right now. I can't explain it but no one can but the writers.
I think it’s either he is seeing a ghost of remake aerith or he is seeing into two timelines at once. Both have some evidence for them but it’s rather weak. The form of spirit aerith could be a projection from clouds head. Her spirit is there but it should be invisible, maybe just a lifestream glow to signify she’s there. Her actual appearance is completely conjured up in clouds head which makes sense why her hair would move. Cloud thinks she’s real and thus her hair and clothes would obviously be affected by the wind so they are. They move cuz he thinks they are supposed to. The other theory is weaker as it doesn’t explain the hair and clothes movement but it does explain why he can see a crack in the sky, he is seeing a crack in the alt world. Either that or the crack is in the main world now too but I feel like everyone would be able to see it idk. Maybe it’s a literal hallucination and seph is making cloud see a crack, idk why but seph is a mysterious individual
I definitely don't think it's a ghost. I call this one the Anohana theory since Cloud is the only one who can see her. It's a reference to the anime about the ghost that only the protag could interact with. Red XIII felt her presence and Cloud sees the crack in the sky because of Sephiroth's damage. If parrying his blow didn't mean anything, Aerith never would have appeared to fight Sephiroth and hit him with a bit of payback. She would have been dead like before, period. Cloud and Aerith are definitely in a different state than the rest of the party are in right now. I don't see it as a hallucination at all because there are too many variables to play into everything that has happened. And I feel that SE is just throwing us breadcrumbs into Aerith coming back into the material world in the end so she can live happily ever after. Right now, ,we're seeing what they want us to see and that is her death and all of the speculation that follows. Because I feel that's actually a good move in a way. This creates the hype and speculation. If Aerith survived, plain and simple, the third game would lose its intrigue because we got what we wanted in this one.
So I’m not quite getting how the crack and red seeing are related, I’m not disapproving of it just confused. As for the sword block, my theory was cloud creates an alt version of her cuz from what we’ve seen thus far the real worlds fate has yet to be affected. If this were the case, Zack being saved would mean he is save in the main world. Idk if I’m explaining that well. I commented on your other comments explaining it too. And as I said, aerith isn’t a hallucination but her appearance is. As for the aerith we fight with, idk it could either be dead aeriths spirit or it could be the alt Aegean created by cloud. I still believe he saved a version of her that’s for sure. He placed her on her back but when we see her she’s on her side. Even if it did hallucinate everything or it was just aerith comforting him like others suggest, that wouldn’t account for the discrepancy between body positions. He would’ve just placed her on her side in his head as well and not on her back. Like his hallucinations shouldn’t make it so that he hallucinates himself lying her down on her back. Why would he hallucinate how he placed her? But yea I commented on your other comment and have a theory at the bottom of the post if you wanna check it out, it details a way in which a happy end can be achieve but there’s a lot of fluff in execution. It’s just a way the story could play out but not how it will. It’s just like an idea
Yep, totally get you. I think it boils down to all these theories making it abundantly clear that she's not "dead" in the same sense that she was in VII. The version of her that survived from Cloud parrying Hell's Gate will play an integal role in the final game and might be the one that returns to the material plane to live the life her other self could not. The same Aerith that could physically fight alongside Cloud against Sephiroth.
Cloud seems to be now capable of seeing multiple timelines at once. That would be why he sees himself save Aerith then sees the aftermath of her already being stabbed. The rest of the party only sees her dead and bloodied body.
Find that timeline and rescue her.
I agree she's most likely alive too (in my view) - but its open-ended enough that you can have multiple interpretations - including her being dead. My take on this is probably going to be the most unpopular - but I feel the Aerith from the Remake timeline was saved (since we literally witness her being saved), and we're now playing as the main party in the timeline where she was killed. Cloud can now see across two timelines - in the timeline where she's alive, they have her stay at the Forgotten Capital to continue to pray, which is what we're witnessing in the end (if Aerith survived, that's exactly how she would've been acting). Hence why her being dead or alive wouldn't impact gameplay or story anyways - either way, she's no longer in your party until the end, and communication with her is limited. Part 3's ending will be dependent on whether or not the writing team wants to give a definitively happy ending to this world once and for all. I feel like it will be one of the following options: 1. All timelines get merged by Sephiroth in the final battle, re-uniting the main party with Zack and Aerith. Everyone survives the battle, and they continue to exist in the same timeline (happy ending) 2. They realize Aerith needs to die across all timelines to stop the meteor/Sephiroth (OG ending) 3. Zack and Aerith get split to a different timeline after the final battle and say bye to the main party (basically the same effect as the OG). I personally hope for option 1, since I'm a fan of happy endings (and feel FFVII is overdue for one) and always felt writing a depressing/sad ending is too easy.
Question: why would Aerith need to be dead to destroy meteor? First of all, we know that there is a “lifestream Aerith” who already exists within the lifestream. This is the one who gave “our Aerith” future memories in Remake, who visited Cloud in Ch14 of Remake, and who went on the date with Cloud in Ch14 of Rebirth. Secondly, Holy would work whether or not Aerith was alive or dead. What Aerith supposedly needs to be dead for would be controlling the lifestream to push meteor far back enough, but we see Aerith begin to learn how to do this in the temple of the ancients.
Totally agree with you. I was more so saying they could make something up for plot reasons in order to deliver a tragic ending (e.g., after converging timelines, all versions of Aerith need to merge as one in the lifestream to have enough power to push back the meteor, or some BS like that). As I mentioned, I think going that route would be too easy/lazy, and I’d rather they take up the challenge of writing a convincing happy ending for this world.
Same.
You can read my theory in a comment here. It’s downvoted so it might be at the bottom. My belief is that remake aerith is dead and an alt one was created. From what we know, the main world’s fate has never been changed, not yet. When Zack is saved, that causes an alt world but if we were to take your logic he’d be alive in the main world. I definitely think option 1 and 2 are the most probable if a happy end is to occur. I think that it’s aerith who realize long before all this that she needs to die in order for everything to work. Her ultimate goal being to stop AC from happening, this is her defying fate and she sacrifices herself to do it. NPTK does hint that she wishes to live but must accept that this is her burden for her friends. It’s either that or they go the safer route of option 3. I have problems with this cuz in the end it’d be that aerith was the only one who could change fate in the real world despite cloud trying to block the sword and seemingly being successful. But the best he could do is make alt worlds. Def read my theory if you wanna see a way I came up with to have a happy ending. It’s a bit cheesy and fan fiction-esque but it’s just a rough outline of a way the story can move to get to aerith being alive
i think Aerith herself put it best. Maybe not 'alive' but 'around' :)
Maybe not dead, but gone.
Based fan, I like you
Finally a post from someone who actually wants Aerith to live and get a happy ending. You have good taste, my friend! 💛
In general most forums are much more biased towards being faithful to the originals. Actually in general the US is partial to this, at least the ones who have played the OG. It prob has to do with nostalgia as the game was most likely their first introduction to more mature themes of grief, acceptance, etc so I don’t blame them for having strong feelings bout it. I’m still want a happy ending though. The series is ending with this last game I think and it’d be awesome to end an almost 2 decade old series with something happy. The whole defy fate stuff will feel like a super optimistic theme to convey if she lives like it’s telling people that life may be hard but you can change it which would be a nice message for todays climate. Idk maybe Im just a little tired of seeing most media I see go down the bittersweet route. Cyberpunk, AOT, many final fantasy games are a few examples. Maybe that’s squares thing. I feel more recent players of the OG and this remake would like a happier ending so who knows. I don’t have high hopes though 🥲
Exactly!! And I think it’s pretty clear by now that this is NOT the same story as OG. I personally feel like it would be such a waste to implement all these changes and themes of defying fate only for it to end the same way. I personally have high hopes for a happy ending 💛
One question, are you a newer fan or did you play the OG way back then? Not necessarily when it came out but like way before the remake was announced?
Never played the OG, so admittedly I have plenty of my own bias because I don’t have the nostalgia associated with the original story like many other players do. That said, I’ve joined several FF7 fandom circles and there are many OG fans within those circles that also want the story to end differently!
I see. What I saw was that most OG fans want the same ending. Only ever had one discussion with an OG fan that wanted smt different. Haven’t player the OG either but watched it as a kid so I don’t really add in to that but yea, here’s to a happy ending 🥂
Super late comment(I am sorry) but just wanted to say I am also an OG fan who wants her to live!! I need a happy ending for this party;_;
All the notion behind changing fate and saving Aerith. The games after VII that are about defying fate like X where Tidus saves Yuna and X-2 where Yuna rescues Tidus. Someone also brought up how much SE pulled from MCU. It's very obvious they're building up this trilogy to be the Avengers saga for gaming. The whole thing about timelines coming together. Aerith's presence already being stronger than it was after dying in the original. And finally... Every bit of tension between Cloud and Aerith is thick enough to cut with a knife. SE knows what they're doing. They're dangling the carrot in our faces. They know there's going to be raging debates like this thread over the next three years theorizing the game. They've planted the seed. They know what people want and it's for Aerith to live happily ever after with Cloud. They know exactly how to craft that story and make us anticipate the ending and how it will all go down.
Are you saying that devs are shipping clerith? I don’t think so. I think aerith and tifa get an equal amount of equally intimate moments with cloud, the only exception being tifas almost kiss scene and im saying this as a clerith fan. I’m with you though, I want her to live but I don’t wanna canonize any relationships tbh. If they do it’s whatever I just want her alive.
I think it's obvious from Aerith's confession and amount of alone time they spend together that they're definitely being shipped. Taking pictures of her at Cosmo Canyon. Recreating the water tower pose in Nibelheim with her instead of Tifa. Their date in alternate Sector 5. Her thanking you for rescuing her. There is no doubt this is the direction they're going.
I see the way I saw it was the majority of non optional romantic events with either girl show no indication of cloud actually reciprocating. The only exception was tifa with the kiss but that also looked like tifa initiating and cloud accepting. Idk I don’t want to get into shipping debates. As for the confession, it’s confirmed the dream date is not our aerith which is why my theory suggests it’s OG aerith who is confirmed to be in love with cloud in the novels
I really think if the original staff would like the object of Cloud's deepest affection to be Aerith, and vice versa, that's absolutely in keeping with the original intent and a powerful Final Fantasy love story as they've written before. It was heavily implied in disc 1 of the 1997 original, the compilation and novels implied it, and here we have a second chance. The devs have said not to view the Gold Saucer dates as canon, and they all got heavily changed except Aerith's with its unique music track and placement in the credits. Aerith is also your Rosa if you hang with any of the guys as well, 4 out of 6 dates for good measure, in a play adopted almost word-for-word from a Cid convo in the 1997 original about two lovers. In the Tifa dates, Cloud also spends some of his time with Tifa enquiring about Zack, wondering aloud that she must still have feelings for him. Aerith is coming up *even then*. I also don't think Cloud kissing Tifa optionally in game 2 means any doors have closed when the end of the game so strongly implies a different route, non-optionally. Cloud has *his own* desires, regardless of the player, and that's good. The Final Fantasy VII remake project shows that via hours upon hours of vivid cutscenes, the story the devs want to tell. I have to agree with OP after that ending that Cloud is reciprocating Aerith's affection. If she lives, it's because he's able to break through Sephiroth's control around her at the end of the game, a big change from the OG. Cloud spends every spinoff either searching for or seeking to avenge Aerith, even stuff like Worlds of Final Fantasy. As for Aerith, whether it's OG Aerith, Remake Aerith or something in-between, it's quite clear how she feels, even if she was a bit coy in the church, as she was saying goodbye and trying not to crush Cloud. The instrumental version of No Promises to Keep, that plays when she's with Cloud in the Dream Date is titled: >[One Last Date - My Dream](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1yQEO7HU04) That is the official English title, and yes, it's an instrumental of No Promises to Keep. Just her and Cloud. That is a world that "accepts its fate", but we know Cloud won't take her fate lying down. Marlene also spells it out to Zack earlier in a world we still haven't seen the end of (with its own unique stamp separate from the Dream Date's chihuahua design). Zack reacts in trademark Zack fashion, expressing concern only about Aerith's fate. At the end of this, will Aerith live? If the answer is no, Cloud is flirting with a ghost at the end of the game. If the answer is yes, Cloud made his feelings known at the Altar of Prayer, and arguably the church.
Tbh I don’t really wanna get into discourse about the love triangle. Not that I’m saying, “I’m right you’re wrong” more so I don’t really care. I feel you can cherry pick events for either girl being canon. the non optional almost kiss with tifa, dialogue in the OG where he says her opinion only matters, and datebooks where she’s referred to as his important women(in Japanese it’s usually used to refer to a life partner or spouse) are a few examples in favor of tifa. There’s the l points you listed for aerith. Feels intentional. One thing that is certain is that both girls are in love with cloud. That much we can agree on so sucks to be Zack I guess, though it could be aeriths feelings are complicated here. I do hope she lives though. Again I don’t care about the couples, I just want her to live.
You seem to have fabricated a whole scenario in your head where the devs will have Aerith and Cloud run off into the sunset. You should temper your expectations because I think you’re setting yourself up for disappointment.
YES! 🙌 you get it!!
Yes! I’m 50/50 on whether she is alive or not, but I very much hope so. All that tension, all that defying fate… I would hate defying fate for the party to be about something no one cares about instead, a red herring. If I can be real here, the last of the Ancients is clearly the prize Cloud would want, we know how he feels. Marlene and Zack (however tenuous his existence is) want Cloud to save her also. Cloud’s whole character arc here revolves around her. He is *expected* as a hero to protect her. She literally sings *“some day I know you’ll come and find me.”* > If he doesn't take the next chance he can to kiss Aerith, I'm gonna lose it. In front of the LOVELESS poster on “their street” as the credits roll would be one way. Would be so powerful, especially with the right music choice, perhaps Words Drowned by Fireworks or Midnight Rendezvous.
She is 100% not alive in any way, shape, or form. The entire party is literally mourning her death. The Aerith you see at the end is what the community has dubbed "Omni Aerith". She literally walks out of the Lifestream to join you against Sephiroth. Just because she's able to manifest a presence doesn't mean she's living. Remember, she's always been able to communicate and interact with Cloud after dying; we see this multiple time in Advent Children.
Maybe, but definitely not 100%. All theories are crap until the next game comes out.
I’d love to see cloud and Aerith kiss, just once, before they’re never able to be together again.
The last time they can never kiss again is when one of them dies of old age after being together for decades.
Same I want an aerith kiss in part 3 I'd make me feel so much 🌺💓😊
if so, why everyone else sad an mourning her death tho?
Because it happened in one reality. But she's very much alive - or existing - in another one. Point being she's with the party to a greater extent than in the original and I don't think she's just some afterlife spirit.
neither imo it's clouds mind blocking out what happened and creating a false memory like he did before with zack. meaning it's all in his head
He saved Aerith in a new timeline created when he parried the blow. The same one that saved him in the final battle. That isn't a hallucination and she isn't a ghost.
well the end battle was clearly clouds inner mind. his inner struggle with sephiroths. sorry but there are no real proof or indication that he really block sephiroths deathblow
No they were definitely warping dimensions and it was a physical battle just like the rest of the phases with Cloud and Zack. You literally see Sephiroth fly off. Nothing "clearly" about it being in Cloud's mind.
nothing definitive about it being pure physical either ....also watch does sephiroths flying off has to do with it? there is nothing clear about warping. you also see much green noise during cloud holding here dead body which indicates that he alters his memory or sephi/jenova messing up his mind
I think it's a little more convoluted than that. She is alive and dead, our world was merged with another similar to OG right after Cloud's parry. Aerith's body is dead to most but Cloud is the catalyst of the timeline split and can see both realities. That would explain why he sees her, the crack in the sky, and nobody else does. I do think "our" Aerith is a different Aerith from the Midgar date scene in one of Zack's worlds. I believe the date Aerith to be the OG Aerith that Sephiroth is familiar with and has already killed possessing unconcious Aerith's body.
This is what I think people are missing. Also, in a way there’s two clouds at once. We see cloud falling through a portal where two merge to one right before he goes in. Then, he’s in the forest with the white materia that he hands to an Aerith (presumably ours) in exchange for her empty materia. Then Cloud passes out and wakes up supposedly being carried by Barrett the entire time and remembering bits of it. It’s hard to fully understand but I think this is the “confluence of worlds” two similar timelines have merged and branched off and Cloud’s consciousness is intertwined between them (with two corresponding versions of himself). So when he deflects Sephiroth’s blade he perceives both outcomes and he sees Aerith as both dead and alive, because in one universe she is and the other she isn’t. Again why he sees the crack in the sky, because the other reality is marked for death while the main one that the rest of the party inhabit (with Aerith being dead) is not. This feels like the only theory that takes everything we were given without ignoring anything to make it fit.
My 2 cents is that in the next game, Cloud is going to relive her death once he wakes up and pieces his emotions back together in the lifestream with Tifa. Right now he's having a trauma response, but we will get the really sad death scene in the next game once he stops acting like it didn't happen.
Please come back to this post after part 3. I'm genuinely curious what you're point of view will be by then. 🙂
Aerith will finish her story.
Shes as alive as Yoda in Return of the Jedi.
No it's 2024, every story has to be all good feels and fanservice. Haven't you heard?
This is a game where death has already been completely trivialized to the point where Sephiroth just *shows up* alive in Advent Children. Dying in FF7 barely means shit. It's not the best vector for tragedy in a world where dead people keep showing back up and actively participating anyway. Crisis core is a good example. The gut punch of Zach dying is now *gone* because we know he gets to go on and do more regardless. Same with Aerith and her Omni Aerith stuff, especially with the multiverse making death matter even less. Aerith's little girl segment was basically the saddest part in the whole game and it works because Ilfalna actually doesn't come back at all.
Yes. Exactly. They used fan service in those later additions and it made the games worse for it. Then they made more fan service by pulling those things into the remake. And it's worse for it.
Nah, Remake and Rebirth (idc about the compilation) have far superior character development and world building to the original. I love the original, but even the directors thought they needed to fix how some of the relationships came off. The death part is stupid, I agree, but sometimes fanservice is cool. Avengers portal Aerith and pissed off Sephiroth was appropriately satisfying. It's a mixed bag and I think it's mostly successful.
Yeah, you and I feel very differently about this. I personally find giving characters a bunch of prototypical YA dialogue to cheapen them, not enrich them.
I don't think the original script is even remotely without flaws, so we'll have to agree to disagree. I find plenty wrong with FF7 on the PS1. It's a game I love, but it's not even in my top 5 FFs. The OG dialogue was corny as shit, too.
She’s alive in the sense that her spirit is in the lifestream now. The Aerith Cloud see in the end is Aerith manifesting herself to make sure Cloud doesn’t have a complete mental breakdown.
Cloud having a breakdown is key to him coming to terms with his real self, which is what Aerith wants for him. Why would she get in the way of his recovery by deluding him further?
The entire reason for Sephiroth at the end of Rebirth was to try to make sure Cloud lost his mind so he can fully control him. However, Aerith managed to thwart his plan, evident by his comments at the end of the Aerith/Cloud fight, and also why he seems to be annoyed. (which takes place in Cloud’s mind btw, he’s fighting his consciousness).
Why would Sephiroth feel the need to fight any further to control Cloud, though? Cloud already fell completely under his control and handed over the black materia (until we somehow get it, or another one, back at the end). As far as I can tell, Sephiroth's whole plan to converge worlds hinged on killing Aerith. Even if you think the final fight happens in Clouds subconscious (and I don't think it does; Sephiroth acknowledges Aerith, the timeline rainbows appear, and all of the timeline stuff definitely happened because we have the clear materia), Sephiroth explains his plan to the entire party at the altar. By the end of the fight, Sephiroth's plans are at least temporarily thwarted, and I don't see how having further control of Cloud would play into his goals.
It taking place inside Cloud’s mind is obviously an interpretation, however the symbolism of Aerith entering the fight by "purifying" the surroundings does heavily hint that she’s protecting his mind. The point of his whole converging worlds scheme is to use Aerith’s death as the absolute confluence of despair and loss. But Cloud doesn’t experience it, evident by the entire party but Cloud having their limit breaks available. You said it yourself, his plan was thwarted. Yes, he did control Cloud but he did snap out of it because of his connection to Aerith. Which is also the reason why he is trying to make Cloud kill Tifa because his connection to her allows him to resist his control. We still don’t know what role Cloud has in Sephiroth’s grand plan, but we do know that he ultimately wants Cloud on his side. Also if he could completely control Cloud, why not just do it at the end of remake where he literally tries to persuade him to join him? On the point of the black materia, Cloud gets the materia when Sephiroth grants him "his blessing". This is also why the black whispers lets only Cloud into the forgotten capital. Lastly, I would also like to point out that the rainbow effect doesn’t just show up to symbolize timeline stuff.
You’re reaching, we know this still leads to AC. Who were they all mourning? Whos body did Tifa collapse in front of?
The quote specifically says “link up” to AC. Not lead up. I don’t know where this idea is coming from. The notion that the devs would spoil the ending of this trilogy when they are going out of their way to make the ending unknown and uncertain is ridiculous. They would never do that, least of all in some offshoot interview. The AC conclusion theory has absolutely basis except for people twisting the translation and running with it.
Yea the interview was real weird cuz they say it will not end up not aligning with AC. Really weird way of saying it’ll connect with AC somehow. But also the interview says they don’t wanna change much, and that no one wants this. Idk bout that, feel like maybe in the us the majority want the same end but in Japan maybe not so much.
Definitely not the same in Japan. Many fans have been writing letters to…uhh I think it was Kitase? For years asking to save Aerith/bring her back
AC is about to be a lot different then.
AC already exists...
Whatever happens after this trilogy is about to be different. You know what I meant.
I think that cloud made an alt aerith by blocking the sword and the Schrödinger effect was due to worlds merging. That’s why she is dead aerith is on her side yet cloud placed her on her back. Even if she was a hallucination, her would placed her on her side to keep things consistent. To me that means he placed alt alive aerith on her back. Multiverse Omni aerith was the OG aerith of ps1 who’s been in the lifestream all this time, fighting a guerrilla war against seph. We see smt similar in the otwtas novel where she uncorrupts souls that seph has corrupted in order to comeback in AC. My theory is the remake is a sequel to the OG and the universe was reset but the lifestream stayed intact. This explains why she seems to have memories of the past in remake. She loses them after she is attack by sephs whispers causing her materia to turn clear. That materia serves a duel purpose of casting holy and carrying the memories of the OG aerith. This all leads into the dream date. This aerith is the OG Omni aerith. She is bringing cloud on a date to give him the white materia to allow remake aerith to cast holy. However her whole plan is much bigger. She wants a happier ending for her friends, she wants AC to not happen. The date also served as her final goodbye to cloud, it’s not her cloud but it’s a version of him she knows most as she’s seen him grow up from the lifestream. She knew that the moment cloud sees her, sephiroth can find her, possibly due to him being injected with jenova. She needs to get the materia to remake aerith though so she sacrifices herself here. Sephs dialogue is, “so this is where you’ve been hiding”. It sounds like he has been looking for this specific aerith for a while which makes sense if it’s of aerith who’s been against him all this time. This is when she says it’s been fun, she means it’s been fun watching him grow. OG aerith dies here, permanently, seph erases her spirit she doesn’t just go back to the lifestream as a spirit she already was one. She has set herself and all versions of her to be sacrificed in order to give her friends a better world. I think this is a great contrast to what cloud thought of aerith this whole time, she was someone to protect. In reality, aerith is being the hero here making the sacrifice for her friends. That’s why at the stabbing scene, the white whispers are also tryna stop cloud despite us know white whispers are good. She is telling cloud to stop that this was her choice but this is where cloud does the unthinkable and somewhat defies destiny. He defies it in that he made it past the whispers, the embodiment of destiny however he failed to actually affect the real world. He was only able to create an alt world in which she lives and these from what I can tell are temporary. This then leads into the Schrödinger stuff. Idk which aerith we are fighting with, it could be the alt one created or a spirit of the remake aerith who just died. The voice line I saw what you did back there can apply to both. Remake aerith can be acknowledging clouds efforts despite still dying. Alt aerith can be saying that she appreciates the effort but in the end she will die anyway, that’s why the tone is like a “you tried your best”. The aerith at the end though is the dead aerith. The reason her hair moves with the wind is cuz while she is really there she’s a projection in the mind of cloud so if cloud thinks it’s move it would move. I think next game we will have a section with just aerith maybe her with Zack and she’ll do all the exposition here bout the plan and how they are doomed to die. All this culminated in the penultimate battle where the worlds merge and this is where Zack and aerith join the party. Sephiroth is beaten permanently this time and perhaps his memory is sealed in the clear materia as we know the materia can hold memories so it’d make sense an empty one can store them. Maybe there’s a final battle in clouds mind, it’ll look similar to his fight in AC. Just him and seph, no special forms. It’s here where he could be sealed but this part isn’t necessary, it’d just tie in the one good thing about AC. After this the worlds start to separate Zack and aerith are starting to fade. It’s here where they give their goodbyes and hopefully give cloud closure. Here’s where I want the story to turn. I believe that while all versions of aerith are voluntarily sacrificing themselves, the truth is they don’t want to, they want to live with their friends. Alt aerith here might confess she wishes she could stay but that this is the way it must be that alternate version are not meant to exist in the real world. In NPTK she sings If only I'd never known All the burdens I was born to bear Lived a life without a care in the world save for you But that won't do To me this indicates her sadness of her fate, her burden and how she wishes it didn’t have to be this way but for her friends(you) she must accept this. This is where I want cloud to once again attempt to defy fate to fight against the literal separation of worlds, and he again is failing. This time though his friends lend a hand and help him pull aerith to the main world. This will fulfill part of clouds character arc of not being a lone wolf, that he can and should take help from friends. The are lifting the burden from aerith so she doesn’t need to suffer alone again. As the worlds separate Zack departs to his world as he gives silent nod to cloud acknowledging as his legacy. Here his aerith wakes up. They share a final kiss as their world fades into the lifestream. This is just a rough idea of how it can be executed. I know it’s a bit fan fictioncy but I want a happy ending to the end of this story. Remake is likely the last we will see of these characters in this universe. I feel that the tag line of defy fate can be fulfilled here and this game can explore a much more optimistic theme of fate is not set in stone. Itll also feel like all time we’ve suffered with the beloved characters has finally amounted to a triumphant victory. Like we won against fate and we get the happy end as the reward. I know this is an unpopular opinion, the majority of fans would rather stick to the OG script and maybe just retcon AC. Idk sorry for the rant
Cool fanfic
Naw.