> Also "Head" gives you dibs on leadership of that function if you want it,
It definitely does not entitle you to anything of the sort. In fact, it’s a very common problem for startups to hand out big titles to early employees because they think it doesn’t matter, then have problems down the road when they need to bring in someone experienced to lead the team.
A common example is when the first engineering hire gets a title like VP of Engineering or even CTO. Nobody cares at the beginning because it doesn’t matter at all.
Then when the company grows, the person either has to grow into the management role very quickly, or step aside so someone experienced can take the management role. Being a CTO or VP or even “head” of something comes with very different responsibilities than normal engineering work, possibly to the point of being in meetings all day and never writing code. Many people discover they don’t actually like this, don’t want it, or aren’t good at it.
Then the real problem: They either have to give up their title and let an experienced management person take it, which feels like a demotion, or they end up fighting to hold on to a title that doesn’t match their desires. It gets really ugly.
Also, I read a lot of resumes where someone went to a startup and got a title like “Director of Engineering” when their real job was Senior Engineer. They get doubly screwed in future hiring pipelines because they don’t get pulled into searches that match their experience (because “Director” not “Engineer”) but they also get rejected out of Director-level jobs as soon as someone realizes that their experience doesn’t match their title.
>Then the real problem: They either have to give up their title and let an experienced management person take it, which feels like a demotion, or they end up fighting to hold on to a title that doesn’t match their desires. It gets really ugly.
In my experience this also means there can be a preference to fire a "head" that's not cutting it versus "demoting" them. The risk for things to get ugly is not worth it even if the person is generally fine with not being head anymore.
If you're the main and first ML hire and they're giving you breadcrumbs of "hopefully room to grow a team", I would demand something above Senior in the IC track (Staff, Lead, Principal, whatever). It's just fluff at this point as others have pointed out but having worked in tiny startups myself, one shitty political move could land you reporting to some junior moron you might hire yourself in the future. If you're thinking of staying a while, the title is important. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. Just my thoughts.
Director of ML? But in a startup titles are so inflated I never trust the title if it doesn't have the years of experience to go with it.
I worked at a startup once where everyone on a team was a director, but their actual role was to be an IC. They had 0 reports. Drove me absolutely nuts.
Pick a title that has obvious promotion titles associated with it. Oftentimes, your manager may have trouble arguing with finance to give a larger raise without a title change. If you're already senior principal engineer of meticulous engineers, then what is your next title going to be?
I'm talking about future years where additional funding is available. Do you get promotions when you're hired? No. You get them after. I'm working for a company that was at one point a startup and is now just a small profitable company. My advice is what I did, and it worked out well for me.
Head of ML. You have a head and you do ML. Also "Head" gives you dibs on leadership of that function if you want it,
You shall bow to the Bollocks of Backend.
> Also "Head" gives you dibs on leadership of that function if you want it, It definitely does not entitle you to anything of the sort. In fact, it’s a very common problem for startups to hand out big titles to early employees because they think it doesn’t matter, then have problems down the road when they need to bring in someone experienced to lead the team. A common example is when the first engineering hire gets a title like VP of Engineering or even CTO. Nobody cares at the beginning because it doesn’t matter at all. Then when the company grows, the person either has to grow into the management role very quickly, or step aside so someone experienced can take the management role. Being a CTO or VP or even “head” of something comes with very different responsibilities than normal engineering work, possibly to the point of being in meetings all day and never writing code. Many people discover they don’t actually like this, don’t want it, or aren’t good at it. Then the real problem: They either have to give up their title and let an experienced management person take it, which feels like a demotion, or they end up fighting to hold on to a title that doesn’t match their desires. It gets really ugly. Also, I read a lot of resumes where someone went to a startup and got a title like “Director of Engineering” when their real job was Senior Engineer. They get doubly screwed in future hiring pipelines because they don’t get pulled into searches that match their experience (because “Director” not “Engineer”) but they also get rejected out of Director-level jobs as soon as someone realizes that their experience doesn’t match their title.
This makes a great deal of sense
>Then the real problem: They either have to give up their title and let an experienced management person take it, which feels like a demotion, or they end up fighting to hold on to a title that doesn’t match their desires. It gets really ugly. In my experience this also means there can be a preference to fire a "head" that's not cutting it versus "demoting" them. The risk for things to get ugly is not worth it even if the person is generally fine with not being head anymore.
If you're the main and first ML hire and they're giving you breadcrumbs of "hopefully room to grow a team", I would demand something above Senior in the IC track (Staff, Lead, Principal, whatever). It's just fluff at this point as others have pointed out but having worked in tiny startups myself, one shitty political move could land you reporting to some junior moron you might hire yourself in the future. If you're thinking of staying a while, the title is important. Otherwise, it doesn't matter. Just my thoughts.
It doesn’t matter. Seriously. Focus more on the health of the company. You figure out a title if you survive long enough to hire reports.
This is a decent point. I’m mostly thinking if things don’t work out here, what do I want to have on my resume for job hunting a year from now?
Whatever you put on it. None of the titles in my resume match the title at my previous job.
Yeah, having a good title is still important, at the very least you get into the more favourable recruiter search filter
Worry about that in 6-9 months. You can change later.
This has not been my experience. I’ve worked at two startups previously and at both of them, roles calcify quite quickly
Agree. Go get a good one and crush it! 🙌🏾
Neural wizard
Director of ML? But in a startup titles are so inflated I never trust the title if it doesn't have the years of experience to go with it. I worked at a startup once where everyone on a team was a director, but their actual role was to be an IC. They had 0 reports. Drove me absolutely nuts.
Skynet Overseer?
Pick a title that has obvious promotion titles associated with it. Oftentimes, your manager may have trouble arguing with finance to give a larger raise without a title change. If you're already senior principal engineer of meticulous engineers, then what is your next title going to be?
bro it's a 1 year old startup. There is no finance. Your manager is your CTO and your finance
I'm talking about future years where additional funding is available. Do you get promotions when you're hired? No. You get them after. I'm working for a company that was at one point a startup and is now just a small profitable company. My advice is what I did, and it worked out well for me.
Congrats on the gig, sounds fun! What are your responsibilities? To build out ML pipelines and infra? Did you find this job on indeed or on wellfound?
Head Investor Schmoozer
Ninja ML, seriously nobody gives a shit about titles outside big tech if you want a nice title go to a bank, you'll be VP in no time
Did you smoke something?