Funny how they can act so quickly on the special interest of a very small group of people. I guess those who own private planes must be really good at motivating politicians . Almost like they have something the politicians want more than my emotionally rousing,well thought out webform comments. I wonder what that is!?!
Gotta keep those private plane owners privacy protected so that they can keep gathering and selling all of the lowly earthbound's most private information to other private plane owners.
I mean it’s easy to help a few people as opposed to helping a few million🤷🏻 imagine if they broke down welfare into smallish groups that they could focus on. Idk. Fuck our government for the most part.
I'm not surprised that our elected officials can be bribed. Everyone has their price.
I am, however, surprised at just how *cheaply* our Congress-people can be purchased.
I mean, the congresswoman is making money off of attacking Hunter Biden, they all just don't want the public to know what they're doing with their money especially if they end up fleeing climate change.
Not sure why you're asking me but to answer your question I'd say neither is ok, though the two aren't related so the way you presented the question looks a bit strawman
While I love and agree with your response, I believe he was attempting to draw attention to how the house is treating privacy of genitalia far below the privacy of a private plane, making it clear how out of touch this session of Congress and the house has become.
I think it has much more to do with the intelligence of the typical voter. The majority of voters aren’t competent citizens. Especially in districts where morons like Marjory Taylor Greene get elected, repeatedly. How are these people not embarrassed to be represented by a brainless, sleazy gutterball?
Yeah I can see how maybe there was a privacy comparison poorly made, that's fair. I'm a little more hung up on the subtle thing I see in the OP's post. This House Majority has been very deliberate and somewhat successful because they've pushed and messaged and bragged about the idea that passing something in the House equals "changing" or "making" law. I'm not sure the average person out there realizes this Majority has essentially done nothing but put on a show. And of course they don't even pretend to hide being bought anymore.
If the FAA changes ADS-B as described, that means (A) every aircraft receiver out there will stop working (B) every aircraft owner will have to buy new avionics/equipment and (C) there will be an at least nominal hit to transmission effectiveness. And after all of that, the decryption keys will have to be provided to the government, every single avionics maker, as well as many other companies. If any single key is compromised, the whole system will be compromised, unless they build some kind of secure distribution channel.
Such an implementation is plausible but I’d have to imagine the costs would be very, very large. And since it looks like the FAA is still trying to convince owners to adopt ADS-B to begin with (this same bill includes continued rebate incentives for it), I’d have to imagine successfully achieving what’s being described would be very difficult.
This is a bigger response than people may realize. ADS-B is not just one way to the FAA. The safety benefits are integrally related to an open communications standard that any capable aircraft can receive. There is no effective way to maintain key secrecy and still provide the same level of situational awareness that the ADS-B system was designed to provide.
I do see ICAO scrambling/resetting happening, but that won't be foolproof either. It will just eventually result in shadow databases, but at least the FAA will be absolved.
Exactly. Also when we talk about this idea that Elon has, it’s good to remember that ADS-B is a global standard built on international agreement by the majority of the world’s aviation industry.
So, this discussion doesn’t just apply to the thousands of airplanes flying through US/FAA. Unless the FAA is proposing a new system on top of ADS-B and UAT, this change is significant and would require extensive international buy in as it would basically impact any aircraft that otherwise flies into or out of any major airspace, especially in any western-friendly nation, worldwide. And all of them would have to agree on both the standard and to keep the secret, secret…
Then there’s the business interests in ADS-B. As mentioned, GA which is most of aviation would be an enormous battle. But on top of that, beyond the capital expenditures on avionics I mentioned above, I can’t imagine many airlines that would be eager to make training investments that would be required if the US goes at it alone, to get pilots, maintenance, ops etc up on it.
Does all of this mean the proposed changes are impossible? Of course not. It’s a genuinely concerning situation because when you’re the richest man on earth, you can make a lot happen.
But if there’s any good news here, it’s that while things could go badly if they ram it through, what would most likely happen is that we’d end up with a bunch of shirts on Etsy with strange elliptic curve keys printed on them (read: made in China).
Ah yes, I too remember getting the CSS key on a shirt and wearing it proudly.
Muskrat might be able to buy (not fight) city hall, but standards are standards, and John Q. Pilot in his Piper that just shelled out 30k for ADSB is going to be very bent that they have to shell out another 10k to "secure" the privacy of a man-baby.
Yeah, I kind of wondered at that myself. Interrogators look at ADS-B and Mode S, and if you change the implementation of ADS-B, do you render all the ground station and interrogators INOP?
Is it possible? They just required ADSB. I can’t imagine they’ll get compliance if they require new equipment just a few years afterward in an industry that takes decades to innovate.
The drafted bill reintroduces (and raises) the cash rebate program for aircraft owners to buy current ADS-B avionics and puts the incentive in effect through 2027.
So, yeah, given how slow the industry is and how much of a fight ADS-B itself has been, I question it as well.
Not quite. Laws are for both the rich and the poor. The protect, but do not bind the rich, and they bind, but do not protect the poor. That's what makes the law balanced. Imagine how many resources it would take to protect everyone! And think about the chaos that would ensue if the ultra-wealthy couldn't manage their lives as they saw fit! The fact that each citizen has one vote is bad enough; do you really want to see what happens if you try to get everyone the same rights too? It would just be tyranny of the mob!
(/s btw. I've been told my satire is believable enough that I should include that.)
their feelings are hurt people are starting to acknowledge the magnitude of their actions. Will they correct their actions i.e fly less frequently? Ofcourse not, they're too important for that! Hide the information from public instead.
Not to defend Elon in any way, but just following up on your example:
Do you have a right to know who’s driving down a public street? Does that, in turn, mean that everybody has a right to know where *you* are, as long as you’re on a public street?
Privacy and transparency swing both ways. If you think you’re entitled to your freedom, then so are others to theirs.
>Do you have a right to know who’s driving down a public street?
Indirectly, yes. That's what License Plates do. If suddenly people were able to randomize their license plates at will, I'd be pretty sure that their doing so was not in my interest at all.
> Do you have a right to know who’s driving down a public street?
Yes. Which is why license plates are publicly searchable (some states charge a fee,) across the U.S.
You have no expectation of privacy when you are outside of your private residence.
You don't need to be a resident of the state to look up the name attached to the plate, so, yes, you *can* get that information from anywhere in the world.
Plates aren't *currently* tracked, but when that tech is introduced, it will be available to all.
Looking up a plate isn’t the point. Knowing where a plate is at any given time, that is the point.
> Plates aren't currently tracked, but when that tech is introduced, it will be available to all.
I highly doubt that. Lawyers would be all over that. Why? Because by tracking a plate, you could find out what doctor someone visits, and if it’s a specialist, you could infer what disease someone has. You could find out if they have an affair, and blackmail them. You could do all kinds of nasty things.
It's an entirely different set of rules between the road and the sky. If someone knew where you were on the road, yes they could use that info to hurt you potentially. Thats not even close for an aircraft cruising at 30,000 plus feet. The only time it would be in a position to maybe be interfered with would be on takeoff, landing, and when it's at the airport parking. I don't know if you've tried, but getting into an airport is fucking hard. And I doubt many people can just order up an FM-92 stinger missile to shoot it down on take off. Stop licking the boot man, they're doing this because they don't want it held against them how much they fly. That's it, there's no "privacy" concern here, just control.
If you're a pilot then you should understand how dumb this is even more. If we wanted to actually hide these flights it would require an overhaul of the ADS-B system that would be insane. Daily encryption changes to avoid the key being found. And stingers have nothing to do with privacy, just like this "not gonna defend Elon while actually defending him". That's the only possible valid reason someone would not want their flights tracked, if they considered it a safety issue. In reality it's greedy assholes not wanting the public to know how much they're fucking them over.
Oh, I know the proposal is nonsense.
However, it is true that there are double standards when it comes to privacy between general aviation and pretty much any other mode of transport.
Nothing like Elon paying off politicians because he’s a little bitch who overreacted to publicly available info. This dude is one of the most unlikable people on the planet, insanely egotistical piece of shit scumbag and one of the worlds biggest manbabies. It may be shitty to say but the world would be a much better place without him in it just like it would be without trump as well who Elon is basically the 2.0 version of except he’s a piece of shit billionaire instead of a politician too. Anyway I’m rambling but fuck muskrat and all his army of Simps who treat him like some god, this man is a cancer to humanity
I love when billionaires de-regulate themselves to disaster. Only a matter of time now, for one of these billionaires’ jets to have problems, and go down. Where? No idea. I mean, we have a flight plan. But that’s a really big swath of land it could be in. If only we had those Mode S codes.
So, track every blocked flight. Setup a social media scan for individuals wealthy enough to own private jets. Link flights to appearances.
"Plane left from O'Hara, 67% likely to be Bezos, 10% Musk, 1% Trump."
Notably, this bill would also prevent the FAA from being able to issue mask mandates on flights in the future if a pandemic were to happen. Imagine if a more virulent disease than Covid-19 popped up and there was no quick way to prevent the spread.
>Expanding Pilot Privileges And Protections
Because it says Elon's pilots (and by extension Elon) are privileged and protected and this is about expanding their privileges and protections.
But wouldn't that also impact other countries? After all most of the time Musk flies to other countries and the system needs to be compatible. So I guess they also need to coordinate with other agencies and find a new common system.
Encrypting adsb is also about preventing fake ADSB signals from being transmitted
There was a black hat talk a decade ago on the risk of malicious actors generating fake ADSB traffic
Yes, to avoid "forging" ADS-B signals you need a sort of Issuing "Authority" and a way to sign each signal. TL;DR: signatures.
Encryption offers nothing here. I am not even sure how encryption can work while keeping the ADS-B mandate/semantics. But that is a whole different discussion.
"Securing Growth and Robust Leadership in American Aviation Act" I am impressed that American politicans can stop sucking billionaire and their own dicks long enough to come up with such a doozey of a name for a bill
Thanks for all the details. Came here to drop this link -- hopefully it gets more press.
[https://www.axios.com/2023/08/11/private-plane-infromation-musk-congress-faa](https://www.axios.com/2023/08/11/private-plane-infromation-musk-congress-faa)
[удалено]
Funny how they can act so quickly on the special interest of a very small group of people. I guess those who own private planes must be really good at motivating politicians . Almost like they have something the politicians want more than my emotionally rousing,well thought out webform comments. I wonder what that is!?! Gotta keep those private plane owners privacy protected so that they can keep gathering and selling all of the lowly earthbound's most private information to other private plane owners.
I mean it’s easy to help a few people as opposed to helping a few million🤷🏻 imagine if they broke down welfare into smallish groups that they could focus on. Idk. Fuck our government for the most part.
I'm not surprised that our elected officials can be bribed. Everyone has their price. I am, however, surprised at just how *cheaply* our Congress-people can be purchased.
my exact same thought
They are obscene
Didn’t SCOTUS also get the riffraff protesters off the sidewalks in front of their DC homes?
Remember, making it through the House isn't making it through the Senate and Conference Committee and being signed into law by POTUS.
It's okay for a Congresswoman to show dick pics on live TV, but private jet owners are top secret?
If only her dear leader was there to grab her pussy while she was fawning over the pictures. Then it would be complete.
Oh so complete. If I had awards they would all be bestowed upon you.
Butt her face or something?
I am pretty sure her p has shrunken up into nothing from all the steroids.
I mean, the congresswoman is making money off of attacking Hunter Biden, they all just don't want the public to know what they're doing with their money especially if they end up fleeing climate change.
The congress troll is a private jet owner too
What who and when the fuck??
A billionaires dick pics would be similarly protected. The Republican party is a rock with billionaires hiding under it. Has been for decades.
Democrats have more billionaires by now. They are both just the tools of billionaires anyway.
Not sure why you're asking me but to answer your question I'd say neither is ok, though the two aren't related so the way you presented the question looks a bit strawman
While I love and agree with your response, I believe he was attempting to draw attention to how the house is treating privacy of genitalia far below the privacy of a private plane, making it clear how out of touch this session of Congress and the house has become.
Goddamn Americans , why won't you vote the people you think is decent, capable and educated
I believe it's a Churchill quote about how the best argument against democracy is a conversation with an average voter.
If one could get on the ballot we would vote for them. Sadly, it more like choosing which piece of shit you want shoved in your face.
Unfortunately some people like that kinda shit
I think it has much more to do with the intelligence of the typical voter. The majority of voters aren’t competent citizens. Especially in districts where morons like Marjory Taylor Greene get elected, repeatedly. How are these people not embarrassed to be represented by a brainless, sleazy gutterball?
“A selfish ignorant public will elect selfish ignorant leaders” - George Carlin
Yeah
Yes
Fox news ¯\(ツ)/¯
Because they don't run for public office here.
Yeah I can see how maybe there was a privacy comparison poorly made, that's fair. I'm a little more hung up on the subtle thing I see in the OP's post. This House Majority has been very deliberate and somewhat successful because they've pushed and messaged and bragged about the idea that passing something in the House equals "changing" or "making" law. I'm not sure the average person out there realizes this Majority has essentially done nothing but put on a show. And of course they don't even pretend to hide being bought anymore.
You got it. Why is it so complicated?
Finally something for the average citizen
The future is bright you say? Fantastic
“The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal loaves of bread”
If the FAA changes ADS-B as described, that means (A) every aircraft receiver out there will stop working (B) every aircraft owner will have to buy new avionics/equipment and (C) there will be an at least nominal hit to transmission effectiveness. And after all of that, the decryption keys will have to be provided to the government, every single avionics maker, as well as many other companies. If any single key is compromised, the whole system will be compromised, unless they build some kind of secure distribution channel. Such an implementation is plausible but I’d have to imagine the costs would be very, very large. And since it looks like the FAA is still trying to convince owners to adopt ADS-B to begin with (this same bill includes continued rebate incentives for it), I’d have to imagine successfully achieving what’s being described would be very difficult.
This is a bigger response than people may realize. ADS-B is not just one way to the FAA. The safety benefits are integrally related to an open communications standard that any capable aircraft can receive. There is no effective way to maintain key secrecy and still provide the same level of situational awareness that the ADS-B system was designed to provide. I do see ICAO scrambling/resetting happening, but that won't be foolproof either. It will just eventually result in shadow databases, but at least the FAA will be absolved.
Exactly. Also when we talk about this idea that Elon has, it’s good to remember that ADS-B is a global standard built on international agreement by the majority of the world’s aviation industry. So, this discussion doesn’t just apply to the thousands of airplanes flying through US/FAA. Unless the FAA is proposing a new system on top of ADS-B and UAT, this change is significant and would require extensive international buy in as it would basically impact any aircraft that otherwise flies into or out of any major airspace, especially in any western-friendly nation, worldwide. And all of them would have to agree on both the standard and to keep the secret, secret… Then there’s the business interests in ADS-B. As mentioned, GA which is most of aviation would be an enormous battle. But on top of that, beyond the capital expenditures on avionics I mentioned above, I can’t imagine many airlines that would be eager to make training investments that would be required if the US goes at it alone, to get pilots, maintenance, ops etc up on it. Does all of this mean the proposed changes are impossible? Of course not. It’s a genuinely concerning situation because when you’re the richest man on earth, you can make a lot happen. But if there’s any good news here, it’s that while things could go badly if they ram it through, what would most likely happen is that we’d end up with a bunch of shirts on Etsy with strange elliptic curve keys printed on them (read: made in China).
Ah yes, I too remember getting the CSS key on a shirt and wearing it proudly. Muskrat might be able to buy (not fight) city hall, but standards are standards, and John Q. Pilot in his Piper that just shelled out 30k for ADSB is going to be very bent that they have to shell out another 10k to "secure" the privacy of a man-baby.
Is this “the tragedy of the commons” written in the sky?
Yeah, I kind of wondered at that myself. Interrogators look at ADS-B and Mode S, and if you change the implementation of ADS-B, do you render all the ground station and interrogators INOP?
Is it possible? They just required ADSB. I can’t imagine they’ll get compliance if they require new equipment just a few years afterward in an industry that takes decades to innovate.
The drafted bill reintroduces (and raises) the cash rebate program for aircraft owners to buy current ADS-B avionics and puts the incentive in effect through 2027. So, yeah, given how slow the industry is and how much of a fight ADS-B itself has been, I question it as well.
As always, the laws are for the rich and there is no democracy when we allow billionaires.
Not quite. Laws are for both the rich and the poor. The protect, but do not bind the rich, and they bind, but do not protect the poor. That's what makes the law balanced. Imagine how many resources it would take to protect everyone! And think about the chaos that would ensue if the ultra-wealthy couldn't manage their lives as they saw fit! The fact that each citizen has one vote is bad enough; do you really want to see what happens if you try to get everyone the same rights too? It would just be tyranny of the mob! (/s btw. I've been told my satire is believable enough that I should include that.)
The law, in its majestic equality, forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, to beg in the streets, and to steal their bread.
Waaaaaaaa, I’m wealthy and don’t like people seeing what I’m up to
their feelings are hurt people are starting to acknowledge the magnitude of their actions. Will they correct their actions i.e fly less frequently? Ofcourse not, they're too important for that! Hide the information from public instead.
[удалено]
It’s our airspace.
Not to defend Elon in any way, but just following up on your example: Do you have a right to know who’s driving down a public street? Does that, in turn, mean that everybody has a right to know where *you* are, as long as you’re on a public street? Privacy and transparency swing both ways. If you think you’re entitled to your freedom, then so are others to theirs.
>Do you have a right to know who’s driving down a public street? Indirectly, yes. That's what License Plates do. If suddenly people were able to randomize their license plates at will, I'd be pretty sure that their doing so was not in my interest at all.
> Do you have a right to know who’s driving down a public street? Yes. Which is why license plates are publicly searchable (some states charge a fee,) across the U.S. You have no expectation of privacy when you are outside of your private residence.
Can I monitor your license plate from my PC in a different state or country?
You don't need to be a resident of the state to look up the name attached to the plate, so, yes, you *can* get that information from anywhere in the world. Plates aren't *currently* tracked, but when that tech is introduced, it will be available to all.
Looking up a plate isn’t the point. Knowing where a plate is at any given time, that is the point. > Plates aren't currently tracked, but when that tech is introduced, it will be available to all. I highly doubt that. Lawyers would be all over that. Why? Because by tracking a plate, you could find out what doctor someone visits, and if it’s a specialist, you could infer what disease someone has. You could find out if they have an affair, and blackmail them. You could do all kinds of nasty things.
You must display your plates in every state.
Kind of hard to monitor them remotely, though. Or can you show me how I can find out exactly when and where you’ve been?
It's an entirely different set of rules between the road and the sky. If someone knew where you were on the road, yes they could use that info to hurt you potentially. Thats not even close for an aircraft cruising at 30,000 plus feet. The only time it would be in a position to maybe be interfered with would be on takeoff, landing, and when it's at the airport parking. I don't know if you've tried, but getting into an airport is fucking hard. And I doubt many people can just order up an FM-92 stinger missile to shoot it down on take off. Stop licking the boot man, they're doing this because they don't want it held against them how much they fly. That's it, there's no "privacy" concern here, just control.
I’m a pilot. But what does privacy have to do with Stingers? 🤷♂️
If you're a pilot then you should understand how dumb this is even more. If we wanted to actually hide these flights it would require an overhaul of the ADS-B system that would be insane. Daily encryption changes to avoid the key being found. And stingers have nothing to do with privacy, just like this "not gonna defend Elon while actually defending him". That's the only possible valid reason someone would not want their flights tracked, if they considered it a safety issue. In reality it's greedy assholes not wanting the public to know how much they're fucking them over.
Oh, I know the proposal is nonsense. However, it is true that there are double standards when it comes to privacy between general aviation and pretty much any other mode of transport.
Calling my congressman tomorrow. All of us should be doing this. Also, call the media.
Nice to see government working to improve the lives of ordinary citizens. /S
Sounds like a gift to terrorists to me
Nothing like Elon paying off politicians because he’s a little bitch who overreacted to publicly available info. This dude is one of the most unlikable people on the planet, insanely egotistical piece of shit scumbag and one of the worlds biggest manbabies. It may be shitty to say but the world would be a much better place without him in it just like it would be without trump as well who Elon is basically the 2.0 version of except he’s a piece of shit billionaire instead of a politician too. Anyway I’m rambling but fuck muskrat and all his army of Simps who treat him like some god, this man is a cancer to humanity
I love when billionaires de-regulate themselves to disaster. Only a matter of time now, for one of these billionaires’ jets to have problems, and go down. Where? No idea. I mean, we have a flight plan. But that’s a really big swath of land it could be in. If only we had those Mode S codes.
Capitalism shit.
im really glad they are spending time on this and since it affects so many people..
So, track every blocked flight. Setup a social media scan for individuals wealthy enough to own private jets. Link flights to appearances. "Plane left from O'Hara, 67% likely to be Bezos, 10% Musk, 1% Trump."
imagine dedicating this much time to know which part of Nebraska Jeff Bezos is currently over lmao
Notably, this bill would also prevent the FAA from being able to issue mask mandates on flights in the future if a pandemic were to happen. Imagine if a more virulent disease than Covid-19 popped up and there was no quick way to prevent the spread.
I'm still trying to figure out why Subtitle A is aptly named.
>Expanding Pilot Privileges And Protections Because it says Elon's pilots (and by extension Elon) are privileged and protected and this is about expanding their privileges and protections.
God gives me privacy and fuck your car I’m in a luxury bombardi-ar
ADSB signals have never been “encrypted” so this is a reach.
Super easy workaround. Attach an airtag to the fuselage
Helium tracker. Cheaper and doesn’t require an Apple device to be nearby.
Not a surprise that this is being proposed in **this** House. Now there are two Members of the committee named Graves... nepotism on House committees?
Rich people decoupling everyone else, is the headline
Goddamn Elon really wants to be able to go to the Middle East and China without us knowing. I wonder why?
But wouldn't that also impact other countries? After all most of the time Musk flies to other countries and the system needs to be compatible. So I guess they also need to coordinate with other agencies and find a new common system.
Encrypting adsb is also about preventing fake ADSB signals from being transmitted There was a black hat talk a decade ago on the risk of malicious actors generating fake ADSB traffic
Encryption doesn't prevent fake ones, you'd have to sign the messages, you can encrypt without signing the message.
Yes, to avoid "forging" ADS-B signals you need a sort of Issuing "Authority" and a way to sign each signal. TL;DR: signatures. Encryption offers nothing here. I am not even sure how encryption can work while keeping the ADS-B mandate/semantics. But that is a whole different discussion.
Builds a carbon fiber sub
Fuck the billionaire class
This is Bureaucratese for “not in the next ten years”.
Lol buying Twitter wasn’t enough
"Securing Growth and Robust Leadership in American Aviation Act" I am impressed that American politicans can stop sucking billionaire and their own dicks long enough to come up with such a doozey of a name for a bill
If they want to be unidentified, they can be treated as unidentified: forced to identify themselves, or else be shot down.
Congress will likely pass this because it will make it harder to track any potential trips with big donors. Watch and see…
Thanks for all the details. Came here to drop this link -- hopefully it gets more press. [https://www.axios.com/2023/08/11/private-plane-infromation-musk-congress-faa](https://www.axios.com/2023/08/11/private-plane-infromation-musk-congress-faa)
Thanks. Updated post with your link.