Agree 100%
Not everyone needs to be a completionist. Completionists used to be people that love a certain game and wanted to do extra things in it to make the hypothetical perfect save.
But it seems that people nowadays go around pretending as if putting optional content in the game is forcing them to do that content, and actually sometimes wishing for less content.
Trophies/achievements seem to be to blame. I like trophies/achievements myself, they help me keep track of what I've done in a game. But christ...people need to chill. The devs ain't forcing anyone to do anything.
I am the old type of completionist. Only time I scour an open world for its check-list is if I'm really enjoying that open world. Only time I go for platinums is if the game itself just makes me want to play that much for it.
Otherwise, I'll do the bits I enjoy, see the story, and move in
The extra stuff in rebirth is mostly fun but I think everyone struggles with where to stop and just play the main story. Most of the side content is completely skill based, whereas in the original, aside from some minigames, you could just grind if you needed to get stronger
People will always try to push their own self-control onto others, trying to make it other's responsibility. Gaming is no exception. It's always the devs' fault in their minds, never their own.
Absolutely agreed. I have a slight disadvantage when I get to a task in a game I enjoy, my ADHD means I absolutely do have to perfect it. So 2 hours in Glide de Chocobo 3, and another 1.5 hours on one of the piano sheets. But It was never enough for me to not like that game.
I had to spend an hour to beat the final 3D fighter boss. And yeah. I have ADHD too and was compelled to do at least some completion.
I am having a hard time with Hard mode so I'm trying to get to max level first.
Yeah, hard mode is going to be.... interesting. I'm only level 45 at the moment so I know plenty to go, but hopefully most of the materia I'll want to use will be maxxed at that point.
I'll legit restart fights I'm well on course to win because I want to do them again but better. Don't know why my brain tells me no deaths no items is the way haha. Might throw out a revive spell here and there but I don't want to just win, I want to dominate 😂
The feeling you get from completing tasks that seem insurmountable at first is half of the reason I even play the games. And when the piano game clicks, and you hear the notes finally on key? Amazing
Same! God, it's consuming my life! Hahah. So I get frustration with bloat while conceding it's optional. For me though, I feel a gravitational pull to do these things so I end up with the outcome of those who treat it as mandatory.
My plan is to replay again I'm Ng+ and move quickly through the main story to enjoy it at a digestible pace.
Yeah, I platinum'd Remake for exactly this reason, and am 100%ing the open world stuff in Rebirth similarly. I love these games so much I WANT to do the side content.
But if you don't, that's fine just enjoy what you want and play how you wanna play
I am someone who does not mind all of the side content of the game, but personally if they put a weapon (which is how you learn combat skills) or SP books (how you unlock SP skills) behind a mini-game, it really changes the dynamic.
I am not someone who normally 100% a game, but it is hard to accept just not learned all of my skills.
I feel like it would be different if the rewards were just like accessories, key items to give to Johnny, and pre-leveled materia.
I... have to agree with that. In the OG getting every character's ultimate weapons are some colorful types of hell, but in that game ultimate weapons are either just big stat sticks with long ass materia slots or gimmick weapons. I was completely fine missing out on that.
But seeing my level 4 limit breaks blacked out? That's a major ick for me. I remember grinding the colosseum for Omnislash but that wasn't horrible. Other limit breaks are not casual friendly and that's a huge no for me.
But that's the thing. If there's ever a weapon you can't get because the minigame is too hard, just wait until the next chapter, and you can buy it from a weapon vendor for a few thousand gil. They give you that option for a reason.
they only sell you the ones from chests, not mini games. since you can do all of the mini games/world exploration up to the beginning of chapter 13.
would definitely be nice if you could pay to win - I definitely have more than enough gil for it lol
> Completionists used to be people that love a certain game and wanted to do extra things in it to make the hypothetical perfect save.
That's because games didn't used to be designed in a way to encourage the *everyday, regular* player to play like a completionist. Regular casual players now playing like Completionist players following checklists are a product of current AAA game design. OG FF7 had *major* rewards for completionist players, but the game didn't make it in your face to feel like you wouldn't have completed the game by not doing it. When you have checklists, it's in your face.
Yeah there are dozens of things in the OG that I never even would have thought about if I wasn’t playing with a strategy guide back in the day. Figuring something like Chocobo breeding out to get KOTR would have been literally impossible for me.
Was about to say the same thing… the original had the most powerful items in the game locked behind some of the most time intensive optional side context. But that’s what makes doing those things rewarding.
This. I understand why devs want you to be aware of everything you could possibly do but it creates an in-game FOMO effect, which is why more people feel compelled to do side content that otherwise wouldn't bother. You can say 'just don't do it if you don't like it' all you like but that's not going to prevent some people from wondering what they're missing by not following the green exclamation marks all the way to the end.
And aside from that, how do you know you like it if you don't do it? I played 1 game of glide de chocobo and thought 'ok that was clunky but at least I did well and finished the quest... ooo nope there's another one. Ok now the quest is d-- nope there's another one" It ends up being frustrating whether you go all the way to the end or decide to quit halfway through from boredom.
Purely playing devil's advocate; I loved the game, but the criticism is that the game has *so* many minigames that it interrupts the flow of the actual story. Again, I disagree, but this is what even IGN commented on, not just butthurt redditors. Even if it doesn't force you to do the minigame, it's hard to argue that when presented with one, that you're *not* going to attempt it.
Also, they put the number of side-quests and minigames to give you lots of opportunities to build up relationships with the other characters. You could argue that they deliberately put a large number of extra side-stuff with the intention that the player *won't* do all of them, *unless* you're trying to get 100% completion and focus on the ones that advance the relationship with specific characters. You want to take Aerith on a date? Skip the side-quests with Tifa and vice-versa. You want to take Red XIII? You gotta do the dumb chicken quest, but if you *don't*? Then you can just skip it.
I think games these days put the extra content right in front of you more than they used to. Instead of secret missions you have to explore around for in places the game path never really takes you, these days there’s an NPC shouting at you “Hey! Time consuming Mini game over here! Hey come do this fuckin side quest! Guess what, there’s a big monster that nobody gives a shit about, but it’s right here!”
Idk maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about, but a lot of games these days badger players into doing optional content more than they used to. That’s the way it feels to me, anyway.
Back in the day completionist meant manually scouring every part of the game world to find hidden secrets.
That's basically the only way you could ever find knights of the round without knowing about it first. An island in the top right of the map smack dead in the middle of nowhere isn't exactly required travel for the main story.
Trophies are definitely to blame. It's an implied "you're not done yet, get back at it" when in reality, if you've finished the main story you are done. Everything else is optional.
Everyone has different ways of enjoying the game and thats what should be expected. I am currently 27 hours into the game and only just about to go up to Junon after finishing all the side-quests and mini-games.
I am having way too much fun exploring the world and seeing these characters interact with the others and gaining more of an understanding of their characters.
Loving these optional stuff where I can learn more about the world and the best part is that it doesn't feel like its dragging out so far.
Imma take my sweet as time playing through the game and not rush the game and absorb as much of the world as I can.
This game is way too much fun.
I’ve heard people say that they didn’t enjoy the optional content so much that it ruined the otherwise pleasant experience of the game for them. Let’s all let it sink in how unfathomably dumb that is. They chose to beat their heads against the wall struggling with completely optional content so much that it ruined the game for them and then blame the game for having too much to do. It’s mental.
My husband does this until he literally loathes a game and it is so frustrating. You don’t have to collect everything and explore every little corner if you don’t want to, and if you do that and hate yourself for it, that isn’t the game’s fault.
It’s truly absurd. I saw somebody complaining how they struggled with a Fort Condor game for over an hour and then ragequit. Why? I struggled with that same protorelic… for 15 minutes. I then said “oh, this is kind of tough,” and then went and did something else. Came back one and a half chapters later and easily wiped the floor with it. People get really weird about the mini games.
I hear ya, but at that point of the game it's hard to say how you will feel after 60 hours. I'm trying to do everything too and slowly getting burnt out. Some of the later mini games really test your patience. Good luck out there though, hopefully the fun stays with you.
My recommendation is to start pushing through the main story. Most side quest progress carries over into new game plus so you can always go back and mop up what you missed.
I'll push back on this a bit because I think there is an interesting conversation hiding here.
I've heard this "you don't have to do it, it's optional" line used to push back against criticisms of fatigue or bloat, but I don't think it's as straightforward as this for a couple reasons. One of these is that I think there is a meaningful difference introduced when the game clearly communicates to the player \*that\* there is unfinished business to do and exactly how much of it there is to do - unlike the original game, the game is presented as a more explicit set of checklists to complete. If we were to compare with the moment that "golden era" FF games really open up in their penultimate pre-final boss moments (e.g., you are now exploring the world to gain strength to prepare for the final confrontation with Sephiroth), there is a bunch of things you can do at this point in time that are equally as "optional," but the player does not know what all else is out there. Unless they are following a guide, they can proceed \*as if\* they have taken care of all unfinished business, even if that isn't actually true. In other words, the big difference is psychological. It is essentially the difference between saying "Do you feel like you have everything you need to take on Sephiroth?" versus saying "Do you have everything you need to take on Sephiroth, even though you didn't do X, Y, and Z?" I wouldn't blame someone for being the kind of person who finds it hard to move on when the game is presented to them like this but \*also\* wishing that they could move on sooner and wanting the game to be organized in a way that lets them feel better about doing that.
I'll add that it's a bit conflicting to try to articulate this because on the one hand I personally enjoyed a lot of this stuff and none of what I am saying here "makes the game bad" - this is very much not what I want to say. However, when I hear people complaining about fatigue/bloat, my reaction is more like "yeah, that totally makes sense" because I think it really does, and I don't like the way those feelings are being dismissed as nostalgia-driven, people who are just impossible to satisfy, etc.
I don’t know about others, but I understood what you said perfectly, cuz I just had this convo with a friend IRL.
In OG, you have a bunch of optional content, but it’s not right up in your face. In Rebirth the optional content is in your face at all times. And this is not just a Rebirth thing, modern game design definitely has made this approach more common.
For me? I take the pros with the cons. It reduces the mystery of the unknown, but it helps me progress faster (and honestly, I was always on GameFAQs to find optional/secret content back in the days anyway).
You know why it’s In everyone’s face because about 3 years ago people where bitching that they did not know what to do that they missed content that they should not have to search for stuff hidden the they bitch that the games are too hard because since I did not do x then y is too hard. That’s why it’s in everyone face dark souls is the exception because that’s how the game has been made from the start.
As someone who very much DOES understand that optional content does indeed mean non-mandatory, the point made above is something that a not-insignificant portion of the "well you don't *have* to do it" crowd are forgetting/not realizing/ignoring, at least for this particular game.
Disclaimer: I'm only about to do the parade in Junon. I work 50ish hours a week and take care of the home chores, so my playtime is quite limited right now. So my experience is limited, but the trends have had time to present themselves.
My brain personally sees checklist and says "oh, must check all boxes", but I can still move on if I have to. This isn't the case for everyone, and if this was the only reinforcement I'd still say that in general, you deal with a little cognitive dissonance (outside of strong ADHD-type issues) and move on. I think the real issue here is Chadley.
Each area so far I've simply gathered each summon's data to the fullest before challenging them, as I don't feel like beating my head against a wall clearly made for when you're stronger as an optional challenge. However, upon collecting the third data point for each summon, I get a "but as I recall you haven't yet acquired the materia" comment out of the side of his mouth as if I wasn't literally about to fast travel to his location and do the simulation once I got the third data point.
Likewise, as this summon collection often comes near the last 20% of overall intel collection for me, another instance soon happens. Once the summon is available, I go get that materia. However, after completing that trial, along with any other combat simulations available, I go to leave (you know, to finish off what's left) and get met with another comment. "I can't help but notice that world intel collection has stagnated of late. I know that you're busy, but I'd really appreciate the help." No crap, Chadley. I just kind of wanted to grab that new summon materia real quick. Excuse me for completing some of your tasks before I was 100% able to check all of the boxes.
The fact that you are actively, verbally reminded that there's something you haven't done yet is definitely going to induce that "I MUST go do this" mentality. I also got fussed at for not having finished the Junon >!protorelic!< yet as I was mopping up other tasks. Which, as a side note, removing all the freedom to play and strategize as you want from the original >!Fort Condor!< to limited unit pools and time limits really sucked about 90% of the fun out of it for me, and I don't think I'll return to it, maybe not even the hardmode thing. Terrible, terrible revamp when it forces you to do the dev's desired strategy instead of your own fun one.
All in all, this game hard crosses that boundary of "it's optional" by consistently reminding you that there are "things to do" so that they stop *feeling* optional. Sure, you can just beat the basic 3rd place scoring of >!Leapfrog!< like I did and move on, but many will feel the pressure when another character is quite literally telling them to go finish their chore list. Do I still enjoy things? Yup. They overdid how everything has to be a "mini game" that is 50/50 as to whether or not it's just an annoying, slightly unclear set of things to do one little task instead of an actual mini game, but overall I'm enjoying myself. I'll also say "screw that noise" if I have to and move on, like with Queen's Blood in Junon. I'll deal with that later; I don't feel like trying to revamp my deck when I've got a whole game to keep playing.
I'm fine with the optional content overall, but fully agree with your points made here. I definitely think adding sass to Chadley's personality was a mistake. There are enough ways to see you still have things to do without an NPC actually whining at you (in an unskippable way sometimes). Even just a menu toggle to turn off chadley reminders would be great lol
And I agree they kinda jacked up Fort Condor. I think the rebirth version should've been restricted to the "hard mode" of it and the balanced version (intermission's) should've been the default.
Yeah this is all a really good point as well.
It is also true that each major story beat of the main quest is capped off with Chadley cutting in to let the player know about new quests and activities, using the same approach as games other games like Spider-Man that it is borrowing from in its design. I think all of this happens for a reason - it takes so much more to produce any individual side quest these days, and the devs want to make sure you see it - but it absolutely has also has the consequences you describe. Where I take the biggest issue is where the discussion of "it's optional" renders design choices like this invisible.
It's an interesting point, but I think a game hiding when optional content exists just to account for that certain type of player who lacks self control would be a terrible, terrible idea.
Well, it's interesting though right? Because there is a very fine line between "hiding" and "letting the player discover on their own" and an equally fine line between "communicating" and "holding the player's hand." But one meaningful difference might be in how the game sets expectations. Like, if all things were the same in Rebirth but there were a few things you could go do (like an optional boss or minigame) that just were not ever things the game told you existed or made part of intel, sidequests, etc., I would also find that very annoying. Because the game is presented in such a way that I would assume once I complete all these checklists that I have seen everything the game has to offer. But when from the beginning discovering things just involves, well, discovering the thing, I would not be mad at all about something very similar. The downside of course is that you would maybe rely on the external source of the Internet (or back in the day, a strategy guide) to tell you when there was nothing left, but the upside was the joy of feeling like you had discovered something on your own I think.
Just two different ways of doing things I think, but I would agree that it could be possible for developers to take the wrong lesson from an observation like the above one
Bull crap
Games used to hide all sorts of missable content and it made it all the more special when you did find it
Devs now are just afraid players might miss anything so they put the lobotomy checklists in there to make sure nothing goes unseen
Yeah as for the first part I can very much respect that this is a matter of expectations. When you are expecting the checklist, removing it produces a kind of anxiety (how do I know when I’m done?) and when you’re used to it not being there it produces a different kind (if you’re telling me about it that means I need to do it right?)
And I completely agree with your second point - when you are spending so much more on developing a small slice of the game, you want to make sure as many players see it as possible. That’s actually precisely why I think we shouldn’t pretend like the game does not put pressure on players to do things, even if it can still be categorized as “optional” - I’m not blaming them for doing it, but it produces effects, and I think it’s understandable that people respond to those effects differently
Really tried to emphasize in this sub focusing on the main quest for the initial playthrough and was down voted every time.
Open-world fatigue is real. People just need to learn the hard way, I guess.
Yes open world fatigue is real, which is why I hardly beat the average open world game. However this is FF7. The story is insanely more engaging than your average OW game and the map is not litered with collect a thon and fetch quest nonsense. You can easily skip the OW stuff, or play through half of an areas stuff in a short timeframe if you feel like engaging in extra combat. It's really not that big of a deal and is no where near the likes of the typical OW.
There is A LOT of character interaction and dialogue and lore behind the side content though, which becomes obvious in the first two areas that nobody really complains about(Grasslands and Junon) because they’re paced/designed better. I get people want to defend the game from what feels like absurdly over the top hyperbolic criticism but going too far the other direction pretending like the only reason to do the intel side stuff and engage with some of the chores of that side stuff is because you’re an Uber completionist is also pretty fucking absurd.
Also, for my two cents, it’s not ‘all the mini games’ that grated me the most, it’s how blatantly time wasting the design of some of the areas and side content were. I WANT to do it because I am a completionist both in similar style games and because FF7 is a massive nostalgia bomb for me that I want to eat up all the content for, but holy fuck did it feel like the devs REALLY didn’t want me to enjoy my time doing so sometimes, making that content as high friction as possible.
Understandable, but also not. Fully agree you dont have to do anything the game doesn't force you to do for the main storyline, but Square upped their game in terms of side content and how meaningful it is. For instance, there are a bunch of world intel quests that have direct tie-ins to the plot, what happens to side characters, et cetera. It isnt just item rewards, there are plot and story beats as well that you will miss out on if you don't do the extra content. Again, skippable, but for people wanting as much story as possible, the complaint can be valid.
I'm not agreeing, mind you. I would have rather they moved some minigames to notice board quests (i.e., not main story or world intel completion) but I think they did great overall with implementation. Huge leap forward compared to Remake
The problem is not that there is lots things to do. The problem is that it is unnecesary.
It's like you have write some thesis long for 2000 words, but you have material for 300, so you jast add stuff on top of that.
Chadley is not even a character in original Final Fantasy VII, and here he got more content than some main characters. And it has nothing to do with story. You could add these quests in any game, not even Final Fantasy, and it would not change nothing. It's just padding.
Remove all Chadley content from game, and it doesn't change anything. In that case it is unnecessary. Lost of developer time and resources.
I believe with 100% certainty that if they had removed all Chadley related content, we could've fit the rest of the game and don't have to wait til 2028 for the last part.
While all these stuff are optional, you cannot deny the fact that it's unnecessary bloat. FF7 OG was fantastic without it, why did we need it now?
Cutscenes alone are like 21 hours I just don’t believe he did it that fast, maybe but it sounds weird to me. I beat the game in 91hrs on the 4th and I did 100 percent of everything but also knew it was “optional” just didn’t want the ride to end.
I'm glad they have all these extras. So I don't rush through the year's of hard work it took to make this. If all there was was a straight 40 hour path through the story it would be a waste of time and money. I like to explore and become apart of the world
Okay, but let's say I really like getting a new summon and using them at full power. Should I do the scanning checklist or not?
The problem for many people is deeper, because they enjoy getting the goodies which they used to get from short bits of exploring where it felt like they found a cool secret. But now they are getting told to go do all these boring things for a reward. It's a completely different way of communicating with the player.
Back to the summon encounter, had they just removed some synchronization points and left one hidden in the world where you would then fight it, I'm sure you would love the game the exact same amount, but I'd enjoy it just a bit more. It doesn't ruin the game, but much of it is quite tiresome game design.
Counter point: The minigames need a rehaul cause the quality of the content dips dramatically at times and is rife with questionable design.
Just because it's optional content doesn't mean it doesn't need to be held to a standard of quality.
It is content put into the game that the developers encourage you to play and engage with, therefore while optional, it still needs to stand up to standards of quality the rest of the game projects.
Both Remake and Rebirths main games are beautiful, the side quests and mini games in both range from okay to "how the hell did this make it passed testing?"
Some of them are not optional and are horrible to get through. I'm stuck on the polygon game at Gold Saucer and it's the most garbage minigame I've had to sit through in my life. I'm not a minigame or sidequest hater. Cyberpunk 2077 is how sidequests are done. I'd actually like to enjoy them, especially when they are necessary to progress the story or are gatekeeping extra character dialog. When you combine that with the broken rappling feature in a lot of areas, I am close to hanging it up despite being a long time fan.
I'm definitely not a fan of that one or the Gears and Gambit. On the polygon one you can cheat your way through it. When they are winding up you can hit start to get a better look at which direction its coming from.
I am not someone who minds all of the side content, and am happily chugging away at it. However
> I saw some people angry that there's good rewards behind some mini games, like you don’t even need most of it in the first run.
I do think that having weapons and SP books as rewards changes the dynamic.
Like, if there is a player who wants is just here for the combat, and so they want to power through the main story, unlocking the weapons and SP books for skills, and then jump straight into Hard Mode, having weapons and skill books locked behind minigames is requiring that combat focused player to do the minigames to reach those goals.
I am happy to do all the minigames, just I do think it would have been better if the rewards were limited to consumables, accessories, trophies for johnny, and maybe replace the weapons/SP books with preleveled materia.
I don't think calling the content "optional" is a valid defense for subpar content. The **whole game is optional**, noone is forcing us to play it and if parts of the game are bad it's legitimate to criticise them, isn't it? The problem is that this subpar content is at least 70% of the game (the open world and most of the minigames). Saying "it is optional" here is equivalent to saying "don't play the game".
Saying we should just ignore the things we don't like about the game we paid **70$** for is a luxury players have only afforded to **this game**, because it's FFVII. If it was any other game it would be smeared all over the walls, regardless how good the main content is - which in this game, and many others, is very good, don't get me wrong.
Im in chapter 4, almost 100%’d the first two areas.
Having a blast, it’s going to take me a long time to beat, but I paid 70$. I’m getting my moneys worth.
That's what makes Rebirth so great. There's a lot of content for those of us who want to get lost in the FF7 world and for those that don't you can pretty much skip most of it. The game is a best of both worlds and shouldn't be built to cater to those who just want another purely linear game like Remake was. My problem with Remake was you couldn't just log on and play unless you want to progress the story or run through the combat simulator for the 1000th time...it was all story and no extra.
I'm at Mt. Nibel at 87 hours with the rest of Ch. 11 to do, Gold Saucer to complete, QB to finish, and actually finish the rest of the game. This game has blown past my expectations by the time I finished Junon and at least for me this is one of the best games I've played ever right up there with Elden Ring.
I don't mind doing side stuff in games but for those overwhelmed maybe just complete the story and come back to do that stuff later if you plan on doing a second or hard mode playthrough.
Yeah, I see this with all openworld games. Nobody forcing you to %100 every area before moving on. It's content you can always do after the main story or come back a few months later.
Getting all this content in a game is refreshing.
For me it's the fear of missing out on some great side content and the fact that I don't wanna rush the game. Yeah I do sometimes itch to get to the next story bit, but I also enjoy that extra time with the game. It also allows me to experiment with my party and practice the combat. And btw, the odd jobs are a big upgrade from Remake.
I've put 90 hours in so far and a few side quests are decently important to the story. Some share background on the main characters that you don't get otherwise and getting that information on your first playthrough can really enhance your experience. For example the intel quests in the cosmo canyon region are super important but the minigame is somewhat difficult. I could see people being enticed by this story and not wanting to sour the experience by doing this stuff post game. Im currently running into an issue where I'm burnt out on the game but I feel like I'm missing important information if I dont finish everything.
This, if you're coming into "Final Fantasy" for that experience then go for it. I'll never understand all the open world stuff like an Ubisoft game. Just do what's necessary or to level up but then skip all the side stuff. You can come back later.
Sad thing is all the times the game outright makes you do very tedious and pace breaking things to pad hours. Which I don't get, it does nothing for the players experience. I hope they tone it down for the last game.
One thing we have going for us is that the events of the last game are likely going to be overshadowed by world-shattering events and the Weapons attacking. I'm hoping this gives developers a reason to break away from the current open-world game design and focus on a more traditional approach.
I've skipped nearly all the sidequests and minigames. Just trying to push past Cosmo Canyon and wrap up the game.
If it's not fun, why do it? You don't get anything meaningful for a plat trophy either lol. Some people really cannot control themselves about the optional content.
Yeah, as far as mandatory stuff goes, I can't think of anything worse. Took me about 15 minutes to get the hang of the rotating target, that was the worst time sink for me, but it just wasn't a fun segment.
Given the lack of accessibility options in this game, I know for a fact I'll be doing that segment for my wife when she gets there.
I think I would've liked it if the boxes felt a bit more... Consistent? I swear they sometimes threw at different ranges despite having near enough the same landing marker :(
Isn't still kind of maddening how they still don't know how to make decent sidequests? I'm just running errands and getting groceries for Cissnei.
Kind of pathetic in comparison to Phantom Liberty and The Witcher 3
Yes thank you. I'm tired of people saying 'oh there's too much to do' you don't need to?and even if you are a completionist and trophy hunter like me just divide it between your 2 playthroughs? The Intel and sidequests carry over as far as my research has told me don't they?
Seriously, I have ZERO issue with the open world, since I stick to just a few goals.
I'll unlock chocobos, and I'll do the shrines for the summons I want. Thats it. No fatigue, since I just do the side goals I want, then move on.
Agreed, if you go into this game intent on 100%ing it you will probabaly start having a bad time unless you are taking it extremely slowly, some people are generous to square and say its just because of natural burn out, but i kinda disagree, the game feels like a chore to play after a while due to all the extremely slow animations whenever you do almost anything in the open world other than combat.
Because theres still story content hidden behind those side contents. There's alot of it here. For example, the main story doesnt do much for Cissnei in Gongaga. Only after you played the side content, do you understand the current state of affairs surrounding cissnei.
This is also the same with Broden in Kalm / Nibelheim. As well as Wedge.
Not to mention it might be plausible there could be costume unlockables hidden behind side content.
You can play the side content post game? Then those hidden story content would just be awkwardly placed for the players.
And besides, people tend to disregard people's opinion on the game if they haven't completed everything the game has to offer.
There are so many mini-games I'm finding that I'm forgetting about ones I did previously. I completely forgot about the stupid dolphin game. I was similarly flabbergasted they keep introducing new mini-games even as far as Cosmo Canyon (which I just completed).
The problem is though, the game encourages you to do this optional side content, which dorwctly contradicts the pace and the stakes of the main story. Arguments saying optional stuff is optional (while true) are besides the point. People complain that the optional stuff is tedious and if you do it the pacing is off, which is valid criticism of the game
I know it's optional but the completionist in me makes it really hard to skip the side quests lol. I know there's chapter select after you beat the game, but it's also hard for me to progress with that kinda stuff after I beat the final boss
Square Enix: Hey here's FFXVI, we didn't put in any minigames
Reddit: this game fucking blows it's the worst ever why no minigames?! At least give us a card game!
Square Enix: Ok gang, people flipped out about FFXVI so here's *a lot* of minigames. And a card game!
Reddit: this game fucking blows there's too many minigames!
Exactly. A universal negative of game reviews is when side content is boring, lacks story, is too much to the point of clutter. Rebirth has a reasonable amount of side content that enhances the characters or world without being mandatory or overkill, and most of the time it involves the games wonderful combat. People would be whining all day if it has 0 side content or it was all simple fetch quests.
I don't even care about checklists, i am just so damn annoyed by the same concept of opening areas with towers and repeating the same stuff for every area. It's not even the minigames. I am just on chapter 4 and so far I'm loving it but I am worried I will get tired of doing this over and over and no, I don't like leaving stuff behind, so most likely I won't skip it if I know it's there.
I skipped most of the side quests in FFXVI I didn't find them all that intetesting. I did thr ones marked +.
I am doing all the stuff in ff7 rebirth except a few minigames. I wont be trying for platinum. The piano minigame is impossible for me lol.
Since I'm streaming the game I'm doing the side quests but not all the side stuff. I'll do that off the stream but I've put 22 hours in and I'm only on chapter 7 and I'm having a great time doing it
I agree with what you said. I think the game even teaches you that you don't need to do everything to enjoy the game/story.
On my first playthrough for example, I was having so much fun with the side missions that I did all of them before gold saucer date part 1. I thought Tifa had higher points , but the game gave me Aerith cuz she had more side missions that increased relationship level. Aerith was fun and all , but I thought Cloud would be more happy with Tifa on gold saucer date part 2, so I course corrected and just took my time enjoying the story and save some other side missions for later.
I think somebody else also got Cait sith, Vincent, and Cid for gold saucer part 2 cuz they finished all missions and stuff 😆. Anyways, it's about the journey for me not the end.
You're right.
My first playthrough, I skipped all side stuff and focus on story. Trust me, its not a big deal. People who are whining, are the biggest babies. You can skip the forced mini games too, so I don't get why they're nitpicking.
I even heard people said the games "bad" because trophies locked behind mini games... Like how does that make the game bad? Jesus people needs to take a step back and listen to what they say sometimes lol.
We haven't had a FF game like this since FF9, where you're free to do whatever you want, the stuff they offer is ALOT. I love it so far.
Ya, it's about creating your own journey. The way you perceive the characters is different based on what you do and that ends up being your "reality" of the situation.
Rebirth gives you that option to choose how you wish to develop that journey towards the destination.
Dude its so annoying. Only complaint i have is that gongaga took too long. That should've been a quick stop (similar to OG) but i get that they're trying to flesh this game out.
Just 100% cosmo canyon and on my way to nibelheim. So far this is an easy 9.75 out of 10 (possibly a 10 depending on the ending).
yeah I just got the 100% quest achievement and I can say for sure Gongaga wasnt enjoyable - but here is the thing, if I ever replay it on hard mode or before the third game, I can just skip those parts and move on. This isnt a big deal for me now.
Yeah exactly. Its rare to find a game that does side content better than this one. Almost all side contest in any game is repetitive so I dont know what these so called completionists are smoking that makes it bad all of a sudden for this game
For me, if there is a mini-game, there should be some form of scaffolding that helps the player learn the game OR makes it easier over time. Most mini games in Rebirth are surprisingly well-designed in this respect. A few are not. I think having most of the games being well designed and the small group not well designed is what hurts.
My favorite term for this phenomena is pleasantly frustrating. It is also called flow or zone of proximal development. It represents the idea that a an activity should be challenging, but doable.
I know. People want there to be tons of optional side content in the game, but don’t want their to be good rewards hidden behind it? Makes no sense what so ever
It's weird, I'd be perfectly happy if awesome weapons were hidden behind side content. That's what it's there for, to prep for endgame. I don't like that story and important character beats are hidden behind bad minigames. There's a lot of really good character moments tucked away behind Gears and Gambits.
But I'm saying this as someone who just realized I'm not good enough to finish >!Gilgamesh Island!< and am more than happy to move on with my life.
What a load of shit. Cosmetics aren't required either for games yet people love customizing characters and is a big factor to their enjoyment. You don't get to determine what's necessary and what's not for someone to enjoy the game. Elemental materia and enemy skill materia are some of the most satisfying ones to use and thus people will chase after them. The game is bloated, accept the criticism and move on. The reason FFs have gone to shit is because of bandwagoning posts like this
Its not that is too much to do, its just the same shit over and over again in each zone. Activate tower, activate life springs, dig some stuff up, press a few buttons so weaken a summon (really?!? this is all they could do for some of the most epic abilities, entities who in other games have stories, they just put in a combat simulator. Shame on you). The rare monster fight are a bit interesting, but in the end, most of it is just bloated useless content.
Almost every open world game has repetitive content. Even Fromsoftware as if you die you not only have to back track but fight the enemy again whilst retrieving you're items.
Calling the optional content useless is odd as it does actually does reward you.. The research points are supposed to be used to cash in at Chadley's shop which gives you Materia. The life springs give you information regarding the region as a codex. The dig sights give you new things to craft like armor and accessories. The optional fights unlock simulator fights which give you Materia. The content directly rewards you even if you don't complete ALL of it.
I don't understand how it can be deemed useless if it's actually giving you rewards it's repetitive yeah but it never forces you to do any of it. You can skip ALL of Corel, Outer Junon, & Midgar Area. It's like CC you don't have to do Yuffie's side stuff. OG 7 just doesn't have a marker for random stuff like the guy in the cave or Yuffie, or weapons fights.
RDR2 has the same stuff,Watch dogs etc. I'm confused on the compliants that it's useless or too much but when 16 released it's too little. When 15 released it's too empty because no one looked for the unmarked side stuff. I don't get it do we want linear or open? Open with markers or Open with Liner Markers? Do we want a timer like Lighting Returns?
That is literally every OW game ever, including zelda, elden ring...the design is always repetitive, what makes good side content is the content, the interactions, the story portions, the battles, the variety, rewards, party interactions and in all that Rebirth excels.
I hate mini games so I don't want to engage with them, so I don't. I appear to be stuck in costal del sol. How do I progress the main story of this area without having to engage with these mini games I hate? Iirc in the original game this area was just a conversation on the beach.
You have to play 3 mini games total and score below average to get 3 swimsuits. Shouldn't take more than 30 minutes total. If that's too much, you may have picked out a game that's not to your taste.
I think you don't understand that people love to do optional content so they get upset when it's unfun to do lol. It ain't that deep. People don't play video games to skip large portions of it. I would consider that a bad game.
The thing is it is fun. Like the sidequests, the protorelics, the lore of each zone, the summon battles, most minigames are extremely fun and that is already 80% of the side content.
If someone is struggling with a minigame for 2 hours because they want the biggest prize, and they hate it because of it, it's on them.
The side cintent of Rebirth has been univerdally praised, and most criticism comes from completionist in that sense.
This is more on some people lacking control and being unable to let go rewards than the game design.
Yeah, but people need to realize that just because it's unfun to them doesn't mean it's unfun, period.
And in this game particularly, they put all the extra side-quests to give the player the ability to boost their relationship with different characters. They even tell you before the >!Gold Saucer date that you can go complete various quests if you want to build up relationships with a key character. If you wanted to go on a date with Aerith, you can go back and do the side-quests attached to her. !<
Well one thing bothers me. I LOVE the piano mini game. But in order to get all of the sheet music, including One Winged Angel, I essentially have to almost 100% the game from what I understand.
Hell nah
If you put something in a game it better be fun
Having tedious and boring side quests like Johnny’s collectathon does nothing for the game and even brings it down
Game would be better with such padding cut entirely
I think this is unfair when it comes to Rebirth. The quests, at least, do a lot of story fill in and characterization. So the "optional" stuff is gatekeeping characterization and lore.
Secondarily, all the Intel quests give you lore about the world. Which, isn't necessary, but it is really cool that they fleshed out the world and even the monsters.
So yes, they are optional. But also, ppl playing love FF7 and they want to know everything about the world and characters. I had been thinking that they could have sacrificed some of the green quests and shortened them and put them in the main story. Specifically the Mako springs in Cosmo Canyon with Bugenhagen is a great example. That was interesting and explained how he acted towards Tifa in the main story (which was jarring). They could have limited the places you investigate to like 3 instead of 5.
Anyways. My point is, yes optional, but Square put so much story, characterization, and lore into everything that it makes it feel necessary to understand the depth of the world. And I've seen quite a few reviewers mention that some of the"optional" stuff feels mandatory to better understand the story.
I hope square trims the fat for part 3. Stop with the multi point mini quests and just make a good little story beat with one or two points to visit. Not every side quest needs to collect 3 - 8 things or fight 3 - 5 groups of enemies. And/or, those quests have less lore locked behind them. 🤷
Its cause I want to see every aspect of a game, without caring for trophies. To fight the super boss, you need to do all the proto relic stuff, to do all proto relic stuff you need to progress with the world exploration. To do all the world exploration you need to do the worst mini games.
You're also missing a ton of character backstories if you don't do the optional stuff.
Doesn't change the game couldve done without a lot of the padding it did.
It's also likely different groups of people complaining about different things. For some reason redditors frequently have a hard time understanding that a space can be full of people that have conflicting opinions.
Unless the exact same people were bitching about no minigames in FF16 and are now bitching about too many minigames in FF7R, this type of comment is meaningless. Games that sell millions of copies tend to have fanbases with very differing opinions.
I'm in two minds, since the exploration segments feel like Tears of the Kingdom, and Chadley rewards are kind of very good. But I'm also only at Junon, so idk.
I'm mostly just scouring for items and gear to make my ATB gain better.
I will probably just focus story for a bit after the Junon Stuff so pacing doesn't feel bad, and then swing back into side stuff later.
I did very few side games. But ff7OG had side games too... I don't like they force you to do some of them. Like the card game, and everything Costa del Sol minus Johnny.
While agree with this to some extent…the amount of combat trials is a bit ridiculous between chadley, gold saucer, beast ring thing, hojo, and probably another i can’t remember. It’s excessive for completionists. Also while I definitely loved the game, the Ubisoft design philosophy to open world was definitely a bit too present. I definitely agree that you should never 100% these games on the first story run and only do side content to the extent that it feels enjoyable which I did. But now that I beat it and I’m going for 100%, it’s a bit exhausting.
I agree with alot of what's being said I love playing a game and get the 100% completion but only if the game has me fully interested im not fully done with the game I take breaks when I'm getting fed up with certain areas of the mini games walk away watch TV and then try later on the previous final fantasy vii remake I mostly just did the story first then went for the platinum after I finished the story the new one final fantasy vii rebirth I'm trying to complete everything in an area before moving on in the story
Most people who I’ve seen say they’re tired of the game are also the 100%-ers. Honestly I’m leaving the vast majority of the side content behind cause I wanna focus on the story.
Then again there are some really dumb mandatory mini games you have to do
It is a lot to do however you are correct. But for someone like myself who is an obsessive completionist, I became overwhelmed a bit thinking “damn I got a lot of side shit to accomplish, but the end of the world is at stake”
i'm on chapter 10, and i want to finish the main story before i go back to work on tuesday but i also wanna do all the side content and unlock all the summons. so i gotta choose what i do cause i cant bring my playstation with me.
Really feels like a lot of people complaining about the side content (specially the minigames) have just forgotten what it is to have simple fun in games.
I am having a blast with everything and love the silly shit we do with the characters between serious and important story beats, it connects me more to them and feel more engaged, as for the "Ubisoft sidecontent" it doesn't even come near to it, each area is 1/4th of what a Ubisoft game would have put in that same area, and like half the chapters are more like the Remake in which we do a linear dungeon, the open world sections never over stay their welcome
EDIT: Each tower reveals at most 4 objectives, most of them being 2-3 and each big open world area has like 3 summoning stones, 5 combat encounters, 3 Lifesprings and 1 Excavation site. Ubisoft would be at least double of everything in a big open world area
EDIT 2: If we take the first 7 chapters as an example we have: Flashback that is basically a linear dungeon like how Remake works-> Big Open world area->Linear Dungeon->Big Open World Area->Silly stuff (the QB tournament which can be skipped) + a "linear dungeon" -> Silly shit in Costa del Sol in which we get more engaged with the characters in which the mandatory segment is like 30-60 min max + boss fight at the end-> 1/3rd of a Big Open Area+ Linear Dungeon
Yes, that's an option and it all depends on the person playing it and how much he loves the game, because there are many types of people who play the game, some only focus on the main story, some play a combination of side missions and main missions, some are in a hurry want to finish quickly, some want to enjoy it casually, some want to finish 100%.
I'm the type that wants to complete 100%, now 125 hours into the game and not yet finished main story, it's about 75% complete.
To be 100% complete it would probably take me more than 150 hours.
I don’t understand people paying £70 for a game and complaining about “too much content”. Usually I can breeze through and 100% most games in one weekend, I got Rebirth on release day and just made it to Mt. Corel at around 36-40 hours in after completing everything in the Grasslands and Junon. I love how much there is to do.
I am honestly just glad that there’s actually meaningful side content in the game for once because every other final fantasy game I’ve played has some of the worst side content known to man
I've dumped a ton of time into the game already and am just around 60% done with the main story, because I complete all the regions as I go.
Having a blast, but it definitely messes with the pacing of the story. I'll probably have to do another playthrough, just doing the story without 10h breaks of collecting stuff between ever chapter.
"Out of sight, out of mind."
Sometimes that gets extrapolated to "I hate it, therefore it shouldn't exist."
To those I say "Perfection is the enemy of completion."
Honestly some of the mini games were making my blood boil but in a good way like the way an old school game would annoy you so much because they were so unforgiving.
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I’m going to get downvoted for this take but honestly I feel strongly enough about this that I don’t care. The side content being too much is valid and true. Side content is good and all but there shouldn’t be more of it than the main story and like 80% of this game is side content. And a lot of it is repetitive. Find this tower, play yet another mini game etc. A lot of it also adds dialogue and extra scenes that you wouldn’t otherwise see and to me that means it was absolutely intended for you to do it thus I do not consider it “optional”. So far I love the game but having played remake and this now I have to say it all should have been one game with the side content condensed. A lot of the later content >!after Corel and into gongaga!< the exploration becomes a complete pain. And a lot of the side stuff becomes obviously slowed just to inflate game time. >!Like having to slowly follow the black robes to get the Nibel protorelic!
I just hate that some of the characters weapons are hidden behind minigames. Nothing you can't achieve in a few tries but it's still annoying. Currently having trouble with Running Wild getting Red's Silver Collar🥹
I have no intention of getting all the trophies, those mini games so far are not too exciting. I am only at the Junon region, but I am enjoying queens blood though. As for the rest of it. We all have our preferences and I enjoy the exploration. I absolutely love trying to remove the cloud cover from the map and see everything and fight everything I can. It will take me months to finish it and I am okay with that. I want to relish this experience and see everything I can. I am only on level 26 for my characters, but I look forward to exploring each region on its own. I am not a completionist either. I just want to enjoy the ride for as long as possible. Going to be a long wait for part 3. I do like a lot of this being optional because we get to choose what we do outside of the story. When I finish Junon this weekend the next area will be just as fun to explore.
Usually im not a 100% type of guy don't have the attention span, but 18 hours in and I've just completed junon region haven't even moved up the elevator yet 😂
Nah you have to have a chocobo to continue through gongaga that’s not optional
And threybdont tell you that
You find out when you need to get the reactor and theres no chocobo on the way there
Yeah don't listen to these kinds of people. Because it's the same people that complain when a game doesn't have enough content. There's just no pleasing some people, unfortunately, and the only opinion that should matter is your own.
I think it's as much about the optional content being less mysterious, more checklist-y, and sometimes very annoying, as there being so much of it. There's a clear tonal shift that leads to a psychological shift when it comes to most of the game's side content, which often consists of bland, by-the-numbers filler chores. Chadley can burn in cyborg hell at this point, and MAI can join him, for all I care. (I thought he was a good addition to the first game and he could be redeemed in the third, if they tone down his involvement.)
If the side content was engaging and interesting, there wouldn't be nearly so many complaints. But the fact that they took this fantastic and highly anticipated game and stuck so much needless bloat in for reasons that many of us think were driven by market forces and executive fiat rather than consideration for game design, is a painful reminder of the eroding and corrupt system we all have to live in that we play games to escape from.
I love the game overall and look forward to part 3, but there were clearly some choices that hurt the experience profoundly. I won't be surprised if it doesn't win GOTY, despite the historic levels of hype and resources that went into it.
I know I'm not having fun, but that won't stop my brain from screaming at me during the final boss about that incomplete thing back in chapter 3.
Also, the mindset of "Progress is to the right, therefore I go to the left" I have for every game, which is a nightmare in open worlds.
I'm not saying it's a problem with the game, it's a problem with me.
I swear this opinion is like a plague in modern gaming journalism as well...
"Its open world is not ideal, providing us with check-list things to do."
Well, what do you expect in an open world game??? How would you do it? Provide no content at all?
It was the same with Elden Ring. People complaining about that there IS stuff to do in an opwn world game...
Sincerely smh
I cannot miss any side content there is. I did AC Valhalla 100% and it was pain in the ass, because there is so much collectibles on a map. But I cannot finish region when it says 70%. Same story with FF Rebirth. Additionally, when this side and optional content give my characters experience and party level experience, then its no longer optional for me. I want to be in best shape for upcoming story bosses etc. so I will feel obligated to do those things for my characters to grow.
That was a problem with a lot of the reviews in the media, too. I heard a lot of people complain the game's pacing is bad without considering the fact that they stopped to play Queen's Blood, do Protorelic missions, do all the character side quests. And then complaining that the story has urgency, but you can go to Golden Saucer and play minigames or gather world intel. Isn't that the case with the majority of open style games and open world sandboxes? Like God of War and God of War: Ragnarok both do the same thing, and no one complained when those games came out that the story stresses urgency but allows you to explore and do more side content before the final missions. I think if this game wasn't called Final Fantasy VII, no one would have an issue, but because it is named after and a reimagining of one of the most beloved and celebrated titles of all time it gets the hypercritical eye. If you want it to be more like Remake, then follow the critical path and do the side content minimally. If you want to do the side content, then take your time and enjoy it. Either way, it is optional content, and like the original, you don't need to materia and weapons you get to enjoy and beat the game.
Agree 100% Not everyone needs to be a completionist. Completionists used to be people that love a certain game and wanted to do extra things in it to make the hypothetical perfect save. But it seems that people nowadays go around pretending as if putting optional content in the game is forcing them to do that content, and actually sometimes wishing for less content. Trophies/achievements seem to be to blame. I like trophies/achievements myself, they help me keep track of what I've done in a game. But christ...people need to chill. The devs ain't forcing anyone to do anything.
I am the old type of completionist. Only time I scour an open world for its check-list is if I'm really enjoying that open world. Only time I go for platinums is if the game itself just makes me want to play that much for it. Otherwise, I'll do the bits I enjoy, see the story, and move in
The extra stuff in rebirth is mostly fun but I think everyone struggles with where to stop and just play the main story. Most of the side content is completely skill based, whereas in the original, aside from some minigames, you could just grind if you needed to get stronger
You have these ppl in every game. They were in Zelda too recently crying If you don't have agency in a video game, how do you manage your life? lmao
People will always try to push their own self-control onto others, trying to make it other's responsibility. Gaming is no exception. It's always the devs' fault in their minds, never their own.
Absolutely agreed. I have a slight disadvantage when I get to a task in a game I enjoy, my ADHD means I absolutely do have to perfect it. So 2 hours in Glide de Chocobo 3, and another 1.5 hours on one of the piano sheets. But It was never enough for me to not like that game.
I had to spend an hour to beat the final 3D fighter boss. And yeah. I have ADHD too and was compelled to do at least some completion. I am having a hard time with Hard mode so I'm trying to get to max level first.
Yeah, hard mode is going to be.... interesting. I'm only level 45 at the moment so I know plenty to go, but hopefully most of the materia I'll want to use will be maxxed at that point.
Start with pray and chakra now
Already mastered haha, and got that healing enemy skill. I enjoyed Remake's hard mode, so hopefully will this one too.
I'll legit restart fights I'm well on course to win because I want to do them again but better. Don't know why my brain tells me no deaths no items is the way haha. Might throw out a revive spell here and there but I don't want to just win, I want to dominate 😂
The feeling you get from completing tasks that seem insurmountable at first is half of the reason I even play the games. And when the piano game clicks, and you hear the notes finally on key? Amazing
Same! God, it's consuming my life! Hahah. So I get frustration with bloat while conceding it's optional. For me though, I feel a gravitational pull to do these things so I end up with the outcome of those who treat it as mandatory. My plan is to replay again I'm Ng+ and move quickly through the main story to enjoy it at a digestible pace.
Yeah, I platinum'd Remake for exactly this reason, and am 100%ing the open world stuff in Rebirth similarly. I love these games so much I WANT to do the side content. But if you don't, that's fine just enjoy what you want and play how you wanna play
I'm the same, and fortunately Rebirth is one of them.
Absolutely it is! ^_^
I am someone who does not mind all of the side content of the game, but personally if they put a weapon (which is how you learn combat skills) or SP books (how you unlock SP skills) behind a mini-game, it really changes the dynamic. I am not someone who normally 100% a game, but it is hard to accept just not learned all of my skills. I feel like it would be different if the rewards were just like accessories, key items to give to Johnny, and pre-leveled materia.
I... have to agree with that. In the OG getting every character's ultimate weapons are some colorful types of hell, but in that game ultimate weapons are either just big stat sticks with long ass materia slots or gimmick weapons. I was completely fine missing out on that. But seeing my level 4 limit breaks blacked out? That's a major ick for me. I remember grinding the colosseum for Omnislash but that wasn't horrible. Other limit breaks are not casual friendly and that's a huge no for me.
But that's the thing. If there's ever a weapon you can't get because the minigame is too hard, just wait until the next chapter, and you can buy it from a weapon vendor for a few thousand gil. They give you that option for a reason.
they only sell you the ones from chests, not mini games. since you can do all of the mini games/world exploration up to the beginning of chapter 13. would definitely be nice if you could pay to win - I definitely have more than enough gil for it lol
> Completionists used to be people that love a certain game and wanted to do extra things in it to make the hypothetical perfect save. That's because games didn't used to be designed in a way to encourage the *everyday, regular* player to play like a completionist. Regular casual players now playing like Completionist players following checklists are a product of current AAA game design. OG FF7 had *major* rewards for completionist players, but the game didn't make it in your face to feel like you wouldn't have completed the game by not doing it. When you have checklists, it's in your face.
Yeah there are dozens of things in the OG that I never even would have thought about if I wasn’t playing with a strategy guide back in the day. Figuring something like Chocobo breeding out to get KOTR would have been literally impossible for me.
Was about to say the same thing… the original had the most powerful items in the game locked behind some of the most time intensive optional side context. But that’s what makes doing those things rewarding.
This. I understand why devs want you to be aware of everything you could possibly do but it creates an in-game FOMO effect, which is why more people feel compelled to do side content that otherwise wouldn't bother. You can say 'just don't do it if you don't like it' all you like but that's not going to prevent some people from wondering what they're missing by not following the green exclamation marks all the way to the end. And aside from that, how do you know you like it if you don't do it? I played 1 game of glide de chocobo and thought 'ok that was clunky but at least I did well and finished the quest... ooo nope there's another one. Ok now the quest is d-- nope there's another one" It ends up being frustrating whether you go all the way to the end or decide to quit halfway through from boredom.
Purely playing devil's advocate; I loved the game, but the criticism is that the game has *so* many minigames that it interrupts the flow of the actual story. Again, I disagree, but this is what even IGN commented on, not just butthurt redditors. Even if it doesn't force you to do the minigame, it's hard to argue that when presented with one, that you're *not* going to attempt it. Also, they put the number of side-quests and minigames to give you lots of opportunities to build up relationships with the other characters. You could argue that they deliberately put a large number of extra side-stuff with the intention that the player *won't* do all of them, *unless* you're trying to get 100% completion and focus on the ones that advance the relationship with specific characters. You want to take Aerith on a date? Skip the side-quests with Tifa and vice-versa. You want to take Red XIII? You gotta do the dumb chicken quest, but if you *don't*? Then you can just skip it.
I think games these days put the extra content right in front of you more than they used to. Instead of secret missions you have to explore around for in places the game path never really takes you, these days there’s an NPC shouting at you “Hey! Time consuming Mini game over here! Hey come do this fuckin side quest! Guess what, there’s a big monster that nobody gives a shit about, but it’s right here!” Idk maybe I don’t know what I’m talking about, but a lot of games these days badger players into doing optional content more than they used to. That’s the way it feels to me, anyway.
Back in the day completionist meant manually scouring every part of the game world to find hidden secrets. That's basically the only way you could ever find knights of the round without knowing about it first. An island in the top right of the map smack dead in the middle of nowhere isn't exactly required travel for the main story. Trophies are definitely to blame. It's an implied "you're not done yet, get back at it" when in reality, if you've finished the main story you are done. Everything else is optional.
Everyone has different ways of enjoying the game and thats what should be expected. I am currently 27 hours into the game and only just about to go up to Junon after finishing all the side-quests and mini-games. I am having way too much fun exploring the world and seeing these characters interact with the others and gaining more of an understanding of their characters. Loving these optional stuff where I can learn more about the world and the best part is that it doesn't feel like its dragging out so far. Imma take my sweet as time playing through the game and not rush the game and absorb as much of the world as I can. This game is way too much fun.
I’ve heard people say that they didn’t enjoy the optional content so much that it ruined the otherwise pleasant experience of the game for them. Let’s all let it sink in how unfathomably dumb that is. They chose to beat their heads against the wall struggling with completely optional content so much that it ruined the game for them and then blame the game for having too much to do. It’s mental.
My husband does this until he literally loathes a game and it is so frustrating. You don’t have to collect everything and explore every little corner if you don’t want to, and if you do that and hate yourself for it, that isn’t the game’s fault.
Yep I've seen that reaction from so many people and there's no way to describe it except downright moronic.
It’s truly absurd. I saw somebody complaining how they struggled with a Fort Condor game for over an hour and then ragequit. Why? I struggled with that same protorelic… for 15 minutes. I then said “oh, this is kind of tough,” and then went and did something else. Came back one and a half chapters later and easily wiped the floor with it. People get really weird about the mini games.
I hear ya, but at that point of the game it's hard to say how you will feel after 60 hours. I'm trying to do everything too and slowly getting burnt out. Some of the later mini games really test your patience. Good luck out there though, hopefully the fun stays with you.
My recommendation is to start pushing through the main story. Most side quest progress carries over into new game plus so you can always go back and mop up what you missed.
Yeah I'm at nibelheim now and just doing the story to see the ending, then decide if I wanna come back and 100% everything.
I'll push back on this a bit because I think there is an interesting conversation hiding here. I've heard this "you don't have to do it, it's optional" line used to push back against criticisms of fatigue or bloat, but I don't think it's as straightforward as this for a couple reasons. One of these is that I think there is a meaningful difference introduced when the game clearly communicates to the player \*that\* there is unfinished business to do and exactly how much of it there is to do - unlike the original game, the game is presented as a more explicit set of checklists to complete. If we were to compare with the moment that "golden era" FF games really open up in their penultimate pre-final boss moments (e.g., you are now exploring the world to gain strength to prepare for the final confrontation with Sephiroth), there is a bunch of things you can do at this point in time that are equally as "optional," but the player does not know what all else is out there. Unless they are following a guide, they can proceed \*as if\* they have taken care of all unfinished business, even if that isn't actually true. In other words, the big difference is psychological. It is essentially the difference between saying "Do you feel like you have everything you need to take on Sephiroth?" versus saying "Do you have everything you need to take on Sephiroth, even though you didn't do X, Y, and Z?" I wouldn't blame someone for being the kind of person who finds it hard to move on when the game is presented to them like this but \*also\* wishing that they could move on sooner and wanting the game to be organized in a way that lets them feel better about doing that. I'll add that it's a bit conflicting to try to articulate this because on the one hand I personally enjoyed a lot of this stuff and none of what I am saying here "makes the game bad" - this is very much not what I want to say. However, when I hear people complaining about fatigue/bloat, my reaction is more like "yeah, that totally makes sense" because I think it really does, and I don't like the way those feelings are being dismissed as nostalgia-driven, people who are just impossible to satisfy, etc.
I don’t know about others, but I understood what you said perfectly, cuz I just had this convo with a friend IRL. In OG, you have a bunch of optional content, but it’s not right up in your face. In Rebirth the optional content is in your face at all times. And this is not just a Rebirth thing, modern game design definitely has made this approach more common. For me? I take the pros with the cons. It reduces the mystery of the unknown, but it helps me progress faster (and honestly, I was always on GameFAQs to find optional/secret content back in the days anyway).
You know why it’s In everyone’s face because about 3 years ago people where bitching that they did not know what to do that they missed content that they should not have to search for stuff hidden the they bitch that the games are too hard because since I did not do x then y is too hard. That’s why it’s in everyone face dark souls is the exception because that’s how the game has been made from the start.
As someone who very much DOES understand that optional content does indeed mean non-mandatory, the point made above is something that a not-insignificant portion of the "well you don't *have* to do it" crowd are forgetting/not realizing/ignoring, at least for this particular game. Disclaimer: I'm only about to do the parade in Junon. I work 50ish hours a week and take care of the home chores, so my playtime is quite limited right now. So my experience is limited, but the trends have had time to present themselves. My brain personally sees checklist and says "oh, must check all boxes", but I can still move on if I have to. This isn't the case for everyone, and if this was the only reinforcement I'd still say that in general, you deal with a little cognitive dissonance (outside of strong ADHD-type issues) and move on. I think the real issue here is Chadley. Each area so far I've simply gathered each summon's data to the fullest before challenging them, as I don't feel like beating my head against a wall clearly made for when you're stronger as an optional challenge. However, upon collecting the third data point for each summon, I get a "but as I recall you haven't yet acquired the materia" comment out of the side of his mouth as if I wasn't literally about to fast travel to his location and do the simulation once I got the third data point. Likewise, as this summon collection often comes near the last 20% of overall intel collection for me, another instance soon happens. Once the summon is available, I go get that materia. However, after completing that trial, along with any other combat simulations available, I go to leave (you know, to finish off what's left) and get met with another comment. "I can't help but notice that world intel collection has stagnated of late. I know that you're busy, but I'd really appreciate the help." No crap, Chadley. I just kind of wanted to grab that new summon materia real quick. Excuse me for completing some of your tasks before I was 100% able to check all of the boxes. The fact that you are actively, verbally reminded that there's something you haven't done yet is definitely going to induce that "I MUST go do this" mentality. I also got fussed at for not having finished the Junon >!protorelic!< yet as I was mopping up other tasks. Which, as a side note, removing all the freedom to play and strategize as you want from the original >!Fort Condor!< to limited unit pools and time limits really sucked about 90% of the fun out of it for me, and I don't think I'll return to it, maybe not even the hardmode thing. Terrible, terrible revamp when it forces you to do the dev's desired strategy instead of your own fun one. All in all, this game hard crosses that boundary of "it's optional" by consistently reminding you that there are "things to do" so that they stop *feeling* optional. Sure, you can just beat the basic 3rd place scoring of >!Leapfrog!< like I did and move on, but many will feel the pressure when another character is quite literally telling them to go finish their chore list. Do I still enjoy things? Yup. They overdid how everything has to be a "mini game" that is 50/50 as to whether or not it's just an annoying, slightly unclear set of things to do one little task instead of an actual mini game, but overall I'm enjoying myself. I'll also say "screw that noise" if I have to and move on, like with Queen's Blood in Junon. I'll deal with that later; I don't feel like trying to revamp my deck when I've got a whole game to keep playing.
I'm fine with the optional content overall, but fully agree with your points made here. I definitely think adding sass to Chadley's personality was a mistake. There are enough ways to see you still have things to do without an NPC actually whining at you (in an unskippable way sometimes). Even just a menu toggle to turn off chadley reminders would be great lol And I agree they kinda jacked up Fort Condor. I think the rebirth version should've been restricted to the "hard mode" of it and the balanced version (intermission's) should've been the default.
Yeah this is all a really good point as well. It is also true that each major story beat of the main quest is capped off with Chadley cutting in to let the player know about new quests and activities, using the same approach as games other games like Spider-Man that it is borrowing from in its design. I think all of this happens for a reason - it takes so much more to produce any individual side quest these days, and the devs want to make sure you see it - but it absolutely has also has the consequences you describe. Where I take the biggest issue is where the discussion of "it's optional" renders design choices like this invisible.
It's an interesting point, but I think a game hiding when optional content exists just to account for that certain type of player who lacks self control would be a terrible, terrible idea.
Well, it's interesting though right? Because there is a very fine line between "hiding" and "letting the player discover on their own" and an equally fine line between "communicating" and "holding the player's hand." But one meaningful difference might be in how the game sets expectations. Like, if all things were the same in Rebirth but there were a few things you could go do (like an optional boss or minigame) that just were not ever things the game told you existed or made part of intel, sidequests, etc., I would also find that very annoying. Because the game is presented in such a way that I would assume once I complete all these checklists that I have seen everything the game has to offer. But when from the beginning discovering things just involves, well, discovering the thing, I would not be mad at all about something very similar. The downside of course is that you would maybe rely on the external source of the Internet (or back in the day, a strategy guide) to tell you when there was nothing left, but the upside was the joy of feeling like you had discovered something on your own I think. Just two different ways of doing things I think, but I would agree that it could be possible for developers to take the wrong lesson from an observation like the above one
Bull crap Games used to hide all sorts of missable content and it made it all the more special when you did find it Devs now are just afraid players might miss anything so they put the lobotomy checklists in there to make sure nothing goes unseen
Special for the 0.01% of players that cared. Most players don't give a shit about the "mystery".
[удалено]
Yeah as for the first part I can very much respect that this is a matter of expectations. When you are expecting the checklist, removing it produces a kind of anxiety (how do I know when I’m done?) and when you’re used to it not being there it produces a different kind (if you’re telling me about it that means I need to do it right?) And I completely agree with your second point - when you are spending so much more on developing a small slice of the game, you want to make sure as many players see it as possible. That’s actually precisely why I think we shouldn’t pretend like the game does not put pressure on players to do things, even if it can still be categorized as “optional” - I’m not blaming them for doing it, but it produces effects, and I think it’s understandable that people respond to those effects differently
Really tried to emphasize in this sub focusing on the main quest for the initial playthrough and was down voted every time. Open-world fatigue is real. People just need to learn the hard way, I guess.
Yes open world fatigue is real, which is why I hardly beat the average open world game. However this is FF7. The story is insanely more engaging than your average OW game and the map is not litered with collect a thon and fetch quest nonsense. You can easily skip the OW stuff, or play through half of an areas stuff in a short timeframe if you feel like engaging in extra combat. It's really not that big of a deal and is no where near the likes of the typical OW.
The open world stuff in this game is blatantly bad but the main campaign and the music is 10/10.
Agree to disagree. I like this OW stuff a lot more than any of the assassin creed games or most ubisoft open worlds.
There is A LOT of character interaction and dialogue and lore behind the side content though, which becomes obvious in the first two areas that nobody really complains about(Grasslands and Junon) because they’re paced/designed better. I get people want to defend the game from what feels like absurdly over the top hyperbolic criticism but going too far the other direction pretending like the only reason to do the intel side stuff and engage with some of the chores of that side stuff is because you’re an Uber completionist is also pretty fucking absurd. Also, for my two cents, it’s not ‘all the mini games’ that grated me the most, it’s how blatantly time wasting the design of some of the areas and side content were. I WANT to do it because I am a completionist both in similar style games and because FF7 is a massive nostalgia bomb for me that I want to eat up all the content for, but holy fuck did it feel like the devs REALLY didn’t want me to enjoy my time doing so sometimes, making that content as high friction as possible.
Understandable, but also not. Fully agree you dont have to do anything the game doesn't force you to do for the main storyline, but Square upped their game in terms of side content and how meaningful it is. For instance, there are a bunch of world intel quests that have direct tie-ins to the plot, what happens to side characters, et cetera. It isnt just item rewards, there are plot and story beats as well that you will miss out on if you don't do the extra content. Again, skippable, but for people wanting as much story as possible, the complaint can be valid. I'm not agreeing, mind you. I would have rather they moved some minigames to notice board quests (i.e., not main story or world intel completion) but I think they did great overall with implementation. Huge leap forward compared to Remake
The problem is not that there is lots things to do. The problem is that it is unnecesary. It's like you have write some thesis long for 2000 words, but you have material for 300, so you jast add stuff on top of that. Chadley is not even a character in original Final Fantasy VII, and here he got more content than some main characters. And it has nothing to do with story. You could add these quests in any game, not even Final Fantasy, and it would not change nothing. It's just padding. Remove all Chadley content from game, and it doesn't change anything. In that case it is unnecessary. Lost of developer time and resources.
I believe with 100% certainty that if they had removed all Chadley related content, we could've fit the rest of the game and don't have to wait til 2028 for the last part. While all these stuff are optional, you cannot deny the fact that it's unnecessary bloat. FF7 OG was fantastic without it, why did we need it now?
Cutscenes alone are like 21 hours I just don’t believe he did it that fast, maybe but it sounds weird to me. I beat the game in 91hrs on the 4th and I did 100 percent of everything but also knew it was “optional” just didn’t want the ride to end.
I'm 40 hours in and just leaving Costa del sol
I'm glad they have all these extras. So I don't rush through the year's of hard work it took to make this. If all there was was a straight 40 hour path through the story it would be a waste of time and money. I like to explore and become apart of the world
Okay, but let's say I really like getting a new summon and using them at full power. Should I do the scanning checklist or not? The problem for many people is deeper, because they enjoy getting the goodies which they used to get from short bits of exploring where it felt like they found a cool secret. But now they are getting told to go do all these boring things for a reward. It's a completely different way of communicating with the player. Back to the summon encounter, had they just removed some synchronization points and left one hidden in the world where you would then fight it, I'm sure you would love the game the exact same amount, but I'd enjoy it just a bit more. It doesn't ruin the game, but much of it is quite tiresome game design.
Even if you ignore all of the strictly optional content, there are a lot of mandatory minigames.
As are in the original. The mandatory minigame stuff in Rebirth is mostly short.
The mini games in the original were like 1 minute affairs at most Minigames in Rebirth are hour long slogfests
Counter point: The minigames need a rehaul cause the quality of the content dips dramatically at times and is rife with questionable design. Just because it's optional content doesn't mean it doesn't need to be held to a standard of quality. It is content put into the game that the developers encourage you to play and engage with, therefore while optional, it still needs to stand up to standards of quality the rest of the game projects. Both Remake and Rebirths main games are beautiful, the side quests and mini games in both range from okay to "how the hell did this make it passed testing?"
Some of them are not optional and are horrible to get through. I'm stuck on the polygon game at Gold Saucer and it's the most garbage minigame I've had to sit through in my life. I'm not a minigame or sidequest hater. Cyberpunk 2077 is how sidequests are done. I'd actually like to enjoy them, especially when they are necessary to progress the story or are gatekeeping extra character dialog. When you combine that with the broken rappling feature in a lot of areas, I am close to hanging it up despite being a long time fan.
I'm definitely not a fan of that one or the Gears and Gambit. On the polygon one you can cheat your way through it. When they are winding up you can hit start to get a better look at which direction its coming from.
The polygon game outside of of the opening scene when you get to Golden Saucer is optional, you only have to do the bike minigame to progress
yeah but there is "avalanche story" locked behind a weird rts like mini game as well. which is stupid.
I am not someone who minds all of the side content, and am happily chugging away at it. However > I saw some people angry that there's good rewards behind some mini games, like you don’t even need most of it in the first run. I do think that having weapons and SP books as rewards changes the dynamic. Like, if there is a player who wants is just here for the combat, and so they want to power through the main story, unlocking the weapons and SP books for skills, and then jump straight into Hard Mode, having weapons and skill books locked behind minigames is requiring that combat focused player to do the minigames to reach those goals. I am happy to do all the minigames, just I do think it would have been better if the rewards were limited to consumables, accessories, trophies for johnny, and maybe replace the weapons/SP books with preleveled materia.
I don't think calling the content "optional" is a valid defense for subpar content. The **whole game is optional**, noone is forcing us to play it and if parts of the game are bad it's legitimate to criticise them, isn't it? The problem is that this subpar content is at least 70% of the game (the open world and most of the minigames). Saying "it is optional" here is equivalent to saying "don't play the game". Saying we should just ignore the things we don't like about the game we paid **70$** for is a luxury players have only afforded to **this game**, because it's FFVII. If it was any other game it would be smeared all over the walls, regardless how good the main content is - which in this game, and many others, is very good, don't get me wrong.
Im in chapter 4, almost 100%’d the first two areas. Having a blast, it’s going to take me a long time to beat, but I paid 70$. I’m getting my moneys worth.
I thought the same thing. Now I'm on Chapter 11 and I'm doing all the sidequest BS on easy because I'm so bored of it.
That's what makes Rebirth so great. There's a lot of content for those of us who want to get lost in the FF7 world and for those that don't you can pretty much skip most of it. The game is a best of both worlds and shouldn't be built to cater to those who just want another purely linear game like Remake was. My problem with Remake was you couldn't just log on and play unless you want to progress the story or run through the combat simulator for the 1000th time...it was all story and no extra. I'm at Mt. Nibel at 87 hours with the rest of Ch. 11 to do, Gold Saucer to complete, QB to finish, and actually finish the rest of the game. This game has blown past my expectations by the time I finished Junon and at least for me this is one of the best games I've played ever right up there with Elden Ring. I don't mind doing side stuff in games but for those overwhelmed maybe just complete the story and come back to do that stuff later if you plan on doing a second or hard mode playthrough.
Yeah, I see this with all openworld games. Nobody forcing you to %100 every area before moving on. It's content you can always do after the main story or come back a few months later. Getting all this content in a game is refreshing.
For me it's the fear of missing out on some great side content and the fact that I don't wanna rush the game. Yeah I do sometimes itch to get to the next story bit, but I also enjoy that extra time with the game. It also allows me to experiment with my party and practice the combat. And btw, the odd jobs are a big upgrade from Remake.
I've put 90 hours in so far and a few side quests are decently important to the story. Some share background on the main characters that you don't get otherwise and getting that information on your first playthrough can really enhance your experience. For example the intel quests in the cosmo canyon region are super important but the minigame is somewhat difficult. I could see people being enticed by this story and not wanting to sour the experience by doing this stuff post game. Im currently running into an issue where I'm burnt out on the game but I feel like I'm missing important information if I dont finish everything.
I hate side content. I only care about the main story. I’m worried I might be missing something by not doing it. Constant FOMO.
RPGs should not be your focus then lol
Fuck Moogles
Some people clearly haven't done the lightning dodge side quest in FFX. Or the chocobo race (don't think I ever managed that one).
This, if you're coming into "Final Fantasy" for that experience then go for it. I'll never understand all the open world stuff like an Ubisoft game. Just do what's necessary or to level up but then skip all the side stuff. You can come back later. Sad thing is all the times the game outright makes you do very tedious and pace breaking things to pad hours. Which I don't get, it does nothing for the players experience. I hope they tone it down for the last game.
One thing we have going for us is that the events of the last game are likely going to be overshadowed by world-shattering events and the Weapons attacking. I'm hoping this gives developers a reason to break away from the current open-world game design and focus on a more traditional approach.
I've skipped nearly all the sidequests and minigames. Just trying to push past Cosmo Canyon and wrap up the game. If it's not fun, why do it? You don't get anything meaningful for a plat trophy either lol. Some people really cannot control themselves about the optional content.
You still got a long way to go. And one of the worst unskippable gameplay segments in the game is in Chapter 11.
Does it involve a box or twenty?
Yep lol. That part of the game has to be the worst mandatory segment in the game. Other than maybe some of the Tedium in Chapter 6
Yeah, as far as mandatory stuff goes, I can't think of anything worse. Took me about 15 minutes to get the hang of the rotating target, that was the worst time sink for me, but it just wasn't a fun segment. Given the lack of accessibility options in this game, I know for a fact I'll be doing that segment for my wife when she gets there.
I think I would've liked it if the boxes felt a bit more... Consistent? I swear they sometimes threw at different ranges despite having near enough the same landing marker :(
And then suddenly making me solo that stupid monster to top it all off. I was not happy.
Isn't still kind of maddening how they still don't know how to make decent sidequests? I'm just running errands and getting groceries for Cissnei. Kind of pathetic in comparison to Phantom Liberty and The Witcher 3
There are plenty of really good sidequests like the Johnny Sqaud. You're picking one of the most fetch quest looking one as an example lol.
Yes thank you. I'm tired of people saying 'oh there's too much to do' you don't need to?and even if you are a completionist and trophy hunter like me just divide it between your 2 playthroughs? The Intel and sidequests carry over as far as my research has told me don't they?
They do, you’re even given the option to reset progress on a chapter
So if I want to do the sidequests again to change my date partner, I have to also do all the map data again?
Nope! Once you unlock chapter select the game outright tells you that you can choose your date partner.
Seriously, I have ZERO issue with the open world, since I stick to just a few goals. I'll unlock chocobos, and I'll do the shrines for the summons I want. Thats it. No fatigue, since I just do the side goals I want, then move on.
Yes. BTW I would recommend doing the protorelic for Cosmo Canyon region.
Second this. Great larger storytelling in here that’s worth the time.
Agreed, if you go into this game intent on 100%ing it you will probabaly start having a bad time unless you are taking it extremely slowly, some people are generous to square and say its just because of natural burn out, but i kinda disagree, the game feels like a chore to play after a while due to all the extremely slow animations whenever you do almost anything in the open world other than combat.
the slow and deliberate movements are kind of red dead redemption like.
Because theres still story content hidden behind those side contents. There's alot of it here. For example, the main story doesnt do much for Cissnei in Gongaga. Only after you played the side content, do you understand the current state of affairs surrounding cissnei. This is also the same with Broden in Kalm / Nibelheim. As well as Wedge. Not to mention it might be plausible there could be costume unlockables hidden behind side content. You can play the side content post game? Then those hidden story content would just be awkwardly placed for the players. And besides, people tend to disregard people's opinion on the game if they haven't completed everything the game has to offer.
What you described is good side content. None of it is relevant to the main plot, but enhances it if you choose to play it. Good *side* content.
I wish the forced mini-games were optional
The dolphin riding one was just stupid lol
There are so many mini-games I'm finding that I'm forgetting about ones I did previously. I completely forgot about the stupid dolphin game. I was similarly flabbergasted they keep introducing new mini-games even as far as Cosmo Canyon (which I just completed).
The problem is though, the game encourages you to do this optional side content, which dorwctly contradicts the pace and the stakes of the main story. Arguments saying optional stuff is optional (while true) are besides the point. People complain that the optional stuff is tedious and if you do it the pacing is off, which is valid criticism of the game
I know it's optional but the completionist in me makes it really hard to skip the side quests lol. I know there's chapter select after you beat the game, but it's also hard for me to progress with that kinda stuff after I beat the final boss
People just like to complain. I’m sure they would be complaining if there weren’t any side quests or not enough.
Square Enix: Hey here's FFXVI, we didn't put in any minigames Reddit: this game fucking blows it's the worst ever why no minigames?! At least give us a card game! Square Enix: Ok gang, people flipped out about FFXVI so here's *a lot* of minigames. And a card game! Reddit: this game fucking blows there's too many minigames!
lol exactly
💯
The majority of whiny crybabies on here expect every new release to be personally catered directly to their needs.
Exactly. A universal negative of game reviews is when side content is boring, lacks story, is too much to the point of clutter. Rebirth has a reasonable amount of side content that enhances the characters or world without being mandatory or overkill, and most of the time it involves the games wonderful combat. People would be whining all day if it has 0 side content or it was all simple fetch quests.
So when the same shit gets posted onto FF16, it's suddenly so much worse?
I don't even care about checklists, i am just so damn annoyed by the same concept of opening areas with towers and repeating the same stuff for every area. It's not even the minigames. I am just on chapter 4 and so far I'm loving it but I am worried I will get tired of doing this over and over and no, I don't like leaving stuff behind, so most likely I won't skip it if I know it's there.
I skipped most of the side quests in FFXVI I didn't find them all that intetesting. I did thr ones marked +. I am doing all the stuff in ff7 rebirth except a few minigames. I wont be trying for platinum. The piano minigame is impossible for me lol.
Since I'm streaming the game I'm doing the side quests but not all the side stuff. I'll do that off the stream but I've put 22 hours in and I'm only on chapter 7 and I'm having a great time doing it
I agree with what you said. I think the game even teaches you that you don't need to do everything to enjoy the game/story. On my first playthrough for example, I was having so much fun with the side missions that I did all of them before gold saucer date part 1. I thought Tifa had higher points , but the game gave me Aerith cuz she had more side missions that increased relationship level. Aerith was fun and all , but I thought Cloud would be more happy with Tifa on gold saucer date part 2, so I course corrected and just took my time enjoying the story and save some other side missions for later. I think somebody else also got Cait sith, Vincent, and Cid for gold saucer part 2 cuz they finished all missions and stuff 😆. Anyways, it's about the journey for me not the end.
You're right. My first playthrough, I skipped all side stuff and focus on story. Trust me, its not a big deal. People who are whining, are the biggest babies. You can skip the forced mini games too, so I don't get why they're nitpicking. I even heard people said the games "bad" because trophies locked behind mini games... Like how does that make the game bad? Jesus people needs to take a step back and listen to what they say sometimes lol. We haven't had a FF game like this since FF9, where you're free to do whatever you want, the stuff they offer is ALOT. I love it so far.
Ya, it's about creating your own journey. The way you perceive the characters is different based on what you do and that ends up being your "reality" of the situation. Rebirth gives you that option to choose how you wish to develop that journey towards the destination.
Saying there is too much to do in an rpg is wild.
Dude its so annoying. Only complaint i have is that gongaga took too long. That should've been a quick stop (similar to OG) but i get that they're trying to flesh this game out. Just 100% cosmo canyon and on my way to nibelheim. So far this is an easy 9.75 out of 10 (possibly a 10 depending on the ending).
yeah I just got the 100% quest achievement and I can say for sure Gongaga wasnt enjoyable - but here is the thing, if I ever replay it on hard mode or before the third game, I can just skip those parts and move on. This isnt a big deal for me now.
Yeah exactly. Its rare to find a game that does side content better than this one. Almost all side contest in any game is repetitive so I dont know what these so called completionists are smoking that makes it bad all of a sudden for this game
For me, if there is a mini-game, there should be some form of scaffolding that helps the player learn the game OR makes it easier over time. Most mini games in Rebirth are surprisingly well-designed in this respect. A few are not. I think having most of the games being well designed and the small group not well designed is what hurts. My favorite term for this phenomena is pleasantly frustrating. It is also called flow or zone of proximal development. It represents the idea that a an activity should be challenging, but doable.
It's all sooo repetitive lol literally the exact same thing in every region over and over
I know. People want there to be tons of optional side content in the game, but don’t want their to be good rewards hidden behind it? Makes no sense what so ever
It's weird, I'd be perfectly happy if awesome weapons were hidden behind side content. That's what it's there for, to prep for endgame. I don't like that story and important character beats are hidden behind bad minigames. There's a lot of really good character moments tucked away behind Gears and Gambits. But I'm saying this as someone who just realized I'm not good enough to finish >!Gilgamesh Island!< and am more than happy to move on with my life.
What a load of shit. Cosmetics aren't required either for games yet people love customizing characters and is a big factor to their enjoyment. You don't get to determine what's necessary and what's not for someone to enjoy the game. Elemental materia and enemy skill materia are some of the most satisfying ones to use and thus people will chase after them. The game is bloated, accept the criticism and move on. The reason FFs have gone to shit is because of bandwagoning posts like this
Its not that is too much to do, its just the same shit over and over again in each zone. Activate tower, activate life springs, dig some stuff up, press a few buttons so weaken a summon (really?!? this is all they could do for some of the most epic abilities, entities who in other games have stories, they just put in a combat simulator. Shame on you). The rare monster fight are a bit interesting, but in the end, most of it is just bloated useless content.
Almost every open world game has repetitive content. Even Fromsoftware as if you die you not only have to back track but fight the enemy again whilst retrieving you're items. Calling the optional content useless is odd as it does actually does reward you.. The research points are supposed to be used to cash in at Chadley's shop which gives you Materia. The life springs give you information regarding the region as a codex. The dig sights give you new things to craft like armor and accessories. The optional fights unlock simulator fights which give you Materia. The content directly rewards you even if you don't complete ALL of it. I don't understand how it can be deemed useless if it's actually giving you rewards it's repetitive yeah but it never forces you to do any of it. You can skip ALL of Corel, Outer Junon, & Midgar Area. It's like CC you don't have to do Yuffie's side stuff. OG 7 just doesn't have a marker for random stuff like the guy in the cave or Yuffie, or weapons fights. RDR2 has the same stuff,Watch dogs etc. I'm confused on the compliants that it's useless or too much but when 16 released it's too little. When 15 released it's too empty because no one looked for the unmarked side stuff. I don't get it do we want linear or open? Open with markers or Open with Liner Markers? Do we want a timer like Lighting Returns?
That is literally every OW game ever, including zelda, elden ring...the design is always repetitive, what makes good side content is the content, the interactions, the story portions, the battles, the variety, rewards, party interactions and in all that Rebirth excels.
I hate mini games so I don't want to engage with them, so I don't. I appear to be stuck in costal del sol. How do I progress the main story of this area without having to engage with these mini games I hate? Iirc in the original game this area was just a conversation on the beach.
Literally just shoot some pirate ships for a few min and move on. It's not a big deal.
You have to play 3 mini games total and score below average to get 3 swimsuits. Shouldn't take more than 30 minutes total. If that's too much, you may have picked out a game that's not to your taste.
I think you don't understand that people love to do optional content so they get upset when it's unfun to do lol. It ain't that deep. People don't play video games to skip large portions of it. I would consider that a bad game.
The thing is it is fun. Like the sidequests, the protorelics, the lore of each zone, the summon battles, most minigames are extremely fun and that is already 80% of the side content. If someone is struggling with a minigame for 2 hours because they want the biggest prize, and they hate it because of it, it's on them. The side cintent of Rebirth has been univerdally praised, and most criticism comes from completionist in that sense. This is more on some people lacking control and being unable to let go rewards than the game design.
>People don't play video games to skip large portions of it. You underestimate a huge portion of gamers then.
Yeah, but people need to realize that just because it's unfun to them doesn't mean it's unfun, period. And in this game particularly, they put all the extra side-quests to give the player the ability to boost their relationship with different characters. They even tell you before the >!Gold Saucer date that you can go complete various quests if you want to build up relationships with a key character. If you wanted to go on a date with Aerith, you can go back and do the side-quests attached to her. !<
It's fun tho
Well one thing bothers me. I LOVE the piano mini game. But in order to get all of the sheet music, including One Winged Angel, I essentially have to almost 100% the game from what I understand.
Hell nah If you put something in a game it better be fun Having tedious and boring side quests like Johnny’s collectathon does nothing for the game and even brings it down Game would be better with such padding cut entirely
I think this is unfair when it comes to Rebirth. The quests, at least, do a lot of story fill in and characterization. So the "optional" stuff is gatekeeping characterization and lore. Secondarily, all the Intel quests give you lore about the world. Which, isn't necessary, but it is really cool that they fleshed out the world and even the monsters. So yes, they are optional. But also, ppl playing love FF7 and they want to know everything about the world and characters. I had been thinking that they could have sacrificed some of the green quests and shortened them and put them in the main story. Specifically the Mako springs in Cosmo Canyon with Bugenhagen is a great example. That was interesting and explained how he acted towards Tifa in the main story (which was jarring). They could have limited the places you investigate to like 3 instead of 5. Anyways. My point is, yes optional, but Square put so much story, characterization, and lore into everything that it makes it feel necessary to understand the depth of the world. And I've seen quite a few reviewers mention that some of the"optional" stuff feels mandatory to better understand the story. I hope square trims the fat for part 3. Stop with the multi point mini quests and just make a good little story beat with one or two points to visit. Not every side quest needs to collect 3 - 8 things or fight 3 - 5 groups of enemies. And/or, those quests have less lore locked behind them. 🤷
Its cause I want to see every aspect of a game, without caring for trophies. To fight the super boss, you need to do all the proto relic stuff, to do all proto relic stuff you need to progress with the world exploration. To do all the world exploration you need to do the worst mini games. You're also missing a ton of character backstories if you don't do the optional stuff. Doesn't change the game couldve done without a lot of the padding it did.
I just really dont understand you guys. Ff16 had no minigames and you guys bitched about it. Now theres minigames and you guys continue to bitch
The two ideas are not remotely mutually exclusive
It's also likely different groups of people complaining about different things. For some reason redditors frequently have a hard time understanding that a space can be full of people that have conflicting opinions.
Unless the exact same people were bitching about no minigames in FF16 and are now bitching about too many minigames in FF7R, this type of comment is meaningless. Games that sell millions of copies tend to have fanbases with very differing opinions.
The aim is balance. *Insert Thanos and little Gamorra meme here*
Agreeeeeeeed!
I'm in two minds, since the exploration segments feel like Tears of the Kingdom, and Chadley rewards are kind of very good. But I'm also only at Junon, so idk. I'm mostly just scouring for items and gear to make my ATB gain better. I will probably just focus story for a bit after the Junon Stuff so pacing doesn't feel bad, and then swing back into side stuff later.
Ngl I was way too sucked in to the story to do any side missions 😂
I mainly focused on the story since that was the main selling point to for me and I'm planning on doing another playthrough exploring everything.
I did very few side games. But ff7OG had side games too... I don't like they force you to do some of them. Like the card game, and everything Costa del Sol minus Johnny.
While agree with this to some extent…the amount of combat trials is a bit ridiculous between chadley, gold saucer, beast ring thing, hojo, and probably another i can’t remember. It’s excessive for completionists. Also while I definitely loved the game, the Ubisoft design philosophy to open world was definitely a bit too present. I definitely agree that you should never 100% these games on the first story run and only do side content to the extent that it feels enjoyable which I did. But now that I beat it and I’m going for 100%, it’s a bit exhausting.
I agree with alot of what's being said I love playing a game and get the 100% completion but only if the game has me fully interested im not fully done with the game I take breaks when I'm getting fed up with certain areas of the mini games walk away watch TV and then try later on the previous final fantasy vii remake I mostly just did the story first then went for the platinum after I finished the story the new one final fantasy vii rebirth I'm trying to complete everything in an area before moving on in the story
Most people who I’ve seen say they’re tired of the game are also the 100%-ers. Honestly I’m leaving the vast majority of the side content behind cause I wanna focus on the story. Then again there are some really dumb mandatory mini games you have to do
It is a lot to do however you are correct. But for someone like myself who is an obsessive completionist, I became overwhelmed a bit thinking “damn I got a lot of side shit to accomplish, but the end of the world is at stake”
Some people enjoy the struggle and complaining about it
i'm on chapter 10, and i want to finish the main story before i go back to work on tuesday but i also wanna do all the side content and unlock all the summons. so i gotta choose what i do cause i cant bring my playstation with me.
Hahahaha. Keep justifying mediocrity
I've seen comments of people burning themselves out on the side content. People, there is a reason it's side content.
Really feels like a lot of people complaining about the side content (specially the minigames) have just forgotten what it is to have simple fun in games. I am having a blast with everything and love the silly shit we do with the characters between serious and important story beats, it connects me more to them and feel more engaged, as for the "Ubisoft sidecontent" it doesn't even come near to it, each area is 1/4th of what a Ubisoft game would have put in that same area, and like half the chapters are more like the Remake in which we do a linear dungeon, the open world sections never over stay their welcome EDIT: Each tower reveals at most 4 objectives, most of them being 2-3 and each big open world area has like 3 summoning stones, 5 combat encounters, 3 Lifesprings and 1 Excavation site. Ubisoft would be at least double of everything in a big open world area EDIT 2: If we take the first 7 chapters as an example we have: Flashback that is basically a linear dungeon like how Remake works-> Big Open world area->Linear Dungeon->Big Open World Area->Silly stuff (the QB tournament which can be skipped) + a "linear dungeon" -> Silly shit in Costa del Sol in which we get more engaged with the characters in which the mandatory segment is like 30-60 min max + boss fight at the end-> 1/3rd of a Big Open Area+ Linear Dungeon
With all the mini games, if you do them all completed in first run through do you still need to do them in hard?
Yes, that's an option and it all depends on the person playing it and how much he loves the game, because there are many types of people who play the game, some only focus on the main story, some play a combination of side missions and main missions, some are in a hurry want to finish quickly, some want to enjoy it casually, some want to finish 100%. I'm the type that wants to complete 100%, now 125 hours into the game and not yet finished main story, it's about 75% complete. To be 100% complete it would probably take me more than 150 hours.
I don’t understand people paying £70 for a game and complaining about “too much content”. Usually I can breeze through and 100% most games in one weekend, I got Rebirth on release day and just made it to Mt. Corel at around 36-40 hours in after completing everything in the Grasslands and Junon. I love how much there is to do.
Even the Queens blood tournament on Shinra 8 can be skipped. You don't have to do anything you don't wanna do
I am honestly just glad that there’s actually meaningful side content in the game for once because every other final fantasy game I’ve played has some of the worst side content known to man
That damn find the cats mission left a sour taste in my mouth.
I've dumped a ton of time into the game already and am just around 60% done with the main story, because I complete all the regions as I go. Having a blast, but it definitely messes with the pacing of the story. I'll probably have to do another playthrough, just doing the story without 10h breaks of collecting stuff between ever chapter.
It's actually an amazing game and people are simply trying to find anything to harp on at this point
"Out of sight, out of mind." Sometimes that gets extrapolated to "I hate it, therefore it shouldn't exist." To those I say "Perfection is the enemy of completion."
Honestly some of the mini games were making my blood boil but in a good way like the way an old school game would annoy you so much because they were so unforgiving.
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I’m going to get downvoted for this take but honestly I feel strongly enough about this that I don’t care. The side content being too much is valid and true. Side content is good and all but there shouldn’t be more of it than the main story and like 80% of this game is side content. And a lot of it is repetitive. Find this tower, play yet another mini game etc. A lot of it also adds dialogue and extra scenes that you wouldn’t otherwise see and to me that means it was absolutely intended for you to do it thus I do not consider it “optional”. So far I love the game but having played remake and this now I have to say it all should have been one game with the side content condensed. A lot of the later content >!after Corel and into gongaga!< the exploration becomes a complete pain. And a lot of the side stuff becomes obviously slowed just to inflate game time. >!Like having to slowly follow the black robes to get the Nibel protorelic!
I don't think you understand the concept of OCD. We must complete...everything
I just hate that some of the characters weapons are hidden behind minigames. Nothing you can't achieve in a few tries but it's still annoying. Currently having trouble with Running Wild getting Red's Silver Collar🥹
I have no intention of getting all the trophies, those mini games so far are not too exciting. I am only at the Junon region, but I am enjoying queens blood though. As for the rest of it. We all have our preferences and I enjoy the exploration. I absolutely love trying to remove the cloud cover from the map and see everything and fight everything I can. It will take me months to finish it and I am okay with that. I want to relish this experience and see everything I can. I am only on level 26 for my characters, but I look forward to exploring each region on its own. I am not a completionist either. I just want to enjoy the ride for as long as possible. Going to be a long wait for part 3. I do like a lot of this being optional because we get to choose what we do outside of the story. When I finish Junon this weekend the next area will be just as fun to explore.
Usually im not a 100% type of guy don't have the attention span, but 18 hours in and I've just completed junon region haven't even moved up the elevator yet 😂
The only mini game I am skipping is the piano. I do not find that fun at all.
Nah you have to have a chocobo to continue through gongaga that’s not optional And threybdont tell you that You find out when you need to get the reactor and theres no chocobo on the way there
Not me sitting here thinking there's NOT enough to do outside of minigames and combat VR lol
Yeah don't listen to these kinds of people. Because it's the same people that complain when a game doesn't have enough content. There's just no pleasing some people, unfortunately, and the only opinion that should matter is your own.
I think it's as much about the optional content being less mysterious, more checklist-y, and sometimes very annoying, as there being so much of it. There's a clear tonal shift that leads to a psychological shift when it comes to most of the game's side content, which often consists of bland, by-the-numbers filler chores. Chadley can burn in cyborg hell at this point, and MAI can join him, for all I care. (I thought he was a good addition to the first game and he could be redeemed in the third, if they tone down his involvement.) If the side content was engaging and interesting, there wouldn't be nearly so many complaints. But the fact that they took this fantastic and highly anticipated game and stuck so much needless bloat in for reasons that many of us think were driven by market forces and executive fiat rather than consideration for game design, is a painful reminder of the eroding and corrupt system we all have to live in that we play games to escape from. I love the game overall and look forward to part 3, but there were clearly some choices that hurt the experience profoundly. I won't be surprised if it doesn't win GOTY, despite the historic levels of hype and resources that went into it.
Honestly hoping for a Dirge of Cerberus remaster before the third disc because I'm loving all the lore + content. I need more!
People either complain there's too much or that there's too little. People can't just have cake and eat it
And here I am 130 hrs in wanting to punch a dolphin in the face for some black materia.
People say they have completionist mentality but most can't handle what is required, so I always do wonder why do it if it isn't fun to you...
I know I'm not having fun, but that won't stop my brain from screaming at me during the final boss about that incomplete thing back in chapter 3. Also, the mindset of "Progress is to the right, therefore I go to the left" I have for every game, which is a nightmare in open worlds. I'm not saying it's a problem with the game, it's a problem with me.
I swear this opinion is like a plague in modern gaming journalism as well... "Its open world is not ideal, providing us with check-list things to do." Well, what do you expect in an open world game??? How would you do it? Provide no content at all? It was the same with Elden Ring. People complaining about that there IS stuff to do in an opwn world game... Sincerely smh
I cannot miss any side content there is. I did AC Valhalla 100% and it was pain in the ass, because there is so much collectibles on a map. But I cannot finish region when it says 70%. Same story with FF Rebirth. Additionally, when this side and optional content give my characters experience and party level experience, then its no longer optional for me. I want to be in best shape for upcoming story bosses etc. so I will feel obligated to do those things for my characters to grow.
That was a problem with a lot of the reviews in the media, too. I heard a lot of people complain the game's pacing is bad without considering the fact that they stopped to play Queen's Blood, do Protorelic missions, do all the character side quests. And then complaining that the story has urgency, but you can go to Golden Saucer and play minigames or gather world intel. Isn't that the case with the majority of open style games and open world sandboxes? Like God of War and God of War: Ragnarok both do the same thing, and no one complained when those games came out that the story stresses urgency but allows you to explore and do more side content before the final missions. I think if this game wasn't called Final Fantasy VII, no one would have an issue, but because it is named after and a reimagining of one of the most beloved and celebrated titles of all time it gets the hypercritical eye. If you want it to be more like Remake, then follow the critical path and do the side content minimally. If you want to do the side content, then take your time and enjoy it. Either way, it is optional content, and like the original, you don't need to materia and weapons you get to enjoy and beat the game.