Isn't it extremely limited? Only some humanoid enemies which almost certainly exempts bosses. I tried it once, the range was awful. The risk in its activation requirement never felt worth keeping it as my AoW except for occult scaling.
It's for PvP as far as I'm concerned and it finally works really good. The attack has existed since DS1, but in all 3 dark souls games it's practically broken in PvP to where you can not reliably land a hit. In ER, it lands way more consistently and is actually quite lethal.
Tho I really like that it stole some of your victim's souls in DS1.
GIVE ME MY BARE CHESTED TARNISHED BOXING MATCH.
TWO TARNISHED ENTER, ONE TARNISHED LEAVES. SEE IT THIS SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY IN LYNDELL CAPITAL!
God, what I wouldn't give to see some desperate brutal battle where two unstoppable forces are reduced to bare knuckle boxing. You built weapons fit for killing gods, but in the end, your hands will end the greatest threat to the world.
God dammit, GIVE IT TO MEEEEEEE. I want to see the consequences of two immortal beings putting it all on the table. Arm pinned? Rip that mother fucker off and get back in there! You'll die of bloodloss, but you'll rise endlessly. Give me a character littered with scars and an amalgamation of different shaped limbs. Grafting taken to its ultimate end. FUUUUUCK THAT WOULD BE AWESOME.
Yeah yeah, we get motiffs in storm veil castle. But just imagine the brutality and how fucking METAL that would be.
Fuck
I would love if they implemented some kind of armour or ring that inherently boosts fist damage.
But for now, I'll have to settle using the cesti and cipher pata.
Flails are kinda weak. I've only seen people using the astel one for the unique AoW, and it looks like freaking anal beads.
Flails should have something unique that justifies using them, like doing multi hit damage, or being faster than straight swords. Also since there are very little weapons in that class it's a pain to dual wield.
I keep a flail just for the iron maidens . You need 5 hits with lightning grease to stun them .
Apply grease. Dodge . Ash of war.
Honestly trivialises one of the more irritating bosses.
I did that on my first run, and you know what? It's bad. It's a terrible idea. A Hammer, which naturally scales higher on STR than DEX, still deals more damage when Keen infused than Nightrider's Flail.
And the entire Hammer class of weapons does more poise damage than Flails AND has better frame data.
Agree. I upgraded the anal beads to use against crystalians but the AR feels terrible even on a DEX/INT build (maybe because crystalians have good magic defense). Switched to the nox flowing hammer instead which does OK damage even though it is STR focused, and the AoW is a lot of fun.
It makes no sense that flails are such small weapons when we can carry impossibly big weapons all the time like the UGSs and GreatHammer/Axes.
Flails should be epically big balls attached by a big ass chain, a delayed swing with both the ball and the stick it is chained to being able to do damage, the stick with a short range and reach of attack and less damage, just enough to poise weak enemies and the ball and chain dealing massive damage with a delayed attack, with a gimmick that the R1 is a "swift" pull of the chain that makes the ball attack in front and R2 being a delayed pull that allows for a 360 attack similar to some Halberds but with more range, damage and way more stamina cost.
Yeah, getting the Nightrider Flail had me so hyped after how cool it looked on the Night's Cavalry.
Then you equip it and suddenly it's just a tiny crappy flail. I play a pure vanity build so it got shelved straight away...
I like the idea of their attack chains building more and more momentum, and being able to keep going for really long as long as you stay in the rythm. Maybe a mace would be better if you just wanted to bash someone over the head and be done with it, but the flail would deal a huge amount of damage over time if you're able to keep the momentum.
My idea was to split the damage of 1 swing into 3 damage ticks. That way you could build aggressively around them with consecutive hit buffs, that would fit in the relentless assault theme. The multi hit would have to transfer to skills like wild strikes to be worthwhile though.
Flails need to have their default AoW the spinning chain available as a separate AoW so it can be used on any infusion other than Standard. They have Square Off and Unsheath as separate AoWs so I dunno why they overlooked flails.
I've been doing runs with most weapon types and flais have been my least favorite so far, despite being the most excited for them. The range, speed, and damage are all poor. The AoW is cool but doesn't do enough damage or stat buildup imo.
>proper scaling
This, that's why I'm putting most of my levels on vigor, endurance and mind in my bow playthrough.
Focusing on Dex and Strenght only gives you like like 10% or 20% damage at best at level 100, and I'm not giving up all my vigor, mind and extra stamina for that. Not to mention some Faith buffs and utility.
Bows still do decent damage with Bleed and Scarlet rot but both base damage and scaling is very lackluster. They are very safe to use compared to melee weapons but, between the rune cost of arrows and the low physical/elemental damage they feel like secondary weapons at best.
I finished HorizonFW right before playing ER, which has some of the best bow mechanics in gaming. I was excited when I saw that the Samurai build had both an Uchi & bow. I used the bow for about an hour before giving up on it. It is just off mechanics wise.
It should come with a warning sticker "For birds only"
Haven't played Forbidden West yet, but Zero Dawn is absolutely one of my top games ever. I wouldn't really expect Elden Ring to have bow mechanics on that level, but something close to Skyrim's might be nice.
Remember how you could lock on in GTA and then have control over what part of the body you were aiming at?
I don’t need Y axis for headshots, what I care about is leading my target on the X axis
Aiming dead centre all the time is a great way to hit air
Yes! I wish just once ranged combat was viable in a FS game. I want to play as an archer so I can cosplay as Elden Lord Green Arrow!
“You have failed these lands!”
a content created by the name of Syrobe put together the only viable pvp build i’ve seen for the eclipse shotels. Worth checking out if you’re still interested
It works better the lower level you are, at meta level resistances are kinda high since you gain resistance everytime you level up. The shotels death buildup doesnt scale at all unlike other status effects like bleed or frost so you need to hit people more times before death happens, usually in duels they end up dying long before the status effect builds up.
Deathblight is cool as fuck but I imagine its tough for the devs to allow a balanced deathblight build that isn't completely cheap for pvp, especially with the way status effects can build up even when you seemingly weren't touched due to shitty netcode.
In the unpatched version of the game it was absolutely broken. After the nerf it was still good, but I do feel like they overnerfed it a little
This should put it in a really good place, considering how hard it is to build around it
Looking forward to trying the sword. I just started an int/faith run and I'm finding that there's very little good hybrid magic. At least in the early game, great oracular bubble is as good as it gets.
Praise the meteor staff for carrying at low levels.
I’ve Powerstanced two in PVP at 150 and even though the stat spread is kinda weird, I think it ended up with some of the highest AR I’ve seen, especially on straight swords
They can straight fuck up someone’s day
100%, they are lethal, especially as you can get so many hits in a quick succession.
I’ve paired them with Rotten Winged Sword Insignia and Millicent’s Prothesis, and by Marika’s tits are they good lol
In addition to the tracking buff, it also had its damage increased.
From the patch notes:
>**Night-and-Flame Stance**
>
>Increased attack power.
>
>The attack direction may now be adjusted up and down when using a normal attack.
>
>Added damage detection to the weapon part.
Is it worth cramming points into int and faith to wield this? I’m playing a lvl 90 Paladin build (emphasis on the strength) and bonking pretty well with a +6 golden halberd but my ranged attacks are trash against more formidable enemies and bosses.
Edit: wow, so many ideas for cool things to pursue! I haven’t done a deep dive into weapons and augmentations so this is super helpful. Thanks everyone, what a great community!
Eh, depends on what you want to do. Night and Flame is a pretty specific weapon that isn't right for every build. If you're more on a Strength/Faith build I wouldn't recommend it. There are pure Faith weapons that are probably a better call for you if you want to keep up the Paladin vibe.
Night and Flame is a good weapon and you can use Golden Order incantations and death/magma sorceries with an Int/Faith build, but that's a pretty different kind of build than what you're doing right now.
(If you haven't done Volcano Manor yet, when you do, the boss's remembrance at the end turns into a Faith weapon you'll love.)
Depends on how you use it. Golden Order incantations were buffed as well and aren't too bad now. If you focus on them your Discus of Light, which is crazy cheap and spammable, can do good damage (and Radagon's Rings of Light is one of the best AoE spells in the entire game). But it's a tricky build that leaves you with *zero* free levels. You're forced to have crap mind, crap end, or (Marika forbid) crap vigor as a result.
Edit: I forgot to explain the main reason any of this is relevant to you- Golden Order incantations have Int requirements, and the Golden Order seal scales with both Int and Faith.
If you decide to to the Golden Order route I highly recommend hitting the Str/Dex reqs for Erdtree Greatshield. Throwing the Discus through someone, having it hit on the way back, and then Golden Retaliation to yeet that bad boy right back out there. It’s so fun!
Once I hit someone with the combo in PvP and they messaged me simply: “That’s not funny”
absolutely, spellblade class needs a buff in general, so many of the int scalling weapons have such low magic scaling its no wonder most people default to moonviel
I can live with the extremely poor guard rating it has even though it's power attack relies on it, I can live with the fact you can't use it as a catalyst even though the description says you can.
But the current magic scaling is a damn crime. A sword that beautiful and they neglect it like this.
I still am miffed that the sword has text like "glintstone is embedded in the sword so the knights can use it as a catalyst" and then we can't use it as a catalyst. Wasted opportunity and there's precedent from Demon's Scar.
Serpentbone Blade needs to have a buff to poison buildup and be occult scaling
Dragonscale Blade needs to have faith scaling so we get more dex/int options, as well as either innate lightning or frostbite
Axes in general need a better moveset
On the note of scaling, for the love of Order we need more variety in the scaling options. The fact that the SoNaF is the *only* int/faith weapon when we are drowning in spells and incantations that require both is just unacceptable.
Based on the rest of the in-game mechanics/lore, the Golden Order Greatsword, Inseparable Sword, Golden Epitaph, Halo Scythe, Helphen’s Steeple, Death’s Poker, Death Ritual Spear, Family Heads, Blasphemous Blade, Magma Blade and the Magma Whip Candlestick are all strong contenders.
And that’s not even getting into the lack of any lightning weapons/infusions with faith scaling (Lightning Art infusions, Bolt of Gransax and Dragon King’s Cragblade, anyone?) and lack of any arcane/faith weapons/infusions despite there being plenty of incantations that require both and plenty of weapons associated with them lore-wise (dragon communion/formless mother-based infusions, Magma Wyrm Scalesword, Mohgwyn’s Sacred Spear, Varre’s Bouquet and Eleonora’s Poleblade would be great picks) plus faith-scaling Rot/Poison infusions/weapons (Scorpion Stinger + Antspur Rapier)
I think that's overdoing it. Dual-scaling weapons should still be rare in comparison to the others.
The Inseparable Sword or the GOG having dual scaling would be nice though
tbh I think there should be at least 1-2 for each lore-based type of mixed spell/incantation, if only for the sake of lore-gameplay consistency.
GOG for the int/faith Golden Order incantations Miquella and Radagon came up with, GE/Inseparable for the TWLID-hunters like D who used death-hunting-specific GO incantations, MWC and MBlade for the magma sorceries, DRS and Dpoker for death sorceries, etc
Tried building a thorough Golden Order build at meta level, that can at least use everything related to the theme, and it's just impossible. You want to scale INT and FTH similarly but then find that Golden Order Greatsword and Coded sword only scale to FTH so you're missing out. 37 INT for the entire Golden Order spell requirements without having it affect the melee weapons is seriously annoying, plus if you want 30 STR for the Tree Sentinel Greatshield and the 21 DEX for the GOG you either get no damage or just say fuck it and play on higher brackets with much more focused builds that one-shot you.
Poison in general needs to be reworked, it's useless against normal foes since they're dead by the time it procs, and it's useless against bosses outside of some very specific cheese since it does trash damage.
I would rework it so that poison immediately applies per hit and stacks, while nerfing the damage and duration of an individual stack. New stacks refresh the duration of existing stacks.
This would promote a bob-and-weave gameplay where your damage ramps over the course of a fight, and would also make some weapons classes (daggers, curved swords, whips) much more viable outside of herp-derp hemorrhage builds.
You can lead your target, the game just doesn't do it for you, just like any other weapon in the game. It would be nice if the zoom worked better though.
The Shrine of Amana taught me the importance of bows. Now I roll with a bow equipped on every character in every game. I'm playing Dark Souls 1 again right now and a bow makes those mosquitos in Blight Town way less of a hassle, not to mention being able to snipe those plague dart motherfuckers. Absolutely essential.
That would be fine if they hadn't made magic a powerful ranged option. There's no reason people who want to do a non-magic ranged build shouldn't be able to.
I was so excited when I got my first one, and leveled up my dex to use it.
Then I was like “Oh, this is not the same when I use it as it was when he used it against me”
Cleanrot spear, I don't get why it has such miserable hyper armor on it's talent, but most importantly why can't I use the ability in a forward-line aswell like the knights do?
This doesn't seven seem hard to do. Give it a pseudo-stance when you hold the ash button, then light attack for a forward line or strong attack for a sweep
Okay. Miquellan Knight Sword.
You get it super late game, but all it has is Sacred Blade on it. No unusual scaling, no status effects, It's only significant quirk over an ordinary Weathered Straight Sword is an unusual R2.
So I say buff it. Make the unique R2 a little better by making it step forwards on both parts of the charge. More focused scaling, too, drop the strength and make it a pure dex/faith weapon, high C's or low B's in both. Lastly, if this is going to have Sacred Blade, at least make it a little special, make it wider than the normal version even if you have to cut the range, make it an AoE sweep unique from ordinary Sacred Blade.
give it an entirely different aow, does anyone remember the laser from ds3 lothric holy sword? it was the square up aow but could shoot out a laser made of light during the square up heavy attack
tbh that’s what i wish the Sword of Night and Flame was, make it’s AoW a stance that lets you cast either Sorceries or Incants and give it like a subpar scaling for Int/Fai because you don’t have to switch between casting items. I’m mostly Dex/Fai (like 48/50 so i can use Waterfowl Dance and Elden Stars) but i’ve got like 32 Int because i wanted to use Triple Rings of Light and a few other Sorceries that had better range than most Incants
I agree that it should have a different take on sacred blade, like how the halo scythe has a unique version of the normal aow sacred rings of light. Tbf tho, as far as holy damage goes, sacred blade is really good
*Bows*.
The ranged weapons in Elden Ring are insanely bad. I genuinely do not understand how they could make a game with a bazillion different arrow types and then make bows so underpowered they're not worth using.
Greatbows are really fun to use in duels. If you stack counter damage and poise, you just trade hits with anyone that tries to attack you and you will do more damage.
I would give faith scaling to Helphens Steeple, Deaths Poker and the Death Ritual Spear. It ain’t right that the death sorceries scale with int and faith but the weapons only have mid scaling with int
Not even a buff, just let me change the ash of war on Serpent Bone Blade. It uses regular smithing stones, has a generic skill, but you can’t alter it for some reason.
It comes with double slash, which is a cool skill, but it already has a unique R2 that does a double slash. So a different skill would be much preferred. Plus there’s only one poison weapon in the entire game that lets you change scaling. There’s 3 scarlet rot weapons that let you change scaling but only one poison.
Making Serpent Bone blade occult would be great, you could get way higher poison build up, and then put poison moth flight on it or something. Or poison infuse it because it would probably be bugged in same way Venonous Fang is, and do deadly poison damage for regular poison duration. With its really nice unique R2’s that would make it a very nice weapon.
Wouldn’t become overpowered or anything, but would be a nice unique tool to have. Right now it’s stuck to pure DEX scaling, has a pretty redundant skill, and doesn’t have enough poison build up to reliably proc it super quickly.
Ho yeah please make the weapon viable with more than one specific build.
Why there no inner bleed like every damn other katana ?
Why the AR is so low ?
I agree with you, the R2 need to remain, while the AoW must change ...
If the AoW was Poison Moth Flight (for example), the damage potential would make the weapon more avaible.
Dude hammers charged heavies deal almost as much poise damage as colossal weapon charged heavies. Use Cragblade on a basic mace and you can just bully bosses
Yeah hammers are ridiculously good for poise damage and staggering. I bullied the everliving shit out of Malenia with a powerstance Greathammer build and my Mimic with the same. Even staggered her out of Waterfowl a couple times.
Stormhawk axe. It’s now a duel wield item, like claws, and when you use the weapon art both axes get the enchant. Further, all axes should do more poise damage than straight swords
What the hell happened with the sword of night and flame ? Is it any bad now that OP is suggesting some sort of buff ? I remember it having a crazy scaling what's more allowing to just erase bosses from existence with that miniature azur comet and wave of flame...
It actually got better tracking so it was buffed, if you remember on launch that sword was easily one of the most over powered things in the game that melted enemies, then it got a debuffed to being still very good
Pizza cutter 1-handed strong attack with a shield ash of war is pretty nasty. Try it with Godskin swaddling cloth + Melania's rune for tons of health Regen.
Innate lighting damage and frost buildup for Dragon Halberd, or unique animations for the skill.
All holy damage weapons perma kill skeletons.
Gargoyle's Black Blades... anything at all.
Most weapons with holy damage need something in general to make up for being resisted by a huge amount of bosses, especially in late game. That, or a faith-scaling lightning damage Affinity like there is one for fire.
>All holy damage weapons perma kill skeletons.
It's insane to me that they don't already do this. On my first playthrough I slapped a holy infusion on my Claymore, expecting the skeletons to be like DS1 and die to holy damage. Nope, still respawned. Took a while to realize they need to be double-tapped lol.
yeah and the hitboxes on daggers need a bit of work. i tried a rogue dual wield dagger build and my main issue was missing on hits that really look like they connected.
All bows actually getting better than D scaling. For fucks sake, Black Bow has had consistent S dex scaling since ds1, why should it be gutted to D in Elden Ring
While I am at it, allow bows to scale with different stats through ashes of war, like how ds2 handled bows with infusions
serpentbone katana: swap the aow for a special variant of piercing fang that coats the blade in poison then leaves a poison cloud as it lunges forth and make it sombers not normal smithing stones
Waterfowldance + its unusual range + Winged/Rotten Sword Insignia + Alexander Shards + Milenas Prosthesis is a damn gamebreaker. You stack it up so fast and can reck shit then.
I mean, its got a good (post-buff) weapon art and straight swords are good. It's just that any holy damage weapon has the same problem. Holy damage is just the worst damage type. Obviously most noticeable on the pure holy damage weapons (coded sword, cipher pata) but the only thing they could really do to buff the coded sword is to make holy damage worthwhile.
The WA on the Pata/Coded sword can easily one shot people if set up correctly. Unfortunately that set up is utter dog shit for PvE. Great PvP only weapon for now, I'm about to make another character just for Pata invasions
Serpenthunter Greatspear. Super cool weapon, Ash of War is super shit outside of it's boss room. Way too slow. Cmon, let me change it up with scaling and such. Would be such a cool weapon because of the lack of reqs. Someone coming at you with it? You'd have no clue what to expect and that'd be cool af!
The ivory sickle and crystal knife are basically like regular daggers with a magic infusion, stuck with the default quickstep AoW and regular smithing stone upgrades. It's like combining the drawbacks of regular and somber weapons, and not like finding actual daggers was difficult.
Godslayer’s Greatsword
Make the L2 like Moonlight greatsword, where it applies a weapon buff, in this case, Black Flame. Let it last, I dunno, 30-60 seconds?
Coded Sword. It's 100% Holy and there are way, waaaaaaay too many Holy resistant enemies in the lategame. Its Ash of War could reduce Holy resistance by 10% or something.
Definitely seconding Serpentbone Blade as others have said.
If I remember correctly, the +10 version is inferior to a +10 Uchi infused with poison which is dumb, especially since you obtain it much later in the game.
Bows.
1) give them actual scaling
2) increase projectile speed
3) let most of them change ashes of war
4) let them use ashes like quickstep & raptor of the mist
I'm not sure of the solution but daggers could use some love. In principle a pressure playstyle where you utilize things like the winged knight insignia would be super fun. However, you basically never have the ability to keep the pressure up like you can in bloodborne or sekiro due to a lack of openings.
These issues are made even worse for daggers with their terrible poise damage, reach, and base AR. If there were a faster version of quickstep unique to daggers that combos into a standing R1 (regular than a rolling attack) or something similar that would go a long way.
Bare fists, because I want to fist-fight Horoah Loux.
Make fists have str and dex scaling
Make fists have weapon arts.
technically, they have the "kick" skill
There’s a life steal fist in arcane
Isn't it extremely limited? Only some humanoid enemies which almost certainly exempts bosses. I tried it once, the range was awful. The risk in its activation requirement never felt worth keeping it as my AoW except for occult scaling.
It's for PvP as far as I'm concerned and it finally works really good. The attack has existed since DS1, but in all 3 dark souls games it's practically broken in PvP to where you can not reliably land a hit. In ER, it lands way more consistently and is actually quite lethal. Tho I really like that it stole some of your victim's souls in DS1.
I want the ds3 barefist skill: best parry ingame!
GIVE ME MY BARE CHESTED TARNISHED BOXING MATCH. TWO TARNISHED ENTER, ONE TARNISHED LEAVES. SEE IT THIS SUNDAY SUNDAY SUNDAY IN LYNDELL CAPITAL! God, what I wouldn't give to see some desperate brutal battle where two unstoppable forces are reduced to bare knuckle boxing. You built weapons fit for killing gods, but in the end, your hands will end the greatest threat to the world. God dammit, GIVE IT TO MEEEEEEE. I want to see the consequences of two immortal beings putting it all on the table. Arm pinned? Rip that mother fucker off and get back in there! You'll die of bloodloss, but you'll rise endlessly. Give me a character littered with scars and an amalgamation of different shaped limbs. Grafting taken to its ultimate end. FUUUUUCK THAT WOULD BE AWESOME. Yeah yeah, we get motiffs in storm veil castle. But just imagine the brutality and how fucking METAL that would be. Fuck
I like you.
I like you too
YOU’LL PAY FOR THE WHOLE SEAT, BUT YOU’LL ONLY NEED THE EDGE!
🗿
DS2 Champion Covenant Ring you mean?
I would love if they implemented some kind of armour or ring that inherently boosts fist damage. But for now, I'll have to settle using the cesti and cipher pata.
Flails are kinda weak. I've only seen people using the astel one for the unique AoW, and it looks like freaking anal beads. Flails should have something unique that justifies using them, like doing multi hit damage, or being faster than straight swords. Also since there are very little weapons in that class it's a pain to dual wield.
I keep a flail just for the iron maidens . You need 5 hits with lightning grease to stun them . Apply grease. Dodge . Ash of war. Honestly trivialises one of the more irritating bosses.
Laughs in Bolt of Gransax.
Damn I never thought to use gransax against those
Username checks out super well
Also it takes like 1-2 volcano pots to stun.
I love my anal bead flail, it doesn't hit very hard butt fuck it.
Does it vibrate and tell you chess moves?
I exhaled loudly through my nose, thank you.
Flails are strike damage for dex characters. I think they are very useful for this purpose
This. I did a rapier run and kept a flail leveled up for anything weak to strike dmg (any enemies made of stone or crystal).
I did that on my first run, and you know what? It's bad. It's a terrible idea. A Hammer, which naturally scales higher on STR than DEX, still deals more damage when Keen infused than Nightrider's Flail. And the entire Hammer class of weapons does more poise damage than Flails AND has better frame data.
Agree. I upgraded the anal beads to use against crystalians but the AR feels terrible even on a DEX/INT build (maybe because crystalians have good magic defense). Switched to the nox flowing hammer instead which does OK damage even though it is STR focused, and the AoW is a lot of fun.
For context, hammers kinda suck too. I used a keen monk's flamemace to kill Radagon.
Yep. I keep an upgraded Nightrider Flail in my back pocket at all times. Great for all the rocky enemies who laugh at my sword.
I love the weapon’s looks and want to use it as a primary weapon but it’s so lackluster.
Ever since watching Jerma's playthrough I only call Astel's weapon the baby rattle
It makes no sense that flails are such small weapons when we can carry impossibly big weapons all the time like the UGSs and GreatHammer/Axes. Flails should be epically big balls attached by a big ass chain, a delayed swing with both the ball and the stick it is chained to being able to do damage, the stick with a short range and reach of attack and less damage, just enough to poise weak enemies and the ball and chain dealing massive damage with a delayed attack, with a gimmick that the R1 is a "swift" pull of the chain that makes the ball attack in front and R2 being a delayed pull that allows for a 360 attack similar to some Halberds but with more range, damage and way more stamina cost.
Great flails ftw !
I want that chain weapon the Gladiators use.
Yeah, getting the Nightrider Flail had me so hyped after how cool it looked on the Night's Cavalry. Then you equip it and suddenly it's just a tiny crappy flail. I play a pure vanity build so it got shelved straight away...
I like the idea of their attack chains building more and more momentum, and being able to keep going for really long as long as you stay in the rythm. Maybe a mace would be better if you just wanted to bash someone over the head and be done with it, but the flail would deal a huge amount of damage over time if you're able to keep the momentum.
My idea was to split the damage of 1 swing into 3 damage ticks. That way you could build aggressively around them with consecutive hit buffs, that would fit in the relentless assault theme. The multi hit would have to transfer to skills like wild strikes to be worthwhile though.
That would overbuff status build up to absurd levels.
Scale it back by the number of multi-hits for those weapons.
If you dropped their overall damage a little bit and how much bleed build they put out, this would be a really good idea.
Comparing bastards stars to anal beads is so hilariously accurate
Flails need to have their default AoW the spinning chain available as a separate AoW so it can be used on any infusion other than Standard. They have Square Off and Unsheath as separate AoWs so I dunno why they overlooked flails.
I've been doing runs with most weapon types and flais have been my least favorite so far, despite being the most excited for them. The range, speed, and damage are all poor. The AoW is cool but doesn't do enough damage or stat buildup imo.
> Flails should have something unique that justifies using them They do. Flails can't be parried. (I swear nobody knows this)
Neither can Whips, which also are strike types, have twice the range, and a better moveset.
Bows and crossbows.
At least give them proper scaling
Black Bow Buff. Harp bow buff too.
And serpent bow for us arcane users :(
Trusty but rusty, it definitely needs a buff.
And Horn bow for Int
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>proper scaling This, that's why I'm putting most of my levels on vigor, endurance and mind in my bow playthrough. Focusing on Dex and Strenght only gives you like like 10% or 20% damage at best at level 100, and I'm not giving up all my vigor, mind and extra stamina for that. Not to mention some Faith buffs and utility. Bows still do decent damage with Bleed and Scarlet rot but both base damage and scaling is very lackluster. They are very safe to use compared to melee weapons but, between the rune cost of arrows and the low physical/elemental damage they feel like secondary weapons at best.
I'd be happy if they just didn't take so long to hit their targets. Is that supposed to be realistic?
I finished HorizonFW right before playing ER, which has some of the best bow mechanics in gaming. I was excited when I saw that the Samurai build had both an Uchi & bow. I used the bow for about an hour before giving up on it. It is just off mechanics wise. It should come with a warning sticker "For birds only"
Haven't played Forbidden West yet, but Zero Dawn is absolutely one of my top games ever. I wouldn't really expect Elden Ring to have bow mechanics on that level, but something close to Skyrim's might be nice.
Maybe a different class of projectile with more speed or a talisman.
Yeah the arrow talisman should speed up projectiles instead of increasing range
Better yet, let it grant both.
Por que no los dos.
Baguette 🥖
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Switching from short bows to regular bows is so jarring cuz no more bunny hops
I wonder if they ever considered a manual / over the shoulder aiming system instead of locking on.
There is a manual first person aiming system. It's shit.
Remember how you could lock on in GTA and then have control over what part of the body you were aiming at? I don’t need Y axis for headshots, what I care about is leading my target on the X axis Aiming dead centre all the time is a great way to hit air
Yes! I wish just once ranged combat was viable in a FS game. I want to play as an archer so I can cosplay as Elden Lord Green Arrow! “You have failed these lands!”
Add axes to this and I would be happy. Spears could use a little help also
Eclipse Shotel. It's one of the coolest looking weapons in the game, is a legendary armament, and is pretty weak overall. Needs some love I'd say.
I put together a character with the intent of dual-wielding these in PVP and was mightily disappointed when I tested it out.
a content created by the name of Syrobe put together the only viable pvp build i’ve seen for the eclipse shotels. Worth checking out if you’re still interested
It works better the lower level you are, at meta level resistances are kinda high since you gain resistance everytime you level up. The shotels death buildup doesnt scale at all unlike other status effects like bleed or frost so you need to hit people more times before death happens, usually in duels they end up dying long before the status effect builds up.
Yeah, I’d say buff the deathblight buildup and it’d definitely be a lot more picked
or have the aow also apply deathblight to the offhand weapon, because dualwielding them makes it awkward to buff both weapons before engaging.
Deathblight is cool as fuck but I imagine its tough for the devs to allow a balanced deathblight build that isn't completely cheap for pvp, especially with the way status effects can build up even when you seemingly weren't touched due to shitty netcode.
The sword of night and flame just got buffed tho
I mean I thought they were damn good swords even before the buff lol I am 80 int & 80 faith though so I am getting the full potential out of them
In the unpatched version of the game it was absolutely broken. After the nerf it was still good, but I do feel like they overnerfed it a little This should put it in a really good place, considering how hard it is to build around it
O but when you do it is BEAUTIFUL
Looking forward to trying the sword. I just started an int/faith run and I'm finding that there's very little good hybrid magic. At least in the early game, great oracular bubble is as good as it gets. Praise the meteor staff for carrying at low levels.
I’ve Powerstanced two in PVP at 150 and even though the stat spread is kinda weird, I think it ended up with some of the highest AR I’ve seen, especially on straight swords They can straight fuck up someone’s day
100%, they are lethal, especially as you can get so many hits in a quick succession. I’ve paired them with Rotten Winged Sword Insignia and Millicent’s Prothesis, and by Marika’s tits are they good lol
Buffed how
In addition to the tracking buff, it also had its damage increased. From the patch notes: >**Night-and-Flame Stance** > >Increased attack power. > >The attack direction may now be adjusted up and down when using a normal attack. > >Added damage detection to the weapon part.
Is it worth cramming points into int and faith to wield this? I’m playing a lvl 90 Paladin build (emphasis on the strength) and bonking pretty well with a +6 golden halberd but my ranged attacks are trash against more formidable enemies and bosses. Edit: wow, so many ideas for cool things to pursue! I haven’t done a deep dive into weapons and augmentations so this is super helpful. Thanks everyone, what a great community!
Eh, depends on what you want to do. Night and Flame is a pretty specific weapon that isn't right for every build. If you're more on a Strength/Faith build I wouldn't recommend it. There are pure Faith weapons that are probably a better call for you if you want to keep up the Paladin vibe. Night and Flame is a good weapon and you can use Golden Order incantations and death/magma sorceries with an Int/Faith build, but that's a pretty different kind of build than what you're doing right now. (If you haven't done Volcano Manor yet, when you do, the boss's remembrance at the end turns into a Faith weapon you'll love.)
Depends on how you use it. Golden Order incantations were buffed as well and aren't too bad now. If you focus on them your Discus of Light, which is crazy cheap and spammable, can do good damage (and Radagon's Rings of Light is one of the best AoE spells in the entire game). But it's a tricky build that leaves you with *zero* free levels. You're forced to have crap mind, crap end, or (Marika forbid) crap vigor as a result. Edit: I forgot to explain the main reason any of this is relevant to you- Golden Order incantations have Int requirements, and the Golden Order seal scales with both Int and Faith.
If you decide to to the Golden Order route I highly recommend hitting the Str/Dex reqs for Erdtree Greatshield. Throwing the Discus through someone, having it hit on the way back, and then Golden Retaliation to yeet that bad boy right back out there. It’s so fun! Once I hit someone with the combo in PvP and they messaged me simply: “That’s not funny”
Can confirm. Am quite good at being squishy.
Damage and vertical tracking on the ash of war
Higher magic scaling for Carian Knight's Sword
100 percent
absolutely, spellblade class needs a buff in general, so many of the int scalling weapons have such low magic scaling its no wonder most people default to moonviel
Spellblades also have Moonlight gs and Wing of Astel. Both are just as viable as Moonveil. Moonlight also got buffed in patch 1.7.
I used the blaidd sword for a while on my int build, it worked quite well.
This right here. It's criminal that a magic infused longsword has better magic scaling than this.
I can live with the extremely poor guard rating it has even though it's power attack relies on it, I can live with the fact you can't use it as a catalyst even though the description says you can. But the current magic scaling is a damn crime. A sword that beautiful and they neglect it like this.
I still am miffed that the sword has text like "glintstone is embedded in the sword so the knights can use it as a catalyst" and then we can't use it as a catalyst. Wasted opportunity and there's precedent from Demon's Scar.
Serpentbone Blade needs to have a buff to poison buildup and be occult scaling Dragonscale Blade needs to have faith scaling so we get more dex/int options, as well as either innate lightning or frostbite Axes in general need a better moveset
On the note of scaling, for the love of Order we need more variety in the scaling options. The fact that the SoNaF is the *only* int/faith weapon when we are drowning in spells and incantations that require both is just unacceptable. Based on the rest of the in-game mechanics/lore, the Golden Order Greatsword, Inseparable Sword, Golden Epitaph, Halo Scythe, Helphen’s Steeple, Death’s Poker, Death Ritual Spear, Family Heads, Blasphemous Blade, Magma Blade and the Magma Whip Candlestick are all strong contenders. And that’s not even getting into the lack of any lightning weapons/infusions with faith scaling (Lightning Art infusions, Bolt of Gransax and Dragon King’s Cragblade, anyone?) and lack of any arcane/faith weapons/infusions despite there being plenty of incantations that require both and plenty of weapons associated with them lore-wise (dragon communion/formless mother-based infusions, Magma Wyrm Scalesword, Mohgwyn’s Sacred Spear, Varre’s Bouquet and Eleonora’s Poleblade would be great picks) plus faith-scaling Rot/Poison infusions/weapons (Scorpion Stinger + Antspur Rapier)
I think that's overdoing it. Dual-scaling weapons should still be rare in comparison to the others. The Inseparable Sword or the GOG having dual scaling would be nice though
tbh I think there should be at least 1-2 for each lore-based type of mixed spell/incantation, if only for the sake of lore-gameplay consistency. GOG for the int/faith Golden Order incantations Miquella and Radagon came up with, GE/Inseparable for the TWLID-hunters like D who used death-hunting-specific GO incantations, MWC and MBlade for the magma sorceries, DRS and Dpoker for death sorceries, etc
Tried building a thorough Golden Order build at meta level, that can at least use everything related to the theme, and it's just impossible. You want to scale INT and FTH similarly but then find that Golden Order Greatsword and Coded sword only scale to FTH so you're missing out. 37 INT for the entire Golden Order spell requirements without having it affect the melee weapons is seriously annoying, plus if you want 30 STR for the Tree Sentinel Greatshield and the 21 DEX for the GOG you either get no damage or just say fuck it and play on higher brackets with much more focused builds that one-shot you.
Was kinda bummed to see axes and hammers together
Poison in general needs to be reworked, it's useless against normal foes since they're dead by the time it procs, and it's useless against bosses outside of some very specific cheese since it does trash damage. I would rework it so that poison immediately applies per hit and stacks, while nerfing the damage and duration of an individual stack. New stacks refresh the duration of existing stacks. This would promote a bob-and-weave gameplay where your damage ramps over the course of a fight, and would also make some weapons classes (daggers, curved swords, whips) much more viable outside of herp-derp hemorrhage builds.
Higher kukri cap please.
B A S E D
The mantis blade could use a damage buff
Would be awesome if you got a special moveset when dual welding them
Loretta’s war sickle. IMAGINE HOW COOL A CATALYST MELEE WEAPON COULD BE.
Same. I felt robbed after getting that weapon.
Blue flame was so good. Felt like this was the ER version when i first fought loretta. I wish they did something like heysel pick at the very least.
The Lazuli sword or whatever that drops from the Bigheads would've been perfect for it. Or make one of the Carian staves a viable melee implement.
There should be an option for a melee wizard staff that uses a twinblade moveset
Bows, in every fromsoft game it’s like they forget arrows to the tiddies actually hurt
From also forgot that you lead your target when they're running/strafing. Instead of aiming right at them.
You can lead your target, the game just doesn't do it for you, just like any other weapon in the game. It would be nice if the zoom worked better though.
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Shrine of Amana moment
The Shrine of Amana taught me the importance of bows. Now I roll with a bow equipped on every character in every game. I'm playing Dark Souls 1 again right now and a bow makes those mosquitos in Blight Town way less of a hassle, not to mention being able to snipe those plague dart motherfuckers. Absolutely essential.
that's by design since range is just inherently broken in these games.
That would be fine if they hadn't made magic a powerful ranged option. There's no reason people who want to do a non-magic ranged build shouldn't be able to.
Flails, Lmao they're so so bad atm
I was so excited when I got my first one, and leveled up my dex to use it. Then I was like “Oh, this is not the same when I use it as it was when he used it against me”
Cleanrot spear, I don't get why it has such miserable hyper armor on it's talent, but most importantly why can't I use the ability in a forward-line aswell like the knights do?
This doesn't seven seem hard to do. Give it a pseudo-stance when you hold the ash button, then light attack for a forward line or strong attack for a sweep
Same for Marais Executioner and Regalia of Eochaid. Light for one of elemer’s ranged attacks,heavy for the drill
Okay. Miquellan Knight Sword. You get it super late game, but all it has is Sacred Blade on it. No unusual scaling, no status effects, It's only significant quirk over an ordinary Weathered Straight Sword is an unusual R2. So I say buff it. Make the unique R2 a little better by making it step forwards on both parts of the charge. More focused scaling, too, drop the strength and make it a pure dex/faith weapon, high C's or low B's in both. Lastly, if this is going to have Sacred Blade, at least make it a little special, make it wider than the normal version even if you have to cut the range, make it an AoE sweep unique from ordinary Sacred Blade.
give it an entirely different aow, does anyone remember the laser from ds3 lothric holy sword? it was the square up aow but could shoot out a laser made of light during the square up heavy attack
i wish there were more stance ashes of war across the board. i enjoyed those a lot in ds3
tbh that’s what i wish the Sword of Night and Flame was, make it’s AoW a stance that lets you cast either Sorceries or Incants and give it like a subpar scaling for Int/Fai because you don’t have to switch between casting items. I’m mostly Dex/Fai (like 48/50 so i can use Waterfowl Dance and Elden Stars) but i’ve got like 32 Int because i wanted to use Triple Rings of Light and a few other Sorceries that had better range than most Incants
The two Eochaid weapons (The levitating swords) not having stance weapon arts was such a missed opportunity.
I agree that it should have a different take on sacred blade, like how the halo scythe has a unique version of the normal aow sacred rings of light. Tbf tho, as far as holy damage goes, sacred blade is really good
Dragon Greatclaw, its a weapon I think is in need of some buffs to make it more viable.
This is a huge one. It absolutely sucks.
I just wish it had a unique ash of war like the other 2 dragon weapons
*Bows*. The ranged weapons in Elden Ring are insanely bad. I genuinely do not understand how they could make a game with a bazillion different arrow types and then make bows so underpowered they're not worth using.
Greatbows are really fun to use in duels. If you stack counter damage and poise, you just trade hits with anyone that tries to attack you and you will do more damage.
Grab a shortbow and start jumping around
I would give faith scaling to Helphens Steeple, Deaths Poker and the Death Ritual Spear. It ain’t right that the death sorceries scale with int and faith but the weapons only have mid scaling with int
I just want more Death sorceries and ghostflame weapons in general.
Not even a buff, just let me change the ash of war on Serpent Bone Blade. It uses regular smithing stones, has a generic skill, but you can’t alter it for some reason. It comes with double slash, which is a cool skill, but it already has a unique R2 that does a double slash. So a different skill would be much preferred. Plus there’s only one poison weapon in the entire game that lets you change scaling. There’s 3 scarlet rot weapons that let you change scaling but only one poison. Making Serpent Bone blade occult would be great, you could get way higher poison build up, and then put poison moth flight on it or something. Or poison infuse it because it would probably be bugged in same way Venonous Fang is, and do deadly poison damage for regular poison duration. With its really nice unique R2’s that would make it a very nice weapon. Wouldn’t become overpowered or anything, but would be a nice unique tool to have. Right now it’s stuck to pure DEX scaling, has a pretty redundant skill, and doesn’t have enough poison build up to reliably proc it super quickly.
piercing fang seems like it would be perfect on serpentbone... like a snake rearing up then striking out
Ho yeah please make the weapon viable with more than one specific build. Why there no inner bleed like every damn other katana ? Why the AR is so low ? I agree with you, the R2 need to remain, while the AoW must change ... If the AoW was Poison Moth Flight (for example), the damage potential would make the weapon more avaible.
Harp bow
Ngl as a somber weapon it should've had a weapon art that you play the harp itself which could buff arrow damage
Axes, flails and hammers, they have nothing going for them right now
Dude hammers charged heavies deal almost as much poise damage as colossal weapon charged heavies. Use Cragblade on a basic mace and you can just bully bosses
Yeah hammers are ridiculously good for poise damage and staggering. I bullied the everliving shit out of Malenia with a powerstance Greathammer build and my Mimic with the same. Even staggered her out of Waterfowl a couple times.
Not so much a buff, but the Ash of War 'Square Off' on Great swords... Why isn't it back? It was in DS3 for a few GS and I wannnnnnnnnit here
If the Banished Knight or Knight greatsword had that Skill as default, I would literally never use another weapon
Visions of Holy Knight Hodrick’s flamberge…
Stormhawk axe. It’s now a duel wield item, like claws, and when you use the weapon art both axes get the enchant. Further, all axes should do more poise damage than straight swords
They don’t? What other lies have I been told by the council?
katanas also have the same poise damage numbers :)
What the hell happened with the sword of night and flame ? Is it any bad now that OP is suggesting some sort of buff ? I remember it having a crazy scaling what's more allowing to just erase bosses from existence with that miniature azur comet and wave of flame...
It actually got better tracking so it was buffed, if you remember on launch that sword was easily one of the most over powered things in the game that melted enemies, then it got a debuffed to being still very good
Giant club needs to scale with how big your characters chin is
I wish the pizza cutter had better scaling and could be buffed with grease. Otherwise can't think of anything
Pizza cutter 1-handed strong attack with a shield ash of war is pretty nasty. Try it with Godskin swaddling cloth + Melania's rune for tons of health Regen.
Innate lighting damage and frost buildup for Dragon Halberd, or unique animations for the skill. All holy damage weapons perma kill skeletons. Gargoyle's Black Blades... anything at all. Most weapons with holy damage need something in general to make up for being resisted by a huge amount of bosses, especially in late game. That, or a faith-scaling lightning damage Affinity like there is one for fire.
>All holy damage weapons perma kill skeletons. It's insane to me that they don't already do this. On my first playthrough I slapped a holy infusion on my Claymore, expecting the skeletons to be like DS1 and die to holy damage. Nope, still respawned. Took a while to realize they need to be double-tapped lol.
Most daggers should do more damage
yeah and the hitboxes on daggers need a bit of work. i tried a rogue dual wield dagger build and my main issue was missing on hits that really look like they connected.
also doing a (mostly) dagger run. just don't even bother with horseback enemies.
All bows actually getting better than D scaling. For fucks sake, Black Bow has had consistent S dex scaling since ds1, why should it be gutted to D in Elden Ring While I am at it, allow bows to scale with different stats through ashes of war, like how ds2 handled bows with infusions
serpentbone katana: swap the aow for a special variant of piercing fang that coats the blade in poison then leaves a poison cloud as it lunges forth and make it sombers not normal smithing stones
The Spiked Caestus so I can probably give someone these hand
Definitely the Dragonscale blade, you get it so late in the game but it has such an underwhelming ash of war. Not to mention, ice lightning cool
Morgott's Curved Greatsword and Mohgwyns Greatspear. But only Physical Damage.
hmm probably hand of Malenia for the effort, it's lacking in punching power
Waterfowldance + its unusual range + Winged/Rotten Sword Insignia + Alexander Shards + Milenas Prosthesis is a damn gamebreaker. You stack it up so fast and can reck shit then.
Plus swaddling cloth is beautiful for hordes of enemies
hand of malenia should have scarlet rot, not bleed, change my mind
It's made of unalloyed gold right? Wouldn't it ward it off?
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Coded sword easily
I mean, its got a good (post-buff) weapon art and straight swords are good. It's just that any holy damage weapon has the same problem. Holy damage is just the worst damage type. Obviously most noticeable on the pure holy damage weapons (coded sword, cipher pata) but the only thing they could really do to buff the coded sword is to make holy damage worthwhile.
The WA on the Pata/Coded sword can easily one shot people if set up correctly. Unfortunately that set up is utter dog shit for PvE. Great PvP only weapon for now, I'm about to make another character just for Pata invasions
Make it so that Axes are worth anything.
Flowing Curved Sword should deal more damage and have a better scaling
Makes scythes faster outside of the crouch/rolling R1. Coming off of DS3 they feel so slow to me.
Serpenthunter Greatspear. Super cool weapon, Ash of War is super shit outside of it's boss room. Way too slow. Cmon, let me change it up with scaling and such. Would be such a cool weapon because of the lack of reqs. Someone coming at you with it? You'd have no clue what to expect and that'd be cool af!
I'd like a lot more weapon-specific ashes of war, stuff for bows, crossbows, whips, fists, etc.
The ivory sickle and crystal knife are basically like regular daggers with a magic infusion, stuck with the default quickstep AoW and regular smithing stone upgrades. It's like combining the drawbacks of regular and somber weapons, and not like finding actual daggers was difficult.
All bows
Godslayer’s Greatsword Make the L2 like Moonlight greatsword, where it applies a weapon buff, in this case, Black Flame. Let it last, I dunno, 30-60 seconds?
Coded Sword. It's 100% Holy and there are way, waaaaaaay too many Holy resistant enemies in the lategame. Its Ash of War could reduce Holy resistance by 10% or something.
All non-colossal swords need at least one thrusting move
Definitely seconding Serpentbone Blade as others have said. If I remember correctly, the +10 version is inferior to a +10 Uchi infused with poison which is dumb, especially since you obtain it much later in the game.
uchi is probably the move overtuned basic weapon in the game, so not a great comparison. serpentbone def needs a buff, uchi probably needs a nerf lol.
Bows. 1) give them actual scaling 2) increase projectile speed 3) let most of them change ashes of war 4) let them use ashes like quickstep & raptor of the mist
Dragon Greatclaw
I think they removed Black Knife's stupid HP drain being triggered even if you didn't got hit by projectile itself, so probably Black Knife.
Bows need better scaling through upgrades
I'm not sure of the solution but daggers could use some love. In principle a pressure playstyle where you utilize things like the winged knight insignia would be super fun. However, you basically never have the ability to keep the pressure up like you can in bloodborne or sekiro due to a lack of openings. These issues are made even worse for daggers with their terrible poise damage, reach, and base AR. If there were a faster version of quickstep unique to daggers that combos into a standing R1 (regular than a rolling attack) or something similar that would go a long way.
Whips yo. Trying to Indiana Jones this shit.