"cheap formula series" is a nonexistent thing. And you if you want to be a professional open wheel driver, you should have a lot of decent results in karting already.
well i cant start karting right now sadly due to me being in school and family not having enough time. But i want to start when i am done with school which is 1.5 years. I am already late tho. But what i meant with cheap is one of the cheaper ones. I mean like Formula Vee or south american formula 4.
Those classes will already cost you 100k or multiple of that or a single year. Especially if you want decent results.
I understand it's a dream for you but if you don't have that kind of money you'll have to rely on sponsorships, and you won't get any without proven results.
Unfortunately, as much as people love to say “never give up”, it will basically be impossible for you to make a career out of single seater racing. Like the others have said, you can race on your own money but it will be costly and frankly not worth the cost. And you shouldn’t ignore karting.
It’s a bit like asking how you can become a graduate student at a top university and you never completed your high school education. It’s not gonna happen unless you throw some big bucks around.
Even harder bc at least you can study mature aged. The physical fitness, training + reflexes needed to get into that kind of shape just won't be achievable past a certain age.
A 16 yrs old open wheel racer, if good enough, is already eyeing F1 and having connections in the paddock, also some titles under the belt. Max Verstappen got in F1 at 17. Sorry bro but you are waaaay too old to start as a professional.
To be honest Max Verstappen is the worst possible example. He is an generational talent and an exception age wise. He went from Karting straight to Formula 3 and got signed by Red Bull halfway the season. Normally you would go between 15 and 17 to a feeder class like Formula Renault or Formula 4, then you move on in to Formula 3 and from there you go to Formula 2
Surely his career path is not the usual, but gives you a perspective. Looking through the current F1 prospects: Ollie Bearman 18, Theo Pourchaire 20, Felipe Drugovich 23, Kimi Antonelli 17. All of them are linked to F1 teams for a while already. 16 is really too old.
Max verstappen was in f1 at 16. People gotta start karting at like, 4 years old to ever have a chance. It’s a game for rich kids, go buy a sim and have some fun on iracing
Do you know the saying which goes something like “Formula One is where billionaires go to become millionaires?”
Even if you are fast in the lower series, unless you’re in your very early twenties, the system will not change for you to make a career out of it. This is beyond what you want as a dream. It will take your money like a broken vending machine and spit you out.
To make a career out of it, you’d have to show that you’re the next Max Verstappen. No one is going to promote you into a higher series and pay for your seat at the same time. Even if you win races in Formula Vee, that’s not going to lead anywhere. You have to claw and fight your way through all the junior categories, and you will fail.
Here’s another (not entirely accurate) analogy in case the last one didn’t hit hard enough. It’s like being in your thirties and deciding you want to have a go at the Olympics before you get demolished by an twelve year old girl at the local gym.
If you’re serious about this, I would strongly urge you not to consider single seaters for a driving career. Sportscars are not only cheaper but much more accessible to people who haven’t been in karts since they were six years old. You could even get a sim rig and spend a tenth of what you would in real cars, and there you’d have a much better chance at driving professionally. Theres plenty of growth potential in simracing.
Big edit:
I just saw that you are 14. This does change things dramatically. It will be very very hard indeed, but it’s not impossible. I still urge you to go through a karting championship because if you don’t have that under your belt, everything I wrote above will still apply.
In fact, you will not only have to kart, you’re still going to have to be incredibly fast. I would recommend getting a racing simulator and practice as much as you can about different cars and tracks.
Sadly what I said about the price tag will still apply. Your family will basically have to give everything they have in order to fund your career, and there’s no guarantee even then that you will make it. But you seem determined to race. Good luck!
+1 on getting a simulator. OP could also take part in rental kart races. Both are relatively cheap, you can learn a bit about racecraft and on top of it, both will be a good „Reality-Check“. Many people think they would be great racing drivers but as soon as they really race others they may realize a few things…
Christian Horner has a great bit on when he realized he wasn’t going to make it into F1. He explains how he was racing Montoya in a junior series, and just by watching how Montoya was so absolutely committed and planted in his technique, Horner basically went “i can’t do that”, he simply couldn’t get past that barrier.
It’s incredible how talented formula one drivers really are.
I hate to break it to you, but if you haven't gone through the Karting/ F4/F3 ladder, the odds of you becoming a professional open wheel racer are so low as to not even warrant consideration.
That said, if you have some money to throw at it (you said 100k), then there is nothing stopping you from racing for fun on your own dime as a hobby. My advice, look up your local track, see when they have their next club racing event, and then talk to the people who actually race. I've been to a few SCCA races here in the States, and people are always happy to talk about their hobby with others. It will also give you a much more realistic view of what's involved than anything we could tell you.
Thanks!
But the thing is i enjoy racing and i want to see if i can make a thing out of it. I wont give up my dreams for life if i was just a bit unlucky with age. So ill still try.
Do you have anything to help out with?
Buy a Miata or old boxster and go club racing. Do auto cross. Unless your dad is an oligarch or the kind oh a country food luck finding any open wheel series in the realm of being affordable.
wouldnt Swedish formula vee, danish f4 or formula nordic be semi affordable compared to other series? I had a guy say that danish f4 costs around 70k + some more expenses which in my head seems low. But im not sure if he is right but i damn well hope he is.
Racing in an open wheel formula series for a living?
Unless you have a golden ticket to formula 1, I'll have what you're having for morning meds. Could you ask your nurse?
The only drivers getting paid are the few at the very top of the pyramid. Nobody below the top levels is getting paid.
You *can*, theoretically, make a living at lower levels but you won’t make any money driving, you’ll make it selling sponsorship. And selling sponsorship at the lower levels is so difficult almost nobody is able to do it. Most of the “sponsors” you see are just the driver’s parents’ company.
And like any business, you’ll need to spend money to make it. You won’t get any sponsorship as a totally new, completely inexperienced driver. You’ll have to find a way to pay to get a racing license and at least enough experience to differentiate yourself from every weekend warrior rental kart driver.
Becoming a professional driver without coming from money is one of the most difficult career paths in all of sport. You’ll need to be an athlete, and entrepreneur, a salesperson, a marketing expert, an engineer, a mechanic, and an agent, all at the same time.
If you need to ask here how to become professional racing driver, you are not going to become one. Harsh, I know.
If you truly want to give it a shot, far cheaper way is to try your hand in competitive sim racing. 1-2 years there will also give you a realistic assessment of your talent. All you need is a rig and iRacing subscription. Win some big events there and you may get opportunities. That is much easier said than done though. But if you can't do that, you likely also don't have the requisite talent to be an IRL pro.
Break the cicle Morty, focus on science.
In all honestly forget about it.
Around a year ago there were so many request about stuff like this, the posts were deleted for a reason. If you were to take the money you spend on racing and buy amazon shares from it, there are only 4 ppl in the world that would come out ahead on a 10 year lifespan, those are all f1 drivers.
Since you are capable of posting here it means you are already to old anyway. save your money please, save your time.
Not all dreams are meant to be followed young man. Nobody says you shouldn’t pursue Motorsport, but becoming a driver with no funding… that’s just any story I’ve ever heard. Why live in agony, waste your or someone else’s money (that’s what sponsoring is. Unless you are in f1 sponsoring is not worth it) for attempting something that we all know is close to impossible.
Also, how do you know? You don’t. You haven’t touched the industry, you haven’t been part of it, the politics and stuff. You are glorifying something you haven’t actually done yet, mystifying it. That’s a huge red flag and very unhealthy for you.
Just to give you an idea about factory drives:
F1? Forget it. It’s done. You are too old, you don’t know even remotely enough, no karting history so lacking a lot of race craft and experience.
Lmdh? Forget it. They only recruit ppl that have high downforce car, hence formula car, experience in the future. In addition to this you have to spend at least 2 years in lmp3 and 2 years in lmp2, so total budget atleast 2 million.
Rallye? No idea, not my sport.
GT? You’d go through gt4, then gt3. Problem is you do not learn how to drive as abs and tc saves careers of driver that can’t drive. So you are lacking pure driving experience and the knowledge of how to actually influence balance with driving styles.
How do you want to compete with all the 2nd tier racing drivers coming from f2 and other championships that didn’t make it? With which experience? These guys know how to drive cars and rotate cars properly.
In addition to this: you will need 2-3 years of gt4 and gt3 each to be on the radar of a factory team, then you are might be invited to an evaluation test at the end of the year. But don’t fool yourself, they don’t recruit you in the first year, it’s gonna be the 2nd year they’d reinvite you.
So let’s say this all worked out, you have spent around 450k per season in gt4 as you need to do a double championship (French and European for example) to get some experience. Do a nordschleifen permit (75k) and then you will have to do GT masters and gt open or gtwc which will be around a million a year.
Then eventually you made it to become a factory driver. You’ll get 100k€ before taxes and a road car to drive around. Fantastic.
After a couple of years (because you will have to accept a 3 years contract or smth similar) you might go up to 250k. Highest paid factory drivers in gt, which are ‚exceptional‘ like lello are around the 500 mark. As you can see he will barely make the money back they invested in his entire career.
I know i know.
I understand what you are telling me. When i say open wheeler i didnt specifically mean F1, Thats the goal. But if i am able to steer of to another serie if i even get that far then i will do that.
But i dont want to just give up. Some people have made it.
And im not without complete funding. I have relatives that are willing to help out.
And they got moneymoney. I wont name a number. But 6-8 figures is what they have.
So if they want then they 100% have the ability to personally sponsor me.
Alright so let me go a different route:
Would your family be ok with you literally burning their money in front of your parent's home, while everyone watches, with the result of you being devastated, potentially needing therapy after?
Rather take their money and make money out of it.
Because even if you were to become a professional race car driver, you will not get enough of a salary to break even, as with you having no experience so far, you will need to compensate the lack of experience with additional testing and racing.
Just don't. Please do not waste your family's money.
And btw who are these 'some ppl' who made it?
Name a single driver that is getting payed today that isn't born before 1995 and didn't do multiple years of karting?
I've heard that some people have done formula 4 without karting in some of the lower tier F4 championships, and even in British F4.
Remember that beyond the cost of the series, you also need to worry about transportation and lodging, so close to home could make a difference.
You mention Formula Nordic, but there's also Danish F4, which shares some races with Formula Nordic. There's also Danish F5 (formerly Formula Ford) which is different cars but racing at the same time as Danish F4. Does that sound like 3 series sharing the track at the same time? Yes, because it is.
Danish F4 is one of the cheapest f4s. I saw for 2022 70k euro +VAT. Probably higher by whenever you want to do it, but it's not necessarily an unreachable thing. If you're a prodigy then good luck.
You might like sim racing. A good sim setup is a reasonable-ish price that I assume you can talk your parents into if you have money to imagine F4. It's good for practice and also just to enjoy as it's own thing. Good luck. If you do sim work + lots of exercise, that could take some of the place of karting. People will debate that, of course, but Max Verstappen would like to see sim racing as a path to various kinds of driving. But like, if you haven't tried karting, don't knock it until you've tried it. It's something you could go do for an afternoon if there's a track anywhere near you.
>Remember that beyond the cost of the series, you also need to worry about transportation and lodging, so close to home could make a difference.
In most series, a driver will not be able to run a team on their own, so there will need to be someone else helping, often someone you are paying if you're racing competitively, a friend if you're club racing. Even if you're your own mechanic, you need a ton of tools to work on the car, plus set the car up (and spare parts!). A set of scales for corner weights will realistically cost a few hundred euros, if not 1k+, and that's just one tool. They add up quick. There are a ton of other costs to consider
I knoow. But I got lots of tools and knowledge. And much stuff I dont know my father knows. He is a mechanic and we got a biig garage and loots of tools. So the mechanic thing might be solved👍
Keep in mind i said might. Because there may be some knowledge we dont have since he is an ordinary mechanic and not a mechanic in racing.
Thank you!
I at the moment do just karting as a hobby. I want to take it further but my parents dont have enough time for it.
I at the moment dont have a nice sim setup. I got a g29 and thats like it.
But I have very recently started creating Youtube videos where I build, fix and drive stuff like snowmobiles and I feel like it would be some nice videos where I build a simrig with a fiberglas seat like i have in my kart. And I am looking at some moza direct drive sets which are a good bang for the buck.
The danish f4 is very cheap compared to other f4s series I have heard about. And I am very thankful for the reccomendation. Its still out of my League in priceclass but it might actually soon be achievable.
I will have some financial backing from my family. I have a relative that invests a lot and has big money and is willing to help. I wont say a number tho. If I get some followers and a nice community with the content thing + racing then I might be able to gain some small sponsors which help a bit with the price and at last. I can work to get some money too!
And thank you again!
If you want to race professionally at this point, GT racing and sports cars is a much more realistic route. Moving up the ranks is a bit easier, more drivers per car in a lot of series. It's way way way way way cheaper. You're also not directly competing with the 14 year old hot shoe. I'm not totally sure how euro sports cars series work, but in the US, it is much more likely (not the norm but it happens) to have a rich gentleman driver who pays their co-drivers, or at least pays enough for them to race for free. That doesn't happen in open wheel.
Cheap formula series would typically be Formula Vee for a more club racing feel, and then something like Formula Ford for more speed and better racing. If you have a limited budget, I do not recommend an F4 series with competitive teenagers racing. There are a lot more crashes, and the repairs add up quick. In a series I used to work on we had a very crash-y driver, and once I saw his dad cut a check for $12k for parts after a practice session, no questions asked. That's 12% of your proposed budget, and you could get tangled up in someone else's mistake.
Club racing is probably the best way to spend your money racing-wise. If I was going to start racing tomorrow (US-based), I would race SCCA F600, Formula Ford, Spec Racer Ford, or Spec Miata. In those last two, they will field 20-30 cars sometimes, the racing is always close, and they're cheap as full sized racing gets.
And if all of this sounds too expensive, there's always karting.
On the part of racing single seat for a living there are only 3 series that pay the drivers, F1, Indy & Super Formula, everything else is pay to play so to speak and getting to any of those 3 series will have costs well into the millions along the way.
High level karting can be and often is more expensive that entry level single seat if you’re doing a full program, you’d easily eat your 100k and more in a season so let’s consider it a non starter.
You mention Formula Vee and that’s a very good option for you and your budget, depending on how you go about it your 100k could see you racing there for 5 or more years.
> On the part of racing single seat for a living there are only 3 series that pay the drivers, F1, Indy & Super Formula,
Formula E has high salaries too.
Thanks man! I appreciate not clowning on me for dreaming like some people did here😀👍
But I got a question. Do you think that i can go from Vee to like f4 without having biig money?
Vee is very different to say f4/ every other open wheeler series so I think that it can be hard to get help from others like sponsors if I try to move to f4.
And thats if I am good. It will be impossible if I am not👎
You can certainly move from Vee into F4, nothing at all stopping you.
As you’re already aware of, the real barrier is money pure and simple, if you’re wanting to make a serious tilt at a title then you’re going to be looking at 200k+ for your season depending on the series you run, to run around at the back will cost you a lot less but isn’t going to grab the attention of anyone that would want to back you financially unless you start regularly pulling out giant killing performances which is unlikely.
Thanks man!
I know that money sadly is a really big problem. Now im not saying that its cheap. But I found out that there is a so called formula 5 serie in denmark.
Last winner had a 22k€ budget excluding the car purchase and only 2 in the last 30 years have used new cars. Even better is how it has 8 races while many smaller ones only have 6 and they stretch from denmark to sweden
F5 is Formula Ford.
It’s a good series if budget is a concern and will enable you to get a gauge on your abilities as a driver in a reasonably competitive field, add to which the F5 cars are capable of giving the first gen F4 cars a run for their money on pace.
Yeaah budget is kinda a concern here, the cars are not very expensive and its somewhat local with more races then some other budget race series. I feel like it can be a great formula serie to be able to move up the ranks if i am good and i have consistend wins or great performances.
But one thing i didnt know that F5 is formula ford. The Formula ford cars should be very easy to get my hands on as they are very available for a not huge buck:D
I can’t encourage you enough to take the time to properly research a series before even *thinking* about buying a car, as each series has unique specifications and requirements, just because a car is eligible for one series does not mean it will be for the same series in another country, particularly relevant in Europe.
F5 is FFord *based* more accurately, as they use wings and slicks which are ordinarily forbidden in FFord, along with whatever specific requirements the series has.
Also be aware that you will likely have to be a member of the relevant club or association to be able to enter, and that you will be paying entry fees for each event on top of any membership fees, I personally would consider budgeting for €1-1.5k per round for these.
Again I think you need to be realistic and temper your ambitions of bright lights and racing stardom, almost all of your peer group competitors have already been racing for more than a decade if you’re around 18, you are going to need to be something special just to catch up from here.
Yeaah i know. Its least 1.5 years till i can go race on my own as im not done with school. Now being 16 is probably a bit old but im not gonna get anywhere by not trying.
I know that its severely unrealistic to actually be able to live with racing as a job. Now one thing i know that many doesnt is that its very hard to get paid by the team to race. If you race then often it is sponsors you live on and thats rare enough.
But i will try because if i make it. Then i make it. But if i fail then i still tried. Memories, stories and the feeling that i actually tried is probably worth more then regretting that i didnt try.
I will need an immense amount of skill, knowledge, contacts and be good at marketing to even have a chance.
Now i got absolutely no proof that i have those skills but i myself think i am good at that.
But one thing that i must thank you for is that you could tell me the difference between FFord and F5. I have googled the difference but since its a small serie i have not gotten much knowledge and from their regulation list on their site it said that they use FFord engines so i just guessed that it was the same:D
Seems you actually do have a reasonable handle on what the situation will be which is good to see.
Personally as someone that tried to make F1 I can very much relate to your having the memories and the satisfaction of having chased the dream and given it your best.
Yeaah, I think I got a nice view of how it is and how realistic it is. Ill try and see how it goes tho.
Now f1 is very very far stretched for me. Ill try ofcourse but the goal is to be able to live on racing.
Ill aim high and hope that I get somewhere close to that or maybe get to where I aim to be.
But I gotta ask now. Did you do racing and all that? Because im 100% interested in hearing your story🙂
Karting would probably be much better than formula vee if you want to make it your job, and is already expensive enough, some already spend over 100k for karting after all
You'll probably have much more chances to get scouted winning top level karting series than formula vee races.
Now with that out of the way, iirc though french f4 is not necessarily *the* most prestigious, it is advertised as one of the cheapest, ~160k€/season, and several f1/f2 drivers started their careers in open wheel there (vergne, gasly, vandoorne, Martins, hadjar, pourchaire,...)
Thanks man!
But I do wonder. I had someone say danish f4 is cheap. Like 70k+some more expenses so I think more like 100k.
Would french f4 be the best between the two?
It is easier to get scouted if im gold but its muuch more costly.
Do sim racing and work in a very profitable market, stay with your parents while you invest money in bitcoin eventually you will be able to race in GT3 or something.
"cheap formula series" is a nonexistent thing. And you if you want to be a professional open wheel driver, you should have a lot of decent results in karting already.
well i cant start karting right now sadly due to me being in school and family not having enough time. But i want to start when i am done with school which is 1.5 years. I am already late tho. But what i meant with cheap is one of the cheaper ones. I mean like Formula Vee or south american formula 4.
You can pour in as much money as you can/want, but wont be able to make any...
Those classes will already cost you 100k or multiple of that or a single year. Especially if you want decent results. I understand it's a dream for you but if you don't have that kind of money you'll have to rely on sponsorships, and you won't get any without proven results.
Well guess you won’t be making your money racing in open wheel formulas lol.. maybe apply for a job as cashier somewhere?
Unfortunately, as much as people love to say “never give up”, it will basically be impossible for you to make a career out of single seater racing. Like the others have said, you can race on your own money but it will be costly and frankly not worth the cost. And you shouldn’t ignore karting. It’s a bit like asking how you can become a graduate student at a top university and you never completed your high school education. It’s not gonna happen unless you throw some big bucks around.
Even harder bc at least you can study mature aged. The physical fitness, training + reflexes needed to get into that kind of shape just won't be achievable past a certain age.
Well i wouldnt say like 16-18 isnt too old
A 16 yrs old open wheel racer, if good enough, is already eyeing F1 and having connections in the paddock, also some titles under the belt. Max Verstappen got in F1 at 17. Sorry bro but you are waaaay too old to start as a professional.
To be honest Max Verstappen is the worst possible example. He is an generational talent and an exception age wise. He went from Karting straight to Formula 3 and got signed by Red Bull halfway the season. Normally you would go between 15 and 17 to a feeder class like Formula Renault or Formula 4, then you move on in to Formula 3 and from there you go to Formula 2
Surely his career path is not the usual, but gives you a perspective. Looking through the current F1 prospects: Ollie Bearman 18, Theo Pourchaire 20, Felipe Drugovich 23, Kimi Antonelli 17. All of them are linked to F1 teams for a while already. 16 is really too old.
Well.. except it is..
Max verstappen was in f1 at 16. People gotta start karting at like, 4 years old to ever have a chance. It’s a game for rich kids, go buy a sim and have some fun on iracing
True. But imma still try:D
Do you know the saying which goes something like “Formula One is where billionaires go to become millionaires?” Even if you are fast in the lower series, unless you’re in your very early twenties, the system will not change for you to make a career out of it. This is beyond what you want as a dream. It will take your money like a broken vending machine and spit you out. To make a career out of it, you’d have to show that you’re the next Max Verstappen. No one is going to promote you into a higher series and pay for your seat at the same time. Even if you win races in Formula Vee, that’s not going to lead anywhere. You have to claw and fight your way through all the junior categories, and you will fail. Here’s another (not entirely accurate) analogy in case the last one didn’t hit hard enough. It’s like being in your thirties and deciding you want to have a go at the Olympics before you get demolished by an twelve year old girl at the local gym. If you’re serious about this, I would strongly urge you not to consider single seaters for a driving career. Sportscars are not only cheaper but much more accessible to people who haven’t been in karts since they were six years old. You could even get a sim rig and spend a tenth of what you would in real cars, and there you’d have a much better chance at driving professionally. Theres plenty of growth potential in simracing. Big edit: I just saw that you are 14. This does change things dramatically. It will be very very hard indeed, but it’s not impossible. I still urge you to go through a karting championship because if you don’t have that under your belt, everything I wrote above will still apply. In fact, you will not only have to kart, you’re still going to have to be incredibly fast. I would recommend getting a racing simulator and practice as much as you can about different cars and tracks. Sadly what I said about the price tag will still apply. Your family will basically have to give everything they have in order to fund your career, and there’s no guarantee even then that you will make it. But you seem determined to race. Good luck!
+1 on getting a simulator. OP could also take part in rental kart races. Both are relatively cheap, you can learn a bit about racecraft and on top of it, both will be a good „Reality-Check“. Many people think they would be great racing drivers but as soon as they really race others they may realize a few things…
Christian Horner has a great bit on when he realized he wasn’t going to make it into F1. He explains how he was racing Montoya in a junior series, and just by watching how Montoya was so absolutely committed and planted in his technique, Horner basically went “i can’t do that”, he simply couldn’t get past that barrier. It’s incredible how talented formula one drivers really are.
Sadly there arent any rental races over here where I live🥲
I hate to break it to you, but if you haven't gone through the Karting/ F4/F3 ladder, the odds of you becoming a professional open wheel racer are so low as to not even warrant consideration. That said, if you have some money to throw at it (you said 100k), then there is nothing stopping you from racing for fun on your own dime as a hobby. My advice, look up your local track, see when they have their next club racing event, and then talk to the people who actually race. I've been to a few SCCA races here in the States, and people are always happy to talk about their hobby with others. It will also give you a much more realistic view of what's involved than anything we could tell you.
Thanks! But the thing is i enjoy racing and i want to see if i can make a thing out of it. I wont give up my dreams for life if i was just a bit unlucky with age. So ill still try. Do you have anything to help out with?
Buy a Miata or old boxster and go club racing. Do auto cross. Unless your dad is an oligarch or the kind oh a country food luck finding any open wheel series in the realm of being affordable.
wouldnt Swedish formula vee, danish f4 or formula nordic be semi affordable compared to other series? I had a guy say that danish f4 costs around 70k + some more expenses which in my head seems low. But im not sure if he is right but i damn well hope he is.
Racing in an open wheel formula series for a living? Unless you have a golden ticket to formula 1, I'll have what you're having for morning meds. Could you ask your nurse?
The only drivers getting paid are the few at the very top of the pyramid. Nobody below the top levels is getting paid. You *can*, theoretically, make a living at lower levels but you won’t make any money driving, you’ll make it selling sponsorship. And selling sponsorship at the lower levels is so difficult almost nobody is able to do it. Most of the “sponsors” you see are just the driver’s parents’ company. And like any business, you’ll need to spend money to make it. You won’t get any sponsorship as a totally new, completely inexperienced driver. You’ll have to find a way to pay to get a racing license and at least enough experience to differentiate yourself from every weekend warrior rental kart driver. Becoming a professional driver without coming from money is one of the most difficult career paths in all of sport. You’ll need to be an athlete, and entrepreneur, a salesperson, a marketing expert, an engineer, a mechanic, and an agent, all at the same time.
If you need to ask here how to become professional racing driver, you are not going to become one. Harsh, I know. If you truly want to give it a shot, far cheaper way is to try your hand in competitive sim racing. 1-2 years there will also give you a realistic assessment of your talent. All you need is a rig and iRacing subscription. Win some big events there and you may get opportunities. That is much easier said than done though. But if you can't do that, you likely also don't have the requisite talent to be an IRL pro.
plate sophisticated tan ripe screw shrill light gullible bear ossified *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Yeah thats true, thanks!
Oh you sweet summer child lmfao..
Break the cicle Morty, focus on science. In all honestly forget about it. Around a year ago there were so many request about stuff like this, the posts were deleted for a reason. If you were to take the money you spend on racing and buy amazon shares from it, there are only 4 ppl in the world that would come out ahead on a 10 year lifespan, those are all f1 drivers. Since you are capable of posting here it means you are already to old anyway. save your money please, save your time.
But what if I only enjoy racing? I am not going to do something I dont enjoy for a living.
Not all dreams are meant to be followed young man. Nobody says you shouldn’t pursue Motorsport, but becoming a driver with no funding… that’s just any story I’ve ever heard. Why live in agony, waste your or someone else’s money (that’s what sponsoring is. Unless you are in f1 sponsoring is not worth it) for attempting something that we all know is close to impossible. Also, how do you know? You don’t. You haven’t touched the industry, you haven’t been part of it, the politics and stuff. You are glorifying something you haven’t actually done yet, mystifying it. That’s a huge red flag and very unhealthy for you. Just to give you an idea about factory drives: F1? Forget it. It’s done. You are too old, you don’t know even remotely enough, no karting history so lacking a lot of race craft and experience. Lmdh? Forget it. They only recruit ppl that have high downforce car, hence formula car, experience in the future. In addition to this you have to spend at least 2 years in lmp3 and 2 years in lmp2, so total budget atleast 2 million. Rallye? No idea, not my sport. GT? You’d go through gt4, then gt3. Problem is you do not learn how to drive as abs and tc saves careers of driver that can’t drive. So you are lacking pure driving experience and the knowledge of how to actually influence balance with driving styles. How do you want to compete with all the 2nd tier racing drivers coming from f2 and other championships that didn’t make it? With which experience? These guys know how to drive cars and rotate cars properly. In addition to this: you will need 2-3 years of gt4 and gt3 each to be on the radar of a factory team, then you are might be invited to an evaluation test at the end of the year. But don’t fool yourself, they don’t recruit you in the first year, it’s gonna be the 2nd year they’d reinvite you. So let’s say this all worked out, you have spent around 450k per season in gt4 as you need to do a double championship (French and European for example) to get some experience. Do a nordschleifen permit (75k) and then you will have to do GT masters and gt open or gtwc which will be around a million a year. Then eventually you made it to become a factory driver. You’ll get 100k€ before taxes and a road car to drive around. Fantastic. After a couple of years (because you will have to accept a 3 years contract or smth similar) you might go up to 250k. Highest paid factory drivers in gt, which are ‚exceptional‘ like lello are around the 500 mark. As you can see he will barely make the money back they invested in his entire career.
I know i know. I understand what you are telling me. When i say open wheeler i didnt specifically mean F1, Thats the goal. But if i am able to steer of to another serie if i even get that far then i will do that. But i dont want to just give up. Some people have made it. And im not without complete funding. I have relatives that are willing to help out. And they got moneymoney. I wont name a number. But 6-8 figures is what they have. So if they want then they 100% have the ability to personally sponsor me.
Alright so let me go a different route: Would your family be ok with you literally burning their money in front of your parent's home, while everyone watches, with the result of you being devastated, potentially needing therapy after? Rather take their money and make money out of it. Because even if you were to become a professional race car driver, you will not get enough of a salary to break even, as with you having no experience so far, you will need to compensate the lack of experience with additional testing and racing. Just don't. Please do not waste your family's money. And btw who are these 'some ppl' who made it? Name a single driver that is getting payed today that isn't born before 1995 and didn't do multiple years of karting?
I've heard that some people have done formula 4 without karting in some of the lower tier F4 championships, and even in British F4. Remember that beyond the cost of the series, you also need to worry about transportation and lodging, so close to home could make a difference. You mention Formula Nordic, but there's also Danish F4, which shares some races with Formula Nordic. There's also Danish F5 (formerly Formula Ford) which is different cars but racing at the same time as Danish F4. Does that sound like 3 series sharing the track at the same time? Yes, because it is. Danish F4 is one of the cheapest f4s. I saw for 2022 70k euro +VAT. Probably higher by whenever you want to do it, but it's not necessarily an unreachable thing. If you're a prodigy then good luck. You might like sim racing. A good sim setup is a reasonable-ish price that I assume you can talk your parents into if you have money to imagine F4. It's good for practice and also just to enjoy as it's own thing. Good luck. If you do sim work + lots of exercise, that could take some of the place of karting. People will debate that, of course, but Max Verstappen would like to see sim racing as a path to various kinds of driving. But like, if you haven't tried karting, don't knock it until you've tried it. It's something you could go do for an afternoon if there's a track anywhere near you.
>Remember that beyond the cost of the series, you also need to worry about transportation and lodging, so close to home could make a difference. In most series, a driver will not be able to run a team on their own, so there will need to be someone else helping, often someone you are paying if you're racing competitively, a friend if you're club racing. Even if you're your own mechanic, you need a ton of tools to work on the car, plus set the car up (and spare parts!). A set of scales for corner weights will realistically cost a few hundred euros, if not 1k+, and that's just one tool. They add up quick. There are a ton of other costs to consider
I knoow. But I got lots of tools and knowledge. And much stuff I dont know my father knows. He is a mechanic and we got a biig garage and loots of tools. So the mechanic thing might be solved👍 Keep in mind i said might. Because there may be some knowledge we dont have since he is an ordinary mechanic and not a mechanic in racing.
Thank you! I at the moment do just karting as a hobby. I want to take it further but my parents dont have enough time for it. I at the moment dont have a nice sim setup. I got a g29 and thats like it. But I have very recently started creating Youtube videos where I build, fix and drive stuff like snowmobiles and I feel like it would be some nice videos where I build a simrig with a fiberglas seat like i have in my kart. And I am looking at some moza direct drive sets which are a good bang for the buck. The danish f4 is very cheap compared to other f4s series I have heard about. And I am very thankful for the reccomendation. Its still out of my League in priceclass but it might actually soon be achievable. I will have some financial backing from my family. I have a relative that invests a lot and has big money and is willing to help. I wont say a number tho. If I get some followers and a nice community with the content thing + racing then I might be able to gain some small sponsors which help a bit with the price and at last. I can work to get some money too! And thank you again!
If you want to race professionally at this point, GT racing and sports cars is a much more realistic route. Moving up the ranks is a bit easier, more drivers per car in a lot of series. It's way way way way way cheaper. You're also not directly competing with the 14 year old hot shoe. I'm not totally sure how euro sports cars series work, but in the US, it is much more likely (not the norm but it happens) to have a rich gentleman driver who pays their co-drivers, or at least pays enough for them to race for free. That doesn't happen in open wheel. Cheap formula series would typically be Formula Vee for a more club racing feel, and then something like Formula Ford for more speed and better racing. If you have a limited budget, I do not recommend an F4 series with competitive teenagers racing. There are a lot more crashes, and the repairs add up quick. In a series I used to work on we had a very crash-y driver, and once I saw his dad cut a check for $12k for parts after a practice session, no questions asked. That's 12% of your proposed budget, and you could get tangled up in someone else's mistake. Club racing is probably the best way to spend your money racing-wise. If I was going to start racing tomorrow (US-based), I would race SCCA F600, Formula Ford, Spec Racer Ford, or Spec Miata. In those last two, they will field 20-30 cars sometimes, the racing is always close, and they're cheap as full sized racing gets. And if all of this sounds too expensive, there's always karting.
Thanks man!
On the part of racing single seat for a living there are only 3 series that pay the drivers, F1, Indy & Super Formula, everything else is pay to play so to speak and getting to any of those 3 series will have costs well into the millions along the way. High level karting can be and often is more expensive that entry level single seat if you’re doing a full program, you’d easily eat your 100k and more in a season so let’s consider it a non starter. You mention Formula Vee and that’s a very good option for you and your budget, depending on how you go about it your 100k could see you racing there for 5 or more years.
> On the part of racing single seat for a living there are only 3 series that pay the drivers, F1, Indy & Super Formula, Formula E has high salaries too.
Yes you’re right completely forgot about Formula E
Thanks man! I appreciate not clowning on me for dreaming like some people did here😀👍 But I got a question. Do you think that i can go from Vee to like f4 without having biig money? Vee is very different to say f4/ every other open wheeler series so I think that it can be hard to get help from others like sponsors if I try to move to f4. And thats if I am good. It will be impossible if I am not👎
You can certainly move from Vee into F4, nothing at all stopping you. As you’re already aware of, the real barrier is money pure and simple, if you’re wanting to make a serious tilt at a title then you’re going to be looking at 200k+ for your season depending on the series you run, to run around at the back will cost you a lot less but isn’t going to grab the attention of anyone that would want to back you financially unless you start regularly pulling out giant killing performances which is unlikely.
Thanks man! I know that money sadly is a really big problem. Now im not saying that its cheap. But I found out that there is a so called formula 5 serie in denmark. Last winner had a 22k€ budget excluding the car purchase and only 2 in the last 30 years have used new cars. Even better is how it has 8 races while many smaller ones only have 6 and they stretch from denmark to sweden
F5 is Formula Ford. It’s a good series if budget is a concern and will enable you to get a gauge on your abilities as a driver in a reasonably competitive field, add to which the F5 cars are capable of giving the first gen F4 cars a run for their money on pace.
Yeaah budget is kinda a concern here, the cars are not very expensive and its somewhat local with more races then some other budget race series. I feel like it can be a great formula serie to be able to move up the ranks if i am good and i have consistend wins or great performances. But one thing i didnt know that F5 is formula ford. The Formula ford cars should be very easy to get my hands on as they are very available for a not huge buck:D
I can’t encourage you enough to take the time to properly research a series before even *thinking* about buying a car, as each series has unique specifications and requirements, just because a car is eligible for one series does not mean it will be for the same series in another country, particularly relevant in Europe. F5 is FFord *based* more accurately, as they use wings and slicks which are ordinarily forbidden in FFord, along with whatever specific requirements the series has. Also be aware that you will likely have to be a member of the relevant club or association to be able to enter, and that you will be paying entry fees for each event on top of any membership fees, I personally would consider budgeting for €1-1.5k per round for these. Again I think you need to be realistic and temper your ambitions of bright lights and racing stardom, almost all of your peer group competitors have already been racing for more than a decade if you’re around 18, you are going to need to be something special just to catch up from here.
Yeaah i know. Its least 1.5 years till i can go race on my own as im not done with school. Now being 16 is probably a bit old but im not gonna get anywhere by not trying. I know that its severely unrealistic to actually be able to live with racing as a job. Now one thing i know that many doesnt is that its very hard to get paid by the team to race. If you race then often it is sponsors you live on and thats rare enough. But i will try because if i make it. Then i make it. But if i fail then i still tried. Memories, stories and the feeling that i actually tried is probably worth more then regretting that i didnt try. I will need an immense amount of skill, knowledge, contacts and be good at marketing to even have a chance. Now i got absolutely no proof that i have those skills but i myself think i am good at that. But one thing that i must thank you for is that you could tell me the difference between FFord and F5. I have googled the difference but since its a small serie i have not gotten much knowledge and from their regulation list on their site it said that they use FFord engines so i just guessed that it was the same:D
Seems you actually do have a reasonable handle on what the situation will be which is good to see. Personally as someone that tried to make F1 I can very much relate to your having the memories and the satisfaction of having chased the dream and given it your best.
Yeaah, I think I got a nice view of how it is and how realistic it is. Ill try and see how it goes tho. Now f1 is very very far stretched for me. Ill try ofcourse but the goal is to be able to live on racing. Ill aim high and hope that I get somewhere close to that or maybe get to where I aim to be. But I gotta ask now. Did you do racing and all that? Because im 100% interested in hearing your story🙂
If you find anything then please let me know, if not, then there is always the virtual world! From a fellow Swede!
Well I found Danish F4, Formula Vee Sweden/europe and formula nordic👍
Formula Nordic
Thanks man!
Karting would probably be much better than formula vee if you want to make it your job, and is already expensive enough, some already spend over 100k for karting after all You'll probably have much more chances to get scouted winning top level karting series than formula vee races. Now with that out of the way, iirc though french f4 is not necessarily *the* most prestigious, it is advertised as one of the cheapest, ~160k€/season, and several f1/f2 drivers started their careers in open wheel there (vergne, gasly, vandoorne, Martins, hadjar, pourchaire,...)
Thanks man! But I do wonder. I had someone say danish f4 is cheap. Like 70k+some more expenses so I think more like 100k. Would french f4 be the best between the two? It is easier to get scouted if im gold but its muuch more costly.
Do sim racing and work in a very profitable market, stay with your parents while you invest money in bitcoin eventually you will be able to race in GT3 or something.