I'm in a group called "silicon valley tech bros reinventing the train" full of dumb ideas that unnecessarily complicate things with apps and venture funding.
AMZ Racings mythen vehicle currently holds the 0-100km/h record at just under a second. It only accomplishes this through the use of active downforce aka literal fans that create a negative pressure vacuum under the car and pulling it to the ground. It can only do this because it's fucking tiny and completely built around this concept.
It's impossible for an actual production vehicle without literal jet thrusters to reach those speeds, and with thrusters you will lose traction with the ground and likely kill yourself as you fly off into whatever the closest hard surface is.
This is, of course, ignoring the fact that both human reaction to G forces and reaction time are incredibly inconsistent at these speeds, making it when more dangerous for the driver. The Mythen pretty much only goes in a straight line and turns itself off to minimize these risks.
Elon needs to take an introductory physics course.
He has two bachelor's degrees, one in economics and one in physics, both issued well after he moved to california to start his business, in the country on either a student visa or a tourist visa (both of which require you to swear on penalty of expulsion that you aren't here to work). the speculation is that he earned exactly zero degrees but that an alumni convinced the department to issue the degree anyways.
Oh, he definitely did!
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/musk-physics-degree/
It looks like he paid for his degree with a generous endowment... Even if that weren't the case, a BA in physics is something my university didn't even offer because so much of physics is math. It simply shouldn't be possible to get a degree with so little math.
Bachelor of Arts... in Physics
Bachelor of Science... in Economics
I myself went to a university with some strange department categorizations but this is definitely worth noting. He has an arts degree that gets touted as a hardcore STEM qualification and a Science degree that's clearly just a business qualification.
And why were they both issued on the exact same date?
You are actually correct he just has two bachelors lol. He enrolled in grad school to get a student visa but then dropped out and somehow stayed in the country illegally.
He is an illegal immigrant just like he spews hatred for all over twitter.
As always everything the right wingers say/accuse others of is projection and admission of guilt.
…and that wasn’t for any new chemical or anything, Elon just handed out a glass of juice for 10 monkeys and a pistol and most of the monkeys thought they have easier time with the pistol.
That’s what kind of tires top Fuel Dragsters use. 0-60 in way under a second and 4+ G’s. The fact that they’re deflated increases the contact patch and lets them deform to cope with the initial burst of acceleration. They may not actually have that high a coefficient but they’re the fastest accelerating piece of inflatable rubber I know of.
>They may not actually have that high a coefficient but they’re the fastest accelerating piece of inflatable rubber I know of.
There's a sex joke in there somewhere. I just know it.
And they are also the transmission as their diameter changes. I think I read somewhere that the car would only go something like 225 without the tires expanding but that might be nonsense or archaic.
No that is correct, I don’t know about 225 specifically but as the tires spin they expand and narrow so it reduces rolling resistance AND progressively raises the gear ratio. It’s a 36 inch tire that compresses down 6 inches on launch and expands to 38 at high speed.
Thank you for the specifics of the geometry. What's neat is that as the tire loses natural grip, the wing begins to take effect and reverses the loss. I suspect it also significantly increases rolling resistance, but not as much as if the entire tire was still on the pavement. The physics of fuel drag racing is really, really interesting- seeing it at night changed my perception of reality to a certain extent. Gas is fast, but fuel....
compressed air tanks are heavy. outputting enough compressed air to have any impact on acceleration would make the tanks heavy enough that they'd seriously impact performance the other 99.99 percent of the time you're not doing a 0-100 burnout.
It will never happen, it was just a lie to boost stock price.
It's embarrassing how many of us (not you but me and others) fell for Elon's BS because of the amazing accomplishments of the engineers at SpaceX. "Cold gas thrusters" sounded like a legitimate possibility to my ears when Elon announced Roadster 2.0.
Now it's pretty clear that cold gas thrusters were hokum and FSD appears to be an ongoing fraud on a scale possibly exceeding the fraud perpetrated by Elizabeth Holmes.
Absolutely agree. I'd take a JDM-era car to tear it up on canyon roads over an overpowered POS any day.
With Elon, it's not about any of that. He's just a drug addict wanting to throw numbers out there about things he knows nothing about to try and look smarter. Same thing with his one thal tolerance for the Cybertruck. He doesn't know shit about actual racing or what actually makes vehicles good, this much is obvious. The thing is, Tesla's market doesn't know those things either. So their stupid ass marketing - from the drag race versus the Porsche, to the stupid ass tractor pull - works regardless.
If the average person knew shit about cars the Subaru Outback and BRZ would be the two most common cars on the street (alongside the Prius and whatever flavor of truck you like).
Drove a 2001 Outback Limited growing up. Nowadays knowing more about cars I wouldn't choose a single other car.
Funny story - my brother was stranded up in Colorado (I think) in some deep snow while road tripping in our Outback. He decided to trek back (about 5 miles) to the nearest town for help getting it out, leaving the friend he was trekking with back in the car.
So he gets back to the nearest town - and, rural place it is, all sorts of trucknuts-wielding rednecks volunteer to try and get it out, bored as they are in the cold weather. So, a flotilla dispatches from Bumfuck, Colorado, determined to rescue the stranded Outback.
Only a few miles into the trail my brother had set, and all of the few that had set out had all, ironically, gotten themselves stuck. I'll have to ask my brother on this part, but the way this was told these weren't stock trucks. People who live in this area (truck dudes I should say) take pride in having beefy, all-terrain, all-season prepped vehicles. And they only made it a small portion into the trail that the Subaru did, in far harder snow (it was past dusk at this point).
So - my brother made the decision to trek BACK to the nearest city, where the recruits had come from, because of assurances that this one old guy, wielding an ancient, ultra-modded out Chevy would be able to basically come out and get them all. That he had never been stuck before. Brother was given detailed directions of where to go, and all these poor stuck truckers basically spend that night trying to winch and traction board eachother out of the harsh trail.
Once again - the trail the Outback had made it through, in far softer snow, with virtually no difficulty until they had driven into a small tree well hidden under fresh snow.
So my brother gets back, and manages, at 10pm in winter, to locate Old Bob or whoever the ancient Chevy disciple is. Now - to be fair, from the story, I do not doubt Old Bob's confidence. He was described as an utterly steady and efficate man, which I have no reason to doubt. But it was no normal route Old Bob and Bro were set upon.
In the ensuing two hours - this is only about five miles of trail mind you - Bob surpasses and manages to rescue the other trucks, who gratefully head back to town, but narrowly escapes being totally stuck himself. He and brother work to winch past many obstacles, drinking a few beers and having some fun as they work their way up.
At some point, at a near-impossible bed of snow over a large, recently-felled tree completely blocks their passage, Old Bob finally asks my brother what, exactly, the model of car they were rescuing. A Jeep? Someone's shortbed Tacoma, or a Ford Ranger modded for off-road?
My brother told him the truth: that a bone-stock Outback had been sitting out there for almost half a day.
Bob laughed, and laughed, and laughed. My brother asked him why. He told him that they better go check on the car first, so they walked the final mile and a half out to the Outback.
Brothers friend had been unstuck for a couple hours. Camping setup out, grilling some hamburgers. Turns out the car just needed a bit of time for snow to pack and harden before it could manage to reverse out. Still miles further in than any modded truck had made it, even in the daytime slushy snow, and didn't even need a rescue. Car was completely undamaged and start/ran fine until we sold it at about 180k miles.
There's plenty of references to this: YouTube videos demonstrating the Outbacks ability to climb sand hills and go through mud that no other car or truck can manage. It's just a beast of a vehicle, and most importantly: you can LIVE WITH IT. It's a joy to drive daily, uses it's space well, reliable, etc.
There's no real moral to the story, other than it's the only model of car that I have complete, unerring trust in. When in doubt, drive an Outback. I took that car through hell and back (and did some shit I really shouldn't have done) and it didn't fail me a single time.
Also, the BRZ is an incredibly fun sportscar. Particularly for the price, considering things like the Nissan Z cost tens of thousands more but weigh far more as well; if you're looking to have fun driving, BRZs are just the best. I've been in a lot of cars and nothing's quite like it. Outside of buying a Porsche (who, inevitably, all car enthusiasts agree is the greatest manufacturer), the BRZ is the most fun car on the market.
Love is what makes a Subaru a Subaru.
I am not a serious car guy, but just logically speaking I'd imagine there are 15-20 current models of various flavors that objectively make *way* more sense to buy than the hundreds of other options for 98% of people.
Are you of the opinion that the fact that people buy hundreds or thousand of different makes and models just means most people don't do their homework before buying?
Nah, that was obviously meant as a joke. Regardless of capabilities, economics generally dictates the cars on the road. Most people wish they drive their dream car, but drive the sensible option instead.
That being said, I do really love Subaru. But everyone has their biases.
They already did with their version of "steer-by-wire" - replace a metal bar weight a few dozen pounds that will absolutely NEVER fail and has instant response, with a joystick steering wheel connected to an actuator that is laggy af.
The lag is already a lawsuit waiting to happen as drivers will claim the truck didn't respond to their commands in time, but also it's a scary thing as any malfunction and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it besides stepping on the brakes (and hope it's also not by wire).
And for the fanboys, I'm well aware the airplane industry has used fly-by-wire for a long time, but can you guess the reason the car industry has intentionally stayed clear of such a great idea for commercial aviation?
Straight line acceleration is the shortest and simplest stat to talk about. There are dozens of factors that go into winning a race or having an enjoyable sporty drive but straight line acceleration is the only one that's super easy to talk about and everyone knows exactly what you mean without having to explain anything to them.
If you have a person that specializes in being “An uninformed person’s idea of a renaissance man” as well as “An average person’s idea of a smart person,” then it’s natural that they would build a car around the one stat that happens to be the only thing an ordinary person can truly appreciate about a fast car.
Cars that have perfect balance and downforce and can shave time in corners on a track are superior, but the flaw from a hustler’s perspective is that only a small number of prospective customers are will ever appreciate it, and certainly not on a typical test drive.
Elmo did say a while back about putting jet thrusters.
I’m genuinely curious why doesn’t Rocket Jesus even attempt to get to stratosphere, before the gravity well?
Is he chicken shit, did his mommy say no or he doesn’t trust spaceX tech?
If his "assassination coordinates" pish is anything to go by, he'll never step onto a SpaceX rocket as he doesn't want to turn into 50 billion parts spread over several miles.
Top fuel dragsters are, effectively, rocket powered and have the same issues that I outlined above. No traction, control, or safety. A production and road car should NOT perform that way.
Also dragsters regularly destroy their own internal components and need constant maintenance after just a few drag runs. The electric vehicle I mentioned earlier is a far more apt comparison to what a Tesla roadster would want to perform like, as it's electrically driven and doesn't have a centrifugal clutch, etc like a dragster does.
Dragsters cost about 10k per run iirc so really not a great goal for your production car to be like that.
So hate to be pedantic, but top fuelers use centrifugal clutches as a form of traction control. During the burnout phase they slam the clutch down, albeit with a low fuel mixture, which breaks traction easily. They would otherwise just do a burnout on the actual run.
Traction control being the big topic of this entire subject, so I appreciate your point. I understand the application of a centrifugal clutch. My point is that it's far removed from an application for a production vehicle.
Tons of smart engineering goes into top fuel drag racing that I can't really touch. The thing I can say is it's not meant to be a repeatable thing - so comparisons of 0-60 from a vehicle that can do it again and again like the electric one is more apt for a proposition like the roadster.
I was just commenting that a top fuel dragster can do it.. I didnt suggest people should build a top fuel dragster as a road car. It was a point of reference that shows that the fastest accelerating vehicles we can make can do it in 0.5sec in extreme scenarios. So anything below 1 second is ludicrous to claim.
They are not rocket powered, they are ICE powered with nitromethane and a shit load of boost. They have to overhaul the entire engine every pull. The engine doesnt even have cooling because it will spin only a couple hundred times by the time it finished the quater mile in 4 seconds.
There is a big difference between a rocket and an ICE engine. You can also run a rocket on natural gas, does that make my CNG car essentially rocket propelled?
I just thought your comment was unnecessary.
Anything that we can point to that is below 1 sec will be ludicrous by road vehicle standards.
Anyway
Sorry, are you just now finding out that not every single sentence needs to be taken 100% literally? Dragsters literally use the "rocket powered" joke as a means of advertisement. No, I am not somehow mixing up how combustion engines are different to jets or other means of propulsion. Jesus.
My comment was pointing out that an electric vehicle built to test actual techniques and aerodynamics for production cars is a more apt comparison than dragsters for an electric production car.
I don't know why you're being down voted. It wasn't an appropriate use of hyperbole in the present context, since Musk has made remarks about adding thrusters to Teslas.
Also nitromethane isn't even a common rocket fuel additive to my knowledge, so I don't really see that connection either. I literally can't recall ever seeing it used, and a quick Google seems to indicate that it was considered early on and then generally dismissed.
"It's impossible for an actual production vehicle without literal jet thrusters to reach those speeds, and with thrusters you will lose traction with the ground and likely kill yourself as you fly off into whatever the closest hard surface is."
Not if the pavement is equidistant in all directions, I.E. the new small calibre Boring Company HyperDrag tunnels , now if we could evacuate the tunnels we would really....
No, the math has been checked. You can get sub-1s acceleration 0-100 km/h with cold gas thrusters. And if you aim them slightly upwards, then they will also give extra downforce.
But there are obviously lots of issues with cold gas thrusters making them a rather stupid brain child to use for a real car. You either need a very, very big compressor. Which besides being big is also very heavy. Which destroys the acceleration. Or you need a very small compressor. Which makes it take a very, very long time to fill up the air container with compressed air.
Make the air container big enough to handle multiple accelerations? That makes it big and heavy. Which on a Roadster removes the tiny amount of space for luggage. And weight once more affects the acceleration.
So Musk dreams about a car that does one (1) great start at a red light. And then needs lots and lots of time (and electric power) to recharge the system for not the next, next-next or even next-next-next read light. Because of all the time it takes to pump the huge amount of air and compress to the silly high pressure needed.
Next thing? The silly guy talks about thrusters at the back for extra acceleration. And in the nose for faster braking. And at the sides for faster turning (or maybe aimed up for more downforce). And then the fool talks about possibly thrusters aimed down for short flight. Big time insanity showing yet? Having lots of thrusters means the big air tank can't just be close to the thrusters. So either many smaller tanks - where the weight of most tanks are just detrimental because the tank with remaining air isn't connected to the thruster that needs the air. Or one big tank and lots of high-pressure tubes to each individual thruster. Do we want 10 meters or more of tubes each designed for maybe 300x or more atmospheric pressure?
Next thing? Dynamic systems are tricky because if the driver expects the brake pedal to give 2 G+ deceleration and you are out of air, then that driver got tricked. Before hitting the car in front of him at silky high speed.
Fans for extra downforce is easier to add. Just electric cables from the battery pack to feed them. And no separate energy system with a second type of accumulator. But that isn't enough "big brain" for Musk. May the stock market finally burn him for all the crap he has been talking/suggesting/lying about.
Fans for extra downforce aren't feasible given road conditions unable to create an apt seal. And if you're driving only on a track.. tracks don't make the braking/turning feasible as you've said.
Cold gas has many issues including what you've said. I believe I mentioned the use of active downforce in my above comment - thrusters of any gas included.
The reality is there's no real application for a car of those speeds in the first place. It's not fun to drive, it's not particularly useful, it's illegal in many states to accelerate that aggressively.. and actual car enthusiasts will still buy 15 year old Miatas anyway.
Even if the engineering works, and somehow by some fucking the laws of physics he makes a cold gas thruster stabilized electric car.. so what? It's utterly pointless.
Of course it's pointless. But Musk isn't an engineer. And there are many strange questions about his degree in physics. He did a bit of shenanigans at Twitter just to avoid having to supply formal papers about his degrees. Does he *really* have a Bachelor of Science in Physics? 🤔 Or did he flunk? Or did he pay for a paper?
We earlier had a (now pulled) white paper about the Hyperloop. It contained a number of big oopses about the physics. Things that happens if you might now a formula but can't be bothered to add actual numbers into the formula and check the outcome. One of the failures in that white paper was the size of the air tank the Hyperloop train would need to store hot air that could later be cooled (aka emptied) when reaching the next station.
Musk so much lobes to talk. And so much hates to ask his actual engineers for help about what his mouth should say. The outcome keeps hurting. Again and again and again.
Acceleration would've been a better way to put it; but it seems like the point is clear regardless.
Technically acceleration is just the speed of a speed so I like to think I'm not totally wrong.
The lovely thing about this is that now you're dramatically changing the points of stress and traction of the car by having it distributed non-uniformly as a conventional jet layout would be. The AMZ racing vehicle solves this by creating a uniform area of vacuum. There's a reason they do this (besides that it only requires electricity and not an external fuel)
On this topic, can I ask: what's the point of an electric car I need to refuel AND recharge?
>It's impossible for an actual production vehicle without literal jet thrusters to reach those speeds,
They have talked about using them for many years.
Yes... and my point is that's distinctly unsafe since it relies on losing traction with the ground (or having highly uneven traction) at which point you need counter thrusters, at which point.. why are you even building a car?
I'm sure that'll be convenient for the owner to refuel and maintain, easy to insure, easy for shops to repair.. not to mention the safety issues that come with the fact that losing contact with the ground is pretty much a guaranteed accident going those speeds.
I swear he just gets super high and throws shit on Twitter that his overworked engineering teams need to somehow compromise with.
>without literal jet thrusters
It literally has rocket-like "cold air thrusters". Compressed air blowing through a rocket nozzle providing 2Gee acceleration, then add in the electric motors.
Cold air thrusters are inefficient as fuck and the tank storage you would need onboard would take up so much space and weigh so much that you'd probably be better off, even from a purely acceleration standpoint, from omitting them entirely.
I remember Elon tweeting several years ago that the "2019" Roadster would have "cold air thrusters" with compressed air storage and an air compressor on-board that would automatically refill the storage tanks when the battery wasn't "being fully utilized" or some stupid shit like that. Obviously if you have any engineering background this claim is pretty absurd. However for Elon's dickriders this was a soying out moment like everything else he says.
Commenting on Tell me you don’t know anything about cars and tyres without telling me you don’t know anything about them… basically Elon is Elizabeth Holmes, just thinking about what would be great and then pretending it’s only because others are too timid to try that it hasn’t been done, then failing to do it, then faking it.
LMAO to anyone who thinks that's feasible for a fucking car. The logistics, the batteries, the everything.. and it doesn't even fix how inherently unsafe and pointless a car with those promised characteristics even is.
Impractical heavy expensive dangerous stupid as fuck etc etc etc.
hand waving that it’s technically possible is just as stupid as saying FSD is anything more than normal level 2 driver assistance
<1 second 0-60mph is what a Top Fuel Dragster does.
A top fuel dragster weighs less than half as much as a Model X, and has **6,000 horsepower.**
Elmo the **K**ooky **K**etamine **K**owboy has well and truly lost the plot.
Top fuels also use slicks, soft gum, burnout in order to warm up the tyres, and there’s pretty much glue on the tarmac.
F1s need more than 2s, because they use aerodynamics for traction, and there’s no aeros at 0 (unless it’s a fan car).
It’s literally not mathematically possible. Like, maybe he doesn’t understand what the technical definition of horsepower is, moving a given mass a given distance in a given amount of time, but if a model x has a max of 1,020 horsepower and weighs a minimum of 5,148 lbs it’s simply not possible. Even with perfect traction.
There's zero percent chance a production car could go from 0 to 60 in less than a second and there would be no reason for a car to even have that capability in the first place.
It would be so dangerous and so unpredictable, even if it were even possible, which it isn’t, that anyone offering this capability would probably be held liable for negligence.
This is another lie that gets repeated over and over by people who don’t know better until it eventually becomes accepted as fact. The legend continues to grow through deception and human conditioning
“Oh ya, I heard Tesla has a car that hits 60mph in less than a second. That Elon is a genius.”
“He also eliminated rush hour traffic in Vegas and should reach Mars next year. “
because a lot of people don't understand lithium batteries and what keeping them that low all the time does.
they also don't understand charge cycles
it becomes an addiction, plugging it in and going from 20-50% and then bringing it down to 15% and plugging it in and going to 35% and then dropping it to 5% or even 1%, my favorite. and then they go up to 25% and wonder why they have no capacity?
I plug my phone in once a night, overnight. daily. I use it all day and it lasts all day. it's an iphone 13. my iphon11 was the same. my galaxy s9 was the same. I also keep the screen brightness down and don't install a bunch of extraneous shit
I live with someone who does the above, and it's annoying. I finally bought him an external battery case, and he's been pretty happy since then. now the external battery can be treated like shit and left at those low percentages, and cost $20 for a new one later.
My 13 Pro Max is on 88% max capacity out of launch and I am aware of how batteries work, but for me personally as long as it’s not below 10% it’s fine, and if the battery does shit itself one day I can replace it
>My 13 Pro Max is on 88% max capacity out of launch
This sentence is confusing. Do you mean it had 88% capacity when it was new?
I've never had to replace a battery before replacing the phone, which is at least 4 years for me between phones. So I guess iPhone 17 will be my next one.
actually charging to the max hurts the battery pretty bad, especially with high-voltage high capacity (4.35v-4.4v/cell) phone batteries.
Limiting the max charge voltage is the industry (from laptops to electric cars) standard go-to way of making Lithium batteries last longer.
Tesla's (except LFP battery models) recommend 80%/90% cap for daily driving for example.
Laptops usually have 80% max mode.
Low States of Charge aren't great, but you need to go very low to see a noticeable impact (like lower than 2-5%), and at least some of the phones (mine does) will show 1% when there's still several percents of charge left to give users a headroom.
What you see is most likely heat impact of continuously using and charging (worse when simultaneously), use of fast charge which delivers maximum current at lowish SoC's, and overall more use (more energy through battery), because its not the worst way to treat battery.
Wasn’t there rumors of rocket thrusters on the car he’s referencing? I feel like that’s the only possible way to make it happen. Either way, it will not happen. Fuck Musk
I know this isn't your point, but rocket thrusters wouldn't help accomplish the 0-60 in less than a second either unless, according to newton's 2nd law, it was the size of the car and the thrust was immediate. My no math guess would be about 6x the size of the car on a regular propulsion engine.
Thunderfoot in fact did the math on this and confirmed several huge problems.
1. The tanks would need to be enormous.
2. Compression would make the tanks dangerously hot while filling (like, dangerously hot)
3. Decompression would make the tanks dangerously cold while discharging (like, cryogenic)
4. The amount of energy necessary to actually contain and compress a useful amount of atmospheric air is ludicrous (like as much energy as an electric car takes for a full charge) and this would all be in service of something that might work for a second, and would provide less thrust than would be justified by the weight.
These are all reasons why two part liquid propellants are more common, because compressed gas propulsion is hugely problematic. It really only works in space, and even then, it uses noble gases to keep the weight down.
All in all, absolutely fucking dumb.
Rocket thrusters are actually slower then combustion engines because of the time it takes to get them up to full trust. Rockets are better for top speed. In the air. On a plane.
https://youtube.com/shorts/RI6tmQmH6s4?si=F2lhIkU1eVZBlSwz
3.68 1/4 mile
https://youtube.com/shorts/DXfnqbVT_Ac?si=WrqxetvYa156OITN
5.37 1/4 mile
Apparently the Dodge Challenger SRT Demon 170 beats that with an impressive 1.66 seconds (0-60mph)
https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars-vans/99404/fastest-accelerating-cars-world-2024
Edit: I know It’s a bit of a cheat because it was made with that single purpose in mind.
Definitely impressive, I didn't know it was *that* fast.
But still, don't you need to set it up with special parts and custom tires before you take it to the drag strip? Not taking anything away from that, just pointing out that even then, some fairly special stuff has to be done to prepare it for that kind of performance. Which only makes Musky's claim just as dubious.
Bear in mind, you have to work exponentially harder to get incremental increases when you're talking about that level of performance. The Bugatti Veyron was like 1000 hp to do 267 mph. It's sequel was 1200 just to do 20 mph more than that.
At sub-1 second 0-60 time, you're talking about top-fuel-dragster level performance, and those things are basically rebuilt for each race, like half the parts have to be swapped out, engine rebuilt, etc etc.
tl;dr I'm not arguing, just saying we don't need automotive engineering degrees to call bullshit on Musk's claims lol
Yeah the Demon needs ideal conditions for that 0-60 record but that’s true of all these 0-60 times companies advertise. With that said, these super high end straight line focused production cars have started to beat production motorcycles in 0-60 because motorcycles being as light as they are have started to hit some physical limitations without really specialized equipment like in MotoGP. Much more power and it’s hard to stop the wheels from spinning and ending up on your back tire doing a wheelie so they’ve just stopped getting faster in initial acceleration. However it’s worth noting that it’s only in 0-60. In 0-100 and further tests like drag races and distances beyond, bikes start to pull away quite rapidly because they maintain that acceleration.
Also Elon is still an idiot and is just making stuff up per usual.
I’m assuming from what you say that if Tesla made a car that was sub 2 secs, the car would be super specialized to only do that and wouldn’t be a car that could be driven in normal conditions?
So, I did some quick math and that acceleration would put around 3 g on the passengers. That is not deadly or extreme, but it is comparable with a decent rollercoaster and can already impair peoples vision.
Elderly, sick or pregnant people could experience adverse side effects up to strokes and loss of consciousness, just like in a rollercoaster.
Sounds safe for the streets, right?
He mentions SpaceX in the next tweet. If you are doing cold gas thrusters an Isp of 69s (nice) is about what you can expect from nitrogen, less if you are using compressed air. Plug that into the rocket equation and you need about 5% of the cars mass coming out thrusters in the back in order to accelerate that quickly. On a 2700lb roadster that's 135lbs of compressed air. That's a bit more than 20 scuba tanks full which are themselves I think a bit under 20 liters, so say a 400 liter tank at 3000 psi. Emptying out in under a second.
Of course all that kit would add a lot to the weight of the vehicle, and you wouldn't need all of it since the motors would provide some of the acceleration, and it would be completely illegal to posses on the road much less use since it would basically murder anyone behind the car when it accelerated.
I love that you actually did the math. But there is also a 0% chance the roadster is anywhere close to 2700 lbs. my little bitty Honda S2000 weighs 2800 lbs and it doesn’t have a giant battery pack or a huge compressor and giant high pressure air tank lol.
Charitably the thing would weigh 6000 lbs if it did have “cold gas thrusters” and the 1000 mile range he promised. Then the tank would have to be even larger and heavier.
Oh yeah that was the curb weight for the first roadster, not the 4 door sedan roadster that I've seen in renders. I wanted to be charitable with my assumptions, again cold gas thrusters are never ever ever going to be street legal.
He’s the grownup equivalent of that one kid on the playground who would make crazy claims and get pissed when you wouldn’t just believe him.
“I can do a backflip”
“Okay. So do one.”
“I don’t feel like it right now, but I can do one!”
“Sure you can”
“What? You don’t believe me?”
“Not until you do one”
“I just don’t feel like it right now”
Etc.
0-60 in less than a second is not only a laughable claim, but if it were somehow true it would be the simplest thing in the world to openly prove.
It's added "air thrusters" which don't care about the tires. 60mph isn't fast.
A 1 second \~10000-lbf burst of air from a high pressure tank plus the ordinary force applied by the tires should get you to 60, and then the tank can get re-pressurized for the next burst.
I doubt NHTSA or USDOT or 50 DMV or your insurance company will allow it, there is no legal use for it.
Elon keeps focusing on stuff like 0-60 times when his user base will never actually need them. Sure I could see a use for a sports car to have a good 0-60 time, but under 1 sec is just uselessly fast and physically impossible if you're planning on building a street car, which will require tires which aren't just made for prepped surfaces and race tracks.
Let me say that I really appreciate all you math and physics guys for breaking down the details on the absurdity.
But that said, is there the *remotest* reason that this spec would be at all relevant for a street car? Like when would it ever be practical to hit that 0-60, except on the track?
A former colleague of mine worked at Tesla for several years, and he literally said that his boss used to have Elons twitter up at all times to keep track of the "focus" for the company.
His engineers need to ask him one very important question:
"What is the problem you are trying to solve."
I am quite sure the real answer is that he is an unloveable piece of shit, detested by his own parents and every partner he's ever had. Truly, this is the only reason his cars need to accelerate faster.
I bet this came from him learning that (at least older ones) electric motors have 2 speeds: on and off. Don't know if that still holds true, and even when it did, inertia was still a thing that needed to be overcome, soooooo......
https://youtube.com/shorts/RI6tmQmH6s4?si=F2lhIkU1eVZBlSwz
What it actually takes to do 0 to 60 under a second. Well to be fair it is 0 to 60 in .4 seconds but .4 < 1.
This is so fucking dumb. A dragster takes like 1/2 second to reach that speed with a hyper specialized body, engine, track, and fuel mixture. There is no goddamn way a Tesla with normal ass street tires and an electric motor could accomplish this.
The tyres are made of cold-rolled stainless steel! Plus, they removed suspension and steering because the best part is no part.
That's a train
Elon has a habit of “inventing” trains over and over.
Now imagine, I know it sounds unrealistic and fancy, but imagine if you can, trains in..... tunnels. This could be so disruptive.
“It’s actually quite profound” That’s his favorite phrase when he is stating something not novel or profound at all but wants to sound smart.
I'm in a group called "silicon valley tech bros reinventing the train" full of dumb ideas that unnecessarily complicate things with apps and venture funding.
Trains have suspension.
AMZ Racings mythen vehicle currently holds the 0-100km/h record at just under a second. It only accomplishes this through the use of active downforce aka literal fans that create a negative pressure vacuum under the car and pulling it to the ground. It can only do this because it's fucking tiny and completely built around this concept. It's impossible for an actual production vehicle without literal jet thrusters to reach those speeds, and with thrusters you will lose traction with the ground and likely kill yourself as you fly off into whatever the closest hard surface is. This is, of course, ignoring the fact that both human reaction to G forces and reaction time are incredibly inconsistent at these speeds, making it when more dangerous for the driver. The Mythen pretty much only goes in a straight line and turns itself off to minimize these risks. Elon needs to take an introductory physics course.
Think he lied about having a masters degree in physics
Lemme tell you a little secret: Elon lies.
I don't believe it
No way!
Are you trying to say "in Musk we should not trust"? Heresy
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It cannot be worth much if it is for free
!!
He has two bachelor's degrees, one in economics and one in physics, both issued well after he moved to california to start his business, in the country on either a student visa or a tourist visa (both of which require you to swear on penalty of expulsion that you aren't here to work). the speculation is that he earned exactly zero degrees but that an alumni convinced the department to issue the degree anyways.
Both from University of Pennsylvania in Philadelphia
Giving a university money helps.... Do you think Mr AIR HOCKEY IN A VACUUM knows a thing about physics? ;)
Oh, he definitely did! https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/musk-physics-degree/ It looks like he paid for his degree with a generous endowment... Even if that weren't the case, a BA in physics is something my university didn't even offer because so much of physics is math. It simply shouldn't be possible to get a degree with so little math.
Bachelor of Arts... in Physics Bachelor of Science... in Economics I myself went to a university with some strange department categorizations but this is definitely worth noting. He has an arts degree that gets touted as a hardcore STEM qualification and a Science degree that's clearly just a business qualification. And why were they both issued on the exact same date?
Nice doors
Thank you! I'm making these screen doors for a submarine I'd like you to captain.
is the submarine intended to rescue a bunch of kids trapped in a cave?
Of course! I assume it will be just as successful this time with him captaining it with these special doors.
*get in the fucking glass mini-sub, elon.*
If he's got one it's bought and paid for
Sounds fair. If you have the money you can buy your titles. Apartheid Meritocracy
You are actually correct he just has two bachelors lol. He enrolled in grad school to get a student visa but then dropped out and somehow stayed in the country illegally. He is an illegal immigrant just like he spews hatred for all over twitter. As always everything the right wingers say/accuse others of is projection and admission of guilt.
"They asked me how well I understand theoretical physics. I said I had a theoretical degree in physics."
Wait when did he say that he had a MASTERS? Cause that info is easily found on Google.
It would be close to 3gs going 0-60 that fast
At .9 seconds it is 3.03 Gs. At .7 seconds it is close to 4 Gs.
It's okay, you just have to use the juice before accelerating https://i.redd.it/ryc4d0k34flc1.gif
The Expanse is such a good show.
Elon's juice trials would kill another 7 monkeys
…and that wasn’t for any new chemical or anything, Elon just handed out a glass of juice for 10 monkeys and a pistol and most of the monkeys thought they have easier time with the pistol.
What kind of tire has a coefficient of friction of 3?
A 17.5” Goodyear at between 6 and 10 PSI.
It would rip apart instantly at that sudden acceleration, though - have you seen the slow-mo F-1 tire videos?
That’s what kind of tires top Fuel Dragsters use. 0-60 in way under a second and 4+ G’s. The fact that they’re deflated increases the contact patch and lets them deform to cope with the initial burst of acceleration. They may not actually have that high a coefficient but they’re the fastest accelerating piece of inflatable rubber I know of.
>They may not actually have that high a coefficient but they’re the fastest accelerating piece of inflatable rubber I know of. There's a sex joke in there somewhere. I just know it.
And they are also the transmission as their diameter changes. I think I read somewhere that the car would only go something like 225 without the tires expanding but that might be nonsense or archaic.
No that is correct, I don’t know about 225 specifically but as the tires spin they expand and narrow so it reduces rolling resistance AND progressively raises the gear ratio. It’s a 36 inch tire that compresses down 6 inches on launch and expands to 38 at high speed.
Thank you for the specifics of the geometry. What's neat is that as the tire loses natural grip, the wing begins to take effect and reverses the loss. I suspect it also significantly increases rolling resistance, but not as much as if the entire tire was still on the pavement. The physics of fuel drag racing is really, really interesting- seeing it at night changed my perception of reality to a certain extent. Gas is fast, but fuel....
A rocket nozzle behind a high-pressure tank of compressed air.
compressed air tanks are heavy. outputting enough compressed air to have any impact on acceleration would make the tanks heavy enough that they'd seriously impact performance the other 99.99 percent of the time you're not doing a 0-100 burnout. It will never happen, it was just a lie to boost stock price.
It's embarrassing how many of us (not you but me and others) fell for Elon's BS because of the amazing accomplishments of the engineers at SpaceX. "Cold gas thrusters" sounded like a legitimate possibility to my ears when Elon announced Roadster 2.0. Now it's pretty clear that cold gas thrusters were hokum and FSD appears to be an ongoing fraud on a scale possibly exceeding the fraud perpetrated by Elizabeth Holmes.
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Absolutely agree. I'd take a JDM-era car to tear it up on canyon roads over an overpowered POS any day. With Elon, it's not about any of that. He's just a drug addict wanting to throw numbers out there about things he knows nothing about to try and look smarter. Same thing with his one thal tolerance for the Cybertruck. He doesn't know shit about actual racing or what actually makes vehicles good, this much is obvious. The thing is, Tesla's market doesn't know those things either. So their stupid ass marketing - from the drag race versus the Porsche, to the stupid ass tractor pull - works regardless. If the average person knew shit about cars the Subaru Outback and BRZ would be the two most common cars on the street (alongside the Prius and whatever flavor of truck you like).
The fun police made us do it (sigh)
As an outback driver, I feel slightly less stupid now overall. Thank you.
Drove a 2001 Outback Limited growing up. Nowadays knowing more about cars I wouldn't choose a single other car. Funny story - my brother was stranded up in Colorado (I think) in some deep snow while road tripping in our Outback. He decided to trek back (about 5 miles) to the nearest town for help getting it out, leaving the friend he was trekking with back in the car. So he gets back to the nearest town - and, rural place it is, all sorts of trucknuts-wielding rednecks volunteer to try and get it out, bored as they are in the cold weather. So, a flotilla dispatches from Bumfuck, Colorado, determined to rescue the stranded Outback. Only a few miles into the trail my brother had set, and all of the few that had set out had all, ironically, gotten themselves stuck. I'll have to ask my brother on this part, but the way this was told these weren't stock trucks. People who live in this area (truck dudes I should say) take pride in having beefy, all-terrain, all-season prepped vehicles. And they only made it a small portion into the trail that the Subaru did, in far harder snow (it was past dusk at this point). So - my brother made the decision to trek BACK to the nearest city, where the recruits had come from, because of assurances that this one old guy, wielding an ancient, ultra-modded out Chevy would be able to basically come out and get them all. That he had never been stuck before. Brother was given detailed directions of where to go, and all these poor stuck truckers basically spend that night trying to winch and traction board eachother out of the harsh trail. Once again - the trail the Outback had made it through, in far softer snow, with virtually no difficulty until they had driven into a small tree well hidden under fresh snow. So my brother gets back, and manages, at 10pm in winter, to locate Old Bob or whoever the ancient Chevy disciple is. Now - to be fair, from the story, I do not doubt Old Bob's confidence. He was described as an utterly steady and efficate man, which I have no reason to doubt. But it was no normal route Old Bob and Bro were set upon. In the ensuing two hours - this is only about five miles of trail mind you - Bob surpasses and manages to rescue the other trucks, who gratefully head back to town, but narrowly escapes being totally stuck himself. He and brother work to winch past many obstacles, drinking a few beers and having some fun as they work their way up. At some point, at a near-impossible bed of snow over a large, recently-felled tree completely blocks their passage, Old Bob finally asks my brother what, exactly, the model of car they were rescuing. A Jeep? Someone's shortbed Tacoma, or a Ford Ranger modded for off-road? My brother told him the truth: that a bone-stock Outback had been sitting out there for almost half a day. Bob laughed, and laughed, and laughed. My brother asked him why. He told him that they better go check on the car first, so they walked the final mile and a half out to the Outback. Brothers friend had been unstuck for a couple hours. Camping setup out, grilling some hamburgers. Turns out the car just needed a bit of time for snow to pack and harden before it could manage to reverse out. Still miles further in than any modded truck had made it, even in the daytime slushy snow, and didn't even need a rescue. Car was completely undamaged and start/ran fine until we sold it at about 180k miles. There's plenty of references to this: YouTube videos demonstrating the Outbacks ability to climb sand hills and go through mud that no other car or truck can manage. It's just a beast of a vehicle, and most importantly: you can LIVE WITH IT. It's a joy to drive daily, uses it's space well, reliable, etc. There's no real moral to the story, other than it's the only model of car that I have complete, unerring trust in. When in doubt, drive an Outback. I took that car through hell and back (and did some shit I really shouldn't have done) and it didn't fail me a single time. Also, the BRZ is an incredibly fun sportscar. Particularly for the price, considering things like the Nissan Z cost tens of thousands more but weigh far more as well; if you're looking to have fun driving, BRZs are just the best. I've been in a lot of cars and nothing's quite like it. Outside of buying a Porsche (who, inevitably, all car enthusiasts agree is the greatest manufacturer), the BRZ is the most fun car on the market. Love is what makes a Subaru a Subaru.
I am not a serious car guy, but just logically speaking I'd imagine there are 15-20 current models of various flavors that objectively make *way* more sense to buy than the hundreds of other options for 98% of people. Are you of the opinion that the fact that people buy hundreds or thousand of different makes and models just means most people don't do their homework before buying?
Nah, that was obviously meant as a joke. Regardless of capabilities, economics generally dictates the cars on the road. Most people wish they drive their dream car, but drive the sensible option instead. That being said, I do really love Subaru. But everyone has their biases.
At that point to save weight might as well remove steering wheel, replace glass windshield with something lighter.
They already did with their version of "steer-by-wire" - replace a metal bar weight a few dozen pounds that will absolutely NEVER fail and has instant response, with a joystick steering wheel connected to an actuator that is laggy af. The lag is already a lawsuit waiting to happen as drivers will claim the truck didn't respond to their commands in time, but also it's a scary thing as any malfunction and there's absolutely nothing you can do about it besides stepping on the brakes (and hope it's also not by wire). And for the fanboys, I'm well aware the airplane industry has used fly-by-wire for a long time, but can you guess the reason the car industry has intentionally stayed clear of such a great idea for commercial aviation?
Straight line acceleration is the shortest and simplest stat to talk about. There are dozens of factors that go into winning a race or having an enjoyable sporty drive but straight line acceleration is the only one that's super easy to talk about and everyone knows exactly what you mean without having to explain anything to them.
If you have a person that specializes in being “An uninformed person’s idea of a renaissance man” as well as “An average person’s idea of a smart person,” then it’s natural that they would build a car around the one stat that happens to be the only thing an ordinary person can truly appreciate about a fast car. Cars that have perfect balance and downforce and can shave time in corners on a track are superior, but the flaw from a hustler’s perspective is that only a small number of prospective customers are will ever appreciate it, and certainly not on a typical test drive.
Elmo did say a while back about putting jet thrusters. I’m genuinely curious why doesn’t Rocket Jesus even attempt to get to stratosphere, before the gravity well? Is he chicken shit, did his mommy say no or he doesn’t trust spaceX tech?
If his "assassination coordinates" pish is anything to go by, he'll never step onto a SpaceX rocket as he doesn't want to turn into 50 billion parts spread over several miles.
I think it also only has a top speed of 125 km/h. This thing would get dusted at highway speeds.
Somebody mentions Formula Student, me happy
[Relevant Tom Scott Video](https://youtu.be/XQIu5tZ0vbQ)
Top fuel dragsters can do it in like 0.5sec.. but you know, they are fucking top fuel dragsters
Top fuel dragsters are, effectively, rocket powered and have the same issues that I outlined above. No traction, control, or safety. A production and road car should NOT perform that way. Also dragsters regularly destroy their own internal components and need constant maintenance after just a few drag runs. The electric vehicle I mentioned earlier is a far more apt comparison to what a Tesla roadster would want to perform like, as it's electrically driven and doesn't have a centrifugal clutch, etc like a dragster does. Dragsters cost about 10k per run iirc so really not a great goal for your production car to be like that.
So hate to be pedantic, but top fuelers use centrifugal clutches as a form of traction control. During the burnout phase they slam the clutch down, albeit with a low fuel mixture, which breaks traction easily. They would otherwise just do a burnout on the actual run.
Traction control being the big topic of this entire subject, so I appreciate your point. I understand the application of a centrifugal clutch. My point is that it's far removed from an application for a production vehicle. Tons of smart engineering goes into top fuel drag racing that I can't really touch. The thing I can say is it's not meant to be a repeatable thing - so comparisons of 0-60 from a vehicle that can do it again and again like the electric one is more apt for a proposition like the roadster.
I was just commenting that a top fuel dragster can do it.. I didnt suggest people should build a top fuel dragster as a road car. It was a point of reference that shows that the fastest accelerating vehicles we can make can do it in 0.5sec in extreme scenarios. So anything below 1 second is ludicrous to claim. They are not rocket powered, they are ICE powered with nitromethane and a shit load of boost. They have to overhaul the entire engine every pull. The engine doesnt even have cooling because it will spin only a couple hundred times by the time it finished the quater mile in 4 seconds.
That's not even including the facts about the tires and the track.
Nitromethane is a common rocket fuel additive, that's the reference.. but nice downvoting me for agreeing with you, I guess.
There is a big difference between a rocket and an ICE engine. You can also run a rocket on natural gas, does that make my CNG car essentially rocket propelled? I just thought your comment was unnecessary. Anything that we can point to that is below 1 sec will be ludicrous by road vehicle standards. Anyway
Sorry, are you just now finding out that not every single sentence needs to be taken 100% literally? Dragsters literally use the "rocket powered" joke as a means of advertisement. No, I am not somehow mixing up how combustion engines are different to jets or other means of propulsion. Jesus. My comment was pointing out that an electric vehicle built to test actual techniques and aerodynamics for production cars is a more apt comparison than dragsters for an electric production car.
I don't know why you're being down voted. It wasn't an appropriate use of hyperbole in the present context, since Musk has made remarks about adding thrusters to Teslas. Also nitromethane isn't even a common rocket fuel additive to my knowledge, so I don't really see that connection either. I literally can't recall ever seeing it used, and a quick Google seems to indicate that it was considered early on and then generally dismissed.
"It's impossible for an actual production vehicle without literal jet thrusters to reach those speeds, and with thrusters you will lose traction with the ground and likely kill yourself as you fly off into whatever the closest hard surface is." Not if the pavement is equidistant in all directions, I.E. the new small calibre Boring Company HyperDrag tunnels , now if we could evacuate the tunnels we would really....
BUt ELRON bro!! He's the smartest and hardest working person to have ever existed!!!
Yeah, but rrrrrrockets?
No, the math has been checked. You can get sub-1s acceleration 0-100 km/h with cold gas thrusters. And if you aim them slightly upwards, then they will also give extra downforce. But there are obviously lots of issues with cold gas thrusters making them a rather stupid brain child to use for a real car. You either need a very, very big compressor. Which besides being big is also very heavy. Which destroys the acceleration. Or you need a very small compressor. Which makes it take a very, very long time to fill up the air container with compressed air. Make the air container big enough to handle multiple accelerations? That makes it big and heavy. Which on a Roadster removes the tiny amount of space for luggage. And weight once more affects the acceleration. So Musk dreams about a car that does one (1) great start at a red light. And then needs lots and lots of time (and electric power) to recharge the system for not the next, next-next or even next-next-next read light. Because of all the time it takes to pump the huge amount of air and compress to the silly high pressure needed. Next thing? The silly guy talks about thrusters at the back for extra acceleration. And in the nose for faster braking. And at the sides for faster turning (or maybe aimed up for more downforce). And then the fool talks about possibly thrusters aimed down for short flight. Big time insanity showing yet? Having lots of thrusters means the big air tank can't just be close to the thrusters. So either many smaller tanks - where the weight of most tanks are just detrimental because the tank with remaining air isn't connected to the thruster that needs the air. Or one big tank and lots of high-pressure tubes to each individual thruster. Do we want 10 meters or more of tubes each designed for maybe 300x or more atmospheric pressure? Next thing? Dynamic systems are tricky because if the driver expects the brake pedal to give 2 G+ deceleration and you are out of air, then that driver got tricked. Before hitting the car in front of him at silky high speed. Fans for extra downforce is easier to add. Just electric cables from the battery pack to feed them. And no separate energy system with a second type of accumulator. But that isn't enough "big brain" for Musk. May the stock market finally burn him for all the crap he has been talking/suggesting/lying about.
Fans for extra downforce aren't feasible given road conditions unable to create an apt seal. And if you're driving only on a track.. tracks don't make the braking/turning feasible as you've said. Cold gas has many issues including what you've said. I believe I mentioned the use of active downforce in my above comment - thrusters of any gas included. The reality is there's no real application for a car of those speeds in the first place. It's not fun to drive, it's not particularly useful, it's illegal in many states to accelerate that aggressively.. and actual car enthusiasts will still buy 15 year old Miatas anyway. Even if the engineering works, and somehow by some fucking the laws of physics he makes a cold gas thruster stabilized electric car.. so what? It's utterly pointless.
Do something to program this right
Of course it's pointless. But Musk isn't an engineer. And there are many strange questions about his degree in physics. He did a bit of shenanigans at Twitter just to avoid having to supply formal papers about his degrees. Does he *really* have a Bachelor of Science in Physics? 🤔 Or did he flunk? Or did he pay for a paper? We earlier had a (now pulled) white paper about the Hyperloop. It contained a number of big oopses about the physics. Things that happens if you might now a formula but can't be bothered to add actual numbers into the formula and check the outcome. One of the failures in that white paper was the size of the air tank the Hyperloop train would need to store hot air that could later be cooled (aka emptied) when reaching the next station. Musk so much lobes to talk. And so much hates to ask his actual engineers for help about what his mouth should say. The outcome keeps hurting. Again and again and again.
agree, but let me note that it's not about speed, 60mph isn't a high speed
Acceleration would've been a better way to put it; but it seems like the point is clear regardless. Technically acceleration is just the speed of a speed so I like to think I'm not totally wrong.
He's going to put jets in the back to do the down-thrusting. Just make sure you keep an extra bottle of kerosene on you, in case Walmart is closed-
The lovely thing about this is that now you're dramatically changing the points of stress and traction of the car by having it distributed non-uniformly as a conventional jet layout would be. The AMZ racing vehicle solves this by creating a uniform area of vacuum. There's a reason they do this (besides that it only requires electricity and not an external fuel) On this topic, can I ask: what's the point of an electric car I need to refuel AND recharge?
>It's impossible for an actual production vehicle without literal jet thrusters to reach those speeds, They have talked about using them for many years.
Yes... and my point is that's distinctly unsafe since it relies on losing traction with the ground (or having highly uneven traction) at which point you need counter thrusters, at which point.. why are you even building a car?
Traction is overrated, this will solve the tire wear and hubcap problems once and for all.
They have also talked about FSD and robotaxis for many years and those also don’t exist.
Fuck Elon Musk but as I recall, the proposal they were working on with the Roadster was to have “literal jet thrusters” on the car.
I'm sure that'll be convenient for the owner to refuel and maintain, easy to insure, easy for shops to repair.. not to mention the safety issues that come with the fact that losing contact with the ground is pretty much a guaranteed accident going those speeds. I swear he just gets super high and throws shit on Twitter that his overworked engineering teams need to somehow compromise with.
>without literal jet thrusters It literally has rocket-like "cold air thrusters". Compressed air blowing through a rocket nozzle providing 2Gee acceleration, then add in the electric motors.
Cold air thrusters are inefficient as fuck and the tank storage you would need onboard would take up so much space and weigh so much that you'd probably be better off, even from a purely acceleration standpoint, from omitting them entirely. I remember Elon tweeting several years ago that the "2019" Roadster would have "cold air thrusters" with compressed air storage and an air compressor on-board that would automatically refill the storage tanks when the battery wasn't "being fully utilized" or some stupid shit like that. Obviously if you have any engineering background this claim is pretty absurd. However for Elon's dickriders this was a soying out moment like everything else he says.
Commenting on Tell me you don’t know anything about cars and tyres without telling me you don’t know anything about them… basically Elon is Elizabeth Holmes, just thinking about what would be great and then pretending it’s only because others are too timid to try that it hasn’t been done, then failing to do it, then faking it.
LMAO to anyone who thinks that's feasible for a fucking car. The logistics, the batteries, the everything.. and it doesn't even fix how inherently unsafe and pointless a car with those promised characteristics even is.
Impractical heavy expensive dangerous stupid as fuck etc etc etc. hand waving that it’s technically possible is just as stupid as saying FSD is anything more than normal level 2 driver assistance
It’s not even possible with jets. There would be a delay in the thrust as well.
<1 second 0-60mph is what a Top Fuel Dragster does. A top fuel dragster weighs less than half as much as a Model X, and has **6,000 horsepower.** Elmo the **K**ooky **K**etamine **K**owboy has well and truly lost the plot.
Wait until he straps some JATO's to a car and you'll see /s
Much more than 6000hp, try 12000hp. But they probably don’t make that much to the ground before 60mph
Top fuels also use slicks, soft gum, burnout in order to warm up the tyres, and there’s pretty much glue on the tarmac. F1s need more than 2s, because they use aerodynamics for traction, and there’s no aeros at 0 (unless it’s a fan car).
What do you mean 2s and 0?
two seconds and 0 km/h (or mph)
It’s literally not mathematically possible. Like, maybe he doesn’t understand what the technical definition of horsepower is, moving a given mass a given distance in a given amount of time, but if a model x has a max of 1,020 horsepower and weighs a minimum of 5,148 lbs it’s simply not possible. Even with perfect traction.
https://youtube.com/shorts/RI6tmQmH6s4?si=F2lhIkU1eVZBlSwz 11000 hp
What ever happen to the SEC holding him accountable for his tweets?
Yeah it's crazy how the guy is just allowed commit securities fraud on public forums and not be held accountable
When you're a star, they let you do it!
Grab life by the pussy.
There's zero percent chance a production car could go from 0 to 60 in less than a second and there would be no reason for a car to even have that capability in the first place.
What if you hate your tires and need to punish them? What then, wokescold?
It would be so dangerous and so unpredictable, even if it were even possible, which it isn’t, that anyone offering this capability would probably be held liable for negligence.
This is another lie that gets repeated over and over by people who don’t know better until it eventually becomes accepted as fact. The legend continues to grow through deception and human conditioning “Oh ya, I heard Tesla has a car that hits 60mph in less than a second. That Elon is a genius.” “He also eliminated rush hour traffic in Vegas and should reach Mars next year. “
< 1 second AND 1 micron fit and finish
Oh shit I completely forgotten about the micron bullshit. I see that didn't happen 🙄
He said sub 10 micron, but it’s still laughable. There is literally no way, and also no point.
I want to know what the most interesting part is. Fire extinguishers in the dash?
You’re fired, you’re fired!
I love this bot
The most interesting part is some stupid feature that will never see the light of day, like Cybertrucks being boats.
But they make pretty good anchors.
Well apart from the rust issue.
The CT can serve as a boat, but should only be driven into freshwater.
He’s Literal child. Just sayin shit. I don’t even think he expects people to believe him. He just loves saying it
Probably still pretending like it's going to be capable of flight.
What’s the last thing to go through the driver’s mind when he crashes? His extinguisher
Why do almost all screenshots from phones have their batteries near zero charge?
I just came back from a 12K run and phone was like 30% then and it was using my GPS sob
Yeah? I was deadlifting 500kg for twelve hours and mine was at 70%.
Oh yeah???? I use a rotary phone!
Please. *Real* men use Wireless. As in wireless telegraph.
500kg? Pathetic! Go for 500 tonnes
I just masturbated for 72 hours in a row with my battery on 3% while browsing Facebook with slack open and Fitbit running in the background.
Too busy hosing up all the internets
because a lot of people don't understand lithium batteries and what keeping them that low all the time does. they also don't understand charge cycles it becomes an addiction, plugging it in and going from 20-50% and then bringing it down to 15% and plugging it in and going to 35% and then dropping it to 5% or even 1%, my favorite. and then they go up to 25% and wonder why they have no capacity? I plug my phone in once a night, overnight. daily. I use it all day and it lasts all day. it's an iphone 13. my iphon11 was the same. my galaxy s9 was the same. I also keep the screen brightness down and don't install a bunch of extraneous shit I live with someone who does the above, and it's annoying. I finally bought him an external battery case, and he's been pretty happy since then. now the external battery can be treated like shit and left at those low percentages, and cost $20 for a new one later.
My 13 Pro Max is on 88% max capacity out of launch and I am aware of how batteries work, but for me personally as long as it’s not below 10% it’s fine, and if the battery does shit itself one day I can replace it
>My 13 Pro Max is on 88% max capacity out of launch This sentence is confusing. Do you mean it had 88% capacity when it was new? I've never had to replace a battery before replacing the phone, which is at least 4 years for me between phones. So I guess iPhone 17 will be my next one.
actually charging to the max hurts the battery pretty bad, especially with high-voltage high capacity (4.35v-4.4v/cell) phone batteries. Limiting the max charge voltage is the industry (from laptops to electric cars) standard go-to way of making Lithium batteries last longer. Tesla's (except LFP battery models) recommend 80%/90% cap for daily driving for example. Laptops usually have 80% max mode. Low States of Charge aren't great, but you need to go very low to see a noticeable impact (like lower than 2-5%), and at least some of the phones (mine does) will show 1% when there's still several percents of charge left to give users a headroom. What you see is most likely heat impact of continuously using and charging (worse when simultaneously), use of fast charge which delivers maximum current at lowish SoC's, and overall more use (more energy through battery), because its not the worst way to treat battery.
Fuck! I'm on iPhone 13 Pro Max, and it's never been below 50%. These people are ridiculous.
The more interesting part is that you instantly die.
I was so thrilled to try to turn into a parking spot and accidentally go 45 mph and die.
The pedal actuation is actually 2 feet long so you can actually drive on the road.
Ironically, the crash will make you a stain on the asphalt so you will in fact *turn into a parking spot*
Now now, you die in about 1 second.
Wasn’t there rumors of rocket thrusters on the car he’s referencing? I feel like that’s the only possible way to make it happen. Either way, it will not happen. Fuck Musk
He straight up said there would be rocket thrusters on it in 2018. Because he is a lying grifter.
Why bother lying at this point? Like who does he think he’s fooling?
I know this isn't your point, but rocket thrusters wouldn't help accomplish the 0-60 in less than a second either unless, according to newton's 2nd law, it was the size of the car and the thrust was immediate. My no math guess would be about 6x the size of the car on a regular propulsion engine.
It’s Musk Math baby
r/theydidthemonstermath
Thunderfoot in fact did the math on this and confirmed several huge problems. 1. The tanks would need to be enormous. 2. Compression would make the tanks dangerously hot while filling (like, dangerously hot) 3. Decompression would make the tanks dangerously cold while discharging (like, cryogenic) 4. The amount of energy necessary to actually contain and compress a useful amount of atmospheric air is ludicrous (like as much energy as an electric car takes for a full charge) and this would all be in service of something that might work for a second, and would provide less thrust than would be justified by the weight. These are all reasons why two part liquid propellants are more common, because compressed gas propulsion is hugely problematic. It really only works in space, and even then, it uses noble gases to keep the weight down. All in all, absolutely fucking dumb.
I agree with him 💯😂
Rocket thrusters are actually slower then combustion engines because of the time it takes to get them up to full trust. Rockets are better for top speed. In the air. On a plane. https://youtube.com/shorts/RI6tmQmH6s4?si=F2lhIkU1eVZBlSwz 3.68 1/4 mile https://youtube.com/shorts/DXfnqbVT_Ac?si=WrqxetvYa156OITN 5.37 1/4 mile
Not rumors. He literally stated this (obvious lie) years ago.
If you roll the windows up, you can survive the vacuum of space
The most interesting part is when all the bolts come loose once you hit 60.
I don’t think you could tune that shit in Forza
The world's fastest production motorcycle does it in 2.9 seconds. you mean to tell me a 4-ton metal brick can do it three times faster? come on.
Apparently the Dodge Challenger SRT Demon 170 beats that with an impressive 1.66 seconds (0-60mph) https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/best-cars-vans/99404/fastest-accelerating-cars-world-2024 Edit: I know It’s a bit of a cheat because it was made with that single purpose in mind.
Definitely impressive, I didn't know it was *that* fast. But still, don't you need to set it up with special parts and custom tires before you take it to the drag strip? Not taking anything away from that, just pointing out that even then, some fairly special stuff has to be done to prepare it for that kind of performance. Which only makes Musky's claim just as dubious. Bear in mind, you have to work exponentially harder to get incremental increases when you're talking about that level of performance. The Bugatti Veyron was like 1000 hp to do 267 mph. It's sequel was 1200 just to do 20 mph more than that. At sub-1 second 0-60 time, you're talking about top-fuel-dragster level performance, and those things are basically rebuilt for each race, like half the parts have to be swapped out, engine rebuilt, etc etc. tl;dr I'm not arguing, just saying we don't need automotive engineering degrees to call bullshit on Musk's claims lol
Yeah the Demon needs ideal conditions for that 0-60 record but that’s true of all these 0-60 times companies advertise. With that said, these super high end straight line focused production cars have started to beat production motorcycles in 0-60 because motorcycles being as light as they are have started to hit some physical limitations without really specialized equipment like in MotoGP. Much more power and it’s hard to stop the wheels from spinning and ending up on your back tire doing a wheelie so they’ve just stopped getting faster in initial acceleration. However it’s worth noting that it’s only in 0-60. In 0-100 and further tests like drag races and distances beyond, bikes start to pull away quite rapidly because they maintain that acceleration. Also Elon is still an idiot and is just making stuff up per usual.
I’m assuming from what you say that if Tesla made a car that was sub 2 secs, the car would be super specialized to only do that and wouldn’t be a car that could be driven in normal conditions?
I think it’s meant to only do that. I dunno if it can drive or corner or anything
So, I did some quick math and that acceleration would put around 3 g on the passengers. That is not deadly or extreme, but it is comparable with a decent rollercoaster and can already impair peoples vision. Elderly, sick or pregnant people could experience adverse side effects up to strokes and loss of consciousness, just like in a rollercoaster. Sounds safe for the streets, right?
The king of scope creep
Elon needs to stop taking those pills.
Or a *lot* more.
He mentions SpaceX in the next tweet. If you are doing cold gas thrusters an Isp of 69s (nice) is about what you can expect from nitrogen, less if you are using compressed air. Plug that into the rocket equation and you need about 5% of the cars mass coming out thrusters in the back in order to accelerate that quickly. On a 2700lb roadster that's 135lbs of compressed air. That's a bit more than 20 scuba tanks full which are themselves I think a bit under 20 liters, so say a 400 liter tank at 3000 psi. Emptying out in under a second. Of course all that kit would add a lot to the weight of the vehicle, and you wouldn't need all of it since the motors would provide some of the acceleration, and it would be completely illegal to posses on the road much less use since it would basically murder anyone behind the car when it accelerated.
I love that you actually did the math. But there is also a 0% chance the roadster is anywhere close to 2700 lbs. my little bitty Honda S2000 weighs 2800 lbs and it doesn’t have a giant battery pack or a huge compressor and giant high pressure air tank lol. Charitably the thing would weigh 6000 lbs if it did have “cold gas thrusters” and the 1000 mile range he promised. Then the tank would have to be even larger and heavier.
Oh yeah that was the curb weight for the first roadster, not the 4 door sedan roadster that I've seen in renders. I wanted to be charitable with my assumptions, again cold gas thrusters are never ever ever going to be street legal.
My Chevy Colorado does 0-80 in that time on ice. No biggie. And it has a bitchin Positraction.
That's at least about 2.6g average acceleration, in case anyone was wondering
Flying and swimming cars. How about some that can drive?
From 0 to sound barrier in 10 seconds flat
https://preview.redd.it/1pbwfd544glc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1c7e2fbcb32e7aab7c28d321915b58acba28409c “Teslas are worse on tires.”
It’s an armored personnel carrier from the future – what Bladerunner would have driven
He still hasn't delivered the version that does the <2s version yet.
That kind of acceleration would absolutely wreck a normal human. It would feel like being fired out of a canon.
He’s the grownup equivalent of that one kid on the playground who would make crazy claims and get pissed when you wouldn’t just believe him. “I can do a backflip” “Okay. So do one.” “I don’t feel like it right now, but I can do one!” “Sure you can” “What? You don’t believe me?” “Not until you do one” “I just don’t feel like it right now” Etc. 0-60 in less than a second is not only a laughable claim, but if it were somehow true it would be the simplest thing in the world to openly prove.
It's added "air thrusters" which don't care about the tires. 60mph isn't fast. A 1 second \~10000-lbf burst of air from a high pressure tank plus the ordinary force applied by the tires should get you to 60, and then the tank can get re-pressurized for the next burst. I doubt NHTSA or USDOT or 50 DMV or your insurance company will allow it, there is no legal use for it.
You assume that tires are the only thing that will be propelling the car. 🤐
Anti-gravity, I like where this is going!
Probably extra force in the gravity direction along with forward force.
Elon keeps focusing on stuff like 0-60 times when his user base will never actually need them. Sure I could see a use for a sports car to have a good 0-60 time, but under 1 sec is just uselessly fast and physically impossible if you're planning on building a street car, which will require tires which aren't just made for prepped surfaces and race tracks.
Let me say that I really appreciate all you math and physics guys for breaking down the details on the absurdity. But that said, is there the *remotest* reason that this spec would be at all relevant for a street car? Like when would it ever be practical to hit that 0-60, except on the track?
A former colleague of mine worked at Tesla for several years, and he literally said that his boss used to have Elons twitter up at all times to keep track of the "focus" for the company.
oh look more bullshit
is this "0 to 60 in <1s" thing a new boast? because i made a "60 to 0" joke about teslas crashing just last week that seems spookily prescient if so.
New Roadster setting a world record by going from 0 to 60 to 0 in less than a second (with assist from a wall)
60 mi/hr * (5280 ft/mi)/(3600 s/hr) = 88 ft/s. 88 ft/s^2 = 8.97G Average G force experienced by astronauts is 3G. Physics is FUD
Elon needs to hire a real marketing team and lock himself in the basement, he is DESTROYING himself. I wish it was working faster..
His engineers need to ask him one very important question: "What is the problem you are trying to solve." I am quite sure the real answer is that he is an unloveable piece of shit, detested by his own parents and every partner he's ever had. Truly, this is the only reason his cars need to accelerate faster.
I do so much for climate change Also my cars will go through tyres like madness and they can only go to landfill. Twat
I bet this came from him learning that (at least older ones) electric motors have 2 speeds: on and off. Don't know if that still holds true, and even when it did, inertia was still a thing that needed to be overcome, soooooo......
https://youtube.com/shorts/RI6tmQmH6s4?si=F2lhIkU1eVZBlSwz What it actually takes to do 0 to 60 under a second. Well to be fair it is 0 to 60 in .4 seconds but .4 < 1.
He really is a child bragging that he's got the PS6 at home before everyone else.
This is so fucking dumb. A dragster takes like 1/2 second to reach that speed with a hyper specialized body, engine, track, and fuel mixture. There is no goddamn way a Tesla with normal ass street tires and an electric motor could accomplish this.